1989-01-24 .49
TOWN BOARD MEI;TFNG
JANUARY 24, 1989 .:j
7:30 P.M.
. ; 1,. .
BOARD 119E1 BE.RS PRESI NT
S•I ETIFE,N POI?GOS-SI1Pj IVISOR
MARILYN L'Cl'fPN7,A (.O1,1NCIL1vfAN
RONALD Nl(1N'TESI-COi,?W'JLAIAN
111',TTY Tk1ONAHAN-C OUNCI1,MAN
BOARI) Nil-WH1{R ABSENT'
(�I`,OI?GT? KUBOSAIZA-0'O'CJN(,1LMATy1
TOWN-iVFTOI I NI;y f f t
PAUL, DUST?I{
TOWN OFFICIALS
PAUL NAYLOB, DAVE )IATIN, TOM FLAIII;R'TY, RALPH VANDUSEN, MIKE, CHASE,,
1_
PRESS: G.1'. Post Star, Channel 13, Chnnnel: lfl, IVBZA, WENNU
PLEDGE: OF ALLF.GIANQCE LED BY COUNC,ILNIAN AJONAIIAN
RISOLUTFON TO ENTERQUEENSHURY I3C7RARD OF HEALTH
*r aw
RESOLUTION NO. 59, Tri`troduced by RAW Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Marilyn Potenza.
nESOLVEFK tlmt thKJ— ,,r.n Board rif the ' wri of C,r Tensbury hereby enter into the Queenfhury
hoard of health.
11rly ndgAed by the following vote: a
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, DIN Plontesi, Rks. Molt mn, DIN Burgos
Noes: None
..k
Absent: 11\1r. h;urosaka
QUEENSHURY BOARD OF HEALT-11-
PUBLIC HEARING - Nuisance caused by Ducks
R
NOTICE SHOWN
�'ri
SUPF;RVIS0I 11ORGOS-1 t Pere ost imlic to a liitle bit of the t pkfrotrncl on this' I'm sine
runny of you know it. °0111 just to Leep `ftrrnt,'s in perspective. t was thinVing earlier today
how to approach this ryl I said perhnps we Shot!](] call this Sornethinlr Similar to a `i'O"'n
meeting. I understand ;r,:tW early thys of the States, we had Town meelinf;s, We c€rme together
to discuss issues. II(ITl.z• to do 111,11 this (,vening. I'd Like to see us have n discussion. 19 rather
not have peol)le for w <ngninst. Usually when we have public henrings, somebody is in favor
of something and s �n,hndv is opposed to� something, but I'd rnilrer talk about the issue and
the issue tonight o?;, or•se j�4 ducks. In just n moi;•ien't I'm going to ask you to rnise your' hand
to be recognize and PC the" time, come to the m.•icrophone, state your name and address, and
state your wlintevery Aur comments, yo+rr positions, your interests, however you want to
do it. `1 wont say whether for or ngnirnsl but h14' tell us what yotl would like to say. I'd ask
you to keep relatively Iy4ef. We -tvill not put a thne limit on rtnv_ono. IVe'It stay here all night.
if we have to. I apologize to thoi jgwsts;in the hack who were scheduled n month ago, to do
a presentation at seven: 'thirty and thor gIA they would be mit of here at eight but I'm yo
you'll have to he delay,(l a little hit. II' Wint to take a coke hreak, we've got a machine
outside. We r•ould use the income. Lets l,ecp this as light hearted yet as serious as possible.
'I'ry not to rrrnke any jokes about dui ks, try not to do anything like that if we. can help it.
'They are part of our heritage. For many years the duck population .at the corner of Bay and
Fort Amherst has been the pride of the ( ormmngfIty. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of people
Of all ages have vi§ijert the duck pond on I)r, l-J4enhnrt's property. Have fed the ducks, and
have enjoyed the ducks. They've looked forward to it. We understand someone w,11; here
from (Tifton Pnrk list night nttcrnptin� to .�Ilend tonights meeting, and indicated- to
Councilman Montesi, Mat she regumNy for years have been hHnging her children here. l'rom
Clifton Park to feed thy ducks. So this is not only n local, (Aens Falls nueenshury duck
population and duck pond but something Lhnt has been apparently taking care of the region
for n long Iirne. NohoJy on the lloitrd dislikes ducks, we all love decks, brit ducks have become
a problem of sorts'and we are here tonkvir,t to try to discuss what can be done to correct the
problem.
r _
air
0
3
1 think the best thing to do at this point is just to ask you if you wish 4 S'P' oak, please raise
your-hand, you will be recognized and for tltk sake of those w.hoare hoe with other people
Who might be from the same group or w1 fever,A<ind of come together for the sake of
continuity, I would be happy, if when you finish you might say, I'd like to have so and so speak
now, and we get something that makes a lit:t le bit of snse out of this.
I)R. ROOF,? LONGO, �9 Pershing Road-I'nr for the ducks actually. For years I've fed the
ducks, enjoyed them. I +rridorstand the potential health concerns but nobodv wades in I)r.
Lisenhturt's pond, noboc:v i.; drinkinh� the water. I honestly don't see what the issue is. 1'also
think that duel:~, birds nr tlerwral ept hut;, sir,rd given ,tire potential inarshy area there, I would
suspect 'iltat the duck, n,r.t+salty serve :.ou3i ")osiliVe environmental- tlA ctio s. And should
you reprove them, that quite possible that the people that live around there, including the
nice new houses across the' ,street, find tl'temselves having a substantially more mosquitoes
arrd other things comf moftier, xVilich would obviously detract from the comfort of their
new homes. Personally 1think that it adds to the area. I'm one of the people, when we rrirlved
up, we lived in Saratoga, the ducks and the (ether aspects of Glens Falls make it an extremely
positive and pleasant place to live. I thinl, we'd be much the worst if something were to happen.
Also, F know people say that it is a nuisance in terms of the road but you know there is other
roads that you can take. You don't have to r;o by Dr. Eisenhart's pond in order to get over
the, main drag there. You can go down one Mock. I personally happen to like the idea that
somebody may have to drive a little bit slower %,hen they happen to be traversing because
like anybody else that happens to be a parent. I don't want tire tracks;: on my kid. That is
about what i had to say.
I)R. JOE, GIAC"ORBIE, Pershing Road, nue risbury-1 happen to be the Chairman of Glens balls
Chapter, Water Fowl USA. Water Fowl 1.1SA is a nonprofit national organization based in
I?dgefield, Sornrth Carolina: MY initial involvement in this really was of my own initiative.
I approach Mr. Etorgos and Mrs. Kathe. abort possible cooperation between the Glens Falls
t 'hapt:er of Water Fowl USA and the 'Town of nueensbury pertaining to the development of
large lands, wetlands which are owned by the Town. We were more or less proposing that
our organization would present and construct and,place the boxes, and really all we needed
was the habitat to end the agreement. I was requested to see if on behalf of the local chapter
and tine national organization investigate basically What could be done, about the problem.
I therefore have spent° €bout I'd say minimum twenty hours or so over the last two weeks
on the telephone, talking to various authorities throughout the Country and throughout New
York Mate. I'd like to compliment first of all Bob Infurman who is the Region 5 Wildlife
Manager, Erwin Koechlein who is the in DEC" at the Warrensburg Substation and also Brian
Swift who is with DEC, he is a water fowl biologist. Not being a professional in the field,
my training is in the field of psychology, not water fowl ecology or whatever may be the
case. What I've attempted to do is reviekv and summarize what I have found as a resu it of
my conversations. This is accepting the fact, and again this is a major assumption, that this
is indeed a problem which is creating some degree,%shall I say, uncertainty, with the neighbors
i n the area. Obviously the question of rats in the'area, you know, is a real threat. My own
Personal non professional review of the data indicates very simply that the action that was
taken I believe with the ordinance, a non feeding ordinance which was passed I believe in
June, was the correct option as far as initial option for removing the ducks. The unfortunate
aspect about this, is that obviously, if the ducks or the food is not available in Dr. Eisenhart's
pond, being like anyone else, they are going to go where they can get food. They have learned,
that is a learned behavior pattern, very similar to people, that wherever a free meal is available
they will stay there and they will tend to stay there as long as possible. Each and everyone
of us would do the same thing. The lack of feed obviously has caused them, and perhaps more
aggressively, in neighbors lawns, perhaps at a local food store, running around in the parking
lot being fed by people shopping at. that store, okay which is only confounding the problem.
My review of the data very simply is that what you have to try to do if you want to solve
the problem, is deny food, deny access of the porid to tfie''ducks in.the future. Apparently
the consensus is, that this will not be a problem that will be solved rapidly. That the ducks,
if you ar-e looking At this, will be a gradual improvement as far as the decrease in ducks.
You are going to have Some ducks that are going to return there regardless to what options
are taken. We have, and a matter of fact I spoke with Mr. Borgos and Mrs. Kathe about the
potential for entrapment and transport proOrnrn. The consensus that I have gotten is that,
number one, this would -be an absolutely terrible time to try to trap and transport ducks that
are there. The weather conditions apparently, clucks as well as other animals have to expend
a tremendous amount of enorgy to survive it this time. Obviously they do have food available
they have protection available in that pond. Maybe people, several people ;that I have spoken
to, simply said that ti-p transport at this HIT W_ of year would be inhumane and would
result in a rather signiiic an't mortality as Far as the ducks are concerned. This is confounded
by the fact that there sere inferred ducks in the pond, ducks that 1 don't _know if they can fly
but obviously they are not totally heal.tlry in a sense. If a trap and transport program is
undertaken the recomnr+.�ndations are to do to this during the summer and perhaps during
Alay or <July, Tvlay threu�;h July. The trap and transport program is also apparently going to
he difficult because in ordc,- to get the ducks in one location you have to start re-feeding
the ducks. And it is aLo not a one shot deal, that it will take several days or perhaps a week
or so, to
51
be able to capture the ducks and to remove them to another location where feed and
protectionis available. There is also the potential problem of the homing behavior and that
is the ducks are transported to another location there is a distinct possibility that the ducks
may indeed return to the locale. Basically our recommendation as far, as a organization,
being Water Fowl USA, is that we simply tried to take it in a,most humane manner which
will result in the lowest mortality, and that is very simply to deprive the ducks of the pond,
via various techniques including netting, continue the lack of feeding and more or less, bare
with it. I'd also like to say, I would like to offer the help of our local as well as our national
organization for whatever option Queensbury chooses. Thank You.
CLARENCE KENNISON, Town of Moreau-I have read the newspapers about this problem
and the suggestion I have is, granted don't feed the ducks, if the food is not there they wont
eat, okay. The other suggestion, if you trap them, you've got to be licensed, okay. If you
shoot them out of season, you're going to get a fine, they are federally protected birds. The
suggestion I have is spend the money on the crack corn, but before you feed the ducks the
crack corn, have a water fowl biologist, soak the corn in a low grade tranquilizer. If you
can tranquilize the ducks, move them, get them out of there, it might alleviate the problem.
Moving them now would not hurt them because you have ducks up north that move everyday
back and forth from places to places. If you move them up north, just like the state did with
the lynx, they can spend six hundred and some odd dollars on lynx, but can the state get involved
with these ducks for the Town of Queensbury....
PHYLLIS SHUMAN, President for Saratoga County Animal Welfare League-A volunteer
organization which is the SPCA for Saratoga County. I'm also a New York State Peace Officer
who investigates animal abuse cases, arresting those persons who abuse and or abandoned
animals, both domestic and farm. For the fifteen years that I have been in the league I have
investigated many, many cases in Glens Falls and surrounding areas. I'm here tonight to speak
out on the duck issue that has received publicity of late. I visited and have fed the ducks,
hundreds and perhaps thousands of adults and children have also visited, fed the ducks over
the years, all have delighted in watching them. Since signs were posted recently forbidding
the feeding of the ducks, area supermarket parking lots have been inundated with the birds
seeking food. It is not fair to the shoppers and not fair to the ducks. Compassionate persons
have been supplying bread to the starving creatures, but the ducks need grain and corn in
their diet. These are not river or ocean ducks, but pond ducks and pond ducks have a different
diet. In speaking with people I have learned that raw sewage is being dumped into one of
the tributaries that feeds the pond. Why isn't this problem being addressed? Surely the Board
and concerned citizens can meet and decide on a valuable and humane solution that would
satisfy the Board, the citizenry and above all, satisfy and benefit our feathered friends. Thank
you.
ATTORNEY JEFFRY CANALE-I represent Dr. Charles Eisenhart whose property the ducks
have been coming to, to be fed and to float around in the pond for many, many, years, longer
than I think there has been a Town of Queensbury. Dr. Eisenhart as you all well know, has
been a resident of this area for many years. Has been feeding those ducks and allowing others
to feed those ducks for more than some twenty years now. Dr. Eisenhart also served as the
president of the local college, Adirondack Community College for more than seventeen years
and was a member of this very Board for two terms. Dr. Eisenhart not only feeds the ducks
himself and has fed the ducks, but has allowed the children of the community, Queensbury,
Glens Falls, other communities to come with their parents and to feed bread and popcorn
and what not to the ducks as an opportunity for them, little children, for the first time in
their lives see wildlife birds. I'm here to respond to what I believe to be four specific areas
that have been put forth it seems of concern with respect to the ducks. They are the water
quality that has been brought up, the fact that there has been ducks on the lawns in the
neighboring properties, the issue of rats and lastly the issue of traffic. The water quality
issue seems to be the one that the Town, and I'm referring specifically to a letter that the
Town Attorney, Mr. Paul Dusek wrote to my client, Dr. Eisenhart, on October 6th, 1988.
A three page letter that basically says that the jest of the Town's position is that the water
quality poses a health hazard based upon samples taken by Mr. Dan Olson and Dr. Robert
Evans, the local Health Officer. The other three issues have been raised in the media and
by others and specifically in the petition that started this inquiry. So I will address those.
But with respect to the water quality, it appears through the correspondence and through
the tests that have been taken that it is Dr. Evans position that the water is unsafe. As a
standard he refers to and the Town keeps referring to water quality standard set forth in
the sanitary code. Those standards which we've heard so much about this summer in terms
of the bathing areas in Lake George and seagulls and what not, apply specifically and only
to bathing areas. The regulations in sub part 6-2 defines a bathing place as .a place together
with a buildings and appurtenances in the water and the land use in connection there with,
that a pond, lake, stream or other body of fresh or salt water which is used for bathing or
swimming with the expressed or implied permission or consent of the owner where lessee
of the premises, or which is operated for a fee or any other consideration which is openly
advertised as a place for bathing or swimming. Now there never has been nor is there now
or nor will there probably ever be any swimming in that pond. The pond is only eight inches
deep. It is all muck throughout the pond. There is no swimming that I know of allowed by
Property owners, for a fee or otherwise in the adjacent
5
inlet and outlets stream of Halfway Brook. So we are not dealing with I don't believe here
with the sanitary code, as it is intended, to apply to bathing areas. We are dealing with a
private land owner's pond. So I think that the water quality issue has been blown out of
proportion and is inapplicable. Even so the statue, or the sanitary code when it speaks of
levels of coliform, and fecal coliform, indicates that there has to be five samples taken over
a thirty day period. The samples taken that my client has been provided with, are not five
samples within thirty days. The samples have been taken in November of 1986, one of June
of 88, one in September of 88 and one in October of 88. So at the most, at some of the sites,
four samples taken over a period of two years. Not the five samples that are required to
be taken over a period of thirty days. So even if we were to assume that, which I have pointed
out, isn't the case, that the sanitary code does apply, the samples weren't taken properly.
The samples that were taken, are very questionable. I'd like to go through them with you.
First of all, there are seven sites that were samples. They have to do with the site near
Webster Avenue, the site near Fort Amherst Road, an inlet site at the pond at Fort Amherst
Road, a site right directly in the pond, a site at Halfway Brook outside the pond, and a site �-
where Halfway Brook crosses Quaker Road, and the seventh site was at the Girl Scout Camp
down near Meadowbrook Road. The tests are questionable. The first question that I have
specifically is, on November 6th, 1986, the Town of Queensbury took a sample at site number
three which would be the inlet where the brook comes into the pond at the inlet site. The
chemist, Mr. VanBuren found total coliform levels of 11,960 per 100 billiliters and fecal
coliform of 4,520 per 100 milliliters. If those samples were taken as part of five samples
over thirty days, it would be unacceptable if we are talking about a bathing area. However
in his report he states that these results indicate that the water was of a satisfactory sanitary
quality when the sample was collected. Same thing applies with respect to the outlet, same
date, the outlet of the pond. This is the same chemist who on September 26, 1988 took a
sample or analyzed samples of 19,800 total and 2,500 parts per 100 milliliters of fecal coliform
and said that they were unacceptable, which are lower levels. The only area where there
could possibly be any bathing, would be the girl scout camp. There were three tests taken
at that site, site number seven. One was on June 9, 1988 by the Rensselaer Fresh Water
Institute. That showed a total coliform level of 10,700 per 100 milliliters and fecal coliform
of 1,510 which would be unacceptable if it were part of five tests taken over a thirty day
period. However on June 21, 1988 the Bolton Laboratories did an analysis, took a sample
from the same location and it showed 940 parts per 100 and 340 parts for fecal which is
acceptable, well within acceptable limits. And then once again on October 3, 1988 Bolton
repeated its sampling of the same area and found a total coliform level of 1970 and fecal
of 470 which is once again is acceptable even under the sanitary code. I don't know how to
explain the discrepancies between, with respect to the girl scout location between the Bolton
Lab test, which were acceptable and the Rensselaer, which was unacceptable, which was
taken only twelve days before the first Bolton test. However the last two Bolton lab tests
in June and in October showed that there is absolutely no danger or no violation of the sanitary
code. Even at the girl scout camp which is the only place where there could be expected
to be any swimming, near the pond. So it appears that there is no hazard to the girl scout
camp, which is the only swimming area around. I don't believe that we've heard or that Dr.
Evans has pointed out to us any cases of illness at the girl scout camp, that are traceable
to the pond or the ducks. Moving onto the ducks on the lawn issue. The petition that was
filed with local health officer contains twenty-five names. Out of the twenty-five names,
twenty-three of these individuals reside in the City of Glens Falls. Two people live in
Queensbury and one of those two live in the Broad Acres section of Queensbury. So out of
twenty-five people who complained and signed this petition, one person is a neighbor of Dr.
Eisenharts. Now the ducks have been coming in comparatively or relatively comparable
numbers for twenty-seven years and this is the first time we've heard an issue being made
of the ducks walking on people's lawns. The claim is that this is a nuisance to those who live
there. Its granted that this Board as the Board of Health has the authority to suppress
nuisances, if in fact a nuisance does exist. We recognize that. Dr. Eisenhart recognizes that.
I'm sure everybody would agree with that. So really I guess the question becomes, is this
a nuisance. I think in analyzing whether or any particular activity is a nuisance, I think we
have to look at its reasonableness. I think we have to look at its effect on those that around
it. We have to look at its benefits, also if it has any to the community. Because I'm sure
that we all can agree that if you live next to a factory, such as Finch Pruyn and the smokes
coming out, and you can't sit on your backyard to have a cook out because of the smoke, that
you would probably say that that is a nuisance. However the community in general benefits
so much from having 'a factory that certainly nobody is going to go in and close down the
factory because a little smoke gets out. Because its benefits to the community out weigh
whatever inconveniences it causes to a few members of the community. This pond does have
benefits to the community. The ducks have benefits to this community. I myself was taken
there by my parents when I was a young boy and was allowed to feed the ducks, and I'll never
forget that. I'm sure there are alot of adults who were in that similar position, who now would
like to take there children there to feed the ducks. it does have benefit to the community
and if you weigh it against the small inconvenience it has to those around it, I think you would
be hard pressed to in your heart to say this is a nuisance. With respect to the rats. There
is no study investigation that we've been provided with that clearly show that there are more
rats in this location than anywhere else in the Town. Foreinstance, at or near any either
of the two dumps in the town, once again it is a question of you are not going to shut the
dumps down because
53
there are a few rats because it serves a valuable purpose to the community we do our best
to control them the numbers of rats, I do not know if we can say that they are a direct result
of the number of ducks and I do not know as if there has been any injury or illness to anyone's
health or safety that can be traceable to rats in that area. With respect, to the traffic issue,
I do not believe that there has been any complaints about the traffic, formal complaints filed
with the Board, petitions speak solely with regard to the rat issue and Dr. Evans, through
Mr. Dusek has indicated that he is concerned about the water quality and I am not really
sure whether there has been any study to determine whether there has been any traffic hazards
there as a result of the rats, or the ducks being there rather, however the motorist and the
ducks in this community have been rooming that part of the town for many years, without
serious injury to life, limb or safety. I guess lastly assuming that we say the ducks are a
nuisance and this Board concludes that Queensbury just doesn't need a place for little kids
to feed ducks then the question is if we pass an order prohibiting the feeding of ducks, is
that going to achieve your objective in reducing the duck population? Dr. Eisenhart is an
expert on this issue and there are many experts that can be consulted that I believe will concur
with him and tell you that these ducks have been coming here for a millennium and not as
a result of Dr. Eisenhart feeding them corn or little boys and girls feeding them popcorn.
They come here it is part of their nature habitat it is part of their migration route they come
here for environmental reasons and things that have to do with being a duck I guess. I do
not think they will tell you, I am sure they will tell you, that stopping their feeding is not
going to effect their numbers and will not accomplish what you are seeking to accomplish.
I would hope that the Board would find that it is not a health hazard with respect to the issue
of the water quality, because nobody swims there, that it is not a nuisance in terms of the
rats or the ducks walking on people's lawn because it does have a benefit to this community
and we call on, and I am sure there are a lot of us that would like to see it continue.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Recognized Dr. Evans, please state your name and address.
DR. ROBERT EVANS-My name is Dr. Robert Evans and I am the Public Health Officer for
the Town of Qlueensbury. I am here tonight and I do not like ducks and I do not dislike ducks,
in otherwords I have no feeling one way or the other, what I do not like is phone calls from
Price Chopper, neighbors and the like and that is my responsibility as a Public Health Officer
to take these calls. Since I have been public health officer since the end of 1985 through
1986 we have as Mr. Canale as reasonably pointed out multiple studies on the coliform counts
on the pond inlet, the outlet all the way down to the Girl Scout Camp. The reason that we
elected to post the pond is there is no doubt from the documentation that the water is grossly
polluted from a coliform count of 10,000 or so from the inlet to 40,000+ coliform count at
the outlet this does tend to clear down the stream bed at the outlet and that was well pointed
out by Mr. Canale. Concerns however, and the reasons that we posted this, the counts are
so high that should someone wander into that water there are definitely concerns in regard
to infection, health hazard to be in that water, if there are children in that area, the
neighboring areas used to be fields now there are three brand new homes in that area with
young children and we posted it not only to limit feeding but also an outcourse to warn people
of the fact that wandering in this water is certainly not good for your health. My concern
also too is the fact the complaints that I get not only related to rats, as Air. Canale pointed
out but also the fact that with the number of ducks in the area, the nuisance factor has been
a major concern. As a public health officer I've taken many if you will, nuisance calls. Ducks
eating my lawns, ducks pooping on my lawn, children playing in the defecation, let alone traffic
type problems, let alone Price Chopper with all the problems they have with ducks at their
particular parking lot. The duck numbers have been increasing, the concerns and the nuisance
calls that I have had have been great. I have to deal with these calls and I think the neighbors
have legitimate concerns in regards to the nuisance and problems. We as a Town and a Town
Health Board have definite concerns should someone wonder into this water. It is grossly
polluted. The numbers stated by Mr. Canale are the only numbers available. Bathing beaches
if you will and this is certainly not a bathing beach but it is a health hazard with such high
coliform counts should anyone be found or wading in that water. So my concern as a health
officer the number of calls that I've received over the last two to three years in regards to
the duck pond, it is a problem that is to a certain degree I think more out of control. I certainly
have had more calls in regards to the duck problem and the large number of ducks, the
relationship not necessarily the ducks in Dr. Eisenhart's property but the ducks in the
neighboring roads and the neighboring property owners. The data I could go through with
you, I know we have oodles and mounds of it, papers and correspondences between myself,
Dr. Eisenhart and many of the homeowners, as well as phone calls, I don't think that is necessary
tonight. But again as the public health officer my concern is in fielding all these calls, within
an increase number of these calls through the years, that is a concern I think that we have
as a Town and Town Health Board.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Before you leave, the attorney for Dr. Eisenhart did read some numbers
into the record. I just want to check with our attorney to see if he would like you to read
any numbers of any sort.
DR. EVANS-If I might, our expert if you will is Dan Olson. He has been doing alot of our
54 -
sampling. Dan if you wouldn't mind, I might call him forward, he has been doing alot of the
sampling and can comment on some of the numbers that we have.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay but also before you sit down. Do you have any recommendations
to make to this Board? Because at some point we're going to have to make a decision. It
may not be tonight but we want to have it on record.
DR. EVANS-I think that the duck numbers have got to the point where they are definitely
are a nuisance, based on the number of calls I've received. I in previously recommendations
have recommended that, one, that the ducks not be fed. It has become more than wild ducks
there, now ducks that are residents if you will and increasing certainly in numbers. With
feeding the ducks over the years we now have rats associated with it and with the volumes
of ducks and their defecation. My recommendation would be not to feed the ducks, not only
people coming to visit but also Dr. Eisenhart himself. My second concerns have been to actually
other than the signs, post the pond, is actually perhaps fence the pond. At that point we
could possibly keep it in, the ducks can fly over this, we're not causing any harm to the ducks
and perhaps we can limit some of the problems we have with the road ways and the neighbors.
I think there are more drastic things such as moving the ducks which might be a
recommendation at a later point in time. I don't think this is necessary now. I don't think
we have any short term answers for this, I think this is going to be a long term solution. I
think we have to make some changes, try to attempt to limit the ducks and see if we can
not change their breeding patterns which have really, do to the nature of the neighborhood
now with more residents there with younger people and with larger number of ducks, that
nuisance problem needs to be reduced. So those would be my recommendations.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dr. Evans, I just have one question for you. I know that the first
study that was done, the very first thing that Ralph VanDusen had done, when he got the
figures, I purposely asked him, how could I relate to what that count was. If it was 10,000,
how does that relate, give me something to relate to and what Ralph had done, was said well
if you were looking as a swimming hole you couldn't have more than 250 fecal count. If you
were looking at it as a drinking water, you couldn't have any.
DR. EVANS-Those are correct. We're talking in numbers, to give you an idea, total coliform
counts around 45,000 at the outlet of the pond. That varies from time to time in sampling
and techniques etcetera. But these are unbelievable numbers of coliform. The strep coliform
counts are well documented to be definitely increasing in the pond. The inlets are much less
than the outlets. The fecal streps are related to warm blooded animal excrement and there
is no doubt these are due to duck excrement. We know that we've actually picked up some
other problems in sewer leaks which we're eluded to but these are minimal compared to the -�
tremendous number of total coliform and fecal strep counts at the outlet of the pond. To
give you an idea, as you mentioned no coliform counts are acceptable for drinking water,
200 count or less is acceptable for bathing and if we have one number greater than some
of the numbers that we have, we don't need five readings based upon the Department of Health,
we need one reading. We've had readings well into the thousands and the water is grossly
polluted, there is no doubt about it. It does clear down stream but it is a hazard in itself
should anyone actually even wade into the water.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Two more questions. Our attorney has had to leave to go to the
meeting next door, we're having a very busy night. He has asked me to ask you two questions.
How about the sewage that is supposedly, we've had reports of sewage entering the stream,
upstream. What is the situation as far as that is concerned relative to the total counts your
finding in the pond?
DR. EVANS-Very minimal. We've well documented that we do have other leaks above and
below the pond that we've picked up which we've seen bumps in some of the counts as we
go down stream and there are certainlybumps up stream in terms of the counts. But these
are very minimal. We are seeing a few thousand increases in the counts at those points but
we see ten fold at the inlet and the outlet of the pond.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is it your conclusion then specifically that the ducks are causing the
pollution in the pond?
DR. EVANS-That is correct.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-One other comment too. That I was aware of those pumps that
you talk about in sewage and that is an extremely high water table, up until this year which
is now, that is a sewer district and most of the homes that might have had, in a high water
table bad leaching fields, are now on a community sewer district so that some of those bumps
have been eliminated. I think if you do that testing again you will find that because we do
have to do an awful lot of de-watering to put the pipes in the ground.
55
DR. EVANS-We feel too, septic effluent with high water tables and we felt that with the
sewer coming in that the problem would be 22. I'm sure they'd be lower. The bottom line
is that the counts are so high in the pond itself that the bumps we were seeing were almost
insignificant.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you very much. You've indicated that Mr. Olson was here.
Dan would you identify yourself for the record please.
DANIAL OLSON, Carlton Drive, Rueensbury-Do you want me to answer some questions for
you?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Dr. Evans indicated that you were the expert and had some numbers.
So if you would like to read some numbers and everyone would have an equal opportunity.
So lets do what we can do.
MR. OLSON-Dr. Evans stated the numbers as they are put out in a pro share that the numbers
are taken from the State Health Department and those are the numbers in the areas that
we use in determining that the water was of a polluted situation or contaminated state and
pose a potential health hazard. A letter that I wrote, the memo that I sent to you Steve and
Town Board members dated September 28th, 1988 and they are based on samples that were
done September 26th, the latest samples were done. I did take these samples, I took all the
samples. The man who spoke before us, representing Dr. Eisenhart, spoke of some sampling
that was done in 1986. Those were tests that the Qlueensbury Water Department lab, because
the Fresh Water Institute at that time couldn't handle this, the sampling program at that
time and they weren't done for drinking water standards. We weren't looking for standards
for drinking water, as you would for your own private well. We were really looking for the
fecal counts in there or the totals. So they weren't done to say they were safe for drinking
purposes. But Dr. Evans has stated and pointed out that the sampling that was done again
in September and October those numbers were well above the numbers that were referred
to, the maximum allowable levels, in terms what is used for contact recreation, that does
not mean just swimming in the water but playing in the water. If you have one sample 5,000
on total or a sample of 1,000 fecal that is enough to post that area. The average of the means
would be 200 on a fecal over a series of five samples or 2400 on the totals for five samples
which can be done on the same day. There is nothing that says you have to do it over a period
of five days or a month or any great period of time. When I did receive these samples results
I did touch base, I contacted the local office of the State Health Dept. in Glens Falls and
told them over the phone what the results were and told them what the situation was and
if they, what their feeling was and they conferred with me and agreed that we had a potential
problem, that someone, as the Doctor pointed out, could, if they got the water on their skin
or there was a scratch on their body they could come down with a rash, or if the children
got some of the water from the animals into their body they possibly could come down with
a disease or sickness. That is basically what we came up to. Yes, Sir.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dan, I also, at one point when you were involved with those studies,
I asked Don Holtz, from the City Sewer Dept. to do a couple of checks and they have done
them twice and they have documented them, they have a sewer pump station on Webster
Avenue, that I had some concerns that these counts were so high that there may have been
a problem there and Don had confirmed that on both tests there was no leakage coming from
any of the pipes or the station there. That made me feel a lot better but it did not solve
the problem. We have gone in as far as the City pump station, sewer pump station to check
that.
MR. DANIEL OLSON-I think you had that sample done sometime after 9-26 when I had the
last sampling down there because we did pick up some sewage coming in, up stream of the
pond through that stream area that you are referring to. I haven't re-sampled it since that
date but I know the City did say that they had re-sampled it and had taken care of some
problems that they had in there.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are there any other questions from the Board while Mr. Olson is here?
If not, thank you very much. I would like to hear everybody once before we start to repeat.
Mr. Morton, you have raised your hand.
MR. BILL MORTON-I represent the Queensbury Citizens Advisory Committee on Environmental
Issues. I have a few observations and recommendations that I would like to make. Over the
past twenty to twenty-five years, I have personally witness a dramatic increase on the water
fowl population at the Ft. Amherst Pond, Glen Lake and Lake George, The following seems
apparent. The high water fowl concentration is being artificially sustained by feeding. I
cannot say with complete certainty that the high degree of probability that winter populations
at the Ft. Amherst Pond is a summer nesting population, is a large part of the summer nesting
population on Glen Lake and Lake George: One can only confirm this through a banding or
migration in migration studies. But at all three locations, water fowl are becoming or have
56
become nuisance. They have become a nuisance in terms of potential threat to health, both
a threat to the health of the water fowl population itself, and public health. Then there is
also a water quality degradation factor. First lets look at the health factor. I'd like to quote
from a statement, brochure actually, prepared by the US Fish and Wildlife Service titled
'Caution, feeding Water Fowl maybe harmful'. Regular feeding, on the front cover, can cause
dependency on people for food, bird/people conflicts, spread of disease, all of the above.
In quoting from this handout, food handouts often result in large numbers of birds competing
for very limited food supplies in small concentrated areas, such as the pond on Fort Amherst
Road. Such crowding and competition for food combined with the stresses of less nutritious
food and harsh weather increases the susceptibility to life threatening diseases such as avian
cholera, duck plague and avian botulism. Once established, water fowl population, a
concentration population such as we might find in the pond at Fort Amherst Road, these
diseases can spread like wild fire and kill off large numbers of water fowl. On the human
health side, water fowl carry parasites. Most common being, I'm going to have to be very
careful when I say this one, if I can get it all out, ....(parasitic worm) is a worm having a the
following life cycle; the worm 'is in the blood stream of the duck, it passes into the intestinal
wall, into the feces where eggs are laid and then the eggs emerge as what is called, mericitia,
and these are taken up by snails, in a pond or lake and from the snails, thousands of secaria
hatch, thousands per snail. Now it is the secaria that go to other birds, other ducks and what
they do is burrow through the skin into the duck, these are small parasites, they burrow into
the skin to the duck and go into the blood stream again and develop into the worm. However
there is a clitch in this. They are not only attracted to ducks. Sercay can also enter humans
by burrowing into the skin. They burrow just under the skin and cause an irritant that
sometimes quite painful and this is called swimmer's itch. This condition has been reported
in Lake George and Glen Lake. The problem is prevalent where water fowl populations are
high. Other problems related to water fowl and bacteria from water fowl are salamanella,
which when ingested can contribute by humans, can contribute to gastro intestinal problems.
In terms of the water quality issue, it appears that there may be contravention of water quality
standards in section 701.19 set forth in the State Water Quality Regulations. The stream
in question in fact the entire Halfway Brook system is class double a, it has been classified
double a by the State. It is the highest classification that can be assigned to a water body.
The standard for class double a for coliform for class double a water is as follow; the monthly
meeting coliform value for 100 milliliters a sample shall not exceed 50 from the minimum
five examinations provided that not more than twenty percent of the samples shall exceed
a coliform value of 240 per 100 milliliters of sample. I do have the report from the Bolton
Laboratory, Rensselaer Fresh Water Institute, the data was collected October 3rd, 88, several
different sampling stations. This is the only, I only have samples taken for one day, the total
coliform as you recall from the standard, is in the neighborhood of 50 to 240, as sited in the
standard, however this report shows total coliform counts ranging anywhere from 15,600
to over 27,000. As was mentioned before some of this, undoubtedly from human sources,
but we also have to think that slot of this is from the water fowl population at the Fort
Amherst pond. So regardless of whether people swim in this body of water or downstream
there is never the less, a contravention of State Water Quality Standards in the pond. The
last thing I would like to point out, is that if these ducks are part of the nesting population
that we find high nesting population of water fowl that is also on Lake George and Glen Lake,
that is in part artificially, or sustain through artificially feeding, they can not help but
contribute to water quality problem on these lakes in the form of unification or the accelerating
aging process. That is increasing or contributing to noxious algal blooms, loss of water clarity,
depletion of oxygen, particularly in the deeper, a greater depths in both lakes which contributes
to the loss of fisheries habitat and also the nutrients that pass through, birds would tend to
increase nuisance to quatic vegetation. Just for a couple of recommendations. We would
recommend that feeding be discontinued at the Fort Amherst pond also on Glen Lake and
Lake George. There is no short term solution. The water fowl are going to continue to stay
around but over time with discontinued feeding, they'll be weaned away from this source
of food and they will become wild animals once again which they formally were, or lets say
their ancestors were. I guess that is all I have at the moment. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you Bill. Recognize Mr. Brennan.
JOHN BRENNAN-I'm a Councilman for the City of Glens Falls. I'm here on behalf of a number
of residents in the third ward. The third ward, as you probably know but may be some people
don't realize, I represent the people on the south side of Fort Amherst and the people on
Webster and down right through the City of Glens Falls. The ducks have become a tremendous
nuisance to numerous residents of the City of Glens Falls, on Fort Amherst and on Webster,
McArthur, Monument. Not only to their yards but defecating where the children can't go
out and play in their yards but also the swimming pools. One of my neighbors on Arbur Drive
this summer had a duck taken into the intake, water intake of their swimming pool and into
the filter. It caused a great deal of problem to her swimming pool and filter, where she had
to hire professional help to come in and get the duck out. She just couldn't possibly do it,
it was so chewed up. It was dead obviously. This causing a problem not only to the yards
but also to the swimming pools in the area. I guess I take exception a little bit to Mr. Canale's
remarks that the petition had twenty-three of twenty-five or twenty-five of twenty-seven
residents of the City of
5'7
Glens Falls, since they were not neighbors and they were not O,ueensbury residents, he made
it sound like the City of Glens Falls was, you know fifty miles away. Where in fact we are
right across the street. Half of Fort Amherst is in the City of Glens Falls. So the problems,
if they are a nuisance to the people of the City of Glens Falls, its really Dr. Eisenhart's
neighbors. So they are his neighbors that are on that signature, they are only a block away
and on the same block. I'd like to add one other statement as far as the ducks which no one
has brought up yet. A fish and wildlife expert contacted me in regards to the matter because
I brought it up before the Glens Fails Common Council. He noted something which I've not
seen anybody bring up or even mention. Is by feeding the ducks over the years, what has
developed, in his opinion, is an inner breeding of the strain. What has happened he states
by examining the ducks, is that it is causing an inferior strain of Mallard. He feels that the
ducks are smaller and they are more sickly than regular ducks. Mother nature takes her course
where the strong breed and survive, and that is how animals survive generation after generation.
It is his, only one person's opinion, that the breeding of the ducks and the feeding over there
that has caused a weak strain and it is very bad for the Mallard population. There is a definite
nuisance, not only in people's yards and pools but also a traffic nuisance. Fort Amherst, like
I was saying, in half my ward, I know first hand, I'm been living there and driving on Fort
Amherst. I've had volumes of telephone calls that I've received from residents and they've
asked me to come here, to let you know how we feel in the City of Glens Falls. Thank you.
DEBBIE BARLOW-I live contrary to the Chronicle article, I do not live on Webster, I live
on the corner of Fort Amherst and Bay which is directly across from the duck pond. First
of all I want to say that we feel that moving to the neighborhood, my husband and I, are very
proud to be a part of the neighborhood, we are very interested in preserving the beauty of
the neighborhood for our children and for the future generations. The actions that we have
taken in the recent weeks have kept this goal in mind. The ducks and pond are no longer
a part of the beauty of the neighborhood because of the number of them. We feel that the
problem is definitely involving the health of the neighborhood and the safety of the
neighborhood. The children are increasing, because the neighborhood is changing, the property
was for sale, several families have bought the property, building on it, have built on it, we
all have children in the neighborhood. Every new house in the neighborhood there has one
or two children, six and under, so this is a concern of the local residents. The traffic hazard
has already been mentioned. In regards to the ducks I would like to stress that we are
interested in the ducks welfare. We are not specifically trying to move out of the neighborhood,
they were definitely there first, but again the number has been the problem, the several hundred
ducks that are there now and that every spring are reproducing. I have contacted the Federal
Fish and Wildlife. I would like to invite them to say a few things when I'm finished here.
Some of the papers that they have given me has indicated that by feeding the ducks again
as John just mentioned, it has by feeding them bread and corn, over a period of time weakens
there wing development. Which again encourages them to be dependent on us, which there
instinctual Mallards, if we stop feeding them, they instinctually know, over a period of time,
that they are instinctual, that they go further south, they search for food on there own. They
were not here first for people to feed them. Again I want to mention that we would like
to preserve the neighborhood. I think we are confusing the ducks in believing that we can
provide for them. We are in a way making them dependent on us. We are defeating the
purposes of appreciating them. It is nice to have our children come there, before I moved
there my kids came there and we fed them. When we built the house there and realized that
this was a serious health problem. We have sat in the window and watched the ducks. We
have watched the people stopping. We have seen the aggressiveness towards the small children.
The safety problem with the ducks. At times forcing the people to stop into the roadways
because they are so hungry and anxious for the food supply which gets back to the traffic
problem again. So I think if you genuinely care about the ducks, as I feel we do and the
neighbors do, in their best interests, they should not be fed, they should not be in the City.
They are instinctual, they will over a period of time from what information I've gathered,
they will return to the wild where they belong. I'd like to say that it has been mentioned
that this has been happening for years and years and years and I feel that even though this
has been happening for years doesn't necessarily make it okay today. Years and years ago
there weren't as many ducks. It was mentioned that there are many benefits to having the
ducks here but the only benefit that I see at this time is the children that come to feed them.
Children that come in the car or several streets away that come to feed them. I think that
the negative aspect of this far out weighs the benefits. Like John mentioned we do live in
Glens Falls, we pay taxes to both, alot of the residents are Glens Falls but we still live in
the neighborhood. We live directly across the street. So I think that gives us enough reason
to be concerned over this. As far as solutions to the problem, I'd like to invite Janet Sillings.
I haven't met you, I've talked to you on the phone. I'd like to invite Janet and Jim Forbes
to speak if you would. Just to give us an idea how the Federal Government is involved in
this and questions that you might have for them.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. If you would come forward please and introduce yourselves
for the microphone.
JAMES E. FORBES-I'm the State Director of Animal Damage Control with the US Department
58
of Agriculture. I've been invited here actually through a number of phone calls over the past
week from Debbie Barlow, also from Water Fowl USA Headquarters, as a matter of fact in
South Carolina and also from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation.
I would just like to make four points. One is, the first thing I'd like you to understand is that
the US Department of Agriculture is neither for or against these ducks. We are totally neutral
on this issue. It is up to the Town whether or not you are going to decide whether to stop
feeding the ducks, not stop feeding the ducks, get rid of the ducks, keep the ducks. We don't
want to get involved in that. We are neutral on that. United States Department of Agriculture
and Division of Animal Damage Control, is the arm of the Federal Agency, Federal Government
which deals with problems caused by birds and mammals and wildlife species. In this respect
we do alot of work with municipalities in problems such as you have here, with problems caused
by birds, for instance at airports which are hazards to aircraft and of course with problems
dealing with animal, bird and mammal depredations to agricultural crops. You are not unique
in this problem that you have with the ducks. A number of cities every year experience this
both with ducks and with geese across the United States. Ducks and geese are not the same
type of birds. They are very different, not only in the problems they cause but in the solutions
to these problems. For instance with geese, there are a number of different techniques that
can be tried and are quite frequently useful in moving geese out of areas like this. There
are fewer techniques to apply when working with the problem such as this, with ducks. The
fourth point that I would like to bring up is that if we are requested by the City, the US
Department of Agriculture Animal Damage Control Division, would be happy to work with
you to find a solution to this problem and to provide technical assistance to you in trying
to solve this problem. Other than that, I have looked at the pond this evening when I arrived
in Town, I haven't not seen the Price Chopper parking lot and so I can't really get into any
more detail than that at this time because I have not become that familiar with the problem.
As a professional wildlife biologist I'd be happy to provide you with any answers to any questions
that you might have if you do so desire. That is all.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Would you be sure to leave your business card with us?
As much as you don't want to get involved, we may request, you just offered, I think we heard
it. Once again we'd like to here from those we haven't heard from before. You've already
been up, we will come back to you again, okay. I don't want to ask you to sit down, but we'll
come back to you again.
HOLLY CHOPECKI-I live on the property on Fort Amherst that directly surrounds the pond,
across from Dr. Eisenhart. I would like to say that as far as I know, no one surrounding the
pond has signed this petition. I really can't understand how it is a problem to the people on
Monument and that area of the Town when it has never been a problem to us. We have lived
there for fifteen years, I raised my family there. We have never had any health problems,
we've always enjoyed the ducks and I hope a compromise can be reached on this. Which does
not mean that the total population will be removed because I'm hoping that maybe a decrease
in population will allow some future feeding of the ducks and continue the tradition with
the duck pond in the Town, because I feel it is a great benefit to Queensbury and Glens Falls.
NOELLE GRANGER-I'm a resident of Washington County but I grew up in Queensbury, lived
there until last year. I wonder if any kind of alternatives to removing the ducks have been
explored. I'm not a wildlife expert, I'm not a freshwater expert but could any kind of filter
be installed in the pond? Could a screen at some sort at the outlet of the pond be installed
that would help count down the coliform count? Could some sort of feeding control be instated
where by only appropriate foods would be available to the ducks, eliminating the bread and
popcorn and things that seem to be supposedly weakening their systems? As far as the quality
of the water goes, it seems to me that Dr. Eisenhart is the one who has the largest part of
the water on his property. No one that I've heard out of his family has come ill from it, he
feels comfortable with the ducks there having friends and family there, it would seem to
me that his view point would be one of the most important ones to be considered, if he feels
comfortable with it. I just wonder if some alternatives have been explored besides removing
the ducks and removing a tradition really for the Town of Queensbury. I grew up feeding
those ducks, I brought friends, nieces and nephews there. I think alot of people would hate
to see it disappear.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. That is why we are here, to look at alternatives to solve
the issue.
JOHNNY BRIWA-42 Fort Amherst next to Holly Chopecki. The ducks are a precious thing
in our neighborhood and we have to explore every avenue to maintain them. Thank you.
CARRY TRAVER-I live on 93 Fort Amherst directly across from the duck pond. I know this
is going to be a long time before we settle this whole thing. I just wanted to propose some
things that I thought could be done in the mean time. One thing that nobody has addressed
is that we have some expired ducks on the street that have been hit by cars and I...
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Currently?
59
MS. TRAVER-Not currently but over the summer in particularly. I don't know whose
responsibility it is to remove these ducks but over the summer I can think of at least three
that carcasses, that remained in the middle of the street until they were literally deteriorated
and you know piece by piece blown away. I had to explain that to a three year old. The other
thing is that the through traffic, I know that everybody has a right to pass down any road
but I feel like for some reason that our street has been picked as a short cut, a short cut for
people that are in a hurry, speeders. I just feel like some things could be done to deter these
people taking short cuts. Stop signs at the cross roads. If they knew that they'd have to stop
at every cross road maybe it wouldn't be such convenient through way. The other thing, I
don't know how I can get this done, but maybe some warning such as 'children at play', duck
crossing, another, even just a speed limit reminder, that it is a residential street, and it should
be, what thirty miles per hour and not forty, and that is what I see alot. That is why we've
got some of the dead ducks. The other thing is, I'm glad that, I strongly support the forbidding
of the feeding and if that is ever taken down, if the signs are not posted, I just want to say
the things that I witnessed: I did enjoy seeing people feeding the ducks but there are alot
of people that abuse this. I saw families get out with three, four, five loaves of bread, not
just the bread ends. These are whole loaves and they continue dropping the bread on the
area even though the ducks hadn't had time to eat the bread that was already there. This
hasn't happened recently. But this was what was happening before it was posted to forbid
the feeding. The last thing I just want to strongly support a fence around the duck pond because
of the droppings. I'm not an expert and I don't know what the health hazard is but it is a kind
of scary thing to know that your child is playing in the feces.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Mrs. Traver, just two comments. John Brennan is from the City
of Council he was supportive of this Town Board in erecting a stop sign at Fort Amherst because
we did put one on Garrison Road. That seems to have cut down the fact that you can't eye
ball that whole eight tenths of a mile. The problem is that half of Fort Amherst is in Glens
Falls, half is in Queensbury. The rest of John's ward felt based on some information from
their traffic safety review that they did not want to see a stop sign there. So we couldn't
put one up on half the block. The other point is that when we put the stop sign up on Garrison
Road prior to that, I did ask Fred Lamy, Warren County Sheriff, to do a little more intensive
radar check there. One morning, out of nine people that he stopped, five of them live on
Garrison Road. It presented a little bit of a problem for those people too because they were
in here telling us about the speeders. In any event 1 say that a little bit in jest, but I say that
to you that we have tried to address some of those concerns that you have there. Hopefully
we're making some progress and maybe this issue will give John some ammunition to go back
and look at it. Our concern was when we put the stop sign up on Garrison, would we artificially
force some traffic on Fort Amherst.
MS. TRAVER-Are you talking about the actual stop light ....
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The stop sign on North Road and Fort Amherst.
MS. TRAVER-I feel like Webster probably doesn't have as much of a problem because they
have the stop light at the end.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Webster doesn't have as much of a problem because when you get
to the end of Webster you have a rather difficult light to maneuver around with the Fire Road.
It is not a convenient short cut.
MS. TRAVER-Right, so lets make Fort Amherst not a convenient short cut. How difficult
would be to have warnings signs even, children at play? I see those but I don't know how to
get them.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-New York has some real sincere reservations about that and so
does the Town of Queensbury, Paul Naylor our Superintendent of Highways because what
that sign says in essence is that the kids are in the streets and they really are not supposed
to play in the street.
MRS. TRAVER, I'm not really even talking specifically about my children, I'm talking about
the children that come to feed the ducks. The children are forced out by aggressive ducks.
It gets to a point where there is such a large population of ducks and so many happy people
to come feed them and I know they are having a good time but they don't realize they are
in the road.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We might have to say, warning playground.
MRS. TRAVER-Well we have so many proponents of the ducks, then we all have to work
together. If they are going to be there, we need to do some of these things.
MR. BRENNAN-The stop sign on Fort Amherst will be brought up again at the next city
meeting.
so
111 RS. TRAVER-Thank you.
WALT STAMPER, June Drive-Up until the last few people who spoke as ordinary citizens
we had nothing but experts and I'm wondering where in the hell these experts have been for
the last twenty-five years. All of a sudden there is a big problem. As an individual people
can tell you that I said twenty-five, thirty years ago, that this was going to be a problem.
Because first of all the State or Federal Government says your not supposed to tame wild
animals and second of all I said one day Dr. Eisenhart isn't going to be here and what are
we going to do then. Over and beyond that have we got a concern for our landfill where there
is hundreds and hundreds of sea gulls? Are they causing a problem'?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That will probably be subject for another public hearing.
MR. STAMPER-If we are so concerned about coliform, we take our drinking water out of
the Hudson River, how many 'towns above us are putting raw sewage in the river and are we
concerned about the too?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Quite a few and yes, its being reduced and hopefully will be reduced
more.
NIR. STAMPER-1 think it is quite a problem. We've got wildlife. I have a camp up north and
I'm a fisherman and I'm going to recommend that all the fish be provided with diapers. Thank
you.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm glad we are all friends. I hope we leave here that way. I think
we will
ALAN KOECHLEIN-Senior. Wildlife Biologist Conservation Department, Region S. I'm another
one of those professionalist that come along. I'm in charge of water fowl in our Region 5.
I've been in Queensbury for the last fourteen years and its not difficult to be a wildlife biologist
and travei through the area, live in the area, and not see the problem as it begins to arise
or was in the process of occurring. It all starts with feeding a few ducks and proceeding with
ducks begin to increase, more fly in, they become attracted by the birds there and you
Progressively get more and more and if we continue, I suspect, we are going to see some rough
fluctuations in the numbers that we see now. Some years there is going to be more, some
years, less, all depending upon the migrating habits of some of the birds. In my opinion, I
think we've got three groups of birds here. The permanent residents, those that I would refer
to as short distance migrants, and those long distance migrants. The long distant migrants
are the easiest to handle because they'll flow with any action taken with the other two groups. --
Long distant migrants are those that come in the mid December on into January that are
being pushed south by freezing waters and so on. They are the ones that are truly wild, if
you have a concept of wildness here. The short distant migrants are the ones that are coming
from Lake George or coming from Glen Lake. They are the ones that are probably the bull:
of the birds. That is my guess anyway. The permanent residents are the ones that are basically
there all the time, they'll nest in the neighbors bushes, they hang right around there even
through the summer time, and they are the ones that end up being the attraction to begin
with. So any action that may be taken, and I'm neither for nor against the action. The
department has always had the policy of recommending against feeding wildlife regardless
of whether it is ducks, deer, or anything else. We do see a certain value, of course, in song
birds. But certain other wildlife species are better left alone, to fend for themselves and
to obtain natural foods as they can and that goes for ducks as well. If the objective is to
control the birds, reduce there numbers, bring them under some reasonable level, there are
some options. But to understand how these operate you need to realize that these birds have
been conditioned to behave this way, to come to this location. They need to be conditioned
not to come to this location. There are some rather silly approaches one can take as well
as some very sensible ones that are going to take some time. Any action that is proposed
and implemented is going to result in probably a long term gradual reduction. You can go
to one extreme trying to locate them some where else by feeding another flock in a different
location and that way slowly drawing them there. I would recommend against it naturally.
The approach that I might suggest, if you choose to pursue reducing the birds is, first step
would be not feeding them, second step would be to discourage them from coming back to
that particular pond. I think you are going to have to accept the fact that they are going
to be here this winter and anticipate beginning some action in the spring or summer when
You can deal with those birds that are the permanent resident. If there are other suggestions
on how to approach that, I think we all would appreciate those too. Maybe trapping and moving
those particular birds is an option that could be considered. The great bull: of the birds that
are the short distant migrants from the local lakes and so on, serve a problem. They are
conditioned behavioraly to come back to this location and they will bring their young as they
always have. Those are the birds that we need to basically train to do something else with.
Like I say, it is going to be a long drawn out process over several years of activity if we are
going to succeed. Any way to make that pond unsuitable for the birds to land there is and
there is several ways of doing that.
61
Some of the systems used over the years for other areas, are the noise makers, they don't
have to be detonations, as per say, they don't have to be done at night necessarily. I suggested
to several callers, putting a netting fabric or material over the pond. It is a small pond, there
is some heavy brush on the west side that makes it difficult to do that, but it is not out of
the question if the neighbors are willing to cut back some of that brush. Put something visible,
and it has to be highly visible for the ducks to see. It would have to be like putting a bubble
over a stadium so that ducks don't walk in as well because once you've got ducks under it
and if they flush, you don't want to end up with a problem of ducks flushing up in and getting
caught into something. It is not an easy solution, it is not necessarily the best solution. But
it needs to discourage birds from landing there. Whether even conducting the water through
a pipe going right through the center of it so that the rest of the pond is dry. It sounds like
an absurd idea but there maybe ways of doing something like that that basically dry the area
up so that birds don't land. It is an environmental setting situation that you've got to deal
with to discourage birds from coming back in there and they will, they'll come back. But
if you slowly discourage them, .they are going to change their habits and start looking else
where and there are plenty of other places around, even close by. Even the Hudson River
offers plenty of area for the ducks to land, to have water, and to have natural foods, and
end up with a slow gradual change in that behavioral pattern.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Could you tell me what the average typical life span is for the type
of ducks that we see there?
MR. KOCHLEIN-Most of them are Mallard, we do have some crosses of course and their life
span tends to average three years in an environment where there is hunting and that is basically
what we have here, I would say.
COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Mr. Kochlein, just the fact that you don't feed them, if there was
not feeding of the ducks, would that in itself help alleviate the problem?
MR. KOCHLEIN-It would help, yes, because the birds will become discouraged.
COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Okay and I know they are creatures of habit and eventually if
they fly here and they bring their young and there is no food to be fed, whether I'm talking
five years of ten years, not draining the pond or putting a fence around the pond because
I guarantee you I don't know too much about ducks but I know they didn't walk here. So if
they can fly here, they can fly over a fence. Putting a netting on the pond is a possibility
but realistic if the ducks were not fed, again it would eventually alleviate the problem, correct?
MR. KOCHLEIN-It will not eliminate it. It will reduce the number of birds but not eliminate
it because they are so conditioned.
COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Reduce to the point where it would be, it would then become
tolerable and attractive to the Town.
MR. KOCHLEIN-I don't know. I can't answer that.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you sir. Who is next?
BOB HENKE-Conservation Officer for the area. This is going to be a real short and sweet
because I'm going to refer to my learned colleague. I have dealt with wildlife problems for
a long time. Jim ...and I have captured Canadian geese on the golf courses in New York City
and ship them to Virginia and all that kind of stuff. I do not think I have any other material
to add to that otherwise, I am going to recommend to the Board that I do this from the
perspective of being the local Conservation Officer who contray to all, these other people
talk about phone calls, the very first person that they call is the conservation officer I refer
them to all you guys. ...Mine is triple and I got to tell you they are running about fifty-fifty,
so I can't help you out there, if you want to take a vote. One thing that is very disturbing
that I'm seeing happening, I'm seeing this from the perspective of urging you to, if you're
going to do something, do it quickly and get this continuing thing out of the press. Because
in the past, maybe two weeks, we have had an astronomical increase in calls complaining
about abusive sort of things going on to these birds. Not only there but on Lake George, and
this sort of thing. This is something that happens, we're used to it, more up in the Lake George
area where they are on the docks and things and the conservation officer gets the call. But
we are starting to hear, little children are down there with sling shots. Gee somebody just
drove through the Price Chopper parking lot and ran over three ducks and they tried to hit
them, and this sort of thing. I think with the press that is coming from this thing, you are
getting alot of polarization. I think it is very important for the parents in particular to point
out to the children, this is not the ducks fault, this is a people problem. We've got people
on either side of the fence and I'm not going to take a side, I think, from a Department
standpoint, these wildlife that people are trying to convert to something not wildlife but
that is neither here not there. I think that we should send a very careful message to the parents
of the community in particular with teenage sort of children, that the ducks aren't at fault
here, and lets not take it out
64
that you should not feed wild ducks, I do not feed them, I do not allow my grandchildren to
feed them at the lake, we just have to be aware of the problems that can be created and
that when we are trying to solve a problem in one area we are not multiplying the problem
in some other area.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you.
MR. CARY BARLOW-230 Bay-On the corner of Ft. Amherst and Bay. I am just wondering,
we are going to maintain this ordinance that we have which I am for 100% how are you going
to enforce it, how can you enforce it?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is part of what we have to talk about and probably conclude
that on Thursday, I hope that each of us will have time to talk with our Attorney in the next
couple of days to give him some ideas let him phrase the language that seems to accomplish
the consensus of the Board supports and at that point it may require yet another public hearing
to do this legally after talking with the Attorney it may require another public hearing but
at that time with the ordinance phrased as it might possibly come out. At that time we would
again open it up and let people agree with or object the proposed ordinance and at some time
after that have a vote and implement it. This can be done relatively quickly but looking at
thirty to forty five days or so before it can be done in legal stages. If anything is going to
be done?
MR. BARLOW-The way that it stands now and the way that it has been really anyone that
violated that ordinance there is no penalty for them to pay at all so that...
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think they would be frowned upon by the Board of Health because
the Board has ordered no feeding. I do not know that we can put them in jail at the moment.
MR. BARLOW-Lets say for instance I saw someone out my window across the road throwing
bread out flagrantly feeding the ducks are there any action that I can take as someone who
did not like that going on?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It is my understanding that the only thing that you could do at this
point is to call this office or the Sheriff's Dept. to report it but no body could be arrested
or fined or anything else at this point.
MR. BARLOW-There is no action that you could take...
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Except that you could create a record of telephone calls which would
be logged in and then we would have that.
MR. BARLOW-The actual person that is doing that act would have no recourse taken against
them.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-At this moment. If this progresses to the point where we have an
ordinance and a law on the book with fines then action would be taken.
MR. BARLOW-So at this point isn't going to be anything to discourage people who really want
to feed the ducks.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-At this moment nobody would be arrested.
MR. BARLOW-Or fined in any way.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But it would not make me happy and I do not think that members
of the Board would be happy.
MR. BARLOW-Well, I would not enjoy seeing someone get fined, doing something that they
apparently enjoy doing a lot but, the results of it is a real negative thing and I think that
it should be some kind of a fine there or at least some kind of a record or reprimand to that
person. From what I have seen in any report that I have made of something like that happening
its more or less taken as a joke by the Sheriff's Dept.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I do not think that the Sheriff's Dept. is joking about it, we have a
Deputy suffering through this in the back of the room.
MR. BARLOW-We have made calls in the past because we do not like to see it going on and
no action was taken, no patrol cars are sent, I would like to see some action taken. At least
someone to come over and talk to these people about what they are doing, supposedly there
is an ordinance against.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-If that ordinance comes on board.
65
MR. BARLOW-What is that sign there supposed to mean?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is an order, as I understand it, an order by the Board of Health
to put the sign up and 'hopefully the people will obey it.
MR. BARLOW-In other words please do not do this.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-At this moment we said don't do it. We did not put the word, please
on.
MR. BARLOW-OK, I am just being sarcastic.
G
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I understand you feeling you are right in the middle of this.
MR. BARLOW-Thank you.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you, Sir. Dr. Longo, one more here, almost got through with
calling this to a conclusion.
DR. LONGO-If you think about this, you are talking...about swimming intimately it would
seem that you could put up a sign please don't swim and please don't wade and please don't
feed the ducks.
COUNCILMAN POTENZA-It is there.
DR. LONGO is a domino effect here, problems that they are having with their lawns their
swimming pools is all the function of not feeding, because now the animals are ultimately
going out to Price Chopper and other places and essentially this is what we seem to be reaping.
It just seems simple if you say don't wade, don't swim, you have solved your health because
nobody is drinking it no, you know, a tempest in a tea pot it would seem.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We have already said it, the signs do include no fishing, no whatever
and at least one sign has been stolen maybe two have been stolen from that general area.
The Deputies arm in the back I will certainly recognize you Sir.
MR. TIM TREMBLAY-The Sheriff's Dept. at this point in time there is nothing in the book,
I would like to clarify that to everybody, there is nothing on the books that I am aware of
or that ENCON is aware of that is enforceable. I have taken a lot of calls from people and
I do agree with your concerns from my point of view there is nothing I can do at this point
until the Town Board enacts some kind of an ordinance.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Seeing no hand, there are no comments from the Board
I would like to call this to a close.
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING AS QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 8, Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza, who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Mr. Ronald Montesi:
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjournes and reopens as the
Queensbury Town Board.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
PRESENTATION
QUEENSBURY SEWER/WATER AUTHORITY
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would like to indicate first that there has been a brief basic discussion
about the possibility of creating a sewer and or water authority for the Town of Queensbury.
Recognized experts from Cowen and Company of Albany, the Town's financial advisers. Asked
them for a presentation to give the Board more detail, what an authority is, how it operates,
how it is constructed, the benefits, the disadvantages and advantages and so forth.
PRESENTATION TO THE
6�
TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
SUBJECT: Establishment of a Town Water and Sewer Authority
I. Introduction - Roy J. McDonald
A. Impact of Federal and State Budget Policies
II. Cowen & Company - Robert J. Murphy
A. Since 1918, Committed to Quality
B. Cowen's professional staff have been involved with financial i
transactions that have included all levels of New York State -"
governmental units.
IlI. Advantages of a Town Water and Sewer Authority
A. Financial Advantages of an Authority - Robert J. Murphy
1. Debt Limit, if applicable
2. Operational Efficiency
3. Structural Advantages
4. Negotiated Issuance
5. Name Recognition
B. Legal and Structural Advantages of an Authority - Joel H. Moser
IV. Conclusion - Roy J. McDonald
PRESENTATION
LAW AND ORDINANCE CODIFICATION SERVICES
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Noted that this is a presentation by request of Town Attorney Dusek.
BRUCE CADMAN, Representative for General Code Publishers Corp.-(presented sample
code book to Board Members and literature) Noted that this is the end result from a process 'V
that takes about a year. Located in Rochester and working with about fourteen hundred
communities throughout the Northeast, four hundred fifty in New York State.
OUR PROPOSAL PROVIDES SPECIFICALLY FOR THE FOLLOWING SERVICES:
Copies of legislation, Conference
Editing, Analysis, Recommendations
Editorial Conference, Reports, Revisions
Final Editing
(1) A table of Contents listing all chapter and articles included in the code.
(2) Descriptive title headings for each chapter and section.
(3) Historical notations indicating the source and date of adoption of each enactment.
(4) Cross-references and editor's notes as required keyed to the chapter and section numbering
system for the use in locating specific material and related material within the code.
(5) The manuscript for publication by editing and copyrighting the text to correct
grammatical and typographical errors such as spelling and capitalization. The legal effect
or meaning of the text is not altered.
Publication
Indexing and Cross-Referencing
Pamphlets
Disposition List
Code Adoption
Loose-Leaf Supplement Service
Distribution of Code Books and Supplements
Costs
DISCUSSION HELD ON PROPOSAL
OPEN FORUM
10:45 P.M.
PLINEY TUCKER-Questioned the purchase of the Ladder Fire Truck at Queensbury Central
6'7
Fire Department. Is there any financial burden to the taxpayers? Who will control the truck?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It will be fully paid for, owned and operated by Queensbury Central
with no debt to the Town of Queensbury. Noted that the Great Escape donated the monies,
$150,000 to Queensbury Central to purchase the truck.
MR. TUCKER-Do you have the figures on what it cost the tax payers to handle the Round
Pond issue?
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I don't think it has been added up yet but it was somewhere around
ten thousand between the appraiser's fee, the cost of the election. If you include the whole
thing, the legal battle, the court of appeals, we're probably in the twenty, twenty-five thousand
dollar range, perhaps more.
MR. TUCKER-Questioned the situation of Mr. Harris's Garage.
COUNSEL DUSEK-I don't want to get into discussion of the case itself, but as far as the
procedural aspects, there was a trial in Supreme Court before Judge Dier, the trial concluded
and the Judge requested that the lawyers submit various documentation to him. Memorandum
of Law, statements of fact in conclusions, and the Judge after receiving those, the Judge
will ultimately make a decision. Not sure when we will receive the decision.
MR. TUCKER-Will it be public record?
COUNSEL DUSEK-Yes, it will be filed as part of the court case.
MR. TUCKER-Questioned the health condition of Councilman George Kurosaka.
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Received a letter from Mrs. Kurosaka which was written just before
his surgery, and I've talked to her since. The last I knew, he's stable, lie is in Intensive care.
He will be out for four to six months minimum. Maybe not all that time in the hospital, possibly
after a couple of months he'll be able to move to a place close to the hospital.
OPEN FORUM CLOSED
10:50 P.M.
RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION TO APPROVE MINUTES
RESOLUTION NO. 60, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Marilyn Potenza.
RESOLVED, to approve the Minutes of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury for October
25th, November 10th, December 16th of 1988, January 3rd, and 6th of 1989.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION TO RETAIN OUTSIDE COUNSEL
RESOLUTION NO. 61, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Town Attorney advises the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury that there
is a need to retain special legal counsel in connection with the litigation of Southern Adirondack
Audubon Society, Inc., et al., v. the Town of Queensbury, et al., and the litigation of the
Department of Environmental Conservation vs. the Town of Queensbury,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury is hereby authorized to
contract with and hire special counsel, Nixon, Hargrave, Devans & Doyle, to represent the
Town of Queensbury in connection with the matter of Southern Adirondack Audubon et al
v. Town of Queensbury, et al., and the Department of Environmental Conservation vs. the
Town of Queensbury, at an hourly rate as follows:
Attorneys - not to exceed $160 per hour,
VV
Attorney Richard M. Cogen - $140 per hour,
Legal assistants (if used) - not to exceed $75 per hour, and
pursuant to the terms of a letter of retainer from Nixon, Hargrave, Devans & Doyle dated
December 22, 1988, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that legal expenses paid to Nixon, Hargrave, Devans & Doyle shall not exceed
the sum of $12,000.00 without further authorization of the Town Board of the Town of
Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that this shall be paid from the account no. A1151420440 of the Town Attorney's
Office.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION APPROVING AGREEMENT FOR THE PAYMENT OF EARLTOWN LITIGATION
EXPENSES
RESOLUTION NO. 62, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has been named as a respondent in litigation commenced
by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation and action commenced
by the Southern Adirondack Audubon Society, Inc., et al, and
WHEREAS, the law firm of Nixon, Hargrave, Devans & Doyle have been retained by the Town
Board of the Town of Queensbury to assist and act as co-counsel with the Town Attorney
in connection with the said litigation, and
WHEREAS, the Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Queensbury, particularly the provisions
concerning Planned Unit Development, provide that a fee may be charged to developers of
projects requiring legal and technical review, provided that the fee charged reflects the actual
cost of legal and technical services, and that the fee is not to exceed $1,000 without consent
of the applicant, and
WHEREAS, an agreement has been reached with Earltown concerning payment of reasonable
fees and disbursements for legal expenses up to an amount not to exceed $12,000.00 without
further agreement, and a copy of said agreement is presented to this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves said agreement
presented to this meeting, which agreement provides for the payment by Earltown of expenses
incurred by the Town of Queensbury in connection with the defense of litigation concerning
the !Quaker Ridge Planned Unit Development commenced by the Department of Environmental
Conservation and the Southern Adirondack Audubon Society, Inc., et al, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized and directed to execute a copy
of -he agreement presented to this meeting, with the original being filed with the office of
the Town Clerk.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
1tz Mr._ Kurosaka
RESOLUTION TO RETAIN ENGINEERING FIRM FOR TIIE.MONTH OF JANUARY, 1989
69
RESOLUTION NO. 63, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Town Board retained Kestner Engineers, P.C. of Troy, New York to serve
as the engineer for the Town of Queensbury for the period May 23, 1988 through December
31, 1988, and
WHEREAS, Quentin T. Kestner, P.E., of Kestner Engineers, P.C., by letter dated October
21, 1988, indicated that the firm does not desire to continue as engineer for the Town of
Queensbury for 1989, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has not yet selected an engineering firm to serve as engineer
for the Town of Queensbury for the year 1989, and
WHEREAS, Kestner Engineers, P.C., has agreed to serve as an engineer for the Town of
Queensbury until January 31,'1989,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that Kestner Engineers, P.C. of Troy, New York will be retained as an engineer
for the Town of Queensbury until January 31, 1989.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TOWN CLERK TO SUBMIT PETITIONS FOR CHANGE OF
ZONE TO PLANNING BOARD OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
RESOLUTION NO. 64, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Betty Monahan.
WHEREAS, the Town Board has 'previously approved a form entitled "Petition For a Change
of Zone" for rezoning matters, and has directed that the same be used for re-zoning requests,
and
WHEREAS, the Town Attorney has recommended that any and. all applications for rezoning
must first go the Planning Department and Planning Board for recommendations regarding
the same, and
WHEREAS, following such recommendations, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury
will then review the Zoning Applications and take such other action as it shall deem necessary
and proper,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes and directs
that the following applications be submitted to the Planning Board for the Town of Queensbury
for report and recommendation:
1. Airron Ind. Corp. (2 applications),
2. Dunham's Bay Fish and Game Club, Inc.,
3. Walter C. and Maria J. Fisher,
4. Frank J. and Isobel L. Munoff, and
5. Garfield P. Raymond and Ronald L. Newell.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AGREEMENT TO REMOVE, SCRAP METAL FROM TOWN
OF RUEENSBURY-CITY OF GLENS FALLS LANDFILL
RESOLUTION NO. 65, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded
70
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury is in need of a service which would result in the collecting
and hauling away of scrap metal deposited or disposed of at the Town�of Queensbury-City
of Glens Falls Landfill, and
WHEREAS, Robert B. Brown of R. Brown and Sons, has indicated a willingness to collect
and haul away the scrap metal for the price of $8.00 per ton beginning on or about February
1, 1989, and
WHEREAS, the Town Attorney has presented a proposed agreement concerning the
aforementioned arrangement to this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves of the form
of the proposed agreement to collect and haul away scrap metal collected at the Town of
Queensbury-City of Glens Falls Landfill, for a period of 60 days, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury is hereby authorized to
sign the aforesaid agreement.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SENIOR PLANNER TO ATTEND ANNUAL MEETING OF THE
ASSOCIATION OF TOWNS
RESOLUTION NO. 66, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Marilyn Potenza.
RESOLVED, that pursuant to Section 116, Subdivision 10 of the Town Law of the State of
New York, Lee York, Senior Planner is hereby authorized to attend the annual meeting of
the Association of Towns of the State of New York to be held in New York City on February
19 - 22, 1989, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that all necessary and reasonable expenses incurred at this meeting are a proper
Town Charge.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION TO SCHEDULE PUBLIC HEARING CONCERNING PROPOSED AMENDMENTS
TO ORDINANCE NUMBER 30 AND ITS SUBSEQUENT AMENDMENTS
RESOLUTION NO. 67, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Marilyn Potenza.
WHEREAS, Ordinance No. 30 of the Town of Queensbury and its amendments dated April _
22, 1980, August 24, 1982, September 23, 1988, and October 25, 1988 provide in Section 5
for fees to be charged in connection with applications for the issuance of building permits,
and
WHEREAS, said Ordinance No. 30, Section 5 was recently amended and the Director of Building
and Codes Enforcement has recommended certain additional amendments to the Town Board
of the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, said Ordinance No. 30, Section 5 is proposed to be amended to establish new fees
for inspections 7
Per floor, and Performed in connection I 1
9 acre) r, delete the fees for with amusements
' read as set forth in the site clearing pet rides, reduce the
WHEREAS annexed proposed Section(removal of any fmate°al Iteration;
a public Pro ose
hearing concerning and involvinE
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT ping said amendments is required by law,
RESOLVED, that
hearing shall be hl Pursuant to Section
Section 5 to concerning establish new fees the amendment of the Town Law of the
rides, reduce the fees for ndments of the State of
(remov inspections ordinance as set forth w York
al o f an fee for alterations Performed a Public
Y material involvin Per flO°r in connectio above to amend
in the meeting room ' and delete n with
in the Town of of the Town of acre)) and that s the fees for amusements
Rueensbur Rueensbur aid public hearin site clearing permits
all persons interested in Y' Warren Count Y Office Building c g be held at 4:00
the subject the shall ew York a B14 and Haviland Oads
BE IT FURTHER heard °n February 14, 1989 Roads,
and at which time
RESOLVED, that the
Publish and provide Notice of Said Public Hearing Town of
HearinO'Ueensburyvbe authorized gin accordance with the law,
and directed to
SECTION 5 FEES
FEE SCHEDULE
" (All Fees Figured to the Nearest 100
Sq/FT)
rr
n
rr 'r
rr
(THAT PART OF rr rr
THAT PART OF FEE SCHEDULE NOT "
FEE SCHEDULE ALTERED
rr WILL REMAIN THE SAME.)AMENDMENT By THIS
, NOT INCLUDED.
Site Clearing permit
(Removal of an "
Y material involving 4 acre)
$15.00
rr
(TO BE
Alterations Commercial Commercial n if
if Residential
$5.00 per 100 Sq/FT(BOTH
$4,00 per 100 Sq/Ft REDUCED
Amusement Ride 11 )
it
DISCUSSION: $50.00
(TO BE
COUNCILMAN ADDED)
any other ut on O
ty n the N-What is °
State that has r obligation as far
DAVE HATIN an obligation as amusement
Director to inspect them? rides and
ruling of is there
g over amuse Building & Codes-
required to meet rides, The State
get a building permit The reason Why Labor Department
inspect is the footing of the ride. it, does
It is a structure and barging a fee, is that some
COUNCILMAN MON the only thin hat we are
AHAN-So we g that we really
WR. HATIN-No, are not getting into the safety of the ride?
—SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We don't want that
MR. HATIN- liability,
was constructed will require, when
they are installedito Wnfor the ride is constructed
finance with the specifications, that an a gineer
hat is submitted to us, n
We are concerned certify that it
d with the footings,
f � .
SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Concerned that we should even be approving the footings. I wonder
if we should have our Town Engineer do that inspection.
ATTORNEY DUSEK-I have not explored exactly what the authority is of the Building
Department to inspect these rides and exactly what regulations are in place to allow the
Town Engineer or somebody else to inspect these rides. Unfortunately I'm not able to give
the Board an opinion as to that.
MR. HATIN-On the larger projects we require an onsite engineer to do the inspections and
we verify the inspections.
COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Does this require an onsite engineer to do the inspection?
MR. HATIN-The engineer that stamps the plans should be the engineer that approves those
footings. That way there is no cost to the Town or anybody.
COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That way we avoid some liability because he is the guy who built
the plans and he is the guy that is going to attest that they're as built, not the Town.
MR. HATIN-Would you like to go for a lesser fee?
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Maybe no fee at all...
ATTORNEY DUSEK-My concern is the authority as set forth in the Building Code as to whether
there is an obligation on part of the building inspector to inspect. If that is there, I don't
think you can turn your backs on that. If it is not there though, I certainly can see where
the Board is coming from as far as why take on additional responsibility. I think first, the
issue of authority has to be looked into, to see if we really have to get into this at all.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Recommend tabling this and let Paul research.
RESOLUTION TO TABLE RESOLUTION NO. 67 OF 1989
RESOLUTION NO. 68, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby table Resolution Number
67 of 1989, to await further information.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PAYMENT TO JOSEPH R. WUNDER.LICH, INC.
RESOLUTION NO. 69, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Marilyn Potenza.
WHEREAS, Joseph R. Wunderlich, Inc., pursuant to contract, has been performing work in
the Quaker and Ridge Roads Sanitary Sewer Systems and Bay and Cronin Road Sanitary Sewer
Systems, and
WHEREAS, Joseph R. Wunderlich, Inc., has requested a change order authorizing additional
work, for a fee of $135,944.90, and
WHEREAS, Kestner Engineers, P. C. has approved and recommended said change order,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of O,ueensbury hereby authorizes payment
of Change Order No. 1, Dated - November 28, 1988, Project No. 3, in the amount of
$135,944.90, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that appropriations for the sewer project be increased by the amount of
$135,944.90 and the estimated revenues for the anticipated bonding be increased by a like
amount.
73
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PAYMENT TO JOINTA LIME COMPANY
RESOLUTION NO. 70, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury Highway Department performed certain work for and
in connection with paving as a result of the installation of sewer lines in the Central Queensbury
Quaker Road Sewer District, and
WHEREAS, Jointa lime Company supplied paving materials to the Town of Queensbury Highway
Department for road reconstruction due to installation of said sewer lines in the Town of
Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, Jointa Lime Company has submitted bills and properly completed vouchers and
has requested payment in the total amount of $1,948.60 for such materials,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the payment
of $1,948.60 to Jointa Lime Company for paving materials used for road reconstruction due
to the installation of sewer lines in the Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that payment shall be made from the sewer account.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PAYMENT TO PECKHAM MATERIALS, CORP.
RESOLUTION NO. 719 Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury Highway Department performed certain work for and
in connection with paving as a result fo the installation of sewer lines in the Central
Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, and
WHEREAS, Peckham Materials Corporation supplied paving materials to the Town of
Queensbury Highway Department for road reconstruction due to installation of said sewer
lines in the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, Peckham Materials Corporation has submitted bills and properly completed vouchers
and has requested payment in the total amount of $21,796.57 for such materials,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the payment
of $21,796.57 to Peckham Materials, Corp., for paving materials used for road reconstruction
due to the installation of sewer lines in the Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that payment shall be made from the sewer account.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
74
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION TO ESTABLISH TOWN ORDINANCE DESIGNATING OLD MILL LANE FOR
ONE-WAY TRAFFIC
RESOLUTION NO. 72, Introduced by Betty Monahan and Marilyn Potenza who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury after considering site distance, road
conditions, comments made by a local resident, Planning Board review, Quentin Kestner of
Kestner Engineers, P.C., and the recommendation of Superintendent of Highway Department
Paul Naylor, and Deputy Superintendent of Highway Department Rick Missita, considers it
in the interest of the health, safety and welfare of the general public to designate Old Mill
Lane, located off of Dixon Road, for one-way traffic, such road being more specifically
described on a subdivision map filed at the County Clerk's Office on June 27, 1987, in cabinet
A, slide 13, and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board for the Town of Queensbury has approved a subdivision known
as the Dixon Heights Subdivision subject to the designation of Old Mill Lane for one-way
traffic, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board may, pursuant to the Town Law of the State of New York Section
130 and the Vehicle and Traffic Law Section 1660 of the State of New York, designate Old
Mill Lane for one-way traffic, and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 130 of the Town Law of the State of New York a public hearing
on the proposed Town Ordinance to designate Old Mill Lane for one-way traffic in the Town
of Queensbury, was held on the 10th day of November, 1988 at 7:30 P.M.,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves and adopts
the proposed Ordinance reading as follows:
ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING ONE-WAY TRAFFIC EAST ON OLD MILL LANE
The Town Board of the Town of Queensbury ordain and enact as follows:
SECTION ONE: Old Mill Lane, from Dixon Road to North Court Road, as described and
set forth in a subdivision map filed at the Office of the County Clerk on June 27, 1987 in
Cabinet A, Slide 13, such road proceeding in an easterly direction from Dixon Road in the
Town of Queensbury is hereby designated for one-way traffic proceeding in an easterly
direction. No persons shall operate a motor vehicle over the aforesaid Old Mill Lane in a
westerly direction.
SECTION TWO: Penalties. A violation of this ordinance is hereby declared to be an offense
and any person violating the same may, upon conviction, be punished by a fine not exceeding
the sum of $25.00.
SECTION THREE: Effective Date. This ordinance shall take effect ten (10) days after
publication of the ordinance once in the official designated newspaper of the Town, such
newspaper being the Post-Star.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
COMMUNICATIONS
BID OPENING - HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT 4X4 UTILITY VEHICLE
Orange Motors 1989 Ford Bronco $19,499.00
Albany, N.Y. 12206 Non-Collusive attached
Ltr. from Highway Dept. Recommendation to accept bid from Orange Motors - on file
75
RESOLUTION TO ACCEPT BID
RESOLUTION NO. 73, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Director of Purchasing for the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New
York, duly advertised for bids for one (1) new 1989 Vehicle, full size, 4x4 utility type vehicle
(two door), and
WHEREAS, the firm of Orange Motors, 799 Central Avenue, Albany, New York 12206, was
the only bidder with a bid of $19,499.00 for furnishing of said vehicle, namely one (1) 1989
Ford Bronco complete as per Town of Queensbury Highway Department specifications, with
the exception of duel fuel tanks with skid plate,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York,
hereby awards the contract for one (1) new 1989 Ford Bronco complete as per Town of
Queensbury Highway Department specifications, with the exception of duel fuel tanks with
skid plate, to Orange Motors, with the understanding that the vehicle will be equipped as
specified, and assembled and delivered with 60-90 days as one complete unit ready for
immediate use upon delivery.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
BID OPENING - BUILDING & CODES UTILITY VEHICLE, PICK-UP TRUCK
Whiteman Chevrolet T10 Blazer $15,887.00
Glens Falls, N.Y. 12801 T10 Pick-up $13,455.00
Ltr from Building Department recommending rejection of bid - on file
RESOLUTION TO REJECT BIDS
RESOLUTION NO. 74, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
WHEREAS, the Director of Purchasing for the Town of Queensbury duly advertised for bids
for two (2) new vehicles requested by the Department of Building and Codes for the Town
of Queensbury, namely, for one (1) 4 Wheel Drive Pick-up and one (1) 4 Wheel Drive Utility
Passenger Vehicle, bid specifications being attached herewith, and
WHEREAS, the Director of Building and Codes for the Town of Queensbury recommends that
the bids be rejected,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York,
hereby rejects the bids submitted for the vehicles aforementioned and hereby authorizes
the Director of Purchasing to investigate using State Contract to purchase said vehicles in
compliance with bid specifications attached hereto, for use in the Building and Codes
Department of the Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
i
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
BID OPENING - WATER DEPARTMENT CHEMICALS
Ashland Chemical Co. Liquid Chlorine .25/P Deposit $800.00
Caustic.Soda $400.00/T No Deposit
16
Non-Collusive attached
Holland Co. Liquid Alum $187.20/Net Ton
Non-Collusive attached
Monarch Chemicals Liquid Alum NO BID
Liquid Chlorine $525.00 each Deposit $750.00
Caustic Soda $384.40/Net Ton
Non-Collusive attached
Ltr. from Water Department with recommendations for acceptance of bids - on file
RESOLUTION TO ACCEPT BID
RESOLUTION NO. 75, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Betty Monahan.
WHEREAS, the Director of Purchasing for the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New
York, duly advertised for bids for Liquid Chlorine, Liquid Caustic Soda, and Liquid Alum pursuant
to Town of Queensbury Water Department Specifications, and
WHEREAS, the firm of Monarch Chemicals, Inc., submitted the lowest bid for the Liquid
Caustic Soda, the firm of Holland Company, Inc., submitted the lowest bid for the Liquid
Alum, and the firm of Ashland Chemical Company submitted the lowest bid for the Liquid
Chlorine, copies of the bids being attached hereto,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York,
hereby awards the contract for one Liquid Caustic Soda to Monarch Chemicals, Inc., the contract
for Liquid Alum to Holland Company, Inc., and the contract for Liquid Chlorine to Ashland
Chemical Company, per Town of Queensbury Water Department Specifications.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
I.TR - DOT regarding lowering speed limit on Haviland Road - on file
RESOLUTION FROM WARREN COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS regarding confinement
of dogs - on file
REPORTS
Annual Report - Historian - on file
Annual Report - Town Clerk - on file
Annual Report - Receiver of Taxes - on file
Annual Report - Landfill - on file
Monthly Report - Building & Codes - on file
RESOLUTION TO APPROVE SPECIAL AUDIT OF 1988
RESOLUTION NO. 76, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Ronald Montesi.
RESOLVED, that the Special Audit showing on abstract January 24th, 1989 numbered 3773
and 3846 to 3850 and totaling $618,034.50 is hereby approved.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
RESOLUTION TO APPROVE SPECIAL AUDIT OF 1989
7
RESOLUTION NO. 77, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Marilyn Potenza.
RESOLVED, that the Special Audit showing on abstract January 24th, 1989 numbered 89-9,
10, 11 and totaling $1,720.00 is hereby approved.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka
On motion, the meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
DARLF.EN M. DOUGHER
TOWN CLERK
TOWN OF QUEENSBURY