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1989-08-08 TOWN BOARD MEETING AUGUST 8, 1989 7:32 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT STEPHEN BOR GOS-S UPER VISOR GEORGE KUROSAKA-COUNCILMAN (enter meeting at 8:20 p.m.) MARIL YN POTENZA-COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI-COUNCILMAN BETTY MONA HA N-COUNCILMA N TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DUSEK a TOWN OFFICIALS Lee York, Dave Hatin, Paul Naylor, Kathleen Kathe, Robert Eddy PRESS: PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN MONTESI PUBLIC HEARING -PROPOSED LOCAL LAW-BAY ROAD -PARKING 7:35 P.M. i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The first public hearing tonight relates to proposed local law creating a two hour parking zone on both sides of Bay Road from Quaker Road south to the railroad f tracks. At this time I'll ask the clerk, has this been properly advertised and noticed? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Yes it has. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak for or against or just generally about this proposed regulations? There have been a couple of calls to my office today from people that I have never heard of before who said they were going to be here and they are not. So why don't we just keep that one open for a few minutes and put } that aside. i PUBLIC HEARING -PROPOSED LOCAL LAW- TEMPORARY BLOCKING OF TOWN HIGHWAYS 7:38 P.M. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The next public hearing relates to the proposed local law blocking highways, giving permission to the Highway Superintendent to permit the blocking of certain highways at certain times. Is Mr. Naylor here by any chance? He is not here. Is anyone else here ready to speak for or against this proposal? DAVE HA TIN-I'm here representing Queensbury Central Fire Department, I'm assistant chief for the fire department. The fire department would like to go on record in opposition to this local low as it is presented. I have a letter from here from Chief Brian LoFlure, which he would like read into the record. Some things we would like to make some comments on for the proposed local law. In the local law there is no mention of notifying emergency services, via police, fire...that those streets are going to be blocked off. The other problems we have related to the problems we see happen in the City of Glens Falls when streets are blocked off and I don't know if the Board has considered it or not. When you block off a street, you not oniv block off the street that you want to block off but you also effect the surrounding streets around the street that is blocked off. One question that I think you have to consider is where these people are going to park that are going to come to these block parties. if they can't park on the effected street that means they have to park on the neighboring streets creating congestion and a traffic problem on neighboring streets. It is a concern of ours because we have to pet through, we hove to get access to hydrants, to the buildings, and during a mass chaos which usually happens when you get an instance in the middle of these, it blocks F the street from people who are trying to move their vehicles for us. So it does create havoc. In section 7 in the proposed local law, you put that, I'll read it in the words of the local law, that a street or a portion there of blocked off for a party shall not be obstructed by obstacles which cannot be readily moved to allow emergency or hazard vehicles to enter in response to an emergency. This is very loosely worded. What do you mean by an obstacle that is removable? I can put a tent in the middle of the street and I can move it, but is it easily moveable, that is the question in point, I think. It is a concern of the fire department. We really have a problem with people putting things in the middle of the streets. Ambulances have a hard time getting through if they hove a problem. There are slot of things I think that have to be considered before you have this local low adopted or if you have it adopted at all. We don't feel that that has been addressed. That is pretty much it. I hove a letter here that I would like the Town Clerk to read into the record. 35 SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Would you do that please? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-To Stephen Borgos, Town Board, Queensbury from Brian LaFlure, Chief, Queensbury Central, July 8, 1989, regarding the proposed local law for the temporary blocking of town streets. The Queensbury Central Fire Department would like to go on record at this hearing in opposition to the proposed law. The main reason for this opposition is the lack of control available to ensure the ability of emergency vehicles to travel on the street after it has been closed. Emergency responders will not have time nor manpower to remove barricades, picnic tables, furniture, or whatever may be blocking access to street signs, hydrants, driveways. We feel that the possible disastrous results of this kind of situation for out weigh any benefits. Thank you for your consideration of this matter. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Just a comment. I can sympathize with you because I worked the Lion's Club Beer Festival at the park in the City and to that extent the Glens Falls Fire Department always placed a truck right on site. A few times that has gotten to be controversial too because they had to move things out of the way so that truck had accessibility to the street which was being blocked, so it was actually on the street. I don't think that is something you would even consider having to do... AIR. HA TIN-Are feeling Ron, is that when you block off a street for a block party like that to continue, you virtually close that street down for the duration and for us to get emergency vehicles to get in there, we feel it is almost impossible, even in the best conditions, it is impossible. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Just a little background to this. I understand, I didn't get in on a// of this, I understand a number of people called the Town Offices and I don't know exactly who they spoke to, requesting that parts of dead end streets and cul de sac's be shut off from time to time for parties during the summer, primarily graduation parties, weddings and that kind of things. Other than that I don't know how many have called or whatever but apparently there was no authorization in the law to permit this un less we went through this home rule legislation route. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-The understanding that while the proposed law and public gearing was held was that a number of streets connecting streets that have a very good commander among the neighbors and would like to hold a block party. I think the concept of what they are looking for is not the same. They don't want a larac festival, they want a block party where the neighbors can come out and put their picnic tables on the front lawns and grill in their driveways and reasonable like to block the street off because the children can then go from one friend's house to another and they don't have to worry about the automobiles. I'm trying to think of the name of the street up near Cottage Hill that have on occasion called — and asked for a block party. I think it is something we can work out but I don't want the impression _given that people are going to put tents at the end of their streets or they're going to have beer blasts. That is not the intent... MR. HA TIN-1 think that's what needs to be clarified. The way the law is worded right now, it does allow that. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-1 see no reason why you can't go back to working board again, the chopping block sort to speak and... AIR. HA TIN-The way I've been asked to represent the Fire Department is opposed to any blocking of the streets no matter where they are. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-1 think on occasion when the streets have been blocked, that they have used just the horses so that it prevented the cars from _going up and down and not a connecting street, just a street that could easily be bypassed. AIR. HA TIN-Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak about this? PLINEY TUCKER-Ward 4, Queensbury. My question is liability. Where would the Town stand as for as liability...? It remains public property. Has anybody looked into that? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is a good question. See, the reason for holding a public hearing like this is to bring out questions such as this. We have no other mechanism under the open meeting regulations other than to bring such things forward, this is the way its here, so we are getting this information. Mr. Hatin has raised an interesting point. You're raising another question about liability. Those are very, very difficult questions to answer. AIR. TUCKER-1 know that the volunteer fire companies when they have circuses, carnivals and what have you, they have to furnish liability insurance. 96 SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is correct. MR. TUCKER-It's something that ought to be looked at. While I'm here, whose requesting the parking on Bay Road? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'll get back to that in just a minute, just so that we can keep our sequence right. I will explain that. l thought somebody would be here, but I'll explain in detail. Anyone else who wishes to speak about this local law related to blocking of highways? Another member of the Board have anything to say about that? Seeing none. Does the Board wish to take any action related to this particular one? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Mrs. Potenza, would you like this to be tabled, to be a little more refined or do you want to call a vote on it? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No. It would be a recommendation that this proposed resolution — be tabled. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do you want to table it or you just want to not act. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No. One of the the concerns about the community is to keep up a home town feeling to this community. I think that sometimes we blow these things out of proportion. We've been called on, I don't know, maybe a half a dozen times within the last year for small street parties, so neighbors can get together and they don't have to worry about their children crossing the streets when going over to visit their friends across the street. That's all that the people of this Town are looking for and I don't see why we can't go back to the starting place and perhaps draw up a law that would allow that to happen so that those people that want to do it can do it. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED RESOLUTION TO TABLE RESOLUTION ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW REGARDING TEMPORARY BLOCKING OF TOWN STREETS, HIGHWAYS AND ROADS RESOLUTION NO. 424, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Ronald Montesi. RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby table "RESOLUTION TO ENACT LOCAL LAW REGARDING TEMPORARY BLOCKING OF TOWN STREETS, HIGHWAYc AND ROADS", at presently defined. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Kurosoka PUBLIC HEARING - PROPOSED LOCAL LAW- BAY ROAD PARKING (continued) SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is there anyone here to speak about parking yet? If not, okay, we've had a request from Mr. Tucker for me to explain what I know about this. I think some of the Board members know something about this. There is a tremendous traffic problem on Bay Road, particularly south of Quaker. The problem has been aggravated in recent months by many people parking all day long on both sides of Bay Road. Two of the businesses in that area, one of them being CR Bard incorporated, contacted our office, initially for a traffic control officer of some sort to assist people getting in and out of work. We looked at the low, there is nothing in the law that permits us to do that. The only thing we could possibly do would be to take a deputy off patrol ten minutes a day, every day, to do this work. That exposes us to more liability, the County liability, to pull a deputy off from... Another possibility would be to create no parking zones on both sides of the road but that then would eliminate people from stopping for five or ten minutes to run into one of the little businesses and coming back out again. So it was proposed that an alternative might be to have two hour parking which would permit people to stop for brief periods at the businesses, not keep the cars there _ all day, would not obstruct the visibility of people going in and out of Bard and some of the other businesses. But make traffic flow better. Its the least change, the softest remedy that appears to reasonable for that situation. I would agree with the people who are supporting this that it's worth a try anyway. CR Bard recognizes that most of the people parking in front of their business and across the street are their own employees. They have more than adequate parking on their own premises they indicate to handle all those people. As the traffic problem has gotten worse, enter and leaving, more and more people have said lets start from Bay Road instead of starting from the parking lot. So its compounding itself. It seems like a reasonable approach, its an inexpensive approach. Again, I've had many people talk to me, I've had no one say, no don't do it. I was hoping someone here would speak either for or against it. So that is the position. CR Bard was going to have somebody with us tonight. They have been in touch with us many times. BOB RAVEN-I'm the plant engineer at CR Bard. We've tried to put in various traffic control devices...parking rules and regulations. As our plant grew, more and more people took their...and because theirs thousands of people pulling out into traffic, many near accidents. My office overlooks Bay Road, and at four-fifteen, when the first shift lets out, there are people taking wages on whether there is going to be an accident or not. There's people going pretty fast, thirty-five miles or so, and everyone wants to get home, there's probably four hundred people leaving at four-fifteen, so it is pretty crowded. Basically we don't object to the two hour parking. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any Board members have questions while he is here? MR. RAVEN-There's at least a hundred extra spaces in the parking lot. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-So there is ample parking? MR. RAVEN-We've just added fifty more spaces in the last few weeks... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you very much. Does the Board have any questions or comments about this first public hearing, about the parking situation? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Did any of these businesses along Bay Road that might need some of that parking in front, have any contact with you Steve? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes. Blackburn studio across the street, strongly in favor. Would be opposed to no parking, because they have to have people stop and go, but they are in favor of the two hour. They don't feel any of their people would stay for that long. If you can visualize the other businesses, there is no parking on the right anyway, Stan's, there is no parking. It would end up, very few businesses impacted but this would be a tremendous safety measure. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I just wonder who is going to monitor it and enforce it? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It would be up to the Sheriff's Department to enforce, I believe, once it is posted and I believe it would be enforced. CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING RESOLUTION TO ENACT LOCAL LAW NO. 5 OF 1989 REGULATING PARKING ON A PORTION OF BA Y ROAD RESOLUTION NO. 425, Introduced by Marilyn Potenzo who moved for its adoption, seconded by Ronald Montesi. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of enacting a Local Law regulating parking on a portion of Bay Road, and WHEREAS, this is a Type 11 action, therefore, no Environmental Assessment Form is required, and WHEREAS, on August 8, 1989, a public hearing with regard to the proposed Local Low was conducted, and WHEREAS, a copy of the proposed Local Law with all provisions has been presented to this meeting, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby enacts Local Law No. 5, a copy of the some being presented at this meeting, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk for the Town of Queensbury is hereby directed to file the said Local Law with the New York State Secretary of State in accordance with the provisions of the Municipal Home Rule Law. 98 Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Kurosaka LOCAL LAW NO. 5 OF 1989 A LOCAL LAW "REGULATING PARKING ON A PORTION OF BAY ROAD" Be it enacted by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury as follows: 1. Purpose: The purpose of this local law is to provide for a limitation of the length of time that vehicles may be parked along a portion of Bay Road, in the Town of Queensbury. 2. Definitions: For the purpose of this local law, the words "motor vehicle", "vehicle", "person", and "park" shall have the some meanings as set forth for the definitions of such words in the Vehicle and Traffic Law of the State of New York. 3. Parking on Bay Road: No motor vehicle or other vehicle of any kind shall be allowed or permitted to park and no person shall park a motor vehicle or other vehicle for a period of time of more than two hours on either side of that portion of Bay road, in the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, lying or existing between the intersection of Bay and Quaker Roads, in the said Town of Queensbury and certain railroad tracks south of said intersection, said area being more specifically described as follows: "All that portion of Bay Road described as the easterly side of Bay Road, beginning at the intersection of Bay and Quaker Roads, in the Town of Queensbury, and thence proceeding from said intersection on said Bay Road in a southerly direction, for a distance of 1,765 feet to a point where certain railroad tracks cross Bay Road, just south of said intersection of Bay and Quaker Roads, and all that portion of Bay Road described as the westerly side of Bay Road, beginning at the intersection of Bay and Quaker Roads, in the Town of Queensbury, and thence proceeding from said intersection on said Boy Road in a southerly direction, for a distance of 1,815 feet to a point where certain railroad tracks cross Bay Road, just south of said intersection of Bay and Quaker Road. 4. Penalty: Any person violating any provision of Section 3 of this Local Law, shall, upon conviction, be punishable for a first offense by a fine not to exceed $25.00 and, for a second offense, by a fine not to exceed $50.00. In addition to the aforesaid penalties, the — Town Board of the Town of Queensbury may institute any proper action, suit or proceeding to prevent, restrain, correct or abate any violation of this Local Law. 5. This Local Law shall take effect immediately upon filing thereof in the office of the Secretary of State. PUBLIC HEARING -PROPOSED AMENDMENT- ORDINANCE # 30 7:50 P.M. NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The next public hearing relates to proposed amendment to Ordinance 30. This is the creation of a fee of twenty dollars per inspection for those free standing and unheated buildings which generally require two or less inspections and not otherwise covered by our fee schedule. Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor or against this? Any Board member wish to speak for or against? No one spoke. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED RESOLUTION TO AMEND ORDINANCE NO. 30 AND ITS SUBSEQUENT AMENDMENTS RESOLUTION NO. 426, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Betty Monahan. WHEREAS, Ordinance No. 30 of the Town of Queensbury and its amendments dated April 22, 1980, August 24, 1982, September 23, 1988, and October 25, 1988 provided in Section 5 for fees to be charged in connection with applications for the issuance of building permits and other types of building-related permits, and WHEREAS, it appears appropriate to amend the said ordinance Section 5 to establish, increase or delete certain fees and add additional wording, and 99 WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury duly called a public hearing for the consideration of the aforesaid amendment and duly gave notice thereof required by law, and WHEREAS, said public hearing was held by this Town Board of the Town of Queensbury at the Town Office Building, Bay at Haviland Roads, Queensbury, New York, on the 8th day of August, 1989 at 7:30 p.m., NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the ordinance No. 30 of the Town of Queensbury and amendments dated April 22, 1980, August 24, 1982, September 23, 1988, and October 25, 1988 be and the same hereby is amended so that Section 5 shall read:, " .free standing and unheated buildings (pole barn, picnic pavilion, etc.) which requires 2 or less inspections plus certificate of compliance - $20.00 per inspection...", and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the said amendment and change will take effect immediately, and BE IT FURTHER RESOL VED, that the said amendment be entered in the August 8, 1989 minutes from the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury Board Meeting, and that the Town Clerk publish a certified copy of the amendment of the ordinance in the official newspaper of the Town and publish such notices as may be required by law. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Kurosaka HEARING - UNSAFE STRUCTURE -EAST DRIVE 7:55 P.M. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This relates to an unsafe structure at East Drive. Has this been properly advertised? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-It didn't have to be in the paper. Only the individual had to be notified. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Not required. The individual has been notified? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Hatin, would you brief us on this one? DAVE HA TIN, Director of Building & Codes-1 don't know if the Board has seen the pictures on this. Basically what we have is an old foundation to a residence that had to be removed some time ago. The neighbors feel it is a hazard for the children in the area. It is becoming a dumping ground for personal belongings of other people of other properties. Therefore we request that the Board require it be filled in and leveled off so it no longer will be a hazard. I have pictures here. (presented pictures to the Board members) SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 don't see a proposed resolution here. Do you have one? ATTORNEY DUSEK-There is two stages to this particular proceeding. One stage is a time clock that must run before the Town Board can go ahead and order the filling of the site themsr, The second stage is the public hearing. My estimation is that the time period will probably run within the next couple of weeks. So 1 would have resolution prepared at that time for the Board. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. So the most that we can do tonight is hold a public hearing. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Actually this is not a public hearing, you don't have to hold a public hearing on this. Its a hearing to afford the owner or the owners representative an opportunity to come to the Town Board and indicate why they can not do whatever it is to fill the hole, to solve the problem, or ask for time or whatever. If the person doesn't show up and the hole is not filled within time period than this Board can go ahead and direct it be done. RES(C')L UTIO_N, CALLING FOR THE BOARD OF HEALTH to O RESOLUTION NO. 427, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Marilyn Potenza. RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourn and enter as the Queensbury Board of Health. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the followin_q vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. K urosaka QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH PUBLIC HEARING -SEWER VARIANCE -RICHARD CUTTING 8:00 P.M. NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The first public hearing relates to the sewer variance for the Richard Cutting property. Has this been advertised? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Yes it has. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Anyone who wishes to speak for or against this? Is there anyone here to speak about this? Mr. Hatin would you give us a brief background? MR. HA TIN, Director of Building & Codes-I believe the Cutting's are requesting two variances. One from the foundation to the seepage pits which is fifteen feet. The seepage pit is sixteen feet the ...box is fifteen feet. Also there is another variance...because they have seepage pits that take greater requirement between the well and the seepage pit, of a hundred fifty feet versus one hundred feet...so therefore they are requesting a hundred feet... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do you have any.further information? MR. HA TIN-Not as such. The perk test rates are on the septic application, I believe, the septic variance application, soil conditions... SUPERVISOR. BORGOS-The Health Department recommends approval? AIR. HA TIN-Yes, they do. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You have visited the site? MR. HATIN-Yes, I have. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What would you recommend? AIR. HATIN-I would say it is the best of all situations that you are going to get. The house is fairly large for a small lot and they really don't have any other choice. There is a road that goes down through there, I think that is a right-of-way and in order to meet the distance requirements, they would have to put them under the road. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-You have to put, not the holding tank in? AIR. HA TIN-No, the tank itself fine. The variance is not for the tank... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-But to put another septic system in, it would have to go under the road. MR. HA TIN-Yes. To conform it would have to go under the road. The other problem you have is to meet the hundred fifty feet, they can not do ... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-The holding tank would be pumped on on average of? AIR. HA TIN-Depending on usage, it could be any where from a week to a month, alot of it depends on use. 101 COUNCILMAN POTENZA-But it is self contained. AIR. HATIN-Yes. This will be, this is not a holding tank set up...this is the seepage pits, functioning septic system. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-They told me this requires two variances. MR. HA TIN-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is there another one tomorrow? AIR. HA TIN-Yes, tomorrow night is the one for the well septic which is also on the application, but we forgot that when we set the public hearing... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dave the only thing that this diagram that I have in front of me doesn't show, a field visit didn't show either, we are asking for on the second variance of exception of the distance from his well. Where are the neighbor's wells? MR. HATIN-Darleen do you have the map? Town Clerk Dougher presented map to Mr. Hatin , pointed out to Board members the wells in the area. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Darleen received some letters. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 was just about to ask Darleen,, could you read the letter that has come in please? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-This is from Dianne Barber. 1 will be out of Town for business on 8-9-89 and unable to attend the public hearing. I am the property owner on the adjacent northerly lot at Lake Sunnyside. There is a well and septic system located on my lot. 'Be advised that there may be a structure on that lot. I'm requesting that due to the trend of converting past residences to year round permanent structures, that the Board consider future effects on the lake and the echo system. I also request that the adjacent seepage beds be moved away from the shared boundary line and the right-of-way deeded to me. I would prefer that the seepage beds and septic systems be moved to the southerly portion of the Cutting property. Thank you for your consideration. Also l have a letter from Dianne Barber. I have received a map submitted regarding the Cutting variance plotting existing seepage pits. Please note, 1, 1 believe lot 66 septic is inaccurate plotted. 2, there is a well on lot 66 not shown. 3, property tax map 63 also belongs to me. 4, the deeded right-of-way owned by me is not shown. 5, the Cutting house is very close to our common property, see Building Department files and prior variances and is not situated as shown by a free hand sketch. Please be advised of these additional concerns as I will be out of town on business. Thank you for your attention to these details. (turn tape) COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Steve, I had to disqualify myself because this involves my family. There is a well on that lot. SUPER VISOR BOR GOS-1 recognize the name here. Now that would be... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-66. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm looking at this site plan.. I don't see, is this 66? The copy didn't come through. (Mr. Hatin pointed on map) COUNCILMAN A40NAHAN-I'd like to also point out, I thought Mr. Miller was going to be here tonight, 1 don't know what has happened, that he is yet to drill a well on his property, 67 65 and 64 is Cuttings. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-64 is Cuttings also? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Yes, its two lots and the house is sitting in the middle of them. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Now, the letter from Mrs. Barber requests something to be moved from the north to the south and I'm just trying to figure out where is north. Is the Barber property north? COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Right, its not due north. 102 SUPERVISOR BOP.GOS-So the corner formed by lots 63 and 66 would be northwest? So 63 would really be north. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea. (pointed out on map to Supervisor) Right here is the picnic...okay? SUPER VISOR BOP.GOS-I'll take your word for it, I don't... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Okay there is a little lane that goes in right in there opposite my driveway. Then you get to the deeded right-of-way, which is right here. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The right-of-way is outside of the Cutting property rather than across it? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well without looking at their deed I couldn't specifically say, but from visual it would look that way. This property and this property belong to Barber, right here. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-67 and 63? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, 66. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-66 and 63 belong to Barber? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes. This here is Paul Miller, this 67 is Paul Miller who is redoing one of the old places there and making that a permanent residence also. fie does not, he's got a septic system in which is roughly right opposite Barbers which is a little lower than it shows on this sketch that you've got here and he is yet to drill a well. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-So any place that Barber puts a well is _going to be not in conformance... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Their well is right there... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-So she's within a hundred feet of his septic system. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-These lots are only forty to forty-two feet wide. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That is the whole problem. i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Forty-four feet... j COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Her well is within a hundred feet of two septic systems. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What exists there now? There presently is a septic system of some sort? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes, there is a septic system roughly about on 66... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The photocopy let off parts of aloe of letters of the words. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 have to go by this, 66 the sep tic tank...(demonstrated on mup to Supervisor) SUPERVISOR BOP.GOS-There is no tile fields at all. Two dry wells. Are there any nitctt� The only alternative I can see from this is putting them closer to the lake which we , like to do. You can't go one side or the other any closer. What is there now as for as a trr field of any sort for the septic tank? MIR. HA TIN-This is a newly constructed house, the CO has not been issued on it yet. What we have is a brand new septic system. So they are asking for a variance to put in the seepac, pit. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So the septic tank that's there is a brand new one? AIR. HA TIN-Yes. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Was there a septic system on that lot previously or not? AIRS. CUTTING-Yes there was. Basically right where it is right now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We are getting a response from the audience that the septic system has been there for some period of time. For another house? s � COUNCILMAN POTENZA-They replaced it with the new system. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you come to the microphone please, identify yourself and give your address? HELEN CUTTING-1 reside in Queensbury on Lake Sunnyside. I bought this other property, added to mine and built this new home. I did that with an awful lot of trouble. SUPERVISOR. BORGOS-Have you lived on this lot, 64 for some time? You are talking about 65 now. You said you added this lot to your other lot. MRS. CUTTING-I took both places down and built one big one. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, so there were two buildings there to begin with. MRS. CUTTING-1 bought two lots and now they put them together, on tax receipts and deed. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-You're putting a new house... MRS. CUTTING-I've got it up there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Pretty much in the middle. MRS. CUTTING-Now I need some dry wells. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Now I've got a better picture. i don't live up there. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-She has been a long time resident of that area. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 knew that the Cuttings lived there but I didn't know just where. MRS. CUTTING-1 own property up above, that's where my water is coming from...I have it all in there ready to go, just as soon as I get my dry well. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-1 guess this raises the issue that 1 was trying to get across about two months ago when i have to sit as the Board of Health, I really need to have, I have a drawing here that says the house is in the middle of the lot, it doesn't say that its ten feet or twenty feet or fifteen feet from the property line. I don't have the right-of-way shown. I really need to have some of the specific, enough if its an engineering. You're asking me to grant a variance on a critical issue of how close, these lots are forty-five feet wide, and we're going to be putting septic tanks and water supply within a hundred feet of one another. Not on one lot but potentially on three or four. I know it is in existence, its something that has existed before. It certainly makes sense that we should learn from our mistakes. I'm not saying I'm opposed to this, I'm just opposed to trying to make a decision with a minimal amount of informal; It's just so important to have this thing in front of me when I sit as the Board of Health with all of the details on this so 1 can walk out and go to this neighborhood and look at it. I think it is important as the Board of Health Officer to take a field trip on this. Mrs. Potenza and I did on another one that is coming up here. But its important that I know where the neighbors septic tanks and wells are. We've got some pencil marks and some little red drawings here and we have a house sketched in and I assume that its not ten feet or fifteen feet from the line. I just think that it is a poor way to make a very important decision on what people will be drinking for the next fifty years that live in this house. I have to criticize myself as a Board member for allowing this kind of shorty presentation. I think that from now on we've got to have some standards that when somebody comes in for a variance, septic tank variance or whatever they are asking for, they have a list of things that we need to know, period. This is crazy. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The original form has been completed. I think everything has been answered. Perhaps our form has to be modified. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-In response to Mr. Montesi's, we talked about this, and this is not the fault of the system , its the fault of the Board of Health because we don't have... COUNCILMAN M0NTESl-1'm taking it all on my shoulders. COUNCILMAN PO TEN ZA-Thats right. We don't have a checks and balance list that somebody can come in and say, what we do we need in order to go before this board. So its the responsibili t of this Board to draw up such a list before we can expect the people to comply with it. PAUL MILLER-1 live at lot 67. On reside in Hudson Falls now and am renovating the existing structure for a year round residence. Hopefully I can shed a little bit of light on it where our tanks are and where they aren't. It is true that there definitely is a problem. I need a 104 well and I'm going to have to go very close to the lake even to get reasonable ...but I'm not going to be able to maintain a hundred feet let alone a hundred and fifty feet, my lot is almost that long to begin with. As well, Dianne Barber, next door has exactly the some problem. I turns out, we are, in fact her two, you know worst enemies as far as septic systems because my septic system and her own septic system are ten times closer than Dick Cutting's system. In fact by measurement to the point, I went to find the point, she's only, the point right now is only twenty-five feet from my leach field, only forty feet from hers. Approximately, I didn't measure to the inch, there or abouts. So her and I no matter what in order to get pure water or at least reasonable pure water, would have to be right on the shore. That is the only relief, there is no other place to go. Dianne possibly would be able to go out 63, 1 think that was kind of an oblong lot that goes down the right-of-way. She could possibly could get...in that direction. But 1 don't know if moving Dick's dry wells to the southerly part of his lot would infringe on that more. Obviously he has a right to use that property in some way and if it meant moving his dry wells all the way to the south of the property, maybe that's truly the only safe place, yea... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 would like to make the recommendation that we are already scheduled to meet on the other part of this tomorrow. Perhaps Mr. Montesi could visit the site, tomorrow, Mrs. Potenza, I don't know if your schedules permit that. But actually go out there and see it, maybe Mrs. Cutting will meet with you, show you where things are and then tomorrow we come back and resolve this. I feel a little concerned. Obviously you are in a tight spot. The old lots are problems. All over Town they're problems. A problem for us, a problem for you. I feel better, how does the Board feel about that? Would you like to hold off on that? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-1 would recommending tabling it tonight. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We go out to the field we can see what is there. I won't go with you so we won't have a quorum, won't have to call a special meeting. i'/I try to get out there in the day myself. MR. MILLER-is it possible to schedule to be there at that time? I mean I can show you whats real and whats not. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do you have any idea what time you can make it tomorrow? MR. MILLER-It would make it alot easier, you wouldn't have to walk around and wonder, is it here or is it there. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Four o'clock? MR. MILLER-Four is fine. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mrs. Cutting could you make it a four o'clock? MRS. CUTTING-Yes. Mr. Cutting isn't well but he'd be there. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Alright. Four is fine. Just as long as you're there, just so that you can point out, someone is there that can point out. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are these locations staked? Is there a stake in the ground for the proposed septic tank and well and whatever? MRS. CUTTING-Yes. SUPER VISOR BOR GOS-Wonderful. That should make it quite easy. Does the Board agree then, just wish to, we probably better have a motion to table. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-i made the motion. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm sorry I didn't hear. Is there anyone to second? COUNCILMAN MONTESi-1111 second. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Moved and seconded. We're ready to vote on this very specifically until tomorrow's special meeting which starts at 7:30. RESOLUTION TO TABLE RESOLUTION APPROVING SEPTIC VARIANCE - RICHARD CUTTING RESOLUTION NO. 32, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Ronald Montesi. RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the "own df Queensbury hereby table Resolution "RESOL UTION APPROVING VARIANCE REQUESTS OF RICHARD & HELEN CUTTING". Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1589, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Kurosaka Abstain: Mrs. Monahan PUBLIC HEARING -SEWER VARIANCE RC)l�OR�` � JOANNE SMITH 8:20 P.M NOTICE SHOWN (Councilman Kurosaka entered meeting) SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. �Hatin, would yvu g1Ve us a brief background on this one? a MR. HA TIN-This I believe Is the replocemdnt 6 Nn existing system. the'Smiths are asking to replace the seepage pits in the exact sage_l u6n.". Eecduse,they.are replacing with new seepage pits, they do have to conform to the piIndnce, that they can trot do, so`therefore they are requesting a variance to place thehl In the existing location. Similar to the ones you had on Hall Road 5 SUPERVISOR BORC OS-Have`you been to the stet MR. HATIN-I have not been to this site pirsdttd�ily� My building inspegtor Whitney Russell has. SUPERVISOR BOR GO is,the recdrirrt�enc►dtlon,of your d0drtra6"t l MR. HA TIN-Where Is no ath dlternr tl it ri y ftdsrrh they re r pta+ ire it,because they failed. Therefore w6-006 asking, they�L kl g for a vdrl ace• SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You.ore sdtlsfiiltes and pl, aenrrehtsf 1s is do alder=subdlvlslr 6 'he-lots dgalh'dre sh�idll thee Y ar N � > MR. HA ttN-Yes. Th p otions are not there. Fortunately;ythls dies not' rtrtfrf tb;a lake though. � � fi��4�' COUNCILMAN MONAHAIV�Oave, ►hen'y lk dt these, do you also"theclrthe soils map that we have to see what the suitobillt `y of,the"Soil is. _ MR. HA TIN-No, we do not, Betty: COUNCILMAN MONAHANy1 Wish that ruould be 'Otte question that ought.t6 beddded to these farms, i do believe. I have to rttlrnit; t3 da°dt»rltetM;l'h� sure this rrfeans something td:George, i don't know if the perco10fi i rate Of,ten l�hlttt+t�s'p�r Inches, gpod, btt�ar'„ilvhrlf. MR. HA TIN-Its an extremely'slow pert. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Thais dlot 6 ►tier ?tttn.lets five minutes per inch. ,l would say ten is fairly good. Zero to five Is pretty.fdst; ;this water just kinds of rdhs'through. ' But If you get ten minutes,Its slower SUPERVISOR BOR COS-Do you understand how? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea, that part ► ttwtderstood. it is a concern because, l know its where it was, but It Is a concern becduse,6r tyre distance from the wells again. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-We have no optio y'c3n this particular one Betty.F There's absolutely no choice. Its this or`the 'd n't get a se0t1b-4Y8tet». COUNCILMAN MONAHAN J retrllre`t) t. BU gtrass yrrr like J4dn,"1'm geftJng concerned about all these variances were getting beet8re frwarlder What's going t be the result of these down the road. Do we have�thls'blacked'o6, a ear" 'the adlacent wells? MR. HATIN-I believe that's on the map. o COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The wells are all in the backyard. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mrs. Monahan just mentioned the concern for variances. We all share that. However, under our new regulations,' that Is the only way people can do things that might otherwise even a year'ago, just been >:estilved. We've got to go through the motions and sometimes we find things that are not goo&o That Is why they are here. Many cases it could be handled more efficiently, I don't know,,what the decision would be but at a different level, we don't have any other mechanism to dd this. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No that is not what I meant. My concern is, are we going to over tax the grounds In slot of these areas. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thats right. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Around the lakes or our streams or whatever. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dave, when you soy the, what failed on this house, the tank or the leaching fields? MR. HA TIN-The seepage pits failed. I believe they became plugged. The Smiths are here, they can answer for you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'd like the other people to talk in just a minute. COUNCILMAN MONTESi--So they are going tareploce the seepage pits and also the leaching fields or this is just seepage pits? MR. HA TIN-Seepage pits. They have seepage pits there now, they have failed, they no longer perc In the ground. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-So they pull them out,'put new ones in... MR. HA TIN-Replace the soils in the area. COUNCILMAN MONTESI--hats a pretty,major job anyway. This Is what we replaced up in Pershing, Ashley, Coolidge, seepage plts: SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thonk you. Would dhyorje else like to speak? ROBERT SMITH-My Warne is Bab Smlthr i l/ve tat 9 Brookwood Crlve. A/I 1`can say is that we hod Mr. Russell out,and has assured us�-toot-ther+e'are no other.alternatives to replace -- these two seepage pits. Our tank it trre but ve l ust tlar't have the s p ac e for'an alternative system. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-•Thank you Does any Board member have any,questions for Mr. Smith? Thank you very much. Anyone else who wishes to speak? BR UCE ARMSTRONG-My name is Bruce Armstrong and 1 live at 7 Brookwood Drive. I'm a neighbor of Bob Smiths. We're neutral to the project and hope Bob gets his septic replaced. I have a question about the distance from wells. Our well is in the backyard and I'm not exactly certain how for away it is but it does concern us. I guess, not being an engineer, i don't know whether this poses problems in doing this being the law is now a hundred and fifty feet versus, I know it was less. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It was hundred not too long ago. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-It was fifty before that. AIR. ARMSTRONG-Yes. I guess I don't know what is going to happen in the future to our wells, to my well, to my kids and stuff. I guess I just wasn't certain and wanted to be I guess assured by the Town Board in the, the engineers that they have looked at them. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm sure we've looked at it. MR. HA TIN-Whitney has spent clot of time on this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Russell referred to before is Whitney Russell, one of our inspectors. He has spent a good deal of time on it? MR. HATIN-Yes, he did. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do we have a Health Department recommendation on this, one way i 0 '7 or another? MR. HA TIN-1 believe you do. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 don't see the stamp on here. Do you have the Health Department's approval? MR. SMITH-We never received one. I think Mr. Russell communicated directly with Health Department. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, on the proposed resolution here it would make a recommendation that the condition be that you would secure the approval of the Health Department. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-The Health Department has already approved the subdivision. I don't think you have to go through that with an existing building. Only when you are going to develop a new lot. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-L et me read this addressed to the Board of Health from Whitney Russell. At ten a.m., Wednesday, July 26th, I spoke with Brian Fear, New York State Department of Health. It was agreed the New York State Department of Health need not act on this because there is no feasible alternative to the situation and the noncompliance has already existed for the past twelve to fourteen years. Signed by Whitney Russell. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-To answer your question, Mr. Armstrong, I guess you can see it, as George pointed out, we went to fifty feet to a hundred feet to a hundred and fifty feet, trying to keep the seperation distance between, as our Town continued to grow, in order to maintain the water supplies... I think we're trying on our part to keep those distances as for as apart as we can. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Does anyone else wish to comment one way or the other about this project? TOM PHIL O-My name is Tom Philo, I live on 6 Brookwood Drive, Town of Queensbury. I'd like to add, I've been in the building business a long time, I've seen some problems they've had here. Is there such a thing as a grandfather's clause? When you put fifty foot restrictions and then all of sudden change it. This is for the concept of the whole neighborhood, its been laid out like this. You set a standard when this development was set in at fifty foot and then a newer development years down the line went to eighty foot. Now it is a hundred and fifty. Now they've engineered this and calculated in there so the wells were in the back and so there - is on every lot, there's a hundred or better feet... to the wells, because I went around and checked it myself. Is this grandfathered ...there's only one reason I see is the well next door and that is eighty feet now from the existing drain field. I can't see why they couldn't do the entire project. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-!t appears that the only reason we are here is that, correct me if I'm wrong, if the present situation could be repaired, we wouldn't be here. When you have to put something new, then you have to come for a variance under the regulations. MR. PHILO-He's going to put it in the exact same spot and if you replace one part of it or two parts of it, its in the some thing, I can't see why there should be any restriction. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's the interpretation of the law. Maybe Mr. Dusek our Town Attorney would advocate to discuss this with you. ATTORNEY DUSEK-1 guess first of all to answer the question directly, there is a grandfathering clause in the ordinance. The grandfathering clause though is very limited. It says that the sewage disposal system, whatever type it is, would be allowed to exist and continue but you can't alter it, enlarge it, repair it or extent it except in conformity of the provisions of the ordinance. Now if, the ordinance also goes on to say, minor repairs or minor alterations maybe undertaken without'permit. But the minute you get into a major alteration and a major alteration or repair has been defined to mean any replacement or reconstruction affecting the septic tank or the leaching facility which in this case the septic pits. If you get into that type of activity, you now must come into Mr. Hatin's office for a permit. Mr. Hatin in turn can only issue a permit as long as the new system fully complies with the ordinance. Since it doesn't, that's how this matter now goes up to the local Board of Health in order for them to determine whether or not they can waive that requirement. So its a little bit of a process that occurs here. But as I started off, there is a grandfather clause but its only as good as the system is basically. Once the system needs a major repair, people have to come here. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-The only way you can solve it Tom really, the danger to the health of the family living there by the neighbor...the determination that shows this will happen. He's been there for years and he's replacing with a more modern leaching pit on the whole 108 system...hosn't excepted anything to date and it probably won't for as long as the system exists. MR. ARMSTRONG-When the project was done, it over exceeded the project, I mean it was over built. That is why I'm saying... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 know but it doesn't meet the standards. So they have to go for the variance. Its a legal technicality only. That's for somebody who sneaks something in on us, it's not to stop Mr. Smith from putting in ...its a technicality. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is there anybody else who wishes to speak about this particular item? PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED RESOLUTION APPROVING VARIANCE REQUEST OF ROBERT & JOANNE SMITH RESOLUTION NO. 33, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Ronald Mon tesi. WHEREAS, Robert and Joanne Smith previously filed a request for a variance from certain provisions of the Sanitary Sewage Disposal Ordinance of the Town of Queensbury, such provisions being more specifically, those requiring that there be a 67' separation between the seepage pit and the well and septic system, and WHEREAS, a notice of public hearing was given in the official newspaper of the Town of Queensbury and a public hearing was held in connection with the variance request on August 8, 1989, and WHEREAS, the Town Clerk advises that property owners within 500 feet of the subject property have been duly notified, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury Local Board of Health grants the variance to Robert and Joanne Smith, allowing a 67' separation between the seepage pit and the well and septic system, and finds as follows: a. that there are special circumstances or conditions which justify allowing the 67' separation between the seepage pit and the well in that the lot size is too small to accommodate the 150' distance required; _ b. that due to the nature of the variances, it is felt that the variation will not be materially detrimental to the purposes and objectives of this ordinance or to other adjoining properties or otherwise conflict with the purpose and objectives of any plan or policy of the Town of Queensbury; C. that the Local Board of Health finds that the granting of the variances is necessary for the reasonable use of the land and that the variance is granted as the minimum variance which would alleviate the specific unnecessary hardship found by the Local Board of Health to affect the applicant, and d. Mr. Russell on behalf of the applicant has spoken to the Department of Health and they've indicated that they don't have jurisdiction over this particular situation and the Board of Health however directs that Mr. Hotin attempts to secure a letter from the Department of Health confirming this and in the event that he does not this variance is still approved. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenzo, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None PUBLIC HEARING -SEWER VARIANCE - GLENN POWELL 8:40 P.M. NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Next public hearing relates to the sewer variance for Glenn Powell. Mr. Hotin would you give us a brief background on this one? Many people in the room are not familiar with it. MR. HA TIN-The Board is familiar with this one. This is the one where you had on emergency 109 Board of Health meeting on. We have a failing system. The system did fail, we found out when we excavated it that we had a nonconforming system. Therefore to make it comply, they must install a new system. The only option here is a holding tank. We have a letter from the Town Engineer who ha-s visited the site, recommending a thousand gallon holding tank and move the required thirty-five hundred gallon tank because only the toilet does empty into this. They've also requested a... toilet. They are seeking a forty-five foot boundary versus a fifty foot boundary from the lake to the holding tank. Also a variance for year round use. I believe there is one more variance, but I, the other variance was for the size of the holding tank so ... Town Engineer there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. We all are familiar with this. We've held a couple meetings related to this. There's been quite a bit of discussion. Is there any member of the public that wishes to speak about this subject? If so, please come to the microphone, name, address. MICHAEL O'CON NOR-Supervisor, ladies, gentleman, I'm Mike O'Connor from the law firm, Little and O'Connor. I'm here at the request of Dr. James O'Keefe and his wife Mary, to speak on their behalf and behalf some of their neighbors who are adjoining owners of this particular property. I believe in fact, we're speaking on behalf of the Horowitz family, the Bylsma family, the Hughes family and the Minges family. We have a petition to present to the Board which strongly opposes the granting of the requested variance. We do believe that there is an alternative available. There is sufficient land on which to construct a conforming system. This is a request to have a nonconforming system immediately adjacent to the shores of Glen Lake. You were talking earlier about proximity to the well. You have to be aware of the fact that there are perhaps maybe a hundred to two hundred families that actually use the lake as their source of water. Some with filtration, some without filtration. I think that you have shown great concern in the past and we ask that you continue to show that concern when anybody wants to build within a prohibited area. There are certain lots that are around the lake which we would even admit are goin_q to require variances. People simply don't have the square footage, they don't have the lot depth in which to comply with the regulations as they have not been written. But this particular lot of our review, it is possible to construct a compliance system. I have not seen the report of your engineer. I would like an opportunity to see that. There may be more expense involved, if it is constructed on the back.portion of the lot. But the expense, I think, would be far out weighed by the benefit as opposed to the detrimental effect that it will have upon the lake, the quality of the water in the lake if its permitted to go close. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Mr. O'Connor, do you realize this is for a holding tank? AIR. O'CONNOR-Yes. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Nothing will be coming out of the tank. MR. O'CONNOR-Well, I also understand its an opportunity to upgrade an existing system. I have problems with the manner in which it is being offered to be upgraded. I understand that a holding tank is supposed to be self contained, its supposed to have an alarm system, its supposed to be a self shut-off type thing, as I understand which you approve so that the water system can not supply excess water to the holding tank. But you're being asked here to perhaps set a precedence for a good portion of the southerly side of the lake. This as I understand it as a variance request is something where the applicant is supposed to show that his circumstances are unique and its pertaining only to his particular lot. That is one of the qualifications. I don't think that really is true here. The whole section along which this lot is situated, at one time or another was known as I think as O'Connor's Terrace. O'Connor Mannis Terrace, something to that nature. All of those lots have a great difference in topographical feature between lakeside and the back of the lot. You go beyond this property to the east and you're going to run into the some circumstance. So you are talking about something that is not only going to effect this particular lot, a _good number of lots. I think you may have, may set an important precedence. I understand it is a holding tank but as I understand it Mr. Kurosoko, its an holding tank that is supposed to be able to be functional during the whole year and it will be the only system that will supply a place to deposit the waste from the toilet facility. If you knew the property, the Town road ends at the back of the cut that goes through the two hills. Maybe some of my people can refresh my recollection but I think as you come in along the Town road, you take an immediate right to go out to the lake. On your right is Dr. Hughes property and on the left,is Cutshall's property or used to be Cutsholl's property... You've got to go across that driveway on private right-of-way, you then have to go along the lake approximately, I think its... SUPER VISOR BOR GOS-Two hundred feet or so. AiR. O'CONNOR-No, its just two hundred eighty feet would be the O'Keefe frontage alone. There's two hundred fifty feet before you get to the O'Keefe frontage. So you can be very conceiveably going perhaps if you count the driveway back from the Town road, you could be going something like six hundred, seven hundred thirty feet. That _generally has not been 110 open during the winter. Its not maintained during the winter by the Town. The Town plow will come along and does not go into that driveway. My recollection from walking up there in the winter time is that sometimes they would plow into the area between the opening to the lake and leave it there. That would be where they deposit the snow. Maybe the neighbors can tell us more exactly about that. But it isn't something that I think is readily accessible to a truck that is going to have to pump once a month or once a week. This is a piece of property that gets rather intensive use. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Does the owner have a right-of-way to use that road? Does the owner have the ability to plow that road, legally? AiR. O'CONNOR-1 believe the owner does. But they just haven't done it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But what I'm saying, you're trying to indicate to us that it be impossible to do this, but if the owner has the right to plow it, then he could indeed hire somebody to VY plow that road and keep it open. AIR. O'CONNOR-He could. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So he could perform pumping if its required and that would be his responsibility. If he couldn't pump it, he couldn't use it because it would be shut off by the automatic control systems. AiR. O'CONNOR-We've gone through this past summer with problems and what type of response we get from what could be and couldn't be and you folks had to declare an emergency, a shut down of the system. We don't want to get back to where we have an emergency. We want to have a system that is designed and capable of working on its own. Without any maintenance because we don't have faith in this party ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 believe holding tanks are permitted under our regulations. Is that correct? MR. HA TIN-Not for year round use without a variance. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Not for year round use without a variance. But they are permitted. CIF:. O'CONNOR-We question the size of it too. I don't understand, its not like a seasonal use where you say that the system has some time during the season to recover during its non use season. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Its a holding tank... MR. O'CONNOR-Holding tank, if you need x number of gallons at any particular part of the year, I would think you'd need it all year. I don't know... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-The variance is for the water from the septic. Gray water separot- from the toilet. The gray water system still operates. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you explain to us, Mr. Kurosaka the difference between the gray water and septic waste? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Gray water is laundry water and ...water, and real dirty wo! comes out of the water closet. The only thing that is going in here from what I understoncf is the water closet. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So when the calculations are done for sizing the typical holding tank. that includes the pray water, is that right? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Absolutely. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So this is a situation where the gray water is going somewhere else which appears to be working properly. Just one toilet, is it one toilet? MR. HA TIN-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-One toilet would be flushing into this holding tank. MR. O'CONNOR-Do you have an engineers report as to the capability of the system that will maintain the stray water or are we just talking about... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We don't have to, its working. 1 1 i AIR. O'CONNOR-Well it wasn't working this summer. Something was not working this summer. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-It was the system we're talking about, the tank that we are talking about right now is the one that doesn't work according to the investigation by our Building Department. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Let me ask Mr. Hatin, do you have any evidence that the gray water system was not working? AIR. HA TIN-Right now there's two separate systems. You have a _gray water system which runs out the back of the residence, the sinks, the washing machines, they run out to that. The toilet, the single toilet in the bathroom is the only thing that runs into this existing tank now. Its a three hundred gallon metal tank. This is the system that has failed. This is the only one that we have investigated. We have examined the piping _going to the seepage pit �. in the rear, it is all intact, in fact it is fairly new piping. Mr. Powell can _give you the day when it was installed. The only system we're talking about with the problem is the one from the toilet. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do you wish to continue? AIR. O'CONNOR-Yes. I think as a second element for a requirement for a variance the applicant has to show that there are no alternatives available. I think with the square footage and the lot that they have, even though its of a different topographical feature in the lower area where he wishes to place the holding tank, it is such that a proper system can be constructed on that portion of his lot. We're not talking about an extraordinary small lot here. There's a hundred foot of frontage and there is probably two hundred and two hundredit of*depth. It is up a grade hill and will require some excavation but it would put the entire system further back from the lake and give the lake the protection. We oppose it. We don't think that the proper basis has been shown for a need and we don't think that the alternatives have been fully explored. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORG OS-Thank you. Let me, before we here from anyone else, let me ask our attorney so we can have these things in our mind. I would like the clerk to read this into the record just for the minutes too. Mr. O'Connor has indicated the items that must appear in the findings, the requirements to grant the variance. Would you indicate whether he has covered them fully and accuratelv or what you're interpretation might be? So we can be thinking about all this as we hear the rest of this. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Sure. Yes I think Mr. O'Connor certainly has hit on a couple of the requirements. I would only say that the ordinance would require you to do more though than just what Mr. O'Connor has indicated. Basically the language that the ordinance used is a little different than the language that Mr. O'Connor uses but certainly I think he is heading generally in the right direction as far as what this Board's consideration should be. In order to decide in a variance I think in the first instance the Board has to take a look at the requirements of the ordinance and determine based upon the proof that it has before it and mainly from Powell, perhaps to start with, that there is an unnecessary hardship that would deprive the owner of the reasonable use of the land, if he is forced to comply strictly with the ordinances. But in addition to that you also have to make some particular findings. First of all you have to find whether or not there were any special circumstances or conditions and you have to fully describe those that apply to the land and that such circumstances or conditions are such that the strict application of the ordinance would deprive the applicant of reasonable use of the land. This kind of, I think goes towards what Mr. O'Connor was saying with reference to uniqueness, needs, etcetera, as well as the unnecessary hardship. So looking for special circumstances or conditions of the land. The second element that you would have to find, is that the variance would not be materially detrimental to the purposes or objectives that are being sought to be accomplished by the ordinance. Or in addition to that, that this variance is not materially detrimental to the properties that adjoin this particular parcel. The third element and this is I think close to what Mr. O'Connor was indicating when he said that you had to explore the alternatives. The ordinance says that you have to look to be sure this is the minimum variance that will alleviate the specific unnecessary hardship that you find. Then finally, you have the right as the Board to attach any kind of conditions to the granting of your variance that you would deem appropriate. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Still it leaves us with some information to gather this evening. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-... the conditions are Paul that they attached a variance obtained from our Zoning Board too...that rates under the Zoning Ordinance. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Right this is a proceeding quite similar to a zoning variance. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-For instance in the special circumstances allowing one thousand gallon 112 tank then the thirty-five hundred four thousand one. That's we're talking about, the gray water being separated from the toilet waste. Thot is a special circumstance. Very unusual, very unique. Another finding would have to be related to the distance to the lake, a five foot variation from the requirement of the'ordinance. Would something such as the topography being one of those situations? ATTORNEY DUSEK-That's certainly something.,. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I've asked that question, I have visited the property, so I've got some idea of what we are looking at here. Let me ask a'question of Mr. Powell or Mr. O'Connor. You talk about the Powell property being some two hundred feet deep, It was our Indication from the special meeting that we held several weeks ago, that although the property is deep, they have yet able to comply with the regulatfans because as it`goes`deep it gets narrow and the set back from the side lines would not rheet`ou�'requlrements either, is that correct? Maybe Mr. Powell can come forward, introduce himself and answer some of these questions. MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Supervisor don't you have a map of this property? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We did Vave at one paint. I don't have one in front of me, I have a partial map, 1 don't have a full map. GLENN POWELL-Yes, my name Is Glen Powell,'RD,Bay Road. . The property is pie shape, It is one hundred foot lake frontage and It goes back two hundred feet deep through a pond? on the backside. SUPERVISOR BOR COS-Does It go to a point in the bock? MR. POWELL-Yes It does. Being a steep bank an"the backside, If you Noticed when you were up there, going back even;fifty feet would Hrs# ttrYlk ► d if feren+�e d,A01l; Its just impossible. The reason that the tank, the metal tank tHt# ?is� t there: ;going baaiC`uiti that, once it was dug up that's why I felt mdybe in time that wool??fdlter and wouid be good to out a concrete tank n there seeing it Is already,dug up. If, ohything Heeds to be ddpb.there It shouldn't have to be done by hand This Is con be accomplished#dally, as It stands Might now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Lef'M-e ask you gtiestl tl dot this m6ffimt. I'm just trying to keep this as relatively short as;we can.'- Do I recta►C l`r�t+1 ► ouw other ttlscussion that this tank could be repaired in its present condition without�helitg hepideed, that there was a concern that �,5 ar there could be added ant t 'the bock end of ii `sohl , one and gi vel or we are faced with a situation where the present system simply has Palled and will not work? MR. HA TIN-The tank Itself as much �s;we Cain tell' without doing any testing on the tank or removing of the tank for visual e,xaminatioti I1riHt6d. However, if you go to put n s pit or a tile field attached to this tank,.you can Obt'Meet the separation distances, going to be in the same situation you're in With the holding tank; : You're going to be iu, for a forty-five foot separation versus a gre6ter;distonce... SUPERVISOR BOR COS-There we'd have liquid actually seeping into the lake at some �. if we did that. '� t MR. HA TIN-Correct. The only other altertf� l y# h..O'Connor does bring up is to place on the back of the property, however`you wouid.hc►ve,to do the topography and survey to if the system could actually fit there and(Nova)ni Idea If it will or not right now. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-1 think we checked on that the day we hod the other public hearing and you would need a variance of the set back there also from the side lines. MR. HATIN-I think you would have to have somebody stake and lay,it out and actually see if it would fit or not, the required system. Again you're looking at, If you're just going to go with the toilet, its a less of a design then If you put the total flow of the house because here we have gray water that is going Into what appears to be a functioning system. COUNCILMAN K UROSAKA-My recollection, Its'wooded back there. MR. HA TIN-its all steep grade, all wooded. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Powell is there anything else you wish to add before we let Mr. O'Connor come back. h yy �'ea Vr COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 have something I would like to ask Mr. Powell. On your back line, do you know how wide that is MR. POWELL-Yes, it comes to a point. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-An actual point? MR. POWELL-Yes, it does, pie shape. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Your width at the lake is one hundred feet? MR. POWELL-Yes. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-One hundred feet by two hundred feet... is nothing. Its not very big. MR. POWELL-No it isn't. Three quarters of an acre. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Looking at this plot, the steep slope really starts at the driveway, doesn't it? Or part way up against the house? MR. POWELL-The system... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The system is up here, this is all steep in here. Does it flatten out at the top of the property? MR. POWELL-No it don't. It runs down to mud pond, the pond in back of it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Mr. O'Connor your turn again. MR. O'CONNOR-Did the Board indicate that they don't have a map of the entire property of the applicant? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We have a map in front of us showing the portion in question, showing the gray water, the existing metal tank. But we did see at our last meeting open to the public the map of his whole property. MR. O'CONNOR-As I understand it, there is sufficient space behind the camp to actually put either a full system or a regular, we object to a couple of different things. One we object to the placement. Two, we strongly object to the use of a holding tank where you have sufficient ground to build an actual seepage pit or septic system. Its simply a matter of building it _ up there and its going to be gone forever, because you're not going to be rebuilding it every year. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Unless it fails. MR. O'CONNOR-Well if its built properly its going to have a good life there... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-The holding tank, Mr. O'Connor, its retained. I mean one of the big concerns is protect the waters and protect Glen Lake. Yet its a holding tank, its, I mean I just don't understand what the... MR. O'CONNOR-Well we really have a great doubt as to the ability to service on a year round basis because... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-You don't have a problem with the holding tank, you have a problem with servicing the holding tank. MR. O'CON NOR-Servicing it year round basis because of the access along that road of about six hundred feet. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Yes, I'm familiar with that. MR. O'CONNOR-Also because that road really isn't built for heavy commercial trucks and you're going to now be bringing in a truck to pump that. ✓ COUNCILMAN POTENZA-How many people come in to pump their septic systems? MR. O'CON NOR-Occasionally, now every two weeks, every month or every week, depending upon the system. How many bedrooms are we talking about in the house? 1 think we're talking about four bedrooms. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is four bedroom. I­n 01 ONN(R-! ,..a !d stand you'd be ta!kiny then ebout ni!/'pina that thousand gallon 114tank at least once a week. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's not what the applicant claims. I was concerned also. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-About every two or three weeks, depending on the toilet that is used. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-May I interject and ask Mr. Powell a question? Mr. Powell, do you have a water saving toilet in the place? MR. POWELL-Yes there is. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What is the gallonage please? MR. POWELL-It is brand new and its two years old. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What is the gallonage? MR. POWELL-About three and a half gallons. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Three and a half, thats not as efficient as the new ones. There are new ones down to one point six. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-The state requirement is the three and a half gallon. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I realize that but I do know that in touchy situations people are going to the one point six. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Charlie Adamson is selling that point too. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea and alot of people are using them now around lakes. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I'm considering putting a couple in,in my house. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Eight flushes a day represents a thirty gallon flow... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 would guess without getting too personal, I would guess ten or twelve flushes a day for a four bedroom house that was fully occupied wouldn't be unreasonable. MR. O'CONNOR-Isn't there an engineering report as to what the four bedroom house would produce? You're acting as the Health Board. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right. MR. O'CONNOR-I'm wondering if you have information before you to actually act. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think we do. I think our Building Code Department has said the normal standard for a normal four bedroom house is a thirty-five hundred to four thousand gallon tank. That's why the request for the variance. Am 1 correct? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That includes gray water. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That includes the gray water. Are we correct? MR. HA TIN-It may be more than four thousand but it does include gray water. I can go to my office and check, I don't have the book right here in front of me. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 think the minimum is four... MR. O'CONNOR-But you're also asking for a variance to use a holding tank on a year round house opposed to seasonal. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-As a reasonable alternative because to reconstruct the system where It is, is not a good alternative. To move it up on the hill appears to be impractical if not impossible. MR. O'CONNOR-Usually when you talk about hardships you talk about dollar and cents proof. — I've not heard any of that to indicate why, what we suggest as an alternative, is too expensive. i think your record is lacking the information that you need...you make the action that you want to make. Your counsel can give you the guidance that he thinks is appropriate. You don't have a map of the entire property of the applicant in front of you. i 115 SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You were not privileged to be at the last meeting where we did have all this information. MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Borgos, I'm talking about the record before you this evening on which you are making a decision. Not heresay or information at another meeting... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The other record is public. Let me check with our attorney. Does that have to be reintroduced tonight, all of that? ATTORNEY DUSEK-1 think, first of all, my understanding is that there is an engineers report. Is that correct? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 believe our engineer did visit the site. We've got a letter. -- ATTORNEY DUSEK-Okay and there is a recommendation made by the engineer. I think that should be certainly, well first of all let me back up for a moment. I think that everything that was previously considered by the Board should certainly be made a part of the record. I would agree with Mr. O'Connor on that. Second of all, there is a requirement under our ordinance that there be a map of the entire property which I don't know if we have. I guess from side conservation with Mr. Hatin it looks like we only do have part of a map. So I would suggest that there be an entire map created that is consistent with the requirements of the ordinance. Apparently what we have is a half or three quarters of the property shown on this map. In answer and response to that I think that the Board would want to basically make sure it has all of the evidence it needs before it would proceed. My understanding was that the Board...(turn tape)... discuss all of the evidence that is presently before the Board during the process of gathering it, one of the ways is this public hearing itself. MR. O'CONNOR-1 would question what your engineer had before him, he made his report to you too. Did he have an actual map of the property with the topographical features shown on it with the improvements shown up on it so that he would know... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 believe he actually went into the field and was there twice. MR. HA TIN-Twice. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you read the letter? Lets ask the Town Clerk to read the letter, please? Before we're done we have to read the petition into the record also. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-At your request we have made an engineering determination of the required size for a holding tank to replace the existing septic system at the reverent location. It is our understanding that this holding will serve only the toilet and the bathroom. All other fixtures in the bathroom as well as the fixtures in the other portions of the house are reportedly are piped to a separate septic system. Based on this and on the fact that Mr. Powell will be required to install a water-saving toilet, we recommend that a thousand holding tank be utilized. This will provide for the same frequency of pump-outs and relative storage capacity as will be required in the proposed holding tank amendment to the Town's Sanitary Code. We also recommend-that Mr. Powell be required to comply with the proposed Sanitary Code amendment for all other aspects of the design and installation of the holding tank. Please give me a call if you have any questions regarding this matter. Very truly yours, Rist-Frost, Tom Noce. (on file) SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-That answers your question Mike, what safety devices are. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 have a question whether Mr. Noce is referring to the three point five tank or he's referring to the one point six tank. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's a good question. I'm just making a note of that that if at some point this goes through I would think we would want to have as a condition the very smallest available unit, a one point six or two gallon water saving toilet to be used just to reduce the number of tank ... If it goes in that direction, at.least we'll make a note of that at this point. Would you read the petition please? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-We, the undersigned, hereby object to the granting of the variance fe ve3ta� ny Gfen E. Powell and Pegino Powell. One, th"t arc no sryoor:ial carxrlitlane r,r r.irr.urnt► ,,. that deprive the applicant of the reasonable use of this property. Two, the applicant has a narrow lot, like many other lots on Glen Lake, however the applicant has a lot deep enough to meet code requirements. Three, it is not that the applicant does not own sufficient lands, he apparently simply does not choose to use same. Applicant should be required to meet all set backs. Four, there is an alternative solution. Place the septic system behind the existing 116 structure and pump to same. The applicant requests two variances. A, one as to placement. strut applicant has a four bedroom house. Its use is intensive. Where 8, the second as to size. The app licant is talking about a holding tank, do you have more guests than at a lake. Since the app you are not talking about a afour system thousand gallon tank for a four bedroom houseeyou nneed t tank is a tank. If you need a four that size for the full year. This is ,ses.r Who will menfo��e same., The'�arroow aoccess road to have to police the use of the pre to the premises represents a hazard during winter ae to Howlong t?pNistory has shvW raises be left unattended by the pumper without damage this is a non-owner occupied parcel and the onPicaoing to b ) l e herefo�a short stay, so me not should be considered. The tenant says, y 9 concerned about water quality". Thy landlord an owneohas nooch ice, here This is not the case of an undersize proper set backs can be met and should be enforced t o prevent further pollution of Glen Lake. There have been two of these submit... ., a fi f _. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Let me ask our attorney. The ppetition i r raises access me interesting question, 1 have not read it before. May we as the Board may we consider legally the ability of the rt cof de ision and Or is thatsomething beyond day or per week it has to go in th.. e, P scope of this group. ATTORNEY DUSEK-No, 1 think you can consider all factors that may come into play in the use of the system. I might also further add that, to the extent that this Board feels oauyfur t er information is necessary beyond what you have before you tonight, you are also emp to request that information. Such as, if you feel that it is worth while to explore any one of the alternatives suggested to you, you certainly have that power to request information• SUPERVISOR BORGOS-If we were decide that we don't want t dec'de�his evening,awould, but if before we're done tonight w it be appropriate to simply adjourn this meeting until tomorrow for instance? Or would we table this to a future date and have to give future notice, what is the procedure? ATTORNEY DUSEK-Well I think: that the public hearing was scheduled for tonight and if what was the Board's choice they could after having heard everyone, close the public hearing, thereafter the Board could appr,apriately table the matter until some future date for a decision making process. The ordinance do�,s allow a thirty day time period from the close of the public hearing in which to makc a determination. If the Board were going to enfertpin further information on the project it may be worth while adjourning the matter with keeping the public hearing open as another alternative to actually clo (l the entire matter down and _ starting the thirty day cloc.< ticking. COUNCILMAN MONTESvir we make no decision, it passes in thirty days? ATTORNEY DUSEK-The ordinance just indicates that you have to make a decisic : thirty days. 1 do not believe, I don't think there's any automatic approval pro,,,;, the Board did not, I presumr? the applicant if he so chose to take legoi Board to make a decision. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dave can I ask you one question about usage, water What is a four bedroom house normally use a day? MR. HA TIN-Rating on a hundred and fifty gallons per bedroom per r, for a four bedroom house, you would be looking at six hundred galloi COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But that's gray water and everything. MR. HA TIN-That is total water consumption. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That is total water usage. Okay. From that, lets assume it is an average house, six hundred gallons a day, what the ,,.. that the daily flow going into the holding tank would be forty gallon MR. HA TIN-You could assume that, correct. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-...find out about how many times they i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Or if they have a two gallon tank, its ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-You take to figure on average three gallon water saving toilet, you divide that into forty you get aboW thirteen flushes a day. 1- '`' MR. HA TIN-One thing I'd like to ask the Board to consider, everybody is aware of the problems, the neighbors are here obviously because of this, we have a system right now that is open, it is flowing into the ground water and my concern is that it may become more of a hazard if we prolong it much longer. I think the Board has to make some type of a decision. Whether it be a temporary holding tank, which would be my suggestion, temporary holding tank looking at the alternative of installing a conforming system where the septic tank that will be used as a holding tank could be turned into a septic tank with a pump station and pump it up the hill to a legal system. If that is an alternative that is feasible. The system that exists there now is a problem for me and I have a problem with dealing with it. I'm not happy with the system that is there right now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are you saying that the holding tank either as a final solution or in a temporary sense, if the holding tank was installed, the same tank could be used as a pumping station to another system? MR. HA TIN-Right. It could be used as a functioning septic tank as part of a system. SUPER VISOR BOR GOS-I t wouldn't be an expense and... MR. HA TIN-It would be used either way. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-You just want to put the controls in now until you make a decision. MR. HA TIN-But right it would eliminate the problem we have. We have an open hole right now, raw or septic water running out with some sand around the tank. The day I was there, there are mosquitoes forming in there and to me this is some what of a problem. I think the Board should take that into consideration... COUNCILMAN MONTESi-Just so that everyone understands. If you were to take this thousand gallon tank, you were saying initially, call it a temporary holding tank until, to make this a legal system, in essence what you're saying is a grind pump probably would have to be installed or just a pump? MR. HA TIN-Just a pump. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You would have to run a line up into the bank and establish a leaching field or a septic pit. MR. HA TIN-Correct. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Only as a pumping valve, you use it as a dry pump, you don't want to pump the water. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Right. So the difference between a thousand gallon holding tank and making this system legal, is a pump and three or four hundred feet of tile. MR. HA TIN-Right. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Boy, I wonder why we're working so hard to screw up the environment. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Dave, what do you know about the quality of the land up in back, about its ability to act as a leach field? MR. HA TIN-I know its, in dealing with a problem down the road, from what I've been told by the person who is going to do a pert test, it's a fast perc soil. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-It is a fast pert ? MR. HA TIN-Extremely fast perc soil. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I've asked Mrs. York, comparing how steep the land like that sort of close to a lake are there going to be other regulations he would have to meet? LEE YORK, Senior Planner-Basically Betty, he would have to maintain a certain amount of siltation fences and things like that...as far as maintaining erosion control measures. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dave, a leach field is three or four feet wide, seven or eight feet deep, crushed stone? MR. HA TIN-The field itself, the trenches are usually two feet wide with the pipe running down the center, maximum sixty feet long. For a four bedroom house you are looking at, I believe its almost three hundred feet of tile field is required. 118 ,� ►t W` Wit rl,T PLINEY TUCKER-Two hundred and fifty. MR. HA TIN-Two hundred and Fifty. Pliney knows It better, he's had it every day. ,.> Vi, p t (rrIp 111Irr;04 ±ors of sire 04 hi oil 0 dlsebiufitx ..;SUPR,VISQR.BOR GOS- e have to have two hundred and fi f Feet and they're two foot wi deg Ptr►er�af�es anal t�ey �s ated�i�► �r� el � t f � k, "Oil 14 41 a � I+ 0411;0 MR. HA TIN-Six feet between the center lines of the ... SUPERVISOR BOR COS-So you'd have to have four plus lengths of sixty feet-each, two feet wide separated by six feet... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-But you're talking about doing the whole six hundred gallon aren't Your MR;.ttA`TIN-Yes. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We're talking about a forty, fifty gallon ... MR. HA TIN-That's the other thing too, here you're talking toilet... COUNCILMAN MON TESI-You'd probably need preclobly less. MR. HA TIN-Unless the Board wants to require that'the system, it Is, does appear to be functioning, be tied into this. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-On the lake I like the holding tank rather thou have it seep Into the ghbund. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1t seems olot safer to me. SUPERVISOR BOR COS-What we know'on Lake I George. We have essentially, we have floating holding tanks on L oke George.- A// the_cgbin cruisers have sealed heads?,-there holding tanks that are right out In the middle of the lake that'everybody drinks Frotiy: ; Iratis what has been iftsignated as being the best dvaliable systeh!i ,6ieh,Lake should be prdtected no less than Lake.George. Lets dsk soM6 wrmore questidnsr a question` Wd biked by Mr:'O'COnrtor before Mr. Rowel/ about the findnoial burden involved:}` f+ `Indlaates W6,:should havosome kind of finding that to require you to'do what h0)`M' d1,yV Ild be"done;=would be�o very great expense versus this still large but relatively less ex, ens/ i s nn you'have some dolfar amounts, do you Dave an estimate.what It would oast to bull a eonforrhingsysterrr MR. POWELL-No, I don't Steve, Actually,/ figured priobably a ho/ding lank would be the answer 6thdrwise there is so much`digging that.has try be dbh6'and o grade;;fleld..Would have to be put in in that area. So I`was lust going'h0 1 no,dank and I could say thrti''that. would cast probably five thousand dollars. SUPER VISOR BOR COS-Five-thousand dollars for the holding tank. , MR. POWELL-If It had to be excavated, then It would probably be around fifty thousand. SUPERVISOR BORCOS-Flftythousand. What would, the cost of pumping this thousand gallon tank? Its over a hundred dollars... MR. POWELL-Per month It would be fifty dollars. SUPER VISOR BOR COS-That's a good deal. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-A thousand gallon tank, just fifty bucks. SUPERVISOR BOR COS-1 had an estimate of a hundred and twenty five, l think, for mine. MR. POWELL-I do work for the gentlemon. .I dd'backhoeing and bulldozing. S UPER VISOR BOR COS-So you are going to get a discount. r COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA then you cart g�ei a,truck.in theret MR. POWELL-Yes. Its been plowed for three yrs . .and they have oil trucks coming in, I don't, I have electric heat, but there is oil", "Tludki going In and out. There's been crones on the property also. Not on my property but"d th6froad. , o- 119 SUPERVISOR BORG OS-Cranes for lifting have been in there? MR. POWEL L-Yes, on that road. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Lets see if anyone else who wishes, any Board member have other questions before we go back to the public. We're trying to take this a bite at a time rather than listen to everybody and then try to remember all the topics that are raised, all the issues. Any other member of the public wish to speak? A TTOR NE Y D USEK-Mr. Supervisor, I'm not a member of the public but I guess I am in one respect, I did have just a couple of questions for Mr. Powell. Mr. Powell has given the Board some estimates as to value. Are these estimates, estimates that you had generated yourself or have you contacted other people to get these estimates? Do you have something to offer in the line where these come from, these figures? MR. POWELL-Yes, I work in excavation and I know approximately how many yards that has to be removed to have a drain field in that. I'm sure it would be around fifty thousand. ATTORNEY DUSEK-How do you calculate the fifty thousand? MR. POWELL-The removal of so many yards... ATTORNEY DUSEK-Do you have an idea of how many yards? MR. POWELL-I do have it written down, yes. To get it down to a level where it have to go from the tank to ... pump up station. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Okay that is without a pump up station? MR. POWELL-That's without a pump up station. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Yet do you have an idea as to what the cost factor would be with a pump up station? MR. POWELL-No, I don't. A T TOR NE Y D USEK-And the five thousand dollars that you indicated a holding tank would cost you, what is the basis for that? -- MR. POWELL-That would be installing the holding tank and the other and the covering or whatever of the installation of the thousand gallon tank. ATTORNEY D USEK-Where do you get the figure five thousand dollars from? How do you know it would cost you that? MR. POWELL-Well I've put them in before. A T TOR NE Y D USEK-You do this in a line of work? MR. POWELL-No, I don't. I do work with a person, I do excavation with them and I know what it costs him, I have dug the holes, i don't install the tank. ATTORNEY DUSEK-How do you know what the cost of the tank itself would be? Have you checked the prices of tanks? MR. POWELL-Yes I have. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Who have you contacted? MR. POWELL-I've contacted Duke, Kubricky and Millers, Fort Miller. ATTORNEY DUSEK-1 have no further questions. Thank you. DR. HOROWITZ-My name is Dr. Horowitz, I live on Birdsall Road, and I'm going to speak to you from three different perspectives tonight. First let me say that I am quite uncomfortable being here while speaking as a neighbor. I don't like doing what I am doing. I live approximately sixty feet away from the property in question. As a resident there, especially in view of water samples which came back which 1 was made aware of yesterday, I could tell you that and this heresay, Mr. Hatin will bear me out, Dr. O'Keefe's property had an unacceptable coliform count, my property had a normal but high normal count and the two properties in the middle were normal. Which means the water is going away from the action and towards us. We have kids who bathe in this water and we ourselves, the adults are bathing in this 120 water. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-You are talking about the lake? DR. HOROWITZ-Yes. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Lake water not the water in the ground? DR. HOROWITZ-Bathing in Glen Lake. We know that based on the history and I can tell you that for the last three winters, that road has been plowed out, but it concerns me that a truck is going to have to get in there, not when it is eighty-five degrees but when there's ten feet of snow on the ground. 1 don't know this for sure but I just don't know if there's clearance for a truck to come in there, maybe every three weeks, maybe every month, and we're not talking for now, we're talking to the year five thousand possibly. I ask you on an emotional level to put yourselves in our position and rate the responsibility that has already been demonstrate here. I'm going to shift gears and speak to you as president of the Glen Lake Association. Glen Lakers have in the past and including tonight have affirmed that they want the health regulations regarding the lake kept strict as possible. Bearing in mind of course that we can be inflexible and have to be some what reasonable at all times. 1 draw your attention to the 1986 Glen Lake technical water study where there was a survey done and of all the possible problems relating to Glen Lake, the problem of septic and sewage was number one in these peoples minds. That was published in 1986 so obviously it took place even before then but even tonight at a meeting that was reaffirmed. The Association that has taken against easing the health rules in regards to the lake because many people use that lake as their sole source of water. We feel that it would be extremely dangerous to set a precedence here tonight. Switching gears again, I speak to you as a specialist in intestinal diseases. I can tell you that Interitis which is the sickness caused by ingesting foul water, could be anything from a mild inconvenience to a devastating and very dangerous problem. We have to keep that in mind. In my conclusion I just want you to keep in mind that this is not a variance where people are asking to move a garage two feet closer to a property line and then that is the end of the problem. Where talking about a dynamic situation if not a dynamic problem which will possibly go on forever. Every month for the rest of lives a truck is going to have to come in and suck out this system and whether this goes on or not, is not going to be your problem after tonight, possibly tonight, but we the neighbors are going to have to monitor this thing, and that is not our job. This thing should be self sustaining as of the time that we leave this room. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Dr. Horowitz, before you get too far, you said some people use this as sole source of water, are people still drinking Glen Lake water? DR. HOROWITZ-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Does anyone else wish to speak about this subject? RICK BYLSMA-My name is Rick Bylsma, I live just two doors down from this property. I have a real problem with the use of the property. You say it is a family, four bedroom house. We have a situation here where we have four young men living there. A thousand gallon tank does not hold up for fifty young people in there at parties every weekend. I've lived there through out the winter, I've seen this, with beer cans all over my property. I have real problem with a thousand gallon holding tank. Its not going to do the trick. That truck coming in and out every week. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This is where we are getting into an area of the law where we have to be careful. MR. BYLSMA-Very careful, yes you do. But we do have an unusual circumstance, but we must address that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-None the less, its a four bedroom home and just like with any other four bedroom home, we don't monitor how many people are guests for a Saturday night party. So we've got to be careful. MR. BYLSMA-Okay, the problem we have is you're looking for a variance for a thousand gallon tank, where realistically you require a four thousand gallon tank. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Four thousand if it includes the gray water. In this case the gray water is totally separate. I know the impact of beer on the system and so forth so I'm aware of the fact it may be flushed more often on Saturday night. MR. BYLSMA-Okay and the other problem is how long will that gray water system.. nobody has ever checked it. I don't think Mr. Hatin has. How long will that keep working? Has that been installed properly? 121 SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is a preexisting system that is grandfathered. MR. BYLSMA-I still have a real problem with my children swimming in that lake. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What we're trying to do here is preserve everybody's rights. Ownership rights, usage right's, neighbor's rights, trying to gather all the evidence. MR. BYLSMA-Okay but you're still setting a precedence for everyone else around Glen Lake. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-I f we go ahead and approve it. MR. BYLSMA-Yes, if you approve it. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We can accept with conditions. MR. BYLSMA-And if there is a holding tank, I'd like to see it stricter and get something in there that will work. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 don't know, myself if I lived on Lake George I prefer a holding tank then a system that seeps into the ground. Dr. Horowitz mentioned stuff going into the ground, he pumps that tank out and its going away. MR. BYLSMA-If its the right size. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Otherwise its going to shut off anyway. If it doesn't than it is going to shut off according to the kind that we approve now, and it will shut his water off to the house. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-it shuts off the water automatically. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We have just passed an ordinance where you can't use the kind of holding tanks in this Town that you used to be able to use. The new ones are the kind that shut your water system right down when they fail. MR. BYLSMA-1 agree, I agree a hundred percent. A thousand gallon tank, the number trips that truck is going to make back and forth, and its a dirt road. I repair that road every year, to my own expense. A heavy truck coming in and out of there all the time, I'll be repairing twice a year. I don't think it is my burden. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm not sure that is something we can consider. MR. BYLSMA-1 also believe that a four thousand gallon tank, that truck would be in there not quite as much. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-Four times less. MR. BYLSMA-Exactly. I don't like the dirt all over my docks, its a dirt road, if the Town wants to pave it, that's great. SUPERVISOR BORG OS-We can't. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-A thousand gallon came on the recommendation of our engineer. Our engineer recommended a thousand gallon tank, that is where a thousand gallon came from. MR. BYLSMA-Then two years down the road when the gray water fails, you're going to take that out ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-The gray water is something else now. You're talking entirely different situation. When that comes up that will be handled by who ever is sitting here, the Board of Health, in that case. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There's alot of things we'd like to do but we can't because of the laws. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If the system is working we can't consider it. AIR. BYLSMA-I don't see why you'd want to lower the standards. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We're not lowering the standards. 122 COUNCILMAN MONA 11A N-We're not lowering standards. MR. BYLSMA-It's a burden to me to have that truck going in and out of there when I've of guests of my own, I'm sorry. It sounds like it Is going to be once a week. g COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-It depends on the Conditions we put on it. MR. BYLSMA-The conditions that I live there, I know what the conditions there, you people don't. Let your children swimthere. You see the afficain and out all right the time. Try to make it so its nice for everyone. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-You can't deny Mr. Powell the use of his property either. MR. B YLSMA-No, I'm not saying that at all. COUNCILMAN MONANAN-You really can't use this to address a social problem. I mean I know what you're trying to do. MR. BYLSMA-It's not a social problem. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You really can't use this to address a social problem. I mean you can't address who people are renting their.house to or how that house is being used for this type of an ordinance, this variance. MR. BYLSMA-Okay but we know how much is being used. You're using statistics, you say a four bedroom house will use just so much water. We have proof because we live there, we understand that it requires a much larger opening, that is the only point I am trying to get across to you people. Again,I live there. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I think that listening here, we've been of this for on hour, I think the neighbors would agree that there tends to be"some, let me summarize it here, there tends to be some agreement that the concept of a holding tank makes some-sense in terms of not allowing effluent into the lake. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Or into the ground. ; COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Into the ground. There's some real conceeh,6.1%to,the site. l mean, we're saying four thousand, Mr. Powell Is sttyln#d`thousand, vtir.engineer Is saying a thousand. It appears to be that If the concept of a holding tank was agreed try by"=thls Board, that it ought to be more than a thousand Well should.lt be"twd ar'twefity-five;hundeed in order to assure us of a safety margin. f COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-°What did you hire air ehgIneer for then, It you're going to make your own mind up? I'm an engineer and you hiredirie to do sarnething and you make up your mind as a layman and said I'm wrong, I'd be verry:rniffed If you paid meto do lt. I'wouid be. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well, then this 13O&O'ought to act on what you're saying. You've got an engineer's... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-One way oe the other. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You've got an engineer's report that says a thousand gallon... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-And you also M1take the other stuff into consideration. I don't think the site of the tank is a consideration. /,think what we're talking about, the other things that we're talking about. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Our attorney has Indicated to us that based on Mr. O'Connor's message that we really should to be in full compliance-with our regulations have a map of the full property. The back half of the pie shape piece with the trees, I guess that's about all we need, should be presented before us. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Yes, there's certain crrl`eria�In`the ordinance that would Indicate exactly what has to be on that map, what Indications Woft have to be there, Including a legal description which I would recommend is before the Board befo a tiny actlon is taken on, on this matter. A lso I think I would like to i6dc,6mmend to.the Bagrd that yotl'to ftl dee requesting that the applicant furnish you with some sort of written ddcUn°tentation as to cost factors so that you hove that before you as well so that's another 64ih6ht you can consider. i think as It has been said, there is more than just the Issue"of th#`ttrt'1ti3dnd gallon holding tank. There is many factors that will probably come into,p, rn your decislan. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Now I ask a question. Dove Hotin makes a passionate plea as an 123 enforcer for this Town to eliminate a problem of raw sewage on the ground, we're going to sit here with our thumbs and say we're not going to make a decision until we have a map, until we have this, until we have that. We're going to make Mr. Powell put a thousand gallon tank in the ground that may not do the job ultimately. So how do we resolve this? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Ron, I think we can address this by doing just what Mr. Hatin asked us to do. Approve the thousand gallon tank on a temporary holding basis until, to prevent any further seepage in the ground. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Suppose the rest of this Board says they want a four thousand gallon tank, the hell with the engineer, we want to see a four thousand gallon tank in the ground. So now what have we done, assume the liability? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Where are you going to hang the four thousand gallons on? You can hang the thousand gallons on the engineer's report. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-For those of you who are waiting for the rest of the meeting, we apologize for the delay. But these things happen, everybody's entitled to their time here. MR. O'CONNOR-What I don't believe is that your Building Inspector has just reported to the Board of Health that you've got a health problem and ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's why we are here. MR. O'CONNOR-You haven't jumped out of your seat saying, why don't we have an order saying that they not occupy the premises. Why was the order lifted that told them to stop using the premises? Why is it, that is not a proper consideration for the granting of the variance. I have a great problem living on the lake with somebody using that as maybe a suggested and a reason to justify a variance that not otherwise justified. I want no pollution in the lake. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There's still no evidence Mr. O'Connor, object me if I'm wrong, there is no evidence of any seepage whatever into the lake. MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Hatin, did I hear you just speak about something, groundwater, nobody knows where the groundwater is from the lake. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-He's talking about an open hole. MR. HA TIN-Mr. Borgos, you are correct in the fact that we do have no evidence that it has seeped into the lake. (tape changed) The Board of Health action to function as it is...its not the best of set ups and I'm not happy with it. I would strongly say that to the Board. To me, to allow a temporary holding tank to mitigate this circumstance right now going into the ground and possibly creating another problem down the road, while you decide what you want to do with this, to me, a mitigating circumstance and would eliminate a problem for me that may arise in the future. I don't want to deal with this problem anymore, I've had it. This problem is really ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There's a whole bunch of us on that list. MR. HA TIN-1 just want to see something mitigated so that I can be happy with it, the neighbors may not be satisfied with it, but again I think it eliminates a problem. I think this Board has to act on it. We didn't have an emergency Board of Health for no reason on this. I wouldn't request it if 1 didn't feel it was a problem. I feel that you have to address it even if it is a temporary basis with a temporary approval. I think something has to be done. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Just as a point of information to the Board, I guess I get the sense that everybody seems to think there's long periods of time here that would be necessary to gather, to do a map and to gather the necessary information. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 wouldn't think so, I think tomorrow is a possibility. ATTORNEY DUSEK-1 think it could be as early as that, that that information would be available. _ I would indicate to the Board that you could consider that the additional information that is being requested could in fact be furnished to you on a very short basis at which time you can make a final decision concerning the matter. MR. O'CONNOR-1 would have no objection on behalf of the people that I speak on behalf of, if the Board allow this holding tank on a temporary basis. I don't think you're going to get the information that you need within twenty-four hours. I think you're talking more than just simply drawing some additional lines. We've talked about percolation tests and everybody says that they don't know what it is. Dr. Horowitz who is some sixty feet away has established 124 a system within the last couple of years working on a good basis. I think that the back of that property will sustain the operating system. MR. O'CONNOR-1 would very much like the opportunity to talk to Mr. Noce to see exactly on what basis he made the report. Did he discuss or consider the alternatives? The evidence that you have before as far as dollar and cents cost... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You would like from a legal perspective, I'm sure. MR. O'CONNOR-From a legal perspective, you talk about heresay, self-serving. When he began he had no evidence as to what it would cost him and then all of sudden within a minute he has an estimate of fifty thousand dollars. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Mr. O'Connor, would you and your people agree to allowing him to put a thousand gallon tank in, a holding tank temporary until we can make a final decision? Because if we go to a place where he can pump it, the thousand gallon tank would be perfectly adequate for a pump ... MR. O'CONNOR-If we put some time limitation on it so that their temporary doesn't become permanent...if you said sixty days, ninety days... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-When is our next meeting? How about in two weeks? MR. O'CONNOR-Lets have some real tests. If the back of the property won't sustain a good operating system, we've got to back down. I said when 1 began my presentation, there are certain properties on the lake either by size or by ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-How about the first meeting in September? MR. O'CONNOR-That would be fine. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-It gives us a month. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Hatin doesn't want us to wait a month. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No, I think the request is to bring it... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I'm not talking about, I'm talking about using a tank temporary as a holding tank for a month to alleviate the present possible public health hazard. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are you talking about putting the tank down on the driveway or putting it up on the hill where the three hundred gallon tank is? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Putting the tank, I don't think is your problem. I think what they are worried about is the, where does the effluent go and the pumping of the tank. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think there is a practical problem. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 don't think five foot is an objection. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In this particular case... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I get the indication they worried about where the water is going to go and how does he handle the effluent when he pumps it. Putting a thousand gallon tank, isn't going to hurt anything one way or another. MR. O'CONNOR-A thousand gallon tank would not hurt anything. What we are worried about is a permanent tank if it's not accessible during the winter on a regular basis. The amount of traffic that is going to be created servicing that particular tank and we have some real concerns as to the sizing of that tank. If your ...says he's got a four bedroom ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-That's what I'm asking you, to take a month for us to ... f MR. O'CONNOR-1 have no problem with that. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The question that I ask is that if we grant temporary permit of a thousand gallon tank, how long is going to take to get that tank in the ground? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-You take a month for the next meeting ... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I mean how long will it take to put the tank in? 125 : COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-To relieve Dave's problem now? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-In other words are we going to alleviate the problem next week or two days or a month? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Let me ask another a different question. Is it possible to put the thousand gallon temporary tank down at driveway level rather than having to excavate the hill and put it up in there? If that isn't the final solution, you'd be able to a least haul it away. Otherwise you'd have to connect it and reconnect it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think what George is talking about, putting the holding tank permanently but if he only gets a temporary permit for it, then you use the holding tank as your base to take it, pump it up to the ground level. So its going to stay there no matter what. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So we would permit the permanent installation of a temporary tank to either then become permanent or to become the pumping station for another system. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Steve if you want to make it larger, what do you do if you want to make it a two thousand gallon holding tank, you put another thousand gallon ... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-My question is how long will it take after this Board approves the temporary approval to put the tank in? I heard Mr. Powell say he had to do it by hand, the excavation. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 thought the hole was already there. MR. POWELL-Yes it is. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-You've got to get the old tank out of there. MR. POWELL-The old tank is in there and that the only reason that there's a problem right now with mosquitoes and whatever that Mr. Hatin says. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Alright, how long will it take you to pull the old tank? MR. POWELL-Two days. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-You'll probably have to take your tenants some place for the time that you're doing it. MR. POWELL-Well I'm not going to have tenants there after the first of September. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-How long is it going to take you to pull the old tank and put a holding tank in there? MR. POWELL-Probably three days at the most. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Dave you don't want him to wait until after the first of September to do this, you want him to start tomorrow. MR. HA TIN-1 would like to see something happen fairly quickly. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So I think, could your tenants move some place for two or three days when you do that work? MR. POWELL-Well for hook up or whatever it just takes six hours. 1 mean I can pull that out, have it dug out, pulled out in six hours and they're not there during the day. I'll make sure they won't be there during the day. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Could you do this in this week that we're in right now? AIR. POWELL-Probably next week. This system that's there is not leaching into the lake and never has or hasn't gone over. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But its open. MR. POWELL-Not completely open. There's sand and whatever like Mr. Hatin said. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well apparently Dave is concerned about the health problems with that and the condition it is now, so I think... MR. POWELL-It never has leached into the lake. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-He's not worried about leaching, he's worried about the openness of it. So I think his concern is, how fast can we get atleast a temporary solution to it and that is what I'm asking you. What commitment will you make to this Board as to how quickly you'll get a temporary solution in there? MR. POWELL-One week. 12s MRS. MONAHAN-One week from today? RESOLUTION REGARDING,REQUEST FOR SEPTIC VARIANCE- GLENN E. POWELL RESOLUTION NO. 34, Introduced by Marilyn Potento who moved for its adoption, seconded by Ronald Mon tesi. COUNCILMAN POrENZA-Mr. Supervisor, can l recommend that we have a resolution introduced that a holding tank of a thousand gallon be piacecl on said property on or before Friday the 18th of August and that that holding tank can be'lr► use and a decision would remain as to whether It would become permanent or a new septic;system be installed by,October 1st of 1989 or our first meeting in October, 1989; with the stipulation'that the size of the toilet be a one point six gallon toilet, with the stipuldtloh that we receive 0 mop of the whole property, that we get a dollar value from a reputable septic system installer as to how much it would cost to install a septic system up on the upper part of the land, and also the additional cost and advantages of having more than a thousand gallon holding tank. SUPER VISOR BOR COS-Would you agree to add to that, that we would like a copy of the 1988 Glen Lake Technical survey. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That's fine. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-1111 second that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Introduced and seconded. MR. TUCKER-Mr. Borgos, can 1 address the Board before you do this? SUPERVISOR BORGOS--Just a moment please, we're in discussion stage now. Public hearing is still open, I haven't closed that,at all. We're not going to vote on this until the entire public has been heard COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Lynn, when yousold,one'week, lets see, was'It a week from Friday? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Well, Friday, it would be Friday the 18th would be a week from this Friday. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Okay, did you put the words, in operating condition? I want to make sure its not only in but its operating. . COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No but I'd be delighted to do that. in operating condition:.. SUPERVISOR SORGOS-To Install and operating.' COUNCILMAN P. OTENZA-And operating by Frlday,'August 18th: COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 assume the October first date is set so that we get a month for... it would give them a month... - SUPER VISOR BORCOS-That proposal hasn''t`beef seconded as COUNCILMAN POTENZA-1 give a month'td'v the Information that we need. SUPERVISOR SORGOS-We're open for more discussion and more public comment now. It would be tough If we saved all this for the end and then try to piece it together. Mr. Tucker, name and address again. MR. TUCKER-Pliney Tucker, Ward four,`Queensbury,' Technical question. Is this a new system? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-No. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Yes. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Its an existing house and a new disposal system going into the existing house. MR. TUCKER-I'm not ... about the house, the septic system is a brand new system that he's putting in? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-A new system as a replacement for an older system. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Not a repair, a replacement. AIR. TUCKER.-We have a sanitary code in the Town of Queensbury. I have heard gray water mentioned here tonight. If this gentleman puts a new septic system in that unit up there, gray water has to go through the septic tank. No ifs, ands or buts. I build houses. I used to have gray water go into a twelve hundred gallon dry well by itself and the toilet into the new septic ...and this Town Board told me I could no longer do that. I believe that this gentleman has got to conform to the sanitary code as its established todov. 127 SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Even his old system is grandfathered and not failing, you say you believe would have to comply? AIR. TUCKER-He is putting a new septic system and our sanitary code says that gray water will go through the septic tank. SUPERVISOR BORCOS-Let's interrupt for a second. Mr. Hatin is that correct? MR. HA TIN-What Mr. Tucker is saying, I would say he is seventy percent truth. The overlying question here, I guess its what you'd call a gray area, is whether or not this gray water seepage pit has to comply with the new codes or not. As I said it appears to be functioning. We have no proof otherwise that its not. What Mr. Tucker is saying, if the system had failed, where they had two separate systems, both had failed, the new system would have to go, the gray water would have to go through the septic tank. This is a question that has been before this -- Board more than once already. Does this seepage pit in the back have to be tied into the system or not. The attorney's interpretation is, as long as it functions, it does not. That's where I would disagree with Mr. Tucker. If the attorney is right. It's your fault... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-He never makes mistakes. MR. TUCKER-Oh yes he does. 1 still believe that it should have to go through the septic system. Now another thing comes to mind. Big headlines in the newspaper, I believe this Board owes the residents down on Lower Warren Street. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's correct. AIR. TUCKER-And required three families to move out because the septic tank was seeping through the ground. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It's a totally, totally different situation. Related to a septic problem but totally different system. Totally different situation. AIR. TUCKER-Whots the totally different situation? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We had an accumulation of solids and liquids on the surface. We had a rotted metal cover, someone had fallen through and been injured already. All kinds of problems different and distinct from this problem. MR. TUCKER.-What is leaking out of this? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Nothing is leaking out. MR. TUCKER-There is nothing on the ground? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What is visible now is visible in the hole that was excavated to see what was done there, to see that there was a three hundred gallon tank. There has been nothing leaking around the sides or out of the top that we are aware of. MR. TUCKER-Alright. In otherwords he could cover this up and comply? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Yes. SUPER VISOR BOR GOS-Cover it up and you wouldn't even know it was there. MR. TUCKER-And you firmly believe that this, the gray water doesn't have to go through this septic tank being a brand new one? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Our technical advisers are indicating that. MR. TUCKER-Will you get the information to me showing me where, this point? Can you do that? MR. HA TIN-What is that ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-He's asking about the grandfathering of the separation of the gray water. MR. HA TIN-Its not specifically addressed Pliney. What it says is that, Paul may want to read it to him directly. ATTORNEY DUSEK-1 think maybe to answer the question, you look at the section of the ordinance, there is a section in the ordinance which allows the continuation of preexisting systems. Now the question becomes, obviously if we had only one system here, it would be a, very easy question to answer. But in this particular case we have two systems, they are not connected, at least as for as the evidence is that I'm aware of. If you look at that, if you look at the grandfather clause which says that systems will be allow to continue, and you go to the definition of what an individual sewage disposal system is, which is basically 128 it says, means a complete system, a piping tank and other facilities for on site collection and treatment disposal of sewage. There are two complete systems, so each system becomes grandfathered under the ordinance, by operation of the definitions that are in the ordinance. MR. TUCKER-Do you have the information there about a brand new septic system? What does it say about brand new septic systems? ATTORNEY DUSEK-Well there's no question I think that a brand new septic system would have to fully comply with the entire system. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Thats why he said it wasn't a brand new system. MR. TUCKER-Why isn't it brand new George, you're replacing the old one? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Not to the gray system. s, SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We're into an area that probably should be debated for a long time. COUNCILMAN K UROSAKA-1'm going by the recommendation of the lawyer and the Building Department. MR. TUCKER-Pardon. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We pay those two people over there to give us opinions and that is their opinion. MR. TUCKER-I'm asking their opinion. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-11ve designed systems before. As an engineer I've done this. MR. TUCKER-1 understand that. What's this got to do with the situation? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-What the situation right now, Pliney, is that we're basing what we're saying ... our legal counsel and people from our Building Department saying this is the way it is. You can do that. MR. TUCKER-I'm not questioning what you're doing. But I'm questioning that the final ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 haven't made a decision yet. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We're still gathering information. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Until we get added information. MR. TUCKER-What was your resolution Marilyn? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-My resolution was to make a decision. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We want the added information to make a proper decision. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. O'Connor seems poised to make a further statement. MR. O'CONNOR-1 like the record as it is. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 want to make sure everyone has an opportunity to speak. JOHN SAL VADOR-hly name is John Salvador. I didn't come here tonight to address this issue but I think I have some information that might be helpful to the Board. We have been operating a holding tank on Lake George. This tank is a one thousand gallon conventional septic tank. This tank is pumped out each week, Friday morning at seven o'clock. So we get one weeks use out of this tank. It has never been in over flow condition. There's probably never more than three quarters full. This tank receives the following discharge. We dock sixty boats. These boaters have twenty-four hour access to two toilets, ladies and mens. Each with one point six gallons flow, showers. We pump out boats into this tank. We have a snack bar of the bathing beach where we run a little fast food operation from nine in the morning until four in the afternoon. Our lodging guests from fifty-four units use it. Our boating clientele from sixty boats use it. That tank isn't receiving more than nine hundred gallons a week. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak? Any other Board member wish to say anything else before we take a vote on the motion before us? The motion, to remind everyone, was to permit and actually require the installation of what would be called a temporary holding tank until such time of the final determination could be made prior to the first meeting in October, not later than the first regular Board meeting which would be the second Tuesday of October. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think maybe so that we can make that decision that first meeting in October, we might want to add a time prior to that where this information has to be to the Board. 129. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, we'll propose a time. Would you like to have the information to us by the first meeting in September, the first regular meeting? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Thats too soon, I don't think ... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-The scheduled meeting is October 10th. SUPER VISOR BOR G OS-Ho w about the second meeting in September, the fourth Tuesday? COUNCILMAN PO TENZA-The fourth Tuesday of September would be fine, Mr. Supervisor that I would like the additional information delivered to the Board members. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Is that okay with the person who seconded the motion? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Yes. It also may give Mr. Powell and the neighbors an opportunity to see what a thousand gallon tank holds in terms of time. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We'll check with our attorney once more before we have a vote on this. Is there anything we're missing? A T TOR NE Y D USEK-Just before you take a vote, can we ask Mr. Powell on the record if he agrees to this system of setting things up. MR. POWELL-Yes I do. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Powell agrees for the record. / believe we are ready to vote. MR. O'CONNOR-May I ask one question? The temporary placement will be at the forty-five foot setback? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Yes. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-1 believe its forty-five because to require it to go back another five feet means tearing down some trees and ... MR. O'CONNOR-1 want to make sure there's no misunderstandings... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Mr. Powell, its at the forty-five foot setback? - MR. POWELL-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Correct, that was my misinterpretation earlier. MR. O'CONNOR-Some place in your comments, did you also ask the applicant to supply with you percolation tests? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 don't think that appear in the resolution. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No I did not. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 suggest that be part of your ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you agree to add percolation tests? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Yes, I'll agree to add percolation tests. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Its been introduced and seconded. Thank you for calling that to our attention. Are we satisfied? ATTORNEY DUSEK-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are we ready to vote? We are ready to vote. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None wiii , ;, 5,S �tCt,: UtiCl.�tO��� �j 13 U ta�oi,� j3tit in tenrl o r�n6 Ito - .there.� Il he t;vo liners, ►nstec�tt nj � � ' r, lrP(� ',fi�rt�n1► 9 dr 6 therm i ilj e a v' 1 o 190411,ats;'4h 'pert roe m thin" a u �rn �rerc�iPnnii# xtrrri. t.,.,T?fer !III c ret�re bn ift t t r, s tlH ifst t jr i e.ss' rrnc f y t 9 y a14 'F t the 6 urE � d��r�Who bohttid thl.� i� h�i 0i � �� ... hr f I ;�:Y „ ij ► e r 4lttlr i z1 '! ► fill whr► '0 �1<1s1lf } � i� �4 . i, ed RESOLUTION NO. 35, Introduced by Marilyn �'a enza who moved for its adoption, second by Ronald Montesi. RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjourn and enter Regular Session of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Kurosaka QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD OPEN FORUM Presentation by Harvey Raymond for the Independent Living Center, a not-for-profit organization servicing the disability. Made request from the Town Board to establish a committee that would recognize and advise the Town for the special situations and conditions that the disable require in regards to planning and building within the Town of Queensbury. Town Board agreed to the concept of an appointed advisory committee speaking as a recognized committee for the community but has no legal standing, with the goal of putting.their recommendations into policy. NANCY PORPORA, Queensbury-Submitted petition to the Town Clerk and Town Board members regarding the watershed property and requesting that the watershed property off Potter Road remain zoned ten acre lots. Would like to know where the proposal stands at this time. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Its currently in litigation with the City of Glens Falls and its currently zoned 10 acre. We're discussing options and alternatives with the City of Glens Falls but I'm unable to explain in detail because it is in litigation. The Town Board on the record and officially is supporting the present zoning of ten acres, park land recreation. Noted that the City of Glens Falls are the owners of this property. PATRICIA WELLS, Jenkinsville Road, Queensbury-Would like to know the position on the Queensbury Landfill, Ash Center, Recycling Center, whatever. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Noted that the Trash Plant is a fact. In addition to the Trash Plant, a place is needed for ash, for sludge and for so called by pass materials. We also need a recycling system. As part of that proposal there's a joint county committee, Washington-Warren County Committee studying a landfill site. The engineers have recommended one site of five hundred or more acres to be located somewhere around here. After numerous studies and research the engineers came back with a list of ten or twelve best sites in terms of engineering capacity. Before we got a copy of that list, I made a pled that Queensbury not be taken off that list. The engineer's recommendation was to take us off because we're over a principal aquifer. 1 asked them to please consider doing more research and studies before they take us off the list because we have to have a place somewhere. The proposal under the new Park 360 DEC regulations calls for full compliance with at least a double liner system with a leache collecting system and processing of the collected water. If that is done what would be created is essentially a big swimming pool. But instead of one liner, there will be two liners, instead of one bottom, there will be a couple of bottoms, and then something to collect what goes through that before it goes to the next level. But very expensive engineered professional system. Thousand times better than what is there now. My reasoning is,been that if what is there now has shown no detectable pollution, something many times better, should show even less and less than nothing should be nothing. There's further reasoning behind this in that what goes there would be the residual of what wasn't burned, what wasn't recycled, what wasn't reused, what wasn't composted, really very little of what goes there now. I do not support the ash going to that location. I'm not nailed to that particular site. I feel that Queensbury has an obligation some where in Queensbury, That appears to be a good site for alot of reasons. Characteristic near main highways, accessibility quite good. Relatively little density as for as the population is concerned. Those are all positive features. I believe that if the landfill came to Queensbury which would be cost saving device, if it came, part of the cost of siting that landfill, should 131 and must be the extension of the Queensbury Water supply system to all homes within at least a mile of that site, at the expense of the agency operating the landfill to be connected to the homes with a subsidy of fifty percent of the operating cost of the water. The Town Board does not have the ability to site the landfill. Its entirely possible DEC will look at us, laugh and just go the other way. This would be developed in small cells, a cell would be filled and covered before that another cell would be built. I think it should be looked at and considered. We've got to put it somewhere, we can't keep pushing it off on everybody else or we can't afford to truck it a hundred miles. MRS. WELLS-1 don't want this. Will the neighborhood people have a say in this? I want the chance to have all of my neighbors have an open quorum on this before it's handed to us. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There will have to be public hearings, not conducted by us but conducted by the County or whatever agency is established. You'll have the opportunity to attend those. —_ There will be all kinds of SEQRA reviews, Environmental reviews, Economic reviews, Sociological reviews. We're just at the very beginning of this. We're probably looking at two to three years or maybe longer before a site is selected and approved. The chances are only maybe two percent that this site will be taken. MRS. WELLS-Your position is that you'd be in favor of this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I personally would be in favor of this site provided all those constraints and conditions were there. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Suggest a neighborhood meeting devoted to this topic. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I am more than willing to, if the Board will agree with me, call a meeting, everybody attend. We can then report the results of that meeting to the official people studying this. MRS. WELLS-Can we get started on this? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Suggest after Labor Day weekend. MRS. WELLS-Agreed. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Suggest that you call your County Supervisors and invite them to this meeting. They're the ones that are going to make the decision, not this Board. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There are five Supervisors from Queensbury on the County Board, you should invite all of them to attend. It may be better if you have a group call the meeting and we attended. Or we'll call the meeting, however you would feel better. Why don't you get the neighbors together and think about that and let us know how you would like the meeting run, we'll set a date with a suggested location. JOHN SAL VADOR-Own and operate Dunham's Bay Lodge, North Queensbury. Referred to the proposed Wastewater Management Plan of the Lake George Park Commission. Concerned with the Park Commission getting involved with the land use business, getting into the registration, licensing, the permit process, the enforcement process. To me this is conceptually wrong. The Park Commission are a group of people who are political appointees, highly political appointees, not very knowledgeable in the technicality of things. This is grossly unfair to the citizens of our Town. What can we do? i think what has to be done is, we've got to get back to Albany and then enabling legislation has got to be changed because in the mean time they're marching ahead, they mean business and they're playing for keeps. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This is a very difficult situation. The proposed legislation came out several weeks ago and I sent onto Mrs. York and Mr. Hatin for their comments. I think they were relatively satisfied with storm water concerns but quite unsatisfied with wastewater. The Park Commission is proposing to do lake wide maybe unnecessary if we are fortunate enough to be able to go ahead with our sewer system. Unfortunately with the State enabling legislation as the case of Adirondack Park Agency, there's a few other State agencies, we have little or no say. We can at some point construct a resolution from the Town Board setting forth our objection or agreement depending on how the other Board members feel, and send �. that officially to the Park Commission and the Warren County Board of Supervisors. MR. SAL VADOR-We've got to get to Albany and we've got to change the Park Commission enabling legislation and get them out of the land use business. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you like us to adopt a resolution, send it to everyone including the Governor and all of our State Representatives? MR. SALVADOR-What can you do for us at the County level? 132 SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-You've got one vote, one person with sixty-nine votes. This is a difficult issue. MR. SALVADOR-It's a highly political issue, that's al/ it is. Thank you.. OPEN FORUM CLOSED 11:15 P.M. RESOLUTIONS RESOL UTION TO APPROVE MINUTES RESOLUTION NO. 428, Introduced by George Kurosaka who moved for its adoption, seconded by Marilyn Potenza. i RESOL VED, that the Queensbury Town Board Minutes of July 11 th, 20th, 25th, 27th and August — 1st of 1989 are hereby approved. Duly adopted this 8th day of Augu. t, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenzc,, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mrs. Potenza (7-25-89 & 7-27-89), Mr. Montesi (7-20-89 & 7-25-89), Mrs. Monahan (8-1-89) RESOLUTION TO RETAIN PROFESSIONAL SERVICES OF EDWARDS, WILLIAMS, MCMANUS, RICCIARDELLI AND COFFEY, P.C. RESOLUTION NO. 429, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Marilyn Potenza. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has determined that there is a need to provide auditing services to the Town of Queensbury for the years ending December 31, 1989 through 1991, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has determined that there is also a need to review its annual report to the State Comptroller's Office, which is required to be filed by February 28 of the year following the close of the fiscal year on December 31, and WHEREAS, Edwards, Williams, McManus, Ricciardelli and Coffey, P.C., have offered to render professional advisory services to the Town of Queensbury for each of the above-stated purposes at a cost of: Review of Total Annual Report Audit Fee 1989 $ 920 13,860 14,780 1990 965 14,550 15,515 1991 1,000 75,275 16,275 as more specifically set forth in their letter of July 13, 1989 to the Town Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury, a copy of which is presented at this meeting, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Queensbury hereby authorizes the Town Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury to retain the services of Edwards, Williams, McManus, Ricciardelli and Coffey, P.C., to provide the following services: I. provide auditing services to the Town of Queensbury for the years ending December 31, 1989 through 1991, and 2. review its annual report to the State Comptroller's Office, which is required to be filed by February 28 of the year following the close of the fiscal year on December 31, and 4BIE 4T F 04kT"E4k RESOLVED, that the fee for services rendered by Edwards, Williams, McManus, Ricciardelli 133 and Coffey. P.C., is approved in the amount of. Review of Total Annual Report Audit Fee 1989 $ 920 13,860 14,780 1990 965 14,550 15,515 1991 1,000 15,275 16,275 the payment of which shall come from Account No. A-0551320440, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury is hereby authorized to sign and forward for processing and payment, any and all bills for services rendered in accordance with this resolution upon receipt of properly completed vouchers. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION TO INCREASE SCOPE OF SERVICES - REGARDING COMPREHENSIVE LAND USE PLAN RESOLUTION NO. 430, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Marilyn Potenza. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, by resolution no. 205 of 1987: retained Frederick J. Holman Associates of Rochester, New York, to assist in the preparation of studies of land use in the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, Frederick J. Holman Associates has assisted in preparation of the Comprehensive Land Use and the background information leading to the document, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury wishes to increase the scope of services - to be provided by Frederick J. Holman Associates to include his attendance at the public hearing on the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and provide such background information as is appropriate to describe the development of the Plan, and WHEREAS, Frederick J. Holman Associates has offered to provide said services for an amount not to exceed $1,500.00, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury wishes to increase the scope of services to be provided by Frederick J. Holman to include his attendance at the public hearing on the Comprehensive Land Use Plan on Thursday, August 17, 1989, at the Queensbury Activities Center, Bay at Haviland Road, Warren County, New York, and provide such background information as is appropriate to describe the development of the Plan, and BE IT FURTHER RESOL VED, that the fee for said services shall not exceed $1,500.00, such fee to be paid from the Master Plan Account No. A-225-8020-473. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION FOR STATE AID FOR ASSISTANCE IN DEVELOPING A LOCAL LAND USE PROGRAM RESOLUTION NO. 431, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Stephen Borgos. 134 WHEREAS, Chapter 53 of the Laws of New York of 1989 authorizes State financial assistance to Adirondack Park towns and villages for the implementation of local land use programs developed pursuant to Article 27 of the Executive Law. WHEREAS, development of a local land use program typically includes the following general elements tailored to a community's needs: community survey, natural resource studies, socio-economic studies, community issues and goals, land use plan and regulatory devices. NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby designates Lee York, Senior Planner as the development administrator and zoning officer for the purpose of the consultant performing the following specific planning tasks. 1)referrals of variances and other actions, 2)review of code re uirements with prospective -- applicants, 3) assistance to planning and zoning boards, and 4 record keeping at a state share cost of $5,000. RESOLVED, that the Town shall enter into an agreement with the development administrator to undertake the administration of a local land use program, and it is further RESOLVED, that Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury be and hereby is authorized and empowered to execute in the name of the Town 1) a Memorandum of Understanding with the Adirondack Park Agency providing for the proposed use of local planning assistance funds, 2) a consultant agreement with a private consultant with such provisions as the Supervisor may deem acceptable and all necessary applications, and other agreements which he deems necessary or appropriate to implement and carry out the purposes specified in this resolution. Discussion held, agreed to table until further information is provided. RESOLUTION TO TABLE RESOLUTION NO. 431 OF 1989 RESOLUTION NO. 432, Introduced by Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Kurosaka. RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby table Resolution no. 431 of 1989, titled "RESOLUTION FOR STATE AID FOR ASSISTANCE IN DEVELOPING A LOCAL LAND USE PROGRAM". Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING DESIGNATING GLEN LAKE AND ADJOINING LANDS AS CRITICAL ENVIRONMENTAL AREAS PURSUANT TO §617.4(H) OF THE R ULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE DEPT. OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION RESOLUTION NO. 433, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Kurosaka. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is authorized to designate specific geographic areas within the Town of Queensbury as critical environmental areas pursuant to the rules and regulations of the Department of Environmental Conservation adopted in accordance with the authorization and directives of the State Environmental Quality Review Act, and WHEREAS, much of that area of land designated as GF-15 and GF-18 on the official New York State Freshwater Wetlands Map for Warren County known as Map 28 of 31, Glens Falls Quadrangle, and lands lying outside those designations and adjacent thereto within 250' appec to be exceptional and unique character and a critical environmental area, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is considering the designation of the said area as critical environmental area as the aforesaid area may meet criteria contained in 4617.4(h) of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations of the State of New York for the Department of Environmental Conservation as having exceptional or unique character covering one or more of the following: A) A benefit to human health; 1 . 135 B) A natural setting (eg fish and wildlife habitat, forest and vegetation, open space and areas of important aesthetic or scenic quality), C) Social, cultural, historic, archaeological, recreational, or educational values; D) An inherent ecological, geological, or hydrological sensitivity to change which may be adversely effected by any change; and, WHEREAS, in the event that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury should designate the aforesaid area as a critical environmental area, any unlisted action which takes place wholly or partially within or substantially contiguous to the critical environmental area would be considered a Type I Action pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, and would therefore be an action or project that would more likely require the preparation of an Environmental Impact Statement and in any event would require that a Long Environmental Assessment Form be filed and a State Environmental Quality Review conducted before any governmental board or agency may grant approvals or permits for actions or projects occurring within said area, and WHEREAS, pursuant to said rules and regulations of the Department of Environmental Conservation, prior to designating any area within the Town of Queensbury as a critical environmental area, a written public notice must be issued and a public hearing held, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury shall meet and hold a public hearing at the Queensbury Activities Center, Bay at Haviland Road, Warren County, New York, on the 22nd day of August, 1989, at 5:00 p.m., for the purpose of conducting a public hearing to hear all persons interested in the subject thereof, in person or by way of agent and to entertain any comments concerning the proposal to designate much of that area of land designated as GF-15 and GF-18 on the aforesaid official New York State Freshwater Wetlands Map for Warren County and lands lying outside those designations and subject thereto within 250' as a critical environmental area, such areas more specifically described as-follows: All that piece or parcel of land lying within the 400' contour line circumscribing that freshwater wetland identified as GF-15 on the official New York State Freshwater Wetlands Map for Warren County, known as Map 28 of 31, Glens Falls Quadrangle, and all that land lying within 250' of the said area circumscribed by the said 400' contour line, except that the said piece or parcel of land shall not include any part which extends beyond the easterly side of Route 9 and the southerly side of Glen Lake Road(the contour lines referred to herein - are those as shown on the New York State Freshwater Wetlands Map and the U.S. Department of Interior Geological Survey Map identified as SW 14 Glens Falls 15 - Quadrangle - 1966), and All that piece or parcel of land lying within the 400' contour line circumscribing that freshwater wetland identified as GF-18 on the official New York State Freshwater Wetlands Map for Warren County, known as Map 28 of 31, Glens Falls Quadrangle, and all that land lying within 250' of the said area circumscribed by the said 400' contour line, and BE IT FURTHER RESOL VED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury is hereby authorized and directed to publish notice on two occasions, of a copy of this resolution in the official newspaper of the Town of Queensbury and to post a copy of this resolution on the sign board of the Town of Queensbury, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that any and all owners of property within the area to be designated as a critical environmental area shall be mailed a copy of the notice published in the newspaper pursuant to this resolution, together with a letter from the Planning Department of the Town of Queensbury. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None LEE YORK, Senior Planner-Would like the Board to consider looking at incorporating the entire shore line of Glen Lake as a critical environmental area. 136 COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I would like to see how the Glen Lake Association feels about designating the whole shore line before we make a decision. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Recommend holding this public hearing and Mrs. York make her suggestion then to see what kind of response we'll get from the residents. MRS. YORK-1 would like to formally request Mr. O'Connor to bring this to the Association and talk to them about doing this. MR. O'CONNOR-My response to Lee, I have no objection to what she has suggested and I would be glad to bring it to the Association. PETER CARTIER-Speaking as a member of the Advisory Committee, I'd like to strongly support what Lee is suggestion, designating the whole shoreline of Glen Lake. MRS. YORK-Received two applications for the Assistant Planner position, submit copies to the Board members and would like within the next two weeks to conduct interviews. RESOLUTION APPROVING PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS CONCERNING QUAKER ROAD TRANSMISSION MAIN RESOLUTION NO. 434, Introduced by George Kurosaka who moved for its adoption, seconded by Ronald Montesi. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has held a public hearing and found and determined it to be in the public interest to provide for an increase and improvement of the facilities of the Queensbury Consolidated Water District in the nature of replacing of approximately 10,000 feet of existing 12" Water Transmission Main, with a new 16" Water Transmission Main located along Quaker Road, and WHEREAS, preliminary plans and specifications were presented to the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury and upon review of said specifications, the Town Board of the Tnwn of Queensbury authorized an advertisement for bids in connection with the work necessary to complete said improvement to the Queensbury Consolidated Water District and acknowledged that certain changes were being made to the some pursuant to the recommendations of the Town Attorney and the Town Superintendent, and WHEREAS, a final and complete set of plans and specifications has been presented to the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves of said plans and specifications and the transmission of the same to all bidders and other interested parties. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION TO TRANSFER FUNDS RESOLUTION NO. 435, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Kurosaka. WHEREAS, the Queensbury Water Department wishes to transfer funds because of the need to hire a temporary data entry person, and WHEREAS, sufficient funds do not exist in the Administrative Miscellaneous Contractual Fund, Account No. W12758340440, for the hiring of a temporary data entry person, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, to transfer $5,000.00 from the Engineering Technician Fund, Account No. W 12 ';' to the Administrative Miscellaneous Contractual Fund, Account No. W 12758340440, to r: the cost of hiring a temporary data entry person. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None 1317 RESOLUTION TO TRANSFER FUNDS RESOLUTION NO. 436, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Kurosaka. WHEREAS, the Building and Grounds Department wishes to transfer funds, and WHEREAS, sufficient funds do not exist in the Office Equipment Account, Account No. A 1451627.201, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, to transfer $4,000.00 from the Service Contracts and Warranties Fund, Account No. A 1451622.406, to the Office Equipment Account, Account No. A 1451627.201 Duly adopted this 8th of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION TO TRANSFER FUNDS RESOLUTION NO. 437, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Kurosaka. WHEREAS, sufficient funds do not exist to provide certain services for the Highway Department, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, to transfer funds in the following manner: $5,000.00 to A3053310416 - Signs From A30553370440 - Miscellaneous Contractual, $300.00 to A3255010405 - Books, Publications & Subscriptions From A 3255010409 - Expense Fund, and $2,700.00 to D 1655130206 - Tools Fund - From D 1655130440 - Machinery Contractual Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION TO TRANSFER FUNDS RESOLUTION NO. 438, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Kurosaka. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, a previous resolution, No. 328, on June 13, 1989, authorized the transfer of funds from lallocated Insurance to Capital Construction, and WHEREAS, the Director of Accounting Services has advised that the resolution should be rescinded and a new resolution passed to direct that the funds be transferred to another account, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that Resolution No. 328, of 1989, is hereby rescinded, and BE IT FURTHER RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby directs a transfer of $30,000.00 from A2351910440 (Unallocated Insurance) to A23-5-9950-910 (Interfund Transfer, TOB). Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: 138 Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None REPORTS Town Clerk-July report-on file Building & Codes-July report-on file RESOLUTION TO ENTER EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 439, Introduced by George Kurosaka who moved for its adoption, seconded by Betty Monahan. RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby enter into Executive Session to discuss pending litigation. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION TO APPROVE AUDIT OF BILLS RESOLUTION NO. 440, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Kurosaka. RESOLVED, that the Audit of Bills appearing on August of 1989 and numbering from 1904 to 2577 and totaling $582,372.86 be and hereby is approved. Duly adopted this 8th day of August, 1989, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None On motion, the meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULL Y SUBMITTED, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY