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1997-11-06 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING NOVEMBER 6, 1997 6:00 p.m. MTG. #51 RES. 419-421 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR FRED CHAMPAGNE COUNCILMAN BETTY MONAHAN COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN CAROL PULVER TOWN BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT COUNCILMAN CONNIE GOEDERT TOWN OFFICIALS CONTROLLER HENRY HESS KATE DUBOIS WATER SUPT. THOMAS FLAHERTY DEPUTY WATER SUPT. RALPH VANDUSEN DEPUTY WASTEWATER SUPT. MIKE SHAW HIGHWAY SUPT. P AUL NAYLOR DEPUTY HIGHWAY SUPT. RICK MISSIT A ASSESSOR HELEN OTTE LANDFILL SUPT. JIM COUGHLIN BUILDING AND GROUNDS SUPT. CHUCK RICE SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE OPENED THE MEETING RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 419.97 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Executive Session to discuss Union Negotiations. Duly adopted this 6th day of November, 1997 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Turner, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Champagne NOES: None ABSENT: Mrs. Goedert RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 420.97 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Fred Champagne RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive Session. Duly adopted this 7th day of November, 1997 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Turner, Mr. Champagne NOES: None ABSENT: Mrs. Goedert SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I would like to say thank you very much for those of you that are here from the Town, Department Heads, I greatly appreciate that. Thanked Mr. Hess for an outstanding job over the course of the last three or four months to put this together and I think the Board would echo that. It has been a great budget year and I take great pride in the fact that we are at a zero increase going in and I would expect and anticipate that it most likely will stay at that level. I wish I could say that for the County budget we also have made the recommendation here at this time that there be no increase in elected officials salaries and I know that, that does not necessarily please everyone but that is the recommendation of the board at this point as we go forward. Requested that Mr. Hess make the presentation of the budget. . . PUBLIC HEARING- 1998 TOWN BUDGET NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Introduced Mr. Hess. CONTROLLER HESS-What we have done is we have taken what is in the book and tried of consolidate that put it on slides as we can grab your attention, most of you have seen me before, I am Henry Hess I have been back in the corner there for a few months, and I welcome you all here. Everybody probably knows that Kate DuBois who is my right hand in the accounting office. When we put this budget together of course the board set the tone for it, gave some direction I consider, I would like to tell you I am a visionary for this and Kate was the luminary as far as putting things together and that would lead you to believe that probably I did the drawing she did the coloring on these slides and really she did most of the drawing and most of the coloring. What we are going to do is go through the budget booklet just pulling out information that we think is important as to the significant parts of the budget and some of the real fundamental basic parts of the budget and just sort of call to your attention these things that we think are really going to effect the taxes, revenues, ..next year. The premise this budget is based on given from the board, several months ago, to be dealt with and I share it with the department managers when they prepared their initial budgets they followed very carefully. Number one, do not reduce services, the Town is providing services. . next year. Number two look for ways to become more efficient, that does not say to look for ways that we could necessarily cut costs, to cost costs wasn't, I know that is a term we like to use but that can conflict with number one to maintain services. So, we look to ways to do what we do more efficiently, maintain fund balances at a safe level. Your town has a very health fund balance a safe fund balance I should say I use the word healthy I am talking about very safe levels. We have identified levels that we think are safe levels depending on the nature of the fund and where the fund balance should be the board has instructed that we try to maintain those and to the extent that taxes should be impacted they have asked the fund balance to be used to level taxes so there will be no taxes increases this year where possible and we have been able to do that. The first slide if you are referring to a budget, the booklet we passed out there is a first page of it inside a big tax chart and what we tried to do is just, take this down and give you the basic tax consideration that we have here. You really have six major taxing areas in the budget, you have your general fund you show what the taxes were for 97 and 98 and what the increase is and what the percentage of increase is and the level and what the tax rate is for the two years and what percent of increase is. As you can see under the three major taxing areas that are not related to lighting, sewer and water it is a flat tax rate for the general fund and decrease for the fire protection and the emergency medical funds. So, I will make a couple disclaimers here the tax rates are estimated I am sure that you hear this every year, but at this stage the tax rates are estimated based on assessments that we have in our hands at this time and of course they are subject to change right until the time the taxes are levied. As I understand this, my first year here, as I understand it the taxes are actually calculated by some guy over in Warren County, sits in a dark room wears a visor, has absolutely no sense of humor and his greatest passion in life is his calculator. So, we really have no control over the final calculation. The next slide if I can find the copy of it here is really just a summary of all the funds their expenditures, very much an over view. I wish I could have made this a little simpler for you to see you will see a page like it, in fact if you would take all three hundred pages of the book that you have in front of you it really, all three hundred pages consolidate down and this is really nut shell of what the budget consists of. Expenditures, these are budgeted expenditures this is all your revenue sources, all the green on this chart here refers to the revenue sources, this is what we take in for fees and charges, you can see that most of that falls in the water districts and your general funds there is a schedule you will see just a little bit later which tells you where this comes from in the general fund. The cemetery fund the selling of lots and providing funeral services. Highway does do some work for the general fund and has some fee services its provides so we reflect that in there. Borrowing, the Town does have adequate fund balances and there is very little borrowing that has to take place to fund our normal operation. This particular budget it was decided by the Town Board that they wanted to budget a major piece of equipment in the Highway fund this year, for funding purposes. Non property taxes primarily in the general fund that consists of sales tax and mortgage tax and Highway that is chips money. Earnings on investment, there are fund balances that we expect to generate about one hundred and ninety one thousand in revenue next year. These are interfund transfers in and out you see that they balance there and they need to be accounted for to make this thing work, they really don't necessarily effect how you have to look at it. But if I did not show them in there it would not make a lot of sense but there are transfers into a fund and transfers out of a fund and as you can see they just balance out. All the expenditures are accounted for in all the colunms. This is what we expect to appropriate out of the fund balance to fund next years operation and this is the amount that would be levied in property taxes. With all that said where does it go? What we have done here is taken the general fund and strafed the uses of the money that we spend into the major areas where we spend it. As you see the Highway gets the bulk, the lion share of the money, thirty six point two percent of all the money spent in the general fund is spent on Highway and transportation and related expenditures. Payroll taxes and employee benefits, let me go back to that and say that, that includes Highway administration, snow removal and any of the money that comes out of the general fund and into the Highway fund that expenditure is understated to the degree that there are other sources of revenue in the Highway fund such as chips money and whatever would be included in there. But, this is expenditures from the general fund to support the highway operation. This is what we spend in payroll taxes, nine percent of the budget goes to payroll and employee related benefits. Shared services consists of Building and Grounds, centralized computers, mailing things such as that where we all share we are services of the general fund rather than isolate the matter in different departments we call that a shared service and the bulk of that is Building and Grounds. Staff is your legal services, engineering, personnel, elections, .. . finance is separate, culture and recreation is Harry's Department, Parks and Recreation, Marilyn VanDyke's department, Historian and a couple other small areas. Finance consists of Darleen's department, the Assessor's Department and the Controller area pretty much. John Goralski's Department, Home and Community Services, Town Board the Judges and the Supervisor's Office fall under this category and then you can see that they get smaller. There is one hundred thousand dollars for capital projects and the other miscellaneous ones. The next one is just simply a graphic expression of what you just saw. Highway is the bulk administrative services and then we lumped a few other things in there so the office functions that are served in, in the town hall are lumped into this category and then you have payroll taxes, culture and recreation and you can see the small wedges, debt services is a very tiny portion of what we do in the general fund, very much debt free the only debt outstanding in the general fund now it relates to the Town Court renovation which took place several years ago. The other expenses that you saw were general fund expenses there are expenditures for all funds this is the Town budget lumped together and it is by, this is by function. We did not break it down by departments here we broke it down by function. Salaries and wages for all departments town wide represent twenty eight percent of expenditures. Payroll taxes are another ten percent on top of that so your total payroll expenses for the Town are about almost forty percent of town budget, almost forty percent. Equipment is a very minor part, we will look at this just a little closer in a few minutes only four point nine percent, other operating expenses is really mostly as you can see here in the operating funds the water department, the landfill, sewer that is where most of your operating expenses occur but town wide it results in about forty percent of the expenditures. Debt as you can see it is very small in the general fund are non exempt, non qualifying debt if you want to call it that related to the operation of the sewer and water facilities is the bulk of it that represents ten percent of our total budget and that principal another five percent in debt interest, and then again to make it balance we have to throw in the interfund transfers in. Where the money comes from, in the General Fund as we saw on an earlier chart primarily sales tax funded, sixty seven percent is from sales tax another seven percent from mortgage tax, seventy five percent of the Towns operation is funded by tax money that flows through from non-property sources. As you go down we have stratified about seven about eight of these categories into what we considered the major categories, not to major because they fall down into two percent, one point nine, one point seven, one point three, one point one and the smallest source of revenue in the general fund is supported by property taxes, the smallest sources of funds, the smallest single source of funds in the general fund is the property taxes. Not a lot of significance to what you see are permits and license but it does add up to quite a bit on money we do not just take tax money in there are a lot of services that the town provides through the general fund through the town offices here in terms of collecting fees for vital statistics, safety inspection, dog licenses, bingo, do not get the wrong idea about games of chance we do not go to the track with fund balance or anything but they are licenses we sell. Like one hundred and seven thousand comes from actual, comes from the sale of permits and license to residents of the town looking to do a project or something similar. This chart just simply again expresses what we just, the two prior slides in graphic form pie chart forrn. Sales tax is seventy five this says sixty seven, and mortgage tax is another seven percent those two slices account for seventy five percent of the money for the Town. If you look up here you see one point seven percent is property taxes. This one actually shows an appropriated fund balance this year operation is going to an appropriated fund balance of fourteen percent of next years operation. Similar information presented in terms of a four year history and the most significant thing to me about this with me is that it is very stable. The lines are almost identical. Virtually no property taxes all the way across almost all sales taxes and a very uniform relationship between mortgage taxes and all other sources so the Town is, has a very reliable and very consistent funding source. No reason to expect that it will change this year except that we talk about sales taxes we are probably a little bit conservative there, there is a little concern about what might happen to sales taxes, not that we think it will go down because I think we had a banner year this year. Katy DuBois-Yes, we did, this last quarter was extremely high, four hundred thousand over last years quarter. CONTROLLER HESS-What we look to happen perhaps next year will be the State will likely to remove sales tax from clothing the reason for doing that is to generate sales taxes or generate more shopper from other areas, but if you take it off from clothing that is going to tend to bring down over all revenues to the extent that it is not made up from other sales may have an impact on taxes, we feel very comfortable with the estimates for next year because we have been conservative. We have achieved more sales tax revenue this year we have budgeted a flat revenue source for next year and next year at this time we will be talking to you about what the history has been on that. Two things happened, they are going to take it off from clothing we think and the other thing is they have these tax free days where people save, I guess and go out and spend all their money on tax free days to save the seven percent and they will, we do not know yet to what degree that is going to effect us. Just a couple of slides here on where the money is spent. Vehicles is always a point of conversation, I really wish it was not but I know when the board talks about the budget or when other people talk about the budget you know, if you need twenty thousand or forty thousand or fifty thousand dollars where do you get it, well vehicles is an easy place to go. That can be a problem at some point. But I want to point out to you just where we are going with the fleet. The non highway fleet this is all other departments except highway totals forty eight vehicles. Forty eight vehicles town wide most of them as you can see are in the water department. This only itemizes the ones where vehicles are being replaced this year. Parks and Recreation has an 88 sedan three hundred forty million miles or something like that on it and they finally convinced somebody that they need a new sedan, they are also going to get from community, Community Development has a fleet of eight vehicles they are turning one over the oldest one with the most miles that is not being retired that is actually being recycled up to Parks and Recreation also and Parks and Recreation is going to retire its 1983 pickup, I think it has lost its paint and primer. . . what a vehicle, but anyway there is two good uses of it there. The water department is turning in a meter truck and wastewater is turning in a 1990 vehicle. So, there is actually four vehicles being bought this year out of forty eight which would imply that we have got to twelve year turn over that is not really so, we probably have more like an eight or nine or ten year turn over so we are going to play catch up one of these years. This year is four. In the Highway Department, it doesn't show it here they have fifty vehicles, in the Highway Department. There are twenty five people who drive that so they are not all out all the time as you might expect. I have not seen that happen yet. But, when you talk about fifty vehicles and with the use they get this would imply five vehicle turn over implies a ten year life cycle in that department that is probably not realistic either, you just do not get that kind of use out of thern. But, to get through the budget year this is what Paul needed and that is what is being budgeted for the Highway Department, three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Before we go to the next slide, does anybody care to venture a guess on how much money the town has invested in real estate? .. .How much is spent for real estate, it is an investment to the extent that we get a service use out of it every year and as a finance person I can consider that an investment because we do not buy it again so that is an investment. Anyway, next slide. Twenty eight million dollars, most of it is the water plant I think we have got you know a couple of phases out there, it is but when you look around at public facilities you. . . I did not want you to think it was the town hall and the controllers office. But, twenty eight million dollars these are obviously rounded off but as of right now that is just about what the number is, twenty eight million dollars. The next slide will tell you what we have to spend this year to maintain that and this is not cleaning, this is not your normal hammer and fix a window this is, these are the projects that just need to be done this year to make sure things are maintained and in good condition. Highway roof you have got a new roof on the highway garage this year which was necessary it has been a long time coming, Highway Office roof gets repaired this year, sixty five hundred dollars, this building, a patio repair that is having a problem that is in the budget to be repaired, handicapped access to this building requiring new doors, is that right Chuck? BUILDING AND GROUNDS SUPT. CHUCK RICE-that is correct. CONTROLLER HESS-There are other improvements and repairs scattered around for sixteen one there is a capital project fund being established within this budget for one hundred thousand dollars and there is a capital reserve in the water fund for ten thousand dollars, none the less total capital expenditures out of this were for the maintenance for our twenty eight million dollars in real estate comes to about one hundred and forty four thousand this year. Here again, not a big amount of money but it is something I look back in prior years and it seems to have a point of interest so we did a two year analysis on what the town invests in I would like to say, what we are investing in culture some of these things are not necessarily cultural what we are investing in culture, seniors and youth. Forty five eight, that has not changed in fact that has not changed in the last four years, I think five years ago, four or five years ago it dropped down a bit, it has been holding at this number steady, you can see where the money is going a number of areas are being leveled funded the exception to it where it has to do with the two theaters, I think one is moving to Saratoga and money is being put back into another cultural service. Before you go to the last slide I just want to make a comment here and I did not tell you before we started you should have taken on of these books because there was a test at the end. Now, as Controller I am responsible for administering the finances of the town, the supervisor every once in a while makes a point to tell me that it is my responsibility to watch every nickel like a hawk. I tell him I do. I do, except I think sometimes maybe what I look for how I watch it, what I am watching for might be different than somebody might watch for. We can spend as little as possible and I would like to make sure that we spend, I guess what my theory about how I watch the departments, and if you ask me the department managers when I call them about an expenditure or an invoice comes thorough it is generally not because they are spending too much it is because maybe I do not think they are getting the value they should for the expenditure. If we can spend five dollars for an item and get five dollars worth that slides past me pretty quick, I think the supervisor would buy that. If somebody can buy something for four dollars that same five dollar item and spend four dollars for it they get three dollars worth of value I have a real problem with that, I consider that unacceptable. If they bring that too me I will usually ask them why aren't you spending five dollars and getting six dollars worth. So, really it is a matter of value, you know. I moved into the Town of Queensbury, I am new here, moved in this year and a couple of reactions have happened. I have traveled around to social events, with my family to people I know and I landed in a few places in my life in working and where do you live now and when I tell them I live in Queensbury they say you moved from Saranac Lake and live in Queensbury you know your family really knows how to live. They have a high regard for what Queensbury has to offer. This is the very people who know the area think very highly of it. When I travel to professional associations and I tell people where I work, they also think very highly of it. They say that is a very progressive government, they do a nice job. The apparent attributes of what you have up there are nicely done and other controllers read financial reports and so the government is well thought out at the same time. I guess I consider my job to try to promote that. I was going to in the start of the budget process I asked each of the managers of different departments to send me sort of a results oriented approach to their department, a results based report, tell me you know, don't tell me what you spend I can see that I have your budgets tell me what you are buying, tell me what it is getting for the town and I got a lot of different responses back and some of them I did not get back at all. But, I really thought maybe I would try to tell you what I thought the value of the government and the Queensbury is. After I saw the responses and put together this project I thought it is probably the wrong thing to do, so what we have done instead is while we answer your questions or while you pose your questions to the Board and myself we are going to pose fourteen questions up here let them sit if you want to test yourself before you leave here tonight, if you get seven out of the first ten, the first ten are the most critical if you get seven out of the first ten you have scored a seventy, give yourself a B if you get ten out of all fourteen that is still a seventy but give yourself a C and then we will let it go at that and let you direct your questions to Fred or myself or whoever. Do you have any questions? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Very good, I appreciate that. UNKNOWN-How many children have registered to that pool? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-thousand and thousands.. RECREATION DIRECTOR HANSEN-Do you want a year or do you want? UNKNOWN-Just this past year how many children have learned to swim... Queensbury where we are surrounded by water it is very important that our children know how to swim. MR. JOHN SALVADORE-How do you measure the value of our investment in culture? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Probably not quite the way you measure it John. MR. JOHN SAL V ADORE-That is not important, I would like to know how you measure it. ... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok, I guess we are open for questions, I guess we need to bring that mic back over. . . MS. LISA A. SIMPSON-I would like to answer the question about how we measure the value of culture. As most of you know I am the Director of the Chapman Historical Museum and I am here just to say thank you for again putting us in the budget. As you all know the investment that you put into the Chapman is extremely important to us. I have some handouts, I know I handed these out last time but in case you did not bring them. We are run and operated by the Glens Falls Queensbury Historian Association. We have been in operation over thirty years now, we were founded in 1965. Our mission is to collect, preserve, exhibit and use for educational purposes the history of those two communities. I just wanted to make a few points about what we do with the money that you give us this year. This year, this last year we had over three thousand items given to us by people in the community. A good portion of those relate to the history of Queensbury. With those objects part of our mandate is to make sure they are preserved and we have a professional staff of three, all of us have maters degrees with specialties in how to care for items such as this. All items that are given to us are stored in our climate controlled facility. They are all stored in acid free boxes and kept away from light. Besides storing those items we also use them for exhibitions, we do three to four exhibitions a year which relates to the history of the region. Those exhibitions bring in tourists, we track how many tourist we get, we get approximately sixty percent of the people from outside Glens Falls or Queensbury who come in to see our exhibitions. Last year we had an all time high attendance of eighteen thousand three hundred and thirty three. This is up from ten thousand when I started three years ago so it has been a pretty significant increase. The exhibition bring in those tourists who then spend money in our community they shop, they go to the gas stations, they stay over night so we all know how important the tourist business is to us and of course the museums are very intragel to bring in tourists. We also use the exhibitions to educate people both adults and children. We also put on a hugh number of education programs throughout the year, probably thirty to forty programs and that is not including the school programs themselves. Last year we saw over five thousand school age children and a good portion of those are of course from Queensbury. Because of your generous donation every year we do not charge the school children from Queensbury, we do charge for other outside schools like Glens Falls or other communities. So, we are providing a service to help educate the young people of your community and we do, I think we do a great job on our school programs. We get great comments back and I think it is very important part of our mission statement. So, those are some of the things that we do and I also handed out a revenue pie chart so that you can see we work very hard in making sure that we do not rely too heavily on government funding and as you can see we are very successful in that. We have what all museums strive for which is a well balanced approach to our income every year. Our budget this year is at one hundred and seventy thousand we are run on a virtual shoe string. You can see that we do have an earned income through memberships through our museum shop sales through our fund raising events which we have each year and through our endowment and through other kinds of donations. So, those are the other important ways that we help fund the one hundred and seventy thousand that run the museurn. So, I just wanted to say thank you again for considering putting us in the budget it is extremely important to us and I would be happy to answer any of the questions that you might have. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Are there any questions from the Board, from the audience? You do a good job Lisa, proud to be a part of it. MS. SIMPSON-Thank you. I appreciate your help every year. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok. Anyone else, questions, answers, concerns, advice, criticisrn. Mr. Salvador? MR. SALVADOR-All of the above. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-All of the above, start where you wish. MR. SALVADOR-The list of not for profits, if the Lake George Opera Festival comes back to this region will we then fund them in addition to the organization that. . . SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-My response to that John and I knew that you would ask me that question, obviously, when that time comes a decision will be made by that board and the four of us, three of us here tonight may not even be around to answer that so I guess it is pre-mature to give you an answer. MR. SALVADOR -lam looking at page one, 1998 preliminary budget it is part of that first section, just for example and for my own education here, Code 1420 is Town Counsel we have an allocation for forty six thousand dollars for personnel in that category, what does that cover the forty six thousand. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I have got to catch up to you John, I am sorry page one? MR. SALVADOR-Page one. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Page one, 1420, what code did you give? MR. SALVADOR-1420 Town Counsel COUNCILMAN PUL VER-I believe that is the staff, John. MR. SALVADOR-Secretaries? COUNCILMAN PULVER-Yes. MR. SALVADOR-Two secretaries? COUNCILMAN PUL VER-A par-legal and secretary. MR. SALVADOR-For a total offorty six thousand is that their total cost payroll burdens or is that just direct salaries? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Direct salaries. CONTROLLER HESS-That is direct salary...37% from other areas... MR. SALVADOR-So, there is 37% on top of that. Contractual is at two thirty three further along there in column I think it is four contractual the two thirty three that is what we pay Miller and Mannix? COUNCILMAN PULVER-No. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We pay Miller and Mannix One hundred and fifty. COUNCILMAN PULVER-And then the rest is SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-the umbrella coverage its routine legal and then we pay I would say over and above that for those litigated items that go to the courts. MR. SALVADOR - Well, Miller and Mannix is included in the two thirty three. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-yes. MR. SALVADOR-And all the other litigation is included in there also, so that the Town Counsel is costing us little bit short of two hundred and eighty thousand dollars a year. That compares with if! remember correctly about one hundred and seventy five thousand when we had our own town counsel on the payroll. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, we have been studying that for the last three months, I will be very honest with you and that is a good question and I think if you look at the annual expenditure for legal advise for legal affairs it is all over the lot depending on the particular year when the law suits were up obviously our costs go up when we have fewer lawsuits obviously our costs go down. But in terms of the town counsel vs the town attorney I do not think you are going to see an awful big difference there. I do not think you are going to see a difference at all. That is my personal feelings other board members can speak out on their terms. Yes. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-I can also tell Mr. Salvador that your recollection or your belief as to past years is definitely incorrect that the town figures document expenditure for Attorney services for every year since at least 1993 well in excess of two hundred thousand dollars for each of those years. There are documented expenses for legal services for 1995 for example when there was still a full time Town Attorney in excess of two hundred and eighty thousand dollars. So, your figures are just, for whatever reason if your recollection or your figures are not accurate they are well over two hundred thousand dollars for every year since at least 1993. COUNCILMAN PULVER-But John, part of it is I think where you are looking the line your are looking in other years was correct but we were also recording it differently we had legal fees in the planning department we had for the planning board but, that is part of our service now so the line items have been changed so that is why it is a little hard to look back at other budgets and say exactly what it was without knowing where to look. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-There is some accounting apples and oranges so to speak in terms of direct comparison for what it is worth I agree with the Supervisor's statement I think ultimately you will find approximately a wash. MR. SALVADOR-Ok, I am looking at page one 1998 preliminary budget, highway fund 004, does that presentation there of two million seven hundred and two thousand represent the total cost to the town, to the taxpayer of highway department, the total cost is there? CONTROLLER HESS-There are highway administration costs... MR. SALVADOR-Ok, so again, I see it, 5010 garage, ok, says highway garage there.. CONTROLLER HESS-That is building and grounds. MR. SALVADOR - Well anyway if we were to take last years budget and we were to put it in this form which it probably isn't could we identify where something like the cost of Sweet Road is accounted for, where would it appear in ... CONTROLLER HESS-That is a capital project. MR. SALVADOR-That is not in here...where does that come from? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-General fund special account, a separate account. MR. SALVADOR-OK. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Drainage actually. John, there are two pieces to that, one is highway budget has responsibility for roads, anything outside of roads such as drainage or sidewalks or brush clearing or picking up brush, limbs, leaves whatever those are all separate items that are outside of the highway responsibility and those are budgeted separately and they are paid for from a separate account added to the highway budget. MR. SALVADOR -You mean it is not the Highway Superintendent responsibility as Highway maintenance to cut the grass on the shoulder of the road? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-yes it is., cut the grass. MR. SALVADOR-Cut brush? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-yes the brush, it is not his responsibility to go through and if there is a storm, whatever and people bring all their brush out in front of their house then that becomes part of the general fund expense. MR. SALVADOR-It is not your responsibility either. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Well... MR. SALVADOR-You make it your responsibility. It is a not for profit. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No it is a for profit. MR. SALVADOR -Yes. I just have a few other questions. In the next years budget in this budget SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-In 1998 budget. MR. SALVADOR-In this budget is there any allocation for the re-construction of Dunhams Bay Road? CONTROLLER HESS-The allocation for capital projects was one hundred thousand dollars, that has been unallocated between projects but it has been provided for to cover future projects. MR. SALVADOR-So, there is one hundred thousand dollars indicated to pay for capital projects CONTROLLER HESS-To due what the board determines to do. MR. SALVADOR-So, on a priority basis you will expend up to one hundred thousand dollars on capital projects, so and you will establish the priority? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, in addition to that there are moneys in the highway, in otherwords his labor is paid for his trucks are paid for gas and oil is paid for all of those operating costs are paid for anything this gentleman does between the two shoulders of that road up there are taken out of that budget and that budget chips money for blacktop so if there is no drainage and no sidewalks and there is no brush to be picked up then he eats it, I do not mean that literally but he pays for it, that has got no, there is no capital funds there is no capital moneys appropriated then there would be no expenditure. I really do not see where there is any local dollars coming out of our general fund to accommodate that project other than engineering and maybe legal but beyond that that is it for that particular project. Paul help me on that am I right? HIGHWAY SUPT. NAYOR-You are one hundred percent right. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-That is guaranteed. HIGHWAY SUPT. NA YOR-Guaranteed. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Take it too the bank. MR. SALVADOR-So then the major portion of the cost for the re-habitation of Dunhams Bay Road for any road like Dunhams Bay Road SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-is in Highway. MR. SALVADOR-Is in 004 Highway fund. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yes. MR. SALVADOR-My question is how much and where, is any, are the funds for the re-hibilitation of Dunhams Bay Road in that box 004? HIGHWAY SUPT. NAYLOR-You would have to ask me for that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I guess I would have to...yea, we fund highway we fund highway, highway determines what gets done and how much he spends on whatever he spends it on that is not within our prevIew. MR. SALVADOR-The scope of work to be accomplished for these numbers has been defined by the Highway Supt. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-You have got it. MR. SALVADOR-If he has infact defined the re-habitation of the Dunhams Bay Road in the coming year the numbers have to be in here. COUNCIMLAN TURNER-No, they do not have to be in here. MR. SALVADOR-Where are, I just want to know. If anything has been provided for that work? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Maybe the answer is yes, maybe no. John, we fund the project, we fund his operation, his operation is funded, if he chooses to do Dunhams Bay Road over Quaker Road, not Quaker Road but Meadowbrook Road or the other name COUNCILMAN TURNER-Cronin Road SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Cronin Road that is his choice, we know at what level we are going to spend in highway and that's the level we set, he runs the roads, it is COUNCILMAN PULVER-He has the money SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-his option where he wants to identify his priorities. The board does not get into that to very honest with you. MR. SAL V ADOR-I understand SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I do not want Ted Turner fist fighting Betty Monahan over what road gets done, that is his choice. MR. SALVADOR-But I would think in arriving at these numbers you have a scope of work you have to have some plan. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-The plan is what we are funding, twenty nine people in the highway and fifteen or eighteen trucks and one bulldozer and one back hoe. . . MR. SALVADOR-And a capital project SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, listen to me, the capital project the expense for that capital project is in the labor that is already paid for out of what I just identified it is in the trucks, he goes out and we manufacture our own item four what else do we need to do beyond what is already funded, nothing, nothing, besides paying legal and engineer. MR. SALVADOR-It is in here then. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-It is there. MR. SALVADOR-There is some money in this budget SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-To do projects as determined by the Highway, I am not saying Dunhams Bay I am not saying Cronin Road, I am saying there is a hundred in there to do something there too. I am not going to pin up Dunhams Bay on the Town Board position on top of a Cronin Road, that is that man's choice. That is how it works. MR. SALVADOR-Can Mr. Naylor answer my question? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ask him. MR. SALVADOR-Paul, HIGHWAY SUPT. NAYLOR-You said I do not have to answer or I do have to ... MR. SAL V ADOR-I would expect you to answer. HIGHWAY SUPT. NAYLOR-I may answer. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We start out by saying can... MR. SALVADOR-Have you provided in your budget for next year, your operating budget for next year, moneys for the reconstruction, re-habitation of Dunhams Bay Road? HIGHWAY SUPT. NAYLOR-No. MR. SALVADOR -You haven't provided any money. HIGHWAY SUPT. NAYLOR-No, not a dime MR. SALVADOR-You have issued a contract to Nacy Engineering for some forty six hundred dollars to do engineering work for this project, for what reason, just put it on a shelf someplace? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, if that project comes in at a half a million dollars, a half a million we do not, when we do a feasible study out there in town government yea, we may put it on a shelf, we may put it to work the next day it is all determined on the taxes, it is all determined on the kind of costs and it is all determined on the priorities. What is the most important and to the health and safety of our people in this town come construction season next year, and that man will determine that. MR. SAL V ADOR- When you think of health and safety, take a good look at that road. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I was up there John, two weeks ago. MR. SALVADOR-Yea, ok. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I really was. MR. SALVADOR-Enough of that, SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-...give up too easy. MR. SALVADOR - Weare working on bring forth a comprehensive plan in this town and I am wondering if there are any moneys in this budget to cover any fees that might be incurred as that committee may need, expert advice. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Believe me when that committee needs whatever it needs there will be funds available, it is not a , it is not set aside item, we have attorney fees in there, we have legal fees in there, engineering fees in there as required, to be determined if you will. So, the answer to that right up front is absolutely, we are going to move that project and whatever it costs will be available. MR. SALVADOR-Have you considered a fee for a consultant that might coordinate and take over that project on behalf of the town? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No. MR. SALVADOR-That is not in the wood. Ok. Are there any moneys in this budget for town sponsored economic development? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No. MR. SALVADOR-Any moneys in this budget for what the Town might incur in the way of costs to accomplish the Warren County sewer project in North Queensbury? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No. MR. SALVADOR-Any allowance in this budget for the Cleverdale Storm Water Management Project. That is funded, Betty, that is by grant, John Goralski called be about quarter to six to tell me he was not able to be here and I told him I would do my best to answer all the questions, but John. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-It may be a matching grant. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I guess but I hesitate to do this but I can get that information for you tomorrow or you can call John, I will do it either way but I just do not want to . MR. SALVADOR-At best it is a matching grant. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Well, no COUNSEL SCHACHNER-The best is an outright grant...I am not sure.. MS. KATE DuBOIS-.. . fully funded by the Lake George SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Tom Jerrett, COUNSEL SCHACHNER-That is what I thought, that is an outright grant then. MR. SALVADOR-The study is fully funded I understand the brick and mortar COUNCILMAN TURNER-The project money MR. SALVADOR-Project money a grant application has been filed submitted for that SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Along with another twenty five or thirty for clean air, clean water MR. SALVADOR-My question is what if you get the grant? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Two choices,John, one is if the board agrees to take it out of contingency, we take it out of contingency. There is one hundred and seventy five, two hundred give me the money out of the contingency moneys I think it is around two hundred thousand dollars CONTROLLER HESS-One hundred and seventy five SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Pretty close, one hundred and seventy five, so either take it out of there John, or you know if it is big bucks then obviously like any other project that we do on a, of that magnitude we go out and ban it. KATE DuBOIS-Our ban interests rates right now we pay a lower interest rate on a ban than we earn on our savmgs so.. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-So, we are better off leaving it in contingency and borrowing the money especially between air and clean water moneys, pretty cheap. MR. SALVADOR-If you are not successful with the grant application how will you accomplish the project? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-John, I believe what Mark Twain says we spend about ninety percent of our time worrying about things eighty five percent of which never happen, I think those are the types of things you spend your time deciding when you find out where you are on the road. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, we cannot put the money in the budget at this point in time if in fact we really do not know what grants are available out there to us I think we need to go through that first. We may not touch storm water in North Queensbury in 1998, I cannot tell you that at this point. MR. SALVADOR-Ok. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok. MR. DICK MERRILL-Sunset Trail - a couple of questions that John did not get to I guess. Is there any money in the budget for widening Aviation Road? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No. MR. MERRILL- I notice in the detail sheet in the Highway Dept. there is one hundred and three thousand round numbers for Warren County snow plow contract, I believe Fred from what you said Monday night that has kind of fallen apart? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-At this point it is on the rocks, ok. I had some conversation today with Mr. Remmington and Mr. Belden and Mr. Naylor has not even been informed of this yet, I do not believe, but there may be a meeting of the minds down the road. I think there are some differences here of opinion and I am trying to resolve those differences, maybe we can maybe we can't. I did say that I thought a week ago that it was no go, now maybe we got a little light at the end of the tunnel, the man is shacking his head back there, no, so I guess it is no, ok. MR. MERRILL-If we lose the one hundred and three thousand income I assume that it comes out of the expenses as well? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No, that hundred and three is in here actually that would be revenue in and revenue out in other words that would be the cost of labor and trucks and all the other depreciation and materials, sand, salt it is awfully hard to judge what profit or if it even would be a profit. CONTROLLER HESS-I can tell you that there are corresponding budget items for expenditures just like there were for the revenue and one washes the other one washes out. MR. MERRILL-That is what I could not find in the detail. CONTROLLER HESS-It is there, it is there in detail... MR. MERRILL-I would assume that it would be. Thanks SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-That's it, anyone else? Pliney do you have something to say? Wow MS. BARBARA BENNETT-When did the budget come out? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-When did they come out? They were printed? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-They were ready the 30th Barbara. Before the day it was advertised in the paper they were ready. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Here we are at quarter after, five minutes after eight this is too easy.. COUNCILMAN PULVER-It was shorter last year. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yea, but you know we built up a little hype this year I figured we had a lot of questions. We need to do this before election and maybe we would get a little more interest. MR. MERRILL-As a matter of education here we have a surplus I understand due to the good job we did in closing the landfill now where does that show up? COUNCILMAN PUVLER-In the landfill account... MR. MERRILL-there isn't a balance sheet that shows the total assets? KATE DuBOIS-not in the handouts, it shows up in the monthly financial reports... MR. MERRILL-What is the balance? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-A million about two million am I right? Pretty close to two million dollars... MR. MERRILL-How is that invested? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Where is that money now, Henry? KATE DuBOIS-In the Evergreen Bank 5 1f4 % interest. . . SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anyone else? Thank you all very much for joining us and in particular the department heads that took their time to be with us tonight. Henry, a job well done. Closed 8: 10 P.M. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 421.97 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its meeting. Duly adopted this 6th day of November, 1997 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Turner, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Champagne NOES: None ABSENT: Mrs. Goedert Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury