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1998-06-08 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD/PLANNING BOARD MEETING JUNE 8, 1998 6:00 P.M. MTG.#27 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR FRED CHAMPAGNE COUNCILMAN RICHARD MERRILL COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DOUGLAS IRISH COUNCILMAN PLINEY TUCKER (Meeting in the Supervisor's Conference Room) SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Opened the meeting. Interviews held by Compro for the Town newsletter Interviews held as follows: Ward 3 Douglas Irish, Ward 2 Theodore Turner, Ward 1 Richard Merrill, and Ward 4 Pliney Tucker 7:00 P.M. TOWN ACTIVITY CENTER PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS JOIN TOWN BOARD CHAIRMAN CRAIG MACEWAN VICE CHAIRMAN GEORGE STARK SECRETARY CATHERINE LABOMBARD TIMOTHY BREWER ROBERT PALING LARRY RINGER ROBERT VOLLARO PUBLIC HEARING: AVIATION MALL EXPANSION NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I would like to call this meeting to order. On behalf of the Town Board and the Town Planning Board I would like to thank you for joining with us this evening. I really expected more and as you can see we put out two hundred and some odd chairs with anticipation that certainly we would have a larger crowd. But, maybe it is quality rather than quantity here this evening. So, we will get on with our business. At this point I would like to turn at least the start up of the meeting over to Chris Round our Community Executive Director or Community Development so that Chris can kind of give us some background the purpose why we are here this evening, so Chris would you take it from there. EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CHRIS ROUND-Yes, for the public's benefit, tonight is a joint meeting of the Town Board and Planning Board and the purpose of the meeting is to hear public comment on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement, the proposed zone change and amendments and or modifications of the language of our current zoning ordinance. Briefly, Pyramid Corporation is proposing eight hundred and fifty thousand square foot multi story expansion of the Aviation Mall. The proposed project includes a multi level parking area and improvements to Aviation Road to accommodate the project. The zone change from HCIA to ESC25 if requested for several properties has or maybe in the process of acquiring. Modification and amendments to the Town Zoning Ordinance include but are not limited to an increase in the density and height of structures allowed, changes in set backs allowed and a change in the parking requirements. Copies of the proposed changes are available here tonight. The town has sought and has received lead agency status for the purpose of SEQRA Review a Draft EIS was found to be acceptable for review purposes on May 4th 1998. The Town had retained Sear Brown Group, Frank Palumbo is here to my left tonight to assist in the review the Town will receive public comment on the project through Friday, June 19th 1998 and that is subject to revision. The DOT, the New York State DOT the Town and County Planning Boards are involved agencies. Briefly also upon close of the public comment period the, upon the close public comment period the public comments will be received as I said to June 19th a final EIS will, is to be completed within forty five calendar days of tonight. This public hearing incorporating the Draft EIS and any revisions determined necessary and public comments of record. After that each involved agency will issue a findings statement identifying that the project is approvable, I put that in quotes and or not if that is the determination of a particular agency after consideration of the action and that environmental impacts are mitigated or minimized to the maximum extent practicable. After the close of the SEQRA review process the project will also be subject to site plan review and discretionary approvals. The Town Board must first approve the zone change and modifications through the ordinance and that is the project in a nut shell and I will turn it back to Fred. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thanks Chris. At this point, I forgot to mention our Planning Board it is kind of a joint meeting here this evening its a first for me and sense that it is going to certainly save time on the part of everyone's behalf by having both boards hearing the presentation that we are going to do tonight and also the public input that is going to come back so, we have plenty of listening ears at these two tables and I think the purpose of this is obviously for us to gain the input and to understand the concerns of the public so that those decisions that will be forthcoming will be made with certainly your input in mind. So, unless there is anything more to be said, do you want to add to that? TOWN COUNSEL MARK SCHACHNER-I will just add that again for the benefit of the public this is the first step in a multi step process. If the approvals that are required from the Town Board are in fact granted at the conclusion of the SEQRA process the project will then go before the Planning Board for site plan review and at that time they would by law be yet another public hearing as well on the site plan review each Issues. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thank you, Mark. Anything else from the Board or the Planning Board? Ok. At this point I would like to Open the Public Hearing on the Expansion of the Aviation Mall. I would call on the applicant to make the presentation if they would please. ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER-For the record my name is John Lapper from the Law firm of Lemery and Reid on behalf of Pyramid with me tonight is Jim Martin from the LA Group the landscape architects for the project Steve Maffia from the John Collins Engineers the traffic consultants for the project and Greg Faucher a representative from Pyramid. We would like to start out with a short presentation for the benefit of the public and the members of both boards to go thorough the zoning aspects the site plan and the traffic aspects of the project and then sit down and listen to the public. We appreciate being at this first historic joint meeting because we think it is a every efficient to not make the public come out twice to talk about the zoning and environmental impact issues. I think I am going to take the microphone and go over to our site plan so that I can just point some things as we get started. That is as close as I can get. To begin with the most unique aspect of this project is that we are able to undertake an expansion in a very small amount of acreage adjacent to the existing mall. This is possible by proposing a multi story parking facility and retail expansion. This is the first multi story mall north of Albany and Pyramid is very excited about this. This was designed in this manner in accordance with the Comprehensive Master Plan for the Town which calls for a consolidating the commercials uses within the existing commercial corridor and the mall is of course at the center of the existing commercial corridor. With its location next door to the Northway, it allows people that are coming into Town to not clug existing roads and if they want to just get right to the mall and right off the mall it is very efficient. So far it has been reported in the papers and as part of our submission to the Town we have closed on the purchase of the former Howard Johnson's Motel and the former Seven Steers Restaurant which are the two parcels that are immediately adjacent to the Northway. What is proposed is to remove a vast quantity of sand and fill from this area so that the new building will be constructed at the same finish floor level as the existing Penny's. This allows a three story retail building and a four story garage to be tucked into the hill if you will, and in many ways if not hidden from view certainly the view will be reduced just by taking advantage of the existing actual topography and removing all that fill. When Jim Martin makes his presentation in a few minutes he will show you that we have had the LA Group do elevation drawings from three different perspectives, from the Northway from Aviation Road by the bridge by the former restaurant and from Aviation Road going up the hill, and from these perspectives which detail would we expect it will look like when constructed it certainly does not look like a three story building. Doesn't look like approximately seventy five foot tall building. If you were just looking at it on flat ground and that is really what is unique and attractive about this parcel in terms of an environmental impact. In addition by removing the development that were formally along Aviation Road when you come into Town at Exit 19 of the Northway the project includes reducing substantially the number of curb cuts, what is proposed is to have the one entrance one curb cut where the mall which will be a right turn in and right turn out which our traffic engineer will describe and potentially one more curb cut for the existing Sunoco Station should that remain and we are hoping that doesn't remain if that becomes available. But by eliminating the other businesses that exist now it will certainly soften the appearance coming into Queensbury and allow landscaping right at the exit which will be a much nicer appearance. Right now there is mostly asphalt right at the entrance in front of these businesses next to the road. Again, the mall will be set back from Aviation Road the new building and screened to a certain extent by vegetation. What we are requesting in terms of the zone change is, changing the density the height rules the parking rules just as it relates to the enclosed shopping zone. When this zone was brought about by the Town Board in the early ninety's it was done in acknowledgment that an enclosed shopping center is a different kind of development than other retail commercial facilities. What we proposed in terms of these changes is a way to allow the additional development to take place on few acres which we think is appropriate when considering the Master Plan goal to consolidate commercial development. If the new proposed stores were not going to locate here in a three story addition we could certainly envision that they would be on Quaker Road or Route 9 perhaps abutting residential neighborhoods and this is just a way to consolidate everything right here to internalize the traffic by eliminating those curb cuts from the existing commercial uses and in many ways to just improve the view when you get off the Northway at what is acknowledged as the front door of the Town of Queensbury. I think that is probably it in terms of just a general overview of the project. Next I am going to ask Jim Martin to make a detailed presentation just describing the site plan, explaining what the three story addition how that will work with the parking garage and showing you the views. MR. JIM MARTIN-Thanks John. For the purposes of your record, my name is Jim Martin from the firm of the LA Group in Saratoga, we were retained to assist with the landscaping and preliminary engineering on the site and I will try and take you thorough and have you become a little bit more familiar with the specifics of the site because it is somewhat of the complicated proposal here in terms of traffic movement and what I mean by complicated is just looking at the site plan drawing it doesn't come right off the drawing so I will take you through it. Ok, just to orient you we have the Adirondack Northway here, Aviation Road going along in front of the mall, existing mall here. The existing mall is shown in white and the dash line here is the corner of the current Penny's building. The expansion as John has indicated occurs at a north south orientation through the site basically you have the Seven Steers Restaurant as exists today or the building is right here and right next to that and extending back through this area is the existing or former motel building. Now, in terms of views of the site which we felt were very important, we have got some comments from the Board Members to that effect already. We have prepared some renderings and I know this is, you know this is such a large room it is hard, difficult to see and people are certainly able to break and come up and look at these and afterwards come up and view. This is basically the view from the Northway and what we are looking at is a view perspective from the north bound lane of the Northway through the site basically to the east, in this area looking through. And as you can see the building is going to be very well hidden by virtue of the existing vegetation that exists along the shoulder of the Northway. As you can, the outline of the building is shown here and the top edge of the parking facility is shown here. So, from this perspective due to the elevation of the roadway the topography of the hill along the site of the Northway the view of the building is not going to be all that pronounced. It will essentially have a one story view of the top of the parking facility. Ok, that is the view from the Northway, now moving along ok, now this is a perspective from the top of Aviation Road hill as I will refer to it. Right here on the road over here on this plan somewhere approximately in this area looking though the site here and just catching the existing, this would be the existing Convenient Store here, as you see in white. Now, from this perspective you begin to see what I was talking about, basically a one story appearance here along the western edge of the building and that will fade as the hill goes down the topography drops into a two level, you will begin to see the two level face of the building, here along the northern wall. Now, something I would like to add about these drawing these are not detailed architectural drawings of the building itself, these are very early conceptual drawings we are looking really to display a line, drawing of the building the mass as it might appear in a view. There will be detailed architectural drawings to follow, architectural treatments will occur in the building especially at the entrance ways. These are really just meant to give you a feel of the mass of the structure on the horizon and not a detailed view of the architecture. So do not be alarmed at basically a very bland looking building here there will be more to follow. Ok. The last view is now more from the center of the Aviation Road hill approximately in this area the new entrance looking up through the site. Now, as John, you can begin to feel as John indicated about the landscaping the concentration is meant to occur along the perimeter of our site. This is where if you are going to get any full effect of a three story multi level shopping center it will come from this perspective. But, again the planting is strategically to try an minimize and soften that view and really keep this as a main artery in Queensbury, especially one of the entrance points, something that is visually pleased. And then some further details that exists on these plans as people come up and look at them we are also trying to display how the parking multi level parking will relate to the building. Again, we are looking at a northern edge of, here is the northern edge of the Mall here, and then here is the two level parking facility that will occur off the north here. I will get into that and some more detail in a minute also and then you can see here at a cross section view through the building the multi level structure that John was referring to earlier to also the Northway being here the parking facility and the building. So, those are here for viewing and we will be referring to them through the night I am sure. Now, in terms of the landscaping, something as a past Planning Director in the Town I always noticed when we looked at site plans there is a lot of the plantings can come in and around the parking area and it is really lost there. What we are trying to do is concentrate the landscaping more on the perimeter the landscape is meant to beautify the view of the building the view of the site and we want to try and do that from the right of way in the public areas were the public is traveling by not necessarily stopping in but traveling by. Landscaping is concentrated along the perimeter of the site and also at strategic points. Heavy concentration here at the entry way coming off the Northway ramp and also at our entrance points in the site, these are where there is often times a lot of traffic going by so people will have an nice view of the site. So, that was a rational behind the landscaping, and in terms of details on this, these are the things that will work out with the Town's Beautification Committee and the Town Planning Board through site plan review process. But, this will give you a conceptual feel of the spirit and intent behind the landscaping. Ok, moving along to stormwater which is often times an issue in the Town we are very fortunate with the soils that exist here on the site both in terms of the existing location and the proposed expansion area. We have done some deep soil borings at two locations, where we did not know about the soils. We know about the soils on the existing sites from past applications for expansion but on the new site we did two borings there and found in similar situations, it is sand as far as we drilled. We drilled down about seventy five feet at two different locations here. It is sand all the way through so there in lies the solution to the storm water issue. Just to take you through it briefly, a conceptual fashion. The existing site through this area and in the back basically drains to the detention pond that exists here in the back. We propose to continue that same concept. Now, in terms of the front area around the existing mall here in the last expansion they took advantage of infiltration under the parking lot as a means of dealing with the storm water. We have proposed basically the same concept. We have this area now that has to be dealt with in terms of the water what we propose is bringing it around to an infiltration bed that will exist right in this area of the parking lot mirroring the natural process storm water takes it, it naturally flows, infiltrates into the ground we will be proposing the same thing. The retention ponds will be retained here in the back and as exists in the case today should there be a need for an over flow situation that exists out into the street here on Aviation Road. However, I do not know of any time when that even has ever been I do not even think there has been much water in the retention ponds much less a need for the overflow, but we will continue that same system. Ok. To touch briefly on the economics of the project and those of you who are at the Citizens Meeting that we attended a couple weeks ago heard this but I wanted to touch on this briefly again. The economics as you might expect are rather substantial. In terms of projected real property tax, the mall currently now pays in excess of three hundred and ninety thousand dollars in real property taxes the projected increase of in excess of eight hundred thousand dollars a year an increase of over four hundred thousand dollars a year. In terms of sales tax revenue the existing sales tax revenue generated at the mall is approximately six point four million dollars, we project under the new expansion twenty six million dollars an increase of nineteen million dollars in sales tax revenue. Now, this is split between the Town and the County the Town's share of that is expected to be one point eight million an increase of one point three million over what the Town takes in right now out of the sales tax revenue generated at the mall and the Warren County portion of that would be just over eleven point two million. In terms of tax benefit to the school the school district right now the tax paid by the mall is in excess of four hundred and eighty four thousand dollars the projected amount with the expansion in excess of one point two million dollars an increase of seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Now, the last remaining economic benefit would be job creation we are estimating jobs during construction to be in excess of nine hundred jobs, in excess of nine hundred and eighty, where total permanent employment once the facility is built and operating for your full time, part time jobs, operational jobs at the mall in excess of nineteen hundred. Now, the weekly payroll at the facility once it is completed is expected to be four hundred and fifty thousand dollars on a weekly basis. The net effect of this on an annual basis is in excess of twenty three million dollars a year. Now, with this kind of payroll once that is out into the community there is an effect referred to as a multiplier effect, in other words the rippling effect of that amount of money now being available in the local economy on a spendable basis. When you project that out in to the community and how that ripples through other businesses that employ other people and so on the effect can be in excess of forty million dollars a year under our projections. So, it is sizable economic impact as you might expect. And then, now, jumping back to the site plan I just want to finish up with parking and internal traffic. Parking again, this is an efficient parking design as you might expect with the multi level facilities that are available will occur basically in two places. Here along the western edge of the site this is a multi level structure of about four levels in size a ground level and three levels above it. The ground level will be at the existing finished floor level of the existing 1. C. Penny and the balance of the mall. In terms of this here, this will be a ground level with one level above it. Essentially a two level area here. Surface level parking will occur here at the corner at the existing site of the former Seven Steer's and surface parking will exists as it does today around the northern face here and the southern face here. The parking is efficient in design and again noting some of the other large commercial developments recently in the Town you get parking too far away from the front door or from the access points to the building people simply will not utilize it. The parking here at the greatest distance at any location is three to four hundred feet, a very reasonable distance for people to take their goods or anything that they might buy into the mall. Another feature being multi level in a climate such as ours will have cover secured parking during the winter months making it a little bit more pleasant as some of you know then walking through a lot several hundred feet in January. So, the parking is attempting to be efficient in design and consolidated due to the multi level nature of the proposal here and here to the west. In terms of internal traffic flow we are looking to accommodate continuous access all the way around the building primarily for emergency vehicles concerns. Again, the flow would be through, under neath this first multi level parking area here and then underneath the three level multi parking area here and then back out into an open air surface, the open air surface is out here to the south. In terms of delivery trucks, a loading dock in noted here, trucks would enter here come through and exit here at a full movement intersection there. This is not unlike the deliveries that occur today we have loading docks here at the back of Caldors as well as entrance or delivery points along the south edge of the Mall here. So, the travel distance for delivery trucks is approximately the same with very similar types of movement. Weare in contact with the emergency service agencies in the Town and at the County to make sure that our design will meet with their needs. And also will have various fire prevention treatments in these structures that will obviously comply with the building code and so on and that is really all I had to present at this time, given that we are talking with traffic I will hand it over to our traffic consultant. MR. STEVE MAFFIA-Thank you, Jim. Good evening ladies and gentlemen, my name is Steve Maffia, I am with the Traffic Engineering Consulting firm of John Collins Engineers from Hawthorne, New York. We were hired, our task was to evaluate the traffic impacts of the proposed expansion of the Aviation Mall and in particular the traffic impact along this section of Aviation Road in the Town of Queensbury. Our first task in developing the picture of what is going to happen as traffic from the expanded mall comes into the traffic network or the street net work is to first develop a base line of information. This base line is a snap shot if you will of the traffic conditions along Aviation Road under existing conditions, what is out there today in terms of traffic volumes and in terms of the physical characteristics of the roadway how many lanes of traffic are there along Aviation Road whether an intersection is signalized, if it is signalized what is the timing of the signal is and how that intersection operates. To do this the first thing we do is to go out and do traffic counts. We put people at the various intersections that we studied over the course of several hours over the peak periods, on a PM week day usually a Friday when a retail development is involved and also on a Saturday during the middle of the day when a retail development of this nature is generating most of its traffic. Once we have this information although we count it for several hours we narrow it down to a single sixty minute period during which time the traffic reaches its peak and hence the term peak hour of traffic as far as the mall is concerned. Once we establish the base line we went, our next task is to project this information into the future. It is going to take some time to get the development built and operating so we predict traffic conditions for the year two thousand and one. During that time we will expect that there will be other growth in the area and traffic from that other growth obviously is going to be added to the net work as well. In order to do this we increase our, the traffic that we develop from the base line counts by a ten percent factor simply to be able to account for other development, other growth in the area. At that point and under existing conditions we also perform what are called capacity analysis. A capacity analysis is just a term that means we have some ways of measuring how well or how poorly an intersection is operating under a given volume and geometric conditions. We assign it levels of service they are called, these levels of service range, we give them letter designations from very good levels as service A where progression is good and there is very little delay time at an intersection all the way to service F which is indicative of something, of pretty sever congestive, congestive conditions. Typically under design conditions you want to design for a level of service C and that relatively busy intersections under peak conditions a level of service D is usually acceptable. We ran these analysis under existing conditions and then under projected future conditions without the project. We developed levels of service and found that there would be some changes in level of service some drops in levels of service just as a result of other development coming on line. The next task is to then identify what we believe the traffic associated with the expansion of the mall would be and superimpose it over the no build, what we call the no build or traffic conditions in the future without the project and therefore then have a snap shot of there intersections with traffic from the proposed development. We do this by referencing standard information that tells us what retail development of this size generate in terms of traffic and we applied it to the net work based on the existing travel patterns. How much of the traffic is going to come from the Northway and areas west of the site how much of the traffic is going to come from Route 9 and Quaker Road east of the site. Once we apply this traffic to the network we then run these capacities, capacity analysis again in order to find out what happens to the level of service with traffic from the proposed expansion. What we found, what our conclusions are basically is that we will need to do some improvements along Aviation Road which include widening, additional turning lanes, new traffic signal equipment in order to accommodate the increase in traffic. We have also found that conceptually this, these improvements can take place within the existing right of way along Aviation Road most of the improvements taking place on the south side along the extensive frontage that is part of the Aviation Mall. We have also found that the level of service that the State is building into the bridge improvements and the interchange improvements will remain basically the same with, with traffic from the proposed development indicating that this development is not going to take this improvement and nullify the benefits of the State improvements, they will remain. We have also found that the mitigation that we are proposing would include also improvements within the site in terms of widening the exits from the site at the what we call the west driveway which is the existing location at the Friendly's and the east driveway over near Route 9. Along with that we also proposing or it has been proposed to add a couple of additional entrances an entrance, exit configurations which would be right turn only driveways. In other words, traveling from the Northway you could turn right immediately into the site, into a level of parking or retail. Exiting this site also at this location would also be possible but you can only make a right turn out of the site and head east. The second driveway like that is also just to the east of the existing west driveway where again right turn only driveway would be provided. As Jim had mentioned the location of the site is key to maintaining acceptable levels of service along Aviation Road because from the Interstate a relatively short distance of Aviation Road has traveled where traffic can peal off into the site and then back to the Interstate, with only impacts on a relatively short distance of the roadway. Ok., we are again our conclusions are that acceptable levels of service along Aviation Road at the key intersections from the interchange down to Route 9 can be maintained with the traffic from the proposed development and assuming the mitigation measurers that we have outlined in the traffic study. Thank you. ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER-I would just like to make one more general comment, which will probably come up from the public just when we, Jim mentioned when we did have a meeting with a member, probably about seventy members of the Queensbury Citizens Group in the High school auditorium a week and a half ago which was very helpful, when, it was about an hour and a half and unlike a SEQRA public hearing that was a question and answer period where a lot of issues were out on a table and I think a lot of people the fact that they did not come tonight is probably an indication that they were satisfied with the answers. A lot of times with a project of this size it is a matter of really describing just what is proposed in detail so that everyone understands what is proposed. We thought that, that was effective. One of the questions that was frequently asked at that meeting was why is Pyramid proposing to expand this if we all know that there are vacancies now? And that is just something that I would expect to come up tonight and the answer to that simply is that, this is a twenty plus year facility that has had some upgrade since then but it is time that all of us as residents know that the mall could use to be modernized and upgraded and to attract the kind of tenants that Pyramid expects to attract they need to make this substantial investment which is estimated at approximately one hundred million dollars and thorough this process we expect to get an approval and that they will make this investment in our community and we expect that there will be very positive benefits. Before you open this public hearing if any of the members of the boards want to ask us questions we are available other wise we will sit down and shut up. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Any questions from the Town Board? Members, back to the Planning Board, Craig? PLANNING BOARD CHAIRMAN CRAIG MACEWAN-Not yet. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok. We are going to open the floor then to the public for any public input, I would ask that you, excuse me, come to the front table, give your name and lets hear what you have to say. So, the floor is yours, lets see the hands. Yes, Sir. MR. BOB ORLANDO-My name is Bob Orlando and I am the General Manager at Aviation Mall. It gives me great pleasure to come before you this evening and speak about our upcoming expansion. In talking to our customers what they have told us is that they are looking for choices and convenience and as we also speak with the retail community out there, they have told us if you build it we will come. By bringing these two groups together the benefits to this area are many. Our three level concept is a unique design that is going to help us attract the national retailers that we are looking for in this project. And the diverse tenant mix that we can attract is going to keep the local customers here as well as attract new customers coming to the Mall and to the other businesses in our area. So this should show also a nice increase for them as well. In conclusion I would just like to say that from where I sit this is a great project and I see a wonderful positive impact on the entire community and I am looking very much forward to being a part of it. Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thank you, Bob. Anyone else? Gentlemen, ok, pick a winner there. DR. MARK HOFFMAN-Hi, I am Mark Hoffman from Fox Hollow Lane. I was at the meeting that Mr. Lapper spoke of and it was very useful, we learned a lot about the project. I have a few comments, first of all I see this as an important step for Queensbury and I think that we should look at it as an opportunity. As with many opportunities it is an opportunity for improvement or it is an opportunity to make mistakes and I think that what we want to do is try to focus our efforts on making sure that with an investment of this amount that will have a profound impact on the Town for the foreseeable future that it really is something that will be a centerpiece of what we want our Town to look like and feel like and in that regard I had a few comments. First of all I would praise the developers for the use of existing commercial space rather than building into open space, I think the multi level parking is a big plus, something we have not seen much in this area but it is, I think it is a plus in terms of minimizing expansion into open space and maximizing the esthetic features. Just for the sake of accuracy in terms of looking at what the economic benefits are we just in fairness we have to subtract out from those figures what would be lost by the three existing businesses which have been closed as the result of potentially some additional businesses also that will be closed out. In terms of some esthetic features we have to recognize that this is the major entrance to the Town of Queensbury, and we want to create a certain image a certain feel when people get off that Northway or cross the Northway and come into the center of Queensbury. In that regard I noticed that there is surface parking which appears to be built right out to Aviation Road. I think that most people that are interested in the esthetics of community development now feel that it is best to try to move parking facilities as far away from the road as possible so as to minimize visual impact of, so the people that are on the street of looking at a parking lot. Our group and I think many people in Queensbury are concerned about the bicycle and pedestrian access and safety, the plans the sketches that we have seen a couple of weeks ago did not appear to include any sidewalks along the entrances into the mall. I think that would be an important addition it is hard to predict how many people will actually walk to the mall but I can guarantee they will not walk to the mall if there is no sidewalks and they are going to get run over if they try to do it. Similarly in addition to the entrances to the mall I think it is important to maintain and try to improve sidewalk and bicycle throughways along Aviation Road. Currently there is very narrow sidewalk in front of the mall it is not shoveled in the winter its not particularly kept up there is dirt allover the place and broken glass during much of the rest of the year. Very difficult and unsightly and unpleasant for people to walk along there again this is the main street of Queensbury so to speak I think we should try to create a more attractive and hospitable milieu in that area. So, I would encourage that any construction road widening whatever that, that include bicycle lanes and also expanded sidewalks which would be shoveled and maintained in the winter. In that regard also there will be some widening of Aviation Road, the turn lanes and so forth. As it is now, it is difficult for people to safely cross Aviation Road by foot or by bicycle or by car for that matter and the areas of particular concern of course by the entrances and exits of the mall but also in crossing the Northway. There really, the also the intersection of Route 9 and Aviation Road is virtually impossible to safely cross by foot or bicycle. We need to look at trying to develop a plan that would let people safely cross those roads. I do not know how to do it, it may require I know that in the process of improving the vehicular access that there may be some signal changes required we may need to look at pedestrian signalization also and it becomes even more important as the roads get widened and it gets more and more difficult to navigate those roads. I know that the Pyramid group is looking at a bicycle path to get people access from the Aviation Road area into the Coles Woods area which I think is a plus but I think we also need to maintain access and pedestrian safety along Aviation Road also. Architecturally I saw very preliminary sketches which basically presented the mall as a black box. Which is kind of the way malls are, the whole concept of a mall is that it is not something that interacts with the surrounding community. You go there you park and then you go inside and you are in this mall environment once you are inside and that is sort of the way malls are. But I think perhaps we could attempt to temper that whole think, that whole concept by creating an architectural type of scheme so that it has a more inviting or more interactive sort of texture between the mall and the surrounding community. In terms of traffic, to some extent maybe we have to take the engineers analysis on faith, I am a little bit confused about some of the discussions, he talks about maintaining existing levels of service and I am not sure exactly what he means by that. Whether he is talking about what exists now prior to the State renovations or is he talking, what the definition of an existing level of service is, because I think most people would agree that the pre-widening status of Aviation Road prior to the widening of the bridge was not an acceptable level of service. So, if they are talking about maintaining some level of service which currently exists that would appear maybe not to be acceptable. He talked about peak hours and Saturday hours and so forth I would like to know what time of year those were checked. Obviously, there is, if you do that in February you are going to get much different results than if you do it during Christmas Shopping Season or if you do it during the peak tourist season. Obviously we want to orient the traffic study toward the busiest time of year because that is when we are going to have most of the trouble. Also, one of the things that I have noticed about traffic, from in the Aviation Mall area is particularly the stretch between Route 9 and the entrance to Aviation Mall which is closest to Route 9 tends to be very congested and the traffic from that tends to back up into Route 9 particularly again during the heavy shopping seasons. I think that relates partly to the very close distance between the entrance, that entrance to Aviation Mall and Route 9. I am wondering if there is going to be anything done to address that problem? I think those were the main issues again I think this is a major opportunity for the community and for Aviation Mall and I think with the amount of time and effort and investment that is being put into it that both parties need to make absolutely sure that we do it right. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Doctor? DR. PAUL ABESS-My name is Paul Abess I am also from Queensbury. I am a member of the Citizens for Queensbury also as Mark is, Mark stole most of my thunder a lot of the comments that he said I was going to say similar things. One point is, is that Citizens for Queensbury appointed me to chair a committee that will help develop more safe assess, non motorized access to the mall and other areas and I want to put a good word in for Pyramid and their local Attorney representing them, John Lapper, he has worked with me and I know he is going to continue to work, Pyramid seems very receptive and accommodating and I will just show you if! could on the map how far we have gotten already. One of the goals the objectives of the Citizens for Queensbury has been to really take advantage of the reconstruction of the bridge and maybe some of you are aware of the fact that the bridge is going to have a five foot pedestrian lane and a five foot bicycle lane on both sides of the bridge. The bridge ends right about here which is right about, just before the exit off of the Northway onto Aviation Road. Right here by the corner it has been proposed that there be an entrance way because it seems a real shame now that since the northwest Queensbury, the western part of Queensbury has the great, has a lot of residential development in it and there is obviously a lot of kids and a lot of their parents would love to feel that they have a relatively safe route from Queensbury and this side of Queensbury School and this side of Queensbury to not only get into the mall but also to go beyond the mall and get into Coles Woods. Coles Woods I have been working with Chuck Maze, Director of the YMCA and we are going to get together with Glens Falls representatives and Coles Woods representatives and we are planning on having the non motorized trail to continue through Coles Woods to the YMCA so it will make that available to Crandall Park and of course once you get into the, more toward the center of Glens Falls its safe and there is less high speed traffic, and less traffic. So, we think it would be a real good development to be able to have a safe route from this side, this area of Queensbury basically into Glens Falls and from Glens Falls in the other direction. Right now the proposed route, we are still working on it we are not really totally satisfied with what has been proposed but, it will come in here at the corner where the on grade parking is and it will follow pretty much along where you see these trees. There is a fence there to keep the safety or the Northway I believe it is ninety feet and it will follow down through the back you could enter into the main entrance here if you were going to the mall or you could continue on beyond it and to enter into Coles Woods in this area. So, in essence I just want to put a good word in for Pyramid that they are making some efforts to accommodate a request from the Citizens. I do have one question also, it was mentioned a couple of times on two of the exits that there was a right only turn to get out is that to the, the two end exits and the center exit you can turn left because what is the way to get to Exit 19 if you are leaving the mall? ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER -. . . traffic lights. . . SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Yes, Sir. DR. JOHN SCHUTZ-My name is John Schutz and I am speaking in favor of the mall expansion trusting in the good efforts of our town ability to have an extension built to monitor and to develop properly and following up on Doctor Hoffman and Doctor Abess's comments which really put the Citizens Committee on the interest of our Queensbury Community Citizenry in the development of the mall to be done properly. I would speak as a personal, as a private citizen and a resident and say that my only request is for my family that there be a cheese cake factory restaurant and then as a professional and a business person I would say as a feed back from people I have spoken to in my office and from staff they would really like to see macaroni grill and so it sounds like restaurants are in order but more specifically and more seriously I would speak as President of the Queensbury Business Association. I have noted that everyone that I have spoken to in the Queensbury Business Association has spoken very positively about the expansion and I have heard no negative comments so I would say that we are very fortunate to have this kind of development offered to us and I would hope that we will do everything in our power to make sure it turns out properly and in the best interests of all. Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you, John. Ok, next Yes Sir? MR. ROLLY MERRILL-My name is RoLLy Merrill, I represent Bradmark Communications My company operates six radio stations locally here and we have offices and studios on Everts Avenue in Queensbury. I would like to express Bradmarks excitement and support of this proposal for expansion of Aviation Mall we see it as a great opportunity to expand our business in this area. We have had a super association with Aviation Mall over the years it has been exciting for us to see some of the cosmetic changes in the expansion that they had a few years ago. Many times people will ask the question well if we bring in more of these national stores and businesses do they really offer anything for a local business such as our radio stations? I am here to tell you that I believe that many of them will, that there is a track record of that in this market place and it is something that would be exciting that would be helpful to our business and we would be very happy to share with our listeners the new things, the new opportunities that are available at Aviation Mall. Anything from what the stores have to offer to the employment opportunities that are available at the new stores. But, 1. C. Penny's and Sears both have regularly spend good advertising dollars with Bradmark and we are excited to see the opportunity for more of that to happen. The same thing happened when Kmart opened down the street on Quaker Road, a lot of people thought that again, it would knock out a lot of local businesses and what opportunity would it present for a business such as ours. I would like to say that it seems as though that the local business people like Livingston Furniture that is right there on that corner has benefited very well from that new facility over the last few years and we have done well with advertising dollars that we have received from the Kmart and again from the anchor stores at the Aviation Mall the Sears, and the Penny's, Caldor didn't, they are not with us anymore, but they used the newspaper? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Is this a paid advertisement? Are you done yet? MR. MERRILL-We really think that this is something exciting we encourage it, we certainly hope that everyone here will be you know, will scrutinize the plans to make sure that it is all in the best interest of the citizens of Queensbury which I am one. But, as far as the business end of it all goes, Bradmark is very excited about this and I will just say on a personal note I lived in Guilderland twenty years ago when Crossgates mall was proposed there was a lot of talk at that time, significant opposition at that time and I always felt that, that would be a facility that would add to Guilderland and I think it has proven itself over the years now the last ten or fifteen years that it has been open in Guilderland that is has had a very positive impact on that community. I think what we are talking about here and what Aviation Mall can become is very similar to a Crossgates type mall a very destination type location. It is going to draw people not only from our immediate area but from the Vermont's and the Saratoga's and the Albany's and I think that is going to be very beneficial to the community. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-OK, anyone else? Yes, Sir. MR. FRED TROELSTRA -Good evening for the record Fred Troelstra is partner, owner of the Silo. We are currently an adjoining landowner if you will, separated only by Aviation Road and I want to speak personally on a note that I feel the same that the area could definitely use an enhancement to the mall. I feel that beginning with the crown jewel of this particular area being at the foothills of the Adirondacks one thing I question and Rolly and I are going to have a debate later is that recently we also heard that Crossgates is going through I do not know the dollar figure but a major expansion there to me that seems like it can be a competitive nature between the two malls that Pyramid has. A few of the comments that I have is it may sound derogatory in nature but we are in the business of landscaping we do business with the Pyramid company right now and my personal opinion on a scale of one to ten on the landscaping it is falling less than five. We all know that it has been there for a number of years we have been involved in the ground floor in the landscaping there. We have been involved recently with the latest mall expansion. I think it was a good effort on Pyramids part to bring in some quality plants, enhancing what was there and I would like to think the LA Group that I have got to comment to, did a great job on the renditions, my hat is off to them there. If it only comes out to look like that. As Mr. Hoffman said in the beginning there is a lot of asphalt and it is going to be close to the road so lets hope that with some effort there on Pyramids part that it is going to look like a inviting gateway off the Northway. My, a question I have with the latest development there of the expansion of 1. C. Penny what happen to the water main, did they move that significantly far enough away, I am not familiar with that? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That is going to have to be moved again as I understand it, there will be a second move. MR. TROELSTRA-OK. And are they involving the lands of Niagara Mohawk there, that's wasn't that a right of way through there, it was just a water line right of way. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yea, I do not believe that this is going to encroach upon Nimo property at all. MR. TROELSTRA-That upper elevation for parking the right turns only is that parking separate from, can they, can people get from the upper elevation down to the lower elevations of parking? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-My answer to that I believe is yes. MR. TROELSTRA-Ok, so anybody pulling in off the Northway making a right turn into the mall is not confined to making a right turn only out of that area? SUPERVISOR CHAMP ANGE-No. MR. TROELSTRA-Ok, he or she can get to the light? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yes. There is perimeter roadway there to get you there. MR. TROELSTRA-OK. So, has there been consideration then, I will lead to this, for a light at the opposite side of Carlton Drive, to eliminate right turns only, right turns only in concept in theory yea, great, do the people use it take a look at Burger King, take a look at Burger King, the other night there was a Bus straddling three of those lanes make a left turn out. The east traffic as Mr. Hoffman has questioned, there is a lot of rumblings I am going to make it public then of what I have heard, scuttle butt is great, that all these houses on the north side of Old Aviation Road are under contract? Nobles has been approached, this, a lot of discussion has been going on out side of these four walls. Is there can it be mentioned that there is going to be plans to enhance Old Aviation Road? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I am not in a position to answer that particular question. I can agree with you that the scuttle butt is out there and I understand that there has been some inquiries relative to purchase of some property on Old Aviation Road. Where we go with that as a Town I am not in a position to answer that at this stage. MR. TROELSTRA-But, there is some impact here. Is that an impact to the traffic that is, is that a part of this over all concept that there is an option for traffic to be diverted over the Old Aviation Road? EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROUND-It is not a part of this project, right now. MR. TROELSTRA-OK. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-It could happen in the future the answer would be yes. It is not a part of this project but it could happen down the road. That has been on the table for the last four years as I remember it. MR. TROELSTRA-Yea, but recently there has been a lot going on. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yea, and I understand that, I understand that. MR. TROELSTRA-So, addressing the traffic east bound off out of the mall on Aviation Road there is no, there is no plan at this point with the increased traffic to elevate and in this particular case the left turn going north on nine. There is nothing SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I will try and answer, try to answer that question again. I think what we are seeing from the applicant is staying within a right of way of two fifty four that is what they have come back with that is what is on the books today. Is there a plan in place for the future of Old Aviation Road, Greenway corridor whatever we want to call it, again that plan is as it was back three years ago, four years ago there is more activity, I understand someone here is with us tonight had called me a month ago and had indicated that there were people out there interested in getting options on their property. Has the Town Board made any commitment to the direction of acquiring that property, and moving forward with that road as of this date, I am not go say as far as I am concerned as a Supervisor the answer to that is no, I will let the rest of the board speak for themselves. (Board members nodded no.) MR. TROELSTRA-Nothing, it sounded like it was more on a private basis as adverse to the Town putting offers out for those properties. So, again to reiterate the east bound traffic on Aviation Road making a left turn on Route 9 there is nothing that has been done to enhance that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-You said it, ok, there is some activity out there in making a purchase of some of those properties, now in terms of where that goes from this date on lets be realistic the reality of the thing says that the cost associated with that project would be in the past absorbed by the Town ok, with State and Federal funding supporting about eighty to eighty five percent of that. We have got a new situation that exists today. Aviation Mall we got a problem with some traffic, will the board and the Planning Board accept the traffic at a level that it is at now, to return to that level, I am not in a position to judge that right now. Will it take a Greenway corridor to successfully complete this project, it may and I am being very honest with you. Are we looking at it as a Town Board as of today or yesterday, the answer to that is no, will we look at it in the future, my answer to that would be yes. But, I cannot answer your question, is that being considered, it is too early in the stage to really make that determination as far as I am concerned. MR. TROELSTRA-Well, I appreciate the candor and again, just to reiterate, I think that the concept of expanding the mall is a great one and I feel again on a personal note that it needs a shot in the arm we all have seen the expansions of and I am sure that Pyramid has seen the competition the ... mall in Rutland has taken some of the traffic away and it to me would be a favorable aspect for this Town. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-How about next, do we have any others who would like to make, yes, Sir, Scott. MR. SCOTT SOPCZYK-My name is Scott Sopczyk I am the, with the Adirondack Glens Falls Transportation Council I just wanted to comment to support the Town and the Planning Board in the effort that they have shown in doing this, I think this is a great effort in terms of public involvement in this whole planning process. I have review the draft environmental, the traffic impact study and the comments that Sear Brown made and basic, it would concur with most of those comments. We have a few comments we will submit in writing and I will not repeat those. There is just one thing in particular I just want to point to. I wanted to be sure that the level of truck traffic on Aviation Road is properly considered. Not only is Aviation Road a major entrance to Queensbury but it is also a major entrance for businesses and industries in Glens Falls and Washington County. And in the analysis in the traffic impact study they used a factor of their intersection of two percent heavy vehicles per lane. That seems kind of low, we have a similar analysis package in our office we use a figure of three percent and when you do that the level of service for the Glen, Aviation goes from a level D to a level E. The problem with it is there aren't any actual traffic counts currently available I guess our recommendation would be as a part of this so that what the impacts are, are known going in that there be a truck count that occur as a part of the environmental impact statement. And just adding to that vehicle traffic is the Queensbury Schools, school busses it is on a major transit route there is a lot of heavier vehicles that go into that, that will impact that intersection. So, just briefly that is my principal comment, thanks. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. ATTORNEY DAN HOGAN-Good evening, my name is Dan Hogan I have done some work in the past as an Attorney for Garden Time, also Silo also a resident of the Town of Queensbury and I guess when I was listening to some of the traffic impact I think the language that was used was conclusion was that it was acceptable level of traffic can be maintained. Well, we are not going to maintain the existing levels if we are going to increase the volume into the mall. When we are talking about the expansion of the Town of Queensbury I think we are going to be talking about an expansion that goes toward the Queensbury School the western part of the Town of Queensbury, that certainly would take into consideration when you want to exit the mall and make a left hand turn which is a western turn you are not going to do it from an existing exit where the light is closest to Route 9 you would in fact use the exit by Friendly's. If you are going to have all that increased volume making left hand turn from that portion by Friendly's then you are going to have a backup in closer to the mall. My recommendation would be if they are able to acquire the existing Convenient Store that there certainly should be consideration for placing a traffic light at that Carlton Drive Road, for two reasons. First of all if you are going to make it a right turn only that close to the exit ramp of the Northway you may have a bottle neck just by the right hand turn only, second if you want to have individuals make a left turn to get away from Route 9 in creating more Route 9 traffic then they ought to be able to do it from two access points out of the mall. Thirdly, if you are going to give a left hand turn signal or put a signal by Carlton Road you will step down the levels of traffic as they get to Route 9 and perhaps help that congestion where we have left hand turns or straight traffic both from Route 9 and also Aviation Road. So, I think that is a strong consideration to maybe look about concessions at some point about putting in an addition light, talk with the State and just look at that traffic impact not for now, because we know the proposal is, the proposal to grow this mall for twenty more years. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thanks, Dan. Dennis? SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER-Dennis Brower, Queensbury resident, County Supervisor at large for Queensbury. One question that I had for the mall planners on your proposed map here I do not see, have you approached the State for an entrance off the exit ramp of the Northway? Have you applied, have you requested any entrance? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-The traffic engineer? MR. FRANK PALUMBO-My name is Frank Palumbo I with the Sear Brown Group we reviewed the traffic analysis that is done so far. In terms of any responses from DOT at this point the applicant has not received any. DOT is still reviewing the project, they have just like everyone else until June 19th to address, to give their comments back to the Board for SEQRA.. But I do not believe that any of the plans have given that as part of the application to have a direct ramp off of the exit ramp one that would tie directly into the site, is what I heard you saying. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Yes. MR. P ALUMBO- I have not seen that in any of the proposals and I have not heard anything from DOT at this point that would head toward suggesting that. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Did you request it? MR. PALUMBO-Did I request it, no I did not request it, that would be something that we can consider in the final package that we will have at the end of the comment period as alternatives that should be considered. SUPERVISOR BROWER-I would just think it would elevate a lot of traffic coming off from Aviation Road and allow people coming north on the Northway to gain easy assess to the mall. MR. PALUMBO-Right now we have asked some, first, let me call them first level questions of the applicant to one, get certain technical aspects straight, and that would then lead to the next series of questions one of which is yours. We had to evaluate first where are all the cars coming from, what is the accurate distribution fore instance, once we have what we think is an accurate distribution work that out with the applicant then some of the next questions come. If your comment did not have the merit because the distribution were not seen in this case I am not saying that, but then we would not go to that next step of the question. But, in the our final presentation to the Board our final comment letter before the end of the comment period that is something that we can address. SUPERVISOR BROWER-My next question relates to signage, what changes in signage do you propose? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I really do not believe that we can answer that one at this point, it is too early in the game. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Its too early, ok. And finally I want to enthusiastically support the concept I think it is terrific. The site plan here that shows the elevation with all the vegetation I had to kind of smile because it sure did camouflage it. But other than that, it is going to be a tremendous benefit to our region, the sales tax revenue alone will be tremendous, the Town Board if they so desired could probably almost eliminate property taxes in the Town of Queensbury, if that was the route that they decided to follow. And I hear some encouragement from our residents here already. And it certainly SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I think they took that as a joke. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Yea, taxes going down yea, but in any case I certainly enthusiastically support the project and I know it will be a great benefit to the area and I think it is just the spark we need to boost the area as I have gone on record previously. Thank you. SUEPRVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you, Dennis. Yes, Sir. MR. JOHN MICHAELS-Hi, I am John Michaels a resident of Queensbury. I wanted to encourage the Board to proceed with this project, I whole heartily support it. I think of course the traffic is a consideration but I suggest the traffic engineers if they delete my wife's trips to Crossgates with this new mall it may take care of the problem all by itself. I whole heartily support this project. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anyone else care to speak? Yes, Sir. MR. JEFF. JACOBS-My name is Jeff Jacobs, I will keep my comments brief. I am an advocate for alternative methods of transportation that being primarily bipedal modes and bicycles and it seems to me having been a resident of Queensbury for some time that as the Town has grown and developed there has been a bit of an insensitivity to those people who need to get around in something other than a four wheeled vehicle. I would encourage the Town Boards and the Developers to please be sensitive to the needs of those people who chose not to use an automobile every time they want to go out and make the appropriate accommodations. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thank you. Anyone else? Don't be too kind to us here this evening, you know I would not want to get the wrong impression. Anything from the Town Board? I cannot believe this, how about you folks? Questions? Give your name? PLANNING BOARD MEMBER BOB VOLLARO-My name is Bob Vollaro, and I am a member of the Planning Board here. I have got something in front of me that comes out of Guilderland and its really it talks to the Pyramid petitioning for a reduction in their assessment over the last six years. I am just wondering whether in this contract or whatever we put together, whether Pyramid would accept words to the effect that said the Pyramid Company shall not petition for reduction in market value at Aviation Mall visa vi a reduction in property tax for a period often years. Now, I see in reading the impact statement there is a paragraph in there that talks to an arrangement that the Town has come up with, that may prohibit that, that enables you to go for these reductions, what's Pyramids position on holding the line for their assessment. ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER-I think that, that the full answer would we could give in an FEIS I mean that is going to take some research, but I can put on the table that over the last six years to my knowledge Pyramid has not requested a reduction in property taxes on it property taxes in Queensbury. What we have based the assessment on is what we know we are spending on the project as a fair assessment. In terms of sales taxes which is a large part of it, projected tax revenue that is based on projected sales on a per square foot basis for the new eight hundred and fifty thousand square foot addition. Pyramid has always been a big tax payer in the Town and that is what Jim Martin's numbers as to what three hundred and ninety thousand for one tax that he recited before which we have detailed is what they have historically paid and just by this kind of an investment in the project we think that what's in the DEIS is legitimate and what we expect and that is all I can really say intelligently at this point. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER VOLLARO-So there should probably be no major resistance to some sort of a clause which talks about the limitation of application for assessment reduction. ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER-I guess, what I would say we would expect that the Town would fairly assess the property and if the property is fairly assessed there is nothing to fight about but we all know there is going to be a major investment made and that would be subject to tax. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anyone else? Yes, Sir. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER GEORGE STARK-Fred, my name is George Stark, I have a question for Jim, the four hundred thousand yards of dirt Jim where would that be going? Remember the last time there was three hundred thousand and that was a big project. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER CATHERINE LABOMBARD-The time of day with the trucks? MR. JIM MARTIN-LA Group-In terms of the fill coming off from the site and that is basically in the area of the multi level parking facility along the west edge of the Northway, last time a significant amount was given to the Town for road sanding, I think that possibility remains this time. In terms of the balance, that would be taken off site would be a matter of the excavating contractor for the removal of that. I, beyond that I would have to, you know, answer that in the FEIS that is all I can offer at this time. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER STARK-Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yes, Sir. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER BOB PALING-Bob Paling from the Planning Board, one of the questions I have got is for Jim Martin so you might as well stay there. Jim, you talked about improving the looks of this aesthetically and I wondered in on the roof top you are going to have any mechanical equipment and if you are going to will it be sheltered appearance wise? MR. JIM MARTIN-It is really too, really, to say that, is a specific architectural design element, there is rooftop HV AC equipment and things like that but they are parapet wall treatments and things like that, that could be utilized to reduce the view of that, those or things that we would get into a site plan review with your board. But it is not unlike the existing treatments that you see today. But, those are design elements we will deal with at a future date. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER P ALING- The other questions have to do with traffic one is very specific, I counted five total accesses on Aviation Road, isn't it about time if that were the, the eventual plan that we did away with that left turn in only headed west? ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER-We have proposed on the plan to add a signal at that entrance and the reason that, that is there and that will all be subject to review as the project goes forward but the reason that is there is to take advantage of a gap that exists so that would only be people between, as long as the signals are coordinated and that gap exits it will get people in and reduce pressure on the other intersections and that, we think that can be useful but that is something that we will look at as part of the review. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER PALING-Now the other question that I had, has concern with in the FEIS that we have on pages thirteen and fifteen in the study. It talked about being able actually to accomplish all of the lane that you want to in this and it left it wide open but maybe an earlier conversation that we had indicated that this is up in the air as whether this is practical to have this many lanes if it is available from a right of way stand point. ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER-Well, we have looked at the right of way now, when we first drafted that we were still in the process of acquiring surveys and we have looked at the surveys and we have determined and this is of course subject to DOT and the Town to verify but we have determined that all of the additional lanes the additional turning lanes that are proposed can be constructed within existing right of way, within DOT's right of way so that no additional land has to be acquired. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER PALING-Ok, so that part we can ignore and assume that what we saw on the print can be done. ATTORNEY JOHN LAPPER-Yes. And we will verify that in the final EIS when we get to that. PLANNING BOARD MEMBER PALING-OK, Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Any other comments? Yes. Sir. MR. FRED TROELSTRA-A residual question? John have I got this straight? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-You better please, so that we can get you on record. MR. TROELSTRA-You are proposing another light at that west bound left turn only. How does that work? You are going to put a light up for left hand only traffic you have got to stop the east bound traffic to let the west bound up, the east bound has not benefit of that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Can you help us with that answer or respond to that? MR. STEVE MAFFIA-The left turn driver which only which is an entrance only which exists today, as far as the movements into that driveway now, those left turns take advantage in gaps in traffic, that are created by the existence of other traffic signals along Aviation Road. In other words when east bond traffic is stopped at the west access to the site there are openings in the traffic to allow the left turns to happen. What we are doing with suggesting the traffic signal at that location is to make a formal stop at that point which would be coordinated with the other traffic signals on Aviation Road so that when traffic is stopped at, say, the west access the east bound traffic is stopped, would also be stopped at this other driveway and left turns at both intersections would be taking place. MR. TROELSTRA-I am a licensed engineer in New York State too, but I guess I did not take that class content. Now, if that be the case I see another ingress, egress up there on the board, I am just going to step up there and just to verify it for my own information if that is another ingress, egress there. Is this what we are talking about? MR. STEVE MAFFIA-That is another one. MR. TROELSTRA-That is another one, kind of convenient for that proposed four acres that has been kind of been lying over there. Ok. Just wondering.. ok. Thanks. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Sure. Anyone else? Are we ready to close the Public Hearing at this point? Before we close just a reminder that the public comments through June 19th what has not been said here tonight obviously needs to be put in print, we will be more than happy and certainly welcome any of your comments until that date at which time it will close. So,. With that said I guess I am ready to close the public hearing and thank you again very much for joining with us this evening and I think it was a very, very valuable experience at least for Fred Champagne and I hope it was to you. Thank you. Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher