Loading...
1998-08-20 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING AUGUST 20, 1998 9:00 A.M. MTG#42 RES#318 B.H. 43-44 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR FRED CHAMPAGNE COUNCILMAN RICHARD MERRILL COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DOUGLAS IRISH COUNCILMAN PLINEY TUCKER TOWN OFFICIALS CONTROLLER, HENRY HESS, RALPH VANDUSEN PRESS POST STAR SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Opened meeting. QUEENSBURY FOREST - TOM NACE Discussion held regarding Queensbury Forest drainage. Mr. Nace noted what they would anticipate doing to best elevate the problem down in Phase III is to intercept what's coming off the hill pick it up carry it into the system put a connection in that would pick up the storm water that's generated in the area of Phase III. Noted it is worth taking a second look to see how much water they really do have and also to look at other possibilities. Councilman Tucker questioned if this could be televised with a camera to see what is going on there? Mr. Nace noted he thinks he has enough money left in original contract. After further discussion it was the decision of the board to have Mr. Nace go out during a good storm and make an inspection, to do some foot work to see if he could get a firm that does TV work to come out noting he doesn't have enough to cover the TV work itself but could cover the coordination. Supervisor Champagne noted they would need a contract. Mr. Nace to bring information back to the board. Mr. Nace noted they need to see what's wrong with the existing system and then see if there is some way you can make the existing system work with the tie in at Luzerne. Mr. Nace to bring back information to board. CRONIN ROAD - TOM NACE Discussion held regarding proposal for Cronin Road. Mr. Nace noted it includes hiring a testing agency to come in and do soil booring's justifying the depth of bedrock to see where we can get the storm line in. If it has to go into rock to put the storm line in it is better to pre-drill and blast before excavating and having the depth ahead of time would let you do that noting it is twelve hundred dollars to do the testing. The engineering is straight forward using the survey information that is available plus additional information to locate the booring's and get any additional information that's not on the plan. Prepare a set of plans for Paul to work from and profile the storm line any details for manholes etc. Survey for a map to go in and set up the construction to stake-out. Supervisor Champagne questioned if this is in all one sum. Mr. Nace, all inclusive right through construction. Supervisor Champagne asked board members if they had any further questions, board none. MOREAU WATER - SUPERVISOR HARRY GUTHEIL PRESENT, DICK DINOLFO, STATE CONTROLLER'S OFFICE, JEFF LEONARD, CPA (TAPE 1) MR. DINOLFO-A while ago both Fred and Harry approached me and asked us to help them out in this situation and be available to answer some questions. We met on occasion with both Fred and Dick from Queensbury and also with Harry to talk about some things. We've got copies of the proposed agreements we have a chance to look at them and I received it yesterday from Fred and looked at it last night. We understand the agreements the proposals have been talked about I just want to express to you the concern that Controller Mc Call would probably express to you. He is very much interested and in favor of intermunicipal cooperation from the seat that I sit in this looks like a good endeavor not only for both Towns but for the community in general. With that in mind I'm available and Jeff and I are here to answer any of your questions to try to help you out as much as we can. We understand that you have differences of opinion on what should be in this agreement and whatever resource we can provide to you we certainly would be willing to do that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-With that said, I guess I'll start out with a question that I think Dick you and I have been talking about for sometime. As we have walked through this thing for the last year and a half it's going on two years now there has been a strong feeling at least on my behalf that benefits are benefits are benefits. If I look at the cost of operating the plant at the current user number and my friend here Ralph had certainly indicated that the cost is somewhere between the neighborhood of eighty four cents a thousand. By reducing that number with an additional three hundred thousand gallons per day it's my feeling that benefit from moving off the eighty four cents a thousand to seventy eight cents a thousand over the course of the next twenty years is a major benefit to the Queensbury user. I apply that as a reduce cost to the current user spread out over time I see some relatively sizable numbers coming back to Queensbury as a result of that. In my original conversation with you Dick I just want to make sure because there was a question whether that was part of the number that we can use as a benefit to the Queensbury person. I just wanted to share your opinion coming from the Controller's Office is it viable is it reasonable to consider that as a benefit? MR. DINOLFO-I think what you pointed out is that a cost reduction is similar to a generated revenue to offset a certain expensive. I think if you can demonstrate that you can either maintain the current cost or actually lower them in the future that is a benefit to Queensbury residents and to the Town in general. I understand what you are saying and if I was looking at that and looking at those figures I would tend to agree with you that is a reasonable assumption. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Before we get to deep into the particular numbers can I just throw a premise out and just of bring us so we all have a frame of mind to work from on this. I got involved in this somewhat after it started and almost felt it was too late at the time. As I understood it the premise behind the contract was Moreau..... COUNCILMAN IRISH-The original contract? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-The original contract. This started way back when, when I first got involved which is last July or so. The premise was Moreau will pay the same price for water as Queensbury users. We use the word cooperative venture or intermunicipal cooperation as a derivative co-op is a two way type of thing one is cooperating with the other and it's happening both ways. With that in mind I think that's where the fairness doctoring comes in because we're using the F word, the fair word, quite a bit in this thing, but yet I think the obstacle we have is we can't agree where that is. What I'd like to do is go down the different components of this contract and identify where I think we see we are so we can understand Fred's point of view and what he is asking for. We are using the same the same price for water as Queensbury users. When we look at the capital the different components of this contract the capital portion I see two phases to that. One is the initial buy in and the way that the most current proposal that Queensbury has on the table really does gives Moreau allows Moreau to pay the exact same price that Queensbury paid for plant expansion which is a thousand sixty dollars per million gallons or per thousand gallons capacity. It does forgive past carrying cost Queensbury has carried that on the shelve for a while, forgives that, and it provides that the portion of that we finance for them in the future which is estimated to be fifty percent would give them full credit for the EFC rate we just re-negotiated three point five five percent. There is no dispute that's at cost with no additional cost to them and no hurt to the Queensbury taxpayer. The future buy in is the second part of the capital and there we do have a problem. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-On the present is there any problem with that Harry is to take this one chunk at a time? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're talking fairness. We're buying into a plant that's already how many years old and the future buy-in we would be buying into a plant that's so many years old plus we're going to come in and agree to help pay our share of the pump to bring it up to the fifteen million.... COIUNCILMAN MERRILL-Just taking it a little chunk at a time. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're more than happy if the contract approval reflects the three point five five rate. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Just that one portion of it. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-On the future buy-in there is seems to be a discrepancy. It is Queensbury's belief at least the last time the committee met that the future buy-in value is even though fifteen years from now somebody came in and wanted to buy a million gallons capacity it's hard to project now what that might be worked. Harry is suggesting that the plant is going to depreciate and it is going to be worth less than it is now. There is another argument that says that plant is going to out appreciate that you couldn't build a million gallons capacity for anywhere near the price we built today and the price is going to be a lot higher. With that said we don't know what the price is going to be so we peg the price at what it is now it is a million sixty thousand dollars. The committee at its meeting last week said that price plus the carrying cost that Queensbury has every year, Queensbury has an additional eleven or twelve millions gallons a day capacity that's carrying on the shelve and the cost of carrying that is three point five five percent that's what we're paying to carry that unused capacity. Because we're extending that three five five rate on the capacity Moreau wants to use it is not illogical to extend that same rate on the capacity of its keeping on the shelve. We're paying for three five five it seems very logical and that's a fair way to give them every benefit that the Queensbury taxpayer has. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I have a major problem with that Henry, that's another seven hundred and some thousand dollars you added to this contract our board is not anticipating, our board hasn't even seen this I don't think. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-All I'm trying to do I'm not trying to argue this I'm just trying to say with the presses in the room and our board in the room I think we need to know where we're coming from that's what I'm trying to do. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Back to that issue you are telling somebody that they could, carrying this thing for twenty years, pay the interest for the twenty years you are buying into a twenty year old plant plus buying into doing all the upgrades and future maintenance to it and try to sell that to somebody. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That's exactly what Queensbury is doing Harry. If we accept a premise that Moreau is suppose to pay the same price for water as Queensbury users that's exactly the price Queensbury users are paying. They are keeping it on the shelve they are maintaining it, they are keeping it, when they get to use it if they ever do that's what it has cost them. I'm using the premise that I've established the same as. Now there maybe an agreement at less than that but the offer that's on the table deals with that. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I can tell you this is an eleven hour throw in I don't consider it fair negotiating. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Harry, I don't think anywhere along here has been fair negotiating. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What we've seen is surprise after surprise. We started off and all of a sudden we found out we were going to be part of the two hundred thousand dollar upgrading the pump we didn't know that when we went in. We started off you were going to meet us in the middle of the river we agreed to go eventually go to the river bank in exchange for the transmission charge now that's been... .we can get to all that later. I'm just saying you have now added in your counter proposal another seven hundred and some thousand dollars. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I'd like to continue this, but before I do that I'd like to say one thing. We never had an agreement to reach in the middle because if we had an agreement we wouldn't be having this meeting. The fact is there has never been an agreement there have been negotiating points that have given back and forth. No agreement was ever made of five cents. No agreement was ever reached to do the middle of the river. No agreement was ever reached or we would have had a contract and would be pumping water today. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We reached the point where we were about a hundred and sixty five thousand dollars apart and I thought we were close since then I think we've been going just the other way. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I guess to keep things straight in my mind I'd like to go at these things once piece at a time rather than mixing them all up. I guess on this point, I like to hear what your opinion is on the future buy in. MR. DINOLFO- The future buy in recognizing that we haven't been part of these conversations in the past and we're only looking at it now. My gut reaction is, is that you have a plant that you built to fifteen million capacity that I think you had some intent on selling water to somebody else certainly your own town couldn't consume that much water in a year. That's what Queensbury has done over the past number of years that have built that plant I think you are trying to get yourself in a position to sell water to somebody else. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We're not trying to get ourselves in a position to give it away you understand that don't you. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I think Pliney was one of the big supporter's of saying we basically got a fifteen story building we're using three and a half stories Pliney is recognizing that yes they should want to sell water that was the whole intent of the economy of scale. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I think everybody agrees that they want to sell water. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I appreciate what everybody has done I know some people worked extremely hard on this for a long period of time. You can look at it two ways and say, look we can keep it we're going to pay our own debt service or own interest and stuff or you can say, we're going to try and sell water and really develop that capacity and hopefully someday be on the fifteen million gallons so everybody could even be paying less for your production costs. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Why don't we hear Henry out. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I don't want to jump through too many we're right on this future buy-in I think this is a critical make or break as far as Harry is concerned. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL- There is doubt about it in my mind. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-All this stuff he is reading right now is to be talked about. This committee was appointed to put together a package and we go from there. We're going to spend all morning arguing here because there are going to be other things Harry ain't going to like. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Let me just jump in here. This is new this came about as a result of a few weeks ago. I would be one that would vote against this. I think that when I signed on for a fifteen million gallon a day plant I signed on with the intent to sell water to our neighbors. I knew that it would cost Queensbury up front in order to get that plant at fifteen million. If you look down the road five, ten, twenty years from now that cost to Queensbury between now and the time and let's hope he is in here buying another million gallons in another four, five, six years to me that's where the action is. If we don't pump water south there is not an alwfullot of water that's going to go east and it sure isn't going to go west and none is going to go north. This town is setting on a fifteen million gallon a day, ten years, twenty years from now we're looking at the potential of eleven at tops, absolute tops. Now, does that Queensbury the seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars or whatever that number was as I relate that back to pumping three hundred thousand, four hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, six hundred thousand gallons and I look at the savings and the benefit to Queensbury that's where my eyes are focused. I've got to be up front and make that very clear today as I made it very clear three years ago when we built that plant. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-My question is very simple and I want to direct it to the State again. Is this a fair and reasonable requirement or isn't it is that something to expect to see in a contract of this nature or isn't it. MR. DINOLFO-I think this contract is overly complicated. I think you want to sell water, I think Moreau wants to buy water. COUNCILMAN IRISH-There is also a reason that it got to become complicated it could have been very simple. MR. DINOLFO-We've done some work on the City of Troy you probably know about that the Controller's been involved. We looked at some of their contracts they sell to seven municipalities and some of their agreements I'm just trying to remember what they said, but some of them were very simple. They will sell water to one town at whatever they charge Troy residents plus ten percent. One of them if I remember correctly said they will sell it at a buck a thousand and it increases twenty cents over a five year period another one had some dollar amounts in it too, it is a heck of a lot more simple than what you are proposing here. I think it's the complexity of this agreement that is causing concerns. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Do you think that they determine their cost to the City of Troy before they signed those contracts? Do you think the City of Troy is selling water at below their costs? MR. DINOLFO-No, I don't think so. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Then you are right it could be a very simple contract. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We got one that we got with South Glens Falls very simple I've got copies of probably four or five other municipalities. I think this all started on a graph that was presented to the Town of Moreau and it seems to have a lot of similarities to the contract on a sewer. Some of the language is similar to the sewer one I think between the City of Glens Falls and the Town of Queensbury so I think that's where it all started. When you got all this reconstruction language and future upgrades and all that it makes it more complicated that's nothing we brought to the table we worked off that original draft. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry we had a deal in February we walked out of your building with a deal. Probably the same night you guys started nickel and diming it the thing again. You come in here and told us you are going to Saratoga Water and you went. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We had two board members request to go back to Saratoga. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Well, whatever. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We thought we went out of there with a mutual understanding Henry was going to work up some new numbers based on the river crossing. Actually we were going to end up paying more for the, the exposure there was we could of paid up more than the river crossing actually cost our intent on that certainly hasn't changed. CONTROLLER, HESS-Just to explain that. You were going to pay more than the river crossing at cost because that's when we also gave back the transmission there were other costs. There has been no concealing on my part throughout my involvement with this that we're dealing with cost it is my goal to make sure Queensbury recovers its cost in one way or the other. We constructed a lot of alternatives to give you different ways to justify it, but we never dealt with anything at less than full cost that's where we're stuck now. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're not looking for you to sell water to us we just want something that is reasonable. The last proposal you add in seven hundred and fifty two thousand dollars to it..... CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That's our cost. You see reasonable is a value judgment that has no quini- calculation, cost does. Cost has a calculation you can bring it right to the penny and that's what we're trying to do. What we're doing we're taking cost and then talking about that is too much, but cost is cost that was the whole premise. Let me just go to 0 & M and mention it because that's not a hard point. 0 & M the contract that we're talking about and the one we talked about all along has a formula in it. Agreed it is over complicated because it was designed to assure Moreau that they would never pay more than induction cost for the water. It doesn't have cost plus ten percent, it doesn't have a fixed price, it assures them they will pay no more than cost. It has no town overhead, it doesn't pay for our Accounts Receivable Department, it doesn't pay for our Accounts Payable, it doesn't pay for the payroll in preparation for the Water Department none of those factors are built in. There is no profit built in so it is strictly at cost of production at the end of the year it's balanced out if we over budgeted we get it back. 0 & M is not the question the town is really to the extent that it subsidizes it's water operation through town overhead and subsidizes roads through town overhead. Transmission. Early in the negotiations a five cent per gallon transmission factor was put in and along the way it was negotiated out like Harry says because we went into some second level surcharges where we were going to recover at a different way. We were dealing with cost and saying we need to get that back. The fact is five cents, Ralph and I still haven't come to an exact agreement on this. I calculate out that the cost is probably somewhere above a dime it goes as high as fifteen cents. Ralph said we can't justify a nickel, but a nickel is what we're willing to live with that was a number that was thrown on the table a long time ago. Really the concept behind that is we're going to produce three hundred thousand gallons it is going to sit in a tank down at our place. Moreau has a river crossing up there that needs the water to get into it so they can get it from one place to the other. If we're selling water at cost there is no cost built into the formula to get the water there. We are willing to do one of two things. Charge them the nickel or secondly take a fair portion of transmission costs throw it into the formula because there is a cost to doing that there is not only a cost there is a value of getting the water to the plant from the river crossing. There is a value and a cost the cost we pay the nickel even though I think it is really low. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I believe that's a little bit less than what me as a water user in Queensbury pays to get the water to my house correct? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It's a lot less. There is another factor here that we haven't calculated in I consider it a gift factor. Queensbury is building an infrastructure that has a insignificant value to any other user other than getting water to Moreau's pipe and that hasn't been calculated into the nickel. If we were to take those costs and put it into the transmission and then divide it back the cost is going to be significantly higher than a nickel we're just going to do that we're giving that away. That infrastructure cost wasn't even calculated in to come up with my thirteen or sixteen cents and the nickel we haven't agreed on there is no agreement the nickel we have been negotiating from. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Dick to explain that a little bit further and Henry is to get the water down from where we are now hundred and seventy thousand dollars there the board has agreed to do that. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It's a hundred and seventy up front if the volume goes up then there is another couple hundred..... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Just to give you some background prior contracts and discussion on that same thing some of that money I believe was in there it was going to be fifty cents a thousand gallons charged in there for the body of which included an excess payment some of that money was being raised. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That was off the table long ago. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That is true that was included. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That was in the surcharge. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That's where we came out I think that hundred and sixty five thousand dollar shortage. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That's some of the offers that were rejected right? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Then we agreed to cap it. COUNCILMAN IRISH-They were all rejected. CONTROLLER, HESS-They were offers that were rejected which makes them mute I think. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That one there was a concern about that it would exceed. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry whose doing the talking for you people? A guy sat right here you were here when they told us that you were going to go to Saratoga Water and get your water there you sat right here and told us that and got up and walked out of here who is talking for the Town of Moreau? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I'm not sure what you mean on that Pliney. I don't think I got up and walked out of any meeting and said we're going to Saratoga Water. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Who is the Democrat... ... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Our board requested to meet with them and I wrote the letter upon their direction. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Was it Bowman? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I don't remember that. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Let me just finish up. This is the last part of this summary I've got it deals with the river crossing. Once you get to the end of this infrastructure that we're building specifically to get water to the rivers edge there is a river crossing. While originally the town had dealt with the idea of building half of that on the advice of counsel there is really no possible way that could... .there is nobody at the other end of the river that could conceivably build in our water district counsel says that's pretty questionable I think you are going to run into a problem with that. Moreau picks up and they've been burden with the cost of putting together a way to get it across the river that's where their water district if you want to call it starts at the edge of the river so they build and maintain that. Queensbury to facilitate that to facilitate their cash flow has agreed to finance and put up cash for up to half of that up to three hundred and ten or whatever is thousand dollars and charge them the interest we're going to lose by taking out of a bank deposit which is five and a quarter percent right now, actually we're getting more than that on some of our investment it was agreed at five and a quarter percent. If we take the money out of the bank to lend it to them cause they didn't want to go out and bond any place else that's what we would charge them to do that they then would pay us back over a twenty year period that's really the transaction as I see it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Henry in regard to that one, I told Fred we could pay cash for the river crossing and not even mix that into the contract and pay you less to assume more of your EFC financing and that's not costing you...... CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-If the board agrees to do that yeah you could do that if the board agreed the board would talk about that. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That would become a non-issue if we just give you less cash up front we pay for the river crossing. COUNCILMAN IRISH-The whole thing would be a non-issue if you guys paid cash up front for the whole thing. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Your are asking us now to pay for twenty years on future buy ins. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We're going to pay it if you don't pay it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're paying it now on fifteen million gallons. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Yeah, but we're going to continue to pay it. Why should we sit on a million gallons for you guys and pay the interest that we got to pay? If you want the million gallons buy it now or pay the interest on it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We don't want to buy two million gallons up front now when we are using three hundred thousand gallons a day. If we're going to invest.... COUNCILMAN TUCKER-You want us to sit on it for you. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL- Y ou people agreed to that right along all of a sudden this is something new. We've been working with the new board since January that's the first we heard of it when this came to my desk. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I think all the way along the new board has said that Moreau is not going to pay one cent less than Queensbury, however, you get to that that's where we're coming frorn. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're hoping that you are looking at the big picture in hopes that you want to sell water to other communities. I can tell you other communities are also watching to see how this thing goes together. We've been watching to see how things go with Hudson Falls they are obviously watching to see what we're doing likewise with Glens Falls. I'm sure Lake George was until they got their grant you've got to see both sides of the picture. What we're looking at is coming up with a million bucks buy-in if we buy the first million gallons right up front whether it be cash or finance. We're looking at seven hundred and some thousand dollars I think for a river crossing, six hundred and some thousand. You've got a million sixty thousand for the buy-in. You've got over six hundred thousand for the river crossing. We've got now around one point seven million dollars invested to buy water from Queensbury. Then if we buy the other million gallons we're into two point seven million dollars invested to buy water from Queensbury. TAPE TURNED (TAPE 2) SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL- So basically its costing us money also to buy from Queensbury. It's not just want you've spent it's what we've got to spend to get to that point also. We're making a substantial commitment of which you people would have the benefit of saying, gee we might be able to sell up to two million gallons of water a day to another municipality. That's the whole concept of the economy of scale along with that I think you would save something like sixty-two thousand dollars a year in 0 & M charge and that was based on just three hundred thousand gallons a day so the sooner you start selling water to a lot of people everybody can win. But if you don't sell to anybody you are going to be paying this seven hundred and something thousand dollars just on a million gallons plus the other nine million maybe that you are not using. If you don't sell to anybody you are stuck with the whole big doe until however long it may take to reach that capacity. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-If I could talk about the economy of scale for a minute. I see obviously Harry and I are on a different sides of the fence here so I see it a whole different way. We're looking to participate in his three hundred thousand gallons a day. At the same time the minute that kicks in he is participating in our three million gallons a day. He is participating in if we sell water to Hudson Falls their eight hundred thousand gallons or million gallons a day that he gets at no additional charge. The economy of scale he says he is investigating in a million seven its causing him to do business with Queensbury I don't imagine he is going to buy a plant and start pumping three hundred thousand gallons a day from any source for less than that. He is buying a million gallons capacity at a rate that we had to spend fifteen times that to get. I mean we got fifteen times that invested to put it on the shelf so there is an economy of scale that's going the other way that I think is. .. . I think Moreau is getting ten times the economy of scale I can prove that their getting financial ten times the economy of scale that we'll ever benefit from selling water to Moreau. I think at cost we should sell ever drop we can get from Moreau but the economy of scale you are getting our three million we're getting your three hundred thousand and you are getting what ever else we sell to anybody else I think that's a great benefit to you Harry. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I'll just clarify one point though. We're talking about a sixty-two thousand dollar a year savings..... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL- That's just on three hundred thousand gallons. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-We would use that to offset the hundred and seventy thousand that we got to commit for infrastructure. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're not bringing in two million gallons or a million gallons up front thinking we're only going to use three hundred thousand gallons a day otherwise we wouldn't even be asking for the options. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I'm just saying from my interpretation that's how we justify the hundred and seventy thousand. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We wouldn't be putting a sixteen inch pipe across the river if we thought we were only going to use three hundred thousand gallons a day. That' the growth that's going to be in Saratoga County we got the raw land and stuff it's just a question of when it happens. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Getting back to the pay cash for the river crossing rather than taking the half million dollars... principal. That's a legitimate case is that correct there is nothing in that the Controller's Office would argue by shifting that half million to the river crossing rather than reducing it down the principal of the plant. In other words taking that three point five five interest and applying it to the eight hundred thousand or whatever the number might be. MR. DINOLFO-I think you are going to have to give me a little more information on this particular.... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-The direction now that I see I'm not sure that the board is all together on this, but the direction I see is to take the half a million dollars that he's coming in with. . ... COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Five hundred and thirty thousand... ... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Five hundred and thirty thousand dollars rather than putting that down as a plant buy-in..... COUNCILMAN MERRILL-To reduce that by three hundred and ten. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-To reduce that yes for that half the river crossing we take that chunk that he is giving us the five thirty and we apply that to the river crossing. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-We're financing eighty percent of the buy-in instead of fifty that's really all we're doing. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-There is no extra cost to you right? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Correct. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Why isn't it an extra cost? MR. DINOLFO- To answer your question if there is no problem with the EFC financing to do it then I don't see a problem with it. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-But, that's not how you pull this deal out. If that were the deal maker..... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Would there be any extra cost to you for that? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-No there wouldn't be. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Why? They buy in we got the money invested in that plant right now. There is suppose to be a million dollar buy in which reduces the cost of that plant which reduces it for me and Moreau. If you take that money and invest it in the river crossing that money is out there again. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I guess the analogy, I would have to say if we were to sell the whole plant to them on that basis we wouldn't have a debt service, we wouldn't have any debt, we wouldn't have any problem that would make sense because you just transfer the plant and you transfer the debt and Moreau would pick up the whole thing so any portion of that the same philosophy applies. Where it affects I don't think it affects your cost it affects, I mean we just went out to the taxpayers and said, we save you a million three or whatever it was. To the extent that we share that for Moreau we're cutting that number down we're gaining it back in another transaction. We're giving up two hundred thousand dollars in interest cost to gain something else on the water side. I don't think that does cost you more money you can do that and break even you could sell the whole plant that way. COUNCILMAN GUTHEIL-Pliney if you owned it with no debt then you would be losing that money. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-If we take that million dollars and pay down our debt right away pay down a million dollars on the debt right away that makes it cheaper for us to own that water plant. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It does except they are paying us the million dollars and the debt service they are also paying the three point five five. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-They are paying the interest. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-They are paying the interest so it doesn't..... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're just assuming your payments basically. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-But that's one of the reasons we altered the formula that they wouldn't get that for twenty years they get it until two thousand fifteen because that's when the debt expires beyond that it would cost us money. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That's when our debt expires right? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-So it doesn't cost you money to do that.. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Okay, you've got me convinced for just a moment. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-What we're talking about would be financing eighty percent they would assume the carrying cost on that eighty percent. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Which would come offfrom our cost. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-One hand washing the other. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Let me just point out that's one of the problems in this transaction. There is a proposal on the table which is all inclusive it is not a smorgasbord it is a menu you buy the meal or you go to another restaurant. What we tend to do is look at this as a smorgasbord and say we're agreeing on this, are we set on it, but there are other things in the contract that affect it. If we're going to a consensus on one issue you can't do it. That's where we got into too many problems in the past you know Harry's memory is too good. He remembers the nickel, he remembers the fifty cents, but they were parts of cohesive units. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I understand that. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think this is sort of a stand alone issue here. COUNCILMAN IRISH-It affects the rest of the contract how it is shaped. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I'll tell you why it affects it. We're cutting our three five five and sharing with them in affect we're sharing it on something that doesn't affect the contract that three eighty. We agreed up front we're going to do fifty percent financing now we're sharing we're going to go eighty percent financing, does it cost you not really. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I don't like that word, not really it is either yes or no. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It depends on how you look at it. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-He is talking like an attorney now. CONROLLER MR. HESS- From a financial point of view I can show you either way, I guess that's what I'm saying. Where it comes in is if you are getting every benefit that we get from EFC the opposite side of that coin is the cost we have from EFC which is the carrying cost of keeping that million gallons on the shelf that you don't want to use. We're paying three fifty five. . . COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That's a different issue. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It's not. If they were paying us five percent for that we could offset to that so it's directly related. Are you getting our cost of capital or aren't you? SUPERVISOR GUTHIEL-What I'm saying Henry where are the buyers that are going to take ten million gallons of water away from you and pay the cost for future use that might not be twenty years down the road you've got to be realistic where are those people that are going to do that? COUNCILMAN IRISH-The flip side to that Harry is right now nobody is bitching about the price of water that they are paying. But if we sell it for less than they are paying you can bet your neck they are going to be bitching. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We don't want you to be selling for less. We're just looking for a cooperative thing like Henry said we've got an investment in the river crossing that is something we have to raise seven hundred, six hundred and something thousand dollars. If you are going to look at the whole smorgasbord and the whole menu we've got these cost also. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I would just like to add to that it's in our contract agreement with the city. We bought in with our sewer contract I think it was eighty five cents a thousand back then today it's up to about a dollar thirty five a thousand. I think that there are ways of putting some adjustments in there over the course of five years, ten years, twenty years in terms of what our cost are. It may not be three point five five, but maybe there is something there that we can add to that as additional buy ins occur so we need to take a look at that. Now that were back into interest rates that are applied to your cost that puts a little bit of a different spin on it then it did back at fifty cents a thousand. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-You people already agreed refinancing we were willing to pass the benefit on to you am I correct? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We are. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We didn't ask for anything more than was on the table. You people were willing to save that million gallons for us with the idea that we are putting this money on the river crossing we are investing in a sixteen inch pipe. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-If that's an issue and your point is well taken whose out there waiting. If you are not fearful that we got somebody else to sell leave us sit here and don't reserve for yourself and negotiate a price when the time comes. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It wouldn't be fair to our people to put that much money and pipe and stuff not knowing if the water will be there. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-But it is fair for us to hold it for you without.... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Pliney we're not asking to hold it for twenty years. The language in there was triggered that once you reach thirteen million gallons I think we would have so many days to say yes we want the million gallons. We didn't leave you guys striped on that thing. In year five you could come to us and say, we've got a buyer you guys got to act now does anybody remember that language? BOARD-Yes. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-So your board in good faith said we need a trigger mechanism and that was in there. COUNCILMAN IRISH-That was in a proposal you hadn't accepted you came back with a counter proposal. You want to pick and choose like Henry says the best of every contract and each of those proposals I'll call them are based on the entire proposal not on one particular part of it and they are integral to each other. You can't take the best of what you like here and move it over here without affecting something somewhere. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-The other side of the coin is if we reach thirteen and a half or whatever the number is that triggers that maybe the buyer out there has got four million dollars for that to. . . . pass it I don't know whose going to have it maybe we need it badly I mean I don't know what the situation is but that could happen twelve or fifteen years down the road. I'm one that believes that that water is not going to depreciate I think the price of that capacity is going to appreciate. What we're saying is if we got a buyer at four million Harry is going to able to buy it for a million six or a million sixty thousand because we're extending that cost of capital if he wants it on the shelve and wants to look at it it should be a million sixty plus our cost of carrying it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I can tell you Henry that will be a deal breaker there is no question. You added seven hundred and fifty two thousand dollars to that contract you take the one point seven million that we're going to have invested, two point seven million if we go to two million. . . . . . CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That's seven hundred thousand if you never buy it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Then add another seven hundred and fifty thousand to it we got a plant built by that time we can grow ourselves. COUNCILMAN IRISH-That's exactly right. You are telling us to look at down the road you are going to buy more water now you are assuming that you are not going to buy that million. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Seven hundred thousand is only if you never buy it. The figure we put in there you can drop in a year at any time you say gee, we're not just building the water. Five years down the road we're not going to need that stop paying on it. If you can stop paying you can forget it you can walk away that's sounds like a bargain to me. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-He even sounds like an attorney now. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-In the proposal that you gave us it was sort of right first refusal you put it in real estate terms basically. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-The attorney put that in there. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-But, I think basically you are treating this as a real estate deal. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It's a contract it was something I think in good faith everybody had agreed on that. We're investing money we're making a commitment I thought everybody had agreed on that portion of it. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-You know whoever signs the first contract to buy water from the Town of Queensbury its going to set the stage for negotiations with whoever comes down the road. Hudson Falls has been ready to jump, but they are just setting there now waiting to see what we are going to do with you people. We've got to be awful careful cause this is big business Harry. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I understand and I appreciate your concern. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Really big business and we have to take care of the taxpayers here at home. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Pliney I'm not sure that's completely the way it will work in the future. I had conversation with the Troy Mayor and representatives from Troy as Dick indicated they've got all kinds of deals down there. It's one deal to neighbor A, it's another deal to neighbor B. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Yeah, but they are making profit on every one of them and we're selling at cost are we not? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-We're selling at cost at a no guarantee buy-in. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That's why I turned to find out what other municipalities what other agreements has something like this been included in other agreements. MR. DINOLFO- They may have. I think there is enough authorities in the law that would allow a municipality selling water to make a profit. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-But, there is enough authority in law for them to even reach beyond their own boundary lines to sell water right. Theoretically they could bring the pipe to our side of the river. MR. DINOLFO- That one I'm not sure of. COUNCILMAN IRISH-But Dick is saying there is an authority to make a profit on. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-So we could add ten percent profit on it but we haven't done that we don't intend too. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I still go with the premises whatever we do right now when you start negotiating with somebody else they are going to want basically the same thing. So on down the road you are going to be selling water at your cost and that's kind of nuts. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Maybe we should talk ten percent profit. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Ifyou can benefit to the tune I think it was fifth year Ralph maybe you remember the numbers it got up to six hundred thousand gallons a day you know save a hundred and fifteen gallons a year. If you believe in the regional concept and you make the capital investment you've got to try and make it work. Hopefully you are going to sell water to somebody and the more you sell it to the sooner it happens and the sooner. . . . COUNCILMAN IRISH-I know I'm not ready to put that on the backs of the people in the water district. You are expecting the people in the water district to pick up the slack for what Moreau not paying. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Where? COUNCILMAN IRISH-We're going to subsidize whatever deal we make with Moreau. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Where? COUNCILMAN IRISH-Through the tax bill that I get every six months. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Where in the contract are you subsidizing us for anything? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I'll tell you where. If the water district were to increase its capacity by three hundred thousand gallons its water bill would drop a hell of a lot lower than it will if we sell you three hundred thousand gallons because we have cost to incur to get it you. You are asking us to. . . with those cost that we wouldn't absorb in the water district that's the difference. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-But look at the costs you've got now on nine and a half million gallons surplus capacity. COUNCILMAN IRISH-That's not bothering anybody Harry that's not bothering anybody but you. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That's the strongest negotiating point you have. COUNCILMAN IRISH-It's going to bother them more if we sell it to you for less than their paying. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We have got to show somewhere on this paper again going back to the benefit of that user as we reduce the cost from eighty four to seventy four, to sixty four, to thirty four, that's to show that's going to say to them look your costs have been reduced. Without selling water to Moreau your bill is not going to stay where it is it could actually increase over time. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-A contract for three hundred thousand that's what we're guaranteeing I see sixty two thousand savings annually that's what I see. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We're guaranteed more than three hundred they are buying in for a million. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I see sixty two thousand a year which we can apply towards the hundred and seventy which would get applied to debt service and so forth. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Let me ask you a question. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Let him finish he is on a.... COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We went through this five minutes ago I want to ask you a question. The minute they buy in at three hundred thousand they buy the water for seventy eight cents a gallon? UNKNOWN-That's correct. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Right away? MR. DINOLFO-Correct. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Tell me when I get it for seventy eight cents not until all the money in the investment is paid back do I as a member of the Queensbury Water District get my water for seventy eight cents. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's not true. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-It is true. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It is absolutely true. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What investment are we talking about now? COUNCILMAN TUCKER-The money we're going to invest the water to the river. COUNCILMAN IRISH-... ..here telling us we're going to receive from the 0 & M if we invest that back in the infrastructure that we're going to put in for the Town of Moreau. ... COUNCILMAN MERRILL-There is a hundred and seventy. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-It is a hundred and seventy for the first phase then there is a couple hundred thousand... .. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Ifwe stay at three hundred thousand gallons a day. COUNCILMAN IRISH-We know right away its not going to be the same rate that you are paying. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Its going to be more. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-We have to stay at eighty four to pay off that.. .. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-When I first started this I talked to I think before he became Supervisor Ralph Van Dusen and I've got my notes it was September of 1996, I think we were seventy three cents a thousand gallons now you are at eighty four I don't know where the eighty four came up all of a sudden. RALPH VANDUSEN, WATER SUPERINTENDENT -You neglected I'm going to pitch your move you add the nickel or take the nickel out that's something you've done from the very beginning the transmission cost. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I can tell you where my thing change or my boards did on the transmission it was the February 18th, meeting we hadn't agreed to come across the river at that point. At that point the nickel was going to be waived and we agreed to come to the river bank that was the three hundred and ten thousand dollars. At that meeting it was talked about..... COUNCILMAN IRISH-You didn't accept that proposal either. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Fred said at that point can we do that without the transmission charge and you thought you drop it last Monday night. Based on that, that's when we deceided yes instead of insisting to come to the middle of the river we would come to the other side of the river and also remember we talked about sharing the maintenance on the pipe and everything. When you people dropped the nickel we said yes we will maintain and put the half of the river crossing in that was at faith and now its coming back in. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-But it was in the surcharge and then the concern was raised if you went to high volume the surcharge could exceed and we agreed to cap it. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Right. Larry was concerned that there was two hundred and some odd thousand dollars you guys could be out we put a cap in there. I mean you know you can only bend so far before you break. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think Pliney you hit a key point here. Conceivably we would be operating at eight four cents plus other charges. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Not until you pay that money back. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Right. Moreau is paying seventy eight now can we adjust the cost of Moreau up to the eighty four to help pay back our infrastructure. COUNCILMAN IRISH-No, because they want the seventy eight. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I don't have to reflect that. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry here god bless him all he talks about is what we've offered. Everything we've offered they walked away from have they not is it just me? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We did a draft where we thought we were giving you exactly what you wanted our last draft that we sent. We cleaned up the contract, we cleaned up the river crossing, we thought that we had in there everything you asked for. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Harry going back to the original intent of this contract which is confusing very complicated as the devil. What you came back with was a totally new interest percentage on the money you were to pay Queensbury over the course of time that's really... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What we put in the.. ...we thought that's where you were going to end up with your finance and that's what we put in. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-You are willing to pay for a....river crossing. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That's what we put in because..... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Now we're able to make it better than that at three five five. I think the concern, I guess that I have had since this came back to my desk is we kind of translated all of the qualities, values to Moreau that was in there originally that we talked about to now an interest payment charge back to you that one doesn't relate to the other and that's what we're trying to do is put all the pieces together. If we took a twenty year, help me with this Ralph and Henry. If we took a twenty year pay back scheduled according to the way it had been calculated back in some of the original contract language apply that to your current three point five five plus for an, a quarter for the river crossing I'm not smart enough really come up with those two number? I don't know if you are ahead we're ahead, whether it's an even steven here what I'm saying. I've got to look at this new contract that you came back with as a totally new picture. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What was in there that you said..... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-One eighty. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We thought we were giving you exactly what you want. COUNCILMAN IRISH-No you took advantage of the interest rate for both the river crossing and the buy in. We were willing to give you the three five five on the buy in, but you were going to pay our interest rate that we are receiving on our investments for the river crossing. Now this new proposal that just came out gives them three five five across the board right? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Not ours. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-The one they offered did didn't it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Which we thought was a loss because you basically just don't pay off your debt service fee we just assume that. We didn't feel like that was costing you money. COUNCILMAN IRISH-When we originally went out and it cost us money to get that. I don't believe that Moreau can go any where in the world and get a three five five percentage rate any where. (TAPE TURNED) SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's a loan Harry right that's not a grant? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That's a loan. MR. DINOLFO- Y ou just mention something that I'm not aware of all the specifics about that one offer was different because of the investment in the EFC loan do you have a number on what that would be different by? It's seem to me from the conversation you were pretty close other than in this interest rate. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Our proposal we were a hundred sixty five thousand dollars about..... MR. DINOLFO-How many dollars are you talking about if you were that close. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-The dollar amount wasn't the issue you are dealing with concepts here it was the concept. MR. DINOLFO-Ifyou could quantify that and that's a part of your difference maybe you ought to look at what that dollar amount is you are talking about. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-The other way around this is to consider eighty percent financing on the buy in verses fifty. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That clear it up. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-But it doesn't clarify the contract it clarifies that issue. That issue is not independent of the other one because they tie in the interest rate to it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-River Crossing, page 12. I think what we had sent to you was a four and a quarter and the difference between the four and a quarter and the five and a quarter that you proposed over the twenty years is twenty seven thousand three hundred twenty two and eighty cents. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Henry.....God bless us if they bought in and give us some money and we put it in the bank what would we draw on it? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS- Today's interest rate is five eighty seven something like that. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Five eighty seven. If we give it to them we finance for four and a quarter we are losing money aren't we? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-If we were dealing with a cash buyer we would come out ahead there is no doubt about it. Queensbury has an investment. . ... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We understand that. We're saying there is a way around that don't involve the river crossing keep your money invested at five eight five just let us assume more of your EFC data..... COUNCILMAN MERRILL-And pay the carrying cost. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It depends what issue you are talking about are you talking about future buy in or future..... BOARD-Debt. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That's why you know we've talked about sixteen things here that's why I'd like to keep one thing. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-The bottom line is we've got to know what our cost per thousand gallons of water is going to be. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-So do we. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-When I look at what this was and you add the seven hundred and fifty two thousand dollars that breaks the camels back. We would be better off going our own and selling water to somebody else. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-With the values you have we haven't talked about that's one of the things that we don't expect anybody to pay for, but its a value. Our plant is not on the drawing board it's on a piece of ground over there it's not two years away it's here now. We're not asking for any kind of value but those are two real economic values if you study economics at all they have a real value you like to weigh those. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Our engineers tell us it's six points difference..... COUNCILMAN IRISH-How many times did the engineers tell you your plant was almost done Fred. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We set back and you would like to sell water to the City of Glens Falls for ninety five cents a thousand gallons..... COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That's only emergency. COUNCILMAN IRISH-They would not get that if they signed on a contract to buy water long terrn. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That was mutual. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Speaking for me Harry if we come to a deal with you as long as I'm around here which may only be another sixteen months who the hell knows. . . .. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-You might be here another twenty years. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I can guarantee you that I'm not going to give anybody a better deal. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I know you want to be fair I think we just have to decide where is it. COUNCILMAN IRISH-One of the things that we discussed Harry was to get an outside CPA to come in and determine what Queensbury's true costs for water are. If that would satisfy your board I think we talked about that. Apparently you are not comfortable with the figures that Ralph and Henry are coming up with as far as true costs. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-The future buy in. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It's not a matter of cost we can talk cost. COUNCILMAN IRISH-So don't buy the future buy in that's it. Just go the three hundred thousand if you need it come back and we'll negotiate it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're not going to invest one point seven million dollars and put in a sixteen inch pipe unless we. . . . COUNCILMAN IRISH-Then don't do that put in what you need. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL- This is something new. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-The reason is because you realize five years down the road, ten years down the road when you need that we're going to have that available but it's going to be worth a lot more that's really the realization that's fogging that. We can guarantee you that it only will be worth three point five five more. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-The other thing too Henry, is if we come out and we use two million gallons of water day would help make it worth even more to you. .. You can look at it is the cup half full or half empty. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-It seems to me we can go on with this conversation forever, but somewhere along the way this board is going to have to take a hard look at the seven hundred and fifty if it is reasonable is something less than that reasonable I think that's where I sit here today. Going back to a deal is a deal, is a deal, if we want to do a deal maybe that's where we've got to look at it. It seems to me just as with the City Harry there are some additional costs to reserve water. Now were those costs part of some original contract language sure they were we looked at that you know that fifty fifty gallon plus the surcharges that were in there, there were some dollars there. One of the issues here is that we have been very up front with you we have been very straight it's been on the table and these are our costs. I think we're at a point right now that if we want to move forward Queensbury has to take a look at how they want to resolve that one if there is any resolve to it. It seems to me you are absolutely right that's the camels back right there it's got to be. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That's a big one. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry for your information Hudson Falls has been notified they have until October 15th to sign an agreement with us or they are going to start paying the cost. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Their cost its already been factored at three five five. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I think any proposal that goes to Moreau should have a deadline in it. We're spinning our wheels and wasting a lot of time here trying to get something done you know Fred's been working on it for two years. In my opinion is you are not really committed to buying water from Queensbury or your whole board would be here today. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We got two board members that are at their place of employment. COUNCILMAN IRISH-PIiney and I both work I mean I made arrangements to be here today. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I've got a guy with a backhoe digging a hole for a cellar and I hope he gets it in the right place. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I think any offer that we make to Moreau from here should have a deadline in it if they don't meet the deadline let them come to us with something later I don't think we need to keep beating ourselves to a pulp. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think on the river crossing financing and the buy in financing since that's a wash I think that we can probably figure something else. The nickel transmission charge I see that as a real charge Harry we talked at length about that. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-It's less than we are paying don't tell our taxpayers that. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-There is a gifting in there. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Originally we talk to the nickel and a.. . million gallons two and a half cents. Otherwise we could end up paying for that pipe two, three, times. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That nickel is still going to be a nickel even at a million. COUNCILMAN IRISH-If that's pipe is in there a hundred years if we're pumping water through that pipe it's still a transmission charge. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's maintenance really. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-We are absorbing some of that but I see it's in the volume here we could probably justify it so the real hang up is this future. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's where I see it. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think the others, but the nickel as far as I'm concerned that's real. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I like to just remind you what our counsel wrote to you people. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Again, Harry you keep coming back and I was the one that said I'd forgive that but it was because it was in that second level surcharge we talked at length about that we would be making it up in there. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-And that was for the river crossing. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-There were factors in there from the negotiations point of view it was the river crossing. From a cost point of view when we did the calculations on it it included whatever cost Queensbury had to get back to sell water at cost I can assure you that. You had the end result you didn't have all my spread sheets it covered our cost. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That's where that nickel went. When we did away with the second level of surcharge we had to bring the nickel back. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That was the thing that got us to say yes we....the river crossing. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Do we want to go back to the surcharge concept that got thrown out. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I know we had one proposal for some reason I think it was last February a hundred and sixty five thousand dollar a part. . .. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Henry prepared to summarize this and it says, second level surcharge provided to recover full cost that's what I'm looking at. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-You can see all the numbers you saw the end result it covered all our costs. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-So if we want to go back to a surcharge what's the tradeoff on the nickel? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-In fact, if you were to take the original surcharge off and run that out you are going to find you would spend as much under that formula as you are actually going to spend now. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-There was one proposal where we were going to share the.... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I think we've got to deal with just what's on the table and the two board's got to agree to move forward with what's there. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-But that nickel is there it's real. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-It's a new concept. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Or we go to the surcharge but you've thrown that out. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It's a negotiating problem. What it is Harry it's negotiating from something that was totally unacceptable six months ago we can't negotiate that way. If it was totally unacceptable then we can't use it now. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-You are the one that has made these changes when we come back with these things. A copy of our letter that went to Bob Hafner from our Attorney was earlier this year the Queensbury Town Board changed direction on the river crossing, now there is the issue of transmission charges. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry weren't we told by our legal people that Queensbury couldn't pay for that river crossing weren't we told that? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Let's ask the Controller's Office. UNKNOWN-Is that what you thought your Attorney told you. I think that there is some basis to that you couldn't extend that line across the river. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Let's make sure we understand here. If those numbers that were in that original proposal from Queensbury those numbers in there over a course of twenty years showed a direct pay back to the cost of that river crossing. MR. DINOLFO- To be honest with you I'm not an Attorney I don't understand the full ramifications of that. I know under Section 198-3 it talks about providing water to inhabitant. . . .. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Let me ask you a questions sir, I know you are not an Attorney you probably can answer it. To do something the direct benefit has to be there in order to do it has it not? It can't be high in the sky twenty years down the road or something like that it's got to be at the instance you decide to do it when you are dealing with special districts. MR. DINOLFO-Pliney, I think I could justify an argument that there could be some future benefit that it would be applicable. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-It would. MR. DINOFLO-I think I could do that. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I remember Pliney in a meeting when you were at our place and you said if we could get that in writing from the Controller's Office, I think you said you'd agree to it remember that we talked about that? COUNCILMAN TUCKER-All I wanted was the Controller's opinion on it that's what I wanted. MR. DINOLFO- Y ou would have to ask our legal staff. You are talking about investing in something that you may not realize the benefit for a couple of years, but there is a potential there to do it. If there was no potential there to do it then you are in trouble. But if there is a potential to do it I think there is probably justification. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That's where I have a problem because we don't know if there is a potential. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-It's all pie in the sky stuff. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-There are no buy-ins in the contract there is no way to measure a potential. If there were guarantees in it I could look at this entirely different. MR. DINOLFO- Y ou already done that you already built the plant that can produce fifteen millions why did you do that if you didn't feel you could pay for something that didn't have a future benefit? COUNCILMAN IRISH-We can pay for it with just growth in Queensbury over twenty years I'm sure. MR. VANDUSEN, WATER SUPERINTENDENT-The engineers estimate of the cost was to build a eleven million gallon a day plant or a fifteen and there was four hundred thousand dollars difference in cost. MR. DINOLFO-So for four hundred thousand dollars you did that you paid four hundred thousand dollars for some type of future benefit. That's what I'm saying I think that's a reasonable way to approach this type of business. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We had a three and a half million gallon or three and three quarter million gallon plant and some days we pumped as much as eight and a half million gallons of water out of that plant. Even before we started to build the plant there were days in the Town of Queensbury that demanded a hell of a lot more water than what we were producing. This thing has been built twenty years into the future we were looking at right. There is nothing to say that twenty years down the road that Queensbury might need twenty million gallons themselves. MR DINOLFO-I agree with you but just the fact that you are looking twenty years down the road when you built that plant means you are looking at a future benefit I'm only trying to answer your question Pliney. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I accepted your answer on that. You told me that we could talk about cost sharing in it if it showed a benefit I didn't want to hear that but that's what you told me. What I'm saying is that and Fred will tell you I was on the board previous to when Fred came into office and we voted to build a ten million gallon right Fred? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ten or eleven. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Ten or eleven something like that and that was the needs that were projected strictly for the Town of Queensbury. I followed Fred's handling of this and went to the meeting's didn't I Fred and everything. I thought when they built this thing that the taxpayers were going to go right through the roof not a word, not a word. We're going to cut their taxes this fall aren't we Ralph? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think it was remarkable planning. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I know when this all started with Harry and Moreau, Fred really figured he had to sell some water right Fred? SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- That's my reason for signing.... COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Things have changed a little bit. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-You are not going to use fifty million for Queensbury for the next fifty years no matter what's expanding. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That's a sound philosophy. I don't imagine anybody ever thought about it in terms of we're going to build that plant so we can put Moreau in the water business cheaper than we got into it. I don't think that was ever thought but that's what's happening. I'm not arguing against that let me make something clear again, I've said this at other meetings but it's important to say again. My position here is and I'm the financial advisor of the board if they want to give the water away at five cents less in cost or ten cents less in cost or whatever that's their prerogative. If they end up voting okay we're giving it away for twenty five cents less because in year sixteen we think we can break even that's a deal done made and I will live with that. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- The only difference between that philosophy I guess and the Champagne philosophy is that I just account for that savings on that user as being a benefit. I admire you Henry for coming in with what your coming in with. The questions are is it dollars and cents or is it savings that's going to occur out there and I guess I hear the Controller's Office say, yes that is part of the formula and can be applied to breaking even that's my point the only difference between Henry and Fred. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-My point all along is when do we see that savings. If it's seven years down the road that's to far, if it's ten years that's to far, if it's a year, okay. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I can live with that, but there are no numbers. We're not guaranteed ten gallons a day. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Our school is adding on and we've got a certain number of building permits and vacant lots, we've got an industrial park that were paying debt service on eight hundred thousand dollars with twenty empty lots. COUNCILMAN IRISH-But, you can't guarantee what you are going to buy we can guarantee what we're going to give you. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I don't think anybody can guarantee what they are going to buy. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I'Il guarantee you the minute they turn the valve we can give you three hundred thousand gallons. COUNCILMAN GUTHEIL-I don't think anybody can guarantee what you are going to buy. You can't guarantee what you are going to use nobody can. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-If! can calculate a break even point my whole construction of the process would be different philosophically it wouldn't change. I cannot project a break even point there is not enough data in that contract to give me a break even point that's the problem. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-You have to do with three hundred thousand that's what the contract is written about. COUNCILMAN TURNER-That's the only information you've got three hundred thousand? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL- That's all we can guarantee. It's no different than you guarantee what your needs are going to be. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Then everything we do has to be based on three hundred thousand it can't be based on what they are going to do twenty years down the road. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I don't think it's unreasonable to think we're going to grow. We wouldn't be trying to buy two million gallons of water if we're only going to need three hundred thousand gallons. COUNCILMAN TURNER-Harry you just made a statement saying you can't guarantee how much water you are going to use how can you guarantee. . . . . . SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We can't guarantee we're going to use the three hundred when we agreed to guarantee that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-If you, back to Queensbury, before water I'm going to tell you something you didn't have this kind of usage back then when we first built that three and a half million that you've got today. When you put water in a town or things will happen. As I forecast Moreau down there knowing the development that's going on right now that's where the water consumption is going to be. I really don't see that kind of growth in Queensbury maybe that you see in terms of using up more than a eleven million gallons over the next twenty years it's not going to happen. You are going to be into rock up there our usable space right now today is diminishing that is our land use for residential and for business let's face it. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-They are still building. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-The kind of growth we're building a hundred plus houses a year compared to three hundred and plus back in the late eighties that's when our growth was there. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Watch Ward One, Ward Two. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS- I can imagine a bunch of people sitting around the table like this some years ago talking about how much trash they could burn nobody offered a guarantee but we'll pick up the cost if you don't. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Fred you mentioned the faith in the growth of Moreau if we show some faith they should show some. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We are by buying a million gallons and spending six hundred and some thousand dollars on the river crossing. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Buying into a plant but they are guaranteeing use of it. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry you are buying a million you want a guarantee on a million. The plant expandable still could be added on suppose you buy the million and fifteen years down the road you need another million we put an addition on the plant and you pay for that whatever it is that cost at that moment. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL- That's basically what we're fixing the cost up front. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-You can't do that. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-But you still got it there. If you don't have it there we turn down the option to buy it. You add the option in but if it was that trigger mechanism that you needed or had another buyer we would have so many months to say yes and I think everybody thought that was reasonable. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Do you have any thoughts on that one.... TAPE TURNED (TAPE 3) MR. DINOLFO-IfMoreau hasn't expanded the way they anticipate then the option that Harry has talked about.. . . . COUNCILMAN IRISH-The difference is they can walk away from that million any time they want. But, if we're holding that in reserve for them we're still paying for that they may walk away and never use it but we incurred that cost of putting it on the shelve. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I exercise the option ten years down the road that option is really worth more because they have not paid the carrying cost we pay the carrying cost. Maybe when they exercise the option they pay the carrying cost CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That was my original suggestion. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-What you are saying now is you pay it as we go. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-They can do that or they can pay it when they pick it up. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That puts us right out of the market that puts us into building our own plant. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Ten years from now Harry you want to exercise the option. At that point in time you pay the proportional amount just as you did now plus the carrying cost that we've incurred between now and then. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-If you never exercise it you never pay it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-The problem is we buying into a ten year old plant they tell us the life expectancy. . . . . COUNCILMAN IRISH-This is not a throwaway... .what you want to build is a throwaway plant. This plant is going to be here until I drop dead. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-But the contract says we would be incurring all, obviously you are looking for reconstruction costs and stuff that's why that's in the contract. So if somebody buys in at year ten or fifteen obviously they are looking at more reconstruction costs than they were if they were bought in last year or next year. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I think that has to be all taken into consideration. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It's called depreciation. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-A plant that is brand new it's kind of what you say it may cost you more but the dollar is going to be more. The dollar is going to be escalated there has got to be some depreciation there. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We've had a water plant up there for twenty years. COUNCILMAN IRISH-He doesn't want to pay there. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-What measure..... WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-Two filters, six hundred thousand dollars. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That was here in twenty years. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That's what I'm saying that's a factor that somebody else would be paying for. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Paying for? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-One, one fifteenth or two one fifteenth whatever it came out. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That would be part of the negotiations when you desire to pick up the option. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Wait a minute Pliney. As far as any reconstruction that's all ready in the contract they are going to pick up their share of any reconstruction. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-On what they buy in. If ten years down the road he buys in for the next million that's when that reconstruction would be figured into it wouldn't it Henry? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It would start from today. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Is that in here? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It's already in on the first million. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Have you guys looked at this and talked about this? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Ifthat hasn't been changed. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I don't think there has been any debate about that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's from get-go. COUNCILMAN IRISH-But, you guys aren't willing to sign this? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-On what you just presented? COUNCILMAN IRISH-Yes. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Our board hasn't seen it. COUNCILMAN IRISH-My whole point is we're sitting here negotiating again and your guys haven't seen this. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I got it yesterday. When did it come out? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-August 13th. COUNCILMAN IRISH-We're sitting here talking about changes and they haven't even read it. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-In fairness it is not going to go anywhere if Harry doesn't endorse it I don't think. COUNCILMAN IRISH-He's got an obligation to present it to his board. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-He's not going to endorse it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We put in their mailboxes everybody has been notified. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I think the fair thing to do is let you guys sit down as a board talk about this if you don't want to accept it that's fine. For us to sit down with just you and talk about this proposal and start negotiating something that your board hasn't had any input on is kind of foolish. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Let me explain what happened. Ted and I were on the committee Henry and Ralph we put this together. We're the Water Committee here and we didn't want it to go anywhere until everybody seen it on our board that's the reason that you just got it.... CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-They saw it Monday night. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Yeah. We couldn't speak for the entire board until the board looked at it that is the reason. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I understand that. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-What went on here this morning gives you a little feel where we're coming from so when you start talking to your board you have an idea. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Okay. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Where I'm coming from is I endorse everything that's in here I just see options that we might consider moving one thing to another as long as it is still a break even the financing. COUNCILMAN TURNER-Absolutely, absolutely. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-If we want to put the nickel into the operating formula, okay that's where we put it or if we put a surcharge on, but it still has to be covered. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Although this was given to me whatever day it was after you folks met I did have an opportunity to review it rather quick like. I did see the cost of carrying charges against the million gallons. I would still like to think that it is still open for discussion. . . . . ... CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-That can be avoided entirely by just what we said. Don't charge those annual fee, but accumulate what the value of the buy-in and access it at the time of the buy-in is affected and that way it could be avoided all together because it's never needed. I believe that it would be less than the going price of a million gallons of composition in any other source at that time. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I certainly would endorse that as an option. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Let me ask a question. Harry in the original contract we've got thirteen years... .. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Until two thousand fifteen. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-What I'm talking about is the option for them to buy the additional million gallons. That could still stay right in there even though they don't pick up the option right? I mean if they don't take the option right from the get -go here that could stay right in there and be part of the agreement couldn't it? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Sure after thirteen million you have to do that. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Are you saying if he doesn't pick up the option right now to leave that language in the contract that we would have to go to them to sell it to somebody else, no because you are still holding a million gallons capacity. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-There is not a problem doing that if it's doing it at what price. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE-I thought that is what you were saying. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We're not holding it for nothing because if they don't pick up the option the cost that we accumulate goes onto the charge to the million gallons. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Again, they haven't seen this I don't know why we're sitting here throwing options out until they've seen this and come back to our board. Don't sit here saying what they we're going to accept if they don't accept this let them come back with a proposal. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I'm not saying accepting it I'm just trying to run this through my mind. In a month we sit down here again and we'll be starting from scratch again because nobody is going to remember anything that took place. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Okay have we talked this thing out enough. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-There isjust one issue I'd like to address Harry called me yesterday. It's on page 7, on the capacity that we're guaranteeing. My recollection on it Harry it was changed here to say a million gallons a day because that what's the capacity you are currently buying. I think to clarify it we could also add a sentence to say that when you buy additional capacity we could guarantee up to a million and a half at that connection point the engineers have said we can do a million and a half at that point. There was some discussion to change it to two we've gone back and said a million because that's what you are buying. But clearly the intent and all the discussion is then that if and when you ever purchase up to a million and a half capacity we can to a million and a half at that point at that discussion. It's limited to one million because that's what you are purchasing but clearly we can do to one and a half and I'm sure we would not have a problem adding a sentence in there. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-The million and a half does that include putting the pipe on Big Bay Road or Big Boom Road? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-We can do it the way it is right now with Big Boom Road. Million and a half we would do the other half of that and at that point they would of had to purchase additional water, additional capacity they would be using more water. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-If they purchase an additional million of water don't they want the guarantees we can deliver the million. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-Based on the current studies and we're reviewing that with the second hydraulic study. We cannot supply more than a million and a half at that connection point. If they need two million total gallons at that point we would need a second river crossing or a second pipe somewhere. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-How would the cost of that be handled? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-We're saying in this contract we can do it across, I think this needs to be modified, but we would say we could supply up to one and a half million. As soon as you need more than one and a half million there is nothing in this contract that addresses getting it to Moreau. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-If the pipe going across the river will handle it we got to bring a second pipe from Big Bay to river crossing. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-Two options. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I understand that part and I hope it happens that they need the two million. Would that be a negotiating point at that time they want the additional five hundred thousand? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN -There is currently nothing in this contract that would precipitate us running that second pipe line. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-There should be some language there to state if they want to go over the one point five million that there would additional cost for somebody. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-You could do that now or at the time of purchase. COUNCILMAN TURNER-Do it at the time of purchase. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It could be a mute point. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-At the time of purchase whoever is sitting at this table can open the contract and say, here's the way it works. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-For beginners you would come down Big Boom Road how much of water would that give you at that point? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-I know that we can do a million gallons a day with just Big Bay. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What does that cost you to get to there? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN- That's the hundred and seventy thousand dollars. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-And that gets you a million? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-Yeah. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I remember a meeting Tony Geiss said that we could do like a million and.. ..that's why I called you. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-We can do a million five once we connect Big Bay and Big Boom together. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Then we would have to lift beyond that I think Tony said at one of the meetings. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN -You may get into booster pumping maybe the second lines. It is going to involve a hydraulic study of your system and ours once you get above that point. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-So we say a million five as we get to two million. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-To get to a million six you are going to have to do a hydraulic evaluation of our system and whatever your system needs to be at that point. Today you can't do that you may know what our system is but at this point in fairness to Harry he really doesn't really know the extent so I don't see how you can address it. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-But to get that settlement don't you in fact have to have an identified source of water? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It involves litigation I can't tell you that. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-But our intent is to be there if you need us to help get that settlement. What I would ask is that settlement is to provide infrastructure and to provide a source of water. What I would ask is to take a hard look at the cost of the water that is going to be provided from Queensbury verses what you can provide yourself. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We have people that like to have the control and what to know that we know where we're going to be. To say that we might be able to be in the water business and still accomplish the same thing when we do like you people did or your predecessor and say. . . . . . COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think what we have here is almost a guarantee price for cost of water. We're providing you with a guarantee for the cost of water. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-You are saying it would be the same as reproduction costs but none of us know what that is going to be. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-We know pretty close based on experience. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Ifyou sell to Hudson Falls and Glens Falls that will be more attractive. If you don't and we build a plant or Glens Falls builds a plant or our sources tied up it is going to split the economy of scale. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Our cost are going to stay the same. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Yours will, but we have the benefit of maybe being part ofa thirty five or fifty million a day plant. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Well that's kind of all down the road stuff. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That's why I believe in the regional concept. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I think we all do Harry there is no question about that. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It was somebody else's thought when the commitment was made to go fifteen MGD. I honestly feel that if we don't get together..... COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Don't lose site we can demonstrate what the cost will be verses projected. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Based on assumptions that you reach your full capacity..... CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-We've never done a projection that says we're going to sell fifteen million gallons to anybody. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That you are producing fifteen MGD. I think I have a copy ofa draft that came from...... CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It may be way back I haven't seen that. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-The big problem here is that we're getting a lot of stuff thrown at us that we have nothing to do with that we didn't put together. What I'm talking about is he's talking about somebody give him something. . . . . . COUNCILMAN IRISH-I know. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-We're negotiating we have to negotiate now in this time frame. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Harry and his board should be looking at proposal and let us know what their opinion is of that then we can decide what to do from there. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I can only tell you what it was based on the last thing that was brought to us. I can tell you that the board was inferior to this. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry if they are inferiorated with this one I guess you'll have to build your water plant. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-No. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Yeah. We've screwed around with this thing long enough come on. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think you understand where we're coming from. COUNCILMAN IRISH-If you guys can't accept this I really think that you need to build a plant. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What we found is you also thrown in raising it another seven hundred and fifty two thousand dollars. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE-I think it's all been said here at the table. I think your job now Harry is to go back with your board I would still ask at least I would like to think that we can sit down again with your full board and with our full board and go from there. I have some problems with it you are speaking with it you are speaking for yourself. When you are done that doesn't mean that I'm done that he's done, that he's done, so speak for yourself when you make these statements. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-What I'm saying Fred is that I'm not going to sit here at this table negotiating these things forever. Here we are seven months into our administration we've dealt with these people we walked away thinking we've got a deal and it's fell apart what can we say? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I went to Hudson Falls the first or second month I took office five years ago. I went to Hudson Falls we started talking negotiations for water and we're still not a deal there. I don't think any of this stuff can be done overnight. If it takes another three or four months is there something wrong with that when you are trying to put together a intermunicipal agreement? COUNCILMAN IRISH-Hudson Falls has come back and tried to buy water at below cost. I think Moreau has consistently come back and tried to buy water at below cost that's the problem with Moreau. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I don't think that's a fair statement. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I think its absolutely fair. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're not asking you to sell us water at below cost. COUNCILMAN IRISH-How many proposals did you come back with that didn't meet our costs everyone of them. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-The problem here is I mean to put it up in the lights the problem here is that we're being ask to serve as a bank for some of their cost it puts a whole different light on it. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I don't think anybody has a problem with serving as the bank as long as we're going to recover our cost. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-If they go out into the financial world and borrow money they are going to have to pay whatever it cost to borrow that money what's wrong with that. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We can do that we can bond. COUNCILMAN IRISH-You've said that for a year Harry you haven't done it yet. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We've got to agree to the other terms of the contract. COUNCILMAN IRISH-You come in here with cash and that will probably be a lot easier. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-You come in and buy-in and do what you got to do. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-You make it look like we're changing all the terms. Let me tell you quickly these last two proposals you people have brought to us you were the ones that made the changes not us. COUNCILMAN IRISH-It's because you didn't accept the proposal in front of you. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Which way are we going? Each one you bring to us you are asking for more. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-What happen to the one in February? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-When you came back it was the other way it's only a fair swap. I'd like to say one more thing and then stop. I see two issues one is the transmission and the other is the cost of future buy-in they are the two major issues are they not? SUPPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I would say so. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I think that the transmission is really probably not a bendable kind of thing somewhere I think that needs to be what I hear the board saying is that needs to be in there. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We had been negotiating with you people to do that. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It's my summary you can make yours in a minute. My summary says we're going to deal with the nickel. The half of it is what happens with the shelve cost of the buy-in. If we get past the nickel and I think we're negotiating wrong we shouldn't be negotiating with that three point five five is on the future buy-in because the stumbling block is the nickel. If we get past that and Moreau really wants to buy water at that time I think there are ways to defer the cost of the shelve line I think that's a resolvable point. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That is a new issue that Queensbury put in this last proposal. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-If you were selling us water wouldn't you see this as a cost? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I don't want to construe that Moreau is making all these changes. This is a change that you people after well over a year have brought to the table. COUNCILMAN IRISH-This is a new proposal Harry you didn't accept the last proposal do you want us to put the same proposal in front of you again and again and again? SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I thought we negotiate closer instead you added... ... COUNCILMAN IRISH-We're trying to negotiate our true cost to sell you water. Now if you don't believe what our true costs are based... ... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-The true cost are changing with each time..... COUNCILMAN IRISH-The numbers are always the same. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-This is something new that has been added in correct me if I'm wrong. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-At no time in my two years working with this have a seen a shelve interest rate. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-At no time did we talk about three fifty five. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We could have been talking about three point zero. All the time we talked about that everybody would benefit from any re-finance so we could of been talking about a three fifty five or a four point two five or two point five nine, I don't buy that. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I still contend we're debating a point that is not the stumbling block of this contract. The stumbling block of this contract is the transmission of the real cost. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I don't want it said that hasn't been discussed it was in black and white. It's in black and white it's in the contract that we would benefit from and re-finance. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-There is no contract. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-All the draft contracts. Does everybody hear me so Henry understands what I'm saying. That's exactly what it was and that's what it has been so it's not like it's been hid that was something nobody every objected too. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I don't think we argued that. I don't think you recognized or come to appreciate the savings that Moreau will get through that lower interest rate. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I do we we're all headed for that. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That's why I'm encouraging to look at the bottom line cost. The figures today of this proposal I think you'll find are more attractive than what we had three months or six months ago. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-They automatically should be because of the refinancing. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Yes, but you are not looking at that. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We certainly are. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-You've got to look at the bottom line and that's what's being lost here. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're going to look at the bottom line. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-We're off on emotions the emotions of a nickel. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're off on more than that. You just added in thirty something thousand dollars a year in payments to the Town of Moreau. COUNCILMAN IRISH-You don't have to buy it. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Or deferring them as Henry says. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-The way to do it is to come to us and ask us if we have a million gallons available after you need it five, ten, fifteen years. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Up until yesterday when I received this I believe it was, there has been no mention or any concerns about saving that million gallons for Moreau with a thirteen million gallon trigger mechanisrn. When it's all said and done somebody else is bringing these new things to the table it's not Moreau. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Let us take a look at that. Dick are you open to take another look at that? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I think we should look at it after we get the nickel. There is no sense in looking at it until you get the nickel that's my point. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I'm a stupid... .. ..engineer I take things one at a time the nickel is the first thing to take. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Because that's the killer this isn't the killer. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-What does that nickel equate to fifty five hundred dollars a year that's going to be a deal breaker Harry when you. . . . . . .. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That was over twenty years Dick that we accepted that was a hundred and ten thousand dollars over twenty years that we were going to help pay for the other half of the river crossing. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-But, I keep coming back you keep forgetting about the surcharge. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Harry just let me say this and this will be my last time that I need to say it, I guess. What we have in the contract that you sent back to us with the interest rates verses the original plan that we had selling you per thousand gallons of water it's a whole new ball game for this board, it's a whole new ball game for me I'm looking at different numbers. As I said earlier when I sat down with Ralph the first go around we put the numbers together here what the twenty year pay back would be verses what a twenty year pay back would be over on this side you do that sometime you take a look at that. I'm going to tell you this contract with the seven hundred fifty thousand dollars I'm more than interested and willing to take a whole hard look at that one too somewhere in the middle we ought to be able to come to some agreement. But, that nickel that was in there it was in some of those other figures, it was in the surcharge it was in there. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Don't forget where we started in all fairness to these guys they weren't here. In all fairness when we started off and broke away from negotiating with other people based on the fact that you are going to meet us at the center of the river you are going to share the maintenance on the pipe when I say you, the Town of Queensbury and now since January that's change..... (TAPE 4) CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-We tried to meet your need in that regard it was dismissed offhand. We'll see you the five hundred ten. We'll sell you the other in increments without interest with no interest at all. We had tried in a thousand ways to get this done. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We had an argument there was no interest. Everybody said no we never discussed no interest. I pulled out the tape and had it transcribed that says definitely there was no interest. There has been some questions about who remembers what was said. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Did you look at the proposal then? COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Harry, Harry, everything that we're doing here is telling Moreau water what it cost our people. Whether anybody likes it or not as long as I'm setting here I am not going to sign a contract for anybody that gives them water less than my people got to pay. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-I understand where you are coming from.... COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That's what its all about. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-We're not trying to put you in a compromising position believe me. I think the thing is we're trying to decide what is fair and what is true cost. If we really want to go to your true cost you are paying on, if you call it fifteen houses or fifteen story building, fifteen million gallons you are paying now for eleven and a half empty stories now. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-That's not true at all. Our average day was three point five million that's interesting. This summer on the day we needed nine million we used nine stories of that building. So to sit there and say we're only using three and a half is a gross inaccuracy. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Tell me this. Even if you are rated at fifteen MGD you can put out twenty two MGD.... WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VANDUSEN-No. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-How much can you put out? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-The Health Department says fifteen is the number. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-At the present time Ralph that's all we can draw out of the river. COUNCILMAN TURNER-The intakes aren't big enough. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-One of the things regarding Harry's recollection on the interest. I hear what you are saying about somebody said one day that we're going to do this without interest and you keep coming back to. . . .. but, as an astute business person we're talking about a contract at cost. If you think you heard somebody say that you have to question whether that's what they really meant because interest is a cost. So throwing that back somebody is like, well somebody said one day we're going to do this without interest obviously that was a misunderstanding interest is a cost in a contract like this. The bottom line is whether you heard it or not you would have to say that doesn't make sense that's wrong. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That's a small point. But, again I think the nickel is an emotional issue with your board. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It is because it's something........ COUNCILMAN MERRILL-You are not looking at the bottom line cost. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-It is it was something that... . discussing it yes we can do away with the nickel and now it's putting it back in. COUNCILMAN IRISH-We did but it was in a surcharge. We always covered our transmission cost whether it was a nickel or fifty cents. . ... COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That nickel is less than I'm paying Harry and I've been paying into that freakin water plant for twenty years and it's less than I'm paying it don't make sense. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-And it's not inflated. There is nothing in there that says twenty years from now it's still going to be a nickel... ... SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-Hopefully it will be less than that if you get your energy deregulation. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I'm just talking about the market I'm not talking about true costs, I'm talking about market. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I guess I would be interested to see if Dick has any words of wisdom. MR. DINOLFO-I still think there is hope that you gentlemen and both Town Boards can come to an agreement that's workable for both communities. I do feel that this would be a benefit to the entire community in addition to the two towns. I would say if you have a legal concern about the future benefit that you contact our legal staff and discuss with them or have your attorney contact our legal staff. I think you are talking about points that you need to come to some agreement on. Although you mentioned a lot of them I think there is just a few of them that you really need to look at and say what is it worth. That's what I would propose to you and suggest that you quantify what these points are worth put them on one sheet of paper so you can all look at them so the various Town Board can look at them and say these are the dollars we're talking about are these worth not having this contract. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I think there are only two. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-The nickel... ... CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-I think there are a lot more because I think that Moreau when you say what's the value of the contract that's the cost of the contract, but there are a lot of values in this contract that I think Moreau has devalued, such as the plant is here, it is operating, it's not on a sheet of paper, it has been financed, it does have a three point five five rate which mayor may not be available in the future. It does have the capacity we are a willing supplier we have to just cover our cost. You are getting three million gallons of capacity volume that you are not buying but you are getting the benefit. All these factors, I think are values to Moreau that they are just throwing out and saying, yeah but our three hundred thousand to you means a lot more to you than your three million means to us. I think what Dick said if they looked at the value of all those factors the cost would become secondary. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Let me just add to that. We've been talking to Lake George Village about a sewer operation in North Queensbury. As I sit on those committees and I look at the value that they have in place up there verses the value of Queensbury doing its own thing and where the control is and what my future destiny is going to be you have to measure the value of doing it yourself. That's why this great State of New York, people, communities, school districts, cannot come together and share in their resources. It's that little thing that you wrap your arms around and say it's mine and I want to do it this way. I've got to tell you and Harry and I had some conversation we know what it cost to build a package plant. He's right now I'm sure he is weighing in his mind what the river crossing, seven hundred and fifty thousand, the cost of this, cost of that. Lake George just got what thirteen million dollars up there to do their thing god bless Moreau if they were to get ten million dollars to do their thing to me regionalism has a value it really has a value. Twenty years from now or fifty years from now is this going to be a monument to future success in these communities I think it has some value to that. I guess, I'm looking at value outside of nickels and dimes in terms of where this thing might take us. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-That's why we liked the regional concept there is no question in my mind. Lake George maybe could of someday could have been a part of it now obviously they won't be. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We could have never of pumped water up there, there is too much rock up there that was never a consideration. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-It was just a lot of options to justify a regional water plant. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Can you imagine this water plant going to thirty million gallons of water a day pumping it to Wilton, pumping it god only knows to Schuylerville where ever you got to go south, east, west. Now you are buying water Pliney for twenty cents a thousand....... COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I can imaging it but I can't go to the bank and borrow a dime on it and you can't either. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-You got it from EFC on it up to fifteen MGD. COUNCILMAN IRISH-That's because the plant was here. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What was your first plans bonding it? UNKNOWN-Yeah. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-You convinced those people you could do it you bonding it originally. WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-Convinced it we could pay for it with just existing tax base. CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-We got an eighty million dollar borrowing capacity. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What is your debt on that note? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-On the plant? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-It's a little over twelve million. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-What did you originally borrow? WATER SUPERINTENDENT, MR. VAN DUSEN-Eight an a half million was the original bond and there was a BAN for a hundred and million and a half. We used the fund balance for the other million something. SUPERVISOR GUTHEIL-So the bonds you just refinanced? CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-Eleven two we got our money back. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-The only reason correct me if I'm wrong the only reason we got that kind of financing is our whole act was totally together and the plant was there. It wasn't on the assumption that five years down the road we were going to have the plant that it was there it could feed what they were financing. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Okay. I like to move along thank you again. RESOLUTIONS RESOLUTION ENTERING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO. 318.98 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Douglas Irish WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Richard Merrill RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and enters into the Queensbury Board of Health. Duly adopted this 20th day of August, 1998, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Merrill, Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Champagne Noes: None Absent:None RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON APPLICATION FOR VARIANCES FROM SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL ORDINANCE FOR JOAN DENTON RESOLUTION NO.: 43.98 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Richard Merrill WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHEREAS, by law the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is also the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury and is authorized under Chapter 136 of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance to issue variances from the Ordinance, and WHEREAS, Joan Denton has applied to the Queensbury Local Board of Health for three (3) variances from the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance set forth in Chapter 136, Appendix A and Tables 5 and 6, such application requesting that there be 1.seepage pits installed one-hundred thirty-three feet (133') from the well in lieu of the required one- hundred fifty feet (150') setback; 1.230 square feet of absorptive area installed in lieu of the required 500 square feet of absorptive area for a three (3) bedroom home; and Lan approximate fifteen feet (15') separation distance between the seepage pits in lieu of the required approximate thirty feet (30') separation distance as required by New York State Department of Health regulations; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury will hold a public hearing on September 3rd, 1998, at 7:00 p.m., at the Queensbury Activities Center, (reasonably accessible to persons with mobility impairment) 742 Bay Road, Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, to consider Joan Denton's application for three (3) variances from the Town's Sewage Disposal Ordinance on property situated at 2297 Ridge Road, Queensbury, New York and bearing Tax Map No.: 21-1-8.1 and at that time all persons interested in the subject thereof will be heard, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury be and is hereby directed and authorized, when in receipt of a list of neighbors within five-hundred feet (500') of the subject property, to publish and provide Notice of said Public Hearing as may be required by law, and authorized to mail copies of said Public Hearing Notice to the adjoining neighbors. Duly adopted this 20th day of August, 1998, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Merrill, Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Champagne NOES None ABSENT:None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO. 44. 98 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Douglas Irish RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjourns from session and moves back into the Town Board of Queensbury. Duly adopted this 20th day of August, 1998, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Merrill, Mr. Champagne Noes: None Absent:None DISCUSSION HELD BEFORE VOTE: COUNCILMAN IRISH-Noted that this plan is for a three bedroom house he will have to resubmit plans because the only plans we have are for a five bedroom house. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That has been made clear to them. Noted he has examined the property noting he has no problem with this. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Questioned if the septic qualifies for a three bedroom home? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yes. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Noted that he doesn't have to replace what's there. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Tom Nace has put it in writing that he feels comfortable with this. SAGA CITY REPRESENTATIVES VISIT SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Noted that Saga City Representatives will visit on Monday, August 31st, at 11: 15 a.rn. Spoke to the board regarding the exchange of gifts for representatives. Asked the board if they would be in agreement to spend up to $200.00 for the purpose of providing gifts, board in agreement. EDDY GROUP SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Spoke to the board regarding the pilot noting the Eddy Group would like a response back. Noted from his position the board needs to take a position as to what kind of a tax abatement they would want to put into effect. RESOLUTION ENTERING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 318A. 98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. DOUGLAS IRISH WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and moves into Executive Session to discuss assessment litigation. Duly adopted this 20th day of August, 1998, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Merrill, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Turner, Mr. Champagne Noes: None Absent:None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 318B. 98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. DOUGALS IRISH WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. RICHARD MERRILL RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session and moves back into Regular Session. Duly adopted this 20th day of August, 1998, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Merrill, Mr. Champagne Noes: None Absent:None No further action taken. On motion the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully Submitted, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury