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1998-11-23-S SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING NOVEMBER 23, 1998 7:05 P.M. MTG #62 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR FRED CHAMPAGNE COUNCILMAN RICHARD MERRILL COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DOUGLAS IRISH COUNCILMAN PLINEY TUCKER TOWN COUNSEL BEN PRATT TOWN OFFICIALS Chris Round, Executive Director of Community Development GUESTS John Lemery, Counsel Jim Martin, Site Consultant, LA Group PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE Supervisor Champagne called meeting to order... I'd like to call on Chris Round to explain the purpose of tonight's meeting. PUBLIC HEARING - REZONING NOTICE SHOWN CHRIS ROUND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-Tonight, as you know is a public hearing on the DEIS for the zone change, Site Plan Review for the Cracker Barrel project. The Town Board sought and received lead agency status for the purposes of SEQRA review for this action. A public hearing was conducted by the Town Board June 29th, 1998 and I did prepare a milestone since there is a significant project history here that there are time frames, time charts both at the table and at the microphone for your review. The applicant responded to public comments received at that June 29th hearing on August 26th and we received them here at the town. The applicant then issued a DEIS, a Draft Environmental Impact Statement on October 9th. After reviewing and commenting, the Town Board accepted the DEIS and concurrently issued a positive declaration on November 2nd, 1998 at a Regular Town Board Meeting. That brings us to tonight's meeting. Tonight there will be no action taken by the Town Board, it's strictly a public hearing to receive comments from the public for discussion. The public comment period is open through December 4th and we will receive written comment through that time frame. After that, the applicant will respond to any public comment including that received tonight and issue a final EIS. The FEIS should be issued forty- five days from tonight, it's a procedural time limit. The town will then review the FEIS for adequacy and accuracy and file a Notice of Completion. A finding statement then must be prepared for each, by each involved agency and then the Town Board then may act on the zone change and that's the only thing that the Town Board will act on in the future, is the zone change. If the Town Board acts affirmatively, the project will then go through the site plan review process and then with that, I'll turn it back over to you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Okay, thank you very much. I'll just ask you to come to the front of the room, please speak directly into the mic, everything that's going to be said here tonight obviously will be on record. So with that said, I believe the board is ready to listen. Are we ready to listen? We're ready to listen, so let's see who wants to go first. Okay, sure John, why don't you do that? COUNSEL JOHN LEMERY-Supervisor Champagne, members of the Town Board, my name is John Lemery, I'm with the law firm of Lemery and Reid, we're counsel to the project. With me tonight, to answer any questions either you might have or to respond to public comments, Jim Martin of the LA Group, the site consultants for the project and Len Vezina whose with the Cracker Barrel Corporation in both the site development and construction side. With your permission, I would just like to read very briefly into the record some, one or two sections of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement which was provided to the Town Board recently. In 1992 Charles Wood petitioned the Town Board for a change in zone for the subject site in connection with the potential sale of the site to the General Mills Restaurant, the owners of the Red Lobster chain of restaurants. As part of the 1992 application, Mr. Wood submitted information to the board regarding environmental and social impacts specific to a restaurant. The Planning Board at that time recommended approval of the 1992 application, however the applicant withdrew the application for rezoning prior to the Town Board voting on such rezoning. The current petition for a change in zone contemplates that the site would be developed as a location for a Cracker Barrel Restaurant. The site's location configuration and market demographics fit in well with the applicant's plans for expansion in New York State. The Planning Board again of this town has again recommended approval of the rezoning by resolution at their meeting in January of 1998. The project will take the place of a currently undeveloped residentially zoned parcel of land located in the center of the commercial quarter of the Town of Queensbury and unsuited for residential use. The needs which will be met by the proposed change are several. First, a buffer would be permanently created protecting the residential area to the north. Second, allowing commercial development on that portion of the site fronting on Aviation Road would be in keeping with the surrounding properties. The commercial development would also serve economic interests of the town by providing additional fees to offset the costs of solid waste collection facilities, additional real property taxes and the additional employment of approximately one hundred and thirty town residents. The areas adjacent to the subject site are zoned HClA with the exception of the Greenway residential subdivision which is located to the north of the property. In 1967 when the Town of Queensbury enacted zoning for the first time, the subject site along with the entire Aviation Road commercial corridor was zoned Commercial C3. Then in 1982 the site, the subject site was rezoned Urban Residential UR5 and remained a UR5 zone until 1988 when the town enacted widespread changes to it's Zoning Ordinance and designated the subject site as a Single Family Residential. I'm sorry, as Single Family Residential. Since the time of the 1988 town wide rezoning and during and after the 1992 rezoning application filed by Mr. Wood, the Town of Queensbury in 1990 approved the creation of an ESC-25A zone and the reclassification for parcel occupied by Aviation Mall in connection with the expansion of that mall which is located directly across Aviation Road from the subject site. In fact, with the exception of the cemetery located on Aviation Road, every property on Aviation Road between 1-87 and Route 9 and continuing to Quaker Road is commercial in nature. The proposed project is therefore compatible with adjacent zones. The proposed project is the development of a nine thousand four hundred and sixty-two square foot restaurant and associated parking area. Approximately forty-four percent of the project site will be undeveloped and will act as a buffer between the proposed residential use and adjacent, the proposed commercial use and adjacent residential use. If you could just give me one minute here. Mr. Supervisor, the project site comprises 4.44 acres of which approximately 2.5 acres would be developed. The developed area will be approximately triangular in shape as is the parcel on the site plan. On the side bordering New York State Route 254, the developed area will extend to the property line and contrast on the north side, there will be a hundred foot wide undeveloped buffer zone between the developed area and Old Aviation Road. On the east side there will be a seventy-five foot wide buffer zone between the developed area and the rear of the house lots along Burch Lane. The buffer zones will be dedicated as forever not to be developed areas. There will be one building on the site with a total square foot floor area of nine thousand four hundred and sixty-two feet. The kitchen and support facilities will occupy approximately four thousand square feet and the gift shop will occupy two to three thousand square feet. The remaining twenty-six hundred to three thousand six hundred square feet will be devoted to the dining room with one hundred and eighty-four seats. There will be a total of one hundred and forty-nine parking places consisting of one hundred and thirty-nine spaces for cars, six handicapped parking spaces and four spaces for buses and recreational vehicles. The parking lot, building, landscaping and roadways will occupy approximately 2.5 acres of the site. Maintaining the existing site use would avoid any further increases in traffic and demand on community services or resources or energy uses, however it would not accomplish any of the objectives or benefits of the proposed project including the creation of the additional jobs or tax revenues for the town. The owner of the subject parcel will not consider a no action alternative. And as a matter of fact, in the no action alternative, the site could be developed as of right, as a residential subdivision which would potentially remove all the trees on the project site. A residential development would consume more in public services, such a use would be in ... with the site's proximity to Aviation Road which presents a safety issue for potential site residents particularly small children and pets. I'd be glad to answer any questions, sir. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Okay, is there anyone from the audience would like to speak, please raise your hand and come forward. Yes sir, Roger. ROGER BOOR-My name is Roger Boor, 83 Sunnyside East. You'll have to forgive me, I've got a little bit of a cold. Of the three meetings of the Planning Board and this, the third meeting of this board that I have attended where the zoning change has been the topic, I would have to say that less than five minutes of all this time has ever been cogent to rezoning concerns. There has never been to this day, any evidence brought forth by the applicant that the community needs or would any way benefit from the proposed change. Never has the applicant dealt with other allowable uses of the property under the zoning change he is seeking. Never has any kind of threshold been discussed for worse case scenarios that could occur under the zoning being requested. The only, and I repeat, the only legitimate discussion that has ever been raised by the applicant that are appropriate for rezoning hearings are the inferences that his client is suffering a hardship because of a current zoning. This case is weak at best. The one time, July 1992 listing of the property in a real estate multiple listing guide hardly characterizes an aggressive marketing approach and the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars per acre asking price is more in line with waterfront property on Lake George and roughly ten times the appraised value of the property. Is this a serious attempt to sell? I don't think so. If you would turn to page 6 of the Full Environmental Assessment Form, Item number 2 on this page states that Plaza Commercial designation being sought would allow for twenty-five thousand square foot building based on the 4.4 acre size of the property in question. Plaza Commercial designation allows for fast foot restaurants. Pages 17 and 18 of the DIES states that the expected turnover for fast food restaurants is forty-six point three cars for every thousand square feet per hour. Simple math tells us that this, just many, just one of many worse case scenarios could result in eleven hundred and fifty-nine cars per hour. Clearly it is this board's responsibility to take into account this worse case scenario. If this board believes that eleven hundred and fifty-nine cars per hour coming and going is acceptable, I would like to see the figures and a traffic study that would support this conclusion. If the board's response is well, we can impose restrictions on the site and the project, then I have even greater concerns. Granting a rezoning knowing that a number of restrictions are necessary smacks in the face of all logic. If this board or future boards views zoning as something that will be tailored for every project or application that rolls across the desk, we're going to end up with zoning that reads like the federal tax code. Plaza Commercial here will be different with Plaza Commercial here. Highway Commercial here will be like Light Industrial here and so on and so on. Why even have a Comprehensive Land Use Plan? If zoning laws as they exist today are not adequate for what the board feels is coming in the future or what is before it tonight, then by all means get a committee appointed and let's start identifying where zoning laws are inadequate and create some different designations. Zoning should provide a clear picture of how the life blood of the community is maintained and enriched. These are the concerns and issues this board should be looking at. A comprehensive land use master plan and enforced zoning laws are the only thing the public can rely when buying a property as a residence or business, consistency is vitally important and it reflects the strength of your leadership and ultimately instills public confidence. Please don't start awarding zoning changes on a highest bidder basis. Demonstrable proof of public need and benefit must come before all other considerations. Since I've followed and been a party to the opposition of this rezoning to Plaza Commercial, discussions have always dealt exclusively with site plan review concerns for a Cracker Barrel Restaurant right down to artist renderings, parking lot size, number of employees, number of shift changes and on and on. You all know that is what this has always been, a site plan review. I don't expect any of you to jump out of your chair and say, yea, you're right but I know, many of the audience behind me know, the applicant knows and so do all of you. You're all intelligent people, please don't let your personal wishes interfere with what clearly is not in the best interest of the public. You all know that this is still a site plan review for a Cracker Barrel, not by any stretch a legitimate agenda item under current zoning. We're here to discuss rezoning and that's all. Even the applicant has stopped pretending that this hearing is about rezoning, just look at the cover of his EIS. What does it say? It says change of zone, site plan approval for a Cracker Barrel Old Country Store. Not an agenda item and further evidence of the contempt the applicant has for the adopted town procedures as they apply to rezoning. What I would really like to address tonight is the quality of the work before you. We all have in the past been part of a work project or effort that we later look back on and said gees, I could have done a better job. And I'm sure this is going to be the case of the LA Group as it relates to this document I hold in my hand here, the Full Environmental Assessment Form signed by the town's former Planning Director, Jim Martin a man who is eminently qualified to know what it is expected and how to fill out said form. I must say this is the most ill-prepared, slip shod piece of work I've seen since Junior High and coincidentally, my Junior High Principal and resident of Greenway North is here tonight and I can only imagine what he thinks when he reads this material. The factual liberties and out right untruths are self evident in this document. For anyone to sign the verification on the last page that states, I certify that the information provided above is true to the best of my knowledge is unconscionable. It is hardly necessary for me to point out all the inaccuracies but let me at least share some of my favorites. The first page, number 2, page 2, total acreage of the project, 4.4 acres. How much of that is going to be metal and brush land? Presently, .58, after completion, .58. How much of it is forested? Presently 3.77, after, 3.77. This is going to be one hell of a project. Page 5, item 19. Question, will project routinely produce odors? It says no. I don't know any restaurant that doesn't produce odors and we're not here to talk about restaurants. Without knowing what's going there, how can you say no odors will be produced? Item 21, same page. Will project result in any increase to energy use? No. Underneath it says, if yes, indicate types, it says electricity and gas. Page 6, item 6. Is the proposed action consistent with recommended uses and adopted local land use plans? It says yes. It's not, you can't do that, we don't have an adopted local land use plan that says you can do that, that that's zoned the way he portraying it. Item 12 on that page. Will the proposed action result in the generation of traffic significantly above present levels? No. That's just not true. Was this a serious attempt to fill out this form or the continuation of a cavalier attitude that has prevailed since day one of this rezoning attempt. These mistakes just aren't forgetting to dot I's and cross T's. The quality of this work is more of a reflection of somebody that feels the project is a done deal and all that needs to be done is a little theater acting, a going through the motions, if you will. The cornerstone assumption of all of the applicant's material, studies and arguments is that from now to eternity this property will remain a Cracker Barrel. This is ludicrous. No one in this room can make that guarantee and that's why we should never again here the name Cracker Barrel when discussing the rezoning of this property or any property. All documentation studies and opinions provided by the applicant deal only with a Cracker Barrel. I could go on but I want to be respectful of your time and more importantly, I want to be respectful of the time of the homeowners and the members of the community at large who are here again, some knowing that the decisions made here tonight might mean that they won't have homes to return to. There's a tremendous difference between a house and a home. The applicant sees homes that surround the property in question as mere houses or obstacles that must be removed or degraded so that his client can gamer a sum that is roughly ten times the appraised value. The town is also not without blame. Someone in the town has to accept some responsibility for what the Greenway North residents are going through. I don't want to believe that this board or whoever authorizes this agenda item actually read this material before scheduling this rezoning hearing. It's cruel, it's unfair and it's irresponsible for this board to once again inject residents of Greenway North with enough adrenaline to cause or bring on a fight or flight state, not based on the poorly constructed incorrect information you have before you. This may be an agenda item or political cap feather to some of you but rezoning this parcel now for reasons still unstated would rob what has amounted to a life time of work, pride and investment for homeowners in this area. How do you put a value on friendship of a seventy-five year old man or woman with his neighbor of forty years. A relationship this project puts in jeopardy. When you reach the golden years all the money in the world can't replace a lifelong friendship, you just can't buy these people off. Let us not forget the successive county boards voted against this rezoning the last time unanimously. Let us not forget that the land use plan that currently exists does not allow for what the applicant is requesting. Let us not forget that the draft of the new land use plan would not allow what the applicant is asking. Many people worked long and hard on the new land use plan in as an unbiased opinion as it can be hoped for, they determined that Plaza Commercial is not appropriate for the property in question. With all that's coming down the pike, the mall expansion, a proposed connector road, ecetera, extreme caution should be the course taken. A good poke never raises the ante without looking at his cards and quite frankly until the cards are all dealt, it's best to hold pat. In closing I would like to express my fears that this board is unwittingly putting itself in a subordinate position, when it should in fact be a lead agency. The fact that the mall expansion and this rezoning effort are being conducted by the same law firm and architectural firm, this reality could put the board, place the board in a position where leverage from one project is exercised to force unreasonable and unwise concessions for the other. All of this could potentially put the public in a position to accept the unacceptable. As evidenced by the quality of work and lack of truthfulness in these documents as they pertain to straight forward laymen issues, who is going to be qualified to protect the town's interest on the more difficult scientific and engineering issues as they relate to traffic and other not so straightforward issues? Serious concerns and flags are already flying and it should be evident after reviewing these documents here tonight that not one sentence from the architectural engineering firm of record should accept, be accepted or relied as either being true or accurate. They come before you as paid advocates, we come before you as concerned potential victims. You know, there's an old culinary adage and it states that when pasta, spaghetti first exhibits that ability to stick to the wall, it's at this point that said to be prepared properly and cooked to perfection. In a twisted end justifies the means approach, the applicant has shown us a new method of preparation. Every time he comes before this board or the Planning Board, he ultimately ends up throwing an uncooked box of pasta at the wall behind you. You know what he's thinking, he figures that if he gets up here enough times, throws that box a little harder each time, eventually it's going to stick, probably by virtue of the fact that the box is going to go right through the wall. It may stick but I can assure you it's neither prepared properly or in any way palatable. If this board tries to serve this course, it is quite possible this entire community can end up choking on it. Thank you. (statement submitted, on file in the Town Clerk's Office) SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anyone else care to speak? I'm going to ask you to hold your applause folks. We'd like to get through this evening, it's important that the board hears everyone out before the end of the evening so would you please hold you applause, at least until the end. I appreciate that. Okay, anyone else? Yes, sir. GLENN LUNT-Hi, my name is Glenn Lunt, I live at 10 Carlton Drive. I've been here before and it was the same thing I talked about before that I'm going to talk about tonight. On page 18, to reiterate what Roger said, another ninety cars an hour going through the intersection that my wife and I have to use day in and day out. That's ninety cars over and above the cars that are already using that. That whole Greenway North neighborhood has to use that because we can not take a left hand turn onto Aviation Road. It's imperative that we have that intersection for our use and I don't think that another ninety cars an hour will ever make it. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. John? JOHN STROUGH-John Strough, Queensbury. First of all, I'd like to hand this out, submit it for the record. (handout on file in the Town Clerk's Office) I suppose the first question I should ask is the right inside the cover. Is the condition of rezoning for a Cracker Barrel only or are we rezoning for a Plaza Commercial? Has it been conditioned? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We're not at that. Chris? MR. ROUND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-Pardon me? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-There's been no conditioning on this, right? The rezone is MR. ROUND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-No, this is a public hearing on the change, it's, the Town Board is to clarify things, the Town Board is lead agency on this, on the action. The action is rezoning and also for environmental review purposes, the site plan review. What we're commenting on is the Draft Environmental Impact Statement and how well the impact statement addresses the concerns of the community and the environmental impacts that are identified and there's no conditions, there's no, I mean there's no approval tonight for a specific project. MR. STROUGH-So it's basically for Plaza CommerciallA and for that, we have to consider the most intense uses. Okay, with that in mind, let's go to the back page. Some of the neighbors and I COUNCILMAN IRISH-That was quick, John. I thought we were going to read the whole thing. MR. STROUGH-Well, I, I'm not going to read the whole thing but I submitted it for the record and I will highlight parts that I think are important. I think the back page is probably most important and we got this information from their DEIS and I want to thank them for that and we did our own study and Tuesday night, we sat around counting cars on Greenway North. Now these are just the cars traveling on Greenway North because that will be the main access area for, we assume it might be the main access area for a proposed commercial use. So we got Tuesday night between four and five, ninety-six vehicles. Between five and six they got a hundred and thirteen and just to do a contrast, we did a weekend night, Friday night. Four to five, we got a hundred and twenty count from four and five and five to six we got a hundred and twenty-five count. Now, if you use the ITE, the Institute of Transportation Engineers formula, the commercial enterprise of maximum traffic impact which is 46.34 cars per one thousand square feet, floor space and this is for a fast food drive through which I assume could be there in Plaza Commercial, correct? And we'll take the twenty-five thousand square foot, you generate one thousand one hundred and fifty-nine additional vehicular trips at peak hour. One thousand one hundred and fifty-nine. Now, how much above, let's see peak hour, a hundred and twenty-five we got at our peak hour. I think that's going to have an impact. And, just for practicality, I also took a look at the Cracker Barrel and again used the lTE formula. Now for a sit down, high turn over restaurant such as the Cracker Barrel is, has a trip generation rate of 26.66 per one thousand square feet and that's on page 18 of their DEIS. Using this formula for the proposed project at nine thousand four hundred and sixty-two square feet, you generate two hundred fifty- two additional vehicular trips at peak hour. That means three hundred and seventy-seven vehicles will try to safely use this section of Greenway North on the weekends at peak hour. Can the applicant guarantee that this additional traffic impact would not impact the residential area this parcel is surrounded by? Neither of the above traffic impacts is acceptable, both would degrade the quality oflife that the Glen Acres residents currently enjoy. Also, good planning should include consideration of the following. The traffic configuration surrounding this parcel. The impact of the three hundred percent increase in the size of the Aviation Mall. The impact of the connector road. The impact of future commercial development along Quaker Road and Route 9. Let's not jeopardize that area's future growth potential by creating a bottleneck at Greenway North and Aviation Road. This section of Greenway North is only a hundred and seventy-five feet and is at a six percent grade. We should consider this because that's going to be the main access site to this proposed commercial industry. Families, okay, we have a hundred and ten homes. They depend on this site as their primary access. This site is the only signalized for the Glen Acres residential area. The site distance is less then ideal. I think you'll agree. Entering and leaving vehicles would further aggravate traffic flow. Six point seven percent of Warren County accidents occur along this stretch of Aviation Road not including the Northway intersection and that does not include Route 9 intersection. Greenway North is too narrow, twenty-two feet. Illegal cut through traffic will probably increase and overflow parking would dramatically hamper traffic flow. Okay, now I'll go to Roman Numeral i or Roman Numeral One rather. The first thing I'd like to clear up is that it is a nine thousand four hundred and sixty-two square foot restaurant. Okay, as opposed to what was in the resolution. All right, our comments. This project is not compatible with adjacent land uses. Most of the adjacent land use is residential. Approximately fifty-six percent of this parcel's perimeter borders an established residential area. Nine percent borders town or is it state, and thirty-five percent borders Aviation Road. See page 4 of the Cracker Barrel DEIS if you want clarification on that information. Okay and I've made the correction to Resolution Number 410,98. Notice that the proposed restaurant is nine thousand four hundred and sixty-two square feet. Still on Roman Numeral one, I have a comment that this is not a logical infill to this area. The applicant failed to include the very important and unique residential history of this area. That is, since the Northway, Exit 19, these people, the residents of Glen Acres, Greenway North residential development have been bombarded with commercial development and have experienced a decline of property values and quality oflife. You ought to get over and talk to those people if you don't think that's happened. Ask Mrs. Patterson, she's the one when you enter the exit, or the ramp on the Northway, the north ramp to the Northway, that's her house. I don't think you and I would care to live there but that's just one example of many. The rezoning of this particular parcel to PClA allowing a high impact commercial enterprise would devastate the maintenance of property values and they quality of life they currently enjoy. Roman Numeral two, I really don't think that the hundred and thirty jobs, most of whom will be low income jobs will actually benefit the town. The DEIS did not address the potential for negative secondary and long term effects. Try a cost analysis benefit. What is needed in our town is a comprehensive and strategic approach toward attaining real jobs. Also, since when did we start getting into, getting written guarantees that the labor and materials will be from local sources? And the DEIS states that, I don't think they can. They talk about soil stockpiles, yet in the Full Environmental Assessment Form where it talks about soil stockpiles, that part is left blank. Down at the bottom of Roman Numeral two, it says the building will be shielded by a buffer that will remain and it talks about light and I want to address that in my comment. The proposed buffer is grossly inadequate if the intent of that buffer is to shield the enjoining residential area from the Cracker Barrel's high profile visual impact. You can not negate the effects of lighted, we're talking about thirty-nine lighted poles that are twenty-five foot high, this is after the Cracker Barrel has been raised to a level of approximately fourteen feet because there is going to be a fourteen foot retaining wall. So, we're talking about a potential height of thirty-nine feet above grade level, current grade level. Okay, this is not going to be mitigated by a hundred foot buffer. Roman Numeral three, we're talking about transportation and traffic impacts. This analysis did not include the potential increase traffic impacts of the mall expansion and the proposed connector road on that intersection. I mean at some point in time, we ought to take a look-see and not like usual where we realize our mistaken judgments only after the fact and once again, say whoops. Nor is the analysis an objective study. I mean if I paid for it, I'm sure the results would have been very different. See my analysis later in this critique. Yea, we already looked at it, that was the last page. The proposed project will not have an impact on surrounding land uses. Again, I'll repeat, fifty- six percent of the surrounding land use is residential. Is the applicant saying with a straight face that this project will not have an impact? Okay, on item six, they do talk of increase in traffic volumes and it was the only point in which the applicant and I agreed. Number eight talks about the existing area as a business area. Well, let's throw balanced planning to the wind, let's cram it right full of commercialism. Let's cram it full, we don't want any open space, trees. It's apt to have a negative impact on current commercial enterprises and future growth because this intersection, Aviation Road and Greenway North will become downgraded. If we consider the three hundred percent increase in the mall, we consider the connector road which I believe is sometime referred to as the Greenway North connector road, it must have something to do with that intersection. And talking about the connector road, when will that be available for public forum? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's still on DOT's boards, yet to be determined. MR. STROUGH-Okay but what I'm saying is, taking a look at the big picture. I know at one time we talked about doing a comprehensive traffic study. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's still in the works although I understand the contract has not be granted yet, is that correct Chris? MR. ROUND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-I guess I don't know what you're referring to. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We're talking about the study of the Greenway North, again as a second study, traffic. MR. ROUND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-That's part of DOT's project. COUNCILMAN IRISH-You're talking about a town wide study, aren't you? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Oh, no, no. MR. STROUGH-Yea, what I'm talking about, at least the Aviation Road corridor and that's what we referred to before and Dick thought it was a good idea. And I think it's a good idea and I think it's something we better do. One thing we don't want to do is create another, shall I say, nightmare in that area. On page Roman Numeral four, we'll move on here so we can get this done, they consider the alternatives and no where did the applicant address the compromise alternative. The residents, most of whom would wish this parcel remain treed would be willing to accept a lower impact type of enterprise. Cultural Professional is the recommendation of the 1998 Comprehensive Land Use Plan Committee. Again, they state that, it talks about pedestrian safety and I say thank you for the argument, it only reinforces our argument not to rezone because the rezoning as proposed would only push high impact commercialism farther into residential area. Alternative sites, I really, seriously don't see anything in the DEIS although I suspect that the applicant is been looking for alternative sites, that they did not address it in the DEIS. We do have a vacant Fazoli's, we have a vacant Seven Steers and I've been down to the Cracker Barrel on Exit 9 three times doing my homework. I ate there, I observed the traffic flow. Let me just tell you when I went, when I first went there, we're early eaters so I went there at four o'clock and had to wait in line. I'll give them that, they are very popular if I'm waiting in line at four o'clock. Now what's interesting is the second time I went there, I waited in line but this time it was in traffic out in Route 9. If your familiar with the Cracker Barrel at Exit 9, the Crossroad Plaza there. I was stopped on Route 9, one thing I never anticipated, never even thought of was stacking going into the place. Now, I had considered stacking going out and I considered that to be a problem and we took a look at that and we tried to resolve that problem by making a longer driveway. Never did I think, so I looked in the Cracker Barrel parking lot, it was full. People were backed up waiting there, looking for empty spaces in the parking lot. The stacking went all the way out to Route 9. So, there I am stopped for cars going into the Cracker Barrel. This place is a high volume industry and I think we have to consider that in our rezoning even though we're rezoning for Plaza Commercial. Again, an inadequate or ineffectual buffer of this type of proposal, talking about the buffer again after proximity to the residential areas taking into consideration would be, as I say, inadequate, ineffectual. In your alternative designs to you consider the impact of that dumpster and the removal of three thousand four hundred pounds worth of garbage each month, see the DEIS page 4, near the back yard of a Birch Lane resident. Okay the project will require, okay, let's talk about the road cut. How could anybody approve a road cut on Aviation Road? I'm we're trying to get rid of road cuts. We're trying to improve the flow on arterial roads. Well this road cut doesn't have ingress and egress ramps like they do at Lowe's and O'Tooles. I mean traffic is going to be in that lane, it's going to come to almost to a halt and they're going to turn into the Cracker Barrel stopping everything back in that lane. Okay, Joanna Brunso, former New York State Department of Transportation official for this district said that the curb cut at this site along Aviation Road would not be recommended. She said, site distances at realistic speeds. Realistic speed is not 35 miles an hour. You show me someone that's going up Aviation Road at 35 miles an hour, they're traveling 45,50. Those are the cars that are going to be approaching that curb cut. I don't think it's a good idea. Okay, now to page one, basically the proposed use is not compatible for this site even though they state it is compatible. Take a look at past C.A.R.E submissions, letters to the editor, letters to the Town Board, Warren County Planning Board assessment, personal testimony in Town Board Minutes, newspaper articles. How many of those petitions did we get, that were sent in regarding the rezoning? I think several hundred. And position statement by the Citizens for Queensbury, ecetera. Okay, down at the bottom of page 1. In overall assessment of an EIS. I'm new to the EIS. I read through this thoroughly. Did I miss something? I thought an EIS was a realistic attempt to identify the impacts. If this EIS is typical then, what is the value of an EIS? Everything has been whitewashed and frosting coated. The negative impacts are never seriously addressed. Possibly the remedy would be to only allow independent sources, paid for by the town to do future EISs. Background and history on page 2. The history of this site is a history of rezoning denial. The history of this site is why this rezonings efforts have been historically denied. And then talk about public need for the project. One thing I don't think we need is another fast food sit down restaurant. I don't think there is a great need for that. But I do think this site is better suited for Cultural Professional and we do ask for a compromise. Again, we state that this buffer that they are advocating would work well with Cultural Professional use. This buffer does not act as a realistic buffer for an intense use. Again, they talk about the surrounding development. Fifty-six percent of the surrounding properties are residential. And talking about commercial development and what they're going to save our town and they give the waste collection as a way we're going to save money and our town, if I remember right, I think they'll pay about fifty-five dollars a ton and you and I, the taxpayers pay eighty something dollars a ton, I believe. I don't really see where that's going to help us. And again, on page 3, comment, fifty-six percent of this parcel borders on well established residential area. We're talking homes, homes that real people live in, and whose quality of life would be severely injured by this proposal, theirs. And then let's talk about the Master Plan because they never really address that in the DEIS. Both the 1988 Comprehensive Land Use Plan and the proposed 1998 Comprehensive Land Use Plan call for something more moderate in that area. The residential area and if you remember from the minutes, Joe Carusone and the care package that I had given you previously, imagined that they felt that the residential area needed some kind of protection. They didn't know what else to do so they zoned it residential for lack of anything else and even then there was a statement for a need for some new zoning types. Something that would be transitional in nature. We don't have as many as we should. And again, the 1998 proposed Comprehensive Land Use Plan calls for something of a more moderate nature, Cultural Professional. The compromise the applicant has refused to address. The one hundred foot buffer would work for many types of commercial enterprises but not for all Plaza Commercial applications. For example, it will not work for a fast food sit down restaurant. Okay, forever wild today, gone wild tomorrow, that's what I say. And then we'll talk about jobs again, but I think I pretty much address that. They say it would take local jobs from Queensbury and I just don't think we're talking, Queensbury, we're talking a whole lot of the area, it's inaccurate. Again, I talk about jobs. I'm not going to belabor that point. They do talk about how they anticipate four million dollars in annual sales and my, wow, that's going to be a lot of traffic. That was my comment. Again, without repeating myself and again, they repeat themselves but I'm not going to as often as they did. Again, I talked about the curb cut along Aviation Road, it would be unsafe. Real speeds and site distances, we're not taking into account. Second, inflow and outflow from the Aviation Road curb cut will jeopardize western traffic flow in that lane, a serious safety issue. Auto, truck, and bus stacking, stacking entering and exiting will hamper traffic flow on that very narrow Greenway North. A factor you can not mitigate at the location of access point, at this access point and it's close proximity to the intersection of Aviation Road. And then they talk about pedestrian safety and I said let's be real guys, the increase traffic flow along Greenway North will obviously reduce pedestrian safety. And I'm going to leave that alone. Inadequate buffer, I addressed that. Oh seating and parking. Yea, I have some, on page 5, I discuss parking. Now I looked at the parking. I'm no parking expert, I'll be the first one to omit. I mean I don't design parking lots but I can look at that parking lot and I can see serious problems. Now, I know they would like to have a hundred and thirty-nine parking spaces there but I don't think they're going to get a hundred thirty-nine parking spaces there and if you want to take the time, I'll show you the problems with it some time, after the meeting or what have you. But I'm sure they're not going to end up, if it passes and we do have a Cracker Barrel, they're not going to end up with a hundred and thirty-nine parking spots. They're going to end up with a lot less then that given the square foot area that they've agreed to develop. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Well John, if it is approved, obviously that's site plan review for the Planning Board. So, that's really MR. STROUGH-Well it's all site plan review, Fred. This whole thing, I mean DEIS, I'm just talking about what they talked about, so. It's all site plan and it's not supposed to be but it is but then again, how can you address the topic unless you're addressing the topic, I know what you mean. But what I'm trying to suggest is that they're trying to cram too much into that area, that it won't fit. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole. Okay? That's what I'm trying to say in a hundred different ways. And I'm very worried about traffic. I'm very worried about the quality of life for the people in the area. I'm worried about the value of their homes and if you go and you meet with these people as I have and you talk with them first hand about what commercialism has done to them in the last ten years, you would be sympathetic. You really would. And again, on page 6, I talk about the fourteen foot retaining wall. The thirty-nine, twenty-five foot tall light poles that I know that they're going to have some kind of lighting that's going to direct the light down the parking lot. That's still not going to be mitigated by one hundred foot buffer, you're going to see that parking lot from those homes just as clear as day. And then, we're talking about the hours, six to ten on the weekdays, six to eleven on weekends but then they admit that the employees will be in early and they'll be working late so the hours actually will be before and after that. At some point, we've got to consider that. And I know, I talk about the visual experience and I know that everyone over there is delighted with that HESS sign, it's just beautiful. Oh trucks, buses and trucks. Now I picture myself as a truck driver trying to make that turn onto Greenway North and without, on a twenty-two foot wide road, trying to swing my rig so that I can sweep down that little road going into the Cracker Barrel building. Boy, oh boy, that's tight. Now, I've driven school buses, I know what's tight. Now a tractor trailer is even bigger then the school buses I've driven. I don't see how they're going to get in there and then once the buses are parked. Like I said, there's a lot of things I really got to go over this with you and like you said, Fred, it's site plan stuffbut my point is, you're trying to cram too much into too small of an area. This is just too high of an impact for that piece of property. Okay, and then the noisy delivery trucks, the noisy snow removal, blah, blah, blah, okay. Well, let me see, the last, I finally got to page 7, sorry guys. Well, I only had enough time to review the first seven pages, I just have to come back and give you the rest another time. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's fine. MR. STROUGH-I know you look forward to that. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- That's fine, just don't forget to come back. MR. STROUGH-Okay, and at one point in time on page 22D, they dismiss the noise and odors, that's already been addressed and let me just say in closing that change and changing for the better are two different things. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Okay, anyone else? CAROL YN L UNT -Good evening, Carolyn Lunt and I live at 10 Carlton Drive. Haven't lived there, only about four years and during those four years I've been here so many times it makes me nervous to think about it. I just wanted to mention to you that although the Greenway North area is surrounded by the Northway, Wal-Marts, Pizza Hut, you know, all of those commercial things and the Aviation Mallon the other side, don't think we like it. We don't. It's very, it's hard to find the right words especially when I'm nervous. It's just not great. It's not wonderful with your windows open in the Summer and all you hear is traffic. You can't hear the crickets. I grew up in the country so I miss the crickets. And then in the morning if you wake early, you hear the backing up of the big trucks and the dumpsters and stuff from Wal-Mart. It's only going to be worse if we get a restaurant of this nature in our area. John mentioned trucks and I have to tell you about an instance I just Friday. I was going to work Friday morning, I drive a very large van. I find myself hard to believe that I drive this and, but it's what we own and that's what I drive. And I was going to work and I have to take a left hand turn out of Carlton and I find that if I'm patient, I can get out but I have to be patient. I was there waiting to turn and this huge truck was trying to get into Carlton to go to the Hess station. I had to back up probably four car lengths to let him in. He didn't just come in on his side of the street, he came in on where I had been standing and then he had to wait for me to move to get turned to go into the Hess station. I can just imagine what this would be like if I had gone down to the light and a truck was trying to get in to go to this restaurant on that hill. There's a nasty little incline there. I've driven out on Aviation Road in the winter when there's been a fresh storm and it's terrible and to think that I would have to deal with that even more with a high volume restaurant in our neighborhood because in the winter time I do go down and use the light most of the time. And then to think of a road cut on Aviation, I've witnessed cars turning onto Birch Lane when I've come through the light at the lower end of the mall and it's kind of frightening because you're stepping on it to go up hill and suddenly somebody has got to take a sharp turn and if this is what it's going to be like with the restaurant there too, that's going to be, it's going to be, there's going to be a terrible accident. Chain reaction accident, it's just what I can picture in my mind. So, I just, I don't have a lot to, I actually do have a lot to say because I've spent nights wakening up in the middle of night just writing down my thoughts but I'm not going to burden you with them because you've heard a lot of it tonight already. You've heard it over and over again. But please, just consider the neighbors in this neighborhood. We have a right to be able to get in and out of our homes. If we can't get in and out of our homes, what are we going to do? We have no other way. We have no other way. We have to use those two entrances and exits into our homes and if you think that every day when you drive your car and you go out to go get a quart of milk that you're putting your life in your hands, that's exactly what it's going to be for us. That Hess station hasn't helped, I'll tell you. The Hess station has increased volume terribly and these trucks are even going through our neighborhood. You know, it's not fair, it's not right. I agree, Mr. Wood deserves to be able to sell his piece of property but let's try to put in there something that he'll be happy with and we'll be happy with. We can work it out. I'm sure we can. I have faith in you. So, I'm going to leave you with that. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. LEW STONE-Lew Stone, Queensbury. I really wasn't going to say anything tonight but I, some of you may be aware I recently wrote a letter to the Post Star, they gave it a big headline about the golden rule which was my thing. You heard the neighbors. The neighbors in, over and over and over again are saying, please help them. I know as a member of the Zoning Board of Appeals for the Town of Queensbury when people come to us for a variance, we listen very carefully to what the neighbors say. We encourage neighbors who like the project, like the granting of the applicant or the variance, to come and talk to us. It's very important to us to hear what the neighbors have to say and we are quite often guided by what the neighbors do say. The neighbors have been very clear, almost without exception. This is a very, watch my language, this is a unique neighborhood. Can't be very unique, that's not good English. This is a unique neighborhood. It has been assaulted on many sides over the years ever since the Northway was built. Let's not continue the assault on this neighborhood. Mr. Wood owns the property, that is right, he has a right to use it but let's use it for something that is in keeping with the character of the neighborhood. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. MARK HOFFMAN-Mark Hoffman, Fox Hollow Lane. I'm not going to repeat the comments which have been made. Just a quick response to the Environmental Impact Statement. Their response to my comments at the last hearing, comment 26 states that I was concerned that the change to Plaza Commercial doesn't provide enough protection for the neighborhood and they argue that there's more protection with this proposal then would be the case with a residential development. I certainly would disagree with that. Certainly a residential development would not expose the neighbors to the odors of a restaurant, the commercial waste disposal, the noise, the traffic, and so forth. Comment 27, I expressed concerns about other major traffic problems. They stated they assumed that I was referring to bridge construction. Actually I was not, I was referring to the, well there's been further commercial development along the Aviation Quaker corridor. There is currently, actually now there's substantial further proposed construction with the Aviation Mall expansion and in addition, the proposed Cracker Barrel itself or a comparable commercial designation has the potential of producing a thousand or more cars per hour based on information supplied on the Full Environmental Impact form, page 6. To say that that's not going to have a potential serious traffic impact I think is less then, is disingenuous. I would comment too that at one of these meetings, I believe it was the Planning Board the, it was suggested to the developer that a traffic study would be useful and his response was, I can get you a traffic study that, Mr. Lemery's response was, I can get you a traffic study that shows anything I want. I think that underlines the importance of independent objective review of any traffic impacts. Finally, comment 28, I was concerned about the change in zoning and how that affects predictability of zoning for property owners and you know, basically their response was that they changed it on us in the early 1980's and we're going to do it back to them again. I don't see that as a responsible way of dealing with this question. I think a more responsible approach would be to try to find some intermediate way of zoning it which would be less intense then a Plaza Commercial but which would still allow some enhanced use of the currently zoning. Thanks. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Yes, sir. DAN STEC-Dan Stec, 26 Heinrick Circle, Queensbury. I wasn't going to say anything either tonight but I was encouraged actually by what Mr. Strough and Mr. Stone said. I'm an engineer myself so I believe in looking at numbers and I was encouraged that the citizens that came here so for tonight have all presented a lot off acts where, you know the impression I got from the applicant is a little of the hand waving. Now by, according to Mr. Strough's numbers four million dollar sales annually, if you approximate twenty dollars a guest, that's two hundred thousand guests a year, that's about six hundred guests a day, that's two hundred cars a day over a four hour period of traffic by their own admission. Their estimates which you would think that an applicant could easily have, would probably has prepared estimates what they would expect traffic flow to be if they come up with a sales approximation and anyone that's in business knows that you don't go into business unless you have these kinds of sales forecasts. So without a forecast they probably got a traffic plan in mind. But you've got a fifty percent increase, according to their numbers, minimum and that's the average and you know, we're a seasonal area so there's going to be peaks. This does not consider the affect of the Aviation Mall expansion and that's a sizable expansion, we're not talking about a minor addition, that's going up three fold. There are several other suitable sites in the area. There's no need to rezone this parcel. Is it appropriate and I feel ill timed to consider rezoning at this time? Like Lew Stone, I'm a member of the Zoning Board of Appeals and we have a litmus test that we use there. I'm new there, you all know that, you appointed me a couple of months ago and I'd like to thank you again, publicly. But one of the big litmus test that we use when we're hearing a case is the benefit of the applicant versus the benefit of the community. Clearly the applicant would benefit, four million dollars worth of sales but you've got to consider the benefit of the community, to the community. The applicant has no more rights in this area then any other landowner. Same as a couple that's been there for four years, pays their taxes, they've got the same amount of rights. They've got a little more dollars to throw at the problem but everybody in that neighborhood has the same rights as far as we would be concerned on the Zoning Board. The numbers in attendance here tonight speak for themselves. I'd be very surprised to have anyone in the immediate community, for sure come in and speak in favor. And again, like I say, there are plenty of suitable alternatives and as far as the jobs and what was mentioned there, I think some points were brought up that if we're seeking for growth and expansion of the community, fast food sit down restaurants are not the answer. There's other alternatives that we should be looking at and you know, another restaurant isn't going to solve economic problems in the area. That's all I have to say. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Yes, Ma'am. KATHERINE KELLY-Good evening gentlemen, I'm Katherine Kelly, 13 Carlton Drive. I just, a lot of things were mentioned before me, okay with traffic and so forth. I would just like to point out also that with the Hess station, we have tractor trailers coming into our roads, off into Carlton Drive. They're trying to go down the hill to Greenway North. They can not maneuver the corner. Okay, so many times they have to back up and when you consider the rezoning, consider the neighborhood, please but also please consider the children in the area. We have school buses, not the big long ones but the smaller school buses coming up and there are a number of school bus stops. If there is just another car going down there, it's difficult for a passenger car to pass a school bus much less a tractor trailer. And I do not like to even think of the horrors that could happen if we have a much bigger traffic inflow. That's all I have to say, thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Yes, Dan. DANIEL OLSON-Daniel Olson, 29 Carlton Drive. I'm not going to refer to anything that was in the report or comments because I just want to make these remarks pretty short this evening because I've been before you before and I'm sure my information is part of the record and you'll consider that when you discuss this. But I've just approached a thirty year resident of the Town of Queensbury on Carlton Drive. I've lived other places in Queensbury before but in that area and the house that I'm in now, I'm pleased to say I've been there thirty years and I've liked to be able to live there another thirty years and maybe even longer but I may need some help to get any longer then that. You've heard good information here tonight. You've heard information from the people that live right in the immediate area. You've heard other people that live close by the area. And I also have paid a visit twice to a Cracker Barrel restaurant. I didn't go inside, I wasn't interested in going inside. I really start and pulled off to look at the outside of the building, look at how things were going and I saw a lot of traffic too. I saw traffic that was in between a lunch time and dinner hour that I would say, two-thirty to three thirty in the afternoon. The thing that I was amazed with and remembered in the applicant's introduction remarks this evening, only talked about four spots, four designated traffic parking places for buses. And I would assume, I didn't hear anything about RV's, I didn't hear anything about campers. Some of these large recreational vehicles, I'm not talking about motor homes and mini motor homes. I'm talking about large trucks with thirty foot travel trailers behind them. You get into a pretty long, you get into a fifty foot or fifty-five foot rig at that point plus the motor homes that seem to be attracted to this type of a restaurant, that's where a lot of their business comes from are people that are traveling. A lot of these people travel in convoys in groups of two or three people or more, they're looking for this type of a restaurant because they've been to other ones. So, I could project and I could see a real traffic jam especially in that Greenway North hill. The entrance isn't, these large vehicles going in there and trying to get out of there. My main, that's one of my concerns. My main concern is traffic as traffic on that sharp bend on that hill when that light on the corner of Route 9, Quaker Road, Aviation Road changes, it would be my understanding and I would think as any traffic consultant or engineer, when the light turns green, you want that traffic to move and get out of there and clean that area out. It isn't going to be too many more days now before we're going to start witnessing traffic jams, called grid lock in that Aviation Road area from the Northway right back down to Route 9 because the traffic lights don't move fast enough to get the traffic out of there. It's backed right up. The report talked about natural buffer. Well, a natural buffer is, I would believe to interpret it as trees, as shrubs, maybe grass. It doesn't say anything about the natural buffer that's existing today and growing. It doesn't specify that. There is a natural growth buffer, there of mostly Pine trees and some other type trees that are growing in that area. That's the growth of natural trees that have been there for, I don't know forty, fifty, maybe a hundred years some of those trees in there and I can't believe that the developer would be able to leave that seventy-five or hundred foot on the back of Old Aviation Road, whatever it is and not disturb any of that during their construction because a couple of people spoke about the amount of fill that would have to go in there to bring that up level. If I'm on Aviation Road right here and looking at that picture of that restaurant, that's pretty level with the existing Aviation Road now and that's, it's got to be a lot offill in there. So as you fill the front to put a building in the back is going to be up and you're going to have a huge drop. There's a big grade, I thought it was more then six percent. I'm not an engineer and I'm not a surveyor but I can tell you about buffers. I'm the first one that can tell you and I live the closest of anyone here tonight to a buffer that does not work with Wal-Mart. If you talk about lights on a building, you talk about security lights on a building, you talk about parking lot lights and you talk about the loud speakers, the intercom within the building which they operate twenty-four hours a day because they have people stocking and cleaning and unloading trucks. The tractor trailers come in usually around midnight to two in the morning and dump the pallets off and they run back and forth with the forklift on the metal trucks and that sounds great when they're unloading. In the summer time when it's warmer and you have your windows open, it's unusual to be able to go to bed at night and any time, again around eleven o'clock on to the wee hours of the morning, you can hear them announcing what the prices, what the roll back prices are and how the price changes are and directing the people to go to different sections for the, especially around the Fourth of July when they're open real late, the holiday, the Memorial Day, Labor Day. So, the neighborhood that lives where I live, June Drive, Carlton Drive we can hear what's going on over there, it's wonderful. This time of year when sound travels more in the colder weather and there are less leaves on the trees, they bring in a commercial, they bring a commercial road sweeper in all the time. It's the kind of road sweeper that a town or county would use on a road. That person comes in there any time between midnight and two or three in the morning and sweeps the parking lot so it's all clean before they open up in the morning actually. But I would think they could maybe come in at six and do it between six to eight or six to, before the traffic gets heavy in there, like six to nine. But for some reason they like to do it then. So that's another noise consideration and it's a real noise, when you've got a road sweeper going around a building, it sounds like a bunch of go-carts going around the track up on Route 9 up there, racing back and forth. Those concerns that you know, are going to happen in there. They're going to clean the parking lot, they're going to sweep it. They're going to have commercial people come in and do that sort of stuff. I just hope you take these things into consideration as mistakes that have happened in the past. They've happened just recently in the last few years. They've happened before that. Odors, we can smell odors where I live which is quite a ways from McDonalds, quite a ways from the fish restaurant next to the Pizza Hut. The fish restaurant is now closed down, you could smell the odors of fish up the street. One of my neighbors and the person just down the road from me could smell the fish odors there. I could get a whiff of them sometimes when the wind was right. We get more of Mr. B's and some of the other stuff coming up our way. So you're going to have odors, you're not going to get away from that whatever they say they're going to do. I would hesitate to believe that a hundred and thirty jobs are going to be guaranteed to the Town of Queensbury and residents. You know that's not going to happen, there's no guarantee to that. And again, they're low salary, low income starter wage jobs and usually restaurants like this keep an employee under the twenty hours or the twenty-four hour span so there's no benefits involved for that employee. There will be people, naturally in management positions, there's no guarantee they're going to come from here. Chain restaurants bring there people here in from other restaurants to get the place started and they move people in here to run their operation. Thank you for your time. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you, Dan. Anyone else care to speak? Yes, sir Jeremy. JEREMY HAMMOND-Hi gentlemen. Jeremy Hammond, Queensbury. I'm going to sort of wing it tonight but I can not write for some strange reason. I think it's because I'm so angry that we're seeing this again. I mean, how many times do we have to listen to the public scream about their problems? I mean, we're dealing with some of the most angry people in Queensbury. They don't sleep, they can barely eat. I mean, smell KFC's everyday, you know, McDonalds. These people are not happy people. I just can't see why we would be going at this again. But, oh where to start? Well, for the next few minutes, I'm going to be very sarcastic. That, that beautiful picture, it looks like a jungle and I doubt it's going to do what they say. Hey, it looks good but those are Pine trees and they're not going to do anything and it looks like an old growth forest. I mean, a forest that would have to be there a couple hundred years to do anything. You guys have got to go out there. You've got to do what I did. Stop your car in the middle of the neighborhood. Have everybody look at you funny. Turn off your motors and listen and this is what I've told you gentlemen before. Just listen. When you hear what these people hear every day. Imagine at two o'clock at night sleeping in your bed, the next thing you know, something happens, something falls, some canisters at Wal-Mart or something and you hit hour head on the banister. Imagine that. Every night and I think that's what these people are going through. You've got to stop your car, you've have to listen. Listen to what's going on. Watch people from KFC walk over to this woman's house and play with her trampoline like the last meeting, and I don't think we can all, I don't think we can forget that conversation. All right, sit there, listen and you're going to say to yourself, why are we putting these people through this? Haven't they had enough? They've got enough stuff down there. They don't need anymore. They've made, they want to make concessions. I think there was mention of some type of business plaza, offices or what not. That would be a good concession and that will bring better jobs then the Cracker Barrel can offer. People that work at Cracker Barrel are not going to be able to live in Queensbury. They won't be able to afford Queensbury. I mean, you have to be honest with yourselves, these jobs are going to be meaningless jobs, sadly. Meaningless jobs. There will not be as much tax revenue and those jobs are meaningless. We've got to bring the high tech jobs. We have to zone for those jobs. We've got to work for those jobs and Cracker Barrel is not one of them. That's about all. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thank you. Yes, sir. CHRIS VANDERZEE-Chris Vanderzee, Greenway North. Six years ago my wife and I bought our first home on Greenway North after Red Lobster was not or said, would not be there. Next September my oldest son will start school and he'll get on the bus at the corner of Greenway North and Aviation. With such an increase in traffic, I ask you, will he be safe walking the two hundred feet from my door to the bus stop? Would you want your kids to do that? It's already, traffic has already doubled on my road in the last six months due to the expansion with the bridge and the lack of the turning lane onto, from Carlton so all the Carlton traffic is now coming down, coming right through past my front yard. As I watch my son, his ball rolls down the hill and across the road and he runs out and cars screech on their brakes. I picked that neighborhood because it was quiet, there was no through traffic, no anywhere else. I also recently just fired my garbage company because they refused to come after five thirty in the morning. The noise of them backing up and the beeping and everything was not fair to me or my neighbors. Do I have the right to fire the garbage company or the people making deliveries and everything in the weird hours down at the Cracker Barrel? I don't think so, but I'd like to. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Anyone else? FRED TROELSTRA- Fred Troelstra, owner and partner, Silo and Gardentime of Queensbury. I'm a licensed engineer in New York State. I'd like to commend the people that have presented information here tonight. I'm going to make this very brief. I think that the information that we all received tonight should be very much closely evaluated and in particular by the board. I can't help but say, I also have the practical side. Mrs. Patterson's name came up, she is the home on the corner of the north bound ramp of to 87. We were the contractor for Luck Brothers who did the bridge expansion. In order to placate Mrs. Patterson, and I'll use the word placate, we put in an additional five Blue Spruces for her, five foot tall. They didn't even clear her fence. The ramp has got to be at an elevation of nearly fifteen feet. She, not in her day will ever get the benefit of those trees there and it will probably be another forty years before it ever will establish anything of a buffer. I also drive tractor trailer as a part of my work. I challenge anybody to make a right hand turn off of Greenway North up Aviation Hill and particular, a bus because as I see it right now, it will probably not have enough clearance to make that little rise that exists there. Again, I do have the credentials as a licensed engineer, unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to pull together as much information as these people have. I come to you with no notes. The basis of my speaking and you've heard me before ask you this question. Let you're common sense prevail. I've been too busy trying to stay one step in front of the competition. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, Betty. BETTY MONAHAN-Betty Monahan, 120 Sunnyside Road. I don't know if you gentlemen have your SEQRA handbook in front of you or not. I have the November 1992 issue. There's a section in it, SEQRA Local Government Development Decisions. Are there differences for SEQRA purposes between a zoning change sought by a project sponsor and one initiated by the municipality? If the zoning change is proposed by a project sponsor in conjunction with a proposal, the impacts of both the rezoning and the specific development must be considered in determining environmental impacts. So, you gentlemen have a double job in front of you. The decision to rezone is a point, and by the way, this is on page 101, 102, the decision to rezone is a point at which the types of allowable activities is made, an important point at which to prohibit the types of development or the location of projects that might significantly impact the environment. A municipality should consider the most intensive uses allowable under the proposed zoning to judge potential impacts. I just want to point out to you that the applicant talked about a fourteen foot retainage wall. Do you have an engineering plan on that wall to see if that's feasible? Or does it have to be stepped back in order to do it because that will involve how much land is used for it? Do you have the drainage or stormwater plan and has it been reviewed by the town's engineer? There's talk about the jobs and sales tax. Their figures may be right for immediate return but has the board made an attempt to see if in the long run this may be at the expense of other like businesses. What will be the net gain in the future? The applicant says that under the most intense use and other the zoning for PCl acre, seventy-four percent of that land may be disturbed. The height of a building can be fifty feet. On page 24, they make the comment, the proposed commercial zoning for the site, by code would allow development of a larger structure on the site. It also talks about the life of the facility. What's going to happen there after the life of the facility? And do we yet have staff comments on that Environmental Impact Statement or has this Environmental Impact Statement been reviewed for the town by an outside environmental concern? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes. DONNA HARRIS-Good evening, my name is Donna Harris. I'm the Burch Lane resident that gets the privilege of having a dumpster in my backyard, or seventy-five feet from my backyard. Also known as the woman with the trampoline. I, it's got to look to all of you like the same faces coming up here time after time after time and it is. The people who end up at the microphone are the ones who have the ability to stand up and talk. There's some of us in the audience, not us, I can't include myself cause here I am. There's plenty of people who won't get up and speak but that doesn't mean they feel the same way. If they felt opposite the way that the people were speaking felt, they would do something about saying they were in favor of the Cracker Barrel rather then opposing it. There's also plenty of people who don't come to the meetings anymore because they've lost faith. There's people who don't come to the meetings because they go on too late. There's people who don't come to the meetings because they have to take care of their children. And so, I'd like it to be understood that when someone like me or anybody else who has gotten up to speak, gets up to the microphone, we're not just speaking for ourselves, we're speaking for the entire neighborhood and if anybody goes against these feelings, there welcome to state it. I speak personally for everybody on Burch Lane. There's at least an elderly couple, a middle age couple, a widow next door and a family with a disabled son, two small children. At the other end of the street, there's another family that has at least two or three small children and I have a daughter. Now, all these kids go to the bus stop on Greenway North and Aviation Road and they get to a certain age and it's a quiet enough neighborhood, you should be able to trust your kids to walk to the bus stop. But they're going to get run over some day and the more you increase traffic there, not you personally but any business that goes there will increase the traffic down Old Aviation Road. And in fact if you want to do a real traffic count, stop by this Friday cause starting Friday is hell month. There's no way we're going to be able to pull out of Greenway North and make a left hand turn into the inside lane which is legally the way we're supposed to do it. There's no way we're going to be able to get to Wal-Mart. Therefore, we're going to have to park our cars up near Dan Olson's and cut through the fence. Now there's going to be the people who can't put up with waiting for the traffic on Route 9 so what they're going to do is cut down Old Aviation Road and cut through McDonalds or Kentucky Fried Chicken and they're going to come out of the plaza there. It's just, man I'm glad I'm on the net, you know, I can shop that way because I won't go to the mall. I can't cross the street safely because somebody coming out of the mall is going to hit me, they can't see my car as I come up the rise. It's just, I don't understand why this comes to the table so many times when there's so many things that don't make any sense. We're not opposed to development of that property. If Mark Levack were my Realtor, I would have fired him five years ago, easily. As a real estate agent, a former real estate agent, I'm a former real estate agent because I stunk at it and I know he's doing great down on Park Street. He has done nothing for Mr. Wood on this piece of property. Had he ever had an offer from Bames and Nobles, he should have run for it cause we would have accepted it. We have nothing against Cracker Barrel. I'm not even going to disrespect the jobs that they would bring into the area. There's a lot of people in Queensbury that need those jobs and there's people in Hudson Falls and Fort Edward that do need jobs. Although they may only be minimum wage jobs, it may help get some people off county aid. I'm for that. I'm just not for them being right there. I, you know, it's easier to understand if you go stand out in your backyard and you measure seventy-five feet from your back fence and imagine a fourteen foot retaining wall and imagine what it sounds like when they push the snow right to the edge and over. I've got enough snow in my yard, I don't want anymore. I have to listen to, everybody listens to it, we have the, the mall keeps their parking lot very, very clean and they do this by sweeping it at various hours. It would be nice if they could sink up with Wal-Mart but I have a feeling it's one guy going from one place to another place and maybe he's going to hit Cracker Barrel in the middle, I don't know. If you want some real fun, have a migraine and have the radio station be over to Warren Tire. That is a good time. It's not, well it serves it's purpose, you can send your kid to get the free hot dog. Now, yea we're angry. We're angry that development of this property, this intensive development of this property is constantly discussed. I would have no problem with Cracker Barrel being as close to my home as where Fazoli's is. Take Pearl Vision Center, put it there. I have no trouble with that. It something that suddenly strikes everybody with blindness that they all need to go down Greenway North and turn in there but I think that there won't be buses, there won't be trucks and I don't think that Pearl Vision Center's garbage would be nearly as stinky as Cracker Barrel and much as I love birds, I don't want any seagulls. They come a little too close as it is anyway with Kentucky Fried Chicken right there. There's just so much that can go wrong. My job is to test things. My job is to tell them, my God, this is going to go wrong. Don't you wish I was wrong more often? I have job security because I'm right, it's because of common sense. I have nothing against Mr. Wood. I understand that he wants to sell his piece ofland. I'd love him to sell his piece ofland. He needs to. I want Max Yurenda to get the money for the charity. I want everybody to live happily ever after. Cracker Barrel is not going to do it. Any fast food, any food oriented business placed on that property is not going to make the surrounding businesses happy at all. I can't tell you how much it scares me that the mall is going to grow and I don't understand the growth being that we can't keep stores in there in the first place. I can't understand why this piece of property is so attractive at such a high price when there so much other commercially development properties, commercial properties, zoned properties in Queensbury visible from the Northway at less then half the price. I think that we can accept Cracker Barrel in the Town of Queensbury. I don't think that that's the place. Well, you know you've heard it all before and it doesn't matter how much as been said, it always feels like there's more to be said. That's what you hear from people who are trying to defend their lives, the quality of life and defend their homes. I can't imagine another business being there. I moved into the neighborhood knowing there were restaurants there and I had to spend an afternoon in the neighborhood seeing what kind of noises, what kind of smells, all those kind of things a mother is supposed to do and I did and it wasn't that bad. You move in, you learn a lot but I haven't left because it's a neighborhood. People talk to each other. People know each other. People trust each other. People get along. This is not a normal thing necessarily in the Town of Queensbury. What you have there is truly a rarity and it would be a shame to see residents of forty or fifty years needing to leave because it's become over developed and not ever getting from their property what it could have been worth. Already the value of the house that I live in is much lower then it would be if it were on the other side of the Northway. But, I mean there's houses in June Drive that as soon as they chop down the trees to widen the road, properties drop twenty thousand dollars in value in half an hour. And I can't imagine that the values of the home on Burch Lane or Old Aviation Road are going to retain value at all. Connector Road, that's scares me. I saw one of those plans and it went right through my bedroom and I'm hoping that there will be a meeting about that before you do it. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-There will be. MS. HARRIS-I hope so. I understand the need to develop it. I understand the need to change the zoning on it but I really think that there's a need to make sure that everybody can be a peace with what's done with that piece of property and I don't think that this is it. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thank you, Donna. Anyone else? John is looking to return. How about first time round? No, no, the other John. Anyone else for the first time, please? John, I guess we can give you another couple of minutes. MR. STROUGH-It won't even take that long. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That's fine. MR. STROUGH-Just something I observed. I didn't get it into typing but it was an observation that I had. I was, in reading the Environmental Assessment Form I see that they put down that ninety-five percent of the land is less then ten percent grade. And I see on page 10 of the DEIS where they're using as a figure four hundred and twenty feet and three hundred and ninety. And then I check in the DEIS and I can see on their topo where four hundred and twenty feet is, four hundred and twenty goes right around where their parking lot is. So in other words, they're not talking about the point at which their gaining access to the property. In other words, they're not talking about coming from the, their access road which I think should be. That's four hundred and thirty-four feet, okay, where the access road meets Greenway North according to this. And then it dips down to three hundred and ninety feet. So, that run if you want to go from Greenway North to the end of the site is a forty-four foot drop and I really question, you know, that sounds like a ten percent grade to me. But, like I said, I want to get it in the record and I just made those observations. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Fine. Last call. Anyone else before John, you probably should summarize once we're finished, John, is that fair? Anyone else care to speak? Okay, John do you want to summarize it? COUNSEL LEMERY-I'd just like to point out that since the beginning of the problem with this site and the people who have come here tonight are right. They've come here every single time. They've spoken about the issues relating to the site and we sit here thinking like, we're the evil empire and the truth of the matter is that the site when it was zoned in 1988 wasn't zoned properly. It had nothing to do with the folks who live back there or what was going on in the town but the town has had a significant growth since 1988. The Aviation Road corridor is the most significant traffic area in the entire region let alone, Aviation Road in the Town of Queensbury. The problem with the site is that it's this four point four acre zoned single family residential. It's not bordered by residential zones on all sides. It's bordered on three sides by a road. The most heavily traffic road in the town. Barely two hundred feet away from the front of this site, there's an eight hundred thousand square foot expansion of the existing mall. To the left of the site, on the west is the Greenway North and on the back of it is Old Aviation Road which for reasons beyond the control of the owner of the site, was blocked at one point so that there is no longer through traffic which everyone thought at that time would be a help to the people back there. The other unfortunate thing is, is that you can't look at rezoning this site without the site plan issue because to do so would involve the segmentation which is in violation of SEQRA. SO, to the extent that you have to look at the site plan at that same time you have to look at the rezoning, is a legitimate issue and that's the reason why the developer here, or the proponent agreed that the best way to deal with this was to provide an environmental impact statement and let everybody comment on it. And a lot of these comments here tonight were legitimate and responsible but it doesn't, it doesn't belie the fact that there's this little tiny piece of land here, four acres that simply can't remain the way it is. Because to do so, I don't think there's anybody sitting back here who would say let's leave it zoned single family residential. Let's put fourteen single family houses in there because if the problems that there suggesting that they deal with where they live, they're only going to be exacerbated by new residents if you put more residents in there. So, that doesn't work. I don't think there's anybody here who would say that it does work. So, when you try to figure out what does work for the site, what makes sense and what's fair to everybody and I've always said, whether, you know and Charles Wood isn't the issue and I'm not the issue and Cracker Barrel isn't the issue, it's a site problem. And what we've always said is, what do you do with this site if you recognize that you can't put houses in there. And if you recognize now that the Town Board is looking at this Greenway connector in connection with the Aviation Road expansion and in connection with the traffic problems that have surfaced at Route 9 and Aviation Road. So, if the connector comes in, the connector goes right to the rear of this site and that to me is a much, creates a much different situation and makes it even more impossible to consider any other zoning for this site then what's proposed. The whole purpose of the buffer and the whole purpose of trying to put together a buffer was to protect what those residents have never had protected before by any other party. Not by Wal-Mart. Not by McDonalds. Not by anybody else along either Route 9, not by Hess, not by anybody else. So, it's sort of like, it's sort of a company punishment issue here that this site faces that all the problems that have been faced by those families back there have not been focused on this one site. If there's a traffic problem that exists at Greenway North and Aviation Road, it's not the fault of this site or this piece of land. It's an issue that has to be addressed on a wider basis. If somebody said to the developer, put a turning lane in there, then somebody else would say, if you put the turning lane in there, you get rid of the buffer. So, someone says, we don't think the site is useful or should be used for a restaurant because that's a high intensive use, there's not enough room so if we said, well fine then we'll reduce the buffer to fifty feet because that's the only buffer required in the town from a residential to a commercial zone. Then someone would say, no, no that's not right, we want the hundred feet buffer. So, I think that to be fair to everybody, Charles Wood, the Double H and the people who have made this application have tried to figure out a way to be fair to everybody. It's not just a, it's not just a buffer that is not real and will not exist. There are significant trees there that will remain. No one is going to come in and suggest that all that is going to go out of there. It won't happen. It just won't happen. So, what do you do with it? You can't not rezone something here because of the traffic. If the traffic has to be addressed in a way that it has to be addressed on a town wide basis because of the expansion of the mall then, or a development of this site, then you're looking at that in connection with a connector. What does the connector do. The connector further separates this site from the neighborhood and further defines this site as a commercial site. So, as far as the site plan is concerned, the DEIS has addressed the number of parking spaces. My understanding is that there are additional turning lanes and additional lanes that would be built if the Aviation Mall is expanded which would deal with some of that traffic. If someone said, take and provide a turning lane to this site, as I said before someone would come along and say, well, then you're going to get rid of some of the buffer. Now these are all issues that can and should be legitimately addressed by the developer of the site, by the town planning staff, the town planning board and others. But the fact that the zone doesn't work is a fact that there is and I don't think anybody in this room would say otherwise. The other thing is, you can't just go pick a spot zone. Let's just go pick some other zone. Let's go get the zoning book out and figure something else. That doesn't work, that's spot zoning. Not after six years of trying to figure out what to do with this site. This is not a question of Charles Wood coming up here and trying to beat everybody up every time with what's going on. This is what's been offered and I will say in defense of the owners, Mr. Supervisor that the purchase price is no where near two hundred and fifty thousand dollars an acre. I don't know where that comes from but that's not factual. So, in any event the site needs to be rezoned. The traffic issues will and should be addressed and that's a town problem. There is no proof here that anybody's quality of life is going to be diminished by a development of a two point five acre piece of land on a four point acre site where virtually one hundred feet of it is kept for a buffer. If this isn't done, there's no need for a buffer and there's no requirement of a buffer. So I don't understand why everybody want's to hoist this situation when this particular project is doing much more then has ever been done by any other project surrounding this area to try to protect it and why should it be punished in a situation like this. There are thirty thousand residents or so of the Town of Queensbury and they're not in this room. So what do people want? People want, people want the neighbors to be protected, they want the owner to have a right to develop his land in a reasonable way and there isn't anybody who owns land, whether you're sitting on this board or anybody out here who wouldn't want to be dealt with fairly if they owned a piece ofland. We've tried to be sensitive to the fact that those trees are there and they exist but at the same time, we've tried to make everybody aware of the fact that by doing something like this with the rezoning and by offering a permanent piece of land that would not be used, a covenant that would run with the land is a much greater protection then is offered right now. Right now, the way this land is zoned everybody's at risk. The town has grown. We've seen the development of Lowe's. We've seen the development of the Wal-Mart store. We've seen the development of the plazas. It's not going to stop. We're now talking about an other eight hundred thousand square feet going in here. So, this site is not, the issue of traffic and how it impacts this site is a non-event because when you try to put this site into that mix, it doesn't even compute. It doesn't even come out. There's no way to gage the traffic. So, we'll continue to try to be fair and reasonable and responsible. No one is trying to suggest that the people in the back don't have legitimate concerns but we can't keep dealing with it this way. And I'd like to, by summing up, I'd like to say that the Town of Queensbury has a Planning Board. That planning board is constituted of citizens of the Town of Queensbury who have been appointed by the Town Board to sit on the planning board and to look at the planning process in the town as it affects the town and it's residents. I want to say that three separate Town Planning Boards composed of three separate groups of people have voted overwhelmingly to rezone this site to Plaza Commercial. So this is not something that sits in a vacuum and just doesn't merit rezoning. It has been suggested by three separate planning boards including the existing planning board by, I believe it was a vote, there was only one no vote in my recollection for this planning board to rezone this site to Plaza Commercial with the understanding and knowing full well that it was proposed to be operated as a restaurant. You can't say in a zone you can pick and choose what you're going to put in there. You can look at the site and determine what's reasonable for the site but to say, okay, we think the site is too small for a Cracker Barrel and part of the reason the site is too small for a Cracker Barrel because the developer has said we'll give you all this land to protect you in the back, doesn't seem to me a fair way to deal with this site. So, with that I'll leave you. We'll respond to the rest of the comments, everybody and thank you for your attention. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thank you. Okay, with that, anyone from the board have anything more to add? Roger, I don't plan to go a second go around, I think everything that's been said has been said unless MR. BOOR - Well, I just want to correct a statement I might have said and that was the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars an acre. The listing that I have, it was one point two million, it's four point four acres so it's two hundred and forty thousand dollars an acre and I'm sorry if I mislead anybody. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Okay, thank you. Anything from the board to be added? Anything from the left? I'll close the public hearing. Thank you very much for your being with us this evening and you're attention and your input. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED 9:00 P.M. No further action taken. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY