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2000-11-14 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING NOVEMBER 14,2000 7:00 P.M. MTG. #51 QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT COUNCILMAN JAMES MARTIN COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN COUNSEL BOB HAFNER TOWN BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER CITY OF GLENS FALLS COMMON COUNCIL CITY COUNCIL PRESENT MAYOR ROBERT A. REGAN COUNCILMAN JOHN A. DIAMOND COUNCILMAN DANA L. PALMER COUNCILMAN HAROLD G. T AYLOR COUNCILPERSON TINA WEBER COUNCILMAN 1. SCOTT P AUQUETTE 1ST. WARD 2ND WARD 3RD WARD 4TH WARD 5TH WARD CITY COUNCIL MEMBER ABSENT COUNCIL PRESIDENT KAY SAUNDERS 1. 0 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE JOINT TOWN OF QUEENSBURY CITY OF GLENS FALLS DISCUSSION 2.0 DISCUSSION OF FUTURE MEETING SCHEDULE AND LOCATION COUNCILMAN STEC-I take great pleasure, I take great privilege in saying that welcoming everyone here and members of the Glens Falls Common Council and Mayor Regan, Members of the Town Board and our Town Clerk and certainly guests of both communities in the audience to hopefully our first in a series of on going dialogs and hopefully quarterly meetings between the City and the Town in an effort to improve communications and hopefully foster a spirit intermunicipal cooperation that is much talked about in our region. With that I know this is really the first time in this kind of forum that the City Government and the Town Government have met and I just wanted to suggest that what we are going to try to do. I proposed a rough agenda that hopefully that Member of the Common Council and the Mayor have it is available on the table here. We are going to conduct this as we would a Town Workshop meeting in which certainly we will not be going for any resolutions or votes, it is just a dialog kind of thing tonight and really we are just looking to establish a few goals and maybe some dates for meetings and maybe a list of topics that we want to address jointly. Certainly feel free to but in with any comments Town and City Members and if we could I would like to move into 2.0. First I feel the first thing we should probably do is get an idea on how we want to handle our meetings, perhaps set some guidelines for when we would hold a meeting, where and how we would do that, perhaps that would be appropriate. I wrote down here, I think it would make sense to alternate between Queensbury and Glens Falls locations and not necessarily even have to always hold it at a Town building we could perhaps do things like, we could perhaps do things like meet at a fire company or other locations that are accessible to the public. Again the original proposal was quarterly we may find that we may need to meet more or less frequently from that. I think we probably have plenty to talk about the January, April, July and October I picked those as the first month of each quarter. I know the Common Council typically meets on Wednesday and we meet on Mondays and I think at least from our initial attempt to set up a meeting it sounds to me like Tuesdays might be good. With that I will open it to a little bit of discussion and see if maybe we can you know start talking about how often and where we want to meet and with that I guess I will pass it over to you Bob and see if you have any comments or thoughts. MAYOR REGAN-A couple of things, I am sorry Dennis could not be here, I had proposed a meeting date of next or Tuesday the 28th but that did not work for everybody. He had asked me not to come so I certainly wanted to respect that request but on the other hand I did not, I felt that if I didn't come it would send the wrong message about how I feel about intermunicipal cooperation, so as long as we can get that issue out of the way. I am sure it will now smoothly go away and never come up again. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think that is why we were talking about maybe the 28th I know the 28th is like a soon to follow meeting here but in light of Dennis not coming and a couple of other Council Members could not make it and Ted is not here from our Board that maybe we could follow through with the 28th you know so we get them included right away too. MAYOR REGAN-The only mistake I might have made on the 28th that apparently it is the, there is a screening WMHT was doing that episode that series thing on Glens Falls and they were going to show that at the Hyde that night so. COUNCILMAN STEC-So, I guess in hindsight it is probably good that we stuck to our guns here on the 14th. I agree, I think it is unfortunate that Dennis couldn't be here and you know it is just the way that it worked out we were not aware that he was out and we felt that it was a shame that we had everybody on board. Getting seven of you all together and five of us together with our schedules I think eleven out of twelve you know, is a pretty good number and that is why I think we said, lets, again we are not looking to, you know we certainly will not solve all the issues tonight and we just felt, lets get that first one out of the way and certainly, hopefully neither community is crippled with the absence of one member. I certainly feel bad that Dennis could not make it either. He had scheduled a trip out of town and it was just unchangeable for him. MAYOR REGAN-Tuesday the 21st we have a Common Council Meeting we cannot have it on Thursday, so that brings us up to the 28th and we do have the WMHT thing going on at the Hyde. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is there a different night of the week that we could? COUNCILMAN STEC- Typically we are busy on Mondays but after that we are usually, the room is less flexible than the board is as far as meeting here. Certainly I think we should meet in Glens Falls somewhere next time. MAYOR REGAN-The 29th is ok with me I do not know how that works for anyone else? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That is good. COUNCILMAN STEC- That is fine with me. COUNCILMAN BREWER-The 29th. COUNCILMAN STEC-Hopefully, Dennis will be back from his trip and he is anxious to meet, today was not a good day for him. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is there a particular place you want to go Bob, or? MAYOR REGAN-Town Counsel Chambers? We can have it I suppose we can alternate as you suggested and we can have that at City Hall at the Council Chambers I can double check to see if, what is that. . . UNKNOWN-We could have it at the Library. MAYOR REGAN - I do not honestly know I do not know if that would be available. COUNCILMAN STEC-For a future meeting that would be a really good idea. Again we have talked about doing that ourselves, going from maybe fire house to fire house with the school and just kind of spread it round the community a little bit once and a while and this might not be a bad opportunity, in the future, maybe in January. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Let them pick it. MAYOR REGAN-Why don't we leave it for Common Council Chambers for the moment and at 7:00 o'clock on Wednesday, November 29th and is there is a problem with that or for a more appropriate location comes up we can take that. . . COUNCILMAN STEC-Excellent, super and I am sure Dennis will be thrilled that we are able to do that. Again, that may make tonight you know that much simpler that there may be a few, in my mind Bob is that we will generate some structural kind of administrative kind of things tonight and then maybe a list of what do we want to work on and then certainly we can come back two weeks from Wednesday and maybe bang one or two of them out and get started. Now, how do you all feel about the quarter idea the January, April, July kind of second Tuesday? Again I am trying to pick something that we can put on the calendar now and then that way know that it will be there and maybe COUNCILMAN BREWER-You can always adjust it or whatever or adjust other things around it. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right, and we may find you know in January. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It might be good like we just did tonight with the next meeting why don't we at the next meeting on the 29th see if we can pick out a date then. Would that all right with everyone? MAYOR REGAN - I think lots of times depending what you have on the agenda what you plan on doing it makes some sense to do it on a meeting by meeting basis. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That is what I mean, because it is kind of hard to ... COUNCILMAN BREWER-But we can try to achieve four times a year? MAYOR REGAN-Right. Every three months or so we will shoot for. 3.0 DISCUSSION AND DEVELOPMENT OF MISSION STATEMENT COUNCILMAN STEC-Well, that went well, 3.0 I kind of threw in there just because I see these mission statements everywhere I go in the rest of my life and I think there is value in it. I do not want to get rapped around the axle on the process too much. Certainly I think we should agree on a purpose, what we are trying to accomplish you know certainly other than filling a need that I think the public sees and perhaps a sound bite in the press. What kind of meaningful accomplishment or goal do we want to march in and I just want to throw those words together, you know, we kind of kicked them around but certainly open to any suggestions. Again, I do not feel that we need to spend a lot of time on it. MAYOR REGAN-Have you ever seen what happens when ten people try to work on mission statement. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well, that is why I threw one out to start with, just because, you are right, if we started. COUNCILMAN TAYLOR-I think that is good. COUNCILMAN STEC-... that was the schooling I got at Queensbury that helped me put together a good sentence. I just think the purpose of the Quarterly Joint Queensbury/Glens Falls I suppose we could have said the Glens Falls/Queensbury, Meetings shall be to improve relations and communications between the Town and the City and to seek opportunities for collaboration and cooperation that will benefit the residents of the two municipalities. Clearly, we read about relations a lot although I think on a person to person level I think they have been over blown these relation issues but certainly in the past communication of this sort between entire boards hasn't really happened. I know that there has been a lot of historical pairs of Mayors and Supervisors that had excellent relationships and Bob certainly alluded to his relationship with Dennis. Again, we are all involved in the process and I just think that sometimes you put more than just two heads together and we might. . . MAYOR REGAN-I think also we are suffering a little bit from all the things that happened between previous town board and previous common councils that perception always takes a while to catch up to reality and I think that compared, I think, when we all took office at that time the two municipalities were in a law suit that we fairly quickly settled thereafter. So, I think still out there in the business community and the public is the perception that well, they never got along and this is and then I think also what happens is any issue regardless of how big or small I think it gets magnified because of that backdrop that background far beyond what is appropriate. So, I think that is important for people to know. COUNCILMAN STEC-I think that is well said. There is a lot of truth to that an.. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I know we had one meeting already together because, even this board with the council we were trying to work out the water issue there in the autumn hours so to speak of that project and I just think it was too far gone at that point. I remember that being a very cordial meeting and we tried anyhow and that was the spirit in which these were set up. COUNCILMAN STEC-And to add to what you said Bob, and if I do say so myself but I will exclude myself. I think that in general this board the new town board or the current town board is progressive and forward thinking. I think that this Board is sincere in an effort that says, we have got to be able to hanuner out some of these issues. Maybe we will not be able to reach agreement on all of them but certainly if we do two or three things that make it better for your constituents our constituents and certainly it is well worth the time. But, all right I guess I am hearing a consensus that will kind of call that our mission statement. It does not obligate anyone we are here to try and figure out ways to maybe work smarter not harder. I 4.0DISCUSSION OF QUARTERLY MEETINGS' SCOPE COUNCILMAN STEC-Discussion of quarterly meeting scope, I threw on there, do we want to, how do we want to conduct these meetings. Do we want in the future to include public input or do we want to run them like we run our workshops where basically we just kind of chat like this? Do we want to have, do we want to chair these meetings, how do we want to chair these meetings. Do we want when on your turf one of your people chair it when we are on ours, do we want co-chairs or no chairs, or do we not worry about it? MAYOR REGAN - I would suggest just for sake of simplicity if we are going to alternate municipalities in terms of location then have Dennis chair the ones in Queensbury and I will chair the ones in Glens Falls, just as it would be regular council meeting. I think public participation is fine but you know there is an opportunity for that at your town board meetings there an opportunity for that at the city council meetings, I think if you are going to cut to the chase and get something done we might just want to focus on asdiscussion among our ourselves, of course that is open, of course it would be open to the public but if you get into, you can get into a lot of stuff and it depends on how productive you want to be in a meeting. You guys may have different feelings about that. COUNCILMAN BREWER-My thought on that was Bob, that maybe tonight or in the first couple of meetings we might ask for participation, maybe that someone in the audience might have an idea that might foster some positive things that we could do. I have no idea what could be brought up, but if some topics were brought up from the public, get everybody involved at least or the first couple of meetings until we establish exactly what we are at the meeting for. I do not know if anybody agrees with that or not? COUNCILMAN T A YLOR-I kind of agree with that to a degree. Why couldn't we have a discussion of an issue and when we were though open it up for ten minutes ... COUNCILMAN STEC-Absolutely, that is a good idea. COUNCILMAN BREWER-There are a lot of smart people in both of our communities and as people on the outside looking in might see that we are all doing something wrong and we might all think we are doing it right. If we take a step back in my mind I think that is very helpful. But, that is just a thought. COUNCILMAN STEC-Again, I think these meetings should hopefully be cordial and casual, really it is a brain storming session as I foresee it or envision it. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, we can leave that open until we decide you know exactly what topic we are going to try and work on, I suppose. COUNCILMAN STEC-I would suggest and clearly we are not being the first meeting tonight we have not gotten to this stage yet but for future meetings perhaps tonight we will generate a list that we can certainly edit as we go of issues and topics that we want to explore. Perhaps at the close we will send off certain members of the Common Council and the Town Board to work on certain portions and pursue certain ideas and come back, or partners, and you know run down a few issues. I have got fore instance tonight I know that I kind of all ready mention that maybe we would talk a little bit on the Memorial Day Parade idea that got kicked around a while back and maybe looking at consolidating that and certainly maybe it would be appropriate for City Members to approach the organizers of the City Parade solicit some of their input their concerns and likewise for the Town Board and then at a future date meet back. Maybe invite them to come and then hopefully hammer out any problems that are out there. I just envision this as pretty open, pretty casual I think the important thing is to just meet and communicate, let everything else take care of itself. COUNCILMAN T AYLOR-Are you going to have the agenda prepared by the person hosting the meeting or? COUNCILMAN STEC-I would think that makes sense, that makes some sense, I think we should basically, I think we should leave this meeting with an idea of what the agenda of the next meeting. Tonight maybe we will make a list and then we will say lets we want to talk about these two things. Then we come in, who ever is chairing the meeting sure they put together an agenda maybe something comes up between meetings and they add to it but we should leave here knowing that the two topics for the next meeting will be, Water Shed and Joint Trash day or whatever. Transfer station drop off you know free tire day or whatever kind of things that we generate from the meetings. I think the important thing is to just try and see what kind of ideas we can generate as a body of twelve. 4.2 FUTURE PARTICIPATION OF WARREN COUNTY SUPERVISORS COUNCILMAN STEC-I know that was suggested I know that a couple of Supervisors are here one from Queensbury I see and one from Glens Falls anyway and maybe a couple more I do not recognize. COUNCILMAN BREWER-The City is doing that now, didn't you guys have a meeting with the County Supervisors? MAYOR REGAN -Yes. The last one happened to be post phoned at the request of the Supervisors for a couple of different reasons, they are going to get back to us as to a rain date on that. Yea, that process has begun. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think we need specific topics to do that Dan. COUNCILMAN STEC-I agree, that would be my suggestion as well that is there is a certain topic that comes up that clearly warrants county participation then certainly they would be invited and welcome to participate. But, I think a lot of the stuff that we have is probably just business between the two councils. Jim do you have any thoughts on that, or Tina? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No, I think that is fine, I think it is important to have the County Supervisors here because you are going to talk about intermunicipal cooperation you know that is a regional agency that we are all joined to. We have each community has representation there and it is only appropriate that we have those people here as well, at least they should be invited I think. COUNCILMAN STEC-Absolutely. Which again brings us to the meat and potatoes of the subject. 4. 3 AGENDA ITEMS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS COUNCILMAN STEC- Tim and I and Jim we have come up with a short list of issues that we think are out there some big and some small, some more controversial than others. Maybe perhaps we spend some time just kicking around and maybe not necessarily trying to solve them but coming up with a list of five, ten, fifteen issues where we think there might be an opportunity here for us to save our collective taxpayers a little money or each other a little head ache or provide a better service that we could not do on our own. I just threw a list here and if there are any questions on any of these, certainly you know we could talk about them, we do not want to push anyone to try and solve anything right away but. I already kicked around the Memorial Day Parade idea. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Does anybody have any thoughts on that the Memorial Day Parade? COUNCILMAN STEC-I think we have had some informal discussions but I haven't. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-I guess my suggestion would be to go to the organizers of the Glens Falls Parade and get their input as to what do they see as the positives or negatives and also go to the organizers of your parade and what do they see as positives or negatives about combining or alternating. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Didn't it used to be a joint parade years ago? Somebody told me once that it used to be a unified parade. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I do not recall that.... was there John. COUNCILMAN DIAMOND-Back in the 50's, COUNCILMAN STEC-I mean are you all interested? Does that make sense? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We were talking at the end of our parade, it seems like it is, it could be so much more than it is. It really could be an event filled day in addition to recognizing you know the service to the veterans and things like that, that goes on at the culmination you know there could be maybe some events planned and you know some food served and things like that and really make it and expand what happens there. Rather than just, really all our parade is, is the emergency services come down Quaker road and everyone gathers at the cemetery and that is it. It seems like I always get the sense that people were wanting more. COUNCILMAN BREWER-And the other thing is that came to my mind Jim was we have our parade at what time at night COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Ours is at six at night. COUNCILMAN BREWER-And you have your parade at ten in the morning it just seems like a good idea that I mean, maybe it will work and maybe it won't work. I know that I have got two calls from people that helped organize or want to help organize this and create some kind of a committee to make it a grand thing. I do not see anything but positives coming out of it, I really don't. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I was thinking if it was a question ofl know that parades do end at the respective markers the memorials we could alternate every year or something like that. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Even if you ended up in Crandall Park Jim, I mean that is a big place they have the balloon festival there, it does not have to be on anybody's ground. COUNCILMAN STEC-I do not have my heart set on a route but as Scott points out you know I do not think it is right for us to try to speak for .. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-There might be logistical issues that we are not even aware of that need to be coordinated by the people who know about the parade. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would certainly be willing to try to find out who is in charge of our parade and ask them what they thought of it. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I would suspect that now is the time. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right if we are going to shoot for next year as maybe as goal. Again it is doable, if it can't be done it can't be done. Certainly if somebody from Glens Falls wants to talk to somebody from their parade then the two compare notes and maybe get together all four groups Common Council, Town Board Member you know maybe not all of us but the representative from Glens Falls and Queensbury one from each parade and maybe work out and then put it together. I just think if we pooled out resources we might be able to come up with a smoother flowing maybe a little be grander a little bit better parade altogether, I am not stuck on and I do think anyone here is stuck on... COUNCILMAN MARTIN-The other practical effect of this is, it would bring the citizens of the two communities physically together in the same area, you know mingle after words hopefully and we always hear about there is not this sense of community or cooperation events like this would bring people together. COUNCILMAN STEC-We could coordinate the two ceremonies we kick off the beginning of the parade with a ceremony at one memorial and finish the parade at the other or not or have the memorial separate from the parade at a separate time, which I think would probably be feasible with the cemetery ceremony that they have that I do not think you necessarily have to tie the parade to that. Although I think it maybe draws a little bit more people there, but if we kicked off at Crandall Park with one ceremony at the monument march over somewhere maybe change the route maybe just alternate routes each year or there is probably some things that you know cannot be done. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Lets move on, I will talk to our people I do not know maybe Bob, you could find out if there is any legalities that I have no idea if there is or isn't, if you wouldn't mind doing that. TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-No problem. COUNCILMAN STEC-Certainly I do not think we want to necessarily talk on all the rest of these but we threw down a few, clearly we have a Main Street and Corinth Road project coming up and I am sure that Jim has been hawkish on making sure that the town is pursuing its interest to have its input in its design. I am sure the City would probably welcome an opportunity to throw its two cents in as it is you know it is in our Town but it certainly a main entrance to your City. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Just by way of example the city had ajust a small item that you have a set light fixture that you have selected for your street scape and we were thinking like for example this coming in right at the Northway Interchange into the City maybe we ought to suggest that the light fixture be uniform all the way through so there is a seamless appearance to the route all the way. In so that people coming to an event at the Civil Center or whatever they are not necessarily they are in the Glens Falls Queensbury area they are not just in Queensbury, then in Glens Falls there is all this division of appearance and things like that. We should talk about the street scape having a uniform and consistent character to it, so you are not really crossing from the Town into the City per se. The light fixture I remember we talked about it as a Board as one example a small example of how if we do get together on that we can make sure we do have that kind of appearance all the way through the corridor. COUNCILMAN BREWER-We would make the suggestion to the County, correct. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well yes and to the State, the State is funding a lot of it. COUNCILMAN STEC-But I think you know that as Jim points out we are going to go through major design change of this corridor and it only makes sense that if possible to dove tail it the transition between the Town and the City so that they kind of looks like it flows. Which would benefit both communities. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-They are already behind schedule we were supposed to have a public meeting on that, I went to the meeting that they had at the County they were supposed to have a public meeting on that in October, I never saw anything for getting public input. COUNCILPERSON WEBER-Has it changed to three or five lanes. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-The last I knew it was three lanes is what they are looking at but the problem is that even at three lanes the right of way especially by the oh what is the intersection there, what street is it that crosses, is it Richardson? Agreed -Richardson COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It is very, very narrow it gets down to like forty nine feet wide or something like that it is very even for three lanes it is tight. Then if you want any kind of amenities at the side you know like a side walk or a planting strip or any benches or anything like that there is just no room. COUNCILMAN BREWER-There is some what of a sidewalk on the north side isn't there? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-There is sidewalk on one side of it, so there is, to me I thought the discussion about three and five lanes was really not the issue it is what the appearance of the corridor looks like at least that is what I heard from a lot of people that I talked to. What is it going to look like. You know you talk about the south Broadway entrance into the City of Saratoga was just done that is essentially a three lane route going through there but with a planted median I have a lot of complements about that. ..very wide to accommodate everything they have there is very wide. COUNCILMAN BROWER-I do not know, if you don't have enough room I mean what do you do? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-But it would be a very, it would carry a lot of weight with the County and the State if we were of one voice. That would be a very forceful voice at the table. If we were unified in that. COUNCILMAN BROWER-Do we have any idea what their plans look like? Chris have you heard anything? EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR CHRIS ROUND-There is nothing that has been completed yet. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I am sure we will both be duly notified, but... COUNCILMAN BREWER-Probably blacktop is what they are planning is probably it. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That is what would be nice at one of these meetings if we do get those plans and we can sit right here with the plans in front of us and say you know, what do you think looks best and works best for both of us. COUNCILMAN STEC-Another one that I threw out there, water shed property issues and maybe some people are scratching their heads on that but clearly well most people know the City is the largest land owner in the Town of Queensbury and what goes with that territory is that there is a few concerns. On the watershed property clearly you have been bombarded with strong desires, which supported by our Board for snowmobile access continued snowmobile access and with understandable reservations, you were able to press forward with that. But, you know there are some safety concerns there. There are some littering concerns. I think there is some recreational desire there I know that in the past with your previous water arrangement you had a stronger need to protect it than perhaps you might now with your current water situation. But there certainly also a desire for conservation I do not think anyone is looking for go cart tracks up on West Mountain. But, passive recreation kind of ideas a defacto living and growing up there at the base of the entrance to a large amount of acres on West Mountain that the City owns it is being used you know, it was correctly pointed out to you that it is being used as a recreational area. I myself, it is easy for me to say because I am not a City Resident so it is not my property but I myself you know would say it is a recreational opportunity it is in fact used that way you do have some issues that come with that from people that aren't you know they are trespassing in a more negligent fashion if you will then maybe what most people would hope, would be the dog walker the cross country skier, but then with that comes liability. So, I thought that, but clearly the Town Residents living around it are using it, as I am sure some of your residents are and I just think that if there is a dialog that maybe you know can happen in the future on some of these water shed issues where we can and maybe allow for some of this recreation like snowmobile issues while making sure that the public and the snowmobilers enthusiast are safe and that certainly the land does not trashed and your water doesn't get contaminated and what not. There are some concerns there but I think they are achievable and I think rather than just you know, saying there is no trespassing you know acceptance that this is how it is being used and maybe just try to control or mitigate some of the things going on up there. So, I just thought I would throw that out there, again it is an issue that I am very familiar with having grown up there. I know where a lot of the problems are but at the same time I think it is worth while pursing maybe making it a little bit better. Clearly we have water and sewer issues I do not think that this necessarily the form to get into those but I wanted to list them. I think it would be negligent to not at least acknowledge that you know, we do have a sewer issue to work out between the City and the Town. Looks like water is probably, you know, water under the bridge now, but certainly there are some things that we can do there that will benefit both communities. I threw out the library because as it did not pass clearly if you believe what you read in the paper, a lot of people that voted no still recognize and feel that something has to be done with the current library. That some sort of improvement needs to be made and I think that now that the current design is off the table I do expect that there will be renewed pressure to explore other options that don't involve strictly an expansion in the City in the current location. So, I think we should just recognize that and I do not know if we can solve those issues that might be an issue that is entirely up to the Library Board of Trustees but I think again, as Jim pointed out with the Main Street and Corinth Road project clearly these two bodies can come together with an idea that we endorse I think certainly the library will listen. I think that they are looking for options and I just thought that these are good group of people to generate some options and some alternatives. I do not have one in mind or an agenda in mind what needs to be done there I had conversations, there are other buildings and certainly a scaled down plan might be an approach, or shuffling the deck. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I like to get back to this economic development mentioned here I think the library maybe relates to that in some way. I think here again, that economic development issue in my mind represents a great potential for both communities in that we are a like view. From my standpoint as an elected official here in the Town of Queensbury I am tired of growth. I am just tired of it, there is traffic, it is not that I am against it but we certainly have seen our share of it and I think, when I talk to people in the community they are tired of it too. But, then you go into the City and you see talk of vacant buildings or businesses leaving down town and there is a lot of opportunities there to in fill buildings and the trendy term these days is so called Smart Growth. Well you know then why can't we work together and pro actively steer businesses and steer growth into the City. I am not saying you know to take things away from the Town we are going to have our opportunities to be sure because there is just that profile of growth that we are going to continue to meet. Large lot development and things like that. You know there is also that aspect of growth that you know I think with a little pro active effort could certainly be steered into the City and would take some of the pressure off of our traffic situations and so on and so forth. Maybe take a little pressure off of the City tax base and things like that. Rather than us just sitting here and talking and preaching to the choir so to speak as elected officials bantering back and forth, oh yea that is a really good thing we ought to do that, you know, lets get some people in here lets get some commercial realtors in here and say you know this is what we want. As a community this is what we want you to have in the back of your mind when you talk to the, because I worked in Chris's office and I, there is no secret what I do for a living, by the time a developer makes his choice where he is going to go the elected official is almost the last one to hear about it. We have got to start preaching to that aspect of the business community and say this is what we want to do as an area and this is how we want to steer things. MAYOR REGAN - I think the single most valuable thing we can do as a joint body is plan the future of the region. Because what I think what has happen in this area is you just sort of had pell mell growth without any community consensus around what the area is going to look like. No, certainly what I pick up from people in Queensbury is they moved out there because they liked the semi rural atmosphere. They like to be by the woods and the fields and all those things and that works for a while until a new development goes up in their back yard and then it is not as nice of a place or what they thought they were buying into. I do not think that some of the development that is taken place in the suburban parts of the County has been what the people really would like if they could have started from scratch and said design your own community what would you like it to look at. What would you like it to look like. I do not think they would design you know Quaker Road or Route 9 the way it actually looks but that is just my opinion. I think communities that have been very very successful and I use Portland Oregon as an example, really got into the whole Smart Growth process and they drew what they call an urban boundary, an urban growth boundary around the area. What that did was force the economic activity back into the central core of the City so what you had was the people who were living in the suburbs were happier because their open space was no longer threatened by ever more development. People in the City were happier because the investment was forced back into the City because there was no where else to go. You saw a lot more money flowing into houses being rehabbed, buildings being rehabbed, because that was the only space left. I think that is a good model for Glens Falls and Queensbury to follow I think it would lead to vastly better place, a joint community in the end. I feel very strongly about that, I would argue that these other issues are good and could be worked out but, if we are going to be cutting edge and really make this community what it can, the best that it can be twenty years from now, I would like to get started on that joint planning, the Smart Growth aspect right away. So who all wants to do that? That is where I would vote to put our efforts, but I am just speaking for myself. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We do have a lot of capabilities at our disposal, we have respective economic development people we have a joint County Agency we have our respective departments in each of our municipalities so we do have capacity in there built in to do these types of things. Things can get done during the day so to speak and we could invite like I said you know commercial realtors to these joint meetings and so on and speak with a unified voice. If that is the unified voice this is what we would like to see. MAYOR REGAN-I think you would need to get the County involved I am guessing you would probably need to get County certain WRADC involved because I think there's a little bit of an emphasis there on green field development and maybe sort of an assumption that the best or the only economic development that is really possible is large green field sites. Where as I think we need to look at some other communities that have resurrected their inner cities for job producing possibilities in economic development. Maybe change that mentality a little bit, I know a lot of projects are already underway and so on and so forth and that is fine. But, it is something that progressive communities have really taken a look at. You can't just keep, you shouldn't just keep up gobbling more and more land. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well, it is not like we as communities are sitting here doing this but our observation, my observation is and it is nothing unique to the us and I am talking about Queensbury is we have been reactive. We are reacting, someone else is dictating the pace of the growth and the look and the character of our community and that is in the private sector. We have our zoning laws and things like that to some extent you know prepare us for that or regulate it but there is a lot more innovative forward thinking things that can be done so that we take direction of what we want our communities to look like. We as elected officials of the, the representatives so called of that wider body you know are leading that charge. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would give a prime example of that Jim, is we have a master plan right now that depicts what we want the Exit 18 Corridor to look like and as we sit here tonight there is developers planning that corridor on how they want it to look like. I am very serious about they are trying to buy land and I do not put that against them but they are trying to buy land and put a plan together and present it to us and say look at the benefits you are going to have. We are going to solve traffic problems and please, John, I am not against what they are trying to do if you are printing this, but I think they should, I think they are going about it in somewhat of a reasonable way. They are trying to get everything in line and then come to us and explain to us. But, to me maybe it is not such bad thing if we say, this is what we want not what you want. MAYOR REGAN-I think COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And go beyond that though, go out and get it, aggressively, pro actively, pursue it. Not wait for it to come to us but go out and get it. Target it and go out and get it. MAYOR REGAN-I think you will find as you go down this road when you look at what other communities have done particularly in places like Vermont or Cape Code or something like that you, they have beautiful looking Stewart's, McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts and that type of thing that a lot of times developers will say we cannot do that it would cost too much or it is not our policy or something well nonsense because in other communities require those guidelines all the time and they get away with it. I do not happen to like the looks of the Eckerd Drug Store that went up on Ridge Street and wishes we had had more stringent guidelines before that went it. But, unless you do your guidelines ahead of time you cannot blame the developers because they put a lot of time and money into their own plans and you cannot change that half way through and that is something that we are just as much at fault as you guys are in terms of I do not think being strong enough. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Because we see that big tax dollar and we say oh that is going to help us out tremendously. MAYOR REGAN-But you can get the tax dollar any ways I think even with the guidelines. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I am not, we, I think to some extent each community needs growth at some level, all be it managed or whatever, but I do believe that there is that market out there that exists for that can provide jobs that would make use of our existing buildings stock, and I say ours and I mean that, collectively. We do not need to be cutting down more trees tilling up more ground building new buildings when we have perfectly good buildings sitting there in most cases under utilized if not vacant. We do not necessarily need to have three hundred thousand square feet of office space under one roof it can be, there are opportunities out there for two, three thousand, five thousand square foot end users and we just got to go get them. We can not wait for them to just drop in our lap because that is a very competitive market out there. MAYOR REGAN-I think, I got some information from I cannot remember the organization whether it is the New York State Conference of Mayors or the New York State Planning Conference or something but it had, the remarks and the speeches and the minutes of everything that everybody said on a conference on Smart Growth. I have it somewhere on my desk, COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well that is re-assuring. MAYOR REGAN-I can find it. But it is very good and I think if anyone were to read that you would come away with a sense of what you ought to be looking at and what needs to done and better than I an articulate it here tonight. I will try to get copies of that order about a dozen copies of that to get around to anybody who is interested to read that. I thought it was a real interesting statistic the Mayor of Rochester pointed out, he said that in up State of New York the population had increased by one four percent but the land use had increased by sixty percent. So, you are just getting this tremendous sprawl that I thought was a statistic that made you really stop and think. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think if we can, and that is a very difficult issue to spur on the economy of an area especially between two municipalities and actually create jobs because there are eleven thousand communities out in the country that are trying to do the exact same thing you know, create new jobs, quality jobs, expand their tax base. If we can get that tackled and at least get that underway, a lot of the other things like sewer and things like that are going to become a much more easy thing to deal because there is not that constant pressure there on the revenue side and the cost side. MAYOR REGAN-I think in today's day and age where people have so many more choices on where they live, years ago that wasn't the case but now I think the physical attractiveness of an area, how a place looks has a much better bearing on where people locate and where CEO's want to move their companies to and so on and so forth. I think in terms of Smart Growth how the City and the Town ends up physically looking down the road and how we want to design that and think of how that is going to look is going to be important. It is going to very much help bring those jobs, in. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That was my point about the corridor. COUNCILMAN BREWER-So, are we suggesting that we get that article that you talked about? MAYOR REGAN-I will get those. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Get that together and maybe at the next meeting we can talk about how we can achieve some of these goals. I would certainly invite Chris. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I have a planner who works in my office who came to us from Oregon, from the City of Portland, he used to work in the City of Portland Planning Office. COUNCILMAN BREWER-That is where the seed was planted. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I had access to a lot of those codes and those urban growth boundary language and how that was set up. COUNCILMAN STEC-Grab as much as you can, grab him. COUNCILMAN MARTIN- Money magazine just named that the number one City in the nation and it is by no coincidence that happened, so I can get that. COUNCILMAN STEC-So, Glens Falls will oust Portland next year, is that what we are saying? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well, the Greater Glens Falls, Queensbury Region. COUNCILMAN STEC-..strive for, big plans. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I talked to the editor once, I talked to the woman who wrote the Money Magazine Article one time, I called up Time Magazine and to my surprise I actually got her on the phone, I got right through, I could not believe it. I talked to the person who wrote the article and she said that a lot of that stuff is you know, it is really not representative it is a very cursory superficial you know, analysis they make. A lot of it is made, and she said we really do not get into the communities that much and she acknowledged that they really do not have a through understanding of the quality of life so to speak in all the communities that they look at. A lot of it is statistical and things like that. So, but none the less it is a good guide and I do not think it is any you know, coincidence that Portland got that designation this year. MAYOR REGAN-It is interesting about the money rankings that, always amused me was that you know they rank certain things, how many hospitals, how many doctors how much access to theaters how many colleges and universities in the area, it is almost by definition impossible for a community with a combines population of forty thousand to compete with a metropolitan area of several million. You are just not going to have, if you go strictly by those statistics you are not going to have that. So, it doesn't really reflect I do not think accurately, I think for the size of this community we have an amazing number of those amenities but. They did not ask me for a quote in that magazine. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-So, are we saying as a manageable list of items the parade issue as a direct short term thing and then maybe this economic development initiative if you want to call it that as a longer term and. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I am certainly willing to work on the parade. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We are talking about sewer on an ongoing basis and I think that is going to help in a more direct thing between Dennis and the Mayor. COUNCILMAN STEC-And hopefully we will have a resolution before our January meeting, right? Right Bob? MAYOR REGAN-Be reasonable and I am sure that will happen. COUNCILMAN STEC-It depends of what the definition of reasonable is. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE-Just a quick question about the Corinth Road corridor, do you guys currently have sewer on that road at all? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No that is one of the things is. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-Is part of that rip up are you guys thinking about putting in sewer? COUNCILMAN STEC-We actually would like to bury power. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We actually want to get on the same contract, the same contract that does the road and have them install the sewer pipe hopefully even out to the industrial park. COUNCILMAN STEC-Bury power. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-Ideally would you be wanting to hook up to the City line at the City border? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-At the old Den Wilhelm right there. COUNCILMAN STEC- To a sewer provider of our choice. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It has been said that it can go gravity just about from the Northway to the City but just west of the Northway then you have to pump, but I think there is enough.. COUNCILMAN BREWER-But I think if we put the line in Jim, the pump comes after the development. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Right. COUNCILMAN BREWER-You size the pipe for what you need, for the potential development in that park. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I guess the timing on that Chris is what, 2003 for that road development. EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROUND-Yes. COUNCILMAN BREWER-That is on one of our priority list too. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-As I look at it to answer your question from my stand point Scott, we have the Corinth Road corridor, we got Bay Road which is now the Baybridge thing is as you know with the recently, that I think is going to happen. We have the Queensbury Industrial park out, I always call it County Line Road out that way, we have got Route 9 because the Great Escape has a need today even if they do not have their expansion that they are talking about, they need to be sewer none the less and then all the businesses in between. So, we have got four or five corridors there that need rather immediate attention. COUNCILMAN STEC-Just think of those economies that scale all that money coming in at sixty five cents a gallon buy in a lot of free money. But any ways, we do not want to talk about that, are there any other agenda items that maybe you have got in mind that maybe we are not aware of that you would say, well we certainly. MAYOR REGAN-I have done all the talking... COUNCILMAN STEC-I am thinking about simple things like can we do a free tire day or ... COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-I have talked to you guys about that once before and I think that is one thing that we should be able to do not just for Glens Falls and not just for Queensbury but if worked together we could offer a free trash day, not just tires but a free trash day and I really think, yes it has been done in the City not very well, but it has been done in the City and I think with a little coordination a little cooperation between both the City and the Town we can do it well for both our areas and clean up our Town and clean up our City. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And that is a real service people really would utilize that. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE- That is something that is immediate and people can grab a hold of and... COUNCILMAN BREWER-Just so you know we are having a Hazardous Waste Day in the Town of Queensbury in May, I do not know what kind of an influx we can take, we are going to have it and .. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE-Like air conditioner stuff like that. COUNCILMAN STEC-Paint, household cleaners. COUNCILMAN BREWER-We do that at the landfill now with the refrigerators and air conditioners with the free on, they have a program to do that now, but if you got ten gallons of paint down in your cellar that you have been keeping there. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Paint is going to be free isn't it Tim? It is going to be free isn't it? COUNCILMAN STEC-We have the cost of it. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We got a grant for part of it to subsidize it and then we the Town kicked in COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-The Hazardous Material is used specifically targeting paint? COUNCILMAN STEC-It is paint, pesticides stuff you would keep under your sink and your garage kind of stuff. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You forgot about it or it has been there for a while. COUNCILMAN TAYLOR-You said you were opening that up to Glens Falls? COUNCILMAN BREWER-Why not do it as a community if we can plan, George is on the Committee, correct for the hazardous waste. MR. GEORGE STEC-Household hazardous waste, COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is it something that we can include the City with? MR. STEC-Originally we thought we would go on our own the first year to see how it is going to go, we have no idea how much material we are going to get. We got a rough figure from based on ten years ago but it is going to be out here on Town property, we are being cautious we do not want to over extend our selves this first year but it is something definitely that can be expanded, we just do not know this is the first year. COUNCILMAN STEC-I guess Clifton Park did a, we are following I think we are using the same contractor that they used but they have got a little bit more experience in this than the Town does, I guess it was ten years ago that the town last had one. COUNCILMAN BREWER-We can certainly at minimum see how it goes in May COUNCILMAN STEC-Include you the following time you do it. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Maybe we could do something in the fall. How long does it take to plan to do it? COUNCILMAN STEC-I do not think it takes that long to do it. MR. STEC-It takes at least sixty days notice, you have to go through the permitting process with DEC. COUNCILMAN BREWER-So if we do it in May why couldn't we do it in October? COUNCILMAN STEC-It is reimbursable by the State there is State grant for fifty percent of the .. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Up to fifty percent is reimbursable by the State. COUNCILMAN STEC-So, certainly that would be, that's, we have talked about a twenty five thousand dollar COUNCILMAN BREWER-Cost up front. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right, COUNCILMAN BREWER-Then we get half of that back. COUNCILMAN STEC-No, we asked that Henry said it is our cost the whole cost, the twenty-five that is after we get the halfback remember? It is whatever the cost is. COUNCILMAN T A YLOR- The State programs might offer things to Towns that they do not offer to City also. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well, lets see what we can work out though even still. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well, that is just it, you never know. If we are sponsoring it and you know the State also has all kinds of documentation encouraging us to get along and proceed with intermunicipal cooperation stuff, if that is the case we may be able to pull you on board. On the trash subject and I did not write this down but, Luzerne Road the old City dump, is there a time line on when that is going to get capped? Do you all know where that stands? MAYOR REGAN-It was capped twenty-five years ago according to the regulations of the State but they apparently want to new cap. When they gave us the grant for the development of Veterans Field I guess they noticed it at that time and decided to let us know that there is a four million dollar project out there so I do not know, I am not, we are moving along on that, that ..going to have to bond for and pay for. COUNCILPERSON WEBER-We are still waiting for the drilling, they were drilling last week still on the run off, the test drilling.. MAYOR REGAN-The test wells. Sure glad we got that fifty thousand for Veterans Field. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What a return on that investment. COUNCILMAN STEC-One other thing I did not really throw out I kind of threw out when we talked a little bit on the water-shed property but other recreational opportunities for both residences.. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I thought I remember when now you are going to a filtration plant does some of the restrictions on that water shed property come off as being so restrictive? MAYOR REGAN -Yea, it is not as restrictive as it was, yes. You can allow for passive recreation opportunities and so forth that you could not before that is correct. COUNCILMAN STEC-I recall Steve Borgos and Frank O'Keefe they were working on some sort of recreational plan for a portion of that water shed property and again that is a ten year old thing there is probably an inch of dust on it. But, other areas, we have several parks in the town and I know you are looking at a new pool down there in east field there maybe a way to open up some of the recreation programs between the two communities and which will allow one community to maybe focus on the Town has all kinds of baseball fields but we do not have enough of this oh the City has got one of those kind of thing. Certainly you know your rec. dept. our rec. dept. would need to be involved in that. I just say if the two boards sent the message to our two-rec. organizations we would like to pursue this, we support this maybe some of that would happen. I do not mean to give the public or anyone the impression that we haven't done a lot together. Certainly we have cooperated in the past on issues like animal control and solid waste, transfer station, traffic signal maintenance. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Assessment. COUNCILMAN STEC-Assessment is the big, probably the biggest one that comes to mind although it was the last one to come to my mind, but the joint assessor is a big, that was a big victory for both communities. I think we definitely have a track record of being able to do projects big and small in the past together and some of these things we talked about tonight are even bigger yet, if one of them comes through, that is a home run for both communities. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-I think with the right kind of planning and coordination just about anything is possible and I really think we ought to talk about that trash thing some more. COUNCILMAN STEC-I think we ought to talk about sewer system, but not tonight. COUNCILMAN BREWER- We did talk about it, the cost it comes right down to cost. How much does it cost. Because we have to pay to get it to the transfer station to the burn plant we have no idea how much of influx of, we can only guess. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-We can see in one of the things I said to Dennis we can control it by giving, by limiting it, by the number of property owners in the City or in Queensbury saying each property owner gets one little coupon and they get to take a pickup truck load of junk, what ever it is, metal or what ever. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Think about that though Scott. Just think about forty thousand people each having one pickup truck load. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE- That is not to say that everybody is going to use it. COUNCILMAN BREWER-No, I know that. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-You have got what.. COUNCILMAN BREWER-But you are going to have COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE-Forty percent that are retire folks that are living there who aren't going ..generate it then you got the other people that will definitely generate it. Then if you limit the time COUNCILMAN BREWER-I am not saying you shouldn't do it. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE- Y ou limit the time that you can redeem these claims like within a thirty- day period. I am just saying, the way you control it so it doesn't become burdensome. COUNCILMAN STEC-Henry is not here tonight but, we have talked about this as a board briefly before but I remember, Henry pointed out that we are operating a deficit in our solid waste department so COUNCILMAN BREWER-This year. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right recently, we are eating out of a fund balance that is almost gone,..it will be gone we are almost in deficit and I know there was language in the past about sharing profit sharing loss and what not and it fell by the wayside but we are about to break even so I guess there is no harm done. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well the contract is there but it just was never... COUNCILMAN STEC-But it makes you all feel better like I said it looks like it will be an even wash that we are at the breaking point now so any of the money we could have been paying you over the last decade and plus any that you would have had to make up as we run into more short falls, I guess we are about to break even. But, certainly this is all on the table I mean. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-Ijust see that as something real immediate that we could give the Town and City taxpayers even on a limited basis. COUNCILMAN STEC-Sounds like you are on a mission Scott. COUNCILMAN BREWER-If you want to work on it I would be happy to work on it with you and come back to both boards and present something. COUNCILMAN STEC-And he is looking for a volunteer for who is going to talk to the Glens Falls Parade people. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I will talk to Jimmy Clark. ... .Bob is going to do that, I wrote that down., COUNCILMAN STEC-You and Scott are on the parade. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE-And the trash after the parade. MAYOR REGAN-If you do, do another trash thing though I think that the trash pickup if you go house to house to pick up trash both communities ought to do it the same, because I think what happened back in 1994 was that we had a tremendous amount of trash come in from out of town and there was no way to track that. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE- Why litter the streets when you try to clean them up. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-On Balloon Fest. Weekend too. COUNCILPERSON WEBER-I got a nice chair. COUNCILMAN STEC-Can you all think of anything else though that we might want to add, I think we have got plenty but is there anything else? Smart Growth, I hear you Bob, Sewer do you hear me Bob? COUNCILMAN TAYLOR-I am just waiting for you guys to run down here so I can get a word in. ..One of the things that has always bothered me is that there might be a project going on in the Town like the big box food store down on Bay Street or Bay Road, the City really has no way to make any kind of a comment on it and it has a tremendous impact on the City both from traffic and area of the street in that neighborhood tend to change and maybe Chris can help me here I do not know. Is there anyway that we could actually combine or have our Planning Boards work together? COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think we could similarly do that like we do with Warren County, I mean COUNCILMAN STEC- Take a recommendation... COUNCILMAN BREWER-If there is something we might thing that maybe reach some threshold we could I think we could send a copy of the plans to? COUNCILMAN STEC-We could always seek input. COUNCILMAN BREWER-A copy of the plans to the City to the Planning Board couldn't we or not? Would that be such a hard thing to do? EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROUND-There is a requirement, typically right now it is a five hundred foot notification if you are adjoining an municipal boundary it is a Type I type action under SEQRA particularly like rezoning that is a requirement, whether it is informally or formally I am sure you can come to some kind of agreement, but what is significant, when do you want to be notified. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Say a building over a certain square foot or something like that. COUNCILMAN STEC-Within a certain boundary like on the South of Quaker Road. COUNCILMAN TAYLOR-Or it would generate a certain amount of traffic. I do not know. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Any developer tells you, they could build a hundred and ten thousand square foot building it will only generate three more cars a week. COUNCILMAN STEC- Y ou know how those planners are Bud, you thought you were going to get away tonight, I could not let you do that. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think that is a great idea. COUNCILMAN BREWER-The same goes both ways. COUNCILMAN STEC-Ifyou had a good project going on in the City and at a bear minimum I mean, we certainly, public comment, under pubic comment if you wanted to fire it to your planning board and say prepare a recommendation I mean, certainly a recommendation coming out of the Glens Falls Planning Board would carry an awful lot of status, probably more status than an individual Glens Falls resident showing up at a meeting saying I got beef with that project. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Wouldn't that fall under SEQRA requirements, that they could comment? EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROUND-We could distribute our agenda's, we can fax them to the City every month that is simple. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-The other thing that could be done is because we did this I remember with the County Planning Board and it is specifically allowed for under 239N but we could the respective legislative bodies could enact a resolution with some very simplistic language in it that would give directive to you and each planning board as to when you notify the other communities, from that day forward that is policy. That would be a very simple resolution to write, maybe you do some linear feet within a border, next to the border, mirroring a lot of what is there already but formally set in a resolution and maybe add some things to it and then that notification would occur. COUNCILMAN STEC-And we could prepare that and certainly have our Attorney provide you all with a draft so that our two are dove tailed and not necessarily identical but certain hit the same points with a real similar thresholds and we can each pass a resolution and make that policy. That is probably a really good idea. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We could each enact the same resolution for our respective planning boards and zoning boards to follow. COUNCILMAN STEC-Absolutely. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Does that effect the public hearing process and all that does it if we enact, do a resolution to that effect? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I am not talking about a local law I amjust saying a resolution. COUNCILMAN T A YLOR-I would like to see the Planning Board become more of a planning board and not an approval board. I can see your idea about the street lights being the same coming down Board Street into the City. That is the kind of the thing that if we had two boards working together and I do not know how you do it, how you accomplish it. . . COUNCILMAN STEC-You could have a similar joint session. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-If you want to take that to its logical conclusion in the Town of North Elba the Village of Lake Placid, those two communities work off from one Zoning Board and one Planning Board. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I do not think you would go to that. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I do not see Tim, in a relatively short term I do not see why, like I am saying a five or seven year period that you couldn't if you want to really pursue Smart Growth, and you really want to get your hands around it I do not see why you couldn't have a joint planning board and joint zoning board someday. COUNCILMAN STEC-It might be easier to do that with a Village and Township then a Town and a City. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Why, why is it so different? COUNCILMAN STEC-From a legal standpoint I am just thinking, a Village is a subset of a Town. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No, it is not, it is an incorporated entity just like the City is. COUNCILMAN STEC-It is in the Town though. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I am telling you, at some point if you really want to start talking about intermunicipal cooperation put your money where you mouth is that is the type of thing you do. You get a jointly appointed planning board and zoning board COUNCILMAN BREWER-Then comes the effect of COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Then you are really going to consider the impact to down town and the impact in the suburban areas and it would be right there and jointly staffed too, I mean joint support staff. I am not saying right away a knee jerk reaction and every body is going to say oh wait, I am saying with things like this resolution you can gradually introduce that idea and work to that end. But if you really want to get to Smart Growth someday and you know put the wheels on the pavement that is what you are looking at. COUNCILMAN STEC-Jimjust reminded me and to change the subject back to library a little bit and I know that we talked a little bit about this informally the other day and I think probably we all have had conversations with each other. Now that the library vote is behind us and I agree it certainly is not a pressing issue anymore, it was soundly defeated in all three municipalities which frankly surprised me a little bit but, I think now that it is off the table and we do not have anything hot and heavy coming down the pike that we are afraid what the answer could be anymore we may want to seek some sort of clarification. So, if there is another time where we find out what exactly is that 1999 legislation do to how the vote gets tallied. Just so we go in with open eyes and there aren't any hurt feelings in the future and again that would certainly be something for you Harry and Dennis to discuss and certainly involve maybe the council. I think it is worth getting an answer on and like I said if we get the answer that none of us like or one if we wanted to seek for the State Legislature to maybe clarify with another amendment so that we are all operating off the same sheet of music. When we go in and vote no and this is what the vote is going to mean. Fortunately it did not matter this time but they are not done I can see maybe two years from now, maybe five maybe more, eventually they are going to come back with another referendum. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Did Bud have anything else, we sort of cut him off there. COUNCILMAN T AYLOR-All these ideas we are talking about are kind of big ideas and it will take a long time to accomplish them. I think is we are really going to try to get something done and to have the public think that we are working together we ought to have some little things that we could do in a hurry and make COUNCILMAN STEC- The Memorial Day Parade that is our goal. COUNCILMAN TAYLOR-One of the things that has always bugged me is that we have border streets and I think of W estern Avenue and Fort Amherst and sometimes we go down the street and pick up the junk on one side and sometimes you plow and sometimes we don't. There ought to be a way that we could either take streets like Queensbury take Fort Amherst and Glens Falls take Western and be responsible for the maintenance of those streets. COUNCILMAN STEC-I know that Rick would probably express and I am sure our Attorneys would there is going to be a liability issue but I think with a contractual.. TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-We could agree to do that that is nothing... COUNCILMAN STEC-Absolutely we do that with the County is what I was going to add, we do that with the County so I do not see why, that is a very good idea, Bud. TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-We could do that in a simple agreement. COUNCILMAN T AYLOR-But that is something that could happen quickly. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Why don't we, can we work up a list of those streets. COUNCILMAN STEC- That might be a good project to throw Chris's way or throw it to Highway. COUNCILMAN PAUQUETTE-I was talking about leaf pickup before Rick decided he was going to do it, for Richardson Street and Western Avenue and Fort Amherst. COUNCILMAN STEC-Just ask those people to lug their leaves across the street. COUNCILPERSON WEBER-They do. COUNCILMAN P AUQUETTE- They not only do that but people that go this way lug them across the street too. COUNCILMAN STEC- That is a good idea, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to do that. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Probably all we would have to do is measure the length and make sure that the highway guys haven't got to worry about gee I plow two miles ... COUNCILMAN STEC-It will work itself out. We can figure something out. TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-Are you talking about just plowing or plowing and maintenance? COUNCILMAN STEC-I think plowing is probably the immediate start but... COUNCILMAN BREWER-As time goes on you work into the maintenance. COUNCILMAN STEC-Plowing is probably the biggest issue but certainly the leaf pickup is the other issue and maybe paving, is paving in COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Why don't we look at it all. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Can we accomplish the plowing before the... COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Why don't we look at all the issues and then see what we can tackle but look at maintenance. MAYOR REGAN-I not sure how much plowing is going to yield because I think that is pretty much, lets take Fort Amherst I think that north side is in Queensbury the south side is in Glens Falls but I think the roadway itself is actually in the City, although it does veer off a little bit when you get toward Bay Road. I think Western Avenue too, the roadway is actually all in the City. COUNCILMAN WEBER-The roadway is in the City the other side. COUNCILMAN TAYLOR-Because of the right of way on both sides of the street. MAYOR REGAN-Actually I think on the Queensbury side of Western Avenue a couple offeet in is actually the City of Glens Falls, in fact I think they pay a couple bucks in taxes on that. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Pretty simple then you take care of it. COUNCILMAN STEC-A big yellow line. That is a good idea. COUNCILPERSON BREWER-I think it is a great idea. COUNCILMAN WEBER-I think Jerome Avenue too, near Kensington School. COUNCILMAN STEC-Coolidge, Western.. . Fire Road..! got calls from people that were concerned about what was going on Western Avenue and my answer was that is really a City issue, in fact I had asked Chris Round about it a little bit because we are looking at a traffic study in the Town. Clearly, I do not know the last time the City had one done but that, obviously a good portion of the traffic that is generated in the Town enters the City and we are looking at that for things like timing lights and things like that. That might be a project to say maybe we coordinate, I do not know if you are due for one or not. Coordinating a traffic study and incorporate data points in the City at maybe key locations or do a City wide one I do not know if you have got one on your plate we have one on our plate. That is kind of why I mentioned it. As far as what kind of signaling would be appropriate, signs or traffic light or what ever and timing they after that. COUNCILPERSON WEBER-We are having a traffic study on Warren Street, actually that should be commg up. MAYOR REGAN-I talked to Scott Sopczyk the other day he expects that by mid week, like tomorrow. COUNCILMAN STEC-Clearly anything that you all do with traffic is going to effect us and vice versa I think a minimum we should try to strive to keep each other posted. Weare about to do a traffic study here and that may send up a signal for Chris Round and the Town to say, we were going to do that next year but you know if they are doing it now maybe it makes some sense to do ours now instead and we will do something else next year and vice versa. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We are going to be getting a resolution for planning board, zoning board referrals to start framing that in. TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-Yes. COUNCILMAN STEC-I would like to pursue the idea of trading off some responsibilities on different border roads. What our options are and COUNCILMAN BREWER-Ask Rick what he thinks about it or whatever, anything else Bud or anyone else? COUNCILMAN DIAMOND-The only thing I would like to add is I would like to get back to the earlier proposal about the rules that we are going to set forth for the meetings. I think that Councilman Taylor made the suggestion that we open the floor up to the public and I do not know if we agreed to ten minutes per individual. We need to establish time frames for the entire meeting from the start of the meeting, I think until the close of the meeting. These issues have been real hot issues as far as I am concerned within the City parameters issues that we have to deal with for three years now. I can see that once we give public opinion these issues are going to take an awful lot of time. So, I think we need to establish a time frame and maybe prioritize these issues that we want to discuss. I know myself I have not sat down with the Mayor or other Members of the Council and discuss some issues from the City standpoint that currently are not on this agenda sheet that we may want to discuss and get that included on the agenda. So, and that just to reiterate what Bud was saying, these issues are real big issues and I think as we get more involved it is difficult to say that they are going to be resolved in a short term. I think that once we get the public involved from my previous experience there is no such thing as a small issue. But, I think we need to establish a time frame because I think we could discuss these things openly into the wee hours of the morning and really not get anywhere so to speak. So, I guess I would like to talk to the Council, establish an agenda similar to the proposal that you folks have put together and then we can kind of interchange our priorities or what we would like to see done from the City standpoint also. It is kind of like here is your agenda here is our agenda, these are really important these are priorities to our concerns within the City and they may not be exactly what some of the issues that you have here. Not saying that we are not going to address them all but there might be some things that we would like to address. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think that is what the intent of this meeting was so that we could do just that. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-To take that a step further why don't we try and have like a major grouping and a minor grouping, minor things like this resolution of maintenance and plowing, referrals to the Planning Board and things like that are very short term of a minor nature and things like a larger nature like this so called Smart Growth initiative that may take some more time and effort would be of a major concern. So, we start developing two groups here to look at. Then we can prioritize within each group those things that are most important from a minor perspective and can be done right away and then those things that are most important from a major perspective and prioritize within that as well. COUNCILMAN STEC-Dana or Tina or anything else. I think we have accomplished what we wanted to accomplish tonight. But if, I do not want to .. What I hear was and correct me if I am wrong, items that we are going to shoot for, trying to work on for next meeting, which would be the 29th this idea of the planning board referrals, boundary roads, memorial day parade and garbage, joint garbage day for minor immediate type of things that should be able to handle quickly. The big major, the Smart Growth, Economic Development those kinds of issues. I think that, Jack your point is well made, certainly an exchange maybe you could give us as Jim pointed out a list of minors and majors and prioritize your list and we can do a similar kind of prioritize and then exchange them. Maybe at the next meeting or exchange them and the facts before hand so that we, we have so much to cover that maybe we will just want to say these are some simple ones and hit them in this order and these are the bigger ones and hit them in that order. COUNCILMAN DIAMOND-I think it is also important that we do put a time frame on each one of these topics they way it will be discussing, because again. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And then have a set time for public input too. COUNCILMAN DIAMOND-Yea. So, we can get the publics input also, because some times these smaller topics ... COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Since the Mayor is putting together the next agenda together that is his job. Got all that? COUNCILMAN BREWER-Five or ten minutes from the public or not? COUNCILMAN STEC- The way we do it normally when we involve the public for comment, five minutes to come up and talk on it an clearly if we invite somebody to come speak a Common Councilor I mean a Supervisor or Economic Development person they get the floor for, what ever else we plan. But, the general public comment five minutes a person to come up and that is how we try to do it we are not always very good at it. We have gone to one o'clock in the morning. MAYOR REGAN-I think it is important that these meetings be worth everybody's time and we get, we actually get some work done. Certainly I am not opposed to public comment but if it gets into a big debating society thing or something like that we all have a lot of meetings to go to we have a lot on our agenda and ... COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We will just say, fifteen minute, twenty minute whatever we think is appropriate set time and as we will limit our input, we will have a regular agenda like Jack suggested from 7:00 to 7:20 we will talk about this and from 7:20 to 7:40 we will talk about that and then 7:40 to 8:00 you have the public session just as an example. COUNCILMAN STEC-Anything else? I was think an hour an hour and a half tonight we are at an hour and a half, I really appreciate everyone's attendance tonight, everyone I know Kay was feeling a little under the weather and Dennis is detained on vacation and ... but I am very happy with the participation I think it was very positive hopefully everyone else did and COUNCILMAN BREWER-Do you think we ought to take some comment? COUNCILMAN STEC-Does anyone have a burning desire to make comment? Mr. Porter WARREN COUNTY SUPY. JOHN PORTER-County Supervisor Town of Queensbury, first of all, I commend both of the groups as a Taxpayer and I mean that sincerely to start this. I think there was some good comments and I think you are off to a great start. Only one, there are a couple of things that I have a burning in my side it should be done and I do not know who brought it up first, the parade. Mayor do you control the parade in the City of Glens Falls? MAYOR REGAN - I control everything in the City. . . SUPERVISOR PORTER-Do you have somebody in charge of the parade? MAYOR REGAN-Actually, Jim Clark. SUPERVISOR PORTER-Who controls the parade in Queensbury? COUNCILMAN STEC- The veterans... SUPERVISOR PORTER-But it is still, it is basically sponsored by the Town and the City. COUNCILMAN STEC-We have to pass a resolution for the route.. MAYOR REGAN-I think John it probably very similar in the City, I know that Jim is sort of the liaison if you will, it is sort of a regular group that, it is more or less the same people every year. SUPERVISOR PORTER-I think you ought to shake hands tonight and say lets have a joint parade and go to your two parties and say we a going to have a joint parade, and cut it and do it. If you keep waiting and waiting and waiting it doesn't get done. That is my suggestion. Number 2 another, we all look at asset we look at buildings the Mayor is looking for office space the Town is looking for office space I think the two communities ought to look at what you have as assets for government offices and share that. If the Town of Queensbury has to put their planning board someplace it could be in the City. With the advent of the computer it could be any place in the world. I think we ought to look at these assets rather than concrete and mortar. That is just a suggestion. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I whole heartily believe that we should have a joint planning board and zoning board in a relatively near term, I really mean that. SUPERVISOR PORTER-I agree with you. I am glad to hear the words pro active, pursue and get it and Smart Growth, Master Plan and Smart Planning. I commend both groups I think it is very, very positive and I think it has taken a lot of time and effort to put this thing together but I think it is going to be worth while. Thank you. COUNCILMAN STEC-Anyone else, I saw, John had his hand up, Mr. Salvador? MR. JOHN SALVADOR-Thank you. Shortly before the election I was somewhat disappointed that Mayor Regan did not join the other two municipalities in supporting a request to the Comptroller concerning the 1999 legislation that you mentioned. This is going to come up again, it is going to reoccur and there is no sense in that library board, staff expending any of our taxpayer dollars without knowing whether or not they are on legal ground. The sooner the better. This subject by the way cuts to the heart of Article 9 of the New York State Constitution dealing with home rule. I think it is something we have to get settled. The other aspect of municipal home rule law is the County's burning desire to have a bed tax. A bed tax can be instituted in this County on a vote by the County Board of Supervisors. The people, those being taxed will have absolutely nothing to say. They will conduct their usual public hearing and go on their merry way and vote. This is the power they have under the general municipal law, so these are areas that both of these board should be actively involved in. Thank you. MAYOR REGAN-It is a pleasure to meet the famous John Salvador, I have read about you in the paper. I would say my feeling about the library issue was you know we did not even know what it was going to come out, whether or not it was going to be an issue as it turned out it wasn't. I did not see the sense in getting spending a lot of time or getting terribly deeply involved in that since we did not even know how it was going to turn out any ways. As Dan suggested I think there is plenty of time to get that issue resolved before the next proposal if there is going to be a proposal. So, I do not have any problem with that. MR. SALVADOR-Whether or not the voters had voted for that I think is less important than the fact it is still out there. It can re-occur, if we do not do something about it, if we do not get it clarified, if we do not get a legal opinion from either the Comptroller or the Attorney General we are going to run right smack into it again. MAYOR REGAN -Well that is what I just said, I just said as Dennis said or as Dan said we have plenty of time to enough to do that, I am not sure what we would have to do with the bed tax but who knows. MR. SALVADOR - Well, you are, the plan is that the City would have a source of bailout for the Civil Center, that is in the plan. MAYOR REGAN-I beg you pardon? MR. SALVADOR-The City would have a funding source to support the Civic Center. MAYOR REGAN - I have not been informed of that. I would like to know if there is one, though. But what does that have to do with the bed tax? MR. SALVADOR-The money that would come in as the result of a bed tax to the County treasury would be distributed for certain purposes, one of the purposes is money for the Civic Center. MAYOR REGAN-That has never been discussed with me by anybody, they have never brought it up to me, sorry, I do not know what to tell you. MR. SALVADOR-Within the County organization this is how they get the votes from the City Supervisors is to give them something from the pot. MAYOR REGAN-I was never approached by that so I do not know how to argue with that although I do not think that is such a bad idea but that's time for another... in fact we might go out and support that. MR. SALVADOR-My point with the bed tax is, is a classic example of taxation without representation. Those who will pay the tax that is the tourist from the outside the visitor will pay the tax had absolutely nothing to say about the fact that they will be paying this tax and it is a serious encumbrance on the businesses that have to collect and remit the tax. That is something you should appreciate. COUNCILMAN STEC-Thank you John, anyone else before we ..while we have the Mayor here anyone else? All right, well I guess we will call it a night and I thank you everyone for their attendance. Meeting adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury