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2001-05-03 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MAY 3, 2001 MTG. #18 RES. 190-191 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN JAMES MARTIN COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER OPENED THE MEETING 1.0 DISCUSSIONS 1.1 DOUBLE H HOLE IN THE WOODS PROPERTY MR. MARK LEV ACK- I am here as an agent on behalf of the Double H Hole in the Woods Ranch. I have the property listed for sale the listing price is Seven Hundred Thousand Dollars. Noted it is the Ranch's desire to poll the board to get an opinion from each member if they feel the property is zoned properly and if not what is the opinion of each board member on what they feel it should be zoned. The Ranch wants the Board to know that it does have fiduciary, that fiduciary is not only to the gifting party to uphold the gift but to also achieve the highest and best price that it can for this property. The Ranch believes that the highest and best use is commercial. They also know that ultimately that may not be the outcome, this maybe a residential property. Reviewed the history of the property. The Board has asked me to come here this evening and see if there is a solution that lies somewhere between a commercially zoned property and a residentially zoned property. Noted there is going to be an outcome frm this meeting, the Double H based on your recommendations will make an application for a zone change or make an application for a residential subdivision. The Double H has a proposal on the table that is not contingent upon zoning, or site plan approval, it is a two step contract will offer the Double H one price in the event of a commercial zone and another price in the event of a residential zone. The Ranch is willing for work with the Board... UNKNOWN-Questioned if they were paying taxes? MR. LEV ACK-Yes that are paying taxes. UNKNOWN-Questioned if Mr. Wood had ownership in the property, and the Double H Hole in the Woods is the exclusive owner? MR. LA V ACK-Mr. Wood does not have any ownership in the property and Double H is the exclusive owner. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Questioned if the current property owner will accept an offer to sell the property based on a value as residentially zoned? MR. LEV ACK-That is being considered. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Questioned if the Town of Queensbury made an offer at the same price would that be accepted. MR. LEV ACK-It is not, because the Double H already has an offer it is willing to accept. MR. ROGER BOOR-Spoke to the Board regarding a transaction to Mr. Wood of Sage Road... COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think it is poor policy, poor planning, the problems with residential living in that area of town due to the draw backs of such close proximity to commercial development, highway noise, odors from restaurants, it is extremely poor policy to consciously decide we are going to install ten to fourteen more houses in that area and put those people in that kind of situation. I have been on record this is commercial property but I have heard the word. I have sat through three different proposals the Red Lobster, the Cracker Barrel and a Hotel, the people have spoken loud and clear and that is why at the last meeting I am on record saying lets get this under some sort of conservation buy it and lock it away. MS. PATRICIA STRAINER-I do not have a problem with houses, it is a far cry from a restaurant... COUNCILMEN BREWER-Noted he did not have any problem with any perspective development to go on that property but I think unfairly to this Town Board, there has been one issue before this Town Board with the Motel, the Hayes brothers pulled back, to say that there is going to be a decision made tonight I think is very unfair to us. Suggested that all the parties get together, the neighbors, the developer, the Town Board and work something out. MR. LEV ACK-Noted that this is a ten-year-old issue...Noted he was not here tonight to give the board an ultimatum, I am here to inform the Board that there is a contract that the Double H is ready to accept. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Questioned when this transaction is to occur? MR. LEV ACK-Noted that the Double H is looking for what way to go, it is looking to this board for that direction.. . COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I would like to go to a public referendum to purchase it. COUNCILMAN STEC-I agree with Jim, go to public referendum. MR. DAVID STRAINER-Noted that Mr. Levack said it was his job to get the highest and best use for this property a realtors job is to get the highest and best price. The Town has offered to match this offer who makes the decision for the Hole in the Woods to sell this property? MR. LEV ACK-A board. MR. STRAINER-Questioned why members of the Board have not come here this evening? MR. LEV ACK-Noted that the Board knows what this property means to a lot of people... MR. STRAINER-Questioned why a realtor would turn down the Town's offer? MR. LEV ACK-They already have an offer we do not need to entertain another offer. MR. STRAINER-You as the realtor have the option to get the highest and best price for this property if he is willing to pay you a dollar more I do not understand why they would not listen. MR. LEV ACK-Because they have already agreed to accept the other offer. Noted that the new owner is going to embark on a process of either applying for a residential subdivision or some kind of commercial subdivision. The contract has already been established and we have a firm proposal from a buyer. Noted that the Town has had years to buy this property. SUPERVISOR BROWER-I do not think it is appropriate for the Town to purchase property simply to keep it from, especially in this particular case because it sets a precedent for the whole town and I think you are asking all taxpayers of the Town to be burdened over a piece of property that in some cases isn't anywhere near them. COUNCILMAN STEC-I could not agree with you more but I think that is why Jim and I are saying put it to a public referendum. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Spoke to the Board regarding various communities that pool their monies to buy open space and lock property away and I think the case can certainly be made on this property. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Noted he had encouraged some of the residents in the area to have a fund raising effort to purchase the property....spoke about the impact of the Greenway Connector to the community. I do not think that the Board would be willing to rezone that property commercial without knowing the project that was being proposed for that property. COUNCILMAN STEC-Spoke to the Board regarding the 1998 Comprehensive Land Use Plan calls for the creation of a new zoning classification for this parcel our code is in revision now and should be adopted later this year so I think to answer one of your questions is there a way that this could go to other than residential in the future, yes according to the Comprehensive Land Use Plan there is a less intensive, I believe it is Plaza Commercial or ...and that is something that came out of citizen input. Noted that the property is zoned residential and it is presumptuous to expect that you are going to get a commercial enterprise on residential property. MR. LEV ACK-The business community has seen it as a site that they want to have, every one of them has gone into it with their eyes open knowing that it was zoned residential. ...All we want to do is to go forward, we have had an opportunity to go forward, we want to know from the Board if the best way the Board wanted to see us go forward was in a residential vein or a commercial vein. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Questioned who is the Chairman of the Hole in the Woods Board? MR. LEV ACK-Noted he met with three Board Members, Max Yurenda, Floyd Rourke, and John Forester these three gentlemen are the three gentlemen that have been handling this sale. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-From my stand point I would be in favor of extending an invitation to these three gentlemen to come here and have a direct dialog. MR. PHIL RUSSELL-Questioned that at the time of the sale for the mall was that property viewed as a buffer to the housing development? I am saying on record that if you take that land away where are you going to put the road if the road has to get wider? COUNCILMAN TURNER-I have been in this town many years, in 1967 it was commercial, Tom Rogers bought the property where these people live called Glen Ridge, that is now Greenway North. In 1988 the Comprehensive Land Use Plan you said you were not notified we had public meetings in the High School, Queensbury advertised in the paper over the radio about the Comprehensive Land Use Plan you never showed up. Why? MR. LEV ACK-I am going on what I was told, Mr. Wood told me he was never notified. I am here on behalf of Double H Hole in the Woods Ranch to say that there is a residentially zoned property we feel that it isn't the proper zoning if you think so lets work together to get make it something other than that. ...It is zoned residential today, if this board feels that the highest and best use of the property is as it is presently zoned that is ok. If this Town Board feels that there is another avenue somewhere between the spectrum of residential and highway commercial I said when I first opened my comments at this meeting we want to work with the Town Board to put this thing in the direction that makes the most amount of sense for everybody involved. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I will take that statement right there and lets make the appeal to your Board of Directors take the message back from my standpoint, speaking for me, I would like to be a buyer at the table. COUNCILMAN STEC-Me to. MR. LEV ACK-I appreciate your frank comment...I will relay that to the Board 100%. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Noted that he extends an invitation to come and meet with us in this kind of setting. MR. LEV ACK-I think you are making some great comments and I will bring that back to the board. You want to get the Double H here and you want to put forth a discussion to buy the property that is the outcome? COUNCILMAN BREWER-I do not think that we said that. We said we would like them to come in and talk to us about it, we did not say we wanted to have them to come in here so we could buy it, we cannot do that. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I would vote to get the permissive referendum on the ballot get it scheduled and put the process together. COUNCILMAN STEC-I would like to see what the selling price is first.... we are going to negotiate, if we are going to buy it, we are going to put a referendum out with a dollar figure on it.... UNKNOWN-What would they be willing to sell it to the community for? MR. LEV ACK-The asking price for the property is seven hundred thousand; if the community has an offer to make it can make the offer just like the private enterprise has made an offer on the property. UNKNOWN-Are you saying a residential developer would pay seven hundred thousand dollars for that? MR. LEV ACK-I am saying as a Real Estate Broker we can only quote the asking price, the asking price of the property is seven hundred thousand dollars. If this Board or anyone else decides that they want to buy it they can make an offer. COUNCILMAN STEC-Ifwe meet with Hole in the Woods we are going to discuss the dollar figure then I can go to referendum MR. LEV ACK-That is up to the Board to decide. UNKNOWN-The Town and region needs to do lot of things to move forward, we need industry so there are quality jobs, we need to take a look at a whole host of issues. It seems that we seem to get obsessed with this particular issue here and I think the Board before they go forward and entertain another series of meetings, question whether or not you need to go forward with more discussion and dialog or whether it might be more appropriate just to merely leave this meeting tonight and say look it, it is zoned this way end of story. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I honestly believe that it is timely to make the offer and get it as a conservation area and leave it as that. UNKNOWN-As a citizen I would like to see my elected officials move forward with an agenda to advance this community forward. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think preservation of this area is advancing this area... Town Board agreed to have Mr. Levack contact the Double H Hole in the Woods to have them meet with the Town Board...9th of May, 2001 UNKNOWN-Questioned what is compelling some of the arguments here is it personal tax considerations or is it public good, the voters have a right to know. COUNCILMAN BREWER-The end result would be public good. COUNCILMAN MARTIN- That is the only way we can do this... UNKNOWN-If the driving modivation to elevate the price is so somebody can write more off as a deduction I think that is a valid point. COUNCILMAN STEC-Spoke to the Board regarding a conservation easement or recreation easement. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Noted that he did see a potential for an office park or low impact thing, that would be a tax generator for the community which you would lose. You are not only losing the cost of the property if the voters accepted the proposal but you also take it off the tax rolls. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You cannot be so short sighted to think that is the end of the tax equation with the presence of open space and conservation areas in a community, the long term effect of the presence of those types of parcels actually drive up real property values and contribute to the tax base. UNKNOWN-Questioned if a hotel was there what would it do to the values of the homes that are there now? 2.0 WEST GLENS FALLS FIRE ENGINE Discussion held regarding the purchase of a Fire Engine for the West Glens Falls Volunteer Fire Company. Mr. Peter Harrington spoke to the Town Board regarding the length of time for financing of the engine. Passed out reports for five, ten, fifteen and twenty years financing on four hundred and twenty five thousand dollar loan at six and a quarter Discussion held regarding the purchase of a Fire Engine for the West Glens Falls Volunteer percent. Noted that the rate is not set we just used that as a basis. Spoke to the Town Board regarding concern over cash flow and how it would effect the tax basis, I do not see where paying two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in extra interest is benefiting the taxpayers. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Suggested looking at the ten or fifteen year. MR. HARRINGTON-Other concerns; tax rate, we figured out that all of our budgets equal up to and what is appropriated from the Town Budget ...passed out to the Town Board Members ... What I did here was put all five fire companies up there, there is our two thousand and one approved budgets from our contracts and our two thousand and two budgets, for all five fire companies the two thousand and one budget total is one million six hundred and twenty seven thousand and change and for the two thousand and two budget one million six hundred and seventy thousand and change. What is appropriated in two thousand and one of adopted town budget is one million eight hundred and forty six thousand four hundred and fourteen dollars. If you subtract what has been approved for our budgets already that leaves a two hundred and nineteen thousand dollar surplus this year. However we put the financing together why would we have to raise the tax rate to cover that, isn't there going to be enough built in? If you do not raisethe tax rate next year and you take two thousand and one's approve budget again for the fire service and subtract out our totals for two thousand and two it still leaves one hundred and seventy five thousand dollar surplus. Again, able to allocate the funding for the truck. I do not know if that is ear marked for something or what it is there for. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It stays in the fire department, and we use that to try and keep next years budget low. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Questioned why are we getting such a big surplus? COUNCILMAN STEC-Questioned, is this the right time to buy the truck? MR. HARRINGTON-Noted this is an eighty eight truck... COUNCILMAN STEC-Ifwe decide West Glens Falls should also have a truck fund we do have a surplus to fund that truck fund. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Town wide, do we have all the figures on Bay Ridge Station? ..not all figures lll. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Questioned why we want to buy a truck this early... Discussion was held regarding vehicle turn over. Town Board decided to hold a public hearing on the purchase of a truck for West Glens Falls Volunteer Fire Company. Date of Hearing May 21st. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 190.2001 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Executive Session to discuss personnel issues. Duly adopted this 3rd day of May, 2001 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE AND REGULAR SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 191.2001 RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive and Regular Session. Duly adopted this 3rd day of May, 2001 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brower NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury