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2002-08-28 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING AUGUST 28TH, 2002 MTG#39 RES# 345-346 7:00 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER BOARD MEMBER ABSENT COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER TOWN COUNSEL ROBERT HAFNER SUPERVISOR BROWER-Opened meeting. WEST GLENS FALLS EMERGENCY SQUAD BUILDING UPDATE PRESIDENT, SANDY BOUCHER, KATHRINE WEBB, VICE PRESIDENT PAT BRENNAN, LONG RANGE PLANNING COMMITTEE CHAIR PERSON (Mr. Brennan presented Board Members with copy of letter) Ms. Boucher-Spoke to the board regarding a new building. Councilman Brower-asked if information was reviewed with Mr. Hess prior to meeting? Ms. Boucher-yes. Mr. Brennan-looked at property next to West Glens Fire House that they are going to give them for about thirty thousand. Ms. Boucher-roughly two acres of land. Mr. Brennan-looking to get Town Board approval to go ahead with the purchase of property will start looking at architects for a design to come back to the board with a design. Supervisor Brower noted one of his concerns is before they can give conceptual approval they have to be further along in the process of obtaining the properties that he understands it should be within a month they should have it tied down. Mr. Brennan asked can they have the boards approval saying when they close the deal... Supervisor Brower-thinks the board would be in a position to make a decision at that point. Mr. Brennan-asked if they had enough information from them now? Supervisor Brower-as far as the propertygoes, yes. Mr. Brennan noting there are some numbers in there about obtaining an architect. Supervisor Brower those are things they discuss now. Comptroller, Mr. Hess-going into the 2003 budget process if this is going occur will need a 2003 budget amendment. The Squad has a 2003 budget that should require an amendment you have to appropriate the money to fund the cash needs unless they have cash resources.... to pay soft cost. You would have to have a rough budget of the capital project at least a soft cost and front cost because it would require a budget amendment. If you adopt a 2003 budget and don't have this plugged in you might not have the fund balance you need to draw from to do this later. They need to firm preliminary costs ahead of time. Ms. Webb-have taken a vote from their members and have voted to definitely move so they are going to move their building and are hoping to buy over at West noted they want the board to agree with them noting they have waited three and an a half years. Councilman Brewer-noted he supports what they are going to do and wants to help in doing what they are doing noting he has financial concerns. The building that was showed was six hundred and seventy five thousand looking at the sheet that was given a week ago it is up to one point one. Mr. Brennan-Noted he has spoken to architects that do this type of work and he came up with square foot number based on an imaginary building just on square foot cost along based on a seven thousand square foot building noting that's why they are here. Councilman Boor-noted he has a problem with two hundred thousand. Councilman Brewer-questioned if they have a history of architect coss? Comptroller, Mr. Hess they have some. Councilman Brewer-Questioned the forty thousand to acquire the property is it going to cost ten thousand for closing? Ms. Boucher-the survey cost, the subdivision if it has to be subdivided, lawyer's fees, and purchase of the property. Ms. Boucher-spoke to the board regarding the amount of use the building gets. Noted she would rather be high to start out and then cut it down, but to look feasibly at a seven thousand square foot building for an emergency squad that does the volume that we do in the Town of Queensbury doesn't think it's really far out. Councilman Boor- doesn't think it is either understands their frustration. Asked that they try to keep the emotion out of it this these are nuts and bolts things that they are dealing with noting they have to be careful and they have a responsibility. Councilman Stec-it's a given you have to move, it's a given that we want to be bigger to accommodate the future noted his concern about the dollars he questions the achitectural fees is comfortable with the site. Comptroller Hess-noted they are really asking for more than conceptual approval thinks they are asking for money to fund the conceptual approval. It was his understanding when they talked they were looking for the Town to front those soft costs noting it requires a budget adjustment it can't be done tonight because they don't have a budget from them to do that. Then the board has to adopt that then you have to put together a budget then adopt it in a resolution with a public hearing at a future meeting. Ms. Boucher-the Fire Company has agreed to whatever needs to be done they don't want money right now they are willing to sign a note saying when the money comes in they get it. Questioned if they need to get a price of an architect? Councilman Stec-would like to avoid that. Supervisor Brower-at this point in time to go beyond the conceptual idea that I think the board supports your concept of moving, but doesn't want to have an action of the board affect oter negotiations that are on going at this point doesn't want to take any official action right now. Ms. Boucher noted they have already voted to sell their property. Councilman Boor noted they are acting on this assumed this would be complete. Supervisor Brower-know they are going to have an obligation to build facilities that would be suitable for EMS. The size of the facilities things of that nature could be negotiable the bottom line is the board understands they have a commitment to you. Asked members of the EMS Squad not to put for sale signs up. Attorney Hafner-understands that the current contract with the Town runs through the end of 2003. That contract says you are going to provide services to the Town and we the Town are going to pay you certain amount of money. If that amount of money changes there are statutory things that the Town has to go through before they can agree to that. The contract has certain kinds of expenses and needs the Town's approval before you can go spend that money. 0 go through the changes of the numbers of the contract there is a procedure that we would have to follow such as a public hearing then they have to act after the public hearing as far as the legalities of this the board can't act tonight. Ms. Boucher noted they are going to purchase the property from the Fire Company are willing to use own funds to hold the land asked the board if this is okay to do this? Comptroller Hess-the terms of the contract there is no requirement that you get the Town Boards approval to do that although it is wise to come in and make sure there is somebody behind it thinks they are hearing that there is once you come up with a budget amendment for next year. If you have the money to fund it don't need the approval of board to hold the property heard the conceptual approval that they will support a reasonable project when you come to the board with a budget. After further discussion it was the decision of the board to meet at future date to come up with budget to submit to the bordo FAITH BIBLE BAPTIST CHURCH PROPERTY UPDATE TOWN ASSESSOR, HELEN OTTE Town Assessor, Ms. Otte updated board regarding Faith Bible Baptist Church. (Presented board members with handouts of parcels). These are two parcels that are in question they are now owned by the Open Space Conservancy a non profit organization they are fully exempt except that both parcels pay water capital charges. One is the small parcel up near Division the .86 acres is the smaller one closer to Division Street end. The 68 acres extends on down to the south towards the river. At the present time they are exempt they have been for some time under Faith Bible they didn't pay any taxes either except for the capital charges for water. Supervisor Brower-questioned if the Cemetery property is included one of the two parcels? Ms. Otte-those are still Faith Bible. Supervisor Brower-as heard in the last meeting the Highway Department has been using the turn around as a road by use it's becomes a road by use over the years through utilization of that by the Town. Attorney Hafner-the parcel that is at issueis the little road by use between Ogden and Division Road it is part of the property that is owned by the Open Space Conservancy Inc. it's a road by use looks like an easement that's on it. Spoke with the Highway Superintendent who says that the Town has used and maintained it for many years and that the public periodically uses it. Also understands by talking with Harry Hansen that next year Open Space Conservancy is planning to give this parcel and a bigger chunk, which includes where the road by use is to the Town for public park services. Pliney Tucker-questioned why they can't return Division Road to a dead end road like the other three roads in that subdivision? Division Road would give the Town access to their property and Ogden Road would give the Church access to their property. The two dead end roads to be legal dead end roads they are suppose to have turn around. John Salvador-spoke to the board regarding the legalities of a road by use. Supervisor Brower-if and when the Town acquires this property if we have two roads this being Division this being Ogden and currently there is a road by use now if the Town so desires we could make some type of round about on each side of it if we wanted to once it becomes ours? Attorney Hafner-if the board wanted to they could add to it. Mr. Salvador noted this whole thing is flawed. This strip of land that we are talking about in which you want to put a Town road thinks it is an illegal entity whether or not it is a Town road by use. Mr. Salvador-The State Comptroller has addressed this issue neither the Town Board by resolution nor the Superintendent of Highways by signing a decree can make a street a Town highway by use. Attorney Hafner-they haven't done that it's the amount of the use. Supervisor Brower-noted they are not prepared to go beyond this tonight. 5 MPH SPEED LIMIT NEAR FISHER'S MARINA HOWIE FISHER OWNER OF FISHER'S MARINA AND SUSAN WEBER SUPERVISOR BROWER-Presented map to board. - In Warner Bay on the east shore of Lake George there is small bay this small bay is where Ms. Weber lives noted where the marina is. Received a phone call from Ms. Weber noting she would like to see a speed restriction on the lake noted her boat in a boathouse had sunk in the boathouse because of the wakes that were being generated in her bay. Supervisor Brower asked Mr. Fisher if he would have an objection to a 5 mph speed limit in bay, Mr. Fisher noted he has been trying to do this since 1985. Supervisor Brower recommended a petition would be helpful but the Town Board would consider more than just the signatures of residents on the point would have to consider the impact to people that navigate on the lake. Ms. Weber and Mr. Fisher came in about two weeks ago provided the Town with a petition. Supervisor Brower noted he called the Lake George Park Commission asking what would be involved if they wanted to do something. The board could set a local ordinance tat would restrict the speed to 5 mph. The Town would be required to buy the buoys Lake George Park Commission would install them next year this is a reasonable accommodation. Attorney Hafner-the process would be set the public hearing have a propose local law we have a Town Ordinance that already sets different parts of Lake George down to 5 mph. would add paragraph (f) to Section 55-6 of our Town Law. You would have to pass the resolution setting the public hearing you would have to post and publish ten days before the hearing instead of thirty hold the public hearing. Then if you approve decide after the public hearing that you want to do it then you pass the local law file it with the State. Councilman Boor- Noted he is in favor of this his concern is for the influx of other people who are going to want to have 5 mph zones extended out. Attorney Hafner noted there is a limit of how far you can go out it is fifteen hundred feet. After further discussion it was the decision of the board to go ahead wit this try to set public hearing for next regular meeting. Attorney Hafner-recommended having a surveyor give a description from one point to the other point. OUTDOOR THEATRE FUNDING "LAST OF THE MOHICANS" -SUPERVISOR BROWER SUPERVISOR BROWER-Spoke to the board regarding the Outdoor Theatre Last of the Mohicans noting most of the board members were enthusiastic about the concept. The two producers felt that it would be important to contract with the University of North Carolina cost of $16,000 where the University of North Carolina group would do a study. They have narrowed three locations down one in Queensbury at West Mountain two in Lake George one in the Village and one is in the Town. The group would come up look over the three sites and complete a report indicating their preferred site. Noted it went to the County for consideration noting they agreed to budget the money for next year unless the Budget Officer cuts it. Councilman Brewer recommended going in with Lake George and to fund eight thousand dollars immediately to get the study accomplished. Councilman Brewer originally had the meeting three months ago had a preliminary study done it was brought to the feasibility study. Lou Tessier said they are willing to pay their half we pay our half let them get the study done this year they pick the site whatever site it might be we are all going to benefit from it. Supervisor Brower noted ownership if very important whoever participates in this they should own the study. Thinks it is a County expense it will benefit the County no matter what community gets it noting it is a tourism activity. Councilman Boor noted his concern would want to talk to the people at North Carolina to see if this could be done in this time frame. Supervisor Brower noted he questions why anyone that would like to do this wouldn't pay for it themselves and it is an expense that they should be responsible for. Councilman Brewer the reason they came to the community they need community support it is going to be a non-profit corporation. Councilman Boor-asked Counsel if it is appropriate for the board to be funding the feasibility study? Attorney Hafner-noted he would have to research this to find out if it is appropriate for the Town to do this to get back to the board. RIDGE ROAD 9 (NEAR LANDFILL) PROPERTY REZONING PRESENTATION - JON LAPPER ATTORNEY LAPPER, KEVIN O'CONNOR, BRIAN O'CONNOR PRESENT Attorney Lapper- (referred to zoning map) spoke to the board regarding a piece of property to be rezoned. The piece is immediately north on Ridge Road near the intersection of Rte 149 it's north of O'Connor's pit. Councilman Stec-what is it zoned? Attorney Lapper-SR-1A. They are proposing land conservation ten acres, which is the same zone that the Town Landfill is now. With the proposed use it is something that is compatible with their operation and with the Town Transfer Station. It is for Rick Sears a stump chipping operation, which creates mulch and compost noting it is similar to what happens at the transfer station. That operation is going on now off of Dixon Road where Dick Sears Tree Service is. It's not the whole operation, but the son is doing the chipping operation they would be moving it from there to this site up on by Route 149 and Ridge. Councilman Boor-will he be doing the exact same thing or bigger scale? Attorney Lapper-doesn't know the answer this isn't a huge lot its about five aces. Councilman Boor- questioned if it was appropriate for what he's doing right now where he is? Attorney Lapper-thinks he wants to separate the father's operation from the son's operation. In the land conservation zone chipping is one of the permitted uses also sawmill and chipping operations this would be the chipping part not the sawmill part. Councilman Brewer-questioned why rezone a five-acre parcel into land conservation ten? Attorney Lapper-this operation doesn't need ten acres and you have a preexisting lot. The other alternative would be to make it into light industrial but that would open the door for more intensive uses than the land conservation use. Councilman Boor-noted one of his only concerns would be noise can it be mitigated or does it need to be mitigated? Attorney Lapper-to contact Jim Miller who is doing the landscape on this. Councilman Stec-asked the zoning for the operation off of Dixon Road? Attorney Lapper-part of it is grand fathered and part of it got a variance. (Presente conceptual plan to board) The are a lot of trees there now they would be proposing to use the existing entrance that the O'Connor's use to their pit. After further discussion the board noted this is something they would consider. ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW OF GLENS FALLS WATER FIL TRA TION PLANT - RALPH VAN DUSEN RALPH VAN DUSEN PRESENT Mr. Van Dusen, Water Superintendent-Spoke to the board regarding letter received from the City advising the Town that they are in the process for going out for proposal for their Water Filtration Plant. The purpose of the letter was to advise the Town their Counsel is telling them that the following things are not required. One is that there would be no environmental review necessary. It would not be necessary to obtain a building permit from the Town or come under any compliance with the Zoning Ordinance noting that these are not relevant to the operation of water. Noted his concern was that the Town of Queensbury on behalf of the Water Department owns a strip of land that bisects some City owned property noting it wasn't clear to him until he received the map where they are proposing to build the plant. They are using the property as a driveway right now to get into the lower junction asked Counsel to take a look at some of these questions in the letter. The map that they show kind of indicates thatmaybe the City has an easement across our property noting they have been using it for a number of years. When the tanks were built in ninety-five it significantly increased the amount of use of our property. They have some water lines installed across there they have underground power going to their booster pump that was installed in ninety-eight. They have a cross-country ski trail on the property and lighting on the property all of which maybe previous boards have authorized noting he spoke with Harry Hansen regarding this noted Mr. Hansen was sure the Recreation Department from Queensbury had never been involved in any type of a joint agreement. In looking at the map noticed that our twenty-four inch line is not entirely on our property it is on a portion of the City's it's been there since seventy-five and Attorney Hafner noted that it is fine. His concern is as long as it's not encroaching on our ability to use this for our own pipeline that's really the concern. Is a little concern about the fact tey might have installed some water lines or electric lines across it without talking to us noting if they did talk to us the Water Department wasn't involved in the conversation. The parcel that the City wants the water facility built is on this parcel (referred to map) which is less than one acre in size noting they are going to build a water plant that has a capability of eight million gallons a day half the size of Queensbury on less than one acre. There are water lines coming from the upper junction coming down there is a twenty inch connection between our transmission main and the City's pipe that was put in ninety-eight for emergency connection this cuts across here. Then there are lines coming out of this going to various portion of the City. It is going to be a real challenge for anyone to end up with buildings on this site to treat this without tearing down a bunch of trees in what is now Cole Woods noting there has been a huge public outcry not to do this. The next logical thing is to use this strip, which we own should be really concern about not being used as a staging area unless there is something in it for us. Attorney Hafner-looks at this as two big issues first is the substance of what they say in the letter. The second is what are the real estate rights here how do we protect our property where our twenty-four inch transmission line is? The first part we have an answer for the second part is going to take a little more research. Attorney Hafner recommended he finish his research then speak with Attorney Mark Noordsy who is the City Water Department Attorney about these issues after meeting to write memo to board members. DISCUSION HELD ATTORNEY HAFNER -Spoke to the board regarding report from Dave Wicks regarding dredging noting he has received comments back from Mr. Wicks noting he is planning to give his final version of report to board members. Recommended after the board has reviewed it to have an attorney-client meeting to talk about report and legal issues relating to it. RESOLUTION ENTERING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 345, 2002 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and enters into Executive Session to discuss two personnel matters and possible property acquisition. Duly adopted this 28th day of August, 2002, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower Noes: None AbsentMr. Turner (No action taken) RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION AND ADJOURN SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 346, 2002 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session and moves back into Regular Session, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. Duly adopted this 28th day of August, 2002, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor Noes: None AbsentMr. Turner On motion meeting adjourned. Respectfully Submitted, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury