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2003-01-09 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING JANUARY 9TH, 2003 MTG#2 Res. 63 7:00 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT COUNCILMAN TIMOTHY BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS SUPERINTENDENT OF BUILDING & GROUNDS, CHUCK RICE TOWN HISTORIAN, MARILYN VAN DYKE UL TILIZA TION OF BAY -RIDGE SUNNYSIDE FIREHOUSE BY TOWN HISTORIAN SUPERVISOR BROWER-Spoke to the board regarding Bay Ridge Fire Station No. 1 located at the comer of Sunnyside Road and Ridge Road noting it has been utilized as a fire station for many years. The station has bays for fire trucks it has a meeting room that was used for the members of the volunteer company for many years and it has a basement that used to have a pool table in it. The Town after the Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company decided to build a new fire station the Town felt that it was in its best interest in its capital plans the idea of securing or building a storage facility somewhere near Town Hall at the time and allocated some two hundred thousand dollars for that after we felt it would be prudent to consider the purchase of Bay Ridge Fire Company No.1, which has been secured by the Town of Queensbury for its use and purposes for the future. Some months ago the Town Historian and Warren County Historical Society expressed interest in utilizing space in that building for the Town Historian who alo is a member of the Warren County Historical Society. The historian asked if they could utilize space in that building our initial primary purpose was to secure space for records, storage, and the voting machine storage is also being accommodated at the facility currently it is my understanding this evening the voting machines are opened up and available for our examination later noted he would like to go up there later in the meeting to give you a perspective of the building. The immediate issue at hand is whether we should consider the allocation of space to the Town Historian noting he sees some benefits to considering that. If it's an occupied building our insurance is going to be about half what it will be if it's unoccupied on a regular basis. It would also free up space at Town highway garage for potential utilization by others sees potential for alleviating crowded corridors in other parts of the building. The other thing is there is plenty of room in this building noting the one thing they willneed to do is to provide for a handicapped bathroom in the facility the current bathroom would have to be modified in order to accommodate the handicapped people. The building currently is being utilized as a voting place in the Town of Queensbury. HENRY HESS, REPRESENTING HISTORICAL SOCIETY-This building has been on the Towns agenda for well over a year. Shortly after this time last year we talked to Marilyn about use of space and the idea evolved that it might be a good way to clear up some space here is to use that office space nobody made a claim for the office space we had acquired it for the storage space. Talked to some Councilmen, talked to the Supervisor actually got some approval that the concept might be advantageous. It had been discussed a number of times not extensively but extensively as anybody at that time wanted to go into it we said now is the time to get the approval to move the Historian and if you move the Historian would you allow the Historian to share her space with the Historical Society pay as you go basis. Noting he is representing the Historical Society tonight they have a home they don't need to move we're willing to move like the idea of moving in with Marilyn at this site if the board approves it. MARYBETH CASEY -Speaking as property owner. Questioned if Queensbury going to start looking into housing Not-for-Profit Organizations, noting that even though the Warren County Historical Society has that name they are not connected with the Warren County Government in any way, shape, or form other than an allotment of money that the County has given the Historical Society to use exclusively to prepare a history book of Warren County possibly other services. MARILYN V ANDYKE- Thinks what they are dealing with is a concept of taking the Historians Office and taking some space that we would allocate to the Historical Society because the Historical Society would use it in such a way that it would become a type of a History Center in that area. We would feature some exhibits in there it would not be a museum per say, but it would lean in that direction there would be exhibits and places for the public to come and go that's a little bit different than housing of business of a non-profit organization. Also noted it would be legal and possible to do under what the law says of being able to house such a center. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Not sure what the Warren County Historical base needs are how much material you have of Warren County history asked Mrs. Van Dyke to explain. MRS. VAN DYKE-In her office there are three fire proof cabinets to keep collected materials in which are mostly paper documents of one sort or another maps, and charts. There is a library case that contains a number of reference books and reference materials and scrapbooks that belong to the Town. Also have an extensive photograph collection of over two thousand photos in that building. We use the space primarily over there we have a number of volunteers come in during the week on the day that the office is opened. The preparation of material for the scrapbook keeping the files up and so on we also do a considerable amount of research from questions that we are given from the public or projects that we might be working on that has to do with the development of history. The Historical Society also has a collection we have it currently housed in a major collection room those are our paper documents, files, postcards, photographs and some hard artifacts but not a very large number at this time. Our policy i that they are in the business of having a collection and collecting historical materials. They also have a business office where they have a computer, Xerox machine, and a desk, business files where we keep our records. We have a large work room where we have tables of various sorts so we can move the room around so that we can have small committee meeting or have an actual board meeting we have a board of nineteen. It is very important when you have a collection that you have a proper place to keep it that goes for the Historian's material and would go for the material of the Historical Society. Provided board members with schematic map of the facility. TOWN CLERK, RECORDS ACCESS OFFICER, AND HEAD OF VOTING MACHINES-Thinks the first responsibility as a municipality is to look into our own needs. We have a problem with space and records space is nmning out. The Town is not getting any smaller paperwork is not getting any smaller. We are trying to accommodate the best we can hopefully to shrink it some, but the municipality is not getting any smaller. Our voting machines are getting more each year noting she has to split another district hopefully we won't need another machine. There are laws we have to follow thinks it's a great mistake for us to start looking at doing anything with this building until we completely go over everything that the municipality itself needs before we consider anybody else's needs. COUNCILMAN STEC-Asked Mrs. Casey views as an Election Commissioners perspective? MRS. CASEy-It is something that we have been concerned about for years. Before it was down in the basement of the Town Center it was a nightmare. When custodians are working in an area where they don't have free access in around the machines and good lighting mistakes are going to happen. The custodians do a wonderful job if it weren't for them there would be a lot more problems people shouldn't have to work under those circumstances under those conditions. As soon as we knew this building was purchased we sent a letter to the Town Board to please remember that we were going to be needing some space. Queensbury at this point has twenty-seven districts you have twenty-seven machines the potential to increase is there it is certainly not going to get any smaller. To try to go in to a space that just fits or that you are moving machines back and forth to be able to work on there just isn't any logic to it. Prior to my coming on as a Commissioner I don't know how they handled the requirements of public viwing I know they had public viewing it was a nightmare. The machines were lined up down in that basement you couldn't see it was just not compatible. I have given everybody copies of the Election Law that I'm obligated to follow. I'm here because the Commissioners oversee the process throughout the entire County. I am here to protect your interest because you are the Town you own the machines you pay the Custodians you host the Elections you have almost sixteen thousand voters who depend on you and we depend on you to put us all in a position where the machines can be set correctly and where they can be viewed in a well lighted well roomed area. If there is a problem you have to be able to get in and make any kind of a correction. We need to be complying with the law. Again, I'm not saying that it wasn't complied with before but it was done under very uncomfortable situations. I think that the time that the space is there and it hasn't been allocated that was the point of our letter was to let you know that this is a dire need and that the election process needs to take a priority because that is a mandated function of each Town. Prior to it being allocated we're asking that's why Jerry was gracious enough to go over and set up all the machines so that you could see the workspace. I mean it's not just twenty-seven machines it's twenty-seven machines plus envelops with paper strips and sample ballots there is endorsing straps, etc., the amount of paper work and tools that go into setting up a machine is unbelievable. Queensbury is an extra special issue because you have you At-Large Supervisor position the back of that machine at times has to accommodate as many as twenty-one endorsing straps in a series of seven candidates. It's not were notwilling to put out a lot of effort but it needs to be taken out the rank of second class citizens and brought into a full acknowledge part of your Town government the Election process needs to be protected that's why I'm here. MRS. VAN DYKE-How much allocated space do you need? SUPERINTENDENT BUILDING & GROUNDS, MR. RICE-The front bay area right now is around fourteen hundred square feet. MR. VAN DYKE-Noted she would not like to occupy the building as the only department of the government and have the rest of the building empty or not have personnel in it at all. Would be willing to be over there if you did not have the society in there if you choose not to, but with maybe some other departments if you wanted to consider that concept. COUNCILMAN BOOR-First of all for those of you that were at the last meeting there was some heated discussions want to clear the record noting his frustration was with what was pulled but nobody was willing to say why it certainly wasn't because didn't want to discuss the very issues that were talking about tonight. The last two days has done a lot of driving around Queensbury and looked at some of our facilities at what we have, what we don't have noting he agrees with what Darleen said to a great extent thinks we need to fully appreciate this Town. It's growing it's growing very fast. Thinks that this is a very poor purchase for a hundred and eighty six thousand dollars we could accommodate you with exactly what you need. We have two million dollars worth of equipment sitting outside behind the Highway Department that I would like to see go into a covered area. Would like to see what now is the Highway Department become the Planning Department and also house the Historian thinks this is a good mix noting tis building is poorly suited for both of you whether you had it completely or whether you shared it. Thinks we should put this on the market we should take the money put a new highway garage on the other side of Town like we said we were going to do at one time and should consider moving other things around doesn't think the fire station is the answer. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Another question that comes up should we consider voting in that building? COUNCILMAN BOOR-If we're going to spend one point seven million to two million dollars on a firehouse the voting public should use it at least once a year. COUNCILMAN STEC-Discussion was held about a year ago about a Needs Survey Plan for all the space that the Town owns for all the departments. The question tonight is do we think this is suitable space thinks we've answered the question. Perhaps in the future would be to sell it but in the meantime we have to find a location for voting machines. Questioned what is the future plan for the basement? SUPERINTENDENT BUILDING & GROUNDS, MR. RICE-We've cleared the basement only because the building became available to be able to do that up at Sunnyside. The minute he received notification that the building was under his department and the deed had been registered saw this as an opportunity to get the voting machines out of a jammed comer and get them up into an open space. Noted he stores equipment under the Queensbury Center noting this not the proper place to be putting that equipment that's the reason he pushed a long time ago for a combination Records Storage/Storage Facility to be built on site. There is more space in the building now the senior's have space needs as well. Have committed to them to put in a Rest Room in the basement because there is nothing down there for their game room, which is their space. The building being shaped the way it is there is not a lot of useful space in that basement anyways. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Questioned if it is sufficient for what Mr. Rice needs with the voting machines gone or do you need more space? SUPERINTENDENT BUILDING & GROUNDS, MR. RICE-It's sufficient, but I run into issues because it's a stick built structure and I've got big equipment lawnmowers and other things stored down there that's why I pushed so hard to get a new building built so I can get my equipment out from under that building. We just went through an auction I purged the basement that was another reason for Sunnyside another use for me was to have another depository for dead equipment that we were tripping over here along with voting machines. COUNCILMAN BOOR-This building no matter who uses it is going to require thirty to forty thousand dollars of improvements I think that's conservative. SUPERINTENDENT BUILDING & GROUNDS, MR. RICE-There is criteria that needs to be met for the building for both record storage and occupancy. You've all gotten the memo that Dave Hatin sent out about occupancy change of use. Record storage there are very stringent guidelines with regards to humidity and temperature control, fire, security, and security against vandalism. Occupancy falls into a criteria where fire proofing and space safety is paramount. Noted thirty thousand dollars won't touch what we're going to need to do to make the building ready for occupancy and for record storage. There are grants out there that can help a little bit on some of the things especially on the records storage the construction process will be expenSIve. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I think a needs assessment we are not going to do anything right away but is that really the best location is that really the most appropriate. I think we need to look at the big picture. SUPERVISOR BROWER-That is why the Board considered purchasing the building was for record storage. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I know and I think maybe that was hasty. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Maybe it was, there may have been some other reasons associated with that. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, do you want to expound on them? SUPERVISOR BROWER-Yea, absolutely. We felt that would be a good location for record storage and COUNCILMAN BOOR-Based on what, and I am not trying to be the devils advocate but you are aware that there are criteria as for a humidity, temperature control and all of this other stuff. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Oh yea, but air-conditioning is a humidity control, and heat is temperature control, it has heat it had air-conditioning at one point. COUNCILMAN BOOR-But nothing but garage doors on it. SUPERVISOR BROWER-I know, it does not have to be real comfortable, if it is just record storage, it depends. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I am assuming you asked these questions. SUPERVISOR BROWER-The whole board was involved in those decisions, yes, I guess you were not on the board at that time. COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, I was not. MARY BETH CASEY-I just want to clear up the perception for Tom, we are not, we would be two bays out of a five bay fire house, so when Roger was kidding about a hundred and eighty thousand building for your voting machine equipment he was joking. COUNCILMAN BOOR-No I am not, I am not joking. MARY BETH CASEY-We are the smallest section did you see the other three bays. COUNCILMAN BOOR-But what I am getting at is it has to, I know exactly what you are saying but the rest of it has to be functional for somebody else. MARY BETH CASEY-Well it is functional and could be functional I just do not want the perception out there that we are looking for the Town of Queensbury to buy a hundred and eighty seven thousand dollar building just for voting machines. COUNCILMAN BOOR-It is not a hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars it is probably two hundred and fifty thousand. MARY BETH CASEY-But I do not want that perception out there because that would not be and never was intended to be its sole use. COUNCILMAN STEC-So, a use that would work with storing the voting machines would be record storage, I mean a compatible use. MARY BETH CASEY-The two bays, Jerry is here and they worked in, they set those machines for the November election out of that building and wasn't it wonderful? MR. JEROME -Yea, you mentioned it before and someone, there were problems in prior elections before I was a custodian and one of the reasons was I am sure they were working down stairs and as Mary Beth said that allowed a lot of things to happen. This past election there was not one complaint not one problem and that goes right back to you people to the leaders of the town and everything else and everybody was more than happy with what on with the election and one of the reasons was the people that did the work, myself included we were not falling over equipment and climbing. We had enough light to see what we were doing and it went fine. It was the best election Mary Beth told me it was the best election they ever had. In that regard it works. We definitely need enough room to work in with enough light, beyond that you guys got your own problems. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I want you to understand Mary Beth is I want you to have what you want, I just do not think that this is economically the best choice. MARY BETH CASEY-I am not arguing with that I just do not want the perception to be that we were going to be the only occupant ... COUNCILMAN STEC- Y ou are saying you are going to take 25% of the hundred and eighty-six thousand- dollar building. You do not want the word that we dropped two hundred thousand dollars to store twenty- seven machines. MARY BETH CASEY-Exactly, there is basement space there is more space up stairs we are fourteen hundred feet of whatever your square footage is. SUPERVISOR BROWER-The other thing to keep in mind too is that I think there is plenty of space for records storage; I do not believe that is going to be a problem. Actually in the future our record storage needs should be declining or being reduced because hopefully we will be going to CD rom and you can put mountains on CD rom and store it in a very small space. We do have a lot of historical records and things that we do have to shelve and shelves would have to be constructed in that building for efficient storage of material. Darleen was saying the other day that she could use more record storage space. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I think we need more of everything, Dennis, we have too many vehicles sitting out there. SUPERVISOR BROWER-They have done that for years, they have had vehicles outside for years I do not think it is a wise investment. They put all the vehicles they can in the garage. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Yea, ten and now count how many are outside. COUNCILMAN TURNER-The equipment that is sitting out there is equipment that they are not using, the other ten plow trucks are in the garage. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I spent about two hours with Rick today and Mike and we went through the whole place, and there is a lot of stuff that is out there that they do use. SUPT. OF BUILDING AND GROUNDS CHUCH RICE-The technology and the equipment that is purchased today is not like the technology and the equipment that they bought fifteen years ago. The equipment is touchier I do not care how big it is if it has electronics in it, it is going to get weather in it and over a period of time it is going to be impacted. Bodies are going to rust out and the cost of the equipment today vs. what it was fifteen years ago it is a large investment to be exposing. COUNCILMAN BOOR-A four hundred thousand dollar building is not that much when you are putting that many millions of dollars on equipment in, it is going to last that much longer. SUPERINTENDENT RICE-It is a long term investment. COUNCILMAN BOOR-We are a big community and I think Rick does make a good case for why it is important to have some equipment on the west side of the Northway. SUPERVISOR BROWER-We have talked about putting some pole barns out there, just cover the equipment. COUNCILMAN BOOR-The problem is that does not address the location of where the equipment is. If somebody lives in W.G.F. they drive up here get the truck over here and then drive back to W.G.F. SUPERVISOR BROWER-The idea ofa pole barn it would be in W.G.F. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I made a point of making sure I saw what this town owns and what it needs and we can do a lot better. SUPERVISOR BROWER-If we spend a lot of money sure we can. COUNICLMAN BOOR-It could be saving a lot of money if you leave those voting machines in an unheated room; we are not taking care of them. MARY BETY CASEY-The metal will break if it gets too cold. COUNCILMAN TURNER-What are we spending for heat right now? SUPERINTENDENT RICE-Noted he did a needs assessment back in 2000, for heat it was in the 2000 to 2400 annually. Since October to January 1st. I have gone through five hundred gallons of oil. COUNCILMAN STEC- The Historical Society needs an answer so you can decide what you are going to do with your current location that is the question that faces up tonight. MRS. VANDYKE-Our lease goes through March 14th, at which time if we are not going to renew we have to notify the landlord sixty days before that which makes it January 14th. We might be able to effect an agreement of going month by month but would prefer not to be in this position. If you are at a position to be able to indicate something to us it would be helpful we won't be offended either way. COUNCILMAN STEC- The discussion we had tonight I think Darleen's and Mary Beth's arguments are persuasive and I agree with what you are saying. I think for the time being until we decide what we ultimately want to do with that I agree the Town owning that might not be the best use of that building. If we say in the future we may sell the building fine, but for the time being I think it is adequate for some record storage and the voting machine storage I don't think it is appropriate for the Historical Society. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I don't have a problem with it in a way then you are saying that you want to put security in there are you going to pay for the security? MRS. V ANDYKE-I agree with the concept of taking a hard look at that and taking some type of a survey to determine how well we are utilizing the space that would probably be money very well spent. SUPERVISOR BROWER-The more we talk about it the more I see the possibility if we don't give you space in that building is there a separate heating system in that kitchen area? MR. RICE-It's all one boiler there are four zones. COUNCILMAN STEC-What's fuel oil nmning? MR. RICE-It's State Contract what the current rate is. COUNCILMAN STEC-If is hovers around a buck and a half and you only use a thousand gallons a heating season that's fifteen hundred bucks. Two thousand dollars for heat for the next few years until we acquire more space somewhere else and move the voting machines and record storage elsewhere. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Would hate to see us put an investment in there for the record storage the voting machines all you need is heat. COUNCILMAN TURNER-This is why I pulled the resolution didn't think this was a good place for it to go. It sounded great the more you sit here and talk about what's really there it just doesn't fit. COUNCILMAN BOOR-What about paper storage? COUNCILMAN TURNER-Paper storage would be fine. COUNCILMAN BOOR-What are you going to do for climate control? COUNCILMAN TURNER-We'll address that when we get the stuff in there. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I don't want to put a big investment in there. COUNCILMAN TURNER-I don't either. MR. RICE-You have to address those things before records go in. COUNCILMAN TURNER-That's why I wanted to sit down here and talk about this. COUNCILMAN STEC- The question tonight was what are we going to tell the Historical Society and I think we're saying sorry that this particular scenario isn't going to work right now. COUNCILMAN BOOR-The other question is if you are actually servicing stuff over there I'm not sure that you don't have to make these improvements. It's one thing if you are storing it its another thing if you are servicing the machines over there. COUNCILMAN STEC- There is language in there that says occupancy is defined and then there is a threshold. I would think that for the couple days a year that they are in there servicing setting up probably not this would be something to check into. MR. RICE-Should I be going after the security system and activating a security system? SUPERVISOR BROWER-You have a security system there. COUNCILMAN BOOR-It is not activated. SUPERVISOR BROWER-You would have to activate it I would say yes. MR. RICE-That means I will be paying three or four hundred dollars a year for a monitoring service. COUNCILMAN STEC-I think that it is small expense. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Need to take a hard look at this facility. MR. RICE-Spoke to the board regarding his budget for the Sunnyside Center. Has a seven-page budget page on one part it shows him as having monies that were approved in the 2003 budget as I go down into page five and six Sunnyside comes up here with no monies for anything. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Did you provide a budget for it? COUNCILMAN BOOR-Yes, we approved it. MR. RICE-I went into KVS to check thinking it was a clerical error and I'm not pulling up any monies. SUPERVISOR BROWER-We'll check it out tomorrow. COUNCILMAN STEC-Another future investment by the Town in a building or a portion of the building is going to be needed in the long term I can see us selling this station. MR. RICE-Spoke to the board regarding his plan that he created six years ago regarding building a site on Town property where the Town vehicles park explained concept to the board. Supervisor Brower-Adjourned meeting asked board members to visit site with him. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 63, 2003 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. Duly adopted this 9th day of January, 2003, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower Noes: None AbsentMr. Brewer No further action taken. Respectfully Submitted, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury