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2003-05-12 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MAY 12TH, 2003 MTG# 22 Res#244 7:00 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DAN STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN COUNSEL KATHY RADNER TOWN OFFICIALS DIRECTOR OF BUILDING & CODES, DAVE HATIN SUPERVISOR BROWER-Opened meeting. ADOPT-A-SIGN POST INITIATIVE - DENNIS BROWER Supervisor Brower noted the sign post initiative is a beautification effort that he would hope the Town would adopt. This would enable property owners who would like to brush down their signpost in their community or neighborhood then paint the signpost a dark green noted many of our older signposts are rusted. Noted he would buy half pints of dark green rust aluminum paint and give them a one-inch inexpensive paintbrush. It's similar to Adopt-A-Highway in the Adopt-A-Highway Program individuals, corporations, or non-profits can adopt a highway to cleanup trash on the roads. The Highway Department provides them with yellow or orange vests, provides them with a hard hat, and gives trash bags to fill with garbage. Then they are allowed to put the trash bags on the side of the road when they are done and they pick them up and bring them to the landfill free of charge. Spoke to the board regarding the letter they received form Highway Superintendent, Mr. Missita noting he opposed this due to liability reasonsnoting this is the reason for the waiver, which an interested property owner would come in read and sign noting they currently have approximately five or six inquiries. Asked the board their feeling on the project. Supervisor Brower spoke with Deputy Highway Superintendent Mr. Travis who recommended doing a contract similar to the Adopt-A-Highway Program, noting he also recommended unity of the color. Mr. Travis noted when they replace the signpost or put up a new signpost they will put up a galvanized post. Supervisor Brower-Any concerns? To prepare resolution for next regular meeting. RYANS' COUNTRY FARM - GEORGE RYAN Mr. Ryan spoke to the board regarding Ryan's Country Farm. Noted he had a fire it burned down went to the Town Assessor noting Steve Sutton offered a greenhouse noting it's not on the tax roll would like to buy it went to the Building Department was told to go ahead. Started working on it putting some wood on it about eight months into the project Mr. Hatin came over and said, no wood on a greenhouse. Put metal studs noting Mr. Hatin told him he needed a site plan review. Went for a site plan review was told that he really didn't need a site plan review you need site plan modification. Presented copy of law pertaining to greenhouses to board members noting Dave maybe misinterpreting what he wants the greenhouse for. Noted he has participated in a pilot program with the State Agriculture Department noting Senator Nancy Hoffman called him noting there is a grant available to Saratoga County Farm Bureau Members noting Warren County doesn't have a Bureau the reason he is here tonight is to show the board thelaw Temporary Greenhouse he would like to fall under that also asked the board to write a letter to the Congressman Betty Little on his behalf to see if he can get the grant that is available. Supervisor Brower-questioned if the zoning has been changed? Mr. Ryan-The zoning wasn't good before with what I was doing. Supervisor Brower-What was it before? Mr. Ryan-Suburban Residential. Mr. Ryan-With Suburban Residential with a site plan review you could have a farm with all classes. Councilman Brewer-Questioned what is the issue they are dealing with? Director of Building & Codes, Mr. Hatin-Mr. Ryan is under Court Order right now to comply with the Building Codes. Mr. Ryan-It is not a building. Supervisor Brower-Noted his understanding is that you don't have handicapped bathrooms you are asked to comply with handicapped bathrooms. Director of Building & Codes, Mr. Hatin- If the board wants he can prepare an order of how we got to where we are with George. Attorney Radner-Believes Judge Muller suggested tht Mr. Ryan come and discuss with you the possibility of changing a Town Code in some way. What Mr. Ryanjust showed you is just the definition of Executive Law of temporary greenhouses. It doesn't give you the rest of the law and it doesn't indicate whether temporary greenhouses are exempt from complying with Town Building and Codes, which I don't believe they are. There are a lot of times when property can be classified one way for purpose of Assessment and treated a different way for Planning and Zoning or Building & Codes. The laws are pretty clear that one body isn't bound by another body's determination. Dave has to make his decision based on mainly safety concerns. I believe what Judge Muller suggested is that if Mr. Ryan felt that the laws were unfair you're the folks who make the laws for our Town he should come to you if he wanted them changed. If Mr. Ryan wanted a trial he is welcomed to a trial and the Judge would set a trial. Supervisor Brower-Are these our laws or are they New York State Bilding Code? Councilman Boor-Local Laws can supercede he is asking if we want to supercede the State Laws by making an exception of changing something. Mr. Ryan- Asked the board to call someone regarding Agriculture Law noting the County has a good program. After further discussion Supervisor Brower thanked Mr. Ryan for updating the board regarding the situation. (No action taken.) FRANK KlNEKE'S REQUEST FOR DUMP/LANDFILL - DAVE HATIN Attorney Elan Cherney Representing Pro-Kraft Inc. & Frank Kineke Attorney Cherney-It goes back years and years to the late eighties. Recently we brought a site plan amendment an application to amend a site plan after spending two or three months trying to get it the way they wanted it they finally decided that in fact this isn't appropriate you should go to the Town Board and apply there for a dump. What we're trying to do is put back the wood it is essentially wood chips and wood debris. There is refuse there that shouldn't be there my client didn't' put it there it was put there over the years by various parties. We are applying to the board to put back into the ground the wood chips and smaller pieces of wood that are piled up there. I don't know if anybody has been by there I know Dave has been there numerous times. Councilman Boor-Where is the property? Attorney Cherney-On Big Bay Road, 415 Big Bay Road down Big Bay just past Curtis so that's why we're here. He doesn't want to take and has never intentionally taken any product from anywhere else he just wants 0 put the stuffback in the ground. I guess what happened here Dave came by saw some plies of the stuff there. To make a long story short Frank traded a lot to build a house on with a gentleman named Gross who has a business right there. Mr. Gross started digging there put a foundation in for a commercial structure found some refuse buried in the ground his Attorney contacted me they contacted Frank. Frank began to take out what was there to see what was there. I'm not quite sure how Dave found out about it but somewhere Dave came along maybe when they were building Dave saw things there and said wait a minute; he has some pictures there, what's this garbage you have to clean up the garbage. We've been to court three or four times already with Judge Muller essentially he said, if you make application to amend we can adjourn this we adjourned this a couple of times. Like I said we made an application to amend we thought the Planning Board would give us the approval after making seventeen copies and goin back and forth back and forth a couple of meetings they said come see the Town Board because it's inappropriate. There was a grant I think at that point back in eighty-nine to just put wood chips temporally stored on top of the property. In eighty-nine I've got a copy of the law you can actually believe it or not dump anything you wanted on your property as long as it was generated from the property. I think originally Frank's intention was to go around to various construction sites and grind up their wood or have them bring the wood in and bury it there but that never came about. The only thing there is the wood from the site that you can see now has very few trees the trees are all composed of what's sitting on top of the ground as well as some of the junk they have been working on taking away. All that stuff we know that has to go we met with Econ the other day they were out there we've got an agreement. I don't know there was like a car door somebody buried in the ground there are all sorts of thins. As a matter of fact Frank has pictures I guess some stuff was brought there even after this whole thing started they dumped a couple more piles of stuff there. All the bad stuff is going out we know that there is no attempt to put that back in the ground. It is essentially the wood, which is most of what it is there. If you go by the site you'll see that it's essentially big piles of wood with some debris in there and it has to be stiffed through and they are going through it all the time at great expense. Mr. Kineke-It's all from the trees that were on that property. Councilman Boor-Is this zoned residential? Attorney Cherney- No, light industrial he's had his business there for years. The last year and a half, two years, I guess he hasn't been there. You have what's his name? Mr. Kineke-Stranahan, Swinton was there before. Attorney Cherney-There was a gentleman named Swinton rented the place to Mr. Swinton he was there maybe six months, seven months he left then Stranahan came in about a year ad a half ago. Frank hasn't been at the property or had anything to do with the property other than renting it out for the past, what, like more than two years. Mr. Kineke- Three years. Attorney Cherney-Three years maybe. It doesn't matter we just want to try and put the wood back in the ground. Councilman Brewer-How long have the wood chips been there? Attorney Cherney-Since eighty-nine. Councilman Brewer-Why is it now that you are coming to us in two thousand three? Attorney Cherney-What has happened is the wood chips because of Dave going by he has the pictures there. The other things that were not suppose to be there and apparently were dumped. Mr. Kineke used to go out of town for most of the winter and apparently thought it be a good idea to bring things in there so things were brought in. The reason we're here is because once the things were unearthed and put on top of the ground I'm not even sure if we've got to be here but it seems to me that rather than try to put them in the ground and go ack and forth with Dave the better thing to do is come to the Town Board and say, looked we've got stuff that was in the ground that's on top of the ground we want to put the wood back into the ground rather than start putting on the ground and running back and forth between court. Once above the ground now we're burying it even though it was in the ground. Councilman Brower-Are these trees or wood chips? Attorney Cherney-They are chips. Mr. Kineke-...a grinding machine and we ground the trees and stumps that were on the property. Attorney Cherney-Frank you have some pictures. Councilman Brewer-There were full trees buried before? Councilman Boor-How many cubic yards roughly are we talking about? Mr. Kineke-A thousand fifteen hundred I don't know the exact amount. Attorney Cherney-There are a lot of test holes that were dug. Mr. Kineke- (Presented pictures to board) these are test holes we took a lot of test holes around and it shows that there is really nothing in the ground. Councilman Brewer-Arethey allowed to do that? Attorney Cherney-Now you can't put anything in the ground. Attorney Radner-That's why they are here they want ajunkyard permit because that's the only thing that would allow them to put it back in there. Attorney Cherney-You could in eighty-nine you can't now but it's out so I don't know. If you are replacing what was there but it's on top of the ground it was dug out. Mr. Kineke-The excavation that's going I mean it's.. Attorney Cherney-It's looks like it got bombed out there are about twenty or thirty giant holes as deep as thirty feet. Councilman Brewer-There are piles and piles of garbage out there. Attorney Cherney-The garbage is going. Mr. Kineke-We cleaned the garbage out ten truck loads of garbage has gone out to Buffalo god knows what they do with it there. Councilman Brewer-What about the tires, the truck parts, and all that stuff? Attorney Cherney-The tires Stranahan supposedly got out or are getting out. I think Stranahan part of his business is to go in and ollect tires when he gets a certain number then he disposes of them in Buffalo or Rochester or somewhere. The tires were never in the ground the tires were piled up on top of the ground. I think he is allowed to keep up to a thousand tires. Councilman Brewer-He has a permit to do that? Attorney Cherney- He doesn't need a town permit as far as I know. Councilman Brewer-Stranahan got any kind of a business permit or whatever to store tires and what not there? Director of Building & Codes, Mr. Hatin-He's under Court action right now along with Mr. Kieneke. Mr. Kieneke- That's his business is demolition and trucking. Councilman Boor-Wouldn't this render the property unusable for construction? In other words it's zoned industrial you wouldn't be able to build anything on it you would just bury wood there right? Attorney Cherney- According to Econ you can. Councilman Boor-I don't know how you could put a foundation in you'd have to be on solid ground. We're essentially taking industrial out of.... Superisor Brower-Is concrete still considered clean fill? Councilman Brewer-Concrete is. Attorney Cherney-... buried concrete and blacktop also they asked Frank a number of years ago that was dumped there some of that is sitting out. When you go there you see the concrete there. I don't know what it does as far as digging if he puts a foundation in where this isn't or takes it out as part of the deal and puts fill in Frank's not doing that. The garbage has to go we know that. Mr. Kineke-I was told by an Econ Officer that it was legitimate to bury it as long as it was mixed with dirt. Supervisor Brower-Can I assume title hasn't transferred yet? Mr. Kineke-Pardon me? Supervisor Brower-Who owns the land right now? Mr. Kineke-I own the land. Trying to...a piece of the land to Joe Gross so he.. joins the property...build a building on the back part. Supervisor Brower-Do you have anymore... Attorney Cherney-That's the jest of it. Director of Building & Codes, Mr. Hatin-How this originally started was Joe ross who was in negotiations with Mr. Kineke I have a letter to confirm that and I'll read it to you called me when he started finding things that he was told weren't buried there. In fact, Mr. Kineke denied anything was buried on the property. Through the negotiations of Mr. Kineke, and Mr. Gross, Mr. Gross became concerned because he was starting to find debris and not just wood chips. Negotiations between Mr. Kineke and Mr. Gross apparently broke down so I was called by Joe Gross who was concerned that he found a landfill on the property even though he had been told by Mr. Kineke it wasn't there. Every time he dug a little further Mr. Kineke said that's all that's buried there they're is no more. That phone call to me prompted me a visit to the site in March of 2002. What came out of that was the following letter and I'll read it to you just so you understand. March 14th, 2002 Dear Frank, It has been brought to my attention that your negotiations with Joe Gross to remove all garbage, and rubbish, and other debris from the property at 415 Big Bay Road appears to be at a standstill and the cleanup may not take place through Joe Gross. This letter is to inform you that if you and Joe Gross cannot work on agreement to remove all garbage from the property to this office's satisfaction this office will commence an action against you for illegal dumping through the Town of Queensbury Court System and will require the property to be cleaned up and possible fines laid against you for the violation. This Department has also notified Department of Environmental Conservation of the situation at your property and they may also be contacting you regarding enforcement action. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me otherwise I will look forward to the problem being resolved in the next thirty days with a plan to place and reclaim all property and remove all garbage from the property at this office's satisfaction. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation. Councilman Boor-What's the date of that letter? Mr. Hatin-March 14th, 2002. The excavation was started and then it was stopped. That prompted another letter of July 3rd, 2002 again; this is addressed to Mr. Kineke. July 3rd, 2002 Dear Mr. Kineke, In reference to a large amount of junk and discarded automobile parts and other debris located on Bay Road the old Procraft site which I believe has been brought to the property by American Tree Service...store any old junk vehicles of the old Procraft property. I also visited the rear of the property where Bill Threw had started to screen operation and noticed that no activity has taken place and I have not heard from you since our last conversation. As you are well aware you must address the situation whether you do it or Bill Threw or some contractor but the issue must be resolved and debris removed from the site. If I see no progress in the future it will give me no choice but to take Town Board action against you for the property and the Town Board could authorize me to hire contractors to abate the situation and bill the expenses to your property. Mr. Hatin- That was because the property sat still from March to July and with no action taken place. I have pictures that were taken back at that time April 24th, that show what debris...uncovered site. Mixed in with the wood chips is a large amount of garbage and construction debris. Not just wood chips that came from the property when they cleared the property there would be nothing other than wood chips. The only odd part of this is they claimed that they did this in 1989; in 1989 they came to the Town for approval to do a stump grinding operation in this area. They had asked for an approval to grind on site and remove from site that was not done. If you look at the amount of wood chips the piles that Mr. Kineke showed you pictures of you'll find that they don't equal the amount of wood that would come off that property they are a much larger amount of debris. If you also look you'll see there is large amount of garbage and other debris mixed in with the wood chips that were buried in the ground. Smething I should say right now is there was also another proceeding against Mr. Kineke in 1997 for the same issue illegal dumping. Mr. Kineke and I met on the site at that time he was well aware of what was going on. I have the pictures here that show a large hole in the ground about a hundred and fifty foot long by about thirty feet wide. If you look at what's in here you'll see there is brush, construction debris from construction sites. Mr. Kineke was also a contractor building homes. There is a boat in here a wooden boat and other debris that is consistent with construction sites. The only access to this property was through Mr. Kineke's front drive lanes both of which have gates on them. There is no way somebody could have drove on this property without Mr. Kineke's knowledge or employee's knowledge. There were gates for access that control access and I can verify through my own sight that these gates were closed after working hours. Councilman Brewer-Dave what about the road next to it? Mr. Hatn-That was built last year. That road did not exist until last year that was woods. We also are willing to provide some evidence in court that Mr. Kineke had knowledge of what was being dumped there. I won't get into now because it is part of the court action but we have proof that he had knowledge of what was being dumped there. As you can see a lot of the items that are buried in the debris are from construction sites. We found oil filters that are consistent with heavy equipment that Mr. Kineke owns. We found tires that would be consistent with equipment that he owns. This stuff was buried on site with the wood chips mixed in. My feeling is the Town Board number one you can't authorize him by our subdivision regulations right now to bury this stuff on site because he is subdividing off this piece of property. Our subdivision regulations do not allow the burying of any material on site and it did not back then either back in 1988. Councilman Brewer-Is this after the Queensbury Forest problem? Mr. atin-No. It was in the law then. We weren't aware that the contractors were doing it and we put them on notice when we found it in the subdivision regulations after the Queensbury Forest issue. It was in the Ordinance then that's what we used to enforce it against Joe Amoriti that he couldn't bury in a subdivision that's how we made him excavate all those home sites. The bottom line is we have material that is foreign to the site was brought in to the site now Mr. Kineke is asking to legally bury it on the site. I would request the Town Board deny his action so we can move forward with our court proceedings. There has been no work on the site since January of this year nothing has been excavated. Councilman Brewer-Even if we were going to grant him the right to do that we would still have to have public hearings and all that anyway. Mr. Hatin- Correct. I can tell you right now that Joe Gross is against anything to be buried on the site if he is going to be the potential buyer he's told me that himself We are currently due back in court May 19th, for a trial. Supervisor Brower-If the board refuses to change the status of the property what status is this land? Mr. Hatin-Right now we're going trial May 19th to prove the violation we will pursue it further if we have to with a court order. We have been stalled for the last three months because of Mr. Cherney attempts to get before the Planning Board which I told Craig Brown that this did not belong before the Planning Board. Craig finally made that ruling and now we have the application before the Town Board. Councilman Brewer-We haven't seen any formal application have we? Mr. Hatin-I don't know if they submitted any formal application they submitted a letter with a drawing I believe. I don't know if there is formal applications for a dump per say. I think basically what we're being asked to do here is save Mr. Kineke some money from burying....materials which shouldn't have been buried there on site in the first place and that's my feeling about ths whole thing. Mr. Kineke was well aware of what was going on with his property. He had total access. He had partners his partners represented him before the Town....application a stump grinding operation his signature is on the application letting them act as this agent so he was well aware of what was going on with this site. I find it hard to believe that Mr. Kineke owning a piece of property like that... .that property and have no idea of what's being buried because holes had to be excavated. That fill was removed from site and brought somewhere so this illegal material could be brought in to bury that's the only way it could happen. Councilman Brewer-I guess my concern would be how did all of this stuff get here and not anybody ever see it? Mr. Hatin-We had several complaints from ex-employees that Mr. Kineke was burying material on site. We asked those complainants for the names and to meet us out there and show us specifically where they were talking so we could order him to excavate. They woul never give their name and they refused to meet us on site. We go out there the site was covered and filled we had no way to prove anything even for a search warrant. I needed basically a deposition or something from somebody who was making a complaint so we could get a search warrant I didn't have that to do that. I did in 1997 and I can pass these pictures around did a compliant and we were out there on a surprise visit and did find exactly what shows in these photos. That's the one time deal that we did catch Mr. Kineke illegal burying. Mr. Kineke was on site that day I went there he followed me out to the site and complained he couldn't possibly know how this got here but they had to drive by his building to get there. There was no other access other than the gate around his building. Councilman Boor-Mr. Cherney are you the Attorney on record for the trial? Attorney Cherney-There is no trial. Councilman Boor-Maybe if it goes to court. Attorney Cherney-It's not a trial on May 19th. Mr. Hatin-Itsent down for a hearing on May 19th. Attorney Cherney-The bottom line is there was other access to this property. Frank's out of town for five months he's asking to put the wood back in the ground. I don't know what all this other stuff has to do with anything. We said from the beginning obviously there are other things on the property that shouldn't be there and they are being taken out. We have met with Econ we were there last week with them. We have a deal to clean it up by I guess it's the end of July to make sure all the non-wood is out of there. That's not even the issue here Frank didn't' bury anything. The woods all generated on the site I haven't seen any piece of any evidence from anybody that there is wood brought in from anywhere else including or heard other than Dave Hatin say that there is wood brought in from anywhere else. You can see it's a heavily treed area and his area has no trees. Unless they have evidence or somebody comes in and they are going to prove that somebody brought ood in there. Attorney Radner- Y ou had an application before the Planning Board to grind stumps that were brought to the site now you are telling us that never happened. Attorney Cherney-That's correct that never happened. Mr. Hatin-For the record that did happen I did the site inspection the machine was there and the stump grindings were going on. Attorney Cherney- Where was the wood from? Mr. Hatin-It doesn't matter where the wood is from. The fact that you just made statement that it never happened I physically witnessed your machine and an activity going on. It's all from construction sites he was clearing. Councilman Boor-It's a mute point because I wouldn't allow you to bury it even it came from the site. The notion that somebody is going to actually physically separate this stuff is as ludicrous.... Attorney Cherney- Separate what stuff? Councilman Boor-Separate the junk from the wood that came on the site. Attorney Cherney-They've been doing it for months. Councilman Boor-And you would pay smebody to do that. Attorney Cherney-It cost him over a hundred thousand to do it. Councilman Boor-Do yourself a favor have it disposed of properly. Attorney Cherney-It's not that cheap to do. Councilman Boor-We know why it's being done people take the least expensive route and that's what we're looking at is people taking the least expensive route here you got caught the bottom line. Mr. Kineke-I would like you to come down there tomorrow. Councilman Boor-I don't want to come down there. I don't think I have to come down there. Mr. Kineke-Mr. Hatin says we haven't done anything we've been working on it. Councilman Boor-I wouldn't allow anything to go with what I heard today. This notion that it's appropriate to do what's been done there is crazy. It shouldn't be done anywhere. It shouldn't be done in industrial property. It shouldn't be done in residential. It shouldn't be done in commercial. It shouldn't be done anywhere other than where it's licensed to be done it's not licensed there. Mr.Kineke-1 was told by an Econ Officer that it was legal to put it in there he even gave me a piece of paper. Councilman Boor-Bring that to court because that will be real helpful. Attorney Cherney-We're not out for trial what we're asking to do is put the wood and wood chips back into the ground that was generated on the property. Councilman Boor-There is no way for us to ascertain what's been generated on the property and what hasn't and I'll be danmed if we're going to have a Town employee out there trying to figure it out. Attorney Cherney-He's made certain statements without any evidence whatsoever that wood was brought in. Councilman Boor-I'm telling you how I feel about it. Attorney Cherney-I know how you feel about it. Councilman Boor-You came here and I'm giving you my opinion. I'm trying to be polite so you don't waste more time. Attorney Cherney-I'm not arguing with you about your opinion. What I'm saying is he's making statements and he's made statements before without any evidence whatsoevr that wood was brought in. Councilman Boor-That's his job. Attorney Cherney-To make statements without any evidence? Mr. Hatin-I can back them up court. Councilman Boor-The bottom line is you should take it where it's appropriate before a Judge and let him determine it. If you are confident go for it. Attorney Cherney-That's not what the issue is. The issue is whether we will be allowed to re-bury the wood chips that were generated on the property. Councilman Boor-Not ifl have my say, no. Attorney Cherney-Okay, that's your say. Supervisor Brower-I don't know how board members feel. I'm not inclined to change the status of that property it's light industrial now. Councilman Stec-I'm not either. Councilman Brewer-Like Roger said, I don't know how you determine what came from the property and what didn't and how you separate it. Mr. Kineke-It's is screened there are men picking the garbage off of the stuff that's being screened. Mr. Hatin-By the way when he makes that statement they are picking he garbage out of the grindings that were being sifted and separating it into two separate piles a grind pile and a garbage pile they were mixed together. Mr. Kineke- When the machine digs it out of the ground they don't separate it. If there is a pile of garbage in someplace and there is dirt around it and wood chips here it gets all three. It goes on a screen and it comes off a screen the men separate it. Supervisor Brower-How long have you owned the property Mr. Kineke? Mr. Kineke-I've owned it since the mid eighties. Whenever I buried anything I checked with Econ. There was a boat there I owned one boat in my life as a partner of a boat in Florida that was brought in by someone else. I had two gates on that property the sides of that property were opened. I put a burm in there to try and stop people coming from the next-door neighbor Mr. Cook's property. I have a great bank from keeping them from coming over people just come in and dump stuff. I found about thirty or forty mattresses in there atone time. I found old garage doors in there, bicycles, car parts. Councilman Boor-Do you have any copies of police reports? Did you file any? Mr. Kineke- The police don't do anything. Councilman Boor-Did you file any? Mr. Kineke-Excuse me I'm talking. When another excavator went into my place and stole over a thousand yards of topsoil he was seen doing it. I called the State Police and they did absolutely nothing. Councilman Boor-Did you file a report? Mr. Kineke- Yes. Councilman Boor-That's what I asked you file reports when you see people on your property. Mr. Kineke-I've never seen people on my property. When people come and dump they come on the weekends or come at night. I can't be there guarding twenty-four hours a day. Mr. Hatin-Can I just make a statement? I don't know of anybody that would dig a hole on Mr. Kineke's property to bury something and take the fill and move it from the property and that's what happened here. The holes were dug they were filled with construction debris and ten leveled over. I don't think a person from off site would do that. Mr. Kineke-When I was in Florida I'll take a guess ninety-one, ninety-two for the Winter a motel was torn down and that stuff was buried on my property and it was taken away. I had no knowledge it was going there it was between one of my employees and another contractor and they dumped that stuff there and I had it taken it away. Councilman Boor-I don't know what to tell you I'm serious I'm flabbergasted. Supervisor Brower-Mr. Kineke you were asked to be heard we have heard you. At this point the board is not inclined to taken action, but do appreciate you coming in. (No action taken) WEST GLENS FALLS FIRE COMPANY ROOF REPLACEMENT - JOHN CARPENTER Mr. Carpenter spoke to the board regarding the status of the roof noting it is out to bid. The contractors are coming tomorrow they are going to inspect the roof to see if there are any other things that they see that aren't on the prints. Supervisor Brower-How many bidders do you anticipate. Mr. Carpenter-Five or six. Councilman Brewer-Is they're a time frame? The reason I want to talk about this is the money part of it. Mr. Carpenter-For us to stay out of the competitive wage bidding process is for our contract to be amended with the amount of money or for us as a Fire Company to get the okay to go to the bank borrow the money which will be paid back by the Town. Councilman Brewer-When you open the bid how long is the bid good for thirty days? Mr. Carpenter-I think so. Councilman Brewer-Need to get going on this. I wanted to prepare us with that so we know what we're doing with the roof. Supervisor Brower-Recommended that the board enable them to borrow the money noting it has to be done by resoution. Mr. Carpenter-As soon as bids are open will copy to Comptroller Hess. DISCUSSION REGARDING WEST GLENS FALLS BRUSH TRUCK Mr. Carpenter spoke to the board regarding the existing truck that they would like to replace. Asked the board for the money that was promised to them last year that they didn't get to purchase the truck. The brush truck is a great truck for a brush unit. Supervisor Brower-Is this a self-contained unit. Mr. Carpenter-Yes. Supervisor Brower-What is the existing unit? Mr. Carpenter-The existing unit has a hundred and fifty gallon per minute pump on it. Supervisor Brower-Are you keeping the old truck? Mr. Carpenter-It will be converted out of our own money to an EMS vehicle out of budgeted money that we have now. Supervisor Brower-Questioned what was the original replacement date of this truck? Mr. Carpenter-2004. The existing truck we have now is in 1985 noting that the truck at that time cost $65,000. We are doing this basically ourselves between Arrowhead, and the company and us were buying the skid unit from. We are trying to keep the cost down and business in our area. It's a bare minimum truk all it has is air conditioning. Supervisor Brower-Questioned why they want to expedite this? Mr. Carpenter-Is concerned with the houses that are built on the mountain right now. Supervisor Brower-Questioned if the board was inclined to advance the forty but not come up with the other forty would they borrow the balance? Mr. Carpenter-How would we pay for it? (2nd tape) Asked when would he know about the financing? Supervisor Brower-Would probably have some information for you by next week. (No action taken) DISCUSSION HELD- RECREATION COMMISSION - DOUG IRISH Mr. Irish spoke to the board noting at the last Recreation Commission Meeting voted to approve the hiring of a consultant for the Recreation Center Project with the College. On the recommendation from Comptroller Hess and Town Counsel they are going to provide a resolution for the next meeting. We have asked him to help prepare a capital budget prepare the bid specs for an architect and help us choose an architect for the project. In order to put the resolution before the board the board has to establish a capital project for this if it's in anticipation of a capital project. Since we are anticipating a project out of this Henry thought it would be good to establish a capital reserve fund for this. I have checked with Henry about the bidding process on this as long as it doesn't or exceed we don't expect it to exceed twenty thousand dollars. His portion of this is for the calendar year 2003. We do expect to put out to bid the second, third, phase of the consulting professional services which would be aproject manager that portion of the project it's not part of this consulting fee. Councilman Brewer-Do we have a deal worked out for the land and everything? Mr. Irish-We are still moving forward with the college on that. We have plenty of land in the Town of Queensbury that we already own. Councilman Brewer-Don't things change if you move the location? Mr. Irish-No. The last meeting we had with the college the only issue that I believe is going to be pretty easy to take care of is the question of their cost of 0 & M. We initially had some concerns that they were going to have some kind of input into the administration of the building telling us how to use it. They have absolutely no desire to tell us what we want to have done in our building. Councilman Brewer-We are going to need someone to run this building. Mr. Irish-Our department will move down to that building from here, which will free up, space here. Councilman Stec-One thing I would like to see included down there is adequate room for th seniors. Mr. Irish-We had a meeting with the seniors the other night noting they are looking for designated time we have no problem with that will be working with the seniors to develop their program. Recommended putting this out for permissive referendum put it to the public and let them vote on it. Supervisor Brower-I like the idea of being a partner with ACC, questioned how this is going? Mr. Irish-It is going well. We've had three meetings we actually pushed this next meeting back the focus now is on what is going to cost them for 0 & M. We won't know that until we get a capital project in place and then we look at some other facilities that are already built that can give us an idea of what those costs are. Councilman Brewer-Prefers that the Town of Queensbury has first option on any time and what ever is left over somebody can choose. If the Town is buying and paying for it want our citizens to reap the benefit from it. Supervisor Brower-Asked for a detail explanation of what the consultant ill do. Mr. Irish-He will help us prepare a capital budget for the project will determine what we will need for a capital budget. He will help us prepare the bid specifications for the architect and will help us pick the architect. The Commission has met with this gentleman they didn't feel the need to put it out to bid since it didn't meet the threshold. On Monday a presentation will be made at meeting regarding project. Supervisor Brower spoke to the board regarding the open space presentation noted his concern with redundancy. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEEETING RESOLUTON NO. 244, 2003 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. Duly adopted this 12th day of May, 2003, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower Noes: None AbsentNone On motion the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully Submitted, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury