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1992-10-05 TOWN BOARD MEETING OCTOBER 5, 1992 7:01 P.M. MTG.#96 RES. 537-549 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Supervisor Michel Brandt Councilman Betty Monahan Councilman Susan Goetz Councilman Nick Caimano Councilman Pliney Tucker Attorney Paul Dusek Supervisor Brandt -Opened the Meeting PUBLIC HEARlNG-QUEENSBURY QUAKER ROAD SEWER DISTRICT NOTICE SHOWN Mr. Mike Shaw-Director of Wastewater-What we have here is a proposed benefit tax for the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer Dist. This would replace the current sewer rent law that we have now for capital construction the 0 & M portion of the budget would be received quarterly just the way it is received now. The benefit tax proposal is quite a bit different than what we have now, this proposal is based on points. Each parcel in the Quaker Road Sewer Dist. would have a class and that class would have a specific amount of points. In this case the points would be worth $123.00 per point, that is calculated by this years budget. What I will do is I will go down through the classes here and tell you the points and kind of outline how this works and then after that if anyone has any questions we can go ahead and answer them. Ok, looking down through here Class A would be a dwelling unit a residential dwelling unit, on one acre or less that would have three points that would be $369.00. Class B would be a vacant residential and have 1 point per acre. If you have less than an acre that would be that partial of a point. If you had 50% of an acre an half an acre would be 50% of a point. B one is vacant common area townhouse and condo's up to one acre per dwelling unit what this is here, because we have some townhouses in the sewer district were allowed to cluster, but did not receive the benefit of the full one acre but they, because of the townhouses having green space required by the town we gave them a one acre per dwelling unit so they would not have to pay additional monies based on residential fees. The apartment multiplier would be one. If you had an apartment house it is classified as residential it would be paying three points, if the apartment house had two apartments in it, it would have three points plus one point for each apartment it would be a total of five points. The next classification we would have would be under residential and commercial classifications, see exempt from hookup, per acre. Now there are some parcels within the Quaker Road Sewer Dist. that have been exempt from hookup they would pay 20 points or 20% of a point per acre. D one would be landlocked or deed restricted. They would pay the additional 20% per acre. Wetlands, would be a D two classification and they would pay 20% per acre. Commercial classifications, ok, vacant land per acre would be three points per acre per commercial classifications. Commercial occupied up to ten acres would pay six points per acre over ten acres would pay nine points per acre plus commercial pays on water consumption also. A two hundred and forty gallon daily average based on annual audit consumption would be three points. That is basically the program. Is there any questions? Supervisor Brandt - I will open this to the public right away and if anybody has any comments, questions, whatever please come forth, have a chair, state your name for the record and talk to us about it. Anybody want to join us? Dr. George Wiswall-My name is George Wiswall, my wife and I live at 68 Glenwood Avenue. We come seeking relief from this what we consider a very unfair situation with our sewer assessment, which I understood is going to be a tax. We have gone along with it for four years I have been here and tried a couple of times but I did not really do any good, I don't expect it will tonight. We have land which is essentially farm land with a small farm. It has never been laid out for building lots except where we built for ourselves. It is used now, it has been used to raise corn for farmers, used now for hay for a farmer. We pasture some for a couple of horses we keep it mowed the pasture here on the back end. We got quite a lot of woodchucks back there but they have been killed off by the coyotes, so we have to get a new crop of woodchucks. It is not laid out for building lots in anyway. When the sewer came through it ended in front of the house that Dr. O'Connor lives in next to the animal hospital on the west side of the animal hospital. The only part of our property that touches the sewer line or is accessible to the sewer line is a lot that is 180' frontage between Westwood and the Mrs. Fairfield's house. We have all hooked onto the sewer line as we had to and ... There is 23 and a fraction acres back there that is farm land and I do not see that you got any place that I wouldn't be opposed to paying something like this half a point per acre but, we paid in the last, I did not bring my figures with me, but, in the four years since the sewer gone through on this particular piece of land we paid $18,000 sewer assessment. I do not think that we really were treated fairly when they drew these sewer lines and I was not smart enough to do anything about it. I considered hiring legal advice for what we should do but I am not here with a lawyer tonight and I will not be with a lawyer because I know it would be fruitless and would cost me a lot of money. I have if you would like to know what I am talking about I have had this property surveyed a couple of years ago and I brought a map for each of you. (map placed on file) This is the present sewer line and that is where it ends right there. Councilman Goetz-How are you zoned? Dr. Wiswall-Pardon? Councilman Goetz-How is the land zoned? Dr. Wiswall-When we decided that we wanted to build an animal hospital and home, there was no zoning in the Town of Queensbury. Councilman Goetz-But, how are you zoned now? Because I remember you came in Dr. Wiswall-I will get to that. Councilman Goetz-OK. Dr. Wiswall-Wait until I pass out the map. So, ...the farm became available and we thought it would be a good place to build so people would not be complaining about barking dogs and...from the animal hospital. The land is zoned residential on that side and I think it's MR5 or ...it's the same as Councilman Goetz-As Westwood? Dr. Wiswall-As Westwood. Councilman Goetz-Because I remember you came in and asked to have it zoned that way, when the 88 zoning ordinance was being done. Dr. Wiswall-Well, you know they changed it around two or three times since I have been there. The last time that they were going to change it was '88 you said. It was going to be zoned one acre residential. The property directly in the back of us on the north is one acre residential and I wrote a letter to the board whoever was doing the zoning and I thought it would be better to have it the same as Westwood with MR5 I guess. They changed it then when they were changing the zoning. Councilman Goetz-The point I would like to make is that it could be, you could sell it at some point as a Multi Family Residential. Dr. Wiswall-Well, naturally I could sell it, we have had many opportunities to sell it. Councilman Goetz-Then the sewer would be a good thing, if that should happen. Dr. Wiswall-Yes, naturally. We have already paid $18,000 toward this sewer project and it goes on. This all depends on how long we live. When we give up there is no doubt it will be sold and it will be developed, I guess most of you people just think well, what a great development that will make. Now, you know what we are doing there, we are farming it we are producing oxygen by grass and trees and everything, for the whole neighborhood. We are producing a nice open space, Betty Monahan loves it, you would like to see it forever. I just saw Joyce come in, Joyce Thompson suggested several years ago when we were out jogging one day that we give it to the town, it would make a nice park, and call it Wiswall Park. So I told Joyce, you do not mind me telling you this, Ms. Joyce Thompson-No I think it is a wonderful idea maybe we will encourage you. Dr. Wiswall-Joyce that is worth a million dollars we would not sell it for a million dollars we have opportunities close to that. I said Joyce, you put in a million and we will put the land in and we will buy that out through the wetlands and woods out through there and we will call it the Wiswall Thompson Park, gee that shut her up. Why do you want to look at land like that, as a development? That is the first thing Mike said when he knew where the land was. Gee, that would make beautiful development. Well, let him develop the mountain, lets have a little open space down here. I do not know what we are going to do with it? We do enjoy it and we are going to pay the tax on it and we are going to pay the sewer tax on it and we are going to keep it mowed and looking neat. I am trying to talk with Paul, I am trying to get that Woodvale Road straightened out that is a disgrace, to have a main traveled road in the shape such as the ditches and, I maintain my side of it but the other side is ....that is beside the point. I would like to see, give us some sort of a break on this, let us pay what you do for landlock property we could landlock it in a hurry sell that lot that fronts on Glenwood Avenue, then there would be no access to the sewer line, unless you extend the sewers, so we do not want to do that. Councilman Monahan-Doc, does the sewer stop right where you got this red line on this map? Dr. Wiswall-Yes. Right directly in front of Dr. O'Connor's house. Councilman Monahan-Mike, in the sewer district map, is all that land the twenty three acres included in this sewer district even though it does not come out to where the sewer line is... Mr. Mike Shaw-That is correct, that full piece of twenty three acres is in the sewer district. UNKNOWN-Why Mr. Mike Shaw-I do not know, that was, I cannot answer that, I did not draw the boarder lines. Councilman Monahan-I would say then Doc has a right to tell you to extend that sewer, you are charging him for land that isn't serviced. Councilman Caimano- It would seem like it would end with the most that he would be charged for would be those lots that are fronting on Glenwood Avenue and not what goes down Woodvale. Mr. Mike Shaw-The district boarder was set by the Town Board at that time when the district was formed. Councilman Monahan-That maybe but on the other hand when the sewer was put in the sewer line was certainly was not put in to service that area. Councilman Tucker-As you look at the map though Betty, the twenty three acres can be served from the lot that is next to Westwood Subdivision. Councilman Monahan-But, only if you get an easement through that lot Pliney you cannot figure that way. Councilman Tucker-Wait a minute, it is all one piece, there is just a fence there. See it. He has got a fence there but it is all the same piece is it not Doc? The one next to Westwood Subdivision that is part of the twenty three acres right? Dr. Wiswall- Yes. But we sold off that front lot 200' the rest of it would be landlocked. Councilman Tucker-Right. It would not be accessible. Dr. Wiswall-Is that what you want me to do? Councilman Tucker-No, No Dr. Wiswall- This is my wife Polly...is that what you want us to do or what? Supervisor Brandt -George, we certainly did not create the sewer district, but Betty was on the Board that did. Dr. Wiswall- Y ou did not create a lot of problems you got, but we got problems. Supervisor Brandt-I am not trying to duck the problem, the problem is very extensive the whole sewer district is a problem and I talked to the planners today about it. We have to look at what we are going to do in the sewer district we did not create the problem we will have to solve it though. I do not know the answer to the problem but we have some planner aboard and this is going to be one of our priorities is to look at this whole sewer district and how we are going to get it to pay its way and get it affordable to the people that live in it. The sewer tax is a very high tax it is a very high tax for business it is a very high tax for residential, no question of that. It was an ill conceived district in my opinion. I do not think we should have built it but that is too bad, it is built it is there and under the law we have to charge for it. Can we do something different, I think we can, I think if we do a little more planning we do higher densities where we have the sewer district we can get the cost more affordable to people within the district. We are having our problems getting our planning group together to work and function on these problems that has been one or our priorities from the beginning. I think we are finally getting there and perhaps we can address it. Perhaps we can address it correctly in that next planning session and maybe we can take care of your needs. As it stands today we published a sewer tax and we have to go with the public hearing as published and we certainly can start looking at what you are saying in the future. I do not think that this Town Board wants to tell you what to do or what not to do with your land, that is your business, on the other hand the sewer district did force development, there is no question of that I do not know what to do about it, that is all hind sight at this point. Councilman Monahan-Doc, have you checked the new, what your tax is going to be under this new plan? Dr. Wiswall-I had it all figured out and I forgot to bring... Councilman Monahan-Well it is down. Mr. Shaw- I have that number in front of me. Councilman Caimano-How much is it? Councilman Monahan-How much did it go down? Have you got the old one? Mr. Shaw-Last year, prior year tax he paid on that parcel that he is talking about he paid $4500, actually $4,502.80 this year he is going to receive I say a credit, but, it would be $1,595.08 credit. This coming year he will be paying $2,907.00 so he is getting a credit of almost $1600. Councilman Tucker-That is on the 23.15 acres Mr. Shaw-Right Councilman Monahan-On that lot. Supervisor Brandt-What is the tax again, total? Mr. Shaw-The total tax for.. .for 23 acres on vacant residential under this proposed system is $2,907. Dr. Wiswall-It would be one fifth of that if it was ... Supervisor Brandt-.2 Mr. Shaw-See when, these classes here I just didn't arbitrary put these class to lots, these classes came through the Assessor's Office exactly what the Assessors class the pieces of parcels in the district, that is not just something I can just change. Councilman Monahan-And how have they got Doc's land classified. Mr. Shaw-It is classified as vacant residential. Councilman Monahan-Doc I think you maybe ought to see the Assessor on that and check her classification. Dr. Wiswall-I talked with Mike and he told me to see the Assessor and she decided that the only body that could change it would be the Town Board, I have talked with the Assessor about it. I did find out through having this surveyed that the tax map gives us a half acre more than the surveyor does and that is because W oodvale was never taken as a right of way and our land goes very close to the pavement there on W oodvale so we are paying a sewer tax on land that is the roadside of W oodvale and the town uses it. Mr. Oscar Sundberg-I live, I have land on the Meadowbrook Road and I am almost in the same predicament as Dr. Wiswall but I have 10 acres, 9 and a half acres. I have been trying to get my tax lowered, he is lucky in one respect that he has got the land to sell, ...has been designated as wetland but the thing is he paid $4,000 in taxes on this and Dr. Wiswall-It has been as high as five in one year Mr. Sundberg-But if he wants to build a house out in back that is probably 600 feet from the road...to the back of your lot? Dr. Wiswall-A thousand feet Mr. Sundberg-He has got to put his own money into building that thing, the sewer district is not going to put that in for him even though he has put all these thousands of dollars into the sewer tax, he has still got to pay his own installation fee...which is doubly unfair. I just wanted to bring that up. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else that would like speak on this, come on right up. Mr. Bob Merrill-I am Merrill Automotive, I guess I have been in violation I have not hooked to the sewer Glen Street. I have an estimate here of hooking up $7,000. I wrote a letter to the Board Councilman Goetz-We have a separate public hearing on this application. Mr. Bob Merrill-Oh, do you, I am sorry Councilman Goetz-It is next after this. Ms. Marilyn Tallon-9 Meadowbrook Road-I just have a couple of questions about this, if! have 1.2 acres how everything is fixed points? Mr. Shaw-Ok, it is residential I have not got your parcel sitting in front of me but you would pay three points for the first acre you have a house on 1.2 acres, ok, for the first acre you would be paying three points and then you would pay a portion, that would be vacant residential you pay one point per acre for the other parcel. Ms. Tallon- .2 Mr. Shaw-.2 goes into one it would be 20% ofa point. The total of it off the top of my head would be approximately $396 dollars for the whole parcel Ms. Tallon-I wondered too at this time is it too late if we ever needed to break it into two lots, that is one of my questions?..! think there are separate lot sizes that we have now, is it too late to break that up? Mr. Shaw-That is something you would have to ask the Assessor's Office, all my information as far as lot sizes and classification comes through the Assessors, I am not sure of that question. Ms. Tallon-So, are they still, I am sorry I am quite green at this. You are going to be taxed solely on the size and also on the assessment as well. Mr. Shaw-No assessment is used any longer for residential, no assessment and no water consumption that was previously used, for capital construction. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else. Unknown-Do you have to pay sewer tax on a vacant lot? Why? Supervisor Brandt-Well, the theory is in any special district that if the district has to serve the land then even if it is vacant there is a certain benefit to that land, whether it is a water district or a sewer district that is the theory. You could debate that a whole lot, but, in effect when they hooked up the lines, the lines had to be sized for all of the land so that anyone in the district could hook in if they chose to the lines had to be sized for that. So, that's the theory. Unknown-That is the theory but you are not receiving that service it is there but a vacant lot is not using it. Councilman Tucker-But, the theory is that it increased the value of your land as it went by it. Supervisor Brandt-I hate like hell to sit here and try and justify what was done in the creation of this district, but, I am going to try and tell you my understanding of what was done that is all. I am not going to tell you if it was good or bad this is what it is and that is what we have to face. It is our job under the law to assess a tax as it was set up. This was a change in that assessment system in the way the tax is calculated and that is what we are really talking about. Unknown-You are being taxed for a service which you are not receiving. Supervisor Brandt -You certainly can say that, that is certainly one Unknown-That has been taken to court and the Judge ruled you cannot tax a person for a service for which he is not receiving. Supervisor Brandt-The problem is I think, if you asked to receive the service you will receive the service and I think that is the difference. If we cannot provide that service then you cannot be taxed for it. I think that, again, I am not a lawyer, and that is my common sense approach to it. Mr. Sundburg-I agree with you on that part as long as you are going to build on the road side where the sewer line goes through but in my ...and Dr. Wiswall you are going to build that you ...the individual has got to put his own money into that sewer line, if you are going to do it maybe you should just ask for lots along the roadway and forget the ones in the back until after they are built and then they... Councilman Tucker-But, you got the same thing with your water you are in the water district and you build 800' back from the road you have to run your water line from Mr. Sundburg-But, the water tax is no where near as damaging as the sewer tax... Dr. Wiswall- This theory that this adds to the value of property is a myth. Our property is not worth one quarter of what it was before the sewer was put in not because the sewer was put in but because of the economy that is what, the economy of what raised the value of your property and its worth a lot more before the sewer. Councilman Caimano- That is the back side of that equation, the other side is that if the economy stays static if that side of the equation is equal then the theory says that because you have added a sewer to your lot then it is more valuable. Dr. Wiswall-Ifwe all do not go broke first. Councilman Caimano- I am not arguing that point. Dr. Wiswall-I am telling you we spent $18,000 in sewer assessment, not a tax that we could write off, $18,000 on this vacant piece of land that is essentially farm land, there is only one building lot right now that could be sold and that is on Glenwood Avenue where there is water and sewer and gas you know where the pasture comes out. ...we are not talking about this and that, you see where it is, there is a building lot there. I would be happy to pay the residential whatever 1 point per acre on that lot but I do think that the fair thing is to give us a break on the rest of it...if you owned it and you were in our position you would think it would be fair too. Supervisor Brant-No question. Joyce? Ms. Joyce Thompson-I would like to know Councilman Caimano-Come to the microphone and put your name if you would please Joyce. Ms. Joyce Thompson-Garrison Road Town of Queensbury-I just wanted to relate our experience we had two septic systems originally one at each end of our house that worked very well and then the sewer district came along and we had to hook up and the cost was probably around $3500. for us to bring the sewer line into our house and we already had an underground sprinkling system in our front yard. Now I know that it is going to be a new system of taxing but also have 1.6 acres and we had sewer bills over $1,000. and we were originally taxed for the water coming into your house and then you are taxed for the water leaving your house so you know you are getting it both ways. I am curious now what the new formula is maybe we are not going to be taxed on assessment. Mr. Shaw-That is right, residential Ms. Thompson-We have 1.6 acres and we will be taxed how? Mr. Shaw-On your acreage Ms. Thompson-How will it work out for us? Mr. Shaw-Occupied residential, dwelling unit on one acre or less pays three points, the other six tenths you will be six tens of one point ok, so you will pay three points plus sixty percent. Ms. Thompson-And then how much is a point then? Mr. Shaw-A point is worth $123. do you have one of these Ms. Thompson-I did not get one... Supervisor Brandt-$196.00 if it is 1.6 acres. pardon me, plus, 369 plus 73 Ms. Thompson-So then the sewer tax Councilman Caimano-$443. Ms. Thompson-So the sewer tax will drop... Councilman Goetz-You are going down quite a bit, $536.56 Councilman Monahan-Water consumption will no longer be a factor, right Mike? Mr. Shaw-Not in capital construction Councilman Monahan-In her case..so your underground sprinkler system will not do you in now. Ms. Thompson-We also put a decimated meter in this summer, I do not know if you people know what that is but that measures the water that is going on your lawn and then you deduct that from the water consumption, it gets really complicated. Councilman Monahan-Well now that will not affect your sewer bill. Ms. Thompson-Putting the meter on cost a hundred and sum dollars too, so I am getting fed up, you ... Supervisor Brant-Mike, as I understand what we did here in this law is that we did shift tax more to the commercial and away from vacant land. Mr. Shaw-That is correct, most I would say all residential parcels are definitely receiving a large break compared to what they had before. Certainly the residence that have a house before based on assessed value and water usage, well assessed value if you went out and built a garage put an addition on to your house or put a pool in why should your sewer tax go up? So currently that would not be based on assessed value or water usage it is based on the acreage you have with your house so it will definitely give you a break. The way the district is now the commercial pays about 80% of the cost over the residential paying 20%. This plan here gives residential quite a break. I would like to make it a lot less, but, we do have to pay for the bonds and there is not a whole lot that you can do about it the district was formed and people within the district have to pay the costs. Councilman Goetz-Mike, wasn't the sewer district put in for commercial and part of the problem was the burden was going on residential, so we are trying to shift it back. Mr. Shaw-We are trying to put more of the burden back on the resident, we had two prior public hearings on this proposal, and we made adjustments and heard concerns of the residents we try to put more or the burden on the commercial without overburdening the commercial per sa. Originally on the original designs of this district the engineer had projected the capital construction portion of the budget a resident would be paying $399. a year. Now we are under that projection with this plan. Councilman Goetz-Plus many things did not happen like Earltown was not developed and the sewer district went in partially for that and Hiland did not build out to what they had proposed so there are reasons why this is a problem. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else? Unknown-I heard that there were some large businesses on Upper Glen Street not speaking about Mr. Merrills,... that were not even being charged for their water... Councilman Goetz-This is true, there is a list and we are having to deal with that problem. Unknown-Are you doing a census now? Councilman Goetz-Yes, we are in the process of it, I mean like Doyles isn't hooked up, they maybe now but they are on a list, it was surprising to me to find the people that weren't hooked up. I do not understand why that was not taken care of previously. Supervisor Brandt-I will tell you the other side of this is that while the homeowner gets a reduction from what it was in the past the business owner pays more and its a burden for them to. No business is infinite in its supply of money. So, the answer is to get more usage more concentrated usage in the district and get the cost down for everyone. I think that is a planning issue. Unknown-I still do not want anybody getting it for nothing...ifthey have water coming in they will be charged for it, like everyone else. Mr. Doug ...-Why are there still unmetered commercial property. Councilman Goetz-Good question, we are working on it we are trying to get them all hooked up, this came to light, I do not know the answers to why it was done that way, but, we are trying to rectify the problem. Mr. Doug ..-Is that something that can be done in a relatively shortly... Councilman Goetz-Yes. They are working on it. Councilman Caimano-We are doing it right now. Councilman Goetz-Absolutely, it is a big problem. Supervisor Brandt-There is a law in the Town of Queensbury that everyone is supposed to be on meters. That was passed in the last administration it is hard to understand. Councilman Goetz-We are just as frustrated as you are about it. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else? Owner of Garden Time- I just want to know how this is going to effect my business at Garden Time. Councilman Goetz-There is a list and you can check with Mike Shaw as to how you will be impacted. Mr. Shaw-You probably do not know your tax map number? Owner of Garden Time-No Mr. Shaw-You are talking about the Silo, Right? Owner of Garden Time-No, Garden Time Mr. Shaw-Garden Time is not in the Sewer Dist. you will not be affected. Owner of Garden Time-Oh I see... Mr. Shaw- It is just the current Quaker Road Sewer Dist. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else? Closed the Public Hearing Paul what is the timing on this matter. We have gone to public hearing, first we proposed something, we brought it to public hearing then we modified it and now we have gone back to public hearing with the modification. There is a time frame that we have to move on this in order to make it a legal district and get on the rolls. Attorney Dusek-I believe the time frame co-insides with the budget. You can do it now or wait... Agreed to by the Board to move on the motion... At a Meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, held at the Queensbury Activities Center, 531 Bay Road, Queens-bury, New York, on the 5th day of October, 1992. PRESENT: Supervisor Michel Brandt Councilman Betty Monahan Councilman Susan Goetz Councilman Nick Caimano Councilman Pliney Tucker ABSENT: None RESOLUTION NO. 537,92 IN THE MATTER OF THE ASSESSMENT ROLL OF THE CENTRAL QUEENSBURY QUAKER ROAD SEWER DISTRICT THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY, COUNTY OF WARREN, AND STATE OF NEW YORK WHEREAS, a benefit assessment roll assessing the expense of improvements pursuant to Section 202 of the Town Law has been prepared by this Town Board for and in consideration of certain district improvements consisting of general sanitary sewers in the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District of the said Town of Queensbury, which said roll has been heretofore completed and filed in the Office of the Town Clerk; and WHEREAS, due notice of the completion of said benefit assessment roll and the time and place where this Board would meet to hear and consider any objections that might be made to said roll, and for adopting the same, was duly given by the Town Clerk by a publication of due notice thereof in the Post- Star; and WHEREAS, the Town Board met at the time and place specified and a hearing was duly had upon said benefit assessment roll and all persons desiring to be heard having been heard; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the benefit assessment roll of the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District for the payment of the expense of public improvements within said Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, pursuant to Section 202 of the Town Law of the State of New York be and it is hereby approved, confirmed, and adopted, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk is instructed to annex to said benefit assessment roll a warrant which shall be signed by the Supervisor and countersigned by the Town Clerk commanding the Receiver of Taxes collect from the several persons named in said assessment roll the sum or sums opposite their respective names and to pay the same to the said Supervisor of the Town. The foregoing resolution was offered by Councilperson Mr. Nick Caimano and seconded by Councilperson Mrs. Susan Goetz and adopted by the following vote: AYES : Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES : None ABSENT: None Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brandt-One of the things we should do is look at these issues of vacant property and I think we cannot in this assessment because we have to move in an orderly fashion in time to make a legal tax and it is going to take going through a process of hearings in the future, but I think it is a very legitimate issue and I think we need to address it, and I think we need to address it with the Planning Board or the Planning Dept. as soon as possible. Councilman Caimano- Y ou made a good point that we did not create this law however it is within the provence of this law to correct inequities and I think Doc Wiswall has a good point, he does not mind being taxed for those properties which are on the sewer district, his concern is being taxed for that which is not on the sewer dist. I think it is within our providence to do something about it, not through this resolution but soon thereafter. Supervisor Brandt-We need to pass this tax so we can pay our bonds because we have that obligation. Vote taken. Comments made during vote: Councilman Monahan-Yes, because this is a better proposed system than what we had and it will be a different type of tax that I believe will be created differently by the IRS so it is an improvement over what we did have before. PUBLIC HEARING-SEWER CONNECTION-ROBERT AND SUZANNE MERRILL NOTICE SHOWN Mr. Bob Merrill-620 Glen Merrill Automotive-I pay a sewer assessment not hooked to it but pay the sewer assessment...I purchased this property a little over a year ago. Someone called and said they wanted an estimate I had a proposed estimate from Pro-Craft they would put it in for $7,000. I do not mind hooking up to the sewer, I understand everyone has to and everyone shares in the burden ofthe...thing. I just do not want to hook up to this until next summer, I do not have the cash now to hook up to it.. Councilman Goetz-Have you gotten three new estimates because that $7,000 is pretty high. Mr. Merrill-I have got one estimate, well there is a good deal of paving that goes along with it to it is a blacktop lot. Councilman Goetz-Mike we need three estimates because we passed that resolution. Mr. Shaw-Yes. We need three estimates, from three different registered contractors. Mr. Merrill-I have one estimate here. Mr. Shaw-Is that the original one from Pro-Craft? I think he was quoting you work that he does not need to do on the original hookup. Mr. Merrill-I guess I will have to wait and get some more estimates. Councilman Goetz-I think three new ones will give us a lot more current information. Mr. Merrill-And I have to go out now and run down the people to bid... Councilman Goetz-Didn't you have the problem that you bought the property quite close to when the original letters went out and you may never have seen the letter. Mr. Merrill-Yes. Councilman Tucker-Mike, don't you have a list of the people that are authorized to do this? Mr. Shaw-I believe Bob, you have that right? Councilman Tucker-Do you have that list? Mr. Merrill-I have the list. Councilman Caimano-We are not here to beat anybody up why don't we just leave as you said, leave the public hearing open we will just get your stuff done Supervisor Brandt-We will give you time to get that in and we will leave this hearing open until you get those three estimates and then come back to us and then we will work on it from there. Anyone else that would like to speak on that one? The Hearing will stay open a period ofweeks...and we will revisit it at a later time. WORKSHOP HIGHWAY DEPT. Supervisor Brandt-This was brought about by a memo I sent to Paul Naylor, my concern is that in the revenue side of our budget for the Highway Dept. for this current year there is an item that says that there will be a transfer of payment of $360,000 to the Highway Dept. from some source that we cannot identify. In the main budget there is no identification of where that source will come from and we do not have the money. I do not want to leave the budget unamended because by law as I understand it he would have the full right to spend that money whether we had it or not and we would have to borrow it and I do not want to borrow it. I asked him if there was a way to trim the budget to live within the revenues and I asked to do it on the record formally. Mr. Paul Naylor-Highway Supt.-I will not take my jacket off because I got big scars where I cut all day. As you know me and my Deputy gave up a lot of things for Tuck today but he does not know it yet, it is going to hurt Tuck to come up with the bread. Councilman Tucker-Give them up for me? Mr. Paul Naylor-Yea you are going to hurt...! gave up your $25,000 in blacktop for Dixon Road. Councilman Tucker-Well, that is all right. Mr. Naylor-I do not have enough cabbage left for that Peggy Ann Road job either. Councilman Tucker-I kind of figured that the other day when... Mr. Naylor-I gave it all to Mikie today and we are straight. Supervisor Brandt-In effect what you are saying is by the budget cuts that you have proposed it puts it in balance and it will cost us some projects that you were going to undertake this fall and if we want those projects we will have to fund them separately as separate projects if you can still do them. Mr. Naylor-The truth was I was going to start one tomorrow morning unless you two guys can come up with around ten grand tonight it is on hold. Supervisor Brandt-And that is for what, Paul? Mr. Naylor-Dixon Road. You asked me to extend the shoulders four foot. Supervisor Brandt-And you say Mr. Naylor-I gave that money back today ...between Rick and I ...we came up with this formula and that was part ofit...that was one of the cuts. Councilman Tucker-I would like to point out that I spoke to Mr. Naylor way back in June and asked him through his paving and stuff if he could possibly find some money to do that over there and he did. Mr. Naylor-I lost it today. Councilman Tucker-And you lost it today. Supervisor Brandt-What you are saying is that you would need $10,000 immediately? Mr. Naylor-Roughly, given a rough idea you wanted four foot wide and we are talking 3-4 thousand feet...an inch and a half of top the labor is covered in the highway budget so we are talking material, as far as equipment that is covered all you got to pay for is blacktop. Supervisor Brandt-The Peggy Ann Road project Mr. Naylor-I got the last bill from our friends Supervisor Brandt -Surveyors. Mr. Naylor-Naturally they are paying the high rate because we have to pay it and I think that came in at 5 grand that catches us up to now so we got all the surveying done and we are just waiting as you know for our friends down at the City to give us the go ahead. Supervisor Brandt-Paul, I think that the Board should address these items individually and if, can you come back to us on the Peggy Ann Road at a figure of what you would need this year to work.. Mr. Naylor-On Peggy Ann, Well, until we get the go ahead from the other party we are in limbo right now. He promised us probably last Friday, each day that ticks by you know we are going to be a few days on Dixon Road and then we are going to see what time is left and if they ok, that project then we will have to have them go back in set up grade stakes so we can go in there and start digging, that is mostly whats needed is right a way stakes and grade stakes to give us some idea of what the cuts are over there. Councilman Tucker-What do you figure you will need? I do not have any idea right now. You know what we have done so far and... Councilman Caimano- If you do not do these jobs, you are saying that the memo that Mike wrote to you then is not, the $360 is null, is not being spent, that you are spending your budget properly, less the 360. Mr. Naylor-Yes. We cut our budget today to take care of it... Councilman Monahan-But, you had to cut more than these two projects, right. Mr. Naylor-We cut a lot of projects as you can see, what Mike has in his hand he is going to ask you for a resolution that eats a little bit offfrom everything...the only thing I have to do some addition and subtraction through the grapevine I understand we are taking the traffic lights from the County? Supervisor Brandt-Well it is proposed to. Councilman Caimano- It is proposed, Lafayette and Mr. Naylor-...bank for me will ya...! do not want them, as far as I am concerned I do not have the money to pay for the light bills or maintain. We cut the labor back and we are cutting the labor for next year we are right down to the skinny and it takes money to go out at 2 o'clock in the morning to change light bulbs even though they are five bucks a piece. We still got to get up in the middle of the night to do it, the cops have nothing better to do than call us to tell us to change a light bulb and it is expensive, somebody has got to pay. The County has got a good deal if we are going to take care of them. I thought originally the deal was that they were going to pay for the power, they were going to pay for the repairs from what I understand now, they are going to fix them up so we like them and then say.... Councilman Tucker-There hasn't been anything been signed yet. Mr. Naylor-Then don't sign, will you. That is my 2 cents worth I am the guy that has got to take care of them. Supervisor Brandt -On Dixon Road we still have to wait for Niagara Mohawk to move the Mr. Naylor-Tuck says he is working on that. I can work up to the poles then we will have to stop. Councilman Tucker-He can work both directions, what you have got to do is make a call down there, they have it all laid out on the road, so they are getting ready to do it. Mr. Naylor-We are all set. I pulled out another crew off another job...! spent most of the day with Rick and we worked these numbers out to come out so that we could come here tonight and tell you that piece of paper is null and void. Supervisor Brandt-We can amend the budget to this and then if we want to do Dixon Road we have to appropriate $10,000. and Reservoir Road we will have to do an estimate on it, Reservoir, Peggy Ann Road. Councilman Tucker-Paul, the only thing you can do on Peggy Ann Road is move dirt? Mr. Naylor-yes. Supervisor Brandt-I know you guys did a lot of work on this and I appreciate it, I think it is a very responsible job and I think it is our job now to amend the budget according to what you have done and then it is ours to address issues as we need them, if we want projects we will have to fund them. Thank you. RESOLUTION AMENDING 1992 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.: 538, 92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHEREAS, according to financial projections based on the current rate of expenditures, the Highway Fund will likely spend a total of more than $2.1 million by the end of 1992, and WHEREAS, the revenue side of the 1992 Highway Fund shows a $360,000.00 interfund revenue item, the source of which is unidentified, and presumed to be derived from a Capital Project not identified in the budget, and WHEREAS, there is no money to fund the item, so the true revenue figure will only be $1,800,000.00, rather than the budgeted $2,150,000.00, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves, authorize, and directs that the 1992 Budget be amended as follows: 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) 6) 7) 8) 9) 10) 11) 12) 13) 14) 15) 16) 17) 18) 19) 20) 21) 22) 23) 24) 25) 26) 27) 1) Decrease Appropriations by the following amounts: FROM AMOUNT TO 004-5110-1400 Unappropriated Fund Balance 004-5110-1440 004-5110-1461 004-5110-1470 004-5110-4220 004-5110-4442 004-5110-4610 004-5130-2060 004-5130-4220 004-5130-4400 004-5130-4470 004-5130-4480 004-5130-4510 004-5140-4001 004-5142-1002 004-5142-1400 004-5142-1440 004-5142-1450 004-5142-4400 004-5148-4400 004-9010-8010 004-9030-8030 004-9040-8040 004-9060-8060 004-9720-6020 004-9720-7020 004-9785-6085 20,000 9,500 6,500 10,000 2,500 20,000 20,000 15,000 2,500 30,000 3,500 5,000 2,500 3,500 8,000 25,000 20,000 5,000 8,000 1,000 4,185 8,000 6,000 10,000 40,000 12,000 60,000 $357,685 and 2) Decrease Estimated Revenues in Account #004-004-2801 from $360,000.00 to $2)15.00 (Interfund Revenue). Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992, by the following vote: AYES : Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES : None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION TO APPROVE TOWN BOARD MINUTES RESOLUTION NO. 539,92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the minutes of September 24th and 25th of 1992. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992 by the following vote: ALL THOSE IN FAVOR: AYES ALL THOSE OPPOSED: NONE ABSENT: NONE RESOLUTION TO AMEND 1992 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.: 540,92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHEREAS, certain departments have requested transfers of funds for the 1992 Budget, and WHEREAS, said requests have been approved by the Chief Fiscal Officer, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred as follows, for the 1992 budget: PINE VIEW CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM: FROM: TO: AMOUNT: 02-8810-1430 (Labor-B P.T.) 02-8810-4200 (Insurance) $ 1)00.00 Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992, by the following vote: NOES : None AYES :Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt ABSENT: None RESOLUTION TO AMEND 1992 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.: 541,92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHEREAS, certain departments have requested transfers of funds for the 1992 Budget, and WHEREAS, said requests have been approved by the Chief Fiscal Officer, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT PLANNING & ZONING: RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred as follows, for the 1992 budget: FROM: 01-8010-1920 (Zoning Administrator - Planning) 01-8020-4130 (Legal Services) 01-8020-4220 (Training & Education) 01-8020-4090 (Conference Expense) TO: AMOUNT: 01-8010-1605 (Executive Director, Planning, Zoning, Building & Codes) $ 5,000.00 01-8020-2010 (Office Equipment) $ 5,000.00 01-8020-4010 (Office Supplies) $ 1,000.00 01-8020-4400 (Miscellaneous $ 500.00 Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992, by the following vote: Contractual) NOES : None AYES : Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt ABSENT: None RESOLUTION OF REAPPOINTMENT TO BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW RESOLUTION NO. 542, 92 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHEREAS, the term of Charles Hauser expired on September 30, 1992, and WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to appoint Charles Hauser to another term on the Board of Assessment Review, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby reappoints Charles Hauser to serve as a member of the Queensbury Board of Assessment Review for a three year term, said term to expire September 30, 1995. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None Discussion held : REZONING APPLICATION FOR BAY MEADOWS CORP. Attorney Dusek-There was an application submitted to the Board, questions were raised concerning density if golf courses were included...this resolution restarts the process the previous resolution refers to a short environmental assessment form and this was an unlisted action, this resolution states it as a Type I Action and its a Long Form should and has been done ... this authorizes notification oflead agent and about to undertake a review of the project. Supervisor Brandt-This would be an extension of the sewer dist., it would create customers that we need. Resolution was introduced by Supervisor Brandt, Seconded by Mr. Tucker...Councilman Caimano-questioned if this could pass a long form SEQRA...Councilman Monahan-It is going to have to be a long Environmental Impact...Motion was withdrawn Councilman Caimano asked for more background on this project. RESOLUTION TO SET PUBLIC HEARING ON APPLICATION FOR VARIANCE FROM REQUIRED SEWER CONNECTIONS RESOLUTION NO. 543, 92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is authorized, pursuant to ~ 136-44.1 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury, to, upon request, waive the sewer connection requirement of ~ 136- 44 thereof or vary the time in which such connection must be made, provided that certain standards and criteria or conditions are met or demonstrated and provided that a certain procedure is followed, and WHEREAS, in granting a variance or waiver, the Town Board may consider one or all of the following circumstances: (a) The distance from the building to the town sewer pipeline to which connection is required. (b) The cost of the connection. (c) The existence or nonexistence of any physical obstructions. (d) The financial loss to be sustained by the property owner in the event of nonuse of the current system. (e) Whether the current sewage disposal system is properly functioning. (f) Whether any rights-of-way or easements are needed in order for the applicant to make the connection to the town sewer system. (g) Whether strict application of the connection requirement of ~ 136-44 would result in a specified difficulty to the applicant, for which the applicant has not been given a reasonable time to respond to or address, and whether the variance or waiver would be materially detrimental to the purposes of the sewer connection requirement or that the property and the district in which the property is located or otherwise conflict with the description or objections of the plan or policy of the town and that the interests of justice are served. and WHEREAS, if the Town Board finds any or all of the above circumstances or conditions, the Town Board may grant the following relief: (a) In the event that circumstances giving rise to the request are due to physical obstructions, costs significantly greater than the usual sewer connection costs, a distance greater than two hundred fifty (250) feet from the sewer pipeline to the building or structure to be connected or a documented inability to obtain an easement or right-of-way over which the sewer line must pass in order to connect to the town sewer system, the Town Board may grant a permanent waiver from the requirement that the applicant connect the subject property, provided that the sewage disposal system currently serving the property is operational, in accordance with the Town of Queensbury laws and regulations and appropriate New York State agency rules and regulations, and (b) In the event that the circumstances giving rise to the request are due to excessive costs of connection, the financial loss to be sustained by the property owner in the event of nonuse of the current system or any other specified difficulty which makes it difficult or impractical for the applicant to connect to the town sewer system and the applicant is willing to pay the full and usual sewer rents or taxes accruing against the property, the Town Board may grant an extension of time, not exceeding two (2) years, in which to connect to the town sewer system, provided that the sewage disposal system currently serving the property is operational, in accordance with the Town of Queensbury laws and regulations and appropriate New York State agency rules and regulations, and WHEREAS, Mr. Howard Carr, as Receiver, pursuant to a Court Order dated 2/24/89, on behalf of the Estate of Saul I. Birnbaum, Thomas Puccio as Executor and the Estate of Bernard P. Birnbaum, Ilene Flaum and Jay Birnbaum as Co-Trustees, (Property of Queensbury Factory Outlet Plaza) has applied to the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury for a variance and relief from that part of the law requiring sewer connections upon the grounds that: That a physical obstruction exists which makes the connection difficult or impossible, such obstruction being that there is a high water table; and that the cost of connection is approximately $25,000.00; and WHEREAS, the applicants have indicated that: The site is currently serviced by an existing private sewage treatment facility on the southeast corner of the property, which is currently functioning, and the well is tested every month. Also they request a waiver of the connection requirement until the Queensbury Factory Outlet Plaza releasing and renovation plan is implemented and construction has begun; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury will hold a public hearing on the applicant on October 26th, 1992, at 7:00 p.m., at the Queensbury Activities Center, 531 Bay Road, Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, to consider the application for a variance ofMr. Howard Carr, as Receiver, pursuant to a Court Order dated 2/24/89, on behalf of the Estate of Saul I. Birnbaum, Thomas Puccio as Executor and the Estate of Bernard P. Birnbaum, Ilene Flaum and Jay Birnbaum as Co-Trustees, on property situated at the Queensbury Factory Outlet Plaza, Bank and Upper Glen Streets, Queensbury, New York, and bearing Tax Map No. 103.-1-1.2 and 103.-1-1.2, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the hearing shall be on written notice to the applicant and said applicant shall be entitled to ten (10) days written notice, with the provision, however, that this notice may be waived by the applicant by affirmative action or by appearance at the time and place of the hearing, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury be and is hereby directed and authorized to publish a Notice of Hearing in the official newspaper for the Town not less than ten (10) days prior to the date of the hearing, which Notice of Hearing shall be in a form substantially consistent with the Notice presented at this meeting. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992, by the following vote: AYES : Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES : None ABSENT: None Discussion held before vote: Mr. Shaw-What they are asking for is an extension of time... It was agreed by the Board to have the hearing on October 26th... Councilman Monahan-questioned if the effluent from the package system of the plaza was ending up in Hovey Pond? Mr. Shaw-noted he had called DEC and asked for the status of the treatment facility, DEC did a site inspection and they told me their observation was currently with the little usage of the system it was adequate, they doubt it would meet the criteria of 1992 but viewed it adequate. Supervisor Brandt-The water used to come from that area and go into Hovey Pond that has been deflected now and goes around Hovey Pond. Councilman Monahan-I am talking about the affluent from the package plant, does that go to Hovey Pond... Supervisor Brandt-No, it goes around the pond, south of it, that is a little stream that we diverted around it. vote taken RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SEWER HOOK-UP AGREEMENT RESOLUTION NO.: 544, 92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has been presented with a proposed agreement which would provide for the creation of an extension to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, and also provide for sewer service to that area or parcel of land upon which Long Silvers and Pizza Hut Restaurants are located, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby generally approves and authorizes the use of the agreement presented at this meeting and described in the preambles of this resolution, and hereby authorizes the Town Supervisor to execute the same after the form of the agreement has been approved and modified as determined to be appropriate by the Town Attorney for the Town of Queensbury. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT: None Discussion held regarding Sewer Hookup-Attorney Dusek-The arrangement is that the developer is putting in the pipes, he is paying a capital contribution charge to the City, the capacity charge that we normally pay which I believe is 75 cents per thousand gallon, and he would thereafter join the district and pay what everybody else is paying...noted at one time there was an additional proposed cost of 15 cents per thousand gallon, I cannot see ajustification of that under the circumstances since he will be joining in and paying for the rest of the collector system along with everybody else, plus he is putting in his own pipe and make the contribution for the added burden....Councilman Monahan-What about the general administration of the sewer dist.? Attorney Dusek-He will be a member of the district and paying the same charges as anyone else...they will be consolidated into the parent district. Vote taken RESOLUTION RETAINING SERVICES OF MORSE ENGINEERING, P.c. RESOLUTION NO.: 545 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nicholas Caimano WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, after duly considering other engineering firms, previously retained the services of Morse Engineering, P.c., to assist with the development of a Closure Investigation Report for the closure of Cell I at the Queensbury Landfill, and to assist with submissions required by a DEC Consent Order agreed to by the Town of Queensbury concerning the said Landfill, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury desires to evaluate the potential uses of paper mill sludge, rolite, and/or ash from the Warren-Washington County incinerator in connection with the close-out process of the Town of Queensbury Landfill, and WHEREAS, the Town Board's evaluation of the potential uses of said paper sludge, rolite, and/or ash, require the services of an engineer, and WHEREAS, Morse Engineering, P.c., has offered to render said professional services, and it is noted that Morse Engineering, P.c. is a logical choice in light of the fact that they have worked on the Cell I Closure Investigation Report and have already, to date, made certain filings with the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, concerning the Closure Investigation Report, and WHEREAS, an agreement for the retention of the professional services of Morse Engineering, P.C., has been presented at this meeting, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the agreement to retain the services of Morse Engineering P.c., and hereby further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute the same on behalf of the Town of Queensbury, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, all expenditures incurred as a result of the aforesaid agreement shall not exceed the sum of $14,000.00, and shall be paid for from the appropriate Landfill Account as selected by the Supervisor. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt NOES : None ABSENT: None Discussion held-Need for an upset figure...$14,000. set...appropriate account to the landfill account as selected by the Supervisor...agreed to by Board... Councilman Monahan-requested reports be given to the Board regarding progress so we can determine how far and how wide the investigation is going to go... Supervisor Brandt-There has to be a lot of dialogue between the board and community... RESOLUTION TO AMEND 1992 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.: 546, 92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, certain departments have requested transfers of funds for the 1992 Budget, and WHEREAS, said requests have been approved by the Chief Fiscal Officer, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred as follows, for the 1992 budget: BUILDING & CODES: FROM: TO: AMOUNT: 001-3620-1370 (Asst. Building Inspector) 001-3620-2001 (Misc. Equipment) $ 800.00 001-3620-1370 (Asst. Building Inspector) 001-3620-4030 (Postage) $ 800.00 001-3620-1370 (Asst. Building Inspector) 001-3620-1605 (Executive Director) $ 7,000.00 Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992, by the following vote: AYES Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT: None DISCUSSION HUDSON POINTE Attorney Mike O'Connor and Mr. Alan Oppenheim Attorney Dusek-Project Hudson Pointe- This project has undertaken the first step of a PUD process which is, after being referred to the Planning Board to get a recommendation of the Planning Board and that board has done that and sent it on to the Town Board. I met with Mr. O'Connor and his client the other day and discuss the next step in the process would be and there is a number of them including the completion of the SEQRA Process as well as going through public hearings in connection with our PUD legislation. We also discussed legal time frames were available and generally how things move along. We noticed there are a couple of issues that really we should address as soon as possible. Three issues: One-How the project will be handled internally by the town in terms of what people will be used to review the project, whether you will use inhouse people to review it or whether you hire outside planning consultants. Two: SEQRA Process and whether we should have one SEQRA Review that covers the entire project both the Zoning and the Site Plan Review that the Planning Board engages in and Three: The depth of SEQRA which is closely related to the second issue of two SEQRA or one...Mike O'Connor's clients would prefer two separate reviews one for Rezoning and one for the Subdivision Site Plan Review...Critical question at this point, need a feeling from the Board as to whether you would be using inhouse or out of house assistance...in the past PUD's the Board has gone to outside help and outside engineers... Supervisor Brandt-From my view point, I think the Town Dept. head Mr. Martin when he comes aboard should lead the process, and tell us if he needs expertise in specific fields...if we hire an engineering firm to take on the project for us they build the job much larger than it has to be in my estimation...! would rather that we control it and take responsibility for what we ask for, ask for specific things if we need engineering expertise ask for that and hire it and bill it to them...plus we have more planning talent that we hired, put them to work. Councilman Monahan-Noted we have never done PUD's in house...the magnitude of the project is such that it put an burden on the Planning Dept. .. what the outside consultant really does is follow the SEQRA process and make sure it is done completely and the way it should be and that is usually after a scoping session with the Town Board and the Planning Board to determine the perimeters of that SEQRA Process. Supervisor Brandt-I think your point is valid the PUD's previous were 1000 units each, this one is 160 units a much smaller project. I think we may have items that we are not capable of handling fine go ask for help on those items but identify them... Mr. Mike O'Connor-Represents Michels Group the Developers of the Project, Owners Niagara Mohawk, project called Hudson Pointe...The Planning Board has determined that the applicant has submitted sufficient application to deem or certify that the application is complete and ready to pass on to this Board as the Town Board for its action. The Planning Board also gave a favorable recommendation for the project as presented to the Planning Board to proceed with the PUD portion of what we are talking about. The PUD regs are a two part process, the first decision that this board has to make is whether or not this Board will rezone this particular property and then after that you will be into an indepth detailed at the Planning Board level for site plan review, which will review the specific impact of the proposed project on the land and the neighborhood. If I can divorce the two decision process I think I really carry into effect the purpose of the PUD regulations. The PUD regulations were to give the developers some flexibility and some ability to proceed without spending all kinds of money upfront to come to a PUD designation the regulations specifically speak of not having design engineered drawings. Not having specific identical plans that you use for construction purposes. General information, general classification, plans that will allow you to make an intelligent decision as to the PUD classification but then pass it on to the second process to the Planning Board the actual review of the project. Councilman Caimano-The basic process ought to be followed...it was meant that the Town Board as Lead Agency would be over site, each step of the way the Planning Board from Sketch to Preliminary to Final was to be the one getting down to the nitty gritty, I agree with what you say. You do not need to have specific plans right now you need them down the road, however this PUD should not be treated any differently than is the the PUD with a million units in terms of how this board sets up its policy. Attorney O'Connor-I think if you follow the regulations you are going to have to treat each application as an individual application...!fyou look at the acres and use the density that is allowed there now, under present zoning, you are talking about 180 residential units we are talking 166 residential units, less than the allowed density. We are not talking about increasing density we are not talking about mixing into a residential zone which is one of the privilege of going to a PUD Commercial Uses. If you look at the PUD regulations you mayor the Town Board may approve certain amount of commercial mix it does not say it shall it is not a requirement of a PUD. That distinguishes us a little bit maybe from the last two applications that have been before the board. Here we are not talking about mixing a commercial use we are talking about solely a residential use in an area that is already zoned residential. The real benefit that we have here is that we have built into this some flexibility of design that we can mingle some degree different levels of residential units by using the PUD regulations. Also we built into it the ability to use the common ownership feature which allows us to preserve much of the natural resources of the site by common, some of which would be recreational, some open space. You have before you a lot more information at this particular point than the regulations actually require. Councilman Caimano- There is a lot of reasons why we should not go to external sources I think one is what you pointed out it is not a very big situation the other one is financial the third is that we have an executive director someone who should know his way around. If we are going to go to outside services then I think this person should have some input as to what we need and how we go about it. We will control the purse strings but he should have some control as to what we need on the outside. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-I was just involved in a project in Halfmoon, 39 Units was a PUD because we wanted to do something a little more creative...introduce a design concept that was not the typical grid like subdivision. PUD does not have to mean tremendous densities and ...once we get through the zone change process there is a very lengthy site plan during which a tremendous amount of work a year or three quarters of a year however long it is.. . noted many changes during the site plan process.. . from our stand point the zone change is really an approval of the concept and obviously then at that point in time to get into the engineering to make sure that everything works from a technical standpoint, to me it does not seem to be productive to put in the time and money to have to go into a high level of engineering during the preliminary process at which time the zoning change is ... Councilman Tucker-I guess my experience with a PUD is like you I have been out there all these people as I sit here and look at them all had a shot at this, is there any flexibility in the system as we go through it where we can work with the applicant? Attorney Dusek-I think there is, you are hitting on the issue, that is going to be a tough one for you to consider and that is, there are two questions here one floating around as far as the SEQRA Review do we do it in one step or two steps but the second issue is no matter what you decide on that first question and that is, maybe you decide that there should be two separate SEQRA reviews one at the PUD stage when you are considering it and one that the Planning Board would do later the question is even at your stage how deep or what kind of depth do you get into in terms of your SEQRA review. I am not sure you can answer either one of those questions tonight but at least you can start thinking about those issues. You will want to hear from your planner on these issues and I would like to do some more research on the matter from the legal perspective. Councilman Caimano-Ifwe are going to agree that the PUD is a relatively flexible means of development and if in fact we take it at face value as Mike O'Connor has said that we do not need the specifics of engineering upfront then you have to go to two SEQRA reviews because you do not even know all the questions let alone all the answers I would just as soon see the zoning SEQRA done by us and a second SEQRA as site plan review comes up. Supervisor Brandt-Looking at it from the Town's View Point and SEQRA, one, what is the traffic going to do on Corinth Road. Corinth Road is a very busy road, but that end of Corinth Road is not nearly as busy as Corinth Road to the City, what happens at Exit 18, Exit 18 has a problem, and will have a problem as West Glens Falls grows out...this project will not effect it a great deal a little bit. I see the project as probably its most critical element is potential erosion. You have basically some sand bluffs that are 40-50 feet drop to the river and they are sand and the reason that they are there is that the rain water peculates into the soil and just goes in and is absorbed and does not create gullies. As you develop in and put impervious surfaces, roofs and roads you are going to potentially create an erosion problem and sand that can be a nasty problem and with 50 vertical feet you could have one hell of a problem, if they do not solve that project they will not be to first base. You have to identify it and I do not think you can solve that when you create the PUD, I think that is a design question when you get into the design and specifics. I think you can identify it as something that needs to be addressed and then it is really in that second stage that you properly handle that. Councilman Caimano-So you are in favor of two SEQRA's? Supervisor Brandt-I think so. Councilman Monahan-I think Paul, makes a good point that he needs a chance to research this a little further before we make up our minds. I would like to see Jim Martin on board before we make these kinds of decisions. Noted that there are other interested parties such as DEC and Warren Co. that may bring forth other questions... Councilman Tucker-Questioned if the applicant could work within our PUD? Attorney O'Connor-Yes. This project is very well suited for it. Spoke to the Board regarding the proposed set backs from the bluff... Supervisor Brandt-A lot of good work has been done on this project from what I have seen already.. Attorney O'Connor-Spoke to the Board regarding involved parties ..on zoning only the Town Board is the interested party ... when you reach Site Plan Review there are a number of agencies that will have a decision to be made on this project DEC because of Wetlands, Health Dept. on Septic, DOT on Road cuts etc. Noted we are waiting for Oct. 29th for the sign off oflead agency...shortly after that you would be in a position to say you want to set a date for public hearing, that you want to refer formally to Warren County Planning Board...also you would call for a workshop meeting ... the later part of November after public hearings you would act on the Pud rezoning, then start with the Planning Board site specific.. .discussion held on Sherman Island Road which a portion goes through our property, as it extends through the project it only serves the lands of Niagara Mohawk...in our project we show it dead ending that we have to work out as a separate process, a road abandonment.. . Councilman Monahan - Spoke to the Board regarding the importance of a good SEQRA process to be able to evaluate the property correctly. Supervisor Brandt-We want to encourage PUD specifically because you can cluster and get more innovated with landuse than you can without the PUD. Thank Attorney O'Connor and Mr. Oppenheim for attending the meeting... Councliman Goetz-Re: Zoning Changes related to placement of Swimming Pools and fences...Dave Hatin has asked if we are ready to send this to Paul? ... agreed to send it to Paul OPEN FORUM Mr. Don Mabb-speaking for his Dad and people on Sherman and Pasco Avenue, regarding a water dist. Councilman Tucker-It has been turned over to the Water Supt. to get a request for proposal on establishment of a water dist.... Supervisor Brandt-It is our feeling to move it along... Mr. Mabb-Questioned when this would happen.. Councilman Tucker-It is not going to happen this year but it is going to happen the first part of next year. Reviewed the process of establishing a district. Attorney Dusek- 1. Regarding changing the date of the penalty on the water bills, my understanding was that a credit on the next bills would be ok... (agreed to by the Board) 2. Ron Newell property on Bay Road, denied use variance...questioned if there was any interest in rezoning that property? Councilman Monahan-the Town of Queensbury turned it down because there is a great deal of wetland... (Councilman Caimano left meeting) Supervisor Brandt-We need density and development in the sewer dist....Planning needs to get into it and the Town Board needs to get into it... Attorney Dusek-Is there any interest in rezoning about 300' off the highway...not the entire wetland parcel... Supervisor Brandt-I think we should look at it and study it and see if it should be rezoning and involve our planning dept. in it...take a fresh look in context with our problem with the sewer district... Councilman Goetz- I would tell him we are going to look at that, the whole district not just his parceL.. Agreed by the Town Board to have the Attorney contact Mr. Newell and have him talk to the Planning Dept. (Councilman Caimano returned to meeting) 3. Traffic Lights-Quaker Road- Attorney Dusek-We are ready to execute contacts but we have no one to supervise New York Fire and Signal... Councilman Caimano-It is my intent that the Meadowbrook Light would be off completely, Lafayette I suggest would be a blinking light because of the fire house, that is just me speaking I think we should move it along... Discussion held on Dixon Road-agreed to allocate money for the project... Councilman Monahan-What are we trying to achieve by increasing the size of the shoulders? Supervisor Brandt-We are talking one side of the road, south side, to increase it 4' in width and basically make a footpath, bikepath for the children that are walking to Kennsington Road SchooL.Niagara Mohawk has agreed to move three poles... RESOLUTION TO AMEND 1992 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO. 547,92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano Resolved, to transfer 10,000 dollars from the contingency to the Highway Dept. for the purpose of widening one side of Dixon Road from Reservoir Road to the City Line as per Paul's estimate of 10,000 to do that so that we can start immediately on the work. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION TO APPROVE AUDIT OF BILLS RESOLUTION NO. 548, 92 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the Abstract appearing on October 5, 1992 and numbered 92424500 through 92435700 and totaling $170,229.42 is hereby approved. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: Mr. Caimano on 000127 Town Board agreed to cancel the meeting of October 12th due to the Holiday...set up Town Board Meetings Wednesday at 5 and Thursday at 4....budget workshops... RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 549,92 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan: RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Executive Session to discuss litigation. Duly adopted this 5th day of October, 1992 by the following vote: ALL THOSE IN FAVOR: AYES ALL THOSE OPPOSED: NONE ABSENT: NONE ON MOTION THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED. Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury