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1993-05-13 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MAY 13,1993 7:00 P.M. MTG#37 RES#29 1-292 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Supervisor Michel Brandt Councilman Pliney Tucker Councilman Susan Goetz Councilman Betty Monahan BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT Councilman Nick Caimano TOWN ATTORNEY Paul Dusek TOWN OFFICIALS Jim Martin, Tim Brewer, Scott Harlicker PRESS WENU, Moreau Sun Supervisor Michel Brandt called meeting to order. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION 291,93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and moves into Executive Session to meet with QEDC to discuss a negotiation of theirs. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1993, by the following vote: All Those In Favor: Ayes All Those Opposed: None Absent: Mr. Caimano RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 292, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session and moves into Regular Session. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1993, by the following vote: All Those In Favor: Ayes All Those Opposed: None Absent: Mr. Caimano Supervisor Brandt-Noted that the Board went into Executive Session for the purpose of discussing a potential land sale with the Queensbury Economic Development Corporation adjourned from Executive Session and now will continue the meeting. SCOPING SESSION HUDSON POINTE PUD Attorney Michael O'Connor, Mr. Alan Oppenheim, Mr. Rob Sutherland, Mr. Tom Nace, and Mr. Dick Morse present. Supervisor Brandt-How would you like to lead this? Mr. Martin-What I thought would be most effective given the format we agreed upon last week would be something that would much mirror a public hearing. It was the thought of the Board to allow verbal public comment as well as written at this session. What, I thought I might do is begin by reading correspondence into the record that I've received as a response to the notices that went out to the involved agencies, I should say. Then, I'll read the list of agencies that were notified. We will hear from Dick Morse whose been retained by the Town to assist us in the scoping review. Then allow for public input then finally input from the Board if that would be acceptable. Since the time the positive dec was issued and we went out to scoping I've had five pieces of correspondence two from DEC, one from the Highway Dept., a letter came into today from the Adirondack Mountain Club, also have a letter from the Nature Conservancy, and I'll read those if you'll just bear with me. Highway Department letter. To: Jim Martin From: Paul H. Naylor, Re: Hudson Pointe Letter dated May, 12, 1993 Jim, Its come to my attention that sometime last year there was a thunder storm and a bolt of lightening struck a tree sending it into someone's cellar. The fire trucks were called and Sherman Island Road was blocked for probably an hour and a half to two hours, there was no traffic in or out. This would seem to mean that there has to be another way out for those folks on Sherman Island. I think with our budget cuts and the way they have been from a maintenance and a safety view point, we should leave all those roads connected, and another way out has got to be provided. I thought about this long and hard and there just has to be another way. Any questions please give me a call. Respectfully, Paul H. Naylor, Highway Superintendent Letter from Joseph e. Prall, Senior Environmental Analyst in the Regulatory Affairs Division of Department of Environmental Conservation, Letter dated March 16, 1993 regarding Draft Environmental Impact Statement, Hudson Pointe, PUD, Town of Queensbury, Warren County. Dear Supervisor Brandt: I am enclosing a copy of a memorandum I received from Alan Koechlein, our wildlife biologist, regarding the above mentioned project. These comments are to be included in the scope for the DEIS and addressed in the document. Also, I would advise that, since the area is archaeologically sensitive, a Cultural Resource Survey must be done by the project sponsor and forwarded to the NYS Department of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation for evaluation. Such findings are also to be incorporated in the DEIS. Should you or members of the Town Board have any questions or comments please contact me. Sincerely, Joseph e. Prall, Senior Environmental Analyst Mr. Martin-I think it would also be appropriate to read in the reference memorandum from Alan Koechlein, dated March 9, 1993 I have taken the liberty to offer suggestions for scoping for the Hudson Pointe DEIS by the Town of Queensbury. Terrestrial/Aquatic Inventory - An adequate vegetative/wildlife inventory is required to document the habitat/species associations over the entire project site. The entire site refers to the property boundary of the PUD, wetlands, floodplain and islands in Big Bay; all areas in the immediate vicinity that will receive human use resulting from the project. For vegetation communities, any man-induced sites (i.e. earth extraction site) should also be documented. Particular attention should be paid to threatened, endangered species and species of special concern that do (inventory) or could (habitat-supported) occur on-site. The site is to be inspected this spring and summer for the presence or absence of the Kamer Blue Butterfly and Wild Blue Lupine. Sensitive Zones- Sensitive zones to development and public use are the bluffs, wetlands, floodplain and islands in Big Bay. The above sensitive zones are particularly vulnerable to erosion and/or overuse by people. To date, the floodplain (point) exhibits some evidence of misuse. The addition of two docks with multiple mooring slips along with undefined passive recreation will likely increase public use\abuse of the floodplain and islands. Impact Assessment - The vegetation and wildlife inventory, determinations regarding significant species and habitats, and sensitive areas will become one basis for identifying environmental impacts. The impacts and their significance could include the effect of PUD development on wildlife\habitat associations, threatened or endangered species, erosion management, and impacts on sensitive zones by public\residents. Additional Topics Suggested for the DEIS-Inventory ofDEC-regulated and Federal-regulated freshwater wetlands. Impacts of stormwater managements on land use and wetlands. Construction or changes that may directly or indirectly impact on Clendon Brook. Identification of any need for wildlife corridor maintenance, retention or development. Effect of an increase in the public use of the Hudson River\Big Bay upon its use by waterfowl as a migration corridor. Testing for hazardous substances where the public has dumped debris. Inventory water springs and assess any impact of build-out of the PUD on water quality, if any on the springs. If water quality degradation is anticipated, what might be the impact on the Hudson River. Alan L. Koechlein, Senior Wildlife Biologist Follow-up letter May 13, 1993 by Joseph e. Prall, Project Manager Dear Jim: This letter is a follow-up to our meeting yesterday May 12, 1993, to clarify the Department's staff comments that I forwarded to Supervisor Brandt on March 16, 1993. At the time I sent that letter I was not aware that the project sponsor had already conducted Phase 1 and 2 studies and had received a sign off from the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation for this project. As this information has already been acquired no further studies are necessary and I believe this to be consistent with the intent of the State Historic Preservation Act. In regard to Mr. Koechlein's memo to me, that I enclosed with my March 16, 1993 letter, the comments were the initial concerns raised to be evaluated for their inclusion into the State Environmental Quality Review. They are not necessarily to be interpreted as requiring additional studies but to be incorporated into the DEIS using the existing materials and conclusions. I would refer you to Mr. Koechlein's letter of February 12, 1993 as reflected of this Departments position regarding SEQRA. Also, as I stated, SEQRA only requires evaluating what is likely or probable to be impacted. It is not necessarily a license to seek out all unknowns but to deal with what probably exists. FurtlIer as we mutually understand all correspondence should be directed to me and all staffs position shall be sent via my signature. Sincerely, Joseph C. Prall Mr. Martin-He enclosed a February 12, 1993 letter from Alan Koechlein which is the big packet. (letter on file in the Town Clerk's Office) The next letter is from the Nature Conservancy, Alane Ball, Assistant Director. Dear Mr. Martin: The Nature Conservancy has reviewed the Kamer Blue Butterfly survey prepared last year for this project. Our comments are outlined int he attached correspondence. Since a DEIS is now being prepared, we request that our concerns about the presence and protection of Kamer Blue Butterfly habitat be included in the document. Thank you. Sincerely, Alane Ball. Mr. Martin-She encloses a December 3rd, 1992 letter from Michel Pickering, Assistant Director, Albany Pine Bush Preserve (letter on file in Town Clerk's Office) The last letter is a letter from Jacqueline Bave, dated May 10th, 1993 Conservation Committee Chair, Glens Falls Chapter of the Adirondack Mountain Club. Dear Mr. Martin: The Glens Falls Chapter of the Adirondack Mountain Club wishes to offer input for the SEQRA scoping process regarding the Hudson Pointe Planned Unit Development. We believe the Environmental Impact Statement for this area should thoroughly address the issues of significant habitat and possible presence of the federally protected Karner Blue Butterfly. This endangered species has been found on property adjacent to the planned unit development area (see attached.) Although a survey conducted for Saratoga Associates reported no Kamer Blue Butterflies on the site, the dates of this survey August 20 and 21st, were so close to what the report stated was the end of the typical Kamer Blue presence in Albany (July 20 - August 20) that a new survey is necessary. An extensive and careful search for threatened or endangered plant and animal species is the best way to address these concerns in the Environmental Impact Statement. Sincerely, Jacqueline Bave. Mr. Martin-She attaches an August 5th, 1992 letter from Kenneth L. Kogut, Senior Wildlife Biologist from Dec. (on file in Town Clerk's Office) This constitutes all the correspondence I've received in my office. I'll next read a list of the agencies which were notified. Letter from Attorney Jeffrey 1. Friedland, Miller Mannix, & Pratt, dated May 13th, 1993 (on file Town Clerk's Office) Dear Town Board Members: As you know, we represent Tim Brewer, Robin Brewer, Roland Akins and Emily Akins, who are neighbors of the proposed Hudson Pointe Planned Unit Development. This letter will set forth the issues they believe should be addressed in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement. 1. Surface Geology 2. Topography 3. Groundwater 4. Surface Water 5. Flora 6. Fauna 7. Wetlands 8. Land Use and Zoning 9. Aesthetic Resources 10. Archeological Resources. 11. Electromagnetic Fields 12. Traffic 13. Community Services 14. Noise. Finally, all the standard EIS topics must be included, such as a description of the action, including location, design and lay-out, construction, required approvals, and a thorough discussion of alternatives. As indicated above, this highly intensive Project is located in a unique, scenic area of the Town rich in fragile natural resources. Our clients believe that a thorough and comprehensive environmental review of the Project must contain at the very least the elements described above. Thank you. Very truly yours, Jeffrey 1. Friedland Councilman Tucker-Jim, I have a letter from Mr. Thomas R. Fitzgerald, resident of Sherman Island Road. He would like it made part of the public record because he can't be here tonight. Mr. Martin-Letter dated March 3, 1993 from Thomas R. Fitzgerald. Dear Mr. Brandt: My name is Thomas R. Fitzgerald. My wife Mary, daughter Tara and I live on Sherman Island Road. I would like to take a moment of your time to share my family's feelings regarding the pending Hudson Pointe project. I have attended a few of the town meetings regarding the Hudson Pointe project since it was made public last year. I must admit it generated a lot of concern in our neighborhood. The original concept placed all Hudson Pointe traffic down Sherman Island Road or to the proposed additional access road to Corinth Road at a point west of Sherman island Road. This and other issues were discussed at neighborhood meetings throughout the year. The thmst of neighborhood concern initially was the traffic down Sherman Island Road. There were a few suggestions were provided by members of this community. The Michaels Group have consideration to the traffic concern on Sherman Island Road and proceeded back to the drawing board. The result was what I feel a solution that my family and I felt comfortable with. The new community would be separated from ours with cui de sacs, green buffers and a break away gate at a southern point in Sherman Island Road. I spoke with a few of my immediate neighbors and they also felt comfortable with the revised plan. I became irritated at the town meetings listening to Ms. Sandy Allen's statements that she represents the neighbors. The statement is misleading. I don't know how many she actually represents. Let me make it clear she does not represent me or my family. I am in no way alluding to a lack of concern for environmental issues. I am merely placing this responsibility in the hands of the town government. It is their duty to protect the concerns of the community and enforce town laws, ordinances, etc. They have been successful doing this in the past. I suspect those who raise issues of objection will continue to do so. I am not so naive as to expect this area to remain forever wild. It will be developed. This is inevitable. What is not inevitable is concern for the community by the developer. I feel that Michaels Group proposal for development has given attention to the concern for people living on Sherman Island Road. Sincerely, Thomas R. Fitzgerald, RD4, Sherman Island Road. Mr. Martin-I was just handed one letter from the public. This is from John G. Volk, letter dated May 13, 1993. Dear Town Board Members, Mr. James Martin: We feel certain restrictions must prevail before the proposed Hudson Pointe Project is approved. It is imperative that a complete Environmental Impact Study be conducted each season of the year. Various plants and wildlife mature at different times of the year. The Federal Government has mandated protection of the Lupine plant and Kamer Blue Butterflies which inhabit this area. This is a fragile and sensitive area that will be devastated by such a large development. Boat motors will pollute the wetlands as will the proposed inadequate septic systems for 163 units. There us no doubt ATV's in Nimo's clearing under the power lines, will increase the noise and pollution levels so high as to be a health hazard. There will also be disregard for our property and privacy. There should be no buildings on the point and the wetlands. All questions should be answered now before one shovel of earth is dug up not later on. Also the traffic on Corinth Road and Exit 18 will be horrendous and dangerous. A compromise must be reached and a limit placed on the number of homes established. If done properly this development will be an attractive asset. Very truly yours, Dorothy Volk and John G. Volk. Mr. Martin-I think that is all the correspondence. I'll read in the list of involved or interested agencies that were contacted. The Queensbury Planning Board, Queensbury Water Department, Queensbury Highway Superintendent, Warren County Planning Board, Warren County Department of Public Works, New York State Department of Health, The District Office Glens Falls, Department of Health Corning Tower Building Albany, The Commissioner of the New York State Department of Transportation, Department of Environmental Conservation, Albany Division of Regulatory Affairs, The Commissioner of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation Albany, Mr. Julia Stokes, New York State Office of Parks and Recreation and Historic Preservation. That was all I had, I was going to go to Dick Morse and he can take us through what he has as a Preliminary Scoping Document for the Board to consider. Mr. Dick Morse-Morse Engineering. We have been retained by the Town to assist the Town in preparing the scoping document. What you have in front of you tonight is the Preliminary Draft Scoping Document which we have developed in our organization basically after conversations with the Board, staff, the developer and listening to input from other sources. I think, I'm not sure how you would like me to proceed if you would like me to go over this point by point, Jim what do you think? Mr. Martin-It's really what the board sees as sufficient. Supervisor Brandt-I think it's worth doing. Mr. Morse-What we've done is taken the State format and tried to consolidate it into a document that would reflect what we feel is necessary to be addressed by the developer in this. Mr. Morse read through the Draft Scoping Document for Hudson Pointe (see attached Exhibit A) Mr. Morse-If the Board wishes to discuss anything as I go through this, please feel free to jump in. Mr. Morse referred to Item IV, letter C, noted that these were the latest additions he had at the time of writing the scoping document. The last two items are four letters, ones that I had received from Jim prior to this evemng. Mr. Martin-Do you want to hold offfor any questions for Dick to the end? Supervisor Brandt -You mean from the public? Mr. Martin-Or from the Board. Supervisor Brandt-I think if the Board has questions right now is a good time to put them in. They can also add more if they see them or at the time they see them, I think that way we aren't going to miss anything. Anybody have any questions at this time? Mr. Martin-I suggest that we move on to public input and then maybe any input the project sponsor had before the Board give their final opinions. Supervisor Brandt-It's open to the public for comment at this time. If you would please come up and give us your name on the record. There is a formal record being kept here so we like to have you come up and speak into the microphone be at ease it's not all that formal. Just come and talk to us tell us what you have to say and put your name on the record if you would. PUBLIC COMMENT Ann Ruschalski - I have a letter. I didn't get a chance to drop it off, I thought I would just read the letter. Supervisor Brandt -Sure. Ann Ruschalski - I live on the Corinth Road and I just have a letter that I would like to read. Letter dated May, 13, 1993 Dear Queensbury Town Board Members: We would like to take only a moment of your time to stress the importance of a thorough Environmental Impact Statement on the fragile Hudson Pointe parcel of land. Much time has been spent addressing the many environmental factors involved with this land and the stress this PUD will place on it. Every issue that has been addressed in the past needs to be addressed once again in an honest, unbiased approach. We urge the Town Board to allow Morse Engineering to begin with a clean slate. They need to look at every issue without influence from past studies and their vague conclusions. The issues that need to be addressed are many. Most important to us are the following: Can this land, the Hudson River, and it's vast wetlands sustain and survive this project? Even small mistakes during or after the completion of the project could be devastating to the surrounding ecosystem. This area is irreplaceable. Also, what is the fate of the run-off gorges that lead to the bluffs? Can any storm drain systems prevent the erosion caused by unnatural means? Lastly, the archaeological digs that have been done are only the start of what could be a valuable historical site. Will it have to take a large machinery digging foundations to tum up valuable archaeological finds? And how can you assure the protection of the existing Potter house ruins and the archaeological sites? In conclusion, we, as residents of the Hudson Pointe area, need these questions and all the other issues on the DEIS answered thoroughly. These are times of environmental awareness. These issues should be as much on your mind as they are on ours. Are they? This is the only formation ofland of its kind in Queensbury. If this development is indeed necessary, why not be sure to take the time to do it right to assure the protection of this fragile parcel of land. Sincerely, Annie Ruschalski, Kevin Campbell, Corinth Road, Queensbury. Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Ann, I believe that this Board voted to do this Full Environmental Impact Statement and that's certainly what we're going to do. I have a question when you refer to erosion caused by unnatural means, what are you thinking in terms of? Ann Ruschalski-I'm thinking of the roads that are being put in or houses how the bluffs are going to be filled in. If you've walked back there is no area other than the main road down the center that's flat, I mean it's all up and down hills. If you walk the outline of the Clendon Brook to the wetlands to the point and back through your walking like this the whole time. I'm really concerned of where these houses are going to go something is going to have to be filled in. These bluffs are there because they are natural runoff, I mean they were put there by nature. My concern is once you fill them in where is the runoff going to go so that's what I mean by unnatural.... Supervisor Brandt-Roads, houses, construction things that are going to be built in the project. Ms. Ruschalski-All the filling in the driveways, roads, the putting in the basement, foundations all of that, is that clear? Supervisor Brandt -Yes. Ms. Ruschalski-Thank you. Wayne LaMothe-Assistant Director Warren County Planning Department and serve as staff to the County Planning Board. Mr. Halley as the Chairman of the County Planning Board is not here tonight. Jim will the involved agencies be sent a copy of Mr. Morse's report? Mr. Martin-They certainly can be, yes if you request one. Mr. LaMothe-Okay. What's going to be the comment period relative to this? Mr. Martin-I believe it's up to the Board it was really through tonight, but that can be extended. Supervisor Brandt-Is it the desire that you people want to make more comment? Mr. LaMothe-1 think at last night's County Planning Board Meeting the discussion revolved around the fact that they would like to see what was going to be included as far as the report. The recommendations to be included, I can only say they may have some comments once they see the document. Supervisor Brandt-How often do you meet, when could we handle that? Mr. LaMothe-1 think at last night's meeting we asked to have any comments from the Board within a week. Supervisor Brandt-I think we probably can handle that. Councilman Monahan-Wayne just a comment. The project that the Board saw Warren County Planning Board as far as I'm concerned is immensely different from the project we're looking at now. How is the Board keeping abreast of all the changes that have been made in this project? They are going to need that I would think before they can make comments. Mr. LaMothe-To date officially what we have is a March 10th, letter from Jim Martin itemizes some of the changes to the proposal that the County Planning Board saw. I don't know if this is all inclusive or not so I really don't have an answer to your question. The County Planning Board at this point it is my understanding that they are not taking a position that they should re-review this. That the County Planning Board agenda is set by the local municipality. We have a determination, as I've said March 10th, by the Town Planner that at that point in time it was not felt that the project did not change substantially to require re-review by the County Planning Board. Councilman Monahan-I mention that because I remember reading the minutes and this is just a for instance, one example. One member of the Planning Board was delighted with the project because of the hiking trails and all those things that have now been erased. My point is how are they to make intelligent comments going to become acquainted with the perimeters of the project as it stands right now? Mr. LaMothe-By information that's referred by the Town quite honestly. Councilman Monahan-Do you have the new information about this project as we're looking at it right now? Mr. LaMothe-1 would have to ask Jim, has that been forwarded? Councilman Monahan-Do you have all the maps all the information that we have here? Mr. LaMothe-1 believe the last map that we have was dated sometime in ninety two, I don't know if there is anything more current than that. Mr. Martin-There have been no updates to the map even to reflect the latest changes. Councilman Monahan-I remember asking for an update to iliat map Jim. Mr. Martin-Even the site plans in this book show the sixteen lots one acre on the point they show the hiking trails. Councilman Monahan-I have an objection to that. We're looking at stuff that isn't there anymore and how can we intelligently look at a project. How can Warren County intelligently look at a project for input and comment when we don't even have the correct documentation. I remember specifically requesting that requesting it of Alan Oppenheim and etc. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-Michaels Group, Project Sponsor. To respond to that Mrs. Monahan. As of March 10th, there has been no changes to the map specifically. As you recall and I remember we did have conversations on the phone the changes on the pointe and the reduction in the number of home sites in that area from sixteen to eight and the changes to the trail system. What we discussed was we have not physically gone through all the changes on the plan because we were able to verbally address them that was acceptable to the Board. You specifically requested of us to send a map to you identifying in writing those changes which we did do. Councilman Monahan-That's my whole point Alan so why isn't that also included in this packet? That to me is the project that we're looking at now. If I'm looking at the old project I want to know right now. Mr. Oppenheim-Let me just respond. If you look at all the information in that packet, I can assure you that the changes that have been made to the plan that you see there are identified in writing. They are very basic changes that have been discussed on a number of occasions all positive changes. Reduction in density on the pointe and the one other issue that your talking about the decision to not have a trial system was at the request of the Town Board. Councilman Monahan-I realize this. I'm just trying to get our information in good order. I think Warren County deserves that information in good order too, that's my whole point. That we need to have as part of the record what we are actually looking at. Not the project that existed six, eight, ten months ago. The project that we are looking at today that we are going to address our concerns about. Mr. Oppenheim-I think that was the whole purpose, you know we went great length to assemble all that information in that packet and booklet there. Councilman Monahan-But, we still have the old maps. Mr. Oppenheim-The reason you do have the old maps is we have not changed the maps because you have to appreciate on our end there are a number of changes that we had to go through at great expense and it was acceptable to everybody and discussed and agreed upon that we could address those changes in writing without physically changing the plans. That was something that was agreed upon by all parties involved. Councilman Monahan-Then Jim and Paul, I contend that for the record we have to make some kind of notation that these maps are not the maps that we are talking about today. Mr. Martin-Yes. Councilman Monahan-I again, want to know how Warren County, Wayne how are you going to get the proper information to take back to your board? Mr. LaMothe-1 will refer to General Municipal Law which says that the materials provided to the County Planning Board specifically is that information that is provided by the Town. Mr. Martin-They have all updated aspects of the project. There has been no changes since March 10th. Councilman Monahan-But, they don't have the new maps. Mr. Martin-I don't even have new maps. Your the only one who has a new map Betty, I don't have one either. Councilman Goetz-Maybe you can provide it. Councilman Monahan-It's not an official part of the record until they put it in the record that's my whole point, I'm having a hard problem with this. Attorney O'Connor-Law firm of Little & O'Connor. I really think we're getting the cart before the horse here. The purpose of tonight's meeting is to determine the scope that you want included and covered in the DEIS which will describe in detail the project. The DEIS as its submitted will include all the changes that have been spoken of and have been documented through the various hearings that we've been holding or meetings not necessarily hearings. We've had, I don't know how many meetings trying to determine whether or not the DEIS is going to be required. The only involvement of the County at this point was to make a recommendation as to whether or not this Board should consider a PUD designation for this project. We are right at the very beginning of that. I don't think anything is incomplete you have more before you in a scoping session than most boards ever have. Generally speaking at this point you have rough draft of a map. You have a twelve page Environmental Assessment Affidavit and then we come forth with traffic studies, letters from Water Departments, letters from Highway Departments, letters from DEC, studies as to environmental or endangered species, plants, all of that business. You have the privilege and good fortune of having a lot of that before you with a lot of the homework done. The DEIS is going to be the document that describes the project as we ask for its approval. Councilman Monahan-I just wanted Wayne brought up to date of what's going on. Wayne, I leave it in your hands you know these changes... Attorney O'Connor-Mrs. Monahan if you read the letter of March 12th, you will see that the County Board was brought up to date. I, in fact had a meeting with Pat Tatich from the Board when the walking trail was eliminated, when the ninety three acres were eliminated and the density on the point was stepped back. Advising her of all those issues and asking of whether or not she thought there would be a requirement to look at the project again. Again, when we got to the ninety ninth yard somebody didn't say go back to the first yard line and we were told at that time no. They asked for the changes to be documented by Town staff as opposed to the applicant. That was the purpose of Mr. Martin's letter to them and we went forward from that point. I think the record very clear that they've been kept aware of the changes as the project has come to the point its come to today. Councilman Monahan- I just wanted Wayne to be up to date on all of this if they are only going to have a short time to make comments for the scoping session. Mr. LaMothe-As I've said, we have received information from the Town. I can't tell you if we don't have something I don't know about. I assume we have created a dialogue with Jim. I assume his letter of March 10th, identifies the changes to date, the significant changes to date. If there was anything in addition to that we would of heard from him. Attorney O'Connor-Are there any specific areas that your Board asked to be addressed in the DEIS at this point that your aware of that has not been addressed or has not been referred to by the Towns consultant Mr. Morse? Mr. LaMothe-Okay, that was addressed to me? Attorney O'Connor-Your here speaking on behalf of the county that's my question. Mr. LaMothe-At this point there is one other and I don't know if that was included and that was going to be my next point. At this point in time Finch Pruyn is under consideration for re-licensing of their hydro facility by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. ....has requested that Finch Pruyn undertake some mitigation measures for recreational activities in the Hudson River from the Feeder Dam area up water, however, you want to refer to that and some of the fish entrapment areas and fish habitats be addressed and be protected. I would just ask that the assessment undertaken by this project or be undertaken an awareness of Finch Pruyn's mitigation measures and recommendations that they are given and that these not be in contradiction with one another or potential contradiction. Supervisor Brandt-For my information are these matters of providing a constant flow a base flow in the river so that the hydro projects can't shut it down and drain out parts of the river? Mr. LaMothe-That is one. They are also talking about some sedimentation controls. Councilman Goetz-I have a question for Wayne. How active a role does the Warren County Planning Board Members take in consideration of a project like this or is most of the work done by the staff? Mr. LaMothe-In a project of this scope the actual board members for the most part get quite involved. Six or seven walked the site with the project sponsor. We spent a couple of hours out there along with a special workshop meeting of the County Planning Board dedicated just to this project to review materials. The County Planning Board traditionally conducts a business meeting that does not allow for public comment or a presentation style format by a project sponsor. For this project and for a couple others, but it's not a common occurrence for this project. They had a workshop session where they invited the project sponsor to do a presentation to walk the site to become as informed as they possibly could at that point in time on the scope of the project, I would say they were quick involved on this one. That really constitutes the only issues I would ask either be included or that the County Planning Board be kept informed. Thank you. Emily Akins-Queensbury. This is just a few comments that I want to make. I mean, every time you walk down in there it's puzzling there are so many ravine's in there are they going to be filled in? With the bluff right there, the high steep bluffs that's what makes it so unique and it keeps it protected because people aren't going up and down and around it and all over it right now. You get the development in there, I don't think your going to, you know prevent erosion you won't protect it. I don't see how you can, you really can't. Yesterday we were down there between six and seven and I can't say for certain, but DEC should be able to look into this or someone, I think it was possible there was an eagle there. I think it was a sub-adult and it was to big to be a hawk. It was on the south side of the point right in the bluff area. This morning he was there again the markings show a sub-adult eagle only he was farther away this morning I couldn't see him as well with the binoculars. Eagles have been seen in the area around the dam through the winter months if they are going to go into there and are going to breed there when they breed they don't leave they are going to stay there they are stubborn they don't want to go off even though there is a disturbance and that's how we lost them, I think before our eagles went. Walking around the point there is a young woodcock a whole clutch of them just about ten feet off. Then more or less I've seen a mallard or a black duck, I don't know which it was it was on a nest, the top of the bluff that's where it was, I have to stop and get my notes straight. Also, there are small bird nestings that are on the ground, I see nestings there which if you disturb them they fly off their nest and they take off they are right in the ravine's. All of this, I don't really see, are you going to fill the ravine's in is that what you are going to do? Mr. Oppenheim-No we aren't anywhere near the ravine's? Mrs. Akins-Nothing near them at all? Mr. Oppenheim-No. Mrs. Akins-I can't believe it won't disturb. There are eagles in there that it will not disturb them so they will not breed they will just sit there and wait and walk and that's all they will want to do because they don't leave. I guess that's about it. Attorney Jeff Freidland-Represents the Brewers and Akins. I think you also know we submitted a rather lengthy letter today and I'm not going to waste your time by going through each and ever item in the letter. The scoping document that we submitted before covers some of these things. But, I do want to emphasize some of what we think are the more important items that the EIS should consider. The first one is water both surface water and groundwater. Groundwater for the obvious reasons of protecting groundwater especially considering this is an aquifer recharge area. The surface water you have to realize that the Hudson River is there, Clendon Brook, and the eighteen acre DEC designated wetland and we think that the project has the potential to adversely impact these surface waters and groundwaters for a variety of reasons. Again, a letter goes to all of them, but I just want to mention a few of them here just to emphasize them. These waters could be impacted adversely by the hundred and twenty five odd individual septic systems that will be placed on the sandy soil. There is a community septic system that is proposed for forty townhomes. There are stormwater runoff both during and after construction. There is a potential for leaching from the herbicides and pesticides that will be used on the lawns. There is a potential for adverse impacts from construction for access to the river and by the actual recreational use at the river by the project residents and the use of boats being used at the two, forty foot docks. There is also the potential for adverse impact on water by the salt that goes into maintenance. In particular the wetlands may be adversely impacted by the erosion of the very sandy steep bluffs that are directly above the wetlands as well as from disturbance from construction. The second area I want to emphasize is one I just eluded to and that's the unique geological feature the steep sandy bluffs right above the wetland. We believe the EIS must consider the possible adverse impacts on the bluffs from a couple of things, possible from removal of trees and vegetation during construction from other disturbance during construction and from stormwater runoff. Another area that we would like to emphasize is the flora and fauna. As our letter indicates and as I think somebody else indicated earlier there is a variety of unique and/or rare endangered species plants and animals on the site. Our letter mentions a few of them somebody before mentioned the possible existence of bald eagles. But, the one I like to mention and emphasize is the Kamer Blue Butterfly and the Blue Lupine upon which it depends. The Blue Lupine has been identified on the site the Kamer Blue Butterfly mayor may not be on the site, but it is protected by Federally Law and by New York State Law and we believe the EIS should thoroughly examine it, identify and analyze whether this project will affect this protected species. I guess the last one I would like to mention is one I believe was not mentioned at all in the scoping document and that's the effect of EMF (electromagnetic fields) from the transmission lines that are on the site. I believe at the last meeting, I believe the project sponsor I'm not sure alluded to a State standard for EMF. What we found out since then is there is no State health base standard for EMF there is an interim standard. Okay PSC (Public Service Commission) has come out with an interim standard, but they've expressively said and so has DOH it is not a health base standard it's only designed to insure that future transmission lines generate no field stronger than the existing lines. The studies that have come out they show a potential link between EMF and cancer particular childhood cancer. In light of the fact there is no state health base standard in these studies we think that the EIS should thoroughly identify an analyze the potential risk from EMF that's basically it. I guess, I'djust like to sum up by saying we believe that this is a highly intensive intrusive project in a unique fragile area of the Town. As lead agency, I'm sure you know the Town Board has the obligation to thoroughly identify and analysis and take the so called hard look at all the potential environmental impacts. We think that in order to do this to meet this obligation the areas I mentioned tonight as well as all of the areas in the letter which I gave you this morning should be included in the EIS. I thank you for your time. Attorney Dusek-I have a question for Mr. Freidland. For the record Paul Dusek, Attorney for the Town. Mr. Freidland you mentioned a number of items that you think should be reviewed in the environmental impact statement some of which I notice, in fact I think all of which except for the EMF that are mentioned in Mr. Morse's outline. I also noticed that Mr. Morse refers to some extent studies analysis that he feels should be undertaken. Do you at this time have any suggestions or recommendations to the Town in terms of kinds of studies and analysis that you would recommend in connection with these items that you've mentioned? Also, do you have any kind of recommendations as to methodology or the nature and extent of the information that should be gathered? Attorney Freidland-I don't have a recommendation as I sit here tonight for the methodology or the studies, I'm an Attorney not an Engineer. But, I think that the Town should employ qualified technical people to come up with the methodology and reports that are needed. If you like we just received the scoping document like everybody else tonight and I'm going to go home and look at it tonight and if we have any comments on it or suggestions we will certainly submit them to the Town. Robin Brewer-Again, everyday as I think about this there are so many different concerns. I'm not going to hit them all, I know that they are all in the letter and taken care of. Just one item which today is basically thinking about the typography of the land and the real fragile area within the point and above the wetlands. Mr. Oppenheim is it, stated that they wouldn't fill in any of the ravine's. I like to ask Mr. Oppenheim if he could give me a number about how many ravine's are on the point or Mr. O'Connor? Mr. Oppenheim-I would like to hear all your comments that's not the purpose of tonight's meeting. Mrs. Brewer-Basically what I did was before we came I walked down and counted them with some friends of mine as well. On the Hudson River side you can find four large gorges it's all pure sand not only cutting of vegetation would cause massive erosion, but any type of walking on those bluffs. If you even were to take a few footprints along there you'll find that the top layer of leaves and needles fall down and the sand beneath begins to crumble with the bluffs. I do have pictures if anyone would like to look at who have not been down and actually looked at the sites you can see the root systems and the sand that's already being eroded within the roots systems. There are four large gorges on the Hudson River side. As you go around the bay to the wetland side the typography of the land tends to fall that way we can come up with three large gorges. One large gorge has four to five other ravine's, tributaries like a leaf going into it. There is a second large gorge and the third largest gorge goes all the way into the center of the property within that you walk up and down both sides and you are going to find at least five more ravine's as contributories going into those gorges. I find it hard to believe when your talking about stormwater management it really has to be a detailed plan for Morse Engineering to really come up with alternatives. If you even talk about leaching, I know Mr. Brandt made comments to leaching it's a river in a matter of a month this leaching will be in the ocean. It's the wetlands it's going to set there on that side it's not going to go into the ocean it's going to possible destroy. There are a lot of ravine's, I don't want to ask you when you've been there, but you really need to be there to understand the large scope that you are dealing with. There is going to be a tremendous amount of problem within that point and along the wetlands as well. I guess that's my point for the day. Mr. Steve Chagnon-Palmer Drive. My family has been on iliat river for over sixty years. We have watched a lot of people come and blend in with the area and watched the area be impacted by these people and watched nature being driven out. I've watched a couple species of fish that are no longer there you can't catch them anymore they are not there. There is no more Ling. You don't see anymore river otter, you see a few bank beaver left, you don't see very many. We did see some deer and turkey. You see a few great blue herrings now, but not like they used to be. The woman who spoke earlier about the eagles she is seeing eagles. They've been there for a long time, but some years you don't see any at all for a long time five, six years, sometimes. What I'm watching is I'm watching the Town grow and that part of the world up around Big Bay has always been a back water. We used to call it just a poor mans Lake George because when people had money they built up around Glen Lake and built up around Lake George and the blue collar people the working class people they didn't have that kind of money and they built up along Big Bay. Most of those people are pretty close to nature and they live pretty close to the ground and didn't disturb too much. But, over the years with the coming of the Northway and all the other side roads that came in a lot of the quality oflife has degraded very seriously. That's what we're talking about here we're talking about some corporation making profits or somebody's quality of life. What I'm asking you to consider is and I haven't heard anybody mention it yet is the people who had their sweat equity in that ground up there it's their major investment, it's their home, it's their life, I haven't heard anybody measuring or wanting to measure that yet. All we're talking about is some engineering studies and nobody is talking about how much profit or whatever it is and weighing Nimo's profit or somebody's quality of life. Nobody is talking about checking one of the most endangered species you have along that river it's called the taxpaying native, I think that we should kind of look at that. Over the past ten years the boat traffic on that river has gotten so serious it's to scary for kids to go in the river often. I don't know if you've ever seen a kid get hit with an outboard motor or not, but it's not a pretty sight. When you are talking about putting a major population impact on this river and this stretch of the river where the boat population on the water it's going to be more than triple what it is today. Right now, today it's very difficult for us to get any kind of management on that water. There are people sitting here in the audience that, I know have been chased off their docks by boaters. My kids have been chased out of the water by boaters. We can't get police down there to support us. I don't know what we're going to do, I know myself if my kid gets hit by a boat I'm not really going to like it a whole lot and I will probably do the best I can to take umbrage somehow. I haven't heard this being addressed, I haven't heard this being looked at somebody wanting to look at this in studies. I think this is very very important because what's more important Nimo's profits or some kids life who gets hit by a boat? Right now we see on any given weekend day it's not unusual to look out and see six to seven water skiers in a very short stretch of river less than a couple hundred yards and that's extremely dangerous. None of the people who are in those boats live along the river they have access from other places. We had a Warren County Boat Launch at one time and thank God Warren County finally closed it down because we're getting the overflow from Lake George. The boats that were coming down they are going down this narrow stretch of river they were so big that just the water that takes to cool the engine almost dropped the water level in the river a foot it's just horrendous. This type of impact, I haven't heard anybody talk about yet they are kind of glazing over it. When your talking about putting boats in and stuff like that, that was one of the richest fisheries there was around. Through the mismanagement of the water flow by the existing dam operators there is hardly any fish left in there anymore. I've watched river drives with the logs and I've watched all kinds of things hit that river the river has always come back. But, when you start to allow people to move in there permanently and when you start to allow the populations of boats and the impact that boats have on this very frail environment your starting to see something that the river can't come back on. I'm asking you to really seriously consider one, if you have to have the buildings up there and we have to have the impact to limit the access to the river, if we could eliminate it I'd love to see that, but I don't think we can. There are some serious studies that have to be, serious questions just for the people not only the endangered butterflies and things. But, I think the rest of the people also because if the butterflies go the rest of us will have to go sooner or later or we're just going to have a blacktop river and I don't think anybody would really like that. We have a quality oflife here that's been very high and the more we have a bigger pollution impact the lower our quality of life goes. I'm really asking you again, what do we want, do we want a higher corporate profits or do we want to maintain our quality oflife? Some of us have been up there and put a lot of time into having a good high quality of life. I'm reminded of a statement one time made by Will Rogers. It said God gave us only so much land and it's our responsibility to respect it and protect it from abuse. I trust your judgement in doing that and I'm asking you to do that and think of us the rare and danger species called the taxpaying native. Supervisor Brandt -Steve, before you go let me ask a question. On that section of the river where you are seeing a big increase in large power boating how are they accessing that river? Mr. Chagnon-Right now they are coming in on the South Glens Falls side. Supervisor Brandt-There is a boat launch on the South Glens Falls side? Mr. Chagnon-I don't know how controlled it is. I know that we have called the Sheriffs Department and I say, we, there are a lot of people sitting right here who have done this they almost laugh at you. I really don't know what the solution is but, right now what everybody's answer is it's a county line and nobody wants to touch it, it's a hot potato just as it is. When you start to put something like that there you are really making a bad situation horrendously worse. Supervisor Brandt - I have to agree with you. I think that motor boats especially large motor boats on the river they don't belong there because it's a very small body of water actually it gets overwhelmed with power boats in a hurry. I think there is law on a state level to regulate that. I mean, Saratoga County and Warren County, Queensbury, and Moreau have been empowered to regulate boats on bodies of water. I think that if we got together maybe we could do something and I think your touching on a problem we ought to all address. That's the management of the river and the power boats, I think it is an abuse. Mr. Chagnon-I think so and I appreciate your concerns about it. The thing is the management that I've seen so far is way short. Once in a while you will see a patrol boat go up and down, but usually it's in the low traffic times and like a Wednesday afternoon at two o'clock nobody there. Nobody goes up and down though on Saturday afternoon at three to five or six o'clock at night when there is a horrendous amount of traffic. Supervisor Brandt-And the community has got to start working together and looking at that. Mr. Chagnon-Even just for what's existing. When you are talking about the potential of this kind of impact it's one, a very dangerous situation and two, the water quality and everything else on the river is going to have a huge detrimental impact which I haven't heard anybody here really wanting to study and look or look at. Supervisor Brandt - I think this Board, I don't know if you are aware of it in the previous discussions certainly made a point that they didn't want this development to have access for a boat launch at this site. What has been discussed so far is you have to carry the boats it's not a boat launch where you can launch large boats it would be small boats that you have to carry, but that also could have an impact. Mr.Oppenheim-Non-motorized. Supervisor Brandt-What's that? Mr.Oppenheim-Non-motorized. Supervisor Brandt-We're sensitive to that and we have been sensitive to that. But, obviously there is an abuse and if there is a place to access like South Glens Falls and we better look at that too, and talk to the other communities about it. Mr. Chagnon-Thank you. Councilman Monahan-Mr. Chagnon do you know whether or not there is suppose to be a size limit on the boats that are launched from the South Glens Falls side? Have they made any regulations? Mr. Chagnon-There is none. Supervisor Brandt-There is none today, but there ought to be. Mr. Chagnon-The thing is you are seeing this big what they call cigarette boats, I've seen them out there as long as twenty five feet. I'm amazed that somebody would have a boat, I mean that's a lot of money and to stick it on the river like that where there are deadheads and stuff. We're always thinking about putting more deadheads out to kind of cheer them along. That's a huge investment your are talking about and I've watched people put a boat in and from my camp to the dam it's about maybe a mile and a quarter it's up around the point it's not very far and you can hear this thing forever. You can hear it from come up around the bend they are putting in just below the Northway bridge someplace, you can hear them coming. They come up and you know they haven't got very far to go and they are going by me at least 60 m.p.h. which on that little puddle of water it's the impact. The other thing is that I would like somebody who is doing these studies to see what the bank erosion is because I've watched a horrendous amount of bank erosion from big motors going up and down that river. But, anyway's you'll hear them they will go up and you know they are coming back. I've watched one person drive back and forth ten times just burning gas the docks are all flopping around. If they are out in the middle of the river that's okay, you've got to live with it. But, when you get three or four of these people going doing the same thing you create a horrendous chop. The most dangerous thing of the whole thing that scares the living day lights out of me are the water skiers. When you get one or two water skiers people kind of got a pretty good control. You are talking about a channel that is less than a hundred yards wide at this point where you can ski. The thing is it comes real close to the docks and you've got kids that are six, seven, I call them water rats they are great kids they learn to swim when they are three years old. Eight o'clock in the morning they are down in the river you pull them out at seven, eight o'clock at night they go to bed they do the same thing the next day, you pull them out for food it's one of the most ideal places for kids to be. You don't see those kids fooling around with drugs you don't see those kids getting into a lot of trouble it's an ideal life. I can't see somebody making a few million dollars and having to sacrifice that it's not worth it to me. Of course, it's not my money that's being made, but on the other hand it is my kids and it's my neighbors kids and it's real important for us to protect that. The thing is that these water skiers will come in and they'll come in a lot closer to me to you to a dock. Here you've got these kids that can swim like crazy they don't walk up and down the road they swim up and down and their in the water all the time. I've seen them just get missed and I mean your talking about less than a yard. When a boat goes by and gets less than a yard, there is a huge wake your danm lucky the kids come up and they are good swimmers but, it's so hazardous. It's so frustrating you go in and call the Sheriffs Department and say, hey we got these crazy people there by the time we get a response those people are hiked and gone. We don't have anything down there where you can do that. You've got a choice of doing crazy things which you don't want to do, but where are we at? We got this problem now without a hundred and sixty some odd other units of people up here with a zillion other boats. They can say that they've got to carry the boats down, but I know right now from just my experience of growing up around here if I'm going to live on some water some place I want to get a boat on it I'm going to get the biggest motor I can get down there somehow and put it on there. I know that you can take and carry a boat down those banks and you can put a thirty or forty horse motor on there without too much of a problem even though you've got to carry it cause that's how we get our boats in the water now. Unknown-There is a ravine you can drive right down in there, too. Mr. Chagon- That's right even easier you back the trailer down zip off you go. I don't care what these guys are trying to say just kind of check their eyes if their brown you know their full of it right up to there. If their blue you know it's empty space and check their shoes because they're probably going to walking through it real deep and they'll have brown socks cause the chances of truth coming out are real limited. Thank you. Councilman Goetz-Thanks. I have a question for Dick Morse. On my list of concerns I did have the impact on the shore by dock installation. Is it itemized in your report here? Mr. Morse-No. What we did ask for is the applicant to quantify where the docks would be located on the site plan and how they intended to access that. Councilman Goetz-Is that under number 3(c), Design and Layout? Mr. Morse-Yes. Concept plan showing locations of buildings, parking, docks and stormwater and drainage should be included. I think some place else we've discussed it also. Councilman Monahan-Dick can I suggest when you look at docks you look not at conventional docks, but the canoe docks like that are put in on Feeder Canal. That means you can't tie a very big boat up, but you also got the problem of how your going to prevent them from anchoring out in the river so, please think of that. Mr. Morse-What we're doing here and I think you are aware it's just a coping document. They will be coming back with data in the draft format at which time we have an opportunity to review that data. Councilman Monahan-But, these are some of the problems that we need to look at. Councilman Goetz-One of my concerns any additional archeological site inspection needed. I wonder does this letter from Mr. Prall, DEC of May 13th, his comments in there are about the New York State Office of Parks and Recreation and Historic Preservation. Does that mean that they are not requiring any additional archeological? Mr. Martin-That's correct. They are satisfied with Chipo signing off on this that's their usual stance. They do not except any further investigation. Councilman Goetz-We can require more is that it? Mr. Martin-Yea. Councilman Goetz-I remember in the public hearing that we had that it was a big concern that maybe not all of that had been done to satisfaction. Am I remembering that correctly? Mr. Martin-My last recollection of this is, I talked to a representative at the Office of Historic Preservation directly and it is their view that archeological digs are not necessary on the shoreline as they were not thought to be areas of permanent settlement due to the flooding especially in this area of the river the permanent settlements were along the top of the bluff. That is why they do not require archeological investigations of the shoreline especially in light of the fact there is no development occurring down here beyond the docks. Mr. Morse-That is another reason why we ask the applicant to delineate where they intend to access and where they are headed with paths etc. Councilman Monahan-Jim if I recall correctly through our own Town Historian who certainly knows this area much better than Chipo does, did express some concerns. Mr. Martin-We can always ask for more. Councilman Goetz-I don't want to do it unnecessarily. I don't know that much about archeological digs, but I don't know, I sort of remembered there could of been more done. Is that something that we have to ask for now in scoping? Councilman Monahan-I think you can tell Dick that your aware that you may be wanting more information. Councilman Goetz-I just want to be satisfied that I have all the information on that. Mr. Morse-I review the documentation and I've read the correspondence and I've talked to Jim. What I gleaned out of the information why in this document I only ask for revisiting of that data was that there were two points. Number one, and apparently everyone was in agreement with this at least the experts that were involved in the previous discussion. There would be development at the top of the bluff and we have canvassed that found some areas of impact and there has been a mitigation plan proposed for that. Then there was a previous statement to that in that initial phase one that if there was to be development along the shoreline that it would be probably within a hundred feet of the shoreline. When we're talking about prehistoric shoreline that's not what we have there today because of damming of the river etc. The shoreline is totally re-contoured compared to what it was. My thought process that went into that, I said well that's what they are probably evaluating they've basically roped that lower area off. Mr. Martin-The other thing I'd like to call attention to and I can't stress that enough and either can Mr. Prall and it's the last paragraph of the first page of his letter. Also, as I stated SEQRA requires evaluating what is likely or probable to be impacted. It is not necessarily a license to seek out all unknowns but to only deal with what probably exits. Councilman Goetz-So they've identified the archeological whatever's in the areas that they are going to develop is that it, they've already done that? Mr. Morse-They have quantified the areas and Chipo was satisfied with that and they are going to leave the mitigation plan as to not develop on them and put snow fence up during the construction. Is that correct? Mr. Oppenheim-Yes. Councilman Monahan-Dick, I would suggest that you talk to our Town Historian, Dr. VanDyke before you leave this subject completely. Mr. Morse-The area that she brought out to my recollection of the data and I'm not going to do scanning that right now was that she was concerned with the protection, I think it's called the Potter foundation during the construction period. Councilman Monahan- I believe an old railroad line, if I recall. Mr. Morse-The old railroad line is very visible. I've walked it fell over it, you know it's very difficult to miss. Of course, it's there there will be disturbance but, Chipo seems to be satisfied with..... Councilman Goetz-This is the first time I've ever done a scoping, but when the reports presented do we see alternatives for many of the concerns? Mr. Morse-We request them. Councilman Goetz-You've got a whole section on that. Supervisor Brandt-I'd like to reopen it to the public and invite any other input. Attorney Freidland-Ijust have one comment to the archeological concerns. Although the State Office of Parks Recreation and Historic Preservation has looked at a couple of studies and has identified some sites I like to emphasize the Town Board as lead agency in its discretion can certainly ask for more. If there hasn't been enough done there might be more sites out then you need more studies done. I think Mr. Brewer has something to say. Mr. Brewer-I just want to show you the pictures that Robin was talking about the slopes. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else while we pass these around? Sterling Akins-Corinth Road. In talking about these archeological sites. I know from personal experience that on Potter point there was a big sand pit about fifty feet from the shore and that used to be filled with flint chipping's. Every time it would rain when I was a kid you could go down there and pick up flint chips by a tobacco can full. I don't think anybody's done anything down there. If you start building docks down there and get a lot of traffic your going to destroy anything that's there without even knowing what's there. In fact, I even had a man and I think he's with the Glens Falls or was he's an older gentlemen he went down there and dug one time and he found fire pits where they had chip arrowheads. But, they are a lot closer to the river than what anybody realizes because of this change in water level. The Feeder Dam wasn't there and that was probably just a fast stretch of river down through there. I know we used to troll up through there for walleye and it was all rock bottom. Supervisor Brandt -Sterling what your talking about is on the lower section below the big bluff... Mr. Akins-That's right out on the point. Supervisor Brandt-And that lower point. Mr. Akins-I've looked and looked and I can't find it now. But, I've got a picture I carry of my wife we used to stop there and picnic a lot of time. It was just like white sand there then and it's all filled in now with pine trees and needles you can't hardly see where it was. But, it was right behind where that camp that was out on the point. It was right behind there it's probably six or eight feet lower than the rest of the point. Mr. Morse-What was the diameter? Mr. Akins-Bigger than that. Fifty feet or seventy five feet. Mr. Morse-I think I've found it. Mr. Akins- There was all kinds of flint it wasn't just grey flints you would find white and all kinds of flint in there. Mr. Morse-Halfway between the bay and the river on the end point? Mr. Akins-Yea. Mr. Morse-Okay, I know where you are talking about. Councilman Goetz- I just remembered one other thing. In the letter from Mr. Freidland the problem of junk being deposited is that addressed in your scoping? Mr. Morse-There was the question of testing for potential toxic materials where debris had been dumped. In my walk the debris that I found, you know in one area, I think there was like an old refrigerator or something like that, I don't know if I visited all the debris sites. But, in my mind I think it just needs to be cleaned up. The developer no doubt in the course of development would clean it up. Councilman Goetz-Just take it and clean it up? Mr. Morse-At some point they will probably do a phase one on the project. Mr. Oppenheim-It's done now. Mr. Morse-It's already been done. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else who would like to speak? Robin Brewer-Just one particular part about the archeological sites also, the conservation easement. I think what it might be really for the Town to really have an outside person an archeologist who is not working, who doesn't work for developers in a sense to really check the conservation easements themselves do they need to be bigger? I'm not just saying it just from my point, but from other sources as well. Supervisor Brandt -Specifically for the archeological sites. Mrs. Brewer-Right. The archeological sites that have already been found. I'm sure there are people and groups of people if the Town would research it a little bit who would do it for free. Who would work on the weekends it would fit into your time frame as well it wouldn't hold things up. But, to be sure that those conservation easements were made big enough that they weren't too close to lot lines etc. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else who would like to speak? Don't be shy now's the time. Ms. Ruchalski-Just from here along with what Emily has said about the variety of wildlife and that. Just, Monday night behind our house and we live right next to Foothill Road, behind us would be where if you walked through the woods, what about hundred yards or so you hit Sherman Island Road we're right there we found two Pileated Woodpeckers. We're talking, I mean they are like this big and I have never seen them they were gorgeous, I have pictures. Supervisor Brandt-They are smaller than that, but they do look big. Ms. Ruschalski-No, I'm serious. Supervisor Brandt -Your talking like a fisherman. Ms. Ruschalski-I have pictures they are big. Supervisor Brandt-They are big. Ms. Ruschalski-I know they are not endangered, but they are wonderful. If you start putting houses in back there you're not going to have those, I mean these things are huge. Supervisor Brandt-I know. Ms. Ruschalski-Also, to mention the Pink Lady Slippers which are not endangered and they are not threatened, but they are protected and I have a photograph of some of them that are back there. I know these aren't the endangered plants not yet, but the more developments you put in animals like this are going to leave and they will be endangered within our area because they won't be there anymore. So, it's just kind of just a comment to what Emily was mentioning the disappearance. Steve mentioned the disappearance of species because of due to the development. Mr. Chagnon-Just to add to what your saying. Pileated Woodpeckers are considered an unusual bird they are not rare, but they are not common either. Also, they are migratory, but they spend a lot of time there, they will nest in the same place year after year. We have had some of their nesting sites seriously disturbed by the trees cut down where they nest in. They are getting forced out of the area and other parts along the river not necessarily in that section. But, their nesting sites have been moved over the years by attrition of man's encroachment. I'm glad to hear that they are up in that section now, I know further down the river they are gone. So, it's something to consider in your studies. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else? Barry White-Resident, Sherman Island Road. I'm hearing a lot of what ifs this and what ifs that, how it could impact. My question is what if this project doesn't go through some other developers come in and they chip away at it a little at a time? Or other considerations are given such as logging it off which, I believe would be feasible if the people own the land and they want to have it logged they could have it logged what happens to all the runoff then that won't even be addressed? Things are being mitigated now all the concerns that are being raised are being addressed in one forum or another. What I worry about is if one developer doesn't do it and ten do where we're going to end up as the people who live there? Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else? We're asking your input for things that should be addressed in this environmental assessment the board has decided to have the developer do. Does the board itself have any other input? Councilman Monahan-I have some comments Mike. I walked the site for the second time this past week. The last time was in the fall this time was in the spring as you know it's quite dry right now. I'm very concerned about where the line is going to be drawn along the top of the bluff. There is nothing there that helps me when I go out to see it where that line is going to be drawn there is no stakes, no ribbons, no anything. That also includes the fifty foot conservation easement within people's property lines that they are not going to be able to develop in. The ravine's are very very steep. I walked down one of these that Robin Brewer put here by hanging on to trees and trying to do as little damage as possible to the fertility of the soil. One ravine I didn't attempt to get up in the first place, I thought we probably call West Glens Falls Rescue Squad while I was in the middle of a heart attack and secondly, I knew I was going to damage the soil much to much and perhaps cause an erosion problem. So, this brings up what are we going to use how are we going to be sure that those very steep banks are stabilized that there is no impact on them? I have five children and a multitude of grandchildren. I sat down there on the shore and looked up and said, boy would my kids love to make a slide going right down through here, a dirt slide, a mud slide, and it could be done very easily you take some plastic, etc. How are we going to prevent that because once you do your going to start erosion that's going to take those banks right and left. How are we going to enforce no tree cutting and no encroachment on the steep banks? You know, we're talking about footpaths, we're talking about steps. Anyone who knows the Adirondacks knows a lot of our national parks they've talked about even stopping letting people come in to certain areas because of foot traffic has done such an impact and it's starting to do so much damage. I've already mentioned the boat docks and I think we should look at the type that they use at the Feeder Canal. I'm not even sure if there should be any there at all because of the impact that's going to happen. The ravine's we've got to protect and make sure they are not filled it because the siltation into the Hudson River will be terrible. I, also have in my hand the DEC Protected Native Plants revised March 1990. At my request two Directors of the Audubon Society, one the Conservation Chair accompanied me. I will list off some of the plants we found in a very cursory study of the area. The Blue Lupine is there. The Blue Lupine is not in the corridor, it is in the corridor off Nimo's site, but it's also on Nimo site, I'm not going to divulge the area that I found it in now, there are significant numbers of Blue Lupine there. I don't know if you want the latin name or the regular names for the flowers and I'm going to read off just a few. The Maystar, Solomon's Seal, Wooden Anemone, several species of Violets, Pyssisserba, Yarrow, Wild Sarsaparilla, Pink Lady Slipper, Wild Lupine, One Sided Pyrola, Donny Rattlesnake Orchid, Meadow Rue, Partridge Berry, Running Groundpine, Tree Club Moss, Stiff Club Moss, Running Ground Cedar, Tree Moss. The majority of those and I haven't had a chance to cross check all of them are in this book three of them are in our Master Plan. The Pink Lady Slipper locally significant. The One Sided Priola locally distinct. The Donny Rattlesnake Orchid locally significant. So, we do have an area that is gloriously rich in the native kind of plants and the plants that are significant to this whole State actually. It's a delight to walk through it. I'm not questioning Nimo's right to develop their land, I am just saying that it's got to be treated with respect. Some density may have to be moved to make sure that we don't damage some of these very significant areas. There does need to be a very good study done and done at different times of the year of flora and fauna that's on that site. Mike, I didn't find the banana plant. Supervisor Brandt -You didn't find what? Councilman Monahan-I didn't find the banana plant. I mean if I'd been there longer maybe I could of. Supervisor Brandt-Lady Slippers are all over the sand flats. It's a interesting concept to say you can't develop anymore of West Glens Falls because of Lady Slippers. By God, I can remember clearing when I ran the bulldozer when we redid Route 9, at Exit 19, there was an enormous number at that time of Lady Slippers, I think there is a mall there now. I mean, let's get down to what the Law is, there is plants. Any how, any other comments? Then, I'm going to close the public hearing and I thank you for your input. We'll factor that in now and come up with a document. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED 9: 15 P.M. Mr. Martin-I'd like to end at least with a agreed upon time that Dick could come up with the Final Scoping Document mutually agreed upon. It was the agreed to have public comment until May 20th, 1993 and have Mr. Morse submit the final document on Friday, May 28th, 1993. It was the decision of the Town Board to hold a Special Town Board Meeting on Tuesday, June 1st, 1993 at 7:00 p.m. to discuss the Final Scoping Document on Hudson Pointe. DISCUSSION HELD Attorney Dusek-Presented proposed Resolution Setting Public Hearing on Proposed Amendment to Sign Ordinance (Chapter 140 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury) to Board members. Noted that a request was made by Town Board members to review and develop an amendment to legislation that would allow the Town to allow Welcome Americade Banners around the Town for free or other similar type events. Also, understood the object to allow it by private persons not governmental signs. It was the decision of the Town Board not to take any action regarding this resolution at this time. DISCUSSION HELD Deputy Town Clerk O'Brien-Presented Report of Examination to Town Board members, noting it was on file in the Town Clerk's Office. Questioned if the Board had any additional comments. It was the decision of the Town Board to put a notice in the paper. No further action taken. On motion, the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully Submitted, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury