1994-11-23
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
NOVEMBER 23, 1994
8:37 AM.
MTG.#67
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Supervisor Fred Champagne
Councilman Nick Caimano
Councilman Dr. R. George Wiswall
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT
Councilman Betty Monahan
Councilman Carol Pulver
WORKSHOP
NORTHQUEENSBURYSEWER
Mr. John Salvadore-Gave a presentation to the Town Board regarding an alternative solution to the No.
Queensbury Sewer proposal...using a demo he showed a working system to place alum into private septic
systems...noting this is a simple system no large cost factors to the residents...
Councilman Caimano-Questioned if the chemical are available to the public...
Mr. Salvadore-Indicated that they are available...
Executive Director Martin-RE: No. Qsby. Sewer Project - I think there is a substantial chance here for there
to be serious cost over runs on the installation of the central system...there has not been enough in depth
analysis for the physical conditions that exist at this specific location...
Councilman Caimano-Well one thing that was brought up was the blasting, it is going to require blasting
there is no question about that.
Executive Director Martin-Given the proximity of the dwellings to the street there is going to be a lot of
damage being done it cannot be avoided. The other thing that has not been addressed at all is the individual
hook up to the lateral, some of those laterals are going to cost as much as twenty thousand dollars I think to
install on an individual basis.
Mr. Dick Sage-The Environmental Committee talked about this Monday night while we have no argument
with the fact that this does just about what John says it will, I think it has to be recognized that this is really
not a complete solution to the problem that exists around the shore of the lake. We recognize the blasting
the study may not be complete but from an environmental point of view our feeling is that you have got to
correct the problem of the leach fields. Now, as John points out it can be done in a simpler fashion and
possibly that is right, but you cannot just go around to the cottages that are up there and put this little gizmo
on their septic tank which may be concrete it may be steel it may be a hole in the ground in some cases and
expect that this is going to solve the problem. It is a step in the right direction but we do not feel that it is a
real solution to the environmental problem that those homes represent. The Environmental Committee
feels that the wastewater problem is a small portion of what we are dealing with in polluting Lake George,
maybe 20%, maybe 25%, maybe 10% but it is a smaller percentage, possibly that is a justification of doing
this sort of thing. I do not think we should be accepting this as a solution to the wastewater problem that
may exist...
Councilman Caimano-Everybody seems to agree or a great majority seems to agree that this is the smaller
portion of the problem in Lake George and yet we are about ready to commit a major amount of funds, if
this is going to take care of 20% how much is it going to cost us to take care of the other 80% and can we
go bankrupt before we do it?
Mr. Sage-We are looking at the stormwater thing now, we are all in the Environmental Committee
familiarizing ourselves with the stormwater problem.
Discussion held regarding stormwater-suggested that the problem will be costly...1arge problem exists
February through April with the snow removal, ground being frozen stormwater systems may not
work...suggestion was made that the treatment plant be made larger to take care of both problems...
Mr. Salvadore-RE: Leach beds...showed chart...when dosing at 430 milligrams per liter that they were
reducing the suspended solids the things that get into the leach bed that plug it up, they were reducing the
suspended solids from 100 milligrams per liter down to 25 . Your are enhancing the life of the leach bed,
you are allowing it to work more efficiently.
Executive Director Martin-What is the percentage of systems along the lake shore that have leach beds?
Wastewater Director Shaw-Not many are holding tanks...
Mr. Salvadore-Also noted in report that the nitrates and nitrites have been removed from 0.5 milligrams per
liter down to 0.2.
Executive Director Martin-We talked about a good interim step being, we are so far away from having a
project in the ground no matter what it is, to take out the next 12 months and choose a random location and
install this system and actually test it in our situation and evaluate the samples taken at the end of the pipe.
Mr. Salvadore-It has been done once...
Mr. Lewis Stone-Maybe do it for the whole area recognizing that the sewer is five, six, seven years away..
Supervisor Fred Champagne-Year and a half anyway...
Executive Director Martin-You should have an accurate idea of what the cost of the project is before you
do it rather than afterwards... spoke to the board regarding the costs of starting up Mr. Salvadore's
proposal...formation of the district, staffing of the district, going around and looking at all the septic tanks
and you are going to require people where they do have the metal tanks or fifty five gallon drum, they are
going to have to put in a conforming septic tank with this system, 900 to 1000 properties...
Councilman Caimano-Noted in the report-it stated that nitrogen compounds calcium and magnesium
concentration of these materials were not distinguishable effected by the use of alum.
Questioned Mr. Salvadore what his system would cost to run?
Mr. Salvadore-I have said a penny a flush...calculated in capital expense half million as opposed to thirteen
million not counting the over runs....
Councilman Caimano-Are you agreeable though that this is not the whole answer that this is just part of the
answer?
Mr. Salvadore-I think it is the whole answer.
Mr. Sage-We disagree with that.
Mr. Salvadore-Maybe we are not trying to solve the whole problem but lets only through five percent of the
resources at five percent of the problem and use the rest of it to go after the other ninety five percent.
Wastewater Director Mike Shaw-Something in the report that I do not feel they do a very good job at either
is the true reflection of the O&M costs once these systems are in, the alternative method number three with
nine hundred grinder pumps and nine hundred septic tanks you are talking about high maintenance system.
I do not think that they portray that. We have twenty one grinders now and we have fifty calls a year on
twenty grinders, you are talking nine hundred individual pumps plus your major pump stations, effluent
pumps will still have problems. Odor is a problem at the pump station and the plant...
Councilman Caimano-We have to make a response and what we want to know is because we are depending
on you, what is that response going to be, don't put plant in, put a plant in but reduce it...
Wasterwater Director Shaw-John's idea is interesting and also I think maybe if we are worried about leach
fields maybe we should be looking at the wetlands, individual man made wetlands...
Unknown-I think knowing all we know about it, I would go with John's solution I think it is worth the
chance considering the fact that you have only got a relatively small amount of the contribution of the
pollution into the lake coming from wastewater systems and the fact that there is going to be a major
disruption of everything, it is going to be a mess and people are going to scream blood murder, I think this
is worth a chance.
Councilman Caimano-In replacement of the major sewer system.
Unknown-Yes.
Executive Director Martin-From a Zoning and Planning standpoint is we have a much different character of
our shoreline community than the other municipalities involved. We have very, very little commercial
property, you maybe the only motel in Queensbury that is along the lake and we have our marina's and that
is essentially it and they are as we all know are a dying breed, from that standpoint we have just residential
waste to deal with and what is the most effective way to deal with that we do not have a lot of commercial
build up on our shoreline.
Councilman Caimano-Are we being very lenient when it comes to giving variances to our set backs when
in fact that may be part of the answer.
Executive Director Martin-I do not know that we are being lenient I think you have to look at the laws
under which the Zoning Board has to consider area variances and with that in mind I think the Board hands
are tied in a lot of cases.
Councilman Caimano-No they are not, because this Town Board could declare a moratorium and say no
more, we are effectively not going to grant any more variance because of ecological problems.
Executive Director Martin-What I would say really tighten up the percentage increases like right now we
have 50% permitted without a variance, you have really got to tighten that down. Height restrictions 35 feet
is too much that has got to be lowered.
Mr. Stone-The Town Ordinance is 200' set back from the lake that is very conservative number we are
granting relief at 150', I do not think that there is a real risk there. One of the biggest thing is the over
loading an individual system from rental properties, we have no control over the eight, ten, twelve people
who come in there for a two week period and really overload the individual systems.
Executive Director Martin-My question was what would be the impact if this system was completely in
place on that separation distance, should that be reviewed and looked at and now is the need for such a
distance been removed to a large extent and ...my other point would be look at the interim report done by
the Fresh Water Institute from this past summers series of testing on coliform for the entire summer the
shore line along the Town of Queensbury had one failing location on one testing day. All the other
numbers were the lowest among the testing.
Mr. Stone-That does not mean they tested the right places...
Mr. Salvadore-Noted his area would fail due to the ducks and geese.
Councilman Caimano- This group is saying as I hear you, make your response no to the major plant because
we have an alternative
and this is our alternative and here is why, that goes against the signs that we have been giving to them
which says we are behind you.
Supervisor Champagne-It goes against the signs that came out of the meetings that we had at North
Queensbury. It seems to me that this plan here needs to be further investigated, studied.
Mr. Salvadore-You have a right to ask for that.
Spoke to the Board indicating that the project on No. Qsby. could be mandated by the State...
Supervisor Champagne-No.9 in Jims letter says it very clearly...we need to strengtlIen number 9 other than
that I think Jim's statements here are...
Councilman Wiswall-You might just as well take the bull by the horns and put in a sewer line from County
Line and eventually Pilot Knob will have to hook into a sewer, put a big enough sewer line to go down to
the sewer plant in Lake George...
Mr. Salvadore-Lake George Village with its concentration of development that Bolton Road up to Diamond
Point maybe then need that maybe that is the solution and this is not, we are a more rural area...
Discussion held on Mr. Martin's letter: the following changes were made: ..strengtlIen no. 9 in Jim's letter,
the majority of the residents are rural and residential as opposed to commercial the fact that there is a
question as to expense vs. alternative proposals that have been shown to be effective, we forcefully ask that
before we commit large sums of money that we look at the alternative proposals... mention the O&M
charges as being under stated that it is our experience with our own sewer district shows whatever we had
planned for is not sufficient the actual dollars is far beyond what we prepared for...
Wastewater Director Mike Shaw-What I am in favor of is having all the facts laid out to the people, it is
important that they know all the facts...
Executive Director Martin-There needs to be a very factual, realistic picture portrayed of what this is
exactly what this is going to be and someone's everyday life, there is going to be a backhoe in your front
yard or back yard, there is going to be blasting going on, traffic is going to be, you could come back to your
seasonal home in May and find everything off the shelf and on the floor...
Mr. Stone-We have to think about the greater good in the long term.
Councilman Caimano- When we get through with all this expense, all this inconvenience which will take
years we will maybe have solved a fraction of the problem is that realistic?
(It was the decision of the Board to send a letter as submitted by Mr. Martin and reflecting the opinion as
stated above to strengtlIen such letter to Warren County)
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury