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1996-11-07 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING NOVEMBER 7,1996 7:00 p.m. MTG.#46 RES. 445-447 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR FRED CHAMPAGNE COUNCILMAN BETTY MONAHAN COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN CONNIE GOEDERT COUNCILMAN CAROL PULVER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE PUBLIC HEARING - 1997 PROPOSED BUDGET NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-OPENED THE MEETING Certainly we thank you all for joining us this evening, in particular the department heads that are here this was not a mandated recruitment but it is awfully nice to see you here, even though a memorandum did go out and request you presence. We certainly had expected a much larger crowd but you can see when the Supervisor does not get involved that, all that much, in budgeting and we have the right kind of comptroller operating the Town it kind of takes the heat off the Towns folks to be here to kind of watch over us. Once you get it out of the political circle it works so much better, to have someone watching over. Ok. What I would like to do tonight is we will open the public hearing on the 1997 proposed budget and then following that just for the boards sake we need a resolution to cancel out Monday nights meeting and basically that is the business for the evening, although I do not have an agenda unless the board has something else that the Board wanted to add to that. By the way there is also a meeting on the consolidated plan the comprehensive consolidated plan and this meeting is tonight at seven and Jim Martin will be just a few minutes late once he gets things going over there. So, with that anything more from the Board? I am going to roll it right over to you Bill and I guess most of you know Bill Burns our Comptroller that has been with us now for six, seven months, is that about right? Comptroller Burns-Three Supervisor Champagne-Three Councilman Monahan-It just seems like six or seven, ha Bill? Supervisor Champagne-I think what I will do, I will just take my paper here and I will sit right out there at his place and he can do his thing. Get out of your way. Comptroller Burns-What I will do is just spend a few minutes to give you an over view of the 1997 operating plan and at the end we will open it up for discussions. I think most of you have gotten copies of the budget already and so forth so let me start off by giving a quick over view. The General Fund is going from twenty cents to twenty two cents per thousand valuation, that is generating a little over thirty two thousand dollars in additional tax revenue. The Water District all the tax rates are down, the lighting districts all tax rates are down the Sewer Districts all tax rates are down. Fire Protection and EMS services the tax rate is flat. On the Fire Protection and EMS services we do include the money for the new approved West Glens Falls Fire House we still have to get back and finalize the contracts with all the agencies. So, that is an open point but the way it stands to them the tax rate is flat. What I wanted to do is to give you a quick over view on how we prepared the budget one of the things is that, we wanted to be realistic this year and realistic means that you cannot budget for every exposure, every sensitivity that exists out there. The strategic thinking is looking at the Town in its entirety and having it fit in. Giving consideration to long term planning so that it fits in with the long term plan of the Town. Maintain the investment in the facilities the equipment that we do now own off set costs increase as the CPI for the Northeast New York region went up two point seven percent in the last twelve months. People status quo and this is important because about sixty percent of the whole budget is made up of people and fringe benefits. We want to act out of reason not emotion and globe integration this is where we have tried to bring the Departments together looked at shared services and the seeds have been planted for the future. Value, value both to the people that are paying us and the people we are buying from. This is the first page in the copy of the budget book that you do have, if you look at the General Fund appropriations are down from last year, revenues are down a little bit the appropriated fund balance last year we included a million two in there this year we are including slightly over one million dollars. The amount to be raised by taxes is going up slightly about thirty some thousand dollars. Coming all the way down, if you look at the total funds at the bottom you are going to see that the sixteen million two ninety eight is what the total appropriations are that is down as is the total amount that is going to be raised by taxes not only the general town wide operation but all the water, sewer and lighting districts. What we tried to do is to highlight the major revenue changes that have occurred to 1996 to 1997. A lot of this is taking into consideration the projects and where we are at this point in time with the 1996 actual and also realize that the economy is slowing down we have seen this in the third quarter with the sales tax has declined a little bit and after a very, the first two quarters being quite prosperous it is kind of stagnated. Sales tax is going from four point one million to four point three million. Parks and Recreation fifty five thousand to eighty thousand and this is the change one of the items that are changing we are looking at additional revenue streams and what this is incorporating is the additional fees for non Queensbury residents that do use our facilities. This has been reviewed with the Park and Recreation Committee and they are in total agreement with that. Mortgage tax, we, even though we hear the bad news the mortgage tax this year is quite good certainly not as good as a couple years ago and we are looking for another one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars in 1997. Unfortunately fines and forfeitures are going from seventy thousand to one hundred and forty thousand and this is our share of what is collected at the Town Court. We receive about thirty to thirty five percent based upon the type of fine and forfeiture which the Court, which does occur at the Court. We collect to about four to five hundred thousand dollars at the Town Court, most of that goes to the State and this is our share. Unfortunately it is on quite a steep increase. Crematory services are going to seventy five thousand to ninety five thousand, we provide a very reasonable service at a very reasonable price and the demand for this is increasing quite steadily. Chips, this is the Highway Improvement money that we receive from the State based upon pre-determined criteria. We have been told for 1997 that we can get up to about one hundred and sixty three thousand we have included one hundred and sixty thousand in the budget. This is money that is available but we have to comply with the stringent guidelines and the Highway Department has done a good job in getting the paper work and the necessary requirements that we continue to get this money year after year. This is going to define the major decreases and increases and expenditures for the year and I am going to go through this quickly. But I will highlight those that have had a change in the process, office supply, snow, salt, retirement, insurance, loader repairs, there was a major breakdown this year, social security, capital projects are on the decrease and this is largely due to the water plant the current. The Capital projects for 1997 we have included seventy five thousand dollars for a addition at the cemetery, we have included seventy five thousand dollars for the Aviation to Potter Road repair and expansion and we have put a thousand dollars in the budget for the Sweet Road repair our estimate is that it will be about four hundred thousand dollars and we were going to cover that with a BAN and we will issue that appropriately next year. Dept service is declined by about a half a million dollars largely due to some re-financing paying off some BANS early. Increases in expenditures for next year drainage up slightly, hospitalization eighteen thousand that continues to increase and it is a major concern that we need to address next year. Sewer Charges, twenty five thousand I think you have all read in the newspaper about what is happening in Glens Falls and this is the charge our best estimate in time with the additional cost increase that they are going to bill us for processing that water. Chips paving, in conjunction with the increase in revenue we are also seeing an increase in expenditures. Contingency budget is up slightly, engineering is up, workers comp is up thirty three thousand dollars and that was a big, big increase overall. Overall it is up about thirty five percent that is based upon our record, our experience factor. We hope to address that and make progress this year. Vehicles and Equipment overall we are going to spend about another eighty two thousand dollars. Wage increases account for that one hundred and ten thousand and that is in conjunction with the CSEA negotiated contract which is in place which will expire 12/31/97 but there is only a three percent increase in there. We have also included money for non-CSEA employees. That is an over view at this point in time I would like to open it up for discussion, we certainly can turn on the lights again and so forth if anybody needs a copy which I think most of you have of this presentation and Darleen has plenty of copies of the budget they are available also. Thank you. Supervisor Champagne-Ok. It is open season for comments or criticism or thoughts, ideas what do we have to offer here? Open to the public. Mr. Pliney Tucker-Pliney Tucker, Division Road, Queensbury What is the General Fund Surplus balance now? Comptroller Burns-...one minute, we are projecting I think is a million seven at the end of this year, I am sorry it is two million with what we are going to use next year we are projecting a million six at the end of next year based upon the amount that is going out of the surplus. Mr. Pliney Tucker-Next year, you do not know what it is right now after Comptroller Burns-Two million two. Supervisor Champagne-Two million two. Mr. Tucker-After you took out what you put in to Comptroller Burns-No, right today it is two million two. We are projecting about two million. Mr. Tucker-Page 5 Supervisor Champagne-Page 5 ok. Mr. Tucker-I know the request and proposal looks good here but according to the paper you are looking at a three percent increase? Comptroller Burns-Yes, I mentioned it Pliney in the Mr. Tucker-In the Town Board salaries and your salary? Comptroller Burns-That is correct. Supervisor Champagne-That is what is in the proposal. Mr. Tucker-Ok. That contingency fund that you got, two hundred and five is that to take care of raises and Comptroller Burns-Pliney there is about forty five thousand dollars in the contingency account for salary adjustments the two hundred and five thousand dollars is for unknown contingencies. We have tried to budget quite tightly this year, felt that we needed some type of security last year by mid year the total contingency had been used up. Mr. Tucker-Ok. Page 17 Engineering Supervisor Champagne-What line are you on? Comptroller Burns-forty four hundred. Mr. Tucker-Engineering services, I got sixty thousand, is that for design work on Aviation Road and stuff like that? Comptroller Bums-There is a couple of things happening in engineering Pliney, Jim Martin uses Engineer Services also in addition to that we use engineering services on a somewhat simi regular basis any time that an occurrence arises we have not put the money in there, the Aviation Road Capital project specifically we have it here. For example when we had a problem recently at the cemetery we had to bring in an engineering firm and it is a regular type thing. We do not have an in house engineer. Mr. Tucker-No, I know that. So this is just for standard Comptroller Bums-That is correct. Supervisor Champagne-When we say standard Pliney, we are talking project that we are already aware of if we go with Sweet Road and it is more than likely that we will, we certainly need the engineering and I know some of it has been done up on Aviation, certainly there could be some add on to bring it up to speed. There are a couple of other drainage projects that we are looking at next year that could eat into the engineering budget. What you saw here in the over view basically and you may have recognized this already but we are in some what I consider the realistic budgeting, we are not overloading the sales tax revenue and we are not under loading it I should say while at the same time we are overloading the expenditure side. So, we are having to say now, you know, we are not going to reach into that contingency unless it is absolutely positively necessary and important. I think that is the way I personally would like to run the machine. You know you budget for it, you spend it and that is it. Hopefully we will not find so many transfers you know at this time of the year given this budget because there will not be funds there to transfer. Mr. Tucker-Page 55 Heavy Equipment two hundred and ninety five, what are we buying for the Highway Department? Supervisor Champagne-Paul, do you want to take that one? The question was, two ninety five for highway equipment what are we buying for that? Mr. Tucker-The heavy equipment. Highway Supt. Paul Naylor-We are buying a shoulder machine number one, you saw the old one we had in front of your house, we are buying a stacker, ..and we are buying a dump truck. Mr. Tucker-Misc. Contractual one hundred and fifty thousand what is that? It says highway machinery. Highway Supt. Naylor-Soup to nuts, anything to do with maintenance tires, ..grease, oil on and on rags, ... Mr. Tucker-Page 61 Fire Service It is probably something that we just left out. Supervisor Champagne-What line item are you? Mr. Tucker-Hang on I haven't got the page yet. Supervisor Champagne-Excuse me, I am sorry. Take your time. Mr. Tucker-The question I got the Fire Service Awards and it is probably, it says current budget ninety and sixty and I know that is right but is says actual to date you have not made any payments. Comptroller Bums-The payment is due November 15th for I think eighty seven thousand and some change. Supervisor Champagne-Actually we just got that bill. Mr. Tucker-Is that for 1996? Supervisor Champagne-yes. Comptroller Bums-1995. Mr. Tucker-And you just got the bill? You cannot pay it until you get it that is for sure or you shouldn't. Supervisor Champagne-It is drawing interest so you don't rush them. Mr. Tucker-The equipment fund that the Board established for the Fire Companies and EMS do you have a balance in that thing? Comptroller Bums-Two hundred and thirty one thousand dollars, Pliney. Mr. Tucker-That includes equipment purchase, does that include the mortgage on the fire house? Comptroller Bums-No, that is the amount that is in the surplus fund which has been restricted for the fire and ems services for equipment as per the negotiated contracts for the last two years. Suprvisor Champagne-The interest is there Pliney but that is it, just equipment plus what was originally put in plus interest. Mr. Tucker-Queensbury water what is the surplus there this year? Councilman Pulver-Five hundred thousand. Mr. Tucker-What is in the surplus, five hundred thousand? Councilman Pulver-Five hundred thousand. Mr. Tucker-On page 100 on the Serial bonds, I will give you the figures 720, 650 and 592, 500 what are those, I know we owe some load debt on the original water plant. Comptroller Bums-In addition to that Pliney we also have the new water plant that has been constructed and we spent a considerable amount of money on that. This is the total amount that is due per the bonds in 1997. Mr. Tucker-So, it is owed and Comptroller Bums-This is the total. Mr. Tucker-Now, a couple more, meetings ago I asked you about the meeting down, the water tank has that been awarded and being built? Water Supt. Thomas K. Flaherty-It is built and is in service. It has been in service since Mayor June of this year. Mr. Tucker-Where did you build it? Water Supt. Flaherty-Gurney Lane. Mr. Tucker-Behind the iron tank? Water Supt. Flaherty-Right next to the iron tank, right in front of it. Mr. Tucker-How come you cannot see it from Gurney Lane? You mean it is behind the tank Councilman Pulver-Good job of camouflage Water Supt. Flaherty-It is in front of the tank. Mr. Tucker-In front of, towards Gurney Lane? Water Supt. Flaherty-Yes, Sir. Mr. Tucker-You have got a sign up there no trespassing can I go look at it? Water Supt. Flaherty-You certainly can. Mr. Tucker-Ok, thanks. Water Supt. Flaherty-As long as you guarantee not to sue us if you fal1..or anything? Mr. Tucker-No I will not, I will not do that. Supervisor Champagne-Pliney the other question was as I remember it the lines that were originally planned to go up West Mountain Road Mr. Tucker-Twenty five hundred feet of twenty four inch? Water Supt. Flaherty-We put a portion of that in this fall.. said we had the money to do it. Supervisor Champagne-That was not part of the bid package. Water Supt. Flaherty-That was not part of the bid package. Unknown-Part of the bid package was to go under the Northway, and tie into Route 9. Mr. Tucker-I thought there was twenty five hundred feet to go from the Water Plant to Luzeme Road in the original, did you take it out or what? Water Supt. Flaherty-I am not familiar with, there was not anything going to the Water Plant that I am familiar with ...there is a sixteen inch line in there now already. Deputy Water Supt. VanDusen-There was talk about the possibility of going to thirty million gallons per day, that is real agent history that if we sold water to Lake George and if we went to thirty million gallons.. Water Supt. Flaherty-That may be what you are talking about if we went to a thirty million gallon a day plant we talked about increasing the size of the line. Mr. Tucker-That line will not be changed anyway. Water Supt. Flaherty-No, Sir. Mr. Tucker-That is all I got, Thank you. Supervisor Champagne-Thank you, Pliney. Anyone else? Highway Supt. Paul H. Naylor-Paul H., Naylor Queensbury Highway Supt. Page 31 what is the story on my telephones? Supervisor Champagne-What line item? Highway Supt. Naylor-Telephones Councilman Monahan-There is nothing in it. Highway Supt. Naylor-No kidding... Deputy Highway Supt. Missita-That is why he is asking. Highway Supt. Naylor-I ain't got no cans with a string on them, darling so I cannot talk to you no more...you will not be able to talk to me all next year, that might hurt. Comptroller Bums-Paul one of the things that we looked at was that we were spending about three to four hours every month distributing the telephone bills which are quite numerous and when I look at it I asked what value there was in distributing it because it was on a preset basis and it was not distributing the long distance calls to where they are originated and so forth so what we did was, it was my recommendation that we include all telephone expense in one department and I monitor all the expenses on every bill that comes in. We already some interesting discoveries that we have investigated we have already gotten some money back on some of the bills. We felt that this was the most effective and economical way of handling the telephone expense. Highway Supt. Naylor-I do not like that idea. Deputy Highway Supt. Missita-Those are cell phones Highway Supt. Naylor-Those are cell phones not regular phones. Deputy Highway Supt. Missita-That is not the phone in the building. Highway Supt. Naylor-That is not the phone in the building that is one in my car. Deputy Highway Supt. Missita-That is a car phone. Comptroller Bums-I will have to check on it then, we did not pull out the cell phones. Deputy Highway Supt. Missita- Y ea you did. Highway Supt. Naylor-Yea it is not in there. Comptroller Bums-If we did, that is an error. Highway Supt. Naylor-Ok. Supervisor Champagne-Either one of two things here happened did we assume that they were just part of the telephone system and we yanked it out or did we put it someplace else ...it is in there Highway Supt. Naylor-You are in there, you got your phone. Supervisor Champagne-Am I? Highway Supt. Naylor-Haven't you got a phone? Supervisor Champagne-I have a phone, but I do not know.. Highway Supt. Naylor-..you may not be able to use it again if you don't put any money in there. Supervisor Champagne-I understand that, thats for bring it to my attention. Highway Supt. Naylor-Standing on the street comer talking to each other and we cannot call anybody else. Supervisor Champagne-We will leave that in there. Comptroller Bums-Maybe that is not all bad Paul. Highway Supt. Naylor-I will tell you a story someday when you have got a lot of time about telephones. I do not think you would like it. Supervisor Champagne-Cell phones Eleven hundred dollars. Councilman Pulver-When was that decided about the phones and does everybody else know, every other department know that they are not going to have a phone item? Comptroller Bums-We have talked to most of the departments? Councilman Pulver-You were left out I guess. Highway Supt. Naylor-I was left out again. Supervisor Champagne-Lets clean it up here, what we have tried to do, what we have tried to do is to take all of the numbers that you folks came in with, with your request, you made a request for Eleven hundred dollars she made a request for five hundred dollars, we took all those dollars and we put it in one lump budget line ok. Your money is in there for telephone, NYNEX, tada, tada, cellular phones we need to take another look at. I may be in trouble with that one but here is the point. We were getting these bills Highway Supt. Naylor-Same way with the telephones you are saying he is going to look over the bills and if he does not think the bill is right he is going to cancel it? Supervisor Champagne-No. Highway Supt. Naylor-That is what I listened to tonight, it sounds like if I call Joe Blow and it does not sound like a good telephone connection for the town, (whistle) Supervisor Champagne-No. Comptroller Bums-We have uncovered 900 calls that were being made which we had to investigate that were charged to our facility, we uncovered collect calls, we have uncovered numerous other types of system opportunities. They have all been corrected and the money has been refunded to us. When we went to the new phone system apparently ..old lines that were billed to us coming in were never taken out of the bill to us we have extensive phone calls to certain places in Virginia, out side the area..an extensive bill in pursuing those the phone company realized that the incoming lines to us were being ...incorrectly so we had ..changed. Supervisor Champagne-We had hundreds of dollars to the 900 number. Highway Supt. Naylor-Yea but we are all part of your team why didn't you tell us what was going on? We did not know what was going on. Supervisor Champagne-Paul Highway Supt. Naylor-We meet once a month to discuss these things why didn't you tell us? Supervisor Champagne-I do not see that it has any Highway Supt. Naylor-You do not want to talk to us.. Supervisor Champagne-Hea Highway Supt. Naylor-Hea yourself Supervisor Champagne-I am sorry, tomorrow come on up Highway Supt. Naylor-I am asking you a question. Supervisor Champagne-Come on in tomorrow and we will discuss it. All am I saying to you and you can take this to the bank or believe it, what I am saying to you there has been absolutely no change in use of telephones in house, none what so ever. Highway Supt. Naylor-I look at the budget and I do not see something there, there has been a change. Supervisor Champagne-But, Paul, it is in here. Highway Supt. Naylor-You are telling me it is in there fine, I will take you to the bank on it. Comptroller Bums-Well, Paul why didn't you bring this up before... Highway Supt. Naylor-I just saw it. Comptroller Bums-Ok, well we will correct it, if it is an error Paul. Highway Supt. Naylor-I bring up a lot of things as you know, daily. Comptroller Bums-Well Paul we bring up a lot of things too, that fall on deft ears too. Supervisor Champagne-I am going, we will certainly, it is an in house concern we will take care of it tomorrow, Paul, we will see what we can do. If there is something there that is lacking by all means we will correct it. Anyone else care to, make a comment. Mr. George Drellos-George Drellos, 27 Fox Hollow Lane, in this summary report here it shows the General Fund going up two cents Supervisor Champagne-Two cents on a thousand. Mr. Drellos-Do you have the figures on the Water District and the Lighting it is not on there I am just kind of curious as to it says they are down but it does not say exactly what they are. Comptroller Bums-The water districts are going down from six cents in Queensbury Consolidated, West Glens Falls is going down a penny, Shore Colony a penny the lighting districts are going down from two cents in So. Queensbury to twenty one cents in Fort Amherst, sewer districts are going down from Six Dollars at Quaker Road to seventeen twenty at Reservoir Park. Councilman Pulver-George to you that is a dollar seventy per thousand for Queensbury Consolidated Water and it would be a dollar eighteen for your Fire and EMS and I do not think that you have lighting. Mr. Drellos-On Fox Hollow, I do not know if there is lighting there. Councilman Pulver-There is no lighting..take all those taxes, add them together multiply them ... Mr. Drellos- That is just what I wanted to know. Supervisor Champagne-Ok, anyone else. Mr. James Martin- I have just something I just wanted to mention I forgot to do it during my hearing I thought Councilman Pulver-Your hearing? Wait a minute. Mr. Martin-Well, I know I talked to Paul about this idea of a stump grinder at the landfill and my other comment on that I thought that would be useful thing for us to have and a service for us to offer. I know the construction landfill is getting filled up and maybe it is too late for this budget year but I wanted to get it on the record for next year and it would be a useful service for us to offer. We do not allow subdividers to bury stumps on the lot and this would be a viable alternative for them and obviously would charge a fee for it and might be able to cover the cost of the equipment to purchase such a thing. So, Councilman Pulver-But does it mulch up enough so that you get bark chips and stuff.. Mr. Martin-Yes and then you would have a usable by product and maybe people could use it if they wanted to spread around their shrubs or something like that. But it is something that is compostable ... Councilman Monahan-I think also we need to also look into something that would maybe grind construction material... Mr. Martin-I do not know what kind of equipment exists out there but I know that a stump grinder would be a service for the community. Supervisor Champagne-Good point, it is not that we have not looked at this I think Paul and I looked at the one that Pro-Craft had it was a used unit, Paul help me with this, around one hundred and ninety five. Highway Supt. Naylor-They wanted one hundred and ninety five. Supervisor Champagne-A hundred and ninety five thousand dollars. Highway Supt. Naylor-We should have took George's land and we could fill up his ten acres with brush.. Mr. Drellos-For Eight hundred thousand you could have had the building the land and no need of a stump... Supervisor Champagne-You could have had a stump dump right there, right? Highway Supt. Naylor-Way ahead of the game. Supervisor Champagne-Good point. But that's something we need to take a look at. I guess my feelings are should we get into the private sector, is that private sector responsibility and should we be doing it or should government. Mr. Martin-I do not see where it is any different than when you accept waste as it is now, I do not see that there is much difference. Councilman Monahan- I certainly would not want to be in competition with private industry but if private industry is not filling the need than maybe we would have to look at Mr. Martin-That is my point Supervisor Champagne-Do you know of any communities down state or up state that is in that business. It certainly makes sense. Mr. Martin-I do not know I am just saying given the way we treat subdivisions and what we do you know, for the rates, the C&D landfill is filling up and there is no permitted use area in Town that I know of to locate such a thing this may be a viable alternative. Councilman Monahan-I will tell you Fred that several years ago I went to a seminar on Waste Management and a construction company who could not find a way of getting rid of materials that they were ripping down finally went into the business on the other end of it too, to get rid of it you know. So, if there are we thought we just need to look to some other states to see what has been done, perhaps. Supervisor Champagne-Anyone else, yes, Sir. Mr. Jay Merrick-Mr. Jay Merrick from Montray Road Queensbury. I just have one question on the workers compo you said that was going up at this point in the budget. Workers Comp rates have taken a fifteen to twenty five percent decrease on the workers comp board, question as to why they are in on the increase at this point. Comptroller Bums-There are a couple of reasons the, we have been self insured through Warren County the money that we have been paying has been substantially less than what you have been paying on the open market. As a matter of fact the money that has been billed to us this year which is one hundred and thirty five thousand is compared to a hundred thousand previous year was really a reduction in the worker compo even prior to this change which took place the 1 st. of October. But being self insured we really do not participate in the same rate reduction as the average business would because they are going through an Insurance company. Supervisor Champagne-We are self insured through Warren County I think that was the point. We had what they do their calculations on a five year term basically and within the past five years we have had a couple of bad experiences to be honest with you that were relatively high cost so every, I cannot say every town, but certainly the County and DPW and our Highway operation I think is where they see the hardest hit. Mr. Merrick-Has anybody investigated a safety group situation and workers compo insurance rather than insuring through the County? Comptroller Bums-No and it is something that we are looking at right now, I am not sure that we can get into a safety group. Those groups have done quite well, and there again they are in the self insured type concept. We have been fortunate that we have like I have said before we have not been billed the total amount of what our actual experience has been. What we really need to do is improve our safety record and cut down our accidents so that we do not incur these types of claims. That is the issue that we are addressing now. Mr. Merrick-I am very heavily involved in my business in the safety group and you know, you are talking about self insured, through a group not a safety group, a safety group is different from these other.. Comptroller Bums-Yes, I am familiar with that....I have a business that is also in that same category and there is substantial savings. Supervisor Champagne-Is that the one that is provided by ARCC or is this another one that you are talking about? Mr. Merrick-No I belong to a trucks safety group through my business and I am on the Board of Directors of the Safety Group also so I am pretty familiar with the savings, the savings are substantial it is about a fifty percent discount off my regular rate. Comptroller Bums-That is about average. Supervisor Champagne-I would say given the self insurance through the County versus the New York State, Bill help me with that, we are still down twenty five, thirty percent of more. Comptroller Bums-At least, at least. Supervisor Champagne-We have been really in a cost savings operation over the last five years and obviously it just caught up to us. Ok. Anyone else. Yes, Barb? Ms. Barbara Bennett-Tell me why is it under the colunm proposed you never fill it in for hardware, software most telephone... Councilman Pulver-They aren't getting any.. Councilman Monahan-No, That is the one that Bill is moving to central. Supervisor Champagne-We are consolidating...go ahead Bill, Comptroller Bums-The, Barbara, the telephone system we previously discussed we consolidate them into one department we did the same with the hardware and software and again the reason for that is to improve the overall control and hopefully have an impact on reducing cost with better efficiency. But, they have just been transferred to another department in consolidating it for better control. Supervisor Champagne-That is the same for the hardware and software for computers, we have taken it out of the individual departments and we have lumped it under one control line item. Ms. Bennett-Without these figures in here it would make your totals not mean too much. Councilman Monahan-It would show up in another line, Bill maybe you could tell us where those show, where you could look for those? Comptroller Bums-Let me see, page 23 Barbara Ms. Bennett-Forty six thousand? Comptroller Bums-Yes, that is correct. Supervisor Champagne-That is software. Comptroller Bums-That is hardware and software is right below that. Ms. Bennett-And thattakes care of all of them? Supervisor Champagne-That is what the Town plans to spend on it. Ms. Bennett -page 8 There is a whole list of them where there is nothing but a proposed, is that? Comptroller Bums-That is because we transferred them to that other department. Ms. Bennett-Page 18 Building and Grounds You have not spent anything and there is nothing proposed Supervisor Champagne-Which line item are you on Barb, 1620? Where are you, I am sorry. Ms. Bennett-Building and Grounds Supervisor Champagne-1620? Ms. Bennett-Yes, 1620. Councilman Monahan-The Clerk part time Barb? Supervisor Champagne-Is that what you are looking at? Councilman Monahan-Part of this Barb, is changed in titles like Building and Grounds used to be Superintendent and now it is, so that line is zero because now the title of the person doing that job is Facilities Manager. Supervisor Champagne-If you look at it Barb, that one under the current budget there was a part time clerk and actually it was this position right here in the this facility in the activity center if you look back the previous two years the four eighty four and the six thousand five sixty one we took that out of here a year ago and put a full time person, so when you are, really you are dropping a position as a part time you are building in a full time position that line item, that number that code has to go with the new code that goes in. That is what you are seeing there. Ms. Bennett-Page 40 The Planning Department legal services it looks like 8020. Supervisor Champagne-8020.4130 is that where you are? Ms. Bennett-Yes. Supervisor Champagne-This was this deals with a new plan.. Comptroller Bums-This is legal services in the Planning Dept. Barbara, what has happened in the past that several of the departments had incremental legal services budgeted in those departments the contract that has been proposed to us by the outside firm Miller and Mannix, has a monthly set fee which includes the planning and so forth the only thing it doesn't include is litigation. That has been included in the legal department we did not break it out into the other departments because it was one fixed fee. Ms. Bennett-Page 15 Item 1420.10 Supervisor Champagne-Page 15 line Councilman Monahan-Which item Barb? Ms. Bennett-1430, 1420... Comptroller Bums-The Town Attorney? Ms. Bennett-Yes. Comptroller Bums-You will see the budget and the actual year to day as 78 to 120 dollars that was Mr. Dusek's salary when he was here I think in January and part of February. He was the Town Attorney and left in the early part of the year and has since moved on to Warren County. Ms. Bennett-Then you turn the page over to the other side 1420...counsel services 150,000 Comptroller Bums-That is the contract that has been proposed to us by Miller and Mannix and that is all inclusive except for litigation. Councilman Goedert-There has to be other things in that besides the contract with Miller and Mannix. Supervisor Champagne-The contract that is being proposed next year by the attorney on staff now Mr. Schachner's responsibilities that contact reads at this point 150,000 it was based on 125,000 pro rated this year he is asking for an additional 25,000 in there which kicks it into 150,000 the cost, that takes care of Planning and Zoning his responsibility for Planning and Zoning. Councilman Goedert-You are talking about a figure that is 235,6... Supervisor Champagne-I am sorry I thought she said 150..where are you Barb? Ms. Bennett-I was looking at 150,000. Supervisor Champagne-That is the one that I am talking about. That is for outside counsel doing all the legal work for the Town with the exception of litigation. Ms. Bennett-page 55 Under 5130. Supervisor Champagne-5130 now wait a minute you have to give me the next number, 1460 or what? Ms. Bennett-2020 Supervisor Champagne-Got you, 5130.2020 you are looking at a request for 28,500 dollars and it is not being proposed. It is out of the budget, I cannot remember now what that was Paul. Highway Supt. Naylor-I do I never forget..Rick's vehicle. Supervisor Champagne-That is what that was. Highway Supt. Naylor-I never forgive and I never forget, remember that, those two come right together. Supervisor Champagne-I was hoping you would have forgotten that one. Highway Supt. Naylor-Never. Ms. Bennett -There is a big transfer to the Highway Department Supervisor Champagne-Ok that's Comptroller Bums-Like a million seven, yes Barbara that is the funding for the Highway Department that we transferred from the General Fund the Highway comes up with a budget of about two and a half million they are using four hundred and sum out of surplus then we have some chip revenue and so forth the main balance a million seven a million eight is what we transferred from the General Fund. Ms. Bennett-Pretty big figures. Well, I came in here a little upset because I counted one hundred and seventeen blanks under proposed figures where there were no figures in there apparently from your explanation it is not affecting the budget. Supervisor Champagne-I think the thing you have to understand is you know when you bring in a new Comptroller and we try to adjust line items according to the State Codes and sometimes that gets mish- mashed I think as we work this thing through we have got to consolidate some of those you know a budget of this many pages for a sixteen million dollar budget is a lot of pages so to speak and you know we have broken this thing down so finite that it just, in many cases even the Department Heads have trouble keeping track where their dollars are coming and where they are going and we just think by just consolidating some of this it would be an easier budget to work with better understood and consolidate some of the smaller stuff into more major and the telephone is one example certainly the hardware, software makes sense to put all under one budget. Certainly we will keep track of that within our budgeting process but we don't we don't necessarily have to show it as separate line items all the way through. Ms. Bennett-With all the blanks ...did not know how the totals meant anything, you know. Supervisor Champagne-Thank you, anyone else? Councilman Monahan-I think there is an error in the budget and that is none of the elected officials were transposed to this budget according to this and I think they have to be by law. They were all put in, every single, I could not find the Highway Supt. but I am assuming his just the same as the others, none of the others were adjusted and I think by law it has to show up in this budget. Supervisor Champagne-You are right, so we need to make that change tonight. Councilman Monahan-There are one, two, three, four, five I checked everybody, I could not find where we had, I knew the Highway Supt. is in that first part where your budget, where your budget ..stands by itself... Comptroller Bums-It is not increased. Councilman Monahan-But it should be. Supervisor Champagne-It has to be. Councilman Monahan-All those positions have to be increased in this proposed budget as of tonight. Comptroller Bums-I did not realize that, I will take care of that. Councilman Monahan-The elected officials have to be or you cannot raise it. Supervisor Champagne-As a total under miscellaneous town board payroll it should be Councilman Monahan-Excuse me, twelve three sixty times four, four one nine three zero, Town Clerk has to be four three five six zero. Highway Supt., Town Justices Comptroller Bums-The total dollars will not change because we have put the salary increases in .. Councilman Monahan-But you have to show this legally, you have to show it correctly on the line in the proposed budget. Supervisor Champagne-So give that to me again, forty nine Councilman Turner-Forty nine four forty. Councilman Monahan-We should note that was an error in the preparation of the budget, it should have shown correctly on the sheets...yours is Page 6 down at the bottom Supervisor Champagne-Folks if you want to change yours and you probably should you want to follow along here, this needs to be corrected tonight during the preliminary hearing. Councilman Monahan-Wait a minute, first do the Town Justices they are on page 5, Supervisor Champagne-Page 5 Councilman Monahan-I have if my math is right fifty seven two ninety, twice times twenty eight six four five. Supervisor Champagne-Wait a minute now, you are talking about the Town Board? Councilman Monahan-Town Justices, you did Town Board Supervisor Champagne-I got Forty nine four forty, that is correct, right. Town Justices went from what now? Councilman Monahan-Fifty seven two ninety is the new figure. Comptroller Bums-They were at fifty five six twenty. Councilman Goedert-It is what now? Councilman Monahan-Fifty seven two ninety. It is twenty eight thousand six forty five times two. Supervisor Champagne-Ok. Councilman Monahan-Town Supervisor is at the bottom of page six four nine one three zero. Supervisor Champagne-Four nine one three zero, Town Supervisor, ok. Councilman Monahan-Town Clerk, excuse me, page fourteen Supervisor Champagne-Page fourteen. Councilman Monahan-Is Forty three five sixty. Superintendent of Highways is page thirty and you have got my sheet over there and I did not get that one down. Fifty five six twenty. I think that is all of them. Supervisor Champagne-You want to make those changes? Councilman Monahan-That is an error in the preparation of the budgets. It is the same thing that was in the notice. But you have to list those in the budget. It will not change the bottom figures any because it was always in there under another item. It has to be on the proper line. Councilman Goedert-I have a question. On page 61 9025, 8025 is there a ..for EMS there is supposed to be a surplus of one hundred and eighty thousand dollars in there? Comptroller Bums-That is in the surplus account. We do not reflect that in the budget because that has been accumulated over the last couple of years. Councilman Goedert-A surplus account for where? Comptroller Bums-This is the budget for next year it is similar to the surplus account that we have for the general funds, Highway and so forth that is in that fund. Councilman Goedert-It doesn't show the surplus. Comptroller Bums-This is just the expenditures for next year. Councilman Goedert-What I am saying to you is that fire and ems tax service surplus fund or the general surplus fund does it show? Comptroller Bums-It is called the fire protection surplus.. Supervisor Champagne-By the way we got that bill today for ems. Councilman Monahan-I have one other comment and unfortunately I was going out of town when you met with the rec. department we have fought this out many years before and I personally am not in favor of charging people out of Queensbury a different price than we do Queensbury people for the use of facilities we are going to get into that thing and we are going to have the other communities feel the same way about us and I just think it is no win situation we are going to thrash that out in a workshop. But that is where I am coming from right now. I think it is a foolish move and I think it is a counter productive move and it is going to come back and hurt us. Supervisor Champagne-Everybody to their own opinion. Ok. Any other comments. Unknown-Is that for the rec. fees or Councilman Monahan-I mean you go to Havilands Cove do you want somebody to treat you differently because you came from Queensbury you use the Tennis Courts at Glens Falls the same way you go to Lake George use Shepards park you know we start this game and we are really going to get it back in the neck and we deserve to from other municipalities around that we are going and using their facilities, I just think this is a region type of thing and I think it is completely morally, ethically, and wrong and is stupid to do it. Supervisor Champagne-We are charging fees now, right? Councilman Monahan-I said to change, but to change them, Queensbury and outsiders pay the same fees now and I do not think we should...from what Bills explanation tonight he said we were going to start charging people outside of Queensbury more, that where he got up to the eighty thousand. Comptroller Bums-That is correct ok, the commission. Councilman Monahan-Well we fought this out with the commission before. Councilman Monahan-We fought that out with the Commission before in other years and we told them no, prior boards. Supervisor Champagne-Well there goes the contingency budget. Councilman Monahan-Prior boards have said no. Mr. Steve Lovering-Recreation Dept.-The total difference might not necessarily be charging a Glens Falls resident a different rate it might be that you are increasing the rates for everybody a little bit. Councilman Monahan-That would not bother me as much as I do not want to see the discrimination between communities. Unknown-How would you police ... Councilman Monahan-I would not even want to. Unknown-Well I know, but how would you? Highway Supt. Naylor-..put a bathing suit on you could tell anybody... Supervisor Champagne-Well where were we? Anyway, we plan on spending more time devoting ourselves to what comes back to the recreation commission, maybe they have already made that, I do not recall. Mr. Steve Lovering-Recreation Dept.-They have not really talked about it formally yet. Supervisor Champagne-We have until November something or other to determine.. Councilman Monahan-I know that they pitch for it every year and every year both Town Board Members pitched it right back to them. Supervisor Champagne-I know it is awful nice to have someone call me from Luzeme or Warrensburg and tell us what a tremendous opportunity that they have in Queensbury on my nickel. Councilman Monahan-But, Fred you mean to tell me you never go over to any of these other places and use their facilities? Supervisor Champagne-What facilities where are they at? Highway Supt. Naylor-You have Sunnyside we don't. Supervisor Champagne-We don't swim in Sunnyside. Any other questions? Councilman Monahan-I swim in Sunnyside. Supervisor Champagne-Pliney are you all done so soon? Ok. Anything over there from Rodney Mosher. If there is no other conversation or discussion...Close the Public Hearing. Thank you very much for joining us in particular the Department Heads that are here, I want to say thank you from all of us and good management when you only have one, two, three what did we have three people here? RESOLUTION CANCELING NOVEMBER 11, 1996 TOWN BOARD WORKSHOP MEETING RESOLUTION NO.: 445,96 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Connie Goedert WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury regularly holds its Workshop Meetings on the 2nd and 4th Mondays of each month, and WHEREAS, Monday, November 11, 1996 is Veterans Day and so the Town offices will be closed, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby cancels the Town Board Workshop Meeting scheduled for Monday, November 11, 1996, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor's Office is hereby authorized to provide such notice to the newspaper and public, as may be necessary, to inform them of said cancellation. Duly adopted this 7th day of November, 1996, by the following vote: AYES Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Turner, Mrs. Goedert, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Champagne NOES None ABSENT: None Supervisor Champagne-Meet on Tuesday 19th at 6:00 regarding fire and ems.. Councilman Goedert-Requested that the Supervisor send a letter to the fire and ems representatives with their figures and offer them a date next week to come in... RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 446.96 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Executive Session to discuss personnel matter. Duly adopted this 7th day of November, 1996 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Turner, Mrs. Goedert, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Champagne Noes: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION AND SPECIAL MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 447.96 INTRODUCED BY: Supervisor Fred Champagne WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from its Executive Session and Special Meeting. Duly adopted this 7th day of November, 1996 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Goedert, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Turner, Mr. Champagne NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury