2001-01-23
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 23, 2001
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
CRAIG MAC EWAN, CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LA BOMBARD, SECRETARY
ROBERT VOLLARO
JOHN STROUGH
ANTHONY METIVIER
LARRY RINGER
CHRIS HUNSINGER
SENIOR PLANNER-MARILYN RYBA
PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
TOWN COUNSEL-MILLER, MANNIX, SCHACHNER, & HAFNER-CATHI RADNER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
SITE PLAN NO. 77-2000 TYPE II ROBERT WALL OWNER: SAME AGENT: KEVIN
MASCHEWSKI, JONATHAN LAPPER ZONE: WR-3A, APA LOCATION: 15
ANTIGUA ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES CONVERSION OF SEASONAL
RESIDENCE TO A FULL TIME YEAR ROUND RESIDENCE WITH THE ADDITION
OF A SECOND FLOOR, ENTRANCE FOYER, LAKESIDE GREAT ROOM,
DETACHED GARAGE AND NEW SEPTIC SYSTEM. CROSS REFERENCE: AV 101-
2000, SP 73-2000 (WITHDRAWN) WARREN CO. PLANNING: 12/13/00 OLD TAX
MAP NO. 1-1-5/NEW TAX MAP NO. 239.17-1-5 LOT SIZE: 0.27 ACRES/SECTION 179-
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MR. MAC EWAN-The first item on the agenda is tabling of Site Plan No. 77-2000. That’s a request
of the applicant so they can revise their application. What I’ll do is the public hearing is open. It was
left open at the December 26 meeting. We’ll leave it open.
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PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 77-2000 ROBERT WALL, Introduced by Craig
MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Vollaro:
Until the February 27 meeting.
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Duly adopted this 23 day of January, 2001, by the following vote:
rd
AYES: Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. MacEwan
NOES: NONE
OLD BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 6-2000 PRELIMINARY STAGE FINAL STAGE TYPE:
UNLISTED MICHAEL VASILIOU OWNERS: PETER & EILEEN WEEKS, WM.
HOWARD, JR., JUDITH WHITE & OTHERS, RAYMOND LEMERY, WALTER
HOWARD, MORTON & FLORENCE PHILLIPS, SARAH MCECHRON, MICHAEL
VASILIOU AGENT: VAN DUSEN & STEVES/NACE ENGINEERING ZONE: SR-1A
LOCATION: PEGGY ANN ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES SUBDIVISION OF A
32+/- ACRE LOT INTO 28 RESIDENTIAL LOTS. CROSS REFERENCE: SB 21-1999,
AV 26-2000, AV 95-2000 TAX MAP NO. 121-1-2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 1.3 LOT SIZE: 32.10
ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
TOM NACE & MATT STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MRS. LA BOMBARD-And the public hearing from last week was tabled.
MR. MAC EWAN-Staff Notes?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MRS. MOORE-Just in reference to the memo that you received, the conditions of the resolution, the
Board should review those, and determine if there’s additional conditions that you need, or if you
would like to amend the conditions that are noted.
MR. MAC EWAN-Would you also note for the record, too, receipt of your DEC letter from Kathy
O’Brien. Maybe you ought to read that in if you would.
MRS. MOORE-Okay. This is dated January 23, 2001, from Kathy O’Brien, from the New York
State DEC. It’s addressed to Mr. MacEwan, “Thank you for sending me the subdivision plans for
the proposed Vasiliou subdivision on Peggy Ann Road. This project was of concern because of its
location across Peggy Ann Road from habitat of the endangered Karner blue butterfly. There is also
a habitat south of the site around the Glens Falls Dump area. Initially, I was interested in a clearing
in the otherwise heavily forested parcel. However, according to the consultant VanDusen and
Steves, the clearing has grown up with thick second growth woody vegetation and is not a grassy
opening which would have posed a potential for lupine habitat. Since this is not the case, I do not
anticipate impact on the Karner blue from the subdivision. If you or the planning board members
have any questions regarding the Karner blue butterfly, I would be happy to talk to you. Sincerely,
Kathy O’Brien Biologist I, Wildlife Endangered Species Unit”
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-Good evening.
MR. NACE-Good evening. For the record, Tom Nace, Nace Engineering, and Matt Steves, from
VanDusen and Steves, representing Mr. Vasiliou.
MR. MAC EWAN-Anything you wanted to add?
MR. NACE-No, you’ve received a letter from DEC. I think there have been ongoing discussions.
Mr. O’Connor couldn’t be here. He had to be down in Newburgh, but I believe he has had ongoing
discussions with Mark Schachner regarding the zoning notification issue. We had, last week when we
left the meeting, we sat outside with some of the neighbors for probably the better part of an hour
and discussed the proposed subdivision, and I think when we left, at least there were no neighbors
there that I’m aware of that had any issues remaining, and I understand, I don’t know if Staff got a
letter today, but the Wilsons were supposed to have sent a letter. Mr. O’Connor talked with them.
They were the two that were most vocal about not having been notified of the Zoning Board
meeting. He talked with them today. Both of them had no further issues with the subdivision, and
they were supposed to have sent a letter to Staff today, but I guess that hasn’t happened.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. Well, if we should approve this thing, we have language in a resolution
that would cover, like a safety net, so to speak, should that ever happen. I don’t foresee that it will,
but it’s there in case it does. Okay. Anything else to add?
MR. NACE-No.
MR. MAC EWAN-John, we’ll start with you. Any questions?
MR. STROUGH-Just that I know that, part of the safety net to this is, if I understand it right, that
Mike is willing to go to the Zoning Board if anyone initiates an Article 78 proceeding?
MS. RADNER-It changed a little bit from that. The language that’s now being talked about says that
it will go to the ZBA in February, and earlier discussion was that it would go if requested, and now
the agreement is that it’s going to go at the first February ZBA meeting, and that’s in your packets.
MR. STROUGH-So it’s going to go to the ZBA?
MS. RADNER-Yes.
MR. STROUGH-And that’s going to receive public notice.
MS. RADNER-Yes.
MR. NACE-We’re doing it under protest, but it seems about the only way to move this forward
among the lawyers.
MR. STROUGH-I’m fine, Mr. Chairman.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. MAC EWAN-Chris?
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m all set.
MR. MAC EWAN-Cathy?
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Fine.
MR. MAC EWAN-Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t see anything above what I asked the last time, I guess.
MR. MAC EWAN-Larry?
MR. RINGER-No.
MR. MAC EWAN-Tony?
MR. METIVIER-Nothing.
MR. MAC EWAN-Staff?
MRS. MOORE-Would you like me to read those conditions in so that everybody can know what
they are?
MR. MAC EWAN-Please do.
MRS. MOORE-The following conditions are proposed, Number One, the Planning Board and
applicant are aware that a group of neighbors with property within 500 feet of the subdivision
property were inadvertently not notified of the ZBA variance application relating to this subdivision.
However, these neighbors were duly notified of the subdivision public hearing through the mailing of
appropriate notices by Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested on January 6, 2001. As a condition
of this subdivision approval, the applicant agrees that the variance application will be returned to the
ZBA for rehearing at its February ZBA meeting for rehearing. Therefore, this subdivision approval
shall neither be effective, nor shall this condition be deemed fulfilled until and unless a favorable
ZBA variance determination is received upon rehearing. Number Two, all necessary outside agency
approvals have been received by the applicant, with a copy sent to and received by the Planning
Department Staff with 180 days. Number Three, the plat must be filed with the County Clerk within
60 days of receipt by Planning Department Staff of outside agency approvals noted.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. Anything else?
MRS. MOORE-No.
MR. VOLLARO-I just have one quick question. On the location of the septic tanks, did we ever
settle that, when we were talking about moving those septic tanks to the side yard, and I think my
comments on that, let the building inspector take the responsibility for where they ought to go. Did
we ever settle that out?
MR. MAC EWAN-No. All they do is demonstrate on their subdivision map that the building
development area is able to handle not only a house but a septic system, whether it be on the side
yard, back yard, or front yard.
MR. VOLLARO-And the citing of it is up to the building inspector?
MR. MAC EWAN-I don’t know if it’s necessarily up to the building inspector. It’s up to the
developer, as long as it fits within those.
MR. NACE-It’s up to the builder and the homeowner, as long as it fits the criteria of the subdivision
plans.
MRS. MOORE-But just the notification that when I reviewed it with the building inspector, the
possibility may occur that if someone were to put a swimming pool on the site, and if you have the
proposed layout with the septic in the back yard, it’s possible on some of the other lots that are
smaller, that they’re going to be looking for Area Variances. So, it’s more of an awareness point.
MR. STEVES-I’ll quickly address that. These aren’t spec. They’re going to be built for specific
users, or, you know, owners, that if they’re anticipating a pool, they would probably negotiate at that
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
time to either have the septic on the side or in the front yard. So I would just leave it with the
negotiations between the builder and the purchaser.
MR. NACE-And these are one acre lots. Normally we get into issues like that on the 20,000 or
15,000 square foot lots.
MR. MAC EWAN-Anything else? Anything else, Staff?
MR. VOLLARO-This minimum landscaping package, we’re going to be expected to put a waiver on
that, I think, on the landscaping package, and what is proposed is a minimum landscaping package. I
think you described it the last time you were up there.
MR. NACE-Yes, and I had a conversation with the developer, with Mike Vasiliou. He is requiring
each of the homeowners to have a $3,000 allowance. Of that $1800 is dedicated to landscaping only,
but his experience is that most of them will actually be more than that. These are higher end homes,
large lots. I think the real issue here is, you know, your subdivision code requires the landscaping
plan, but we don’t have the opportunity to do landscaping on the right of way, and I think that’s
what that code, back 30 years ago, was probably written for was street tree type of landscaping.
MR. MAC EWAN-Anything else?
MR. VOLLARO-No, I don’t think so.
MR. MAC EWAN-Anyone else? Okay. We have a public hearing left open on this application.
Does anyone want to comment on this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. MAC EWAN-We need to do a SEQRA, please. They submitted the Long Form.
MRS. MOORE-It’s the Long Form.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO 6-2000, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Anthony Metivier:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
MICHAEL VASILIOU, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board
action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality
Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and
having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation
of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action
about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the
Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by
law.
Duly adopted this 23 day of January, 2001, by the following vote:
rd
AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer,
Mr. MacEwan
NOES: NONE
MR. MAC EWAN-Would someone like to introduce a motion for Preliminary Stage?
MR. VOLLARO-Prior to the motion, Mr. Chairman, I think that the approved, the written
resolution is missing some correspondence, that probably ought to be injected as part of the motion.
MR. HUNSINGER-I thought the same thing, but the language here says, all newly received
information not included as of 1/23/01. So it is referenced, even though it’s not specifically
referenced.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-Yes, I mean, that’s a standard boilerplate that they put in there, so they can cover
any additional information that you received after this was drafted.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-So we’re covered on that.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, one of these is dated 12/15, that’s from C. Round to J. Houston, P.E., of
C.T. Male. I don’t know whether that figures in on the overall of not.
MR. HUNSINGER-12/15 C.T. Male Engineering review?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it is referenced.
MR. VOLLARO-Where do you see that?
MR. MAC EWAN-Way down at the bottom of the resolution.
MR. RINGER-We’ve got the new resolution, Bob.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, we’ve got the new resolution tonight.
MR. RINGER-With all the stuff in it.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. RINGER-And the only thing that’s not in there is the January 23 letter from Nace.
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MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I’m looking at a different one.
MR. RINGER-Yes, right. That’s got everything that you’d want in there, except the letter of the 23
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from Nace, and I wrote that in, if you want to do that.
MR. VOLLARO-All right. I’ll make the motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 6-2000
MICHAEL VASILIOU, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Chris Hunsinger:
WHEREAS, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of a preliminary stage application, Sub. 6-2000,
Michael Vasiliou to subdivide a 32 +/- acre lot into 28 residential lots. Tax Map No. 121-1-2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 11, 1.3, and;
WHEREAS, the application was received 11/29/00, and
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
WHEREAS, the above is supported with the following documentation, and inclusive of all newly
received information, not included as of 1/23/01:
1/22/01 New Info received per resolution dated 1/16/01
1/16/01 Planning Board resolution – tabled
1/16/01 Staff Notes
1/16/01 N. Wilson to Planning Board members
1/11/01 C. Round from CT Male Assoc. engineering review comment
1/10/01 T. Nace to CT Male Assoc. – info sent per phone conversation
1/8/01 C. Round from T. Nace – new info in response to CT Male comment of
12/15/00
1/8/01 K. O’Brien (DEC) from L. Moore: transmittal of revised information
1/8/01 J. Edwards (CT Male) from L. Moore – transmittal of revised information
1/3/01 Meeting Notice letter
12/19/00 Planning Board resolution – tabled to January 16, 2001
12/19/00 Staff Notes
12/18/00 Fax to agents of Staff notes
12/15/00 CT Male engineering review comments
12/14/00 Fax to J. Edwards from L. -Moore
12/12/00 M. Shaw from M. Ryba
12/12/00 K. O’Brien (DEC) from L. Moore
12/8/00 Meeting Notice
Other:
Map TOQ Lupine & Karner Blue Butterfly surveys – Protection Areas
WHEREAS, public hearing was held on December 19, 2000, January 16, 2001, January 23, 2001
(certified mail receipts received) concerning the above project; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the Subdivision
requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code of the
Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered
and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if application is a
modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or significantly different
environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that
The application for preliminary stage is approved in accordance with resolution as prepared by
Staff and is subject to the following:
1. That it include the 1/23/01 letter from Nace Engineering, and
2. The Planning Board and applicant are aware that a group of neighbors
with property within 500’ of the subdivision property were inadvertently
not notified of the ZBA variance application relating to this subdivision.
However, these neighbors were duly notified of the subdivision public
hearing through the mailing of appropriate notices by certified mail –
return receipt requested, on January 6, 2001. As a condition of this
subdivision approval, the applicant agrees that the variance application
will be returned to the ZBA for rehearing at its February ZBA meeting
for rehearing. Therefore, this subdivision approval shall neither be
effective nor shall this condition be deemed fulfilled until and unless a
favorable ZBA variance determination is received upon rehearing.
Duly adopted this 23 day of January 2001 by the following vote:
rd
MRS. MOORE-Sorry to interrupt. Waivers? I know that.
MR. VOLLARO-That goes on Final?
MRS. MOORE-Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
AYES: Mr. Hunsinger, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough,
Mr. MacEwan
NOES: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 6-2000 MICHAEL
VASILIOU, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by Larry Ringer:
WHEREAS, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of a final stage application, Sub. 6-2000, Michael
Vasiliou to subdivide a 32 +/- acre lot into 28 residential lots. Tax Map No. 121-1-2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,
11, 1.3, and;
WHEREAS, the application was received 11/29/00, and
WHEREAS, the above is supported with the following documentation, and inclusive of all newly
received information, not included as of 1/23/01:
1/22/01 New Info received per resolution dated 1/16/01
1/16/01 Planning Board resolution – tabled
1/16/01 Staff Notes
1/16/01 N. Wilson to Planning Board members
1/11/01 C. Round from CT Male Assoc. engineering review comment
1/10/01 T. Nace to CT Male Assoc. – info sent per phone conversation
1/8/01 C. Round from T. Nace – new info in response to CT Male comment of
12/15/00
1/8/01 K. O’Brien (DEC) from L. Moore: transmittal of revised information
1/8/01 J. Edwards (CT Male) from L. Moore – transmittal of revised information
1/3/01 Meeting Notice letter
12/19/00 Planning Board resolution – tabled to January 16, 2001
12/19/00 Staff Notes
12/18/00 Fax to agents of Staff notes
12/15/00 CT Male engineering review comments
12/14/00 Fax to J. Edwards from L. -Moore
12/12/00 M. Shaw from M. Ryba
12/12/00 K. O’Brien (DEC) from L. Moore
12/8/00 Meeting Notice
Other:
Map TOQ Lupine & Karner Blue Butterfly surveys – Protection Areas
WHEREAS, public hearing was held on December 19, 2000, January 16, 2001, January 23, 2001
(certified mail receipts received) concerning the above project; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the Subdivision
requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code of the
Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered
and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if application is a
modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or significantly different
environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that
The application for final stage in accordance with the resolution as prepared by Staff and is subject to
the following:
1. A waiver be granted for the landscaping, per Chapter 183-47; and
2. The letter from K. O’Brien (DEC) dated January 23, 2001 be included,
and,
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
3. The Planning Board and applicant are aware that a group of neighbors
with property within 500’ of the subdivision property were inadvertently
not notified of the ZBA variance application relating to this subdivision.
However, these neighbors were duly notified of the subdivision public
hearing through the mailing of appropriate notices by certified mail –
return receipt requested, on January 6, 2001. As a condition of this
subdivision approval, the applicant agrees that the variance application
will be returned to the ZBA for rehearing at its February ZBA meeting
for rehearing. Therefore, this subdivision approval shall neither be
effective nor shall this condition be deemed fulfilled until an, unless a
favorable ZBA variance determination is received upon rehearing, and
.
4. All necessary outside agency approvals have been received by the
applicant, with a copy sent to and received by Planning Department
Staff within 180 days, and
5. The plat must be filed with the County Clerk within 60 days of receipt
by Planning Department Staff of outside agency approvals noted.
Duly adopted this 23 day of January 2001 by the following vote:
rd
AYES: Mr. Ringer, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Vollaro,
Mr. MacEwan
NOES: NONE
MR. MAC EWAN-You’re all set.
MR. NACE-Thank you.
MR. STEVES-Thank you.
MR. MAC EWAN-Good luck at the ZBA.
SITE PLAN NO. 17-88 TYPE: UNLISTED MODIFICATION GEORGE RYAN
OWNER: SAME ZONE: SR-1A LOCATION: ROUTE 149 APPLICANT PROPOSES
TO MODIFY APPROVED SITE PLAN FOR A COMMERCIAL FARM FACILITY
(CLASS C & D FARM, SP 17-88). THE APPLICANT INTENDS TO REBUILD THE
FARM STAND THAT WAS DESTROYED BY FIRE AND REQUESTS APPROVAL FOR
A 5,500 SQ. FT. CONSTRUCTED GREENHOUSE WITH A LOADING DOCK. THE
APPLICANT ALSO SEEKS APPROVAL FOR A 5,500 SQ. FT. GREENHOUSE FOR
FUTURE PLACEMENT ON THE SITE. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 35-93, SP 41-93
OLD TAX MAP NO.: 27-1-28.1 NEW TAX MAP NO.: 266.03-1-9 LOT SIZE: 5.058
ACRES SECTION: 179-19, 179-63
GEORGE RYAN, PRESENT
MRS. LA BOMBARD-And there is a public hearing tonight.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 17-88, Modification, George Ryan, Meeting Date: January 23, 2001
“Project Background
The applicant’s site plan 17-88 was approved for a Class C and D Farm as outlined in Section 179-63.
This allows commercial agriculture and keeping of farm animals. The zoning ordinance prior to
1988 allowed Class C and D farms as a permitted use and Class A and B Farms through site plan
review in the Suburban Residential Zone. Since the 1988 ordinance was adopted all farm classes in
the Suburban Residential zone are required to have site plan review.
The approved site plan 17-88 was for a farm stand, a green house, an existing dwelling and garage,
and a variety of crops. The plot plan shows three driveways, one for the dwelling and two for the
farm. The farm stand included a storage area and a cooler. The parking area proposed was to be
16,000 square feet with separate drives for ingress and egress.
Project Description
The applicant has been informed of non-compliance issues, most recently, by letter dated November
3, 2000 from Craig Brown, Code Compliance Officer. The applicant is working with the Code
Compliance Officer and the Building Department to review the improvements on site. The
applicant requests approval of the 5,500 square foot constructed greenhouse with loading docks.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
The applicant’s business (farm stand and greenhouses) was destroyed by fire in August of 1999. The
applicant wants to replace the farm stand and some of the greenhouses in kind, per section 179-83 of
the ordinance. In addition, the applicant has enlarged one of the greenhouses beyond the original
footprint. The enlargement of the one greenhouse and future expansion of the greenhouse requires
a modification of the previously approved site plan.
Site Overview
The applicant has provided a plan of the existing and proposed conditions of the site and a letter
describing the improvements. The plot plan indicates three greenhouses (27’x 48’, 25’x 72’, and 50’x
112’(new)), a farm stand (50’x 40’), a pig pen, a wood shed, a propane re-fill area, a well shed, a coal
mulch bin, a chicken coop, a dwelling, and a garage. The applicant does not propose any additional
improvements such as landscaping or lighting.
The applicant’s existing approval was for three entrances and a parking area of about 16,000 square feet.
The plot plan provided with the modification shows four access points to the site and a parking area of
about 22,339 square feet. Currently, the main access (two drives) to the site is used for both delivery and
customers. There is a separate entrance for the applicant’s home. The site has an additional entrance
that is currently blocked by motor home; the applicant is selling that. The parking area and garden
access road are graveled. The Board may consider requiring additional definition to the site, such as
signage indicating shared access for customers and delivery trucks.
Areas of Concern or Importance
The Board may consider the agricultural uses; cultivation and sale of crops and the keeping of farm
animals (not specifically approved in original site plan) on site and determine their compatibility with
the neighborhood.
Suggestions
Staff would suggest the applicant plant additional trees near the property line of the project area
(This would include the North, West and South property lines.).”
MR. MAC EWAN-Anything else?
MRS. MOORE-No.
MR. MAC EWAN-Good evening.
MR. RYAN-How are you guys doing?
MR. MAC EWAN-Good. Would you identify yourself for the record.
MR. RYAN-George Ryan. I have a copy of my 1988 Site Plan Review. I already was approved for
this farm. I’ve been having some trouble with the Town. Every time we get a new planning,
community affairs fellow in, I’ve been a nonconforming, pre-existing place. They tear me apart.
They tell me to take the pigs out, can’t sell Snapple, can’t sell propane, and now I had a fire and I
started rebuilding and I’ve been through a problem, but here’s a copy of my original site plan review,
and you can see what it says right here, pass unanimously, Class C & D Farm for zoning. I shouldn’t
even be here today. I really get harassed by the zoning and stuff because they’re uneducated on it.
They don’t do any homework. I started, in the early 70’s I went to the Town when I wanted to sell
something there, and they gave me a permit. I have them, all the way up until 1988, and I had a site
plan review. I told them what I was doing. I have a copy here. I’m doing the same thing.
Unfortunately, I had a fire, and the zoning gets tougher and tougher. The agriculture department is
where I get my permits now, and I had a delicatessen and whatever else you want to call it. I buy
low, sell high, whatever I can sell. I’ve been doing on, and I plan to keep on doing it, and I’m just
here because the Town asked me to come, but if you’d like to see this copy of the original ’88 site
plan review.
MR. VOLLARO-We have a copy of it.
MR. RYAN-And I’m not going to do anything different, but if you guys have a better idea, I’ll be
glad to tear that all down and start over.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your project, Mr. Ryan, and what you
anticipate that’s different from 1988 that you’re going to do now?
MR. RYAN-Not a thing.
MR. MAC EWAN-Then why are we asking for a modification, then?
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MR. RYAN-The Town’s been after me. I can show you letters here from when Jim Martin came.
Every time we have a new Zoning Administrator in the Town, there’s nobody that runs that, the
problem is that there’s nobody that runs that office down there. You can talk to them until you’re
blue in the face. You can show them permits. I can show them this. I’ve been in front of Mr.
Brandt, when he was the Town Supervisor. I’ve been in front of Mr. Champagne, and every time we
get a new community man comes in, I’m a suburban residential pig farmer. I was zoned Highway
Commercial, and then they made me Suburban Residential. I went in front of the Town Planning
Board. They told me I would have to do this once. I was 17. I’m now 42. For 20 years I’ve really
been abused by the Town. I don’t hate anybody down there, but the girls could tell you. I’m down
there constantly, somebody’s giving me some kind of abuse. I had an attorney. My attorney is now
the Town’s attorney. I paid numerous dollars to them over the years, and I’m just here to try to
resolve this. They asked me to come here. I was really offended by even coming. I’ve been in front
of the Judge this month. He told me to come talk to the Town Supervisor because I had a Stop
Work Order, and it’s just uneducation down, it’s these people, we’ve got a Town here, they started
the Master Plan in 1988. We’re through the Millennium and they can’t get it accomplished. These
are the people that are running our Department down there. It’s helter skelter. Try to talk to
somebody down there. They would not even talk to me down there until I went in front of the
Judge, and then they started listening to me.
MR. MAC EWAN-Mr. Ryan, let’s try to keep the train on the track here. What is different in this
site plan that you have in front of us tonight, than what was originally approved in 1988 in your
opinion? Is there any differences whatsoever?
MR. RYAN-The only difference is, I put a new greenhouse up that I took it down from Suttons.
They told me I didn’t need any permit. After I got it up and working on it for eight months, I had to
get a permit. There’s nothing different. I moved my fences back. My parking lot got smaller
because I have to prepare for the road. I had a fire, so now I’ve got to start all over. I mean, and I’m
just trying to make a living. I don’t know what I’m going to do, what I’m going to do different. I
didn’t do anything different.
MR. RINGER-What do you sell there, Mr. Ryan?
MR. RYAN-I sell vegetables, honey, maple syrup, furniture, whatever. If I could go to Lowe’s and
buy something on sale and bring it home and sell it, I do it. Whatever I have to do. I have a family.
MR. RINGER-Your site plan approval says that you can sell flowers, shrubs, vegetables, have a walk-
in cooler and a greenhouse.
MR. RYAN-I have all that. I sell roses.
MR. RINGER-It doesn’t say anything about anything else that you can sell other than that.
MR. RYAN-Well, I can show you a letter here I got from the Assessor. She doesn’t seem to think
that I’m agriculture because I resale. I have a permit here to sell propane, got that in 1980. Over the
years I kept growing. I sell sandwiches. I have a letter here from 1993, they said I can’t sell Snapple
anymore. They said I can’t sell propane. I resolved that issue.
MR. MAC EWAN-How was it resolved?
MR. RYAN-Once they found out that I got permits, I didn’t go on doing any of this myself. Every
time I wanted to do something or sell something I came to the Town and got a permit. I got original
site plan review, and then when I wanted to put the propane in, I was making pies there. The Fire
Marshal came over and said, well, you should have, I’ve got the permit, 1990, for that. In 1991 I
went in front of another lady, Pat Crayford. She gave me permission for another greenhouse.
Today, mostly, if you go up and down the road, I was the first one down on that road doing this. If
you go around the corner, there’s greenhouses up and down 149, and they just kind of put them up
with no permits.
MR. MAC EWAN-So since 1988, you’ve gone into the business from basically?
MR. RYAN-Well, before 1988, I was over at Price Chopper’s parking lot. I did a better business
over there, and it was a lot easier to deal with the Town, since ’79. I gave the Town a bond of
$5,000, and they told me to go in business. I’ve got the, I could show you them right here. I go to
sell stuff, and it says to do business in the Town of Queensbury, over the years, and I did good. This
is a picture of the old Town, and here it is. Here’s one from ’86. I mean, I have them from all
different years. The Town of Queensbury hereby gives George Ryan, representing himself,
permission to do business in the Town. Then in 1988, they asked, I have an old truck. I drive it
around and sell stuff. Then in 1988 they asked me to have a site plan review, which I did. I was
approved, and I keep doing what I’m doing. It’s really agriculture. The Agriculture Department
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markets, they come and give me the permits and check everything, make sure the coolers are working
and whatever, and I only usually open about six months a year.
MR. MAC EWAN-When you got issued your stop work order, in a letter that the Town sent you on
November the 3, what was the Stop Work Order in reference to? What was the structure you were
rd
building?
MR. RYAN-There was a greenhouse that I came down to the Town and told them that I was taking
it down at Suttons, and they looked at it, and they said I didn’t need no permit, but then they didn’t
want to look at the plans, and I put wood on it. So Dave Hatin came down with the fellow, and if
you talk to them, I’m doing everything wrong, but they said there’s no wood in the greenhouse.
Well, over the years, before I could afford plastic, I had all kinds of wood ones, and it probably was
true some day that you couldn’t use wood, but now they have pressure treated wood.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, the first paragraph on the second page of the letter from the Code
Compliance Officer to you says that, “the current conditions on the site are above and beyond the
approvals issued under Site Plan Review File No. 17-88”, which is the original site plan you keep
referencing.
MR. RYAN-That’s probably his personal opinion, but if you read right in here, it says I wanted
parking for 100 cars in 1988. Now, if you think that’s kind of small, maybe it is. I don’t have parking
for 100 cars today, and the way I took it when I was doing this was this was a commercial farm, and I
was approved for Class A & B and C & D, and I was also understood that I’d have to do this once in
a lifetime. The Town was a lot more user friendly then. Hildegarde Mann, the people were upset
about some of the things. The Planning Board sat down with me and asked me to move a few
things. Can you move your greenhouse. They worked with me. The end of the meeting in 1980, I
went home and started building. I didn’t have to have all these guys. The telephone company gave
me four telephone poles. I put them in the ground and bought some trusses and started building a
building. It wasn’t like it was today. It was a different world. Unfortunately, I would have been all
set, but I had a fire. You know who lost during the fire? George Ryan. Because I haven’t farm
insurance company. I didn’t get rich over this thing. If it burns again, I don’t even care if they put it
out. They’d save me a lot of stuff to take to the dump. Hopefully it won’t, but I can show you here,
every time we have a new zoning officer, even Jim Martin, I went through this with him, with Pat
Crayford. There’s no place for, you look in your Code book what it says under farm. After it gets to
the farm, there’s no rules and regulations. The Agriculture Department came in and took care of me.
When they come and inspect my flowers, you know, they ask me how much money I make, I send it
to them. They were giving me a hard time, and they asked me to come here. I was really, I sent that
letter because I really didn’t want to come here. The Agriculture Department advertises for me, but
the Assessor, she says that I’m not an agriculture business. I get my money from the agriculture
bank. I’m structured agriculture, but she says I’m retail. So, she says I’m retail. I go along with it,
and right now at the present time all I’m selling is nothing. I sell some propane if somebody stops,
but I’ve been building and trying to get going and raising some flowers, vegetables.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Could I ask a question, Mr. Ryan? Everything was okay. First of all, when
we went to your site, I recognized that Suttons building immediately.
MR. RYAN-Everything was fine.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-And you asked the Town for permission, you asked the Town if it was okay
to move Suttons, you took the frame and the windows. Did you take the roof also? No?
MR. RYAN-Just the frame and the windows.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Right.
MR. RYAN-And he had a wood building on the end of it.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Right.
MR. RYAN-Not as big as the one I put on.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Right, I didn’t think that was the same. Now is that little wood building on
the end like your office?
MR. RYAN-That little wood building, in agriculture, is the head house. I was going to put my
furnaces in there and vents.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-All right. Okay. I understand.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. RYAN-Or the electrical box, but I have a Stop Work Order. So I haven’t even been over there
working on that. I built another building in the back and put the heat out there.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Okay. Now, I’ve just got to make sure I’ve got this right. You went to the
Town and you asked them if it was okay to move the building?
MR. RYAN-They said that I didn’t need a permit because.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-But did they say it was okay to move the building?
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Okay.
MR. RYAN-I worked on it for eight months.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-So then you moved the building, and you worked on it for eight months.
MR. RYAN-And then I put wood on the end of it.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-And that’s when the Stop Work Order was issued?
MR. RYAN-You got it. He says that the wood is not a greenhouse.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-So the original part, the greenhouse part was okay, with the frame from
Suttons, with the windows and the frame, and that plastic type of?
MR. RYAN-I really can’t answer that because I’ve got a cooler inside. I put a cooler in. I used to
buy the pies by the truckload, okay. I have a big freezer. I have a big cooler. The cooler cost me
$15,000. It took me three years to save for it. The place burnt. The cooler is only a few years old.
So, the roof is a little melted a little bit. So I put it under this wood thing, inside the greenhouse.
They came on over and told me that doesn’t belong in the greenhouse. It doesn’t have this. Dave
Hatin and Chris, you know, every time they come, they have their own rules and regulations.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-All right. Well, what did they tell you to do to make it so your lot and your
site will be viable?
MR. RYAN-They told me to come here and talk to you.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Okay. Now I know where we’re going. So, in other words, if you tell us
exactly what your plans are for that little wooden structure on the side of your.
MR. RYAN-That’s the head house.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Yes, but I’ve got to have more detail than that because I’m not into this kind
of occupation, and I don’t know what that kind of jargon means in your business. So you’ve got to
tell us exactly what you’ve got there, what you’re going to use it for, and Dave Hatin said, did he kind
of say, well, whatever the Planning Board says, I’ll go along with?
MR. RYAN-No. He’s not that type of person.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Well, he’s got his regulations he has to follow, too.
MR. RYAN-I understand that.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-But did he give you any suggestions?
MR. RYAN-No.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Because we’ve got to have some place to start.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, I think the starting point we’ve got here, though, is the original 1988
approvals from the Planning Board, and if you look at the bottom of the first page of our Staff notes
which says the site overview, that tells you what’s currently on the site. In 1988, you were given
approval by the Planning Board to build one greenhouse, which is going to be a size of 25 by 72 feet.
It was going to be 160 to 170 feet off the road.
MR. RYAN-It still is. It’s still in the original place.
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MR. MAC EWAN-Your approval was to sell flowers, shrubs, vegetables, have a walk-in cooler and
the greenhouse, install a parking lot, and that’s all your approval was for.
MR. RYAN-In 1991 I came back to the Town and I got a permit to put another greenhouse up. In
1992, I came to the Town and put another greenhouse up. I didn’t need a permit because it was
considered a piece of equipment.
MR. MAC EWAN-Do we have those on record, that those were given approvals, too?
MRS. LA BOMBARD-So you have approval for three greenhouses.
MR. MAC EWAN-Wait a minute, Cathy.
MRS. MOORE-I can explain part of the, in this process greenhouses, if you look at the agricultural
definition of that, there are certain times when I would say, reading the definition from Building and
Codes, that they decided that a permit should be issued. Rereading the definition, they decided that,
you know, depending on, they’d have to evaluate the greenhouse. If it met some of the definitions
that said it was more structure, then it would need a permit, and if it met what a greenhouse, you
know, without the base floor, without the wood structure attached to it, then it’s not subject to, I
believe the Building Department, a building permit, maybe a CO.
MR. RYAN-But it’s subject to setbacks.
MRS. MOORE-That’s correct, that it would still be subject to the setback requirements, as Mr. Ryan
says.
MR. MAC EWAN-Just quickly looking at these two documents you’ve got here. We’ve got our Staff
notes here. On Page Two I’m looking at the November 3 letter where it talks about, in the
rd
paragraph it says it talks about requirements, building permits for greenhouses and basically kind of
defines what is a permanent greenhouse, versus a temporary greenhouse. Then if you look at the
Staff notes we have in front of us tonight, where it’s referencing the greenhouse, and I think in here
is where I read, too, that it was more of a permanent nature, which probably kicked you in to, one of
the things that’s kicked you in to being here. You shake your head no, but I go by, this Board goes
by what the Town tells us.
MR. RYAN-I’ve been to, you know, the Town of Queensbury has their own rules and regulations, I
understand.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s right, as with every town.
MR. RYAN-Anywhere in Warren County or Washington County, I wouldn’t even have to come in
front of a town. In Lake George, there’s a new greenhouse place that just came up, Lazy River.
They were exempted from any of the Town’s ordinances.
MR. MAC EWAN-With all due respect, Mr. Ryan, what happens in Washington County, what
happens in Rensselaer County or any other County is not germane to what’s happening here tonight.
I mean, we have rules that this Planning Board needs to follow. We have Zoning Ordinances in this
Town. We have site plan review that governs the actions this Board takes, and we’re obligated to
follow them. While it may be nice that, you know, maybe the Town of Greenwich or the Town of
Salem has a whole different criteria where maybe you don’t even need to see a building inspector.
MR. RYAN-I’m talking Warren County.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, there may be other spots in Warren County that are that way, but we’re not
in other spots. We’re in Queensbury. Unfortunately, these are rules. Either we play by these rules,
or we change the rules, and right now the rules are not changed, so we play by the ones we have in
front of us.
MR. RYAN-Well, they’re changed for some people, not everyone, but Ryan, he came to get a site
plan review in 1988. You go down the road, Martindale, he didn’t. He came a lot later than me. So
the rules are not for everybody.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, that’s an issue you need to take up with a different Board.
MR. RYAN-I’m just telling you how it is for fact to fact.
MR. RINGER-In your letter, Mr. Ryan, you said that, beginning in 1993, we experienced many
difficulties with the Town with the questioning of the sale of propane, Snapple. Also in question
were cement lawn ornaments and picnic tables. How did you resolve that in 1993?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. RYAN-I went to a meeting with the Town and they said there was no problem. In 1990 I got
permits for putting the propane and stuff in, and I put a little kitchen in and stuff.
MR. MAC EWAN-Who issued the permits?
MR. RYAN-I got one from the Fire Marshal, and I got one from the, there was a different fellow.
Every time somebody, the building, they bring these heads in, his name was John Goralski. I started
with a fellow named Mac Dean, but every time we change that. There was a Lynn Crawford. She
helped me get a greenhouse, and then every time over the years, and I expanded. Just like you guys,
I’m on my own destiny. If I don’t work, I don’t get paid. I have lights out there because I work at
night. I just can’t cut it in 10 hours. Some days I’ve got to work 12, and over the years, every time
they come to another person like that, I have to go through the whole thing. I’ve been in front of
the Town Boards. I’ve had Mark Schachner represent me as an attorney.
MS. RADNER-Can I interject here for a second? Mark Schachner represented this gentleman once
quite a long time ago. There’s not an ongoing relationship, and there’s nothing that has any impact
on this proceeding.
MR. RYAN-Mark Schachner represented me on this same process, problem that we had in 1993. He
is the fellow that fixed it for me. You asked me what happened in 1993, and it was Mark. I paid a
fee. I can show you a copy of the bill right here.
MR. MAC EWAN-So the issue we have here, to cut to the chase, here, is the three greenhouses
when he was approved for one. He has two extra that he shouldn’t have, right?
MR. RYAN-No.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-No, he was approved for three.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s what I’m trying to get a handle on here, the history of this thing, as far as,
I’m looking at one site plan. I don’t see any other site plans in front of me for approvals, that are in
my packet. That’s what I’m trying to get a handle on. Were the other two greenhouses approved,
through site plan approval, or?
MRS. MOORE-No, they were not through site plan approval.
MR. MAC EWAN-They’re administrative approvals, either a building permit or something?
MRS. MOORE-Either a building permit or the definition of a greenhouse under the agricultural.
MR. MAC EWAN-What about the LP gas? Was that done by the Town, as well?
MRS. MOORE-I believe it was.
MR. VOLLARO-It was for handling, not for sale.
MR. RYAN-See, here’s the permits. Everything I did I got a permit for, over all the years. Here’s
the Certificates of Compliance.
MR. MAC EWAN-What do you mean for handling, not for sale?
MR. VOLLARO-It talks about the storage and transportation of, but not the sale of.
MR. RINGER-Laura, is there anything on file in 1993, any correspondence or anything?
MRS. MOORE-What type of correspondence would you be looking for?
MR. RINGER-Well, he refers to, experienced many difficulties with the Town and the lawn
ornaments and the picnic tables and the Snapple. We’re going from a greenhouse to a full
commercial establishment. That’s why I’m wondering where that approval came from.
MR. RYAN-I was zoned Highway Commercial, within 500 feet of the intersection.
MR. RINGER-It isn’t that we don’t sympathize with you, Mr. Ryan. It’s just that we want to be sure
of everything that we’re doing.
MR. RYAN-I’m not here to have any sympathy. I’m here to keep going with the rest of my life.
This is my livelihood. I don’t need any sympathy. I just want to be able to go home. I wake at my
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house. I wake up in the morning, I put my hat on, I go outside and work. My pockets are empty. I
try to fill them at the end of the day.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Mr. Ryan, first of all. The fire was in August. So it hasn’t been eight
months.
MR. RYAN-No, it was last August, ma’am. It’s 18 months coming up.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-August ’99?
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-You’re right. Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-You made the comment about, he has the LP gas, for handling versus retail.
MR. VOLLARO-Versus selling. When I read the liquid propane gas permit, it doesn’t say anything
in there about selling liquid propane. It talks about storing and handling of liquid propane. There’s
nothing in there that talks about selling, and I think that’s why people are on top of you.
MR. RYAN-Well, I’ve got to show you right here. Can I get up and show you this?
MR. MAC EWAN-Sure.
MR. RYAN-See, that, sale of propane.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. Good enough for me.
MR. RYAN-1990. It’s just that I’m a nonconforming, pre-existing use. I did go for a site plan. It
isn’t a good zone. The Town told me over the years they were going to work on a Master Plan, they
were going to rezone me. I’m going to be dead by the time that happens. I’m running out of life
now.
MR. MAC EWAN-A question for Staff. Mrs. LaBombard just raised a pretty interesting point.
These greenhouses that he’s built, as a replacement, that are more of a permanent nature versus a
temporary nature, which were originally approved.
MRS. MOORE-There’s only one building right now that does not meet what, doesn’t meet the
agricultural definition that Dave Hatin is concerned about, and that’s the greenhouse that we’re
looking at. That circle on the plan is called new. There’s a portion that he’s building now, and he
would like to be able to expand that, say another greenhouse behind that one, the same size as the
one that’s currently constructed.
MR. MAC EWAN-Say that again, please.
MRS. MOORE-Okay. There’s currently a greenhouse on his property, as you see.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s the 50 by 112.
MRS. MOORE-Right.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-That’s the old Suttons building.
MRS. MOORE-Correct.
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MRS. MOORE-He would like to be able to have permission to construct another 50 by 112 behind
that.
MR. RYAN-Next to it, if I keep adding.
MR. VOLLARO-Does he have a permit now for this present unit?
MRS. MOORE-He’s currently working with Dave Hatin.
MR. RYAN-Yes, I have a permit.
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MRS. MOORE-He’s currently working with Dave Hatin and the Code Compliance Officer to obtain
the necessary, you know, approvals for the permit. He’s applied for the permit, yes, and the reason,
this is the only structure that’s of concern right now, because it needs site plan approval because it
doesn’t meet the definition for agricultural. It has more permanent fixtures.
MR. MAC EWAN-And shouldn’t that kick it into requesting a variance?
MRS. MOORE-No, site plan approval, yes. Site plan review, yes.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-So, my question to Craig was, then we have the authority to say that putting
up a greenhouse of a more permanent nature is okay?
MRS. MOORE-This size, and that there’s an intent to do the expansion. As noted on the plan, it has
to be the same size, 50 by 112, and it has to be adjacent to it, as described on the plan. If anything
changes with that, the applicant comes back for modification. Typically, my understanding is that
since they’re somewhat temporary in nature, it’s possible that he may need to put it some place else
on the property. I would request that the Board would want to see that sort of item again, through a
site plan modification, or through a whole new site plan.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Laura, what about that wooden structure that’s attached to the greenhouse,
where he keeps, he calls it the head house?
MR. RYAN-That’s where your vent’s going.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-What about that part?
MRS. MOORE-That’s why it’s coming before the Board.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-That’s the controversy.
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s not because of the foundation?
MRS. LA BOMBARD-It’s not because of the foundation?
MRS. MOORE-That’s some of it, too.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Yes, okay.
MR. VOLLARO-He’s putting it on a, there’s a definition of a greenhouse that’s covered with
polyethylene sheathing, and that’s not what he’s got. He’s got a wooden structure here, with
windows in it, and it’s a permanent wooden structure. So it doesn’t meet the definition of a
greenhouse. That’s what I’m reading right here, sir.
MR. RYAN-Yes, you’re right about the wooden, but.
MR. VOLLARO-It says a temporary greenhouse must consist of a framework covered with
polyethylene, and lacking of permanent, continuous foundation.
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Ryan’s new greenhouse, (lost word) from Suttons project and constructed on
the site, has already been constructed with a permanent and continuous concrete floor, slab and
foundation.
MR. RYAN-That’s wrong because it’s a non continuous foundation. It’s piers and a concrete slab,
and it’s the same way that Steve had it, and Steve didn’t have to get a permit. He took it down on
one end of his building, and put it up, I put it the same way.
MR. MAC EWAN-We’re not dealing with Mr. Sutton here. We’re dealing with you, Mr. Ryan.
MR. RYAN-But it’s not continuous. There’s no foundation. It’s piers. So continuous would be, if
the building was 50 by 100, you’d have a 50 by 100 perimeter around of concrete foot and four foot
down. I do not have that. On the wood structure, I do not have that. I have it in compliance with a
temporary building.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Well, Laura just alluded to the fact that, in the future, because this is of a
somewhat temporary nature, she did say that, that maybe he’d have to come to us again for a
modification. So what he’s saying does make it so it’s not as permanent as it could be.
MR. MAC EWAN-It doesn’t matter. What he’s done is not a temporary greenhouse. What he has
done, under the definition of the Ordinance, is a permanent fixture, a permanent structure.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Okay. All right. So we’re all on the same page.
MR. MAC EWAN-He can elaborate on that he’s not gone down two foot for footers, or whatever
the case may be. He’s met the definition of what a permanent structure is.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-So now we want to make sure.
MR. RYAN-Here’s the plan if you’d like to see it.
MR. VOLLARO-One of the things I don’t understand is we’re going to build another one of these,
that doesn’t show on the plan at all.
MRS. MOORE-He’s requesting future expansion.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-We have to have a site plan or something drawn.
MR. VOLLARO-There’s no dotted line that says, on here that says we’re going to build another one
of these, some time in the future.
MR. RYAN-Yes, it says proposed on the back. I’m proposing to put an addition right on it.
MRS. MOORE-Where it says, right above the word, the numbers 112, it says “expansion”.
MR. VOLLARO-It says “expand”, but expand, to me, means he’s expanding, that particular
greenhouse is subject to expansion just like it is. There’s not a second 50 by 112 right out in back of
it. I don’t see that at all.
MR. RYAN-Well, they keep bolting together, guys. They’re 25 foot sections that keep bolting
together. You see, it’s not a building like that. They’re only 25 foot structures. I’ve got the thing
here. You keep bolting them on and you can go two, three hundred feet. You just keep bolting
them together, a modular. It’s an aluminum structure that I cover with a plastic roof.
MR. HUNSINGER-So which direction would it go?
MR. RYAN-It would go to the north.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-So if we, you want our approval to.
MR. RYAN-To expand that.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-To make sure, to okay everything that you have, and then give, now, the only
thing is.
MR. RYAN-Because I’m ready to expand.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Now you have a road there.
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Well, it’s your own road. So you don’t have to worry about any. It’s a little
driveway. So we don’t have to worry about any setbacks.
MR. RYAN-I put a tollbooth in but nobody’s stopped.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-I’ll tell you something here. I kind of like what you’ve put up. I’ll be honest
with you.
MR. RYAN-Thank you.
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MRS. LA BOMBARD-But I’ll tell you another thing, that I’ve been playing golf at that golf course
next store for 15 years or more, and there is a lot of extra stuff on that site that probably shouldn’t be
there.
MR. RYAN-Well, I never got any notification from anybody telling me to move it. They’d have to
come over and show me.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Well, I’m just saying that I think that this site has a lot of potential, Mr. Ryan,
and I think that what you’re doing is probably going to be good, except that you ought to clean up
some of it, too, some of the stuff out there. There is some stuff that ought to be taken out, some old
equipment, machinery and stuff.
MR. RYAN-There’s old hay balers and stuff, you know, they still work.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Well, if you use them, whatever.
MR. RYAN-It’s like anything else. I would love to put another barn up, if we could discuss that
tonight, 40 by 80. We could get it all under cover.
MR. MAC EWAN-I think what needs to be done here, and this is just one guy’s opinion. I think
that your site plan needs to be totally revamped to show exactly what you’ve got on there, where it is,
and exactly what you want to put on there in addition to what you already have.
MR. RYAN-You have that, what you have in front of you.
MR. MAC EWAN-No, what I have is a circle that says expand. It doesn’t give me any dimensions
for a new greenhouse you want to put on there. You just now threw into the monkey wrench here a
barn that you want to put up. It doesn’t show me where the barn is, how big the barn’s going to be
and what the setbacks of the barn are going to be.
MR. RYAN-Right now, I’m the contractor, the plumber, the whole bit, the financier. I can only do a
little at a time. I’m not Lowe’s. I get up in the morning, I wake up and I head to the right direction.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s not the way to do a site plan.
MR. RYAN-Well, I’m only here because you guys asked me to be here.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Mr. Ryan, if you show us exactly what you want to do.
MR. RYAN-It shows it on that paper, exactly what I want to do.
MR. MAC EWAN-No, it doesn’t, Mr. Ryan.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Not exactly, because let me explain something to you. Every applicant that
comes in front of us, I don’t care if they’re the wealthiest person in this Town, that has no bearing.
They have to show us on paper exactly what they’re going to do and we will not approve it unless
we see it, and, you know, if you showed us, it would be a lot easier for us to give you approval.
MR. RYAN-I took the time to draw those pictures up, and those papers and showed you, the two
greenhouses that are up there, before this new one, they’re in the same spot they’ve always been in. I
didn’t move them. They burnt down. I took the building down around them. They’re still there. I
have the permits for them. This new building that I put up, I have to tell you, I’m running out of
time. I’ve got to grow a crop for this spring. If you guys don’t want to give me any permission for
anything else, that’s fine. I mean, but, it’s whatever you want to do.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-But we do want to, but we’ve got to have it in front of us.
MR. RYAN-I gave you what it says. I measured out every one. I did just what that fellow wanted
me to do. If you looked at my original site plan review, and you looked at that, that’s a lot of effort
for me to take the time and to do that. I didn’t come here, I want to do that. They asked me to
come here and do that.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, Mr. Ryan, if you want to entertain having another greenhouse which is in
the area of where you have it circled and it says expand and new?
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-You need to show us, on the plan, the size of the greenhouse.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. RYAN-Okay. Well, I won’t put that one there anymore, okay. All I want to do is get home and
get to work. If you say you don’t want that there, they’ve got these other temporary ones you can
buy. They’re $1,000. You bang the pipes in the ground, and you can stick them anywhere as long as
you fit by the side, by the setbacks, and I showed you. I’ve got permits right here, Certificate of
Compliance, a temporary greenhouse in 1991, and I didn’t even have to come here. Maybe I’m just
better off sticking with them. They give you the permit right downstairs.
MR. MAC EWAN-When did you, I’m looking at a couple of things here on this site plan that came
with the application, this one here, that I didn’t see listed in your original approvals, unless they’re
some place else, but when did the coal/mulch bin come into play, and what is that used for?
MR. RYAN-The coal/mulch bin, I didn’t even get that in yet. That’s something I’m going to put
some coal burners in the heater because my furnace burnt up. So now I need a new boiler. You
guys have to realize, I had a fire. I lost a 5,000 square foot building. Now I have to take this new
building from Suttons and heat it. So I’m putting in some coal burners. It’s like an outside burner.
I’m going to put a little shed over the top of them, and I’m going to dump the coal in with my
Bobcat into the hoppers and that’s how I’m going to produce heat.
MR. MAC EWAN-Is that forced hot air? Is that how it works?
MR. RYAN-No, hot water.
MR. MAC EWAN-Hot water.
MR. RYAN-A million and a half BTU’s. It’s going to heat all those buildings, and that’s why I
wanted to expand now, okay, because the furnace I’m going to buy, should I buy one small and tear
that out when I want to expand, or should I come down and ask?
MR. MAC EWAN-Why are you locating it so far away from the buildings? Wouldn’t it make more
sense to have them closer to the buildings?
MR. RYAN-Well, because I wanted to keep adding to the buildings. See, they keep bolting together.
They’re temporary. This 25 foot (lost word) bolts on.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but your buildings expand to the north, don’t they?
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-What Mr. MacEwan is saying is why don’t you put your coal bin in closer proximity
to that greenhouse, so you don’t have to pump that water so far. I don’t want to get into the
engineering end of this thing, you know. It doesn’t even pay for me to talk about it. I’m sorry.
MR. MAC EWAN-The pig pen. Let’s move on to the pig pen for a second. When did that come on
the site?
MR. RYAN-That came on the site about 19, I don’t know, ’87, ’86, and all the wasted vegetables I
feed the pigs, and I eat them.
MR. MAC EWAN-Was the pig pen in use prior to the 1988 approval? Did you get approvals for
having the pigs on the site?
MR. RYAN-Yes, I did. I have approval for a Farm, Class C & D. I can show you right here, C& D,
and A & B.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, the only approval you have is for C & D, if you want to get to the original site
plan. I can only look at the original site plan that said, in 17-88, you had approval for a farm stand, a
greenhouse, an existing dwelling, and a C & D class farm. That’s what I get from the original site
plan.
MR. RYAN-Well, here’s the original, “Next order of business is Site Plan No. 17-88, George A.
Ryan, Farm to Market Road, between Ridge and Bay Road, proposal for a farm, Class A & B and
greenhouse.”
MR. MAC EWAN-The key word there is a “proposal”. That’s not what was approved. What was
approved was, it also determined that this is a Farm Class C & D, per Zoning Ordinance Section
7.080.
MR. RYAN-You’re right.
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MR. MAC EWAN-So that’s what you have approvals for. Now, back to the pigs. When did you get
approvals for the pigs?
MR. RYAN-The pigs were there ever since I had a site plan review and they’ve never left. They’ve
been there for years.
MR. STROUGH-If I’m not mistaken, Class D says that, as a hobby, you’re allowed to raise
agricultural products, keep large or small mammals, poultry, fowl, or domestic animals for personal
use or pleasure.
MR. RYAN-I’ve got some chickens, too.
MR. MAC EWAN-With site plan approval, though, right?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. STROUGH-No, it doesn’t say that in there, but I imagine that, I mean, it goes along with
agricultural use.
MR. RYAN-I wasn’t told not to have them.
MR. STROUGH-In 179-63. So it’s allowed under, if he was approved for Class D, then I would
assume that some form of it is approved.
MR. METIVIER-Mr. Ryan, how large do you think your greenhouse is going to be when it’s
completed?
MR. RYAN-Probably 10,000 square feet. I had 10,000 square feet before the fire. I had these
temporary greenhouses where you didn’t need permits. I took two of them down and put this one
up. I had a loading dock before I went. I’d buy the pies by the truckload, that come from Country
Home Pie. I’d bake them and sell them. I’ve got a big freezer, and I’m not doing anything different.
I’m just making it nicer, if anything. Instead of a tin roof I’ve put a shingled roof. I’ve got some
sidewalks I’m going to put in, and I just go as I can afford it.
MR. METIVIER-The greenhouse now it states here that it’s 112 by 150, and you’re going to expand
on to it?
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s 112 by 50.
MR. RYAN-No, 112 by 50 is the head house, the wooden part that I put on to it, and that’s where
my electrical box is and the fans and the stuff like that. The plastic makes condensation. I have a
seeder, and I’ve got to flat fill it. The seeder, you know, it’s production work. I grow close to a
million seedlings, and I have to just keep growing them and try to sell them. I sit there, I have a wife
and two kids. If my kids were old enough, they didn’t want to do this, I would close down and do
something different, because it’s not easy. It’s just a job I have. I work, and I’m happy doing it. I
live right there. It’s a farm.
MR. STROUGH-First of all, I appreciate, respect and admire your entrepreneurship, and I think
you’ve got the right idea. It’s a thematic theme. I mean, you’re talking about a commercial farm
facility, and I looked through the Comprehensive Land Use Plan, and it says it wants to maintain the
rural character of 149. Well, yours seems to be in line with that. I mean, the theme is as it is, and
then I looked in the new Zoning Ordinance, the proposed one that you may not have seen, that talks
about that particular intersection, and what you’re in, the 149/9L intersection, in a hope to develop
kind of a rural, Adirondack theme, and I don’t see anything wrong with your enterprise fitting into
that scheme, and I see nothing wrong with, you know, your basic concept, your greenhouses, your
produce stand, even the pigs seemed friendly enough. They were out today. They seemed to like
me, but that’s fine. I don’t have a problem with those pigs, and going hand in hand with your theme,
see, and I don’t have any problem with the lawn ornaments and things like that, because you will see
that in agricultural type stands elsewhere, okay, but I drove around, and if you don’t mind me
suggesting a few things?
MR. RYAN-Sure.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. Keeping in mind that I’m in line with you.
MR. RYAN-Yes, I hear you.
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MR. STROUGH-But when I was driving around, and I know some of this may be because of the
fire and you’re trying to get set up and all that, but, you know, as I drove around, I saw a lot of junk
over next to the greenhouse and then there was that walk-in refrigerator out in the back of the
greenhouse, and I don’t know where that’s going to go.
MR. RYAN-That was a freezer that was behind the building that burnt.
MR. STROUGH-And then there was that, as I drove around further, then you’re building your new
garage, what’s that about 14 by 24 or something like that?
MR. RYAN-That’s for the coal burners.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. Then to the right of that, as I’m driving out, there’s that other peaked place.
MR. RYAN-That’s my well.
MR. STROUGH-That’s the well house?
MR. RYAN-That I’m going to take down and fix up.
MR. STROUGH-Okay, and then I’m driving around and I see the blocks, and now we’re going over
by your coal/mulch bin. Then you’ve got a lot of junk just to the north of that, and then you’ve got
an RV parked in front of that one small gate, the 18 foot gate, and then you’ve got a boat for sale.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-The truck cap.
MR. RYAN-The truck cap goes on my own personal truck. It’s not for sale.
MR. STROUGH-The truck cap, that might be temporary, but my suggestion is that, your theme’s
fine. I think you’ve got to stay with your theme. I mean, you’ve got to develop your theme. You’ve
got to develop a comprehensive plan that would make your theme attractive. You’re on the right
track. You’ve got an excellent piece of property there, and there’s a lot you can do with it. It could
go places. Like I said, the theme that you have, there’s nothing wrong with that. I think you can do
a lot better, but it needs to be pulled in. It needs to be tied together. It gets a little bit of this, a little
bit of that, and it’s kind of messy in back, I think you’ll agree, but that may be temporary, you know,
as you got up out of bed or something, but, if we could pull this all together, you’d have a nice place
there, and I think that’s kind of what many people have said. I know Cathy tried to suggest it, is that
we almost have to sit down, for your benefit as well, and our benefit, you know, I’m here at least to
help you.
MR. RYAN-Right.
MR. STROUGH-And to help the community, too, and so we’re all moving in the same direction.
We certainly want an entrepreneur to do well. You seem to be a hardworking fellow, but I think
we’ve got to sit down and work out a plan. It doesn’t necessarily have to be done overnight, and I
know that you’ve got to do things as you can afford them, but, you know, and stay with the theme,
you know, that RV out there and the boat out there, this is kind of distracting from your theme. I
know you’re trying to make a buck.
MR. RYAN-You’re 100% right, but again, if that RV, if I could sell that and make $5,000 or $3,000,
that pays the taxes and pays me. At the same token, it’s hard to make a living. I have that piece of
land and I have to pay for everything. I sell trucks, dump trucks, whatever I can get my hands on,
farm tractors.
MR. STROUGH-Well, piecemeal, maybe you have to do that right now, but let’s try and go in one
direction here, you and us, and stay with your theme, make something attractive, make it look rural.
Make it look Adirondack, keep it in the direction of agricultural, you know, farm produce and pigs,
all that’s fine, as long as you’ve cleaned it up and made it more comprehensive.
MR. RYAN-You’re 100% right, and I like to hear you say that, agriculture, but is this Planning
Board, if I’m able to work with you guys on this thing, would you turn it over into agriculture? The
laws would be in my favor, better, if the Town had a, if we started a farm district in this Town, and
then we went to the County or somebody else regulated, you know, farms, all across the State, there’s
farm districts. Warren County’s one of the only County’s in the State that doesn’t have a farm
district. I go to a farm market every three days a week. I’m down in the Bronx two days a month. I
guy tomatoes. I buy all kinds of stuff. I don’t just sell them. I sell them at Price Chopper. If I can
get there in the morning, and a farmer’s got a truckload of tomatoes, and I buy that load, I’m selling
them that day at the market. When I came home, I’ve already made my day’s pay, and the tomatoes I
take home and sell or whatever, and there’s an Agriculture Department that works with farmers, in
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
every County but here. In Queensbury it’s not user friendly. If I sit out there and grow stuff, I
mean, I took an old truck, I have a ’48 truck and I used to sell stuff down at Price Chopper’s parking
lot. Well, I went down to the bank and borrowed $20,000 to sell that stuff. I was selling $80 to
$100,000 worth of stuff in six months down there. Is that commercial or is that not? You see, you
guys have a different idea of agriculture than I do, and then of the Agriculture Department, the
Agriculture Department advertises for me. They put me in a magazine. I sold hams and turkeys and
all kinds of stuff, but you guys don’t recognize at the Town of Queensbury.
MR. STROUGH-I, personally, do. I agree with it. The hams and stuff, I don’t have any problems
with. The RV and the boat, I have a little problem with it. The mess, I have a little problem with it.
We could start off by saying, you know, here we go. Here’s what you would like to do. I’m going to
clean up this mess. I’m going to clean up this out in back. Most of the mess is out in back. Clean it
up a little bit and possibly plant some trees up here, maybe close off that entrance where that RV is.
In other words, let’s get some definition. Let’s get some focus here, because it’s not focused. It’s ill
defined, and it’s in your benefit, too, if you keep going with the theme, to maintain this focus. I think
it’ll be good for your operation. Especially when we’re planning on, at least the future of 149 is more
and more in the direction of going commercial. So the more that happens, the more you’re going to
benefit by that. The more we stay with the theme that’s attractive, that will attract people to come to
Queensbury, to come to the 149 corridor, because it’s nice. It’s pleasant. It’s thematic. It’s
Adirondack. It’s going to work for everybody, but we’ve got to get everybody working in the same
direction.
MR. RYAN-I’ve done very good there. I’ve been there for 20 years, and I did have a very good place
like that. You can see some of the stuff that I was selling. The Agriculture Department advertises.
I’ve been in this for numerous years. They tell me what to sell and stuff. I’ve had a fire. Like said,
even when I did sell the agriculture stuff. I came in front of the Town and got a site plan review to
put a farm in. They didn’t ask me if I had pigs. I didn’t tell them I wasn’t going to. They didn’t tell
me I couldn’t have them. They didn’t ask me if I wasn’t going to sell this. They didn’t ask. I didn’t
want to say it. As I kept growing I kept growing. Today we’re at the Millennium. I had a fire, and
there’s no, if you look in your Code book, it doesn’t tell you too much. We can get Dave down
there. We can get Chris or anybody, and you can tell me one thing what that book says, and I can tell
you another one, and who’s to be right or wrong? It doesn’t tell you too much. It tells you, okay, if
you have a piece of land that’s Suburban Residential and you want to put a farm in, if you have more
than five acres, I had more than five acres. I fit the criteria. I fit everything in there. We can keep
coming in and saying, well, we have to have this, and, well, we have to have, it doesn’t say it clearly in
the paper, nowhere. It says on there if you’re going to have animals you should go by the Agriculture
standards. I feel if we’re going to have farm stands, we should go by the Agriculture structures. I
talked to the Town about writing to the Commissioner of Agriculture, ask him what he thinks a farm
stand is. I think that you’ll find that I fit in there pretty good, with farm stands, a truck farm. I
helped farm.
MR. STROUGH-This seems like you’re going bigger than just a stand. I mean, you want to do the
greenhouses, and that’s just fine. I’m just saying, it’s fine, but here’s an example. When I drive up
149 and I first approach your place as I’m coming from the east, I see a propane tank. Now, it
would be more pleasant if I didn’t see the propane tank, maybe hide it with shrubbery, and just see a
little sign, done in Adirondack style, the saying propane sold here.
MR. RYAN-Right. I hear you.
MR. STROUGH-That’s nicer, and that’s all I’m trying to say to you.
MR. RYAN-It could be done. It could be done very easily.
MR. STROUGH-Well, all I’m trying to say to you is just a few suggestions. I hope you don’t mind.
MR. RYAN-No, I don’t mind one little bit.
MR. STROUGH-But that’s the kind of thing that I think would be better for your business, and the
kind of things that we would rather see, too.
MR. RYAN-I hear you. It’s been an awful tough road for me to go through, too, okay, and it’s not
easy, but I have to find a happy medium with the Town. I don’t want to be out there working and
somebody always telling me I’m doing something wrong. I can show you right here the Certificates
of Compliance, all the permits. I never, ever had a problem. The people don’t even work for the
Town anymore that gave me most of this stuff. These are all Certificates of Compliance for different
buildings I’ve had up. Temporary greenhouses. You guys have seen these three greenhouses, but
how about the three I already took down, that the Town said I didn’t need permits for? They were
25 by 100 each, temporary greenhouses. They called them inflation busters. I took three down, and
I sold them to a fellow up in Warrensburg. So, I mean, I could go home now and you could say,
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
well, we can’t add that on, but I can go buy those temporary greenhouses and just keep lining them
up next to each other. You only use them for about four weeks out of the whole year.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Mr. Ryan, but the thing is, we would like you to do this plan like you want to,
but all we’re asking is that you tell us, I mean, we probably may not have any problem with your
expansion, except all we’ve asked is for you to show us on a drawing, which might mean that you
might have to take a couple of hours and fix this up and bring it back to us. Now, wouldn’t that be
more sensible to do it the right way then just to put up some temporary things when that’s what you
didn’t really want to do in the beginning? I mean, it just seems to me like we’re, we want to work
with you, and I don’t think you heard everything John said.
MR. RYAN-I heard what he said, and I appreciate what he said.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Because we really do want to work with you, and we know that, and I told
you, you have a spot here that could be a real knock out business, and I know you’ve done well, but
I’m just saying, it could really be an asset to that corridor, and this is what we’ve been trying to talk
about in the past few years, in this whole Comprehensive Land Use Plan, and the way we want things
to go a little bit in Queensbury. We don’t have all the right answers.
MR. RYAN-Exactly.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-We’re not the Gods that, what we say you have to do, but we’re trying to give
some suggestions to make our Town more attractive, and you’ve got a prime, beautiful piece of
property right here.
MR. RYAN-It didn’t come that way. It was all trees. I worked hard.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-I know, and I thought those lampposts you have there are beautiful. I mean,
like John says, you’ve got a theme going. Let’s kind of go with the theme, you know, and not detract
from it.
MR. STROUGH-Laura, has the Planning Department ever worked with individuals to suggest things
like trees here or this, I mean, is this unusual or no?
MRS. MOORE-No, that’s not unusual at all. We’ve sat down with Mr. Ryan on several occasions.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. So I think with that, I take that answer as, they’re willing to sit down with
you and help you develop a plan that would be good for you, and it’s a service your tax dollars pay
for, and I’d take advantage of it, and I think it would be a benefit to you. I mean, as far as I’m
concerned, Mr. Ryan, I’d approve your greenhouse tonight as long as you said that you’re going to
work in the direction of what I talked about before, building this theme, and maintaining the purity
of the theme, and working in that direction, so, I think we’ve got a working situation here. We’re
willing to help you.
MR. RYAN-You’re 100% about that, and she’s 100% right, and Laura, too, when she says they help
me, and many a times they’ve helped me a lot, the girls down there, and Laura will tell you she’ll help
me, but then you get a zoning guy that will say, you know, and it’s not his fault. He’s not picking on
me, but the book reads that I’m not in compliance on a lot of things. So he can come by there and
we could sit down with her, and he says, George, this isn’t right. See what I’m saying?
MR. STROUGH-Yes, I see what you’re saying, and Laura’s here. She hears what you’re saying.
MR. RYAN-Laura knows it. She’s been through it many a times I’ve sat down there with them and
I’ve seen us go just like this, two different ways.
MR. MAC EWAN-Let’s move it a long here a little bit. Chris, have you got anything you want to
throw in?
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I was sitting here listening and trying to figure out where we were at. I,
too, was confused, you know, from the beginning, what it was we were supposed to be doing here,
why we were here, and, you know, I agree with John. All we’re asking is that you give us the
information, so that we can work with you and hopefully do what’s right for everybody, and that’s
really all we’re looking to do, and, you know, I think I agree with a lot of what’s already been said. In
terms of approving an expanded or a new greenhouse, you need to tell us what it is you want to do
and we need to see it on paper so that it complies with our regulations.
MR. RYAN-So what we’re saying now, if I go home today, I’m catching on to my season now, okay,
you know, on God’s calendar, it takes so many days to get the seeds to flower. You’re telling me
right now if I go home and I leave them greenhouses just what I have, I get them all growing, my
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
crop, I’ll be all set. When I go to put an expansion in, I’ve got to come and put another plan in.
Draw the greenhouse on to Suttons, what I want to add on to that, and how many feet.
MR. STROUGH-When do you have to get to work on your greenhouse?
MR. RYAN-I haven’t stopped working on it, to be honest with you. I have to get it going because
some stuff I have to start now.
MR. STROUGH-So you’re basically here for the greenhouse approval, at least from Step One.
MR. RYAN-I want to start working, growing.
MR. STROUGH-Then we can worry about the other steps later, right?
MR. RYAN-You got it.
MR. STROUGH-So, I don’t know.
MRS. MOORE-I can volunteer some information. The applicant could volunteer to remove the
word “expansion” from the plan, and you could start at that point, reviewing the existing greenhouse
as constructed, so that it receives the site plan review specifically just for that greenhouse, and then if
the applicant proposes to expand at a future date, or put another type greenhouse on it, on the site,
that he either comes in for a modification, or a brand new site plan, things like that, so, an
opportunity for the Board.
MR. VOLLARO-George, let me ask you a question. Do you have, or know somebody that can help
you lay out on this site plan? Do you know of anybody that’ll give you a hand, to do it the way you
want it done, not the way, we’re not in the site plan producing business.
MR. RYAN-You see how you guys put it on paper? If you guys came on over, I’ll show you. I buy
the concrete. I’ll get the string, I’ll get the tape measure, and I start going. I square the building up
and build it. It’s easier for me to build it than it is to put it on paper. I’m a contractor. Will I take
the time and do it, if you guys want me to do it? Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s all I’m saying. I know that you’re short on time. That’s why I asked you, do
you know somebody who can give you a hand to do this the way you want it done, so that we can
understand it? It doesn’t have to be an engineering drawing. It can be just a reasonably good
depiction of what you would like to have on this site. So that we can approve the site plan. Right
now, I can hardly understand this one. I mean, I’ve been looking at plans for 72 years.
MR. RYAN-My original site plan, can I show it to you guys, from 1988, and I’ll show you how the
world changed?
MR. VOLLARO-We’re living in the world as it is now, George. I’ve got the same problem you do.
I’m a lot older than you are, and I’ve seen a hell of a lot more than you have, I’ve got to tell you.
That’s all I have.
MR. HUNSINGER-And, you know, I agree with you. I don’t think that we should get to the point
where we have to require every applicant to go out and hire an engineer to do a drawing, so that we
can review it, but, you know, we get used to looking at the engineered drawings, and then we look at
this, and we can’t figure out where things are, and then we have to ask a lot of questions.
MR. RYAN-I gave, Dave asked me for the plan for that greenhouse, where it says expansion. He
has it on his file, and it shows you a nice clear blue print of plan of how they go. Every eight feet,
there’s a 25 foot bow that just comes on to a four inch pipe. The four inch pipe is laid two foot
down below the frost, and you pour the concrete on it, and then you go another eight foot, and you
put another post, and you do the whole 112 foot like that, and then you pull the plastic over the top.
Eventually, I might not put plastic. I might put polygal. It’s like a plastic, and the plastic you have to
change it every four years. The polygal will last for 10 years. It gets to be labor intensive, and it’s
hard to get rid of the plastic, to change and I’ve been having these plastic buildings up for almost 20
years, and you guys are only showing three. I had three others up, and they were all on up there, and
I’ve taken them down, and I’m sacrificing now for square footage. Square footage is how I make
money.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. Larry, have you got anything you want to ask?
MR. RINGER-No, I don’t have anything.
MR. MAC EWAN-Comments? Tony?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. METIVIER-I’m still waiting on an answer. Your greenhouse that you bought from Mr. Sutton,
how big is that right now?
MR. RYAN-It’s 50 by 100.
MR. VOLLARO-By 112.
MR. RYAN-By 112, yes.
MR. METIVIER-So that’s what you show on the plans?
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MR. METIVIER-And would you be willing to take out the word “expansion” at this time, so you
could get started?
MR. RYAN-I sure would.
MR. METIVIER-Okay, and then any time in the future, if you want to make any changes with the
greenhouses you could do a site plan modification again? Would you be willing to do that?
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-I have to make a statement here. You really can’t put anything, do anything
else to that building without coming to us again.
MR. RYAN-I have to cut some vents in the side of that. The building won’t work good right now.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Well, I mean add on to the building. In other words, if you are thinking right
now that you want, you said you really need to expand. You were really adamant about that, about
20 minutes ago.
MR. RYAN-Yes.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Then if you have any inclination that you’re going to have to expand in
March, you should be here next month.
MR. RYAN-I would never expand in March because it’s the season. It would have to be in the
summer or the winter.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Well, then you should make your plans ahead of time, and make sure that you
come to us with ample time so that you can expand when you want to, and you don’t expand before
you come here. You can’t do that. Because I have no problem okaying this right now, if you take
the word “expand” out of there.
MR. RYAN-Yes. I have no problem with that. Now, there’s something that’s not shown on that
either, too, guys. My building that burnt is 40 by 50. I went down, they made me get, again, I built
that. It was simple. They made me get engineer’s stamps. I put a pole barn on and stuff. That
project, I’m going to go ahead with. Now the ground’s frozen, so I can’t put it in there, but I have
no problem getting the permit, and that goes out in front of this greenhouse.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Now where is that going?
MRS. MOORE-I’ll interrupt with that one. It’s called the farm stand. That’s the 50 by 40 that’s
noted on your plan, and that’s a replacement under the, it’s an allowed replacement under the fire,
because it’s the same size and it’s the same type of structure.
MR. VOLLARO-That farm stand was the pre-approved farm stand from the original site plan.
MRS. MOORE-Correct.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-And what kind of a roofline did that have, that little farm stand?
MR. RYAN-I gave them the plan and stuff. It has a 6/12 pitch, I think.
MRS. MOORE-But I will interject. If there’s any modification to it, and that’s, Dave Hatin and I
have discussed this. Any modification of that farm stand that wasn’t approved under the original,
then it’s possible it may be subject to site plan review or a site plan modification. So, once he comes
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
in and applies and reviews that with Dave Hatin, that’s something that Dave’s going to sit down with
the Planning Staff and discuss that at that time.
MR. RYAN-I did go in and talk to Dave already, and I gave him the plan, and he studied it and he
gave it back to me, and he asked me to get one more copy, and Dave told me to go talk to anybody
in his office that would sell me that permit at this time. I went over it with him. He has no problem
with that. I gave him the plan, and he went through that, and he told me that, to get one more copy,
and it has to be stamped from the engineer, and I’m to go on it. So, really, that’s all I would be
doing.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Would you talk to me about the fence? You said you were going to move the
fence back?
MR. RYAN-The fence I already moved.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-In the past two weeks?
MR. RYAN-No. I moved it when I put it on out. The State came through. They’re going to buy
some land from me.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-The white fence in the front?
MR. RYAN-Yes, I already.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-So that has already, when we were there a week and a half ago, it was moved?
That’s where it was supposed to be?
MR. RYAN-That’s where it’s going to be now.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Okay. I thought you were going to move it again, and I was like, where’s it
going to go?
MR. RYAN-No. That’s where the State asked me to move it, 17 feet from where it was.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. The sense I’m getting from the Board is that they’re kind of leaning
toward granting an approval for this greenhouse that’s 50 by 112. You’ve got to remember, there are
several other issues that are looming over this site plan that are active on this site plan that have not
been previously approved by other site plan approval processes. Did I get that all right?
MR. RINGER-That’s what I’m having difficulty with.
MR. MAC EWAN-I’m having a lot of difficulty with it.
MR. RINGER-That’s why I asked Laura if she, did you find any correspondence on the ’93 at all?
MRS. MOORE-Not the information you’re looking for.
MR. MAC EWAN-Mr. Ryan, while, personally, I feel bad for your situation and where you are, one
of the things that I’m having a real difficult time with is you were issued a Stop Work Order and you
just told us here a couple of minutes ago you’ve just continued on building.
MR. RYAN-No. I didn’t work on that building, but I had others he told me I could work on.
MR. MAC EWAN-That you could work on.
MR. RYAN-I didn’t work on that building. I had siding and stuff. I haven’t worked on that. He
told me I could keep working on the greenhouse, and other issues, and my heat, and I do have a
permit for those now.
MS. RADNER-Right. The Stop Work Order was for the wooden structure that was attached to the
greenhouse, and there was a court proceeding based on that wooden structure. That was what the
problem was.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay.
MS. RADNER-And that’s been resolved, according to my conversation yesterday with Dave.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. That has been resolved. Okay. Well, we still have an issue dealing with
the pigpen. The propane filling, we’re pretty clear on that, are we, Staff, that that was approved by
the Fire Marshal?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. That didn’t require a site plan approval, that propane filling service?
MRS. MOORE-Not that I’m aware of. It was done prior to this Board.
MR. MAC EWAN-I just want to get this straight. I’m kind of like going through a checklist, but the
pigpen has not been approved by any site plan?
MRS. MOORE-Other than at the 17-88 Site Plan, it was approved for Class C & D Farm, and that
does include the keeping of farm animals. So, if the Board is interested in possibly limiting the type
of animals that he keeps there, I think that you should discuss that.
MR. MAC EWAN-But wait a minute now here. It says here, in this site plan approval, in Site Plan
17-88, they gave a site plan approval for him to have this farming operation with these uses as
defined in this approval, and said that it fell under the Class C & D Town Ordinance for farming
operations. Am I right on that?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-And if you look at the Ordinance, the Ordinance clearly indicates in here that
Class A, B, C & D farm uses are all allowed uses within this zone, provided they have site plan
approval, and that’s defined right here on 179-19, under Site Plan Review Uses, Item A-4, it says
“Farm all classes”, they require site plan approval, right? So if he has the pig farm in here, pigs or
any other livestock for that matter, at what point were they approved to have the livestock there?
That’s what I want to know.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I think what Laura’s said is that.
MR. MAC EWAN-I’d like Laura to answer that for me, please.
MRS. MOORE-My understanding is that it was approved for a Class C & D Farm, which includes
the raising of, you know, the sale of flowers for commercial and the keeping of farm animals.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but it says, and being incidental to residential use. That’s the words I’m
having a problem with.
MRS. MOORE-He does have his residence on that property.
MR. MAC EWAN-Laura, are you referring to the Site Plan 17-88?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s what you’re referring to?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-See, I’m having real trouble with that. The sense I’m getting out of this is that,
although they recognize that that’s a Class C & D farm operation, it fits into those two categories,
which is within the SR-1A zone, that for any activity to be approved on that farm, as a farming
activity, requires site plan review.
MRS. MOORE-You’re saying that each use that is listed should come back before, prior to the
Board, for review? So if he sells flowers, he needs review?
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s correct, because what they gave approval for was very specific in here.
They gave approval to build a greenhouse. They gave approval to do flowers, shrubs and vegetables,
and to have a walk-in cooler and install a parking lot. Nowhere on there did they say have chickens,
cows, ducks, geese, pigs, horses or any of the above, and that, according to the Ordinance, requires
site plan approval. If I’m misinterpreting that, tell me. Am I all alone on this one?
MR. VOLLARO-No, because I think on Class D they even give you a little hint. They call it, hobby.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. STROUGH-I have no problem with it, because he did get a declassification, and it states quite
clearly that they can have it as a hobby, and why would they give him a Class D definition if they
didn’t intend that he would be allowed to use that?
MR. MAC EWAN-So you’re saying that the last sentence that says it’s a Class C & D just kind of is a
category that you can have anything that fits within that classification, without site plan approval?
MR. STROUGH-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-Then why does the Ordinance say you have to have site plan approval for those
uses?
MR. STROUGH-Well, that’s what I’m looking for, where that says that.
MR. RINGER-My difficulty is that I think he’s beyond a farm stand, and that’s where I don’t see
where he’s gotten any site plan approval.
MR. MAC EWAN-Right.
MR. RINGER-I think a variance really is in order.
MR. MAC EWAN-I think John said something earlier that hit the nail right on the head is that, Mr.
Ryan, what you need to do is come up with a master plan for this site, where you’d like it to be and
how much you’d like it developed, so we have a starting point, and something that we can work with
you, so that you don’t have to show up here every couple of years and get frustrated.
MR. RYAN-You’re 100% right. You’re 100% right, but right now, I had a fire. I’ve got 18 months
to rebuild it. It’s in my right. We take the expand out. I told you where the vegetable stand’s going,
and I’ll be fine.
MR. MAC EWAN-My worry with that, Mr. Ryan, is the history we have on this site. That we seem
to always get into a problem with enforcement, what’s the definition of what you can do, what’s the
definition of what you can’t do, and I’d like to get this resolved so that you’ll walk out of here
knowing exactly what you can do. The Town’s going to know exactly what you’re going to do, and
as other members of this Board said, that you’ll have a master plan to that site, so you’ll know exactly
where you want to go with it.
MR. RYAN-I’d feel a lot better if I knew that was there, nobody was going to give me a hard time.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, don’t you think maybe the vehicle we can get to that point is to come up
with a master plan for your site, lay it out the way you want it to be.
MR. RYAN-I laid it out right in front of you. That’ll get me going.
MR. MAC EWAN-There’s the key word, get you going. We’d like to get you going so you wouldn’t
have to come back, or have the Town chasing you because you’re putting up something else that you
didn’t have approvals on. That’s the problem.
MR. RYAN-Well, that’s what I’m here tonight. I had to stop for two months to get here tonight,
and I brought that in, and, I mean, I don’t know what to tell you. You’re going to do what you’re
going to do anyway.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s not true, Mr. Ryan, and you shouldn’t take that position. We’re here trying
to work with you. All we’re asking you is give us a definite scope, as a master plan, of what you want
to do with this site. Lay it out so that we can understand fully what your development plans are, so
that this Board can review this thing and come to a conclusion and say, okay, we know, over the
course of the next five years, he wants to put up three more greenhouses, you know, or something
along those lines. We just need to understand so you won’t be frustrated and say, well, you guys are
going to do whatever you’re going to do, because that’s not true. That’s not being fair to us. We’re
here trying to help you.
MR. STROUGH-Mr. Ryan, what do you need right now? Do you need that greenhouse approval?
Is that what you’re working on now?
MR. RYAN-Well.
MR. STROUGH-Here’s what I think. We could give you what you needed to do right now, so that
you can go and do your work.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. RYAN-Dave and Laura’s office, they asked me to come here for approval, because if I didn’t
come in front of you guys, I’m going to keep going on this old one. I knew what was said that day.
Hildegarde Mann’s still alive, the DeSantis’. We’ve talked about the farm and animals and different
classes. We talked about the fact that my land was Highway Commercial before I started this and got
rezoned. These were all issues we talked about, but what we talked about, rather than getting a
variance, what I put there fit in the guidelines of our grandfathers, whoever wrote this Master Plan
up or whatever, I put in front of you. It said if you had more than five acres, 1988, in a Suburban
Residential, with a site plan review, you can have a farm. I came to the Town. I followed all the
guidelines. I put it all through there, and you’re 100% right on what you’re saying, you want to see
the scope of the picture, but there’s nothing there, the definitions of a farm. You’re saying well,
somebody said, maybe he’s not doing the scope of a farm, and he could be 100% right, because if
he’s a farmer and I’m a farmer, we don’t have to do things the same way, as long as we have the same
kind of a thing. I raise my living right there on my own piece of land, just like that.
MR. STROUGH-Well, here’s what I’m thinking, okay. That’s why I asked you, you’ve got the
greenhouse, but we still have the farm stand. You can’t work on the farm stand until, what, April,
May anyway. Okay. So let’s say we gave approval to the greenhouse. Then, between now, and say
you want to start work on the farm stand and some other things you mentioned, the big barn,
between now and then, you’re going to come and maybe work with the Planning Department, maybe
work with some other people that you might know, and come up with a plan, and it’s going to say
this. All right. Here’s where I want my pig barn. Here’s where I’ve got my pigs, all right. Here, I’m
going to close this driveway off here, okay, because I know you guys don’t like it and that leaves me
two big driveways that are gated, and that’s all I need anyway, and I’m going to plant some trees
along here, and I’m going to put some shrubbery around that propane tank, and I’m going to get a
nice Adirondack sign saying propane sold here, instead of that being visual, and that’s all I want. So
we can give you approval on the greenhouse, knowing that you’re going to come back to us with a
better plan, and then, when you’ve got your pigs, and your plan, then we can approve the whole plan,
and then you’re okay, if we approve it.
MR. RYAN-And I understand that, but I came, this building that I’ve got to put up, this year, I had a
donut machine. I sold donuts, cider donuts, apples, for the fall. I made the donuts and I sold them.
This pole barn I’m going to put up, well, this year maybe I’ll get the pole barn up.
MR. STROUGH-That’s fine. Whatever you want to do, just, we’ll get a bigger plan, and lay it out.
You’ll work with them once and a while when you’ve got some spare time on a rainy day or
something, and we’ll see, we’ll put some trees out here, we’ll put some shrubbery around here. We’ll
dress it up. We’ll clean this up. We’ll put lawn there. You’ll build your barn. You’re going to put all
that stuff that you’ve got over by that other greenhouse over in that barn, get it at visually that it’s
going to look nicer. It’s going to be better for you. It’s going to be better for everybody, but what
I’m saying is, you know, we could work this out. What do you need now? Can we give you approval
on your greenhouse?
MR. RYAN-I’d love you to give me approval on the greenhouse.
MR. STROUGH-And then, knowing that you’re going to have to come back on this farm stand, and
some of the other.
MR. RYAN-But, I feel like, by coming back on the farm stand, it really hurts my feelings. Because I
had this building. It took me ten years to build. I got a loss. I lost it in the fire. I want to.
MR. STROUGH-Well, maybe I’m wrong about the farm stand.
MR. RYAN-That’s the only thing I want to keep going.
MR. STROUGH-What I’m saying is.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-The expansion.
MR. STROUGH-The expansion.
MR. RYAN-The expansion, I will do that.
MR. STROUGH-Right. Skip the farm stand, I mean, I was using that as an example of saying that
you’re going to come back and address this, okay.
MR. RYAN-But I definitely would come back and address you.
MR. STROUGH-Right.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. RYAN-And I said I’d put that barn up. You know, I have an old truck out there. It’s a 1948
GMC. That truck was (lost word) over here. Before I put my stand, I sold the vegetables, over in
Price Chopper’s parking lot. I sold them over at Firestone. I sold them over by Carvel. I sold them
at Len and Peg’s. I raised 36 acres of sweet corn in the Town of Queensbury. The corner piece of
land that somebody’s developing, I used to lease that and plant it. I’m not planting it anymore
because I don’t have any fields and my world’s turned around. What I’m trying to do right now is,
one thing that I have for me that (lost word) is I’ve already done all of this once. In my head, I know
how to do it. I’m smarter. I know what problems I’m going to come across. I have it. I can
conquer it.
MR. STROUGH-So basically we’re in agreement that, if we approve your greenhouse tonight, then
we condition that with, say, in the next four months, you will come back to us, within some time in
that time period, with a better plan, a more comprehensive plan, of all the things that you want to do,
okay, and that you have communicated with the Planning Department. I think that, through the
discussions tonight, I think we’re all headed in the right direction now.
MR. RYAN-I believe so.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. So you’re willing to do that. Is that workable?
MR. RYAN-I have no problem with that.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Should that be a stipulation, that by April 30, he will come back to us with
th
a?
MR. STROUGH-Well, I think he’s got to, because he’s got other things he wants to do this spring.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-All right.
MR. STROUGH-So is that all right, that stipulation, that by April 30?
th
MR. RYAN-Yes, we can handle that.
MR. MAC EWAN-We have a SEQRA to do. We have a public hearing to open, not that there’s
going to be a lot of comment on the public hearing. I’d get busy down there, if I were you, and start
penning a resolution, how you want to word it. Anything else?
MR. RINGER-I don’t necessarily agree with John.
MR. MAC EWAN-I don’t necessarily agree with him, either, but we’ll see where it goes.
MR. RINGER-I’d probably vote no on it. I think you’re just putting a band aid on the situation,
John. I like your idea. I think the area is right for what Mr. Ryan wants to do, but I think we should
do it right the first time, and not put a band aid on it. Understanding he’s got timeframes to be
concerned with, but.
MR. VOLLARO-Right.
MR. STROUGH-Well, he is just replacing the greenhouse that was burned down with a little bit
bigger one.
MR. RINGER-John, I don’t disagree with you. I just feel it’s a band aid approach, and I don’t, you
know.
MR. STROUGH-Well, I think in the long run, I think we can achieve what we all want to achieve,
and make the applicant at least happy in the sense that he can get the work done.
MR. RINGER-Well, it might make the applicant happy, but I think in two years or six months or
three years, he’s going to be back here, and he’s going to have the same things that the Town is doing
this and they’ve changed this and they’ve changed that. It’s just my opinion, John, that’s all.
MR. STROUGH-And you might be right, but I want to give it a shot.
MR. RYAN-Could I say one thing? If I had a zone, okay, Suburban Residential isn’t a very good
zone there. I have two children.
MS. RADNER-This Board can’t change the zone anyway. So you’re wasting your time on that.
There’s nothing they can do about changing the zone.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. RYAN-That’s what I’m saying. They’re changing the zone so that’s really, if they ever get this
thing, it’s going to help me.
MR. RINGER-George, I agree with a lot of what you’re doing, it’s just that I’d like to do it right and
not have to have you come back and tell us, you know, this guy’s against me or that person or this
zone’s against me. That’s all.
MR. VOLLARO-Do we have to do a SEQRA on this?
MR. MAC EWAN-No, we don’t. It’s my mistake. We don’t. Okay. We have a public hearing
scheduled tonight. Does anyone want to speak on this application? Do we have any letters or
correspondence?
MRS. MOORE-No.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. Would someone like to introduce a motion? Would you like to take a
couple of minutes to pen yourself a resolution, or what?
MR. STROUGH-Yes, thank you.
MR. MAC EWAN-We’ll take a five minute break. Okay. I’ll call the meeting back to order.
MOTION TO APPROVE MODIFICATION TO SITE PLAN NO. 17-88 GEORGE
RYAN, Introduced by John Strough who moved for its adoption, seconded by Catherine
LaBombard:
WHEREAS, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of a modification to Site Plan No. 17-88, George
Ryan. Applicant proposes to modify approved site plan for a commercial farm facility (Class C & D
Farm, SP 17-88). The applicant intends to rebuild the farm stand that was destroyed by fire and
requests approval for a 5,500 sq. ft. constructed greenhouse with a loading dock. The applicant also
seeks approval for a 5,500 sq. ft. greenhouse for future placement on the site. Tax Map No. 27-1-
28.1. Cross Reference: SP 35-93, SP 41-93, and;
WHEREAS, the application was received on 12/26/00; and
WHEREAS, the above is supported with the following documentation and inclusive of all newly
received information, not included in this listing as of 01/22/01;
1. 1/23/01 Staff Notes
1/16/01 Notice of Public Hearing
1/3/01 Meeting Notice
11/3/00 G. Ryan from C. Brown (incl. Stop Work Order dated 11/3/00
and, Note to file dated 12/20/00
WHEREAS, public hearing was held on 1/23/01 concerning the above project; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the Site Plan
requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code of the
Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered
and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if application is a
modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or significantly different
environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that
The application is approved and is subject to the following conditions:
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1. 5,500 square foot greenhouse with loading dock as depicted on plans
submitted by the applicant’s site plan [this does not include approval for the
greenhouse proposed for future expansion), and
2. As part of the Site Plan Modification to Site Plan No. 17-88 for George Ryan,
that by April 30, 2001 Mr. Ryan will return to the Planning Board with a
master plan for the site. This site plan will depict such things as current and
proposed building locations, current and proposed structure uses, the
landscaping will show, among other things, but not limited to, trees planted
along the applicant’s border with Route 149, and the use of greenery to hide
the propane tank, and
3. This site plan will also show the clean up of the site, and
4. The site plan will show the closing of the 18 foot driveway, and
5. The fencing will be continued, so that is no longer demarcates the driveway.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of January, 2001 by the following vote:
MR. MAC EWAN-Is that it? Any discussion?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, there is. The only thing that we’re approving, or we’re going to be considering
for approval here, on that motion is the building of this greenhouse?
MR. STROUGH-Yes, with this condition, that it be returned by April 30.
th
MR. VOLLARO-Right, with a complete site plan that depicts everything else on this site clearly? Is
that what you’re saying?
MR. MAC EWAN-He was pretty clear on that.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-Any other discussion? What happens if he doesn’t come back?
MR. STROUGH-Well, the other projects that he wants to do, and his future buildings, are going to
be pretty limited to what he has now.
MR. RYAN-He said he was going to help me. I’m going to come back and get his free expertise.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. Do we have a second?
MRS. LA BOMBARD-I’ll second it.
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer, Mr. MacEwan
MR. MAC EWAN-You’re all set.
MR. RYAN-Thank you.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. Good luck. Next item. Resolution.
RESOLUTION:
PETITION FOR CHANGE OF ZONE PZ 1-2001 HAYES & HAYES, LLC
RESOLUTION FOR REQUEST FOR LEAD AGENCY STATUS JANUARY 29 –
TH
JOINT TOWN BOARD/PLANNING BD. MTG.
MR. MAC EWAN-All this resolution is requesting is that the Planning Board be lead agency for this
review. Does someone want to move it?
MOTION THAT THE PLANNING BOARD REQUESTS LEAD AGENCY STATUS
FOR PETITION FOR CHANGE OF ZONE PZ1-2001 HAYES & HAYES, LLC,
Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Larry Ringer:
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has forwarded to the Planning Board of
the Town of Queensbury an application for rezoning for Hayes & Hayes, LLC for recommendation
in accordance with Town Zoning Ordinance Ss 179-94, and
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WHEREAS, the Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury has determined to begin an
environmental review process under the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA) for a
series of actions that may include change of zone for Hayes & Hayes, LLC, and
WHEREAS, such actions may include the rezoning of three parcels, 98.-2-1, 98-3-1 and 98-3-5,
consisting of 4.3 +/- acres from SFR-10 to either CR-15 or HC-1A for project development plans
for a 90 room hotel of approximately 39,000 square feet, and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury has identified the change of zone to be
an Unlisted action for the purposes of SEQRA review pursuant to 6 NYCRR 627.4, and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board is the agency most directly responsible for approving the actions
because of its responsibility for approving the land uses for the property,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby indicates its desire to be
Lead Agency for SEQRA review of this action and authorizes and directs the Department of
Community Development to notify any other potentially involved agencies of such intent.
Duly adopted this 23 day of January, 2001 by the following vote:
rd
AYES: Mr. Ringer, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Vollaro,
Mr. MacEwan
NOES: NONE
MR. MAC EWAN-Next item.
OTHER:
SEE MEMO DATED 1/10/01 FROM PLANNING BOARD TO SUPERVISOR
REGARDING FAITH BIBLE CHURCH PROPERTY
MR. MAC EWAN-If everyone’s read the memo, everyone comfortable with the memo?
MR. STROUGH-No.
MR. MAC EWAN-What aren’t you comfortable with?
MR. STROUGH-I did draft it, and when I drafted it, Chris, or somebody in the Planning
Department, squeezed it down to this. Now, this is fine, but as I had e-mailed back to Chris, I said,
in my opinion, this works, with the exception that it doesn’t provide a vehicle for public input.
That’s the only thing it doesn’t. I mean, no particular Department is now, with this plan, is going to
be responsible for making sure that the meetings are advertised and open for public input. I
suggested a committee. The committee I suggested, Chris, in return, said, well, you might be
stepping on some toes with the Rec Department, with this formation of a committee. So, I said,
well, I could do a couple of things. I could talk to some of the committee people and see if they
have any ideas on where they’d like to go with this, but when I got to that point, I got the feeling
from the Chairman that, before I go in these directions, maybe we should talk about this as a Board,
before I go on any further, and so that’s where we are. The problem is, to repeat myself, is the plan
is good, and the idea and the intent is there, but the only part of that is that nothing in this would
provide for the advertising to the public and to obtain their input. I don’t know how to go about
doing that, and if you want me to, I’ll continue working on that, but I put a stop on it. I think we’re
headed in the right direction. We’re 90% there. The only part that we don’t have is that this doesn’t
lend itself to advertising public input.
MR. MAC EWAN-A couple of schools of thought was that I was of the understanding when this
was all left, and we started this whole process, of making the Town Board, the Highway Department,
and the Recreation Commission aware of what these concerns were, not only from the preservation
of the open space, but the problems, potentially, with the two roads that were being linked by an
undedicated road, and also with the historical aspect of the cemetery, I don’t remember anywhere in
that equation, that there was going to be a whole public comment period about this sort of thing.
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MR. STROUGH-If you remember, Pliney Tucker and I had that discussion that, and I said that,
Pliney, I think something can be worked out where we could all sit down together, and the public as
well, and Pliney seemed to be happy with that, and I thought the Board kind of felt that way, too.
Maybe I misread the Board. So, if I did.
MR. MAC EWAN-I think our mission here is to let other Boards know of what was the outcome of
that review, and we’re doing that. That’s our job, to let them know. I mean, is it this Board’s job to
start pulling all these entities together and having a big group meeting with a big public hearing, no,
that’s not our job to do that. That’s going to be up to the Town Board to take the lead in it. That’s
their job to do that.
MR. STROUGH-Well, see, that’s what my first one was addressing the Town Board, to give
permission for the Planning Board to act as kind of like a lead agency.
MR. MAC EWAN-Yes, but that’s not our role to do that, either.
MR. STROUGH-Well, right, but you see what I’m saying is that, where are you going to get public
input with this plan?
MR. MAC EWAN-At the point when the Town starts to look at creating the Conservancy group or
the local Land Conservation group that’s going to oversee this parcel of land. That’s where the
public input’s going to come in.
MR. STROUGH-Well, I’d like to be assured of that.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, that’s a legal process they have to go through. They’re not going to do it,
you know, behind closed doors. I think what we are doing as a Board is our obligation, is what we’re
doing. I mean, I don’t think it’s short of our obligation, and I don’t think it’s just meeting our
obligation. I think we’re doing exactly what our roles are.
MRS. RYBA-Laura just triggered a thought, which is that when the Town Board has to do the
approval for accepting of any property, I believe they have a public hearing at that point. So there is
public, there is the availability for public input at that time.
MR. STROUGH-But this goes beyond that. After you get approval of the property, and the only
issue that’s being addressed at that meeting is that we approve the taking of this property. How
we’re going to develop it, and in what way we’re going to develop it, I’m just saying the public should
be part of it.
MRS. MOORE-That could possibly be a discovery, at that public meeting.
MR. MAC EWAN-I mean, there’s so many mechanisms in play, down the road, if and when
anything like that ever starts to come to fruition, it’s going to kick all these things in, John.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. Well, this is a good starting point. So I can go along with it, and you’re
right. I’ll create some other ways, if it’s not working out, that public input’s not getting in.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, I mean, just maybe to rest your mind and make yourself at ease here, should
the Town decide to accept this land, there’s one public hearing. Should the Town decide, well, that’s
a good place to put a softball fields, or, you know, tracks, or an ice skating rink, there’s another
public hearing that’s going to kick in. Just like they did when they developed the Hudson River park.
There’s mechanisms that are going to kick in that are going to give people ample opportunity to put
their input in.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. Fine.
MR. VOLLARO-See, I just looked at this as a memo of understanding. Basically, that’s what I
looked at it as. When I read it, that’s how I read it.
MR. MAC EWAN-I look at it as being a red flag. We’re making them aware of some situations
surrounding this particular application, and this is our way of letting them know we identified these
issues. Take notice.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. Fine. That’s fine with me. I think it’s the right direction.
MR. MAC EWAN-Anything else? Okay. Would someone make a motion that we’ll adopt that
memo and ask it to be forwarded to the Town Board.
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MOTION THAT WE FORWARD THE MEMO DATED JANUARY 10, 2001 FROM THE
PLANNING BOARD TO THE TOWN BOARD REGARDING THE FAITH BIBLE
CHURCH PROPERTY, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Larry Ringer:
Duly adopted this 23 day of January, 2001 by the following vote:
rd
AYES: Mr. Ringer, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Vollaro,
Mr. MacEwan
NOES NONE
MR. MAC EWAN-Just if we could quickly just back up to the Hayes and Hayes application. There
was a memo put in from Counsel today, in your packets, dated today’s date. Just be sure that you
read that carefully, so that you know what we’re up against, what our role is going to be in this joint
public hearing next Monday night.
MR. VOLLARO-Apparently, we’re just data gathering on that.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s correct. I just want everyone to just be aware of what our roles are going
to be. That’s all. That meeting’s at seven.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Now when is this?
MR. MAC EWAN-Next Monday night. Just take it over the weekend and read it.
MR. STROUGH-Just so we know what we’re doing on Monday, this is just going to be a public
input session?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. We’re taking on data.
MR. MAC EWAN-We’re not going to take any action Monday night.
MR. STROUGH-We’ll reserve any comments and feelings on that to another time? It’s just going to
be a public input, like The Great Escape meeting?
MR. MAC EWAN-Correct.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Here at seven o’clock?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MRS. RYBA-Before you leave, I do have a memorandum with, it’s for petition for change of zone in
general, but what I’ve done is put together a flow chart, so it’ll help you understand, because now
that the Planning Board is taking the SEQRA Lead Agency Status, tried to make it as simple as I
could, but if you have suggestions for changes, let me know. This will go to the Town Board, as
well. So that’s just a reminder, but for tonight, we were going to go through the Policies and
Procedures section of this Policies and Procedures manual. What I did was I took all of the
comments that I received from different Board members, as well as Town Counsel, marked up the
document, and then in capital, bold type, I did put some questions where I didn’t see agreement, or
where people had specific questions. So there aren’t that many. I see probably four questions. So if
we could go through those, what could happen is next time I can have all the change made, and you
can actually adopt it and have it for your use. So, if you want to proceed. Did everyone bring their
copy with them from the last Planning Board workshop? No? Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-Sorry.
MRS. RYBA-Page One. Is everyone ready to start? Under Policies and Procedures, Ethics, the
question was, Should sections A and B be deleted, since Ethics Law covers Section A, and Section B
is not practical, due to committee activity, Town Board meetings, and pre-application discussions?
Basically, Section A notes Avoidance of Conflicts of Interest, bias and prejudice. The B part is a
discussion about exparte communication, or contact with applicants or applicant representatives. So
the question, and I don’t remember who exactly asked these questions. As I said, I just tried to
incorporate them into the document, so that they would be covered, and so I don’t know if any of
you have any thoughts, if it should be left as is, or if you want to delete the section and just make a
reference to Town Code, which is what you had done, I think, in the by-laws part of this manual.
This appears to be very much similar, because I know that Town Counsel did review it, or legal
counsel did review this Section and any comments would have been incorporated.
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MR. MAC EWAN-Is everyone comfortable with it?
MR. RINGER-I marked “throw it out”. I didn’t see any use for it, and if we didn’t throw it out, I
had a couple of comments on it, if we don’t throw it out.
MR. MAC EWAN-What’s everybody else’s feeling on it?
MR. STROUGH-My feeling is, I left it home.
MRS. RYBA-Well, I have one extra copy.
MR. MAC EWAN-I mean, is everyone, I thought that we had left that out because what she’s got
stricken out there.
MRS. RYBA-Right. The strike out is, are deletions, and then where there’s bold, those are the
additions, as per earlier discussions, but this is the second go around, so to speak. So, there were still
some questions. As I said, what everyone did, which was great, everyone put together comments in
writing, and you gave them to me, but where there was disagreement with the comments or
questions with the comments, I wanted to make sure we went through those one final time, to get
consensus before this, and so I can finalize this for you for a resolution.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, what’s everybody’s consensus here? Do they want that in? Do they want
that out?
MR. RINGER-Mine was throw it out.
MR. MAC EWAN-One out.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Throw it out.
MR. MAC EWAN-Two out.
MR. STROUGH-I’ll trust Larry.
MR. MAC EWAN-Three out. I’ll be the fourth. We’ll throw it out.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-Next.
MRS. RYBA-All right, and I’m just going to cover the highlights here. Page Two, under
Establishment of Agenda, there was a question, Should there be notice that late submission could be
accommodated through special meetings?
MR. MAC EWAN-Yes, take that out.
MRS. RYBA-Everyone in agreement?
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Yes.
MR. STROUGH-Yes.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. The next question is under Site Visits. Should site visits be noticed, so that the
Planning Board can feel free to discuss the applications?
MR. MAC EWAN-They are noticed.
MR. RINGER-I put a question mark because I thought they were noticed, also.
MRS. RYBA-All right.
MR. VOLLARO-Are they noticed?
MR. MAC EWAN-They are publicly noticed. They are noticed in the paper. Our protocol is that
we are not to discuss the application, which is a difficult thing to do. We’re not to discuss it like with
an applicant or whatever, for someone on the site, or an agent of the applicant.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MRS. RYBA-Okay. So my understanding is it’s, the actual site visits are noticed. However, the
policy is as written here, which is site visits done by Planning Board members as a group should be
limited to touring the sites without substantive discussion of the application?
MR. VOLLARO-That’s correct.
MR. MAC EWAN-Excellent, as is.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s what we actually do.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. Great. This is fairly minor, but under Page Three, under Order of Business,
there were a number of questions about if the business of the meeting should be conducted as
follows, and actually noting all of those items. People had different thoughts on what should be
kept, or what should be outlined, I should say. You don’t, at this point, formally, or maybe you do
and I’m not aware of it, but call a roll call and say, yes, we have a quorum. You don’t say that at the
beginning of the meeting.
MR. MAC EWAN-I’ve never seen that done.
MRS. RYBA-Yes, okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-I don’t know whether it’s right or wrong not to do or do it, but it’s pretty much a
pretty simple thing. You look up and down the table, you better have four.
MRS. RYBA-Right. At this point, I think.
MR. MAC EWAN-I mean, what you’ve got stricken out there is fine by me. Because we do, we
jump right into approval of minutes. We do old business, new business, and anything added to the
plate.
MRS. RYBA-All right. So we’ll keep that in, then.
MR. RINGER-The only one that I put that had, before adjournment, you might want to add election
of officers, if appropriate, just before adjournment, you know, just a technical thing, but most of
your bylaws and stuff have that.
MRS. RYBA-Right, that’s in an annual meeting.
MR. MAC EWAN-Just put election of officers annually.
MR. RINGER-Or election of officers if necessary, or if appropriate. That would be the way we do it
at the fire company, election of officers if appropriate.
MR. MAC EWAN-Yes.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-We usually try to do that in our first meeting in November.
MR. RINGER-Yes, but if they kick you out before the end of the year, then we might have to do it
at another time, so appropriate might be better.
MRS. RYBA-Page Six, and actually it refers to the earlier Page Five, conduct of Planning Board
committees. Any committee may solicited by some citizens who are not members of the Planning
Board. The question was, is that section really needed and one of the items in the section is that the
Chairperson is a non-voting, ex-officio member of all Planning Board committees and the question
was, is that a burden on the Chairperson to actually lay that out as one of the duties?
MR. MAC EWAN-I’ve seen that before.
MR. RINGER-I put, yes, that it should be left in, and they should be an ex-officio member of every
committee, but it isn’t a burden because, you know, he doesn’t have to go to the meetings or
anything, but he should be a member of every committee.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right. As a member, you then get notified if there’s a meeting, then you decide
if you want to go or not.
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MR. RINGER-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-Fine. No problem.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. Do this at the end of the meeting and get it done quick, right? Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-No. It’s just this is a Board that works well together and we know what our
answers are.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. Page Eight, under Subdivisions, or types of applications, under Subdivisions, the
question was, should it be noted that final approvals are conditioned upon receipt of applicable local
County or State agency approvals?
MR. RINGER-What page are you on?
MRS. RYBA-Page Eight.
MR. RINGER-I have a question on Page Seven.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. Go ahead.
MR. MAC EWAN-Bob Vollaro’s back to Page Six.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Let’s do Six before we go to Seven.
MR. VOLLARO-Under Format, we’re striking out conclusions and recommendations? Staff notes
containing the following elements, project description, project analysis, areas of concern or
importance, and we struck out conclusions and recommendations, and inserted, I guess, comments,
suggestions, and considerations. Is that okay?
MR. MAC EWAN-I have no problem with that.
MR. RINGER-Yes.
MRS. RYBA-That’s what you had asked for last time.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay. All right. You’re on Page Seven, Larry?
MR. RINGER-Yes.
MR. MAC EWAN-What’s the problem there?
MR. RINGER-On consultant notes, it says, engineers or other consultants to the Town of
Queensbury shall provide in writing their analysis and projects according to (lost words) by Staff or
the Planning Board, and I sent it to Staff. Why, you know, we don’t want the consultants reporting
to us. Everything should be cleared through Staff. The last three, four words.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, sometimes, you know, there’ll be letters like that will go back and forth, like
for example Nace in addressing concerns, address them to either Chris Round, Marilyn, or Laura.
Other times, people respond directly to the Planning Board. So that’s not a real problem.
MR. RINGER-All right. The way I read that, they could come to us, or we could go to them, and I
think it should be cleared through Staff.
MRS. RYBA-Maybe by Staff, or as directed by the Planning Board.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s good. How’s that?
MR. RINGER-It was just those four words I had, you know.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. RINGER-That’s what you wanted us to do, is to read this over.
MRS. RYBA-Correct. That’s good.
MR. MAC EWAN-Page Eight?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MRS. RYBA-Page Eight. Under Subdivisions, should it be noted that final approvals are
conditioned upon receipt of applicable local, County or State agency approvals? To some degree,
you do that now, for example, with health requirements, for the subdivision, and that’s a condition,
and I’m trying to remember why this question was asked.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, I mean, there are subdivisions we, potentially, could have that would affect
the Adirondack Park, Warren County, DEC, Army Corps of Engineers.
MRS. RYBA-So it should be yes, then. Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-I’m thinking of one subdivision we did up on the mountain that we not only
affected the DEC, the APA, and I think the Army Corps was even involved. That was Gereau, was
that the name, on Tuthill?
MRS. RYBA-Right, and actually I think in the last few resolutions, that’s been put in there as a
condition. Okay. That was a while ago. That’s everything, everything I had.
MR. MAC EWAN-Page Nine, are we okay on that?
MRS. RYBA-Yes. Page Eleven, actually, there was a question under Planning Board or Planning
Staff duties. Staff shall modify application forms as necessary, and there was a question mark there,
if it’s really, whether or not it’s really needed, and as part of a Staff duty. Right now, the way Staff
acts is if an application form needs to be modified, it’s modified. It can be very much an
administrative thing, such as let’s make sure that most recent revision date is on every application, or
to the extent the recent applications have a notice about pre-application meetings, and here’s the
notes, and everyone has to initial those notes, the applicant or the applicant’s agent, and the Staff
members that are present, and that’s something that we do as we see changes maybe needed or, for
example, when the Zoning Ordinance is revised, if there are changes that are needed, you would
modify the application forms, but whether or not you want to keep that in there, it’s up to you.
MR. MAC EWAN-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-Marilyn, going back for a second, as a reference to the bylaws, under powers and
duties, we deleted all of powers and duties in the bylaws and said we would transfer those to policies
and procedures, and where has that been transferred?
MRS. RYBA-Okay. Let me just grab my.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s Page Five of the, if you go to Page Five of the bylaws, under powers and
duties, that’s all been stricken, with the understanding that it would be re-stated in policies and
procedures.
MRS. RYBA-Let’s see. I didn’t have that in my notes from the last Planning Board meeting.
MR. VOLLARO-I had ask the question, and I have a note here that said, it says, to myself, revisit the
reasons for deletion, and when I made that comment, we said we would transfer these two things to
the policies and procedures, because they’re totally deleted.
MRS. RYBA-Right, and my understanding that they were totally deleted because Board members,
and excuse me, it was at the last Planning Board workshop, not the last Planning Board meeting, but
that it was inherent in what the Board is expected to do, as iterated in Town law and in the fee, Town
Code. So that it wasn’t really needed in this manual. That’s, and as I said, I didn’t have that as part
of the notes.
MR. VOLLARO-I thought I distinctly remember that we were going to transfer this to policies and
procedures.
MRS. RYBA-Let me read it, so everybody knows what we’re talking about. Under Powers and
Duties, which was deleted, “Pursuant to the resolution passed by the Town Board, the Town of
Queensbury Planning Board shall have and be vested with all the powers, authority and
responsibilities provided for by law, and as necessary by resolution of the Town Board. 2. All
members of the Planning Board are expected to review all submissions on the agenda and make a site
visit prior to the meeting.” And that was deleted, and what Mr. Vollaro is saying is he thought that
that was going to be incorporated under policies and procedures.
MR. VOLLARO-I thought that was the reason for deleting it here, and I thought I remembered
discussions during that last meeting, I guess it was the ninth.
MRS. RYBA-Yes, of January.
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MR. VOLLARO-That that’s why that was deleted, and we were going to transfer that over. I think I
remember us saying that, at the meeting of the ninth.
MRS. RYBA-I don’t know, what’s everyone else’s recollection that was there? Let’s see, who was
there. There was Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ringer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, and Mr.
Vollaro.
MR. STROUGH-I remember something to the effect of what Bob said, is that it was covered in
policies, but do you see it in policies?
MR. VOLLARO-No, it’s not in policies and procedures now, and I think it should be, because it was
deleted from the bylaws, and when we discussed deleting that, we said we would transfer it to policies
and procedures.
MR. MAC EWAN-It should be in one or the other.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. All right. So, then we’ll put it in to the policies and procedures.
MR. MAC EWAN-I’m thinking about this now, and the reason, now my memory is coming back,
that there’s one line in here about having, making site visits and reviewing applications, then it was
redundant because it was said again in the same thing under policies and procedures.
MR. VOLLARO-Where?
MR. MAC EWAN-Right here.
MR. RINGER-We took it out of policies and procedures.
MR. VOLLARO-We took it out of there.
MR. RINGER-Just tonight. Why don’t you just make Page One under Policies and Procedures,
where you took out One A and One B, just insert Powers and Duties.
MR. MAC EWAN-No, we didn’t take it out of Policies and Procedures tonight.
MR. RINGER-No, we didn’t have it in Policies and Procedures, but on the first page of Policies and
Procedures, we took out that whole Ethics thing, and we could just make One Policies and
Procedures, and copy it from the bylaws.
MR. MAC EWAN-Powers and Duties.
MRS. RYBA-Powers and Duties.
MR. MAC EWAN-Well, it’s only going to be one line, because the second line under Powers and
Duties is already covered under our site visits section, under Article IV.
MR. VOLLARO-What does it say in Four?
MR. MAC EWAN-Site visits by all Planning Board members should be conducted prior to the
meeting. Site visits to be done by Planning Board members as a group, and should be limited to
touring the site without substantive discussion of the applications.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Good.
MR. MAC EWAN-Which we have there. So we have one other line that’s not there, and I thought
that was under here somewhere, too, or something very similar to it.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I looked for it and didn’t see it.
MR. MAC EWAN-Maybe you can just take that, okay. I think the redundancy that we had with that
is if you look at that first sentence under Powers and Duties is have and be vested with all the
powers, authorities and responsibilities provided for by law, and as necessary by resolution of the
Town Board, but if you look under Membership and Terms of the Organization, which is Two A, it
says, the membership and terms of office shall be specified in a resolution or any amendments made
thereto establishing the Planning Board as set forth by Town Law. That’s pretty much meaning the
same thing.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. VOLLARO-I think all you’ve got to do is pick up the second one under Powers and Duties and
you’ve got it.
MR. MAC EWAN-Both of these things here, okay, are covered elsewhere, either here in the first
section, which related to that. It’s already there, and the second one here is in this one.
MR. VOLLARO-Is in Policies and Procedures?
MR. MAC EWAN-Right, I just read it to you. The site visits, where’s the site visits. Have I got the
right one?
MR. VOLLARO-It’s in there, but it’s not in here, Craig.
MRS. RYBA-It says site visits by all Planning Board members should be conducted prior to the
meeting. Site visits done by Planning Board members as a group should be limited to touring the
sites without substantive discussion of the applications.
MR. VOLLARO-This is in Policies and Procedures?
MRS. RYBA-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-What page is that on?
MRS. RYBA-Two.
MR. MAC EWAN-We’re covered. So that Powers and Duties section, take the whole thing out.
MRS. RYBA-All right. So what I’ll do, for next time, is I’ll format this, so that, I had it in two
different sections.
MR. RINGER-I had one more thing.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. Go ahead.
MR. RINGER-Page Eleven.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. RINGER-The second one down, Staff shall participate in pre-application meetings with the
applicants. The Planning Board Chairman or other Planning Board members should attend when
deemed necessary by the Community Development Director. We took a vote here about a year or
so ago that we would not meet either individually or as a group with the applicants, outside of a
meeting.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. RINGER-Outside of a formal meeting.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. RINGER-So I don’t know. I’m not saying that shouldn’t be in there. I’m only telling you that,
a year ago we took a vote not to do that. We may want to re-visit it.
MR. MAC EWAN-No, I think it’s good policy. Is that referencing like pre-application meetings,
agenda meetings?
MRS. RYBA-Yes, pre-application meetings.
MR. MAC EWAN-With the applicant. I would prefer no Planning Board member attend those.
MRS. RYBA-Okay.
MR. MAC EWAN-That’s my preference.
MR. RINGER-I mean, we took a vote on it, last year, to that effect.
MR. MAC EWAN-How does everyone else feel about that? I don’t think it’s appropriate.
MR. VOLLARO-That we be at a meeting where the applicant is present?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 01/23/01)
MR. MAC EWAN-Right, and what stemmed that whole thing was.
MR. RINGER-The Great Escape.
MR. MAC EWAN-The Great Escape.
MRS. RYBA-Okay. So I’ll delete that, then. All right. One of the things that I wanted to note is
that, previously, I had made reference to a table of contents. I’ve rethought that a bit, and I don’t
think I would like to put a table of contents in, only because it refers to application forms, review
forms, information about different committees. That way if there are any changes made, you don’t
have to change the whole document. It’s not really necessary. So what I can do is, as I said, re-
format this into one document. I had two sections, just because I knew we had divided it up for
review and I was trying to make it easier for you, but do that, and get a resolution prepared, and just
check with Town Counsel to make sure everything’s okay, and have it ready for your meeting next
month.
MR. MAC EWAN-How does our agenda look for next month? A lot of applications coming in?
MRS. RYBA-Yes.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Busy.
MR. MAC EWAN-Three meetings? We’ll shoot for a workshop, maybe, in March. Okay. Final
note, February 17, site visits.
th
MRS. LA BOMBARD-I won’t be there the 17. I have my daughter’s ski race.
th
MR. MAC EWAN-Will you just note on your calendar to check with Matt Steves, to confirm that
that will be taken care of, and our meetings for February are going to be the 20 and the 27 are
thth
regular meetings, with an optional meeting possibly the 22. Our attorney is duly noted.
nd
MS. RADNER-20, 22, 27.
MR. MAC EWAN-20, 22, 27.
MRS. LA BOMBARD-Should I mark 22 down? Do you really think we’re going to be doing it the
22?
nd
MR. MAC EWAN-Pencil it in. You might have a bonus and not have any. Let the record show that
with our attorney here tonight we would have gotten done at 8:59.
MS. RADNER-But for Mr.
MR. MAC EWAN-No, I had 8:58 was our last resolution prior to the workshop. All right. Is that it?
Any other business? Done.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Craig MacEwan, Chairman
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