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1988-10-03 SP i SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING OCTOBER 3, 1988 4:00 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT STEPHEN B OR GOS-S UPER VISOR MARIL YN POTENZA-COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI-COUNCILMAN BETT� MONAHAN-COUNCILMAN BOARD MEMBER ABSENT cr-c�RC:r KHR OSAKA-COUNCII ALAN TOWN COUNSEL PA UL D USEK PRESS: G.F. Post Star, WRZA, WWSC PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE_ LED BY COUNCILMAN POTENZA Town Clerk Dougher• presented to Town Board the tentative Budget for 1989. Noted that she received the tentative budget on Friday the 30th of September, from Supervisor Borgos. RESOLUTION TO SET PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW ESTABLISHING PROCEDURES AND SUBSTANTIVE LAW FOR THE REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF SITE PLAN, SUBDIVISION, PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT, AND BUILDING PERMIT APPLICATIONS, SUBMITTED AND FILED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF ZONING ORDINANCE NO. 58 OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBUR Y RESOLUTION NO. 417, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Ronaid h9ontesi. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of establishing procedures and substantive guidelines for the review and approval of those applications of site plan, planned unit development, subdivision except and not to include those subdivision applications stayed by the moratorium, and building and permit approvals thai were submitted prior to the effective date of the new, amended, and revised zoning ordinance and subdivision regulations, adopted by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, the Town Board recognizes a need to adopt such local law due to considerations of fairness and expediency, and WHEREAS, the proposed local low has been prepared, a copy of which is annexed hereto, and WHEREAS, the proposed local law is worthy of consideration for legislative action, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOL VEU, that a public hearing be held concerning the proposed'adoption of said local law and that said public hearing be held at 4:00 p.m. in the meeting room of the Town of Queensbury Office Building, Bay at Haviland Road, in the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, on the 17th day of October, 1988, at which time all persons interested in the subject thereof will be heard, and BE IT.FURTHER, RESOL VED, that the Town Clerk be hereby directed and authorized to publish and provide notice of said public hearing as may be required by law. Duly adopted by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None I Absent: Mr. Kurosaka WORKSHOP - TOWN BOARD, EARL TOWN, AND ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN PARTNERSHIP REGARDING FINDINGS STATEMENT S ., COUNSEL D USEK-I have reviewed the findings statement that the applicant has presented to the Board for their review. A few remarks in connection with these to perhaps assist the " Board in their review of this matter. Probably the first thing I should just preface my remarks by indicating that the findings statement once adopted by the Board basically completes the SEQRA process, although there will be a resolution that /follows this actual findings statement whereby the Board will adopt that. The secondary step after that would be the actual creation of the PUD by resolution. Although we have received the proposed resolution to that I have not y6t reviewed that, that part of it. With respect to the findings statement, the first comment I would like to make, as I am sure all the Board members are aware of, that this is quite a lengthy document. Much longer in fact than the one that was submitted by Hiland. Basically in my opinion, the reason for its length is that it covers a great deal of information in detail. Which as a lawyer, I guess, when ever I see that much detail it starts to concern me because now we have to make sure that detail is consistent, all items are consistent with the Board's understanding and in fact consistent with the statements that were provided to � the Board, the �nyy►ronmental Impact Statements that were previously provided. First of all, just then the e6oments that I have with reference to the findings statement. Page #11, just a very minor comment, there is an asterisk at the end of nature trail on that Page, and I am unable to determine what that asterisk relates to. It usually relates to, an asterisk usually means footnote, yet I don't see one. On page 2, they refer to 63 acres, at the very top of the page, that is referring to a Public Natural Preserve. The question mark that l have is, they refer to also 32, 22 acre parcels as you go down the page, is where are these acres located. They haven't been identified to a specific location by the developer. Page 3, item F. once again, it would be the some comment. They refer to 5 to 15 acre concentration area on site, and yet there is no designated location to that. On page 3 and page 4, with the establishment of Environmental Conservation Trust Fund. I have some concerns here as for as where the money may be used, who pays the administrative expenses, who decides how it will be spent, or if this is going to be subject to some sort of a later agreement or how this is going to be ultimately resolved and used. With respect to, on the next page and jump to page 9, on page 9 at the very end of the first paragraph it appears on that page, they refer to article 8 of the ECL and 6 N YCRR Part 617, and my recommendation to this -egard, and it is a very minor recommendation, but I believe just to be technically consistent with statue, we should add the words, and the requirements of 8-0109 ECL have been met. In other words, indicating that the statue `requirements have been met, and also that the requirements of Part 617 of the Environmental Conservation Law, Regulatiotns have been met. This is only because the statue just puts it in those words and I felt that we should probably add that at that point. From page 10 going backwards, an overall observation that I made, that in paragraph 6, they refer to facts and conclusions set forth in the Environmental Impact Statement which were relied upon by the Town Board and then they go on to address paragraphs A and B, and then they start with paragraph 7, 8, 9. It appears to be that perhaps that 7,8,9, the rest of the paragraphs actually are all part Of this facts and conclusions. Perhaps just from an organizational stand point, the facts and conclusions referred to in paragraph 6 should continue on with all of the items that are designated in separate paragraphs. Perhaps they could be relettered, in alphabetical order so that it is clear that ail of those paragraphs that follow after this point relate to paragraph 6. On page 12 there is another asterisk again in paragraph C, once again with no, it doesn't appear to relate to a footnote of any kind, I didn't know if that was missing or not from the document. With respect to page 13, we refer to Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, I think we should refer to a Zoning Ordinance number, which Darleen will be able to get for us I'm sure, but she probably doesn't know off the top of her head. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Which Ordinance are you referring to? COUNSEL DU.SEK-The old Ordinance. TOWN CLERK DO U GHER-Number 57. (Upon further investigation, it is Zoning Ordinance number 53) COUNSEL OUSEK-Just so that it is clear as to what Zoning Ordinance we are referring to. Page 14, in this page, the fourth paragraph down where it starts, with the exception of one Planned Unit Development, no other development offers a full range... 1 would recommend that that paragraph be stricken, as I would recommend that the other comments, one paragraph or so down, saying unlike many current projects which have received Town approval and which undoubtedly have had major impacts on roads, that part of it be stricken because I think it's referring to other developments that may or may not exist in Town and I don't think they are relevant to this document. Page 15, at the middle of the page, they referring total annual housing starts for the Town of Queensbury, I think they should refer to a particular year, for the total annual housing starts, just so that its clarified as to what figures they are discussing in this document, or the Board is discussing actually. At the very bottom of 15, the last sentence on that page, the remaining parcels will be sold to contractors, I think that should read, may be sold to contractors as oppose to will. Only because will, will indicate something mandatory. COUNCILMAN MONA14AN-1 think if you read that another way, and it would just say, can i be sold to contractors and private owners, but what they are saying is when it is sold it is going to be with the standards and restrictive covenants. i wonder if we need to rephase again because I think Choy are referring that there definitely going to have restrictive covenants to no matter who they are going to. Maybe it could say, the remaining parcels will be sold to contractors and private owners, period, all parcels will have standards and restrictive covenants, just break it up. COUNSEL DUSEK-Just so that it is clear, I agree. Next comment would be on page 17, third paragraph down where it starts, unlike the majority of the projects within the Town of Queensbury, I would once again recommend that that be stricken. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The whole paragraph? i COUNSEL DUSEK-No just that line, unlike the majority of the projects within the Town olI Queensbury. Page 18, fourth paragraph down where it says all roads within the Quaker Ridg site will be constructed to Town of Queensbury highway specifications and at Earltown's expense and will be dedicated to and accepted by the Town of Queensbury. 1 would propose that it just say, will be offered for dedication to the Town of Queensbury because the acceptance would be up to the Board at that particular time. Page 20, the third complete paragraph, refers to Earltown's expense in creating bike lanes. The question I had there is to whether the Board would want to address who will maintain bike trails and sidewalks and things that they are referring to. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-They refer to the sidewalks specifically as being maintained by the Homeowners Association. Bike lanes, it depends if they are technically bike lanes separated from the roadway or actually paved shoulders, there is a distinction there we will have to make. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-1 think the distinction, Paul will verify that, on a bike lane if it is a separate paved road out of a roadway that is one thing. If it is an extended or paved shoulder, we really can't officially call it a walkway or bikeway because it is a paved shoulder. But it can be used safely as a bikeway. That pretty much is the way we have to work up on Aviation Road, 1 think. COUNSEL DUSEK-Perhaps at this point, that is an entire issue that perhaps the Board would want to address as to how they would want these bike trails created, whether separately or part of roadways, etc. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Bob did you shoulder the roadway? BOB -Yes. COUNSEL DUSEK-Page 24, the first paragraph after the top 3 and 4 at the top of the page, the first paragraph saying prior to construction the overall drainage plans, they indicated they will be submitted to the Town of Queensbury for their review, I would`propose that and approval be added. Likewise with the paragraph, about three or four paragraphs down, where it says prior to construction, Earltown will submit plans and designs to the Town of Queensbury for their review, i would put once again, and approval. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-After those cases, just grammatically, shouldn't it be instead of their review it should be it's review? COUNSEL DUSEK-Sure, I think you are right. Page 25, next to the last paragraph, once again, and approval and instead of their, it should be it, for review and approval. Page 26, second paragraph in where it talks about capital costs for construction of said water system, i would recommend that in some fashion the capital contribution charge that is due for the Water Plant be addressed. Page 27, the very top, they are referring to sewer district within creation, once again, the capital contribution charge for the sewer district be addressed in some fashion. Page 28, first complete paragraph where it refers to, Review Powers will be held by Earltown with the power to review, accept and reject overall building plans, location of buildings, color and landscaping. i would recommend that additional language be added to that paragraph reading something to the affect, but these review powers shall in no way take the place or, resert the powers of the Town Board, Planning Board, Zoning 'Board of Appeals, the Buildings' Department to review, approve, approve with the conditions, or deny any plans or buildings' under Local or State Law. The second paragraph from the bottom of page 28, it refers to • prohibition against. placement of television or radio antennas or satellite 'dishes. This is • matter as the Board I'm sure is familiar with, there is questionable legalities as for as restricting these. Perhaps the applicant should take a look at the Zoning' Ordinance that we have in effect that they could use provisions from that to revise that. Page 29, with reference to, item K, it refers to no significant impact to community services, the Board may wish to consider that statement in light of the fact, l think part of the Environmental Impact Report indicates traffic impacts, environmental as well as some other impacts. Just to make sure that that statement is consistent with what the Board would want it to read. Just a comment w, ` regards to a statement, about mid-page, where it says Earltown will assist the South Queensbury Volunteer Fire Company and Bay Ridge Rescue Squad in terms of providing land, equipment and/or buildings. It is a statement but I think that it doesn't really commit them to anything. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Would you like to see dollars in that? COUNSEL DUSEK-I think the problem with statement is more, it just says it will assist, in mutually satisfaction to both parties. When you make that kind of language, it would indicate that basically they are agreeing to agree at some future date, which is basically a legally unenforceable promise. It would have to be more than just dollars in that particular location, it would have to be firmer language to actual agree at this point perhaps. But that is the desire of the Board. Page 30, item L, it says Earltown will avoid the disruption of two historical sites, i think the sites should be specified. Page 31, they're referring to the use of chemicals in conjunction with fertilizers and pesticides, and they indicate that they will be making i submissions to the Town of Queensbury. A t this point I just had a question, i didn't know �. if the B-o&ld,wanted any rights to approve or review. There is none there, they are setforth there, it just says to be submitted to the Town of Queensbury. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Who would normally do this, the State of New York DEC? COUNSEL DUSEK-I would imagine so, although I am not entirely clear on that point. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If we are talking about residential property, no one governs it. COUNSEL DUSEK-Page 34, item P, it refers to other adverse impacts, indicating that the developers agreement that all mitigated measures set forth in the Impact Statement will be incorporated in the project. I think that this is a finding statement made once again by the Board and I notice that this happens in a couple of places where the developers are agreeing to do things, but ultimately this would be the statement of the Board, so it is really not binding them, the developer, and I would recommend that the developer would give us a letter of intent or an agreement that actually agrees to these things in writing. That is the end of comments. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 want to thank you for all that. I appreciate it. Certainly your expertise have shown up in this technical review. I'm sure that we caught a couple of these tonight, I even found a mistake or two. DENNIS MACELROY-What we are here to do, or what we are in the process of doing, is developing the findings statement for the Quaker Ridge project in compliance with the SEQRA requirements. If I could just have a minute and let me read from the SEQRA handbook as to what this findings statement is, it is a simple definition. A written document declaring the SEQRA requirements have been met and that the proposed action or selected alternative minimizes impacts to the maximum extent practicable. The findings statement must identify facts relied upon in the EIS. It provides agencies with an opportunity to balance benefits against negative effects including environmental, social, economic and other essential considerations. Involved agencies must make a statement of findings before they can approve, fund or proceed with an action. A few weeks ago I included in one of the items of correspondence that I sent was a two page commentary on the findings statement. I won't read that to you. But basically the findings statement support the decision that you as the Town Board make on this project. Now, I don't want to seem too naive but at this point, a decision is soon to come out on the project and again the finding statement reflects that decision. At this point, it could go either way, I don't want to presume to know the feelings of the Town Board but at some point you will vote on a findings statement which reflects your feelings, your decision that is made. The draft of the findings statement that you have in front of you was prepared and you can throw it out the window or we could go through this process and change it, modify it, have it reflect the decision that you are ultimately going to approve by a majority vote. That being said, I think that establishes what we are trying to do in shaping this findings statement to either say, yes we believe that the project that is proposed does what this findings statement and what part 617.9 requires, or no it doesn't, we don't really feel comfortable with what is presented to us, we've got volumes and volumes of information, but it is not quite satisfactory to us yet and we need to modify that. So you have those two alternatives even at this point. Again with that being said we can proceed and develop a findings statement which reflects a decision that the Town Board is ultimately going to make. Paul has made certainly a good start with a lot of the comments on the legal aspect. One of the things we want to, I think state, and not be afraid to state, is the fact, `— in a findings statement is meant to do this, is to be supported or support the facts that have been brought out in the EIS process. In this case there is an impact of some degree and in mitigation that is proposed either is acceptable and therefore you approve a findings or have findings that are approved document, approval document or the mitigation doesn't do what it needs to do to minimize the impact and therefore the findings would reflect a negative decision. l just wanted to make that statement for the record as to what we are really trying to do here and how we still have an option of either t way. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dennis, I have just one question for you, maybe if you are as new at this as the Town and its processes, who should be making out the findings statement? MR. MACELR0Y-The lead agency. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I gathered that in your comments that that was what you were leading to. If you wanted me to ask the question, I'm asking it. MR. MACELROY-No. It is not unusual that in this case, the project sponsor has submitted a draft. I don't take exception to that, 1 know it probably was the case with the previous PUD, with Hiland. Yes, we can take that document and use it to what ever good there is. It expedites the situation. Obviously the project sponsor has his opinion about the project I ' and wants to see it approved and therefore as Paul has suggested eliminating some of the editorial comments, that's what in fact has to be done at this point. We can take the document and use it to our own good, to the Town Board's own good and use it, if that in fact reflects the decision that you are ultimately going to make. It is a good start. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You don't take exception to it and it is a good start... MR. MACELROY-Right. But the answer to your question, the lead agency is responsible for that finding statement. Whoever actually does the ground work, just as the lead agency is responsible for the impact statements, while in fact the developer, the project sponsor does the work on it. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That is a good example to use. The lead agency hasn't in the past, and I don't think in too many communities, actually physically gone out and compiled this booklet. It has always been the developer and the lead agency has looked at it, just as we are here tonight. MR. MACELROY-That starts me off, basically defining what we are here to do. I came here wanting to hear what the Town Board's feelings are and actually we have comments as well concerning what we've reviewed, what we've had to look at here. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-An overview just in general without getting too specific, would you say that this findings statement the way it is presented now, I know we're going to work on it, covers the intent of that law you were looking at, thdt we are aware of the impact, we are aware of the mitigation. MR. MACELR0Y-I think i can be stronger in certain areas. SUPERVISOR B OR G(.)S-Will you help us when we get to those areas? MR. MA CEL R 0 Y-Yes. ED BARTHOLOMEW-1 would just like an overview as to the process that was involved and the drafting is that subsequent to the notice of completion, Earltown is here assuming that we are progressing one step at a time. Perhaps sideways at times but moving forward to take some of the issues that have been raised during the course of the public comment periods since March of 87 and incorporate that into the finding of facts. Upon the notice of completion, Environmental Design Partnership, who was the review engineer of this project and Hiland Park, indicated their intent and desire to be part of this process. They were not part of the findings and facts statement process with Hiland Park. We certainly welcome their comment input even not knowing that, Dennis, what you have to say here today. But we recognize their expertise. We met with the various Town Officials such as Mr. Naylor, Mr. Flaherty and tried to address some of the concerns that some of the Town Board members had as well. 1, as to echo what Dennis has stated, that this really is a starting document to review in time, to incorporate, to agree with or to disagree with and to start a new. But it is a starting point and certainly the items that Mr. Dusek has mentioned will be taking into account from our point along with the fact that the intentions in the back of the document do refer to those particular sections. It is our intent on the final draft to present a specific map in terms of where the historical sites are. Although in the, alternative in the final impact statement in the map, it is identified there. But that will be incorporated. The extent of the boundaries of the natural preserve of the 32 and 63 acres will be outlined as well as the conserved land. 1 think we are ready to go to work with you Mr. Supervisor. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Does anyone, let's knock it off at a paragraph at a time, start... Page 1, paragraph 1, any comments or questions? A lot of this is pretty much broiler plate type stuff. In paragraph number 1, which is really the second paragraph on page 1, I have a question about the 848-+ acres. Are we all comfortable once and for all that this is indeed the correct number of acres? I know we changed a couple of times. This is the X13 number, we area// satisfied? MR. BARTHOLOME IV-That is the number. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. Anything in item A or B? Could you explain the asterisk in the bottom line? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-So do we take the plus or minus out and leave it as 848? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No, plus or minus would be standard. MR. MACELROY-1 guess I have a comment about A, the 5131 acres in open space, including land off-site. I think that should be clarified to just indicate what is on-site, what is off-site, I think it could be somewhat misleading as to... i COUNCILMAN POTENZA-You want the 513 broken down? MR. MACELROY-Yes, because I think 376 acres of that is on-site and 130 of it is off-site. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is that correct? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think what we tried to do, and certainly Earltown has no pride of authorship with this document, we tried to make some general statements in A,B,and C and then it is broken down as to their location. For instance on page 3, paragraph G, is where we talk about the 102 acres of land gifts of lands, that breaks down the paragraphs where they are located. Certainly we can take Dennis's suggestion and break down. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Can we break down the 513? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Sure, we'll have the break down. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Dennis, should that that is on-site also be broken down to specify what is on-site, how much of the golf course, how much of the gardens, how much, i don't know if they are counting lawn as open space, that type of thing also? MR. MACELROY-If you want to get into that, yes. I Mound myself looking that up to see where those were and I think if you look on the alternative's map which gives the breakdown of what is open space... If you have to understand what the open space definition is in the Town of Queensbury too. It includes golf courses. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 don't know if it includes lawns and things like that or not, I don't know. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-No. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-One development I talked to was counting his lawns, and that is why I am asking, because he specifically said he was counting them. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-As Dennis has indicated in Section 6, 1 believe, of alternative section in the supplement, what we can do is to incorporate and refine that mnp that had the breakdown in that section. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I am correct in presuming that in this finding statement we're really summarizing what is in all those other documents, we are not going to try to read them in. All those other documents are incorporated here by reference, is that correct? MR. BARTHOLOME1V- Ycs. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The FEIS and everything proceeding? MR. MACELROY-Yes, I guess 1 found myself in times, a little confused as to whether there was a duplication of acreage and where that acreage was. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Especially on the Parklands and stuff... MR. MACELROY-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 agree with Dennis, I like to see everything pull together in one neat package, to be honest. MR. BAR THOLOMEW-One of the things that we have to remember, is that when you are breaking this and commenting on, there are certain categories of open space to define open i space under the ordinance and then breaking down and if you want to call it duplication, but also to break down and show, where the conserved land is, where the park acres are as well. So there is a ... of definition of generic open space and then a specific break down of the three park areas for instance. COUNCILMAN MONTESi-The 513 specifically refer to any and all open space, I mean our definition meaning golf courses, parklands to be deeded, nature preserves, it is a generic open space concept, is that it? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-On-site and off-site. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-On-site and off-site, that includes all of the mitigated land ,off Ridge Road? MR. MACELROY-That is correct. The charge under the alternative four does give you a good break down of golf course, parkland, buffer areas, conserved lands, preserved lands, that is what I assumed cnd with my quick addition came up with that portion of the 513 that was not included in 70 acres off-site and.... SUPERVISOR BORGOS--It would be better to have it summarized, right? MR. MACELROY-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Maybe that summary with a map following page 1, .would be super, because then you can refer back to that specific reference point as you go along. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In item B, do we know what the asterisk is for, is it just a typo or.. MR. MACELROY-At the end of the report there is an asterisk for the attachments. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, but that does go back to that one. I saw there was.. MR. MACELROY-It could be clearer but again it is a draft. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We are referring to the attachment that was given to us from Warren County, right? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Perhaps at the bottom of that page we could just show the asterisk again so that you can refer to the attachment or something. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-In the final document there will be a separate map, one for the avoidance of the historical site, secondly as per Dennis's suggestion here, we will incorporate this data in a second map, and a third map would show the nature preserve lands owned by Earltown on-site, off-site as well as the nature preserve including the County land, we can tie that in. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. The County land we hove letters about,' some people in the audience may not be familiar with that, but you are negotiating with Warren County at the moment to exchange a strip of Earltown Corporation lands, give that to the County in exchange for just essentially a lease on 63 acres of County land. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That is correct, perhaps I can get Mr. Mjaotvedt to explain that a little. BOB MJAATVEDT-Yes, Mr. Laakso is working with the County to go through that. There is a strip right at the end of the runway that we are offering to give up in exchange... SUPERVISOR BORG OS-You are offering fee title actually. MR. MJAATVEDT-That is correct to turn that over to the County so that the ILS system falls within that strip, which right now they are leasing from us. They would have the ownership of it at that time. In exchange we would have, obtain rights to the 63 acre parcel of land that is adjacent to the airport and then that would become part of the reserve. MR. MACELROY-That is contiguous to the 30... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is next to Big Cedar Swamp, then? MR. MACELROY-Yes it is. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-North, north-south runway lighting system, or what you just referred to, the ILS system, that property is being leased by the County from Earltown, and you are 3/. willing to give them free title to that in exchange for a lease on the 63 acres. Now that wouldn't have any barring on it or any regulations, this is just land that is contiguous to our 32 acres Cedar Swamp, which would make a perfect situation. There is still Cedars in there, bpparently. No infringement on the runway or any of that sort. MR. M JA A T VED T-Tha t is correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Bob, do you have any tentative date as for as those negotiations may be boncluded? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think I�arr.:help you, 1 am on the County Board of Supervisors on my days off here. We are in negotiations. That was just presented to us just a week or so ago. I would think very quickly, within a month. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Did the sediment seem to be favorable? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Very favorable. There are some discussion there about you providing fencing, also, for protection. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-The land that we talk about when we say strip of land, it is about seven to eight acres of land that is leased to the County right now that would be deeded over. The lease between FAA and the County and Earltown is about a dollar a year. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Would we be able to then have the 63 acres plus the 32 acres, that is nice, that is 95 acres totally of Cedar Swamp, will that land be open to the public, in the sense of natural trails? MR. MJA A T VED T-Yes sir. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-A portion of that may be open to the public, Mr. Montesi. It is not expected that the entire 95 preserved in essence would have a board walk, through 95 acres of it. But depending on where the biologist suggest that we insert the board walk area. MR. MACELROY-Would tine lease allow you to go into the 63 acres? MR. BARTHOLOMEW The lease would allow us to go into a portion of that. SUPERVISOR BORG05-Now we are on page 2, item C. Mrs. Monahan has asked who can use this. It probably should be addressed here and perhaps a statement should be included. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-it is the intent that the Public Parks will be open to the public. Maintained however by the Homeowner's Association. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay now, it says three recreational acres, you mean three recreational areas. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Three recreational areas. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-And all those areas will be open to the public? MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Those areas will be open to the public. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Will you prepare some more specific language to add in there? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 have a feeling Mr. Supervisor, we will be adding quite a bit... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We want to make sure who is going to accomplish it. The next we come here it is going to be all done. Item D, then is taken care of also? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That again, is that open to the public? MR. BAR THOL OMEW-That again will be open to the public. MR. MACELROY-Is that a mandated kind of acreage, significant acreage, establishment Of community gardens at the Ridge Road entrance? It is open to the public, its not the, in this condition the type of thing that people would go to? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think that the design of the way it is going to be, working with the Beautification Committee and Mr. Eddie, it will be a nice area for people to walk Dennis. We are not talking a significant acreage, probably in the neighborhood of three to four acres. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Could you probably may be specific there. I don't want anybody t to assume that you can go there and plant your tomatoes. It is not that kind of a community... mean really i t is a floral,garden. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is it similar to Yaddo or to the gardens at Duke University? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Your biased toward the south but.... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Specifically a floral, a floral garden if you will, not a community garden.where seniors would, not homestead but have a parcel of land that they could have a garden to grow fresh vegetables in. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think our definition sometimes in the Glens Falls Queensbury area of community gardens are something that was done during World War 11 and recently of planting your gardens, no. The two locations again will be more specified but it is located at the entrance way from Ridge Road into the Boulevard area and also a portion of the parklands up on County Line Road that is part of the parklands. Now, up there the Beautification Committee and Earltown Homeowner's Association are looking to put and do some innovative floral arrangements in terms of having flowers and shrubberies designed in, various shapes. To take into account, animals which is something that is done over in England and Scotland. So that will be more 'accessible then use, so that you would have some shrubberies that will be designed in the shape of a tiger or an elephant and things like this that will be open to the public. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Are these going to be large enough so that there will be footpaths through them, or just around the borders or what? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-No they will be large enough for foot traffic. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Item E. Mrs. Monahan has indicated that she believes these 25 should be a 50. Is that correct, do we know according to our new zoning rules? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think Mr. Dusek has got his, it is the old ordinance. COUNSEL DUSEK-The old zoning would apply and before we came tonight Mrs. Monahan met with me and it would appear to be a 50 foot buffer that is required. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think the way we were attempting to set that up was to have a bock portion of a person's property subject to our own internal convenance plus the other 25 feet. But we will specify.and reword the language to spell that out. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. Page 3, moving right along, done two pages in a hour. Item F. MR. MACELROY-The.location. I guess Paul asked that question anyhow, right, so... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Will this five to fifteen acre conservation area be specified? Maybe Mrs. Monahan has a more detailed question? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes it will. COUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-1 am not quite sure what this was supposed to do and if this is going to be open to the public or not? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-No, the conserved area, again, is designated on our alternative as an area that a portion of that now will be subject to our negotiations. Deeded, this is in the airport instrument landing location. MR. MACELROY-ls it that area that is deeded over to the County or is it the supplement within that? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-A portion of that conserved area. We are looking to, right now, if nothing were to happen, the conserved area is fifteen acres. If our negotiations with Warren County are successful, we are talking about retaining about five to seven acres of that. So that is why... MR. MACELROY-It wouldn't change as it exists out there today? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-No. MR. MAL.CELROY-But_ after negotiations, 88 acres, approximately, may be controlled by the County? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 still don't know what is going to be done with it. I mean is it _. _. just an area that is going to be left forever natural and just stays there,, nobody can use it or what? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-The conserved area will be just a natural area where there will be probably a location of a pump, Betty. No significant use. I think we've stated in our document that there will be no construction of any type other than perhaps a pump station. x COUNCILMAN MONTESi-Who will manage it? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That particular pwnping station there in the conserved area will be managed by, in that lecati,3n will be managed by the golf course. SUPERVI,5OR BORG :►S-Perhaps we should be clear there rather than presume it is going to be Homeowner's Association again. Lets put some language that the golf course will control . -,that. Okay, item G, any questions there? We've seen the specific locations for this 102 acre land gift, we've looked ut that before. MR. MACELROY-I guess this is an area where I was, maybe we don't need to do anything with this, but it was an area that I was confused because it was sort of a duplication. This was 32 acres that was talked about before that was part of the preserved area and now it is 32 acres which is part of a 102 acres of land gift. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-Mr. Bartholomew indicated before to us that it was further broken down here. That is where we are at. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes but is also part of that 95 acres preserve if they get the land from Warren County. So you know we got to make sure all this stuff... MR. MACELROY-It is a preserve on one hand and on the next page it is a land gift. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Well it is both. MR. MAGELROY-But, I guess not to be overly critical byt lets understand that It is not 32 other acres it is the some 32 acres. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Perhaps the more important question at this point is the Environmental Trust Fund and what that looks like. Do we have a draft of any charter or incorporation or f anything? Do you think who would control? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-There were two concepts that had been discussed. In what we have suggested in here in our draft is that the fund would be established by the Town of Queensbury. That the funds would be collected as part of the real estate transaction. Those funds then would be transmitted to the Town of Queensbury for deposit. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What I'm getting at, I think, is how are we going to be sure that this fund comes about? Are you proposing to establish this fund and have it set up and turn it over to the Town to be operated by the Town. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Yes, as part of our convenence, as part of our real estate transactions and so forth, that will be a mandated and required. Once the enclosing occurs and the funds transmit to the Town we would look to the Town to see fit to dispense those funds to where ever they would so desire. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is the point I am driving at. I think somehow you working with our attorney perhaps should set up this fund so it is an entity. Presuming all this thing gets voted on and its all favorable. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think maybe that is something that needs to be done before we vote on it so that we do feel... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right, 1'd like to see what the set up is going to be and rather then leaving it to the Town and it may or may not get done in the rush to do other things. `'- COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well `I'm just wondering if we can establish, to .... if we can establish a fund ourselves. We can except one as a gift once it has been established but can we establish a fund that nnlv puts a burden on certain areas of this Town? COUNSEL DUSEK-1 heli`eve we can but I will have to research that out a little more carefully with the applicant. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think if they establish then turn it over to us as a gift we could probably except it right but I when we establish it ourselves.... COUNCILMAN MONTESI In the initial negotiations for -this finding and I think each Board member had an opportunity to sit down with Earltown separately and at least talk about some points. My only concern on this, the establishment of a Conservation Trust Fund, was that I specifically asked Earltown to incorporate in the closing document, in other words when a parcel of land was sold or a house or whatever, that part of the closing documentation would be a check to the Town of Queensbury. Now, on a very general view, I assume that that we would know that all closings or all land sales, we are getting our fair share if you will or our commitment from Earltown or from the Homeowners. The thing that I assumed would happen would be that we would establish a budget line that would be a reserve fund for specifically whatever this Environmental Conservation Fund was going to do. Then along with that, I think you are right Steve, that Earltown should be saying, if you are going to do that, what we see in a trust fund is that the Town appoints members to this fund or to this committee to administer this fund. They make a recommendation to the Town that, we think you ought to buy the next 50 acres that is adjacent to this parcel and use the money that is in the fund. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Very early on in the negotiations this was talked about and I think it is a wonderful idea. My concern is that at that time it was talked about, that the money could be used to buy land near this project or anywhere. My concern is that it would be used anywhere and there won't be money left to take care of these particular acres that are talked about here being preserved by this fund. So there would have to be a set aside of some sort or a paragraph in the charter that would indicate that this be primary function. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-i guess what we are saying to you Earltown is that we ought to have a draft, be it how simple, of what you envision this fund doing specifically. I think the mechanics of it, basically we said make it part of the closing so the dollars there. We can therefore set up a t,ruff, a reserve fund in the Town so the dollars are here earning interest and we need to have your input in terms of how you want, how you would envision this being and if you want it specifically limited to that fund developing and maintaining the lands around Quaker Ridge. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Don't forget some of those they've already said are going to be maintained by the Homeowner's Association. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Yes, we got to separate that out. But I think the mechanics of it are important for this. We've given you a couple of good inputs and we could administer the money part of it, we can appoint people to that trust fund. If you will take their - recommendations... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Ron, I think we have to even look into that a little bit because there may be a thing if you have to start bonding people and so on and so forth. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-It could almost be like a Beautification Committee. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-It could be an Advisory Committee. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I'm not specifically saying that they would make a recommendation to the Town Board and we would then administer the reserve funds. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Earltown does not have any objection to the Town Board administering the funds. If you deem that you would like an advisory group to make recommendations or use existing groups, that is fine. Are other charter thoughts on that would be is that certainly funds would be used to assist operation of these existing areas. But certainly we want to give flexibility to the Town and to the advisory group as to what other land they would like to possibly acquire or utilize. We don't see this as being a restrictive gift. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I sort of see a group of citizens working on this establishing a budget, working on the maintenance and also the acquisition of other lands and coming to the Town with one lime on a budget, it has this fund in it. This group would come in with a budget and recommendation and i would think that then it would be dispensed through the Town channels. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is why I want to see something worked out that has a little biti more substances to this. Again I think it is a wonderful idea and is a great model for the future. Just a little bit more substance would help. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-is there a limitation, is there a problem if the Town takes on the fund and i say this sincerely because I know what it is to work in, you ought to know Ed, in municipal government. If the Town takes on that fund and administers the .dollars every time you want to have the grass cut or want to have something built, does that mean that we would have to go to specs, bid and raise the cost of operation or should that be... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Because they're going to maintain those community gardens, they are going to maintain those kind of areas. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well I am talking about... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-You're talking about the off-site plans. MR. MA CEL R O Y-Or the nature preserve. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The nature preserve, there has got to be some maintenance that goes on in there. Are you going to have to go because the Town is administering it are you going to hove to design specs, go to bid on every single time you want that kind of stuff down or is it going to be done through this trust fund that is ... governmental? I don't know. I MR. BARTHOLOMEW-You're town attorney is right behind you. SUPERVISOR B6RGbS-Good question. COUNSEL UUSEK-The' general municipal law really refers to governments, governmental bodies ... contracts. So i think if you have the authority to ... a contract then i think you are going to be into the bidding requirements. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think one of the, portions of the land, perhaps we have to look into more detail to separate the nature preserve from the other. One of the comments that has been made and suggested that commenced when Mr. Messinger was here, was for Earltown to attempt to acquire the Halfway Brook corridor adjacent to the land owned by Hiland Park. Hiland Park is now deeding to the Town of Queensbury some 60 to 70 acres. Earltown will be deeding another 40 acres to the Town. You now have a space of 100 acres that are almost contiguous. I would think that`that would be properly managed by the Town of Queensbury. We envisioned a portion of our funds from the site to go to that group for the Town. So the answer to part of Mr. Montesi's question, that would fall under your general operation budget and would have to follow what ever the municipal constraints are. Perhaps we want to look at the preserve as on option of what we talked about before, was to create an nonprofit organization. That becomes an issue of how we want to transfer the funds. If the funds are basically transferred to the Town and then back to the nonprofit group, there becomes on issue of whether it is a flow through and whether it is still governmental funds or not. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is why we have attorneys on both sides. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No wonder all the attorneys are so rich around here. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-If we do our homework right now, there won't be a problem in the future. COUNCILMAN MONAHAiv-That's right. SUPERVISOR BORGOS it we just start throwing money around we will be in trouble so I think these are all good questions and they can be ironed out. COUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-4 really like to comment just as a comment. It says acquisition of open space, critically sensitive lands and protection of wildlife and plant species. If we are going to acquire critically sensitive land, hopefully there is not going to be a heck of a lot money ..., that is one thing you don't want to go in and mess with is critically sensitive land. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That will be up to the Board, the governing body of that trust fund, which may be the Town Board. You just don't know. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If you take the concept of the 70 acres from Hiland, the 40 from Earltown, and then there is a parcel in between that is still in private hands, and this group acquired that parcel and then decided to develop a walk, a boardwalk concept over, a few bridges over the pond or the streams and back and provide a nature walk from Ridge Road and Hiland all the way to Meadowbrook Road. There is going to be some acres involved in that. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-1 agree but why is it any different for what we are talking about, then we are about Parks and Recreation, and Hovey Pond? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes that is what I was thinking. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-We've got an ongoing park and the Town doing it. I ` Y COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We certainly do. I guess the point that Steve was making was that this fund of money is going to be developed it has to be specifically earmarked then for Recreation Funds. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No, not necessarily recreation,parks. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Part of the fund would have to be earmarked to preserve and protect these particular acres in addition to other things. But these acres must be protected. COUNCILMAN PO1 F-NZA--I agree. I think that the point should be made that this trust fund will be used to protect and maintain the 102 acres of land gift but also could be used to acquire any additional lands in the Town of Queensbury. I think that you are right, I think you have - to pinpoint how the monies are going to go from the Earltown Corporation to the Town or to a committee or to an environmental group, whatever. It is getting the monies from there to here that is the problem that should be ironed out now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Now item H, tries to address that and pretty much. succeeds provided we've got the receiving body on the other end. It indicates just how and which, I think that is pretty complete. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Seems to need a little bit more detail. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In the administration of the expenses but that is part of, 1 think what we talked about in the last one. I think it was Paul who drew are attention to the bottom part of this one paragraph on page 4. This will represent a significant amount of funding and so forth. Who drew are attention to that? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Paul did, and how, who pays for it and who controls it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-He had several questions on that, which I assuming he will.. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Again that is the some problem. Okay, same concern. Item 1, any questions, comments. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That was your comment. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, I took care of the square feet. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dennis, 460 Single-family. MR. MACELROY-Oh, correct. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-And four village style condominiums representing four hundred dwelling units so we are up to 860. MR. MACELROY-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-17 large estate homes or 17 country-style inns. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Is that a change right there, those large estate homes or 17 country- style inns? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-They were supposed to be in the form of large estate homes but called i inns. MR`. BARTHOLOMEW-We've always had that in the original documents, Betty. We've had it country-style inns or large. estates, large estate homes. So in order to be consistent it would be 17 large estate homes or 17 country-style inns. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Or a combination. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Or a combination. SUPERVISOR Borgos-Why don't we write a combination of both. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-So it is conceivable that you could have 15 county-style inns and 2 huge homes? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about L, 150 rooms still the goal. 6041, MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes it is. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-M, we have no problem with? COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Excuse me Steve, that Hotel with a 150 rooms and I can't remember it could have been something in the other documents but are we talking also about big spaces for convention and banquets and things like that? Maybe that was described in more detail, I just don't recall it, I don't know. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We had provided in the impact statement a description with some square footage. If you like we can repeat some of that description. -- COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-.lu, ,t tell me where to look and I will go back and look for it. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Okay, within the, partially be in the executive summary of the supplement and then in the alternative section, we had a discussion. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-is it the intent to have a convention center in the hotel? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. We were talking about 13, close to 14 acres that would include as 150 room hotel with conference facilities. These conference facilities would be envisions of basically kind of mediu oriented, audio visual type of arrangements. COUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-Any place in there is it say how large a conference convention that you would expect this hotel could handle? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well I think that your hotel is going to be limited to the number of your hotel rooms. i think you have to work from the number of hotel rooms and the market study that Panellcur Foster did and incorporated in our draft impact statement. That you 150 rooms basically you're not talking large conventions, you're talking small workshop meetings that are broken up. You're talking associations that perhaps have regional meetings, you're not talking about the national organizations coming in here at this particular location. But to possibly, the smaller regional state wide organizations to be here. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Would you envision a gala bah being able to be performed in this, this convention center space? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Those type of things, certainly. COUNCILMAN MON TESI-Three or four hundred people. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Yes. COUNCILMAN PO TEN ZA-If you take 150 rooms by two people that is 300 people. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-It is going to be in a way, it will be an ideally, it would be a mini convention center for our community. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Correct. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Page 5, letter M. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-In those country-style inns, what was the capacity of those roughly? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-The capacity of those are twenty rooms. I think in the document we might have said seventeen to twenty-one rooms, Betty. Essentially those kinds of inns we're looking for a kind of condominiums style and that individual ownership of those inns would be developed with difference styles. Perhaps people would come in and operate a inn for two or three seasons. Another operator may come in and operate one inn for just the golfing season and close it down. This is a concept that is very popular over in Scotland and England now and starting to take a little bit of market up in the New England areas. Kind of adopting a small country inn, almost a bread and breakfast type concept. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Are we talking about a time sharing arrangement that way he people are going to run, manage or own these inns? y MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. COUNSEL DUSEK-Mr. Supervisor with reference to the Hotel with 150 rooms, it also should be added then that there will be conference facilities. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-With 150 rooms and related conference facilities. Thank you for calling that to our attention, good way to put it in. Page 5, letter M, N, O? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-One public course? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Section 2. This is just a recitation of what has happened so far. could find no discrepancy there. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-There is one correction under page 7, letter S. It should read 1988, not 1987. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. We skipped right over to page 7, letter S, now because - the intervening pages simply contain restatements of certain dates and what happened as far as the process to date is concerned for the benefit of the public. This takes all the way through page 8. Now we are on page 9. At the top of page 9, our attorney has indicated he wanted some extra language at the end of that first paragraph. Just a restatement of the language from page 1, I believe. The requirements of 8-0109.8 and so forth, have -been met. The second paragraph on that page, anyone have a problem? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 didn't agree with it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay lets go through it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-The Town Board reviewed eight reasonable alternatives, I don't think we ever did. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Lets strike the work reasonable? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well I don't think we ever reviewed them. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-They were submitted. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-They were submitted but vbry, very little information on them. I guess l have to go to DEC's letter that you got Steve as of they reviewed It and... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Lets agree, should we strike the work reasonable? That is an editorial comment of sorts. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 don't think we really reviewed them because they weren't in depth. But that is r„y personal opinion of them. MR. MACELROY-[ ell, I, two points I'd make there, is number one, reasonable, is part of language... SUPERVISOR BORGGS-That should be there? MR. MACELROY-Yes. Not that it should be questioned but... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about feasible, does the word reasonable appear in the law? MR. MACELROY-No, reasonable appears in the law. As far as reviewing them, they were part of, what ever form they took, they have been part of documents that are... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 didn't feel there was any depth to them, that they were statement after statement after statement, there wasn't any back up, there was no back up material there. i think that DEC made the same, I don't know if you have a copy of there comment, Dennis, but I think they made that same comment. Mr. Hale-Those type issues can be brought up in this findings statement, fact this that you see here. SUPERVISOR B OR GOS-Should that may be brought up? Mr. Hale-They, may be brought up and discussed in the findings statement. The findings of fact that is based on record. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It was my opinion as we came to each one of those that at least Earltown Corporation when we asked for extra information, offered more information. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 don't believe they were in depth, Steve. ^!l t MR. MACELROY-I'ea, whether this is, in this state, whether it's finally to be making this discussion or whether it is was more appropriate several months ago. But in any event the alternatives were presented in whatever form. It certainly is not uncommon that the preferred alternative gets much of the print and ones that are not, and if we reread the definition, the alternatives are meant to be discussed and sufficient details provided in comparison. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-It is judgemental. COUNSEL DUSEK-This is also a key point in the process because if the Board should not feel that the alternatives have been adequately explored this may lay the foundation for any denial of the ?outcome? MR. MACELROY-Exactly, exactly the point 1 just want to make you aware of because this paragraph. four and five that follows are sections of the law that are in part 617.9 that really is, you know it's-what you are saying is. Mr. HALE-Four and five actually represent the meat of the findings statement. I think if there is anything in it that is significant that these are the items that are significant. and those are the ones that carry the most weight through out. The remainder of the finding statement should be designed to reflect the reasons behind those statements. All the items supporting those decisions and each of those items are items that are presumably within the document proceeding this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This is where I would expect that there would be difference of opinion. Probably forever. This is the time to vocalize those differences because at some point we are going to be voting on this and that point will not be tonight. Any .member of the Town Board wish to make further statements about this? If not, I am talking now about item 4. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait a minute, aren't we talking about the paragraph above it? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay right, i just wanted to be sure. Haw about item 4? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 can't agree with that either. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are there any particular words that you'd like to change or words that you'd like to add or just generally.. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well 1, consistent with social, economic and other essential considerations and then you jump down, and one which minimizes or avoids adverse environmental effects to the maximum extent practicable, and I just don't think that that is a proved statement. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We are talking in this particular paragraph about the proposed rezoning not about a particular alternative but rather the fact that this, just try to make sure that I am clear now, rather the fact that the PUD designation is one which minimizes or avoids adverse environmental impacts rather than a particular alternative. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 might agree that the PUD does it, but not they way the PUD is implemented. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is why I want to be sure our language.. I think the question is the PUD as I read this statement. Maybe I'm wrong. MR. HALE-Well I think you are involving two different considerations here. In each of those statements I think deal with those separate items. COUNCILMAN POTC1V7A-What about paragraph 4? MR. HALE-They can be reworded. I think they should be reworded to get more specific. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. MR. HALE-In the context to the SEQRA laws. I think one of them deals more specifically ... with the alternative itself or the alternatives. Had they presented an alternative which is consistent and mitigates to a reasonable extent or maximum extent actually. Is there an alternative, and that is not necessarily preferred one, is there one in there that demonstrates this? Secondly that you go to the actually preferred development. COUNCILMAN MONTESi-But, let me just stop you for that minute. There certainly is if you don't do anything with the land. That is an alternative that met that requirement. Sure no use of the land at all would qualify, I mean that would be the easy way to get off with this one. We can say yea they did, they presented one that didn't, is that what you are saying? MR. HALE-Well I think that has got to be clarified however whereby the developer itself would actually state that that's not a reasonable alternative. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But I think mostly you have to go back with what Ron says and put in those words social, economic and other essential considerations, and I don't think no development would apply, using those words out. So i don't think that is an alternative you are talking about. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think the issue here is of course that there appears that obviously a difference of opinion among the Town Board members as to which of the alternatives. I think that in drafting issue the findings of the fact that Earltown is presenting has.indicated that we have presented eight alternatives. The alternatives have been deemed satisfactory according Environmental Design Partnership as meeting the intent of the state law. Now the Town Board is looking upon as to whether or not the preferred alternative is the alternative which is consistent with the language there in paragraph 5 that will, maximum extent practical will reduce those impacts. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We are still on 4 aren't we, I didn't think we got down to 5 yet? ; MR. BAR THOL OME bV-I think both of them, although they are... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think we are looking at an extension, it is ten after six, because we have really delayed you unnecessarily. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What do we do if its not done? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I won't be here. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-If this is not done we will have to tomorrow check some calendars and announce a continuation, agree with everybody. I don't imagine we will get done this evening. But I think the way we are going one more evening would do it, one more couple of hour meeting. What we are trying to avoid is having these things run until 11:00 or 12:00 at night and everybody's tired, and that is not good for anybody. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-We are available at your convenience sir. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Appreciate that, very kind. We'll try to get done fast. One way or another I think we would all like to be finished with this project. Page- 10. We decided to skip over to page 70 and hold' items 4 and 5 on page 9 until we get to the end of this. Page 10, section 6 are there any comments in that first paragraph? How about A? MR. MA GEL R O Y-i think a break, I guess a break down will have been presented., SUPERVISOR BOR COS-The 52 percent of open space? MR. MA CEL R O Y-No although this is the first time it has been discussed in terms of percentage. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you like the total acres compared to the total acres? MR. BAR THOL OMEW-No problem. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you do that for us please? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That is a pretty significant gift. Is that 52 percent of the land that we are talking about is going to remain in the quote open space condition? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-For on-site and off-site. MR. MACELROY-It includes that off-site acreage which, you .,know every acre of off-site you bring in is open space. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-To get your percentage did you tack your off-site acreage not only in what you're leaving open space but then did you percentage your total,852? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes, my first time I had over 60, Betty. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That would be a good deal. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-But I knew you were here. No, the first time I did we had over 60, and it looked good. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Paragraph B, any questions? it is a little bit of a restatement. MR. MACELROY-Maybe a clarification of, the gift is, about three different parcels. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Correct. MR. MACELROY-It is broken down here. But the gift is forty acres, the gift is thirty acres and the gift is thirty-two acres. In the forty and thirty include wetlands which are part of the mitigation. How much of that forty is, well it may not be the pertinent spot here to discuss how much is wetlands, but under the mitigation. I think in other locations we've discussed those acreages and if I am not incorrect its, I don't believe it, its not all wetlands. Of those forty, its not all wetlands. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-When you talk about wetland, a mature forest.. MR. MACELROY-Right. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do you want to end with that broken down here? MR. MACELROY-In this statement it is not necessarily, because it is just talking about a gift. But where we do talk about wetlands and mitigation and that acreage it should be broken down as to how much is. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-For the record or at least for the Board sitting here, the gifts of land and obviously we are dealing with an environmentally sensitive development in any event, and the gifts of land are in many ways helping mitigate, litigate some of these concerns. What was the other alternative, we've never been presented, you have 800 some odd houses, residents, how many dollars if the Town said we don't want the land, we want 250 dollars per unit as a recreation fee? What kind of dollars are we talking about? Are we accepting a percentage of land based on our Town forming the ... account? MR. MACELROY-A goor1 question. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I am not proposing that we ought to take 250 dollars a unit, I am saying that I am comfortable taking the land because I know I am dealing with an environmentally sensitive area and I want to try and preserve some of this sensitivity. But how many dollars nre we talking the other way and should we've had a choice? It is not a big question, I was just wondering. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But I think you are also saying its in 102 acres between the other formula that we have, isn't that, I forgot the exact formula. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Five percent. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No it is a certain ... acreage per unit if I remember correctly. But I see what you are saying those two comparisons should be made. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any further comments of that section 6? You know it has been proposed by our attorney that instead of numbering this 7, 1 believe, you would prefer to see that with a letter, is that correct? COUNSEL DUSEK-Yes I think that all the rest of the report here really relates to this broad category identified in the first paragraph under six, unless the applicant or Dennis, correct me on that. MR. MACELROY-I'm sorry. COUNSEL DUSEK-As I read the report is seems to me that everything really following that introductory paragraph six, really kind of relates to six. Am I correct and if so I would think they should just all be lettered from thereon in of ter six. MR. MACELROY-So seven should be just a further letter? u COUNSEL DUSEK-If it is in fact all part of six. SUPER VISOR BOR GOS-Would seven A then become C 1 or would A become E? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yea, we went through this internally and we are open to your suggestion on that Paul, because under seven falls the various elements or components of the PUD itself. COUNSEL DUSEK-You could probably very easily address it by making it seven, C and then 4 just like you would any kind of outline. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So seven should really become C and A should become 1. Before we go any further are there any questions about seven which is now identified as C? Okay, how about A which is now identified by 1? It is Arabic numeral one not roman numeral one. s COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 can't frankly agree with the accuracy of C. I think our Planner should be the one to look at C and determine whether that is an accurate statement or not. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 might just, before we got to this point, the Queensbury Planning Board did certify a compliance with our planned alternative. But to the Town... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I still believe that we should see if our professional planner will --� agree to that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think she was at that meeting that made her presentation. MR. MACELROY-I think the point is though whether this language reflects what the Article 15 says precisely. Now I meant to look that up and reference back to these quotes, whether it is taken partially or you know. It is something that can be simply checked. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Paul would you make a note to have me check that please? Okay on the bottom of page 11 we are looking at 1 now. Then we go to page 12, the top paragraph is still part of 1. We read number, letter B becomes Arabic number 2. Any question with the rest of 2? MR. MACELROY-Additionally, the shopping commercial plaza area allows convenient shopping and services to the residents and reduces further traffic. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Instead of eliminates. MR. MACEL.R0Y-Instead of eliminates. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-Where are you? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Fourth line, third paragraph, page 12. . Change eliminates to reduces. C becomes Arabic 3. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't want to be picky but I'm going to be picky. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This is the time to do it. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-A 32 acre walking nature preserve of Class 1 Wetlands, and my pickiness is, will that stay forever preserved throughout the development? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think that is the basis of all the discussion of the environmental fund and the restrictions. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-hi terms, Betty are you talking about the maintenance of 'it or the actually biology and the character of it? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-in your own impact statement you said that you couldn't guarantee that that would stay the type of land that is in this present time. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-In our final impact statement further clarification on that issue and we certainly can put more language in here that are intent will be to preserve that wetness. Now this preserve area is not dynamic area it is a changing area. This is not a mature Maple or Cedar Swamp. It is a young swamp and therefore when we use the word preserve I think different people have different concepts of what we mean as is that will constantly change. We are not going to change the environment within that 32 acres or that 63 acre area. That if necessary conditions will be attached to this if you so desire to indicate that the level of the water will maintain itself at its'currentstage. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 will feel more comfortable if you Rio. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You also address in your letter to the County when you said that in the design of the golf course Earltown would take steps ... to preserve as much moisture as possible. Natural preserve, specifically you address the 35 acres of the 63 and 32. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If i remember right they talked about pumping something in if they needed to. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 would feel more comfortable if... MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Do you want to incorporate some of that language then from the FEIS? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Alright. SUPERVISOR BORGOS PGge 12, 3. C now changes to 3. MR. MACELROY-1 -onder, excuse me though, is that the appropriate spot for it or is that just changing something. They are supporting, go back to 2, the article 15 says more useful open space, and necreation areas that are permitted and that statement that they are trying to support with these further comments if this is what is included, a golf course, cross country skiing, recreation parks in 32 acres. I don't know if that is the appropriate spot to say that you will try to preserves that 32 acre and whether it is in another point in the document. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think Betty, if perhaps if we flipped to page 32, not to try to get totally out of sequence here. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It is perfectly alright. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-But under O, this is the area perhaps Dennis is suggesting that we look at, of detailing out, perhaps under number 2, the enhancement and establishment of nature preserve on-site consisting of White Cedar swamp and Red Maple, and indicate in there, language to the efforts of preservation to a greater extent. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think we will review that again when we get to 32, but that sounds like a good spot. Going back on page 12, C which is now 3, any comments about that? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Again the 52 percent is being preserved as opdn space, 95 acres of the site's most environmental sensitive lands. 95 is somF significant...again the County. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 got that little asterisk. What we will do is break that out in more clear language. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-At the time of this findings statement be finalized we inay or may not know whether or not the County is going to go along with this. What kind of escape clause are we going to put in here if the County doesn't go along with'this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Well they will be short 63 acres, so we would have less. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So I guess that maybe were going to have to look for 63 acres someplace else. There should be some kind of escape clause in there. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well we had originally proposed 32 acres in our impact statement and I think our fall back position Betty would be is to revert, you ma'y disagree. with that, but our fall back position would be revert to the 32 acres. You are suggesting that we look for another 63 to keep at 95, correct? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well I have a hard time evaluating a plan that one minute tells me we are going to have 95 natural preserve and then another time tell everybody 32, that is kind of a hard... MR. BAR THOL OMEW-1 appreciate that but we've indicated in our proposed resolution that, why the distinction between the 32 and the 95. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Does your current information indicate that this request for the County as progressed through all the right committees, or has the Sale of Property Committee yet to be heard from? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-It is moving in that direction Steve. We hoped to get an update '— tomorrow from Mr. Lawson. We do have a follow up correspondence, which all of you got the letter and so forth and it had moved on to the Finance Committee and I think... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It has been very favorably received by everyone I've been at because the County is very anxious to sew up the rights to the landing strip.. I don't see.. COUNCILMAN MONA1iAN-You can't... 3 MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 can appreciate that Betty and we will have to put together a language that will meet the acceptance of your Town Attorney first and then the Town Board on how our approach to that would be. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-It will be in the final statement? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The worst scenario is when you have 95 and you have 32, that is the worst case scenario. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That is right. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-And the remaining 15 acres of preserved /and rather than the 5 to 7 acres. I mean those are the two variable figures. Now Betty wants 63 somewhere. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The only purpose of the 63 is it happens to be adjoining the Cedar Swamp, that is what the beauty of that number... MR. MACELROY-Not just 63 acres, but it is a particular 63 acres. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Oh yea, absolutely. I don't like to count the chickens before we get them. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The other thing we can do is put 32 in there and we know exactly where we are and if it changes then we have a nice bonus and we can change it back to 95. But if we don't have it all nailed down by the time we go to the final plan use... SUPERVISOR BORGvS.The next County meeting is the fourteenth, is that right? MR. BAR THOL OMEW-I believe so. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think that is the date that sticks in my mind. So we are eleven days away, I would think. COUNSEL DUSEK-You are under about an eight day time frame for this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We are at this time? COUNSEL DUSEK-Yea, we had thirty days from the date of our notice. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Good, I know we started talking about that and we were interrupted the other day. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So we have to come back to this before the County does. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We will work closely with the County to see what additional documentation we can obtain from the County and present some, alternative to the Town Attorney and to the Town Board. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Once it goes through the final committee stage, there is very little chance it would fail at the full Board. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-It makes sense, not for political reasons not for some ... on this project, it makes some sense for you to give up the 500 foot strip and try to acquire this additional land on the back side of your development so that ...32 acres is what we all have to live knowing that you are working toward 95. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is all I thought we had until I heard about this other a week or so. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think the point, Mr. Montesi that you raised, it is a particular 63 acres that we are interested in and because of the continuation of on the side of Earltown of having the Cedar and Swamp area, of why it is a contiguous parcel and a parcel that has been recommended to pursue and preserve. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If we can get to our quota 32 acres and except that concept,-then comes somewhere down the line another 63 comes available, that is a plus. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-1 won't turn it down. Great. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-You have to talk to Mrs. Monahan about that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments on page 12? Now we go to page 13, part of a first paragraph, how about second paragraph? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-No impact on the groundwater, that statement... MR. MA CELRO Y-That is a clear statement, what they presented. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-May I say something, that this is further addressed on page 22, what they propose if there is any impact. I don't know if there should be a little note there to see page 22 so that when you read this ... I SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-Why don't we do that. Where do you want to put it? Put i t right after the period. COUNCILMAN MONA HA N-A fter overlying low permeability clay. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right after that. What was the page, 22? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-22. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Good idea. Okay, next paragraph? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well 22 and 23. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So see pages 22 and 23. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-is that language under 22 and 23, Mrs. Monahan acceptable or would YOU... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes, thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay we will check on that again when we get there. Paragraph 3 on page 73? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 don't know if I like the word... i MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Mr. Borgos, I think that is paragraph 4 rather than 3. MR. MACELR0Y-D goes to 4? SUPERVISOR BORGO.S-D becomes 4, E will become 5. Okay we're now on 4. Anything in 5? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-You wanted to change to ordinonce number 57. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes the bottom of page 13, Town of Queensbury's Zoning Ordinance number 57. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-1 will go check. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The clerk wishes to check this time. I am sure she is right. I will bet on it. Lets go ahead to page 14. We'll come back and fill in that number. Any comments about those early paragraphs. Our attorney as recommended the elimination of paragraphs 4 and it's entirety. Again the last portion of paragraph 5. Editorial comment type things. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait are you back on the 4 we already did? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No, page 14. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Number 53. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-53, I lost my bet. S7 was.. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Another amendment, number 58 is the new one. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-So what are we talking? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-53, you want to go back to the original right? COUNSEL DUSEK-This would be number, the one that was passed in 1982. Izz TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-53. SUPERVISOR BOR GCS-.53. COUNSEL DUSEK-1 think maybe we shall also add then at that point, and it's amendments, or something to that effect. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-And it's amendments. So we're pinning it down. Thank you. Now back on page 14. We're looking at toward the elimination of paragraph 4, not a number but a position on the page. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think Paul has a very good point there. _{ SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I do too. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-May I just ask a question? Paul the second sentence in that paragraph that this development offers an opportunity for shopping as well as working in a project.site area? COUNSEL DUSEK-1 don't have a particular problem with that. I guess I kind of got carried away there.. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is a factual statement. I go along with putting that part back in. Does everyone agree? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Then you are going to take off on the next paragraph on the bottom, unlike many current projects... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Correct. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Perhaps we got carried away in that statement. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-How much of that is excluded? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Just from unlike all the way for the rest of that paragraph. Now number 8 should be.. Where did number 8 come from, we were just at 5. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-All right now we are back to letters. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So that should become another letter. That is a D? 8 becomes D. Page 14, number 8 becomes letter D. Number 9 on the next page becomes E. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Now we are at El, right? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-E would become sub-Arabic 1. MR. MACELROY-No, A. SUPERVISOR B OR G OS-Ins tead of A. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Paul wanted something added there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes, recommended that page 15 in the middle of what is now E 1, take out that portion, being approximately 5% of the total, not take out, but just add something. Being approximately 5% of the total annual housing starts for the Town of Queensbury, in what year, 1988, 1989? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-About twenty houses. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Well it refers to 89 in the same sentence just above it so... MR. MACELROY-being approximately 5% of the total annual housing starts, you would have to refer to a date that has already occurred, 1987. l think it is a historical reference. MR. BAR THOL OME=6t'-What we were going to do is because of the fact that when this original document and although were, it is impossible to update all of the statistics and figures. I think that we probably should remove that 20 and 5% and go with the revised phasing that is shown on page 17 perhaps. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Which part? Where would you like to start eliminating from, during? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Approximately, don't you? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think that whole paragraph could be deleted or just say reference should be made to the chart on page 17. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Because this is a finding statement, and I don't know how much legality it is, it says during the first principal year of development, and you specifically said 1989, and I would like to be positive with you on your development phasing, suppose it takes a year to get through your next review process, what happens to that, that statement of 1989? Should you or should you not qualify that? i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think that we somewhere in the, if you look on the top of page 18, after that phasing, we have one of the asterisks that Mr. Dusek was looking for, commencement of construction and associated phasing of units will vary depending on approval of PUD and market conditions. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So what you are really saying... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You are going to get approval of PUD, if we approve this. The market conditions are a question mark. But if you need a DEC approval and it doesn't happen in 1989, what does ;,parr thinking of your very first full year of development being behind in. 1989? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Alright I think what we have to, yes I think what we are looking at is our phases are broken down into five year phases. That is really the control rather than 1989 or 1988 or 90. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I'm trying to be help to you. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Why don't we just eliminate it? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 want to back up to something else cause Ron just mentioned something and it is DEC. That is on page 15 right after where we were just talking. This initial development primarily along the eastern portion of the project will occur on lands of the project which will require no additional approvals outside of those which are required for the Town of:Queensbury approval. l think what you are telling us there, that you intend to develop first on land that you don't have to go to DEC to get any approval for. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But they do have to take the time to work through all the Boards in Queensbury. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-it is going to take more time now with the new set up. So what you're saying, I'm assuming after the mark up you probably not even start this, period. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Oh the project will be started, most assuredly. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But if I read this literally though that is what you really are saying. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-What we are saying is that the numbers in terms of developments in family units and other things that we specify, obviously vary on the market conditions. The interest rate, depending on who is elected president, goes up to a greater extent then the mortgage homes, it may slow down a little. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Can we go back to the original problem and can we eliminate that percentage and get on with this, and replace it with the phasing that you have on the bottom of 17? Rather than go approximately 20 units or being approximately 5% of the total annual housing starts, can't we go in the phasing in of 30% with 89 to 93? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So you're going to take out the whole sentence, starting with during and ending with Queensbury. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay let me call to your attention at this moment that we have reached the predetermined time limit. Now, we have a choice, I planned to be very firm and I probably should. There is no way we're going to finish this this evening. My opinion is that we have made great process and because we did take some time with introductory remarks, I would think another two hour time frame certainly be more than adequate to take through the remainder of this document. But I would like to get some feeling if individuals here are interested at that point at the end of the next two hour time period in voting on what we've got here or what would be the... Wait and see... I just want some feeling of what... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We are on, there is 35 pages in this, could we at least go halfway so we... SUPERVISOR BOR COS-17J ? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well Steve I would suggest since we've gone to the top of page 18 so why don't we at least get through A which is now what? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is fine with me.... I don't think it will be tomorrow. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-1 won't be here tomorrow. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No I think tomorrow morning we will take a look at schedules and have Suzanne call everybody and see when the next quick day would be. I have no idea what my schedule is tomorrow. MR. MACELROY-Not to suggest anything other than time frames are meant to be broken. This has happened before, that time frame can be adjusted. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I thought so. MR. MACELROY-You're working towards something or if there is a significant problem. You on the Board should be making some decision or make some judgement without, now that is naturally... SUPERVISOR 8ORG OS-We don't want to postpone It until .lonuory. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, but we can wait until Warren County meet. MR. MACELROY-That is right, but if you are working towards something, I think you will I find, I would hope that all parties involved would come into agreement. . COUNCILMAN MON I ESI-Is there anything wrong with going and having an hour supper break and coming back? vnn are not going to be here for the rest of the week, Marilyn. COUNCILMAN POTINZA-That is right. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-We have a meeting in this room. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-All we need is a table. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We have to have room for the public. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Okay. We have EDP here, we've got the developer here, we're here, I don't know. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What is the feeling of the group? I'll just have to make a quick phone call to my divorce attorney. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I would just as soon not get into it tonight because ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS I'm trying not to rush, I don't want to be under the pressure of rush. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If we don't keep working at it, we're not going to work on this until, next week because Marilyn is gone for the rest of the week and George isn't here, if you cane do it with three but now you are taking two board members out of the review process, I don't' think that is too good. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any comments? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Earltown is always been receptive to working with the Town and the County and so forth however we feel that we'd like to move along on this process.. However we certainly feel that it is important to have the input of all Town Board. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What if we were to seek an hour or an hour and half break and then come back and get through it without taking any vote, without thinking of taking any vote, is that? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-We are not going to take a vote anyway., SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No we're not. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-It is not very convenient for me to come back here tonight. SUPERVISOR BURGOS-11m just trying to make it convenient for everyone here. I am more than anxious just to leave but. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We are meetable to whatever the Town Board SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Our concern is that Mrs. Potenza will not be available the rest of the week, is that right? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Right. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That would put into next week but it will take only one more meeting next week I believe. g COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think we should try and do it early in the week. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-You have alread y scheduled a meeting .... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That was that notice I saw an hour ago. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Right. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Part of next week you have a Town Board meeting, one day is a Holiday, Monday, Town Board meeting on Tuesday and you've got start your budget.. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Budgets will be coming up. f COUNCILMAN MONTESI-This is the best week to do this review... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Perhaps Wednesday the 12th, it will be a week from Again I will have to look at my calendar, but that would seem like a ossib lit y. Wednesday. `—" does that do date wise, do we need a letter, an agreement of some sort to extent? Now what MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think the follow up to that is that is the second time that we will be reviewing say pages from 18 to 35. Then we have to have this entire document revised or portions of 18 to 35 then reviewed again by the Town Board prior to a Town vote. So l think if we could map out a time table of beyond just not suggesting Mr. Supervisor the workshop next week but perhaps if we could then look beyond the 11th or 12th then say that after that there will be another workshop and or special meeting to,consideration of the vote. I think that that would be something that Earltown would certainly be acceptable to. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 have no problem with a whole bunch of special meetings at this point. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-The 12th is free. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The 12th is free? I just got notice this afternoon, my speech for that night has been postponed to November, so I know I am free on the 12th. Why don't we look at four o'clock on the 12th? Four O'clock on the 12th. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Would it be possible then, I think then Earltown can incorporate into one letter back to the Town of Queensbury our consent... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I just have a problem with my calendar, maybe you can see me right after, we can walk dow,-7. Why don't we say tentatively this and Ed can see me right after or have Suzanne call early. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We can come back the next day. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-They have to got to type all those... How many days will that? MR. BAR THOL OMEW-1t will be done. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What was the suggestion the 17th? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-The 17th. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is at four o'clock? I remember seeing that language. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What is that? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Why don't we talk about it right after the meeting and will have my secretary make some phone calls tomorrow. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We are firm on the 12th? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The 12th is tentatively firm. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-For the review of 18 through 35? S UPER VISOR BOR COS-A t Four P.M. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What we need is a day or two to get all of those compiled into a final form and ive have to review that. Are we going to review it at the meeting or are you going to criticize the developer for not getting it to or what are we going to do? Do we want to review that together at a meeting? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 don't know. Once it has been revised based on the language here maybe our attorney can just check it through or individual Board Members, I don't know. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What I am saying is if you hold a meeting on Friday at four o'clock, on the 14th, when you walk in the door Ed, maybe that morning you might have hand delivered these letters to the Board Members, but at four o'clock we just going to sit down and review that what you typed is what we had these two meetings for. MR. BAR THOLOMEW-Earltown doesn't have a problem in after we do the final document that certainly give the Town Board a reasonable opportunity to have Paul review it as well as the Town Board members. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That is more than a days work. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I know that, I'm saying how quickly do you want, I'm asking you what your work schedule is. If we take page 18 to 35 on the 12th, when do you want to come back with the final? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think it will be up to the availability of your schedule. If we could set something up for the early part of that following week. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Monday there is a sewer meeting, that I have. There is a special Town Board meeting at four, EDC meeting on Tuesday, whatever. You've got budget meetings all next week too. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Probably back in this week. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What is wrong with Monday? COUNCILMAN MON TESI-Nothing. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-You can't meet. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-This Monday? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Monday the 16th. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-They didn't say Monday the 16th, that is a Sunday. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Oh°I'm sorry. .. . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You're right. What if we shoot for the 14th? Is it too early for you? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Bob can you, like the 12th, I might be the worst day, can you get here earlier than four o'c lock, can you meet at three thirty? We will just have to figure to keep going until we get done, that is all. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-11m sure we'll do it in two hours next time. Let's agree on a time, four or three thirty? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think you should have sandwiches sent in. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is an idea, for us. Four o'clock or three thirty? I think a number of people indicated they don't want to continue. It will be another couple of hours. It looks like the 12th at four o'clock is the one that is tentatively firm. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Four o'clock for the final review. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We can have the documents, again that is up to the Town Board and the Town Attorney if they feel that is proper time. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-The problem with that Ron is the fact that when you get, you're j going to get the final findings and I don't know how you are going to do it but what I am going to do is go through this and correct it here and just verify that it is corrected in the second one. Now you've got, we are going to meet Tuesday or Wednesday the 12th at four o'c lock and we are going to go through another fifteen pages or so and Lord knows how late, maybe ten or eleven o'clock that night. Then you've got Thursday the 13th to have it typed up and hand delivered to us and make a decision on Friday the 14th? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Why don't we figure out the meeting on the 12th and between now and then we'll look at some reasonable time frames. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-1 think we owe Earltown Corporation a date. Why don't we do it the 18th at seven o'clock, you've got QEDC meeting at three thirty, can't we meet at six o'clock on the 18th? That gives us a weekend to review it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is not a Town Board meeting. Okay. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No we will meet in another room. We have to meet somewhere... Can we have an earlier meeting on the 18th? SUPERVISOR BORGOS- 11:00 o'clock? Maybe QEDC can be moved? What is your privilege. COUNCILMAN POTENZA 4:00 o'clock on Tuesday the 18th.1 SUPERVISOR BORGOS-forrr o'clock on Tuesday the 18th. COUNCILMAN POTkNZA-We have a four o'clock local law. Can't we kill two birds with one, do the same thing on Monday. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-11d like to do that. Maybe the Committee Chairman will cancel is 17th meeting. We will meet at four o'clock on Monday the 17th. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Then we will do both. We'll do Earltown and the local law, right? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Boy am I glad you're agreeable. We'll do local law first, we'll follow with the Earltown discussion. MR. BAR T140L OMEW-Four p.m. on Monday? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Four p.m. on Monday the 17th. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Is that okay with Earltown? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That is fine. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-And we will try to program what exactly it is we are going to do. The 12th we are going to finish this document. The 17th acceptance this and perhaps do something else. COUNCILMAN PO TEN ZA-Sometime between the 12th and the, I guess the morning of the 15th the findings of fact, the final findings of fact, will be delivered to each member of the I Board, correct? i MR. MJAATVEDT-It will be there by Friday afternoon, correct. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Super. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We've arrived at a great decision here. Lets go back to page 15. We're going to go through or sooner, we'll go through page 17, so we will have it finished. Any questions? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 got to remember where we were Steve. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We are on page 15, we've gone through the middle and we've replaced that with something that was on another page, page 17. Now we're looking at the last paragraph on page 15. It was recommended that the remainder parcels may be sold. Page 16, any concern about the first paragraph on the page? Second paragraph? Third paragraph? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Just a question. If you don't need a hotel, just inns, do you have any alternative in mind, while the inns that you've got will be the country estate, what about the hotel? MR. BAR THOL OMEW-The hotel will be open space. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Lets say what open space is. MR. MA CEL R 0 Y-Golf courses. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-As open space it may conclude, if you don't have the hotel there, some rearrangement of the golf course area. We are talking hotel is about eleven to twelve acres. We're not talking a significant large amount. We will define that as open space. Part of it presumably will become a golf course area. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Page 16, we are on paragraph number 4, now. What about in the middle of the page? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-The smaller inns, does that happen to have whether or not you Will sell, have a time sharing or whatever you want to talk, or is there a possibility Earltown themselves might ... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think for clarification we should probably remove.the words smaller inns. What the design of the hotel is kind of being designed as a country style inn with the main, the major hotel of 150 rooms. i think we're trying to use In reference to that Betty, smaller meaning those smaller inns, so lets delete the word smaller out of there. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No.. but what I am saying is that the fact that you are going to be developing inns themselves, will that depend upon whether or not you sell these... or possibly might Earltown themselves run those inns? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Earltown may have some ownership in some of those inns. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about the next paragraph? Pretty much a statement of fact. The next to last paragraph? MR. MA CELRO Y-Over a fifteen year period or twenty years? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well the entire project again we've tried to project on residential, fifteen to twenty year projection again depending on market conditions. The market study from Pennell Kerfoster, indicated a general development of the plaza commerciar probably would occur over a twe/ve to fifteen year period. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So instead of saying over the, you might want to say over o fifteen year period? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Over a fifteen year period. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-is the relationship of percentage belonging to these differences really set or is that also relative to fine conditions. I mean is this something subject to change? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-The plaza commercial area is essentially is the area that is zoned plaza commercial along the front area and Earltown is going to be developing that over a phase depending on market conditions. And does it expect a change Betty, I think-the realistical view of that property is located north and south of Quaker Road and really would not have any other uses other than plaza commercial. I can't see for instance, you know your not. going to have residential. I don't think people would want to be next to Quaker Road. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The last full paragraph on page 16. 1 think your word attract should be attracting, am i correct? MR. BAR THOL OMEW-Correct. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Now I go over to the top of page 17. First paragraph, any comments about that? Second paragraph on the middle of the page? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-One question on'the golf course. k SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Where are you? COUNCILMAN MONTCSI-I went back one page. What happens if you don't develop the second Of the golf course? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-if there isn't a second phase in the golf course that that will be developed as open space. If y-u iv,?uld like we can supplement that paragraph for you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In the middle of the page on page 17. Now the last full paragraph on page 17, it has been suggested that you strike the first part of the first sentence, is that acceptable? Page 17, the last paragraph, unlike the majority of the projects. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes we deleted that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Then we start with a capital t on the. At the end of page 17. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think your suggestion there was on the top after PUD and other approvals and market conditions. That language on that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes. Okay, we've finished what we planned to do for tonight. Do 18 through 35 next time. l really don't think the rest of it will be as difficult as what we've gone through but you never know. COUNSEL DUSEK-Mr. Supervisor, if I may just make, the Board had a question I guess, one comment. During the remainder of this document, since. this is the Board decision, of course any further findings and fact that the Board feels relevant as they review the final parts of the document, we should add in or plan to add in at the next meeting, in the event that you feel that there should be something that is not there at all, based upon the documentation. The other thing is that once this findings is completed there is a resolution that accepts the findings which the applicant has proposed which I will be reviewing. There is, basically it's a very standard form type of resolution so that shouldn't cause the Board too much difficulty. In the event that they accept it of course. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The only problem with that the statement whether it is 32 or 95 acres, your resolution does make a note of that 95 acres. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But we're going to know that. The County will have met and hopefully taken action. COUNSEL DUSEK-The other item that is on the agenda too for the Board's review is that the applicant has submitted to me the actual, proposed resolution for the actual PUD. I don't know if that is something the Board wants to schedule for a further date or would you be considering that, I'm just wondering that for my own purposes as far as reviewing it for the Board? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is what I would like to know. I think for the next day.or so we can hash that out and look at an appropriate number of hours and try and put things in place. MR. MACELROY-1 would add, Paul you can correct me, that that PUD resolution, and you get to that point, is what sums the law that you fall back on when you get into the site plan reviews, there will be certain conditions that are specifically set. We've talked about them in the findings but they are conditions that are set within that PUD resolution that hopefully and this is something that inevitabley happens, but when you get two, three, five, ten years down the road, site plan review, you better be referring back to that PUD resolution to make sure that those conditions that we were all so intelligent to put on the project, are followed through with the Planning process or the Planning Board. COUNCILMAN MONTESi-Does that happen, on the PUD, the last one that you reviewed for the Town, that we referred back to that resolution of the findings? MR. MACELROY-Well I think there are two situations here. Number one, as the Town evolves and you become more sophisticated, what is written and what is approved, that your resolution for Hiland which, nc l mentioned we weren't involved with doing it. initially but I have seen a copy of it. It certainly not to the, well it's a couple of pages long, well that is the resolution which refers to the findings. MR. BAR THOL OMEW-The findings are right here. Nine pages. MR. MACELROY-It certainly not as significant as this will become. I don't know who within the authority of the Town is reviewing that to check to see whether things are being complied with. I would guess, I would assume that the requirements within it are 'fairly general and not as D specific as these will become. COUNSEL DUSEK-This is in reference to Hiland? MR. MACELROY-Yes. COUNSEL DUSEK-For the Board's information, Hiland is now starting to engage site plan `` review process so it will be, there will be follow up and oversees. AIR. MACELROY-1111 correct you in saying that it's been under site plan review for over a year. We reviewed a project last fall for there construction, there are people moving in. So there are the needs. COUNSEL DUSEK-That further review plan, I know, I think this next meeting. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But I think what Dennis is saying is anybody checking the findings for making sure that the Planning Board is referring back to findings when they review. MR. MACELROY-Right or conditions that were set forth in the PUD resolution. I made mention of this the other day, the situation that occurred related to the roads. That's the type of thing that should be defined in the PUD resolution so that five months, six months, ten years down the road, your not faced with scratching your head and saying, well what was approved or your are going on memory or heresay, so. That is why these conditions that are going to be discussed iii the findings that they also find their way into the PUD resolution. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Further comments? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Not at this time. ' SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any Board members, further comments? If not we are ready for a motion to adjourn. On motion, the meeting was adjourned. 1 RESPECTFULL Y SUBMITTED, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK I