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1977-11-16 ÆìJ Official Minutes of the QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS held November 16, 1977 at 7:35 P.M. There were present: Jack Fitzgerald, Chairman George Kurosaka Sjoerdge Richardson Charles Sicard Kirkham Cornwell being members of the Board. Guests: George Liapes Harold Boynton On a motion by Mr. Sicard, the minutes of the October meeting were approved. This was seconded by Mr. Cornwell. Carried. Mr. Fitzgerald suggested that the Board observe a moment of silence in memory of a member of our Board who was with us a very short time but who is no longer with us, John Silva. A moment of silence was observed in memory of Mr. Silva. Mr. Fitzgerald suggested that the secretary, Mr. Kurosaka, would draft an appropriate resolution to put into the minutes to express to the wife of John Silva our deep appreciation for his services. Mr. Ted Turner sent flowers in the name of the Board. NEW BUSINESS: Variance #518 - Joseph F. Anselmo ( A & W ) south side of Quaker Road (Warren County Planning Board) C-3 Zone Mr. Fitzgerald disqualified himself on voting on this variance. Variance #518 2 171 The application for Variance # 518 is to place an addition to an existing building with l7 feet rear setback in lieu of the required 30 feet rear setback on the property situated at the south side of Quaker ROàd. The property here is owned by -~*" the )r.B.E.G. Development Corporation. It is located on the south side of Quaker Road. Actually it is the A & W operation. The applicant is proposing to build on the rear end of the property a new concrete block building and canopy. Mr. Joseph F. Anselmo appeared on behalf of this application. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Anselmo who the rear neighbor would be who would be effected by the 17 feet setback. Mr. Anselmo stated that it would be Mead's Nursery. At this time Mr. Anselmo submitted some pictures of the future project. Mr. Cornwell asked if Mead's had been informed of this variance. Mr. Kurosaka stated that they would have had to been and checked the records to verify his statement. Mr. Kurosaka asked if the existing building is the same distance away. Mr. Anselmo stated that it was. Mr. Kurosaka asked if it would be setback anymore than the existing building. Mr. Anselmo said no. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Anselmo what he proposed to do, the same operation as you are and you just need more room. Mr. Anse lmo sa id ye s . Variance # 518 3 1'1 ï Mr. Kurosaka stated that they notified everybody within 500 feet of the property line (distinguished by the tax map) of this meeting and the variance to be acted upon. Mr. Kurosaka asked if this building was going to look the same as the building presently on the site, just 20 feet to the west. Mr. Anselmo answered yes. At this time Mr. Fitzgerald asked the audience if there was anyone else appearing for or against this application, Variance # 518. No response from the audience. Warren County Planning Board recommended approval. No comment. Town of Queensbury Planning ,Board recommended approval. No comment. Report from the Beautification Committee stated "An attempt has been made to beautify this property in the past and it appears that the applicant recognizes a well maintained and attractive place of business is good business so we (Beauti- fication Committee) have no action in this case." Mr. Kurosaka read a letter from Ray Wynn, Brick Gables. Mr. Wynn stated in his letter to the Board that Mr. Anselmo is a fine fellow, hard worker, from the City, hopes to settle here, is new blood, new tax dollars. As you know new business is what it is all about. Mr. Anselmo is an excellent neighbor; runs a fine, clean and attractive business and is a credit to the town. Mr. Wynn asked that the Board sees fit to help Mr. Variance # 518 4 /7S Anselmo. Mr. Sicard made a motion that Variance # 518 be approved. Sjoerdge Richardson seconded the motion. Carried. Mr. Fitzgerald abstained. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTS THIS VARIANCE, VARIANCE # 518, IN CONCURRENCE WITH THE WARREN COUNTY PLANNING BOARD AND THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD. Variance # 519 - Henry Anable M-l Zone Quaker Road (Warren County Planning Board) Mr. Henry Anable, the applicant for this variance is hospitalized. The Board agreed to table this variance. The Board: RESOLVED: TABLED. Variance #520 - R. J. Grasse C-) Zone Northway Plaza - Route 9 (Warren County Planning Board) R. J. G.' s Hair Styles request a variance from the Queensbury Sign Ordinance as it refers to maximum square footage for the business it advertises. Also to vary from the sign ordinance by locating the sign above the roof line. The application is on the bases of hardship. The ordinance willonly allow a )) square foot sign which can not be seen -.-- from the left side of the Northway Plaza parking lot. Variance #520 5 /7~ The applciant is R. J. Grasse, Cale Development Corporation. This is the former Mr. Walt's property. Mr. Kurosaka disqualified himself on this variance. Mr. Robert platt of Signs of Progress appeared with Mr. R. J. Grasse. Mr. Grasse is the new owner of Mr. Walt's Coiffures. Mr. P la t t presented the Board with some p±ctures of the former Mr. Walt's sign. The sign was a large, oversized sign which has been removed. Mr. Grasse didn't want anything like that. Mr. Grasse wants a nice, clean, attractive, more modern sign. Mr. Platt stated that the size of Mr. Grasse's business is only 22 foot wide, that is a 22 fot frontage, and according to the sign ordinance you are only allowed a 33 square foot sign, which is just a little bit bigger than a 4 by 8 piece of plywood. Mr. Fitzgerald asked how this measures up to the former Mr. Walt's sign. Mr. Platt drew up a picture showing the situation in that corner and to show the Board where the hardship was coming from. Mr. Platt pointed out 3 squares, the outside square (blue) is the former Mr. Wa It' s sign and its size was 5' 9" by 20 foot long or a total of 115 square foot of sign area. The green area on the picture is the area that would be encompassed by the sign we are asking for, to take the place of the previous sign. It is 4' Variance #520 6 17'7 high by 15" wide and it would encompass a square footage of 62 square feet. The orange area on the picture shows the size of the sign that could be put there under the existing ordinance which is 4 by 8, 4 by g, 3" to be exact, which is the allowable sign and of course would have to be down below the roof line. Mr. Platt stated that the sign they are asking for in this green square is 54% of the sign area that was formerly there, the Mr. Walt's sign, so it takes about approximately half the square footage, 62 square feet compared to ll5 square feet. Mr. Platt points out the fascia above the canopy roof line which is 9' 5" high over at the Big N and Mr. Grasse's fascia area drops down to a height of 5' 6" because the mall area drops down, down the hill here. Had the mall continued the fascia area at the same height there would be no problem as far as the roof line is concerned. Mr. Platt wanted to show the Board what a sign like that would look like so he took a piece of plywood, painted it up, and put it in postion on the building and took a picture of it for the Board to see. The first picture was taken 29 yards away, the second at 60 yards away. At the 60 yards you can see how small it begins to appear. Then as we go on to 90 yards it begins to disappear. At 150 yards the sign is not even visible from across 7 Variance #520 /7 g the parking lot. Mr, Fitzgerald asked Mr. Platt if #29 (29 yards) is the official sign. Mr. Platt said that was not the official sign, it was just a sign he made up and put up and took some pictures. Mr. Fitzgerald asked what it represented in size. Mr. Platt stated that that would be the sign the Queensbury Zoning Ordinance would allow, 33 square feet. Mrs. Richardson asked if this would be the sign allowed without a variance. Mr. Platt replied yes. Mr. Cornwell stated that these pictures were taken with a short focus lenses. Mr. Platt said the pictures were taken with a Poloroid camera. Mr. Cornwell stated that that doesn't ap- proximate what the human eye see, you are suppose to use a 90 millimeter lense. Mr. Platt said that he has a Poloroid camera, the smae as the Town uses to take their pictures with and it wasn't his intent~bring in distorted looking pictures. Mr. Platt stated that the proposed sign is pretty small compared to the other sign (Mr. Walt's sign) and Mr. Grasse doesn't want any kind of sign like that. Mr. Grasse is asking for a sign that is 62 square feet instead of 33 square feet. Mrs. Richardson asked if this sign does not project above the roof. Mr. Platt said without the variance the sign could not project over the roof line. Mr. Platt said thathe made a suggestion here that the 4' be lined up with these which is 2' over the roof line, and Variance # 520 '8 f 7 9 2' under the roof line. Mrs. Richardson asked Mr. Platt how he felt about the size he was asking for but not above the roof line. Mr. Platt said that Mr. Grasse's problem was that he is down in the corner, Montgomery Wards is beside him and if you walk down around the corner form Montgomery Wards you can't even see his place of business. Mrs. Richardson stated that this sign right now is a non- conforming sign according to our new ordinance. Mr. Cornwell stated that the position down in the corner is a self-imposed hardship. Mr. Platt says that Mr. Grasse does have a problem down in the corner, it was Mr. Walt's before and he just bought the business. Mr. Platt stated that it is not detrimental to the area, the whole area is all commercial and it is not out of harmony with the rest of the neighborhood. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Platt if he would consider changing the copy on that sign. Mr. Platt replied that he can't do that ac- cording to the new ordinance. Mr. Sicard asked if you would œed a permit. Mr. Platt said that you would need a variance. Mr. Kurosaka states, in reference to the application not in reference to this particular subject, that on the Application for Variance it states, "the ordinance would only a llow him a 33 Variance # 520 9 ¡80 square foot sign" and that is an error. The Zoning Ordinance reads "100 square foot not to exceed 25 square foot of wall area". Mr. Platt asked. Mr. Kurosaka to look on page 13, signs in shopping areas. It reads "one free standing sign permitted in these circumstances". Mr. Kurosaka asked where is the 33 square feet. Mr. Platt stated that if you go back to page 12 at the bottom it tells you what size. Mr. Kurosaka reads from the Zoning Ordinance" Buildings which are located within a distance of 100 linear feet from the front property line are permitted a wall or permitted a roof sign up to 100 square feet." And above here it also says something about it can not exceed 25% of the wall a re a . Mr. Platt asked Mr. Kurosaka to read the bottom line. Mr. Kurosaka reads the bottom line. In the bottom line it says "Buildings more than 100' set back from the front pro- perty line will be permitted (now this if for the additional 10 square foot of distance, that applies only to that, it doesn't apply to the 100 square feet). Mrs. Richardson reads the last sentence "A shopping center with a group of stores shall not be eligible". Mr. Kurosaka stated that when the Board discussed it it applied to 10 square foot per lO foot distance back additional. It doesn't Variance # 520 10 I f I mean it doesn't allow them the 100 square foot of sign. Mrs. Richardson stated she didn't know what their wall area is. Mr. Platt stated it is pretty ambiguous at that point and we have always given the benefit of the doubt to the Town be- cause it doesn't specify on page 13 what size you can put up. Mr. Kurosaka stated a legal wall sign is 100 square feet in a shopping center. Mr. Platt disagreed with Mr. Kurosaka and stated that a legal wall sign is not 100 square feet in a shopping center. Mr. Kurosaka disagress with Mr. Platt. Mr. Platt stated that it was just said that it does not apply to shopping centers, the bottom line. (page 12 of the Zoning Ordinance) . Mr. Kurosaka stated that that was meant to apply to 10 square foot per 10 foot length. Mr.. ,Platt said that you know when you read that you have to take it for the way it reads not the way it implies. Mr. Platt agrees with Mr. Kurosaka that he knows the law was implied to be that way but it is not written up that way and the building in- spector goes just exactly by the rules here. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Platt how come he has 33 square feet Variance # 520 11 /8) because the thing says 30 square feet. Mr. Platt said that because there was no criteria for that sign, ther is no criteria for size for that sign, so you have to go back to the previous thing. There is no size limitation for the size of the shopping area. Mr. Platt doesn't think he would have had any trouble but if he wnet to see George Boynton and he said wait a minute, you have to go by the rule and the rule is Ii square foot for every lineal foot of frontage. That is the rule they have been going by. Mr. Kurosaka asked where that is stated. Mr. Platt replied that that is stated on the previous page, page 12 and page 13 talks about the shopping center. Mr. Platt says that unfortunately that was some- thing that was left out of the ordinance. Mr. Kurosaka asked where that was stated in the Queensbury Ordinance and he is not interested in the Glens Falls Ordinance. Mrs. Richardson asked what is the wall area. Mr. Platt answered that the wall area is 5'6". Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Platt where he got this Ii square foot for every lineal foot of frontage. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it was not in the Queensbury Ordinance that he knows of and he worked on the Ord inance . Mr. Platt stated that he might have made a mistake. Mr. Kurosaka said that that was in the Glens Falls Ordinance not Queensbury Ordinance. Variance # 520 12 J 181 Mrs. Richardson stated that they were allowed a )0 square foot sign. Mr. Kurosaka said that he was questioning the ordinance him- self, I am not questioning this particular thing myself. Mrs. Richardson stated that they gave her the wall figures and 25% is )0 square feet. Mr. Kurosaka said that their intent when they wrote the ordinance was that 10 square foot per 10 lineal foot was not to apply to shopping centers, it wasn't 100 square feet. But of course ~e didn't have 100 square feet to start with, we had 50. Mr. Platt stated that he took the wrong ordinance, the City of Glens Falls instead of the Town of Queensbury. Mr. Platt doesn't think the propøaed sign is out of harmony with the neighborhood, there are certainly no houses or residential area, this size sign is right at home. Mr. Cornwell stated thatevery shopping area has a life of 11 years before it starts to go downhill and they are just trying to prevent it from becoming trashed up. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there were any other appearances on behalf of this application. There were no other appearances. The Town of Queensbury recommended approval of this variance. Warren County Planning Board recommending by approving new signs it is conflicting with the new sign ordinance. Variance # 520 13 /3Lf Mr. Fitzgerald stated that the Board was in an awkward position because there are 7 members and there are only 6 members with John Silva there is a vacancy on the Board. Ted Turner is absent. George Kurosaka is abstaining. We have to have a majority plus one on the County Planning Board and a majority is 6. Mr. Fitzgerald does not see how the Board can act on this application and thinks the Board ought to table it for a month. Mrs. Richardson asked if it is a majority plus on of those present or the total Board. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that as he under- stood it, it is the total Board. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Platt if this proposed sign could be moved over, can it be moved to the angle, moved away from the canopy. Mr. Platt said that it would probably be to their advantage to move the sign away from the canopy and at an angle. Mr. Cornwell stated that roughly from McDonald's you could see the old Mr. Walt's sign and asked Mr. Platt if he was trying to achieve that same effect. Mr. Platt stated that Mr. Walt's sign was 49" over the top of the canopy and the proposed sign is only going to be 24" above the top of the canopy, it will be about 2' lower. Mr. Fitzgerald told Mr. Platt that the Board would not be able to take any action on this application tonight other than to turn it down because by law the fact that the County Planning Board has V~riance # 520 14 ¡g5 turned this down we need a full majority plus one and we have just a 4 man Board here. So we could not possibly ever agree to your application and the only fair thing to do is to table this until the next monthly meeting and hope we will have one more voting member present. The Board happens to be shy one member by absence and the other by reason of death. Mr. Fitzgerald thinks in fair- ness to Mr. Platt and Mr. Grasse this application should be tabled rather than take the only alternative action and that is to turn it down. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Grasse if he was now open for business. Mr. Grasse stated that he was, he started last week. Mr. Sicard asked the other Board members if it would be permissible to leave this sign up until the Board takes action. Mr. Cornwell stated that the sign was down. Mr. Platt stated that the sign they took the pictures of was just a paper sign and they used it only for the purpose of taking the pictures. Mr. Cornwell stated that he didn't think the Board should keep Mr. Grasse out of business for a month and could he put a temporary sign up and get by on that. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that the only thing Mr. Grasse could do is put up a component sign temporarily. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he has no other alternative because Variance # 520 l5 {ófr right now if he polls the Board and everybody was in favor of this application it still would have to be turned down. The Board: RESOLVED: TABLED. Variance # 52l - Convenient Food Market C-l Zone Corinth Road (Warren County Planning Board) The application for Variance # 521 is to obtain a variance to the Town of Queensbury Sign Ordinance as it pertains to side line setback requirements. The applicant requests a 5' setback rather than the 15' setback as set forth in the ordinance. It is necessary because it incurs a safety hazard for people entering and exiting the parking lot. The owner of the property is Quaker Realty, Mr. Norman Benack. Mr. Robert Platt, Signs of Progress, appeared on this application. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Platt if this was a conforming sign. Mr. Platt replied that it was. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Platt if the Board was only discussing a setback. Mr. Platt answered yes. Mr. Platt presented a drawing to the Board and explained that they are asking for a variance from the front right-of-way line, 15' that is the normal part, we are asking for a setback on the sideline. This is a new sign. It is a legal sign. It is a 50 square foot sign. Mr.P1attintrodu.ced Mr. Keith Patrick, Vice' President of Operations Variance # 521 16 J 8'7 in the Convenient Food Markets, to the Board. Mr. Patrick is appearing for Convenient Food Markets. Mr. Platt stated that they are asking for a 5' setback because this area here is blocked out as parking area (indicated on the draw- ing) and with the sign out here, 15' away from the right-of-way line, it is in the way of cars driving in and out of the property and they are asking that the Board vary the setback to 5', not from the front line but from thesideline so that the only thing it would do is take up one parking place, instead of it being way out here (indicated on the drawing) where cars will be driving in an out. At four, five, or six o'clock, their busy time, people going home from work, going to Corinth, this is a convenient market and the cars are driving in and out and at night we are afraid it is going to be hit and be a safety hazard to cars going in and out. Mr. Platt stated that here is an existing sign over there. It is sitting there, it is a non-conforming sign, it is actually sitting over thhe right-of-way line and that will be removed. There is also a sign going on the building which is conforming to the size. The only variance is the side setback, and it is just a matter of safety for traffic going in and out. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Patrick what they were going to do with the market on Dixon Road. Mr. Patrick stated that he did not know, they were undecided as yet. Variance # 521 17 I Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Patrick if they were going to take down the sign and clean up the premises. Mr. Patrick said yes they would. Mr. Cornwell stated that the sign was half taken down, the gar- bage is tipped over and the kids have put graffiti allover and he thinks this should be cleaned up before the Board gives a variance. Mrs. Richardson asked if Mr. Cornwell was talking about the Dixon Road stroe or the Corinth Road store. Mr. Cornwell replied that he was talking about the Dixon Road store. Mrs. Richardson asked if this was all blacktopped (indicating to area on drawing). Mr. Platt replied yes. Mrs. Richardson asked if the total blacktopped area belongs to Conven- ient Food Market. Mr. Platt stated that is 115'. Mrs. Richardson stated that there was a house here (indicating on the drawing) and she didn't know if the homeowner would want a sign piping from their property. Mr. Platt stated that they re- ceived a notice and they would be here tonight is they had any objection. Mr. Boynton asked if this was in the same position that the other sign was'in. Mr. Platt replied no, that it is back from the other sign, look on the plan and you will see. Mr. Cornwell asked if it was on the same side as the house. Mr. Kurosaka stated that members of the Board had the wrong drawings (maps) on the back of their copies of the application, Mr. Variance # 52l lË I ~1 Platt submitted a revised drawing but no one has it. Mr. Sicard asked if they had a use, prior to the amount of parking space, for each 2000f space inside. Mr. Platt replied that he din't know, he was a sign man not a parking lot man, he can't answer that question at all. Mr. Kurosaka said that you can't do anything about that, it is a preexisting building and it was a commercial building, you can't do anything with it. Mr. Sicard stated that maybe you didn't need to wasted the space with a lollipop out there, you could put a better sign on the front of the building. Mr. Platt stated that there is a tremendous turnover of cars in the parking lot and they felt it was important enough to come before the Board to move the sign back over 5'. Mrs. Richardson asked if the houses on either side were residential zones. After conversing the Board decided it was either C-1 or C-) up in that area. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Platt what the proposed lighting was for the sign. Mr. Platt stated that the lighting inside the sign was a double faced interior a1uminated plastic sign. It is lighted by fluorescent lamps, high output lamps, powered by cold weather balances. Mr. Sicard asked what the store hours they plan, is this a 24 hour operation? Mr. Patrick replied 7 am to 12 midnight. Variance # 521 Mr. Sicard asked if the sign will be a1uminated during those 19 I cTo hours. Mr. Patrick answered that the sign will be a1uminated usually just in the evening hours. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if the sign would be turned off during the hours that the store is not in operation, is this so stipulated, between 12 midnight and 7 am. Mr. Patrick answered yes. Mr. Platt stated that the sign was attached to a time clock, the hours they are not operating the sign would be turned off. Mr. Fitzgerald asked the audience if there were any other appear- ance s. on this app1icat ion, Convenient Food Market, Variance #521. No response from the audience. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommended approval of this variance. The Warren County Planning Board in concurrence with the Town Planning Board recommends approval of this variance. The Beautification Committee has taken no action on this ap- plication as they see little room for beautification on these pre- mises. The Beautification Committee is concerned and have received complaints on the condition which they left their Dixon Road store. Mr. Fitzgerald asked the Board if there was a motion to take any action on this variance. Mr. Kurosaka moved that the Board approve the variance. Mr. Sicard seconded the motion. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there was any discussion. Mrs. Richardson opposed the variance. Mr. Fitz- gera1d abstained. The vote 3 to 1, a majority, variance approved. Variance # 521 20 I (I I The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD RECOMMENDS APPROVAL AS REASONABLE USE OF PROPERTY. Variance # 522 - John L. Haanen M-2 Zone East side Bay Road (Warren County Planning Board) Variance #522 is to construct a 48' by 60' addition with a 24' setback on front and 12' side setback. It is a shallow and narrow lot. The owner of the lot is John Kubricky & Son, Inc. It is presently zoned M-2. The concrete block building is used for an engineering office. The additional building is to be used for engineering and machine assembly. Mr. John Haanen, Haanen Engineering, appeared on this application. Mr. Haanen stated that his business is located at 253 Bay Street, a former cycle shop, and previous to that Jacob's was in there. Mr. Kubricky purchased this shop a few years ago. Mr. Haanen stated that his business has more or less outgrown the 12 hundred square feet that we are in and we either have to move or expand. In investigating the property using the property maps we feel that we can put the 28 hundred square foot building adjacent to the existing building. The present building has a 9 foot 6 set- back from the Delaware and Hudson property, the new building would have 12' in the bac~ presently very close to the center of the track. With the new street and sidewalk, from the old property line, the Variance # 522 21 1(-1 ""I ,/, new building would be 32' back and with the new property line it would be 24' ba c k. We would acquire the property adjacent to us, there is an old house on it. Mr. Haanen be lieves that is 30' from the property of Mr. and Mrs. Tubbs. Mr. Haanen presented a drawing of the proposed building to the Board. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Haanen if the building was basically block or brick. Mr. Haanen stated that they proposed either block or brick but he was thinking in terms of brick. Mr. Haanen (indicating on drawing) stated that they would like to take the marque off, put windows on the north side, this would remain white block, would probably carry the same window, on this side it would be block with block bond, like stucco. Mr. Haanen stated that he didn't know if the door would be here or in back, if they can maneuver a truck in back it would be good to have it in the back. Mr. Haanen stated that they do general engineering work and he notices in the paper from his experience that they always tie us up with the paper industry but we do a lot of commercial work like Duke's project and so forth. In addition, part of our business is to design machinery, but we found that our clients don't want the design, they want the machine. So we burn it off the machine and 50 forth, bring it in our shop, and we make the frames, paint Variance # 522 22 II) 3 and assemble and ship the machines off. We have in the last 4 years about 34 machines, part in the paper industry and part in the plastic industry; Hercules, Native Textiles, Union Camp. We have machines now more or less allover the country; California, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and now we have 2 going to England. We feel that we are in a machinery assembly business but is is more of a com- plicated engineer type. It really would not be a lot of trucks coming in and out creating noise, etc. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Haanen if they were doing any manufacturing as such. Mr. Haanen stated that they make their frames, etc. Mr. Kurosaka stated that that was something that would normally go out of a machine shop. Mr. Haanen agreed. Mr. Fitzgerald asked the audience if there was anyone interested in this application. Mr. Emmit Tubbs appeared in front of the Board on this application. Mr. Fitzgerald asked where Mr. Tubbs was located. Mr. Tubbs stated that he is rig~next door to where they are going to build, south of the side that Mr. Haanen is going to put the addition on. Mr. Tubbs stated that the building that is there now has a well and a spring which is running in that basement all the time and if he fills that in what is going to become of that water, Mr. Tubbs said that he has some of that water in his basement now. Mr. Tubbs asked Mr. Kubricky to put a drain in and drain it. Variance #522 23 I q L( Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Tubbs if he was talking about the existing house that is there now. Mr. Tubbs replied yes. Mr. Tubbs explained that Mr. Kubricky was pu to his house in June and I asked him what he was going to do about it. Mr. Kubricky said that he was going to do notþing, I'll flood you out. Mr. Tubbs stated that Mr. Kubricky wants his house and he doesn't believe that is the way any right businessman to approach. Mr. Tubbs only ask that proper drainage be put in and it could be run from here (indicating on the drawing) to the storn sewer. The storm sewer goes right by the house. Mr. Kurosaka asked where the storm sewer goes, into the brook? Mr. Tubbs replied that it goes into the brook. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Tubbs if the pipe in that storm drain goes right into that brook. Mr. Tubbs replied yes. Mr. Tubbs stated that this has been going on a long time. Mr. Tubbs (indicating on the drawing) says the brook is here and from here down to the railroad tracks there is suppose to be a drain in there. Mr. Kubricky has seen fit to fill that drain in and there is no drainage at all, all that water is just sitting out there at the railroad tracks. Mr. Tubbs stated that why that property was filled in he will never know. Mr. Kurosaka asked who owned the railroad property. Mrs. Rich- ardson answered that the D & H owned that property. Variance # 522 ':24 li'j Mr. Fitzgerald asked how Mr. Kubricky filled it in if the pro- perty belongs to the D & H. Mr. Cornwell asked if the Bay Road Reconstruction Project filled in any of the drain. Mr. Tubbs stated that he thought they might have filled that in when they had the traffic detour. He knows that in back of the house that is there now, the ski shop, it is all filled in. Mr. Tubbs stated thathe thinks the D & H is partially responsible too. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Tubbs is he is sure Mr. Kubricky filled it in, not Mr. Jacobs, the previous tenant. Mr. Tubbs stated that Mr. Jacobs 'never owned that place. Mr. Cornwell stated that Mr. Jacobs was a tenant there for a long time, Mr. Tubbs replied no, Ske llie, Skellie run it. Mr. Cornwell stated that Jacobs was there after Skellie and he developed the back yard quite a bit and I wonder if he filled it in. Mr. Tubbs stated that he thinks he did. As he said before, I think it was the people that had the ski shop. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Tubbs if he was not sure if it wa s Mr. Kubricky then. Mr. Tubbs stated that it was either Mr. Kubricky or the County that filled it in. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it was probably the County when they did the road. Mrs. Richardson asked the Board if they approved this variance Variance # 522 25 then they are adding to Mr. Tubbs' problem. J -¡ ~ Mr. Kurosaka stated that if the Board gets ready with railroad property they could do something about the spring Mr. Tubbs was talking about. Mr. Cornwell stated that it would be Mr. Haanen's best interest not to have the spring running into his own cellar. Mr. Haanen stated that he is not planning to have a cellar. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Haanen where he planned to exit the water to from under his slab. Mr. Haanen stated that Mr. Tubbs told him about this last week and that they would have to investi- gate and find out what is under there and how low the inwards are in the street to find out the drainage. Mr. Haanen thinks the water isn't too high, it is 2 to 3 feet down. Mr. Kurosaka stated that if the spring was to far below it draining it off would not do any good. Mr. Haanen stated that if the water is higher than the inward and we want to drain it out we can't do anything. "'c.f~D ~4...Q ~ Mr. Tubbs stated that about 3 years ago Mrs. ~F9l1~n had · fish in her cellar. Mr. Kurosaka asked how they got there. Mr. Tubbs replied from the brook and stream. Mr. Fitzgerald said that someone told him they went up the storm sewer. Mr. Cornwell asked if the drainage provisions of any building ~ ~. project are dealt with~he building inspector and isn't this beyond our control. Variance # 522 Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there was a high water table there. 26 I (f"J Mr. Tubbs did not know. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Board can specify that the building inspector inspect it and if there is a problem it should be corrected. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that there is an old and very poor liberal theory that anybody that makes improvements on their property which has the effect of causing water damage or any othe damage, primarily water damage, to another person's property, is liable to the full extent of the damage. This has been proven in many cases. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it was pretty hard to prove with the underground water tables. Mr. Fitzgerald said that if they stop up and existing spring or something like that he didn't think there would be any question. Mr. Kurosaka said that you would have to prove that that spring effects the next property. Mr.. SicardaskedMr.':I'.,-"bbs'if. tw had water in his . cellar now. ,Mr.. Tubbs said that the water is practically dried up now and the only time it comes in is when there is a rainstorm. Mr. Kurosaka asked how the water in the cellar was in the spring- time, does the water give you problems in the spring? Mr. Tubbs answered yes. Mr. Kurosaka stated that with the spring runoffs Mr. Tubbs has trouble. Mr. Tubbs stated that if they had a coµple of' daysoT rain then there would be a èoupleof inc,hes ·of water in their cellar. 'Mr. Kuro'saka ,asked Mr~' Tùbbs if he would always have water in his cellar when it is raining. Mr. Tubbs replied yes. Variance # 522 ?i7 198 Mr. Tubbs stated that the problem started about 7 or 8 years ago. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the question was if the problem is caused by the brook, does the brook fluctuate and cause this or what? Mr. Fitzgerald said that he had been involved in these situations and what you do to your property aggravates the problem that this gentleman is having he thinks there is a clear cut case of damages. Mr. Kurosaka said that you have to prove that it is aggravating, in this case you already have a water condition. Mr. Fitzgerald replies that if it gets any worse than it was before. Mr. Kurosaka states that then you have to take in water conditions, climatic conditions, '- water tables, height and everything else. Mr. Kurosaka thinks the Board should specify that the building inspector ascertain that there is a water problem and if it can be corrected let it be corrected. Mr. Fitzgerald told Mr. Kurosaka that he was passing the buck. Mr. Kurosaka replied that the Board had to pass the buck because they couldn't determine if there is a water condition or not, not with the information the Board has. Mr. Boynton states that as he a former construction man he can't see any reason why if Mr. Haanen or anyone else puts a slab, tears down a building and puts a slab on top of the ground and builds '-- a building, where it is going to aggravated the water table in that particular locality. If Mr. Haanen was going to dig a cellar it ............_,,-..,r Variance # 522 might aggravate the condition. 28 1(1(7 If he was going to fill in like Kubricky did it might aggravated it. If the culvert under the D & HRailroad are plugged he would say it would be up to the D & H to clear them out so the brook coming out of Mr. Eisenhart's pond would flow freely. But putting a slab on top of the ground certainly isn't going to aggravated a water problem with the next door neighbor's cellar and Mr. Tubbs has admitted that it was there 9 years ago. Mr. Tubbs stated that what Mr. Haanen was going to do is to fill in the cellar that is there now and he imagines there is at least a foot of water down there. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Tubbs how much water he got in his cellar when it rains! Mr. Tubbs stated that he keeps a pump running all '- the time so he only has about 2". Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Tubbs what happens if you turn the pump off and it doesn't rain, do you still get water in your cellar? Mr. Tubbs replied yes. Mr. Kurosaka stated that there was a high water table in that whole area and it runs 2 to 3 feet below ground in most places over '- there. Mr. Sicard stated thàt he thinks the point that they are try- ing to make is that if they take the building down, that with the exist- ing spring, they cap it off and the water comes up 4' in the cellar, it is strictly a case of aggravation for Mr. Tubbs. Mr. Kurosaka asked who would aggravate it. Mr. Sicard stated Variance # 522 29 :~) Oú that it would be quite obvious, that if they took the building down and put the slab in and the water goes up in Mr. Tubbs' cellar. Mr. Sicard thinks that it is up to this Board, at this point, in granting this variance, that possibly something should be done to take care of this spring before the slab gets down. Mr. Kurosaka stated that that is what he is saying, let the building inspector determine if something should be done and have it done. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that what they are talking about is possibly to have some sort of drainage. Mr. Kurosaka wanted to know how to drain it. He stated that the Board doesn't know what they got, what the conditions are, and the Board can't do it this way unless they make a study of it. Mr. Fitzgerald suggested that the Board table this variance until they do know. Mr, Kurosaka stated that he thought the building inspector should sit down with Mr. Haanen and determine if a dr~inage pro- blem does exist and then correct it. Mr. Boynton stated that he doesn't think it is the building inspector's problem at all. Mr. Boynton thinks they need an en- gineer, or Mr. Fred Austin, or the Highway Department, or possibly the Town would hire an'engineer. Mr. Boynton stated that the building inspector is not a surveyor, he doesn't know how high the level of the brook is, where you are going to drain it, how high Variance # 522 )0 JO'I the water table is, etc. Mr. Sicard stated that in his opinion that the burden rest upon the guy that is doing the building. Mr. Cornwell stated that he thinks the proper engineering of the building and all its environs is up to Mr. Haanen. Mr. Sicard agrees with Mr. Cornwell and states that Mr. Haanen is going to aggravate the condition no matter what he does just by reason of blocking up that much land and having the water drain into that brook along the railroad. Whether the burden rest on the railroad or Mr. Haanen, Mr. Sicard doesn't know. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Haanen if he saw any solution to the problem. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he was thinking the Board would approve it but they would make it on condition that you do not cause any water damage to your neighbors. Mr. Haanen stated that he thinks that only fair and what he would like to do is get a site and take the brook level and the level of water in the house next to us and take the level of water in Mr. Tubbs' house. If the water in that basement is higher than the brook than he will get rid of it too. Mr. Haanen stated that he plans to acquire the property. Mr. Tubbs also pointed out a septic tank and cesspool that is effecting their well. They can't drink the water. Mr. Kurosaka asked how far away from the well is the cess- pool. Mr. Tubbs stated that he didn't think it is even a lOO'. Mr. Sicard asked if city water ran down that street. stated that the town water does. d(J;< 31 Mr. Tubbs Variance # 522 Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Tubbs if he had town water. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that the Board d idn 't have any authori.ty to take any action as far as water pollution. This is something that you go to the Department of Health for. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommended approval. No comments. Warren County Planning Board recommends approval. No comment. Mr. Sicard made a motion that this variance, Variance #522, be approved subject to the conditions that we just discussed here; that the improvements not aggravate the existing water conditions. Motion seconded by Mrs. Richardson. The Beautification Committee reports that they wish to compli- ment this applicant for the small flower bed that he has maintained on the premises. In a screening of the new addition to the building we find no action should be taken. Mr. Cornwell stated that he was impressed by Mr. Haanen's com- ment that he would probably block bond the building which I think should be taken as a positive sign because that gets away from the cement block image and should be considered positive in his favor. Mr. Fitzgerald polled the Board for action in this case. The Board was all in favor. Variance # 522 ~.~ .)c3 The Board: RESOLVED: APPROVED PROVIDED THAT IMPROVEMENTS DO NOT AGGRAVATE THE EXISTING WATER AND DRAINAGE CONDITIONS IN THE AREA. Variance # 523 - Francis J. Antos C-2 Zone 690 Upper Glen Street (Warren County Planning Board) This application is for permission to erect an additional sign on premises known as "The Pub" located at 690 Upper Glen Street, Town of Queensbury, which sign is to have an exposure from the south only. Mr. Fitzgerald asked the audience if there was anyone here on behalf of this application. No response. Mr. Kurosaka moved that the Board table this variance, Variance #523, until next month. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that it should be tabled until next month or until the Board has an appearance from the applicant, if ever. Motion carried. Mr. Fitzgerald asked for a motion to dismiss. Mrs. Richardson made a motion that the meeting be adjourned. Seconded by Mr. Sicard. The meeting was adjourned at 9:05 P.M. ~/~/'1 . /~~cJ r· ary ..-