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1977-12-21 '" 0 if Official Minutes of the QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS held December 21. 1977 at 7:35 P.M. ,....~ There were present: Jack Fitzgerald, Chairman George Kurosaka Ted Turner Sjoerdge Richardson Charles Sicard Kirkham Cornwell being members of the Board. Guests: George Liapes Harold Boynton After making some corrections on pages 2 and 25 of the November minutes Mr. Sicard made a motion that the minutes be approved. This was seconded by Ted Turner. Carried. OLD BUSINESS: Variance # 519 - Henry Anable M-l Quaker Road (Warren County Planning Board) This application is to request a variance to permit the use of the premises for the sale of modular homes; the right to use one such modular home as a model home and to reside therein; the right to place modular homes on cement piers for their display; the right to add to existing sign a sign indicating such sale, such a sign to be within the overall size permitted by the ordinance. The applicant is Henry Anable, C/O Meat Shoppe, 728 Glen Street, Glens Falls, New York. The property is located across from the Garden Time Nursery on Quaker Road. It is a used car lot. Only a small portion of the premises is devoted to a used car lot. The applicant may obtain a greater revenue from the full Variance # 519 Page 2 ~oS use of the premises. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there was anyone in the audience here on behalf of the applicant. Mr. Gary Renaud appeared on behalf of the applicant. Mr. Renaud stated that at this time Mr. Anable would like to remove from the variance residency. Mr. Anable feels that he no longer needs this. At the time Mr. Anable applied for the variance he had a lot of theft but since then the police department stepped up their patrol of the premises. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Renaud if he was the attorney for the applicant. Mr. Renaud stated that he did repairs on mobile homes for Mr. Anable. Mr. Liapes stated that Mr. Anable was still ill. Mr. Anable stated that Mr. Anable's attorney was suppose to be here to speak on his behalf but he didn't show up. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if Mr. Anable is operating a used car lot on the premises. Mr. Renaud replied yes. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Renaud to point out, on the map he had for this application, the used car lot. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if Mr. Anable owned this property(indicating on the map)? Mr. Renaud replied yes and indicated where the blacktop stopped. Mr. Renaud stated that the right half of the building, the front half, would be used for used cars. The other side would be used for mobile homes. Variance # 519 Page 3 joG, Mr.Cornwellasked if Mr. Anable would require a sign, an additional sign? Mr. Renaud stated that Mr. Anable already has his permit for the sign, all he is going to do with it is add to the sign. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Renaud to clarify that Mr. Anable is removing the request for residency, the variance is a request to sell mobile homes in addition to the cars that are already being sold. Mr. Renaud replied yes. Mr. Cornwell asked if Mr. Anable had permission to add to the existing sign. Mr. Boynton replied that any business in the Town of Queensbury is allowed one free standing sign and one sign on the face of the building without a variance, with a permit. It is 50 square feet for the free standing sign and not less than 30 square feet. It is 15 feet from the property line but there are differences in how far back the building is. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Renaud if what they had down there at the present time is a mobile home. Mr. Renaud replied yes. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Renaud i.f he was asking for a permit to sell modular home s . Mr. Renaud answered yes. Mr. Sicard asked if the mobile home on the premises now is for sale. Mr. Renaud replied that the mobile home is there for repair. - Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Renaud if they were planning to repair Variance # 519 Page 4 ,}ð'7 mobile homes and sell modular homes. Mr. Renaud stated that they would be sell both mobile and modular homes. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Fitgera1d, Chairman, if the application for the variance reads that way (pertaining to selling both mobile and modular homes). Mr. Kurosaka stated that there is two kinds of modular homes; there is a modular home that has temporary wheels on it, that you wheel it to the site, take the wheels off of and put a foundation underneath; there is a mobile home that is modular that you wheel on the site, put a skirt around it, and also remove the wheels. Mr. Sicard stated that it is his understanding that there is a mobile home on the premises now. Mr. Renaud stated that he is correct. Mrs. Richardson pointed out that the variance application states ~'rnodular homes". Mr. Kurosaka stated that the difference between a modular home and a mobile home is the mobile home has the wheels permanently mounted on the building and a modular home they remove the wheels once they get the home on the site. Mr. Boynton stated that mobile homes are not allowed anywhere in the Town of Queensbury, occupied or unoccupied, on any parcèl of land, without a permit. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Boynton if he stipulates that the Variance # 519 Page 5 =~O[¡ words "modular" in the variance application means "mobile". Mr. Boynton replied no. Mr. Ftizgerald asked Mr. Boynton what the application is suppose to be for. Mr. Boynton stated that he understood from talking with Mr. Renaud,when he went down to ask him to remove the mobile home which was illegal at the present time, that he wanted to repair mobile homes for sale and nothing was mentioned to him at that time about modular homes even though the variance application does say "modular" . Mr. Fitzgerald stated that in his opinion the variance appli- cation should be adjourned until January and the application be corrected. Mr. Cornwell stated that the Board should also ask the applicant to be a little more specific about the density of whatever type of homes instead of approximately, if it is mobile homes there would be a lot more than three. Mr. Fitzgerald entertained a motion to adjourn this to the January meeting and ask this application form be properly amended. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he thought the building inspector would not charge Mr. Anable another fee, but to indicate on the application precisely what Mr. Anable intends and how many mobile or modular homes Mr. Anable would have on the premises. Mr. Kurosaka stated that this application has to be clarified as to modular homes, mobile homes; mobile home repairs, removing the resident requirements; in other words make out a new variance. Variance # 519 Page 6 :2..or The Board: RESOLVED: THIS VARIANCE TABLED TO JANUARY 18TH MEETING. APPLI- CANT TO SUBMIT REVISED APPLICATION STATING NUMBER OF UNITS. Variance # 520 - R. J. Grasse C-3 Zone Northway Plaza (Route 9) (Warren County Planning Board) This application is to request a variance from the Queensbury Sign Ordinance as it refers to maximum square footage for the business it advertises. Also to vary from the sign ordinance by locating the sign above the roof line. Mr. Fitzgerald asked the audience if there was anyone here appearing on behalf of the application. Mr. Kurosaka stated that this variance was tabled from last month due to the lack of the majority plus one. Mr. Ted Turner was not present at last month's meeting but at this meeting there is present six voting members. The Town Planning Board recommended approval of the variance. The Warren County Planning Board stated that by approving new signs it is conflicting with the new sign ord inance . Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Kurosaka if he wa s involved at all with the Northway Plaza. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Ca1e Development Corporation is one of his clients. Mr. Kurosaka had to abstain from voting on this application for a variance. Variance # 520 Page 7 ),/1) Mr. Fitzgerald stated that Mr. Grasse has purchased a hair- dressing salon, formerly operated by Mr. Walt, located in the Northway Plaza. Basically, what the Board is talking about is that the ordinance would allow the applicant a 33 square foot sign. In the record, Mr. Grasse indicated at the last meeting that that would not be sufficient, a 33 square foot sign. Mr. Fitzgerald read to the Board a letter from Attorney Joe Brennan to Mr. Liapes regarding this variance. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Liapes if this sign was more than a 33 square foot sign. Mr. Liapes replied no, it is a smaller sign and the only question is raising it higher, above the roof. Mr. Platt of the Signs of Progress and Mr. Grasse, owner of R. J. G's Hair Styles appeared before the Board. Mr. Platt stated that they are requesting to raise the sign just alittle bit higher as shown in the diagram (indicating on diagram presented to the Board). He pointed out three colors on the diagram; the large square, rectangle rather, blue, repre- sents the old Mr. Walt's sign which has been removed. This was 115 square feet. The smallest rectangle, orange, is the size sign that would be allowed under the present zoning ordinance. Mr. Platt stated that actually this isn't the correct size allowed under the ordinance because there is no size stated under shopping centers, shopping centers is left out of that part of the ordinance. The green rectangle represents the Variance # 520 Page 8 we would like to put up in the position we would like to put it in. It is a matter of raising the sign 2' higher than would be allowed by the ordinance. The ordinance stipulates that you can not raise a sign higher than the roof line of the building, that would drop the sign down about 2'. Mr. Platt stated that there were two problems as they see it. First of all, with these signs over here (indicating on diagram) is in that position now and as a matter of asthenics, drop the other sign down and it won't begin to match up to the legal sign that is up there, the sign that is up there at Dee's. The second problem is as you remember the location of Mr. Grasse's business there is a canopy that comes out, way out in the front(indicating on diagram) and his view of the sign is obstructed in that corner wh~ people are coming in, it is hard to read the' sign at that point. The third thing is that the higher up the sign, the easier it would be to be seen across the plaza. ), 1/ Mr. Platt stated that the big problem here is the fact that the fascia elevation drops down from the Big N over here ind icat ing on diagram) drops down and goes he re . If the fascia elevation didn't drop down there would be no problem at all, we would have the fa sc ia to put a sign up against and be within the framework of the law. Mr. Cornwell stated that one thing has come up since last month. Last month this was sort of a heated ,at.' fif'&tn 'we want to Variance # 520 Page 9 ,1/;) it adverse, type of thing. Referring of course to the other signs that were already above the roof. Since then the Big N, which is the highest sign, has filed bankruptcy. So maybe it won't be there much longer and there maybe a chance to change the whole roof line. Mr. Platt stated that he didn't bring up the facts about the signs adjacent because according to the law you can't do that. Mr. Platt asked the Board to read page 13, paragraph 4 of the Queensbury Sign Ordinance, there is no maximum size indicated on wall signs for shopping centers. Mr. Platt stated that therefore there is no problem on the size of the sign. Mr. Platt stated that Mr. Liapes has given him a permit to erect the sign but not above the roof line. Mr. Platt stated that the canopy that comes forward from Montgomery Wards blocks the view from around the corner. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that that goes to hardship and what the Board is talking about is whether this need to be approached from a truly variant because as the counsel's opinion is concerned; the counsel's opinion, this is in effect a truly nonconforming sign because it is within the same position as the former nonconforming sign and it is smaller. Mr. Fitzgerald stated it becomes, by definition,in his opinion, less nonconforming. Mrs. Richardson stated that it was a different owner. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he didn't think that makes a big difference. Mrs. Richardson asked how they can get rid of nonconforming --....-~-_._--- .--..---" ~ Variance # 520 Page 10 J(] signs then. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that there is a five year rule on that, that is the sign ordinance. Mrs. Richardson stated that Mr. Platt made a statement stating that he did not need a permit for the size and according to Mr. Liapes and I,you do. You can not exceed 25% of the area of the wall and that sign is 32. We figured that last month. A 62 square foot sign needs a variance for size and for placement above the roof. Mr. Platt stated that he does not agree with Mrs. Richardson and asked Mr. Fitzgerald, Chairman, for a determination on this because there is a discussion here on whether or not the size is allowed. Mrs. Richardson stated that Mr. Platt says for shopping centers, one wall sign. Mr. Platt replied yes. Mrs. Richardson stated that then you have to go back to wall signs and read what is allowed; you are not to exceed 25% of the area of the wall for the minimum area of )0 square feet sha 11 be allowed. Mr. Platt asked that, with due respect, you read down at the bottom, the last line. Mrs. Richardson stated that that was for any shopping center built further than a 100 square feet. Mr. Platt stated that the ordinance doesn't say that but he knows that it was intended to say that. Mr. Platt stated that this works against us in the same respect that it was an attemptof the sign committee to put something in there but actually it wasn't written up that way so therefore we can't rule on it. ,~ ----------. Variance # 520 Page 11 Jill' -- Mr. Platt asked Mr. Fitzgerald, Chatrman,to make a ruling. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that in his opinion there is a question. Before we refer this to the town attorney for an opinion as to his interpretation I would like to get an expression from the Board here as to the necessity of doing so. Mr. Sicard stated that he thinks the town attorney has given a decision here on this particular instance and he can't see why it won't apply to every instance in the same situation. Mr. Sicard fails to see that every situation such as this needs to have an opinion from the town attorney; I think this covers them all when you go from a conforming down to a lesser nonconforming sign. ~ Mr. Cornwell stated that this involves a change in ownership. Mr. Sicard stated that he doesn't think that should apply; in this particular case the town attorney has given his opinion for ,thIs particular situation,I think it applies to all situations in this area. Mr. Sicard thinks if you were to refer this particular situation back to the town attorney you will get a duplicate letter. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Fitzgerald if that was the way in which he interpretted it. Mr. Fitzgerald interpretted as being a very broad interpretation of the provisions and that it doesn't particu- larly hinge on whether it is the same owner or not because with the same ownership it is more than likely that the person would want to "'--- take a sign and cut it down smaller. .he might as well just keep it up and leave it the way it is. The only time that you would ever Variance # 520 Page 12, .;¿1.5 '- have a person investing money to reduce the size of a nonconforming sign would be to have someone who took over an existing operation and existing sign and wanted to make it fulfill his needs. For example, Participation took over the Slim's sign and made a great improvement over that revolving sign. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that if this ruling is interpretted as only where a person voluntarily decides that his sign is to big on top of his building and he thinks he better cut it down a nd pay Bob Platt money to put a new sign up there that is smaller, it doesn't make any sense. Mr. Cornwell stated that he didn't think it was the intention of the writers who wrote this thing that anybody who bought a new business would be able to do anything they wanted as long as it is 1" smaller than the owners before them on a noriconfdrming bases. I think the intention of the ordinance was that when ownership changed it was the chance to get rid of the sign, gradually bring the area into compliance, to get the town shaped up quicker. Mrs. Richardson agrees with Mr. Cornwell. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he didn't think that he had any alternative but to refer to the town attorney for clarification of this particular opinion based upon the facts that we are faced with here; mainly that there is a change of ownership and the new owner is voluntarily suggesting a reduction in a non- - "'--' conforming existing sign. Variance # 520 page 13 JIG, '",--, Mr. Sicard stated that he thinks that there also should be some consideration taken on the location of the sign, it is a drastic location, in that corner. Mr. Fitzgerald stated to Mr. Sicard that the Board can still take it up as a hardship variance, if nothing else, but what we are discussing here is the question of intention of the sign ordinance and I think we need guidance on this. It isn't strictly a question of hardship here, we can discuss this at a later date; it is the question of what was the intention of the ordinance in this particu- lar aspect and I think since we have two of the Board who, as I understand it, are taking the position that the intention of the ordinance change was to completely eliminate all nonconforming signs if you comØ in for"a variance ,then I think we 'ought to get a ruling on it and that the ruling will be billd;1;ltg'onall 'futul'& décisions. Mr. Cornwell stated that he would like to clarify his dissension here. It is his opinion that there could be a hardship situation on the size because of the obscured vision that Mr. Platt has pointed out. He doesn't see any hardship at all on the roof line because Montgomery Wards and the Big N have complied and he doesn't see why Mr. Grasse can't. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that the Board is not discussing hard- ship and are talking only about whether we need to go ,to the: '--- -- Variance # 520 Page 14 ~/1 determination of hardship. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that that is what the town attorney's opinion is, that I read, which was pre- sented to me and I r.\énre not read it before and I am interested in reading it but I do feel that it leaves open a very serious question. After we get an opinion, then we can talk about hard- ship, if there are any aspects of hardship. Mrs. Richardson stated that if the opinion is such, the way Mr. Fitzgerald reads it, what you are in effect saying is anyone that comes in and has reduced a nonconforming sign we automatically have to grant the variance and that doesn't make sense. Mrs. Richard- son stated that she helped write this ordinance and she knows the I '~ intent; it is as business changed hands and as these nonconforming signs came before us for new variances,we can get them more in con- formity. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he understands Mrs. Richardson to say that each time that a new application comes in, then you have a completely new opportunity to redo the entire economics in the sign and the sign might have been sold as part of the business. Mrs. Richardson stated that she thinks if we have this ten year thing, if it stays ten, at least we have some way of begin- ning to get rid of these signs. If changes to five, fine. Then they have only maybe four years to go. That hasn't been ap- -- proved yet by the town board. Mrs. RIchardson doesn't feel that Variance # 520 Page 15 c218 '-- just because the sign has been reduced in size but is still 'Way oversized means that 'We automatically have to grant approval. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he thought there is no point in discussing this variance further and let the Board refer to coun- sil and find out 'What he says that the intention 'Was of the sign ordinance. It is a matter of legal interpretation and then the Board can discuss at a later date whether there are any extenuating circumstances here that would require a different interpretation. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he didn't think the Board could make any determinations of 'What the intent of the sign ordinance is. The important thing is that the intention as evidence in 'Words is what is controlling here. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he is going to refer to the town attorney for an opinion. Mr. Fitzge'rald thinks this is the only fair way to approach it. We have no way of understanding, Mr. Fitzgerald was faced with this opinion from the first instance tonight and I think we ought to get clarification. Mr. Sicard stated that there seems to be another question as far as signs and shopping centers and wonders if the Board could get this clarified by the town attorney at the same time. Mr. Platt stated the he would be delighted to have thds matter clarified also. '"'--, "-- The Board: RESOLVED: TABLED TO JANUARY '18TH MEETING FOR LEGAL OPINION. Page 16 Variance # 523 - Francis J. Antos C-2 Zone 690 Glen Street (Warren County Planning Board) :2/1 - This variance is for permission to erect an additional sign on premises known as "The Pub" located at 690 Upper Glen Street. Town of Queensbury. which sign is to have an exposure from the south only. A variance from the Town of Queensbury Sign Ordinance which provides that there can be only one sign for the same business on the premises. That the ordinance creates a hardship on the applicant because of the narrowness of the lot. The distance from the front of the building from the edge of Route 9 makes it im- possible to place a sign facing south other than as proposed. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there was anyone on the Board that '- didn't know what"The Pub"looked like. Mr. Kurosaka stated that Mr. Antos wants a 4 by 8 sign to be perpendicular to the building so it is perpendicular to the line of traffic, on top of that canopy in front of the building. Mrs. Richardson asked if the sign would be double-faced. Mr. Antos replied yes. Mr. Cornwell asked if Mr. Antos was going to use the same framework that was there. Mr. Antos replied that there is no existing framework there. When the business next to "The Pub" called the "Sizzle Shack" was done away with. the framework was done away with. -- Mr. Antos stated that he has an existing sign that faces the north and .he would like to take that and double so that he would ..............."...........---.-----..-."...... ,_..../ Variance # 523 Page 17 :< ().. Ó "-- have northerly ' and southerly exposure and place it directly on the same roof line as my southerly exposure sign, so that I have ad- vertising both north and south, same size sign. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Antos if he would take the sign off the north if he could get the sign on the roof. Mr. Antos wanted to know what sign Mr. Kurosaka was talking about. There is a sign on the lower part of the building. Mr. Kurosaka asked if Mr. Antos would take that on off if he got the one on top of the roof. Mr. Antos stated yes, there would be no problem there. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Antos if he would take both northerly signs off. Mr. Antos stated that the one that is on top of the roof he would move out to the front of the building. I am going to use the existing northerly sign and put a face on the other side so it is visible to southerly and northerly traffic. It conforms to whatever ~the regulations are. Mr, Antos is proposing a V-shape. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Antos if he would take both of the signs that are north off and get one nice sign on the roof. Mr. Antos replied that is correct. Mrs. Richardson asked what the size is. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it is 32 s<luare feet, 4 by 8. Mr. Kurosaka stated that this variance was approved by both - '- planning boards. Variance # 523 Page 18 ;)~( The Queensbury Planning Board recommends approval of this variance with recommendation that two signs go on roof and all other signs be removed. Mr. Kurosaka stated that in his opinion one double-faced sign would look better two signs tacked on the building. It would create a better image too. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Boynton if that conforms with the set- back standards. Mr. Boynton stated that it is as far back as he can get it. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it looks like the front of that building is about 17 feet back off the highway. Mr. Boynton stated that there was originally a sign up there, '- shaped in a V-shape, with a metal framework,.. that said "Sizzle Shack", and he very nicely took it down when I asked him to. But he did leave the framework there and asked me if he could leave the frame- work there for future signs possibly. Mr. Antos did refurbish the outside very nicely and in doing that he had to take the frame- work down. So all he is doing is replacing the framework, ma ybe in a little different position, and just wants two sides for his pub, is that correct? Mr. Antos replied that that is true. Mr. Kurosaka asked it was ~'Th.e Pub" on both sides. Mr. Antos replied yes. Mr. Cornwell asked if he would rather have that way than to haveit flat on the building. Mr. Antos replied yes, yes he would. Variance # 523 Page 19 J d.. '- '-' Mr. Kurosaka stated that as a businessman he would have to agree with Mr. Antos, it gives further exposure than if it were flat on the building. Mr. Boynton stated that Mr. Antos had the sign flat on the building he is only allowed to stick it away from the building not over l5". Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there were any other appearances on this application. Mr. Cornwell stated that before the Board acts on the sign he would like the applicant to clarify the status of the shack that is built on the front over the door for which no building permit has been issued. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Antos if it is temporary. Mr. Antos replied yes. He applied for a building per- mit when he put it up because he could not put up a permanent en- trance way,he did conform and get a permit last year when he put it up and took it down and put it back up this year. Mr. Cornwell asked approximately how much of the year will it be up. Mr. Antos stated that it is there during the winter months. Mr. Cornwell stated that it will come down in the summer. Mr. Antos replied it would, just like he did last year. Mr. Cornwell stated that in this case Mr. Antos will have a small sign on the front door. Is there still a sign painted on the front door? Mr. Antos replied yes. .""-" ~ Variance # 523 Page 20 123 Mr. Cornwell asked if the sign on the front door was being '- considered in the total signs in this application. Mr. Antos stated that the sign has been there since he has been in business. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there were any further questions. Mr. Sicard møde a motion that Variance # 523. Francis J. Antos, be approved and it concurrs with both planning boards. Mr. Turner seconded the motion. Carried. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE IN CONCURRENCE WITH QUEENSBURY AND WARREN COUNTY PLANNING BOARDS WITH CONDITION THAT THE TWO EXISTING WALL SIGNS ON NORTH SIDE OF BUILDING BE REMOVED. NEW BUSINESS: "-- Variance # 524 - William Maille :Manor Drive R-5 Zone This variance is to place a laundromat in a preexisting non- conforming use. Building is still being used for general contractor business. A 3' by 4' wall sign also requested. This is located on Manor Drive. north of present Henry Sleight heavy equipment garage. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if anyone was appearing on this application. Mr. William Maille appeared. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Maille if he was taking part of an existing building or putting a new building in. Mr. Maille stated .-- that he would be using an existing building that is just a shop Variance #524. Page 21 d-;;¿'f now. '''-- Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Maille if he was talking about the building where Henry Sleight use to store his construction equip- ment. Mr. Boynton stated that it always has been to store equip- ment. ~ Mr. Kurosaka asked if the other big building was the old cement plant. Mr. Boynton replied yes, that is not included in this though. Mr. Kurosaka asked if ¥r. Maille is talking about the building that Henry Sleight use to keep his construction equipment in. Mr. Boynton replied yes, way back from the road. Mr. Boynton stated that Mr. Maille has purchased that pro- perty. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Maille if he had an architectural concept of how it would 1òok after he is finished. Mr. Maille stated that it was a cement block building and he is going to re- face it and paint it. Mr. Cornwell stated that it was a high garage. Mr. Maille stated that it was 14 feet. Mr. Boynton asked Mr. Maille what he is''.going'to;do with the outside of the building. Mr. Maille stated that the outside of the building is ~tucco ana that all he is going to do is paint it white agá in. Mr. Kurosaka stated that anything Mr. Maille does will be an improvement. Mr. Maille stated that he has already put a new roof ',-- Variance # 524 Page 22 c2JS- "'--- on the building. Mr. Cornwell stated that he has been up to the location. He" feels tha't the area}ne~ds' a 1aundrpmat but that the proper place for it is in the hamlet across the street on Aviation Road. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Maille if this would be a 24 hour operation. Mr. Maille stated that it would be open fr.om five in the morning to ten at night. Mr. Sicard asked if ~. Maille would close it all night. Mr. Maille stated that it would be closed all night. Mr. Boynton stated that Mr. Maille mentioned to him and Mr. Liapes that he was going to recycle all thè,water. Mr. Maille stated that he is going to recycle some of the water and reclaim it. Mr. Cornwell stated that what bothers him the most is not recyling the water but the riffraff that sometimes hang around this type of area. Mr. Sicard stated that there is not to much in this area. Mr. Cornwell asked how you could be sure. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he didn't think this was any of the Board's business. Mr. Cornwell stated that the Board is work±µg hard to keep the character of a residential area and putting a business in there that has vending ma:chines, people with cans outside, can mess up the area. Mr. Sicard stated that he thinks Mr. Maille will run this like he does his contracting business, in pretty good shape. He'thinks he ~i11 police this pretty well. - - Variance # 524 Pa ge 23 d~b Mr. Kurosaka stated that this is a matter of supervision of the operation. If it was a self-serve with nobody present it could get to be quite a mess. Mr. Maille stated that you are talking about a lot of money, at least $80,OOO.OO,standing there and somebody tears it up on you what are you going to do. Mr. Maille stated that you have to have somebody there to protect it. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he thought Mr. Cornwell is thinking about the old laundromat that was down on the corner of Broad and Hudson. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he doesn't think they have that sort of occupancy in this area. '- Mr. Boynton stated that there is one thing that you are getting rid of, the heavy equipment being started early in the morning in a residential area more or less and something that is need in this areacwill be replacing this. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there were any other appearances on this application - the proposed laundromat. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommends approval of this variance. This variance did not go before the Warren County Planning Board. Mr. Cornwell stated that in some towns laundromats are a part - of multiple housing projects, is there a ruling on that or no} Page 24 Variance # 524 :J., ::¿·7 in the Town of Queensbury? Mr. Boynton stated there wasn't that he knew of. Mr. Kurosaka stated that multiple housing projects, when they make them quite often, having designed some, usually put a laundro- mat in the building itself. But the type of ap~rtments they have here does not lend this to that type operation, as he recollects, the existing apartment buildings. If you take something like an eight or nine unit with two stories you could put a la und ry ròom in the bui ld ing and that is usually what they do. Mr. Cornwell stated that he is just aga inst having a free- - standing laundromat in a residential area. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Cornwell if he would prefer to have the heavy equipment garage. Mr. Kurosaka stated that this is actually another one of these for or less nonconforming opcupancies,if you want to look at it that way. Mr. Cornwell stated that in his opinion it is better than the junk that has been left there by the previous 'owner of the past twenty years. Mr. Maille stated that he has cleaned all of that up. ~ Mr. Harold Rist II appeared on this application. Mr. Rist asked if this laundromat was something that was going to be used only for the Manor Drive Apartment or for the general public. Mr. Maille replied that it is for the general public. Variance # 524 Page 25 ;):28 Mr. Rist asked if the laundromat was going to be manned. Mr. Maille stated that someone will be there every hour it is open and be resportsible for the general upkeep and appearance of the building. Mr. Rist asked that this would be a stipulation. Mr. Rist stated that the laundromat would be an improvement to what the building is right now, to open this establishment, as long as it is maintained. Mr. Cornwell stated that if this variance is approved than it obviously qualifies Mr. Maille for one freestanding sign and sign on the building, is that correct? We are also voting on a sign in a residential area. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that the '-' Board had voted on anything yet. Mrs. Richardson stated that the Board would only approve what they wanted to give him, it is an R-4 zone. That is all Mr. Maille is asking for is a wall sign. Mr. Kurosaka stated that there is a request in the variance for a 3' by 4' wall sign. Mr. Maille stated that that is all he wants. Mr. Boynton stated that he has, certain laws, regulations and rules that come under his jurisdiction,as well as the police,for policing property. Mr. Boynton stated that he doesn't think the Board is going to have any problems with him, he has business with '~ him for many, many years and he is very proud to say that he has Page 26 Variance # 524 Jr1C¡ never had one complaint on any enterprise that Mr. Maille has - undertaken. Mr. Sicard stated that he knows Mr. Maille very well and he certainly has done a wonderful job so far in everything that he has tackled. Mr. Sicard made a motion that Variance # 524 be approved and subject to the stipulations, the laundromat be attended at all times. Mr. Turner seconded the motion. The Beautification Committee stated that they would not con- sider this much opportunity to the beautification of property that is subject to this area. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the - Beautification Committee is not interested. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he did not agree with that, if you put a few plants around each side or something like that. Mr. Fitzgerald polled the Board. There were 3 in favor and 1 opposed. Mr. Cornwell was opposed. The Boa rd : RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE WITH STIPULATION THAT THERE MUST BE AN ATTENDANT DURING BUSINESS HOURS. THE BOARD FELT IT WAS MINIMUM FOR REASON- ABLE USE OF PROPERTY. THIS DECISION IN CONCUR- RENCE WITH QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD. Variance # 525 - Mahlon G. Morrison (Dunkin' Donuts) 684 Upper Glen Street (Warren County Planning Board) C-2 Zone "'-.- This variance is to place an addition to a free standing sign 2' by)'. Exceptional physical conditions in regard to building setback 90' from front property line. They are asking for a 2' Variance # 525 by)' soup sign attached to existing freestanding sign. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he had a picture in his file of what the sign would look like. It would be hung on the bottom of the existing sign. Mr. Boynton stated that the only difference between the sign they would be approving ánd the sign in the picture would Page 27 J30 '- be that the sign they would be approving would be the sign would be moved up tight against the existing sign. Mr. Cornwell asked how much of Mr. Morrison's area allowance is used up by the Dunkin' Donuts sign already. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the area is fifty square feet. Mr. Cornwell stated that then this sign is in addition to the fifty square feet. Mr. Boynton stated that that was right but it is more than 15' from the front property line. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the sign could be 65 square feet. Mr. Boynton stated that it was in between and there is nothing in the sign ordinance that gives you any leeway in between. Mr. Boynton stated that there are) letters from neighbors, there are pictures, and there is also a dissentation there. Mr. Morrison stated there is a letter from a neighbor that stated he was all for it. U Rent All, a neighbor out back, indicated to Mr. Morrison that they would be more than happy to have the sign. Mr. Morrison asked the Board if he could explain the problem. Variance # 525 pa ge 28 ))1 Mr. Morrison stated that the problem was that Dunkin' Donuts has gone into ' a soup line and no one associates soup with donuts. Mr. Morrison stated that he is so far back off the street that he can not advertise window signs effectively. Mr. Morrison stated that the soup has gone pretty well but when he goes into his local bank and the girl says to me " You have that soup down there?" or when I go up to Montgomery Wards or Sears and they ask me, you know that there is something wrong. Mr. Morrison stated that the company came out with this sign quite~ a few months ago. We went into this soup last February and the company came out with this sign about 5 months ago. Mr. Morrison stated that he didn't do anything about it at that time because he thought it was going to go good enough, but when I run into people asking me this I figured there is something wrong. Even with our radio, newspaper and television advertising there are still people who are not aware that we sell soup and Mr. Morrison can not effectively advertise this soup where I am located, so far off the road. Mr. Morrison states that that is the reason why he would like to have a sign hooked on. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommends approval of this variance. Warren County Planning Board approved this variance. '- The Beautification Committee says the premises are quite attractively landscaped and see nothing additional to granting the Variance # 525 Pa ge 29 ~34 sign requested. Carswell Motors has no objection to this sign. Helen Fisher Associates has no objection. Carswell Motor and Tires has no objection to this sign. The Brick Manor, Ray Wynn, has no objections. Mr. Morrison stated that Mr. Doty out back told him verbally that he had no objections. The more people that come in to Dunkin' Donuts the better off Mr. Doty is. Mr. Morrison stated that because of his location and the way the building is set up, he can't advertise. Mr. Boynton entered a letter into the record explaining the difference between the 15' setback and the 25' setback. There is no provisions in the sign ordinance giving anything in between for size of a sign. Mr. Kurosaka stated that you are allowed 50 square feet at 15, you 'are allowed 64 at 25. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if this was from the Town of Queensbury. Mr. Boynton replied yes, from the ordinance. Mr. Kurosaka stated that this is an opinion of the building department that the 6 square feet appears to be in line with the, between the 50 and 64, they adding 6 square feet seems to be within request because it is back further than the 15 and not 25, some- where in between. Mr. Cornwell stated that undoubtly following the course of past food events, the company will probably bring out salad after soup and then the1 would want a sign for salad and are you then going to have the whole menu on the street? Variance # 525 Page 30 (~,33 Mr. Morrison stated that he would have no more than Mc Donald's has. Mc Donald's has a little better set up than Dunkin' Donuts. They went into breakfast, etc., and they can advertise with their window signs which this Dunkin' Donuts can't. This same question was brought up at the Planning Board. If for some reason Mr. Morrison wants to come back, he would have to go through the same process. Mr. Morrison stated that right now nobody associates a donut shop with soup and he is just trying to get a correlation in here. Mr. Morrison stated that there is no telling where the company might go. He stated that he is an independent operator, I own that business, I pay the taxes not Dunkin' Donuts. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Morrison if he was a franchise owner. Mr. Morrison replied yes, he owns the place, he has 13 more years. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Morrison if he wanted to be identified with soup. Mr. Morrison replied yes. Mr. Cornwell stated that Jolly Tiger also sells donuts and he hopes that they don't want to come to the Board asking for a sign to sell donuts. Mr. Mor- rison stated that Jolly Tiger doesn't have to. Mr. Cornwell stated that Dunkin' Donuts does have to either if you have the proper application of your whole operation. Mr. Morrison stated that he did. The Jolly Tiger is a restaurant, someone going in there is not going in there for a donut, if they go in and the donut is there they might buy it. If someone còmes into Dunkin' Donuts they Variance # 525 Page 31 c23'i come in for coffee and a donut, they don't come in for the soup. Not unless it is local, people don't know that Dunkin' Donuts has soup, even with the advertising. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he wouldn't have known it unless he was in the store one time and he saw the signs inside the building. Mr. Morrison stated that this was the problem. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Morrison if this is something that is on a trial basis. Mr. Morrison replied no, he has $2,000.00 in the equipment down there, it is not on a trial basis. Mr. Morrison stated that the company tested this for quite a few months before he went into this. The company tested this out in the west and down south and it went over quite well. Mr. Morrison stated that serving soup has made a few extra hours for some of the 14 people he has èmployed by him. It is not much but he figures every little bit helps. It is not temporary. Mr. Morrison stated that in line with Mr. Sicard's question, the company is thinking of possibly going from soup into almost like a stew, well this stuff is almost like a stew anyways. If you can come in and eat two bowls of this stuff like the "Super Soup Special" you are dOing well because it it pretty heavy. The company is thinking of going into that. The company has already tried pies, have tried this and tried that. Mr. Morrison stated, that he is not looking to have a sign out --¡, .r-- Variance # 525 Page 32 ;(3S there coming right down through like some of the other signs he has seen around town. Mr. Morrison stated that it is just right now nobody thinks about Dunkin' Donuts with soup, they just don't. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Morrison if he forsees the day that it will be Morrison's Restaurant,that will also sell Dunkin Donuts. Mr. Morrison neplied n9, he is a franchise operator. Mr. Cornwell stated that it sometimes happens with these franchises, where the guy just drops the franchise. Mr. Kurosaka stated to Mr. Cornwell that he thought they would have to cross that bridge when they come to it. Mr. Cornwell stated that he thinks the Board is opening a can of worms with all the other fast food restaurants, starting to put the menus on the signs. Mr. Kurosaka stated that you have to consider each one individually) you can't make a pre-judgement on all of them. Mr. Morrison stated that most of the fast food restaurants have a better location than he does. If you come down Route 9 you go by Dunkin' Donuts before you see it. If Mr. Morrison didn't have the sign out there that he has got he would be in trouble. Mr. Morrison stated that July and August are his biggest months. The reason they are his biggest months is because of the tourist. Mr. Morrison stated that if he did not have that sign it would be dead. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Morrison how much of his business was ..-". '", Page 33 Variance # 52 5 ~ '3 Co local and ',how much was out-of-towners. Mr. Morrison stated that he would guess,at the present time,probably 80% of his customers are local. You know, like the local people that work in the garage, and stores, and they have gotten to know the place. Mr. Morrison stated that what he is trying to do with the sign is to get some of this transients going through. We have had people come in even' before I had the so:up and ask for ham and eggs or something like that, especially midnight to six in the morning. Mr. Cornwell stated that Friendly across the street doesn't have a list of their menu on their sign except to say it is Friendly Ice Creams. Mr. Morrison stated that Friendly's is a restaurant. Mr. Cornwe 11 stated that they have the same problem as Mr. Morrison. Mr. Morrison stated that they really don't have the same problem. Mr. Kurosaka stated that Friendly's right now is a well kn ow n franchise chain that is quite well known in New England. ~r. Cornwell stated that there is a Dunkin' Donuts next to St. Paul's Cathedral in London. Mr. Morrison stated that he didn't know that they had a Dunkin' Donuts over there. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there was anyone else in the audience that is appearing on behalf of this application. Mr. Liapes stated that as a neighbor, he does not object to the sign. Mrs. Richardson asked Mr. Morrison if the color scheme will be the same as the present sign. Mr. Morrison stated that it is a little different color scheme because the company is working towards Page 34 Variance # 525 ),31 going into this orangish color. Mr. Morrison showed Mrs. Richardson and the Board a picture of the present sign and the sign he is applying for. Mr. Boynton stated that the sign would look like that if the soup goes. Mr. Morrison stated that there is no question, the soup is gone. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Morrison that if they remodeled the whole sign tOëoinclude soup or to include limited menu restaurant or something, would you then take down the tack on sign.·Mr. Morvison stated that he didn't know how to answer that, that all he knows is that he has about $3,600.00 invested in the sign that is out there and it is going to take him quite a debt to take that down ,and put up a new one. The company has remodeled some, of their stores as they go aiong, you have old models and new models. Mr. Morrison's store is relatively a new store,? yearso1d~ but the company is going into different models all; the while. Mr. Morrison stated that he has 13 years yet to go and at the end of the 13 years if he wants to stay there and everything works out it will probably cost him $20,000.00 to do what Dunkin' Donuts wants him to do to stay in that building, remodel, new sign, etc. Mr. Turner made a motion that Variance # 525 be approved as it concurs with the Planning Boards. Mr. Sicard seconded the motion. Mr. Fitzgerald polled the Board. All were in favor except Mr. Cornwell. Mr. Cornwell was opposed. Page 35 Variance # 525 238 The Board: RES OL VED : THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE IN CONCURRENCE WITH QUEENS BURY AND WARREN COUNTY PLANNING BOARDS. Variance # 526 - John V. Cobb East side Rockhurst Road R-l Zone This application is to place an addition with 11 ft. front set- back in lieu of the required 30 ft. front setback and 16 ft. setback from Lake George shoreline. The lot is located on the east side of Rockhurst Road,adjoining on the south by Casa Bianca Marina docks. The lot is owned by John V. Cobbs, 7 Daisy Lane, Albany, New York. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that what the Board is talking about here is a camp that they are putting a rear 'end, no front end because this is the bay (indicating on drawing), addition on. It depends on your definition, it it toward the street. Mr. Philip Davies, contractor, appeared before the Board on this application. Mr. Kurosaka stated that looking at this picture, looking north, that addition is going on this side of the building (indicating on drawing) right here? Mr. Boynton stated that is right, south side of the building. It has been approved by the APA. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board approved this application. The Adirondack Park Agency approved this application. Mr. Sicard stated that hè saw this was on an angle here and would it be that just this corner be concerned with a setback? (indicating on drawing) Mr. Davies stated that as far as the encroachment of the Variance # 526 Page 36 ~39 property, you see it is to close to the road. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the whole building is to close to the road to start with. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the addition won't be anymore noncon- forming than the rest of the building. Mr. Davies replied that that is right. Mr. Davies pointed out (indicating on drawing) what the APA approved. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Davies if Mr. Cobb owned this property (indicating on drawing)? Mr. Davies stated that Mr. Cobb did own that property, he has one of the largest lots up there. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he has touched all bases for approval as far as other agencies are concerned and this appears to him to be one of those cases, what is it; unusual shape, lot location, and building requiring a variance for the minimum reasonable use of the property. Mr. Boynton stated that there was not change in septic systems. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Davies if the addition would be a living- room, bedroom, or what? Mr. Davies stated that it would be a bèd- room. They are taking the bath out of the house and putting a new, larger one in. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he couldn't see where else you could put an addition on this house. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Davies where the septic is located now. Variance # 526 Page 37 ,2 l.f 0 Mr. Davies stated that the septic is to the road side 'òf the exist- ing camp. Mr. Sicard stated that you can rest assured that the APA knows where it is. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the APA doesn't care if it is already in. they just won't allow you to put in a new one within 100' of the lake shore. Mr. Boynton stated that if Mr. Cobb puts in a new septic it will require approval from the Lake George Park Commission. Mr. Kurosaka stated the if Mr. Cobb puts in a new septic it says that ":pTovided that the new òutsidesewage system:is;at;deàst 100' from the mean high water mark. If he leaves the old septic alone he won't have to do anything. Mr~ Fitzgerald asked if there were any other appearances on this application. There were no other appearances except Mr. Philip Davie s. Mr. Sicard made a motion that Variance # 526. John Cobb. concurring with the Adirondack Park Agency's concern, reasonable use of the land. Mrs. Richardson seconded the motion. Carried. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE AS MINIMUM FOR REASONABLE USE OF PROPERTY. Variance # 527 - Daniel Torchetti Main Street and Ryan Avenue (Warren County Planning Board) R';'4 Zone This variance is to change a nonconforming use from a shoe repair shop to a used furniture sales - 3 existing signs to be Variance # 527 Page 38 c2'tl changed to one face sign 4 ft. by 8 ft. in an R-4 Zone. This is located at the southwest corner of Main Street and Ryan Avenuet right next to the Glens Falls Carpet Center. It used to be a gas sta t ion at one time and it used bobe Howard's Shoe Repair. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that there would be no structural change. The only thing the Board is talking about here is tbchange a prior nonconforming use to one use to another, the 3 existing signs to be changed to one face sign 4 ft. by 8 ft. in an R-4 Zone. Mr. Fitzgerald read the Board a òpinion letter from Joseph Brennan, Town Counsel. Mr. Fitzgerald also read a letter from the fire marshal pertaining to this variance. Mr. Torchetti stated that he was talking to Mr. Dobert and he has this 90-day solution that you put in the tanks and in the springtime we is going to take up the tanks. This solution will act on the gas fumes and there will be no fear of exp10siont etc. Mr. Boynton stated that the outside of the building has also been remo~and it looks a lot better than it did. Town of Queensbury Zoning Board approved this variance. Warren County Planning Board approved this variance. The Beautification Committee took no action on this variance. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Torchetti if he intended to do anything to the outside of the building. Mr. Torchetti stated that he has already started. Mr. Sicard asked if Mr. Torchetti planned to close up that Page 39 big front door or what is going to happen there. Mr. Torchetti ~¿t~ stated that he is blocking one off, not from the outside but from the inside, and just use the one door to bring things in and out of. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Torchetti if he was planning to keep his truck inside. Mr. Torchetti statèd that he is keeping his truck inside the building now but won't later when he has the building filled with furniture. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Torchetti if he was going to store anything outdoors. Mr. Torchetti replied no. Mr. Sicard asked what truck Mr. Torchetti was storing in the búilding. Mr. Torchetti stated that it was his own pickup. Mr. Kurosaka stated that his equipment is stored over on Sherman Avenue. ~r. Kurosaka stated that he was glad to see the building being put to good use. Mrs. Richardson asked Mr. Torchetti where he was going to put the sign. Mr. Torchetti indicated on the drawing where he is going to put the sign. Mr. Torchetti stated that the sign was going right against the building. Mrs. Richardson stated that the line of the roof can't be changed, which if the sign protrudes what will you do? Mr. Torchetti explained to Mrs. Richardson what he would do by indicating to the drawing ,the Board has for this application. Mr. Sicard made a motion that Variance # 527, Daniel Torchetti, be approved concurring with the Planning Boards, stipulating the Page 40 c17'3 location of the sign and also that the building should be completed within a reasonable time. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that it was not clear in his mind about the sign. Mr. Sicard questioned the location of the sign. Mr. Kurosaka stated that if Mr. Torchetti put the sign where the old existing sign was,he doesn't think there will be any objection, would there? Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Torchetti if a 4 by 8 would be agreeable to him. Mr. Torchetti stated that he was going to change the sign because of what Mrs. Richardson said. Mr. Turner seconded the motion made by Mr. Sicard. Carried. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE IN CONCURRENCE WITH QUEENSBURY AND WARREN COUNTY PLANNING BOARDS. NEW SIGN TO BE PLACED IN SAME LOCATION AS OLD 4' x 8' SIGN ON FRONT OF BUILDING. Variance # 528 - DeSantis Enterprises, Inc. (Paul Cushing Associates) 113 Aviation Road R-4 Zone Mr. Paul Cushing appeared on behalf of this application. This variance is to enlarge an existing nonconforming building by not more than 50% of its present size. Mr. Carl DeSantis, 113 Aviation Road,would like to expand his office at that address. The building was built as a frame house and has been used as Mr. DeSantis's office since 1967. Mr. DeSantis stated that he bought the building as a home, design- ed as a home, so that it would not be conspicuous with the neighbor- hood. It is a Northern Home. Page 41 Variance # 52$ d,LfLr Mr. Cushing stated that the Zoning Ordinance provides that an existing nonconforming uses can be expanded to 50% subject to the approval of the Planning Board and the Zoning Board. Mr. Cushing stated that the Planning Board has given us their blessing with this addition. The addition is 58' long and 12' deep,which is less than half of the existing structure, which is 62' by 2$'. A plotpl~n was submitted and a set of floor plans and elevations. The addition is on the north side of the present structure which is the rear of the building. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Board was primarily interested in the size ,not architecture and having worked with Mr. Cushing before he knows that Mr. Cushing's taste is good. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there were any other appearance on this application. Mr. Harold Rist,II appeared on bèhalf:oi' this application. Mr. Cornwell asked if the purpose of this addition was to give more adequate working space for people that are there or to employ more people. Mr. Cushing stated that the addition would primarily give the people that are working there now more adequate working space plus storage of records. As you know Mr. DeSantis has been expanding and has a big enterprise. Mr. Cushing stated that there would be no change in the parking, no change in the sewage ,disposal, nò ,change ',in the front,of':the 1:Hl!.ldinl. ·and>l\Ð!,.changei1'1 the': sign. Mr. Rist was satisfied with the information he acquired from Mr. Cushing, Mr. DeSantis and the Board. Variance # 528 Page 42 ~~ Mr. Fitzgerald asked the audience if there were any other appearances on this application. The Beautification Committee stated that even though the premise is used for commercial use in a residential zone, the building looks like a house and is landscaped like a house and there is no reason to believe that an addition; which we understand is subject to a variance, will change general appearance as far as landscaping is concerned. Therefore the Beautification Committee is taking no action on this variance. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommends approval of this variance. Mr. Boynton stated that this house was originally built so that if Mr. DeSantis did expand or move it could be changed into a dwelling with the least amount of cost. Mrs. Richardson made a motion to approve Variance # 528, DeSantis Enterprises, Inc. Mr. Sicard seconded the motion. Carried. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE IN CONFORMITY WITH QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD. Variance # 529 - Clarence Lazure (Green Construction Co.) Green Street (Warren County Planning Board) M-2 Zone This variance is to place a two car garage in an M-2 Zone with 15 ft. front setback in lieu of the required 50 ft. front setback. Mr. Ronald Green, representing Green Construction, appeared on behalf of this application. Page 43 Variance # 529 c2 L.j-ft; Mr. Fitzgerald asked hwere Green Street was. Mr. Boynton stated that it was right in back of Jeff's Grill. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that this was down by Flintkote. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. Green if there was any other building on the property. Mr. Green stated that Jeff's Grill was the only thing on the property. There is a big field there and the field runs from Jeff's Grill to Taylor Welding, Mr. Green be- lieves. Mr, Fitzgerald asked Mr. Green if he lived next door to Jeff's Grill. Mr. Green stated that he did not, he is building the garage. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Green who was going to occupy the garage. Mr. Green stated that Clarence Lazure would be occupying the garage. Mr. Lazure lives next door, in the house next door to Jeff's Grill, on Green Street. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Green if Mr. Lazure needed this garage for his own personal use. Mr. Green stated that Mr. Lazure has just bought a new Mark IV or something and the cement dust is taking the paint off. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Green if Mr. Lazure lives in the building next door to Jeff's Grill. Mr. Green stated that Mr. Lazure just bought the' house right behind Jeff's. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Green if Mr. Lazure Just wanted this garage as part of his residence. Mr. Fitzgerald asked Mr. Green "" Page 44 Variance # 529 JLf7 if Mr. Lazure is going -to use this garage for any commercial purposes. Mr. Green replied no. Mr. Lazure just wants this garage to save his car from cement dust. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommends approval of this variance. The Beautification Committe'e stated that they understand this variance is asking for setback lines in a t~o car garage and have taken no action on this application. The Warren County Planning Board approved this variance. Mr. Sicard stated that the diagram does not show any other buildings on the lot. Mr. Sicard asked Mr. Green if there were any other buildings close by that this could be moved either way back or anything. Mr. Green státed that he did not know, it is his brother's job. Mr. Kurosaka asked where Jeff's Grill is in reference to that. Mr. Boynton stated that the grill is out on Warren Street but he doesn't get anything from the diagram either. Mr. Sicard stated that he would like to know where the house is and why the garagecan't be pushed. back. Mrs. Richardson asked if it'would be reasonable to ask for a 30' setback instead of 15'. Mr. Green stated that he thinks that would push the garage away from the house quite aways. Mr. Sicard stated that the house is here (indicating on diagram) and stated that Mr. Lazure could push it toward the house. . . . lation to the Mr. Sicard asked where the bUlldlngs were ln re Variance # 529 Page 45 :¿ y-'t garage. Mr. Green pointed out where the garage would be, where the grill is, and where the house is on the diagram. The house sits right behind the grill. Green Street runs right between the house and the garage. Mr. Kurosaka stated that Mr. Lazure is going to have to walk âcross the street from his house to his garage. Mrs. Richardson stated that a 15' setback isn't much, the garage is sitting right on the road. Mr. Green stated that of course there 13nothing¡'on this road excepþthishouse either. Mr. Turner asked if the garage is going in the same location that St. John's house burnt down. Mr. Green replied no, it would be directly across the road from that house. Mr. Green asked the Board if they were familiar with Jeff';s Grill' at all. Mr. Green (indicating to the diagram) stated that Jeff's sits here, Green Street runs this side of it, Clarence Lazure's house here, and the garage is going to be tikeat the back of the parking lot off Jeff's Grill. Mr. Cornwell asked how many other existing buildings are on the street. Mr. Boynton stated just one. Mr. Boynton asked if that street is a dead end. Mr. Green stated that the street goes dead end then it comes out by Taylor Welding. There is a house down by Taylor Welding. Mr. Boynton stated that it is dead end after it goes by there. It is just a little alleyway. Page 46 Variance # 529 ;) Lf c¡ Mr. Kurosaka stated that the garage is not drawn to scale in the d1agram,submitted to the Board. Mr. Fitzgerald asked if there were anymore questions about this variance. Mr. Sicard stated that he thought that anything they do' in that areawou1:d'certainly'bean improvement. This area is not an excellent area and new construction down there would certainly be an improvement. Mr. Cornwell made a motion that V&riance # 529, Clarence Lazure, be approved on grounds of reasonable use of the property and it conforms with the two planning boards. Mr. Turner seconded the motion. Carried. The Board: RESOLVES: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE ON CONCURRENCE WITH QUEENSBURY AND WARREN COUNTY PLANNING BOARDS AND AS MINIMUM FOR REASONABLE USE OF PROPERTY. Variance # 530 - Mobil Oil Corporation (2 signs) Route 9 and Aviation Road (Warren County Planning Board) C-2 Zone This is an application, Mobil Oil'Corporation, for two free- standing signs in C-2 District, Sign Ordinance permits one. Mr. Philip McIntire appeared on behalf of this application. Mr. McIntire stated that the first ôf two variance applications has to do with two freestanding. Mr. McIntire presented a plot plan of the station to the Board. Mr. McIntire stated that the Mobil station presently has two freestanding signs here and here (indicating on the plot plan) Variance # 530 Page 47 c250 Mr. McIntire stated that Mobil Oil is changing this station into a self-service.station. Mr. McIntire stated that the sign request is that Mobil Oil needs to replace these signs with lettering and the problem being if they were simply changing the lettering they won't need a variance but in the process of changing from simply"Mobil"to "Mobil Self-Serve"the signs will be increased by 2' in depth, the sign itself. Mr. McIntire stated that the size of each sign still conforms square footage wise with the ordinance. It is not a size variance they are asking for. ilit is that the signs that are here now, 2 freestanding, be allowed to remain and be replaced with 2 signs which say not simply "Mobil" as they do now,but "MotilSelf-Serve" (indicating on picture). Mr. McIntire stated that the square footage of the present sign is 29.41 square feet. The proposed sign with the' additional size would be 45.82 square feet. It is an additional 2' to add the word "Self-Serve". The overall height of the sign will remain the same. Mr. Kurosaka asked if the sign was still going to be 1$" off' the line. Mr. McIntire replied yes. Mr. McIntire stated that the base of the signs is still going to be the way they are here. The poles, everything, are going to be the way they are. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. McIntire if'he"'was here because there Page 48 Variance # 530 ~ 5' / are 2 signs instead of 1. Mr. McIntire stated that that was right. Mr. Boynton stated that the old ordinance use to read that freestanding signs for gas stations be allowed 15' from the property lines, but now it has been changed to 15' for freestanding signs but it also says that gas stations should be allowed only the word "Mobil" or "Exon" or "Gulf" or whatever. Mr. Boynton stated that he doesn't quite understand what Mr. McIntire is asking for here, unless it is extra lettering and a little larger sign, which still conforms he guesses. Mr. McIntire stated that the size does conform. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it is still within the 50 square feet and he is questioning why the variance application is coming before the Board. Mr. McIntire and Mrs. Richardson stated that Mobil wanted 2 signs instead of 1~ Mr. McIntire stated that it was the same sign that Mobil put up next to the Municipal Center which they required only a permit for in that situation. Mr. Kurosaka asked if Mobil had 2 existing poles and all they wanted to do is to replace 2 existing signs. MR. McIntire replied yes. Mobil just wants to change the copy of the signs and make them larger. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the question before the Board is will the Board allow Mobil the second sign. Mr. McIntire stated that that is correct. Variance # 530 Page 49 ;¿.~~ Mr. McIntire presented the Board with a picture of the station with the present sign that says simply "Mobil". Mr. Kurosaka stated that he thought the Sign Ordinance says that you can put identification aµd products or service provided; self- service is a service provided. Mr. Kurosaka stated that Mobil is here before the Board basically because they want 2 signs instead of 1. Mr. McIntire stated that the alternative would be a sign some- where out here (indicating to picture) in the apex of the triangle. This would be a hardship for Mobil and frankly Mr. McIntire thinks it would be a greater congestion to that intersection. Mrs. Richardson asked Mr. McIntire what the present height of the signs were. Mr. McIntire stated that they were 14' and the ordinance is 25'. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the sign was far enough back so that it doesn't interfer with anybody's vision. Mr. McIntire stated that that was correct. Mr. McIntire presented a picture of the Mobil station from a view coming down Route 9 and stated. that there is a Mobil sign there he knows but he can't even find it in the picture. Mr. McIntire stated that Mobil is not contemplating making the signs revolving, flashing or anything else. Mr. McIntire stated that he frankly feels that, being acquainted with sign planning and drafting the ordinance for the City of Glens Variance # 530 Page 50 c:1 5:3 Falls, if you have to live with signs, 2 signs back here (indicating on picture),even though they are asking for making them 2' deeper, are better than a sign out here (indicating on picture), which we all know you don't heed anything more on that intersection. On the other hand, without that, they do need something~ Mr. McIntire stated that the ordinance does allow for a corner building having one sign on each side, but still only one. This Mobil station has a front sign and a side sign on the building. Mr. Sicard asked if there would be any change in the illumination of these signs. Mr. McIntire replied no. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. McIntire that in connection with the other variance that you requested, is there any signs connected with that or will any of the present self-service signs that are tackled up there come down if you get this variance. Mr. Kurosaka stated they are talking about the 2 self-service signs on the corner of the building. Mr. McIntire stated that those signs would stay. Those signs are price ads, now that is again price signs, self-serve signs, The signs that are there, you are talking about Grandfather Clause, they would be subject to the Grandfather Clause or whatever. The problem with those signs is that the Town has not yet wrestled with how they are going to deal with price signs. Mr. Cornwell stated that some of those self-service signs have appeared since the sign ordinance. Mr. McIntire replied no. Variance # 530 Page 51 :1Stj Mr. Cornwell stated that the signs were not there during the 1973 gas shortage and then they came back when gas became abundant. Mr. McIntire stated that Mobil wènt through getting permits for those signs. Mr. Cornwell asked if those signs were down for awhile. Mr. McIntire stated that hewasn' t aware of the signs being down. Mr. Cornwell stated that the station was semi-self-service for awhile then the signs were taken down and they stopped self;,;.service when the gas shortage was in effect. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that Mobil wanted self-service signs on the pumps and'the Board turned them down. Mr. Kurosaka stated that Mobil put the signs on the building. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr. McIntire if he wanted to leave the signs on the building too. Mr. McIntire replied yes, Mobil wants to leave those signs alone. Mr. Cornwell stated that Mobil didn't want the signs on the canopies. Mr. McIntire stated no, there are no. signs on the canopy at all. Mr. Cornwell stated that most people do have the signs on the canopies and Mobil is not going to want to do that too? Mr. McIntire replied no. Mr. Kurosaka stated that you can't do that because then you would be in traffic, you just can't do that. Mr. McIntire stated that the overa II plan will be that there will be a sign up replacing what says "Mobil" with "Snack Shop" and over rhere (indicating on picture) on the bay what says "Mobil Service" Page 52 Variance # 530 ;¿Ç;6- Will now say "Self Repal'rlt. Mr Kurosaka tat d th t M b'l' , . 5 e a 0 1 15 gOlng to remove the ItMobil Service" sign and put up a "Mobil Self Repair" sign, the same size sign. Mr. McIntire stated the new signs would be actually smaller. Mr. Cornwell asked if the snack shop usage was going to be the subject of another application. Mr. McIntire stated no because that sign is conforming in all which requires a permit. Mr. Kurosaka asked if that was a conforming wall sign. Mr. McIntire replied yes. Mr. Kurosaka stated that that sign has nothing to do with a variance, Mobil is allowed that sign. Mr. McIntire stated that he has discussed with the most immediate neighbor, Albany Savings Bank, this whole project and especially the canopy. Mr. McIntire presented a letter,from Albany Savings Bank addressed to Mr. McIntire,in reply to his inquiry relative to proposa 1 Mobil Oil Corporation'sVto erect a sizable umbrella canopy over the pump area and the corresponding variance requirements necessary for such work. Albany Savings Bank stated that they have no objections. Their decision is based on the review of materials submitted by Mr. McIntire's office together with a physical on site inspection by Albany Savings Bank's architect, Mr. Paul Cushing. This letter was written by Mr. Charles Schwenke, Assistant Vice President of the Queensbury Office of the Albany Savings Bank. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommended approval of this variance. Variance # 530 Page 53 0( 5-r;, The Warren County Planning Board recommends approval of' this variance. The Beautification Committee stated that this is one of the finest landscaped service stations in the area with expensive planting. The Beautification Committee stated that they understood that Peter Brilling no longer operates this station but when he did he maintained in fine shape. They do not expect other operators to do as fine a job, but if ordinary maintenance is given to the property it should remain attractive. The committee does not feel that special beautification requirements are necessary in connection with these 2 variance applications, Variance # 530 and Variance # 531. Mr. Cornwell, referring to a picture Mr. McIntire submitted to the Board, stated that the Mobil sign in the picture is obscured by the highway sign. Mr. McIntire stated that he thinks that may be the case because he knows that there is a sign there, he has seen it. Mr. McIntire stated that the proposed sign is not going to be any higher than the present sign. Mr. Cornwell stated that his inspection of the premises would have indicated putting the sign further back would increase Mobil's visibility and it would be less cluttery to the road. Mr. Cornwell stated that he can't see it and that Mr. McIntire would probably come in again for a variance wanting the sign to be higher. Mr. McIntire stated that he guaranteed he would not come in for another variance. Mr. McIntire stated the Mobil has already gotten all their Variance # 530 Page 54 J~? electrical connections and foundation and none of these are go :0 ing to be replaced, not even the pole is going to be replaced. Mr. Cornwell stated that you have to get back 600 yards before you begin, to see the sign or closer. Mr. McIntire stated that he has come down by there and you can see the sign and he can't understand that. Mr. Cornwell stated that the pictures have a funny perspective because they are done with a long focus lense. Mr. Fitzgerald asked the àudience if there were any other appearances on this application, Variance # 530. Mrs. Richardson stated that she knows New York State provides that self-service pumps can be designated with signs. She stated that she is looking at all the other gas stations that have gone self-service and asked where are we going, to get it up self-service, big freestanding signs? Mr. Fitzgerald stated that you can"be sure that everyone is going to do the same thing. Mr. McIntire stated that he thinks self-service is obviously a èoming thing, if it is not here already. Mr. Kurosaka stated that self-repair is an entitelynew concepp. Mr. McIntire stated that Mobil is not allowed a separate sign on the pump or anything else under the ordinance which says "self-serve" right now. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the self-service signs are on thebuild- ing right now because the Board won't let Mobil put the signs on the pumps. Variance # 530 Page 55 :2 .s-J Mrs. Richardson stated that she was talking about the signs required by state law. Mr. Boynton stated the Govenor Carey passed a law. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Board has a recommendation to the Queensbury Town Boardt to the minimum size. Mrs. Richardson stated that a lot of gas stations have these signs to designate that they are self-service. Mr. Cornwell stated that gas stations are µsing bigger signs now than they should be using. Mr. Sicard stated that the main thing that could happen is if everybody could require the same identical thing. Mr. Cornwell asked if the Board was going to grandfathe'r a big self-service sign today and stick that other guys with a tiny one. Mr. Fitzgerald replied no, that the Board is going to have to set a precedence for the entire town. Mr. McIntire stated that he would mildy object to Mr. Corn- well calling the proposed sign a big self-serving sign. The size is conforming. Mr. Cornwell stated that he foresees that when all the self- service gas stationsget their signs up, the guy that doesn't have self-service is going to cry "Look, we give service!". Mr. Kurosaka and Mr. McIntire stated that he is entitled to it if he conforms to the size of the sign. Mr. Cornwell stated that that does conform with the name of the product and the service, brief description of the services rendered and he doesn't think the Board can tell anyone exactly Page 56 Variance # 530 ;2S-ý"' what they can say on the sign. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Board is coming to the point where they are going to have to allow them to put price on the sign and there is nothing they can do. Mr. Cornwell stated that what he is worried about is the little satellite signs that are appearing all around the bays that are getting bigger and bigger, with the self-service; stop your engines in tiny print; and the price or the gas getting bigger and bigger than the state requires. Mr. Kurosaka stated there is a recommendation from the joint sign committee for that recommended sign to be the minimum required by the state, I foot square. The Board can't do anything until that is acted on so there is nothing you can do about it. Mr. Fitzgerald abstained from voting on this variance because he has some personally $trong feelings on this variance~ Mr. Fitzgerald stated that there was not evidence on the part of the applicant willing to remove the existing signs on the buildings and they are asking for additional signs. Mr. McIntire stated that the signs that are presently there are allowed by the ordinance and they require a permit which Mobil has applied for. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that Mobil could leave those signs there as is. Mr. McIntire stated that he didn't understand what those signs have to do with this application. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that they were talking only on the view of good faith. Mobil put the signs on the building only because the Board would not allow Now if Mobil Oil them to put the sélfwservice signs on the pumps. Variance # 530 Pa ge 57 ~ foo came in and said alright we would like to remove those signs and we would like to put them on the signs, under the circumstance Mr. Fitzgerald thinks he would be a lot more sympathic. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that Mr. McIntire is saying that Mobil wants to leave up the existing signs and they want more. Mr. McIntire stated that he didn't think that the ordinance provides for the narrative that is put on the sign, assuming it is not offensive to public taste. ~~. Fitzgerald stated that he didn't think it was a question of that but it is a question of good faith. Mr. kurosaka stated that he is quite certain that when everybody goes to those 4-sided signs that say turn off the switch, no smoking, etc., self-service cubes, they will take them out of the buildings and put them underneath the canopies. Mrs. Richardson stated that they are also going to have 2 big freestanding signs that say "Self-Service". Mr. Kurosaka stated that there is nothing in the ordinance that prevents this. The ordinance says that you can àdvertise product or service rendered. Mr. Cornwell stated that this Mobil station is going to have a snack bar too. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it has to come within the 50 square feet though. Mr. Kurosaka made a motion to approve this variance, Variance # 530, Mobil Oil Corporation. Page 58 Variance # 530 «, G! c>il Mr. McIntire asked Mr. Fitzgerald what the objection is. Is the objection that Mobil is using the word "Self-Serve" to often. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that in his own personal opinion it is greedy. Mobil went ahead and put the self-service signs on the building when the Board would not approve the signs being put on the islands. Now you go ahead and put them on the building, and if you had said to us we 11 alright we are going to remove those signs from the build ing and we would like to put them in the signs now. But what you are sa y ing is we like the signs on the buildine: and we like to proliferate and we want to put them on the new signs now and enlarge the signs within the permitted amount. Mr. McIntire stated that he would stipulate, if you want to make this a condition, and he thinks he can speak for Mobil; the only other self-serve sign are the ones up here (indicating on pic- ture), the 2 in the corner. Mr. McIntire stated that he can't see why if Mobil has self-serve out here (indicating on picture) that they would also want them down there. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. McIntire if they would have no objection in taking them down. He thinks that would solve their whole problem. Mr. McIntire stated that Mobil has price signs there(indicating on picture) and he doesn't think that Mobil will want to move the price signs be~ause no other station in town has removed their price signs. That would somewhat be defeating the purpose. Mr. Kurosaka stated to Mr. McIntire that if he could get those 2 signs dOwn off the building and they pass this thing for the self- Variance # 530 Page 59 c;>l (0 ~ service, he has it made anyway. Mr. McIntire stated that these 2 signs out here (indicating on picture) that have the price on them also have also have the words. Mrs. Richardson asked if the 2 freestanding signs that Mobil has now predate zoning. Mr. Kurosaka replied no. Mrs. Richardson asked if Mobil got a variance for the 2 signs. Mr. McIntire replied no. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it was permissible under the old ordinance, they could have 2 identification signs. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that there was no station there prior to zoning. The Board approved the location and Mr. Sicard has some remembrances on what conditiòns we läid upon the approval of that originally. Several years latèr Mobile came along and ask to put these self-service indications on the pumps. This is after the Board had approved the station at this location. This is not pre-zoning at all. This is all subject to post-zoning. Mrs. Richardson stated that what she is wondering about is why 2 freestanding signs. Mrs. Richardson stated that under the present sign ordinance, businesses are allowed 1 freestanding sign. Now they are asking us to increase the size of something that a new business can't have. Mrs. Richardson stated that Mob i 1 is going from 30 s qua re feet to almost 46 square feet. Mr. Kurosaka stated that 50 s qua re feet is allowed within 15' when there is only 1 sign. Mrs. Richardson stated that she knew that but a business going in today would only be allowed one freestanding sign. Variance # 530 Page 60 ~0J Mr. McIntire suggested that a business going in this location could very well be before this board asking for a variance, he thinks they probably would be. Mr. McIntire stated that he thinks Mobil's alternative would be to put the sign out here (indicating on picture), which they can do. Mr. Kurosaka stated that if they did that then they would be adding to more congestion, if you put the sign right directly in front of it, a single sign in the middle. Mr. Cornwell asked Mr.McIntire how much footage allowance have you used up on the signs, other than the freestanding signs, the building signs, how much have you used up including the super large oversized price signs. It is all used up, isn't is? Mr. McIntire stated that the on building' signs tha t Mobil is proposing are con- forming. Mr. Cornwell asked total, including those super large price signs and that self-serve sign on the corner. Mr. Kurosaka stated that those signs were conforming at the time they were installed. Mr. Boynton verified that. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Board refused to let Mobil put the self-service signs on the pump but the old sign ordinance said that they could put as many signs as they wanted on the bujlding. Mr. Cornwell stated that the price signs have been put up recently. They didn't have price signs up at all for a long time. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the state mandates price signs and the Board is just trying to get straightened out what they are going to do with them. Variance # 530 Page 61 ") " 0<: 07 Mr. Kurosaka stated that the state mandates only a minimum size price sign. There is no maximum limitation on these signs. Mr. Cornwell stated that there were no price signs when Peter Bri11ing had the station. Mr. Cornwell stated that he objects to the price signs plus all these other signs. I think their big thing is going to always be for the most. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he wanted to revise his motion. Mr. Kurosaka made a motion that the 2 freestanding signs be approved provided that Mobil Oil Corporation removes the 2 self- service signs that are attached to the building on the corners. Mr. McIntire asked if that includes the price portion of those signs. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he is talking about the self-service signs. Mr. McIntire stated that he thought self-service and the price were all 1 sign. So if Mobil took the whole thing down there would be no price there at all. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he thought that he ought to take the signs down. Mr. McIntire stated that if Mobì1 took the signs down then there would be no price signs at all. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the state law mandates that you have a price sign, at least 1 square foot, on the pumps. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Board has a proposed sign ordinance change for a self-service cube that can go on each one of the islands. There are 4 sides, with self-service on 4 sides and it has the re- quired text to perform the state's requirements, etc. This is tenta- tive now but this board has been assured as far as the town board Variance # 530 Pa ge 62 ;(&6- is concerned that this will be enacted. Mrs. Richardson pointed out to Mr. Kurosaka that he is trying to take down some signs and then grant permission to put up more. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he is trying to get the 2 signs down that are on the corners of the building, the price signs too. ,Mr. McIntire stated that he wanted to remind the Board what the application is for. It is dnly for these 2 competing self-service signs. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he made a motion and nobody on the Board seconded it and he is now trying to get conditions so the Board can get a second on the motion. Mr. McIntire stated that he would certainly agree with removing any of the self-service portions of the 2 signs on the building but he doesn't know what Mobil Oil's feeling would be about removing the price signs. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he wants to see the whole sign come off. Mr. Kurosaka stated that there is a state law that is going to mandate Mobil Oil to put those sqùare foot signs on the pumps anyways. Mr. Cornwe 11 stated that the law has a lready been mandated, October 1st.. Mr. McIntire asked if the law mandates removing the existing signs however. Mr. Kurosaka told Mr.McIntire that he is asking .for a variance and the Board is saying that they will grant you a variance if you meet with the conditions, if you don't meet with their conditions Variance # 530 Page 63 ;)00 then they won't grant you a variance. Mr. McIntire stated that Mobil Oil's feeling is that if they are going to transfer this into a self-service station they want to be able to advertise their price as the other self-service stations. Mr. Kurosaka stated to Mr. McIntire that if he didn't agree to something that he wasn't going to get any action at all. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that Mr. Kurosaka made a motion and if Mr. McIntire's client, Mobil Oil Corporation, does not arree to comply with the conditions stated in Mr. Kurosaka' s motion, then they would have to come back before the Board. Mr. Kurosaka stated that if Mobil does not take the signs down that are on the building then they can not put up the 2 proposed signs. Mr. Cornwell stated that everybody is riding free on the price signs right now because the building inspector is waiting for the clarification of the state law, our own ordinance and how they are going to interpret the state law about the l' signs on the pumps. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the price signs are not on the pumps and that is why he wants them to come down. Mr. Cornwell stated that everybody is having a free ride on these big, oversized price signs and they are all going to have to come down when they buckle down to the l' signs on the pumps. Mobil Oil is not giving up much. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that there is a motion on the floor and asked for a second on the motion. Variance # 530 Page 64 "" / '7- (~ l¿7 Mr.s Richardson asked Mr. Kurosaka if the condition stated in his motion was to remove the entire 2 signs. Mr. Kurosaka stated that his condition was to remove the entire 2 signs, self-service and price, on the corners of the building. If the 2 signs come down then Mobil can have their 2 freestanding signs. Mrs. Richardson seconded the motion. Carried. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE PROVIDED TWO (2) SELF-SERVICE PRICE SIGNS ON THE BUILDING BE REMOVED. Variance # 531 - Mobil Oil Corporation (canopies) Route 9 and Aviation Road (Warren County Planning Board) C-2 Zone This applicant requests a variance from setback requirements in a C-2 district. Zoning ordinance requires 50' front setback and 20' side setback. Applicant intends to erect one service umbrella, 22' diameter, over existing pumps set back only approximately 17.5' from the side and 25' from front. Mr. McIntire, representing Mobil Oil Corporation, came before the Board on this application. Mr. McIntire stated that this application is the same application that was before the Board 2 months ago for the other Mobil just up the road. Mr. Kurosaka stated that it was a similar application. Mr. McIntire stated that it is the same situation, setback. Mr. Cornwell asked if the other station had built their canopies yet. Mr. Boynton stated that the canopies are all up and approved. Variance # 531 Page 65 I~ t ;;;\0 Mr. Cornwell asked if Mr. Boynton had a picture of the canopies. Mr. Boynton stated that he did not take a picture of them. Mr. Kurosaka asked if the Board was talking about putting canopies over 2 sets of pumps, mushrooms. Mr. McIntire replied yes. The Warren County Planning Board approved this variance. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board approved this variance. The Beautification Committee is taking no action on this variance. Mrs. Richardson asked Mr. McIntire if he had a picture. Mr. Kurosaka stated that these canopies are very attractive and they serve a purpose. Mr. Sicard made a motion on Variance # 531, Mobil Oil Corporation, for canopies, be approved. Mr. Turner stated that when the Board approved the other canopies he made a condition that when the station was abandoned the' canopies would have to come down. Mr. McIntire stated that they would except that. Mr. Boynton stated that there is a law in the sign ordinance which states that if there is any business that is abandoned or discontinued that any signs have to be removed within 30 days. Mr. Turner seconded the motion with an amendment to Mr. Sicard's motion. Mr. Sicard excepted the amendment. Carried. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE IN CONCURRENCE WITH QUEENSBURY AND WARREN COUNTY PLANNING BOARDS, WITH STIPULATION THAT IF THE STATION IS ABANDONED THE CANOPIES AND PUMPS ARE TO BE REMOVED IN 30 DAYS. Variance # 532 Pa ge 66 ~/'-Q c;;~ '0 I Variance # 532 - Robert W. Weaver, Jr. Manor Drive R-5 Zone This applicant requests a variance from setback requirements in an R-5 district. Zoning Ordinance requires 75' front and 30' side setbacks. Applicant intends to erect 4 apartment buildings on lot 400' x 150' deep with front setback 35' and side Setback 25' in Phase I and 3 additional apartment buildings with 35' front setback and 25' setback on southerly side of Manor Drive portion of PhaseII and remaining apartment building on northerly side Manor Drive PhaseII with 35' front. Mr. McIntire and Mr. Robert Weaver, Jr. appeared on behalf of this application. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that the property is presently owned by Henry Sleight. Applicant intends over 2 phases to erect a total of 7 apartment buildings with 4 units per building. Phase I consists of 4 buildings, 16 units, on north side of Manor Drive, and Phase II consists of 2 buildings, $ units on the south side of Manor Drive and 1 building, 4 units, on the north side of Manor Drive. Mr. McIntire (indicating on map) what their proposal was for Phase I and Phase II. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. McIntire that actually what he is asking for is to put the new buildings in approximately the same locations on the lots as the existing group. Mr. McIntire replied exactly. Page 67 Variance # 532 "7 /", /u Mr. Kurosaka stated that this is not permitted under the present ordinance and Mr. Weaver wants a variance so that it would look alike. Mr. McIntire stated that Mr. Kurosaka was right and that is exactly what he is here for. Mr. McIntire stated that this area was re-zoned R-5 to allow multi-family but by doing R-5 it changed the setback requirements. Mr. McIntire stated that what he is proposing is to conform with the setbacks that are here presently. Mr. McIntire stated that the setback from the rear lot lines does not require a variance but it does from this side and this side (indicating on map) and this side and the front, all the way a long. Mr. Kurosaka stated that if Mr. Weaver conformed with the ordinance he would have a pretty messy operation. Mr. McIntire stated that conforming with the ordinance would be impossible. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the buildingswould be spread out to far and the re-location would be weird. Mr. McIntire stated that the buildings couldn't be built there with the lot depth required. Mr. Kurosaka stated that actually this is a continuation of the original plan. Mr. McIntire presented the Board with pictures of the buildings. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. McIntire if they were going to maintain the same continuity. Mr. McIntire replied yes. Mr. McIntire stated that the setback variance and also the Variance # 532 Page 6$ ~} _7 I ~¿ I total square footage requires a variance, from the 80,000. to 67,000. Mr. McIntire asked the Board to pardon him, the Zoning Ordinance requires 80,000. square feet and the applicant proposes 4 buildings on 60,000. square feet, that is Phase I, the first 4 buildings. Phase II, 2 buildings on that side (indicating on map) and 1 other building on the other side. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. McIntire if he was talking about 80,000. square feet verses 60,000. square feet and is that 60,000. land that was owned. Mr. McIntire points that out on the map. Mr. Cornwell stated that that makes the same density as the previous built. Mr. McIntire agreed. Mr. McIntire stated that the previous buildings were built when it was an R-4 zone. Mr. McIntire stated that the other request is that they be allow- ed a 2 year phase on this project to allow for construction as opposed to 6 months. Mr. Kurosaka stated that Mr. Weaver doesn't want the variance to expire in 6 months. Mr. McIntire stated that once they start the project they want to be able to continue it for 2 years. It also ties in with the financing because Mr. Weaver is not going to finance all 7 buildings all at once. Mr. McIntire stated that they are proposing 2 parking spaces for each unit and the ordinance only requires 1. Mr. McIntire stated that in short, he is asking that the balance of Manor Drive be allowed to be developed in an R-5, multi-family, to conform with what is there now. He is proposing adequate parking. Page 69 Variance # 532 ,J 7:) As far as hardship goes, the building lot is only 150' deep and in an R-5 zone it is pretty difficult to, especially 1 that has now become pretty well designated as being, Mr. McIntire doesn't think of chances of this being developed for single family residence at this point is as evident as it being continued to be developed for the reason it was re-zoned an R-5, which is for multi-family. The Town of Queensbury Planning Board recommended approval of front setback, side setback, minimum lot size and extension of two years to complete Phases I and II. The Beautification Committee stated that being residential rental property and the setback lines are subject to variance, planning the present landscaping~ screen plans are continued there should be not other special beautification requirements. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he assumed Mr. Weaver would continue the same type of landscaping. Mr. Weaver stated that he would. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that there were a couple of other gentlemen in the audience that would like to ask some questions. Mr. Harold Rist II appeared before the Board. Mr. Rist stated that he is just trying to see how it relates to his property. Mr. John Briod appeared before the Board. Mr. Cornwell asked if it is contemplated that the area owned by the same owner down where all the junk is stored, be cleaned up and maybe continue this development. Mr. McIntire asked where all the Page 70 Variance # 532 37 =3 ø /--- junk was stored. Mr. Cornwell stated that all the junk is stored down beyond the proposed laundromat. There is remains of the fire in about 1953 still there. Mr. Kurosaka stated that he thought that was in an M~2 zone. Mr. McIntire stated that as he understood it from talking to George that it is not quite clear where the boundaries are, it appears to be a loop that goes right back to Aviation. Mr. Cornwe 11 stated that after the fi.re they left a lot of rusty iron and things around and they are still there and he is wondering if that is going to present a hazard to the children and so forth' if they don't clean it up. The land here in question presently belongs to Henry Sleight. Mr. McIntire stated that there were not immediate plans for Mr. Weaver to develope that area. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that the Board can't make a condition on this because the landowner is not the applicant in this variance application. Mr. Kurosaka stated that Henry Sleight owns the property and the applicant,Mr. Weaver,does not own the property at the present. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he thought the applicant had to be the owner of the property. Mr. Kurosaka replied no. Mr. Kurosaka asked Mr. Weaver if he was buying the property. Mr. Weaver replied that he is going to buy the property. Mr. Fitzgerald stated that he thought the Board should turn down the variance until the Board finds out whether Mr. Sleight will Page 71 Variance # 532 c.2 7i clean up the property. Mr. McIntire stated that Mr. Weaver is not going to buy the lot with all the junk on it. Mr. Cornwell asked who the Board was going to grant the variance to, the owner of the property or the proposed owner of the property. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the Board would grant the variance to the applicant, who in this case is Robert Weaver, Jr. Mr. Cornwell asked if Mr. Weaver does not buy the property then the variance expires immediately and Henry Sleight can not go ahead and do it. Mr. Kurosaka êtated that the variance goes to Robert Weaver through Phil McIntire. r~. McIntire stated that Mr. Weaver does not want to buy the land without approval to build the apartment houses. Mr. Kurosaka stated that the variance goes to the applicant and it can not be transferred. Mr. Turner made a motion to approve Variance # 532. Mr. Cornwell seconded the motion. Carried. The Board: RESOLVED: THE BOARD GRANTED THIS VARIANCE IN CONFORMITY WITH QUEENSBURY AND WARREN COUNTY PLANNING BOARDS AND AS MINIMUM FOR REASONABLE USE OF PROPERTY. (EXTENSION OF TWO YEARS TO COMPLETE PHASES I AND II GRANTED) The meeting was adjourned at 10:45 p.m. ·