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1988-10-12 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING OCTOBER 12, 1988 4:00 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESET STEPHEN BORGOS-NUPE VISOR MARILYN POTENZA-COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI-COUNCILMAN BETTY MONAHAN-COUNCILMAN BOARD MEMBE.It ABSENT GlEORGE KUROSAKA WN COUNSEL !_'AUL DUSEK RESOLUTION REGARDING USE OF QUEENSBURY CENTER RESOLUTION NO. 438, Introduced by Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Marilyn Potenza. W1IF.R.EAS, the Town of Queensbury has'recently constructed the Queensbury Center adjacent to the Town Office Building, and WHEREAS, pursuant to Sections 290 and 95-A of the General Municipal Law of the,State of New York, the Town of Queensbury may establish, construct, equip, maintain and operate for the Town of Queensbury, a facility for the operation and provision of health, recreational, vocational, and other programs and services for elderly citizens of the community, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that a Senior Citizens Room is hereby established at the Queenshury Center for the exclusive use of the Queensbury Senior Citizens, Inc., and 131: IT FURTHER, R RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Center shall be made available to the Queensbury Senior ;itizens in accordance with the terms that such facility is available for other groups or organizations xcept that the said Queensbury Senior Citizens, Inc., shall be exempt from fees. Dilly adopted by the following vote: Aves: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None ,J 4 Absent: Mr. Kurosaka RESOLUTION REGARDING PROPOSED BUILDING USE FEE SCHEDULE, APPLICATION FOR BUILDING USE., AND POLICY AND RULES FOR BUILDING USE FOR THE t;UEENSBURY CENTER RESOLUTION NO. 439, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded hy�Betty Monahan. V"R PEA", the Town of QNteensbury has recently constructed the Queensbury Center, such center being available for'nse by the Town of Queensbury for municipal functions and other Town-sponsored functiona;as well as other community organizations and groups, and WHEREAS, the Twran Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby determines that it is necessary snd desirable to set fees for the use of the said Queensbury Center, and adopt an application 1 aTctuesting building use and policies and rules and building use, and �V EREAS,.a proposed building use fee schedule, application for building use, and policies �Jnd rules for building use 4ave been presented at this meeting, NOW, THEREFORE'BE ITS REISOLVED, that the proposed building use fee schedule, application for building use, and policy and rules for building use presented at this meeting be and the same hereby are adopted by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, and the fees for use of said building are established as set forth in the building use fee schedule, and BE IT FURTHER . RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury shall annex a copy of the said building use fee schedule, application for building use, and policy and rules for said building use to the minutes of this meeting. Duly adopted by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Kurosaka WORKSHOP -TOWN BOARD, EARLTOWN, AND ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN PARTNERSHIP I REGARDING FINDINGS STATEMENT COUNSEL DUSEK-Maybe just to summarize from the last time the Board's reviewing this matter, we had basically bypassed items 4 and 5. As they tend to be conclusiary types statements that really kind of set the stage for approving the project as far as the environmental assessment is concerned and therefore I had made the suggestion to the Board that they bypass those two items and go on the findings of fact. I guess the areas that I would like to suppress at thispoint be those. The last time, as we go through the findings of fact the critical areas here is be sure that the Board is satisfied that all areas have been addressed in these factual findings. In other words, if there is anything you feel has been left out that should be added or that would make you decide one way or another as to those statements 4 and 5 then those additions should,,'made and the applicant should be asked to put them into the findings. I think that is about the only thing I wanted to say. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. 3 COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 would like to ask a question before we get going. Do we have any further information on the County as to how they are going to stand on leasing that additional Land or whatever? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 spoke to Mr. Robertson who mentioned that as far as'he knew everything was going very smoothly and that there'.should be no problem whatever and it may very, probably be voted on this Friday. I don't know if you have heard anymore. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Just as a follow up to that, I believe the Chairman of the Board of, Supervisors, Mr. Robertson, is sending a follow up letter beyond the 23rd of September letter, to the Town Board indicating that the County is planning to move ahead. With further resolutions on this issue. Obviously the entire transaction in transfer is not going to happen before the vote. But it is further in progress, Betty, since the last meeting we had. 'There will be a follow up letter to provide further information for the Town Board members to track that. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Thank you Ed. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Back to page 18. We finished through the first two lines. . We will continue with the same format, it seems to work. We are looking at B. I want to , be sure that that isn't supposed be renumbered or relettered. That should be number 2, I thought so. B should be 2.. Any comments about the first paragraph or the second paragraph? MR. MACELROY-1 have a question regarding the time frame, I guess, the monitoring? We i discussed the fact that, alright At this point,we did a traffic study and established certain conditions or the present time, up to say phase one. I would like to say that is pretty,we are pretty confident about that but now with the County upgrading the road to four lanes, I mean that is going to charge things around. It would lessen, therefore the impact.that the i project.would have. As we, as the project progresses to future phasesit was thought that j this monitoring program would be implemented before you got, for instance, to the second phase. Now, as I_am familiar with projects, phase projects like this, it is not so cut and dry, well phase one ends, and then you wait a few days, a few weeks, a few years and then you _ 1 start phase two. . There should be some lean time to prepare that study that would be required to set you up for entering into phase two in regards to the traffic and improvements. While, s phase two is going to require that the Ridge Road intersection is incorporated, we need a ` turning lane at Ridge Road or whatever. Now those things have been conceptualized in our, in the original traffic study but the purpose of the monitoring is to zero in on that, as we go down the road and we have a better feel for how the progress of the development is progressing any impact that do in°fact occur as opposed to sort of crystal balling it at this point. Not implementing those requirements that at 1993, phase two, a traffic signal will be required at the intersection at such and such. The purpose of the monitoringgto keep a handle on that and therefore it is the responsibility of the project sponsor to take care of that monitoring program. But I think that it needs to be some definition, my whole point I guess is, of time frame that that traffic study, updated the traffic study would be done in sufficient time prior to the expected would be. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dennis, when you were talking, I don't know if the public should perceive that phase one ends ... phase two starts. Your phase one,somewhere along the way phase two starts in there. T,..can remember looking at the map and seeing a of draft or something that you have done Bob. You are into 60 percent complete phase one or 40 percent complete of phase one and all of suddnn another ... t ( � �R. MACELROY-...distinction necessarily between the end of one and the beginning of two. s COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I would say what might happen is, a phase you know, is a long drawn out thing. For instance phase r.�►�e, refresh me now guys, I'm dealing with Hiland, West Mountain and Quaker Ridge, but phase one I think was primarily Quaker Ridge, Quaker Road area, or Ridge Road area. AIR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes that is correct COUNCILMAN MONTESI- '�o somewhere along the lines phase two might include the-golf course and the hotel and inns. It may be what you are looking at, is when phase two officially starts, that means that you come in for a site plan review on that phase. That might trigger the start of the monitoring. It may not be effected, I mean you know, what is the sense of monitoring phase two if there is nobody living there yet, where the impact isn't there,. but your might start all of the ground work necessary. I don't know. What ever you want to trigger with but you ought to try and coincide with when you start a phase because the starting of a phase is an official action by the Planning Board or the Town Board. That may be the key. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well we've stated in the opening paragraph that the program will be established at Earltown's expense and the program will be undertaken over the length of the project which is twenty years. I think we wanted to have general language to cover that because you are absolutely right, if we come in to phase two for site plan review to the Planning Board at that point, the Planning Board, first of all has a prerogative to ask us to provide updated traffic studies at that point. If we haven't done that, there-is going to be a further dolay by the Planning Board correctly so, so that Earltown has to go back. So what we have Idicated that there is an ongoing monitoring program over the length of the period of this hoject. I think what we have,been able to identify through our workshops with EDP and c finder is pretty.much the first five year phase of the traffic improvements. I think as we get into the fourth or fifth dear that is where I think there is some general thoughts as to what may happen down the road. I think if we want to put in some more language, we'll welcome to it. I think it is hard to prat in an exact date or phase when it starts. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dennis, I think you both did it on a ..... You identified what you consider the problems to he, number one for the first five years, just looking at an impact of a hundred or two hundred homes. But the impact of phase two may not be felt until phase three is started. Because you know, as I say, if'you start a study at the beginning of phase two, it is really not meaningful enough until may be the start of phase three, when you say wow the golf course is in, the hotel is in, a hundred houses are in, and now we are starting to see the impact. But maybe you can trigger that with site plan review. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I w Wd like to make a couple of suggestions here to be more specific also and see what you think about them. You say a monitoring program and I would like to add something to this effect. Consisting of not less than two weeks of automated traffic counts per year and related_engineering review. Now is that some kind of reasonable place to start. In other words put the cords out for a week twice a year and get'some numbers. MR. BARTHOLOMFW-I think,perhaps just to back up on one point here. Ron, the traffic impact has been analyzed over the entire the length of the project. The specific. improvements beyond the first five,-years will be determined by the monitoring program. I don't want to nvey the impression that there hasn't been any impact... t. MACEL ROY-Thosu,_conditions are speculated upon at this stage but that is just what it is. I mean fifteen years dowri the road, the project, if it proceeds will, could take on a different direction. COUNCILMAN AIONTESI-Maybe Steve has the right liarndle then, the monitoring might be a yearly type of thing that gives you an indication of whether your estimates are accurate or not. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think that you have to be relatively specific otherwise the monitoring 'i s i program could mean to some people that somebody walked out and looked at traffic for an hour and that was it. You can give us some idea of what you would like to do. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think the specifics perhaps should be left to the suggestions of the time by the appropriate review consultant in Town, perhaps, for us to speculate that we need a week or two weeks at when in the year and at what exits... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think we should say at least once or at least twice or something to say that we are going to be a little bit,specific. COUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-Don't forget though Steve, we have an engineer who is in house- now, and whenever any of these projects move ahead, he will be writing up All the directions, so that specifications as needed that have to be met. t i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-True. { COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think perhaps that is better left to professional people who I know what is necessary then to us that are lay people. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Oh, I'm not trying to do that, I'm just trying to get a little more specific so we don't have ambiguities hanging out. l MR. MACELROY-Okay, I don't object to that, I would defer to Grinder for instance. i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No problem. i MR. MACELROY-To smooth out the language that you've suggested. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Can you give us something that would be along those lines just a little bit more specific? Doesn't have,to be grandiose plan. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Perhaps you want to say something-about you want a comparison figure that is built up over a period of years. - SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Well essentially that is what, we would be monitoring to see if their projections were on target. That is really what they're looking for, I think. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Of course we have no idea what is going to happen around here either. I mean and I am going way back to when if a east-west bypass goes into Vermont rf and all of this type of thing, can completely change all these traffic patterns that are around here. We can't look at Earltown just in the little pocket all by itself because other things are going to be happening in these same number of years. MR. MACELROY-Exactly. That is why I think somewhere along our discussions here I thought that we had brought this to a wider scope, I guess. Earltown being part of this,. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well I think if you look in the findings, if you go down in the second paragraph, almost to the end of it in section 2, it says, determine the needs of timing for any additional improvements and apportionment of responsibility among the several developers in any affected areas. Is that what you are thinking of Dennis? MR. MACELROY-Well yes. But I think it goes as far as not only thatthose improvements, sharing the cost of those improvements, but also the monitoring program that other people would be involved in that as well and not that Earltown and Quaker Ridge would be responsible for developing or updating the traffic study in an area that .... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-May have been already done by somebody else too. I think like j an east-west bypass, if it ever comes to pass the State will be in here doing a lot of monitoring. i MR. MACELROY-Maybe part of the responsibility of someone else as well. Even, and I get back to whatever requirements that might have been monitoring. They could come into;,the. whole as well and maybe some other project that came along on Quaker. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think that Hiland and Earltown attempted to follow some-kind of pattern of when the initial phases of traffic. Once you go beyond five years, it gets very difficult. I think Earltown would agree to language that, that the follow the second phase, further phases of the monitoring program will be accomplished by Earltown. The parameters of that monitoring program would be established jointly by Earltown, by the Town of Queensbury,, by Warren County, the'State and other effected developments in the area. I think what Dennis is looking for and what we are looking for, is really what you want to be able to do is comprehensive traffic plan, after the first,five years where that there are other effects, as Betty is suggesting. i I i that east-west bypass or whatever in this area. There are some potential intersections where our study can coincide with Mr. Bowen's study on tapper Ridge Road for instance where there maybe an impact related modestly between both projects there. I think if we can work out, I think rather than trying to be specific Mr. Supervisor as to what we actually need in the study at that time, I think it would be difficult for us to sit here and say we need it for two or three weeks. We may need at that time during the Spring-Summer months and then again in the Fall for accurate ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I just want to point out. I think, based on past experience, if we leave it to be to ambiguous we'd have some problems. But lets talk about that, I like your concept and perhaps maybe this is the phraseology to use, a monitoring program intended to provide at least a five year trafffe"plan, will be established at Earltown's expense. Okay, that tells j iwhat the purpose is at least, in the direction we are going in. i 2. BARTHOLOMEW-We, will do that but the intent for the program will go over the length I of the project which is twenty years. j SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-The specifics is what we've got to find... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It can be pretty general, specific language. But just so that we can go and say was it or wasn't it done. You could say, well maybe. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You see I think everybody is thinking of the impact on lower Ridge and on Quaker. I frankly am thinking of some other impacts. There are a lot of large developments starting up there off of Ridge Road now. Much to my dismay but that is either here nor there. North to Lake George you put all these developments coming in, you know we are talking about you provided some of those other developments that started, you've got about another big impact. I'm thinking of going north and hitting 149. I'm thinking of going north and going to the Lake George Road. So I hate to put ourselves in any kind of locked room right now, when I think we are going to need some flexibility coming down the years when we see what is going to happen in this Town. I don't want to just zero in on a very narrow ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No, and it is not my intention to lock us in but rather just be able provided all this stuff goes ahead, to be able to say things are done or not done. � IOUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Maybe Dennis you would like to work on some language that maybe -)eve would feel comfortable with perhaps? Or you and Grinder along with Earltown? MR. MACELROY-Yea, I think I want to understand if it is... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It doesn't have to be awfully specific. It just has to be something that we can go out and check to see if it was done. MR. MACELROY-Here we are talking about a specific project and I think if we had our blinders on to this specific project we could say, at Earltown's expense there would be a monitoring. program that would basically revise what they have done already. But that really only takes in there effected area and obviously other things are going to happen in their area and other areas. Not to over complicate tLis issue but if it was part of a comprehensive effort, I don't know. I mean are we getting overly involved... SUPERVISOR-BORGOS-Probably. MR. MACFLROY-What we ,ire trying to do, simply stated Earltown could go in every five years do this over and over again, and revise their own figures. That would take care of their little package, that would be their responsibility, that would be the simplest way. But there are other developments that we know right now that impact on the same area and should there not be some cooperation between those parties. L'*'UPERVISOR BORGOS-That is spelled out,later in the paragraph where you are talking about unding the mitigation measures. And even there I have a question about sprorata share. think we ought to add the language based on a percentage of traffic flow or something. We have been dealing with prorata shares in other areas and ,you've got to have a base for that. MR. MACELROY-It gets into this formula process that I have written to you about. In that somewhere in this formula should be evolved somehow. -SUPERVISOR BORGOS-�How do we refer to it though? Assuming prorata share of various introstructure improvement costs, whether the Town achieves determination of these formulas 1 i within house staff or through an outside consultant is certainly time we would proceed. How .do we write it in here now faced with the dead lines that we are faced with so that we take ! care of it? - MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think as a suggestion, subject to your Town Attorney's review of this, is that pretty much I think that Earltown and the prior Planned Unit Development, Hiland Park agreed to a prorata share of the cost. Which can be contributable back to the respective developments. There is no formula in place. That is the real problem. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I raised the subject only because from time to time in recent in pass months we have had certain similnr circumstance. If we can nail it down now with some degree of reliability I think we will be further ahead. I'll look at the Attorney, who has been in on some of these meetings. COUNSEL DUSEK-I agree. I had reviewed this part of it as part of the proposed PUD resolution and it shows up there again. One of the comments 1 wrote that I think, that I would like to recommend, that is some sort of percentage or formula if you will, be developed, because this is a sure hit for a problem down the line when the time comes because nobody is going to be able to agree on what the percentage should be. No matter how good the intentions of the parties may be, one party is going to want more, the other party is going to want less, I mean that is just the nature of these type of sharing formulas. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think, you know, I don't know how you are going to come up with numbers even right now, so I think the formula is right. But I want to point out is, at f this point the unknowns are, not the number of houses and the people in the houses, that could j be figured out under the ..., it will be how many outsiders are using the golf course,'how many outsiders are using the shopping areas, how many people are coming there to work in your , j industrial park. These are all things that are unknowns that will have to be factored in some way or other. But they are definite, I mean you don't want to just zero in on the houses and the hotels and things like that. MR. MACELROY-No, there are factors in the traffic study, I mean there are assignments made to those different traffic generators. The point of the monitoring would be to confirm those amounts. And those are text book type figures traffic engineers use to assign generators of traffic and again it is a confirmation. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well in your field Dennis, is there a formula that has already - been developed that we can just say such and such formula is made a part of this or no? I mean in other professions there are things like this, but I don't know about in yours. MR. MACELROY-I think towns are just in this area probably just getting into that aspect of but they are used ...impact fees and cost sharing. We can discuss this casually for over a ,year. I guess I can remember discussing it with Stewart and he had some background in that type of thing. I'm not directly familiar with how that might be set up. There are other' places that probably established such an animal but ... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Ed, let me ask you this. It might prove to be beneficial in a helpful point to Quaker Ridge too. Suppose we used eighteen months as a guide, eighteen months' from the start of the project. Suppose at the end of eighteen months you present to the Town Board your study, your monitoring study on the key intersections that effect Quaker Ridge. The interesting comparison that you'd want to make is here is what our original engineering study said would be happening, here is what our monitoring shows. That would get you in line for a phase two or phase three, depending. But if you did it every eighteen months, that kind of a review monitoring, it might be helpful to you for your next phasing. It also might be helpful to the Town Board to feel that the impact is not as great as the study thought it would be or it is greater and we have to accelerate certain things. MR.. MACELROY-1 think you'll find though that where you refer to as eighteen months is � really five year. The traffic study that is typically set up on that... in phase one,-1992 traffic, i 1997 traffic. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Okay, I guess I was getting, the reason why I am saying-a year and a half is I am getting a reaction from the rest of the Board that five years might be too far down the road. What happens is that phase two may come along in three years and quaker Ridge is saying we don't have any impact, in a year and a half they'll have. MR. MACELROY- ....on planning process for phase two, then that might be there. i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think there are really two distinct issues. Number one is the improvements that Earltown has agreed to the first five years, and then through their internal monitoring program based on the impact of our project, what Earltown agree over the next fifteen years. See and and'above that is'realty what Earltown is looking for and what Dennis is suggesting, I think everyone is a comprehensive or consumption of development for having on going traffic studies in these highly visible traffic areas. Because certainly the development across the street from Earltown, the carwash and so forth, is going to have an impact as well as everyone else on Quaker Road, and if any other development occurs up by Mrs. Monahan's house, it is going to have an impact., All of those developers should be willing to pay a prorata share into the study and be willing to pay a prorata share of improvements. Earltown has no problem with section one of our study and to put language in there that we agree to assist in the funding of comprehensive plan for our region based on our contribution. Our plan a- study pursuant of DOT request, impact goes all the way to Route 9 and Quaker Road. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I guess, I don't want to see you comprehend. I don't want to see you get locked into a comprehensive. I want to see you get locked into, and I think the Board ; saying, a monitoring program, not a comprehensive, a monitoring program. Now a monitoring rogram, obviously, the guy across the street has an impact on that monitoring program. cell you are the only guy that we can nail realistically. Because you are coming along in phases. Unfortunately the carwash and the autobody and the new car dealership are part of the quote subdivision if you will, but we don't have a handle on that. The impact that they have maybe more meaningful than your golf course. We don't know that at this point. All we know is that you have made a study and it is five to fifteen to twenty years study and it says this is what you estimate the impact to be. Knowing full well there was vacant land across the street or developable land across the street. I guess all we are trying to do is get a handle on how often should we ask you to monitor to see how close we are to what is really happening. The cost of that monitoring, that is not the big thing, that maybe exactly what Steve is talking about, traffic counts, to see how they compare to what we said would be there or what your study said would be there. The cost of, do we have a handle.on Hiland, yes, he has an impact on Quaker Ridge Road intersection. He has an impact on a Meadowbrook Road intersection and Quaker. He has agreed to that some cost would be.shared by him, if and when it is triggered that a. new line or a wider intersection or whatever else is needed. But without getting it too complicated I think what I am looking for is a monitoring program, what, every two years. What are you looking for counts? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It se:?ms to come down to counts all the time. Car numbers seem to be important. That seems like the easiest thing to do. I don't want to stick on this forever but T think It is important enough that we do something. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Maybe this triggering of site plan review would be a monitoring device that you would come in, five phases... ER. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes, five phases. I think somehow because if we did a count hypothetically —very eighteen months but didn't come in until the next five years, that that interim report y may not be of any consequence. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well I know. If you have five phases over, it is every four years literally, broken down over twenty years. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Four phases over every five years. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Some of them may be accelerated. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes and I think that were not going to get out of the Planning Board without further traffic studies. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you try to propose some very short simple language between now and the seventeenth, half a sentence or whatever? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-May I also mentioned that now that we have a professional Planning Department, any of these people coming before the Planning Board are going to have to get through the Planning Department first and the requirements are going to be much more detailed. Not as ambiguous and greater in scope. I think we do have to have some faith in the departments in our own Town or we are doing a lousy job and we better revamp the departments. cUPERVISOR BORGOS-A point well taken. Okay, anyone else in that area?- We'll look forward hjust some brief something on the seventeenth. i 'r,OUNCILMAN MONTESI-That would just be whatever monitoring would be prior to the middle of your phases, site plan review. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Again that is going to be dictated by the Planning Department... MR. BARTHOLOMEWY-1 think what I will do is put some language in there. But also subject, there may be, Betty, I think what Betty refers to, Lee may have some requirements, that when we go to site plan review there were going to have so may counts at different times. I That is we plug in..., COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What I'm also saying is that what is required of you today, may not be the same thing that is going to be required of you in fifteen years or otherwise this Town isn't getting any smarter. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay how about the next paragraph, begins with all the roads within the Quaker Ridge site, so forth. Any questions? I think that was a recommended change made the other day. The last, part of the last sentence reading, and will be offered for dedication to the Town of Queensbury and accepted. Next paragraph? How about the last paragraph on the page? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait a minute, we got another one here. Did we change this one, this road will be constructed at Earltown's expense during the first five years of the Project? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Will be offered, right. I i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-And will be offered to... 1 SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm glad you caught that. 1 COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-..the Town of Queensbury for dedication. AIR. MACELROY-1 think there is a comment here that I notice that is mentioned by Grinder I on a couple of occasions and on the level of plan that we have it really doesn't discuss it but its the set back on that service road from Quaker Road and how that ended. His comment is that, from Grinder, his comments were related to the fact that if those roads are too close it somewhat defeats some of the purpose that it serves, in that the queuing at the intersections, you got traffic backing up into the service road. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think we've looked at that on the project already, haven't we? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Not really. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That has been brought out, the stacking and what we are planning to do again through the second process of detail with the Planning Board, it is anticipated that the service road at presently in, when that is connected to the second portion it will be a little bit deeper into the project so that the issue of queuing or stacking up will be, will be less by doing that. That is the subject of review between the Town Planning, of course Warren County on that, but we do have plans Dennis to move that road north a little bit. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It is in the best interest of the project sponsor to do that anyway. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Dennis is there any language that you feel should be put in there? AIR. MACELROY-Without it's specific meaning the neatest thing to put in would be to say what the buffer is going to be between the right of ways of the two roads. I don't know if that if that has come out in previous discussions or .... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Within our discussions that we had with Mr. Austin and the Department of Public Works, Warren County Committee, we would discuss that. I think for us to put an exact figure in at this point would be counter productive due to the fact that Warren County is in the process of planning the expansion of the widening of the road right now and how far they go over to what particular point, I think that our preference would be is to leave that particular site plan review issue to the Warren County Planning Board and to the Queensbury Planning Board. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-1 think you are right Ed cause you know, I don't even know if Fred i hasn't already planned which side he is going to take. As you get down by the North Country- Imports, will the road be wider on that side and Garden Time or on the Earltown side? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-It basically will be on the Earltown side. I. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Then again what gets thrown into that is if Fred follows suit he wants all water and sewer lines and all the utilities out of the road right away, so... MR. MACELROY-Maybe there could be some general language though saying that consideration should be given to buffer distances between service road and Quaker Road in time of site plan review: COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Thats what I was thinking. Perhaps there should be a flag put in there. SUPJ RVISOR BORGOS-I have no problem with that. Okay any concern about the last paragraph nn this przge? if not will go ... i MR. MACELROY-Well.. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Boy it is going to take us a long time to get off this one page. That is okay. MR. MACELROY-Five access point will be constructed, Earltown will signalize each access, if warranted by traffic studies, at Earltown's expense, I know I'd have to clear my recollection of what has been determined, but those would be within this first five year period and therefore that determination should have been established by our, the original traffic study which is in ... which should make some recommendation. Maybe in general, maybe this doesn't discuss it specifically but we should have some determination at this point as to what should happen or what can be recommended to happen in each one of those intersections. R. BARTHOLOMEW-Well during the first five years Dennis while they are constructing the study pointed out that is wasn't necessary to put up five, we are not going to go out and put up five traffic lights, during the first five years unless it is warranted. MR. MACELROY-Okay, again we will have to check specifically what the recommendations were of the traffic study. But with that in 1.992, there were recommendations that this should happen at this intersection, this should happen here, whether it was three lights or two... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes and we agreed to go to maximum .... if necessary that is why we went to, rather than three and two. If you want to say... 3 MR. MACELROY-I guess the thing that bothers me about that, if warranted by traffic study, well we've already done the traffic studies, and the next monitoring really wouldn't be the monitoring that we've already talked about which is dealing with phase two, that may not be taking .... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is why I was talking about one year monitoring to see if you are going in the direction you were anticipating. i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That is where we stated that we would have an ongoing monitoring program over the entire length of the project. Initially they talk about within the first five ,years Dennis is putting up three traffic lights and then possibly during the second five years of putting up another.., OUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Dennis what section are you in? �R. BARTHOLOMEW-The bottom of page 18. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No I mean looking at your traffic study there, your map that you've got. MR. MACELROY-This map of alternative four. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-When we talk about five that are, are referring to the industrial or commercial, Earltown's commercial strip.. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Right now, that is two, and that is in essence not part of the Quaker Ridge Development, I mean it is not part of the PUD. I MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That is correct. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-But those are two entrances that are already in place and,obviously there are no tenants at the present time, so that the lining, the sequence, that part of it isn't j really impacting on anyone yet. The next cut that we make will probably be for the golf course, country club,inn concept..., where are the next two? R. BARTHOLOMEW-The r,ext two would be the extreme east portion of the property. I'm j ',orry, both the extreme west and east, County Line Road to Quaker. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Tyro of those driveway cuts, if you will, are already in and have no impact right now because there is no tenants. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-`I'hei,e is two here, there is one to the east by Community Workshop that will connect County Line Road. A third, a new third one, or a new second one, Dennis will be by east Sanford Street and then parallel and then over here. MR. MACELROY-I'm not sure what would trigger that. I understand what Ed is saying, you're not going to put .... from day one, necessarily, for those intersections but at some point they would be warranted. Up until our conservation so far today, I was expecting that this monitoring would occur upon phase two or roughly five- ears as projected. So that it wouldn't be until g Y Y P 3 that, you get a traffic study which would then say, yes we should have lights at those intersections which are existing traffic study currently says..wouldn't be necessary by 1992. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So what you're almost saying Dennis is that it should monitored in time to see if something should be in plane hV 1992. It will take awhile to do all of this stuff, they have to fiscally work on it and everything. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Something has been determined. It has already been determined that there is going to be five access points. MR. MACELROY-During the first five years, the access done the first five years." COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That is what I am saying, that that said that those five years... needs to be monitored. I mean you know, right now, I can think of this, as just another example, a developer that came in front of this Town to get a development approved, that he thought it would take him ten years to sell the lot, and they were sold in three. Now we can start to go in just exactly the opposite and throw all these figures out of whack., So you can't go by what is going on right now, you've got to monitor to see what is going on in a future time. } Which may or may not be what is being projected, it could be more, it could be less. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We went ahead and we said, and we can add language to the top of page 19, that we will put in five traffic signals... signal each access if warranted by traffic studies, at Earltown's expense during the first five years. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Ed are we getting five access points on Quaker Road? Why do you as Quaker Ridge have to consider Earltown's commercial development as an access point? I realize one of the driveways can go straight through and hit this residential area. I don't see where the five are? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Ron it starts at extreme east. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Here is Quaker Road, this is Sanford, alright. Right here is where the commercial part of it is now, they've got two here. They might have to put another one possibly and this is Sanford and then you've got two more. So you've got two north of Sanford and the other three south. What you are saying is that the studies that they've done, it has been projected that they're going to need five by 1992. Am I right or am I wrong? MR. MACELROY-Three lights and two stop signs. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-But five access onto Quaker Road? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What, 1 don't understand Dennis, what you are saying is that you want it more descriptive, you want to know when the lights are going up, between now and 92? c MR. MACELROY-What is going to trigger the installation of those lights? Rather than putting them in day one, which ... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-In other words, suppose that area of Town falls apart and there is no traffic on Quaker Road in 1992, whatever it is, because of certain reasons around here. i COUNCILMAN POTENZA-We would have three lights in brown bags, something like that...no no. E MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Move Shop N' Save down there. t COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Good point. i I COUNCILMAN M`ONAHAN-Frankly I'm no engineer but I would've designed that deai'a little differently, I tell you. j 4 COUNCILMAN POTENZA-So what you want is more descriptive language then, right? MR. MACELROY-Well I don't know what warrants those, I don't mean to confuse the issue } here but the initial phase of the traffic study is what we've relied, or going to rely on that, } and then at that point then we are talking about the inonitoring which will improve or revise the figures of that have been projected this far. But until you get to'that point, 1992 or the end of phase one, there is nothing that we can trigger a traffic study which would tell you when are those lights required unless its.... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Except going to site plan or projected... MR. MACELROY-There would be a site plan at the end of phase one. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That is right, which the Planning Board would require some sort of monitoring of traffic. So I think what we've come is all the way around Robinhood's Barn and come right back to what we are talking about for the last hour and that's the fact that the responsibility will have to fall on the Planning Board, for site plan review. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We will add another short sentence and specify pursuant to the traffic study what they fall for, was three and two, during the first five years. We wanted to increase that and say that we will signalize all those access points if need and perhaps that was complicating the issue a little bit. . We will spell out and I think that the issue of triggering when those will be built, in prior projects we've used needed basis, and I think we've got to be more definite than that and just indicate that... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The State has what they call warrants, and that is a similar word here, in a different way, same word in a different way. If you hit the State warrant limits then you put them in, and they are very specific. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Are you almost Steve looking for that thing that they've used in traffic studies that changes a road from a different level like from what... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Some more requirements related to volumes of traffic and accidents, and types of accidents, those kinds of things. We've got the same thing out here. This intersection warrants and has for some period of time, warrants a traffic light based on the warrant criteria of the State. Again, they're very specific and I think that might be the point to look for. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We've committed to, we'll put in there some language that we've committed to the traffic signals and indicate that within eighteen months of the start of construction we will return to the appropriate Town Governing body with traffic to indicate to you at that time the need to signalize. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is very reasonable. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think if we put in some time frame of eighteen months after we start at that point. Dennis is that alright? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-He got §pecific. That is good. Page 19, the second paragraph. Again we see the term prorata share. Try to come up with something to indicate what the basis of that would be if you would. How about the next paragraph? Now we're going to look at the fourth paragraph down? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Where are we? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Page 19, the paragraph beginning, Earltown will. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I wonder whether I like the words practical or possible. That sounds like lawyers language that you can do whatever you want to. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Where are you in that paragraph? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Earltown will work and coordinate traffic improvements wherever practical and possible. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay I was one above that. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Oh excuse me, am I faster? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No that is okay. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think what we were trying to do is just to coordinate our construction with Warren County, Betty, in a manner recognizing the rights of the County also recognizing are rights to move ahead with the turning and signaling. COUNCILMAN MONAI-IAN-What I am also saying that you are out as is just to say well its not practical for us to do that now. i '"' MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think we, going with what our intent Is, and that, we're giving you I I iJ a letter of intent, if you want to strike that. We were just indicating that because of the -�- -intention we want to coordinate our traffic improvements as much with Warren County As an example, the traffic signals that were put up on Quaker Road will be, purchased byEarltown and owned by Earltown and will be coordinated with Fred Austin of the DPW. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Why don't we just say Earltown will work to coordinate traffic improvements with the announced intention of Warren County to expand Quaker Road from two to four lanes. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Fine. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It sounds reasonable. So we drop out, wherever practical and possible. I'll ask the Town Attorney if at any point you think we are giving away the store, please hollar. }' Thank you. ; COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That was his third semester of law school that we just litigated. i i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Last paragraph on page 19? We made it to page 20. I wish we could have a copy for everybody in the audience. Essentially we're looking over some pretty broad C brush language and we are slowing down to go into to those things that are rather detailed. Right now we're looking at a recitation of different actions that took place on different:dates. I won't take time to read it to everybody. I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Steve is this true, on August 12, Warren County Board of Supervisors I approved the Quaker Road Project and authorized the appropriate financing, did they authorize the appropriate financing for the road itself or for the engineering studies? i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I don't believe the financing has been authorized for the road. I may - ! be mistaken but I don't think that that has been done. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-24,000, study years ago was authorized... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well no, now they are doing engineering work. Excuse me I should have said they appropriated money for engineer work, design. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think that's where we are at. I don't think the financing for the actual bonding has been accomplished. I may be wrong. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well they did issue the initial, the way the resolution is worded, the initial phasing of the design planning and authorize further borrowing to the County Treasurer through bond anticipation notes for the project. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That was for phases... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 will clarify that. . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you clarify please? I think they worked first with the phase through Bay Road,then next years to be the Ridge Road distance and so forth. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-There were two resolutions that were passed that day related to this project. One was to authorize a portion of cash that you had in hand and also authorizing- the County Treasurer to borrow. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay next paragraph, starting with at Earltown's expense? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-There was a question from the Counsel on that. Who will maintain the bike trails and or sidewalks? I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-And how they will be treated? i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Later on it is clarified in here, that the bike lanes are really paved shoulders. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-By the Town of Queensbury. That will be inserted and sidewalks will be maintained not by the Town of Queensbury. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Okay. MR. MACELROY-Sidewalks meaning on side of the right of way. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You have to understand New York State does not allow anybody to put in a bikeway that is in the road. What you call it is a paved... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Shoulder. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-A paved shoulder and it can be used for walking or biking but its literally for legality reasons it is called a paved shoulder. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Bike lanes have got to become a paved shoulder in this paragraph, I would think. If that is how they are going to be constructed. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I think for purposes of concept and transportation or ease of transportation of youngsters in the development, Earltown and the Town Board looked at a form of a bikeway. For legal points it is a paved shoulder. That is exactly what we have up on Aviation Road, it is called a paved shoulder and it does provide a bikeway and walkway. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Should we, do have a regular bike lane in here, an additional bike lane will be constructed a,,; the eastern portion of the site along the southerly utility right-of-way. !COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That is something that is out of the ordinary because what that j !bike way is meeting to the dedicated land for a park that Earltown is donating. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That has been clarified in the final draft that that particular bike path will not be maintained by the Town of Queensbury but by the Homeowner's Association. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That is a paved bikeway not in the roadway. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That will be a true paved bike lane? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes and that will operate and you will have attached map, that will operate along the utility right-of-way into the park so there is access. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That should be maintained by the Homeowner's Association? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, how about the paragraph related to the Greater Glens Falls Transit system? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait a minute, I didn't get there yet, I'm doing sidewalks. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It is the next one. We are now over on page 21. Item C in the middle of the page should be renumbered 3. D at the bottom should be renumbered 4. I COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Questioned if the property on the Quaker Road side is in a present L.lighting district, if this would be a double district? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I haven't checked the district area. Are you sure that's the case? COUNCILMAN MONTESIA think it is. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Question concerns whether or not Quaker Ridge project is within the already existing Queensbury Lighting District. Mr. Montesi indicates that it is. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think there are two ways to work at that. A portion is already in the existing lighting district. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What you probably depending what your final design is, in your lots of subdivision, one a specific coal, a bronze, .... type of light, whatever. Fort Amherst-Garrison Road has their own lighting districts, their own lighting district with Queensbury Central because-they wanted big poles, they don't have any wires on the front so they install their own poles and they pay for them separately. It is not an unusual situation. But just so you are aware. MR. MACELROY-The existing lighting districts have specifications for lights whereas I don't believe the subdivisions regulations for the overall Town deal with that. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What you are faced with is that now in most of the newer subdivisions it is underground wiring. So if you are going to be in the lighting district in the subdivision, you are faced with the proposition of putting poles up in that subdivision. If you try and do -- that as gracefully as possible in terms of making it blend in. So.it is a little bit unique. Quaker Road is part of the Queensbury Central District. Obviously some of your subdivision will be paying a fair share of that Queensbury Central Lighting because of the lights that are on Quaker Road, if there are any. Anything else that you do internally probably will form a separate lighting district, a new. MR. MACELROY-Which is my point. Queensbury Subdivision Regulations, I don't think, to my imagination, deal with the specifications of lights. Intersection lights or lights every so often on the street in subdivisions... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Some of our subdivisions do not want to be lit, the people have come in and oppose being lit. MR. MACELROY-Okay. What is the reason for that? I COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What we do as a Town, or as the Lighting Committee, I served : on it for a couple of years, was that when new subdivisions did happen, for instance, I can think of one on Sunnyside Road where the subdivider requested to have a light put on, that intersection where his came out on Sunnyside and one of the neighbors raised holy heck because that light was going to shine on the bedrooms. So it gets to be interesting. You know if you did that cartblanche every subdivision at intersection would have a light. What if the subdivision isn't in a lighting district? What happens? You know, we have a way around that, we just say for the safety of the highways that we put a light in. But in any event it hasn't been... MR. MACELROY-Well we would be satisfied with the language here, which simply states that the developer would provide adequate street lighting. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Sure and that will be to their taste. I p COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-The only thing that we might require is where these access roads come out onto Quaker Road, that there be a light there and then I'm not exactly sure whose responsibility that is going to end up being in. MR. M JA A'NEDT-We've already covered that, in our own section has been approved, of the 4 boulevard and the service road that goes through there..., the street lighting specified out has been approved by the Planning Board. It isn't in yet until we get tenants.... I COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We've done the same thing at the Queensbury Industrial Park. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think the other thing too, if we are going to be presenting these roads for acceptance and obviously you are going to get another look at the lighting besides the Planning Board acceptance of the roads, Paul Naylor is going to comment on the issue of adequate lighting on that road too. Obviously it is to Earltown's advantage to have the best adequate lighting. But again some areas, residential areas, where my parents live off of Dixon road, do not want lights in that area, north up in Bullard, having it in that area. MR. M AAT VF.DT-The one problem with that is that until you sell a lot the road has to be dedicated, until you sell a lot, you don't get your lights. So it can work the other way too. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We did put one light down at the end of Northwest? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-At an intersection. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-N o. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That was a request. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-By the ski trail. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Oh yes the ski trail. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is proven to be successful COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Couldn't get it on Sunnyside though. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We'll try again. COUNSEL DUSEK-Darleen just brought something to my attention. Apparently there has been some difficulties in the past concerning bus shelters which are on the previous page. Revolving the Greater Glens Falls Transit System and I guess the question would be is to who would maintain these bus shelters. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Paul Naylor has been. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Under the current agreement the Town of Queensbury is obligated to maintain and repair the bus shelters or as an alternate plan we can let "the bus company do it and bill us back. We've found it is a lot easier for us to just do it. Even though we haven't always done it as quickly as we should. r COUNSEL DUSEK-I guess the question that comes to my mind, this is one of the things that maybe the Homeowner's Association might want to maintain. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think they would do a-better job of it, put landscape around it and a few things like that. COUNSEL DUSEK-Since they are already doing a lot of the beautification in the area. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We can see if Bob Eddy may take that on. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Bob is right behind you... (.OUNCILMAN MONTESI-It hasn't been a problem in some parts of the Town for us.and others it has been. There has been some vandalism, there has been some breakage, there has been some construction work and they really get pretty dirty. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-As much as I wish to transfer as much of the burden as possible on the developer, I think in this particular case I would have to say that the Town or the Transit System should be responsible. Since we are doing it through out the Town on that basis I think we are going a little bit overboard. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I have no problem with doing it but if they want it in order to mnke sure that they were in keeping with the looks of their development, I say they are welcome to it. But I don't think we should throw it at them, no. It would be up to them strictly. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think that is a good point. I'd rather hit them for some other things. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I've seen some in some areas where the g rass isn't cut around them and they never apparently Windex or whatever you want to use on them, is never done, and a few things like that. I have a feeling this development they maybe wouldn't want their to look like that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I-think we are at the middle of the page on item 3. This item 3, I think fairly takes care of the problem we were.concerned about before, what happens if the pumps fail, will places be flooded, this seems to address that very nicely. MR. MACELROY-That is a statement. But should it be made into a condition? The statement, a minimum basement floor elevation of 320.00 will place basements well above all high water elevations. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Do you want it to read Dennis like it will be required-that? MR. MACELROY-Yes, I think there is language elsewhere that says that, that that should be .... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Alright. We leave that to our attorney maybe to... COUNSEL DUSEK-I think the requirement would actually come into play with the, if the Board gets that far, is the resolution actually enacting the findings....If I recall correctly, I thought I saw this, a lot of these same things, including set forth in there... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes. Almost all these are setforth. COUNSEL DUSEK-So that is where you can make a mandate. Where as here, is just really a statement, that is all. MR. MACELROY-It is a statement. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This is a findings statement. The next portion that would come next Monday, would have all this, almost all of this, word for word back in it. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We have no problem with incorporating this as a condition in here too. MR. MACELROY-Just to piit in, a minimum basement floor elevation of 320.00 as required, will place basements well Above. Something of that effect. That would just clarify it. AIR. BARTHOLOMEW-Fine. it's done. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. That was quick. Okay, item 4 at the bottom of that page? Rolls over to page 22. COUNSEL DUSEK-Perhaps if I could make just one comment. Regard to this paragraph on this page, I see that the first paragraph is particularly critical because you are making some key findings here at this point in regard to the impact on groundwater, resources, etc., increase in runoff, etc. This type of statement, I think is really keyed right back into the reports, if the Board accepts that paragraph, it would be on the basis of what you've found in the reports. If you want to modify that statement in any fashion based upon what you've read or you feel. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. I think we've checked that fairly thoroughly a number of times. We've found that there should be no adverse impact. But we are open to suggestions. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Paul do you have any suggestions or? COUNSEL DUSEK-No, that was my suggestion. I just wanted to alert the Board that I saw it as a key paragraph here that is going to hold you to, a significant finding at this point. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about the next paragraph down? Just a statement of fact. The next paragraph? How about the last paragraph? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I didn't really like the word adjacent. I thought,it should be.. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Which? �-COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Adjacent, the last paragraph, the second sentence. Adjacent means you've got to have a natural boundary line, and you couldn't they way .... not be adjacent. So I think it should be ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about close to? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Area or something. In an area close to the project site. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So, based on studies to date, there will be no adverse effects to the users of well-water near the project site? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Ye-., Yea I think near would be okay. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Near the project site is fine. i i COUNSEL DUSEK-The only question in that regard I would have is the project studies. My recollection, I can't recall off the top, did they actually address areas beyond the adjacent boundary line? i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-They went in the immediate vicinity. I have a concern over the word { near. How, what that means. I think the immediate vicinity is something would be more appropriate language. Betty do you have a problem with that? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm thinking. Probably not. I COUNSEL DUSEK-This again is another statement of fact that the Board is making. They are finding, based upon your review of the materials, you are saying that... i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Should we say that there should be no adverse effects? Will is a statement and should leaves some room. I don't like really the word will. The will,-first " sentence in that paragraph, the will should become a should. We don't really know that . We maybe want to look this whole page over and see If we want to put some shoulds in. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Lots of little qualifying words that sometimes save your neck. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What do you think of that first paragraph, Paul? Should any of those become a should? COUNSEL DUSEK-Well I think the first paragraph is kind of couched in the language where. ; it says, proposed development is expected to have a minimal impact, they use that phrase. Not expected to cause significant changes. Is expected appears in the reading after recharging it, so I think that that's... I think that gives, that is what you are expecting based upon the information you perceived, if in fact that is what you feel. I don't think that binds you into a locking position that is well never happen. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, lets go over to page 23. MR. MACELROY-Can we maybe just, I don't know if this is the location, but just briefly.. mention a consideration that I think Earltown has gone to... I think that we should discuss the public forum, the letter that you received Betty that... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I believe all of the Board members received it. MR. MACELROY-Okay. We're not just dismissing that, although it was a comment that came „ in beyond the comment period, but it was some acknowledgment that a down stream property owner outside of the Town, felt that there was some history to their property in changes that had occurred and felt that now there might be some relationship to the events that have occurred in, on the Earltown property site. Now taken as it was presented in that letter is i seems to me that is an issue that was of a historical nature. I mean it is not really d}rectly related to the project that we are reviewing here. But the similar impact should be..considered per downstream users and I hope that we can adequately state that that has been done in fi these studies. But historically speaking something has happened downstream and there was C some feeling that there was an impact related to that. Again it is a separate issue but Earltown ,• i gone to some extent to look into that and maybe Ed you could discuss it. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. I think that as Dennis has pointed out that what Earltown,has done is met with the property owner. We have completed the two days of testing results that will be made available, tomorrow. Which shows, first of all, the understanding that.... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Ed, can you just qualify for the public, we are talking about the Town of Kingsbury, right? Alit. BARTHOLOMEW-We're talking about some land that is on the Dean Road property. I.think to put this in proper perspective... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-It is a couple of miles..: K r MR. BARTHOLOMEW-It, is a couple of miles, and beyond that and most importantly is the fact that that flow to Dean Road comes off Earltown from two sites. But I think it is important to stress that the streams do not start and stop on Earltown's property. That the flow from the lower portion of Earltown's property actually starts across Quaker Road by Albany Engineering. Flows north and then comes across County Line Road onto Dean Road from the southern end. We also have a stream that starts on our property that goes through the Warren County Airport that goes through the Warren-Washington Industrial Park, goes onto Dean Road and collects at that intersection. That is part of our drainage system. Through our tests at seven j'erent locations there it does not prove to be of any of substance in terms of being innocuous. have talked and discussed this with Fred Austin from the Warren County Industrial and planning to follow up with the property owner and the other adjacent property owners in the area. I think it is similar to the issue that surprisingly with drainage the neighbors across the carwash and the new ? Motors, a portion of that actually flows north across onto the Earltown's site and that flows across our site onto Dean Road as well. So I think that, f one our drainage basin is larger than Earltown and we have taken this into account with our reviews and studies. That is one drainage basin and of course we've already done studies on the other drainage basin which flows south through the Town of Rueensbury Industrial I Park down. into the Hudson River. So that our goal is that we, through our studies and programs here we'll have an ongoing review and monitoring program of the drainage on site and off site as well as working with the neighbors on these issues. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I was under the impression too that what you just addressed was all drainage flow of water. I don't think in any instance has Earltown stopped the flow of ! water. If anything you might have been accused of increasing it, quote, because you are trying to.dry up all the wetlands. MR. MACELROY-I think that that was, as I read that letter, a point that was inferred probably, well there was an increase in that flow and that has changed the character.and nature of the wetland. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Tt,e welt dried up. R. MACELROY-1 don't know that that was.... )UNCILMAN MONTESI-The assumption was that the well was drying up because you're increasing the flow or decreasing the flow....an awful long way away to have an impact and I just couldn't determine if you were pumping the wetlands dry then you would have a heck of a flow of water that would be a torrential flood through that stream. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Doesn't necessarily effect a well. A well can come from a fisher and rock thing... you are comparing apples and peaches. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think there has been a great misunderstanding as to the size of the pumps and the volume of water that has been pumping off at the site to begin with. Secondly there have been no tenants on site or septic systems that were applied in the letter. The only septic system packaged in that area is not owned by Earltown but at the Warren-Washington Industrial Park and that does flow after it is treated into the stream across County Line Road into Dean Road. Publically we don't want to say that that is not at fault. It is not a fault. Our tests at this point do not bring out that they are doing anything improper as well as regards to this. But we have reviewed this with our engineers and we'll have a complete report on this. But our examination at this point indicates that there is nothing innocuous that has caused on our site from Earltown or as matter of fact off our site from Albany Engineering or from Dix Avenue through our site. i i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We're having a similar situation here in Town at the moment where we are looking at contaminated water and we find that water seems to cleanse itself fairly quickly even in the fairly small stream. So we go down the road an eighth of a mile, quarter 4 f a mile, half of a mile, and it is pretty much gone. You are talking about distances that re greater than that. . !\QTR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 like to point out that this stream that we are talking about is a class four stream. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay so it is not a class A, it' a class one then, trout stream. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Trout stream. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The fecal is still maintained even with the tertiary a treatment of package plan flowing into it. i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Dennis were you saying that there should be any language in here or... MR. MACELROY-Well I think my concern and maybe it is not at this point, but as Lread that letter it was, I read it to say that it was an increase in flow rates of the drainage way that had an effect on the well, it didn't-dry up, it just, it muddied the waters, sort of speak. That's what the contention was. Now again that's an historical event, it is something that happened, it is not related particularly to this project but it does caution us to consider what downstream flows of the projects will be after the project. The storm water management program that's been discussed and engineered as part of the project should guarantee that as a rule of thumb, post development close do not exceed predevelopment close. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So you are suggesting that we put another paragraph iri fiere, right? MR. MACELROY-I think that, well if we continue on, I think we've discussed,there is a discussion of the storm water situation in that is where there should be some clarification that that is the case. Now, I'll add another problem to that in a way, is that, I think the language is there but discusses not exceeding the capacity, the strain. I read that as, they explain it different, but maybe we should wait until we get to that point and we can deal with that. But I thought it appropriate if we discuss well impact and that consideration at that point the fact Earltown's has proceeded to look into that and we will receive some findings on that. It certainly is a benefit to themselves to get background samples, background conditions of stream, water flowing in and water flowing out so that in the future that Js recorded and it can be used to define or explain changes that may exist. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments in that section? If not, item E should be number `i. Any comments in that section? MR. MACELROY-1 guess that is my point Betty, is that I think that there is some feeling of the downstream property owners that possibly that pumping was done may have had some kind of impact and still ... of off-site streams or construction activities or... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That was the feeling that I got from it too. MR. MACELROY-And will prevent the flooding and erosion. This item, through hydrologic analysis the report demonstrates that with all elements of the management plan in place, with all elements of the management plan in place, the following conditions will be achieved: increased runoff due to development will be attenuated so that the project discharges will not cause overloading of downstream culverts and streambeds. Now that maybe is a round about way of saying that those flows won't be any greater than predevelopment flows. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think too, as I'm reading this Dennis, when it says with all elements of the management plan in place, the following condition will be achieved. MR. MACELROY-Right. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think there should be another sentence in there that at no time during that development, during the progress of this development will any of these adverse effects take place. You knovv what I mean. This is almost acting like, giving us adverse effects during the whole thing but as soon as we get it all done, yea, so you've got to put some kind of a qualifier in there I believe. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think if you go to the top of page 24 where it says prior to construction the overall drainage plans and designs, including pumping stations for groundwater control, will be submitted to the Town of Queensbury for its review and approval. Prior to our construction, Betty, we're not going to be able to undertake activity without coming back with those kinds i of details and informations. MR. MACELROY-Each step of the way under site plan review stormwater management should be addressed and while maybe certain ponds on a future golf course are not part of the stormwater ! management program at that time, they wouldn't necessarily be needed either because the ; I ' . I project has not reached that point. Let me add that in the eventuality, we-talked last week that, well it was an eighteen hole golf course or an thirty-six hole golf course, depending on market conditions and it may turn out depending on other conditions permanent conditions or whatever they may occur in the future. That obviously those stormwater management devices such as ponds on golf courses, there is no golf course, there still has to be the ponds naturally ...: - t COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Which may not be permitted to be in that area though either.` You know, it isn't only just the permit for the golf course you may not get, but you may not also get a permit fora pond. So some place in here we do have to have some kind of qualifying clause of the objec.0V6 viH be achieved at all stages. MR. BA13T1I0LOMEW-1 agree. But again prior to Earltown constructing anything, you have the final review over that drainage design, before we can construct anything. MR. MACELROY-Right. .In ghat, say approved design of the Town club it may also require other permits. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Dennis, you made a statement, a rule of thumb, is it a rule of thumb, engineering rule of thumb. FNCON rule of thumb that.... MR. MACELROY-My knowledge there is no specific requirements for stormwater discharge in New York State. I do some work in Vermont and they do have requirements there and specific permits. COUNCILMAN MONTESt--Because it is conceivable but if Earltown was creating ponds and using those ponds to irrigate the golf course, if you will, and I thought that was one of the scenarios that theoretically stormwater runoffs might be less than it is at present because it would be retained in ponds. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Well that is what it says on the top of page 24. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well it depends alot on your terrain that is created and what you are allowed to create under a permit system too. We're dealing with a kind of a tangible here because we don't know what is going to be permitted. So I think Dennis, I'm really going to leave this tip to you to see if we need to put some other language in there that will protect the Town in all eventualities. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, are we satisfied with that section and does that finish page ' 23? MR. MACELROY-Well I guess with the understanding that there would be some clarification in language. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We are dealing with a deadline, we are trying to work with a deadline so whatever clarification we ought to spell it out now so that .... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If not now, Dennis Gould have overnight to come up with this language and come back with it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Betty what is your wish? MR. MACELROY-Well Betty mentioned, for instance, something along the lines, even though ,. Ed has referred to this other cover statement prior to construction the overall drainage plan and designs, including, would be submitted for your approval.... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-While Dennis is thinking, don't we have-to renumber, number 5, the ones and twos, they should be a small a and b. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right if we are at that point. It should be small a, small b. Page 24, 3 should be small c, 4 should be d. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Do you think maybe it is a statement Dennis about what the objective that will have to be achieved all the way along not just at the final but a statement to that effect. Maybe you can work on and come up with? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-If we start to put that, prior to construction, that paragraph, put that paragraph first in that section, or second and indicate something... Regardless of what our objective, you are going to have final review and approval of that plan. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think there are a lot of those measures built in here at different points. Perhaps a page or two away from where they're first mentioned and you go back and forth by reference. It is pretty tight. It doesn't do any harm, I guess, to restate. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well, you know, it is one thing to say that when you get everything in place is none of this is going to happen. But you also do not want filtration at the very beginning of the elevation that you have to take. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-But bett we can't do an construction out there until we come to y y you for your approval. In toms of our first phase, we're going to have to come in and first of all you can't design this drsinage system in phases to begin with, it is an overall comprehensive plan that is being designed. But before we can put a shovel in at all to do any type of construction out there the necessary approvals will have to be In place and you are going to have a chance to look at that. So if we can add perhaps and indicate some broad objective on... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Betty on c, it says the siltration of downstream drainage, and down two sentences it says during construction phases of the project. So it states that it will be... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes but see what I was objecting to was up above it, through hydrologic analysis the report demonstrates that with all elements of the management plan s 5— I in place. But when they first start all elements will not be in place. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Alright, they say the following conditions will be achieved. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea, but what I am saying is when you got that all.elements of the management plan in place you are really saying that you don't have to achieve those at every phase along the way. It is when you get... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Well I think it does say that. COUNCILMAN MONAIiAN-Well I have a little problem with that wording right in there. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Part of the problem is that, what we went through with Hiland, they went through a big expense getting a permit to pump out from the Halfway Brook to refurbish three million gallon or a ten million gallon pond. They went through that whole thing, put the pump in and everything else and they have never yet turned the pump on because the pond won't go dry, it is refurbishing itself. So it is interesting that the best laid plans... now we've got a pump in the ground, in the pond or the stream, that maybe someday it will. But that particular pond that we built in there... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think they are going to pull that pump. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-He may. So that the best laid plans of management here are that we are not going to hydrologically disturb anything and that is the ultimate goal. In the process � you may be digging a pond and find that, this pond disappeared on us. r COUNCILMAN MONAHAN--But I think its their main stormwater and siltation are the things that are our concern because there has been some terrible bad messes both in the Town of Rueensbury and in other i'Aaces with siltation. I can think of the one, Steve over in your way, ! where half of the hill behind them fell down. Remember that? I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Absolutely. There was some problems there that shouldn't have happened. I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That's right. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What is your pleasure, what do you want to see? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't know. I'm just saying to Dennis, I would like your thoughts... MR. MACELROY-Betty, I suggested to add here some language that would relate to the phasing, at each phase to add, what did I say... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-...stormwater management control would be in place. MR. MACELROY-Would be in place at all phases of the project. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think the Town very soon will have a stormwater management plan. I've been asked to meet with Mr. Morton someday in the next few days to discuss the steps that his committee has been taking. I think you will probably see it long before you get into your phases. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Anything with two standards will apply to this even though it has been passed. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We have no problem with that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm sure you don't. Again I think people overlook the fact many times, we're trying to cover everybody and make sure it is done, but overlook the fact that if the developer makes a mess of its own project, the project is going to fall on its face. Its the developer's best interest to make it work and any adverse publicity, any adverse actual on premises problems, only going to make the thing falter. 1 I MR. MACELROY-That is right but I think it is important to point out, or try to get a handle on definition of responses. F SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Absolutely. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I happen to been taken, Steve by our prior Planner to a commercial development in this Town where the proper steps to control siltation along the stream were not taken in complete violation of what should have been and he wanted me to see a classic example. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-rm not aware of that site but we should certainly get-it cleaned up. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well this was before... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-One of the other things that I would just at least like a little clarification on is the intrical part of this whole system in some form of the drainage district and pumping. The pumping stations that Earltown is proposing or engineered, I think I asked the question, i will they have portable generation? MR. MACELROY-They start into that in the next paragraph. It hasn't, to my knowledge really been discussed or resolved. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Because its a question the Town has to ask. If you are going to give it to me, do I need, number one, once you give it to me, buy myself a big Honda motor and put it on a trailer so my public works can go out and keep the pumps going or are we going to do it the way we are presently. The Town of Queensbury has a pump station, we've got a generator. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But isn't this a question that is really answered in itself because { there is going to be a drainage district and if the Town feels a stand-by power is needed, `-- we'll buy one and charge it to the drainage district. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well yea, but if the drainage district in its conception will put it in. That is the only question I am having. If it is that critical... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-In the document I believe we will specify this right here. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Okay, it is good clarification. MR. MACELROY-Would it be, is it anon-site permanent backup generator or is it a trailer mounted one that you would run around to each? You get into that situation with pumps and sewage pump stations which certainly is more important... SUPERVISOR BORGOS=We have on-site permanent. MR. MACELROY-Right, which is a requirement when you go to design construction.... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I don't know how many pump stations we're going to have here but... MR. MJAATVEDT-Well I mean if you have five pump stations and a power outage, they're all out,trailer mounted units. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You are not talking about very large, you are not talking about big power needs for small pumps. COUNCILMAN MONTESi I don't think its a question of who or what, I think its a question of shouldn't we have this Kind of.... 6 COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Should it be designed right in the first place of the designs phase. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Anything else on Page 24? I think we'd like to work until 6 o'clock and take a five minute stretch. I thought we'd be done. In fact I had money bet on the fact we'd get out of here by five-thirty. That is all right. MR. MACELROY-This drainage district has been at least talked about the fact that there will be a certain area that's deeded to the Town and those components of the drainage system, the piping, the pump station, the generators that are part of that, the Town will be taking over, responsible for the, the drainage district will be responsible for the entire cost of the separation and maintenance by the Town of Queensbury. This is as it is proposed, the district would be formed and those users within the district would be responsible for those costs...with the infrastructure provided by the.project sponsor. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That particular costs has no bearing on the tax payers for the Town of the Queensbury except those that are serviced in that district. MR. MACELROY-Now, the question I have is you get a district which is, lets say its within the area of the single family development in the west portion of the project and there are eventually 287 units, 287 lawns within that, and as that is developed and it was discussed �-- that the project sponsor would maybe build some houses but then sell lots and other developers would come in, so those lots will fill in a piece meal fashion. Are the costs of that district of those non-sold lots are responsibility of the project sponsor or.... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Who ever owns the lots., COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Who ever owns the lots. I mean there ought to be a charge on tax rolls. The way these districts are charged sometimes, you do for the sewer districts, you have some formulas. I don't know what you are going to do for drainage district. You know what I mean, you did it partially unused and so on and so forth.... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That will have to be determined. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That whole capital expenditure is done so there is no bonding . The only thing you will have to figure out at the end of the first year is the operating and _maintenance and that may be minuscule but I mean, Tom Flaherty in Water and Paul Naylor - have had all those kind of little small districts. We've got one now that we have a problem, there is 34 homes in it, we'vc got to spend 24,000 dollars to upgrade a small package sewer facility and we are doing it, but-the burden is immense on those 34 people. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay we are back.on page 24. Anybody have any other comments on that page? MIKE HALE-I have one quick question on the separation of ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Which paragraph? MR. HALE-It starts out, the drainage system in the golf course. It kind of blends in with G� the rest of it. This separation of the golf course drainage and the rest of the drainage system, 1 as I understand it, the golf course drainage is in the portion of the fire drainage system. i I wonder how that is going to be separated? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Prior to the construction we will be submitting detailed plans to the Town for its review and acceptance which will detail. Essentially the drainage system on-site of the golf course will be operated and maintained by the golf course. We have discussed this with Mr. Naylor, who will be quite familiar with that operation and the coordination. The key interval part of this system is not the golf course drainage really as much as the drainage system in the residential areas. If the worst case scenario would be is that the drainage ;1 system flooding would occur on the golf course. The operation of the drainage system that is owned by the drainage district and maintained by Paul Naylor, will be Town operated, Mike. MR. MACELROY-On the flip side then is there any potential for Town not living up to their responsibility and effecting your golf course? I mean there is the overflow system of the gravity. If they don't maintain the pumps for instance, then there is that all gravity system within .... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-It would run into place. The worst case scenario is that you are flooding a couple of hole any of the residential or commercial areas on the golf course and not . As we said in there that we will provide for a written coordinating drainage plan of operation on that area, Mike, in that next paragraph, between the Town of Rueensbury Officials and the golf course management to coordinate at that point. This basically came out of the discussions from the Town Board a few weeks ago that we then started working with Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Naylor on how to break and branch this issue out of drainage and who assumes what . Essentially the capital cost of the entire drainage system is borned by the development and y the maintenance and operations is also born b the development so that there is no cost that --� will be charged back to the Town of Rueensbury tax payers outside this district. MR. MACELROY-Let me just mention this. We sitting here now have all good intentions about this type of thing. I think this is just the type of condition that is talked about now and somewhere gets lost in language and conditions that are placed, and then referred back to and somebodies memory is ... this that and the other thing... so this is just an example of those types of things that have to be clearly defined in the resolution, the PUD resolution itself. It is easy for the Planning Board for instance they are body that is going to be responsible for checking back on these issues so it is clear to them. A red flag goes up and here is something that should be taken care of COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I trust that between you and Paul this will be watched closely while the PUD is being done and that nothing gets left out. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-It would appear that an infinite amount of coordination is necessary. If you are going to build houses that have a drainage system that you are going to deed and the drainage system is served by ponds, if you will, ponds and streams within the golf course confiding, you also have to build, maybe not the golf course in its entirety but you have to build the ponds that these h^ttsec are going to flow to. The worst scenario is that the golf course has the ability to either open a damn and let the water flow or turn the pumps on to irrigate the golf course. One or the other but at the very worst situation is that we will always maintain dry basements, water table levels in the residential area and as you point out Ed, a fairway maybe flooded i f that is the case. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That is the worst case scenario. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Not such a bad situation. But that is pretty well defined though, isn't it Dennis? I got that, that we would maintain certain things and they were going to handle the golf course part of it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But Dennis is saying that this must be transferred to the PUD resolution so that it becomes a legal document. MR. MACF.LROY-And then beyond that follow through on in the Planning review process, the site plan review. Being on the other side of the fence, you know what we say here today gets somewhat lost in the shuffle, and there will be certain things here that I'm sure will not seem as important down the road as they,do here today, they will be insignificant, but there will be other issues that will probably surface that we didn't think of at this time,that also need to be addressed. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think again, in reference to that, again we had to state language thatprior to the actual construction we will be submitting these plans and designs to the Town. So I think what we tried to do is number one, within our findings of fact and in the PUD attach conditions and then beyond that, beyond the conditions is indicate that again this is not the final opportunity that the Town of Rueensbury is going to have to review portions of this project. So we tried to build in reminders and red flags along the way for all of us, for the developer and the Town to do this. As prior to the construction there is going to have to be I'm sure with Mr. Roberts, when we get to that point is going to ask for that written coordinated 'rainage plan. R. MACELROY-Let me just throw in one more comment. That, we've been aware, we've -rscussed it about additional permits that will be required, part of the project and they in fact change somewhat the nature what can be built up here. Regarding stormwater, I think there is another permit that is not clear is whether it is appropriate or not. But it has been discussed, it is something that tho project sponsor will have to address and at least get a write off, if its not, its a ... of engineers, 404 is the, and that does deal with downstream discharge of stormwater. Understand that that is also something that the .... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Stitt have to check and balance too. MR. MACELROY-Correct. I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, how about top of page 25, just first paragraph, down to number 6 and then we will break for five minutes. Letter F becomes number 6. (returned from break). We hope this is not a marathon type thing. But it is a very important day,for everybody, it really is. An important day for the Town and an important day for the developer. We have an obligation to go through this thoroughly. Lets go back to page 25, item F is changed to 6, let's see if we have any questions. I have a question. The first paragraph under 6 where is says, Earltown Corporation will pay its fair share of the cost to expand the water treatment plant, if necessary. Well we already know it is necessary. We are already going through the expansions. So why don't we strike those words, if necessary? Somehow here we also have set forth how that is going to be accomplished. I would propose that the prorata cost of the new one at their build out usage. Now that I suppose could be phased i or something. But we know we are expanding partially because of our current needs but Amarily because of the increases we see coming and we have to do it in five million gallon �.Ats. Mr. Bartholomew is dying to answer. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-No, I think that fortunately this is one of the things that everybody talks about prorata, what does it exactly mean. We put that in basically to be consistent with the prior planned unit development. We are not saying because it is Hiland Park, it is just the prior language we had put-in there based on what was said there, was prorata share of the cost to expand the Queensbury Water Treatment Plant in order to supply the planned unit development. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If you took it from this point of view, just for the sake of putting something on the table. Right now we pump and use five million gallons a day, we probably use it more than that in peak season. The next five million gallon expansion is there to accommodate specifically, I mean you know it is no kidding around with it, there is one fifty thousand or five hundred thousand gallons, that you are requesting or we have to know we have to provide for you and another half a million for Hiland. What is five hundred thousand of .... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-One-tenth. Five hundred fifty thousand gallons, which is mentioned at the bottom of this page over five million, it is just a whisker over ten percent of the cost. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Of the usage. SUPERVISOR SORGOS-Of providing it., Now the question comes... I OUNCILMAN MONTESI-You've got to understand what we're talking about. We maybe Biking about a filtration plant expansion that could run eight million dollars. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The last number I saw was six point something. My concern here is that we spell this out and at least in some kind of specifics before next week. So that maybe you can have an option, I don't know, maybe the option could be to pay it on the basis of this new plant coming out now, once you find that you have all of your approvals, if you get your approvals or maybe there could be an option to pay some in each phase based on the then current replacement cost of providing this kind of quantity because it maybe that by the time you are looking five years from now, and needing quite a bit of water, we might be into our fifteen million gallon a day capacity. In the first few years it is going to he little if anything. You'll be doing a lot infrastructure work, you're not going to be drawing much. So maybe it should be that, when you start to hook up, specific chunks, not a few dollars but a hundred thousand a year or two hundred or something. Maybe you can do some thinking between now and Monday. ' . COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Steve you also have to think, well they don't need all of it for - twenty years, unfortunately we can't build the plant that way. We have to put the expense up front. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I think the important thing is that if that kind of formulation, ten percent is fair, and I don't mean to say... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Actually its eleven. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-And if we're looking at, we're looking at figures of six million dollars for this filtration expansion, I think it is important that you have in your mind that for twenty years the capital cost that we're looking at today is six hundred thousand. Is that something f reasonable to you, is that something you had in mind, is that way beyond what you thought i it would be? We need to at least make sure that these kind of numbers in a formulation is fair. We're dealing with something now that happened in the past that we didn't have a kind of formulation and we've got all kinds of numbers up in the air. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 guess my question I would ask is, Earltown does not mind, we are obligated to pay our fair share as long as its consistent with what your policy has been with other... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes that would be identical to the last planned unit development. We are working out the final dollars now but the exactly the same concept. You will find that it is substantially below perhaps what some smaller developers have had to pay because j there weren't any formulas in place. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I think that where we have some flexibility, I think we're offering you some flexibility is, lets look at a few alternatives as to how you phase it. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Steve have you been in contact with Kestner by any chance because he does all our water, maybe at his suggestion a formula for this type of thing? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We are working, Paul and I are working with Mr. Kestner and Mr. Montesi at the present time to try to refine some of the previously done items. How else can I say that without answering your questions. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 realize that but I'm talking about in the future for a formula that we can put in this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes it is in the works. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But I think maybe before we come up with a formula for here eve should contact Quentin foie any, for this particular one I'm talking about, not for... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-This kind of thinking, what percentage of the new filtration plant, that kind of flow... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well I think we're going to have to start looking at impact fees and a lot of things in this Town and not just in PUDs but subdivisions all over. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We've got to get to that formula basis for everybody, so that everybody is treated equally. We are going in that direction and as we refine the Hiland Park formula we can apply the same formula.here and throughout. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If you have four specific phases every five years, that maybe one way of looking at it. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth but I'd like to be as definitive as we can. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-In the other hand, we also have to protect the Town if we are putting up a plant with the expectation that they are going to use a certain amount of water, and if some of the their phases don't go through and we don't have anybody to pick it up, we don't want the general tax payers picking up their-gamble that didn't pay off. AIR. MACELROY-Or even, getting on a more basic level, that the project does go through and this estimation of five hundred fifty thousand gallons a day that .... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You'd have. MR. MACELROY-Yea, I.mean inevitably text book rates for water and sewer usage and discharge are not what the actual usage turns out to be. .Its a conservative figure placed on... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN -And social customs changes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We're working on this kind of a formula at the County level with the solid waste plant, proposed plant. And we're looking at a situation where certain capacity is reserved. If that capacity isn't being used at a time, there is permission to perhaps use that in another way. In this particular case we had to expand by five million gallons. We couldn't expand by two million gallons. We had to expand by five million. So we could reserve the capacity I suppose at a certain charge or reservation charge plus a little bit of contribution towards the capital. With the thought that if its not being used it could be sold to be somebody else, or you might have to wait for the next expansion to come on. So there are a lot of ways to do that. But we could look at some of them between now and Friday. So we might just have to bring the language a little bit closer but there is a way to do it and it would be fair 1 nd equitable. 1 think the same thing Mr. Bartholomew was driving at perhaps. L IR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think the other point that Dennis was making too is the fact that, the figures that we have, five fifty is a max figure. Obviously we want to provide that so that we don't have to comeback and say'that we need six or seven hundred thousand at the five fifty. So the question then comes, we have no problem of putting some factor in there to allow you to sell that excess through the fifteen twenty years, that conservation efforts are going to be more and more refined, and that gallonage may be less than that. So I think we can try to incorporate some language. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right, and if the project reaches all your approval stages for a certain fee you can reserve this for a period of time. A small fee, I'm not thinking of huge numbers. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm hoping your covenants on your subdivision, water saving mixtures, bathroom accessories. MR. MJAATVEDT-We were talking about that today. Toilets would be... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Down to one gallon now. Showerheads. It seems so dumb, to treat all this water and then just throw it out. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments on page 25? MR. MACELROY-I just have one question. We had discussed this before and maybe I'm just confused, is the transition between the old plant and an upgrade of the water treatment plant. thought that I understood that you say that there was a formula in place that somebody Joked on now, got a charge that took care of their initiation fees, as it were, for paying �-�,_)me cost of that original construction. But now we've turned the page and I guess you are probably looking at the new plant with new costs and a division of... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes and there has to be an assignment of a little bit of the old plant. Some of the things in the old plant don't have to be rebuilt but the amount left there is very small. We've had a situation where there were three separate projects, developments that I am aware of, three separate subdivisions, each one of the subdivisions used a different number. We can't find any consistency whatever in the formulas. So that is why in finalizing Hiland Park and this project we want to be sure to use a formula that is appropriate and that is consistent. And then we can apply that in the future to other subdivisions and we might be somewhere where we can handle it. But right now the numbers are all over the ball park. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 guess I look to the Town Attorney at this point Paul, for what language would you like to see incorporated in there for us to agree to this formula so that we can kind of lock that up. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Ed, one of the things that concerns me that we're wrestling with right now is that we have in place a very qualified engineering estimate for what our filtration plant expansion costs. We h.-d in place a very qualified estimate for what our pump station would cost on Meadow Brool, Road. We had two or three different things that caused us some concerns. Number one we ha.d to move the location. Number two it became more costly to build. So that what I need, not to preempt anything that Paul is going to tell you, but I °ed to know if you are going to pay a percentage of the actual construction costs when they ?e done or are you going to pay a percentage of the estimate? That is really important because �_�ppose the actual... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think that is Town policy. You tell us what we have to pay. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think you are looking for a contingency formula that will take care of the end expectant like when you have to take'Water out of the ground, when the lines are going through and you've got to pump all that kind of stuff. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We're arguing with a guy right now. s � � COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea. COUNSEL DUSEK-I think my comment in that regard, a lot of it would depend on where we go with this matters that we presently have before us that we're looking into. I guess in the first instance, Ron hits a good point that you first have to decide whether you want to go with estimated cost or actual cost. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 don't think you can go with estimate cost because of by the time this gets out and by the time they do all their borings and different things like, I don't" think, and new government regulations that may come down the pike, you can not do .... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is why I am proposing an initial payment of some sort and they have small progress payments and then the last payment to be the difference between what the estimate was and what the actual... COUNSEL DUSEK-So that the estimated payment, it should be clear is an estimate as to that amount of the payment which will be subject to change, increase or decrease based upon the final construction cost. i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We can put a number in there which we could say represents an estimate l as of this date. So everybody knows roughly where you're going to be. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-If were asking for five hundred fifty thousand gallons of yearly amount, take that percent, we agree that we are not going to hold the Town to project a cost, its got to be actual cost. I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right, which may be less, the projected is. Hard to conceive of that but... i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I don't have a problem. I think any time you look a projection costs that's just to give everybody a rough idea of what the approximate cost are going to be. i COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Okay, so where is going to be stated? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Alright so we would say that it is going to be a percentage of usage... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Actual cost. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Actual cost and maybe the first payment would be based on an estimate. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-At the time of approval of your first site plan perhaps, phase one, yould pay twenty percent or thirty percent of the estimate... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Of the estimate and we'll balanced it out when the actual cost is known. MR. MACELROY-Is that based on the usage of the phase or just... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It should.be on the usage of the phase. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't agree with you. We've got to do percentage of the plant because if we're building the plant for their estimate and they're only using a hundred thousand we still have to put that money up there and borrow it.... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Except in this particular case, we can only build in modules of five million. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I realize this. But what I'm saying is we have to build into that five million what their projected use is and if you're going on that there actually at the stage where there only using fifty thousand gallons a day and then somebody else is picking that up. You have to figure what they projected to use cause that is why we built that size of a plant. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right and if they could pay a fee to reserve some of that.'Otherwise we've got lots of people I think lined up to supply that. COUNCILMAN_MONTESI-Phase one is probably, without a doubt, probably if you looked at' it broken down, twenty-five oercent of the volume of water that you're using. Probably the ptuise'two where you're talking; shout the Inn and the Hotel, if that is correct chronologically, maybe the phase that you dun't use as much. So if you would, equally, twenty-five percent. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea but the houses are going to be built all over a long period of time though too. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You would equally of four payments.... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think again maybe we're just kicking something around we don't know that much about and it ought to be maybe in Kestner's hands, he has probably done a lot of this. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I know but I think that at least the idea, our theory has got to he understood here. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Policy as a percentage... �!UPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes because it is causing us to take some time and the regular course f business, and I think we should address it now. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The percentage of actual cost is, everybody agrees to that, the first phase, the first site plan review phase, it will be a percentage of the estimate. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So we'll let the legal guys put the language together, I think they're better than we are. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-As I say I think your water engineer who you know probably deals with this sort of thing all the time. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Oh sure. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We have been working right along, not only with Dennis but Quentin Kestner and Tom Flaherty on this and of course you're not moving quickly ahead with the Water Plant. Where as last year when we were talking it was just a concept or a thought at that time to expand. At Lhat point you were talking about how much you_were really going to expand, whether it was going to be five or ten million gallons depending on your negotiations with other communities. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-At I he moirient it is five million but it could easily spring up to ten. million if things fall in place whenever. You never know what is going to happen. OUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But that would not change, that wouldn't make their burden anymore 3 matter whether we go five or ten. ' SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It won't make it any great deal less either. We've found there is no significant savings going to ten million gallons. We hoped there would be. Page 26, any comments there? Again you get into the concept in a number of places of the flow of either clean water, treated water or waste water. I think the same type of language should be used to take care of that. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Paul made a comment something about the capital contribution charges. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Capital contribution charges to the City, the last we looked at this we were looking at seventy-five cents per gallon on an average daily flow basis. There are a number of negotiations in progress that if accomplished within the next six months or so. if your project moves along, that should be the maximum number you're looking at, seventy-five j cents per gallon. Which has been the standard number. It may also be the minimum, it may be the number. + I MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think that should be incorporated in there then. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The Town paid that. Ed, you were in the administration then. Hiland is paying that and its good that it is being made to be constant. 'TJPERVISOR BORGOS-1 expect that that number will stay but you don't know. fif i ,OUNCILMAN MONTESI-1 have one question that I raised it only, we might as well get it {it in public. One of the other projects that the water committee is working on is a replacement for a parallel sixteen inch waterline down Quaker Road. We presently go, at Lafayette Street, we go from sixteen inch to twelve inch, it runs twelve inch all the way back to Albany Engineering and then we go back to a sixteen inch line. We're finding that we are having some problems with that twelve inch line, there is.some breakdown of that line. It concerns us, that's the main feed. Its been proposed by Kestner, we have a million dollar estimate for not replacing that line but paralleling that line. The routing is done so that that line will be hopefully a project that will be in place within the next year and a half. Its interesting, it will be digging up, working around Warren County on Quaker Road but that is needless to be. What's the Board's pleasure on that? That is going to be a Town wide bonding issue and I don't think that whether Earltown or Hiland, they're there, obviously this is one of the, I don't think we're doing that because they're there. So I'm sort of asking the Board, this million dollars that we're going to be spending is there, should it be part of their responsibility? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It is going to be born by the district. They will be part of the district. So they'll pick up their fair share as it happens. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I want to make that clear. I feel that way myself. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That has to go in, it is not specifically for them there, there are holes in the other line. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Ron, I'd like to correct something you said for Becky, so she won't put it in the paper that way. Its not a town wide charge, it is a water district wide charge because it is a special type of thing. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Sorry. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments on page 267 There are a couple of estimates there that are reasonably close to what they would be, all subject to revision of course. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Maybe that's what should go in here, that any estimate of charges is subject to revisions. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We can add that further language. These are estimates only, subject to revisions. That would help. Page 27 is much of the same type of language, prorata and once we come up with the language for that, I think it should be inserted there, wherever j prorata is indicated. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-There is an agreement, does Earltown agree to the upsizing of the pump station or no, or is that just Hiland? j SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Hiland had agreed to the increase in size of the Meadow Brook Road sewer pumping station. They don't need all the increase that was theirs. So there is some capacity there and it is believed that a portion of your proposed development could be fed j into that, easier anyway. Whatever new pumping station has to go in would have to be another 9 expense to the development. But-a prorata apportionment of the other system then would, make sure that all of that has been paid for. The Town has paid for a portion, Hiland has paid for a portion, if you come in, a portion that would be yours. There is some capacity reserved for you at the moment. MR. MACELROY-We're talking about the portion of Quaker-Ridge, western which is in an existing Queensbury Sewer District. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Correct. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Two hundred thousand. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It says two hundred here. I don't think that is the latest number . I think the latest number is a hundred or a hundred and fifty. That is why I am saying, that is subject to determination and you've got approximately, and approximately is probably the word. MR. MJAATVEDI,-Does the new sewer piping, does that piping flow to Meadow Brook now ? Is that, in other words, annthing on Ridge Road is there today? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Flows to Meadow Brook. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That pump station was upsized specifically for two things. It was upsized for Hiland and I think it was upsized in anticipation of your approval, a small percentage of it. You are already in the sewer district so that I don't think we're talking big, big dollars, but I think there is a fair share of apportment. i { MR. MJAATVEDT -You've answered my question. We understand also that in order to get into 1 that system we have to lift to that point anyway, because Ridge Road is higher than that site. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I was thinking of the Ridge line... I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But you probably need a relatively small pump station compared to the eight hundred thousand gallon. MR. MJAATVEDT -We've already discussed that with Kestner. MR. BARTIIOLOMEW-Just to clarify that one issue on that particular pumping station here so we've got it down. Are you saying that you want a statement in there that Earltown will pay for that increase. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-14o, I think you've covered that. -1-MR BARTHOLOMEW-Well, we have in a general wa'y,,but I think on that one perhaps we should be specific and say that Earltown will pay for our prorata share for that particular pumping station. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think you've said it a couple of times. But fine, I think that would he better to state it again. In curcurrent with changing the language in this document if you legal guys again would go through and change that in the resolution. Any significant changes that have been made here so that the resolution presented on Monday would be directly reflected of the changes here. We don't have to go through and make all those changes again. 1 think that would be a wise thing to (to. COUNSEL DUSEK-This would be the resolution referring to the establishment of the PUD. PERVISOR BORGOS-The PUD. Many of these things are expressed in identical faction „that resolution. I would propose that the attorney for the developer meet with the Town Attorney prior to our meeting on Monday and go over the language. Be sure that all of these I changes have been made in both places. That will save us the problem of going through item by item again. You'll have most of Monday if needed. COUNSEL DUSEK-1 have... I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You have court? i COUNSEL DUSEK-Yes. No, Oh Monday, I was going, well, we've got another problem, we can take that up later, I guess. While we are on the topic though I was going to ask, this as well of the developer. There is an awful lot of statements in here that the developer will do certain things. Every page is filled with a number of items that the developer will do. I would like to recommend to the Board that the developer furnish, I guess an affidavit or some sort of an agreement on his part that tie will in fact, you know that basically outlines these same things. This finding statement is only binding on the Board, it doesn't really bind the developer to anything. Likewise the resolution that the Board will pass does not bind the developer to anything. I think we ought to have a separate written commitment from the developer stating all of the things that the Board has found, that he will do. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Paul you had requested that last meeting, and we will have that, signed by Earltown, and that will incorporate the conditions. )UNSEL DUSEK-Now there is also a second concern I have and that is the copy of the letter nt I received from Ed. It indicates that the PUD extension of time is to the seventeenth �..- is the findings statement. Now if we are going, if the Board is going to be considering the findings statement, I guess we're going to get through this on Friday through Monday and then if we are going to be reviewing the resolution or working on the resolution between Ed and myself on Monday, we're going to run into a time problem. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You want to do the meeting later, six or seven? COUNSEL DUSEK-I guess maybe my first question is, is the idea that on Monday to pass both the findings statement and the PUD resolution? If that is the case then it is going to be awful close. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We hope to have early Friday morning by nine o' c!: the ci zcumvnt to you Patel. "UPI=F.VISOR BORGOS-We'd have the revised findings statement and the resolution to establish ` the PUD. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-There are three documents. You'll have the findings of fact that will be hand delivered to you, to Environmental Design Partnership. You'll have the PUD resolution with the changes and you'll have the affidavit from Earltown. COUNSEL DUSEK-Okay. 'JPERVISOR BORG"OS-That will be a nice neat package then. There will be separate votes ! -a- each of the two items. We won't vote on the affidavit. MR. BARTIOLOMEW-No. I e'll have that at nine o'clock Paul if you feel that upon your... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-"Yo-u raid you had some problem. COUNSEL DUSEK-Well the other problems, I guess, it is no big secret, there was a planning conference that was going to be held down in Kingston on Monday, that I was going to go to. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That is right, we need to be there for that... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We'll have to let the Planner go and bring back the word. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You can't bring all of it, there is so much of it to be cover in .k there, alot of legal stuff that Paul really, I saw that agenda and he really should go to that. I MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We would not object to extend to Tuesday at four o'clock to accommodate your conference. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We already have another meeting scheduled. We have the meeting set on Monday at four. Is there a public hearing set for that? I believe there is. COUNSEL DUSEK-That is true too, so I think... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Your work will be done. t SUPERVISOR BORGOS-He has to be here when we finalize anything. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-There is a lot of stuff in there that boy you really need some attorney to go to that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It's a busy place. COUNSEL DUSEK-Well I think, obviously there should be other conferences coming up in the future. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Maybe there will be one in the Bahamas or some place. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Steve, the state is ...that department, the state has just abandoned that area that is giving this planning conference, it is going to be the last one they give. s SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We'll Lend him to one in California or Florida. i COUNSEL DUSEK-The Bar Nssociation will most likely have more. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-when is our public hearing, Darleen? TOWN CLERK IYOUGHER-...the Local Law. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I know the attorney has to be present for that. j COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, we can just do that, do that part and then we can comeback - on Tuesday and do ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Tuesday, I am going to be out of Town. We're going to be taking a County Solid Waste trip to Connecticut on Tuesday all day, seven a.m. to midnight or whatever. I forgot about that. That was just set up today. Tuesday would be out, I think we better stick with Monday and to reschedule that conference, if you don't mind. COUNSEL DUSEK-That will be fine. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think they should.start teaching those darn conferences and that would help everybody... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Again to accommodate the Board, we would not object to go to Wednesday at four o'clock. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-We have something on Wednesday. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-A budget meeting, but we can postpone that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think we are locked right on through. Lets stick to Monday. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-We're sorry Paul. COUNSEL DUSEK-No that is all right. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I know, I don't know if Paul is sorry, as I've said I've looked at the meetin g and some of the things that we've been having problems with that I was.,hoping ' Paul could go to. COUNSEL DUSEK-Certainly it is a worthwhile conference but I think alot of the things I would pick up at the conference, I'll pick up through other means and there will be other conferences that will be sponsored from time to time. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Speaking of solid waste, page 27 H, which is now 8. Which talks about the waste at the Joint Resource Recovery Project. Nobody knows the fate of that and I don't know if it is agreeable with everybody to leave that in or if you want to say that if the Resource Recovery Project does not construct, then Quaker-Ridge will follow regulations prescribed. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well they've got that. f SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Whatever is in effect at the time in the Town. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-In the second paragraph on that Steve, it really says this, if this E alternative proves to be unworkable. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You're right. I had read that the other day, and I just saw this other bit. I apologize, it is all set. COUNSEL DUSEK-In this regard there is another statement which I would like to recommend is removed from this. That is the statement of, regardless, Earltown encourages Town Officials to promote a Town wide recycling program. I think that that is a statement from Earltown and not a statement by this Board and the findings of fact. r �PF,RVISOR BORGOS-Okay. I i BARTHOLOMEW-I should have noted that, I picked that up in our prior... f COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-In the other one, Earltown will assist in recycling efforts. Are you just going to take out one sentence or you going to take out more than one sentence. COUNSEL DUSEK-No, I think that ones fine that Earltown wants... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea, that Earltown will assist in recycling efforts. j I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Then we'll build the landfill on their property with the proper clay soils. You've got some of the best clay in the region. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-The previous Town Board at one time, threatened to drain Lake i Sunnyside and put the landfill there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Now there is an idea, I hadn't considered that. Page 27, number 9. I don't want to move along but yes I do because, I don't want to overlook anything but lets go. Everything is going underground. Number 10, says everything is the way it supposed to be. Page 28... i } COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait a minute. I don't know if we want to put this in here or not. I know its going in the PUD. Earltown Planned Unit Development will have standards (` iich meet or exceed those standards established by the Town of Queensbury and its going be with the understanding is that when they bring in these different phases it will be the Landards that are in place at that time, not the standards that are in place at the time the e U D is approved. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is it stated anywhere else? I'm just wondering if it is stated anywhere else. I don't recall seeing it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-°avl pnd I discussed this, and he said that it should begin the PUD statement itself or the resolution. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Lets put it in both. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. So in effect at the time of final approval of each section. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Approval of each phases, final approval of the phases. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right. Final approval of each phase. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think maybe we should say standards and fees. COUNSEL DUSEK-I don't think we have to specify the fees. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Now we are on page 28. Somebody had recommended along the way I hat a sentence be added to paragraph, actually the first full paragraph on page 28. To say wnething to the effect that these review powers shall in no way take the place of or reassert k4e powers of the Town Board, Zoning Board, the Planning Board and so forth. I think that _..`as mentioned the other day. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That's correct. COUNSEL DUSEK-Perhaps with regard to the statement, efforts will be made to encourage i individual builders, I presume that that will be Earltown's efforts. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. COUNSEL DUSEK-Maybe we should clarify that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Earltown will make efforts. COUNSEL DUSEK-Earltown will provide, I guess in the deed that the construction will begin within one year. Is that the idea there too? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Further down that page we talked the other day briefly about the placement of radio antennas and satellite stations. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 think you've got to back up because I think probably Paul wants to qualify to that next paragraph too, construction of such building. COUNSEL DUSEK-1 think that that would put in probably the deeds will provide or something to that effect. t SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is in accordance with our current Building Permits anyway, vie have one year building permit. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Don't you've got some more stuff about landscaping and everything? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is true. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think all of these things have to be modified by Earltown's conveyance or something. You know the barns, the trailer, all that kind of stuff. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I don't have any problems with that, just barns, trailers and other types of movable homes. Barns, why did you figure that was...you mean a shed, metal shed, is that what it would mean. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Metal sheds. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Oh they're saying something that doesn't have a permanent footing. They won't permit something that doesn't have a permanent footing, I think that is what they are saying. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well what if they put a barn up? l SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about just sheds instead of the word barns? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-They may want a barn in there. If those estates come and... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I know that is what I'm saying. They may want a barn. If a guy buys three or four acres and says he's got a country gentlemen estate, I don't know. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Why don't we say any type of moveable home? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The barn, you are excluding that. Maybe that isn't such a good idea. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That would be the conveyance of the PUD. MR. MACELROY-When I read that, I just wondered about construction trailers. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That is temporary. MR. MJAATVEDT-You always have construction trailers. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-A strict reading Dennis, I would agree. What we want to put, if you start at the beginning and say the following would be provided in the deeds in some language to the effect of construction trailers. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-By the way, the Town needs to look through its ordinance about trailers not being allowed in storage, relationship to a business because you'll find they are going on. So I suggest the building department... i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thats already in and the Fire Marshal is out after that again and f his code guys are cleaning it up. 'I COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What about the prohibition of antennas? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Antennaes, what did we decide on that? 1 L COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-They can probably do it by covenant but we can't do it under Town law. So again all of these things have got to be qualified by Earltown conveyance will or something. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We just had a very hard problem with that because it violated... SUI'it,t`v'iSGR BORGOS-The first amendment. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The first amendment. Whether you can write it into your covenants or not is up to you but we couldn't do it in our ordinance. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But these are supposed to be otir findings so we have to be careful how those are worded. COUNSEL DUSEK-Well the findings, really at this point, I guess just to be saying that this is what you find and that there going to include to be. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-On page 29, the language is confusing. Item K, which should now he number 11, says there is no significant impact to community services are expected to;cur due to this project and then it says however with proper coordination this project won't 1 !•esent any undue hardship. Should that have been written, significant impact will occur bwever with proper coordination, it won't be a problem? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think there are two different issues here that we were trying to address of impact and then also the question of hardship or problems which tend to be on a lesser degree if you will. COUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-Still, 1 don't think you can say though, no significant impact to community services. You've already showed there is going to be an impact on the roads, you've got an impact on the schools, you've got an impact on the fire company. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thai: N why I'm thinking just a language change in that first sentence. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well I think you've got to define, we're talking about community services here. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What community services are your fire companies and schools and so on and so forth. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes Betty, when you said roads. You know this section doesn't apply to roads or transportation or traffic. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What is community services? TR. BARTHOLOMEW-Community services are Police, Fire. LOUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-I mean when you bring in that many people in and that many acres are being developed, there is no way but your going to have a significant impact. So I mean I think the word no has to go out of there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 think just changing that first sentence and leaving the second as - is. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-An impact may not be significant but an impact to community services are expected. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I would propose and lets talk about it, but I would propose getting rid of the word no and saying significant impact to community services are expected to occur due to the implementation of this project and then by the next sentence you show how you mitigated that. We can argue with that. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 have to take a little issue on the word significant, which I agree that impact. In our correspondence that we have from the two school districts and from the Glens j Falls Hospital, from the Police and so forth, they do not use the word significant. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. I MR. BARTHOLOMEW Dennis would you agree with that? VIR. MACELROY-Yea, you do have a section that sends that position but I think there could )e some adjustment on the language here. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-1 mean how are you going to say when you put you're putting up how many houses and this all this stuff that say on South Rueensbury Fire Company there is not a significant impact. I mean that is more than they are taking care of already. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Put in some significant impact. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mrs. Potenza indicated the word some as a qualifier in front of significant. Some significant impact, impacts. MR. MACELROY-Simple impacts to community services are expected to occur during the implementation of the project. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-However, with proper coordination those would be minimized. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Part of the coordination is working with the rescue squad, working with... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-And they've already proposed to make some assistance available for the South Rueensbury Fire Department and the Bay Ridge Rescue Squad. Can you live with that? It looks almost as though that's what you had intended to say. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I have no problem with that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So_we'll say some impacts to community service? Y COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That's good. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Or why don't you put impacts, period? Dennis just said why don't we just take out any qualifying word and just say impacts and then we're not trying to qualify f the type of impacts? . BORGOS-Can you live with that? I can live with that. SUPERVISOR y COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Okay. f SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about the next paragraph? 1 t COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Down to the second paragraph, but with Earltown's policy of paying its fair share, the project will not create any more difficulty or financial burdens on community services. I would like to change the word will to should not. I don't think we can really use the word will. That's having a crystal ball. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think if that's the way this group votes that would be the finding. F Now the next paragraph, you've indicated some assistance. Have you got some more detail that you wish to share at this point, or give us Friday? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We'd lilac to add to this briefly and there will be a little bit more on Friday in the final document. Through our conservations with various Town Officials we recognize Earltown's commitment and the project commitment to upgrade the services as a result of our project in that area. For the South Rueensbury Volunteer Fire Company a couple of different proposals. One would be to assist the South Rueensbury Volunteer Fire f Company through a construction fund. If in the event they do need to renovate their existing facility or expand their facility or build a new building, Earltown would propose to pay a share of that construction at the time that it is needed. First year to two, it may not be needed. We would create the mechanism to provide payment to assist a fair share basis. Earltown would like to commit a sizeable, I don't think Earltown would commit to a hundred percent of a new building or a hundred percent of a new pump or whatever, but would give a fair share to the South Rueensbury Volunteer Fire Company. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Ed, do you know how high the Inn is proposed to be, how many stories? r MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Two stories. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's good. I should indicate because this has been a problem with the West Mountain project for instance and it was discussed with Hiland Park, that in your particular case, there is reasonable capacity at your back door essentially and on level ground to fight fires for quite a few years to come. It would be advantageous to have the building refurbished and have some things changed there for better response. Different from the West Mountain project where we are looking at construction on top of a mountain that's almost inaccessible many times of the year. Where we're saying to them, upfront you've got to build r a station from pretty much day one, because there is not way to fight a fire. You're different. _ Every plan unit development is different. I think this proposal is reasonable. Obviously some kind of language, a little bit more detail has to be worked out. You go on to talk about the rescue squad and your biggest need there probably will be, an ambulance, more than a fire truck because the nearest ambulance is quite a ways away. Its up here at Bay Ridge. This will still be a proposal, its a Bay Ridge District. A proposal to do something for the Bay Ridge I Rescue Squad. But you are going in the right direction, I think. i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. Again with the Bay Ridge because of the location, Earltown. ; is looking at a combination of providing some funds to acquire an ambulance, of funds to assist in a building fund and or a building lot, in a centralized location. We've noted your movement with the West Glens Falls Emergency Squad over, onto a more easier access and We are looking and currently will have more detail in our finaLdocument as to the location for a potential site. A land under Earltown's site control that°we would donate and assist in a building. Again we're not. looking nor I don't think Bay Ridge is looking to have an elaborate building but something that will accommodate the vehicle and have some storage as well as a place a game room in the building that area. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Again Steve and I think the Town Board is negligent if we don't very soon look at the district's boundaries and start looking at response time because I think some of these boundaries have to be moved. S!{PERVISOR BORGOS-We did that as far as the fire companies are concerned. That was c L, last year. The rescue squads have not been done. 6L NCILMAN MONAHAN-1 have seen too many times when they've waited for ambulances where it should not have been the wait that there is. I will say and this is not something you ! could really answer. One of the great needs of all these companies, is bodies. Its just not getting the people to volunteer with the new people moving into Town and that's a big problem. Some kind of a campaign to make people aware of the fact that they do have an obligation to this community and not just to sit back and let George do everything for them. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-George is getting tired. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-George is getting older and this community keeps growing. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-It would be interesting to see the results of the Town of Colonie's publicity promotion. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-They had some problems. It worked initially and then it didn't work so well. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-They spent a lot of dollars for that publicity campaign. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-They enure did. � MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We feel very fortunate that right next door is the South Queensbury lunteer Fire Company. With Bay Ridge I think that there has definitely be a satellite location { iser, down there, now I think that fits into your plans. `r,6UNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea, I think they should be covering a great deal of Quaker Road, that they are not covering to be honest with you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay lets look at, any problem with the next paragraph? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If we're down to Quaker Ridge project will not present any substantial, _ t I think it should not again. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Again, should not, where you've got a will down on the next paragraph. i I think it should be a should not, with proper coordination. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This finding of fact is our opinion, so in our opinion it should not. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That's right. We are not making a definite statement. i COUNSEL DUSEK-Perhaps at this point I should ask the Board too, as review this document where ever the words, will i,ut Have appeared with the connection with an opinion type of j statement, do you want it to be, should not? L COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes. "OUNSEL DUSEK-Just in case we've missed any. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The top of page 30 .. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No I don't think that. I think that should go out. That's not something j i the Town Board would ever say. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The Town Board doesn't wish to be the sales instrument here. Next paragraph? ! COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think that should come out too. x COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I don't know. I think it is a good site for a`PUD. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, I'm just wondering if that's something that should be covered here or if that should be by vote next week. It says furthermore, the site is well suited for the proposed Planned Unit Development. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That's going to be under the PUD, your PUD vote. That's going to be understood if you vote for the PUD. So I personally don't think it belongs here. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How about the rest of you? The only reason why I started to read it was for the benefit of the public. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't think that that is something that we judge. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We'll be judging whether its a good place by the vote. j MR. BARTHOLOMEW-The second part was, I was over-zealous in saying perpetual that it was a successful real estate development. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 didn't get that far. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think to a certain extent the site itself has to be, is part of your f consideration and deliberation,and whether you want a separate vote on that, I think that I is an element because we are applying to the Town of Rueensbury for a PUD on this particular... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But that is what I'm saying, you won't get the vote for the PUD if the site isn't suited for it. ' t MR. BARTHOLOMEW-If you're saying it with a vote, there is no harm in saying it there, if that's what you believe. It could be understood by vote or it could be in and duplicate the thought. i COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I see no reason why it doesn't remain. SUPERVISOR BORGOS=What is the consensus of the group? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What do you think Paul? COUNSEL DUSEK-I have to agree with Dennis on that. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Okay. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay so we're saying its well suited for it and the economics of the inarket.... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, I don't think you want to say that. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We can delete that second part. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You want to delete that? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea, so you just leave in the site is well suited for the proposed PUD. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay. Next paragraph. r COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well I think that is a matter of opinion too. And I'll tell you from i all the studies that I have done, that impact on the Town of Queensbury Annual Property Tax, houses don't pay their way and the industrial part is outside of the PUD and the school I districts certainly is not going to pay their way through the school district. That's not a statement that personally I could subscribe to. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think again that most of the studies that have been generated have dealt on tradition subdivisions and not on Planned Unit Developments. Where this particular Planned Unit Development, your all infrastructure, the cost of the roads, the cost of the water, the cost of the sewer.... (change tape) f COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Are no chemicals. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-It will be submitted to the Town of Rueensbury. We should not be in field... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Betty, would you feel comfortable if we strike, will be submitted to ` the Town. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't even think we should cover it at all, I don't see why it is in there. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think, because an issue has been raised by members of the public. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-For the golf coarse, yes, I'm thinking about the residential property. t i COUNSEL DUSEK-Perhaps this paragraph could be addressed just at the very beginning, indicate j it the developer has proposed a packet of information whereby such and such will be done d that use of fertilizer will be in accordance of law, etc. So in other words its now become L. 'inding that the Board finds that the developer has proposed. i )UNCILMAN MONAHAN-That the developer has said it, now that we're doing anything. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think you've covered it. Thank you. I COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Is that alright? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That's fine. i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'll buy you a cup of coffee for that one tomorrow. Page 31, N becomes i number 14. COUNSEL DUSEK-Just so we're, I hate to go backwards but that part about, will be submitted to submitted to the Town of Rueensbury, will also be dropped too, is that correct? I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes. COUNSEL DUSEK-Okay. I i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, 14. These are all things that came out during our earlier reviews. �?R. MACELROY-Should it be for his review and approval? j � NCILMAN MONAHAN-I agree with Dennis, after Airport Manager, it should be for his eview and approval, not comment. ' COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What we're saying here is that we don't want to see ducks getting sucked up into the jets, plane engines. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That's the problem, starlings, basically if they were attracted to the area. The airport with Mr. LaRouge and Fred Austin have a plan intact right now as a matter of fact, they're going out to bid. I think we saw the advertisement in the paper this week of cuttings of trees and so forth in the area to keep the density out a little bit. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Mr. Laakso had some other unusual ideas too. For instance a specialist that he had talked with that he was telling me about.... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes that entire plan is being worked out with Mr. Victor Solomon who f is a bird strike specialist from Canada that is ahead of the ....unit of the Canadian Government. ! SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It apnears that you are looking at about every possible aspect of this ' project. � `�It. BARTHOLOMEW-Well, we have a good start, through public comments and issues raised �Y the Town Board. 'JP ERVISOR BORGOS-Very well chosen political statement. .R. BARTHOLOMEW-Keep going. 1, SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Well done sir. Page 32. Item o becomes 15 and here is a statement that of what we are just reciting here cause these would be our words, what Earltown proposes f to do. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think according to Earltown's something or whatever, that we j shouldn't really be saying this, we should be putting the owness'on Earltown with that in there. ill I 11 G SUPERVISOR BORGOS Isn t that what this statement is? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Not really, this is our findings? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right, but don't we find that Earltown has agreed to do these things? Am I correct? COUNSEL DUSEK-Maybe you might even want to say that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We'll say it again. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes. I let you reword that, how it should go Paul. : MR.. HALE-I would like to add a little comment here also that the lost of wetland, habitats ` and plants will not be replaced. I think that is... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You just say will be mitigated? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Where are you Mike? MR. HALE-The first sentence. I don't think there is a replacement being proposed. I think that mitigation and other items, there is no replacement. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Its true. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The mitigation is taking the form of replacement. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think that the substitution of some of the land off site, Mike, in terms of the qualities of some of the plant and animal life, is a replacement as well as a mitigation ` measure. We may be in schematics here. li MR. MACELROY-How are you replacing something with the existent? j COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You are mitigating it. I MR. HALE-Five hundred acres are there now, five hundred acres will be lost. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well I think you've got to first of all define the wetlands. The wetland _ is defined in a number of categories. Number one, the wetland is defined by the hydrology, the underground, the ground water control. That will maintain and actually enhance through this project. Secondly the other aspect and definition of the wetlands in benefits is the educational, recreational. Right now, there are no educational, recreational activities out on the site. That certainly will be enhanced. You then get into the issue of plants, animals and land. In one sense I think its too broad, Mike to say that the entire thing is going to be, you know, I totally destroyed. MR. HALE-Well that's not the point. I think the point is not the fact that it will be totally destroyed, I know you've got some mitigation measures here. But its not going to be replaced. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Mike, how about, will be partially replaced? 4 MR. IIALE-I don't think it will be replaced at all. f COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Okay. I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What does the Town Board think? We've heard from our consultant, r now what does the Town Board think? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I agree with Mike. I mean,I hear what Ed is saying but I think they're looking at it from a different way because I think those are mitigation measures and I mitigation measures according to DEC. They are not going out and actually replacing anything. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-They are though. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But that's what mitigation is all about. ` r MR. HALE-I think the only way you are going to replace the wetlands is to create more wetlands. j Not preserving existing ones but to create additional ones. ! COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You've actually done away with five hundred acres of wetlands. i } MR. HALE-To replace a tree; you plant another one. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You just don't want to say there is another tree over there and that replaces it. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well, a certain extent we have through this acquisition of the forty acres of land at Glen Lake. I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But they were already there. MR. BART11OLOM1?W-The thing that's different though, that property right now is under private ownership. That private ownership has a right to undertake permanent activities, Betty. That person out there at Glen Lake that owns that property, could go out and harvest and timber that property right now. Once Earltown turns that property over to a public Iomain that property will be preserved in some sense. I think that I'm not totally disagreeing --Mike with what you are saying but at the same time that that Glen Lake property, once put i in a Public Domain is going to maintain some. `,_�OUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But I still think that is a mitigation measure. That is a mitigation measure. COUNSEL DUSEK-Would there be any problem with just saying that the lost wetland, wild life habitat plant will be mitigated through the following. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That's what I think ought to be done. That's what Mike was suggesting. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'd like to add a couple of other words and not at that point but a little earlier which might change this a little bit because this is really the essence of this whole project. I think maybe we could say that the loss of some characteristics of a wetland, I wildlife habitat and plant values will be mitigated through the following. Cause there we've ' just talked about some of those characteristics that are going to be preserved. The underlying Peat is going to be there, the b,,­ojI that it sits in, is going to be there. The only thing we are talking about changing is that the surface vegetation really... 1 �I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN•-But that surface vegetation is how DEC is classified that, is,a class one wetland, is by the vegetation, if you read the definition of a class one wetland. !� MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Betty it is also defined because of the Peat, it is basically defined j i is a class one because of the number of characteristics. One is because of the Peat, secondly )ecause its an urbanized area, third because of the on surface diversity of plant life and wildlife, `"the size and the potential siting of that territorial Hawk. :i MR. MACELROY-Well there were four items and then the fact that there were four class, r class two, makes it... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Right. Did I site the characteristics like the... 'I MR. MACELROY-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Can you live with the insertion of those other words though? The loss of some characteristics of a wetland and then we delete the word, replaced and say plant life will be mitigated through the following. So we haven't replaced, that should satisfy the consultants. We've addressed more fully I think the point of view of some of the proponents of this that we really don't look at it as total destruction of a wetland but rather of some of the characteristics of that wetland. The most visible of which are those above the ground but below the ground surface we don't think there are many changes. Can we live with that? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-If you just read that sentence that is fine. But if you go further down and site acquisition, alright that's mitigation, right? j COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Absolutely. e "OUNCILMAN POTENZA-Okay. What about the natural preserve on-site? Isn't that a replacement f taking something from the north, or say the south end of the land? I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, because that is already there, that hasn't changed. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What about the additional sixty-three acres? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We don't have that. That is still a wetland, you aren't, it is already ( j there. it i MR. MACELROY-You're not creating new, you're ending. .A replacement would be, I would reason, something with a creation. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What about the creation of the Environmental Conservation? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That is another mitigation. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We don't have a problem with those words. Again it depends on how at of a different perspective of the word. we define it and obviously we have somewh SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Can we use the word substitute instead of replace? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, no. { COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I like the loss of some characteristics of the wetland, wildlife habitat and plant values will be mitigated through the following. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We are defending our position. should not hide the fact that there is a hawk. i MR. MACELROY-...your position and you sho ` - have said themselves, they have said in there own statement 1 COUNCILMAN MONAHAN They 4 that some of these things are irreplaceable and there completely damaged. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Nobody is questioning loss. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What I'm questioning is that to make sure that that sentence lines 't o down to the end of the page and have to rephrase everything. b c d so that we don g up with a, , , , � SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right all those numbers should be changed to letters. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Hydrological functions of the wetland will continue to exist and serve as a filtering system. I think, Mike and Dennis if the Peat is not disturbed, that function should happen. MR. HALE-Right, to the extent that water is existing on the site. MR. MACELROY-Maybe we've covered this in other sections but this I think in particular where that breakdown of the off-site areas because we're referring to that loss of wetland that site acquisition in Glen Lake wetland and Haviland and Ridge site, Halfway Brook bottom land. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That goes right with it. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-There should be a comma after the site. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-There is Glen Lake wetland, that's number one and number two, correct me if I'm wrong, Haviland and Ridge site which is the Halfway Brook Bottom land Ecosystem... MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHA`t And all together the two sites are the seventy acres, equal MR. MACELROY-Seventy acres and how much of it is wetland? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I haven't forgotten you. I've got that done. We will have the breakdown, a little bit clearer, how many acres are at Glen Lake and within the acres of Glen Lake, how many are wetlands and the same with Haviland and Ridge. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Probably most of, in both those cases. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Not quite the entire. More the Glen Lake site is the Halfway Brook site. MR. MACELROY-You don't want to mislead them. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-No. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We're not doing our job if we do that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No I'm just thinking having driven by these places it looks like its pretty`wet. - COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Halfway Brook varies from time to time, that site in there. Sometimes ! its wet, sometimes it isn't, depends upon the kind of year you have. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, anything else on this particular page? Now we go to page 33. i MR. MACELROY-1 guess I have. When I read item 6 or whatever the letter is... SU1'1;RVISOR BORGOS-It wotalci he F. MR. MACELROY-The wooded wet fringes and roughs of the golf course will be maintained in as natural state as possible to encourage wildlife and a natural setting. I don't know what biiity there would be here. Inevitably in golf course it starts as rough in your woods and t hat not, get thin and clear because golfers somehow hit golf balls into the rough, in my j '--experience of being on golf courses you see that there be a period of time that that happens. I don't know if that is the intent. The intent here is to preserve those areas. Then how is Fiat being maintained? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-As a golfer that spends most of the time in the rough,Dennis, the way this is envisioned is that you will have your traditional fairway, then as you get off that fairway, there will be less of an area for you to go after your golf ball then in most golf courses around here. Its found in the South and out in the West where they have built some on Peat, you instantly get more into a rough area that your not going to go in and go after that golf ball. MR. MACELROY-Right. I guess the point is how is that maintained and how is that preserved ! that that doesn't through time and the pressures of the golf course management would face from its membership, clear out that rough and get that easier to go into. I mean that kind of thing happens. In this particular case, I think it is pertinent that it is thought about because I its a mitigation that your talking about. Well we're going to disturb certain areas where the fairways are but these areas between the fairways we want to maintain as natural as ossible because they will support some wildlife and natural settings. P f COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Do you think that wording should be changed, Dennis? Again, thinking of this coming from the Town Board, should it be, is to be maintained and as possible 1 again is one of those words that gives somebody an awful lot of leeway. What's possible for j ou to do is not possible for me to do. C R. MACELROY-The language is one thing, the follow through is another, I think that's what `gym really talking about. You can have all the language in the, the blocking in as possible but how do you follow through on that type of thing. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think that in our golf design genus we can add some language here and specify those areas. Again I think that perhaps there was a misunderstanding that was picked up by the paper last time when we talked about the Natural Preserve and Pumping. When I made the statement that the preserve that we are preserving out there is a very young forest with Cedars and Maples. It is not mature so that through the natural process that is going to change. The same thing in this particular state here, that we will maintain it in its natural state. But that doesn't mean when the trees get to be twenty years old, we're going to chop them down and we're going let those trees in that natural state maintain itself. ' COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Maybe we shouldn't say natural state. Maybe we should say j forever wild. That just means you leave it alone. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think you can't, you got to be able to, we can say, wildlife, to encourage wildlife natural setting, you can't really say forever wild, without defining what you mean by it. It. MACELROY-Some management of that could be good. � f � I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's right. We agreed on that. jOUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just trying to think of the wording mat accomplishes what we are saying without being, I mean I think this wording is not anything j that anybody could ever enforce. The minute you put, as possible, its again one of those words that lawyers just love, depending upon which side there on. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I guess what it is, is an intent,•an objective, and that we certainly could put language in there to delineate those areas, that what are intent is, Betty. As an example as part of our planning here, is that in these areas that provide the edge is a great area and great resource for encouraging habitat, bird life. So by working with our wildlife ! i biologist and hopefully with local groups who we've extended the invitation to, that through some management of these rough areas we're going to be encouraging certain type of small birds, to maintain and actually improve in those particular areas. That's why I would like to stay away from the word forever wild. The way we can do that is to delineate on our golf design maps, those areas, under this natural state. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Ed, I want to back up to something and I'm not cognate of the latest regulations and that is pesticides. Are any of the pesticides that you will be allowed to use on that golf course, dangerous to birds? If not, I think we should be clause in, if they are I mean, I think there should be a clause in it, no pesticides will be use that are dangerous. i MR. MACELROY-What would designate that? Should it go hand in hand with those that are allowed? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't know, that's what I'm saying. I don't know. If we're going to encourage birds on one hand and going to kill them with pesticides on the other hand. ` There--are cautions, on your, you know any pesticide that you will buy will tell you don't use this around birds, honeybees or whatever. Here is something that is telling us is going to happen on one hand but I don't know if it is going to follow with the use of the pesticides. COUNSEL DUSEK-If I could make perhaps a suggestion in this regard. Earlier the Town Board, I guess, Councilman Monahan's suggestion, basically adopted a position that perhaps the Town should not get involved in this area, and I think if you start now to try to get involved in what pesticides are dangerous to birds or not dangerous to birds, you're kind of putting yourself right in the middle of this whole area that you didn't want to be involved in. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, I'm not saying what we would say, I'm saying that the manufacturers on the directions will say, do not use these. COUNSEL DUSEK-Sometime; ago, I had reason to become involved in chemicals and what not that are used in golf courses and lawns and things. One of the things I found out, there was a certain chemical I was dealing with that they were telling me that the Federal Government was actually investigating because it was killing birds and they were thinking about romoving it from the market. I guess at one point they had removed it from the market and they put it back on again. you're talking about a government agency that Is very sophisticated in this process trying to make a determination as to whether or not its bad or good for the birds. j So I think to try to put the Town Board in the middle of this controversy or to try and sort out what the manufacturers claims are, you'd find it a very, very difficult and involved process. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Okay, I'll defer to the attorney. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Betty, we certainly are making effort and there are many golf courses in the Country that there is feasible coexistence with golf courses and plant life and fish in ponds and so forth, and that is our intent to work with them. Within the framework with what. Paul was saying, there are chemicals in uses within that are much better and more natural and that is what are intent and goal is to do that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any more comments on page 33? Go over to 34 where we've renumbered, 11 becomes L, 12 is M. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait a minute, I didn't get through 33 yet. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm sorry. j MR. HALE-I've got another, I guess it would be G, number 7. I think its going to be, at least in the ponds I've seen at most golf courses, pretty much impossible to benefit fish and wildlife. I think the primary thing you benefit in golf course ponds are weeds to the extent that that their ultrafied and plugged and very few fish can survive, if they are put in there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I've seen an awful lot of deer drinking from golf course ponds. MR. HALE-They probably have indigestion. The,fact is fish, I would doubt that fish would survive in too many golf course ponds. That was my primary concern. Wildlife, maybe they do drink from ponds occasionally but... t COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Well what's wrong with designing something that maybe benefit fish though and that's what the statement says? MR. HALE-Okay well I guess I disagree with the fact-that you can design a pond, unless you are not going to be draining into the ponds from any of the chemicall�v applied areas. I don't think you can. i C SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The only thing you could say here, other than say what is being said, is they say that ponds on site will be designed to provide destruction of fish and wildlife. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Maybe it should just go out of here period. MR. HALE-I would suggest the removal of that statement altogether. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I think what are intent is maybe if we can clarify this with two issues is that, first of all we will define and create, we're going to create two types of ponds, and will put this in the statement on Friday. One the pond we will attempt to design maximum benefit for the wildlife including birds that will use those ponds. Would you agree that birds do use golf course ponds? JR. HALE-What type of birds, waterfowl? I would say they may stop over there, I don't t pink they would use them as part of their life cycle. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Our intent is to you that. Secondly we will be designing within the reserve and else where and will so state, we will create some artificial natural ponds that �- 'ill not be connected to the golf course system that will be used to attract. i MR. HALE-I think there is a great deal to be gained by ponds that are drawing in wildlife in them in a management type situation. But if its directly with the pond, particular with fertilizers applying to golf courses, inevitably end up with an atrophic situation and weeds predominate. i COUNCILMAN PONTENZA-This doesn't say natural ponds though so this statement would I cover both. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We will clarify that statement. 1 MR. HALE-The reason I brought that up is because most of the ponds are built in this area. I'm sure there might be some on the fringe that may not be effected... ' SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The reason I made my statement, I constructed some farm ponds and have read extensively in that area and that is precisely why they are created, to help. r wildlife and fish population. { i C OUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But most of those ponds, now a days, Steve, to be done correctly i± I i ire also protected from the fertilizer going into the... that is one of the problems. HALE-To some extent fertilizers can be beneficial. 1i SUPERVISOR BORG OS-Fertilizer can be restricted within a certain range too and they can be filtered through a soil process. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN--This is one of the great problems with Lake George. That's one of the things that has happened with Lake George. There ought to be no fertilizers on any lawns adjacent to Lake George. li MR. BARTHOLOMEW-We will clarify Mike and distinguish the two types of ponds we're going to create. j E MR. HALE-Clarification will be definitely sufficient. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Anything else on page 33? I said earlier today and I'll say it again. If anybody ever accuses this Board of being a rubber stamp or anything, this process and this Town will get upset. I think we are doing a thorough review here. Every word, we don't always agree with every word. Page 34? ,I R. HALE-I did have one comment concerning the Lady Slipper. Typically transplanting � 'of the Lady Slippers and her orchards is not possible. I suggest that that is taken out of there. h - COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Where are you Mike? n n. _MR. BARTHOLOMEW-It is possible. MR. HALE-It's not successful in most cases. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-I'd to have to take a disagreement on that. According to Nancy Slack, p she feels that we can undertake that Mike. The success of certain types is higher than others. If we want to clarify that a little bit we will do that but that is our effort and intent. Through Nancy Slack, she was the one that suggested that we put that in there. r COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I have seen that done to the pink ones. Its difficult. Can we back up a-minute, I'm still on 33? Development of cross-country skiing, is that going to be strictly for the people in your PUD or is there going to be trails open to the public or what? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-That will be open to the Public. It will be on the golf course and open to the public. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Okay, can we put a little note in there that that is open to the public then please? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay that ends page 34 and we go onto a short page 35 before we go back to... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait a minute, I'm on page 34 yet. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm sorry, I thought we just did. Lady Slipper is at the bottom of j page 34. ..1 COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Are you going to put an attachment, Ed at the top of page 34, are you going to put an attachment locating that Mar Fen? MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes we are. On the top of page 34, yes, a map specifying the location. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Okay. BARTHOLOMEW-Mike do you want us o clarify that in some language with Nancy Slack, M R. BAR t � in terms of recognizing the difficulty. MR. HALE-Sure. I don't think its, okay maybe its possible, but I don't think its going to be a successful general plan. I don't think you can create a situation that replaces an existence... MR. M JAATVEDT think the idea and the intent Mike was that if it falls within a fairway its going; to be totally destroyed, an attempt,will be made to transplant where we can. Where we haven't had an hundred percent success rate but we will make the effort. i MR. BARTHOLOMEW-1 think where the Lady Slipper is primary found around this area is marl fen location area. In the effort that Nancy Slack thinks can be successful is to rebuild conditions that are conclusive to allow plants as well as to try some of the transplants. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Mike, lets face it, once the public knows where they are, they'll { probably disappear anyway. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments page 34? Page 35? Now we have to go back to another page. Page 35 only had a couple of lines on it, so we got through that quickly. Lets go back to the page that takes about four and fives, page 13. COUNSEL DUSEK-Perhaps before the Board addresses four and five, If I may just... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Restate your position. COUNSEL DUSEK-1 guess more of a question then a position. There is a letter attached j to this document which actually deals with the sewerage plant for the development. Its after f page 35. It says that the City of Glens Falls will accept the capacity of four hundred thousand # gallons per day. Of course this is in anticipation of the Ciba-Geigy buy out negotiation. There seems to be a contingency with regard to the availability of sewerage. Just to bring it to the Board's attention. { COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But on the other hand its going to be a condition of the PUD, j resolution that the whole thing has to be under sewers. COUNSEL DUSEK-Somewh-re I guess we should address that SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I have nothing in writing yet but for whatever comfort it is, the negotiations are underway and have been underway for a long period of time, with the City and Ciba-Geigy, to arrange not specifically for this project but fora substantial capacity and I have every reason to believe that will take place very quickly. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Of course with the understanding was with Hiland and those negotiations were going on was if the sewer capacity wasn't there the development couldn't happen. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right and I think that would have to be part of this. T' i I COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I wonder about this accept the capacity of four hundred thousand f gallons of sewage per day. When the water use was done at five hundred and fifty thousand, I don't know if that is because some of that was expected to go on the olf course or why ( there is a difference. g ! j COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Two hundred thousand is going to the other, Queensbury Central. This is sort of an aggressive four hundred thousand, they don't really need that much. MR. MACELROY-I don't know, I think they probably wanted to say four hundred fifty thousand and then there is the difference between water in and water out. i jj I )UNCILMAN MONAHAN-I know we usual charge it by water in, that's why I'm saying. R PERVISOR BORGOS-The difference is whats left over in the Central Rueensbury. The two capacities added together will come out to the correct amount. ( 'COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Oh okay. I SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay we're back on page 13, number 4. The meat of the whole thing, number 4 and number 5. I COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Ed to put some minds at rest. How much capacity does the Town. and City use of the sewage treatment plant now? When you built it. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-The capacity of the plant is about eight and half million gallons. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Three million is designated for Ciba-Geigy? f MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Three and a half was for Ciba-Geigy. They actually, fifty-two percent j of the capital cost of the plant, and the City paid forty-eight percent. ECOUNCILMAN MONTESI-Four and a half million a day was left for the City. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Yes. What has happened of course is that in an plant you have a little YP Y , bit reserved capacity. But more importantly the City in the last several years, actually the A couple of years, has been aggressively separating storm sewer and sanitary sewer. So j at's a way to build in an additional capacity is the more storm sewer pipes and new plants that you get to separate ghat storm sewer from ending up going into your sewage treatment plant. You have more and more capacity and your not also treating just water to do that. So the City has just completed that certification on the SSES program, the Sewer System Evaluation Study and separation. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-They're using about two, two and a half million gallons. They've given us four hundred plus Gary Bowen's four hundred so that's let say three million. Yours would be a half a million and they've also have made some kind of commitment to South Glens Falls. So we are very, very close to, even if Ciba didn't turn theirs over, with your four hundred thousand, we could do it. There is a condition in here, I realize, but I just wanted the Board to know the numbers. That its not like, if Ciba doesn't give up and those negotiations fall down, there's still the capacity. MR. BARTHOLOMEW-Well there are other options if the negotiations fall down. Under Ciba- Geigy's contract they have an alternative and the ability to negotiate with other parties, sell their capacities to other parties. But are option obviously, is it should go to the City of Glens Falls, and then secondly it should go to Oueensbury. But if that point breaks down, Ciba would have the right of the contract to sell to a.... : COUNCILMAN MONTESI-And there is another option too, and that is the option to expand sewer treatment plant like we are expanding our water plant. That is an option too. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is being study and that is viable. There is room there and the { gineering technology is available. --mR. BARTHOLOMEW-I'm sure its designed to accommodate the whole county and to your water filtration. (`( i ' SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay I'd like to go back to item number 4. Anybody have any problems with the way it is stated? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-4 meaning old D, right? i i ' I b , SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Old D, page 13. It should be number 4. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think you are in the wrong area. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I might be. As I start to read it doesn't sound as strong as it did. Your right, its page 9, number 4 and 5, I apologize. Lets do 4 first. The attorney had talked about this language before. Maybe we should say something again. You spoke to it earlier. This is really in our opinion we are saying, is that correct? The opinion of the Town Board. COUNSEL DUSEK-Yes the language that's here, in parts four and five, is actually language. that comes out of the rules and regulations that are promulgated pursuant to the Environmental Law. It is a very standardized type of language and its basically findings that this Board has to make in order to approve of the project. If you don't, I believe anyway, if you don't find these items, I don't think you could really approve the project environmentally. Because this is a very key part of what the law sets forth that says that the local agency has to find. ' Every term here has a very significant meaning and its basically, I guess here if you will, your kind of summarizing the entire project. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Lets take 4 first. You don't want us to vote on this at this point, you just want us to go like we've done with the rest, right? An equal census situation. COUNSEL DUSEK-Yes. Your follow vote will come on Monday. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Anyone have any objections as to the way 4 is written? I guess we have no choice but to except it pretty much or reject it in its entirety. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Well I think we've gone page by page, line by line on this findings of fact and if we with the corrections we've made... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well there are two things here. One we are talking about the rezoning, I the proposed rezoning. Now if you take that from what we presently have and lets forget j the wetlands for a minute. Lets take what we presently have. We have an Industrial reserved f chunk of land and if you say, taking it out of industrial reserve, and putting into single family housing, golf courses and some commercial, you could look at this statement and say your certainly doing something better than putting industry in, on the wetlands. Just that part. I'm not saying you agree with 5, but you have to look at number 4 and think about rezoning from what it presently is to what this proposal is. Whether any of the alternatives that Earltown has presented have all hinged around single family housing, recreational and some commercial. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I agree and basically its the concept. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I don't have a problem with 4... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-And who receives a PUD. You know, do we support the planned unit development and if we do then we have to agree with 4. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Its a matter of fact, the rezoning there might be less of an effect f on the environment than the way it is presently zoned. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-On the other hand Ron, I'll just play devil's advocate here, if the PUD were turned down it would have to go under the new zoning which is one per every ten acres for a lot and it kind of shoots your argument. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-At this point, yea, but when we started this process we didn't know that. i COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I know but you have to think of all the possibilities that are out there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Even under, and as a chairman I don't like to say an awful lot, but even under the rezoning we could still end up with essentially a haphazard relatively uncontrolled development there. As a planned unit development we have a great deal more control, very specific control of the entire project. I think we're much further ahead. Its such a large area. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I'd like to have had the control here in the Pines. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Or on Route 9. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I mean for drainage and all of that kind of stuff. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-If there are no objections to 4, lets go to 5 and see what we can look i s at at 5. For those people in the audience, these two paragraphs are relatively simple and they're certainly available for anybody to look at after the meeting. Again It ely short and relatively like to indicate that this has been a long, drawn out process. We still have one more to go through on Monday but certainly voting in favor of these two paragraphs is process I know I personally have spent a great deal of time on this and I'm sure other members of critical. the Board have. Looking at every conceivable aspect of this. Meeting with Earltown in their offices, out on the site,alone and with them. Hours and hours of reading through the documents and visiting everybody imaginable and talking with the letters. Its not an easy decision but its my pinion that pI can livelwith 4 letters and 5. 1 reading look the alternatives out there. I l CJ p sa ook at trying to preserve as much of this Town as os i ble. at o back to something Mrs. Monahan has said, many meetings, that concept of community m here has been lost over the years. I think mostly because of the piece meal development of the Town. Oneida Corners and that section p eat was area.rea. N w Nance o its ' to create an area, eight hundred, nine hundred acre area that can lessentially be t community, a planned community and I like that concept. I would hate to see eight or ten r fifteen separate little projects out there. Looking at the little if any change that's oin g o be made in the below ground level conditions out there, I think that is beneficial. So I certainly would strongly n ni; y support 4 and 5. I don't want to go into a big speech. Anybody have y problems with 5. If not why don't we close it up for today. As far as this is concerned, -those are the last two items to be done. We still have a vote to come on Monday. we'll receive and review the revisions that we've talked about for the last couple of days iday. Monday we'll have all day and we'll ask the attorneys to meet and get the language ironed out. We'll have a last chance to talk about and look at a couple of items on Monday and then one way or another this project should either be on its way or not on its way. y MR. MACELROY-There is an eleven page PUD resolution that reflects... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We talked about that. That is supposed to be Monday and that is i going to be updated to agree with all the items that were changed in here and that will be the subject of Monday's meeting. f MR. MACELROY-We will receive that also...? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I believe so. That was indicated before along with the written agreement j 1 from the Earltown Corporation, agreeing to live by all these things. COUNSEL DUSEK-Ed, I take it the Board members will be getting copies even though I haven't reviewed it. First thing Friday morning, they should receive copies as well, and we can take from there. � 4 _it. BARTHOLOMEW-Our package to the Town Supervisor's Office for distribution will be... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-And if he is dead, go to the Town Clerk. I MR. M JAATVEDT-it your preference that we go to the individuals? ! r SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'd prefer that if you don't mind. I think it would be faster. MR. M JAATVEDT-Does anybody object to that? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No. i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I might get on a phone call and just not see it. Okay, I want to thank everyone for coming. At this point before we adjourn, I'd like a member of the Board to give us a motion to go into Executive Session for just a few minutes to talk about personnel items related to salaries and a couple of job descriptions for very specific people. It will be short. RESOLUTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION i ' I RESOLUTION NO. 440, Introduced by Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded itonald Montesi. - RESOLVED, that the Queensbtiry Town Board hereby move into executive session to discuss L"' oYadopted nnel items related to salaries and job descriptions. by the following vote: _ !I Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos j I I Noes: None i Absent: Mr. Kurosaka i 1 I • I I ; No action was taken. On motion the meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK r r f f i I f 1 j i r i i { i i I j J l i