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1986-11-24 SP ~3 L QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Special Meeting held: Monday, November 24, 1986 @ 7:30 P.M. Present: Theodore Turner, Chairman Gustave Behr Charles O. Sicard Jeffrey L. Kelley Daniel S. Griffin Stuart F. Mesinger, Senior Town Planner R. Case Prime, Attorney Robert Eddy, Sign Enforcement Officer Absent: Susan Goetz Michael Muller Chairman Turner called the meeting to order at 7:40 p.m. Mr. Turner said that Sign Variance No. 1175, Aviation Road Development, Red Coach Restaurant had been tabled. OLD BUSINESS SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1128 Samoset Motel and Cabins Mr. Turner said that this application was previously tabled for more information on setbacks. The public hearing wa~ closed. Jim and Rosemary Walker said there are 3 signs (2 are allowed): Sign 1 faces Route 9 at the north end of their property and is 18 inches onto state land. Sign 2 is on the south end of the property facing Route 9 and is 17 ft. 2 in. from the line. Sign 3 is on the Northway 5 feet from the property line-. All signs conform as to size. Mr. Turner and Mr. Behr noted that the Northway sign isn't very visible. The Walkers disagreed, saying that many customers choose their motel because of this sign. Board members e;xplained that they have been making all businesses on Route 9 conform to the number and size requirements, while granting setback variances on Route 9 because of the state taking land. The Walkers were asked which sign they would prefer to lose. Mr. Walker said he would prefer to keep the Northway sign and give up the sign on the south property line. Mr. Behr MOVED APPROVAL of Variance No. 1128. Practical difficulty for the main sign on the north of the property is due to the widening of Route 9 creating the problem. Only 2 signs aré permitted; the sign on the south of the property is to be removed. The sign on the Northway is approved but must meet the 15 foot setback requirement and conform as to size and height. ~ 1 ;;¿~~ L Seconded by Mr. Turner. Passed U"1II"imously. NEW BUSINESS SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1173 Small World Shoppes Mr. Griffin read the application from Small World Shoppes on Route 9 to keep an existing free standing sign 13 ft. from the property line. Two wall signs also exist. Don White, owner, said that one of the wall signs will be changed to a 4 square foot directional sign so as to conform. The only remaining issue is the free standing sign. Mr. White said that the sign has been considerably reduced. There is a main sign which is 48 square feet and two reader panels totaling 12 square feet. Mr. White submitted sketches showing the 12 foot setback and photos of the sign. He said that he operated a restaurant, cheese and gourmet store and gift shop; it was difficult to advertise all of these on one sign. The sign could conform to size requirements if moved to a 25 foot setback, but then it would be 3 feet into his driveway. Mr. Behr said that the reader panels could be made part of the wall sign. Mr. White said that they were more effective perpendicular to the road. He cited sales figures showing an increase in business with the reader panels. Public Hearing Opened: no comment Public Hearing Closed The Wa.n'en County Planning Board approved the 3 foot setback variance but denied the size variance. The Board discussed how signs are measured. It was agreed that by moving the reader panels together, the sign would measure 62 square feet. Mr. White said he would prefer to keep the sign at its present size and move it back to 22 feet from the line (signs are allowed 64 square feet at a 25 foot setback) rather than conform to a 50 foot size at the existing setback. Board members agreed to this; moving the sign further back than 22 feet would place it in the driveway. Mr. Griffin MOVED APPROVAL of Variance No. 1173 for a 3 foot setback; the sign is to be 22 feet from the Right of Way. The sign will remain at 62 square feet. Practical difficulty is that a driveway prevents the sign from being moved further back. The gift sign will be changed to a "Gift Entrance" sign which is a directional sign and be a maximum of 4 square feet. Mr. Kelley seconded. "--' Passed Unan;mously. 2 07~5 L SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1176 Meads Nursery Mr. Griffin read the application from Meads Nursery to keep a sign which confòrms as to size at a 10 foot setback at the property situated on Ridge Road. Dick Mead said he had a second sign which conforms. Moving the sign would cause him to lose a cedar tree. the property would look worse without the tree. Mr. Behr said there was plenty of space to move the sign back and that if moved it would still be visible. Loss of the tree was not a practical difficulty. Board members discussed whether the setback had been measured from the pole or the leading edge of the sign. Mr. Mead was unsure where the measurement had been taken from. The existing setback would be 5 feet if measured from the leading edge; 10 feet if from the pole. Public Hearing Opened: no comment Public Hearing Closed The Warren County Planning Board approved without comment. Mr. Behr MOVED DENIAL of Variance No. 1176. No practical difficulty has been shown. . Mr. Kelley seconded. Passed Un=-nhnously SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1177 ABC Rentals Mr. Griffin read the application from ABC Rentals to keep a freestanding sign which conforms as to size 4 feet from the property line at the corner of Ridge and Quaker Roads. Keith Coe explained that he also has 2 wall signs, which are allowed as he is on a corner lot. The freestanding sign is 32 square feet in size and 4 feet from the property line on Ridge Road. The sign is also exactly on the property line on the Quaker Road side. Board members explained that they had granted other setback variances on Quaker Road with the provision that the signs be removed 'when the road is widened. However, there is no practical difficulty for the Ridge Road side. The Board discussed with Mr. Coe alternate sign locations. Several were rejected for lack of visibility. The Board and Mr. Coe agreed on several alternate locations, however no information was available to determine what the setbacks would be from the new "-..i locations. Mr. Coe asked the Board to table the application so he could make further measurements. 3 d-~0 L Mr. Sicard MOVED that the application be tabled for further measurements. Mr. Turner seconded. Passed UDaDimously SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1178 Mohican Motel Mr. Griffin read the application from the Mohican Motel to keep' 4 signs on property located on Route 9. The 4 signs are as follows: Sign 1 87 square feet, 7 feet from Route 9 line. "Indian logo" Sign 2 freestanding sign 15 feet from Route 9 line, 48 square feet "Mohican Motel" Sign 3 freestanding sign on Northway, 15 feet from line, approximately 160 square feet, "Mohican Motel" Sign 4 wall sign on indoor pool "Indoor pool and jacuzzi" George Stark said that in addition there were 6 other signs which he would remove. Mr. Stark asked the Board whether the sign on the Northway could be considered a billboard and therefore grandfathered. After some discussion the Board agreed to table this sign pending research by Counsel and submittal of evidence from Mr. Stark. if the sign is a billboard it may stay; otherwise it must be removed. Mr. Stark said that he would agree to make both of his freestanding signs (numbers 1 and 2) conform to size and would also remove his wall sign (number 4). He could not move the freestanding signs further back due to the location of the drywell and septic system. Public Hearing Opened: no comment Public Hearing Closed Mr. Griffin read a letter from George Pense I supporting the application so long as visibility was not interfered with. The Warren County Planning Board disapproved without comment. Mr. Behr MOVED that Variance No. 1178 be approved for setbacks for freestanding signs 1 and 2. The practical difficulty is the close proximity to the Route 9 Right of Way which was caused by the widening of Route 9. Size and height requirements for these signs must be met. Sign No.4 will be removed as will all other nonconforming signs. The Northway sign number 3 is tabled for determination of whether it is a billboard. Mr. Sicard seconded ~ Passed UDaDimoualy. 4 J.J.-7 '--' SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1183 Mohan's Glen Dew Mr. Griffin read the application from Mohan's Glen Dew to keep a freestanding sign which conforms as to size at a 4 foot setback on the property situated at Glen Road. Raymond Rohne, owner, said that the sign would look tetTible if moved and that it would extend into the building if placed at a 15 foot setback. Mr. Behr said that the Board could get the sign further from the road by granting a smaller variance that that requested. Mr. Behr also questioned whether the two wall signs on the property were conforming as each sign advertised two businesses. This would seem to give Mohan's 3 signs, one more than allowed. Mr. Eddy said that there were two businesses in the building, each with a separate license and each entitled to a wall sign. The signs had permits and were, in his opinion, legal. Mr. Prime said that there was some presumption that the signs were legal as they had a valid permit; the issue before the Board was the freestanding sign. Public HearinR Opened: Carolyn Rohne, part owner, said she was in favor of the application. Public HearinR Closed. The WatTen County Planning Board disapproved without comment. The Board and Mr. Rohne discussed other possible sign locations which would meet the setback requirement while still being visible. Mr. Rohne asked that the application be tabled so that he could make further measurements on his property. Mr. Sicard MOVED that the application be tabled at the applicants request. Mr. Turner seconded. Passed Un='llnhnously. THE MEE'l1NG WAS ADJOURNED AT 10:15 P.M. 9k~~ G Theodore ~, Chairman Minutes prepared by Stuart F. Mesinger, Senior Town Planner 5