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1997-07-23 "' J FILE QUEENS BURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SECOND REGULAR MEETING JULY 23, 1997 INDEX Area Variance No. 30-1997 Tax Map No. 8-9-4 Betsy Malman 1. Cont'd Pg. 13. Area Variance No. 34-1997 Tax Map No. 131-8-25 Karen A. Shevlin 1. Use Variance No. 35-1997 Tax Map No. 136-2-5 Dennis Mabb 4 . Sign Variance No. 36-1997 Sportline Honda 13. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. ~ -..-/ . '. .+ "(Queenêbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) QUEENS BURY ZONING BOARD SECOND REGULAR MEETING JULY 23, 1997 7:00 P.M. OF APPEALS MEMBERS PRESENT CHRIS THOMAS, CHAIRMAN BONNIE LAPHAM, SECRETARY LEWIS STONE PAUL HAYES ROBERT MCNALLY BRIAN CUSTER ROBERT KARPELES PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI OLD BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 30-1997 TYPE II WR-1A BETSY MALMAN OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 27 SUNSET LANE, OFF OF ASSEMBLY POINT ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT A GARAGE WHICH WILL NOT MEET THE REQUIRED SIDE YARD AND REAR YARD SETBACKS. RELIEF IS BEING REQUESTED FROM THE SETBACKS LISTED IN SECTION 179-16, WATERFRONT RESIDENTIAL ZONE. TAX MAP NO. 8-9-4 LOT SIZE: 0.18 ACRES SECTION 179-16 MR. THOMAS-I do believe the pUblic hearing is still open. MR. HILTON-It's still open, yes, and the applicant has submitted additional information. They're aware that they're supposed to be on tonight. So you may want to put this aside for now and maybe bring it up later in the meeting. MR. THOMAS-Okay. So we will put Betsy Malman aside for a minute or so, and go on to the next one. NEW BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 34-1997 TYPE II SR-1A KAREN A. SHEVLIN OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 220 FIFTH STREET EXTENSION, NORTH SIDE OF STREET BETWEEN CAROLINE AND RICHARDSON STREETS APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION TO AN EXISTING HOME. THE NEW ADDITION WILL NOT MEET THE SIDE YARD SETBACKS FOR THE SR-1A ZONE. RELIEF IS BEING REQUESTED FROM THE SIDE YARD SETBACKS LISTED IN SECTION 179- 19, SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL ONE ACRE ZONE. TAX MAP NO. 131-8-25 LOT SIZE: 0.26 ACRES SECTION 179-79 KAREN SHEVLIN, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 34-1997, Karen A. Shevlin, Meeting Date: July 23, 1997 "PROJECT LOCATION: 220 Fifth Street Extension Proposed Project and Conformance with the Ordinance: The applicant proposes to construct an addition to an existing home. The new addition will not meet the front yard setback requirements for the SR-1A zone. The current front yard setback is 30 feet. Criteria for considering an Area Variance, according to Chapter 267, Town Law. 1. Benefit to the applicant: Relief would allow the applicant to add living space to an existing home. 1. Benefit to the applicant: Relief would allow the applicant to add living space to an existing home. 2. Feasible alternatives: Alternatives are limited due to the location of the garage and screened porch on this property. 3. Is this relief substantial relative to the ordinance? The applicant is seeking 7.47 feet of - 1 - · -' (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) front yard setback relief. It would not appear to be substantial given existing conditions in the surrounding neighborhood. 4. Effects on the neighborhood or community? Staff anticipates no negative impacts if the requested relief were granted. 5. Is this difficul ty self created? A difficulty exists because current zoning regulations were not in place at the time the home was built. Staff Comments & Concerns: Staff believes that the proposed addition would not be out of character from other homes in the neighborhood and would not have a negative effect on surrounding properties. SEQR: Type II, no further action required. " MR. THOMAS-All right. microphone. Having said that, speak right into the MS. SHEVLIN-Karen Shevlin. All the stuff that you said is right. All the things you said are the reasons I want to do it. MR. THOMAS-Well, those are the things you wrote in your application. Do you have anything else you want to add to the application or say? MS. SHEVLIN-I have the neighbor's signatures, if you need those, in favor of me. MR. THOMAS-Well, I'll read those when correspondence comes around. Does anyone have any questions for the applicant? MR. STONE-I have only one question, which I'll ask later. I can ask it now. Can we save the tree? That's the only thing. MS. SHEVLIN-I don't think we can, because it goes over the top of the, if I go close, if the corner of the house goes close, the tree hangs over. MR. STONE-That was all. MR. THOMAS-Is there any reason that addition can't be slid back? MS. SHEVLIN-Yes, because it's only 24 by 28, my house, 24 wide, and in order to add the addition, there's no room. I could show you the picture better. To put the hallway with all the doors that go off it to the bedrooms, and the basement and the bathroom, it would have to be set in the back of the house. So there'd be an awkward cutting up of the house in order to do that. MR. THOMAS-Okay. So you'd have to change the interior of the existing house in order to get everything to line up. MS. SHEVLIN-Major. MR. THOMAS-Reconstruction, realignment. MRS. LAPHAM-So the proposed addition in the front are the two bedrooms and the bath? MS. SHEVLIN-It's a bedroom in the front, a bathroom in the middle, and a bedroom in the back. Well, it's to the west of the house. The whole thing goes at one end of the house. MRS. LAPHAM-Okay. I think I see. MS. SHEVLIN-It makes it like an "L" almost, but the front part of the "L" only sticks out four feet. MR. THOMAS-Any other questions for the applicant? If not, I'll open the public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak in favor of this application? In favor of? Anyone wishing to speak opposed? - 2 - ~ (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) Opposed? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED MR. THOMAS-Correspondence? MRS. LAPHAM-July 22, 1997 "We the undersigned are in favor of the Area Variance No. 30-1997, which Karen Shevlin has submitted. Shirley Barcomb of 212 5th Street; Albert Burrows, 214 Fifth; Lois Chase, 225 Fifth; Donald Chase, 225 Fifth; Jackie Timms, 224 Fifth; and Rose Burch at 215 Fifth Street." MR. STONE-What was the variance that you read there? MRS. LAPHAM-Right here, they have No. 30-1997, and what they mean is 34. MR. THOMAS-Yes. All right. MRS. LAPHAM-Should we have here change that and initial it, or just leave it, because it says 30. MR. THOMAS-Yes. No, just leave it like it is. It has her name on it. MRS. LAPHAM-Yes, it does. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. THOMAS-Anymore questions for the applicant? If not, a motion's in order. MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 34-1997 KAREN A. SHEVLIN, Introduced by Lewis Stone who moved for its adoption, seconded by Bonnie Lapham: Of 220 Fifth Street Ext., the applicant. The applicant proposes to construct an addition to an existing home. This new addition will not meet the front yard setback requirements for the SR-1A zone, which is currently 30 feet. The benefit to the applicant, the relief would allow the applicant to add living space to an existing home. Alternatives are limited, due to the location of the garage and the screened porch on the back of this property. The applicant is seeking 7.47 feet of front yard setback relief, and this,would not appear to be substantial, given the existing conditions in surrounding neighborhoods. It is anticipated that no negative impacts on the neighborhood or community will occur if this requested relief is granted. The difficult was not self created, in the sense that the current zoning requirements were not in place at the time the home was built. It is also apparent that the proposed addition would not be out of character from other homes in the neighborhood and would not have a negative effect on surrounding properties. Duly adopted this 23rd day of July, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stone, Mr. Karpeles, Mrs. Lapham, Mr. McNally, Mr. Custer, Mr. Hayes, Mr. Thomas NOES: NONE MR. THOMAS-There you go. MS. SHEVLIN-Thanks. MR. THOMAS-No one from Betsy Malman showed up yet. So we'll go on to the next one on the agenda, Dennis Mabb. - 3 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) USE VARIANCE NO. 35-1997 TYPE: UNLISTED CR-15 DENNIS MABB OWNER: TRUMAN GLEASON 15 BIG BAY ROAD, OFF OF CORINTH ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO LOCATE A MOBILE HOME ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY WHICH IS OUTSIDE A MOBILE HOME OVERLAY ZONE AND IS LOCATED IN A CR- 15 ZONE. MOBILE HOMES ARE NOT ALLOWED USES IN A CR-15 ZONE. RELIEF IS BEING REQUESTED FROM THE LIST OF ALLOWED USES IN SECTION 179-24, COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL 15 ZONE. TAX MAP NO. 136-2-5 LOT SIZE: 0.17 ACRES SECTION 179-24 DENNIS MABB & TRUMAN GLEASON, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Use Variance No. 35-1997, Dennis Mabb, Meeting Date: July 23, 1997 "PROPOSED LOCATION: 15 Big Bay Road PROJECT DESCRIPTION AND CONFORMANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE: Applicant proposes to place a mobile home on a lot which is not in a Mobile Home Overlay Zone. The current zoning of this property, CR-15, does not allow Mobile Homes as a permitted or Site Plan use. USE VARIANCE REVIEW CRITERIA, BASED ON SECTION 267-b OF TOWN LAW: 1. IS A REASONABLE RETURN POSSIBLE IF THE LAND IS USED AS ZONED? The applicant should submit information indicating whether or not this property can be used for one of the allowed uses in the CR-15 zone. 2. IS THE ALLEGED HARDSHIP RELATING TO THIS PROPERTY UNIQUE, OR DOES IT ALSO APPLY TO A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD? The fact that there are other mobile homes in the immediate area may create a unique hardship which limits what the property can be used for. 3. IS THERE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? Placing a mobile home on this property would not adversely effect the character of the surrounding neighborhood. 4. IS THIS THE MINIMUM VARIANCE NECESSARY TO ADDRESS THE UNNECESSARY HARDSHIP PROVEN BY THE APPLICANT AND AT THE SAME TIME PROTECT THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE OF THE COMMUNITY? It appears that using this property for a mobile home could be considered minimum relief. Staff Comments: The ZBA and the applicant should be aware that any mobile home on this lot will need to meet the setback requirements of the CR-15 zone. Those setbacks are: 50 foot front yard, 20 foot side yard and rear yard. If these setbacks can't be met, the applicant will have to apply for an area variance from these requirements. SEQR: Unlisted action, short form EAF review required. II MR. THOMAS-All right. Mr. Mabb or Mr. Gleason? Are there any comments you want to add or make for this application? MR. GLEASON-Not really. It's been a trailer there, I think it's been three years now. Other than that, no. MR. THOMAS-What size is that lot. MR. GLEASON-It's 150 deep, 50 wide. MR. STONE-Which lot is it exactly? I mean, I parked there and I looked and there's an old trailer there to the south. MR. GLEASON-It's right next to that, with that little garage. MR. STONE-To the north or to the? MR. GLEASON-Well, it would be coming toward Corinth Road. MR. STONE-So it's where there's like a garage. MR. GLEASON-A little garage, that's it. MR. STONE-That's the lot. That's what I thouqht, but. - 4 - ....,..,.. (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. KARPELES-Where is it in relationship to Curtis Lumber? MR. STONE-Two lots north. MR. GLEASON-No, probably, I think it's three. MR. KARPELES-I don't think I was looking at the right lot at all. MRS. LAPHAM-I wasn't either, then, because I was looking at this big blank wooded. I don't remember seeing a garage. MR. KARPELES-I couldn't see any sign. MR. THOMAS-Yes. On the application it says 345 feet from the intersection of Corinth Road. MR. GLEASON-There's about four lots from Curtis. Then you've got the trailer that's there now, and then you've got that lot. MR. THOMAS-That lot that has the garage on it. Because there weren' t any maps or anything like that with the application. Usually we have maps and stuff like that. MR. STONE-It had a drawing, but it didn't help. MR. KARPELES-What is the RET-15? What does that mean? I've never could figure that out. It says, fourth lot left - RET. MR. MABB-Lot 15. MR. KARPELES-Lot 15. MR. STONE-I do have one question about the application, Mr. Chairman, and I'm sure it's confusion on the part of the applicant, but we ought to address it. In Number One, there seems to be an X in "Yes", which means that he can't even request a Use Variance if he says there can be a reasonable return as zoned. MR. THOMAS-Well, I don't see it as an "X" in there. I see it as like maybe in the copying machine, how that, the flap there puts little marks 'on there. MRS. LAPHAM-Right. MR. THOMAS-Mine at work does that all the time. MR. STONE-Okay. I'll buy that. MR. THOMAS-But my next question is, is a reasonable return possible if the land is used as zoned? And, you know, we're looking for solid dollars and cents proof, can it be used in a CR-15 zone. Have you tried to sell it as anything other than? MR. GLEASON-Sure. I'll sell it. Does anybody want to buy it? I'll sell it tonight. Give me the right price. MR. MABB-The only thing I'm doing is just renting it, and then if he sells it, you know, all I'm doing is putting a trailer in there, because I've got, my step father wants his property back. So I had to find another piece, and now I'm living in Hudson Falls while my trailer's empty, waiting to set it up. MR. STONE-It's not YOU that we're asking the question of, in the sense. It's the owner of the lot, when we talk about a reasonable return, and that is one of the hard and fast rules. MR. THOMAS-Well, since the lot is 50 by 150, the allowed uses are a single family dwelling and a duplex, and Type II, which are by - 5 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) Planning Board, an office building, social club or fraternal organization, hospital, nursing home, and health related facility, day care center, restaurant, banking facility, gasoline station with or without automobile repair facility, as an accessory use, home occupation, a hotel, motel, inn or lodge, retail business or veterinary clinic. Could any of those be put on a 50 by 150 lot? MR. STONE-Single Family Residential. MRS. LAPHAM-Or a duplex. MR. THOMAS-It's CR-15, so you'd have to have 30,000. MR. STONE-7500. MR. THOMAS-Yes. We've only got 7500. There's nowhere near it. As 1 can see, in my own opinion, that under Type II, there's none of those, nothing could go on that lot, you know, any of the Type II actions, which are by Planning Board. MR. HAYES-Is that the only parcel that you own, then? MR. GLEASON-No. I own across the road. I've lived up there 25 years, and I just built a house, four years ago. MR. STONE-But you have no property on that side of the road except that one lot? MR. GLEASON-Just that one lot. Across the road I own. MR. STONE-Yes. You couldn't combine two lots, I guess, is what I'm asking. MR. GLEASON-No. MR. THOMAS-To give it more area. MR. GLEASON-Yes. I'd like it, but. MR. THOMAS-Yes, garage, storage facility; private feet; nonenclosed purposes. but you don't. Accessory uses are a private shed, swimming pool, outdoor athletic/court greenhouse, up to three hundred (300) square deck used for restaurant, club, tavern, or bar MR. STONE-So this is a nonconforming lot to begin with? MR. THOMAS-Yes. It's a nonconforming lot. In fact, it's half the size of a nonconforming. MR. STONE-That's right. MR. THOMAS-So, you know, that's where the difficulty is right there, and in the master plan, are they going to change the zoning up that way, that you know of? Because we talked about that with Curtis, that that was kind of, sort of not zoned correctly. MR. HILTON-Yes. I would agree with that, although I'm not sure what the plans are, if they've met and discussed that neighborhood. When I say "neighborhood", meaning that area of Town. MR. THOMAS-Yes. MR. HILTON-I'm not sure how far they've gotten, if they've made any recommendations. MR. THOMAS-Okay. AnYmore questions for the applicant, before I open up the public hearing? - 6 - "--' (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. MCNALLY-When did you buy this lot, was it 25 years ago? MR. GLEASON-No. I'd say probably I've owned it maybe 10 years ago, and when I first, I bought it, well, Walt Wood lived th7re practically all his life, and he passed away, and then I boug?t 1t, took the little trailer down that he had there, and then my s1ster- in-law wanted to put a trailer there, and we put that there, and when I built the new house, she moved off the land. MR. MCNALLY-I understand about three years ago this mobile home was taken off there? MR. GLEASON-No. It's about three years ago, I think, maybe about three, four years ago now. MR. STONE-Where was the mobile home in regard to the garage that's there? MR. GLEASON-Well, okay, if you're looking at it, it was like the long way, backed in like that,. and the front was out next to the road. MR. STONE-Right next to the garage? MR. GLEASON-Well, no. MR. STONE-You say it's 50 foot wide? I didn't measure the garage. MR. GLEASON-Maybe it's 12 feet, 15 feet between that and the garage. MR. CUSTER-When was your sister's trailer, when was it put in there? MR. GLEASON-Lets see, probably '88, '89 or '90, something like that. MR. CUSTER-Was that after the zoning was changed, Chris? MR. THOMAS-Yes. The zoning changed in '88, but if it was before that. MR. GLEASON-No. I had to go through all this. See, where I goofed up is when she moved off, I didn't put another trailer there, because I guess you have a certain length of time. MR. THOMAS-Yes, you have 18 months. MR. GLEASON-Right, and I thought it was grandfathered in, I wouldn't have any problems. MR. THOMAS-Yes. So there was one variance on that property before. MR. GLEASON-Right, about four years ago. That's why it's set up for, it's got a slab. It's got septic. Well, I've got to add on to the septic, but there's a piece of paper in there where I said I'd agree to update the septic system, and the water's in there, and the gas is in there. MR. CUSTER-If you had sited something on there 18 months ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation. MR. GLEASON-Right. MR. THOMAS-The lot is a 50 by 150, and what size is the mobile home that's going to go on there? MR. MABB-14 by 70. - 7 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. THOMAS-14 by 70. MRS. LAPHAM-You're going to turn it the long way? MR. MABB-Yes. MR. GLEASON-I think what we had to do was, like when you okayed it, then we had to put in for a variance for not enough footage in the front or not enough footage in the back. I don't know. MR. THOMAS-Yes, because you've got to have 50 in the front, and 20 in the back. So that's 70, and 70 and 70 is 140. So it's fit lengthwise. MRS. LAPHAM-But width wise. MR. THOMAS-Width wise. MR. STONE-You've got 20 and 20. So that's 40. MR. THOMAS-Yes, and the trailer's 14 foot wide. MR. STONE-Plus the garage is still going to be there. MR. GLEASON-Yes. I had to put up like fire something, because it's cement block. So I had to put up like, you know, the trailer's here, and then there was a gap, and then they wanted fire sheetrock or something against. MR. STONE-No possibility of taking the garage down? MR. GLEASON-I'd rather not, no. MR. THOMAS-Anymore questions for the applicant? If not, I'll open the public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak in favor of this application? In favor of? Anyone wishing to speak opposed? Opposed? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED RONALD STEWART MR. STEWART-I'm Ronald Stewart. I live at 481 Big Bay Road, across from where they want to put the trailer. I feel that there's two trailers that are already empty and run down down there, and I have a brand new house right across from where it's going to be. I feel that I should have the right to speak my word against it, even. I mean, he's got, you know, it's been there before, and it's been up for three years. I feel it shouldn't be there. I have little kids running around, and more traffic coming up and down the road makes it more. MR. THOMAS-Well, you know, one of the uses that you could have in there for, if the lot was bigger, you could have a gas station in there. You could have an office building. You could have a hospital in there. You could have a restaurant, which, you know, tha t would really generate the t raf f i c . Now, we're talking a single family dwelling here versus something like a restaurant. MR. STEWART-Well, it would be better than a trailer. MR. THOMAS-Well, if you're talking traffic. MR. STONE-Question. That trailer to the south, the one that's sitting parallel to the street, with the garage next to it, is that occupied? MR. STEWART-No, there's nobody in that trailer. That's on the same - 8 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) side that I'm on. MR. STONE-No, no, across the street. MR. STEWART-Across the street? That's empty, too. MR. GLEASON-They're supposed to be moving that off. I don't know. MR. STEWART-That's Mr. Parillo's property. MR. STONE-How long has that been vacant, that trailer? MR. GLEASON-If it is vacant, it was a month ago there was people in it. MR. STEWART-Not too long ago, I know that, but I'm just saying, it's vacant now. MR. STONE-Okay. building. MR. GLEASON-What he does is rents it out. Looking at it, I had some concerns about the MR. THOMAS-Any questions for Mr. Stewart? Anything else you want to say? MR. STEWART-No, I guess that's it. MR. THOMAS-All right. Would anyone else like to speak opposed? Last chance. Correspondence? MRS. LAPHAM-No. MR. THOMAS-All right. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. THOMAS-Anyone else have any questions for the applicant? MR. STONE-I have a question, not of the applicant, or of George, I guess. In granting, if we granted a Use Variance, to whom are we granting it? The owner of the land? Or could we condition it on just the applicant who is renting this piece of property? MR. HILTON-Really, the variances run with the land. So you're granting the variance to the property and the current property owner, and it would pass on to the next owner, and it would also apply to anyone that lives there, rents a home, anything along those lines. It really runs with the land. MR. THOMAS-Does that answer your question? MR. STONE-Yes. MR. THOMAS-Okay. All right. Lets talk about this one. MRS. LAPHAM-I just have one more question, though. Now, if we all agree that this should be here, would they have to come back to deal with the setbacks? MR. HILTON-It sounds like they would, with the size home that they would like to put on there, that they would have to come back for an Area Variance, yes. MR. THOMAS-What do you think, Robert? MR. KARPELES-I disagree with the variance. Basically I feel that the trailer should stay in the trailer zones, and I don't see any - 9 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) reason for granting an exception to this one. I think that the trailers that are there are run down, and are already a detriment to the neighborhood. I'd hate to put another one in there that's going to become the same way. MR. THOMAS-Okay. Lou? MR. STONE-Well, I'm concerned, this being a Use Variance, and we have very strict guidelines to go by. I'm concerned that, as merely a statement by the owner that it ~ a trailer and can't be used as anything else. Even though we can read the law, I don't see any information, I don't even see a formal statement on the part of the applicant, or at least the owner of the land, and as we all know, Number One is, has to be met. It says, we need information, whether it's money or at least a prepared statement, and I would like to see more effort going into Number One, on the part of the applicant. MR. THOMAS-Jaime? MR. HAYES-Well, I agree with Bob, in that I really don't think that mobile homes should be out of their zoned areas, and that street in particular, Big Bay Road, there's positive development going on with a mixture of some stuff that's probably not as desirable as what is changing on that road. I think there's a transitional period, but I also am not sure what reasonable return could be obtained on that particular parcel. So I could go either way. I'd like to hear what the rest of the Board has to say. MR. THOMAS-All right. Brian? MR. CUSTER-I, too, am kind of sitting on the fence a little bit here. On one side I agree with Bob and Lew. I don't know if the financial hardship is being absolutely proved. In an area where there is no mobile home overlay. I think we're setting a precedent that may be a little bit dangerous by granting a variance. On the other hand, there's the argument that it was there in the past, and just for lack of a better site, the property has been stymied, so to speak, and I could understand where the applicant is coming from. So it's a tough call. I'm not really sure where I am right now. MR. THOMAS-All right. Bob? MR. MCNALLY-In some sense, I think a mobile home on a lot such as this miqht be attractive or could be made attractive, but in large part, the applicant, Mr. Gleason's required to come forth with financial information, hard and fast financial information to demonstrate to us that there really is no reasonable return under the existing uses the land could be put. One of the persons here today just put a home up across the street, and I don't see how, I don't see why the property can't be used for Single Family uses or as a duplex, and admittedly is probably too small for some of the more commercial uses that might be permitted with site plan review. These other uses haven't been demonstrated being feasible for (lost words). The other thing to take into account is, and with all due respect to Mr. Gleason, there ~ an existing use which has been gone for three years, and in some sense, that's a self created hardship. Without that financial information, and I don't (lost words), I don't really see a reason to grant this variance at all. MR. THOMAS-Okay. Bonnie? MRS. LAPHAM-I'm kind of with Brian and Jaime. I could go either way at this point. Mr. Gleason, have you ever marketed the property in any way? Have you listed it with a realtor? MR. GLEASON-No. - 10 - -_/ (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MRS. LAPHAM-Because that would provide us some sense of financial hardship, or whether or not the property c~uld be u~ed as zoned, if you put it on the market for a single fam1ly dwell1ng. Because I do agree with the other Board members wh~ feel that i~'s too sm~ll for most of the uses, with the except10n of the s1ngle fam1ly residence. MR. GLEASON-As far as I know, 50 wide lots, you couldn't even build a house on, unless I'm wrong. MRS. LAPHAM-It would be a nonconforming lot, wouldn't it? MR. MCNALLY-As I look at it, any use you want to put this property to is essentially going to require an Area Variance, because whether it's a mobile home 14 feet wide, you've got 20 foot side lot setbacks. MR. GLEASON-Well, wouldn't that be better than if you build a house? MR. MCNALLY-I don't know. I don't know what other alternative you might propose or might be financially feasible, but I think it's a moot question because, if anything, you're going to need an Area Variance. MR. GLEASON-Well, I know my bank, the way my bankbook, it isn't feasible for me to put a house there. MR. STONE-Mr. Chairman, I was just thinking about this. I also have a concern in that the owner is not the one who is trying to use the land for his own use. He's using it as, one could say, as a trailer park. He's allowing a tenant to bring in a trailer, a mobile home, and put it on his property, which is what a trailer park operator does, and I'm concerned that, therefore, we're going even further afield in saying, I have a lot, let me put a mobile home on it to live in. So, it kind of says, let me rent the land for somebody else to do something which requires a variance, and therefore, I'm even more concerned. MR. THOMAS-Yes. I'm going along with the rest of the Board here on this one. It could go either way, but since there isn't any financial evidence that's been presented, and the hardship relating to this property I think is unique, in the size of the property. It's only half of what the zone calls for in this area. It would alter the character of the neighborhood, just like Mr. Stewart just built a house across the street there, and there's other houses that are fairly new up and down that west side of the road, and the alleged hardship, well, self created, you could probably go yes and no on that one because, yes, the mobile home that was there was gone, but, no, you know, it's a substandard lot with this zone. So, like I say, it's on the fence. MRS. LAPHAM-Well, I think the point that Lew brought up, too, you know, you tend to forget, or at least I did, I tend to forget, as I was sitting here, that it's not the owner of the land who wants to put up a mobile home for he and his family. It's a tenant situation, and income property. That makes a bit of a difference to me, because then you're not only adding a mobile home that isn't supposed to be there, but you're also adding an income property, as opposed to a residential property that is being lived in by the owner. MR. THOMAS-That's true. MRS. LAPHAM-So, you know, that's kind of put me off at this point. MR. THOMAS-Does anybody else have anything they want to say? If not, I'll ask for a motion. Wait, we've got to do the EAF first? - 11 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. HILTON-Yes, you probably should.) Is it the Board's position that you might be tabling this and looking for financial information? I mean, that would be the only reason, I'm just throwing that in. If you're going to do that, then you can wait to do the EAF, I guess. MR. THOMAS-Okay. Well, we'll let the owner make the decision on that. Would you like us to table this for up to 62 days while you get competent financial evidence? Because I think otherwise it's ,going to get shot down. MR. GLEASON-I'll just pay taxes on a vacant lot. MR. THOMAS-Okay. So we have to do the Short EAF. MOTION THAT REVIEW OF THE SHORT ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT FORM INDICATES THAT THERE ARE NO NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS ON THIS LAND, Introduced by Chris Thomas who moved for its adoption, seconded by Lewis Stone: Duly adopted this 23rd day of July, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Lapham, Mr. McNally, Mr. Custer, Mr. Hayes, Mr. Stone, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas NOES: NONE MR. THOMAS-All right. Now, would someone like to make a motion for, against, or to table? MRS. LAPHAM-Well, how does the Board feel about tabling? MR. THOMAS-Well, the owner doesn't want to. MR. GLEASON-It doesn't matter to me how you rule. I'm just saying, if you turn it down, then I'll just pay taxes on vacant land. Because I don't have money enough to build a house, build a garage, or whatever has got to go there, and I figured I could help these people out. They needed a trailer, but if I have to go through other channels to try and get it on there, I'll do it, but I don't know if they can wait another six months, few months. MR. HAYES-I'll make a motion, then. MOTION TO DENY USE VARIANCE NO. 35-1997 DENNIS MABB, Introduced by Paul Hayes who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert McNally: I believe that there would be an adverse effect on the essential character of the neighborhood, and I don't believe that the applicant or the owner has provided us with adequate financial information concerning a reasonable return of the property as zoned. I don't think that the hardship is self created, being that the lot was an existing nonconforming lot, and it was used in the past in that way, and he is asking for minimal relief, as far as a Use Variance. So I would essentially say that my motion rests on not proving that a reasonable return is possible as zoned, and that it would have an adverse effect, as neighbors and others have alluded to on the essential character of the neighborhood. Duly adopted this 23rd day of July, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Custer, Mr. Hayes, Mr. Stone, Mr. Karpeles, Mrs. Lapham, Mr. McNally, Mr. Thomas NOES: NONE MR. THOMAS-So the application is denied. Sportline Honda. Next on the agenda, - 12 - ---" (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) SIGN VARIANCE NO. 36-1997 TYPE: UNLISTED HC-1A SPORTLINE HONDA APPLICANT PROPOSES TO POST A TEMPORARY SIGN LONGER THAN THE TIME PERIOD ALLOWED FOR TEMPORARY SIGNS. THE SIGN WILL ALSO BE LARGER THAN WHAT IS CURRENTLY ALLOWED BY THE SIGN ORDINANCE. RELIEF IS BEING REQUESTED FROM THE REQUIREMENTS FOR TEMPORARY SIGNS LISTED IN SECTION 140-4, TEMPORARY SIGNS. TAX MAP NO. 73-1-11.2 LOT SIZE: 3.58 ACRES SECTION 140-4 MR. HILTON-Sportline Honda has submitted a letter. withdrawn their variance. They have MR. THOMAS-Do you have that letter in the file there? MR. HILTON-Yes. It should be at the back of the box. MRS. LAPHAM-Yes, here it is. Should I read it into the record? MR. THOMAS-Yes, just read it. MRS. LAPHAM-Okay. Re: Sign Variance No. 36-1997, Sportline Honda, July 22, 1997, Town of Queensbury, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury, NY 12804-5902, Attention: John Goralski, Zoning Administrator, "Dear John: We've submitted a variance application to the Town for an oversized temporary sign which will be placed at the Knights of Columbus on Route 9, Lake George Road. We will be removing this sign on July 22, 1997. Therefore, we wish to withdraw our application. Thank you. Very truly yours, Gary R. Cardinale" MR. THOMAS-There we go. That takes care of that one. Now, about this Betsy Malman thing here. MR. HILTON-I guess no one is here to speak for Betsy Malman. The application was tabled on June 18th. The tabling is good up to 62 days. The Board has the option of hearing it again in August. That'll be the end of the 62 day tabling period. So the applicant will have to appear, and in the meantime, we will contact the applicant and make sure they're prepared, I guess, or at least tell them that they'll be on. MR. THOMAS-It sounds good to me. MR. STONE-Did anyone go by there? MR. THOMAS-Yes, I did. MR. STONE-And what were those yellow marks? Do you think that's where they want to put the garage now? MR. THOMAS-I think that's the edge, the side of the garage. MR. STONE- It was a square there. There was a rectangle between the deck, out about two feet from the deck. That's where I think it ouqht to go, but I didn't think that's where. MR. THOMAS-You've got to remember, there's a septic system in there. MR. STONE-Yes, but there's asphalt there. MR. THOMAS-Well, they could have put asphalt over the top of the septic system, because that's just the tank. That's not the. MR. STONE-You can't put a building over it? MR. THOMAS-No, you can't put a building over it. MR. STONE-Because I saw the marks when I stopped by. - 13 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. THOMAS-Did you look at the two by four in the air with the white rag around it, for the height of the building at that point? MR. STONE-Is that what that? I didn't notice that. MR. THOMAS-That's what we asked for. MR. STONE-I know. MR. THOMAS-How high is it going to be. MR. STONE-Well, I looked at the back lot, and the only way they see where it is now is by a chair way up in the back. MR. THOMAS-Yes. There's no way they can see that lake from the house. So, well, we'll talk about that. MR. STONE-We'll talk about it. unofficial. It means nothing. We're just talking. It's MR. THOMAS-Are you here opposed? NEIGHBOR-Yes. garage. I live next door to where they want to build the MR. STONE-Up or down? NEIGHBOR-Up. MR. STONE-Up, well your husband was here the last time. NEIGHBOR-Right. He had to go out of town. MR. STONE-Well, I didn't go on your property today, even though I asked permission of him. NEIGHBOR-Well, you can. MR. STONE-I know. MR. THOMAS-I was up there yesterday. There was no one around. MR. HILTON-To answer your question, I've had conversations with Ms. Malman and these two pieces of paper were received between last meeting and this meeting, and every indication was that they would be here, or as this letter indicates, a representative would be here. I can't speak to why they're not here. MR. STONE-You say, "two", George. What's the other one? MR. HILTON-We have the one showing the elevations, or the elevation, and then a letter that I have received July 11th, stating that Bill Howenstein would be representing her at the meeting. MR. STONE-Okay. We don't have that. MR. MCNALLY-He was the contractor that was here. MR. HILTON-Yes. MR. STONE-Who was not as prepared. MR. THOMAS-Well, having said that, we're going to do minutes. NEIGHBOR-Can I just ask when this will be? This is like my third trip to these meetings. Do you have a specific date when this is going to be discussed, then? It was supposed to be tonight. - 14 - '--' (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. HILTON-It was supposed to be tonight. We have two meetings in August. They are the third and fourth Wednesday. I believe it's the 19th or 26th. MR. STONE-The second one, is that within the 62 days, the second one? MR. HILTON-The second one would not be, the first one would. So, I guess we would have to have it on the first. MR. THOMAS-Yes. So, it'll be the third Wednesday in August, okay, and that's the Wednesday before the Travers. NEIGHBOR-And it could be changed? MR. THOMAS-You could probably call ahead of time, if you wanted to, to save yourself a trip, or if you're going to be up here anyway. MR. KARPELES-But if you'd called tonight, we would have told you to come. NEIGHBOR-I did call. That's why I came. MR. THOMAS-Yes, but since we don't have leashes on these people, we can't do anything about it. You know, we can't drag them in here. MR. STONE-Now, we could have, if it wasn't tabled, we could have discussed it and voted it down if we wanted to, but we can't do that because it is still on the table. MR. THOMAS-Yes, it's still on the table. So, having said that, we will now do minutes. We are up to, if I'm not mistaken. MR. STONE-We did one last week. MR. THOMAS-What did you do last week, May 28th? MR. STONE-Yes, whatever was on the agenda. MR. KARPELES-I thought we were all up to date. MR. STONE-Yes, May 28th. MR. THOMAS-We just got a set tonight, unless you want to, you did the May 28th ones? MR. STONE-Yes, we did. MR. THOMAS-All right. You just got the 25th ones tonight. So we'll wait until maybe next Wednesday, that meeting there, we'll do the minutes for June 25th. That'll give everybody a chance to go over them. MR. STONE-We did the 21st then, May 21st? MR. THOMAS-I don't know. Did we? MR. STONE-I've still got them. I don't know. MR. THOMAS-I don't have mY May 21st minutes. We may have done it, because in June, that would have, yes. MRS. LAPHAM-What time would the meeting next Wednesday be? MR. THOMAS-Four thirty in the afternoon, is what Susan told me. MR. STONE-Yes, but we were going to confirm that, I guess, with ourselves. - 15 - (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. THOMAS-Yes. MR. HILTON-This is the first I've heard of it. MR. THOMAS-Four thirty. Did everybody get a call from Sue? MR. HILTON-I thought you were talking about a past meeting. No, the 30th, it is 4:30. MR. THOMAS-Yes, next Wednesday at 4:30. Did everybody get a call on that? MR. CUSTER-I'll be in Rochester. MR. THOMAS-I'm going to be in Syracuse, but I'm going to try and get, well, I should be back by then, because my meeting's in the morning. MR. STONE-Can we meet with five? Yes, we can meet with five. MR. THOMAS-We can meet with four. MR. STONE-Four. You better be back. MR. THOMAS-You better be here. MR. STONE-I'll be here. MR. THOMAS-At 4:30, Wednesday afternoon, probably right here. MR. HILTON-No, actually, I think over in the Conference Room. MR. THOMAS-Well, we've tried that for the last two afternoon meetings, and they've always ended up here. This is where you make your money. MR. STONE-That's right. Well, we make it in two ways on that one. MR. THOMAS-Yes, right. MR. STONE-What was the gist of the meeting yesterday? MR. HILTON-We met with Mr. Aronson to determine exactly what he wants to do. There has been some confusion as to which properties he's including and which he isn't, and I think we have it nailed down. I think we have an idea from him what eventually he wants to do, and this meeting, again, will be reviewing the Use Variance and Area Variance, in order to include all the property that he wants to include. MR. STONE-What about the half lot that he's claiming he's going to buy? Does that make a substandard lot for the remainder? MR. HILTON-No. In order to do that, what he'll have to do is the person who owns the lot to the south will have to merge it, merge that other portion with an existing lot, but as long as that takes place, then everything would work. MR. THOMAS-This Use Variance here for Kim Butterfield, did we do that? MR. STONE-That's gone. MR. THOMAS-That's gone? MR. STONE-She lost a tenant, so that was off. MR. THOMAS-Okay. Michael Carne, he was the pool. - 16 - '-- ~ (Queensbury ZBA meeting 7/23/97) MR. STONE-Right, we did that. MR. THOMAS-Mike Barber we're still holding on to. MR. STONE-No, he's gone. MR. HILTON-Again, I think that it's probably dead, but let me confirm and see if we don't have to just do a quick motion to defeat it or have the applicant submit a letter withdrawing it. Let me just see. MR. THOMAS-Does anybody have anything else they want to say for the good of the Board? On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Chris Thomas, Chairman - 17 -