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1990-04-25 '"-,, .-../ QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SECOND REGULAR. MEETING APRIL 25TH, 1990 INDEX Area Variance No. 28-1990 Nancy S. and Peter L. Kudan l. Area Variance No. 29-1990 Lawrence R. Larson 7. Area Variance No. 30-1990 Mike Baird 13. Area Variance No. 31-1990 Use Variance No. 32-1990 Brian and Jean Mooney U-Hau1 Co. of N.E. New York, Inc. 16. 19. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. ',,--, QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SECOND REGULAR MEETING APRIL 25TH, 1990 7:30 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT THEODORE TURNER, CHAIRMAN SUSAN GOETZ, SECRETARY JOYCE EGGLESTON BRUCE CARR CHARLES SICARD MICHAEL SHEA JEFFREY KELLEY DEPUTY TOWN ATTORNEY-KARLA CORPUS ZONING ADMINISTRATOR-PAT COLLARD ASSISTANT PI..ANNER-STUART BAKER STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI CORRECTION OF MINUTES February 28th, 1990: MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 28TH, 1990, Introduced by Charles Sicard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Susan Goetz: Duly adopted this 25th day of April, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Shea, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSTAINED: Mrs. Eggleston March 21st, 1990: Page 5, bottom of Page, Mrs. Goetz stated because it has a 40 foot expansion, sib 40 percent expansion; Page 16, third paragraph, Mr. Turner stated and the development was never taken out anyway, sib taken off; Page l7, bottom of page, Mrs. Goetz speaking, the name Hunts sib Huntze's MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF MARCH 21ST, 1990 AS CORRECTED, Introduced by Jeffrey Kelley who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Eggleston: Duly adopted this 25th day of April, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSTAINED: Mr. Shea NEW BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 28-1990 SFR-1A TYPE II NANCY S. AND PETER L. KDDAN OWNER: SAKE AS ABOVE 10 PINEWooD AVENUE FOR AN ADDITION TO THE HOUSE; MASTER BEDROOM AND SOME ADDITIONAL CLOSET SPACE ADJOINING THE PRESENT MASTER. BEDROOM. REQUESTING RELIEF FROM REAR YARD SETBACK. TAX MAP NO. 81-3-11 LOT SIZE: 0.50 ACRES SECTION 4.020-H PETER KUDAN, PRESENT MR. TURNER-The layout of the house, all we've got is a sketch such as that. What size is the master bedroom now? MR. KUDAN-Itls about 13 by 13. MR. TURNER-13 by 13 and it I S on that corner (referring to sketch) right? It's on that corner that it's the closest to the expansion? 1 '--' MR. KUDAN-Y~s. Actulilly, th~ ~xplinsion is Ii bit, it's towlirds th~ front of th~ hous~, th~ ~xplinsion's towlirds th~ blick of th~ ~ntrlinc~ WIiY to, whlit is now, our pr~s~nt clos~t. MR. TURNER-How flir blick is th~ s~ptic tlink from th~ blick of hous~,..do you hliv~ liny id~li? MR. KUDAN-I don't know, ~xlict1y. I know thlit wh~n th~y put th~..liddition on, w~ hlid to mov~ th~ s~ptic tlink so thlit it would b~ flirth~r IiWIiY lind it's in th~ corn~r of th~ lot, I think. MR. TURNER-Show it right th~r~. Is thlit th~ pr~s~nt 10clition? MR. KUDAN-Y~s. MR. TURNER-Do you know how flir it is from th~ hous~? MR. KUDAN-Exlictly? No, I don't. MR. SHEA-Mr. Kudlin, did you giv~ liny consid~rlition to th~ liddition b~ing mor~ towlirds th~ blick of th~ hous~ so liS to minimiz~ th~ s~tblick r~quir~m~nt. MR. KUDAN-Wh~r~ it's showing is th~ blick of th~ hous~, on your drliwing. This up h~r~ is th~ front. You lipprolich from Avilition ROlid, h~r~. You com~ up, this is ~ss~ntililly th~ front of our hous~. This is wh~r~ w~ look out lind this is our blickYlird. Our blickYlird is blick h~r~. MR. SHEA-So, this would b~ th~ sid~ of your hous~, th~n, would it not? MR. KUDAN-Y~s. MR. SHEA-So, whlit I'm lisking is, is th~r~ liny possibility of mliking this liddition, whlit rooms lir~ on your wlil1, th~r~? MR. KUDAN-My son's b~droom. MR. SHEA-OkIiY, so you clin't do it.. MR. KUDAN-No. MR. KELLEY-Ev~n though it' s th~ sid~ of th~ hous~, is thlit consid~r~d th~ front Ylird b~clius~ it's on Ii str~~t? MR. TURNER-Y~s. MR. KELLEY-In th~ory it should hliv~ Ii 30 foot s~tblick. MR. TURNER-Y~s. MR. KELLEY-Now, th~ thing thlit's chling~d, 1i1so, sinc~ I'm..flimililir with th~ Iir~1i is, I think, problibly, WIiY blick wh~n this WIiS d~sign~d, it WIiS, I would gu~ss problibly Ii 15,000 or 20,000 squlir~ foot zon~ lind I think, it hlid to hliv~ b~~n Ii 30 foot s~tblick, ~v~n th~n. This WIiS Ii long tim~ ligo. MR. TURNER-It could hliv~ b~~n. MR. KELLEY-So th~ chling~ to Ii 1 licr~ zon~ might hliv~ clius~d him som~ hlirdship, but I gu~ss w~ still hliv~ to look lit it liS if it's Ii... MR. TURNER-How long hlis th~ hous~ b~~n th~r~? MR. KUDAN-I b~li~v~ it WIiS built in 1955 or '58, som~wh~r~ in th~r~. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE 2 '-' STAFF INPUT Not~s from Stuart Bak~r, Assistant Plann~r (attach~d) MR. KELLEY-I'v~ b~~n r~ading som~ stuff h~r~ b~caus~ I know you w~r~ talking about th~ s~ptic location. Did w~ ~xhaust all possibiliti~s of coming out th~ back, h~r~? MR. TURNER-I don't know. That's what I 'm wond~ring. That's why I tri~d to g~t to th~ s~ptic tank issu~, but h~ still do~sn't hav~ an answ~r for that. You know, if th~ s~ptic tank is far ~nough out of th~ way MR. KUDAN-I don't think th~r~'s ~nough room. MR. TURNER-You'v~ got 12 f~~t in th~r~ and go 20 foot back. MR. KUDAN-Y~s, and still b~ far ~nough away from th~ s~ptic tank. MR. TURNER-What could you accomplish if you mad~ a wrap around, a st~p back from th~ front of th~ hous~, that corn~r th~r~, go around lik~ that and...? L~t m~ show you (R~f~rring to sketch). Cut this off, lik~ that. Would that accomp lish anything? MR. KUDAN-This front lin~ h~r~, I think it ~xt~nds, that' s lik~ th~ v~ry back ~nd of th~.. MR. TURNER-And th~n your son's b~droom. MR. KUDAN-Our son's, w~l1, our clos~t is... right back th~r~ wh~r~ that Numb~r 29 is. That's about th~ only ~ntranc~, and th~n b~gins my son's b~droom. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. KUDAN-So, this is th~ only point of acc~ss from our b~droom. MR. KELLEY-Is th~ mast~r b~droom in th~ front of th~ hous~? MR. KUDAN-Y~s, if you divid~ th~ hous~ in half. MR. TURNER-...son's rOom is back h~r~, so th~ only acc~ss you would hav~ to that ...is.. MR. CARR-Mr. Kudan, could I ask you a qu~stion for a s~cond. How big is your son IS room? MR. KUDAN-It's almost as big as our. It's about 11 by 12. MR. CARR-I was w()nd~ring if you could switch your room for his room and th~n,.. off that, what would b~ th~ back of th~ hous~. I was wond~ring, is that a f~asibl~ a1t~rnativ~? MR. KUDAN-It's not d~sirab1~. I suppos~ it could b~ don~. MRS. GOETZ-Do you hav~ a mast~r bathroom? MR. KUDAN-No. MRS. GOETZ-So, it's not lik~ you hav~ to b~ in that front b~droom. MR. KUDAN-No, w~ don't hav~ to. MR. CARR-But, why wouldn't it b~ d~sirab1~? MRS. KUDAN-... is a littl~ bit bigg~r in th~ front and it fac~s th~ front of th~ house, th~ whol~ n~ighborhood and my son's room is inth~ back. It just is a littl~ more tuck~d away wh~n it's h~ls in th~ back of th~ hous~..psychologically, wh~r~ it would b~ redoing our b~droom and his b~droom, ~ntir~ly, again. W~' d b~ r~d~corating ~v~rything if w~ switch~d rooms. Th~ rooms would.. ~xc~pt for th~ addition, but if you add th~ clos~t in th~ mast~r b~droom, just r~doing a bath, we wouldn't hav~ to switch our room with our sons. If w~ had to r~do both rooms ~ntir~ly with, you know, drap~s, paint, pap~r, carp~t, would b~ ~xtr~m~ly ~xp~nsiv~. 3 '~ '--" MR. KUDAN-And w~ just did our son's rOOm b~caus~ w~ hav~ a s~cond son that's coming along and h~ took th~ room in th~ back. MR. SHEA-Th~ difficulty is that you' r~ going to hav~ to prov~ that you do not hav~ r~asonab1~ us~ of th~ prop~rty and, by all int~nts and purpos~s, you do and that, along with th~ s~tback. That's why w~' r~ trying to work with you on it and h~lp you com~ up with a cr~ativ~ way to put this addition, s~~ if you guys can switch b~drooms, what~v~r th~ cas~ may b~. MRS. KUDAN-.. ~xt~nd out to th~ backyard far ~nough, if w~ did that back b~droom b~caus~ th~ s~ptic tank MR. KUDAN-I think w~'r~ pr~tty clos~ with our s~ptic tank. MR. TURNER-Y~s, you'v~ got to b~ 10 f~~t away from what~v~r you'r~ building. MRS. KUDAN-Y~s, but to b~ outsid~ our porch,... to th~ tank, wh~r~ th~y cl~an~d out that summ~r. MR. TURNER-That's wh~r~ th~ cl~an out is, for th~ tank. MR. KUDAN-Y~s. MR. KELLEY-I think th~ oth~r, so ca11~d, probl~m is that sinc~ that is a str~~t out th~r~ and th~ s~tback is r~quir~d to b~ 30 f~~t and you I r~ asking for 10, you know, th~ amount of r~li~f that you'r~ looking for is consid~rabl~. MR. KUDAN-That' s why I ch~ck~d on that b~caus~ th~r~' s no doubt wh~r~ it' s s~t and that's why I ca11~d it th~ uniqu~ natur~ of th~ prop~rty. By d~finition, you know, I r~ally hav~ a sid~ yard. I hav~ thr~~ front yards and a back yard. MR. KELLEY-W~ll, all w~'r~ trying to do, is to find a happy m~dium. MR. TURNER-L~t m~ just say this, just b~caus~ you might hav~ don~ your son's room ov~r again do~sn' t m~an that that's a practical difficulty, that' s maint~nanc~. MR. CARR-T~d, I think h~' s shown that.. room off th~ back is in proximity to th~ s~ptic syst~m. MR. TURNER-W~ll, y~s, that's th~ answ~r w~ can't g~t. I gu~ss sh~'s saying it's n~ar th~ porch. So, if it's n~ar th~ porch, it's way ov~r h~r~. MR. KELLEY-Is th~r~ any way you could g~t th~ ~xact location for us, m~asur~ around back sO w~ r~a1ly know what w~'r~ looking at? MR. KUDAN-I think w~ could do that. MR. KELLEY-I think it would b~ mor~ fair to us, in looking at th~ application, to say, y~s, it is th~r~ or no, it isn't and th~r~ mayb~ a1 t~rnati v~s. I think I'd f~~l b~tt~r about it and I'm sur~ th~, probably, th~ r~st of us would. MR. KUDAN-I think I can find out wh~r~ th~ s~ptic tank is without too much difficulty. MR. KELLEY-...pok~ som~ rods down and th~y can hit it and w~'ll know, pr~tty much, what...down th~r~. MR. KUDAN-I think th~ location, w~l1, it shows a s~ptic tank th~r~ and that's right, outsid~ th~ scr~~n porch, th~r~'s a slab that go~s right up to th~ s~ptic tank, that's our patio, but th~n w~ hav~, it do~sn't show, w~ hav~ a s~t of r~ar stairs that go down to our bas~m~nt, right th~r~. MR. TURNER-Outsid~ ~ntranc~? MR. KUDAN-It's an outsid~ ~ntranc~, y~s. MR. TURNER-Right, wh~r~? Right along sid~ h~r~? MR. KUDAN-Our slab, our porch, com~s out to h~r~ and th~n th~ c1~an out would b~, th~ porch is h~r~ and th~n w~ hav~ a slab that's a patio. MR. TURNER-How long is that? 4 '-" ----- MR. KUDAN-About 12 f~~t and th~n, right at th~ ~dg~ of that patio, going down this way, w~ hav~ a s~t of stairs, it go~s almost to th~ ~dg~ of th~ hous~, th~n th~r~'s room for on~ tr~~ and an air conditioning unit. MR. KELLEY-Und~rstanding all of that now, I think, Mik~'s id~a was, is th~r~ any possibility of coming back this way and. .this kind of thing and flip flopping this. MR. KUDAN-That's..f1ip flopping rooms. MR. KELLEY-So that this kind of b~com~s on~ room and th~n this would b~ a room up h~r~. W~'ll s~~ how far back you could do it, ~ach tim~ you go back, you'd gain MR. KUDAN-A f~w f~~t. I und~rstand, that's why I said, you n~~d... I wouldn't say that's impossibl~ b~caus~, again, this porch has a nic~, cl~an, w~ hav~ a nic~ back yard. W~ hav~ a gard~n h~r~ and it's a cl~an vi~w across. If w~ put this up, it's going to r~ally, I think it would m~ss, not that it couldn' t b~ don~, but I don't think it would l~av~ any a~sth~tic...it's an all op~n porch. You know, I wouldn't say, you know, t~chnically, I suppos~, you can do anything. You can build that way, but I don't think it would h~lp th~ prop~rty at all. MR. TURNER-Ar~ you satisfi~d with th~ answ~r, J~ff? MR. KELLEY-W~ll, at it, but with and walk around mix~d ~motions. it's a litt1~ mor~ cl~ar. You know, I m~an, I w~nt by and look~d th~ h~dg~ th~r~, it would b~ tough to s~~, if you didn't g~t out b~hind it, to s~~ wh~r~ th~ air condition~r was and th~...I hav~ Your drawing says, OKO Custom Hom~s, Chris and Orvill~, right? MR. KUDAN-Y~s. MR. KELLEY-Did th~y com~ up with th~ propos~d location? MR. KUDAN-Th~ location, th~ plac~ w~ d~sir~d to put th~ addition was our choic~. Th~y cam~ up, w~ ask~d th~m if th~y thought th~r~ was any oth~r plac~ or any way w~ might accomplish it, if w~ w~r~n't succ~ssful h~r~ and Chris said h~ didn't r~al1y think anything would b~ much, you know, again, if you cam~ off th~ back and look, b~caus~ th~y built th~ porch for us, as w~ll, and h~ said it would r~a1ly not h~lp th~ porch, th~ vi~w of th~ back yard. MR. TURNER-Is this roof going to hav~ th~ sam~ pitch as th~ oth~r roof? MR. KUDAN-Y~s, I' d lik~ it to look lik~ it was part of th~ hous~, originally, not lik~ an... MR. TURNER-So, mayb~ what th~y w~r~ saying was, mayb~ it's not f~asib1~ to mov~ it to th~ back b~caus~ it's going to chang~ th~ cut of th~ road. MR. KUDAN-It would, I don't know. I'm not sur~ how on~ would accomplish th~ roof. MR. TURNER-But it's got to..th~ roof? MR. KUDAN-Y~s. MR. TURNER-Th~ outsid~ of th~ arborvita~ h~dg~, is that your prop~rty lin~? What ar~ w~ m~asuring, th~ 10 f~~t you'v~ got th~r~? MR. KUDAN-I b~li~v~, wh~n I put it in, I put it right about at th~ prop~rty lin~ b~caus~ th~r~' s a surv~y mark~r in th~ back corn~r and I put it just insid~ th~ surv~y mark~r. It was a littl~ difficult to d~t~rmin~ th~ ang1~ of that, but th~r~ was a tr~~ out front that I us~d as a mark~r in th~ front and I dr~w a lin~ and th~n I sunk th~ tr~~. MR. TURNER-But you'r~ not sur~ about that? MR. KUDAN-No. MR. TURNER-That front mark~r? MR. KUDAN-Y~s, th~ point I us~d to draw my lin~ in th~ front, I'm not ~ntir~ly sur~ of. 5 ',,--, MR. SHEA-Mr. Kudan, I, p~rsonally, would f~~l mor~ comfortabl~ if you could s~~ if th~r~ w~r~ oth~r a1t~rnativ~s to this and try to ask for l~ss of a minimum r~li~f on th~ s~tback. I'd 10v~ to s~~ you hav~ a nic~ n~w mast~r b~droom addition on th~ hom~, but I s~ns~ that you n~~d a lítt1~ mor~ work on this, ~v~n though it's not a major r~qu~st. I, p~rsonal1y, would f~~l mor~ comfortabl~ with it. I think that I could probably work b~tt~r on your b~ha1f, if w~ inv~stigat~d som~ alt~rnativ~s. MR. TURNER-Could w~ hav~ your p~rmission to tabl~? Ar~ you comfortabl~ with that? MR. KUDAN-Sur~. MR. TURNER-Can you bring us back som~thing a littl~ diff~r~nt. Tak~ anoth~r look at it and s~~ what you can do with it. MR. KUDAN-Wh~n would you lik~ us to com~ back? MR. TURNER-About anoth~r month. Would that b~ alright? MR. KUDAN-Y~s. MR. CARR-I was just going to say, I thought h~ had look~d into alt~rnativ~s through th~s~ Custom Hom~s p~op1~. I thought th~y said th~r~ r~al1y is no oth~r alt~rnativ~. Was that what you w~r~ saying? MR. KUDAN-Y~s. Th~y'r~ th~ p~op1~ who'v~ don~ all our construction and I kn~w, I was asking, I kn~w that, coming b~for~ this Board, I was asking for a lot of r~lí~f, sO I want~d to know if th~r~ was anything I could do that would minimiz~ it, short of making it a narrow thing, which w~ can't do and short of going off th~ back, which caus~s oth~r probl~ms. This was th~ l~ast off~nsiv~, if you will, approach. MR. CARR-T~d, I also, you know, your.. addition, just pushing it back. I'm not sur~ I lik~ th~ look of that b~caus~ th~n you'r~ making kind of a jagg~d hous~. MR. TURNER-W~ll, you'v~ got th~ porch b~hind it. Th~ porch is out th~r~ 18 f~~t. MR. CARR-Y~s. MR. EGGLESTON-T~d, do~sn't th~ chang~ in th~ zoning and th~ uniqu~ layout of th~ prop~rty, show practical difficulty? MR. TURNER-W~ll, in a s~ns~, but th~r~'s a lot of ar~a th~r~, l~ft, that you can do som~thing with, too. Right th~r~, you' r~ talking about putting an addition on, 20 f~~t long, 12 f~~t wid~ by 20 foot long. Th~ hous~ is only 29, sO th~r~'s 9 f~~t from th~ front of th~ hous~. MRS. GOETZ-Mr. Kudan, on th~ air conditioning, you m~ntion~d. Is it a, just an a.ir condition~r or is it 1ik~, is your whol~ hous~ air condition~d? It' s on~ of thos~ big units? MR. KUDAN-Y~s, it's c~ntra1 air. MR. TURNER-C~ntra1 air? MR. KUDAN-Y~s. MRS. EGGLESTON-How many b~drooms do you hav~, all total? Just th~ two? MR. KUDAN-W~ hav~ thr~~ b~drooms. MRS. EGGLESTON-You hav~ thr~~? Wh~r~'s th~ oth~r? MR. KUDAN-Th~ third on~, it would be along th~ back side of that, actually, it's betw~en th~ porch and that entranc~ that goes down into th~ basem~nt. It kind of over looks thé patio. MR. KELLEY-Th~ bathroom, th~n, betw~en th~ two bedrooms? MR. KUDAN-That's corr~ct. That's a real small one. My young~st son is kind of gipped ther~, but we're hoping h~ won't notice. 6 "---' MR. KELLEY-I think, I'd 1ik~ to s~~ an alt~rnativ~ plan. MR. TURNER-I would, too. I don't think that's a...My position is, I'd f~~l mor~ comfortabl~ if, mayb~, Chris Ful1~r, th~y cam~ with you and ~xplain~d, you know, if th~y pr~s~nt you anoth~r proposal, th~y com~ with you and ~xplain th~ alt~rnatives, why you can' t hav~ this, why you can't do that, maybe that would help. MR. KUDAN-If that's what you'd like, we'd b~ happy to ask them to come. MR. TURNER-Yes, that would be helpful. MR. BAKER-Excus~ me, Mr. Turner? I'd just like to point out to th~ Board that the dead1in~ for n~w information for next month's agenda was today, so you may extend the deadlin~, in this case, providing time for Staff review and for us to get the information out to th~ Board. MR. TURNER-Two months, that would be enough time to work on it. MRS. GOETZ-Wh~n you come back, it would be h~lpful to have the floor plan ~tched out and everything that we talked about becaus~ we might not remember every sing1~ thing. MR. KELLEY-And also th~ exact dimensions of where the septic is and that rear entrance, so we really know. MR. KUDAN-Okay, thank you. For practical purposes, do I have to re-file or, how do I go about it? MR. TURNER-No, just bring them the additional information. Get it in before the last Wedn~sday of n~xt month. MR. KUDAN-Okay. MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 28-1990 NANCY S. AND PETER L. KDDAN, Introduced by Th~odore Turner who mov~d for its adoption, seconded by Michael Shea: This is tabled with the applicant's approval for to explore other a1t~rnatives with th~ building. and other stairway information, etc. will be shown 2 months to enable the applicant Th~ site dimensions of the steps on the diagram. Duly adopted this 25th day of April, 1990, by the following vot~: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Shea, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz ,Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE AREA VARIANCE NO. 29-1990 TYPE: UNLISTED UB.-10 LAWRENCE R. LARSON OWNER: SAKE AS ABOVE MALLORY AVENUE FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TWO, FOUR FAMILY UNITS; 40,000 SQ. FT. NEEDED FOR ONE UNIT AND TWO UNITS ARE PROPOSED. TAX MAP NO. 117-5-4.1, 4.2 LOT SIZE: 1 ACRE SECTION 4.020-E LAWRENCE LARSON, PRESENT MR. LARSON-I would like to address some of the concerns mentioned in the app lication, in particular, Pag~ 3, r~lative to practical difficulty. There's a list there I would lik~ to address.. did not do it well enough. First question is, how substantial the variance is in relation to the requirement. The requirement is for 10, 000 squar~ feet per family unit and we're asking for 2 family units per 10,000 squar~ fe~t. So, according to the regulation the variation is substantial, but, in relationship to numerous lots in the neighborhood, the density is the same. There are numerous 50 foot lots in this general, West Glens Falls area, occupied either by trail~rs or houses. Second question is the potential effect of incr~ased density on public facilities and servic~s and there is an abundance of available Town water, gas, and electricity. Th~re should be no adverse effect upon the public facilities due to th~ incr~as~d density. All public roads leading to th~ property are adequate for the increased traffic, especially considering the fact that there is no through traffic because all roads lead to a dead end in every direction. Third whether the variance will caus~ substantial change to the character of the neighborhood. The proposed us~ is consistent with zoning for this area. W~ are only asking for increased d~nsity which, for the area, seems reasonable. The only change brought about by the propos~d proj~ct will be an upgrade from the charact~r of 7 '----' th~ n~ighborhood. And Numb~r 4, wh~th~r th~ difficulty can b~ f~asibly mitigat~d by som~ oth~r m~thods. W~ hav~ a1r~ady inv~st~d many thousands of dollars in building two, n~w sing1~ family hom~s, affordab1y pric~d, on th~ adjoining prop~rty. You s~~ th~ pictur~s up th~r~, of thos~ two hous~s and w~ hav~ found that th~ charact~r of th~ n~ighborhood pr~v~nts th~m from s~lling at a r~asonabl~ pric~. On~ has b~~n up for sal~ almost a y~ar. Our original plans for th~ prop~rty was to subdivid~ it for singl~ family hom~s, but w~ hav~ found this to b~ ~conomical1y disastrous. As for building multifamily units in accordanc~ with th~ d~nsity of th~ Zoning Ordinanc~, th~r~ will not b~ an ad~quat~ r~turn on our inv~stm~nt and now, to answ~r th~ qu~stions on th~ application, b~low that. "Is th~r~ an adv~rs~ ~ff~ct on n~ighborhood charact~r?" W~ answ~r~d, no. In addition to what w~ had said on our application, w~' d lik~ to r~mind you of th~ pr~s~nt charact~r of th~ n~ighborhood with which, I'm sur~, you ar~ all familiar and, c~rtain1y, this proj~ct would b~ a gr~at improv~m~nt to that n~ighborhood. I 'm sur~ you all hav~ s~~n th~ two n~w hous~s that w~ hav~ built on th~ adjoining lots and our quality and att~ntion to d~tail is indisputab1~ and w~ int~nd to carry that sam~ r~putation on to this proj~ct and b~yond. Numb~r 2, "Is th~r~ an adv~rs~ ~ff~ct on public faciliti~s?" Th~ answ~r is, no. As w~ addr~ss~d b~for~, in our op~ning r~marks, th~ public faciliti~s ar~ w~ll capabl~ of handling this proj~ct. Third, "Ar~ th~r~ any f~asibl~ alt~rnativ~s?" No. Th~ only alt~rnativ~s allow~d for in th~ zoning hav~ b~~n att~mpt~d by us on th~ adjoining lots and w~ ar~ still trying to s~ll th~s~ affordabl~ hous~s which hav~ b~~n on th~ mark~t for about a y~ar, in fact, w~ ar~ s~riously consid~ring applying for a varianc~ to conv~rt th~ rais~d ranch, on th~ corn~r of Nathan Str~~t and Suns~t Av~nu~, into a two family dw~lling. As W~ said b~for~, building multifamily dw~llings in accordanc~ with th~ zoning d~nsity r~quir~m~nt is ~conomically unf~asibl~ th~r~ and fourth, "Is th~ d~gr~~ of chang~ substantial r~lativ~ to th~ ordinanc~?" W~ said, no. W~ ar~ asking for almost doubl~ th~ d~nsity r~quir~d by th~ ordinanc~, for obvious r~asons. How~v~r, adjoining our prop~rty is a 90 foot strip own~d by Niagra Mohawk, which would s~parat~ us from any oth~r adjoining prop~rty ~xc~pt for th~ two that w~ own. Onc~ again, th~ d~nsity on all th~ n~ighborhood' s 50 foot lots is ~qual to th~ d~nsity w~ ar~ r~qu~sting and "Oth~r Comm~nts" p l~as~, Numb~r 5. w~ would lik~ to r~mind you that many of th~ local n~ighborhood lots hav~ b~~n grant~d a ~ Varianc~ which r~quir~s much mor~ string~nt proof of hardship than do~s our proj~ct. Also, th~r~ ar~ many pr~~xisting, nonconforming us~s in th~ n~ighborhood, including c~rtain busin~ss~s and trail~rs. Our goal in inv~sting in th~ n~ighborhood was to upgrad~ th~ quality of th~ ar~a and oth~r av~nu~s hav~ prov~n fruit1~ss .w~ b~li~v~ th~ only a1t~rnativ~ l~ft is to build som~ nic~, affordabl~ four family units and w~ thank you for your h~lp to do so. MR. CARR-W~ w~r~ just saying that th~ housing that was pr~vious1y built.. .what ar~ th~ pric~s of th~m? MR. LARSON-W~ had op~n hous~s th~r~ almost ~v~ry w~~k, for many months, all through th~ wint~r. All th~ p~opl~ who com~, th~y lik~ th~ hous~. It's quality is tops, but th~ ar~a turns th~m off, imm~diat~ly, ~v~ry tim~ and it's a disast~r and w~ wouldn' t ~v~n think of building n~xt door, th~r~ on th~s~ oth~r lots, anything lik~ that, that w~ f~~l w~ could build som~ v~ry nic~, four family units.. .but th~ r~nt could b~ a littl~ l~ss th~n and W~ could attract, w~ could build up th~ ar~a to mak~ it look b~tt~r and, at th~ sam~ tim~, it would mak~ it possib1~ to hold th~ r~nt a littl~ bit low~r. MR. CARR-You didn't answ~r my qu~stion. What was th~ asking pric~ for thos~ hom~s? MR. LARSON-On thos~ hom~s? It's at 81, but w~ hav~ a 2,000 r~bat~ sO it's 79,900, on th~ ranch to th~ l~ft and th~ oth~r on~ that's just b~ing finish~d, it' s th~ bi-l~v~l, w~'v~ b~~n asking $87,900, but w~ would s~ll it for a fair bit l~ss. MR. CARR-Th~s~ hous~s ar~ unsa1ab1~, at this point in tim~, you know, from what you said. What ar~ your plans for th~m, in th~ futur~? MR. LARSON-W~' r~ going to s~ll th~m. W~ hav~ to s~ll th~m. W~ can' t k~~p th~m much 10ng~r. Th~r~ is, as I hav~ stat~d h~r~, on th~ bi-l~v~l w~ hav~ b~~n giving som~ consid~ration to asking for a varianc~ on this to b~ abl~ to mak~ it a two family. MR. EGGLESTON-W~ll, I gu~ss th~ ordinanc~ says that, varianc~, th~r~ ar~ thr~~ things you hav~ to prov~. circumstanc~s or conditions applying to th~ land. What in ord~r to grant an ar~a On~ is th~r~ ar~ sp~cial is your answ~r to that? MR. LARSON-Sp~cial conditions applying to th~ land? 8 '--' MRS. EGGLESTON-Or circumstanc~s. MR. LARSON-W~ll, at th~ pr~s~nt tim~, th~y ar~ wast~land. r~lativ~ to th~ land? Sp~cia1 conditions MRS. EGGLESTON-Y~s. MR. LARSON-W~ll, it's poor ar~a. Ev~rything around th~ plac~ is mor~ d~ns~ than this is r~quir~d to b~. MRS. GOETZ-But wh~n w~ r~wrot~ th~ ordinanc~, w~ tri~d to inc1ud~ this situation. MR. LARSON-Right. MRS. GOETZ-And so, I don't s~~ why w~ would mak~ it wors~, at this point. MR. LARSON-W~' vê b~~n trying to abid~ by that ordinanc~. W~ mad~ an ~xp~rim~nt, sinc~ you. W~ mad~ a big inv~stm~nt and w~' r~ half und~r b~caus~ of it and w~ hav~n't got anoth~r alt~rnativ~ for th~ us~ of that land. MRS. GOETZ-What about putting four, w~ll, you said you didn't want to..., four singl~ family? MR. LARSON-That would tak~ a varianc~, too b~caus~ th~y ar~ in two lots, at th~ pr~s~nt tim~. MRS. GOETZ-Right. MR. LARSON-W~ f~lt it would b~ hard~r... MRS. GOETZ-It's just too much for on~, for that prop~rty. MR. TURNER-If you say that th~ two hous~s you 'v~ got th~r~ now ar~ not taking off, what mak~s you think th~s~ ar~ going to tak~ off as r~nta1 units, if you claim th~ ar~a do~sn't support it now. MR. LARSON-Th~ r~ntal is a lot ~asi~r than s~lling and at th~ pric~, for th~ four family unit, you can hav~ it a littl~ low~r in pric~, sO you can r~nt it. MRS. GOETZ-How many b~drooms do you hav~ in it? Say th~r~ ar~ four apartm~nts. How many b~drooms do you hav~? MR. LARSON-W~11, w~'r~ r~ally only planning on on~ b~droom and a litt1~ tiny spot that would b~, if som~on~ had a baby, th~y could put it in th~r~. MR. KELLEY-I gu~ss th~ thing I would qu~stion you about, you'v~ got an inv~stm~nt of 2 singl~ family hous~s and if you'r~ troub1~ s~lling th~m now, I qu~stion wh~th~r this is r~ally going to h~lp th~ sal~ of thos~ or hind~r it. If you buy a singl~ family hous~, knowing it has 8 famili~s in th~ back yard, I don't think that's going to aid th~ sa1~ of thos~ hous~s. I think it would hind~r it, mys~lf. MR. LARSON-W~ll, anything that looks n~w around th~r~ would b~ an improv~m~nt. MR. KELLEY-I don't qu~stion that part at all. MR. LARSON-W~'r~ far from that, right now. MR. KELLEY-I just hav~ a littl~ troubl~ with th~ th~ory of that, I gu~ss. MR. LARSON-W~ll, w~ own~d thos~ now, thos~ hous~s. So, if anybody buys it, th~y will und~rstandit, that's why w~'r~ coming h~r~ first, th~y buy it, th~y und~rstand that's what's n~xt door. MR. KELLEY-This pi~c~ of prop~rty that you own, did you originally buy it as 8 50 foot lots or, how did it com~ to you? MR. LARSON-It's in two d~~ds. On~ facing on~ str~~t and on~, anoth~r. W~ thought, at th~ tim~, w~ could divid~ it, subdivid~ it, but, to go through that proc~ss is a long, long proc~ss and w~ hav~ d~cid~d that b~caus~ of this difficulty, pr~s~ntly, that w~ don't think w~ could put anything up th~r~ that w~'d b~ proud of and w~ b~li~v~ w~ could b~ proud of this building. 9 '----' MR. KELLEY-So, you' v~ got it, basically, as on~ 200 foot by 115 foot lot and a 200 by 207 or, kind of th~ layout wh~n you bought it. Thos~ two hous~s that you hav~ th~r~, hav~ th~y actually, on what would b~ cal1~d a doubl~ lot h~r~, as w~ s~~ this map, in oth~r words, it's 100 by 100? MR. LARSON-W~ll, this map that you hav~ was, at on~ tim~, divid~d that way, but it isn't nOw and it took two of thos~ lots to mak~ on~ for on~ of th~ hous~s, that was th~ ranch, and took on~ of th~m to mak~ th~ oth~r, b~caus~ it was alr~ady put tog~th~r. MR. KELLEY-Okay. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED FRANCIS GIROUX, SUPPORT MR. GIROUX-My nam~ is Francis Giroux. I own th~ pi~c~ of prop~rty around th~ corn~r. It's on th~ corn~r of F~ld and Columbia. I'v~ b~~n consid~ring building a hous~ on that prop~rty and I'v~ h~sitat~d b~caus~ th~s~ two hous~s hav~n't sold. If I do build a hous~ on that prop~rty, it will b~ for r~ntal,..and I would w~lcom~ a coupl~ of four famili~s on that prop~rty. I think it would improv~ th~ ar~a. ANDREW TELLEUR, SUPPORT MR. TELLEUR-My nam~ is Andr~w T~ll~ur. I'v~ b~~n living in Qu~~nsbury sinc~ 1975 and I appr~ciat~ th~ hous~s. I appr~ciat~ what is trying to b~ don~ ov~r in that n~ighborhood. I just want to point out that most of th~ lots in that ar~a ar~ th~.. .lots which hav~ trai1~rs and what not on th~m, ar~ only 45 f~~t wid~, not 50, so itls a litt1~ bit wors~ than that r~a11y, sO th~y'r~ 45 f~~t wid~. This, I think, would b~ a gr~at improv~m~nt. MRS. GOETZ-What is your conn~ction to this application? n~ighborhood? Do liv~ in th~ MR. TELLEUR-No, I don't liv~ in th~ n~ighborhood. HENRY KNOBLOCK, OPPOSED MR. KNOBLOCK-Y~s, my nam~ is H~nry Knoblock and I 1iv~ right across from th~ oppos~d lot and my lot is 100 by 18 by 100 by 14. Also, in th~ last paragraph in my d~~d it stat~s that I shall hav~ qui~tn~ss whi1~ I am at that r~sid~nc~ and that's in my d~~d and if his hous~s ar~n' t s~lling ov~r h~r~, why do~sn' t h~ try r~nting th~m? I would b~ oppos~d b~caus~ h~ wants to build such a larg~ p1ac~ th~r~. If h~ can' t s~ll th~m, h~ might try r~nting th~m first b~for~ h~ tri~s building mor~. That would financially b~n~fit him, I f~~l and plus, I liv~ on a d~ad ~nd road and I don't know wh~r~ th~ propos~d driv~ways ar~ suppos~d to b~ or anything. I hav~n' t s~~n th~ map or anything lik~ that. I don't know wh~r~ his ~xi t and ~ntri~s ar~ going to b~. MRS. GOETZ-Wh~r~ w~r~ you again(r~f~rring to map)? MR. KNOBLOCK-I'm at th~ ~nd of, actually, my lot's Suns~t, 148 and 149 ar~ my lots, so I 'm dir~ctly across from th~m, I do b~li~v~. Th~ n~ighborhood is now qui~t and your proposing two, four family units which is 8 famili~s, sO if both famili~s hav~ 2.3 childr~n, you'r~ talking a minimum of 20 chi1dr~n. Now, I alr~ady hav~ vandalism in th~ n~ighborhood. So, an additional 20 childr~n. How much mor~ vandalism am I gon~ hav~ and most of th~s~ t~nants may b~ on w~lfar~ so if I hav~ to su~ a t~nant, who am I r~ally going to su~ and is a bond going to b~ post~d for th~s~ t~nants that, if th~y caus~ damag~ to th~ n~ighborhood, who knows? PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE L~tter from Rog~r Whiting/Pam~la Whiting We hav~ an obj~ction to th~ proposal of Lawr~nce Larson for the construction of two, four family units on Mallory and Sunset Av~nues. The neighborhood is ~ss~ntially singl~ family homes. I would rather s~~ a proposal. for four singl~ family homes or two dupl~x~s that could b~ owner occupied, something that would b~ considered to b~ affordable. Most of the surrounding lots are 10,000 squar~ f~~t with on~ dw~lling. What he propos~s is to hav~ on~ unit p~r 5,000 square fe~t which is doubling th~ density. It will change the charact~r of th~ n~ighborhood. 10 '--' ---./ Letter from David Comstock, 24 Sunset Avenue I am writing this letter in reference to the proposed development of property bordered by Sunset Avenue and Mallory Avenue. It is my understanding that an 8 building apartment complex is planned. I would like to go on record as opposed to any such project. I feel that a multi-dwelling complex would conflict greatly with a new single family dwelling neighborhood. STAFF INPUT Notes from John S. Goralski, Planner (attached) MR. CARR-Mr. Larson, Henry just brought up a point about, you know, have you tried to rent these homes maybe to generate some cash flow? Is that an option. MR. LARSON-No, it's not an option. MR. CARR-Why not? MR. LARSON-Because I have to keep going on with what I'm doing in business and I need the cash flow. I just can't leave it tied up. I've got temporary financing only. MR. CARR-So it's not convertible to permanent financing of some sort, a mortgage or something of that nature? MR. LARSON-You couldn't get the rent that your payment would be, in short. MR. KNOBLOCK-Excuse me, but neither can I at where I am at but, I am. .willing to take a loss. MR. LARSON-I might ask a question, I wonder, I don't know exactly where he lives, but I wonder if his is vacant land or if he has a house on it or trailer on it, if it's a variance, already, that he's privileged to have and he doesn't want me to have? Can I have those questions answered, please? MR. KNOBLOCK-Yes, I have a trailer on my lot. It's a double lot much like what he proposes to put one four family unit on. I would never consider doing that because, for one, when you have your septic and everything else, if you have one septic for each unit, that's quite a few septic tanks you're going to be spreading around there and there's still people on wells, you know, with all that septic, you're going to have problems with the area wells. Furthermore, my payment is $460 some odd dollars. I can't rent that trailer. I have to live in the trailer and I have to rent out a room and I am only able to rent the room for $250 dollars, that's a loss, sir. MR. LARSON-And did you get a variance? MR. CARR-I think we're getting out of MR. KNOBLOCK-That has nothing to do with it. How close do you live to this land? MR. LARSON-I live in Hudson Falls. MR. KNOBLOCK-Would you be willing to live in the apartments while you're renting them? MR. LARSON-If I needed to and was retired, yes. MR. KNOBLOCK-Well, then why don't build them in Hudson Falls, next to your house? MR. LARSON-We have a set up, just like this, in Hudson Falls. MR. TURNER-Your missing the point, gentlemen. MR. KNOBLOCK-Yes, but is there questions as far as my lot? MR. EGGLESTON-No. MR. LARSON-He didn't answer it. Does he have a variance, is what I want to know. MR. CARR-That would be something for the Building Department to determine, I mean, we don't have MR. KNOBLOCK-I believe I do. It was in the deed when I bought the land. 11 '-- MR. TURNER-I think h~ did. Mr. Larson, I think that's corr~ct. MR. KNOBLOCK-I'm not a lawy~r. I don't r~a1ly know. MRS. EGGLESTON-I don't s~~ how, Mr. Larson, that has a b~aring on your situation, r~al1y. You hav~n't d~monstrat~d a practical difficulty or shown that you couldn't mak~ a good r~turn by building on that prop~rty, what is al10wabl~ und~r th~ ordinanc~. You could build two dup1~x~s or four singl~ family hom~s and I agr~~ with J~ff. I think by putting that many apartm~nt buildings in th~ back yard of th~s~ two hom~s that you hav~, if you hav~ a hard tim~ s~lling th~m now, it's going to b~ twic~ as bad. I can't und~rstand your r~asoning. It's just too much for that, and I und~rstand mon~y, but mon~y isn't ~v~rything. Th~r~'s just not ~nough room th~r~ for what you want to do. (TAPE TURNED) MR. KELLEY-I gu~ss, two qu~stions. Th~ two lots, wh~r~ you'r~ proposing the two, four families, do you actually own thos~ now? MR. LARSON-Yes. MR. KELLEY-Th~y're not under contract or anything, you actually own them? MR. LARSON-Th~y'r~ deed~d, fully, to m~. MR. KELLEY-And how long ago did you purchas~ this prop~rty? MR. LARSON-About a y~ar. MR. KELLEY-Did you every think about s~lling them as four single family lots or you had this plan in th~ back of your mind to do something on your own? MR. LARSON-Th~y'd have to be subdivid~d..subdivision...mak~ them into sing1~ family houses becaus~ th~r~' s two lots on on~ side, that connect~d tog~th~r in one de~d and the same thing on the oth~r sid~, on th~ oth~r street. MRS. EGGLESTON-Do you hav~ a mor~ d~finit~ tim~ of wh~n you purchas~d those lots and prop~rty? MR. LARSON-Roughly, a y~ar ago, May, I can't tell you exactly. MR. KELLEY-Pat, is that all involved to subdivid~ that in som~thing... that's not like starting out with 50 acres. MRS. COLLARD-No, it's 10,000 squar~ f~~t zoning. He could subdivide that. MR. KELLEY-Y~s, but h~' s saying that it's an invo1v~d proc~ss and my question is I don't know MRS. COLLARD-What I think is not involv~d, he may think is involv~d, though, you know, it's a differ~nc~. MR. KELLEY-Alright, could you explain to me what would b~ involved in subdividing that into four MRS. COLLARD-W~l1, he would have to hav~ the prop~rty surv~y~d and go through the Planning Board subdivision proc~ss, Preliminary and Final application application. MR. BAKER-H~ would hav~ to go through that for each of th~ lots. So, it would be two separat~ subdivision applications. MR. KELLEY-But it could be don~? MRS. COLLARD-Y~s. MR. KELLEY-I mean, kind of go through together, in a sens~. MR. BAKER-Right, they could be done within the same time frame. W~'re looking ata minimum of a two month process, possibly a month long~r with any ~ngin~ering concerns. MRS. COLLARD-It could b~ subdivid~d. 12 "--- MOTION TO DENY AREA VARIANCE NO. 29-1990 LAWRENCE R. LARSON, Introduc~d by Susan Go~tz who mov~d for its adoption, s~cond~d by Joyc~ Eggl~ston: Th~r~' s no sp~cia1 circumstanc~s app lying to this prop~rty and not app lying to oth~r prop~rti~s in th~ n~ighborhood. Strict application of th~ Ordinanc~ with its dim~nsional r~quir~m~nts would not r~sult in a sp~cifi~d practical difficulty to th~ applicant. Th~ varianc~ would b~ d~trim~nta1 to th~ purpos~ of th~ Ordinanc~ and th~ n~ighborhood. Th~r~ ar~ oth~r a1t~rnativ~s which ar~ outlin~d in th~ p~rmitt~d us~s in that zon~. Duly adopt~d this 25th day of April, 1990, by th~ following vot~: AYES: Mr. K~ll~y, Mr. Sh~a, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Go~tz, Mrs. Egg1~ston, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turn~r NOES: NONE AREA VARIANCE NO. 30-1990 TYPE II LI-lA MIKE BAIRD OWNER: LORETTA BAIRD CORINTH ROAD, 1 MILE WEST OF EXIT 18 LOCATED BETWEEN WEST MT. DELI AND GARY BALLCOUNTERTOPS FOR A 30 FT. BY 60 FT. ADDITION ONTO EXISTING BUILDING/BUSINESS. REQUESTING RELIEF FROM SIDE YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENT. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 126-1-35 LOT SIZE: l.34 ACRES SECTION 4.020 MIKE BAIRD, PRESENT MR. BAIRD-My nam~ is Mik~ Baird, 435 Corinth Road. I'd lik~ to add just, basically, on~ thing and 8~~ if you hav~ any qu~stions. I did tak~ th~ tim~ to go around to th~ imm~diat~ r~sid~nts who will ~ith~r s~~ th~ n~w building or b~, possibly, conc~rned with it and I hav~ a p~tition. MR. TURNER-With th~y'r~ nam~s on it? MR. BAIRD-Signed by ~ach and every on~ of th~m. Th~s~ ar~ th~ originals. I hav~ copies of everyone. MR. CARR-Mr. Baird, you liv~ in th~ single family dw~lling? MR. BAIRD-Yes, sir. MR. CARR-How long has th~ sign shop b~~n th~r~? MR. BAIRD- I' v~ had, that sign shop' s b~~n th~r~ for, probably, almost 9 years, now. MR. TURNER-Th~ sign shop that you had, you mov~d out of it and w~nt down to North Country Signs. MR. BAIRD-That's right. MR. TURNER-Now, you'r~ s~parat~d from th~m, you'r~ back? MR. BAIRD-Absolutely. MR. TURNER-Okay, and how long was that..for? MR. BAIRD-When that happ~n~d? MR. TURNER-Originally, y~s? MR. BAIRD-Oh, probably, a y~ar and a half ago. MR. TURNER-Eight~~n months? MR. BAIRD-Yes, it was ov~r that. MR. TURNER-Ov~r ~ight~~n months? MR. BAIRD-Y~s, and besid~s th~ fact, I und~rstand exactly what you're getting at and I can make it v~ry simpl~ for you. In th~ m~antime, sinc~ w~ 've mov~d, as you know, in moving, w~ always hav~, w~ us~ that building as an ann~x for sign mat~rials, as w~...back and forth, right up until th~ tim~, as on~ point. As for anoth~r point, I do hav~ a l~gal p~rmit for my sign and, as far as ~v~rybody's conc~rned 13 '----" ~/ MR. TURNER-You n~v~rc10s~d th~ busin~ss out of that building, is that what you'r~ saying? MR. BAIRD-W~11, I m~an, th~ busin~ss got mov~d, but w~ us~d it for an ann~x. MR. TURNER-Y~s, but you n~v~r c10s~d it. MR. BAIRD-I m~an I n~v~r c10s~d it, no. I always had a busin~ss th~r~. MR. TURNER-That's what I m~ant. MR. BAIRD-I did work th~r~. MR. TURNER-I know you had signs th~r~. MR. BAIRD-Y~s. MR. TURNER-I know you had your truck th~r~. MR. BAIRD-I still hav~ th~m th~r~. I don't think I'v~ ~v~r not had signs th~r~. MR. SHEA-Mr. Baird, hav~ you giv~n any consid~ration to asking for l~ss minimum r~li~f and making th~ building, what you'r~ proposing, 30 f~~t wid~ and som~thing l~ss than that? MR. BAIRD-Giv~ m~ an ~xamp1~. I'm not sur~ what you m~an. MR. SHEA-Th~ propos~d building is 30 f~et wid~, which th~n would ~xt~nd from th~ w~st~r1y sid~ of your ~xisting sign shop, corr~ct? MR. BAIRD-Y~s. MR. SHEA-And it is for that r~ason that you' r~ asking for th~ 13 foot s~tback, corr~ct? MR. BAIRD-W~ll, as you can s~~, if you und~rstand on th~ plot plan th~r~, th~ ~xisting building, which is my full d~v~lop~d building, right now, is 13 f~~t. All I propos~ to do is not to go c1os~r to it, but just to ~xt~nd in which th~ v~ry important n~ighbor, Roy Ball, n~xt to m~, I talk to ~v~ry day, has abso1ut~ly no prob1~m with that, whatso~v~r. As a matt~r of fact it's nic~. It's not right n~xt to his f~nc~. It's not ov~r into his prop~rty. W~ hav~...f~~t as a kind of buff~r. This is abso1ut~ly th~ only r~ason I'm asking for th~ r~li~f. If I did not hav~ th~ original building th~r~, at all, abso1ut~ly, I would, 1ik~, throw it in th~ midd1~ of th~ prop~rty. I'd hav~ my 30/30. S~~, th~ oth~r sid~'s no prob1~m, but I do not want to d~tach th~ n~w building. I hav~ an ongoing busin~ss and, you know, it's just th~r~. Th~ lot is flat. Th~r~'s no drainag~ prob1~m. Towards th~ back, ~v~rything, you know, I 'v~ gon~ through a lot of hom~work to p~rf~ct this and b~sid~s th~ fact, if w~ mov~d th~ n~w, ~xisting shop and jog it ov~r, or what~v~r, you would not b~ ab1~ to fit a fir~ truck b~tw~~n th~ two buildings and which, right now, you can fit two and a half fir~ trucks through, if th~r~ w~r~ any prob1~m. Which is a v~ry important point, I think. MR. SHEA-Although th~y don't normally go in sid~ by sid~. MR. BAIRD-Right. Just th~ point of th~ width of th~ driv~way that would go b~tw~~n th~ r~sid~nt and th~ busin~ss. MR. SICARD-I think it' s n~~d~d up in that ar~a and without th~ ~xpansion, it's probably such a small busin~ss, am I gu~ssing, right or wrong that it MR. BAIRD-W~'r~.., now in th~ back yard and th~ front yard. As I und~rstand it, if 11m not mistak~n, p1~as~ advis~ m~ oth~rwis~, you know, I am practicing law h~r~, as you mayb~ awar~ of, I would 1ik~ to know th~ r~ason I'm h~r~ is primarily b~caus~ of my n~ighbor who I am asking r~li~f from. This is why I 'm h~r~ for th~ varianc~ of 13 f~~t which h~ has tr~m~ndous w~ight in, a trßm~ndous b~aring w~ight which I do hav~ his condo1~nc~ and his signaturß. H~' s not th~ typ~ of pßrson that wants to com~ up and.. MR. TURNER-Th~ ordinanc~ says you'v~ got to hav~ 30 f~~t hßr~, r~gard1~ss of wh~th~r your n~ighbor's th~r~ or not. MR. BAIRD-Exactly, but that's th~ r~ason w~ hav~ a varianc~. 14 "---" -----" MR. TURNER-That's, basically, why you're here? MR. BAIRD-Right. Exactly. MR. SICARD-Do you build large signs? What size signs do you build? MR. BAIRD-What's a large sign? MR. SICARD-Large, advertisement signs? MR. BAIRD-Right now, as you know, the max square foot is a 5 by 10, fifty square feet, that's a 5 by 10 feet sign, which is only so wide. MR. SICARD-Have you built larger signs than that, too? MR. BAIRD-Not for Queensbury, I did Iron Clad, 20 feet tall by 30 feet long, I've done the tower Iron Clad...my largest, yes. MR. SICARD-I'm assuming you don't only build signs for Queensbury. MR. BAIRD-Oh, absolutely not. We'll go into Albany, if need be. MR. SICARD-So, you're probably building larger signs. MR. BAIRD-Yes, but we can only do, when you get into brge signs, you need to make them fit out the door. There's a lot of sign sections, which would be equivalent to a lot of small signs. MR. SICARD-I'm trying to determine whether the need for a large building is necessary. MR. BAIRD-Well, just watch my truck pullout with these things strapped to them. I mean, I have to wiggle these things around. We took a chain saw to my door, five years ago, to make a sign fit out because one of my guys told me it would fit and it would not fit out the door and we needed to cut it, not to be funny or anything, but we are really hurting for room. I mean, I have a secretary and another guy that works with me and we're like, cutting, in the winter, we have to cut inside where the computer is and the whole thing. It's really uncomfortable and I really would like to step out on a limb and say that, I have started since last August to, first, change from Residential to Light Industrial, you know, practically, me and a few people, by ourselves and I did spend seven months to do that and it did change, with the intent, all the while, on every agenda, on the tape, that it was for the intent, for me, Mike Baird, to build an addition on my sign shop. Everything has been with the full intent of that reason. I, personally, see no problem. I've asked and p leaded with everybody, if there is, tell me. I know what's needed for a...such as this, I feel I have done my homework. MR. KELLEY-Question for you, Mike. How far is Roy's house from the property line? MR. BAIRD-From the property line or my building? MR. KELLEY-The property line. MR. BAIRD-His house, he has a garage that's closer. MR. KELLEY-Well, the closest part of anyone of his buildings to MR. BAIRD-His building is too close to the property line. His building may be 10 or 11 feet, that's his garage. His actual house that he lives in with bedrooms, that's probably 30 feet. MRS. GOETZ-What was the zoning. MR. TURNER-That was residential, although, the first time around? MRS. GOETZ-Yes. MR. BAIRD-Commercial. MR. TURNER-No, back in '82. I think it was SR-20. MRS. GOETZ-...Light Industrial..setbacks were larger? MR. TURNER-It went from SR-20 to Residential and they petition the Town Board to have it changed to Light Industrial. 15 "--" MR. BAIRD-Excuse me. It was not SR-20, not my property, not ever. MR. TURNER-Not ever, what was it, Highway Commercial? MR. BAIRD-It was Highway Commercial. It got changed in '88. MR. TURNER-It got changed, right. It only went back, what, 300 feet? MR. BAIRD-Yes sir. No, that is incorrect, also. It was back 300 feet on the southerly side of Corinth Road. It was to .the full extent, to the full depth of my side of the road, being the northerly side, which go back, like in Roy Ball's case, maybe 5 or 600 feet only on the south side of the street, only. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED PAUL H. NAYLOR, SUPPORT MR. NAYLOR-Mr. Chairman and members of the Board, Paul H. Naylor. I reside on the south side of Corinth Road, property owner. I've got no problem with Mike and his new addition. MR. TURNER-How close are you to him? MR. NAYLOR-Just across the street. MR. TURNER-Just across the street? MR. NAYLOR-Yes, on the south side. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE Warren County Planning Board approved STAFF INPUT Notes from Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner (attached) MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 30-1990 HIKE BAIRD, Introduced by Jeffrey Kelley who moved for its adoption, seconded by Charles Sicard: The applicant is asking for an area variance on the west side of his property. The existing building is 13 feet from the west property line. The Ordinance calls for 30 foot side setbacks and they are looking for a 17 foot relief. The practical difficulty is that the total width of the property is 120 feet. With 30 foot side setbacks on both sides, this only leaves 60 feet usable for the width area. We must take into consideration that there is also an existing dwelling on the property. If he were to attach the proposed building to the existing building and maintain a 30 foot side setback, it would create an ungainly floor plan and tend to crowd the space between the single family dwelling and the new building. By granting him this area variance, it will leave approximately 32 feet between the buildings. This is a good idea, providing for future access to the rear of the building, such as the septic system. In the Light Industrial, 1 acre zone, there could be more future growth. This would provide adequate access to the remainder of the property. This would not be detrimental to the purpose of the Ordinance. There's no adverse effect on public facilities or services and with the petition submitted, there is no neighborhood opposition. Duly adopted this 25th day of April, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Shea, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE AREA VARIANCE NO. 31-1990 TYPE: UNLISTED MB.-5 BRIAN AND JEAN MOONEY OWNER: SAKE AS ABOVE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF INDIANA AND CENTRAL AVENUES FOR THE INSTALLATION OF A 14 FT. BY 32 FT. INGROUND POOL TO REPLACE THE ABOVE GROUND POOL IN THE FRONT YARD. ORDINANCE ALLOWS POOLS IN REAR YARD ONLY. TAX MAP NO. 127-9-1 LOT SIZE: 90 FT. BY 100 FT. SECTION 7.074 (4B) JEAN MOONEY, PRESENT 16 -- MR. TURNER-Can you ~xp1ain th~ situation you'v~ got th~r~, in a litt1~ mOr~ d~tail, mayb~. MRS. MOONEY-Unfortunat~ly, wh~r~ th~ garag~ is situat~d. It's not actually corr~ct on this plot plan. Th~ d~~p~st part of th~ pool, th~ 8 foot ~nd, would b~ b~hind th~ garag~. MR. TURNER-Th~ r~ar of th~ lot, right? MRS. MOONEY-Th~ pool would b~gin at th~ r~ar of our hous~ and com~ up and would b~ b~hind th~ garag~. Th~ 4 foot ~nd would com~ up th~ sid~ of th~ garag~, about 5 f~H. MR. TURNER-Fiv~ f~~t into th~ garag~? MRS. MOONEY-Up towards th~ front of th~ lot. Non~ of us can r~m~mb~r ~xact1y wh~n my fath~r built that garag~. I think, and so do~s my moth~r, that th~ footing is 3 and a half to 4 f~~t. w~ hav~.. thos~ big bould~r things.. fil1~d th~m with concr~t~ b~for~ h~ built that. Th~ pool that w~'r~ purchasing has th~ st~~l guss~ts on th~ sid~ that ar~ s~t in concr~t~ on th~ bottom and w~ sp~nt a lot of tim~ looking at pools b~caus~ it is so c10s~ to our foundation and I'm not throwing anybody und~r th~ bus h~r~, but. th~ p lac~ that w~' r~ buying th~ pool from has th~ v~ry sam~ pool, in th~ir showroom, with th~ ~xact amount of footag~ that w~ hav~ and that's insid~ a building. MR. TURNER-Okay and th~ st~ps, I think you indicat~d th~y'r~ going to b~ chang~d and you'r~ going to hav~ st~ps going both ways. MRS. MOONEY-W~ hav~ ord~r~d concr~t~ st~p s. Th~y' r~ not, w~ had to ord~r th~m b~caus~ th~y' r~ not th~ standard siz~. W~ didn't want gr~at big stairs. That's only a mud room ~ntranc~ wh~r~ my wash~r and dry~r is. Th~ stair's will com~ up from ~ith~r sid~. You won't b~ coming out, lik~ dropping MR. TURNER-Y~s, not th~ on~'s that you'v~ got th~r~ now. MRS. MOONEY-Right, thos~ ar~ t~mporary. MRS. GOETZ-What is th~ furth~st s~tback, 4 f~~t? MRS. MOONEY-It go~s hom, th~ hous~ fits on an angl~ on th~ lot. from 4 f~~t to 5 and a quart~r, I think it is. It would go MRS. GOETZ-Th~ r~quir~m~nt? MR. TURNER-Th~y front two str~~ts. Th~y front Indiana Av~nu~ and C~ntra1 Av~nu~. MRS. GOETZ-Right, is th~r~ any r~quir~m~nt b~tw~~n a hous~ and a pool? MR. TURNER-10 f~~t. MRS. GOETZ-And so, it's two varianc~s that w~'r~ addr~ssing, nOw. It s~~ms 1ik~ w~ had a varianc~ on that n~xt door prop~rty. It s~~ms lik~ you l~t ~ach oth~r us~ ~ach oth~r's pool? MRS. MOONEY-W~ all us~d, wh~r~ my hous~ sits now, was my moth~r's prop~rty and th~r~ was a 16 by 32 abov~ ground pool th~r~ and w~ all, th~ ~ntir~ n~ighborhood. MRS. GOETZ-That's what I thought I r~m~mb~r~d, wh~n Mr. Smi th want~d his pool, h~ said that oth~r lady l~t th~m us~ th~ir pool. MRS. MOONEY-Th~ ~ntir~ n~ighborhood us~d th~ pool on my moth~r' s prop~rty for y~ars. MR. TURNER-But w~ mad~ th~m put a f~nc~ up th~r~. MRS. GOETZ-Now, what about, you hav~ to hav~ a f~nc~ around this, right? MRS. MOONEY-Y~s, w~ do. MRS. GOETZ-So, your going to bring this ov~r to that stockad~ f~nc~? 17 --- '---.-' MRS. MOONEY-W~ would probably run, not stockad~, but chain link, along Mr. Smith's stockad~ f~nc~ and from his stockad~ ov~r to th~ corn~r of my hous~ and from th~ corn~r to th~ back of my moth~r's garag~ and th~n across th~ front. You can s~~ th~ littl~ dots on th~ plot plan ar~, lik~, wh~r~ my f~nc~ would b~. MRS. GOETZ-Y~s, I s~~ it. MR. KELLEY-So, your moth~r's garag~ is actually..th~ lot lin~? MRS. MOONEY-Y~s. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED PETER SMITH MR. SMITH-My nam~ is P~t~r Smith. I 1iv~ right b~hind h~r. I hav~ no obj~ction to th~ plans. MARLENE POTVIN MRS. POTVIN-I'm Marl~n~ Potvin and I approv~ of it and...my daught~r, I lov~ th~m both. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE STAFF INPUT Not~s from John S. Goralski, P1ann~r (attach~d) MR. TURNER-Th~y'v~ got 10 f~~t on th~... That was a misprint. It was adv~rtis~d wrong. MR. BAKER-Originally, th~ ag~nda listing was incorr~ct. corr~ct1y, how~v~r. It was adv~rtis~d MR. TURNER-Was it? MR. BAKER-Y~s, it was. MR. TURNER-I thought you told m~ it was adv~rtis~d wrong. Th~y'r~ showing concr~t~ from th~ r~ar to th~ hous~ and th~ pool's b~yond that, or it looks it. Th~ pool looks 1ik~ it might 1in~ right up with th~ back of th~ hous~. Would that b~ corr~ct, th~ pool would 1in~ up with th~ back of th~ hous~? MRS. MOONEY-Y~s. It's 10 foot from th~ prop~rty lin~. MR. BAKER-10 foot from th~ prop~rty lin~ or from th~ hous~? MR. TURNER-From th~ hous~ to th~ prop~rty 1in~. Th~ pool would b~ 10 foot from th~ir prop~rty lin~ to th~ ~dg~ of th~ pool. MR. BAKER-Okay. MRS. GOETZ-How much is going to b~ b~tw~~n th~ hous~ and th~ pool? Back 5 and a. . . MR. TURNER-Th~n th~y'v~ got to hav~ r~li~f th~r~ and th~r~. MRS. GOETZ-What's th~ r~li~f, 6 f~~t? MR. TURNER-Th~y'v~ got 5 f~~t th~r~ and...th~y hav~ 6 f~~t... MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 31-1990 BRIAN AND JEAN MOONEY, Introduc~d by Joyc~ Eggl~ston who mov~d for its adoption, s~cond~d by Th~odor~ Turn~r: Th~r~ ar~ sp~cia1 condit ions app lying to this lot. This is a corn~r lot. It would b~ impossibl~ to p1ac~ a pool on th~ lot without coming into conflict with th~ Ordinanc~. This will allow r~li~f of 6 f~~t from b~tw~~n th~ r~ar of th~ hous~ and th~ propos~d pool. It will b~ a 16 foot r~1i~f b~tw~~n th~ pool and th~ r~ar prop~rty lin~. This is th~ minimum r~li~f n~c~ssary to all~viat~ a practical 18 "--' '--'" difficulty. Th~r~' s no n~ighborhood opposition. No adv~rs~ ~ff~ct on s~rvic~s or n~ighborhood charact~r. Th~ approval is conting~nt upon th~ applicant placing th~ prop~r railing on th~ propos~d st~ps to th~ r~ar of th~ hous~ to th~ landing. Wh~n th~ pool is insp~ct~d, w~ would lik~ th~ back st~p s tob~ r~vi~w~d at that tim~. Duly adopt~d this 25th day of April, 1990, by th~ following vot~: AYES: Mr. K~ll~y, Mr. Sh~a, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Go~tz, Mrs. Egg1~ston, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turn~r NOES: NONE MRS. COLLARD-Mr. Chairman, th~ r~ar prop~rty lin~ s~tback r~quir~m~nt is 20 f~~t, so sh~'ll n~~d r~li~f of 16 f~~t. MR. TURNER-Pat, qUMtion. r~ar 10 f~~t. Turn to Pag~ 43 in th~ Zoning Ordinanc~, MR- 5, says MRS. COLLARD-R~ar for princip1~ structur~ and you'r~ talking just th~ pool r~quir~m~nt s~tback is 20 f~~t. Th~ pool is an acc~ssory structur~ and in th~ Pool Ordinanc~ on Pag~ 89 it r~quir~s 20 f~~t from th~ r~ar lin~. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. KELLEY-T~d, b~for~ you finish that, can I is, th~ back door out of that hous~ that w~'r~ and having th~ st~ps go down, l~ft and right. that b~ don~ in such a way that it has railings hav~ a comm~nt? I gu~ss my conc~rn talking about, making lik~ a landing Can w~ put som~thing in th~r~ that and so forth. MRS. MOONEY-It com~s with it. It's got th~ pol~s in it for th~ wrought iron railing to com~ up out of it. MR. KELLEY-I'm just thinking of som~ littl~ kid or som~thing com~s flying out that back door and fall in th~ pool. MRS. EGGLESTON-J~ff, do you want that in th~ motion. Do you think w~ n~~d that in th~ motion? MR. KELLEY-W~ll, I' d lik~ to s~~ it, just for our prot~ction, that w~' r~ kind of trying to look out for th~ saf~ty. I m~an, th~y say th~y' r~ going to do it, but I think addr~ss som~thing about that, if you want to do it. USE VARIANCE NO. 32-1990 TYPE: UNLISTED CR-15 U-HAUL CO. OF N.E. NEW YORK, INC. OWNER: SAKE AS ABOVE 112 MAIN STREET FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A METAL BUILDING TO CONTAIN SELF-STORAGE UNITS. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 135-1-4 LOT SIZE: 2.43 ACRES SECTION 4.020-1 JAMES TOWNE, KINGSLEY AND TOWNE, AGENT FOR APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. TOWNE-Good ~v~ning. and St~v~ F~rris who's qu~stions you might hav~. My nam~ is Ja.m~s Town~ from Kings1~y and Town~, in Albany th~ Assistant to th~ Pr~sid~nt, is h~r~ to answ~r any MR. TURNER-Do you hav~ any furth~r comm~nts to mak~, in r~lation th~ application? MR. TOWNE-I don't know if you'd 1ik~ to addr~ss th~ not~s on fil~ from th~ Planning D~partm~nt now, or wh~th~r or not you'd lik~ to r~vi~w that with m~ at... MR. TURNER-W~'ll tak~ it.. MR. TOWNE-Numb~r On~, th~ applicant should prov~ to th~ Board that th~ prop~rty in qu~stion is uniqu~ to th~ zon~ as p~r S~ction 10 (B) (1) of th~ Ordinanc~. I think w~ hav~, in our application, shown th~ uniqu~n~ss of this prop~rty. It is an old gas station that U-Haul's b~~n using for a numb~r of y~ars for th~ r~ntal- MR. TURNER-How long, Mr. Town~, how long hav~ th~y b~~n th~r~? MR. TOWNE-Sinc~ 1978. Th~ particular portion of th~ parc~l that w~' r~ s~~king to d~v~lop is in back, off th~ str~~t. Th~ frontag~ on th~ main str~~t is only 150 f~~t. Th~ oth~r a110wabl~ us~s in that zon~, oth~r than a r~sid~ntia1 us~, is, I think you'll all agr~~, is cl~arly, out of thè qu~stion. An offic~ building, 19 "---' --' frat~rna1 organization, hospital, nursing hom~, day car~ c~nt~r, r~staurant, banking facility, gasoline station,....hot~l, mot~l, motor lodge, r~tail busin~ss, or v~terinary clinic. None of thos~ ar~ going to b~ abl~ to b~ commercially d~v~lop~d on that sit~ with that typ~ of frontag~ on th~ road. In addition, w~ hav~ a problem, in that, w~ have not shown a profit in th~ 8 y~ars that are attach~d, financial stat~m~nts attach~d to th~ p~tition, ther~'s be~n a n~t loss of $45,000 or almost $7,000 a year. U-Hau1 cannot continu~ to op~rate this facility at that location if thos~ typ~s of losses continu~ to accru~. This particular propos~d us~ is an adjunct to th~ curr~nt business on th~ prop~rty. w~ fe~l it would b~ th~ l~ast d~trimental, th~ l~ast int~ns~ activity w~ can conduct at the facility. U-Haul studi~s around th~ country show that in a facility this siz~, we can ~xp~ct s~v~n visits p~r day to th~s~ various storag~ sheds, by peopl~ coming in and moving goods, r~p lacing goods on th~ pr~mis~s. Of thos~ s~v~n, approximat~ly 3.5 or half of th~m ar~ for p~op1~ who ar~ visiting th~ sit~ anyway rath~r than drop off a trai1~r or to pick up a trai1~r. So, you'r~ looking at an increase of usag~ of about 3 and a half visits p~r day which is certainly, is about th~ minimal that you can imagin~, but th~ oth~r propos~d or th~ oth~r possibl~ us~s in th~ CR zon~ for this particular prop~rty, I don't think th~r~'s anything on that list that would hav~ th~ low int~nsity that this propos~d facility would. Any qu~stions on that it~m? MR. CARR-Mr. Town~, on this profit and loss stat~m~nt h~r~, what is a commission paid out? STEVE FERRIS MR. FERRIS-Steve Ferris, Assistant to th~ Pr~sid~nt of U-Haul Co. of North~ast~rn N~w York. The commissions paid out ar~, w~ ar~ a sub ~ntity of a major corporation and, as a part of that corporation w~ ow~ r~nts and other f~~s to the organization. Th~y put it down as commissions. Diff~r~nt f~~s that we..part of our tax stat~m~nts... profit and loss. MR. CARR-Who owns th~ location? Is it U-Haul? MR. FERRIS-U-Haul, North~ast~rn N~w York. MR. CARR-Who..th~ commissions, U-Hau1, N~w York or? MR. FERRIS-No, U-Haul, Int~rnational. MR. TOWNE-Int~rnationa1... MR. FERRIS-It's an allocation of GNA ~xp~ns~s for th~ par~nt corporation. MR. TOWNE-That's correct. MR. CARR-B~cause th~y s~~m to b~ taking quit~ a bit of your incom~. MR. TOWNE-Thos~ are how th~y'r~ d~t~rmin~d. MR. FERRIS-W~ll , th~y'r~ using that to pay for th~ tax~s. MR. TOWNE-How do they arriv~ at th~ figur~s ? Do you know? MR. FERRIS-I can find that out for you, if you want. MR. SICARD-Ar~ you locat~d right across from th~ c~m~t~ry or abov~ or b~low that? MR. FERRIS-Across, dir~ct1y across from us, th~r~'s no ingr~ss or ~gr~ss or anything of that nature. MR. CARR-What's your fiscal y~ar? MR. FERRIS-It runs from April to April. MRS. GOETZ-I just was looking at th~ map and how, it looks 1ik~ this will back up to Suburban Residential. You know, it's und~v~lop~d, now, but w~ hav~ to think about what's going to happ~n in th~ futur~. MR. TOWNE-As do the gas stations on th~ oth~r sid~ of that. MRS. GOETZ-Right. 20 "--' --../ MR. CARR-Sue, the Suburban Residential is a lot. MRS. GOETZ-It is. MR. TOWNE-Yes. MR. CARR-As I understand, the storage shed, as defined by the Ordinance, that's really what this is. MRS. COLLARD-I would say this is more of a warehouse type thing. MR. TOWNE-Not warehouse as you define (TAPE TURNED) MRS. GOETZ-I really think this definition of storage shed in the Ordinance MR. TURNER-Storage shed, in relation to the Suburban Residential MR. TOWNE-It's not a warehouse. This is not warehouse space. MRS. COLLARD-No, it isn't. MRS. GOETZ-It might be on the next door property, there were, like, three grey containers. MR. FERRIS-Next door property. MRS. GOETZ-What's in those. Do you know? MR. FERRIS-I have no idea. I think maybe they're just supplies for... MR. CARR-I've got a question for the Staff. I misspoke myself when I said storage shed. What I'm looking at, this is more of a storage yard because, as I read that definition, it means the site.. buildings where materials, supplies, personal items, are stored. MRS. COLLARD-Oh, good. MR. CARR-Okay, sO this is a storage yard. Where, in the Ordinance, is the storage yard allowed, that's what we're trying to find. MRS. COLLARD-Well, probably in Light Industrial only, that I can think of. MR. CARR-It's not listed under Light Industrial. MRS. COLLARD-Probably not permitted anywhere. MR. CARR-Okay, that's what I'm getting at. If it's not permitted anywhere, then, I guess, we've got to decide whether that's fair or not. Where is, Doug Mabey has storage space. MR. TURNER-Yes, that's in Light Industrial. MR. CARR-That's in Light Industrial? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARR-Okay, because I, the way the map looks, it looks very close to being in the CR-15 Zone. MRS. EGGLESTON-They have a...on Big Boom Road in the Light Industrial and that's...to have it on Big Boom Road. MR. TURNER-I think when we changed the Ordinance,..I think that when we discussed warehouse for enclosed storage, we were going to.. . that type of facility, but we didn't come right out and say it. MRS. COLLARD-There's a wee bit of that in the Ordinance. MR. TOWNE-There are two things I'd like to point out to the Board, if I could. The first is that, U-Haul is not in the business of tying up pieces of property for future development of other uses. A lot of these storage companies... and they'll buy tertiary real estate, looking for parcels that, in ten or fifteen years, they can develop into something else. U-Haul and the type of building 21 '---' -../ we're going to construct on this facility, is completely different than the ones you'll see around them, in that, they're not just knocked down metal buildings, they're constructed with cord, concrete pillars and of a permanent nature. U-Haul's in the storage business and not in the real estate development business. That's something, I think, that's significant to the Town. I've noticed, in the Albany area specifically, you have a lot of these storage sheds that go up and down with screwdrivers and that's not the intent of this facility. The other thing is, if you noticed the U-Hau1 building, it's not exactly the facility U-Haul wants to have there in five years. We're not showing a return on investments sufficient to make some substantial changes that they would intend, to the front of the property, as it faces the street. Specifically, there's two items,..gasoline pumping and an open canopy. If they can start turning a profit on this, Steve informs me that the President of U-Haul Northeast has indicated he wants to tear down the canopy and remove at least one of the islands and completely do over the facade of the building and start putting some money, which I think will upgrade the area. Right now, with the losses we're showing, we can't justify those improvements. MRS. EGGLESTON-Does the property go all the way back to the Niagra Mohawk fill line? MR. TOWNE-Yes. MR. TURNER-Your principle business is rent, there now? MR. TOWNE-Yes. MR. FERRIS-Yes. MR. TURNER-Trailers and trucks? MR. FERRIS-Trucks and trailers. MR. TURNER-Do you do mechanical work there? MR. FERRIS-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, I was there on Sunday and there were people repairing vehicles. MR. FERRIS-Well, if it's a truck that we're renting.. they may have 9 or 10. If one of their vehicles goes, yes, we fix it, but no other vehicles are pulled, specifically, you know, into that location, to work on. MRS. EGGLESTON-There was a car. MR. FERRIS-Oh, that's not allowed. that down. 1'm sorry. I didn't know that. I'll check MR. TOWNE-What Steve's pointing out is, in Albany, specifically in Co10nie, they have a major facility where they pull vehicles from a very large area, in for major repairs, but that's not this facility. The next item, Item 2, I think we've shown, in connection with the exhibits attached, we can't obtain a reasonable return on our investment, as it presently exists and the other permitted uses within this zone, we're not going to be able to..return on our investment, I don't think. We would have to séek a use variance with respect to anything, I think, we would have to do on this property. Of the other permitted uses, unless I'm wrong, I don't know what we could put back there. MR. TURNER-Gasoline station with automobile repair? MR. TOWNE-That's what we've converted the main building into. MR. TURNER-I know. MR. TOWNE-We could put a gasoline station in back. In addition to that, I don't know whether, even if we moved U-Hau1 to the back of the property and put a gasoline station in the front or between two gasoline stations, but I don't think the Town wants three there. There were three there and, obviously the people sold it because they weren't making any money. MR. TURNER-Yes. You never know what's going to happen. 22 '----' "--" MR. CARR-Mr. Town~, in looking clos~r at th~ Ordinanc~, I find that storag~ yards ar~ allow~d in Light Industrial. Okay, so th~y ar~ p~rmitt~d in th~ Town, som~wh~r~. MRS. COLLARD-Thank you, Bruc~. MR. CARR-I hav~ a probl~m with th~ commissions paid out to th~ par~nt corporation, only b~caus~ that s~~ms to b~ what's r~al1y making this an unprofitabl~ proposition. MR. TOWNE-Th~y I r~ only unfair if w~' r~ unfairly sk~wing wh~n w~ show a loss. If th~y'r~ al10cat~d in th~ sam~ m~thod to this facility and ~v~ry oth~r facility bas~d upon p~rc~ntag~ of sa1~s, or v~hicl~s plac~d in s~rvic~, or squar~ footag~, or a combination of all thos~ it~ms, it c~rtain1y can't b~ unfair. MR. FERRIS-Can I int~rj~ct, pl~as~? On th~ commissions paid out, a sp~cific v~hicl~, our organization in Pho~nix do~s, that's commissions. I, in ~ss~nc~, gain th~ir..on that v~hicl~. L~t's mon~y to buy it, but I would pay th~ir monthly,...I ow~ $200 a month that is part of thos~ commissions. I don't buy part of th~ say front th~ on that truck, MR. TOWNE-So, it's not just GNA ~xp~ns~s. MR. FERRIS-Right, it's a lot of diff~r~nt crumbl~d in th~r~ b~caus~ w~ don't front all th~ moni~s. MR. CARR-Thos~ commissions ar~ not bas~d upon incom~ g~n~rat~d, sort of, it IS bas~d on on~ location. MR. FERRIS-W~ll, it's bas~d on s~t f~~s b~caus~ of th~ sp~cific MR. CARR-fix~d locations. MR. FERRIS-Right, fix~d ass~t that was purchas~d, that w~ didn' t purchas~, w~ n~~d to pay back, in~ss~nc~, as a t~nant , say, on that prop~rty within th~ organization and, also on any oth~r it~ms, say, th~s~ storag~ sh~ds, th~ylr~ going to front us th~ moni~s and, by r~nting th~s~ sh~ds, w~'ll, in turn, pay for th~m fronting that mon~y. MR. TURNER-Hav~ you don~ a mark~t study to s~~ if this is a f~asibl~ op~ration for that? MR. FERRIS-Y~s and it totally go~s hand in hand with our curr~nt op~ration. r MR. TURNER-Alright. Hav~ you don~ a local mark~t~tudy to s~~ if it's a f~asibl~ op~ration? MR. FERRIS-No, oth~r than.. th~ local d~mographic studi~s, no. community is ~xpanding and.. Just that your MR. CARR-U-Haul of North~ast~rn N~w York, is that individuals or is it a subsidiary? MR. FERRIS-It's a corporation. MR. CARR-It is a subsidiary of th~ hom~ offic~? MR. FERRIS-That's corr~ct. MR. KELLEY-I gu~ss th~ prob1~m that I hav~ and you 'v~ got to answ~r it for m~ is that, in our us~ varianc~, probably, you might know from a m~~ting, long ago, said that this was th~ hard~st t~st to prov~ and that is that th~ prop~rty cannot yi~ld a r~asonab1~, financial r~turn if us~d for any p~rmissibl~ us~ or sit~ plan r~vi~w applicab1~ to th~ zoning district in which th~ prop~rty is 10cat~d and I gu~ss, bas~d on that, I said, alright, h~r~'s all th~s~ sit~ plan r~vi~w us~s, that obviously do w~ll as a sing1~ family dw~lling or a dupl~x. I'm looking at this thing, saying that you'v~ b~~n th~r~ sinc~ 1978, and it's b~~n qu~stionabl~ how much profit you'v~ mad~ in that p~riod of tim~, what's your f~~ling on U-Haul busin~ss as it stands now, forg~tting what you want to do with this storag~ thing? Do you think it's a viabl~ thing to stay h~r~. MR. TOWNE-It's a viabl~ thing to stay in th~ community, cl~ar1y a viabl~ thing to stay in th~ community. Th~ issu~ is, w~ want to stay at this location b~caus~ w~ own it, b~caus~ w~'v~ paid for it, b~caus~ w~ don't want to hav~ to uproot our custom~r bas~ and mov~ to anoth~r part of town and this particular pi~c~ of prop~rty do~s not yi~ld a r~asonabl~ r~turn on inv~stm~nts and I think that's 23 '-' what th~ Ordinanc~ says. You know, cl~ar1y, U-Haul has want~d to k~~p a pr~s~nc~ in G1~ns Falls, N~w York, oth~rwis~ th~y wou1dn' t hav~ b~~n und~rwriting th~s~ lawsuits, that's obvious, but should th~y hav~ to continu~ to und~rwrit~ th~s~ lawsuits wh~n w~ hav~ a varianc~ proc~dur~ that would say, if you' r~ coming in with a r~asonab1~ us~ and you m~~t th~ r~quir~m~nts, which I think w~ do, should w~ b~ grant~d a us~ varianc~? I think y~s. Th~ alt~rnativ~ is, U-Haul, to stay in G1~ns Falls, N~w York, should th~y hav~ to s~ll this prop~rty and mov~ to anoth~r parc~l of land, I don't think any body should b~ forc~d to do that. I m~an, if your issu~ is, why ar~ w~ coming up with this now, it's b~caus~ U-Haul has a numb~r of old~r faci1iti~s around th~ country that ar~ v~ry similar to this, that th~y'r~ saying, what can w~ do to incr~as~ th~ profitability of c~rtain parc~ls of r~al ~stat~ that w~'v~ inv~st~d in as d~mographics hav~ chang~d and som~body sat th~r~ and said, whoa, look what th~s~ storag~ sh~ds ar~ going up all ov~r th~ country. W~ ar~ in th~ moving busin~ss. P~opl~ n~~d p1ac~s to stor~. It is a natural adjunct to our busin~ss. Why ar~ w~ taking advantag~ of it, that's U-Haul' s, you know, I probably n~gl~ct~d to say th~ diff~r~nc~ in this construction and th~ cost of th~ numb~r of units v~rsus any of th~s~ oth~rs around, that you hav~ in Gl~ns Falls, thos~ concr~t~ p illars a10n~ ar~ an additional $50, 000 ~xp~ns~ that U-Haul's putting in. Th~y' r~ doing that b~caus~ th~y' r~ in this busin~ss to stay and in this community to stay and th~y' d lik~ to stay at this parc~l. W~'r~ not going to do this and b~ out of h~r~ in thr~~ y~ars and put up an offic~ building. W~' r~ in th~ moving and storag~ busin~ss and w~' d rath~r not hav~ to mov~. MR. KELLEY-Didn't you, at on~ tim~, hav~ som~ ~mpty trail~rs, trai1~r trucks th~r~? Did you stor~ stuff in thos~? MR. FERRIS-Right. MR. KELLEY-Is that th~ kind of, I don't know what was in thos~, but.. th~ it~ms that ar~ stor~d in th~r~ now, b~ stor~d in som~thing lik~ this? MR. FERRIS-Right, th~y w~r~ van bodi~s, on th~ prop~rty, four y~ars ago, som~thing lik~ that, that w~r~ r~mov~d by us. MR. KELLEY-Did you hav~ things stor~d in thos~? MR. FERRIS-Y~s, w~ did. MR. KELLEY-But using th~ van bodi~s as a storag~ facility? MR. FERRIS-Right. MR. KELLEY-But it was probably for your own stuff or did you r~nt? MR. FERRIS-No, w~ had r~nt~d out of th~r~, at on~ tim~, som~ it~ms, or stor~d som~ it~ms for consum~rs coming in that, mostly th~ Navy p~rsonn~l that ran into big tim~ prob1~ms which was primarily what happ~n~d th~r~. I forg~t how many th~r~ w~r~, probably about 15 or 18. MR. TOWNE-Going on, I'm sorry, did anyon~ ~ls~ hav~ anything? MR. TURNER-No, I don't think so. MR. TOWNE-Okay, on Numb~r 3, I 'm sur~ it' s m~ and th~ lat~ hour, but I don't und~rstand th~ stat~m~nt that says "Th~ varianc~ r~qu~st~d will not pr~s~rv~ any additional prop~rty rights that ar~ not alr~ady prot~ct~d by th~ Ordinanc~." I know I'm groggy, but I don't know what that m~ans. MR. BAKER-I was r~f~rring to r~asonabl~ us~. MR. TOWNE-Okay, you'r~ saying th~ varianc~ r~qu~st~d will not pr~s~rv~ any r~asonab1~ us~? MR. BAKER-It was poorly word~d. I think what I was trying to say is, curr~ntly th~ Ordinanc~ is not pr~v~nting you from using your prop~rty in th~ sam~ mann~r as any oth~r prop~rty in th~ ar~a as gov~rn~d by th~ Ordinanc~. It was poorly word~d. MR. KELLEY-W~ll, ~v~n if you look in th~ Ordinanc~, som~tim~s you look at that Numb~r 3, which is, you mad~ a variation of what's in th~ Ordinanc~, th~ way I would look at it, and that's som~tim~s kind of hard to 24 --- '--'" MR. TOWNE-S~~, I r~ad it quickly and thought it was a doubl~ n~gativ~ absolut~ly gr~at ~ndors~m~nt of this ~ntir~ proj~ct, but I gu~ss I was wrong. MR. KELLEY-W~ll, do you want m~ to r~ad you th~ Ordinanc~, wh~r~ h~ got that from? Is that going to h~lp you? MR. TOWNE-Thanks, it sounds lik~ I n~~d h~lp. MR. KELLEY-W~ll, it says to prov~, okay, that th~ right of th~ app licant, th~ sam~ district poss~ss that th~ varianc~ is n~c~ssary, in oth~r words, you hav~ varianc~ is n~c~ssary for th~ pr~s~rvation of a prop~rty substantially th~ sam~ as own~rs of oth~r prop~rty in without such a varianc~, that's what's in th~ Ordinanc~. MR. TOWNE-Okay, th~ pr~s~rvation is our right to r~asonabl~ r~turn on our inv~stm~nt within this p~rmitt~d us~ and w~'r~ not a110w~d that. MRS. GOETZ-I'm not sur~ that I und~rstand why U-Haul do~sn't do w~ll. If it's such a burg~oning ar~a and you want to stay h~r~, why isn't it doing w~ll right now? MR. TOWNE-W~ll, th~r~ ar~ a lot of it~ms that go in that. If you'd lik~, I'd submit to th~ Board a br~ak down of what compris~s th~ commission, but sinc~ our firm do~s all th~ d~f~ns~ work for U-Haul, it' s th~ $5 million judg~m~nt, wh~n som~body borrows or r~nts on~ of th~s~ trucks and go~s out and forc~s som~body off th~ Northway and kills th~m that U-Haul has to pay. Th~ ~xp~ns~s of running rolling stock, today, if you I r~ at all conn~ct~d with busin~ss that us~s rolling stock, is absolut~ly astronomical. Compani~s, w~ also r~pr~s~nt Ryd~r. Ryd~r do~s a lot of long haul r~nting and th~ cost for r~nting th~s~ v~hic1~s is astronomical. Compani~s lik~ Pric~ Chopp~r, th~y don't want to own th~ir own v~hicl~s, th~y want to r~nt th~m from som~body ~ls~ and l~t th~m pick up th~ ~xp~ns~ and th~ liability insuranc~ and ~v~rything. It's absolut~ly ph~nom~nal. Th~ judg~m~nts hav~ gon~ up and th~ ~xposur~ to th~ compani~s has gon~ up. Th~ cost of doing busin~ss has gon~ up dramatically. This is, aft~r you put th~s~ buildings up and you d~pr~ciat~ th~ ~xp~ns~, itls a can of paint, ~v~ry fiv~ y~ars, to r~paint th~m. Th~r~'s no ~xp~ns~. MRS. GOETZ-Will U-Hau1 g~t out of th~ hauling busin~ss or just go into storag~? MR. TOWNE-No, th~y f~~d ~ach oth~r. MRS. GOETZ-I und~rstand how th~y would f~~d ~ach oth~r. MR. FERRIS-Could I int~rj~ct, pl~as~. Not to mak~ it Qv~r simplifi~d, but what w~' r~ looking at is our trucks ar~ McDonald' s hamburg~rs, that's all th~y ar~ to us. W~ n~~d th~ fr~nch fri~s to mak~ our profit. Th~s~ storag~ sh~ds ar~ our fr~nch fri~s. W~ hav~ an anticipat~d amount of p~op1~, ~v~ry y~ar, that ar~ going to r~nt our trucks, that's a constant, that just bar~ly pays th~ r~nt, most y~ars it do~sn't. W~ n~~d oth~r things for th~m to giv~ us moni~s to, th~ s~lling of box~s, which w~ s~ll, or installation of hitch~s. This is anoth~r av~nu~ that's totally conn~ct~d with our busin~ss, anoth~r form of fr~nch fry or appl~ pi~, to g~t som~ additional r~v~nu~ that is profitab1~. Th~ trucks ar~ just the fixed cOst. MRS. EGGLESTON-In a way, it do~sn't mak~ s~ns~ to stay th~r~ 10 years and never, in anyone of thos~ y~ars, having mad~ money and contemp1at~ on staying MR. TOWNE-Certain y~ars, w~ did. MR. FERRIS-If you look at the profit and loss statem~nt and see, we did make, some years w~' d mak~ mon~y and some y~ars we' d los~ it, but if you look at th~ 8 y~ars, in total. MR. TOWNE-Wh~n w~ 10ok~d at our transactions or how many tim~s th~ trucks run and that stay~d fairly constant...rise, which is good. MRS. EGGLESTON-I live in that n~ighborhood and I see more, you have larger trucks and mor~ inventory than you had y~ars ago, I think, more traffic, in and out, which would lead me to b~liev~ you're doing more busin~ss. MR. FERRIS-Well, in proportion to exp~nses, not r~ally. wer~ the case. I wish I could say ~xp~ns~s stayed ther~ but, again, unfortunat~ly, they kind of w~nt togeth~r. diff~rent, but it's not. I wish I could say that and rev~nues stayed th~re, I wish I could say it's 25 '- .-' MR. TOWNE-If you look at the income on the P & L statement attached, you'll see, in March of ' 89, they showed fiscal year, $222,000, where, March of ' 88, they showed $190,000, $197,000 and it keeps changing dramatically going down. MR. CARR-So, you made a good profit last..? MR. TOWNE-Right. That's what's giving us the incentive to try to MR. CARR-What did you do in March 1990? MR. TOWNE-Have you got a statement done yet? MR. FERRIS-No, March didn't do well, again. isn't out yet. February would be out, unfortunately, we A minimal loss of about $3,000, for the month of February. MR. CARR-What does that make for the year? Where does that put you at, for the 11 months to that? MR. FERRIS-In that particular location, it probably would be a net loss of about $10,000, but I could show you when it comes out. MR. CARR-So you would project a loss for the end of March 1990 for the fiscal year preceding? MR. FERRIS-Right, if we didn't have some other way.. MR. TOWNE-No, for the year just ended. MR. FERRIS-Right, just ended, it's going to be a 5 digit loss. Once again, in proportion, the volume has gone up, but the expense just keep rising. We need something else, fixed, there that'll give us a constant income with low maintenance. MR. TOWNE-The last item on the list is the Board should discuss whether the variance requested would be detrimental to the purpose of the Ordinance. I don't really think you need to discuss it. I don't mean to sound facetious. I don't know what you need to discuss about it, but we're in a CR zone, and we need a use variance with respect to this particular location. Yes, if this entire area was re-zoned Light Industrial it might make no sense, but we're in a CR zone. I don't know what else you might want. MR. BAKER-I just stated it because it's a judgement that the Board needs to make, whether that's an appropriate use in that zone. MR. TOWNE-Well, I think with respect to the location of this proposed storage area and the use which U-Haul wants to make of the property and the slight increase in traffic as opposed to all the other proposed, allowable uses and I think that I certainly don't need to produce market studies with respect to any of the other items on the permitted uses. You clearly couldn't do any of those items with a fair return on investments. This is about the only use, and it's so closely connected to our business, it would appear that it should be permitted within this zone as a MRS. GOETZ-But I think that's something we should discuss because, first of all, it's not that late in the evening, sO I think that Stuart is proper in saying that we should discuss it. We may discuss it and find it favorable to you. MR. CARR-Mr. Towne, I don't know about the others on the Board, but I'm really bothered with the parent taking all the money in the commissions. I'd like to see a break down of what that $154,000 is. MR. TOWNE-If the parent is.. .money to show a loss with a subsidiary, you have a right to upset. MR. CARR-Right. MR. TOWNE-But, as Steve has indicated, it is for the cost allocated for the trucks that we have in the yard. If you look at the P & L statement, you'll see there is no expense associated with trucks in the yard. This is a $9,000 item and the fiscal year ended in 1989. MR. CARR-I see a big depreciation, also. MR. TOWNE-The depreciation is not related to the expense charged by the home office for the cost of that vehicle. 26 -- --..-' MR. CARR-But I think a lot of people, I know, if you have to replace the trucks, or the home company is replacing the trucks, so, that's where you're taking your loss in the future, but then you're also taking the depreciation, which seems to me, then your taking the paper loss and not the actual cost out. You know, it seems like you're taking a lot of losses for the same equipment. MR. TOWNE-Well, clearly, U-Haul international files consolidated tax returns. So, the losses of all the subsidiaries are charging as the income of the parent. So, it's not as if they're losing money on the subsidiary and avoiding taxes any place else. It's a consolidated return. It would have to be. MR. the own CARR-Then, I do money's going. the subsidiary, I have a problem in trying to figure out, exactly, where all I mean if it's the parent getting all the money, and they mean, then the economic argument, to me, loses a little. MR. TOWNE-What I'll do is, we'll get you a break down of how those expenses are computed and try to get you, line by line, of what the commissions proposed are. MR. CARR-Okay, and the depreciation? MR. TOWNE-Sure, okay. MR. CARR-The other question, I was just going to bring this up, is that you had mentioned that you hadn't done a market study and you don't know if this is going to work, but you think the demographics would, in this area, would support an operation of this size. You had mentioned, previously, that, if you don't get this, you'll be forced to move to another zone. MR. TOWNE-No, I said that would be the only alternative other than staying where we are or moving. MR. CARR-Right. My concern is that the home company is going to buy you these storage things, that's going to add to your commissions, the money generated from the storage. . going to pay enough for the commissions to the home company as well as pay to increase your profit for making a profitable location or are you going to say, well, that doesn't work out either so let's get out of here and then we're stuck with whoever's going to come in and take over those storage shed which may not be U-Haul of Northeastern New York. Do you follow what I'm saying? MR. TOWNE-Sure. I will get you a projected P & L break down with respect to the storage shed and what they have at. this facility. MR. CARR-And outline the costs of commission..Arizona? MR. TOWNE-Absolutely. You'll get a P & L as of March '89, as it exists, a break down of the commissions, a break down of the depreciation and we'll dummy up a March '89 statement and say, if we had storage facilities, this is what it would have shown and this is how they would be allocated between depreciation and MR. CARR-And I don't know what the national rental rate on storage sheds, I don't know if it's 100 percent or 75 percent? MR. FERRIS-It's 90 percent. MR. CARR-Is it 90 percent? Okay, then, show at 90 percent because I don't think we're going to show it at 100 MR. TOWNE-These are staggered in. It takes one full year to get the 90 percent, so we'll have to assume that it was put in, as of March '88, we had our, it was March '87 we started, March '88, we were 90 percent filled and we were at 90 percent for the year. MR. CARR-And, by that time, you may even have the March 1990 figures. MR. TOWNE-It's possible. MR. KELLEY-Did you do a feasibility on what you think the potential is to hit 90 percent with these? I mean, there's quite a few of these in the Glens Falls area now, if you start driving around. MR. FERRIS-The feasibility advertise the fact that we Florida here a Navy man or etc. So, we is that we own 1200 U-Haul's, nationwide, and we would have storage and when we send a customer from someone else, he's coming here to get our storage, 27 --- "--" would hav~ that, nationwid~, and wh~n w~ do put storag~ in, w~ do exc~ptionally w~ll b~cause of that, we hav~ th~ trucks that go with th~ business, our comp~titors don't. MR. KELLEY - I m~an, I can unders tand how you could r~nt som~ of them that way, but I can't imagin~ you'r~ going to g~t all of them r~nt~d that way. MR. FERRIS-W~ll, half of th~m ar~ r~nt~d that way, y~s. MR. CARR-So, thos~ ar~, basically, short t~rm rentals? MR. FERRIS-Not as a rule, from six months to a year is our av~rag~. MR. CARR-B~cause I know what J~ff was asking, last year, I was on th~ Ass~ssm~nt Revi~w Board and w~ had a storag~ rental COm~ in, cha11~nging our ass~ssment, saying, w~ll w~'r~ only 40 p~rc~nt h~r~, you know, you guys are putting at such and such an occupancy rat~. Th~y w~r~ arguing that th~y w~r~n' t ~v~n clos~ to half full b~caus~ of...on the mark~t. So, you know, that's why I'm v~ry int~r~st~d to s~~ MR. FERRIS-W~ hav~ s~v~ral locations in ~xist~nc~, in th~ tri-city area and that's not the cas~. MR. CARR-With th~ applicant's consent, I would mak~ a motion to table this for, do we have to do this for two months, too? MR. TURNER-Y~s. MR. BAKER-Y~s. MR. TOWNE-Is th~re any way that that tim~ p~riod could b~ short~n~d, th~ waiv~r with r~spect to th~ on~ final? MR. CARR-All w~ 've ask~d for are figur~s, corr~ct? plan or anything lik~ that. I m~an it's not a n~w sit~ MR. TOWNE-W~ can hav~ th~ figures, in hand, h~r~, by Friday. MR. CARR-Th~n,..be appropriat~, in this case, sinc~ it's not, r~ally, the Staff Input is not going to chang~ as to physical charact~r, would it b~ appropriate to waiv~ th~ deadlin~ of today? MR. BAKER-If the Board would lik~ to, certainly. MR. CARR-Which I would mak~ part of my motion. MR. KELLEY-L~t m~ ask Stuart anoth~r qu~stion. Would it b~ possib1~ for th~, som~on~ in th~ Town offic~s to call th~ other storag~ faci1iti~s and find out what p~rc~ntag~ of occupancy th~y all ar~? I m~an, th~r~' s a bunch of them and I qu~stion that you r~ally n~~d anoth~r on~. MR. TOWNE-wèll, th~y I re going to about th~ir ass~ssment going up say it's low, ~i th~r b~caus~ they' r~ worri~d or b~cause th~y're worri~d about competition. MR. KELLEY-How do you know who to b~li~v~. I m~an, you'r~ going to throw us some numb~rs and your just going to b~ so much th~ oth~r way. MR. BAKER-If you'd 1ik~, w~ could c~rtain1y call around, but, again, it's a matt~r of, ar~ th~y going to tell us th~ truth. MR. TOWNE-I suppos~ the way to do it is to go through the lot and s~e how many lots th~r~ are on each of th~ units. MOTION TO TABLE USE VARIANCE NO. 32-1990 U-HAIJL co. OF N.E. NEW YORK, INC., Introduced by Bruc~ Carr who mov~d for its adoption, s~conded by Char1~s Sicard: With th~ applicant I s p~rmission for on~ month so that the applicant can produc~ figur~s containing the br~ak down of commissions paid to the hom~ offic~ and appr~ciation exp~nse and proj~ct~d incom~/~xpens~ of facilities. Duly adopt~d this 25th day of April, 1990, by the following vot~: AYES: Mr. Ke11~y, Mr. Sh~a, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Go~tz, Mrs. Egg1~ston, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE 28 ~ '--' On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Theodore Turner, Chairman 29 "-'" '-'" TOWN OF QUEENS3uRY PI'"I:1'i-ni"'g Dep~-ime:at -NOTE TO FILE- Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner Mr. Stuart G. Bakel", Assistant Planner Date: April J9, ]990 By: Stuart Baker -L Area Variance Use Variance - Sign Variance == Interpretation Subdivisioa: Sketch, Prelimmary· - - , _ Site P'..an' Review ---'- Petition for a Change of Zone Freshwater Wet1a:nd.s Permi';: FiDal Other: Application Number: Area Variance 28-1990 Applicant's Name: Nancy S. and Peter L. Kudan Meeting Date: April 25, ]990 *******..***....***.*.*.**.**..********~*****~***********************..***.*..............*. The applicants are requesting relief from the rear setback requirement In order to build a 12 ft. hy 20 ft. addition to their ~ouae. The house is situated that any re&sonably si~ed expansion of the master bedroom would require a setback variance. The Board should determine if the owners currently have reasonable use of the property and building. Practical difficulty caused by the requirements or the Ordinance should be demonstrated by the applicant in terms of economic InjUry. The variance requested would not appear to be detrimental to the purpose of the Ordinance, or adversely affect the character of the neighborhood. The only feasible alternative would be to place the addition on the front of the house, but such an alternative would most likely increase the visual impact of the addition on the neighborhood. SB/pw .. ~ ~ '......,I TCWN O~' Q"G:SE~S::¿u::'~Y Pl~Tì'T"'i·~·t·~g De"part:raent "NOTE TO FiLE" Mrs. Lee À. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, PlaIù""ler Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner April 25, 1990 Date: By: ,T<Jh., S. Gor;:¡]ski X Area. Variance Use Variance - Sign Variance - Interpretation Stilidiv.Ε’ion: SketciJ., _ Preliminary, Site Plan Review _ Petition for a Cllange of Zone Freshwater Wetlands Permit Final Other: Application Number: Area Variance )Jo. 29-1990 AppIicant"s Name: Lawrence R. Larson Meeting Date: April 25, 1990 ****************************~***************************************************....**...... It does not appear that tl1is applkation meets any of the requirements for granting an Area Variance. There are 110 special circumstances or ::onditions 2.pplying to this property, and not applying to other properties in the neighborhood. Strict application of the Ordinance would not result in a specified practical difficulty, or deprive the applicant of use of the property. Tne applicant could construct four single family homes, two duplexes or one quad. This is a very densely developed section of Queensbury. Doubling the maximum density allowed would definitely be detrímental to the neighborhood. All of the lots in this area are at least 10,000 square feet. That is why the area was zoned UR-IO. The purpose of theUR-10 zone is to protect and enhance the urban character of these neighborhoods. A 100 percent increase in the allowable density would neither protect nor enhance this neighborhood. JSG/sed ( .- '-/ TOWN OF QDEENSEURY Pla:nning Department "NOTE 1",' #_. 4 U 17ïLE" April 24, 1990 Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner Date: By: Stuart G. Baker X Area Variance - Use Va...-ia:;:¡ce - Sign Variance _ mterpretation Subdivision: Sketch, _ i'reliminary, SHe Plan Review Pet~tl{iD far a Chæ.1ge of Zone Frcstwater Wetlands Permit Final OtheT: Application Numòer: Area Vê.riance No. 30-1990 Applicant's Name: Mike Baird Meeting Date: April 25, 1990 ******************************************************************************************** The applicant would like to build a 30 ft. by 60 ft. addition on to his business which encroaches upon the required 30 f¡. side se:back in Light Inclü.3'crial zones. I have reviewed the application according to the cr-.iceria in Article 10 of L~8 Ordinance, and I have the following comments: 1. The existing building i.ies wlthln the requir2d 30 ft. side setback. Strict application of the Ordinance would not deny the applicant of use of the property and the buildings, but it would make the proposed addition mOJ.-e costly and less convenient. 2.. T!'1e financial burden of building an addition of the size proposed in compliance with the setback requirements could constitute a ?ractical diEiculty to the applicant. 3. The requested variance would not be de'.;rimental to the purpose of the Ordinance. The Board should determine if this variance would provide the minimal relief necessary to alleviate a specific practical difficulty. 4. Public facilities and services will not be adversely affected by tàis variance. SGB/sed i· ~ --,.' '"-,, -..I TO 'I-; ...., r-. 1:,,' v.. {...~ .;..~~ ~ ~ ".-. ....... -." ¿ -~.:... .::-":;" -:-; ,7 V .r\. ..:.. ~J:...'í"{;--·:·_~g "D':;F'G.:r';'i-~'':~:Û:~ ~ ::i 0 "'i' r:; "r (; -.-:"'4'¡ -. ":"...... » 1:'.i...... ~ Mrs. Lee A. Yark, Senior Plarú12r Mr. John S. Goralski, Plar.::er Mr. Stuart G. Bake¡~. Assis'~ant .::-'lanT.er A~):::l 25, 1990 Da'ce: .~ n'Y" (', ,1ri ~ G(j'''? ~ ~ki X Area. Variance Use Va..-.oiance SÌb7D. Varia.t1ce Interpretation S¡;.bô"'rcio',¡: S . -" ~ $}.te :?~.a.:::. ~~~\'-=2'.7 - ...~.. · :J·-::·~~ti(...::¡ :0:'- a C"z.a:::gz of Zo:.:¡e F::.-e..3h":~:a·~.e:·.· '~{'e-t:'~¿¿· ~-:;~~~i:: _ F-.relir.Jinary. F:ina1 Ot~er: Application Number: Area Variance No. 31-l990 Applicant's Name: Brian a'-ìd 3ea:1 Moo~:ey M~ting Date: April 25, 1 S9C *¥",**************~*;¡:*******:¡,;.i¡:¥**",,***';'*:ii:**';:*"'*:. I:::;::;':*:"***:;"':**.f:******'~*::;''!<*****;¡:*********.*****~** Although it is inc0rrec~ly s"tate¿ cr: the ê~el:G3,. the &:::p~ic2.nt is req'..les-cil-.g variar-.ces :r01:rl tt12 Tear y"'ard se:b¿.c~\., ê.r.;.d tilC S2·~~)¿:..~K fl-,")TI'l ·~}>2 2,!,:~i:G.¡:;~_g for a }')oo:. There are special t:or!di~.:ion;::; app ymg to this lot ::1 t:::at it is a corner lot. It would be impossible to p~ace a poel or. 'Òis lot 'NithoG.t comin; imD conf1ic'~ with thè Ordinance. 'Iñis appears ::J oe tbe leas: i¡;.trus:ve l,::;c3.t~on. on t:-:e S:~2 -¡or ¿ poel. Tbe goals of the Ordinance êL:'e áchieve0. by tee f<:once, g¿ü"&g,~, a:-,¿ l:o~lse WbCD serve to screen the pool. If the inability to h2.ve· a poo~ is a practical difiiculty t::e;¡. this reques'c would be the minimum relieÌ necessary"':::> allevlate '.:hat ¿i::':ic~:·sy, JSGjsed t· ~ -.. " ,;:~~, ',: '7 ;l "'£?~ .. .':-..:)'" ,.: '-.. " -, \.. ' . ;,---':, ,/ j ·''<.~~t·::'':~'· '~'<;",'- ..~,<_,,::.}, ,.':~-~ ~~ ""'-' '-../ r;... () ~v/ ~ '. " '-' ......, .... ...... --' '. \o...J ,;...'- ~,. ~ - -~-,-~ "-', µ ,2;¡J;;u.....~.:.::.. ~::;. t jt ~ ;;'C "I' ::: rf 0 ~:;': L E lJ M::-s. Lee A. York, Se¡Üor Plan:1er Ñl1"'. John S. Gorals:,i, P¡a:-:~"le:c Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assista..t P~a:.:1èr .L/ ë.. 1: e: A:~r::'l 24, 199û ;j )r: S·~L:ô.rt G. Baker A?'tE:~ Vz.-.-i~ce -y Use Va:iü.nce Si.gr:.. Va.--'i<..:L.ce fut,~r-eta.·Lion :':::::':·I\.._'~": ',~"": _,:"';.".7 ,-~,,~".U S"~·,.30.:""....~~ -:::-:--: _.&___: . _ ~~40:00"''-&..o, S~·~,~ _:>::'.::L i:{~v..:.¿\i" _ :::Telimmary. Final ~:;êt::..~i0=~ "i.-D_- ::::.. (:~3.YiJ2 of ZoI:e ~;-=êS~'f.·/~'~~.::l" Y/>2ti2..nÒ =?~-.æ~¡ Other: }\ppti.:atioD Nur.:::ber: Use Varia~:çeNo~ :j?'-;990 App.J..-@)'~'S Nam.:;; TJ-Haul ¡2c~. of ":\ T ï:' ,"' ".-..J. " - ".~e·,v ~"P:.JL"':<. ~ ..... ~ .... . Meet:i=.g Date: ..A.D?::~ Z5. :S,90 ",,*::¡.;**,*'¡:*,,,,**,,,,*+:j¡;***,";:,;;,,.¡;*,,,*****,,,,.;c*,,,,::<;'¡;:~*:;'''''¡*:';::i,'*:i'~'*!,:*::<*:!<**o;;:*,**:¡:~**::::;;:;:*********************,:~***""*:.J: Tne applic<3.nt wouid like tv place self sto:ragC' m-"ts m ::ìC rcm" of the V-Haul property \.-/... l\r!.:lir: S~reet. i~.;.fter T'c:vle<.,;.:::.g ;:j,-..c: .:l):~)~i~;;¡_tic~-", ~~]" :.::~ C:....i-:0::1a l:s"te¿ ~~1 .A.~...tic:ê 10 of thE; {:rcl~Z'...a~~...ce, I ha':¡ e ~be :fo...lo 'v\'·l:..g cO::.::~ ~:'"j2:'-~·~S. ~. t"l"'LC ap?l:~(i:J.1: s}:o'cÜd :0:'''',:)\/(: t(; ·,t:~.(; ~o.:.,ú..c '~úa: .....-::. )rc~,)2rt7 lL"1 q:..:.estio:1 15 ~ïJ.2c;.l.:.e to t~1.is ZOi1e, as per Sectior¿ iD (3)(:) of tñê O:.'"¿inã.l1ce. 2. The a:pp:ica:;.'l; ;r:-US"C .sr...c·w an i11ab:L:ty to 'yie:c: ù reasonao:e ret~..l~ on -the prcpel..ty c..n¿è:~ a:.....y of t:he oÓer al~c\v&b"3 '-1s"ò,s in a CR.-IS zone. 3. The variance requested will not preservc> not already protected by the O~~Qi.1.ar.c2. a:1.Y addi tior.al propel~ty rights ...1,... -,.;.. "'.a.~a. L. are 4. The Board should discuss w¡-.eth2:~ ";.;10 73::1anc:e requested would be detriment""l to the purpose of the Orè.il-.z.nce. TIle P;:cfJosed use :T.igrn be more suited for a. Light bdt:.strial zone. Tr.e Board should 2,"50 ::liscuss whether the variance requested is the ::1ini¡naì necessar')f to a:levia";.:'ê a 3~:ec~f:'c bards:l:p. SGB/sed , ~