1990-07-18
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIJlST REGULAR MEETING
JULY 18TH, 1990
INDEX
Area Variance No. 85-1989 Janet R. Leonelli 1.
Area Variance No. 51-1990 Walter o. Rehm, III 2.
Owner: Keith L. Harris
Area Variance No. 52-1990 Albert and Julie Carrow 11.
Area Variance No. 53-1990 Douglas and Letha1u Armstrong 16.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINurES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINurES (IF ANY) AND
WILL STATE suæ APPROVAL OF SAID MINurES.
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR. MEETING
JULY 18TH, 1990
7 : 30 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
THEODORE TURNER, CHAIRMAN
SUSAN GOETZ, SECRETARY
JOYCE EGGLESTON
BRUCE CARR
MICHAEL SHEA
JEFFREY KELLEY
MEMBERS ABSENT
CHARLES SICARD
DEPUTY TOWN ATTORNEY-KARLA CORPUS
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR-PAT COLLARD
SENIOR PLANNER-LEE A. YORK
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
May 23rd, 1990: Page 21, Mrs. Goetz is speaking, up at the top, paragraph that
starts out "I think we should think about the intensity of the warehousing", next
to last sentence where it says "it would be an eyesore to put any housing up there",
it sib warehousing; Page 34, paragraph right under the first one that's marked
Mr. Davidson, go down to Mrs. Goetz, "Are you still Director of the Lake Ge crge/Lake
Champlagne Regional Planning Board", next comment, attributed to Mr. Davidson,
is still Mrs. Goetz speaking; Page 9, at the top, first comment by Mr. Britton,
next line says "Mr. Turner-what size are your" sib fuel tanks; Page 10, almost
half way down, sib 5 gallon gas can, word can was left out; Page 12, at the top,
first comment, Mr. Britton says "We've got 2 trucks" at the end of that line it
says "5 year dump truck" sib "5 yard dump truck"
MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES OF MAY 23RD, 1990 AS CORRECTED, Introduced by Susan
Goetz who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Eggleston:
Duly adopted this 18th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mrs. Goetz, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Shea, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner
NOES: NONE
OLD BUSINESS:
ABEA VARIANCE NO. 85-1989 TYPE II IlEQUEST FOR EXTENSUø OF APPIIOVAL noM 7/26/89
WR-lA JANET R. LEONELLI OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE BI:aœ: ROAD, GLEN LAKE PIIOPOSAL
TO OONSTRUCT A NEW S1ItHER øœE WHIm WOULD BE MORE IN THE ŒNDR OF 'IRE LOT .
APPLICANT WOULD '!EAR DOWN EXISTING NœCONFORMING SUMMER CAMP. ALSO, REQUEST IS
FOR A LAKE SETBACK OF 35 FT. IN LIEU OF THE REQUlIlED 75 FT. (WARREN COUNTY
PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 39-1-27 LaI SIZE: 100 FT. BY 20 FT. SEcnœ 7.012-3
MRS. GOETZ-Read letter from Jðnet R. Le onelli, to Zoning Board of Appeals, dated
June 14th, 1990 (attached)
STAFF INPUt
Notes from John Goralski, Planner (attached)
MR. TURNER-They're asking for an extension of one year. Does anybody have any
problem with that? Okay, motion's in order.
MOTION TO GRANT A ONE YEAR EXTENSION TO THIS APPLICANT FOR VARIANCE NO. 85-1989
WHICH WAS GRANTED ON JULY 26TH, 1989, Introduced by The cdore Turner who moved
for its adoption, seconded by Michael Shea:
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Duly adopted this 18th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Carr, Mr. Shea, Mrs. Eggleston, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Kelley, Mr. Turner
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Sicard
MR. TURNER-The next item under "Old Business", Bessie Ca11ejo, is not on the agenda
tonight. The applicant didn't submit the information requested by this Board
in the proper time frame, so it will not be heard tonight.
NEW BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 51-1990 TYPE II .R-3A WALTER O. RElit, III OWNER: KEITH
L. HARRIS PIQ{LE BILL ROAD (NORTH SIDE) FOR A 16 FT. BY 50 FT. SHED ROOF ADDITIœ
TO THE EXISTING GARAGE. TAX MAP NO. 26-2-10.5 Lor SIZE: 20.88 ACRES SEClIœ
2.020, 9.010
JOHN RAY, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. RAY-My name is John Ray. I work with Walter Rehm and to gether we represent
Keith Harris. Keith, unfortunately, is at a funeral, out of state, tonight, so
he requested that I present this application without him. At the outset, I think
some clarification is needed as to status of the buildings on this property right
now. I don't know how aware you are of what has happened with this particular
building. It I S presently being used commercially. Keith is operating a logging
out of this building. It was challenged in court and it was held to be a valid
prior, nonconforming use and that matter was, again, appealed and it was, again,
on appeal, it was held to be a prior nonconforming use and, as such, the garage
or the building that is there now, and it's a large bUilding, it's 40 by 60, is
a permitted structure accessory to this commercial use. Again, that's going through
trial, it's going through appeal. That is what exists right now. Now, when this
first become the addition to the building. Let me back up a little bit. What
Keith is intending to do or proposes to do is to add a 50 foot by 16 foot shed
roof addition to one side of this building. It is the right side, as you're looking
at it, that would be the east side of the building, okay, the Ridge Road side
of t he building. Keit h received the notification from David Hatin that he needed
a variance, A. Because this was a prior nonconforming structure and this YJOu1d
be an addition to it and, B. He indicated that he needed a variance from Section
2.020, which is the definition section of the Ordinance, Definition Number 105.
Now, that I would like to take up with the Board now. That particular definition
deals with a private garage and, I think, if you consider the facts of this matter,
there's no way this could be considered a private garage because he's operating
a commercial enterprise, a logging business, out of it. It is a permitted use
because it is nonconforming. Again,..by the courts and upheld on appeal. A private
garage, again, no business occupations or service for profit shall be conducted
therein. Such garage shall not exceed 900 square feet in area. However, if you
look at Definition Number 117, Heavy Equipment Storage, it hits the nail right
on the head. This is what this building is. It means the exterior or interior
storage and maintenance of large operational equipment such as trucks, bull
bulldozers, back hoes, engines, compressors and other similar machinery for use
on another lot. Again, this is not a private garage. This is a heavy storage
equipment building that's permitted accessory to the permitted use. Now, wit h
that in mind, Keith would be entitled, in the RR-3A zone, to a private garage
of up to 900 square feet as an accessory structure. What he's proposing to do,
rather than construct another separate building on this property, he's proposing,
simply, to add an 800 square foot, what amounts to a storage shed addition, on
to the building that is already in existence. Now, with regards to the particular
requirements of the Zoning Ordinance for a variance. The special circumstances
that exist with this particular lot come about primarily as a result of the
commercial use of the building that is there now. Because, and, again, it's
permitted. Because he is using it as a commercial structure, it precludes him
from keeping all the normal incidental possessions that one has with his residence,
"*1Ích is right next door. He's got snowmobiles, lawn mowers, four wheel drive,
ATV type vehicle. He's got firewood that he intends to burn next winter. He's
got a boat. He's got a trailer. Now, right now, these are presently outside
and exposed to the elements. Now, there's other special circumstances which apply
to this and, again, they are as a result of this permitted commercial use next
door. Of course, there's a lot of problems with the location. Again, as we see
it, he would be permitted to put up a garage if he wanted to put it as a separate,
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a residential, private garage, and that's a separate building. However, tœre
are a number of difficulties with that. Obviously, if you want a private garage,
it's got to be adjacent to your house, so that you can use it for the items that
go along with your house. The space between the house and the bUilding, tœ large
commercial building, simply doesn't permit the addition of an additional building
in that space. In addition, that particular space is also used for parking, now,
so that, some of the vehicles that he keeps on the lot are kept, more or less,
hidden, not hidden, but t œy' re out of the direct line of view of some of the
neighbors, which are furtœr up Pickle Hill Road toward Ridge and this on the,
it would be the Bay Road side of the house. In addition, if you look at any other
place, if he put the garage on the, it would be the west side of the house, tœ
ground slopes off quite quickly. He couldn't put it there. The same is true
to the back of the house. The only other location, and he's got a 20 acre parcel
of land so I'm not going to tell you that there are no other locations where it
could be put, but the only reasonable area would be further to the east, \\Ì1ich
would be, again, up toward the neighbors, and at quite some distance from his
neighbors. Again, that's simply not reasonable to put a storage building, for
a house, that far away from a house. Now, with the practical difficulties that
are occasioned by, in this instance, the absence of a private garage, again, he
stores firewood outside. He heats with wood, exclusively. He's got that outside
now. Again, it's preferable, from a number of viewpoints, to keep firewood under
cover so that it dries. So that it doesn't get full of bugs. So that it's not
wet when you go to burn it. So that it's proper firewood. So that it's safe
to burn. He's also got a number of motorized vehicles, for lack of a better term,
lawn mo-wers, snowmobiles, four wheel drive, and a boat. When these are outside,
not under cover, exposed to the elements, it makes for additional maintenance.
It makes for additional rust. It just makes for a lot of additional costs just
to keep t œse particular items in running condition. In addition, and, I guess
I hate to say this because I'm sure it might be contested, but there have been
a number of complaints, t œre is, obviously, hard feelings bet-ween the neighbors
and Keith, in this instance. I can understand that, but, again, t œ commercial
use is a permitted use. It's been found to be prior and nonconfonning. It's
obvious, this use is not very agreeable to the neighbors, but the fact remains,
they've gone to trial and lost. The judge found it's a permitted use. They've
gone to appeal and they've lost. Again, the judge found this to be a permitted
use. Now, the last item, with respect to the requirements of the Board, that
this particular addition not be detrimental to the area, that it's tœ minimum
area that's required to alleviate the practical difficulty. Again, t his is not
a gigantic practical difficulty, but it is not a gigantic variance that we're
looking for. Again, he's a110-wed to put up a garage. He's a110-wed to put up
a storage shed. What he's intending to do, here, is, simply, attach it to an
existing building, rather than building a brand new shed. As for any detriment
to the area. It's a simple addition. It's a 16 foot by 50 foot addition attached
to a 40 foot by 60 foot building. It is not going to be detrimental to the
neighborhood. It's just one other thing that will actually be a benefit. It
will get material that's spread out around his yard under cover so that's it's
not exposed, so that it doesn't cause difficulties and, hopefully, will not lead
to any..from this. Thank you.
MR. CARR-John, you said that he's allowed to build a garage, but what you're asking
for is for uS to expand a nonconforming use because, even if we granted this,
he would still be able to build another garage. I mean, he's not giving up the
right to build a garage.
MR. RAY-Well, if this could be, I don't know, a private structure, private storage
shed, private garage, t œ only difference being that it is attached to anotœr
building, as opposed to being independent.
MR. CARR-But wouldn't the courts look at that as just being an expansion of the
nonconforming use?
MR. RAY-I think you're entitled to qualify that as you want. Grant a variance
to allow the construction of however you term it, a private garage, I think it
would actually be a private storage shed, for the use of, if you want to call
them, household items. Restrict it, he doesn't want, this isn't going to be more
10 gging machinery, more 10 gging equipment. This is, essentially, for all the
materials that he has that he can't put in the barn because he runs his business
out of the barn.
MR. CARR-But it's a huge barn.
people's homes.
It's 2400 square feet. That's bigger than most
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MR. RAY-Yes, it's a big barn, but, again
MR. CARR-He can't put in a few snowmobiles? I mean, it's already to the max?
MR. RAY- Yes, he is. He's maxed out. Again, he repairs his vehicles in there.
He's got a number of vehicles. He's got bull bulldozers, skidders, a couple of
logging trucks, trailers and so forth. Putting those items in a garage, ~ll,
for starters, he's going to put things like a snowmobile in the garage in during
the summer and it's in the way all year long. You put your boat and lawn mO\Ver
in the garage in the winter time and it's in the way. He's got logging equipment
and trucks moving in and out of there, repairs being done all the time. In order
to put those items inside, he'd have to leave some of the logging equipment outside,
clutter the yard with that.
MR. CARR-But then I think would feel more comfortable if he built a garage and
put his personal stuff in there because my concern is, he's going to come back
in two years and he I s going to use that and just slowly expand out the business
into that lean-to because there is no police force in the Building Department
to keep track of this and, two years down the road, he's going to come and say,
can I build a garage now, or
MR. RAY-That's what I'm saying. Grant the variance as, if you want to call it
a private garage, then he's got his private garage. It's less than the 900 square
feet.
MR. CARR-But, if that is a private garage, he doesn't need a variance. I mean,
if that was allo\Ved.
MR. RAY-The problem is, it's attached to..
MR. CARR-So, I guess the courts are going to interpret it that it I S part of that
building, Which means they're going to interpret our variance as being an expansion
of a preexisting nonconforming use.
MR. RAY-I don't know. I won't venture into what the courts might say.
MR. CARR-Because I don't want to come back in two years and have him say, ~ll,
you called it what you want back then, but the courts are going to interpret it
this way and I'm going to build my private garage anyway.
MR. RAY-Well, I can understand your concern, but I really think that's a lot of
speculation on what might happen. I think now it can be qualified as a private
structure in the variance and restricted to its use as a private structure.
MR. TURNER-The big problem is going to be policing it.
MR. RAY-Yes,
the area who
to the Town.
but, if history holds true, there are a number of individuals in
will police it. He's been video taped to death. He's been reported
They're very much on top of what he's doing over on that property.
MRS. EGGLESTON-What is the storage building that already exists, to the right
of the proposed addition? There is another building.
MR. RAY-There is another building?
MRS. EGGLESTON-There is another building.
building?
What is it?
Is that not a storage
MR. RAY-I'll be honest. I don't know what that is.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Didn't \Ve see another building?
MRS. GOETZ-I believe so. First of all, I don't call that an
like a, I guess, a lean-to. You described it as a lean-to.
a copy, a diagram. You have never been to the property?
extension of a.. It's
You should have made
MR. RAY-I have been ~ the property, but, I'll be honest, I was by the property
when he initially had a number of problems and the lawsuits and so forth, but
I haven't been back since.
MRS. GOETZ-lid like to review. This lean-to is already in place?
MR. RAY-Partially.
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MRS. GOETZ-Partially, Whatever.
MR. RAY-I believe he started. He dug footings and put up a few poles, and then
there was a stop work order.
MRS. GOETZ-Right, without a building permit?
MR. RAY-Right.
MRS. GOETZ-Somebody that had this many dealings with the Town didn't know they
had to get a building permit? I find that a little hard to take.
MR. RAY-Well, 1111 be honest, I don't know what his motivation was..at that point.
All I can say is, he has stopped. He's back before the Town and applying for
the variance.
MR. KELLEY-I have a couple of questions. Have you got a copy of this plot plan?
MR. RAY-I believe I do, yes.
MR. KELLEY-I guess I see the. .and it shows the existing garage with proposed
addition. It doesn't show the existing house that he lives in. However, it looks
like there may be a lot which may be an addition to that, the 20.88 acres and,
I guess, my question is, is this a lot that was attached to this 20 acres and
is that the lot that his residence is on?
MR. RAY-Yes, that is. I. .two particular lots. .and one of them was just the house
and, shortly there after, the remaining..llve got the original of what you have
there.
MR. KELLEY-On this original, it does not locate his residence in any way, shape
or manner and I drove up there and I drove by it, but I didn't make a mental note
of how far this house is from this garage. One of your comments was that the
distance between the house and this garage was too small a space, but, yet, from
what I can see right here, from the property line, his residential lot from the
garage is 80 feet. I don It know how small that is, necessarily, but I would like
to know what the total distance is from this large,. .garage, if you will, to this
residential house.
MR. RAY-I don't have that information with me at this time.
MR. KELLEY-I would feel inadequate in accepting that interpretation that the
distance between the house and this building is..
MRS. EGGLESTON-It's also incomplete in that it doesnlt show the other building
that's on the property.
LARRY HARRl S
MR. HARRlS-I'm Keith's father, Larry. If we put the trucks on the other side
of the driveway, Wlere the lean-to is now, we would be right directly in front
of some of the neighbors houses. The distance, on the west side, between Keith's
house and the garage, the trucks are more hidden from the neighbors. Now, if
we want, we could put the trucks on the other side of the garage and we'd be right
directly in front of their house.
MR. TURNER-How far is it from the garage to the house.
MR. HARRIS-I would say about 50, 60 feet, maybe.
MR. TURNER-You've got 80 feet from the building to the property line.
MR. HARRIS-You mean 80 from the east side of the garage?
MR. SHEA-Why don't you take a look at the map.
MR. TURNER-The west side. The house is pretty near the property line, isn't it?
MR. HARRIS-I believe it's right to the property line.
MR. TURNER-Right to the property line, as I remember it. So, I'd say the house
is probably 90 feet from the garage.
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MRS. GOETZ-It's a self-imposed hardship as to where you placed the present garage,
with all the property you have there. To me, that isn't a valid reason to give
him the lean-to. lid rather see a regular house garage, as Bruce had mentioned.
MR. RAY-Again, if you look at that map, the only place you could really put a
normal house garage is on the east side of the larger building.
MRS. GOETZ-What about behind the house?
MR. RAY-It slopes right down there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Not that much of a slope. We looked at that. It's a gentle slope
in back.
MR. RAY-It would still require a considerable amount of fill to put a garage back
there. I can understand your concern, but if your going to put a garage, either
behind the house or between the house and the barn, what you're going to have
is three buildings right on top of each other, which is going to eliminate the
access to the trucks that now drive around the building, eliminate the parking
that's around the building and, to stick it back, he's going to have a very long
driveway and then there is a slope back there. It's a slope that would be, I
wouldn't call it considerable, but it's certainly worthy of concern. It would
take, either a lot of fill or he'd have a considerable hill coming out of his
garage to get out to the road.
MR. SHEA-However, t his is for storage of articles that are not going to be in
daily use, so we don I t really have to concern ourselves so much with the comings
and goings of a lengthy driveway, nor of the slope of it. So, perhaps, the
placement of a private garage, behind the residence might be the best solution.
MR. RAY-Again, if it I S a garage, it is reasonable to consider that he's going
to use it as a garage, also. If he puts up a whole separate building and then
you're talking about a car parked in it. I mean, he does have a normal station
wagon, in addition to all his trucks. Right now, it I S parked in front of the
house.
MR. CARR-Then I don't think it would be bad if it was parked in the garage. I
mean for the car value, to protect that.
MR. RAY-Sure, it would, but then, again, you've got the difficulty, if you put
the garage way in the back, the difficulty of getting in and out of it everyday,
with the hill that runs behind the house.
MRS. GOETZ-Well, that's W'iat you would have to deal with because he put the other
garage where he did.
MR. RAY-Again, I can understand your concern that he put the other garage where
he did, but, again, the fact that he put that garage there, when he put that garage
there, not to beat a dead horse, he went to the Town and got the building permit,
he put it there. He didn I t realize that he was going to be having all these
troubles and that, in order to put the rest of the material into a garage, he
was going to have to be back and forth in front of the Board getting a variance.
Had he known, then, all the problems that he was going to have, he would have
planned a lot differently. I know he would have planned a lot differently, if
he knew we were going to have all the problems that we'd had. As a result of
those problems that he's had, he's back here, again, trying to, W'iat amounts to,
walk through, tiptoe through, almost, so that he doesn't upset the neighborhood.
MRS. GOETZ-But, you're admitting that it was a poor plan to start with and why
should we complicate a poor plan?
MR. RAY-It was a poor plan that was aided by the Town. I mean, he went and got
a building permit. He figured he was doing what he should do and then, that led
to all his difficulties.
MRS. GOETZ-Well, W'iy didn't he ~t a building permit this time?
MR. RAY-I don't know why. There are a million reasons why people don't ~t building
permits. The most obvious reason that they give is that they didn't think they
needed one. Apparently, he didn't think he needed one to simply put up, like
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I said, it's not a Whole addition. It's just the roof. Now, I know and you know
that just a roof is a building just the same as putting concrete and walls and
everything.
MR. TURNER-Let me ask you a question. You're saying, if it's a private garage,
attached to a commercial building and you've got 20 acres of land and you've got
a house set to the west, alright, granted, you may have to put some fill in there,
to turn your garage, to bring that up so you can get an established garage on
900 square feet. You're asking us to consider that when you know we're never
going to police it because that shed is attached to that garage and he's going
to take the stuff that's in the garage, that he needs to store outside, he's going
to put it in that shed, and then WB're going to have another problem.
MR. RAY-I don't know. I can't tell what's going to happen in the future. All
I can tell is what we can apply for now.
MR. TURNER-It's easy. Just walk out the door and put it tmder the roof, under
the shed roof, even though he's got the snowmobiles there. He's got his other
assets.
MR. RAY-Well, should that happen, there are actions that the Town can take. There
are enforcement actions.
MR. TURNER-Then let's not create one if WB don't have to.
MR. RAY-Well, it's not his intention to create one now.
MR. KELLEY-You said these two pieces of property were bought on separate deeds?
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. RAY-Yes, I believe so. They were all part of the family farm, there. The
Harris's owned a great ntmlber of acres there and these were conveyed to them on
two different grotmds.
MR. KELLEY-Are these to be considered as two separate pieces of property? Let's
say this house is on
MR. TURNER-The 20 acres doesn't encompass where the house is.
MR. KELLEY-Well, let's say he wanted to sell his house. Could he break that out
of his holdings and sell the house and maintain the 20 acres of the commercial
building?
MRS. COLLARD-Those parcels are joined together under zoning, for zoning purposes.
MR. CARR-But he can sell it.
MRS. COLLARD-From what I've understood, if he wanted to sell that separately,
he would have to subdivide that parcel off the rest of the property because they're
joined together now.
MR. KELLEY-He's in a 3 acre zone.
MRS. COLLARD - Ye s .
MR. KELLEY-And, if he's got 20 plus acres, let's say, if he added to his individual
house lot, so to speak, and got that up to 3 acres, he could sell that as a house
with 3 acres and have 17 acres, over here, left, for this commercial building.
MRS. COLLARD-After he WBnt through formal subdivision.
MR. RAY-Yes, so you'd still have control over that.
MR. KELLEY-Okay, let's say he did that.
MRS. COLLARD - Ye s .
MR. KELLEY-Now, somebody buys this house and says, gee, we need a garage. They're
entitled to their garage with their 3 acre piece of property and you can't tell
me this shed on the side, then, is going to be for residential purposes.
MR. RAY-The Town's got, you do have control over the subdivision.
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MR. KELLEY-Yes, but he can do that. I mean, if he meets all the criteria for
a subdivision, that isn't going to address that private garage. They aren't going
to say, gee, you've got private garage, you've got to take that off and move it
over on to this other piece of property. How do you know what's going to happen
when they're gone.
MR. RAY-This is not a perfect solution, but, again, if you view the property,
I think it is a feasible alternative. It's not detrimental and it's one that
I think is worthy of a variance.
PUBLIC: HEAtiNG OPENED
JANICE MAKI
MRS. MAKI-My name is Janice Maki. My husband and I own land on Pickle Hill, a
little further west of the Harris'. We were not at all involved in all the
proceeding proceedings and I have no hard feelings for the Harris', but, being
as objective as I can, a private citizen should not be held responsible for
enforcing what does or doesn't go on, on somebody else's land and there's got
to be someone to enforce, to make sure it isn't used for commercial purposes and
he could not, he could say, get off my land. If you want to check it out, you
can't. Stay off my land. So, there's no way to enforce that this would not end
up as commercial use and I would think that an 800 square foot private shed is
much larger than the average garage, so I can't see that he wouldn't be able to
fit his personal belongings in something a little bit smaller and I agree that
I don't think that a garage should be, a garage attached to the house, should
be the way to go and definitely not a shed attached to a nonconforming use. I
agree with Mr. Carr that all that is enlarging a nonconforming use. So, that's
my say.
PAUL DAVIDSON
MR. DAVIDSON-Good evening. My name's Paul Davidson. My wife and I reside almost
directly across from the garage just a little bit offset to the east. We've
appeared in front of this Board before and discussed this. I just have a few
minor comments. Basically, ~ know that things around that site deteriorate and
then they get better when there's a hearing and now it's not too bad, probably,
\\hen you drove by. I know that that expansion will just continue to grow and
I think most of the people here know. Keith's hardship, I agree with Mrs. Goetz,
that he brought that on himself by locating that garage where he did, in a
residential area and locating the business. He created his ~ problem and, as
far as locating a home, a residential garage, the slope of the land on the west
side of the house is not great at all. As a matter of fact, there's presently
a driveway there, right up to the side of the basement. If the slope is that
great, that black top driveway wouldn't have lasted, it wouldn't be there now.
I don't feel that it would be a great hardship for Keith to either place the garage
there or a little further back or behind the house. Also, at this time, Keith
is putting a road through his property from Ridge Road and he's selling topsoil
and fill and if he needs fill, I'm sure he has ample supply. Thank you.
DOROTHY BURNHAM
MRS. BURNHAM-Dorothy Burnham, Pickle Hill Drive. I agree that the shed roof is
an addition to a preexisting, nonconforming use. The history on that property
is that, mile he's applying for this shed roof for household items, it will be
used for car parts, truck parts, junk, trash, oil drums, any thing else that you
can possibly name. I don't believe the neighbors want to police that property
any longer. We've been doing it for 10 years. It has been very frustrating,
very time consuming. The Town has spent enormous amounts of money policing that
property and many, many hours trying to negotiate settlements. Now, the business
has been established, legally, as a preexisting, nonconforming use. There will
be no expansion without a variance and giving a variance, at this time, I think
would be a horrendous mistake because, as has been pointed out by others here,
he will continue to come in for variances. I don't believe that the neighbors
should be responsible for policing this property any longer and I am vehemently
opposed to your granting this variance.
PHYLLIS MARVIN
MRS. MARVIN-I'm Phyllis Marvin. Our back yard is kitty corner to the Davidson's
back yard and so they're property is rather between our place and the Harris's.
8
We built there,ll years ago, in an R-3 zone. I don't care what the courts say,
there was no commercial trucking on Pickle Hill when we built our home. The courts
now say we must live with this commercial area in the middle of our beautiful
residential area. Please tell us there are limits. Please say no.
PUBLICC; BEARING CLOSED
I'Ø>RHESpœDENCCE
Letter from Mr. Ray's office, attorney for Mr. Harris, dated July 18th, 1990:
Please accept the following observations with respect to the area variance
application of my client, Keith L. Harris, Ybereby he seeks approval to construct
a 16 foot by 50 foot shed roof addition to his existing building. At the outset,
it should be noted that, contrary to the correspondence of David Hatin, Director
of Building and Code Enforcement, the building in question is clearly not a private
garage within the definitions of the Zoning Ordinance. The use of this garage
has been a subject of a trial and a subsequent appeal and it has been held, at
both levels, that the commercial logging operation, conducted therein by Keith
Harris, is a preexisting, nonconforming use and the building in question is
customary, incidental and subordinate to that principle use. A copy of the decision
of the Appellate Division on this appeal is also attached. In light of this,
it is submitted that the building more closely coincides with the Ordinance
definition for Heavy Equipment Storage which indicates that such storage need
be exterior or interior storage and maintenance of large operational equipment,
such as trucks, bull bulldozers, back hoes, engines, compressors, and other similar
machinery for use on another lot. It is further submitted that, pursuant to the
Zoning Ordinance, my client has the right to erect on this property a private
garage or storage shed, both of which constitute accessory uses. In light of
the special circumstances and practical difficulty detailed below, it is his desire
to build a storage shed as an addition to the existing building rather than erecting
same as an independent structure. With respect to the special circumstances
applying to this land, it is our position that these circumstances arise from
the peculiarities connected to the commercial use of this building, in addition
to numerous problems which are evident when one attempts to place an additional
independent structure on this property. In essence, Mr. Harris has been unable
to reasonably build a garage or shed anywhere else on his property. The practical
difficulties suffered by my client which give need to the rise for the storage
building stem primarily from the damaging effects of outdoor storage on numerous
items. At the present time, Mr. Harris has snowmobiles, four wheelers, lawn mowers,
a boat, a trailer, and fire wood that he anticipates using next winter, all of
which items he is unable to store securely so as to protect them from the weather.
In addition, these items are exposed to the view of the neighbors which bas also
caused Mr. Harris difficulty. Lastly, I believe it is clear that there would
be no detriment to either the purposes of the Zoning Ordinance or the property
in the district in which this property is located. Construction of this storage
building \VOuld actually clean up the area and be a benefit to the neighborhood.
we would like to take the opportunity to expand upon the above at a public hearing
on this application and there we submit this correspondence for clarification
of our position. John J. Grey
Letter from Dorothy Burnþam for Deborah Davidson, Paul Davidson, Fred Burnham,
Phyllis Marvin, Richard Marvin, to Town of Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals,
dated July 15th, 1990 (attached)
STAFF INPU!
Notes from Lee A. york, Senior Planner (attached)
MR. KELLEY-I have a question for you, in regards to the house that Mr. Harris
lives in. Do you have the approximate size of that house. Do you know what the
dimensions might be?
MR. HARRlS-28 by 42.
MR. RAY-28 by 42.
MR. KELLEY-I believe you said, it was kind of felt that this residence was as
close to the..property line as it was between the residential lot.
MR. RAY - Ye s .
MR. KELLEY-So, it's not the 20 acres. So, it would be close to this boundary
line that once divided the property?
9
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MR. HARRIS-Right.
MR. KELLEY-Wh~n you look at th~ hous~ from th~ road, th~ driv~way' s on th~ l~ft,
is th~r~ a garag~ door in th~ bas~m~nt or is that just a s~rvic~ door, or what?
MR. HARRIS-It's just a door to go into th~ c~llar.
MR. KELLEY-That sid~ was, th~n, fully ~xpos~d, so th~ l~ft bas~m~nt wall of th~
hous~, th~n, I b~li~v~, is fully ~xpos~d?
MR. RAY-That building with a slop~ on th~ w~st sid~, ~ss~ntially, so that th~
w~st wall of th~ bas~m~nt is ~xpos~d.
MR. KELLEY-Th~ map that you hav~ in your hand, th~n, it shows that small r~sid~ntial
lot is approximat~ly 100 f~~t by 240 f~~t, that would b~ som~wh~r~ around 343
f~~t of road frontag~.
MR. RAY-Y~s, approximat~ly.
MR. KELLEY-So, it would b~ a 243 f~~t from th~ 42 foot hous~ that's c1os~ to th~
~ast prop~rty lin~ and it was 240 f~~t to th~ west. (TAPE TURNED) Th~or~tically,
you might b~ abl~ to build a garage and not run into any s~tback probl~ms from
th~ road?
MR. RAY-Right, th~ probl~m with is in th~ topography of th~ land. It is a slop~
down. Mr. Harris has advis~d m~ also, th~r~' s Christmas tr~~s plant~d on that
particular, on that slop~. Th~y'v~ b~~n plant~d for quit~ som~ tim~. I b~li~v~,
in ord~r to build th~ garage, th~y had to tak~ down th~ Christmas tr~~s. Th~
s~ptic is on that sid~ of th~ hous~, also.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Is it und~r th~ driv~way that th~ n~ighbor t~stifi~d go~s up th~
west sid~ of th~ prop~rty? Is th~ s~wag~ und~r th~ driv~way that go~s
MR. HARRIS-Just north of that hous~, on th~ north sid~ just a littl~ bit, on that
sid~. Th~ thing of it is, th~ l~an-to is, if you put a boat in th~r~, or say
a boat, 10 by 24, and a l~an-to, you build a garage, you ~t th~ boat in and you'v~
got 15 things to mov~ in front of it. You know what I m~an? Th~ l~an-to, 16
by 50, you can g~t th~m in any corn~r. Hav~ sliding doors on it. Hav~ it nic~
and n~at and g~t th~ stuff out th~ way you want it. I figur~ if a man owns a
pi~c~ of prop~rty, a l~an-to or a garage, h~ should b~ abl~ to do, I don't think
anybody wants to mov~ 20 v~hicl~s to ~t th~ lawn mower out or a snowmobil~, or
a four Wh~~l~r out, you und~rstand?
MR. TURNER-I und~rstand that, but you' r~ asking to put th~ privat~ garage on a
nonconforming us~ that's in that ar~a, and a comm~rcial us~ and how th~ h~ck ar~
we going to polic~ that. You know darn well that if h~ wants to throw a hunk
of iron or an old motor out th~r~, h~' s going to put it out th~r~ und~r th~ sh~d.
If h~ wants to k~~p sam~thing und~r that sh~d, that h~ wants
MR. HARRIS-Wouldn't it..that sh~d and b~ out in th~ op~n?
MR. TURNER-I agr~~, but if h~ wants that, th~n h~'s got to com~ back for a varianc~
for that. H~' s asking for a privat~ us~ on a comm~rcial pi~c~ of prop~rty and
it's wrong for th~ hous~, not with a garage. Youlr~ allowed a 900 squar~ foot
garage, that's a thr~~ car garage, without a varianc~.
MR. KELLEY-Th~ oth~r thing with that, if you b~li~v~ it's going to b~ such an
~ffort to mov~ th~ lawn mower to ~t th~ four Wh~~l~r out and things of that natur~,
I think th~y'v~ got. .ambition b~caus~ I wouldn't want to mov~ th~ fir~wood from
ov~r th~r~, ~y ov~r to th~ hous~.
MR. TURNER-Y~s.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I r~ally don't think h~'s prov~n a hardship or a practical difficulty
b~caus~ th~r~ ar~ c~rtainly oth~r alt~rnativ~s to placing of a garage.
MR. TURNER-H~ owns b~tt~r than 20 acr~s of land. H~ owns anoth~r parc~l that IS
about 24,000 squar~ f~~t that th~ house is on and h~ does have alternatives to
put that private garage as an accessory use to the hous~.
MOTION TO DENY AIEA VAKIANCE NO. 51-1990 WALTER O. REHM, III, Introduced by Susan
Goetz who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Eggl~ston:
10
There are no special conditions applying to this building or property and not
applying generally to other property or buildings in the neighborhood. Strict
application of the provisions of the Zoning Ordinance would not deprive the
applicant of the reasonable use of the land or building. Strict application of
the dimensional requirements would not result in a specified practical difficulty.
This variance would be detrimental to the purpose of the Ordinance and to the
property in the District. The request is not the minimum relief necessary to
alleviate the specified practical difficulty. There are other alternatives such
as a private residential gara~ or a stora~ shed.
Duly adopted this 18th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mrs. Goetz, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Shea, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Sicard
AREA VARIANCE NO.. 52-1990 T1PE II SFa-lA ALBERT AND JULIE CARROW OiliER: SAME
AS ABØlE 42 WINTERGREEN ROAD TO BUILD A 'NO CAR GARAGE 24 FT.. BY 24 FT.. WITH
œLY 8 FT.. SETBACKS FIØI BAR AND SIDE Lor LINES. TAX MAP NO.. 119-3·5..2 Lor
SIZE: 12,000 SQ.. FT.. SEc:rICIf 4.202 B
ALBERT CARROW, PRESENT
MR. TURNER-Okay, ~uld you care to elaborate on anything other than that, \\hat
you said in the application?
MR. cARROW-No, I think that's about it, in the application.
MR. TURNER-How long have you owned the house?
MR. cARROW-I just moved in there a month ago.
MR. TURNER-You just bought it?
MR. cARROW- Ye s .
MR. CARR-Mr. Carrow, is there any possibility of a smaller garage?
MR. CARROW-Well, I'd like to have a two car garage. I have a motorcycle and my
wife's car and I would consider doing away with that 10 by 10 storage building
if that help matters out. I have a 10 by 10 storage shed, but that just isn't
enough. Once you get your lawn mower and your gas grill and your motorcycle in
there you can't turn around, but I would like a two car garage if it's possible.
I'm willing to be flexible as long as I have some kind of a garage.
MR. cARR-The other garages in the area, do you know where they're located,
approximately, on the lands?
MR. CARROW-Well, two doors down, on the same side of the street, there's a garage
right next to a house probably, 10 feet from the house, maybe, I'm just guessing.
MR. TURNER-Yes, it's gPt to be 10 feet away from the house.
MR. CARROW-That's probably \\hat it is, then. I wr;nt around with this petition,
just to see what my neighbors thought of my idea.
MR. TURNER-Do you want to give it to Mrs. Goetz?
MR. CARROW-Sure.
MR. CARR-Were most of the neighbors in support of the garage?
MR. CARROW-Yes. My inunediate neighbors, I didn't gP that 500 foot radius, but
my inunediate neighbors are all in favor of it. They have no problem with a two
car garage. I have a diagram on the petition and I explained to them whereabouts
I would like my proposed two car garage and they didn't seem to have any problem
with it at all.
MRS. GOETZ-The neighbors that are on Old Forge, \\hat is their name?
MR. CARROW-There's McFee and then there's a
11
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~'
MRS. GOETZ-It would b~ th~ on~ that would b~ imm~diat~ly ~ff~ct~d.
MR. CARROW-Okay, that's Crayford.
MRS. GOETZ -Lynn Crayford? Okay. Is th~ lot lin~ jagg~d on th~ Crayford sid~
b~caus~ on h~r~ it looks straight, but wh~n you look at th~ prop~rty, it looks
1ik~ th~r~'s a jog.
MR. CARROW-I'm not awar~ of a jog. I thought my lin~ was right along sid~ of
my driv~way, my ~dg~ of my driv~way was my 1in~.
MRS. EGGLESTON-As you go up your driv~way, though, you com~ to a f~nc~, but b~for~
you get to that f~nc~ th~r~' s anoth~r 1in~ ov~r h~r~, that's what we m~ant by
a, th~ f~nc~ do~sn't go all th~ way to th~ road.
MR. CARROW-Right, it do~s not go all th~ way to th~ road.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Right, so wh~r~ do~s th~ 1in~ continu~ from that f~nc~ to th~ road
b~caus~ th~r~ was anoth~r, th~r~'s a, it go~s ov~r and th~n
MR. CARROW-Okay. I b~li~v~ my driv~way, again, is my 1in~.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay.
MR. CARROW-I think that f~nc~ that's th~r~, is a n~ighbors f~nc~, is th~ Crayford's.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay.
MR. CARROW-That's not on th~ 1in~.
I b~li~v~ th~ 1in~ is th~ driv~way.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Th~y probably hav~ th~ir f~nc~ in from th~ 1in~.
MR. TURNER-Th~ patio's going to stay in th~ back of th~ hous~?
MR. CARROW-Y~s.
MR. TURNER-You' r~ going to ~nt~r, go down th~ driv~way and ~nt~r from th~ front
b~twe~n th~ patio and th~ garage?
MR. CARROW-Right, that's why I want~d a litt1~ bit of a s~tback, inst~ad of 20
f~~t. I could probably mak~ a swing, th~r~.
MR. SHEA-Hav~ you had any ~xp~ri~nc~ in laying out a building of this sort that
would r~quir~ a turning radius to a car. I ask only b~caus~ it do~sn' t app~ar
that th~r~' s going to b~ ~nough of a turning radius for you, particularly for
th~ car that would ~nt~r on th~ right hand sid~ of th~ garage, to ~xit.
MR. CARROW-I s~~ what you'r~ saying. I probably could do away with that patio.
MR. SHEA-You may hav~ to.
MR. TURNER-You' r~ going to hav~ to, to get in and out of th~r~.
to hav~ to driv~ in and back all th~ way out.
You' r~ going
MR. CARROW-W~ll, that's about th~ only p1ac~ on th~ lot that it' s possib1~ for
a garage. On th~ oth~r sid~, th~r~ is a s~ptic syst~m, so that sort of stopp~d
m~ from building it on th~ oth~r sid~ of th~ hous~.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Actually, b~twe~n th~ storage building and th~ pool, it would kind
of mak~ mor~ s~ns~ with a on~ car garage. I m~an a two car is r~a11y going to
max th~ prop~rty in your back yard.
MR. TURNER-Y~s, how about a car and a half. Could you r~duc~ it down? Tak~ down
th~ storage sh~d and put up a car and a half garage?
MR. CARROW-Would I hav~ to tak~ down th~ storag~ sh~d..on~ and a half car garage.
MR. TURNER-W~ can't mak~ you tak~ it down.
MR. CARROW-No. I und~rstand what you' r~ saying, but how would you position a
on~ and a half car garage on th~ lot, as it stands right now? I would lik~ to
go straight up my driv~way and driv~ into my garage, if that's possib1~.
12
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MR. TURNER-Yes, it isn't going to work, is it?
MR. CARROW-Not without some kind of a variance.
MR. TURNER-Show me 8 feet from the garage, you show a 12 foot wide driveway and
8 feet over. So, you're 4 feet into the..
MR. CARROW-Right.
MR. TURNER-So, you're going to lose a foot on the corner, for the door.
MR. CARROW-It's going to have to swing a little.
MR. TURNER-I just don't think we've got room enough for the 24 by 24 foot garage.
MR. CARROW-Yes, ~ll I was figuring..
MR. TURNER-You're constrained by the width of the lot and that's all you've got
to work wi th.
MR. CARROW-Right. The way the house is positioned on the lot, it's kind of
MR. TURNER-Yes, it's set way over to one side.
MR. CARROW-Right.
MR. KELLEY-What did you say you had your vehicles, again, you had a car and a
motorcycle?
MR. CARROW-And a motorcycle.
MRS. GOETZ-And a truck.
MR. CARROW-And my truck, but I don't think my truck would, ~ll, yes, I would
want a two car garage so I can park all my vehicles in, but I
MR. KELLEY-So, you have two four Wheel vehicles plus a motorcycle?
MR. CARROW-Right.
MR. KELLEY-Okay, I didn't hear the truck.
MRS. GOETZ -If you get that two car garage, I really think you should take the
storage building down because your Whole back yard is going to be just covered.
MR. CARROW-Right. Well, I would do that with the two car garage. There wouldn't
be that storage.
MRS. GOETZ-How much do you like the pool because you're just maxing out, totally,
there and then you take that patio in there and the storage building doesn't go
with the pool? I mean, you don't have to have that because of the pool?
MR. CARROW-No.
MR. TURNER-What's the truck, half ton, three quarter?
MR. CARROW-Half ton.
MR. TURNER-Half ton? The car's What, a small car, big car?
MR. CARROW-Mid sized.
MR. TURNER-Mid sized car?
MR. KELLEY-I'm just trying to figure if there's any other alternatives.
MR. TURNER-You've got 48 feet from the back of the house to the back of that
property.
MR. KELLEY-Just, I guess, maybe, to the Board members, the setbacks are 20 feet
side and 20 feet rear. I'm just trying to figure out, is it better to, maybe,
give him a little more leeway in one dimension, to gain something the other way,
but I don't know.
13
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MR. SHEA-Th~ tough dim~nsion is actually, th~ back b~caus~ of th~ turning radius
in th~ front. If you wer~ to minimiz~ th~ r~li~f n~~d~d and say that h~ could
possibly push th~ garag~ forward and g~t a 10 foot s~tback and ask for 10 f~~t
of r~li~f in th~ back lin~, th~n you' r~ narrowing th~ turning radius for him to
g~t into th~ garag~, m.ich mak~s it mor~ difficult and th~n you'r~ making that,
now, 18 f~~t from th~ hous~, with him taking th~ patio out which bas got to b~
th~ minimum, you hav~ to hav~ at l~ast that to turn a v~hicl~ that's 10 or 12
f~~t long. So, th~r~for~, th~ s~tback to th~ r~ar of th~ prop~rty, I can s~~
wh~r~ h~ could b~ asking for th~ maximum r~li~f and going.. m.~r~as, on th~ sid~
yard, you could c~rtainly push that in and k~~p it th~ sam~ distanc~ away from
th~ lot lin~ that th~ hous~ is with th~ pr~s~nt driv~way, Which is 12 f~~t.
MR. CARR-So, What ar~ you saying? Giv~ him mor~ in from th~ r~ar, but push th~
garag~ to th~ sid~?
MR. SHEA-Y~s.
MR. CARR-And mayb~ giv~ him lik~ a, almost an 18 foot s~tback from th~ r~ar lot
lin~. Giv~ him..build it 10 f~~t from th~ r~ar and th~n 10 f~~t from th~ sid~.
MR. SHEA-Y~s.
MR. CARR-But that tak~s off two mor~ f~~t from th~ front turning radius.
MR. SHEA-No, I'm sorry, k~~ping it ~ight in th~ back.
MR. CARR-Oh, k~~ping ~ight f~~t in th~ back.
MR. SHEA-Which would th~n call for a r~comm~ndation to go to a on~ and a half
garag~, unl~ss h~ wants to. .th~ storage building.
PUBLIC BEABlNG OPENED
RUTH HARRINGTON
MRS. HARRINGTON-I'm Ruth Harrington, that's my husband Gl~n and I sp~ak for both
of us and this was 80 f~~t from us, so by th~ tim~ th~y put th~ hous~ in th~ middl~,
th~r~ was no rOom to put a doubl~ garage, but now days. .n~~d a garag~ and I think,
so long as th~y hav~ th~ rOom in th~ back yard, this should b~ allowed, to giv~
it b~caus~ mor~ tim~s, p~opl~ st~al mor~ stuff, so if you can hav~ it in a garage.
So, I'm not oppos~d to it. I'm for it.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Ar~ you a n~ighbor?
MRS. HARRINGTON-Y~s, I liv~ on th~ corn~r of Wint~rgr~~n and..th~y s~nt us a l~tt~r
to com~.
MR. TURNER-Thank you.
BILL LAVERY
MR. LAVERY-Y~s, 11m Bill Lav~ry. I liv~ at 39 Wint~rgr~~n Road and I 1m c~rtainly
in support of th~m having a two car garage. Wh~th~r th~ 24 is going to work for
th~m or not, I'm not sur~, but th~y c~rtainly should hav~ th~ opportunity to park
two v~hic1~s if th~y possibly can. I know I bought my prop~rty thr~~ y~ars ago,
about a y~ar b~for~ th~ zoning changed, so that now 11m going to hav~ to com~
b~for~ to ~v~n get on~ built at all, m.~r~, originally, I had about 20 f~~t that
I could add along th~ sid~ of th~ hous~. Now, I IV~ got 6, so I know what h~' s
talking about. I c~rtainly r~comm~nd an approval.
MR. TURNER-Thank you.
PUBLIC BEABlNG o.OSED
MR. TURNER-Is th~ McF~~ lot in back of you th~ sam~ siz~ as your lot?
MR. CARROW-Th~ McF~~'s lot?
MR. TURNER-Y~s.
MR. CARROW-No, it's a much bigger lot.
14
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MR. CARR-Wid~r or d~~p~r?
MR. CARROW-It's d~~p~r and wid~r, I b~li~v~. Th~y'r~ on~ of th~ original p~op1~
on that, so th~y own that ar~a, so th~y do hav~ quit~ a, I'm not sur~ of th~
dim~nsions .
MR. CARR-My position is, I don't s~~ it as a prob1~m. I think th~r~ is a practical
difficulty in th~ siz~ of th~ lot.
MR. TURNER-Y~s.
MR. CARROW-I think Mr. and Mrs. Carrow would hav~ to tak~ a look at th~ turning
radius getting into that on~ stall on th~ right, but I think that's almost th~ir
prob1~m and I think just that we can' t d~sign it for you, but I think you should
think about it anyway, but as for th~ s~tbacks, without th~ n~ighbor opposition,
in fact, th~ir n~ighbors accord, I don I t s~~ a r~a1 prob1~m with granting what
h~'S ask~d.
MR. TURNER-No, I don't hav~ any prob1~m granting what h~'s ask~d. It's just that,
th~ way it's on pap~r, h~r~, it just looks 1ik~ it isn't gPing to fit, but, again,
1ik~ you say, that's his prob1~m.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Just on~ comm~nt I'd 1ik~ to mak~, on that str~~t, th~ hous~s ar~
v~ry c10s~ tog~th~r and I know we did notic~, in his imm~diat~ ar~a, th~r~ is
a lot of th~ hous~s that do not hav~ a garage. Th~y do not hav~ a garage. So,
do~s that m~an th~s~ p~op1~ ar~ going to com~ and th~y' r~ all going to want to
squ~~z~, th~ str~~t is a1r~ady...
MR. TURNER-W~'v~ grant~d varianc~s in that ar~a.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I'm just saying, ~'d probably hav~ to look at...
MR. TURNER-Som~body cam~ last y~ar for a garage. I can't think of who it was.
MR. CARROW-Micha~l Grav~s, that 1iv~s..just put a garage up.
MR. TURNER-Y~s.
MR. CARR-I gu~ss my f~~ling is th~y'r~ ~ntit1~d to it. If we'r~ gPing to b~ swamp~d
with applications, that's th~ natur~ of it.
MR. TURNER-W~l1, lik~ you say, th~y c~rtain1y hav~ a practical difficulty and
th~ practical difficulty is th~ siz~ of th~ lot. Howev~r, it's up to th~m to
d~sign..a11 welv~ got to do is grant th~m th~ re1i~f.
CORRESPœDENŒ
STAFF INPUI
Not~s from Stuart G. Bak~r, Assistant P1ann~r (attach~d)
JtOTION TO APPROVE ABA VA_lANCE NO. 52-1990 ALBEIlI AND JULIE CARROW, Introduc~d
by Bruc~ Carr who mov~d for its adoption, s~cond~d by Th~odor~ Turn~r:
This would b~ for both r~ar and sid~ yard s~tbacks. Both varianc~s would b~ 12
f~~t. Th~ applicant, through th~ application, has d~monstrat~d sp~cia1 conditions
apply to th~ prop~rty. This is a narrow lot. Strict application of th~ Ordinanc~
would d~priv~ th~ applicant of th~ reasonab1~ us~ of th~ir land. Und~r th~
Ordinanc~, all th~ resid~ntia1 prop~rty is allowed a garage. Without th~ varianc~,
th~ applicant would b~ d~priv~d of an acc~ssory us~. Strict application of th~
requir~m~nts of th~ Ordinanc~ would r~su1t in a practical difficulty to th~
applicant. Th~ varianc~ requ~st~d wouldn't b~ d~trim~nta1 to th~ Ordinanc~.
Duly adopt~d this 18th day of July, 1990, by th~ following vot~:
AYES: Mr. Carr, Mr. Sh~a, Mrs. Go~tz, Mr. K~ll~y, Mr. Turn~r
NOES: Mrs. Eggl~ston
ABSENT: Mr. Sicard
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MR. KELLEY-Do we want to do anything with the storage building?
MR. TURNER-That's up to him, if he wants to take it down.
MRS. EGGLESTON-We could go with a one and a half car garage in lieu of not taking
down the storage building.
MRS. CARROW-I think he'd rather take down the storage building.
MR. SHEA-But if you're intending to approve a 12 foot variance, it doesn't make
any difference to go two car or one and a half, because that's going to be on
the interior portion of the lot anyway. It doesn't effect any side lines.
AREA VARIANCE NO.. 53-1990 TYPE II SFt-lA DOŒLAS AND LE'IBALtII AHKSTIIONC OWNER:
SAME AS ABOVE 7 WINDSOR DnVE FOR THE INSTALLATlø¡ (Jl AN ABOVE GROUID POŒ. (48
F'I.. BY 18 F'I..) FOR PRJVATE FAMILY USE LESS THAN 20 FT.. FROM BEAR Lor LINE. (1/J!\RREN
œWTY PLANNINC) 'lAX MAP NO. 106-1-6 Lor SIZE: 1/3 AatE SEcrrœ 7.074 A-4(B)
DOUG ARMSTRONG, PRESENT
MR. ARMSTRONG-I'm Doug Armstrong at 7 Windsor Drive. we have a drawing of where
we're putting our pool and there's a couple of things that I would like to add
to why v.e selected that location. I mention in there that, to place this pool
anywhere else on the property would destroy the pool's private location on our
lot. There's a couple of reasons why v.e want it there. If we were to put it
anywhere else on our lot, that pool would be out of our sight from our house.
We spend 90 percent of our time in our family room which is located on the northeast
side of the house. I want to be able to see who and what is going on in our pool.
I think it would create a hazard if it were, say, on the other side of my garage
where I couldn't see anybody in the pool. we realize that it's v.ell within the
20 foot setback. The reason why there's no neighbors here is because they don't
feel that they need to be here. They support it, otherwise they would have been
here to protest against it. In fact, I have, as I told you, v.e have purchased
this pool and, prior to doing that, I had my lot leveled and the person who did
that was Bob George who is the neighbor most, WlO is adjacent to our property.
He would be the one, if anybody would have a protest against the building of this
pool, it would be him, but he was, in fact, the one who did it for me, he knew
what I was doing. The other neighbors are well away fran where the pool would
be. One is about 50 feet away. The other is 77 feet away. You would not be
able to see this pool from the street. The other reason is that that pool is
in kind of a shaded area and the reason why it's in a shaded area, one of the
reasons is because my wife could not spend anytime in that pool if it were in
the sun. My wife is sitting over there and she would burn. She almost burns
in the shade. So v.e've got the best site for her, as v.ell. I think they corrected
it, but the pool is 48 inches by,.
MRS. yORK-Right, it's been corrected.
MR. ARMSTRONG-We wish we could have one of those.
MR. KELLEY-It says other canments, it says, "A six foot stockade fence, bushes,
I'm not sure whether that's trees and house or tree house?
MR. ARMSTRONG-No, it's tree. One tree.
MR. KELLEY-Okay, bushes, tree, house and garage surround the pool.
MR. ARMSTRONG-That's right.
MR. KELLEY-Is the fence there now?
MR. ARMSTRONG-No, it isn't. well, yes it is. The fence is there. It's just
not put up. It's too hard to put up a pool before I have an actually pool. I
mean, put up a fence before I've got a pool. If it was September, I'd probably
put up the fence. I've owned the fence for two years. Now's the time. I've
got the holes marked. I've got my property marked and I'm just waiting to find
out what happens. I don't need a fence, by the way, wi th thi s pool. Any pool
over 46 inches with a gate that locks does not require a stockade fence.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
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MR. KELLEY-11m conc~rn~d about wh~r~ you would put th~ stockad~ f~nc~.
MR. ARMSTRONG-Along my prop~rty lin~.
MR. KELLEY-Th~ r~ar?
MR. ARMSTRONG-Th~ r~ar.
MRS. GOETZ-You said around h~r~, too?
MR. ARMSTRONG-Y~s, around th~ ~dg~, that's right.
MR. KELLEY-Okay, b~caus~ th~ thing I notic~d, it's pr~tty well prot~ct~d, obviously,
from th~ str~~t, but if you go around that Gl~nwood Av~nu~. .~v~rything is th~r~.
MR. ARMSTRONG-Th~ stockad~ f~nc~ would go from h~r~, actually, a litt1~ bit to
my hous~, this way, on that lin~, across h~r~ and lik~ this (r~f~rring to map).
So, that would block off anybody coming in from this sid~.
MR. KELLEY-I'm just wond~ring how Mr. G~org~ and his vi~w of this, also from th~
str~~t, b~caus~ it is highly visibl~ from th~ oth~r str~~t.
MR. ARMSTRONG-No, sir. It's not. You cannot s~~ it from th~ str~~t.
MR. KELLEY-Th~ six foot f~nc~ ought to block off a lot of that..
MR. ARMSTRONG-I hop~ so. In fact, if it do~sn't, we'll build it high~r.
MRS. COLLARD-No, you won't.
MR. TURNER-Six f~~t is as high as you can go in th~ rear yard.
MR. ARMSTRONG-W~ll, we'll plant tr~~s, th~n.
MRS. EGGLESTON-How many f~~t from th~ lin~ do~s th~ f~nc~ hav~ to go, Pat?
MRS. COLLARD-Non~. Th~r~' s no s~tback r~quir~m~nt, but we advis~ th~m to put
a f~w inch~s in off th~ prop~rty lin~.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay, but th~r~'s no requir~m~nt.
MR. ARMSTRONG-W~'v~ com~ to a mutual agr~~m~nt with Mr. G~org~ on wh~r~ th~ f~nc~
will go. Six f~~t?
MRS. COLLARD-Six f~~t, unl~ss you want to com~ back to this Board.
MR. ARMSTRONG-No.
PUBLI C HEARING OPENED
NO O)MMENT
PUBLIC HEARING eJ.OSED
OORRESPONDENCE
STAFF INPUI
Not~s from John Goralski, Plann~r (attach~d)
:MarION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 53-1990 DOUGLAS AND LETBALU AIKSTRONG,
Introduc~d by J~ffrey K~ll~y \>Alo mov~d for its adoption, s~cond~d by Bruc~ Carr:
Th~r~ ar~ sp~cial circumstanc~s applying to th~ prop~rty. Th~ back yard is v~ry
shallow and this back yard is th~ recomm~nd~d plac~ for a pool, according to th~
Zoning Ordinanc~. Th~r~, possibly, could b~ an alt~rnativ~, and that would b~
in th~ sid~ yard. Howev~r, we don't f~~l it would b~ th~ b~st choic~ as sup~rvision
of th~ pool in this location could b~ minimal. A sid~ yard location of th~ pool
would r~quir~ a varianc~ also. Th~ applicant is asking for a r~ar yard s~tback
of thr~~ f~~t. This would b~ a r~li~f of 17 f~~t. This app~ars to b~ a r~asonabl~
requ~st and is substantiat~d by th~ fact that th~r~ is no n~ighborhood opposition.
It do~sn't app~ar to b~ d~trim~ntal to th~ n~ighborhood or th~ Ordinanc~. It's
minimum r~li~f to allow r~asonabl~ us~ of th~ land.
17
Duly adopted this 18th day of Julys 1990s by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Kelleys Mrs. Goetzs Mrs. Egglestons Mr. Sheas Mr. Carrs Mr. Turner
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Sicard
MR. ARMSTRONG-I just want to ask you a question. Is there a time limit on the
variance s also?
MR. TURNER-One year.
MR. ARMSTRONG-One year? Thank you.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTEDs
Theodore Turners Chairman
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TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
PlSlftftiftg Department
F I l E
COpy
-NOTE TO FILE-
Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner
Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner
Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner
Date:
July 18, 1990
John Goralski
By:
~ Area VariaDce
Use Variance
- Sign Variance
== Inte.rpretatioa
Subdi'risioa:
Site P1aD Reriew
- Petition for a ChaDge of Zone
- Freshwater WetlaDda Permit
Sketch. Prelim·
- JDary,
FiDal
x ~~ Extension of approval from 7-26-89
Appücaüoa Number:
Area Variance No. 85-1989
Apptiamt'. Name:
Janet Leonelli
MeetiDg Date:
Julv 18. 1990
............................................................................................
The physical conditions on this site have not changed since the original
approval. The only thing that has changed is that Glen Lake is now designated
as a Critical Environmental Area. This designation does not affect this
action since it is a Type II action under SEQRA.
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TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
PI_ftfti-.g Department
-NOTE TO FILE-
Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner
Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner
Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner
Date:
By:
Julv 16. 1990
Lee A. York
x Area Vuimace
Use Variance
- Sip Variance
== IDterpretatioa
Other:
SubdiYisiOD: Sketch, _ Preliminary,
Site Plan Rmew
- Petition for a CbaDge of Zone
- Freshwater WetlaDda Permit
FiDal
AppJicatiOD Number:
Area Variance No. 51-1990
AppJic:aDt'. Name:
Walter o. RehM. III - O~mer: Keith Harris
MeetiDg Date:
Julv 18. 1990
............................................................................................
The request is for a 16 ft. by 50 ft. shed addition to an existing
garage. The addition will increase the nonconformity of the garage (over 900
sq. ft>. The property on wh ich the garage is on is not the same lot as the
residential use. (map attached) Both parcels are zoned RR-3A and are
considered joined for zoning purposes.
The garage is current ly used for COrM".erc ial purposes.
revealed large truc!ts being repaired inside the facility.
description of the property as a residence ~lith a garage may
The garage is a cOmQercial facility.
A site visit
The applicants
be misleading.
The criteria for an area variance are as follows:
A) Are there special conditions applying to this property not applying
to other properties or buildings in the neighborhood?
The only special condition applying to this building is that it is a
commercial/industrial use in a residential neighborhood.
B) Would the strict application of the ordinance deprive the applicant
of reasonable use of his land or building?
No. The applicant currently has a 2,400 sq. ft. garage. The request is
to increase this already nonconforming structure by adding an addition
of 800 sq. ft.
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c) Would the strict application of the dimensional requirements result
in a specified practical difficulty.
The application indicates that the practical difficulty is that his
"household items". ie: snow mobi les. boats and firewood. would be
devalued by outdoor storage. The definition of practical difficulty
indicates that the difficulty has to be created either by the land or the
building. This is not the case in this application.
D) Would this variance be materially detrimental to the purposes of the
ordinance or to the property.
An expansion of a nonconforming use in a residential neighborhood is in
direct conflict with the ordinances and the neighborhood. The applicant
may want to consider construction of an allowable accessory use in an
area where it would need no variances.
E) Is this request minimum relief?
Since practical difficulty has not been proven there can be no minimum
relief.
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VARIANCE NO. ...; I
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M E M 0 RAN 0 U M
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TO:
FROM:
Zoning Board of Appeals
David Matin. Director
Bldg. I Code Enforc.-ent
Harris Expansion of a Hon-ConfoNing Garage
July 12, 1990
RE:
DATE:
Dear Board Members:
This letter is to bring to your attention the circumstances which brought
this building before you for an area variance. Mr. Harris started to construct
a 161 x 501 storage shed addition to his original 401 x 60' garage at which
time he was told he could not expand his garage until he received a variance
from the 900 sq. ft. which is allowed by the Ordinance at this current date.
A Stop Work Order was issued on Apri 1 13 to cease all work unti 1 such time
as Mr. Harris either received a variance or removed the structure. That Stop
Work Order is still in effect as of this date.
Mr. Harris has explained to me that he wishes to store personal items
such as snowmobiles, four-wheelers and other miscellaneous recreational equipment
in this addition. He has claimed that it will not be for storage of any part
of his business and therefore I think it is imperative that the Board understand
what he is requesting here the possibility of limiting him to only storage
of certain materials.
I would also advise this Board that should Mr. Harris receive a variance
for this expansion that he will also be required to go through site plan review
before the Planning Board as stated in §9.010. I have not advised Mr. Harris
of this at this time because I was not sure that he would receive the variance
or not. Should he receive the variance, I would request that the Board advise
his attorney that he will be required to seek a site plan before the Planning
Board.
Thank you for your time in this matter.
Very truly yours,
DAVID HATIH. DIRECTOR
BLD8. I CODE ENFORCÐENT
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TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
P1al,.,.inB Department
F J t E
rnpy
WNOTE TO FILEw
Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner
Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner
Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner
Date:
By:
July 16. 1990
Stuart G. Baker
x Area VariaDce
U. Variance
- Sign Variance
== Interpretation
Other:
Subdi.uïoa: Sketch, _ PrelimiDary,
Site Plan ReYiew
- Petition far a ChaDge of Zone
- Freshwater Wet1aDda Permit
Final
Application Number:
Area Variance No. 52-1990
Applicaat'. Name:
Albert & Julie Carrow
MeeÜDg Date:
July 18. 1990
............................................................................................
The applicants are requesting relief of 12 feet from the side and rear
setback requirements in a SFR-IA zone to build a 24 ft. by 24 ft. two car
garage. I have reviewed this application accordin8 to the provisions of
Article 10. and I have the following comments:
The lots in this neighborhood are all nonconforming in size. The
applicants lot currently has three nonconforming structures on it.
Strict application of the dimensional requirements of the Ordinance would
not allow the construction of a garage on this property. However, a smaller
one car garage would require more minimal re lie f from the setback
requirements. A one car gara~e might also have less of a impact on the
already crowded appearance of this property in the neighborhood. The proposed
location of the garage does not appear to provide much maneuvering room for
use by two cars. Denial of this variance would not prohibit continued
practical use of the property.
All of the criteria in Article 10 must be net for a variance to be
granted.
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TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
" . I.- ..~
PlSIInning Department
-NOTE TO FILE-
Mrs. Lee A.· York, Senior Planner
Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner
Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner
Date:
By:
July 18, 1990
John Goralski
X Area VariaDce
U. Variance
- Sip Variance
== IDterpretatioa
Subdi.œoa: Sketch. _ Preliminary,
Site PlaD Rniew -
== Petition for a Change of Zoae
Freshwater Wetlanda Permit
Final
Other:
Applicatioa Number:
Area Variance No. 53-1990
Appliant'a Name:
Dou2las and Lethalu Armstron2
MeetiDg Date:
JulY 18. 1990
............................................................................................
This property is not substantially different from other properties in the
neighborhood. However, because of the shallow depth of the lot it is
impossible to place a pool on this lot without a variance.
If the Board determines that the property owner is entitled to a pool on
this lot, I feel that the proposed location is the most appropriate. The
purpose of the Zoning Regulat ions is to provide for the health, safety, and
welfare of the c01lDDunity. Since the pool would not be visible from the house
if it were near the storage shed, it could pose an unsafe condition in that
location.
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