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1993-10-14 SP ~ r ~' OR GINAl QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SPECIAL MEETING OCTOBER 14. 1993 INDEX Use Variance No. 83-1993 Kenneth G. Coons 1. Area Variance No. 71-1991 Lucas S. Wilson 4. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISI,ONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWI!G MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MI1UTES. '- QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SPECIAL MEETING OCTOBER 14, 1993 5:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT THEODORE TURNER, CHAIRMAN JOYCE EGGLESTON, SECRETARY FRED CARVIN CHRIS THOMAS LINDA HAUSER THOMAS PHILO MEMBERS ABSENT ROBERT KARPELES EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN PLANNER-SUSAN CIPPERLY STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI USE VARIANCE NO. 83-1993 TYPE: UNLISTED RR-3A KENNETH G. COONS OWNER: MILLARD & BELLE COONS, KENNETH G. COONS MOON HILL ROAD, 1/4 MILE WEST OF BAY ROAD APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO PLACE A MOBILE HOME ON HIS PROPERTY AND IS SEEKING RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-15D, PERMITTED USES. IN THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL ZONE. (WARRE COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NUMBER: 48-3-15 LOT SIZE: 2.50 ACRES I SECTION 179-15D i I MILLARD & BELLE COONS, PRESENT STAFF INPUT i returlned, 'I I "No MRS. EGGLESTON-And the Warren County Planning Board County Impact." Notes from Staff, Use Variance No. 83-1993, Kenneth G Coons, Meeting Date: October 14, 1993 "ADDRESS OF PROPERTY: Moon Hill Road SUMMARY OF PROJECT: Applicant proposes to place mobile home on his property, which is not in a Mobile Home Overlay Zone. A mobile home was located on this property previously, but was sold and removed more than eighteen (18) months ago. CONFORMANCE WITH USE/AREA REGULATIONS: Section 179-15D, concerning t e Rural Residential Zone does not include mobile homes as a permitted use. REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. DESCRIBE THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW PLACEMENT OF A STRUCTURE WHICH MEETS THE ZONIN CODE. Applicant states that conventional housing is beyond his financial means. 2. IS THIS THE MINIMUM VARIANCE NECESSARY TO A LEVIATE THE SPECIFIC PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY. OR IS THERE ANY OTHE OPTION AVAILABLE WHICH WOULD REQUIRE NO VARIANCE? This is the minimum possible. and no other option appears possible. 3. WO LD THIS VARIANCE BE DETRIMENTAL TO THE OTHER PROPERTIES IN THE DIS RICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD? It does not appear that this variance ould be detrimental. Other mobile homes exist in the area, as does conventional housing. 4. WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF THE VAR~ANCE ON PUBLIC FACILITIES AND SERVICES? There would be no e fect on facilities and services. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: S aff has no concerns regarding this project. As noted by the TOw~ Board, this will be a newer home (1994) and there does not seem tp be any ::~g::::::::o:b::::i:::·~he trailer actually been gone? I MR. COONS-I think it's about three years, Ted, I can't I say for sure. It could have been four. I MRS. EGGLESTON-Who owns the house right across the streetr. 1 - 1 - I i MRS. COONS-Todd Engwer. You mean the great big one, the new one? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MRS. COONS-Yes, Todd Engwer. MR. MARTIN-He's been in to me personally to say he hasn't any objections to this. MRS. COONS-And he's got a big new home. MR. COONS-Twenty by forty. MRS. EGGLESTON-What is the reason for this? some kind? Is there a hatdshiP of I I I They're living in a camp now W1ere they It took him all last year just to catch I I I it averaged $900 a month, and I know thþt for a MRS. COONS-There sure is. have only electric heat. up on the electric heat. MR. COONS-The insulation is old. MRS. COONS-And fact. MR. TURNER-Okay. I MR. CARVIN-Are you folks going to get in there. or is th~s a? Does anyone else have any questions? MRS. COONS-No, our son. MR. CARVIN-You're son. MRS. EGGLESTON-Do you actually own the property? MRS. COONS-Yes, and they live in the house that's next d~or. MR. MARTIN-They live in the adjoining house next door. I I , ~t one of together? MR. THOMAS-It says on the drawing here it's 26 by 44. Is those ones you bring in, put on a foundation, and shove MR. COONS-Yes. MRS. COONS-It's a double wide. MR. THOMAS-To me, that's not a mobile home, that's a house. It's a prebuilt house. MRS. COONS-This is their brochure, and it will be. MR. THOMAS-Yes. To me, that's not a mobile home. MRS. EGGLESTON-Will there be a basement under it? MRS. COONS-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-No basement. MR. COONS-They took the axles away. It can be moved agair. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, you can put the axle back on again. I I I MR. MARTIN-And the other thing that happened with these I people, just as a matter of hardship, is I couldn't quite frankly ~emember when, I knew there was a mobile home there before. I thf.U9ht it was in the 18 months, and it turned out it was three years, and in a special fashion. MR. TURNER-Anyone else got any comment? Okay. I'll ~pen the - 2 - public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MRS. EGGLESTON-Read that in? tfuere. I MR. MARTIN-You've got a resolution from the Town Board MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. "RESOLUTION TO ZONING BOARD REGARDIN DOUGLAS COON HOBILE HOME RESOLUTION NO. 539, 93 INTRODUCED B Mrs. Betty Monahan WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: M. Michel Brandt Where the applicant in question did have a mobil home on this piece of property which belongs to his parents seve al years ago. Due to circumstances it was necessary for him to ¡sell the mobile home at the spot where it was placed, it has been v$cant for more than eighteen months. But, what is going back in t ere is a much newer home, 1994 home that will meet all the new co es. His parents are the owners of the lot, have the adjoining h use they have no problem with it. It is an area in which there re other mobile homes so far there has been no neighborhood object ons. We would ask the Zoning Board to look favorably upon this app ication. 1993. by the jOllOWing AYES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano. Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt ! Duly adopted this 27th day of September. vote: NOES: None ABSENT: None" MR. TURNER-Well, you know, the other side of the coin is' that we did grant a variance for a mobile home just down in that ~rea some place. I MR. COONS-I think that's the one next door, probably. me and asked me to sign an application. I Hel came to MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-They really had a hardship, though, Ted if you remember. They were a couple that were older, and they relallY had a terrible hardship there. I noticed, by the way, they're selling out of their garage. The day I was up there they had thelir doors open, and they have like an antique thing in there, pictfres and different things. Does it go on all the time? I I MRS. COONS-They have the doors open just about all the time. I don't think he's openly advertising. I ¡ I MR. TURNER-Any further comments? Motion's in order. ! I MOTION TO APPROVE USE VARIANCE NO. 83-1993 KENNETH G· Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption. sec Thomas Philo: COONS, nded by That we grant relief from Section 179-15D, concerning t Residential Zone which does not include mobile homes as a p use. The applicant has demonstrated that conventional ho beyond their financial means, with a mobile or modular their only viable solution. This does appear to be the variance necessary to alleviate this practical difficulty. not appear that by granting this variance it would be det e Rural rmitted sing is home as minimum It doe s imental - 3 - '- to any other properties in the district or neighborhood, as there are other mobile homes existing in the surrounding area, and that by granting this variance, there would be no effect o n public facilities or services. Also, there is no neighborhood oWposition to this mobile/modular home. Duly adopted this 14th day of October. 1993, by the fOllOW~ng AYES: Mrs. Eggleston. Mr. Philo, Miss Hauser, Mr. Thoma~, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Turner vote: NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Karpeles MR. MARTIN-It's on the Town Board agenda for Monday nigh~. I MR. PHILO-Can they go ahead and get their building permi~ now? MR. MARTIN-As soon as they get the Town Board approva~ Monday night. MR. PHILO-I thought they said it was all right with them. at the meeting? MR. MARTIN-They couldn't act until this was in place. MR. TURNER-This comes first. MRS. COON-So we can't pour cement until after Monday nig~t. I MR. TURNER-Right. OLD BUSINESS: , ¡ ~ll being I ! i ! ! MR. MARTIN-I apologize for the delay, but at least it's done right. AREA VARIANCE NO. 71-1993 TYPE: UNLISTED MR-5 WILSON OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE END OF WALKER LANE APPLICANT IS SEEKING TO BUILD A FOUR (4) UNIT APARTMENT BUILDING ON A VACANT PARCEL. APPLICANT IS SEEKING ONE HUNDRED (100) PERCENT RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-70B. WHICH REQUIRES THAT THE MINIMUM FRONTAGE ON A PUB IC ROAD FOR SUCH USE SHALL BE THE WIDTH OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR PUBLIC COLLECTOR STREET. WHICH IS FIFTY (50) FEET. APPLICANT IS ALSO SEEKING RELIEF FROM SECTION NO. 179-62B, WHICH REQUIRES HAT ALL NONPUBLIC ROADS USED FOR VEHICULAR CIRCULATION IN ALL MUL IFAMILY PROJECTS SHALL BE DESIGNED IN WIDTH. CURVATURE. E C., TO ACCOMMODATE SERVICE AND EMERGENCY VEHICLES AND SHALL MEET LL TOWN STANDARDS FOR PUBLIC ROADS. TAX MAP NUMBER: 60-7-14.1 L T SIZE: 1.467 ACRES SECTION 179-70B, 179-62B SPECIAL NOTE: AV 71-1993. WILSON WILL BE ADDRESSED AND DISCUSSED AT THIS AFTERNOONS EETING. ON WEDNESDAY. OCTOBER 27. 1993 THIS APPLICATION WILL BE A DRESSED SO THAT A FORMAL MOTION CAN BE MADE. THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. BRUCE CARR. REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT I We 'I have I I a MR. TURNER-The public hearing's closed on this. discussion on this. I ! MR. MARTIN-Fred, you've got a draft of a resolution, and we' ' Ve also got, from Rist-Frost today, was a description of the minimum relief necessary, in terms of the road standards for a Town road. I It just came at 3:30 today. , I - 4 - 1 t1e Board u, on the I MR. TURNER-Was Mr. O'Connor notified? MR. MARTIN-Yes, he was notified, but I told him that wanted to discuss this, and it was going to be taken 27th. So he was going to come on the 27th. -r-- MR. TURNER-Was Mr. Valente notified? MR. MARTIN-No. but I think he's. MR. CARR-Mr. Phi 11 ips is aware, I think. corresponding. His attorne ' s been MR. MARTIN-With Paul Dusek. Paul Dusek will be at your meting of the 27th. I think we'll just introduce this today, give verybody a chance to look it over, think about it between now and then. I MR. TURNER-We'll look at it and discuss the merits of itJ That's it. Go ahead. Fred. MR. CARR-No, 33 feet. working off a tax map. MR. CARVIN-I just have a question of Mr. Carr. and maybe of the Board in general here. I'm not sure, I guess the question has come up as to the granting of a relief, as to the actual feet. I was under the impression that it was a 35 foot right-of-way, so that you were seeking 15 feet of relief from 179-70B, but no you're indicating that it's 17 feet. 1 I I think, you ~now, I'm I I I 1 I I scaled it off. MR. TURNER-Instead of 35 feet, it's 33 feet. MR. CARR-Right, and if you go back, and Mr. Valente said, at the end of the road, it's 33 feet wide. So when I said 35, it really should be 33. It's 33 feet, like. all the way down, but lafter 40 feet, you're onto our property. So we can use the otherl 17 feet right off our property to get the 50 foot. So for the fi~st 35 or 40 feet off the end of Walker Lane, we're squeezed, becau~e of Mr. Pinchuk's property, to a width of 33 feet, I believe. I MR. CARR-Plus or map, the scales. minus, because. I here you're indicating, I well, I I I I I couldn't get going on the tax MR. CARVIN-Yes, but on your map see, 33 feet plus or minus. 1 MR. MARTIN-The other thing, just for the Board's attentijn, Item Three, here, in the resolution, PaUl Dusek said that hat may represent some sort of a problem. He'll take that up with you at the meeting on the 27th, but he said he's not sure if yo can do that. ! MR. CARR-What's that? MR. TURNER-Overlapping onto the existing. MR. MARTIN-"even if it means overlapping onto the existinþ parcel property lines." I think that overlapping business Paul w~uld have a question about, if that can in fact be done. I I MR. CARR-Okay, but then Rist-Frost says, 50 foot right-of~way not applicable to private roads. So, I don't know how that. I ! MR. MARTIN-Yes. Paul didn't have a chance to see this I yet. I throw him Tom Yarmowich's letter. I I MR. CARR-Mr. Turner, can I just address the Board, nothingl new. I just want to state, I've talked to Mr. Carvin, after ~he last meeting, and I think the Board is going for the thought th~t maybe this road someday is going to become Walker Lane, okay, anl~ I have a concern. just on the curvature, because Town roads usua~ly have long sweeping curves. If we have to meet the curvature stfndardS' coming straight up, okay, Walker Lane, and then curve i , we're going to be starting a curve probably just about at th end of Walker Lane, okay. I talked to Mr. Carvin about, woul n' t you rather, for the development of the lot in the back of us 'I if that - 5 - ('; -/ ever comes to pass, just have our lane come straight up, and then we just have a road cut type situation, the way we're prøposed. ! MR. MARTIN-I get the impression that's what assuming here. Tom Yarmbwich is , , MR. CARR-Right. i I I i roadway ~urvature as no cirves are I MR. MARTIN-He's saying that, he cites a minimum radius of 300 feet, and he's looking upon this proposed with no variances needed. MR. CARR-That's fine. We'll meet whatever standards the wn deems appropriate. I mean, we've got this deeded right-of-way. We even think we own the property. okay. I don't think anybody' arguing that we don't have the right to cross this property with roadway to get to our property. I mean. even Valente says we have a deeded right-of-way, and I'm just saying to the Town, whatever yo deem is necessary we'll meet, okay, with regard to this roadwa in. I mean, we're just, we don't want to get caught up in ar uing in between Mr. O'Connor and Mr. Phillips and myself arguing bout the minute details. and having us come back and keep drawing, drawing, drawing until we hit the one you want. I'm just telling ~ou right now, whatever you want to see as what's the most practica for the Town we will do. I I MR. PHILO-Thank you. , , I MR. TURNER-On Page Two of the letter, there, Item Nine, ~t says, length from Dolon Drive, it's DorIon, D-o-r-l-o-n. i 1 I MR. CARVIN-Okay. I'm assuming everybody has read the motion. Now you said Paul Dusek has, how about if I were to drop oUf "means overlapping onto the existing parcel property lines."? i I i Y .1 h ou m11g t want I I I I MR. CARVIN-All right, without making the motion, but the i~tent is that, the motion basically addresses the access on Walker ~ane. In other words, the Town indicates that any property has to 1 have at least a 50 foot exposure onto a Town road. Well, I in thi s particular situation, the variance really only addresses he 33 to 35 feet. So in other words, we are only concerned about llowing them to have a less than Town standard access to Walker La e. The right-of-way has got to be 50 feet. In other words, hat's a normal right-of-way onto here. The problem is that they don't have 50 feet for roughly this section here, all right. Now th intent of expanding the right-of-way to 50 feet basically means from this point on. that the road becomes, the right-of-way becomes 50 feet, and they've even got it outlined here. MR. MARTIN-I think that might be more acceptable. to run that by him. MR. MARTIN-I see what you're saying. MR. CARVIN-See, so in other words, if we could get him to ~Uy this piece, then we'd be fine. We'd have 50 feet on Walker L ne, but it's probably pretty unlikely that this guy over here. MR. PHILO-Who owns this piece right here? MR. CARVIN-This is Pinchuk. MR. CARR-This is Pinchuk. MR. CARVIN-And Mr. Pinchuk is, I'm on pretty safe groun~ that I don't think he's going to sell this little section here to give them the 50 feet. My purpose is basically, in other word, we're only really talking the 35 feet here to the right-of-way that comes into here. Now what that does is, it does open up here to this other lot. In other words, if this eventually becomes a Torn road, - 6 - -" then this other lot actually would have the 50 foot right-þf-way to butt up. MR. PHILO-From this 35 foot here, you're saying, Fred? MR. MARTIN-What I would do then is, in your motion, desctibe this 35 feet in. I I MR. CARVIN-Well, that's what I tried, except that there'~ nowhere on here that I can tell you exactly how far that distanc1 is. i MR. MARTIN-Well, then we need that dimension. i MR. CARR-I can just scale that off. I think I scaled it.1 MR. CARVIN-As I said, that was the purpose. In othe~ words, wherever possible. MR. PHILO-What is this right here, Fred? MR. CARVIN-That's Walker Lane. MR. MARTIN-I don't think Paul Dusek certainly underst~nds the situation here. I think if you explained that to him with,ithe site plans, he'll see what you're trying to get at, and I thin there's a better way that can be worded. I MR. CARVIN-Well, that was the intent of that particular section. In other words, even if it overlaps onto their property line, and their property line runs, technically, right here, the contested part is right in here. In other words, they have filed a quick deed on this portion. This appears to be, for lack of ~ better term, an abandoned piece of property in here. and if that was re sol ved satisfactori 1 y, they'll have the ir 50 feet. ~ fit is found that this piece of property is over here, then that Ikicks it into an entirely different situation. I MR. MARTIN-Once you get this dimension, you can descri~e that, then. For a distance of 35 feet. the relief granted will Je 15, 17 feet, whatever it is. I i i MR. CARVIN-Well, again, I'm not positive if, the 35 feet~ can we become so specific? In other words, the 35 feet reallY~iS this point to this point. Theoretically we could make that 35 feet all the way. In other words, they would be technically in co pliance with the thing, here. Do you follow what I'm saying? But herever possible, that's what I wanted to expand it. I don't kn w if we could really give them a dimension on this way. I MR. PHILO-Sure you can. That's right to scale. I don't knowl_ if our address this ~rontage I MR. MARTIN-No. I'm saying your grading, I see what you' rei saying. MR. CARVIN-Because this is not a Town road. In other wor~s, this is a private driveway. Do you see what I'm saying? fn other words, we can address this issue, but I'm not posi ti Vei we can I address this issue. i I I I MR. TURNER-Yes, because that's the only request that's be~ore us. MR. CARR-What you could do, if you don't have the exact d~mension you could just reference the corner point between Pinchukrand our property. I mean, that's a set point. ~: MR. CARVIN-As I said, so far Bruce has not shown any rel ctance. I mean, they're willing to go the 50 feet here, again, be ause it I I MR. CARVIN-Well, no, what I'm saying is, motion, I mean, because our motion only can here, not necessarily the. - 7 - -----1- "-- J overlaps onto theirs, and as far as curvatures, finding, i~ we came into a right angle, I don't have a real problem with that. I mean, that can be addressed. I do have a problem, though. MR. MARTIN-I haven't looked at the site plan in detail. realize, so they do have 50 feet. I didn't MR. MARTIN-Sure. So it's just this ltttle box I MR. PHILO-Twenty-nine, thirty feet. Okay. Jim, can you t~ke me up there tomorrow or the next day, maybe Monday, and show m~ that? I I I I I I not Igoing to I dþn't see I I I MR. CARVIN-They have 50 feet in here. right there they don't own. MR. PHILO-If there's no visual obstruction or they're have a time swinging that with a plow or anything, anything wrong with it. Do you? MR. CARVIN-Well, the only thing that I'm looking at is hat, in this minimum variance, I've tried to address that in the motion, that I .want this road. basically, to meet Town standards wherever possible, in other words, 24 foot travel. is this hat you proposed? I ~he I I I last MR. CARR-That was the original proposal on the map at meeting, we consented to. MR. MARTIN-And the paved swales on each side, pavement? 28 feet I tidth i I of MR. CARR-Okay. MR. MARTIN-I don't think they will. I I MR. CARVIN-The curvatures don't pose a real problem. Aga in. like I said, what my intent, and I think I made note of that in the motion, is that at some point. depending on the ir, it 1 s the i r decision, that this become part of the Town highway syste~. MR. MARTIN-Well, that's the intent of the Ordinance, I t~ink the way it's written, is that should. at some future date. rthis be proposed to become part of the Town highway system, i tl can be easily done. if it's already built to the Town standards. MRS. CIPPERLY-Can the Town accept a road that doesn't mee~? I i I I I MR. PHILO-Then it would be up to Naylor, right? MR. MARTIN-I'm not sure how Highway Law works, if yþu need variances from standards of lots. I know that is a Town S~andard. So I don't know how that would work. I mean, you're goi g to do all the depth of pavement and everything, Bruce? I I I MR. MARTIN-I think the rightly so. from this driveway parking lot. MR. CARR-In the right-of-way. I've talked to Luke, and ¡we build it. right down through here. I mean, with the i~ea going to be a Town road someday because we'd rather have i~ a road. I MR. MARTIN-Depth of, courses of material and all that wil~ all be met. i MR. CARR-Yes. His concern, quite frankly, was, gee, it glts into quite an expense. When we get into here, if we have to dp all of that. i I way this would be, by the engin1er, and point right here, that's from a I regular I will it's Town - 8 - '- - MR. CARR-Okay, driveway. Okay. Fine. All right. MR. MARTIN-I think the terminology would be, from this ~oint on, it's not a road. It's a driveway and a parking lot. I ! MR. CARR-Okay. That's fine with us, then. ~ave they MR. PHILO-The people that are involved in bUilding this, talked to Pinchuk? MRS. EGGLESTON-He was at the first meeting. He wants his privacy. MR. CARR-I'm on a little shaky ground here, because I wa the other attorney that the conversations between Mr. Pinc his attorney, as Mr. Pinchuk's attorney, and myself, he di disclosed, because they weren't fruitful. We h conversations. told by uk, that n't want ve had MR. PHILO-Very good. You've answered my question. MR. THOMAS-I have a question. What about the Valente's se age, the field that's up in there? If they put a road in there, isn't that going to bring it awful close? MR. MARTIN-I think there's a 10 foot separation distance, ask Dave about that. I MR. THOMAS-Because he seemed, Mr. Valente, seemed awful ~oncerned about that at the meeting. i MR. PHILO-If you plow off there, you're going to go five floot with snow anyway. MR. CARVIN-We ll, I'm wondering, if they swing the road, aliI right, in other words, if this road comes in, and again, I don'~ know if this is going to be a straight situation. It probably wo~ld be. ! , MR. MARTIN-It would have to be 10 feet from this property Iline, is my understanding of it. I MR. CARR-Could I just address that, because I think, to abswer it on Mr. Valente's own maps for Baybridge, all his maps t*at were approved showed his property line coming straight up, off the southern side of Walker Lane, all the way, even onto. MR. THOMAS-Yes, as if that road went right straight ahead. ¡ MR. CARR-Right. So. his septic tanks, when he proposed t~em, had to have been at least 10 feet off that, because that's wha~ he said he owned. So, if it was less than 10 feet at that point,l then it I violated the statute. i I MR. THOMAS-If it's 10 feet off the property line, versus I 10 feet off a highway property line, is there a difference? qoes the Ordinance address that, or does it just say 10 feet? I , i ¡ ! MR. CARR-Yes, so he's always considered on every map that h~e's ever done that his property line is this southern border of Walker Lane. So he had to build back from that line whatever distan es were required at the time. MR. MARTIN-No, it's a property line. MR. THOMAS-That takes care of that. MR. CARVIN-And I'm not positive that that would be a real problem with permeability up there anyway. MR. THOMAS-No. There's a lot of sand up in there. - 9 - -- MR. CARVIN-Yes, and I don't think it would really impact. pnly just a small corner in there. I MR. MARTIN-Well, it is supposed to be sewered some day. II mean. my understanding is the Valente project has the lines in ~lace, or it's all designed to accommodate that at some point in th future. hook into what was supposed to be a proposed district up ay Road. MR. CARR-And if you look at his septic easement that he gave to Baybridge. it's a temporary easement, that as soon as t e septic system goes in, or the sewer system goes in, their easem nt ends, and he gets the property rights. MR. MARTIN-I've heard him say that was promised that that would be coming. MR. CARR-Yes. and I've heard two to three years, but. MR. PHILO-Well. what does that guy across the road there, what's his name, the one that, ~assarelli. He's going to put sewer in there and water. MR. CARR-That's what I heard is going, that's what's goin to hook into this project. as well as when the Passarelli project goes in. MR. MARTIN-Possibly. Passarelli may go back down Meadowbr MR. PHILO-That's the way it looks to me. That's where he talked about on the corner putting that pumping station was out on Meadowbrook Road, right? MR. TURNER-Yes. right. MR. CARVIN-Well, I would ask everybody to read this over. Should I wait and make the motion that evening? MR. TURNER-Yes. Are there any other thoughts on what he's got proposed here? Anyone have any question on what he's got plroposed? I MR. MARTIN-You're going to have an opportunity on the 27th ¡to voice any questions or comments. MR. TURNER-Yes. I know. MR. PHILO-I think we'll just do our homework, and, too bad you couldn't get that little bit of property from Pinchuk. MR. CARVIN-I don't think that's a real situation. MR. MARTIN-Well, I think as a practical matter, if the Tbwn ever really wanted to take this for a Town road, then it WOUld go. MR. TURNER-Yes, but Mrs. DorIon over here owns from ther¡' to the Country Club Road, and she's an elderly woman, and I th'nk that there's a possibility that if this gets developed back he e, this road is going to go right back here and come right out ani Country Club Road. I MR. MARTIN-That's right. That's why you should make sure¡ this is built to Town spec's. I MR. TURNER-Then you're right in front of the other road thalt comes, what is it, Orchard, Wincrest. MR. PHILO-Is that where it comes out? MR. TURNER-It comes right near there. because lhere is this mO~ion, I I MR. CARVIN-I had tried to address in the motion, a tremendous amount of public opposition to - 10 - ·······_--1 - reference, primarily, the peti tion that was submi tted ~o us on S~Pt~mber the 10th, I believe, where they outlined, ess,ntially, SlX ltems. Number one was access to this property wouldlprove to be a safety hazard for emergency vehicles and create ~ traffic b?ttleneck with cars tum~ling fro~ a Town road to a drive~ay sized rlght-of-way. Well, ObVlously, lf we make this Town speq's, that should eliminate that situation, and that certainly is within the realm of the Zoning Board to address. I MR. CARR-Mr. Turner, I have to attend another meeting. I ~POlO?iZe to the Board. I have to leave. Is there any other uestl0ns before I go? ! ¡ I ¡ ! I I ¡ MRS. EGGLESTON-I was noticing in here, Fred, Mike o'con~or says, 280A of the Town says no permit for any building shall be issued unless a street or highway giving access to such proposed tructure has been duly placed on the official map of the Town. ~o would that mean you'd need relief in here from 280A? MR. TURNER-No. MR. CARR-Thank you. I I MR. PHILO-I think that's the thing that Paul was going t~ talk to us about. i I I MR. CARVIN-This was dated as of the 13th, which wa~, what, yesterday. i MRS. EGGLESTON-Should I read that, so everybody can hear lit? MR. TURNER-Yes. I I I MRS. EGGLESTON-It's from Dennis Phillips, to Paul Dusek.! "Thank you for your letter of October 13, 1993 in connection f¡ith the above. I won't belabor the issue but you did ask me to con~act you if I thought any particular statutes might be relevant. I In that regard, S280-a of the Town Law says that no permit for the ~rection of any building shall be issued unless a street or highWar giving access to such proposed structure has been duly placedl on the official map of the town, etc. With respect to this provilsion, it is my understanding that Walker Lane does not provide acce~s to the Wilson parcel. Instead, access to the Wilson parcel is by ~asement but not by an existing town highway, subdivision street, I or plat street on file prior to the appointment of the Planning Bo~rd. The remedy for this kind of situation is found in Town Law S~80-a(4) which authorizes the town board by resolution to establis~ an open I development area within the town. I don't know whether or ~ot this has been done by the Town of Queensbury, but if not a permi~ should not issue for the erection of any building on the Wilson 1· operty. I would be interested to know what the situation is in Qu ensbury relative to S280-a, for it might be that this section b itself brings us full circle to the notion that the Wilson proper y is not yet ripe for consideration because too much work needs to be done relative to the definition and formalization of the access¡. S280- a (5) makes it clear that the purpose of the section is i for the public health and safety. I will look forward to yoU~ reply. Sincerely, McPhillips, Fitzgerald & Meyer Dennis J. Phil~ips" MR. MARTIN-I think we have some questions for Paul. I ! I road j We're a Torn road. roadt which, haslto I meet MR. CARVIN-Again, I think that's referencing a Town granting relief from the access. We're not talking This is a private road. This is a nonpublic access this guy is talking a public access road. MR. PHILO-A very good point, but even a private road certain criteria. MR. CARVIN-Well, we're conditioning this, that's whaþ we're - 11 - ---.--t- ( conditioning. I mean, technically, this has been their ~rgument, that they could put a four foot driveway down through th$re. MRS. EGGLESTON-It isn't a private road, though. It's an 'asement. MR. CARVIN-That's correct, and the easement, I woulf think. constitute a road, in other words, a driveway, a onpublic easement. MR. PHILO-It has to meet certain standards. MR. CARVIN-That's why we're here to grant the variance, because otherwise this is a landlocked parcel. MRS. EGGLESTON-That's what I'm saying. though, but do you have to, I don't know about, we better talk to Paul about that. MR. PHILO-That's the only thing there, an easement used ro be to travel a vehicle over, okay. Now, an easement has to eet the criteria of a fire company and. MR. CARVIN-Well, I think we're imposing a stricter cond~tion on this nonpublic road than what would be normally impose~, and I think Bruce has got a valid point, in that we can't reallYr'hOld him to a standard that, if somebody else comes in for a ho se that needs a, they don't have that. and they're just going 0 put a public road down through there. We're asking him to blasically build a town standard road through there. I MR. PHILO-I'm going to bring up one case that we voted on.1 over on, off the Country Club Road, next to Tim Sperry's' what was the name of that road? It was Weeks, MR. TURNER-I know where you mean. MR. PHILO-We voted on that. MR. MARTIN-Sweet Road? MR. TURNER-Timms? MR. PHILO-Timms property, right. MR. TURNER-Sid Timms. MR. PHILO-One of their daughters built a house in tlie back, remember that? It was 1,000 feet, and we gave him a 30 foo~ right- of-way back there, and it was on private property, and th~y tried to, Dusek looked at it, and they passed that. Do you !remember that? It was Timms property. We gave them a 30 foot easþment in there. '! I MR. MARTIN-My thing is, from a planning perspective, I thlink this is certainly going to be, like Ted said, some day this is ~oing to run right through maybe, and this has got to be built t~ a town standard, I think. ' MR. TURNER-There's no doubt about it. It's just a matter þf time. MR. MARTIN-Because this, I think, within 10 years this w~ll be a curb cut on Country Club Road. MR. PHILO-Okay. Can I ask one thing on that then? with this law probably better than. I You're familiar , I I MR. MARTIN-I don't know that Section. That's Town Law 28~-a. MR. PHILO-No. What I'm saying is, when they go in. say t~at they had this already, the 50 foot past that 30 foot, say 29, '30 feet coming in, they need a wider variance, or they need more p operty. - 12 - '- What about this law of public domain? Once it's in thete, could the town say, we need this? ! i Yes. That!s always to make it, tou know, I I MR. CARVIN-I think you're going to be opening up a can lof worms with Pinchuk on that, if they do that. because the whole t~ing here of this whole area is under contention. That's the prob~em. I MRS. EGGLESTON-There's one other letter here that mig¡{t be of interest to the Zoning Board. It's dated September 27tþ. It's from Bruce Carr, it's to Bruce Carr from Dennis ~hilliPS' "Enclosed please find a copy of the letter I sent to P ul Dusek relative to the liability of an administrative body wh n legal facts and conclusions of law are in dispute. Unless you can cite some legal authority to the contrary, we take the POSitì'on that where there is a definite controversy between private part es as to the underlying ownership of land and the important defini ion of a right-of-way, not to mention certain environmental iss es, and where all of the facts of the controversy have been reveal¢d to the ZBA prior to its rendering of a decision, prudence require$ the ZBA to table the matter until such time as the variance sefker can present to the ZBA an uncontradicted application. Tab ing the matter would not settle a legal dispute, but it would protect the ZBA from possible liability and involvement in some legal action. I do not agree with the ready, fire, aim approach that I you are suggesting to the ZBA." I I MR. MARTIN-You can condemn that and take it. an option, this little triangular piece here. your 50 foot. MR. PHILO-That's what I'm saying. MR. MARTIN-Paul's got a response to that. I know he doe~. I i The next time, if we could meet with Pa~l. , i MR. PHILO-Okay. MR. MARTIN-He's up. MR. PHILO-Okay. going to be at the 27th meeting when you take this Is this going to be a closed meeting? MRS. EGGLESTON-No. MR. MARTIN-You're not going to accept to. In other wOfds, the ! any comment, unless ~ed wants ! MR. CARVIN-Well, it's closed to the public. public hearing is closed. , ! MR. TURNER-Unless the Board wants to hear from somebody. I I as the Town taking that piece of I Pinchuk wouldn't become an issue until you þad some i i this would serv~ce this or third property]. but if think it incre~ses the I ! MRS. CIPPERLY-As far property, it probably further development. MR. MARTIN-Right. property and maybe Dorlon's property likelihood of this In the meantime, potentially a second ever goes, then I being over. MR. PHILO-What's your concept about the whole thing so fa~? I " MR. MARTIN-I wasn't aware until Fred pointed out in detail)1 I feel better about it that we got 50 feet for this entire distan e here. You've just got this small 30 foot strip that's limited to 35 feet. Now, naturally, and Paul will, in a sense, this is not matter before this Board, that this is, in fact, they do hav proper ownership over this piece, but that is not a concern of thir Board. i MR. TURNER-No. I - 13 - '- - MR. CARVIN-Our only issue, basically, is whether we grant them the variance here. MR. TURNER-Road frontage. MR. CARVIN-The road frontage. That road frontage is 30 foot there no~ on that I il MR. PHILO-Thirty-three. I MR. CARVIN-Well, he said 35 plus or minus, so he's putti1ng it at 33, which brings me to my other question, that I'm not Pos~tive, on the application, exactly what, question, and I think one~'Of these letters spells it out. Do we have to be specific, or do hey have to be specific on the application, because the original ap lication that we're citing is on a whole different section, beca se your determination came down that it wasn't the 40 feet. It w s the 50 feet. . MR. TURNER-The second application is the one we sJould be addressing. MR. PHILO-Okay. map? MR. TURNER-Thirty-three. MR. MARTIN-It's the 50 feet. MRS. CIPPERLY-They filed a second application. MR. CARVIN-Okay. application. See, I have not got, in my records, k second I MRS. CIPPERLY-Bruce Carr said all they did section of the law. They didn't change application. ¡ ! was add the ope other anything elsei on the i MR. CARVIN-See, I think this is what O'Connor was addressing. That I don't know if we can change horses in the middle of thel stream. i I was tab~ed, and came ÌIl a paid I ¡ I MR. CARVIN-As such. As long as we've got our T's and I'f dotted there, because they will pick that apart. MRS. CIPPERLY-It was after that meeting where it after 0' Connor had pointed out that section, he another fee, readvertised. I I MR. MARTIN-As long as that section number was referenced, ~he 179- 70D or whatever, as long as that's referenced, that's the i~portant thing. I I I ¡ MR. PHILO-We're all set? I I, MR. CARVIN-On this, unless anybody's got any other qUestipns. ¡ MR. PHILO-There's one question I have, and Fred was very ßpecific the night we talked about this, was the application for your friend up there. MRS. EGGLESTON-The garage? MR. PHILO-The garage. He hasn't done anything d~fferent landscaping there or anything. MRS. EGGLESTON-Rossi. MR. PHILO-He hasn't complied yet. MRS. EGGLESTON-He's still got two dump trucks, a flat bedf a back hoe and whatever. They'll be all winter. - 14 - -_._~----- - MR. PHILO-I see four pieces of equipment when I went the MR. MARTIN-When were they there, Joyce? MRS. EGGLESTON-They just ignore it. MR. MARTIN-Are they there all the time? MRS. EGGLESTON-Every day, one up front by the front yard, and one down by the garage. They're there all the time. MR. PHILO-I was there last week, I see four vehicles. that side down yet, the lean-to, did he open that up? Di1 he take I I I I h d great nd these ot here, to find here I'm MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. CARVIN-Okay. Just a couple of things. I have difficulty in the past finding some of these locations, things have to be pointed out, because I'm a dummy. I've is this map incomplete, and there's no description on ho the property. The map is very poor. I have no idea of supposed to go on this thing. I , I I I MR. PHILO-I'm a native, and I had a hard time finding it.! MR. CARVIN-Up on the lake, where you've got 15 camps therej I never know if I'm looking at the right one. ! I I ! I I drove up ~nd down. i MR. MARTIN-Well, I'll tell you what the Planning Board ~id. We made up letter sized red markers, subdivision requested hl:re, and it's got to be put at the end of the driveway. We coul~ do the same thing for the variances. MRS. EGGLESTON-That's a good idea. I always thought the~ should. MRS. CIPPERLY-Seeley's? MR. CARVIN-Well, this was also on the Coons. , I MR. MARTIN-When we give out the application, we give out t~e bright infrared, eight and a half by eleven sheet. I I I MR. TURNER-We talked about that a long time ago, about mar~ing the property, because. I ! MR. CARVIN-All I'm saying is, I'm willing to table the th~ng, and if these folks want to sit until November until we can fird these things, because if I can't find it, I can't really I make a determination on it. i MRS. EGGLESTON-I know the last one we had on Sullivan Dtive, up across from the Docksider, there were no specific directions to that thing. Now we've got another one, Rivette in there. I This is , going to be fun trying to, unless you go to somebody's d?or, and ask and say, where is this. I i MISS HAUSER-I did that. They didn't know where it was ei~her. I MRS. EGGLESTON-I know it. It's going to be very difficult. '! MRS. CIPPERLY-One thing that I had considered was taking a þopy of, especially if you've got a bunch in one area, the map tnd just indicating where each of these are for you and giving you a copy. I , I MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, gee, even if the people were told tOLbe sure your name is out in front or something to find it. That'r a good idea, the marker. I I MR. TURNER-Give them a marker. let them put it on the bui~ding or at the end of the driveway, whichever's close. - 15 - '- --- MRS. CIPPERLY-On Rivette's it's tricky, but once you're t~ere, you go, this was simpl~. , I I MR. MARTIN-No, they're bad though. I remember when we uSfd to go. ¡ MR. CARVIN-Either that or we all get in the van and we all do it at one time, which is going to be almost impossible to get us altogether. MR. MARTIN-No. We'll put markers out. MR. CARVIN-The only thing, I would ask you to get somelthing on Seeley here, because. I I MRS. CIPPERLY-Okay. Seeley, if you're on Sunnyside, it'~ a half built utility shed right on the road. I i I I I I I I North is lin back. That's ~ough out i I I MR. CARVIN-That's what I'm saying, as far as I'm concernþd, this thing is incomplete. ¡ slaid you, tlo get it i MR. CARVIN-It's on Sunnyside, is it? MRS. CIPPERLY-Yes, Sunnyside North. MRS. EGGLESTON-That's over in back. Sunnyside You go past Sunnyside, and take the next right. in there. MR. PHILO-Jim, there was one other thing. Remember you these proposals, when you make a motion, you were going a little easier? I ¡ I MR. MARTIN-Yes. We're still, I want to get, like model re~olutions for you to fill in the blanks. ! MR. PHILO-I talked to him about that. I said. you've 90~, to be a Philadelphia Lawyer, if you think you're going to. I I MR. MARTIN-The other thing that's more of a concern to mþ is you always do these things at the moment, you're leaving somet~ing out. i MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, let me ask our Chairman, though, WOUl~' that be legal, since these are supposed to be our own thoug ts, and absolutely no influence from anyone anywhere? So if the T wn made up the motion. i MR. MARTIN-It would not be written in such a way, Joyce. lIt would be just the basic bare bones generic, and then you' dL have a latitude to put in whatever you want. The State ~uilding Inspection Review Board does the same thing. They ha1e model resolutions where you just have a section of condi~ions or whatever. I MR. PHILO-When do you think you'll have that ready for usl to look at? I MR. MARTIN-In the interest of speeding up meetings. i I ¡ MR. CARVIN-Item Number Two, here, without be laboring i1' going through the permits issued for September, I noticed ther 's some three car attached garages. Are these allover 900 squar feet? i MR. MARTIN-No. i ¡ I CARVIN-Okay. Well, that's what I was wondering, becauþe there three or four of them, and I just thought a three carl garage. i If they are, they come see you. MR. was MR. MARTIN-No. I MRS. EGGLESTON-Can you have a three car garage that's less ~han 900 They're checked very thoroughly. - 16 - ----------r--- '-- -- square feet? MRS. CIPPERLY-Nine hundred is about a four car garage, MR. MARTIN-I don't know about four, but you can do three ufuallY. I u~der 900. I MR. CARVIN-Okay, because I noticed. i MRS. EGGLESTON-I was told they changed the Ordinance on thf fences? I i So those peo~le up on i I I I MR. CARVIN-On the meeting of October the 20th, Kelly carJe. I MR. MARTIN-That's coming Monday night. MRS. EGGLESTON-Is it coming Monday night. Potter Road are going to. MR. TURNER-That's for them. That was for them. MR. TURNER-Yes, we've got to redo that. MR. CARVIN-We have to redo the whole thing? MR. TURNER-We've got to take the other, rescind our motio for the other one, and do the, the public wasn't notified. I thought it was awfully funny, because I kept asking him where is eve ybody. MRS. EGGLESTON-Have you been up the Corinth Road lately? re those fences legal, where they got that one house blocked in I on both sides, the whole length, way out to the front? It's just before you get to Newcomb Street, going towards the City. just b~fore you get to the Church. I didn't see a permit issued. They, like, boxed their, they put, the whole length of their house, felnce. and I think somebody may have bought that. So maybe that's why they I did that. i i MR. THOMAS-Speaking of fences, what about Charlie Wood's e~ght foot prison fence around his hacienda deluxe? I MRS. EGGLESTON-Did we give him that, though, because whtt' s his name, yes, because Jerry Solomon, he wanted that. , MR. MARTIN-I think you did. I think the thing about tha~ is, if you look at an elevation of that house, you've got one elevation here, where this may be eight feet, and this is cement w 11, and it's enclosing a yard over here, where this may be. Ii e, five feet. He's got a terraced yard there. I , MRS. EGGLESTON-I know Jerry Solomon wanted protection bet~een his house and theirs. I i I I MR. TURNER-As long as we're talking about fences, you know,l the new proposal is to put the fence right on the property 1 ine, i sl it not? I MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. TURNER-On the road side. MR. CARVIN-It doesn't sound good. MR. TURNER-No, it doesn't. MR. MARTIN-They had a five foot separation distance in there, then it went to three, then it went to none. i i MR. THOMAS-There's one sitting on West Mountain Road li~e that. It's been there all summer. Some guy buil t a fence rig~t along West Mountain Road, right along the highway property linel' a four foot fence. I I I - 17 - --------1-- ....., MRS. EGGLESTON-See that's what hurts us, because people do that, and it stays there and then other people come and ask. and you tell them no. MR. MARTIN-Yes, but Joyce, there does come a time, though~ that if you have so many cases around Town where the law's being yiolated, maybe the law isn't right. I MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. but everybody should be playing under the same rules. MR. TURNER-You can't mean to tell me that he can drive aro nd Town, I can drive around Town, they can drive around Town, and w can see them all, even though we're si tting right here. Joyce, are you talking the one above Inspiration Park? There's a house right above the road cut. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-The guy's fenced his property all the way in. get a permit for that? Did he MR. MARTIN-That's Charles Adams. MRS. EGGLESTON-So what. Did he get a permit? MR. MARTIN-Yes. He got a permit. I just know who it is. It doesn't matter who it, I'm just saying the name. MRS. EGGLESTON-He has a permit? MR. MARTIN-Yes. he has a permit. and he's already been to d to cut it down, because it's too high. MRS. EGGLESTON-What, he got a permit, and then he built t other than what the permit gave him? MR. MARTIN-Right. Joyce, I want you to come and work at this for a month. You make it sound like that's, you'd be surprised how much that happens. He didn't build what the permit said he should do? This is the real world. MRS. EGGLESTON-Just like I said tonight. of his garage right on the road. This guy is ! I 1 I . Oper¡tlng out MR. MARTIN-Somebody garages. in the, deed restriction I restrict~on. I I I I against retached I He MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's a violation of the deed went right out, three weeks later. MR. CARVIN-Built it. MRS. EGGLESTON-He withdrew it, yes. I like my second ~eeting. He withdrew i tl. I 1 I I I I Zon~ng file file!d for a I MR. CARVIN-I remember, I was on the Board, the guy came in. it never came to a vote. MR. CARVIN-Then he went back and built it. MR. MARTIN-I traced the files out. I traced off the and the Zoning Permi t fi Ie. Three weeks later he building permit and built it. MRS. EGGLESTON-They gave him the building permit? ! I I 1 How did hie 'I ! I I MR. MARTIN-The reason why it was in for variance was because get a MR. TURNER-Yes, but under what circumstance? building permit? it was - 18 - over 900 square feet, okay, so he came back for bUildilg permit with one under 900 square feet, but still a detached ga age. It didn't violate the Ordinance anymore, but violated he deed restrictions. We have no say over deed restrictions. nder 900 square feet, meets the setbacks, he just violated the deed restriction. ¡ MRS. EGGLESTON-But did he already have an attached gara e? This was an additional building, wasn't it? So that means h has two garages? And you're only allowed 900 square feet in ga age? So how do they get by that? MR. MARTIN-I don't know. Ask Pat Crayford. MISS HAUSER-Jim, who has to enforce deed restrictions? MR. CARVIN-That's the bone of contention. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. MARTIN-It's a civil matter. MR. CARVIN-It's a civil matter, but you see, it's not a civil matter, because we predicated the subdivision that, a cþuple of months ago, when Mike O'Connor came in for Phase II, that ~hey have to have the same deed restrictions as ours. yet, we have~a guy in violation. So now it becomes a question that the Town can enforce, if the same guy went out in Phase II and did the same thing, the Town could enforce it, even though the Phase I sectio is not enforceable. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Theodore Turner, Chairman - 19 -