1988-06-21 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
JUNE 21, 1988
6:03 P.M.
Mi:MBERS PRESENT:
Mr. Stephen Borgos-Supervisor
Mrs.Mnrilyn Potenza-Councilnrnn
Mr. Ronald Alontesi-C'oumcilnnn
Mrs.Betty Monahan-Councilman
�Ir. Paul 1)wvk-'i`own Attorticy
III' IBERS AiISENT:
hIr. George Kurosaka-Councilman
OF ALi EIGiANCE Li:D BY TOWN CLERK DARLEEN M. DOUGILER
PUBLIC IIEARING
NOTiCE BROWN
WEST MOUNTAIN VILLAGES INC. PUD
Supervisor Borgos- I call this Special Meeting of the Town Board to order and have our Town Clerk
Darleen Rougher lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. (Pledge) We apologize
for the hot humid evening if we had the power to correct that, we would not
he here, we would all be somewhere else and not worried about these issues.
With the exceptions to the Attorneys in the Audience you are all welcome to
take off you jackets and be more comfortable, the Attorneys are being paid so
much per hour and extra for sport coats. The purpose of tonights meeting is
to conduct a public hearing on the proposal of West Mountain Villages application
to construct a PUD, Planned Unit Development, in Queensbury and the Town
of Lake L,uzerne. The Queensbury Town Board is technically the lead agency
in this action and this request, and tonight we are conducting a public hearing
here and tomorrow night it will be in the Town of Lake Luzerne at the Leke
Luzerne Town hall, conducting a public hearing there. I believe tomorrow nights
meeting is at 7:30. I have a few guidelines I would like to follow, I do not have
with me the script I normally read, as closely as I could remember it, I wrote
out the guidelines so that this public hearing would be conducted the same
our other public hearings have been conducted. If you wish speak this even;
please make sure that you come to the microphone first there are a couple
them around. Please state your name, address and if you so desire the name
of the organization that you represent, there may be some of those people here.
Please stick to the topic, be as brief as possible, written items will be. ok, or
rend a short statement that is fine, we would appreciate it if you wound condense
any prepared statements but if you so desire to read the entire thing you may.
tV'e will take comments in any order, whether for or against i have no way of
knowing, sitting here, who wishes to speak which way on this particular issue.
The same situation occurred the last time we conducted a meeting although
I do recognize some faces and know some names I have no idea how you feel
about this particular issue. As your hands go up I will recognize you, and from
this angle probably just by the color of your arm or pointing to you I will apologize
for that also. We are looking for comments only, we do not expect to present
any answers tonight, we do not expect a debate, again we have not been doing
that in the past, the last meeting without debate Lasted about four hours. Based
on the representation I see here this evening my guess is that we will be here
probably two hours or a little bit longer. There is no preconceived time limit
we will stay here as long as it takes so that everyone may be heard. if it should
go past 7:30 and there looks like there are a lot of comments left we will take
a break at 7:30. 1 would ask that we have one comment from each person first
before you have a second shot at it. If after the first time you wish to say
something else before I recognize you the second time I will ask for additional
first time comments from other people. With those rules in mind, I hope
can have a successful evening. I hope that the topic is discussed thorough]
warn you that as it gets dark the misquotes tend to be attracted to the li, s
in this room, we were nearly carried off last tirne but we did survive. I 1 ve
been asked by the Developer, if they could have a few minutes to make a brief
presentation, we permitted that the last time with the Earltown Corp. and I
see no reason why we cannot do that this time. It is not the developers intention
during or after the presentation to answer any questions about it rather just
to do this. There will be a fancy backdrop thorough the discussion, I have no
idea what this presentation contains, I have not seen it, we will all join you and
watch it from the front row. I will ask Mr. Krzys I believe is going to do it or
Mr. Brandt,
4"
Mr. Brandt, Mike Brandt who will make the presentation.
If it gets real hot in here will someone open the doors in the back?
Mike Brandt- I am Mike Brandt and I am probably the cause of all this. ...we have put land
together for the most part with a dream I thought we could see a beautiful
development at West Mountain as I discovered the access to the Mountain and
saw what a unique piece of property it was, next to the ski area, I felt that it
could be developed first class and do a real nice project. This has been going
on for some twenty ,years, assembling the land while we were operating* the ski
area. One of the criteria we made was to find a first c1a 'team, people that
had a. commitment to the land and a commitment to the. community. I really
intend to be here when it is over and I want to be proud of what we did. In that
behalf I found Joe Krzys and after a couple years of discussion we decided that
we had the team and Joe Krzys is here to speak on behalf of the development
team and I am also a member of that team. Joe.
Joseph Krzys- First of all, I would like to thank everybody for coming out on such a hot evening.
We are here to present our Environmental Impact Study which has been given
to the Town of Queensbury and Lake Luzerne. We consider this meeting tonight
to be a very important part of the what we consider a to be a healthy process.
Where the general public has a chance to comment on ideas that we have for
what we believe to be a very sensitive and very exciting development, that we
believe adds to the quality of life that exists in Queensbury and Lake Luzerne.
If I could get the lights off here. We would like to welcome you to the top of
Nest Mountain. The Mountain reaches at the top of what you know as the ski
area and slopes down for several miles to the back of the property in Lake Luzerne.
'The property is larger than the size of the City of Glens Falls and once you reach
the ridge line it is invisible for most areas of both Lake Luzerne and Queensbury.
It has wonderful use and as you can see it is a wonderful piece of property. Tonight
our plan is to give you an introduction as to what we are doing. We have run
our own three public hearings on West Mountain, the first one had about one
hundred people the second a couple hundred people and the third being that of
the neighbors had thirty, thirty-five people. Out of those comments and out
of the comments that we received from the town and other people we changed
our original submittal to the Town and I would like to run through those changes.
Also, I will discuss some environmental issues things that are a concern to anyone
in Queensbury or Lake Luzerne and that is traffic, water, sewer and density.
Finally, I would like to talk about what this development brings to both Queens-bury
and Lake Luzerne. In general we bring orderly planning, we bring a project to
the rest of the region we bring profits to both of the towns and we bring a lot
of fun to its residents. In order to do this we started about a year and a half
ago and started to do some significant research. We started at the level of
planning it required that we understood what the needs were of the communities
that eve were in and also the needs of the development such as this. Some of
the things that we found was that Queensbury according to the Warren County
Planning Commission has a need for approximately five hundred houses a year
between now and the year 2000, also the study showed as far as the secondary
market for all those people that are coming from out of town to visit there is
a need for approximately 15,000 rooms for those people or there will be by the
year 1990. We felt that, with that and with the survey of over a 1000 people
that we did in Glens Falls, Queensbury, all the way down the Albany corridor
the second home market in New York City and that area. What basically happened
was that there is definitely a need or demand for what we are talking about.
We did not create that, it is here and we are responding to that. What are we
planning to do at West Mountain? First of all our plans is to do approximately
2,785 quality homes, they are between the two towns. In planning that, one of
the things that was very important to us is 'that we are sensitive to the
environment. West Mountain is a beautiful piece of land we do not want to destroy
it with buildings. We are only building on 12% of the land that exists on the top
of the mountain. That means that when we take all the roads, all the buildings,
all the concrete and the construction that goes on we are only building on 345
acres of the 2800 acres that we have. Of that there are about 345, no 450 acres
of recreational land and the rest of the land 2,000 acres is open land as it exists
today. Part of what we discovered when we did our research was that the residents
of West Mountain wanted certain other amenities to exist there. At the top
of the mountain in about a three acre commercial area they have a group of
restaurants and shopping, amphi theatre and out door type theatre a carousel
an ice rink. In addition to the three acre down town we have plans for aroma
center, a hotel of about 250 units and we put together our own institute with
school and that is all privately funded. In addition to that we plan for 37 million
dollars worth of recreational
activity all.of this is open to the public. Some of this is a private, for example
a private golf course but anyone that lives in the Towns of Queensbury or Lake
Luzerne can belong to the club it is not for residents only. In addition to what
you already know through the West Mountain Ski Area we plan to improve the
ski area, we plan to put in biking and hiking trails, cross country ski trails,
equestrian center, a tennis complex with a small tennis stadium. We have heard
R lot of comments about the fact we were pursuing Volvo tennis tournament
most of the comments were negative about the impact on the Town this is not
a stadiurn for a Volvo tennis tournament this is in fact a small stadium for
exhibitions. 'There are three golf courses, we have it park primarily for children
and is open to the public. I would like to run through some of the changes in
our original master plan, originally had, right where you see the Rueensb1!r
Lake Luzerne Line we had, and there is a little piece that juts out, under
QBY. in Queensbury we plan to have a major access road into the developmf;
That access road would tie into Lake Luzerne Road and we got several cornme
about that, some negative, some positive. What we decided however, was that
we want to put in our major road starting on the Lake Luzerne side of the property
and because of some comments we got at our own public hearings we decided
to put in n loop road. Someone made a comment that if we had a single road
going in and if a tree fell down we would have problems with emergencies. We
agree with that and decided to put in a loop road concept. In Queensbury and
Take Luzerne just so you have a sense of how much land we have in each town
we have 593 acres of land in Queensbury and 2192 acres in Lake Luzerne. Our
current plan calls for 273 units of housing in the Town of Queensbury. our second
change in the Master Plan was to eliminate all the housing and hotel use at the
bottom of the mountain where the ski area currently is. The original master
plan called for 125 hotel units and several housing villages of two to three hundred
houses. That has been eliminated the total development now is at the top of
the mountain. Another change was to build a fire station up front, one of the
concerns that was expressed to its as well as our own concern was that there
be adequate fire protection for emergency protection at the top of the mountain.
Our plan is to build a fire station that would, we will have to figure out how,
who it will be dedicated to but primarily it is a fire station and it will be built
at the beginning of the project. Another thing, has to do with the road that enter.
from Luzerne Mountain Road and ran into the foot of the development, we can
see the little line up there representing that road. There are differences of opinion
about whether that should be, purely be, an emergency exit or whether is ou-1"
to be a primary road out of the development, not primary, our primary ro:
are in Lake Luzerne, it ought to be an access road out of the development.
think no matter what happens with the road we will be in agreement with wn
ever the two towns decide. So that is an initiative we would like to here from
you about today. In terms of the master plan being instead of having a .huge
tennis facility we decided just to do a small exhibition type tennis facility.
Probably the item that has been the most controversial is the density that we
have in Queensbury, originally we put in for five hundred and ninety three units
the units that were allocated to us it would have doubled the existing units
tiler, we would have had, under the existing zoning. Instead what we have gone
back to is the original zoning of two hundred and seventy, three units. Now in
that two hundred and seventy three units there also, there is a formula that also
includes hotel units in that. So we are not talking about two hundred and seventy
three houses we are talking about two hundred and seventy three units according
to the existing formulas that exists in the Town of Queensbury. In choosing the
environmental issues, there is the issue of traffic, this also is a concern to us.
The Towr► has just had a traffic study done and it shows that Corinth Road would
have to be widen to a four lane road in the environmental impact study our analysis
was that at a point in time our development would required that Corinth Road
would become a four lane road. Our study is consistent with the traffic study
that the Town already has. In terms of sewer, there are three options that are
represented. All of them work, they.are viable from an environmental standpoint
one is a tertiary system on the property and have the effluent flow into streams
on the property, another is to tie into the Glens Falls System, to put a sewer
system through West Queensbury and the third option is put a secondary treat m'
plant in Lake Luzerne very close to the entrance to the property, that plan ca
out of a comments made by one of the..engineers for one of the towns that reviev,
our DEIS. In terms of the land itself, we have wetlands and we do not need to
touch those, we have so much land we do not need to touch those so the second
point is that our environmental impact study shows that there are no endangered
plant or animal species and it shows that we have good soils for buildings in a
nature control. In terms of what this is compared with other PUD's that have
been presented to the Town, IBland has been approved for 1157 units approximately
1.5 units per acre, Earltowns proposal is for 877 units approximately ... units
per acre" and our proposal is for 273 units or .47 units per acre. We bring some
herrefits to the Town. Ive have spent a great deal of time planning this so we have given a tremendous
asset to the Town. We think our plan is very forward thinking it is a totally planned
community it is away from the area where the population growth has been and
it has addressed the second home market. Many of the developments that have
been proposed here have all been targeted to the first home market and there
are not many that offer anything to a second home market. We went out to
address that market from the beginning. In terms of working for a region, we
create a large number of high quality jobs. In some of the areas that we have
at West Mountain there was a great deal of people that commented about the
young people, that do not have job opportunities here, high quality job opportunities
here, they go away to school and go someplace else to work. The other comments
were aimed at those people that are underemployed in the region and I believe
would be very happy to have a job that offer them more opportunities. We become
j one of the largest employers in the area with this project. If you were to look
jat it as a business we would be a thirty nine hundred person employer in this
region both directly and indirectly with the jobs that it would create. We provide
a lot of opportunities not only for young people but for underemployed people
in the area. Part of what we are doing is serving the public in a high hospitality
way and that/requires a tremendous amount of job training which we will are
doing within our own organization. Besides working for the region .. we are putting
in 37 million dollars worth of recreational facilities, we are having schools and
institutes available at the Mountain for the people to use. We have a wide range
of quality houses, high quality does not mean high cost. Our plan is to build high
quality very good houses. We planned our development so that people that live
in Queensbury could afford a house in our environment just a well as a second
home buyer that comes out of New York City. What we tried to do is create
a total community that meets all housing needs of this area. Finally, what we
gain from this is a whole bunch of increased entertainment for people and
educational programs. What we gain to, in terms of employment to, with this
project we are building approximately 1,025 construction jobs per year once we
get started. So When the project is completed we have direct jobs at the
development and resort of 1,768 jobs and indirect jobs of 1,131 jobs. What that
means as a result of this development being that other kinds of services will
be needed in the Queensbury, Lake Luzerne area and typically what happens
Is that other business start uo that are not our businesses. What is the profit
to the towns? One of the things that happens with a development such as ours,
where it is aimed partially at a second home community is that people use the
property pay the normal taxes but don't reap the tax benefits. In the environmental
impact study we had to calculate what is the real benefits to the town and what
does it cost the town for us to be in a development. We will generate when the
-- project is built out for the Town of QUeensbury approximately 2.1 million dollars
a year in taxes and for the Town of Lake Luzerne 8 million dollars in tax revenue.
What this translates into which is more important is a net profit to the towns
above and beyond the tax income when you subtract out the cost of the public
services for this development and you subtract that from the tax revenues
generated annually Queensbury will have a surplus as the result of this project
of 1.6 million a year and the Town of Lake Luzerne will have 6.1 million per year.
What we also bring is economic buying power thtit is stimulated by this resort.
We create a whole new opportunity for local business. The economic spin off
of two hundred and sixty five million dollars a year when this is completed this
comes as a result of the people that are living there and using the resort of a
104 million a year of construction of about 70 million a year and hotels of 66
million a year sports activities of 29 million per year and skiing of 2 million per
year. What this means is that for every dollar spent in the region for example
someone buys food at the hotel, that dollar is spent to give to the supplier in
the region and the dollar is circulated so two hundred and sixty five million dollars
is spent in the local economy, that was our study. The Town of Lake Luzerne
took the study and gave it to an independent consultant an economist to evaluate
that to determine if in fact we are accurate with our statement part of his
comments were that the economics in the statement are excellent the assumptions
for all economic estimates and forecasts are realistic and in most cases,
conservative, in otherwords he is saying that he expects that we will have a larger
effect on the economy that what we predicted. Finally, I think we are going
to reach a whole lot of fun for a whole lot of people that live here. We got
entertainment at the mountain, we have restaurants, we have recreation one
of the things that is most important to us is that we open up a piece of land that
no one is using right now at the top. There are some unbelievable views from
the top there are some great nature trails, no one uses these right now. We access
natural beauty with this project. ...we will have golf, tennis, riding and all of
this is open to the general public. In closing what West Mountain is all about
is trim sensitive, well planned rural community providing orderly growth for
the future, that is a concern as you know of the Towns of Queensbury and Lake
Luzerne and it also is a concern of
ours. Thank you for allowing us to present this.
Supervisor Borgos- Anyone still awake from the heat? The presentation was good. Dana would
you open those doors please. Thank you. As I mentioned earlier we are happy
to receive statements now, either for or against the project as set forth in the
DEIS, Draft Environmental Impact Statement. If you want to make a general
comment related to the project I am sure will be acceptable also. We have a
very open and free form of government in this town we are willing to listen to
any comments that anyone would like to make, as long as it is somehow related
to this topic. Who would like to be first please raise you hand and I will recognize
you and come up. Yes, Sir, please state you name and address. —,
i
I
Daniel Mead- 'Thank you Mr. Borgos and Members of the Board, my name is Daniel Mead ark
I am here with my wife Chris and we live in Mike Brandt's West Mountain
Development, North West Road. I can walk from my house up to the top of the
hill probably about a thousand linear feet maybe it's seven hundred feet above
me vertical. We have been residents of the Town of Queensbury about four and
n half years, I moved tip from Schenectady I am a lawyer, my coat is off, I am
not getting paid by anybody and I am retired. I am just speaking here as a local
resident. My folks have lived in Queensbury for thirtyfive years and my brother
has been here for ten or twelve years. I moved to Queensbury because it offered
its the advantage of being near the wilderness of the lakes the streams the Hudson
River is right down the hill from us it is clean now and we love it here. We also
expected that when we came here that there would be development and we hoped
that there would be development in a good rational form and that the local Town
Board and other government agencies would do their best to see that it was done
well. Now, I am here to speak in favor of the project. I have known Mike Brandt
for a number of years, I am a avid skier and I like the ski area and of course
other ski areas too. When he talked to us about this proposal I thought it was
wonderful, I have been to the top of the hill I do not know how many times, not
just for exercise but to walk around up there and see the views. For those of
you who have not been up there it is something that many of you would pay many
dollars at a resort to go to the top of the mountain and look around. I studied
his proposals and it seems to me that they are well in keeping with what we have
up there. He had some flags up the other day marking the little commercial
area and it is not going to be seen by anybody except those people right arourx
it in the woods. You are not going to see it from the Corinth side down by t11
river you cannot see anything at all from the Glens Falls side except if the
have a few houses along the ridge you may see something there. It does not
seem to me to be unreasonable. I may be speaking for, I am not speaking for
anybody officially, but in all of these cases there are a certain number of people
who do not come to the meetings and speak in favor of the Board, or the Planning
Cornmission for what they are trying to do for the town. I have been one of
those and there are probably thousands of them in this area. I may be speaking
for some of these people and I expect that the Board in their wisdom will do
what is right provide these developments this one and all the others that are
before the Board...
Supervisor Borgos- If anyone feels an overwhelming desire to applaud at somepoint, feel free to
do that it is good exercise. Would anyone else like to speak?
Thomas Diehl- I am Thomas Diehl from Lake Luzerne and I am a Councilman on the Lake Luzerne
Board. As you might well realize after the slide presentation and looking at
the map that eight or nine times the development will be in Lake Luzerne as
is in Queensbury. So, being concerned with all aspects of this development we
did have an economic study done by Peter Prosper from the Department of
Economics, at Union College. This is not our only concern as was sewers and
traffic and soforth, but I would make a couple of comments from his statement.
He has examined carefully reports of other recreational proposals, Quaker Ridge
which is Earltown, Marina Del Mar, and Cros River Development. This is wo
thought out and well done at least equal if not superior to other statement,
The assumptions for all economic estimates and forecasts are realistic and,
most cases, conservative. I will try on one other section, the section on taxes
is excellent and needs no adjustment. Based on other assumptions and forecasts,
the tax revenue estimates are right on the mark. I would like to give this to
the Board and see that it is attached to the DEIS of the developers.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you very much we will make that part of the record. We will look forward
to seeing you tomorrow night.
f
Philip Buttling- My name is Philip Buttling, I live on Bonner Drive in Queensbury. Prior to that
I lived for eighteen, fourteen years on West Mountain Road, in a brown ranch,
thanks to Joe Krzys, I could not sell my house for a year or so, and he came along
and said something to the effect you better get out, or I will kick your ass out
I am going to give you money right now and I said great. With that money Joe
I opened up a retail business, a jewelry store, so I am kind of out here with a
something to gain and concern on the other hand. I own a retail store at Route
9 and 149, if these people that are going to buy homes and live in this area are
going to head north for sure they got to go past my store and that makes we
really happy because I will be walking to the bank. I have a concern not that
I am against, but I have a concern about basically two issues that I see could
be a problem. I was a fireman a number of years ago and unfortunately I climbed
_ a ladder and Mr. Borgos is smiling and Mr. Borgos was there, I climbed the ladder
with an ax in my hand to break a window the next thing I know I got knocked
off the ladder falling two stories. Something happened that I didn't learn and
I said uhn-uhn this is not for me. I give a lot of credit to volunteer firemen,
which leads me to one of my concerns. We are speaking about 3000 on the top
of the mountain we are talking about 3900 people working in that area, Joe,
You missed something about a fire station, having been a volunteer fireman and
not being as experienced or trained as I should be, I question as to how or who
is going to man this fire station at the top of the mountain. We are talking very
serious, lives involved and I hope that at sometime you are going to address this
issue. I mean not necessarily just with words and adjectives but I understand
you use the words high quality this is all wonderful, when it gets down to the
nitty gritty Joe, and Mike, you also understand what I am saying, you have got
to present a detailed plan explaining who is going to control the fire station how
are they going to get paid and nothing other than detailed facts. OK. I will pass
over on that, the next area of concern that I have is the traffic. I do not know
mileage, but I know to get from the Ski area to Exit 16 I believe is one route
that was spoken about and the other route could be Exit 20 now there is my concern
as a homeowner not a retail store owner. The traffic on Gurney Lane and West
Mountain Road is a two lane road the traffic right now is bearable, we can handle
it, I am wondering and asking the Board how will the handle the traffic in and
out. l am sure the two hundred"arid fifty mile radius concerns, people down south
of where we are, people north are hestitating to down to Queensbury with the
traffic on Quaker Road. I am concern as to what the development or plans you
have for these roads. I guess that is basically it, I will just give you this last
word with you and Mike and everyone connected with it. There is an article
in today about politics, and Joe Krzys I met you a year ago and you told me about
where you had been and what you had done and you are not a native of this area
most of the people are, I am not. I have come to love this area and I do not know
about politics having anything to do with getting this passed or not, come up
with a good plan, be precise and lets not just talk and make promises, have gone
through that, what I am saying lets get it down on paper which I know, will have
to be done, but work out a plan where we will all live good and we will make
money. Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you Mr. Buttling. We are not going to answer, but just to let you know
the subject of fire has been discussed many times between myself and the
developers and I am sure it will be taken care of, traffic is of interest. Please
be assured that as far as the Queensbury Town Board is concerned there is no
political involvement and there won't be. Thank you. Next comment, next speaker.
Martha Shepard- My name is Martha Shepard, I live on ?-Stephanie Lane. About ten years ago
while I was in your marketing class a friend of mine.
Supervisor Borgos- I apologize for not recognizing you.
Martha Shepard- A friend and I decided to drive to Corinth and on the way my friend and I were
discussing where we would like to live someday, being from this area of Iludson
Falls, Glens Falls, Queensbury I told here I would like to live around West Mountain
or the Ridge Road because it is quite and woodsey and I liked it. I ended tip on
Stephanie Lane, I never dreamt they would make it a four lane highway out of
Corinth Road. I have a seven year old son who attends Queensbury School I have
to walk him to the bus stop and back everyday because it is so dangerous already,
without this going up. That is about all I wanted to say I am really opposed to
this idea, 1 am not retired and I lived here all my life. Though I ... here thirty
years I am not a Lawyer and I do not have suit coat on but my sister is a lawyer.
Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos- I am Looking for a hand, way in the back, Sir?
Mnrk lloffnian- My name is Mark Roffman soon to be of Bonner Drive. I have a mnnber of concerns
about the project but I think that my number one concern has to do with the
traffic and the perspective that I bring to this is a former resident of Queens,
New York City. I can tell you growing up there having been born there and spent
the first sixteen years of my life there that it was always a busy place but it
became expectantly more busy as people began moving out to Long Island from
various other places. Queens really stopped being a community, stopped being
a final destination and eventually became a place that you go through in order
to get to Long Island. It was particularly devastating to people who lived there
and in many cases lived on or near a major thoroughfare and there ,are so many
major thoroughfares there that virtually everybody lives near one that the traffic_
impact of having all those people travelling through your community to get 1
where they want to go just totally destroyed your quality of life. It makes
impossible for you kids to go out and play in the street it makes it impossib:.J
to get some piece and quiet at night, it causes air pollution it is detrimental
to health and the people that were moving out on Long Island didn't much care
about that because they were way out there and they did not have to worry about
all the people that they had to drive past in order to get where they were going.
You will have to excuse me if I have this feel nothing again but de-ja-vu with
this same kind of thing. If you think West Mountain is going to be the last project
it is not, there is going to be more and more after that until we reach a point
where Queensbury is no longer a desirable place to live and then we will no longer
be able to attract any people to buy second homes here any longer. I should
also say, I believe strongly in trying to maximize free enterprise trying to
maximize freedom of choice. I would like if possible for everybody to use their
property to the very maximum of potential that they can possibly can, but I also
feel that you have to give due consideration to the rights of people that are going
to be effected by your project. I just think you have to look at more growth
picture. The other thing in reference to this specific project is if we were making
the statement that we are going to provide a desperately needed housing or
something that is of desperate need to this community, sure we could say well
it may cause inconvenience or discomfort to a few people but really what we
nre tniking about is providing. second homes to a number of people who nre
predominately corning from outside, you are basically providing them a luxury
play ground in Queensbury and I do not feel any ethical, moral or philosophical
obligation to do that. I think what we have to do is decide what is in the best_
interest of the people of Queensbury.
John Cordes- My name is John Cordes I live in Queensbury for thirty years. I was very interestc.
in what this gentlemen just said before I moved up here I-lived for twenty years
in a place called the Garden City on Long Island. People that he is referring
to pouring through Queens in that direction I can understand what he is saying.
Carden City is a pristine community today when I lived there, there were 13000
people and today they have 25, it is completely built tip. But never any commercial
establishment allowed to grow it was a residential area, it has it points. I too
believe in free use of your- property but I do not think our officials should encourage
that sort of thing. I do not believe that we want to promote people coming into
this area. They just, they want to make money, people want to make money
to attract people here but I do not think we should to discharge them but I do
not think we should encourage them. I think it is a good project on paper it looks
very good. One other thing I would like to point out is that a very low amount
of tax revenue comes to Queensbury and I have not heard anyone say who is going
to pay for the widening of Corinth Road to four lanes and maybe, I did not think
about using Exit 20 but widening West Mountain to four lanes. Is there any
financial ...been mentioned can that be mentioned by someone I would like an
answer to that.
Supervisor Borgos- At some point all the comments from tonights will be tape recorded and prepared
in written form then the developer will have to address each of the questions
and concerns that have been raised tonight.
John Cordes- 1 think this is a much better project than the other one that is under consideratic E
now by far. I think we are missing one point though that we have golf course
they have too many around here, it is an old mans sport we need something for
young people. I think that they need a good racket ball complex up there it is
cheaper to build than a golf course.
Supervisor I3orgos- Thank you.
Maryann Potter- l am Maryann Potter and I live on Boulderwood Drive in Queensberry. I have
been around here a long time. I lived in Glens Falls for fifty three year and we
have lived in Queensbury for seven. I was of the opinion that I found my little
piece of land I did not want anyone else to come in. But I realize that planned
development is probably the best way to do it. This is an excellent development
and the Northway has opened this area up so that people are going to come here
anyway and we will either have hap-hazard building and people moving in or
planned development. I think this development is great. I am all for it.
Supervisor Borgos Thank you very much. Mr. Cushing.
Jack Cushing- My name is Jack Cushing and 1 live on Orchard Drive in the Town of Queensbury
and I would like to make a few brief comments regarding the West Mountain
project. The presentation by the developers tonight took away a lot of the steam
that I had in my remarks so I will keep them very brief, but it was an excellent
presentation he gave us all a little bit better view of what is going on up there.
First of all this project has been explained to me several times and I have visited
Ti
the West Mountain site, where the project is to be built and I did go to the top
of the mountain and saw the views from there. I can assure you that this is a
quality development. One of the best that I have ever studied one of the best
that I have seen. The Queensbury and the Glens Falls area cannot stand pat
on development. Development is the life blood of any community in any place
in the United State and believe me I have seen some towns that are boarded
up today in the mid west that would not want anymore development. They did
not want it, they do not have development they don't have anything at this
particular point in time. Development, planned development is the life blood
of any community and you cannot escape it. From an economic point of view
this project will bring many jobs and dollars to this area and it will go far in
keeping the Glens Falls area unemployment low. In developing this property
we will see a minimum in construction over 1000 construction jobs both directly
and indirectly for over fifteen years and when completed we will see over fifteen
hundred permanent jobs created in this complex. With salaries, just salaries
of the people working there well over Sixty Millions of Dollars annually. These
are just a few of the viable economic facts of this project. The project managers
themselves have been open have been flexible and have gone along with many
of the points made by Queensbury and Luzerne and the environmental groups.
They have made every attempt to accommodate the wishes of others and have
scaled down the total project. So that today we have a realistic and quality
vision for the future. Now, I know there are concerns as far as traffic and density
and the environment are concerned but if we put our heads together and if we
use the common sense that God gave to us I am sure we will be able to develop
and over come many of the concerns that we have. I would urge the Queensbury
Town Board to view this project favorably.
w
Supervisor Borgos- Thank Nrnii. Mr. Burrell
Margaret Burrell- I am Margaret Burrell who lives on Lynnfield Drive in Queensbury. I must say
that I came with grave reservations about the whole idea and what I have heard
presented by the West Mountain project has overcome a number or those
reservations. Certainly planned development is far better than the topsy type.
Like many of you that have spoken already I am concerned about traffic in
particular and one other issue that I haven't heard addressed tonight but it repeats
a song I have sung before else we are already over taxing our existing facilities
for waste disposal. I wonder whether we can have a quality development if you
are going to be chocked in our own refuse.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you very much. Who would like to be number 10.
Bob Link- Bob Link, I live on Forest Lane and I have many of the concerns that have been
stated here I would like to add that it might be worthwhile for those that. are
concern about the project to review some of the positive and negative impacts
of major recreation resort developments that are not too far away, Vermont,
New lampshire have had a blossoming of these developments over the recent
years, many expansions such as the Killington expansion and while you hear a
lot of positive things about them you will also be reading in the Rutland herald
and other papers about a lot of the quality of life concerns and changes in the
way people have to live because of the recreation resorts and it would be
worthwhile to review those proposals and the ones that have been carried out
to see what other people are dealing with before this area is committed into
the same kind of thing. That is just a suggestion, I think you can, there are plenty
of contacts in New Hampshire and Vermont that I and other people could give
you as to those citizens that are concerned about that sort of proposal.
Supervisor Borgos Thank you, Sir.
SO4
Brian Harrison- I am going to the back microphone to be with the crowd. I lived here 12 years
Supervisor Borgos- Sir, may I have your name and address please?
Brian larrison- My name is Brian Harrison, I live at 329 Ridge Road in the Town of Rueensbury.
I moved here 12 years ago from the Albany area unlike many other people here,
my family owns property in the Adirondacks and they have been traveling through
the Glens Falls, Queensbury area for generations. I always looked at it, gee,
this is someplace I would really like to go. Twelve years ago, the Warren County
Planning Board made the County Planning position available and I was fortunate
enough to be selected. I think at that point I figured I was culminating a drear—
the place that I was driving through was now a place that I was going to live
I got up here and got a very detailed look at everything that was going on ii__J
the area of land use and planning and as you know I worked for many years with
the Town and eventually served on the Town Planning Board when we adopted
the former zoning ordinance. One of the first things that I noticed when analyzing
the town in behalf of the Planning Board was that there was a very large amount
of land that was owned just south of the blue line up on West Mountain and I
discovered who owned the land, I went to see him, and said Mr. Brandt what
are you doing with all this land? It is very uncharastic of what you would otherwise
find, if YOU look at where most everybody in this room lives they live on parcels
of land which were sold and developed in small pieces and hap-hazardly. You
cannot resist the small subdivision, its there is comes in you have the best that
you can do, maybe get a little green space out of it, you get culdesac after
culdesac everyone of the Planning Board Members will tell you it cost the town
more money to service that kind of development than you can ever possibly get
from it. It is the kind of thing that when you see a piece of land like this it gets
you excited, your blood starts to boil. I have been walking,and skiing, cross country
skiing that is, that property for the last twelve years. Now, I must say, except
when I drag people up there with me no one else was ever there. It is a truly
exceptional piece of land it is truly beautiful and if offers an incredible opportunity
to the community. If you want to look at what can be done without encapsulating
n large piece of property and exerting something like a planned unit development
control on it, just look at what has happened west of the Northway until you
get to the base of West Mountain. Now, if you look at what can possibly take
place between there in fact the Hudson River in the Town of Luzerne you hav<--
the best most extensive opportunity that I know exists anywhere in '1 +
Adirondacks. I truly mean that. I think that what you have here is so many nea!
opportunities, you have the Town of Luzerne working with the Town of Rueensbury
to solve problems together. The problems that exist on Luzerne Mountain Road
existed long before Mike Brandt decided to do all this or long before he knew
lie wanted to put a development up there. The problems exist on Corinth Road,
exist today not because of what he plans to do but because of all this things that
have happened without our ability to control them. Ile offers you an opportunity,
Mr. Krzys and the rest of the team, I am not a member, offers the opportunity
for you to truly get something out of this that meets your demands and listen
to and address some of those demands. Back at when I looked at the Adirondack
Park Agency and the Blue Line one of the loudest voices in opposition to the
Park at the time was Mr. Brandt. When he became Supervisor of the Town of
Rueensbury, I said Mike, I like these folks at Raybrook I want you to come up
and sit down and talk with them. lie thought I was nuts. I took him up there
and when ,we came back, the Adirondack Park Agency and the Department of
State of New York funded the zoning effort that included densities far in excess
Of what you had at that time, all over the town. When you look at what he was
formerly zoned on the Mountain it was one acre and he was one of the least dense
area, the least dense areas in the entire town. I went to him and we sat down
and went over densities and you know he agreed to this three acre thing and
I can remember with the Planning Board and the dialogue we had going back
at that time. I think he did it more on fate because we had spent so much time
trying the sell him the idea of really getting into the idea of resource conservation.
I think Ile feels that it came back to bite him a little bit, when he came in and
wanted us to do 550 plus units up there and you known you look at that and saN,
well lie has another 2700 what is the big deal you can be blase' about that YOLLJ
cannot be blase' about it. Some of the real prime property with the real best
views where the real profit potential is, is on the Queensbury .land and he just
watched 250 some odd units march out the door that I think he was counting
on. Well, what is he doing, he is respecting the Zoning wish he is respecting
the desire of the Town that dates back to the late 70's and early 801s. Ile is doing
that when if you look at the environmental issues that we are confronting if
you look at the impact on traffic and public safety if you look at the visual-impacts
what you can do with development along that ridge we do see a number of units
are really going to impact that. You go and give me a traffic study on, even
if we were to remove a net 300 units from the project if you were to do a traffic
impact study on 2500 units on this joint project in the Town of Queensbury, the
Town of Luzerne. If you were to do a joint traffic impact on that with the former
density and the density he is proposing now would you see any difference? When
you look at the kinds of things that you can do to preserve the visual character
of what you see from the Northway as what you see when you are looking at
the Northway from there. You have this enormous opportunity. When I drive
into the Town of Queensbury from the South and it is during the day or night
tyre most prominent things that you see are lite up bill boards and signs along
the strip area where again we lost our ability to control. During the winter time
and even what you see when you come up the Northway which is sometimes really
sort of gives you a feeling about, you see Mt. McGregor you have the lights you
see West Mountain you see some of the things that are not always natural in
their form at night but still is something that represents a home coming to you.
Well, you know, now I am here, I am here permanently I am working in the
community, I am working unfortunately on a project outside the community
doing a lot of different things. I look at a development like West Mountain and
I look at some of the other developments and how would you preserve a major
wetland off Quaker Road if you didn't have somebody who came in and bought
the whole property, and then set out to do something about it. I do not mean
to comment on that proposal because I, really, that is not the purpose. But the
same thing goes for this slopes for the visual characteristic that are associated
with this particular piece of property. Ile went and purchased this property
God only knows how many years ago, twenty five years ago or so, with a vision.
What does the vision turn out, what does it grow into what does it evolve into.
It evolved into, it evolves into something for the whole town it becomes
everybodies vision, because everyone feels like they own what they can see.
Now, he is putting something together, I think, which preserves that vision, far
better than it was ever preserved in most of the neighborhoods in this town for
most of the people who would stand up and comment. You know, Alike, I have
known you for years, I consider you a friend and that is another reason that I
come here because it is the integrity of you it is the integrity of Mary it is the
integrity of tine people that wdrk for you that makes me want to do this. I think
this is a supper opportunity and I hope that you take full advantage of it. That
is all I can say.
" rpervisor Borgos-
Thank you very much. Yes, Sir.
—ank Meisel 'Thank you very much I am going to be a little bit nervous
so bear with me. I am a new resident of Queensbury.
Supervisor Borgos- Could we have you name and address for the record?
1'rarrk Rlvi.gcl- Frank Meisel, Qld mill Lane
Srpervisor Borgos Would you spell your name?
Frank Meisel- Meisel, I moved here because of the friendly rural nature of the community and
I have daughter here and that makes a difference too. In contrast to tine area
that I left, they got so congested that it was unbearable, I am not here to take
a positive or negative view point here. I would like to ask what are the legal
ramifications if the Board intends to allow such a thing to happen. Where does
it stop. That is the question I would put. A planned community I think is fine
but where does it stop? Thank you very much for listening.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you, Sir. The answers to your legal questions are fairly lengthy I am sure
we can provide you with copies of the law but essentially we are following the
State Environmental Review Act, Quality Review Act process and as a result
of these hearings and the rest of the public comment period and the things that
have to follow the Board at some point will make a decision either for or against
the Planned Unit Development. After that time the construction and other
activities done inside that development will be strictly controlled. As far as
it goes, when will this stop or other project stops there is very sever and lengthy
process for each one of those items.
Councilman Montesi- Was that the question, where does it stop or are you asking a general question,
where does development stop?
Frank Meisel- Where does development stop.
Councilman Montesi- The over view.
-W4 , ..
Frank Meisel The over view, if a next development comes in with what you have allowed, if
you allow Earltown...
Councilman Montesi- I have addressed that, I have looked at that long and hard too and I do not mean
this is a factitious way, in America the land of opportunity we have to afford
everyone an equal right to either develop their land if they own it or not develop
it. It is all in keeping with some concerns of the public in general it is like the
question how do you stop development, you don't. We do not have any borders
on our Town to put up fences the best that we can do is try and control it so
that it is orderly and probably this is one of the best ways to do it with a planned
unit development. After being on the board for three years and the planning
board for eight years I can only echo the thoughs of Brian Harrison and Joe Krz
that a planned unit development at least gives you and me as a Board Memo
the opportunity to look at every single issue that goes into that developme i'
and to try and control that, to the degree that we are concerned about fire statio't l
we are concerned about sewers and the environment. It is long and lengthy and
cumbersome but when the process is done you have a development that does
succeed and gets the approvals it is going to be a better one if it does not get
the approvals then there was something wrong with it in its inception.
Where it stops I cannot say that we have the right to stop any development or
do we have the right to stop anyone from coming to our town.
Councilman Monahan- May I make a suggestion Sir, the Town is in the process right now of rezoning
the Town and adopting a new master plan, we are going to have a public hearing
on that next week, I suggest that you come to that so you can see what the outlook
for growth in the Town is in the future and what we are trying to do to at least
make sure it is not too hap-hazard and everything. I think you will get some
of your answers at that meeting, about the Town own growth pattern and the
rezoning of the Town.
Frank Meisel- The reason that I am concerned is that I came from an-area, I think it is obvious
to everybody that the people that are coming here from Albany and N.Y. City
or wherever are coming because of the rural friendly nature of the community.
..if there is nny possible way to"way to keep It from changing...
Councilman Monahan- I have lived here all my life and you can imagine the changes I have seen. All
I can say is that all the people that loved to come to Rueensbury for what }
is are actually the problem.
Supervisor Borgos- Number 13 you have no need to be superstitious.
Dorothy liull- My name is Dorothy Hull, I live in Oak Forest on the West Mountain Road.
Suporvisor 13orgos- Would you pull the microphone down, so we can pick it up better on the tape.
I)orothy ]full- My name is Dorothy Hull, we own the Oak Forest property on the West. Mountain
Road. I believe Alike Brandt and we came here just about the same time. When
they bought the farm house up the road and they were going to have a nice little
garden and they loved the mountains and we became good friends over the years
and I hope we are still good friends. But also the line that goes up the Pitcher
Road they are on one side of the line and we are on the other side of the line
so 1 believe that we are as much involved as anybody can be. Mike developed
a ski area, we developed our home into trying to make something beautiful...we
tried real hard we get many complements how beautiful it is...people stop almost
every day, can we buy a few acres, you got all this property you don't need all
this, it is not for sale. I would like to go on record that it will never be for sale.
The developers think that they are going to develop on top of a mountain or what
ever and increase their ski area or what ever they are going to do. Our piece
of property has been in our family since 1790 and I hope the people of Rueensbury
appreciate what we are trying to do to. We are trying to keep a little piece
of the Town that is beautiful, after a while it will all look like Bedford Close.
They gave out all this beautiful information that they are going to do, they wi
going to have a town building we are going to have little bridges we are go,
to have bike paths we are going to have hiking paths, I have that pamphlet I sa�
it over the ,years. What is it, house, after house after house. Where is the little
village hall, where is the town hall where people, neighbors could go and gather
and talk, there is no such thing. ...on out side of the line on the Mountain side
of the line is mostly in the Adirondack Park so we are restricted, it doesn't make
any difference one way or the other because we are not going to do anything
anyway, over on the other side of the line is not restricted with what he can
do. This is hard for me to do this. I like the Brandt's very much I am very
concerned about the traffic, if you go up Bay Road with the Adirondack Community
College
8th'
the first thing you know there are five or six lane of road going up there are
no more trees. Many years ago Bay Road was beautiful, Ridge Road was beautiful,
we used to take rides and go up to the Lake...but they are not beautiful any more.
When we talk about the trees on West Mountain Road already it is so bad when
they decide to put more roads on West Mountain Road, what are they going to
do with our carriage house across the street. Are we going to have to pick it
up and move it back so they can make a four lane road? What issues are they
going to put on us, ....traffic, ... you got to have development I am not against
it but also, when my husband and I took over the property we felt, what is this.
My husband said it is too much take care of, I said it is beautiful and I do not
know what it is, because lie thought it was going to be too much of a responsibility
for us, I said in ten years we will know. In ten years we did know. I have bought
...executive properties in Glens Falls, Queensbury, Hudson Falls, Fort Edward
I have beautiful properties and each one of those properties has a very beautiful
ground...they have one acre lots and in fact just this past weekend I rented a
house in Queensbury, people who originally were frorn here ...they carne from
a situation where you couldn't go out without touching the neighbors house one
side or the other. You couldn't even get a beach but for 100,000 dollars and
this is in north LosAngeles, so they visited his people and his wife said this is
such beautiful country I would like to move here, lets go to Queensbury to live,
so they did and I have just rented them a home and they are so happy. They
have a acre of land it is right near the river it is beautiful they are happy. I
am trying to do something not hurt the Town of Queensbury I am trying to keep
things beautiful here. I hope when you drive by the Oak Forest Property you
realize that we do work hard, to keep it up and our son and his family also live
there, we have four grandchildren that have roots there, they are healthy they
are growing up in a nice environment and we are really truly trying to keep
something a nice piece of Queensbury alive. Please do not kill it with four lane
roads...Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you. Yes, Sir?
T1101ntis liicobq- (food evening, my name is Td'm Jacobs, I live In Glens Falls. if I throw a rock
good 1 can hit Queensbury so I am a near neighbor but a resident of the City.
I have been watching the Ski area on West Mountain Road ever sense its first
year when Mary and Mike and his brothers Paul, Claude, Lorraine put up a few
rope tows on the Mountain and they bootstrapped that ski area from nothing
into what is one of the finer smaller ski resorts in the United States today. It
is a great mountain for skiers and it has done an awful lot for this community.
Young people have gone to college on full scholarships thr"ough the sport of skiing,
it is a recreation that we have all loved and enjoyed. I recall Bobby Jo Hansen
who used to live in Oak Forest the place that the previous speaker was talking
about. Jack Rabbit Jo Hansen's son, he lived here, he lived in the Oak house
lie used to ski cross country all along the top of that...the top of Luzerne Mountain
it is a ... plain, it dips it goes up or goes down it has small lakes and ponds and
streams and ...I think God made it for a very well, cleverly designed resort. As
far as winter sports go it cannot be beat, it is a great mountain, the top would
be great for touring and all sorts of recreational facilities. These people have
hired the finest firm in the United States as far as I am concerned, I have seen
a lot of ski areas, I am a supplier for ski areas, we sell to ski areas all over Canada
and the United States and to put in the vernacular as far as ski resorts go I have
been around. I am here to add by yea to progress with JJ Johnsons plan for the
top of West Mountain. It is a well control program that has been developed it
is a good one, it is going to be great for the community, historically it belongs
and I want to thank you all for letting me have my chance to speak up tonight
even though I am a block and a half from Queensbury I am really routing for
this project which would be great for the whole community. Thank you very
much.
Supervisor Borgos- Could I just see for a minute a show of hands how many more people wish to
speak this evening? There are relatively few, does anyone insist on a break at
this moment, I promised you one but there aren't too many...(Mrs. Potenza
indicated a break) ...your motion did not carry. If we start generating many
more speakers past 7:45 or so then we will take a break. I might need your vote
on another thing next week. Who is next please? Mrs. Buttling?
Judy Buttling- Ili, I am Judy Buttling, I live Bonner Drive, we did live at the foot of West
Mountain in a very beautiful section, I think it is a beautiful area, I think Alike
has developed it very, very nicely. I do have some major concerns about the
development taking place. We recently bought another home they are developing
behind the house. Somehow during the course of the development the survey
stakes were knocked
out, they knocked down fifteen to twenty feet of trees behind the back of our
property taking out any buffer zone between our property and the next property.
My main concern is who is going to keep track on these developers? 1 think Mike
and Mary are going in this with an honest idea of what they want to do, it is
the developers I am concerned about, how honest are theses developers being,
are they going to make sure that the stakes are not going to be ripped out? Are
they going to follow true? Does the Town have the facilities to keep check on
these developers while they are doing the developing. They took down fifteen
trees behind the back of our house, that cannot be replaced with eight foot trees.
You do not replace clumped birches that have been there thirty to fifty to hundred
years and say oh, I am sorry. During the time when you are asking the developer
why are you going this, he said, I don't know the survey stakes are missing and
we have no recourse, its like you are still taking down too many trees. No a
did anything about it, and now we are without the trees. That is what my ma
concern is, that they are not going to be enough people to keep check on the
projects while these projects are taking place, that is my major concern.
Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you very much. I just might add that many of the concerns that you have
just mentioned will be addressed under our new zoning regulations that should
take effect July 30th. Next please, yes, Sir?
l,en Fosbrook- My name is Len Fosbrook, I live in Northwest Village, Northwest Road in
Queensbury. As I have been listening I have attended the three community
meetings that Mike has had and in listening the comments at this meeting, there
are two issue that I see that arise, one is dealing with a managing change and
the second one is enhancing or developing a special resource in the Town of
Queensbury. Dealing with change is a very personnel thing. I grew up in Glens
Falls and when they built Quaker Road they took away my swimming hole at
Ilalf-Way Brook. That was my first exposure to development change. After
college I moved to Boston and I spent twelve years in the metropolitan Boston
area and literally watched .development like a wave moving out to 128, 495 at
that time feeling that was not for me, I wanted to move back to Glens Falls
where my roots wore. ComingN bark to Glens Falls and looking over the rommrmity
and trying to analyses the best way that I can take advantage of the beauty of
this area I choose to talk with Mike at West Mountain. I bought a piece of property
seven or eight years ago in Northwest Village and the Planned Site Development
that Mike puts you through in order to become a resident at Northwest ViU
is very interesting. fie has a planned community before he even started t
I think that Mike being involved the development of the mountain is a very g'
sign. As he developes this mountain and after being his neighbor for eight years
and seeing the restrictions and the way he wants the environment of tine present
environment, to exist I am very encouraged at what will happen at the top of
the mountain. Ile should be the toughest watch dog that you will ever have.
The other thing_ is that it will in my estimation provide me with a good
neighborhood it will enhance the recreational possibilities that I presently have
and it will give me more of an environmental to expand into and it allows somebody
the personnel freedom to live out his dream. lie certainly could have sold off
the property and gone to the beach many years ago but he wants to stick around
and see this thing developed the way he planned it. That makes it very gratifying
for the present residents of the village and I am for the project.
Srpervisor Borgos- 'Thank you. Mr. Brandt.
Paul Brandt- I am Paul Brandt, I. live on West Mountain Road, I happen to be Mike's brother.
I think that this country is in a growth period and the population is increasing
and we really cannot stop growth. I think that Mike is going to do the best job
that he possibly can. I know of some of the concerns that people have about
taking trees down that don't belong down and this kind of thing. If lie does that
type of thing people will be down on him and the Town Board will be down on
him, the Zoning Board be down on him, I think it won't work. Ile is going to do
his very best to do a good job and take care of the environment as best ajj^ he
can. I am all for the project even though it will effect me, I live on West Mouti jn
Road myself and I know if you look at States like Vermont that had quite alv
projects at Ski areas I have seen quite a few of them because I sell equipment
to ski areas. Most of them are very well done and look very good and I do not
think it has deterred the rural nature of Vermont, its Vermont's Number One
Industry and it can be a good growth industry here in Glens Falls. Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos Thank you. The hand in the back.
Drew Monthie- My name is Drew Monthie, I am a life long resident of Queensbury and I have
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a couple concerns after having read the EIS that I would like to have addressed.
One is that they have lowered the density in Queensbury but what about Lake
Luzerne they still going with one dwelling per one acre on most of it. Those
people are going to be traveling on our roads to shop, but we are not going to
be getting the tax revenues from this. I think it would be a good idea if the zoning
was reduced in this area to lessen the impact on us. There is approximately
3000 units of housing proposed for this if he figured that the average household
has three people that is about 9000 more people traveling on our roads. Queensbury
has projected a population of abort 40,000 by the year two thousand. This would
definitely contribute to that increase. Another thing I wanted to talk about
is the water runoff. t read where the peak flow in the stream because of the
impervious surfaces created by foundations, roads, other structures that do not
allow the water to percolate down through the earth will increase the flow
approximately three hundred and seventy six percent. They say that they are
going to keep this at pre-development levels through a series of ponds and tanks
and things like that and regulate the flow of water I would like to know how
this is going to be done. I am not an engineer so I do not understand this, how
are you going to keep this at pre-development levels what if your system fails
and a couple other questions are has this system been used elsewhere in the
country? Was it successful? Another thing I wanted to mention, I read recently
in the paper that we had record water usage in Queensbury, to keep up with that
they have had to pump water up to the tank that sits on Luzerne Mountain Road,
my business partner was just telling me recently that someone left the water
on from the water dept. which over flowed out of the tower, hit one of the streams
and washed out part of his driveway. This is just a little bit from the Water
Tower what is going to happen when we have three hundred and seventysix percent
more water going through these streams? Another thing is the traffic flow.
I own a small business on West Mountain Road I read the EIS, Corinth Road is
to be widened to four lanes, West Mountain Road is to be widened three lanes
with two south bound lanes. I have limited frontage this is in the EIS. What
is going to happen to my frontage and the other people who have homes along
the West Mountain Road are we going to look like Bay Road near Quaker where
the door stops right on the roads edge? What about the people with children
that have frontage for them tb play in, now their children will have to use the
back yards or go to a public playground? It also says that pesticides and chemicals
used on the golf course, salt, things of that nature on the road that it will cause
- a degradation of the water quality and also seven hundred and fifty acres of
vegetation will be cleared for the project, this will further contribute to run
off problem with the impervious surfaces created how is the developer going
to deal with this and how are they going to keep this water at its historic or
pre-development flow level? Another thing we are talking about and I saw the
slides, they have definite solutions for the waste problem. The EIS says that
just from this project solid waste is twenty-six tons per day that would be
generated. ...(tape changed) Another thing I came across in the EIS was that
there would be blasting it says that blasting will be done between 8 and 5 on
week days Monday through Friday. The people that live in the surrounding area
that go to work all day are they going to come home and find their china closet
tipped over and smashed on the floor. What kind of shocks does this blasting
going to create? It said in the EIS that there was a need for this because of
a national trend toward recreation oriented life styles. Are we in the Town of
Queensbury going to pay to start development on trends and fades things that
kind of fade away after they lose their popularity? Finally, I want to talk about
the wildlife, it stays there is not going to be any real impact on wildlife. Yesterday
as I was driving along West Mountain Road in front of Mrs. Hull's property I saw
two deer crossing. You are going to clear seven hundred and fifty acres if you
go along Corinth Road in the Spring and look up the ridge and see the running
through there, where are these animals going to go? I see deer on my own
property, numerous birds and wildlife and I also see and I can count them every
day probably ten or twenty small animals dead on the side of our roads in
Queensbury, because of the traffic flow. How are we going to deal with this?
Most of you in this room tonight who drive on the road how many of you get
j delayed in traffic here, can I have a show of hands? What is it going to be like
with ten thousand more people how are you going to deal with this and cope with
this? West Mountain Road and Corinth Road going to be like a Quaker Road
in the western part of the Town? Thank you.
810 ....
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you. I continue to be impressed with all the work that all of
you have put into these comments. Mr. Rist.
Harold Rist- I am Harold Rist I have got property in Queensbury. This last speaker
Mad some very valid points but I think that 99% of those could be handled
by good engineering and knowing Mike and knowing his background
tie is going to have the job done right. I think the other point that
should be made is that the growth is going to come, we cannot stop
it. The only wily you can stop it is maybe set up some road blocks
in place- The growth in going to come and it should come along the
way of a planned pattern. I think these planned developments that
we are talking about in Queensbury not only this one but the one on
Hiland Avenue, the Earltown project and so-forth are a chance that
we have and you have as the Board and as the people of the Town of --�
Queensbury, this is the change you have to make a good solid
contribution and I do commend the previous speaker he has taken up
some very valid points however, they are good points and they must
he considered and I am sure Mike and his group of professionals, the
engineers and architects will consider those points. They will be well
considered and well handled. I recommend the project.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you. Way in the back, please.
Tracy 'Tabor- My name is Tracy Tabor and first of all with the Board permission
my mother just had a serious operation and she is in bed and she wrote
a letter and she wants me to read it. I will turn it over.
Supervisor Borgos- We would be happy for you to read the letter.Please give tier my
regards.
Tracy Tabor The letter-June 21, 1988 M
Dear Steve, George, & Members of the Board:
Sorry I cannot attend tonights meetings, I have just had an operation.
This letter is to confirm the telephone conversation I had with Steve
last month at his home.
Both Don and I want to go on record as stating we* are vehemently
opposed to Mike Brandt's West Mt. Project.
As 1 told Steve that day - Don and I spent the day with he and JoAnn
when mall first walked on the moon. That was progress but, what
is happening to the Town of Queensbury in titter chaos!
Don's Great-Grandfather, Prentiss Gifford, bought this and a great
deal more land here at West Mt. in the late 18001s. He was the Justice
of the Peace. We are proud of our family history. This whole section
was known as Giffordville. We have continued Prentiss's love of the
land and devoted a great deal of time and hard work to keep it as natural
as possible. We have taught our children and hundreds of other children
this love of nature and the land.
It's very sad, but if things continue the way they are in the Town of
Queensbury and especially here at West Mt., What will be left for
us to pass on to our Grand children, heavy city traffic, noise and air
pollution, No quiet nature trials where they can observe our natural
bird life. , we identified 110 different species here! We have observed
first hand deer, ermine, weasels, red fox, flying squirrels, red and
grey squirrels, racoons, skunks, and chipmunks to mention a few.
The Senior Citizens the 411 the Girl Scouts, The Boy Scouts and School
Classes have enjoyed our trails our pine parks our small pond life and
observed such wonders as fire flies, tray fish and salamandors. They
have watched tadpoles changing into frogs. We taught them this is
all part of God's wonderful creation and how it is up to us to protect
and preserve this earth God gave to us as a free gift.
Tell me truthfully, do you think there will still be the abundant wildlife
here at West Mt. when they get through with their West Mt. Project?
Whether its all in the Town of Luzerne or not a fool would know all
the bad effects will be felt in the Town of Queensbury for years to
all
come.
I fell in love with West Alt. 34 years ago. This is the first time I have
ever entertained a thought _I might have to call some where else my
home! And, its breaking my heart.
If you let this huge money making grandiose scheme go through it
will be quite clear you don't give a hoot about the common hard-working
citizens that elected you and depended on you to keep our dreams
of owning our own little part of the American dream a reality.
Sincerely
Margie Tabor/Donald Tabor
--' (handed letter over)
I do have my own comments, first of all I would like to point out a
couple things. One is where I live my parents built two roads my road
is called Lilac Lane and the other road is called Twin Mt. Drive. My
parents built it years and years ago because where they wanted to
built] the Town said no way it is too long of a driveway, there is no
access. So they went this route, they ... some work with some relatives
and they come up with a two road idea. As someone said it probably
is a tiny subdivided lot or development but I think it is a beautiful
development and it came out very nice and very attractive. My parents
don't own it they didn't really tell people to go ahead an buy, it happen
and it is a small little piece. It really wasn't even planned but it is
something that wasn't planned to happen perfectly and it looks nice
and it is beautiful and they have been there a long, long time. Aly
name is Tracy Tabor,I guess everyone knows that I live at West Mountain
I guess right now you can tell that my mother is against this project
and I am a little bit against this project too. I really do not want the
Jetsons living next door to me. They look nice in TV but Astro in my
back yard doesn't do anything for me. Specifically I am against any
increase in zoning on either side of the line the Town of Queensbury
or Lake Luzerne. I realize that Queensbury cannot tell Lake Luzerne
what to do but can request Mr. Brandt and his associates if you want
this project to go through to voluntarily abide by the existing zoning
on both sides which I believe now is one house per three acres. If Mr.
�— Brandt and his associates gets the go ahead from Queensbury without
any assurance of what they will do in Luzerne ...mass confusion and
chaos. Think about it, Queensbury gets all the major impacts and
the Town of Luzerne gets all the taxes. That does not sound quite
right to me. I do not feel that the people in the surrounding area really
want to foot the bill for these so called dreams. I have a dream to
and in my dream I picture Queensbury as a nice refined natural beautiful
place to live not a four lane race way with red lights every half mile.
I have a business on West Mountain and though my"business may be
small we are surviving we are doing it, we are making it. Mr. Brandt
tells us...fie needs this development to keep his business flourishing
and there was a quote in the EIS to maintain the operation. I have
to wonder after hearing all the things that I heard West Mountain has
that business ever flourished on that Ski Area? There has always been
problems up there when you state that the whole town both sides for
and opposed acknowledge all the ...successes and accomplishments
these we can readily acknowledge, we can see we can look at them
but what do we have to look for here in the past I mean that there
is North West Village it is not a huge development it is now anywhere
near the scale that this is, you didn't have the traffic the sewer the
water any of those things to contend with. We could have had... program
to get people into the house but it is not the same thing. Now, he
has had problems with his own ski area this is a fact. There have been
close to or even into bankruptcy to my knowledge that I know of, I
ask if this is all Rueensbury's fault and do we have to pay for the
development for him to stay in business? Could this maybe be the
fault of managements cash flow policy? As it is what happens the
small town ski resort having these problems what will happen if the
face of the mountain is destroyed and this huge and I call it a huge
inflated bubble of building bursts. I don't think Queensbury will look
very attractive from 87 with a bald face mountain. This is well I realize
that there are no assurances that our local economy will stay the best
that it is. Take a drive down Queensbury Streets, every street has
a house for sale on it and not
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just new developments but everywhere you look. Bedford Close has
houses on every street in that development it has been there for what,
ten years? We have to fill these house too. You are talking eight
five people for second home people and all the other houses are here
why cannot the second home people buy in Bedford Close they are
nice houses. If this does this bubble goes burst and things were to
collapse what is going to happen to our economy? That has to be taken
into consideration, economic boom is great when it is happening but
when it fails all across the country you see places where it does and
the Towns dry rip. Contractors are out of work if this happens, people
with no place to go acrd houses are sitting there waiting for people
to buy it. There is no guarantee that the Democrats aren't going to
get elected in November. ... Mr. Brandt and his associates seem to '
...grand and spectacular but to me and my family and natives of this
area they sound the word gross and selfish. I would ask from this
Board to help slow the pace down of growth, Mr. Montesi said we cannot
stop growth I want to see it slow down. I personally want to see it
slow down. Hundreds of people that I talk to want to see it slow down
the way it was in Rueensbury, has drastically changed, Quaker Road
is a llell and if West Mountain if that is turned into that I will close
my little store and I will go someplace else...it will be totally impossible
for people to live...there is a lot of great places to live around here
we do not have to create 10,000 new homes for people that are going
to have second homes. It is a great idea but what will it do to the
people that are living here paying their taxes and making this town
what it is today. It is taking everything away from us and giving it
to them, and they did not even start this town. I lived here all my
life and my family has lived here for a hundred years, we born here
and we farmed here and I built my own business here,after my father
started his business, a totally separate kind of business otherwise,
you know, I feel like a part of Queensbury. I feel like this is effecting
the way I live to drive out go unto the road and have to wait fifteen
minutes to get out of what used to be a little dirt street on Lilac Lane
on West Mountain Road sort of gets me upset when my business is
five seconds from the house. It would be easier to walk down the
road...it is a little quicker. I would like to ask the Town Board to help
slow down the pace of growth you drive out all the people the common
people who made this town what it is today and replaced it with tourist
and jet setters and non committal people. Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos- Again I would like to ask how many more people plan to speak, I think
at this point we will take a five minute break...I made a comment
at the last couple of public hearings here that I noticed that the people
do not want to come back from a break that we are more neighborly
oriented in our break than we normally are and may be that is a good
thing and those that have not heard that before please be advised that
is the way most of us feel. We did say the last time perhaps we will
just call a meeting some night and adjourn it about ten minutes and
let everyone talk for four or five hours. We are ready for the next
four hours. Number 22, please raise your hand and lets get started
again.In the back please.
Terry Cranrell- My name is 'ferry Crannell and I reside on Luzerne Road in Rueensbury
I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this project considering its
scope and potential impact to the Town of Rueensbury. It is probably
the most significant development proposal that the Town has ever
had to deal with. As with any project of this magnitude a wide variety
of negative impacts could potentially result. Some of these impacts
can be reasonably mitigated while some cannot.
Supervisor Borgos- Could you speak a little closer to the microphone please so that the
tape could pick that up. '.
'ferry Crannell- A look at the development constrains maps prepared by Rueensbury's —�
Planning Consults will show serious and often severe limitation due
to slope, bedrock, soils, deer wintering areas, there will certainly be
visual impacts and not receiving optimistic predictions by the project
sponsors the tax payers will be hit hard to provide the additional services
road improvements and other capital construction that will be necessary.
Each of these impacts has a common thread and shares a common
cause and that is density. The density of this project is by far the
single most important issue that the Town Board must address. The
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original proposal called for tripling the density legally allowed by the
Zoning Ordinances of both the Town of Luzerne and the Town of
Queensbury. In his letter of December 6, 1987 to the Queensbury Town
Board, Attorney John Caffry on behalf of the Queensbury Association
explained the legalities of density limitations regarding PUD projects
in Queensbury. I believe that most if not all Town Board Members
are in agreement with Mr. Caffry's interpretation as evidence by Mr.
Borgos's December 12th response to him. In his letter Mr. Borgos stated
to John Caffry, your letter clearly and carefully states the rules
governing PUD status. You can be sure that my vote at least and
believe most it not nll of the rest of the iionr i will be to s►istnin
or reduce the current density levels. Further your comments relative
to commercial development are also clear and I will seek to uphold
f the intent of the current language in that area. The EIS at least includes
one alternative proposal that does not violate allowable density in
the Town of Queensbury and I applaud the Town Board, and the Planning
Board for convincing the West Mountain people that Queensbury is
truly serious about compliance with allowable densities in PUD's
proposed for the Town of Queensbury. However, the project still exceeds
Lake Luzerne's density by a factor of three. In your second letter
dated December 23, 1987 which each Town Board member received
a copy of Mr. Caffry points out the fact that Luzerne has a similar
provision in its zoning ordinance and that ... density in PUD's that
says in effect that the total number of units in a PUD cannot exceed
the total number of units if the PUD were not created. Density cannot
be increased. Every other PUD project has stayed within its density
limitations, Earltown, Hiland Park, Top O' World are good examples.
The West Mountain project should not be the exception. I know of
no one that feels that West Mountain is not entitled to a fair economic
return on its investment. Certainly a good project can be completed
at West Mountain that is economically viable but not unfairly burdening
the residents of Queensbury. You know, the issues here are not whether
PUD's are a good way to go, the issues are not whether or not potential
problems can be engineered the issues are not whether not West
Mountain can build a quality project because I think that it can. I
think the key issue is very important at what level is development
allowed to be prosperous I will be kind and say prosperous while it
is being on the backs on other people that have to be impacted
negatively. Earlier we heard some comments by Mr. Harrison about
the generosity of the West Mountain people in staying within
Rueensbury's density limits. With what you read-in the EIS there
preferred alternative does not reduce the total number of units they
just pushed those units over across the line about one hundred yards
into the Town of Luzerne. Reviewing a project of this magnitude
should not be a shell game, I think West Mountain can have a quality
project 1 think everybody involved can make a good buck and I think
it can be done environmentally sound and it can be done at a level
that still allows Queensbury to retain its identity and retain those
features that makes it a really nice place to live. Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you. Another hand in the back.
John Caffry- John Caffry, For the Queensbury Association. For those incline to
coui►t heads as was done after the Earltown thing the Association has
approximately fifty members and they may not all agree with everything
I have to say but I am generally speaking on behalf of the Association.
I have not read the whole EIS yet, so I cannot get into all the details
but I would like to raise a few issues. ..of course is the issue of traffic,
as the first caller said today West Mountain says it is going to be like
the jetsons up there, well the jetsons do not have traffic problems
because they have those little space scooters and they do not have
to drive on roads. I do not think that West Mountain will be developing
those kinds of things quite yet. I ...a lot of traffic impacts, in particular,
Corinth Road, West Mountain Road etc. would have to be turned into
L-- four lane highways and minor road would have to be probably have
to be widened the shoulders and all that. The practical effect of that
means while people live along those roads they will loose their front
yards. It will be like over on Bay Road where somebody has a steel
plate in their front yard to keep it from falling into the street after
they widened the street. You drive down Corinth Road while those
houses are very, very close to the street by the time that is widened
out to a super highway they are going to have traffic right up to their
living rooms. Mr. Crannell who just spoke lives on the top of Luzerne,
<:11.4
Tuthill Road in order to widen that road sufficiently you are going
to have to carve out the mountain side you are going to wind up having
to take land from a lot of people who live along that road. I do not
think all these people are going to willingly give up their front yards
which means the town or someone else is going to have to condemn
that property in order to widen the roads. We know that the Town
Board does not like condemnation of property having litigating a
condemnation at Round Pond with you for the last three years and
having heard Mr. Montesi's comments that condemnation is storm
trouper tactics so the question is how are we going to achieve this
►netig"tion rnerrsures needed to widen the roads if it is going to require
taking everyones front ,yard? Another traffic impact question is that
of Luzerne Mountain Road which is probably the worse road in Town.
If you allow the residents of three thousand homes or even a thousand
homes to drive up that mountain every day you are going to have a
heck of a problem, it is dangerous enough right now which just the
traffie that it has and there is really no way to straighten out that
road and make it acceptable without tearing up half the mountain
side. I think that one of the conditions proposed as mitigation measure
if this project is approved in what ever form has to be that there be
no access frorn there onto the Luzerne Mountain Road. It could be
used for access for emergency vehicles there would have to be iron
clad measures to assure only emergency vehicles can use it, a sign
isn't going to matter just ask anyone who drives through McDonald's
from Route 9 to sneak around up to the Aviation Mall via old Aviation
Road. Signs like that do not do much good. There has to be some
kind of measure to insure that those things are not go, that this is
not going to happen. Particularly during the winter you know you
cannot get up the road anyway without four wheel drive. It is also
necessary that there be economic viability of this project, at one other
meetings that was held at the West Mountain Ski Area last year Mr.
Krzys admitted that they were applying for Urban Development Action
Grant to help fund the intrastructure for this project, whether or not
they are still doing that I do not know but he also admitted that the
project would not be economically viable without this grant. So, we
Have to question whether or not this is a project that is going to fly
and if it cannot fly without government subsidies is it really the kind
of free enterprise American dream kind of thing that they are promoting
it as. Another issue that the Board should look at is to review the
land records at the County Clerk's Office all the property has been
subdivided, the ski area, the ski lifts are in one name ownership the
ski trails are in another ownership the parking lots is another ownership,
they got all kind of mish-mash presumably to protect themselves but
I think you have to look at who is going to control the land in order
to make sure in doing that all controls over this property if one company=
agrees to certain impacts or certain mitigation measures, you better
make sure it is binding on all the companies they put the land into.
I think it is also necessary to look at the track record of the developers.
According to the Capital District Bus. Review of November 9, 1987
according to a Mr. Krzys 11 North Pearl Street in Albany, he could
not rent it out he had, he was getting behind in this mortgage the bank
was about to foreclose he may have to sell it out, this is at a time
when down town occupancy rates in Albany were at a record low.
So, before you believe all the promises that have been made you should
investigate their track record a little bit more, he may turn out to
be OK but I think it should be investigated. (tape turned) ...you are
left with three hundred units, four hundred units on top of the mountain
what is going to be left with the burden of maintaining those roads
that were built all the way up there, the sewer system and all of that,
I think that some provision has to be made to protect the Town and
the homeowners of the financial impacts of something like that whether
it be in a form of a bond or something else I do not know, but I think
that is an issue that has to be looked at. In their presentation of their
EIS they claim 88% open space but in the meeting that I was at last
year Mr. Krzys showed how it was calculated you take the buildings,
the roads and everything and you add them together they are called
...everything else is called open space. He is including peoples yards
as open space the front lawn of the Hotel everything like that I do
not "think that is the way open space is calculated in the Town of
Quecrrsbury when you calculate for Earltown and Hiland Park anything
that was included in a single family residential lot or they yard around
the condo units was not included as open space and I think that should
be recalculated to see
815
if it complies with the ordinance. Another economic issue that has
been touched on before what happens when the area becomes a resort
area, a lot of what happens is that the locals tends to loose control
of the economy they can no longer afford to live in the community
because second home development drives the prices so high that they
have to live ten to twenty miles away. They are talking about creating
all these high quality jobs when most jobs at ski areas are lift attendants,
chambermaid at the hotels things like that, those are not exactly high
quality jobs. In the issue of density, they have compared the density
to Hiland Park and to Earltown but that is not the corparison that
should be made as Mr. Crannell pointed out, you have to compare it
to the density allowed under the existing zoning the density allowed
for that specific site. So, Hiland Park was allowed higher density
their site is more suitable for development. A better comparison for
C this project is the Top O' World project which just like this one is built
-- tip on top of a mountain where there are shallow soils, steep slopes,
no public sewer system up there, they have fourteen hundred acres
and one hundred and seventy units and which is one unit for every
eight acres and they are making a go of it I do not think the Galesi
group would have bought the project if they did not think they could
snake a go of it. The developers of this project to claim that they
cannot make a go of it without three thousand units I find a little hard
to believe. Also, again, as was previously pointed out, when the
Queensbury Town Board took their right track or stood up for the
integrity of their zoning ordinance last fall and told the developers
that they had to comply to the existing zoning and West Mountain
comes out and they are trumpeting how they have offered alternatives
to meet the major concerns of the Town of Queensbury by offering
an alternative that leaves the existing density. All they did was put
those units over in Luzerne which has in effect of presenting a little
more open space in Queensbury and reducing it in Luzerne and keeps
the traffic impacts just as high as they were before. They haven't
changed that in the least little bit from their original proposal. Also
as Mr. Crannell pointed out•.in the Town.of Luzerne most of the property
in this area is zoned three acres just like in Queensbury with one small
part zoned for one acre they have the same ... ordinance as Queensbury
has that the density has to comply with the existing zone. Now, we
as the Queensbury Town Board cannot enforce the Luzerne Ordinance
that is up to that Board to enforce but all those impacts are going
to incur in the Town of Queensbury, traffic and all the rest and it
is up to you, you have the power of the SEQRA and the duty of the
SEQRA to impose conditions on this project that would minimize the
impacts on the 'Town of Queensbury. The way to do that, to minimize
to impacts on what will happen in Luzerne is to condition any
development that occurs in Queensbury on_ a very low density over
on Luzerne, probably based on the existing density which would mean
a total project of about one thousand Units. It is well within the power
of the Town Board to dictate to West Mountain what it.does in Luzerne,
you cannot dictate to the Luzerne Town Board but you can dictate
to the developer under SEQRA what happens on that part of the project
outside of the Town and how it is going to impact the Town. If you
do not do that then all the fine work you did last fall in enforcing the
Queensbury ordinance will not have done any good and just shifted
housing around and leave us with the same impacts. We would ask
you that you limit the size of the project to one most suitable for
the site rather than tripling the density and building a monstrosity
up there. Thank you.
Supervisor 13orgos- Thank you, Mr. Caffry. Would anyone else like to speak?
Cary Metivier Hello, my name is Cary Metivier and I work for Mr. Jetson, Mr. Brandt
actually. I am an employee of the ski area, West Mountain Ski Area
and John I consider my job a high quality job. I consider the jobs of
all our employees high quality jobs. Tracy posed on question and I
would like to help answer it right now, he said what is West Mountain
giving to our community. Well, Tracy, our West Mountain have given
an opportunity to many people of this community many kids their first
jobs, thousand of kids that have learned to ski, me, I went to school
in Boston I could not find a job when I got out and Mike Brandt afforded
me the opportunity to have a good job and to stay in this community,
which I was born in and grew up in. Thank you.
Supervisor Rorgos- We are waiting for number 25.
A .
A.
Kenneth Rohne My name is Kenneth Rohne, I live on West Mountain Road. I have
a lot to lose because of this project. I have a family, I have three
children, we moved to West Mountain about two years ago when we
bought some property which is about a stone throw away from the
entrance to West Mountain. We thought it was a nice place to bring
up our children and everything. Now, we are having second thoughts.
I buy a piece of property, I fix it up and we want to make it our home
and now I feel as it I am forced to maybe leave that area for the sake
4 lily kids. I heiu. people, the wildlife thing was brought tip, I see
wil<llii'e first hand evei,y single clay and I cannot believe that people
do not seem to care about it. The other thing to is I have some beautiful
trees like Mrs. Hull has some beautiful Oak Trees along her property
and development comes along and we have to take those trees out.
They are irreplaceable, I have some beautiful blue spruce trees on
my property and I can honestly say I know if they widen the road I
loose those trees. They are irreplaceable, who is, what are they going
to do if I move are they going to replace those trees on my property?
I do not think so. Are my kids going to be happy moving some place
else, maybe so, maybe not, but they are happy where they are now.
I think, development is a nice thing but I do not like it where I am.
I am sorry to say that, there are some other people here are for it
but they are on the other side of town, or I live in Glens Falls,and
you know well I have lived here for twenty years and I went to school
in Rueensbury and my wife went to school here and we wanted to bring
our kids up in this environment and now we are saying to ourselves
maybe we should put up the for-sale sign and move north. I do not
want to, I live here I have a lot maybe to loose from this project, I
am in the construction related field and maybe I am hurting my self
by standing tip here but I am more concerned about my family. I can
find another job, but I think, I just feel that I am being pushed off
my property and I do not feel that it is right. Maybe when the Brandt's
moved here, they had a family to bring up, you write on this little
letter here and it says they want the privacy of solitude of a rural
setting where the hell does my solitude go. That is the way I feel
maybe I hurt some peoples feelings this, that and the other thing but
I am the next generation, my kids are the next generation after that
and if you people do not care about my kids and their environment
then I have nothing more to say. Thanks for listening.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you very much. •
I'lilli€rtn 13randt I am William Brandt, I live on Northwest Village Road, Mike is my
father. I am not here to speak for or against the projects I am here
to bring out a point and I hope to make the public think. A lot of you
talk about moving here from other places or I have lived here for twenty
years or this or that. I do not think that matters, the fact is that you
live here and maybe you lived here and went an married someone and
you brought that person here, but I do not think you have the right
to say that I do not want anyone else here once you brought you wife
here or you bring up a kid here. That is great its your child, you are
adding to the town and I do not think you can say, this guy cannot
come because he did not grow up here or he has not been here twenty
years. I do not think anyone has the right to dictate what someone
does with their land and who can move here and who can't and where
they can live. My father wanted to have a mountain for solitude to
bring up his family, he bought it, he bought his own land for himself,
I suggest for the people that want their own land and that feel that
the mountain is partially theirs it is, they look at it every day, but
I go up on the mountain and I look at them everyday and I do not think,
that they have a right to say what another person does with their land.
Thank you.
Supervisor Borgos- Thank you.
Margaret Burrell- In listening to many observations both pro and con I have to say that
I have been impressed with the many considerations that have been
brought up and well brought up. There is one thing that no one has
mentioned that I would like to address now, I heard a vague memory
of a book that maybe a decade or decade and a half perhaps more
old Vance Packards Nation of Strangers, I 'do not know how many of
you are familiar with it but tie makes a point if I recall correctly,
n Pr
my memory is not what it once was that many communities across
the country because of the constant moving from one place to another
and I think statistically we know that every family, a family moves
on the average of every five years, is that correct?
Supervisor Borgos- Approximately, depending on where we are talking about.
Margaret Burrell- But country wide, it is something like that. To that fact he attributes
a good deal of the vandalism and the littering and the don't care attitude
111111, people show in coming to tr new comnllinity, they know they "Ire
not going to be there very long they are going to be moving on the
prohloms are not going to remain theirs so they blindly and without
respect to the property or the community do as they darn please.
11 seems to me that we are putting ourselves at perhaps at double
jeopardy. Because how can we expect second home owners to which
much of this particular development is addressed, how can we expect
second home owners who are only part time residents here to have
the same respect and concern for the environment that long time and
full time residents have. Perhaps, for all the careful engineering that
fins gone into this plan one great ... has been ignored and one that
is vitally needed, human engineering.
Supervisor Bongos Thank you very much. I try and not make too many personnel comments,
but you brought back some memories, a little more than twenty five
years ago I had coffee with Vance Packard and one other person, lie
wrote the Status Seekers and the Waste Makers also he was an
interesting personality, it was fun evening. Is there anyone else?
Lets take a minute and see if any members of the Board wish to make
comments for the record, we will start with Mrs. Monahan.
Councilrnarr Monahan- Steve, I would like West Mountain to address in their replies their
impact of widening the roads and I am thinking not only geologically
and environmentally but I am thinking of people impact. Who is going
to have to move because It moves their home, who is going to lose
their front yard. What kind of noise is there going to be that they
are going to have to live with constantly. 1 know people that live on
Ridge Road who no longer can have normal conversations in their front
yards anymore, in the summer time when their windows are open and
they are talking on the phone they have to stop their conversation
�— while the trucks go by. I think even the construction noise, I am thinking
of the hazards of these roads, I am wondering if you can cross the
road to just visit your neighbor? And, now the gentlemen brought
up are we going to lose some of our beautiful trees? I would like to
see that type of impact addressed in their replies.
Slipervi�:or 13trrgos 'Thank you very much. Mr. Montesi.
c'ouncilrnan Montesi- Much of what we do as a Town Board on a .Planned Unite Development
and Environmental Impact Statement Review is detailed. I guess before
I start the detail I have to look at West Mountain do I like the concept
do I like the concept of a mountain top village? Ilow will it be viewed
from the bottom of the hill, when I drive up the Northway as one of
the speakers tonight said will I still be intrigued with the fact that
1 am almost home because I can see the mountain and the slopes or
will I be confronted with, I know it will not be neon but lots of lights
on top of the mountain? So, I have to look at the over all concept,
what do I see rip there what do I want up there. I think I have to
understand the land and I did try to do that one Saturday, Mike and
1 spend eight hours walking the mountain and I tried to get a feel of
it and the ski experience of the mountain and that sometimes was
not so pleasant for me but get a feel once up on the mountain where
some of these, physically some of these concepts will be that Mike
is proposing. Once I did that I tried to understand the land up on the
mountain, how will the wildlife be what will happen to the people below.
Lastly, flow is this going to effect me and my family and my community
and what will happen to the quality of life will it be changed, will
it he improved? Will I be able to accept some of these changes? Are
they for the good or for the bad? Can I control them? A couple of
the problems that we early on addressed and I for one told Mike that
1 would never vote in favor of this project unless the density was met,
1 think that the developer has come around and done what I asked him
to do in my community. John-.raises an interesting issue that maybe
that has moved
over to Luzerne. We are having a public hearing tomorrow night and
I presume we will address that in the Town of Luzerne. We also told
Mike we did not want to see any access through Luzerne Mountain
Road we thought that one of the major concession that he would have
to do was to build that two land road or loop road and make that
Boulevard a first step to show us the intent was there not to use Luzerne
Mountain Road. That is a big first step that we are asking a developer
to do that is probably a five to ten million dollar project to build that
road, that will open up the mountain and open up all kinds of
opportunities for golf course and all of the things that l Brandt
needs. 1 guess the one issue that I have a real difficulty with and this
becomes part of the details that I have to look at there has been a
lot of people that said, yea, this is a great project and there has been _
some concern. My real concern is the project as it stands presently
is proposing a secondary treatment plant, into a sewer plant into a
stream, this stream will ultimately go into the Hudson River. The
Iludson River probably within a mile and a half of my water intake
for a major source of water for my community. I really have some
concerns with that, that maybe addressed in the statement that says
the State of New York Health Dept. and the DEC have the final say
as to whether there will be any nutrient loading into the river. I have
got to tell you I am proposing with the water committee an eight million
dollar expansion of our water treatment plant and God, I do not want
to take a chance that Mike's secondary treatment plant is not going
to work someday and we may have a heavy influx of nutrients loading
into the river and I know there are nine and a half million gallons,
or nine and a half cubic feet per second flow but that doesn't mean
anything to me today when we haven't had rain for four or five or
six days and we may be at a very low ebb and if that treatment plant
should fail what happens to my major source of water, ten million
gallons a day potentially that we are going to be drinking kind. Along
with that, there is a run off that goes into those streams, just urban
runoff. Again, what I am saying to Mr. Brandt and his group is that
there are a lot of things that conceptually I like about this project
vnd 1 think they have certainly shown me their willingness to make
concession and to make some compromises. This last compromise
in my mind is one of the alternatives is obviously going down to the
Glens Falls Sewer Treatment Plant, an expensive proposition but want
a class way to go. Then we eliminate the problem into the river above
our drinking source. We may even open another end of town that may
not be so expensive for Mr. Brandt because that maybe a whole sewer
district and we maybe able to provide sewers for the west end of our
community to, specifically along Corinth Road. In any event other
details, the fire house, gee, according to that plan we said to Mike,
we nre going to need a fire house on top of that hill and we already
know that's Ivest Glens Falls...Town of Queensbury they are proposing
a building they maybe proposing equipment to that end we also said
maybe a condition of employment of people on the mountain that this
is going to be a second home maybe on time sharing, and I do not mean
to impose that, that will be the case but anyone, second home people
are not going to be involved in a volunteer fire dept. Maybe a condition
of employment on working on the mountain has be to that you are
a volunteer fireman or whose going to man the fire engine. There
was some comments tonight about schools, institutional types of schools
1 would presume that would be a golf or tennis school am I right in
that Joe or Mike? Is that the concept?
S"Pervi`or Borgos- Please identify yourself so that when we listen to the tape we will
know who said it?
Joe Krzys My name is Joe Krzys, I think that what we are talking about goes
far beyond athletics. We are talking about an institute that deals
with education as a research center, innovative education. We are
talking about an institute that will bring world class speakers to the
top of the mountain where residents at the top of the mountain and
the rest of Queensbury and Lake Luzerne could hear. We are talking
about schools that would take kids into the Adirondack Mountains
and learn about geology and take kids to the ballet and that type of
thing. It is more than just recreation.
('ouncilman Montesi- Thank you. Lastly, the only other question that I have, again is a detail
that the Town Board has to deal with is, in our community we have
recreational fee, or land in lieu of recreation fee. In otherwords what
we have said to developers in the Town if you are going to come in
and develop in our Town that you are taking some open space, you
are putting stress and strain on our recreational facilities in our
community you have to pay us $250.00 per living unit or in lieu of
that we will take land to develop as a park. I just did not read that
anyplace and I do not know how that is addressed and maybe you can
address that to me later, you do not have to do it at this public hearing.
In Gary Bowens case, Hiland, I believe their gift to the community
was seventy acre parcel of land that effectively has provided us with
n buffer and protection of lialf-Way Brook that was something that
the Town Board felt very concerned about and environmentally it was
one of the issues we wanted to see addressed, they did that. I think
Iarltown is a combination of land and or dollars per living units I just
have not read it on Mike's and I would hope that is addressed someway
other than the fact that maybe the ski slope is a recreational area
and that the Town ought to be happy with that.
Supervisor I orgos- `Thank you. Mrs. Potenza.
Councilman,Potenza- As I look out my window at home I look over at West Mountain and
in the winter time I see the lights on the slopes and in the summer
time I see just the slopes and greenery it is very attractive from my
home. On Saturday I was at the top of the mountain and I toured tare
area I was very impressed it is a remarkable piece of land. As we
are sitting looking at the area, looking north toward Glen Lake and
Lake George one of the younger gentlemen that was with us and I
unlike the other athletic members of this Board road in a four wheel
drive vehicle I did not cross country ski or hike it. In any event one
of the young men made a point. You know everybody is so concerned
about going up the Northway or looking out of their living rooms and
looking up at this mountain to see what we are going to do with the
face of this mountain. Let me tell you I am up at the top of the
mountain and what I am looking down I do not particularly like to see.
So, you have to compromise, I want something that I can look out my
front window and look up to and if I do not see anything, and I see
exactly what I see today I would not be the least bit offended. I also
think someone living at the top of the mountain have every right to
look down and look at the surrounding area and look at it with a smile
and also be proud. There are impacts on this unit that I am concerned
about, one of them has been brought up probably out of twenty seven
people we heard discuss, twenty of them mentioned traffic. That
is a concern because although this development is not in my Ward
I am sure it will impact on my Ward as much as it will any other Ward.
I think I am a strong supporter of a planned unit development I do
a. not care if it is Ililand or Earltown or Mike Brandt or Joe Smith who
ever it is, the conceptual idea of a Planned Unit Development is the
only way to develop intelligently for any community. The West Mountain
Development, if it passes by the Board I think that you are going to
^ce an improvement in an area over a twenty year period rather than
something that is done a put up (tape turned),... previously by one
gentlemen about the impact on Luzerne, we have over the Town of
Luzerne. My concern is my family and my town but I would be offended
if some one came to me from another town and told we what I had
to do to my town. I think that the representatives from their, on the
Council in the Town of Luzerne are intelligent people although we
are the lead agency, it is their town and it is there concern and I bow
to their knowledge. I hope only to guide them and not to tell there
yes or no.
Supervisor Borgos- If this was an easy question the same as with the other ones facing
us we would not be here tonight. We could say, yes, no, and be all
done with it. It is not an easy question. For the sake of those who
have not attended Town Board meetings regularly and most of you
fall in that category. A long time ago when this project first came
to the attention to the Town Board I indicated that for thirteen years
I had the pleasure of owning property at the Top of the Mountain,
I had forty four acres adjacent to Mr. Brandt's property. From 1.964
through 1973 I lived on top of the mountain in a house that I built there.
I have the pleasure of walking every inch of that mountain, I think
every inch of that mountain many times, hunting, fishing, just walking
taking pictures. We raised the first several of our children there until
we moved further north on the mountain. I know the mountain I know
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the roads I know the streams I have tremendous respect for everything
up there. You can be sure that I and the other members of this Town
Board will do everything humanly possible to be sure that if this project
is approved the environment of the quality of life up there is preserved
and protected the way certainly I remember it twenty-five years or
so when I first went up there and for those that have seen it sense
it will be taken care of. There are streams up there in the back area
Of the so called nine mile swamp area that I have referred to many
times as an aquarium. They are absolutely crystal clear. There is
(,'nivel on the hottorn there are trout in the streams it is absolutely
l�enntifu1. t hnve n lnrge painting on the wall in my home ihnt is of
<r swamp area with evergreen trees and fresh coating of snow on the
moss that is growing on the ground and many times in that very spot
1 sat on a deer watch, watching the snow fall and creating the setting.
'That is why I bought that painting, it is a painting about three feet
by four feet. Please be assured that we will do everything possible
to do what is right. This will not be a pushed through project, if it
gets approved, it will be approved with stringent conditions so that
our quality is preserved. That is my comments, are there any further
comments from anybody, if not we will call this meeting to an end.
We will reconvene tomorrow night at 7:30 P.M. in the Town of Lake
Luzerne. Thank you all for coming out.
(All correspondence received at tonights meeting will be placed in the West Mountinn Village file-)
R-spcot fully submitted,
h.l i f larteen Dougher
fawn ('lcrk--Qiieensbrrry
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