1987-11-19
JI)
QUBENSBUllY TOWN PLARIIIBG BOAD
Resched.1ed Meeting Be1d: BÐveaber 19, 1987 at 7:30 p.a.
Present: Richard Roberts, Chairman
Susan Levandowski Thomas Martin, Secretary
Joseph Dybas Prank DeSantis
Victor Macri Bi1da Mann
R. Case Prime, Counsel
Mary Jane P. Moeller, Stenographer
Chairman Roberts called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
The minutes of October 20, 1987 were approved as written by consensus.
OLD BUSIDSS
Mr. Roberts announced that two items under Old Business were tabled:
Subdivision No. 10-86: Stonehurst, Phase II
Site Plan No. 22-87: William E. Threw
SUBDIVISIOB BO. 17-86; PIBAL APPROVAL
Queen Victoria's Grant, Phase II
Mr. Roberts stated that this is for PINAL APPROVAL in a Suburban
Residential-20.
Robert Stewart represented the applicant. Mr. Stewart stated his
understanding that he was to return to the Board when 601 was started on
Phase I, in order to get the map approved for Phase II. There were 46
lots, with some 92 homes in Phase I and, at the present time, started on
42 lots and 84 homes, well over the 601 level. Applications for the same
building permits in all of Phase I have been applied. Construction is
going fast on the project.
Mr. Stewart offered colored-coded charts of Phase I showing which lots
are started and the phase of development for each. Also offered was a
breakdown of how many houses and what stages they are in.
Mr. Roberts verified that Phase II is a cul-de-sac. Mr. Stewart said
yes - Queen's Ann's Court, which are not all sold, some are speculative.
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Mr. Roberts asked the Board if they felt that there was compliance of
the 601. Mr. Stewart verified: Total lots: 46 lots in the Phase I, which
required 92 homes; 42 out of the 46 lots are started, and 84 out of the 92
homes. Percentage of start is 91.31, well over the 601 level.
The conversation then centered around the roads within the develop-
ment. Mr. Stewart said that the roads for Phase II are on the agenda for
the Town Board on next Tuesday, at 4:30 p.m. Letters of approval from the
Highway Department, Water Department have been on file for over a month.
The Town Board will not accept the roads for Phase II, until this Board
has approved Phase II, so that has to back up to this. The roads in Phase
II are all done and approved, except for the final top blacktop layer.
The subdivision regulations contain specific provision that a developer
can offer the roads for approval by the Town without the final blacktop
layer to the Town Board, if at that time he offers to put up a check for
security for the estimated cost to finish it. Mr. Stewart said he has
been before the Town Board, discussed it and they have agreed to accept
the road under those circumstances. Mr. Naylor has written the Town Board
saying the roads are fine, and have met all standards and requirements up
to that level, and our indication is that they will approve the roads
under those circumstances.
Mr. Prime asked if the letters have been filed with the Board. Mr.
Stewart said that he has never seen them. They are submitted to the Town
Board. I have been told that we posted a $24,000 check to guarantee that
we will, in the Spring, put the final coating on. It is too late this
time of year -- Naylor does not want blacktop poured after October 15.
Mr. Prime requested that copies of the letters should be received and
put in the file. Mr. Macri stated his concern that nothing is being cross
filed.
Mr. Stewart pointed out to the Board that they were not able to get
approval of Phase I, until the Planning Board approved Phase I. Then we
have to show that the roads are built to "snuff" and that you (Planning
Board) approved the roads, then and only then will the Town Board consider
approving the roads. Mr. Stewart commented that the above is the pro-
cedure which has been established. The roads are all in, the water is in.
Mr. Macri said he has a problem with proceeding with the roads, before
coming to the Board - it is premature. Until approval for the subdivi-
sion is granted and roads and profiles, the roads should not have been
built. This was only for PRELIMINARY APPROVAL.
Mr. Stewart made note to a letter from Mr. Messinger and the approval
status (see attached, Page 2A). Mr. Stewart felt that Final Approval was
given in this letter; however, Mr. Macri pOinted out that it was
Preliminary Approval only. The reason that roads should not be built
until final approval is because it gives the Board an opportunity to
change profiles, shrink up the development, etc.
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Q1JEENSBUP-. Y TOWN OFFICE BUILDING
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BAY AT HAVILAND ROAD
QUEENSBURY, NEW YORK, 12801
TELEPHONE: (518) 792-5832
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May 1, 1987
Houert ~. Stewart
10 Hadem Street
Glens Falls, New York 12801
Dear Bob:
You asked for an outline of the status of the Queen Victoria's Grant subdivision.
Phase 1 of this project has been given final approval by the Planning Board. This
means that upon payment of the recreation fees the completed final plat may be signed
by D~ck Roberts and construction can begin.
Phases 2 and 3 have received preliminary approval. This means that after 60% of
the units Cor phase I have been started, the plat for phase Z may be brought in for final
approval' and signature. Since the entire project has already received SEQR approval
as well as approval from the DOH, Fire Chief, Highway and Water Superintendents, this
should be a simple procedure completed in one meeting provided that phase 1 was
constructed according to plans.
Also, please be advised that the "development moratorium in no way affects the
approval process for this subdivision. Phases 2. and 3 may be brought in for final approval
and signature regardless of the moratorium.
As we discussed, Mr. Roberts may only sign the final plat once all other required
signatures are on it and the recreation fees have been paid. Once Mr. Roberts signs the
plat you should file it with the County Clerk and provide us with 10 copies for our filing
and distribution.
Thanks for your assistance in this matter. Please let me know if there are any other
questions.
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'Stuart F. Mesinger
Senior Town Planner
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Mr. Stewart requested guidance concerning this road problem. As he
understood the rules, he could not get approval for Phase II, he could not
get a building permit to build a house. Mrs. Mann explained that what the
Board did not want a "Levitt Town", where 200 houses were built over a
completed development. It is important to see the ramifications from one
Phase I, before the next Phase can start.
More conversation continued regarding the approval status. Mr.
Stewart said that once the Preliminary Approval and all the plans detailed
were done and approved - street, highway, water, etc. - then the developer
was able to feel that he had approval and then went ahead and bought the
property. Up until that point, he had it under options. The developer's
understanding was that the final approval in the phases was only that you
had to put up one, and come back and show the 60S started on one, and then
you automatically got two.
It was pointed out that there are three stages: Preliminary, Final and
Conceptual. Phasing has been in existence for a long time, but there has
been an additional requirement of the construction level, which was put
into effect January 31, 1987. The reason for the 60S is to see that much
developed and the results of that development.
Mr. Roberts said that there is some disagreement as to the letter from
the former town planner, and it seems that the we are operating against
the way we thought phasing should be.
Mr. DeSantis stated that the Board should have a letter from the
Highway Superintendent saying that the Phase II roads are satisfactory.
Mr. Stewart said he could have that letter by noon tomorrow.
(Note: At this point, Mr. Morse addressed the Board at the bench and
the statements were unintelligible.)
Mrs. Levandowski MOVED FINAL APPROVAL of Subdivision 17-86, Queen
Victoria's Grant, Phase II, that it has satisfied the 60S development
requirement as stated, which we want to change. This is contingent on
receiving letters from the Highway Department.
Seconded by Mrs. Mann.
Passed inani.ously
SUBDIVISIOB BO. 6-87
Northern Distributing, Phase I
Mr. Roberts said this is for seven lots on the lands of Northern
Distributing, south side of Corinth Road in a LI-IA zone.
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Wayne Gannett, Rist Frost Associates, represented the project.
Briefly, the subdivision is seven lots on the south side of Corinth Road,
the largest lot being the Northern Distributing complex, with room for
expansion; there are two lots on the west of new road (a town road) and
four lots on the east side. There will be provisions for on-site control
of runoff, on-site septic system, entire complex will be served by town
water aain expansion. There will be a temporary cul-de-sac as future
phases are developed, to continue on down and eventually come out onto
Corinth Road.
A few more design details have been added, but basically it is the
same that the Planning Board reviewed last month.
Mr. Roberts said that they didn't have too many questions; in fact,
they were excited about the project.
Mr. Prime asked if there were no basic changes in the lots or
from the Preliminary. Answer: That is correct. Exactly the same
preliminary.
Mrs. Mann stated that there was concern about right-of-way and
easements. Answer: One was an option that expired in 1910 and the other
one is an old railroad right-of-way that the attorney is working with
International Paper's attornies, and the whole thing is in the process of
being released, and as soon as there is a final piece of paper it will be
provided for the Planning Board Files.
Charles Scudder, Consulting Engineer, has no problems and it meets the
standards in all respects. He thinks it is a good project.
Mr. Dybas MOVED FOR FINAL APPROVAL Subdivision 6-87, Northern
Distributing, Phase I, having met the requirements of the Planning Board
and the Town Zoning Ordinances. Regarding the options, one has been
ironed out and the other will be ironed out shortly.
Seconded by Mrs. Mann.
Passeel:
6 yes (!.oberts, Kartin, Kan., DeSantis, Dybas, Kacri)
1 abstain (Leyandowski)
SITE PLAB BO. 25-87
Dunham Brothers
Mr. Roberts stated that this is to contstruction an addition onto th
existing building on the property situated on the corner of Routes 9 and
149 in a HC-1S zone.
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Richard Morse of Dunham Bros. was representative for the project. Mr.
Morse covered issues which were raised at the September 15, 1987 meeting.
1) The sidewalk is now shown on the map, as based on discussions with
the Department of Transportation.
2) The crosswalk.
Mr. Roberts provided background history for the audience. A number of
these new stores along Route 9, just south of 149, are expanding rapidly
and something has to be done about the traffic. We are trying to get,
with some success, most of the neighbors to agree to go with sidewalks.
That way customers can walk from store to store, instead of driving to
various stores. An engineer has been hired to help coordinate some of
this. The Warren County Planning Board thinks this is a good idea, too.
There is a letter from Bunny Bitner, Chairman, who likes the idea as well
(see attached, Page 5A and 5B). Dunham's was requested to find out about
a light and pedestrian crossing between the two shoe stores.
Mr. Morse said that the N.Y.S. Department of Transportation was
contacted. Since the last meeting, a formal response has been received
(see attached, Pages 5C and 5D). The D.O.T. listed requirements that they
wanted. This was shown on Sheet 3 of the packet distributed to the
Board. This redefines the stop-line and the crosswalk; it provides
signalization; pushbutton on both sides at certain elevation, with STOP,
WALK AND DO NOT WALK signalization. The controller that is there will
handle this, and they have submitted an itinerary of materials that are
needed to purchase, which the developer will purchase to put the light
in. They have informed Dunham's how to do it. A Work Permit is to be
obtained from the N.Y.S. Department of Transportation. So this will be
done, if approval is given.
Mr. Roberts had a reservation on one part of the letter and that is
that the above is contingent on the town accepting the sidewalk, and he is
not sure the Board can speak for the town on that. Mr. Roberts did not
feel that is the way it should be done, as he thought the businesses would
take care of their own sidewalks.
Mr. DeSantis felt it is the legal liability with the town that the
Board is objecting to (last line of 10/30/87 letter from D.O.T.). He does
not feel we can speak for the town, accepting either maintenance liability
and certainly not legal liability.
Mr. Morse said that we, as a developer, are ready, willing, and able
to take that responsibility. All we can do is to accept that respons-
ibility. We are certainly not trying to encumber the town with that. Mr.
Roberts said that a clarification is needed. Mr. Morse again verified
that the developer would accept the responsibility, but that it will be
clarified.
Mr.
break.
DeSantis asked who fixes the pedestrian
Mr. Morse said that has not been resolved.
switches, when they
Generally the lights
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WARREN COUNTY
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Telephone 518·761·6410
PLANNING BOARD
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Warren County Municipal Center
Lake George, New York 12845
Town of Queensbury
Town Board & Planning Board
Bay Road
Glens Falls, N.Y. 12801
Fii.ANNlNG & ~!Oim\lG
DEP/~trri':¡~~NT
Dear Board Members;
The members of ,the Warren County Planning Board have asked that I
correspond with your bo~rd to express our concern about traffic in the
Route 9 corridor between Exit 20 of the Adirondack Northway and Route 149.
It has become all too apparent that the intensity of land use in that area
has created tremendous traffic pressure that wi1l not be solved by a single
solution. A unified effort is needed in dealing with some of those problems
and issues in order to insure that an already bad situation doesn't become
worse.
At a recent meeting with'representatives of N.Y.S. Department of
Transportation, traffic section, the Warren County Board of Supervisors
and staff of the Warren County Planning Department, it was pointed out by
the D.O.T. representative that problems within that corridor need to be
addressed from a land use perspective. It was said that a solution would
not be forthcoming from D.O.T. because of the fact that th~ number one
priority throughout New York State was the deteriorated condition of the
bridges and the maintenance of existing roads. The only way that the section
of Route 9 mentioned would be addressed by D.O.T. would be if the accidents
and their severity were of tremendous magnitude.
The problem appears to be more of a capacity problem and not an accident
problem, and the D.O.T. representative stated that they did not have the
funds to deal with capacity. He felt that the municipality should examine
its land use regulations and densities in that area and try to deal with the
problem from that direction. He did say that representatives from his office
might be available to provide technical assistance and possibly a traffic study
of that corridor if requested by the municipality.
The issue of dealing with pedestrian and vehicular traffic between the
parcels on the east side of Route 9 is a specific problem that the County
Planning Board is concerned about. It is our position that a better solution
is possible and that the inclusion of sidewalks and access points along the
front portion of the parcels, in total, along that corridor are both practical
and necessary. It is felt that, in conjunction with working with the Town's
designated Engineer and the project applicants, the Warren County Planning
Board and the Town of Queensbury Planning Board can specify enforceable
conditions that will insure that a more cohesive approach is followed in that
area.
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WARREN COUNTY
PLANNING BOARD
Warren County Municipal Center
Lake George, New York 12845
Telephone 518·761·6410
The County Planning Board felt that this information might be helpful
to your board in reviewing projects in that area as well as dealing with long
range plans for not only that area but other potential commercial areas in
the Town which will undoubtedly have similar problems.
The Warren County Planning Board is very interested in addressing this
problem and will be glad to meet with representatives of your board to
develop better solutions to the land use and traffic problems facing the·
town of Queensbury and Warren Coutny.
Sincerely,
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Bunny Bitner, Chairman
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l';l.i~:rl.·'-"':i':':, :}, ·,·,..'1',":.',.... STATE OF NEW YORK
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[}EI".!mïrÆ::N"f DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
84 HOLLAND AVENUE
ALBANY, N.Y. 12208
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JOHN E. TAYLOR. P.E.
REGIONAL DIRECTOR
FRANKLIN E. WHITE
COMMISSIONER
October 30. 1987
Mr. Nicholas Sciartelli
Morse Engineering
99 Lower Dix Avenue
Glens Falls. NY 12801
Re: ROUTE 9 AT ROUTE 149
WARREN COUNTY
Dear Mr. Sciartelli:
As per your request. we have investigated the installation of a pedestrian
signal and a crosswalk at the subject intersection. We approve the
addition of these features. The work would be done by your client under
a Highway Work Permit. Attached is a sketch showing our suggestions
on what is needed to complete the work. Briefly, what is needed is
as follows:
1. Install pedestrian indication and push button on signal pole in
southwest quadrant. Install sidewalk/pad so pedestrians can reach
the button. Relocate a sign so that pedestrian indication can
be seen and so pedestrians can reach button.
2. Install crosswalk across Route 9 (south side of. intersection).
3. Install new pole with pedestrian indication and button in southeast
quadrant. Pole to be located behind the curbed brick island so
that it won I t be hit by turning trucks. Install conduit (30 feet)
from pole to pullbox 2.
4. The new wire shall go from the controller, up the signal pole,
across the span. down the other pole to pull box 5, through the
conduit to pullbox 2 and then through the new conduit to new pedes-
trian pole. We estimate the ~length of new wire (7C/l4G) to be
325 feet.
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Mr. Nicholas Sciartelli
October 30, 1987
Page Two
You also requested that we consider a sidewalk along the east side of
Route 9. We would approve such a sidewalk if its location provides
room for snow storage along Route 9, the Town accepts maintenance and
legal liability, and if handicap ramps are provided.
If you have any questions, please call Jan Meilhede at 474-6377.
Very truly yours,
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Joseph W. Kelly
Regional Traffic ngineer
JWK:JM: 11
Attachment
CCI H. St~£fen8, Warren County Resident Engineer
W. Logan, .Traffic & Safety, Region I
T. Dick, Traffic & Safety, Region 1
...
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are maintained by the State of New York - the State owns and operates the
lights, and they would be responsible for the operation of it, whether
they backcharge Dunham Shoe or not is their (NYS) responsibility. Mr.
DeSantis was still looking for a mechanism - he gave an example of July
5th and the switch broke. The pedestrian that is there knows that the
switch is broken, but whose responsibility is it (let's assume you make
the allocation between the client and the State) ..~. who is supposed to
call first? Are we to wait until the State notices that the pedestrian
switch is broken and then assigns a crew, or is it going to be Dunham's
responsility, because they will know pretty much immediately because a
customer will come across the street and let them know that the switch is
broken? I am looking for a maintenance factor.
Mr. Morse said he would assume that if there is a problem with a
light that Dunham's, being there and being a prime mover in the light,
would take the responsibility to notify to notify whoever is responsible.
This would be true even if the major overhead light went out. Mr. Roberts
said that this still has to be clarified. Mrs. Levankowski asked who main-
tains the lights at Aviation Mall.
Mr. Morse said that the sidewalk that we had agreed upon is shown on
the map.
Mr. Morse pointed out that the other items that were in question were
the letter from the Beautification Committee. The meeting which Dunham's
was supposed to attend was cancelled and a letter was to be sent to Mr.
Roberts, but Mr. Morse has not seen that letter. Mr. Morse said he does
not know the contents of the letter, but that Dunham's would meet with any
requirements of the Committee. The next meeting of the Beautification
Committee is December 7, and Dunham Shoe will attend.
Mrs. Mann asked about the two buildings in the back. The area shows
as grass on the map, but when she was there it was mud. Mr. Morse: It
was eliminated. Charlie (Scudder) had made a recommendation that we
eliminate the asphalt coming around and it is now gravel. Mrs. Mann said
the asphalt is pretty far back now. Mr. Morse: The owner of the place
next to Dunham's has encroached 7 feet on Dunham's and they will remove
the asphalt. The septic has been relocated.
Mrs. Mann advised the Board that, while reviewing some of the bigger
projects, the little ones are slipping in and we will get a multitude of
little ones. Mr. DeSantis pointed out that we do not have jurisdiction
over certain-sized projects. We did not review this the first time.
Mr. Roberts introduced Charles Scudder, Engineer working with the
Board. Mr. Scudder said he and Mr. Sciartelli, Project Engineer of Morse
Engineering, and the County Planner had meetings on this project, because
the County had turned the project down because of a traffic hazard, but
the County did not explain what was meant by that. What is meant is
beyond the control of Dunham's and the Town to get a right turn lane. A
right-turn lane would solve some problems, but it is an extremely
complicated question and it is not fair to hold Dunham's up, because they
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have no power to do anything about it. Morse Engineering has done the
things that can be done:
1. Increase the permeable area on the lot;
2. Survey the back parcel and locate the blacktop in respect to their
property line;
3. I had concerns about drainage, but that was taken care of.
Mr. Scudder recommends Approval.
Mr. Roberts brought up the subject of pedestrian and vehicular passage-
ways continuous through the shopping areas. Mr. Scudder pointed out a
misunderstanding about the County's statement that they would like to see
a north/south road inside the private property line (lateral access road).
What the county really wanted was to be able to have the cars aigrate
through little openings. Most of the private property owners, including
Dunham's, would like to have that type of road.
Public Hearing Opened: no comment
Public Hearing Closed.
Mr. DeSantis: Would you show us on this sheet were the sidewalk is.
Mr. Morse: It is in back of the property line, you have to look at the
section line. (Conversation at Board table unintelligible.)
Mr. Macri asked who makes sure the sidewalks are maintained in order
to meet DOT criteria. Mr. Morse: We will maintain it as we maintain our
parking lots. It is a benefit to us. Mr. Roberts: I think it will take
care of itself. It is to their advantage. The Town does not want to get
involved, nor does the State.
Mr. Scudder:
concern about it.
way and is going to
the way to proceed.
I have researched this question and have expressed some
It is a complicated matter to do anything in a formal
take time. The way you (the Board) are proceeding is
Mr. Macri still expressed concern about the sidewalks, especially
after a business goes out of business. The common pedestrain access still
exists.
Mr. Martin asked about the status of Warren County Planning. They
disapproved, even with the changes. Mr. Roberts: We need a majority plus
one.
Mrs. Mann MOVED APPROVAL Site Plan 25-87, Dunham Bros. being as they
have made an effort to comply with the concerns of vehicular and pedes-
trian traffic. They have met requirements for the request of sidewalks
and accept the maintenance and liability of said sidewalks. They will
preserve vehicular transfer between stores and the parking lots. They
will remove 7 feet of blacktop to the east of the building and obtain DOT
permits for the light and pedestrian crosswalk. They have to meet with
the Beautification Committee and follow their recommendations.
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Seconded by Mr. DeSantis.
Passeel:
Yes 6 (Levandowski, Dybas, Mann, Roberts, Martin, DeSantis)
No 1 (Macri)
SITE PLAN 31-87
Hi-Way Host Motel
Mr. Roberts
units onto the
HC-1S zone.
read the application for construction of an additional 98
existing motel on the property situated on Route 9 in a
Mr. David Kenney, owner of Hi-Way Host Motel, explained the project,
the purpose being to convert the Hi-Way Host Motel to Days Inn Motel.
There will be parking in the rear and an indoor swimming pool. He
believes that he has met all the criteria of the town. To the north of
the property where the right-of-way is, Mr. Kenney will not infringe on
that in any way.
Mr. Kenney is also owner of the Adirondack Factory Outlet. Mr. Roberts
pointed out that Mr. Kenney just purchased the property to the south.
Mrs. Mann verified that there is no more land available on the roadway.
Mr. Kenney explained that, by the recent purchase, he protected himself
and the existing businesses. The house will be coming down. Mrs. Mann
felt that the development was good, because it was going deep.
Mrs.
acres are?
Mann: Where
Kenney: Yes.
the streets are out back, is that where the eight
Mr. DeSantis asked if the 8 acres are part of the Site Plan? Kenney:
They are part of this Site Plan, but not part of - - - - -(interruption).
Mr. Macri asked if it will be used in the function of the whole property?
Kenney: Presently, no. In the future I would like to do something with
it. As part of the site.
Mr. DeSantis confirmed that Mr. Kenney will have to come back when he
wants to construct on the 8 acres. A conversation continued as to the
relationship is of the site plan acreage versus the recently-acquired 8
acres.
Mr. Prime asked how many total units there will be: Kenney: 109. Mr.
Prime: How many parking spaces. Kenney: 111. Mr. Macri: How many
additional parking spaces? Mr. DeSantis: How many spaces there now?
Kenney: Roughly 36 now. I am taking down 10 units and those parking
spaces will be rearranged. The units are not part of the new site, they
(10 units) will be demolished and gone. Mr. DeSantis: How many units are
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there now? Kenney: 34. Mr. Kenney agreed that there will be III spaces
for 109 units and 8 for handicapped.
Mr. Dybas asked if Mr. Kenney was thinking of the service people,
employees and parking. Mr. Kenney agreed that it was one per unit. Mr.
DeSantis continued to express concern as to whether there were enough
parking spaces for guests, maids, service people, restaurant, etc. Mr.
Kenney said he has never had a problem and does not anticipate a problem.
Mrs. Mann disagreed about additional parking in that "we are parking
ourselves out of sight."
Mr. Roberts asked if parking seems to be a problem, could Mr. Kenney
pick up the road next to the land on the east side of the property.
Answer: Yes. Mr. Roberts brought up the subject of the right-of-way in
question, as a secondary access into McCormack's property so they could
build Phase III, because the Board felt it should have, for safety
purposes, two ways in and out. McCormack is thinking of workin¡ out an
arrangement to build a road that will use that right-of-way gettin¡ into
their property. It would not be wide enough to turn over to the town, as
a 50 foot right-of-way, but would be a good access for the locals.
(Conversation continued at the Board bench regarding . this particular
area.)
Mr. Kenney expressed the opinion that he feels that he would like to
see the sidewalks go all the way through and felt that everyone will
agree. The Log Jam seems to be a problem because the local people who run
it actually have nothing to do with the Log Jam. It is out of their
hands, and everything is through a developer. Kenney discussed at one
point a road in the back. The Log Jam put in a leach field instead of a
septic system and it has a big hole. It is physically impossible to get a
road out back. There is an opportunity to tie some of the parcels
together (with the road). Mr. Roberts felt that the Log Jam would
probably go along with the sidewalk. Mr. DeSantis confirmed that the
roadway would be 30 feet.
The conversation regarding the road also brought into light the Court
House Estates, which are located in the back. Mr. DeSantis and Mrs. Mann
discussed the Court House Estates access, either from the roadway at the
Kenney property or the light at the Municipal Center. Mr. Roberts
explained that the reason this has come up is because they have made a
valiant effort to try to get another entrance into the Estates. He also
commented that, if parking was a problem for the Days Inn, perhaps the
adjacent owners could cooperate. Mr. Kenney said that the parking problem
has been discussed with the store owners.
Mr. Roberts discussed the topic of parking spaces. It seems that with
the two properties tied together, there will be some flexibility, where
one is busy, the other one is not usually busy. The Board has routinely
tried to prevent blacktopping any more than necessary and have allowed
reduced number of parking spaces, but allow the land (either gravel or
grass) for emergency parking or so that it could be used and set aside for
that purpose.
'--
9
?-?k
Mr. DeSantis said the he would like to see less blacktopping.
Mr. Kenney mentioned that if a road is going to go in, he would like
to remove all the parking in that area at that point and time and get an
easement for the property in the back, as he does not want the cars near
the road. Mr. Kenney pointed out that there are no outside entrances with
sliding glass doors. Mr. Roberts felt that would be a relatively minor
revision to the plan and not a big problem.
Mr. Charles Scudder, Engineer, said the Board is going in the right
direction. He said these are complicated problems to be looked at one at
a time, because all the properties relate to each other. He feels every-
thing that has been done has been done in light of that. He did not
accept Kenney's statement that a road cannot be continued out back. He
feels it is possible, might be difficult and might be expensive, but it
can be done. One criticism he would like to see parking around back and
see the deal with Mr. McCormack. As to the 30 foot right-of-way in the
north, there is a town regulation of 50 feet. Obviously there are
utilities. There is a new regulation of 24 foot wide pavement in a town
road. Mr. Scudder thinks a 30 foot right-of-way is satisfactory.
Mr. Scudder continued saying that the McCormack's also made a strong
point of getting to Court House Estates along the north boundry of the
County property and that is important. He feels the right-of-way is one
of the best remaining options. Mr. Scudder also wanted to point out that
Hardick Associates endeavors to allow for the movement of cars along the
front of the buildings. Therefore, it is feasible for the cars to migrate
up to Dunham's. That is not precluded, as he sees it. He feels it is a
good project.
Mr. Prime wanted to know if Mr. Scudder is content with the number of
parking spaces proposed in the Site Plan, relative to the use of the
property. Answer: Yes, because there is a great deal of parking asso-
ciated with Mr. Kenney's property in the south. He does not foresee any
problem. However, Mr. Prime asked specifically about the parking for this
Site Plan. The question was not answered, but a suggestion was made that
David Kenney write a reciprocal agreement to himself to protect the
parking issue.
Public Hearing Opened: no comment
Public Hearing Closed.
Mr. Martin read through the Site Plan Review Checklist. Regarding
Section D, Mr. DeSantis mentioned that Dunham's has a profile on the types
of materials to be used for the sidewalks, and it would be good to be
consistent. Mr. Kenney agreed to do that. Mr. Roberts said that an
Association was being formed. Mr. Kenney said he would like to see the
traffic continuous.
Under Section H, Mr. Macri brought up the topic of sprinkler systems.
Mr. Roberts felt that would be taken care of under another code.
-
10
)?--1
The Warren County Planning Board approved with modified conditions
(see attached, Page llA).
Mrs. Levandowski MOVED APPROVAL for Site Plan No. 31-87 Hi-Way Host
Motel, David Kenney. for the construction of 88 units to the existing
motel, because the applicant has met the concerns of this Board and has
the approval of the Town Engineer for this project. Included in this
motion is the request for a reciprocal parking easement between this
applicant and with the Adirondack Factory Outlet.
Seconded by Mrs. Kann.
pas.ed ...ai.o..ly.
There was a brief recess for 5 minutes.
nv BUSInSS
SITE PLAB BO. 33-87A
Carl E. Kelton, Sr.
Mr. Roberts stated that this is to construct a bUilding to be used for
motor vehicle sales and service in a HC-1S zone.
Mr. Steve Bishop represented the client and briefly reviewed the
Kelton business. Mr. Kelton is currently a truck dealer in White River
Junction VT. At that location they represent freight lines, D. & C and
some other brands of trucks. They have another outlet in Shelburne VT, as
well as car dealerships in Rutland, Burlington. This facility is being
set up for the sales and service of new trucks. It is the only function
at this facility and is the satellite facility for White River Junction,
where the main corporate offices are located.
The location was chosen because of it accessibility to 1-87, a large
volume of traffic coming off Rte 149 and entering Rte. 1-87 on the south-
bound ramp. This group has been to Warren County and received approval,
with two restrictions: 1) there was to be no entrance on the Gurney Lane
Road into the property on the north; 2) that the application outline a
tree-cutting plan to the Beautification Committee.
'-
Mrs. Mann's stated that the concept is very poor from the standpoint
that the traffic in that area is bad enough - aunicipal center business,
traffic entering and exiting from the Northway, West Mountain Road
commuters, Guerney Lane traffic, recreation area traffic. She also felt
great disregard for a truck business being across the street from the West
Mount Infirmary. The concept of trucks maneuvering in that area was not
11
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WARREN COUNTY
PLANNING BOARD
Warren County Municipal Center
Lake George, New York 12845
Telephone 518·761-6410
DATE:
October 14, 1987
RE: Queensbury SPR 31-87
TO: PlAnning & Zoning Department
Queensbury Town Office Bldg.
Bay & Haviland Roads
Glens Falls, NY 12801
HI-WAY HOST MOTEL
Route 9, east side
Gentlemen/Ladies:
At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board, held on the '14th
day of October , the above application for a site plan review to
add 98 motel units (2 story).
was reviewed, and the following action was taken. Recommendation to:
( ) Approve ( ) Disapproval s>() Modify with Conditions ( ) Return
Comment:
Applicant agreed to develop an access/service road along the front
of property and connected to adjoining properties to allow through
traffic. Sidewalk to be continued along Route 9.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is the policy of the Warren County Planning Board to follow the
procedures of the New York State General Municipal Law, Section 239-M,
with regard to Municipal Zoning actions that are referred to and reported
thereon. The following are procedural requirements that must be adhered
to:
1.)
The Warren County Planning Board shall report its recommendations
to the referring municipal agency, accompanied by a full statement
for such actions. If no action is taken within thirty (30) days
or agreed upon time, the municipal agency may act without such
report.
If the recommendation is for disapproval of the proposal, or
modification thereof, the municipal agency shall not act contrary
to such action except by a vote of a majority plus one of all the
members thereof and after the adoption of a resolution fully
setting forth the reasons for such contrary actions.
Within seven (7) days after the final action by the municipal
agency having jurisdiction on the recommendations, modifications
or disapproval of a,' referred matter ,such municipality agency
shall file a report with the Warren County Planning Board on
the necessary form~
2. )
3. )
John McGilvray, Vice Cþairman
1/'· fl':
"~""'/." 72-
o _~u 1Juu - z-~~
", 'Wyll ,Mae Bitner, Chairman
f?-9
practical. Mr. Bishop: Hundreds of trucks are in that area. Mrs. Mann:
That business is not appropriate in that area.
Mr. Martin read the memo from the Warren County Planning Board (see
attached, Page 12A). Further conversation ensued regarding an "colIJRercial
island" in the midst of a residential area. Also attached is a letter
from Charles Scudder. Consulting Engineer (Page 12B).
Mr. Bishop said there would be approximately 35 to 50 trucks at this
facility. There are approximately 500 trucks at White River. The company
is selling 100 trucks a month in New York State out of White River. That
is the basic need to get into this area. The hours are a nor..l workday
and are geared for their marketplace. Used trucks are taken on trade.
There are complete refurbishing facilities at White River Junction (this
would not be done locally). This would not be a warehouse.
Mr. Martin expressed concern about the sales/service, in that it might
turn into refurbishing sales - which might get into painting, used parts,
truck repair, gas, etc.
Mr. Roberts felt SEQR would come into this; the pollutants getting
into the ground water, oil tank for heating the bUilding, etc. Mr.
DeSantis asked about gasoline on site. Answer: There would be no
gasoline. Mr. Dybas asked how many acres of land? Answer: 19 acres. 6
acres on the initial project.
Mr. Roberts
from the Water
step yet.
felt the plans show lack of detail and mentioned a letter
Department. Mr. Bishop said they have not gotten to that
Public Hearing Opened:
Wilson Mathias: Gurney Lane resident
He is opposed to the project and shares the opinion about the use in
general in that it does not fit into the spot. To have 35 trucks in
the area in terms of visual impact is outrageous, let alone to cut
down the trees along the Northway. There are a variety of uses
permitted in this area that would fit in with what the County is doing
in this area.
Mr. Mathias wanted the Board to be aware of the fact that the Town
Board has declared the area of Rush Pond as a critical environmental
area. A copy was submitted to the Board (see attached, Pages 12C-1
and 12C-2). The resolution talks about a contour on the U. S.
Geological map. There is no question that this property comes within
500 feet of the 430 foot contour line. The significance of that is
that this becomes a Type 1 action under SEQR because it is within 500
of a critical environmental area. Mr. Mathias feels it would require
a full Environmental Impact Statement.
Mr. Prime asked about the Rush Pond Resolution, where the "area desig-
nated contour elevation 430 and all that within 500 feet thereof. II
12
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CARL KELTON, WESTMT. ROAD & ,GURNEY LANE
QBY-SPR22/87
"-'
The Warren County Planning Board recommended approval with the following
conditions:
I) That the applicant agree to the prohibition of any future use
of frontage along Gurney Lane as an~cce~s point on to the
parcel, due to traffic concerns. '
2) That the applicant outline, in a tree cutting plan to the
Beautification Committee, intentions for. tree removal along
the property adjacent to N.Y.S. R.O.W. for the Northway. The
applicant intends for high visibility along the Northway while
the Planning Board felt that selective cutting might be more
acceptable. The actual conditions should be discussed by the
Town Planning Board and Beautific4tion Committee.
COMMENTS
The Board discussed the potential expansion of the parcel and was
concerned with what could be located either by right or Site Plan Review
on that parcel, due to its size, or in that general H.C.-15 zone, that
would be in conflict with the other land uses in the general area. These
are Westmount Infirmary, Warren County Municipal Center Annex, possible
location of a N.Y.S. Police sub-station, residential properties along
West Mt. and Gurney Lane as well as the Town of Queensbury Recreation
Facility.
There were no major objections to the proposed project but
concer was expressed about the potential expansion of this property
jacent property for uses such as those outlined on the Highway
ercial-IS zone~
Auto repair shops" fas t food res taurants, diners,
bars,' public garage or gasoline station, Amusement
Centers, etc. or use currently saturating the land
uses from Exit 20 to Route 149.
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CHARLES H. SCUDDER
CONSULTING ENGINEER
BOX 792
GLENS FALLS, NEW YORK 12801
(518) 793-1475
November 19, 1987
MEMORANDUM
To: Supervisor Walter and'P.R. Chairman Roberts
From: C. H. Scudder, P.E.
Re: KELTON MOTORS, INC. (SPR 33-87)
In my opinion, this project should be pulled off the P.B. agenda
and returned to the applicant for serious planning and design
consideration. It should go back to the county for review.
This is a major, high-profile project propos,ed for a critical
location with serious cultural effects: County infirmary, nursing
home and municipal lands; town recreation park on Gurney Lane;
state police station and visual impact on the Northway - all of
these at the least.
Plans and papers have evidently been made by non-professional
people (i.e. non-licensed) who have not done a thorough job on
a matter that requires comprehensive examination. The exhibits
are sketchy, too small in scale, incomplete as to detail, and
unsupported by any sort of report. .
There are potential problems that have not been addressed: no
traftic study ,either exterior or on site; stormwater study;
basis of design for wastewater system; provisions for prevention
of petroleum pollution of groundwater or surface water, to name
a few. There is little on aesthetics. '
Is an expansion in the works, e.g. a truck stop and motel? A
Master plan is in order. What sort of,sign is proposed (truck
dealers like high-rise signs and lots of visual exposure). I
think a landscape architect should be engaged on this project.
Finally, Dan Kane advises that neither the County Planning
Committee nor the Facilities Committee of the Board of Supervisors
has seen this proposal (admittedly through a failure in communi-
cations with plenty of blame to go around). These bodies had
better have a look at what will profoundly affect their interests.
The land is zoned HC-IS.
cds,
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RESOLUTION IN OPPOSITION TO PROPOSED SITE PLAN REVIEW 33-87 CARL E. KELTON
SR.
RESOLUTION NO. 356, Introduced by Mr. Stephen Borgos who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mr. Ronald Montesi: '
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is aware that the Queensbury
Town Planning Board will be reviewing on November 19th the Site Plan Review 33-87
of Mr. Carl E. Kelton Sr. regarding the construction of a building to be use for motor
vehicle sales and service, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board wishes to let it be known that they are in opposition
to this proposal for the following reasons:
1. Concern for the traffic congestion on West Mountain Road and Gurney
Lane that would arise from this proposal.
2. The location of the 138+ - acres of Gurney Lane Recreation Acrea
is in closed proximity to this proposal, the board wishes to express their concern for
the pedestrian traffic, bike traffic etc. going and coming'from this major recreation
site.
3. The concern for the residents of the West mount Infirmary in regard
to added traffic noise and fumes that would be evident from this proposal
4. The possible danger to a critical area of environmental concern, Rush
Pond, which if damaged would affect the area of Glen Lake.
5. The Board wishes to make note that in the past a similar situation
at this location was turned down by the Queensbury Planning Board for ecological reasons.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mr. Borgos, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Walter
Noes: None
Absent: NOne
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... - '. . .... . "... ....
------- .
-.---.---.-------. '.....
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I, Darleen H. Dougher, Town Clerk o"f the Town of Queenøbury, Warren County,
New York, do hereby certify that 1 have compared the fòregoing with the
original relolution al lilted above adopted at a special meeting
of the Town Board of the Town of Queenøbury held on the 19th day of November
.
19 87 at which a' quorum val pre lent and thAt the
tranlcript therefrom and of the whole original thereof
18me il a correct
to date.
IN WITNESS THEREOF,
of Queen.bury, thie
1 heve hereto eet my hand and the S\~ of eaid Town
19th day of November , 19
s
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L
SlG~EDI~"-.A º'--
Dar een H. Dougher' ,
Town Clerk .
Town of Queenebury
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Does that mean that it is 500 feet within that elevation or 500 feet
within Rush Pond? Mr. Mathias: 500 feet within that elevation. I
think it describes the area to be affected as lying between Rush Pond
and westerly of the Northway. Mr. Mathias feels the Site Plan defin-
itely comes within that line.
Bob Robinson - Gurney Lane Resident
I am concerned about the recreational area in the summer and children
travelling on the road. The safety factor is very iaportant. Mr.
Robinson said he could not see a sales/service area without gasoline
or oil, along with the other hazardous lubricants.
Mark Brilling - owner of residential property on the west side of West
Mountain Road. Introduced letter from the Town Board (see attached,
Page 13 A).
Some other major concerns are the trees that they are taking down are
a buffer between the Northway and our homes. The others would be
fumes, logging, etc. It would only bring other siailar types of bus-
inesses to this area. The Home for Children that is our neighbor was
not taken into consideration. Mr. Brilling also mentioned that this
application was passed by the Warren County Planning Board, but no
notice was sent to the neighbors.
Regarding asthetics, this exit does not have a big truck stop on it,
etc., etc., it is probably the gateway to the Adirondacks. It is the
entrance to the Gurney Lane recreational area and to a residential
area in Queensbury that is unique in that our homes are spaced out -
3, 10, 12 acre lots - and we want to keep it that way.
We owned gas station for many years. They show no facilities for
handling waste oil, show gravel parking areas where oil leaks through
into the environment. We have a lot of concerns.
Bob Fallmann - Resident of Gurney Lane
I object to this because Gurney Lane is basically residential and
rural, and now all of a suddea we are taking commercial ventures and
putting them into a residential area. This would not be consistent on
Route 9, and it is totally out of character - traffic, pollution,
gasoline.
Mr. Roberts asked if there was anyone if favor of the project. No
person answered affirmatively.
Mrs. Robert Fallmann
Commented that if the Board allows this type of venture to come into
the area, then others would follow, which we do not care to have.
"-
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'- QVEENSBUR Y TOWN OFFICE BUILDING
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November 19, 1987
BAY AT HAVILAND ROAD
QUEENSBURY, NEW YORK, 12801
TELEPHONE: (518) 792-5832
Re: Application - Kelton Motors, Inc. (SPR 33-87)
Dear Planning Board Members:
There are several problems with the aforementioned application. First, I have reviewed
the information presented by Mr. Kelton's agent and find it lacking in the following aspects.
1. No detailed plans by licensed engineer and/or surveyor.
2. Survey would be necessary because of locations of public utility easements.
3. Nature of and location of project deserves landscape architect treatment.
4. Water Superintendent did not receive information requested in order to determine
if major Town waterline easement is affected.
The incompleteness of the application in no way deserves agenda status.
Further, this type of project at this location should be rejected because of the adverse
effect on the neighborhood:
1. The heavy movement of truck traffic at an intersection that all users of the
Town's largest recreation area, Gurney Lane, must bypass. Many of the users
would be bicycling children on West Mountain Road (location of entrance).
2. The adverse effect of truck noise, fumes on adjacent areas; namely West mount
Infirmary, the County's only residence for the ailing aged.
Aside from Ordinances and Regulations a project must be viewed in the context of the
health, safety and general welfare - the public interest. In land1use planning the purposes
usually identified with public interest are five - health, safety, convenience, economy,
and amenity.
Clearly in this case, the health, safety and amenity (visual appearance and compatibility)
are not in the best public interest at this location.
I strongly feel the demerits of the project far outweigh any merits. Therefore I would
urge the Planning Board to deny the application citing all these negative project characteristics.
~Ò~
Frances J. Walter
/3,';
SETTLED 1763. . . HOME OF NATURAL BEAUTY. . . A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE
¡7)P
Mr. Roberts said that, by now. the applicant should be getting the
general idea of the Board's and neighbors' feelings. Mr. Bishop answered
that his reason here tonight was to find out how the area felt about the
project, and "we found out." There is no question.
A neighbor was concerned that if this project came again before the
Board, would somebody call. Mr. Roberts said he would call.
Public Bearing Closed.
Mr. Bishop requested that the Site Plan No. 33-87A, Carl E. Kelton,
Sr. be tabled until he had an opportunity to consult with Mr. Kelton.
SITE PLAII 1IG. 34-87
Carlene J. Poster
Mr. Roberts stated this was· for the construction of a school for
Performing Arts (Classical Ballet, Modern Dance, Jazz Dance, and Piano) on
Bay road (west side), 1/4 mile north of Quaker Road, in a UR-5 zone.
Mr. Charles Scudder, Engineer, represented the client. Glens Falls
Ballet Center is a school for classical ballet, modern dance, jazz and
piano. The school's artistic director is Carlene J. Poster. The school
is presently located in the Chapman Building in Glens Falls, and prior to
that time it originated at the Grange in Glens Falls. Mr. Scudder has
filed with the Planning Board a statement which he made about the creden-
tials of the school.
The site plan is simple. The building is arranged in such a way that
sometime down the road a second building could be put in, or the proposed
building could be expanded. The children are brought for training and
dropped off and picked up. In regards to parking, Mrs. Poster said that
recitals ar~ usually held at ACC or other sites, but not at classrooms.
There is parking for 24 cars (I think enough). Mr. Scudder stated that
the parking is hard - necessary blacktop versus the Town ordinance.
Public water
Funeral Home.
ease. including
been planned.
including border
is available. The municipal sewer will stop at Singleton
Access and eggress is via a driveway and is designed for
a handicapped ramp aad parking. Correct illu1Ùnation has
Deciduous trees and evergreens with other ground cover.
of shrubs and plants.
Mr. Scudder took
present plans showing
plan for one now.
this opportunity to place an overlay on top of the
a possible second building, although there is no
'"
the
Mr. DeSantis
audience are
pointed
not the
out that the plans which Mr. Scudder showed to
same which were personally presented to the
14
):)1
Board. Mr. Scudder agreed that he did modify the parking, change the
circle and move the road.
Mr. Martin stated that the County Planning Board approved without
comaent. Mr. Roberts said that the neighbors approved without comment.
The Beautification Comaittee did not approve (see attached, Page 15A).
Mr. Prime said that he has a problem equating the fact that this is a
dance school versus an academic environment. Answer: It is a school for
the performing arts. Mr. Prime asked if there is a curriculum. At this
point Mr. DeSantis offered the definition of "school" froll the Town of
Queensbury Zoning Ordinance 193. "School means an institution housing a
curriculum, a plant consisting of adequate facilities, a qualified staff
to carry out its objectives.
Mr. Scudder introduced Mrs. Poster, Artistic Director of the center.
She reviewed the history of the center. Teaches children ages 3 through
adult, mostly 3 through 18. Each student in school studies at least 3
times a week, 1 1/2 hours each session. Students spend a lot of time in
the studios. Graduates froll school have received scholarships to proll-
inent cOlleges/universities. Students are there for a reason. Faculty
has excellent credentials. School is growing and we would like to lIove.
Ballet classes are accompanied by a pianist, only. People next door will
not have problems.
Mr. Prime asked if the students learn to read music. Answer: With the
exception of the piano students, the children do not learn to read lIusic,
but learn to count and have a good sense of rhythm. Mr. Prime asked about
discipline. Mrs. Poster: Said the students are very disciplined. She
related to the TV show PAKE. In answer to Mr. Prime, the school is a
profit organization; however, the Glens Falls Dance Company is non-profit.
Mr. Scudder asked about evolution of students. Answer: Everyone in
school, with the exception of youngest, some take 6 classes a week, do
homework there, they dance, dance and dance I SOlie of the more gifted
students have performed at SPAG, received scholarships at Skidmore, full
scholarships for dance. Mr. Scudder asked if a student could learn
equivalent dance at public schools. Answer: No.
In answer to several questions, Mrs. Poster offered the fOllowing.
There are approximately 100 students at school; hours are usually 4 p.lI.
to 9 p.m. Not in operation in regular sense on Friday, Saturday or
Sunday. There are two instructors and one pianist. Out of 100 students
there are 80 that study three times/week; and maybe another 25 that study
six times/week. This are 1 1/2 hours/class. They also do homework
there. There are 10 to 12 students/classroom. The maximum is 15. Two
classes going on at the same time. With an expanded facility, the goal
would be to have 150 students, everyone studying three times/week, each
class being 1 1/2 hours. My feeling would be that this is not going to be
a "factory."
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Ql)EENSBUR Y TOWN OFFICE BUILDING
~ ~
BAY AT HAVILAND ROAD
QUEENSBURY, NEW YORK, 12801,
TELEPHONE: (518) 792-5832
11/2/87
Queensbury Town Planning Board
Warren County Planning Board
From: Robert L. Eddy,~;chairman, Queensbury 'Committee for
Community Beautification
Re: Site plan #34-87 Carlene Posten .
Bay Road above Singleton Funeral Home
The Queensbury Committee for ~Community Beautification
is not holding a meeting in November as there are only two
applications we would ,normally review.
We do not see how the Planning Board
approving this application in view of the
denying a variance application for a similar
short distance up Bay Road.
can justify
Zoning Board
enterprise a
Furthermore, our Committee deplores clearing the land
prior to approval of the application (assuming this land is
next above the funeral home). In addition, the music that
might be heard from a dance studio possibly would not be
appropriate for the operation of a funeral home.
Should this application be approved please refer the
applicant to our Committee for presentation of planting
plans at our December meeting which will be held in the
lower level conference room of the Town Office Building.
'-
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/5"/ì
SEïTLEDI763. . . HOME OF NATURAl. BEAUTY. . . A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE
?-39
Students are from all different school systems: North Warren, Lake
George, Glens Palls, Queensbury, South Glens Palls, Saratoga.
Parents drop the children off and have 1 1/2 hours of "free" time.
Mr. Scudder offered that that has a bearing on the parking. 24 spaces is
ample. In downtown Glens Palls there are zero parking spaces.
Mr. Scudder requested that Mr. Martin read letters for the record,
which speak positively for the school: Singleton Puneral Home and
Garfield P. Rayaond (see attached, Pages 16A and 16B).
Mr. Prime asked if there would be problems conforming to suggestions
from the Board's engineer. Answer: No.
Mr.
location.
Roberts asked the Board about the
Consensus that there was no problem.
use
at
this
particular
Mr. Scudder brought up the problem of parking. He feels that he would
like to have less than the proposed 24 spaces. Mr. Macri asked about how
many students drive themselves. Answer: 1. There would be no problem of
traffic. Classes are 15 minutes apart, there are many carpools because
the students travel long distances frequently and there is not a demon-
strated need for the spaces. Mr. Roberts said that some of the parking
can be eliminated, BUT the land must be left available to increase it to
the town standard.
Public Hearing Opened: no comment
Public Hearing Closed
Mr. Roberts
Requirement for
design.
said
future
that Site Plan 34-87, Carlene J. Poster is TABLED.
consideration is submission of the most recent
SIn PLØ NO. 34-87
Alfonso P. Cattone
Mr. Roberts stated that this is to have a Real Estate office in a
residential home at 11 Pheasant Walk, in a SR-20 zone. Mr. Roberts said
that a petition was submitted in opposition to this Site Plan.
Mr. Cattone stated that the reason he entered the petition is to make
his position legal with the State Department. He emphasized that he is
going to be working entirely alone. He said the extent that his business
would affect the neighborhood would be a small sign outside his home
stating "A. Cattone, Real Estate Broker."
--
Mr. Cattone said
work with packaging
as far as working with clients, he would basically
land and work with builders. By working with
16
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GARFIELD P. RAYMOND
ATIORNBY AT LAW
320 BAY ROAD
GLENS FALLS, NEW YO~K 12801
(518) 792-0344
October 27, 1987
Dr. Gary Poster
11 Pine Street
Glens Falls, New York
RE: Bay Road Project
Dear Gary:
As per our previous conversations, please accept this letter
as a formal recognition on my part that I am in agreement with·
your proposed project. As you and I have discussed at length, I
believe that your project will enhance the value· of the
properties that surround it and will be a definite improvement to
the development of the Bay Road area.
12801
As I have indicated to you before, I have been authorized by
my neighbors in the past to represent them in certain matters
pertaining to variance applications and zoning changes as it
relates to property adjacent to mine. Although I have not
contacted my neighbors to speak on their behalf in this matter, I
believe that they would not oppose your project as they have
indicated in the past that they would be agreeable to any changes
that I felt would be in their best interest. Further, there were
certain restrictions and covenants on my property that would not
allow any commercial endeavors. As it was my desire to have this
clause removed, my neighbors entered into an agreement removing
this restriction from my deed which now allows me to utilize my
property in a commercial fashion if proper zoning requirements
are met. This would indicate that they are in agreement that the
property in this area will eventually be utilized as commercial
property as is evident by the commercial zones adjacent to your
property line.
I wish you luck in your endeavor. If I may be of further
service to you, please do not hesitate to contact me.
'-.
GPR/slj
1ft
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builders, 99% of the time he would not be bringing them into my office,
but would be going to their office. He purchased the Queensbury Tax Maps,
in order to do a mailing on the vacant land, and the reason being for the
purpose of working mostly with the builders. It is true I would work with
resale of homes, but it also would be my working alone, working with a
resale house and working with the clients on the outside. Mr. Cattone
offered the comment that it would not be truly a real estate office,
because he would be working by himself. And, if he had not put the
petition in, no one would have noticed it.
Mr. Cattone, in answer to a cOlIII.ent resarding employees, would
guarantee that there would be no employees. There are no covenants in the
deed. Mr. Martin set an example: If Mr. Cattone were to withdraw his
application and put his name outside his door, what would the role be of
the Planning Board? An answer was that it would be an enforcement issue,
not that of the Planning Board.
Mrs. Mann raised the subject of parking. Mr. Cattone guaranteed that
there would be no excessive traffic- he has sufficient parking for ten
cars in his driveway. As of to this day, he has not had clients to his
house. Mr. Cattone has only been here for one month. Mrs. Mann gave the
opinion that the development is new and having a realty business within
the complex is poor advertising for potential people who might want to
move into the neighborhood.
Mr. Dybas explained that those persons who have lived here for a
period of time do not want the neighborhoods filled with "little signs",
one after the other on a street. He asked, "where does it stop?" Mrs.
Mann said that people move into a single family neighborhood, particularly
because they want a new home, winding streets, safe place for children,
they don't want strangers walking into the neighborhood. It sets a
precedent for people to follow. If this neighborhood was watered down,
there would be no objections. This neighborhood is trying to get
established.
Mr. Cattone said the petition was brought by my neighbors without
knowing that I would be working alone, and it would not affect the
neighborhood at all. Mrs. Mann countermanded that it makes no difference.
Public Hearing Opened:
Charlotte Dubois: Peggy Ann Road
Mrs. Dubois
the zoning.
the area.
place.
stated that the main factor is that this is a violation of
She felt the zoning is one of the factors in moving to
We came from an area where this particular situation took
Mr. Roberts corrected Mrs. Dubois that what Mr. Cat tone is asking for
is not a violation of the zoning. Mr. Macri said that one cannot have
a sign, but a home occupation is allowed. Mr. DeSantis said that this
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is permitted, as long as he (Cattone) goes through this process, and
may not be as undesireable as Ms. Dubois feels it is.
Sandra Whalen: Peggy Ann Road
Ms. Whalen asked how long Mr. Cattone had been a broker. Answer:
Since 1964. Ms. Whalen: And have you always worked on your own?
Answer: No. Ms. Whalen stated that she has been in real estate,
worked on her own and out of her own home. She pointed out that
original intentions of working alone do not work out. If Mr. Cattone
wanted to get off the ground, his time would have to be increased,
there would have to be a staff increase, and people would have to go
to your home because they would need assistance to the site in
question.
Joan Demasic: Peggy Ann Road
Ms. Demasic spoke in regard to a covenant in the deed. Mr. Roberts
reminded Ms. Demasic that there is no covenant in the deed regarding
the area in question. Ms. Demasic also spoke against the application,
especially in the increase in traffic and the setting of a precedent.
Mr. Cattone again reiterated that the increase in traffic would be nil
and that he would not be sitting in the office - that is not where the
money is made.
Mr. Roberts suggested that Mr. Martin review the Site Plan Review
Check list. Mr. Martin explained to the public the purpose and contents
of the Site Plan Review.
Mr. DeSantis had a problem with Traffic Access, in that Mr. Cattone
could invite a group of people to his home, prior to inspecting a site.
Mr. Martin felt a problem lies in the adequacy of parking.
Section NOTES OP OTHER AREAS OP CONCERN had the following comments:
· impact of character of neighborhood;
· newly developed, residential area
· possibility of setting a precedent.
Mrs. Levandowski mentioned that the Board previously granted approval
for the same type of situation, and a week later an ad appeared in the
paper for additional sales people.
Mr. Cattone offered the information that he had, at one time, operated
a Century 21 office, which was in the top 10~ in the United States. He
does not want to do that anymore, he wants to work alone and just make a
living.
Mr. DeSantis felt that there other areas that are better suited for
this type of venture. It is an intrusion into the neighborhood. He also
referred to the Zoning Ordinance, Section 5.070, Page 24.
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Mr. Roberts said that, if the house were on the fringe of a residen-
tial neighborhood, there would most likely not be a problem.
Mrs. Mann mentioned that the Board had previously disapproved a Site
Plan Review for a realty office, even though the office was on a major
thoroughfare. The reason for the disapproval was because the home is in
an old, residential neighborhood that has no breakdown whatsoever of the
character.
Public Bearing Closed.
Mr. Martin MOVED DISAPPROVAL of Site
Cat tone, based on potential detrimental
residential neighborhood.
Plan
impact
No.
of
35-87, Alfonso F.
a newly-developed
Seconded by Mrs. Mann.
Passed 'naai_ously
SID PLAB NO. 36-87
United Cerebral Palsy Assoc. of the Tri-Counties
Mr. Roberts read that this is for the construction of an addition of
approximately 65 ft. by 45 ft. onto the north end of the existing building
(Educational Facility for the handicapped), at the Northeast corner of
Aviation Road, Mountain View Lane, in a SFR-20 zone.
Paul Cushing, Architect from Cushing, Dybas Associates, represented
the client. Mr. Cushing explained about the new building in relation to
the original building. The addition on Mountain View Lane will consist of
two classrooms, one toilet room, extension of a nursing quarter, and an
observation room. This is a continuation of their existing on-going
program serving the general area for the developmentally disabled
children. The only problem was regarding the original setback of 25'-0 in
1978; however, a variance was approved recently to allow the construction
in line with the present bUilding. Provided is a new sewage disposal
field serving two classrooms, and the field was made large enough to
handle an on-going additional four classrooms for the future.
Mr. Charles Scudder, Engineer, approved without comment.
Warren County Planning Board approved without comment.
Public Bearing Opened: no comment
Public Bearing Closed.
The checklist was waived.
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aY5
Mr. Martin MOVED APPROVAL for Site Plan No. 36-87 United Cerebral
Palsy Association of the Tri-Counties for the construction of the addition
of approximately 45 x 65 feet onto the north end of the existing building.
Seconded by Mrs. Levandowski.
Votes:
Yes: 6 (Levandowski, Dybas, Mann, Roberts, Martin, DeSantis)
Abstain: 1 (Macri)
...
SIn PUll RO. 37-87
Adirondack Pac tory Outlet Mall
Mr. Roberts read that this was for the Route 9 construction of an
additional building of approximately 35,000 square feet in a HC-IS zone.
David Kenney, OWner of the Hi-Way Host Motel and the subject plan,
gave an explanation of the project. The proposed bUilding will be a rear
addition to the present building, and there will be three road cuts along
the property line. There will be sidewalks and there will be parking in
the back - parking will be more than ade<¡uate. Mrs. Levandowski asked 1£
it is going to be one parcel. Answer: Yes - there will be a main hallway
from front to back.
Mr. Martin stated that the Warren County Planning Board approved the
project, with conditions. (See attached, Page 20A)
Charles Scudder, Engineer, discussed the driveway, putting the roadway
in back and on-site absorption. Both he and Mr. Kenney agreed that the
soil on his (Kenney's) property absorbs the moisture well, but the soil on
the west side of Route 9 is very different.
The County stipulation regarding the legal right of way was
discussed. Mr. Kenney said that there will be open vehicular ways in
front and back of the properties. Mr. McCormack stated that he felt a road
in the back would be more satisfactory for the vehicular traffic. This
was agreed by the Board.
Mr. Scudder has looked at the situation with several professionals and
agrees where the road should go. A storm water runoff study has been
prepared and it looks satisfactory. There will be on-site absorption,
soil placement was discussed. There are no further comaents.
'-
A statement was made that on the east side of Route 9, the water table
is 30-35 feet straight down, gravel. It is very free-draining. Great
Escape is the same - it is glacial gravel. On the other side of Route 9,
the soil was checked and it is 5% to 8% clay content, but it is compact-
ible, which is surprising. Mr. Kenney is using soil from the construction
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WARREN COUNTY
;¿~b
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PLANNING BOARD
Warren County Municipal Center,
Lake George, New York 12845
Telephone 518·761·6410
DATE:
November 12, 1987
RE: Queensbury
37 -\s'7
SPR27 /87 ~
TO: Planning & Zoning Department
Queensbury Town Office Bldg.
Bay & Haviland Roads
Glens Falls, N.Y. 12801
Adirondack Factory Outlet Stores
Route 9
Gentlemen/Ladies:
At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board. held on the 12th.
day of November . the above application for a site plan review for
the construction of an addition of approximately 25,000 sq.ft. to the
rear of the existing factory outlet store.
was reviewed, and the following action was taken. Recommendation to:
( ) Approve ( ) Disapproval <)() Modify with Conditions ( ) Return
Comment:
s ¿ 6 /T /-//ÎCH£ iJ
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) ~~~ 2. )
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3. )
'-'
It is the policy of the Warren County Planning Board to follow the
procedures of the New York State General Municipal Law, Section 239-M,
with regard to Municipal Zoning actions that are referred to and reported
thereon. The following are procedural requirements that must be adhered
to:
1.) The Warren County Planning Board shall report its recommendations
to the referring municipal agency. acco~panied by a full statement
for such actions. If no action is taken within thirty (30) days
or agreed upon time. the municipal agency may act without such
report.
If the recommendation is for disapproval of the proposal, or
modification thereof. the municipal agency shall not act contrary
to such action except by a vote of a majority plus one of all the
members thereof and after the adoption of a resolution fully
setting forth the reasons for such contrary actions.
Within seven (7) days after the final action by the municipal
agency having jurisdiction on the recommendations. modifications
or disapproval of a referred matter. such municipality agency
shall file a report with the Warren County Planning Board on
the necessary form.
o~~ ~ 4"kMJ
Wylla e Bitner, Chairman
oJofJ-
"John McGilvray. Vice Chairman
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ADIRONDACK FACTORY OUTLET STORES
QBY-SPR27/87
The Warren County Planning Borad recommended approval with the following
conditions:
1) That the applicant stated that there would be no further expansion
on the property;
2) That the stormwater management plan be approved by the Town's
Engineer;
3) That the curb cuts discussed be eliminated;
4) No additional signs be requested;
5) That the proposed sidewalk along the R.O.W. be extended to the
property immediately adjacent and that vehicular accessibility
be provided to those properties as close to the front of the
property line as physically practical and approval by the Town's
Engineer;
6) Prepare the proper engineering drawings and legal description
necessary to provide for the construction and placement of the
proposed sidewalk and vehicular access points as well as the
required filing procedures for a legally enforceable R.O.W.
(as part of parcels deed). Additional material that is
required by the Town's Engineer.
.;lð/3
~~~
area on the west side of Route 9, so next Spring will tell whether or not
this clay will move in Mr. Kenney's parking lot. This is the nature of
the soil and not the cause of the Northway.
Mr. Martin reviewed the Site Plan Review Checklist.
Mr. Roberts questioned whether the State would stop Mr. Kenney in
regards to closing some of the road cuts. Mr. Kenney did not think that
this could happen.
Mr. DeSantis MOVED APPROVAL of Site Plan No. 37-87, Adirondack Factory
Outlet Mall, for the addition of approximately 35,000 square feet, based
satisfactory review of the Engineer.
Seconded by Mr. Macri.
Passed .UBilloU8ly
Minutes prepared by Mary Jane F. Moeller, Stenographer
The Meeting was adjourned at 12:30 a.m.
w2J.ø-~
Richard Roberts, Chairman
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