1987-12-02
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QUEBlISBUI.Y TOWl' PLARBIBG lOAD
Workshop Meeting Held: Wednesday, December 2, 1987 at 7:30 p.m.
Present: Richard Roberts, Chairman
Frank DeSantis
Victor Macri
Hilda Mann
Susan Levandowski
R. Case Prime, Counsel
Paul Naylor, Town of Queensbury Road Supervisor
Ronald Montessi, Member Queensbury Town Board
Dennis MacElroy, Engineer
Mary Jane F. Moeller, Stenographer
Absent:
Thomas Martin, Secretary
Joseph Dybas
Chairman Roberts called this meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
PLAHlBD UNIT DEVELOPKIRT NO. 3
The purpose of the workshop was to discuss traffic and density of the
West Mountain Villages Inc. Representatives for the project included:
Michael Brandt, owner West Mountain Ski Center
Joseph T. Krzys, partner with Mr. Brandt and co-owner of New
Concept Communities, Inc., along with Arthur Wellman
Fred Howard, Engineer, from J. J. Johnson affiliate
Brad Johnson, Project Engineer, J. J. Johnson Associates
Mr. Krzys thanked the Planning Board for the opportunity to present
their plans in a special workshop. He presented a brief outline on what
has happened to the project over the past five months.
When the program was started in April of 1987, their plan was bas-
ically was for a housing community, with several recreational amenities.
The demographics showed that a development in the size that they had
talked about could be built over a 20-year period. In early 1987, along
with the original market study, an additional marketing study was com-
pleted looking at the possibility of West Mountain Village being made into
a resort. Interesting facts came out of the study and have been included
in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS). The market study
showed the following.
1. A need for a year-round resort in the northeast is very high, as
there is a shortage of this type. Resorts in existence are either
ski resorts, trying to be summer resorts or summer resorts. One of
the few summer resorts in New York State was the Lake George area.
There are the Finger Lakes, Long Island, Cape Cod in New England,
but no true year-round resorts in the northeast.
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2. The northeast resorts, in particular, were characterized as those
with low, permanent occupancy. Straton has over 1,000 units and
has 10 permanent homes; Loon Mountain has less than 101 of their
units occupied in the sumaer. In the West, the bulk of the units
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were not permanent homes, but 70% to 80% were second homes amd not
year-round residences.
3. The sales trend in resort areas is towards quarter sharing (parcel
sharing of ownership). In the past year, more quarter shares in
the major resorts have been sold than at any other time, including
the Poconos, the West and the East. The people were buying only a
quarter interest in a house and using it 13 weeks a year.
4. Vacation trends are
people are taking
the whole vacation
trend will continue.
more vacations, but shorter in length. More
three to four day vacations, which has changed
industry. Studies have indicated that this
5. In a recent state study, the Adirondack Mountains were shown as the
most sought after recreational area in New York State, in terms of
people wanting information. It out-stripped the Catskills, the
Long Island and the Finger Lakes area.
6. New York State has
port. Major booths
States from Canada.
made a commitment to upgrade its tourist sup-
will be put at the entrances into the United
7. Permanent resident homes and population have increased signficantly
in Queensbury, in the last twenty years.
8. It has been difficult to find out how the seasonal resident popula-
tion has changed. A study in 1975, which is the only study done in
this region by the Lake Champlain and Lake George Regional Council,
shows that there is a trememdous increase projected through and
beyond the year 2000 of seasonal residents. Those persons would be
buying homes and using them part-time in this area.
Based on the above information, what turned out to be a housing com-
munity concept, is going to be replaced by a resort concept. A second
home market will be focused upon, with many more amenities than orginally
projected. West Mountain then will become a second home community. The
implications to the town will be tremendous.
1. Resort communities have far less traffic than permanent homes.
Traffic does not come at peak times, as it does with permanent
residence; ie: a.m. to work, p.m. to home.
2. Less children for the school system.
3. In most communities studied, the taxes went down. The people who
owned the resort communities, paid taxes but did not have the
services required. There was not a commensurate increase in social
services, with the increase in taxes.
4. Tendency was to use the existing amenities at the resort.
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In regard to the preservation of time, the developers have taken the
liberty of making the following contacts.
1. Secured a major TV producer to have nationally televised golf and
tennis events at the site; ie: the Volvo Tennis Tournament.
2. A commitment was made to people such as Arnold Palmer and Jack
Nicklaus, for building the golf course.
3. Items that are in discussion and, in some cases, in negotiation:
· equestrian center, tying into trails already existing;
· health center;
· expanding quality of ski area;
· theatre;
· "Northeast think tank", having the capability of bringing in
national and international conferences
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4. Time has been spent with Disney Resort employees, discussing the
topic of park cleanliness, interior traffic and pedestrian flow.
5. Discussing with computer companies to build a house of the future,
with connections throughout the resort.
There will be employment for over 3,000 persons - 1900 direct and 1100
indirect, making it one of the largest area employers, and will generate
approximately $240 MK/year on economic impact. Meetings have been held
with persons associated with the Governor's office, and a commitment has
been made of community support, in order to make the development a
reality.
nAnIC STUDY
Fred Howard
Mr. Howard summarized the highlights of the packet that the Board has
been given. This is a conceptual summary of the traffic master plan pro-
posed for the sight. In respect with Mr. Krzys' marketing statistics and
studies, the information is not reflected in the traffic study. What is
included is traditional traffic generation rates and the taking of certain
credits which are permissible in accordance with accepted methodologies.
This report has been prepared against a PUD, which is fully developed in
the Washington D. C. area (Virginia), and feel that the numbers used with
the various credits, stand up well next to actual experience in the
Virginia case.
Mr. Howard understands that there will be a consulting engineering
firm that will review the Traffic Study and backup material that is
included. The concept presented at this meeting is going to remain the
same, with the modifications that have been discussed. Numbers shift in
the time frame, but the bottom line will ultimately be the same.
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Mr. Howard said that the project will happen over an extended period
of time, and the traffic demands will develop over the same extended
period of time. There is a proposed phasing plan, and the first phase is
modest. As the development occurs, there will be constant monitoring.
The level of service being proposed is D/E, which is the bottom range
of level service D. This is where the thresholds are reached or the point
where the improvements should be in place, so that threshold is not
crossed. Level Service D is the maximum capacity that the facility will
take without serious breakdown in the traffic flow. There are estimates
as to when the thresholds will be reached, but it is recommended that it
is done on a specific performance criteria.
The analysis begins with the approach routes to the site. There are a
number of exists off the Northway that will be used. Luzerne Road will
also be used. The major collector road would be put in at the very begin-
ning, as part of Phase I. It is the proposed road through the site,
coming out at Call Street, which is an extension of Corinth Road in the
town of Lake Luzerne; up through the site and access the Town of Queens-
bury. Modifications to the plan call for access points to be free of
conflicting turns and the intersections will function more smoothly and it
is felt that this is a better access plan.
It is felt that Exits 14 through 16 will be used to access the site,
instead of Exit 18 all the time; therefore, there will be many learned
traffic patterns. There are five access points to the site being pro-
posed: two at Call Street; one off of Luzerne Road; two off West Mountain
Road, which will service facilities existing at the bottom of the moun-
tain. An alternative to the internal roadway layout is being presented,
and this will be presented in the DEIS and stress the importance of using
Luzerne Mountain Road of getting to the site.
A conceptual proposal for Luzerne Mountain Road was given to the Board
and is in keeping with ASHTO (Association of State Highway Transportation
Officials) 3R standards. There are many things that can be done to
improve safety:
1. super-elevating curves (banking), so that vehicle passengers are
pulled into the curve.
2. installation of guide rails;
3. widening of shoulders.
These can be done with the existing right-of-way. There is a small
area where an additional right-of-way would be required, where there are
sharp switchbacks; ie: Tuthill Road. Banks would have to be moved back.
This can be done under the APA guidelines for reconstruction of roads.
PBASIRG PLAN
Phase I - Present to 1990
1. Show commitment to entire site with the construction of major
collector road, going through the site.
2. Luzerne Mountain road safety improvements.
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Phase II - 1991 to 1999
1. Addition of turning lanes off Call Street into the site.
2. Addition of climbing lanes.
3. Signalization:
Queensbury: West Mountain Road/Corinth Rd. intersection.
Lake Luzerne: Call Street
Phase III - 2000 to 2009
1. Widening of Corinth Road - Call Street to four lanes.
2. Modify intersections
Mr. Howard requested questions from the Board.
In regards to the Level of Service D/E, Mr. Roberts questioned whether
that level of service would be satisfactory. Mr. DeSantis stated that,
with the proposed methodo1gy, the point at which one starts to initiate
the improvement, is not very far from the point where the serious traffic
problem took place; ie: Latter part of Phase II - Signalization, may be
brought on by elements outside of the developer's control, and may require
other improvements which require longer lead times. As Mr. Roberts also
stated, he feels the Level of Service should be brought up, because
coordination with the county, state, etc. takes a long time.
Mr. Howard said he appreciates the comments and knows that sufficient
lead time is imperative. Mr. Krzys stated that, when they sell 125 houses
per year, the management is cognizant of the fact that certain improve-
ments must be made, in order to accommodate future needs. This will be
tied in with consultants and engineers, to remain "ahead of the game."
Mr. Roberts asked: 1) Are we going to be willing, at the Town level,
to accept APA's design criteria on the Luzerne Mountain Road? and 2) Who
is going to pay for all of this?
Mrs. Mann questioned whether people are really going to use Exits 14
through 16, instead of Exit 18. Mr. Krzys answered that they are the
shortest way to get to the resort. Mrs. Levandowski asked if the devel-
opers are planning to suggest that type of access. Answer: Yes. People
will use short cuts that will provide the fastest way possible to the
resort. Mr. Brandt verified that aspect of travel. He also stated that
it is a Town road, will put a burden on Saratoga but, on the other hand,
will provide areas for commercial ventures.
Regarding payment for the roads, Mr. Krzys mentioned that the town
could have the wherewithal to improve the roads. In Queensbury, the
recreation fees paid by the development could be allocated to improving
the roads; dollars from increased taxes, which would not be used for
social services; grants available for job-producing business of this
particular type. Mr. Krzys said that there would be sewer treatment
facilities on-site.
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Mr. Macri stated his concern about construction traffic, especially
the traffic going over the Corinth Bridge. He wanted to know how that
subject had been addressed. Mr. Howard answered that a separate construc-
tion phasing analysis had been done. Mr. Macri said that has to be
grouped in with the normal day-to-day traffic, because it is going to be
concurrent for so many years. The fact that turn lanes are not being
included until 1991, when that particular area is being developed, that is
going to be a problem with the traffic that is on the road now, especially
the construction traffic. Mr. Howard agreed that is a good point.
Mr. DeSantis requested that the traffic numbers for construction,
sales and residential vehicles be taken into consideration, in addition to
the substantial number of people that will be attending promotional events
(4,000 cars/day) to assist in the marketing of the resort. Those are
going to be happening concurrently through the early phases. Mr.
DeSantis felt that those numbers have not been addressed or anticipated.
Mr. Krzys said it has to be worked out with the town and is being
addressed in the DEIS report.
Mr. Krzys answered the statement about sales up front. While the site
is under development, it will be very difficult to take people to the top
of the mountain. We will be working mainly from a sales office, that may
not only be in Glens Falls, but at various locations in the country.
There will not be thousands of people coming individually to look at the
site.
Mr. Prime requested that the issue of traffic in the ski area be
addressed. Mr. Krzys stated that it is felt that not much more traffic
will be increased. Day-trippers will use the mountain the way they are
using it now. People at the top will be skiing down. The lift lines will
be controlled. There will be more snow making, improved chair lifts,
improvement of the existing buildings and five more trails.
Mr. Roberts felt that the Luzerne Road entrance was being de-empha-
sized and perhaps incorrectly. Mr. Krzys said that a lot had been learned
from the market studies in regard to the road system. The DEIS covers
this issue. Mr. Brandt said, as we learned this and saw the significance
of the traffic at the top of the mountain, the developers committed to
building the road. This entails many millions of dollars of up-front
costs and this has been addressed - - where the money is coming from, how
it is going to be done and how it is going to be financed. It is a very
major committment on the developers' part, to say up front that the road
is going all the way through. Mr. Roberts said that it does give the site
the second entrance, about which the Board had complained.
Mr. Brandt also said that the topic of ski lift's ability to take
people to the top of the mountain for a special event is not a minor thing
and could get into the way ski lifts are designed. Quite a bit of parking
could be put at the bottom send people up via ski lift. It must be a
vehicle which operates quite rapidly. It costs quite a bit.
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Mr. Montesi, of the Town Board, expressed his feelings that the worse
case scenario would be that Exit 16 does not turn out to be a good used
route. People from the north might use Exit 20. People from the south
might use Exit 18. His problem is that both roads are county roads and it
takes a long, long time for the county and state to act on various
projects. Mr. Montesi gave Quaker Road as an example of this particular
problem.
Mr. DeSantis requested to know about the traffic that is going to be
generated by the services that, particularly the quarter-share owners, are
going to be needed. What is going to come off-site that is not
residentially-related, construction-related, but is service-related?
Mr. Howard said that the numbers generated using these methodologies,
such as ten trips per day for a dwelling unit. Adjustments made have
brought that number down to 7.2 trips that day, after considering the fact
that the PUD is going to be internal circulation, whereas in a subdivision
there is external circulation. These were taken into account in the
numbers that were used. Mr. Krzys said that all the employees that are
being talked about are presently in the traffic study.
Mr. Roberts still expressed his concern about Luzerne Mountain Road.
Mr. Naylor stated that he does not know how we are going to get to an
acceptable point in that area. There are some sections of Luzerne
Mountain Rd. that are on ten feet of private land. He is not quite sure
what the town owns. Mr. Naylor feels that getting access to the land
might be quite difficult, as not all landowners would cooperate in the
relocating of the road. Mr. Brandt commented that every time a new house
is built on Luzerne Road, it makes the problem of improving the road more
difficult. He feels that we are passed the point of building a whole new
right-of-way, and that concentration has to be on the improvements with
cuts, fills and straightening.
Mr. Roberts commented that to accomplish in the improvements of the
road would have to be a commitment by the Town Board, if the PUD is
accepted as a concept. Without being able to depend on the improvement,
that might scuttle the project. He continued by saying that, if the
present road is kept the way it is, the town would be sanctioning a high
density, residential development in an unsafe situation. Hr. Krzys
pointed out that it is a road limited for high use traffic, and that it is
not necessarily unsafe. The developers want to modify it for high use
traffic. Mr. Brandt pOinted out that there are not a lot of accidents on
Luzerne Road most of them happen at the crest, especially when the
drivers are going too fast.
Mr. Roberts asked about the 10% grades on the internal roads.
Answer: Host of the roads are 1% to 61, some are 8%. Only a couple of
spots are 10%. The developers would like the flexibility to go to a
higher percent, but only for a short distance. Mr. Brandt said in Vermont
some of the roads he measured were 351.
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Mr. Howard pointed out that, even if the major improvements were not
passed, there still are some minor improvements that can be ~ade. The
situation has to be dealt with as it is.
DENSITY STtJ])Y
Brad Johnson
Mr. Roberts prefaced Mr. Johnson's review by stating the Board's feel-
ing at the first meeting was that the project was not a "go" at that time
because of the density of the project, and the Board did not want the
developer's to spend that kind of money. Also, the way the PUD language
is written, the Board should not even be reviewing the project at this
time, in regards to the density request; a re-zoning should be obtained
first as a separate process. We asked the Town Board to addressed this
issue, and they have discussed it at some length. Mr. Roberts thought the
town attorney was supposed to be drafting a letter on the subject. As of
the date of this meeting, there was no letter.
Mr. Prime questioned just what it was that was being discussed, are
things in "limbo" regarding the density and how is it to be modified. Mr.
Roberts answered that the PUD clearly states that the Town Board does not
have the authority to increase the density in a Planned Unit Development.
There has to be a re-zoning. Reference was made to Article 4 of the PUD.
Mr. Krzys said it was his understanding that there has to be an appearance
before the Town Board, the Town Board has to send in a request for re-zon-
ing to the Planning Board. It is the same process we are going through
now - we have to do a review, DEIS, and then it goes to review by the Town
again. We have to abide by the ordinances.
However, Mr. Krzys asked permission to review the density, even though
the density per acre requirements have not changed. Mr. Johnson said that
several reports have been accumulated and that none of the findings say
that the proposed density is inappropriate for the site. The land will be
able to handle the densities. The following chart was shown:
VEST MOUNTAIN DIVBLOPHBNT CBAlACTlJ.ISTICS
1. Minimum visibility from the Town of Queensbury, Glens Falls and
surrounding areas. Perhaps some rooftops will be seen. These are
generally slopes that are over 30S. Areas of development are not
within these areas. There will also be a minimum amount of light-
ing visible from the town.
2. All road grades will be less than lOS, the majority of them ranging
from 1% to as. The 10% will be used in minor, small amount.
3. Erosion control methods
water bars, matting to
proposed slopes over 15%.
will be
protect
implemented, such as hay bales,
the slopes from runoff, on the
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4. A storm water management system will be provided, which will return
all the water back to the natural waterways and not exceed the
historic levels.
5. Provision of a sewer and water system adequate to handle the
density which is being proposed.
6. A Traffic Master Plan will be prepared to handle the traffic
issues.
SLOPE CLASSIPICATION
Acres
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241
178
174
% Slope
o - 15
15 - 30
30 +
% of Site
40.6
30.0
29.4
The housing and roads which are being proposed on the site will cover
about 12% to 15% of the total site, or 70 to 75 acres. The effect of the
density which is being proposed would easily be handled in the 0 - 15%
areas. The density is not in excess to what the land itself will hold.
Mrs.
Answer:
75 acres.
acres.
Mann asked about the 593 housing units on 70 to 75 acres.
The housing and roads to access the housing will take the 70 to
The tennis facility, golf course will be additional to those
Mr. Krzys said that the reason for cluster housing is to confine the
houses to a particular area, minimize the amount of roads and parking
lots. Part of the proposal is to ask for cluster zoning for cluster use
of housing, so that a minimal amount of land can be used. If eight units
per acre is discussed, that is not high density for cluster housing. High
density for cluster housing is 30, 40, 50 and 60 units per acre. This
really low density.
The multi-family plan that is proposed will average about 8 units to
an acre, the single family will be two units to an acre. The units will
not be sold in less than half-acre lots. In regards to the cluster
housing, Mr. DeSantis attempted to clarify the number of units per acre,
once the single family units, roads, land, etc. have been taken into
consideration. He felt that the number per acre was twelve. Mr. Krzys
said that the actual housing only sits on thirteen acres, rest of acreage
is for the land. Mr. Johnson said the actual numbers for the cluster
housing will range from four to twelve units.
Mr. DeSantis felt that the cluster-type of housing is possible. Mr.
Krzys stated that they are talking about 0% to 15% slope; however, there
are also situations where a home is put on the edge where the developers
are getting beyond the 15%, so the construction is actually in the 15% to
30% range. Mr. DeSantis asked how far along the developers were with the
mapping, noting that perhaps there will be areas that look like 15% to
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30%, and actually they will be more or less flat. Answer: For housing
purposes, that is true.
Mr. Roberts asked if there will be housing in the 30% area. Answer:
Yes. To take advantage of certain views, that might happen; however, there
are very few areas. Generally. 80 to 85% will be on the 0% to 15% slope.
Mr. Roberts doubts if they (the Board) want anything on a 30% slope.
Mr. Brandt felt that there is a question that really has to be
addressed. West Mountain is a ski resort, and most people in Queensbury
do not live at a resort. A resort is a unique opportunity and what makes
it valuable is the slope of the land. What makes it unique is that there
is a 0% to 15% for access, for sewerage. for handling the normal problems
where that gradual access is needed. What makes it really unique is that
the 15% to 30% creates the views. So being built internally are golf
courses, which open up the forests and make beautiful views available.
Housing is put out near the edge of where those dropoffs happen and
advantage is taken of that view. Enough screening is left so no one is
insulted with the house. It really is different that what is being done
in the rest of the town. It is matter of the manner in which it is looked
at - is it an industry we want in the community? People have paid a great
deal in the areas which have been built. The market we are going to be
looking at are those who now have million dollar homes, with million
dollar furnishings inside.
Mr. Krzys stated that it is not their intention to go over 30%. It is
feasible to build a house with a 20 degree or 30 degree slope, it is a
matter of how the house is positioned. Houses can be built so they cannot
be seen, the roads are 10% or less grade to get to the house. so it is
proper erosion control, etc. We are not asking to build houses that are
dangerous. unsafe, causing terrible views, etc. We are going to build on
land that will support the house. The town engineers are going to have to
determine that, if we (the developers) propose those types of houses, it
is engineeringly feasible, or if it is an eye sore. We do not want to
build anything that will be unattractive to the town environmentally.
Development will be hidden by trees, have right grades. right sewerage,
right water and everything to make sure the house can be built. That is
what we are asking to build some houses in areas where they can be
built.
Mr. Johnson, in answer to the emphasis on 30% slope, said in actuality
the ground that we are proposing to build on in the 15% to 30% range, is
probably under 20%. There are very few areas and, if it was. it would be
a matter of a housing unit breaking over that area. Mr. Johnson said he
has actually worked on developments where the construction is at 45%
slope, and it has done a very nice job and the homes sell for large
amounts of money.
Mr. Roberts said he was sure it can be done, but that he was not sure
if it is what we want. Mr. DeSantis verified that this whole area is
substantially different than what we have. Mr. Roberts referred to the
clustering density and that normally undevelopable land is thrown out.
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Mr. Johnson stated that if the ground that is considered unacceptable is
taken out for development, "yes" they would be over the one unit per
acre. But the density they are asking for would fit on the ground com-
fortably. Mr. Krzys said the purpose of the Planned Unit Development is
to come in with a plan whereby the land, with a good plan, will support
the housing that is being promoted and the uses that are being promoted.
If that is true, that is what a Planned Unit Development is about, both
historically and by the intent of the Town Board. All the developers are
doing is what the intent is. We have put together a plan that shows that
this piece of land can support the amount of housing we are talking about.
Mrs. Mann brought up the topic of property bi-soils, which have severe
limitations for water management. Mr. Johnson said that the majority of
the property is bi-soil; however, what the PUD is talking about is the
limitations, and that we have to start implementing erosion control
methods. As far as the water-holding capacity is concerned, the water is
porous and drains very well, so if ponds were to be put in that particular
area, they would have to be lined. As far as the actual ability to build
on the soils is concerned, there is no problem.
Mrs. Mann asked for further justification regarding the density,
traffic and soil. Mr. Krzys said their concern is to get the study to the
engineers. The developers' plan is to try to get an opportunity as
quickly as possible to meet with the engineers and make sure that what has
been put together is complete, so that when the DEIS is submitted, it is a
full DEIS and will be acceptable to the town and the Planning Board. We
have also wanted to get feedback from the Planning Board regarding
construction and traffic during the beginning phase, etc. so it all can be
addressed. Now that this meeting has been held and engineering consult-
ants secured, the process can move forward.
Mr. Roberts asked Mr. Montesi to clarify the letter which Wilson
Mathias, attorney, will be writing regarding the Town Board's decision as
to whether or not the density can be increased, according to the PUD. Mr.
Montesi said that one of the points raised was whether or not the Planning
Board was going to conceptually approve or disapprove this project; not
withstanding the density. If you do not like the density and address the
density issue as part of the PUD, you take that option, notwithstanding
what the Town Board will say. You can say "no", we do not want the
density and that is final. Mr. Montesi said he believes the Town Board
may be taking that approach also.
Mr. Montesi would like to have the Planning Board address the density
issue and whether we can judge, as layman. Also, what is being done with
the sewerage, what is being done with the water. With increased density
there is a lot of concern. The water tower in Queensbury, the newest
built, is 610 feet. The major part of this development is above that
level and will a new tower be required, and who will bear the burden.
Regarding sewers, will Glens Falls be involved or will there be a treat-
ment plant on top of the mountain.
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Mrs. Mann commented that if that type of density is going to be
allowed, she is sure the engineers can come up with a way to carry out the
sewer and bring up the water. The problem is whether or not that density
is going to be allowed. Hr. DeSantis felt the question is very philosoph-
ical. It is hard to separate density from the questions that Mr. Montesi
was asking. It is important to talk about numbers per acre. The Town
Zoning ordinance has a current status of one unit per 5,000 square feet of
land. Conceptually, to be talking to the Town of Queensbury about numbers
which approach 12 or above, is much different than what is being dealt
with, and that is not getting into all the issues impacted by that
number. It is imperative that a clustered aspect be defined.
Mr. Krzys answered with a statement that they are building something that
does not exist in Luzerne or Queensbury. This is not the typical develop-
ment for this area and, because of this, we would like to be treated in a
way that is consistent with what is good planning and engineering. If
that has been done, then we would like to be able to proceed with what we
are doing.
Mr. DeSantis requested that the Board be shown what 12 or 16 units per
acre would look like. Not an architectural drawing. Mr. Macri asked
about the impacts that have taken place in other areas and what the
impacts have done. Mr. Krzys offered to arrange a trip to Loon Mountain
to see the cluster development in that area. Ki11ington was also men-
tioned and that those cluster units were 12 per acre. Hr. DeSantis
brought up the concern of fire departments. Would West Mountain need one
on top of the mountain?
Messrs. Macri and DeSantis agreed that we need to discuss with someone who
has done this before and has learned from that practice - good, bad or
indifferent. If we are going to evaluate this objectively, let's try to
do it the best way possible. For us and for you (the developers), it
means getting as much information as possible.
Mr. Macri commented that certain areas have to be looked at; namely, does
Queensbury need a resort, can Queensbury accept the density and what is
this going to be to the town forty years down the road? In addition, Mr.
Roberts pointed out that there are constraints to be dealt with, and that
some of the matters should be alternatives in the DEIS.
Mr. Krzys said that the developers' appearance before the Planning Board
earlier was to get a recommendation, subject to a DEIS. The spirit of the
Board at that time was not to do that, because it was felt more informa-
tion was needed for a project of this size. The developers felt that the
project was good and that it will be an asset, not a liability, to the
town and went forward. The DEIS is now prepared. Density cannot be con-
sidered without water and sewer. The spirit that we feel comes from the
board is that density means "too many houses," with the assumption that
there would be proper water and sewer. That is what we have attempted to
address at this workshop. The BEIS is going to address this issue in that
there will be proper water and sewer, roads and percentages of grade.
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;) It; /
Mr. Macri commented that he was not sure if it was too many houses or too
much activity on the land. There are other amenities. The whole activity
of the project is going to affect the entire community.
Mr. Krzys thanked the Board for having the special meeting.
Mr. Roberts adjourned the meeting at 9:30 p.m.
(r;¿L! ~ ~
Richard Roberts
Queensbury Town Planning Board
Chairman
Minutes prepared by Mary Jane F. Moeller, Stenographer.
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