1988-01-19
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QVBDSBnY TOW PLADI1tG lOAD
Regular Meeting Held: Tuesday January 19, 1988 at 7:30 p.m.
Present: Richard Roberts Chairman
Susan Levandowski
Joseph Dybas
Hilda Mann, Acting Secretary
Frank DeSantis
Victor Macri
R. Case Prime, Counsel
Mary Jane F. Moeller, Stenographer
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Chairman Roberts called the meeting to order at 7:40 p.m.
Corrections to the December 15, 1987 minutes are as follows:
Page 13, Site Plan No. 40-87, United Auto Service Corp.: any
reference to Walter Musso1ini, should be Walter Ucce11ini.
With no further corrections, the minutes from December 15, 1987 stand
as written. Action on the minutes from the regular meeting on November 19
and the workshop on December 2, 1987 will be taken at the next regular
meeting.
OLD BUSIOSS
SUBDIVISIOR RO. 17-86
Queen Victoria's Grant, Phase III
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Mr. Roberts read the application for FINAL APPROVAL of 34 lots to be
used for duplexes on Peggy Ann Road, SR-20.
Mr. Robert Stewart, lawyer, represented the client and stated that,
since the approval of Phase II in November 1987, Phase I is 100X started
and Phase II is 60X started. In order to keep the particular crews busy
during the winter on road work, foundation pouring, etc., a request is
being made to start constructJon on Phase III.
Mr. Roberts requested clarification on the specific unit progress of
Phase II, which consists of 20 lots (40 units). Answer: building permits
have been granted for 20 lots; water hookups installed for 20 lots; com-
pletion of clearing on 20 lots. Footings have been dug in 13 out of 20
lots; 9 out of the 20 lots have footings poured; and 6 out of the 20 lots
have foundations laid up. Two more foundations have been started, but are
incomplete.
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Mr. Roberts expressed the Board's uncomfortable feeling regarding the
manner in which this review has progressed, unfortunately due to the
Board's handling of the matter. Language clarification is to be made to
the plan, so this will not happen again. Of particular mention, was the
greater than 60X degree of completion, which would enable the Board to get
the feeling of the impacts created by one phase, before continuing to the
next phase.
Mr. DeSantis requested an enumeration of which lots are at which state
to be submitted in writing for the file. Mr. Stewart mentioned he did
have a color-coded map, but a written narrative was still requested. Both
of these documens will be maintained in the file.
Mrs. Mann read a January 19 letter from Charles Scudder, Consulting
Engineer, which stated that the lOO-scale layout for Phase III of Queen
Victoria's Grant has been reviewed and there were no objections.
Mr. Stewart said
the exception of the
However, a subsequent
II and Phase III.
that all approvals were received in November, with
Water Dept., which stated approval of Phase I only.
letter was submitted that stated approval of Phase
In response to Mr. DeSantis' question regarding the number of approved
lots up to this point and time, Mr. Stewart said that there are 20 in
Phase II; 46 in Phase I; and 34 in Phase III, which makes lOO. How many
are completed as to construction? Mr. Stewart said that a number of the
lots would have c.o.'s; however, 22 would have been completed if Niagara
Mohawk had not been so short-handed. Mr. Gerald Goldie stated that
Niagara Mohawk has a rule, which ties into the Board's rule. That is they
(Niagara Mohawk) will not accept the builder's maps until signed by the
Board's chairman; the Board's chairman will not sign the maps until the
work is completed; after the work is completed and the client has applied
for the building permits, then Niagara Mohawk is approached who plans out
the job. Niagara Mohawk is very far behind and some units are being built
by using propane gas. l6 units have been sold and none are able to be
closed. Niagara has informed the developers that maybe power will be in
by February 1, but February 18 for sure. This has lead to a great prob-
lem; however, the client is willing to put up a bond to verify that the
work will be finished, as is done in other towns.
Mr. DeSantis explained that the term "60X constructed" meant c.o.'s..
At this time, there is no way of measuring the impact of a 200 unit
development, for which we now have to give final approval. But, at this
time, no one lives there and with luck someone may live there in March,
(pending power). In any case, that is only l6X of the approved units. We
were looking for a feeling and that is the reason for 60X as the number of
the impact. Now we have no reading and we are three phases in. This
information is absolutely necessary, in order to re-draft some law and
give us a handle on the impact of this sort of thing.
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Mrs. Mann mentioned that the Board does traffic studies, and engineer-
ing reports' and all types of projected studies can be done on paper, but
in reality there are many other problems, when combined with other develop-
ments, etc. That is why the Board wants subdivision phased. Even though
there is an attempt to cover all aspects of the problem, proof is not
there until the divisions are completed. Mr. Goldie said that it makes it
very difficult for a builder to buy land. Mrs. Mann: That may be, but it
may be a risk that has to be taken, because the Board feels the quality of
life here should be such that it would be worth taking. Mr. DeSantis
explained that the Board's goal is to make it more difficult, but also the
goal is to do a better planning job, rather than a reacting job. The
Board's concern is the people who buy the units, and not from whom they
buy.
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Mr. Stewart recalled that Tom Flaherty's initial letter with the first
approval approved everything, it was Paul Naylor's letter that was in
question. His first letter said that he approved Phase I. When the
subdivision came up for Phase II, he then submitted in November a letter
in which he approved Phase II and Phase III. That letter has been filed.
The water report was approved in early summer.
There was no public hearing on this project.
Mrs. Levandowski MOVED FINAL APPROVAL of Subdivision No. 17-86, Queen
Victoria's Grant, Phase III, with the note that the developer or represent-
ative will be submitting a color-coded map, in addition to a written list
of lots in their respective stages of completion. This project has the
approval of our engineer.
Seconded by Mr. Macri.
Passed unanimo.s1y.
Brookfield Estates, Phase II
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SUBDIVISIOR NO. 11-87
Mr. Roberts read the application as 15 lots at the south side of
Sunnyside Road, 3,000 ft. east of Ridge Road, SR-30.
Mr. Richard S. Morse, Morse Engineering, represented the project, and
stated that the last time there were concerns regarding a through road.
There was a ruling in the favor of the developer that the road was not a
requirement, and there was no concern with opening up and dedicating a
right-of-way through the development.
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The other concern was water drainage. Shown in the final plan is a
closed drainage system with perforated pipe that interconnects with the
existing system of Phase I and discharges in an existing ditch line.
There were concerns of a southern owner that the discharge would increase
his flow; however, there will be no increase in flow up to and including a
ten-year return.
Other than the above-mentioned items, no other changes have been made
just some cleanup of details. This is the end of this particular pro-
ject. Mrs. Mann read a January 19 letter from Charles Scudder, Consulting
Engineer, stating approval. Discussion ensued regarding whether Prelim-
inary Approval was tabled/approved in October, in addition as to whether
there was a Public Hearing. It was, however, determined that the Public
Hearing was opened, because of a neighbor's testimony, and that the
application was tabled, awaiting an engineering report. No Preliminary
Approval was given at the time.
Mr. Dybas MOVED PRELIMINARY APPROVAL of Subdivision No. 11-87, Brook-
field Estates, Phase II, having met the requirements and having our Town
Engineer satisfied as far as runoff requirements and drainage.
Seconded by Mr. DeSantis.
Passed uBanimous1y.
Mrs. Mann MOVED FINAL APPROVAL of Subdivision No. 11-87, Brookfield
Estates, Phase II.
Seconded by Mr. DeSantis.
Passed unanimously.
SITE PLAN NO. 33-87(A)
Carl E. Kelton, Sr.
Mr. Roberts stated that this Site Plan has once again been tabled at
the applicant's request. The Board felt that there should be a policy
regarding applicants who consistently table their projects. Mr. Roberts,
however, felt that there can be no policy in the middle of this particular
application. He said that, once the new Town Planner is in place, hope-
fully a harder line will be taken as to the regulations and what would be
required in this instance. This will be discussed with the Town Attorney,
Engineer, Building Inspector, etc. A lot of these things, with which the
Board is now struggling, will be screened.
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Mr. Macri brought up the subject of when the application is tabled/-
withdrawn by the applicant/Board. At this point, that person calls the
secretary, who scratches it from the agenda. Mr. Roberts said the Super-
visor has now insisted that withdrawals be submitted in writing. In this
case, a letter will be written to Mr. Kelton and inform him that, unless
he has a completed file for February's proceedings, it will not be on the
agenda again and he will have to re-app1y. This type of instance will be
discussed with the Town Planner and, if agreeable, it will be a new
policy.
SITE PLAN NO. 38-87
Richard Andrus
c/o Conrad R. Decker
Mr. Roberts stated the application is for retail sales of snack items,
in addition to gas sales at the Getty Station. This location is at the
corners of Routes 9L and 149, HC-1A, across the street from Len and Pegs
Restaurant.
Mr. Richard Andrus, representative of Getty Petroleum, discussed the
project. There are some revisions, because of the Beautification Commit-
tee recommendations, and we have presented a new atmosphere.
· Remove a 15 ft. x 15 ft. kiosk;
· Place a 16 ft. x 28 ft. building on the sam island;
· Removing actual pumps to rear of the island;
· Leaving four remaining pumps to front half of the island;
· No increase in existing storage, paving, curbing;
· Added landscape to satisfy needs;
· Added dumpster;
· Provided parking.
The remainder of the site will remain unchanged. Mr. Andrus said that he
had not received a letter from the Beautification Committee, regarding the
meeting on January 9. Warren County Planning Board, at their monthly meet-
ing, extended Preliminary Approval, subject to the Beautification Commit-
tee's approval.
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In answer to Mr. Prime's question regarding the gas pumps, Mr. Andrus
said that two will be removed to the rear of the island; therefore, there
will be only two fueling positions. There will be four pumps in total,
two Super Unleaded and Regular Unleaded on each side. Same tanks, all the
changes are on the surface, except there will be a new foundation for the
new building.
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Mr. Roberts asked about the other bUilding. Answer: The other build-
ing has not been assessed at this point. Getty just acquired a large acq-
uisition of properties, and it has not been addressed. Presently, it will
remain in its present state. If there was to be any demolition/reconstruc-
tion, it would be brought in as a separate application. We are not look-
ing at the entire parcel, just a change on one part of the parcel. Mr.
Andrus explained to Mrs. Mann that this is the same ownership.
Mr. Dybas requested to know about the products being introduced.
There will be coffee, no groceries, candies, cookies. It is a customary
convenience store. Mr. Dybas explained that Getty does not go for the
large snack outlet. In reference to the land acquisition and the other
building, Mrs. Mann expressed concern that there might be something else
going in. Mr. Andrus did verify that nothing has been decided. There is
an existing employee bathroom facility and public rest room to be
provided.
The total parcel is 500 ft. x 240 ft. Mr. Roberts pointed out that
there is room for more than one business, in a Highway Commercial zone.
He said that, if approved, it would be subject to an attachment of the
Beautification Committee's approval, once it is received. The building
will have to be there as part of the property, until a decision is made as
to what to do with it. Mr. Dybas pointed out he does not want it to sit
there and "crumble" for the next ten years, and the Town does not need it
as an eye-sore, especially in that busy intersection. Either do something
with it or destroy it.
Mr. Andrus advised the Board that he did make a request to know what
will be done with the new land and building, but was told that, since this
is only one part of a large acquisition of several parcels, no decision
has, been made. Mr. DeSantis feels that the Board does have the right to
know what will be done with the land, before approval is given. Mr. Dybas
said that Getty is very slow in making up their minds, and Mr. Roberts
asked if the project should be held up until a decision on the use of the
land is known. Mr. DeSantis' main concern is that, because of the size
of the entire parcel and the way it is zoned, something could be put on
the property without the Board knowing about it. If the owners cannot
advise the Board now, then an approval stipulation would be that no fur-
ther use be made of the property without Site Plan Review.
Public Bearin¡ Opened
Len Hastings from Len & Pegs:
Mr. Hastings requested a finer definition of is meant by snack items.
· Candy ~ars, cigarettes, coffee counter, snacks;
· No upright coolers, no microwave or preheated sandwiches;
· No chef dinners or food preparation;
· No seating, but 12 ft. coffee counter;
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. Ice cream, shelving for chips and such;
. Counter is more for on-the-road type of coffee.
Mr. Hastings was concerned about the Getty rest room, yet he said the
Getty customers are constantly being sent across to his restaurant to use
the facilities. Going across Route 149 is a safety hazard to the custo-
mers. Mr. Andrus did point out that there will be a public bathroom in
the new facility, so customers will not have to cross the street. Mr.
Hastings pointed out that he would like to see his customers (Len and
Pegs) use his facilities and the Getty customers use their facilities.
Mr. Hastings discussed why there has to be a l2 foot coffee counter in
a gas station that does not prepare any food, only sells snack items and
has no food preparation. Mr. Andrus confirmed that there are no seats. A
further discussion regarding this topic ensued. The Board did not agree
with Mr. Hastings' concern and felt that the space would be used by neces-
sities in carrying out the proposed business.
Mr. Dybas further explained the small, store-type operation of a typ-
ical Getty business. There are upright coolers for sodas, shelving for
candy bars and cookies/donuts and articles of that nature. Coffee counter
can be used for two-pot coffee maker, perhaps maps for travelers, etc.
The idea of this concept is to buy the gas, coffee, take the coffee and
go. This procedure takes about 5 minutes.
Mr. Hastings was satisfied
cia11y with the public safety
using the respective rest rooms.
this particular subject.
that his concerns were being met, espe-
of customers not crossing Route 149 and
Mr. Roberts thanked him for bringing up
Public Hearing Closed:
Mrs. Mann MOVED APPROVAL of Site Plan 38-87, Richard Andrus, c/o
Conrad R. Decker, with the stipulation that it has Beautification
Committee approval, and no further development of the property, including
the second building, without further Site Plan approval and that public
rest rooms be provided.
Seconded by Mrs. Levandowski.
Passed unan1ao.s1y.
NEW BUSIOSS
SITE PLAN NO. 1-88
John M. Hughes
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Mr. Roberts stated that this is for construction of a physical therapy
facility, west side of Bay Road, north of Walker Lane, UR-5. In one of
the lots, there is a formerly-approved subdivision.
Mr. John Hughes represented the project. Mr. Roberts pointed out this
goes back a while. The subdivision was initially approved and, at that
time, there was a great deal of discussion regarding the mixed use of resi-
dential homes and professional offices in the development. Mr. Hughes
said that this approval is for Lot 10, which is contiguous to some of the
other lots approved for that purpose.
Mrs. Levandowsi asked about the road off Bay Road. Conversation about
the land pursued at the Board's dais, especially regarding this road and
the approval of the subdivision. Mr. Prime pointed out that, according to
the note on the map, there was sketch plan approval for the 16 lot sub-
division, but it does not say Final Approval. Mr. DeSantis did not feel
that final approval had been given. It is necessary to have a subdivision
lot approved, before something can be constructed. Further, Mr. Macri
referred to the construction going on in Lot 2, and said that that build-
ing borders the street and is the only building that can go on that lot.
At this point, Lot 2 encompasses the whole property.
Mr. Roberts confirmed that this was not carried beyond sketch plan
approval, since the drawing is neither signed or stamped. The surveyor
has looked at it as recently as December 30, 1987. Mr. Prime said that is
the only revision, and that the original map is 1983. Mr. DeSantis felt
the application cannot be considered since there is no subdivision. There
was additional conversation about Mr. Hughes going for a variance for the
property and the intended uses.
The topic and whereabouts of the original sketch plan map (1983) was
brought up. If the map in 1983 and the 1988 map are different, a new
application has to be submitted, because of any changes that have taken
place. If the applicant can find a map that is stamped by a licensed land
surveyor, that is signed by the Chairman of the Planning Board at that
time, then there is a subdivision, if it was filed within 60 days of the
time that it was signed. Then the Chairman can consider resigning the map
for filing. Otherwise, there is no subdivision.
Mr. Prime suggested that Mr. Hughes talk to Tom McCormack, who knows
the regulations on subdivisions and site plans, and if there is any way
that it can be done under the present restraints, he would know. In
answer to Mr. Roberts about subdividing for commercial purposes, Mr. Prime
said that this property is not zoned commercial.
Mr. Macri moved that Site Plan No. 1-88, John M. Hughes, be TABLED
because the map has not satisfied the requirements for approval.
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Seconded by Mr. DeSantis.
Passed ....tmo.sly.
SITE PLAN IBVISIOBS
Reference was made to a letter from Frank DeSantis regarding revision
of Page 2 of the Site Plan Application for further consideration to the
Site Plan. The proposed revisions are as follows:
12. Current condition of Sewage Disposal System (Type, Capacity, Location)
Condition to be determined by inspection of system by appropriate
authorities.
13. Proposed Sewage Disposal System (Type, Capacity, Location)
Passed ..ani.eusly.
Chairman Roberts adjourned the meeting at 9:20 p.m.
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TO j e Roberts, Chairman
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. Minutes typed by Mary Jane F. Moeller, Stenographer.
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