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1993-03-25 ~ QUEENSBURY PLANNING DEPARTMENT ROUTE 149 TRAVEL CORRIDOR STUDY MARCH 25TH. 1993 INDEX Regarding further analysis of Route 149. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. "-- - QUEENSBURY PLANNING DEPARTMENT ROUTE 149 TRAVEL CORRIDOR STUDY MARCH 25TH. 1993 7:30 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT PLANNING BOARD ZONING BOARD TOWN BOARD TIMOTHY BREWER CORINNE TARANA THEODORE TURNER THOMAS PHILO MIKE BRANDT SUSAN GOETZ PLINEY TUCKER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN PLANNER-ARLYNE RUTHSCHILD PLANNER-SCOTT HARLICKER STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI MR. MARTIN-I'm glad to see we've got a lot of the returns from the last meeting. and for those who are here for the first time. my name is Jim Martin, and I'm the Director of Planning here in the Town, and to my left is Scott Harlicker. who is an Assistant Planner. and Arlyne Ruthschild. who is an Assistant Planner with the Town also. We're here now, as a second time through, to discuss the Planning Study for the Route 149 Corridor. Last time was sort of a dry session. We went through a lot of history on the road, and a lot of the physical characteristics associated with the road. Hopefully tonight will be a little bit more interesting. Now. we're going to hopefully respond back to you with some of the ideas we've come up with, and this is based. really, on what we saw from the mail-in survey, and our last meeting, and just our general impression as Planners. and what we thought might be appropriate to bring to this Corridor. I, personally, did not have much involvement in this. I just want to lay this right out. and for those of you who may not know, I live on Route 149, in a house that my wife and I own, and so I'm going to step, I've stepped back from developing any recommendations for this. I submitted this whole scenario to the Ethics Board, and they recommended it would be a good idea that I step back from any of the recommendations or formulation of the plan. So what you see tonight is Scott and Arlyne's doing. but I saw the list today, and it seems pretty reasonable to me, but these are all up for discussion tonight. Nothing is set in stone. These are proposed recommendations, and that's why we're here. to get your response to them, and to quite frankly just have an open discussion, much like we did the last time, but I think they've done some things, here, that reflect what the community wanted, in terms of the survey responses we saw back, the responses we got at the last meeting, and with that said, I'll sit down, and I'll let Arlyne lead us off here. and we'll see how this goes tonight. and I thank you all for coming and taking part in this process, and keeping interested in how the Town develops, especially in and around your home. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-I'm going to start with just a review of some of the physical constraints that are on the road. We went through this last time, but this is an overlay of three of the major physical constraints to development on the road. percolation. slope. and depth to seasonal highwater. Fast percolation rates are shown with this sort of wave line here. and fast percolation is considered six inches to twenty inches an hour, which really affects septic systems, also stormwater runoff. It's areas where you would probably need to have an alternative type of septic system. The sections that have the cross hatch shows steep slope, very steep slope. 15 to 25 percent slope or greater. Most of that area is in the western part of the land that's adjacent to Route 149, going towards Route 9, which I'm sure you're all familiar with, and a shallow depth to seasonal highwater is illustrated by - 1 - ~ --- the wavy lines. which would be here, which is also around the area of Glen Lake, and areas of wetlands. would be areas where there would be shallow depth to highwater. Here's an area which is probably a drainage area from the Dunham's wetlands. This area here has very shallow groundwater. which would be another constraint to development. Last meeting I was asked about the streams. I have to tell you. there are no names. I did want to give you an idea of where the streams that either transect the 149 Route or are' right in the area of the land. You can see here wetlands right above this area. This is Bay Road. This is a large wetland area, right above it. There are streams that are also coming, a lot of them come from the Dunham's Bay wetland area, and the designation of streams is. BT means that it's a swimming stream, also it's trout habited, and AA Stream is a stream that's considered to be drinkable water. Anything that has T is trout habited. So there are approximately six or seven streams along the Corridor. It depends on which map you look at, but definitely six. and there's this stream. everybody knows this pond. Almost on top of Route 9, there's a stream that comes off there, comes right down into here. There's a big wetlands area here that terminates down there. Most of the streams terminate in either floodplain areas, which this is here, or in some larger body of water, such as Lake Glen. It's important to consider why streams and other bodies of water should not be developed, or have development near them or on top of them. because they act as flood management. They absorb water, rain water, and they also lay down what's called alluvial soils. or soils that come with the movement of water. DICK KILMARTIN MR. KILMARTIN-I have a question. Where are you getting this information from, is what I'd like to know? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-From what's called a USGS Map. United States Geological Survey. MR. KILMARTIN-You better do your homework a little better than that, because those streams do not end where you said they end. There's a stream right straight through there that pours right into the Halfway Brook, where you're talking about wetlands. There's a stream that goes right down through. there and pours into the Halfway Brook, which the Halfway Brook is the one that comes out of Glen Lake, and dumps into Dream Lake. and from Dream Lake down, it comes down through and dumps into the Halfway Brook. There's defini tely streams there, but they do not end in what you're talking as wetlands. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Well, they probably terminate, see, I'm just showing you the streams that are crossing the Corridor. MR. KILMARTIN-They go right straight through. terminate. They don't MRS. RUTHSCHILD-That' s right, and then they come out. I'm just saying that they terminate at this point. There are other streams, certainly, that come out further south. MR. KILMARTIN-They do not terminate there. There's streams that go right straight through there. I happen to own some of that property there. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-I know. This is your area here. MR. KILMARTIN-I'm in there. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. MR. KILMARTIN-And those streams come right down, and they dump into the Halfway Brook. - 2 - - MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Any other questions? JAMES WELLER MR. WELLER-I've got a question. Who designated those streams trout streams? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-That's Conservation. the Department of Environmental MR. WELLER-Have they ever gone out there because some of those streams dry right up. those streams. in the summer time, There's no trout in MAN IN AUDIENCE-I've got one on my property, and I'll give you $50 for every trout that's in there. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-We' II have to get in touch with them. Well, we take the data from the maps. The maps are. no doubt, a number of years old, but the designation is that the trouts probably could be habi ted in that area, not necessarily that they exist at this moment. It's an area that could support trout. MR. KILMARTIN-They couldn't support a trout. because some of those streams dry right up. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Do all the streams flow south? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-That I couldn't tell you. The only ones that I know going south are where I've seen them, that they come from the higher altitudes in the Adirondacks, and I mean, when I show you this here, actually, it's coming from a much higher area. I'm showing you the ones that come across 149, and that's what's important. MAN IN AUDIENCE-How about the big beaver dam, does that flow south or north? MR. MARTIN-I'm not exactly sure, where is that? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Stranahan's where Barber has a house, it's the main valley that runs, between Bay and Ridge. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Well, it's probably further north than what this study area shows here. MR. MARTIN-I know what he's talking about. It would be right next to Mr. Kilmartin's property. I believe. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Well. this is Mr. Kilmartin's property, here. MAN IN AUDIENCE-We're talking on the northern side of the road. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Okay. The ones that identified, that were on the map. the main ones. MAN IN AUDIENCE-It's not on the screen. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-It's not on the screen. It's further this way? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. MR. MARTIN-It has to be right in here, right? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. MR. MARTIN-It may be advisable to try and get DEC up here this summer, and up date the information, because this is quite old, and - 3 - - it may be advisable to get them up here. and maybe we could have some of these reclassified, or declassified. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. These were the ones that were most evident on the USGS Maps. and the ones that I just designated were the ones that were close to the road. you know. because that's what we're discussing. The next transparency shows the current land uses, which is the similar map that you have in your packet. As you can see on the map. the residential is designated by this random dot area. and commercial by the wavy line, and the dense cross hatch is the vacant land. Of course this is Washington County, Ridge and Bay Road, and at this time. there are approximately 59 residential parcels, and 40 vacant, which include residential and commercial parcels, and 22 commercial parcels. Somebody must have a question. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Could you show me where the bike path is on there, the bike path that starts down there on 149 in the corner? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-It's Highway Commercial on the north side. MAN IN AUDIENCE-But the proposal is to maintain Highway Commercial, on what would be the west side of the bike path? The bike path runs north to south, okay. so it's got to be the west side or the east side. So on the west side of the bike path, the east side would be towards Vermont. The west side would be back towards the developments, as it is now. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Okay. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Are there proposed changes in that section there? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-No. That's going to be still the commercial. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Still proposed to be Highway Commercial? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Not Highway Commercial. MAN IN AUDIENCE-It's currently Highway Commercial. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Right. We're proposing a new zone, which is Rural Commercial, but it wouldn't change. It would incorporate the same uses. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Why would you make a change there? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Well, we'll discuss that a little later in the program. It's to incorporate more appropriate types of commercial activity to maintain a rural look to the Corridor, which seems to be, from the survey and from comments and our observations, what most of the people want for the Corridor. SUSAN GOETZ MRS. GOETZ-Arlyne, on your proposed recommendations. the first one, the zone change, it says Rural Commercial. Are you creating a new zone? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. That's what I mentioned to this gentleman. MAN IN AUDIENCE-But now, what you're saying to me is Commercial means Highway Commercial with architectural basically. by. Rural review, MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Well, not architectural review. We don't have an architectural review criteria. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I know you don't, but I'm saying, now what is the basis of a Highway Commercial to Rural Commercial, if you're trying to say to me, this should be in a likeness of the Adirondacks. or in a likeness of a rural. what's a rural look? It has to be - 4 - '" -. defined. MR. MARTIN-Based on what I saw of the proposed use table, it's definitely a reduction in the number of uses, or the types of uses that would be allowed. What is currently Highway Commercial, as opposed to the proposed zone of Rural Commercial. In other words, you're not seeing things like used car lots and car washes. and outdoor movie theaters and that type of thing, that's currently in the Highway Commercial zone. You know, those are, it's just not a perception of a rural use, a Rural Commercial. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Okay. Is there a list of those? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. MR. MARTIN-Yes. Scott was going to go through those tonight. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Okay. MR. KILMARTIN-This map that you've got on the screen there, is this the proposed? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-No, this is existing right now. MR. KILMARTIN-What it is right now. Okay. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-I just wanted to go through that with you, so you can see some of the differences. MR. WELLER-Why didn't we get, with our handout, this list of what Rural Commercial is? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Mostly because it's proposed, for one thing. MAN IN AUDIENCE-It would put a lot of people at ease, if they knew what. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. We're going to. MR. MARTIN-We'll go through it very slowly, and you can take down the uses. We just tried to give you the highlights. MR. BRANDT-I think it ought to be very clear that you're not proposing, you're making suggestions. MR. MARTIN-Right. Exactly. These are just suggestions. MR. BRANDT-You're not saying, this is what we're going to cram to you. folks. Give us your input. and together we're going to come up with a plan. That ought to be made very clear. MR. MARTIN-Exactly. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Well, this recommendation appears to me to be an architectural review, okay. I don't know how you could say, I hope they would make. you know, they would design in a rustic setting, or whatever you're trying to state here. MR. MARTIN-No. There's no. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Okay. MAN IN AUDIENCE-It appears that that is some type of architectural review. MR. MARTIN-It's not an architectural review, per se. It would be in a statement of purpose for the zone. and it would be reflected in the uses allowed, because there would be no architectural review where a Planning Board or somebody could say, well, we don't like blue. We want brown on the side of that wall, or we don't want - 5 - ~ '-- -'.~ that shape of roof line. We want a different shape of roof line. That's not going to occur. That's not proposed. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Well, architectural appropriateness. what does that mean? That's my question. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-We will be discussing it, definitely, as we will be discussing all the different proposed recommendations, and getting your input. We sent out 115 surveys, and we received 49 of them back, and I've done a short summary of the answers. I've listed the question. I hope everybody got one of the surveys. No? And you're a resident of 149? RICHARD HUGHES MR. HUGHES-Ledgeview Village and RV Park. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. You should have gotten it. Okay. We'll definitely have to find out your name and address, and see where we missed. MR. MARTIN-That's the RV Park at the. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. I know where it is, but I can't imagine how we could have missed something that big. There were eight questions, you can see. The first one, what is the current use of your property. and this was the respondent reply. So you can see, of the respondents that replied. 22 were residential, commercial 9, residential commercial 5, agricultural 4, and so on. Projected or planned future use of your property. as you can see, there seems to be a difference between the ones that already are residential, and what they're going to keep. A number of people are interested, from the survey and from the comments that people made last time. to have some kind of commercial use of their property, some type of, perhaps, vegetable stand in the summer time. A number of people responded that they were going to be retiring to this property, and they wanted to have some kind of second income after their retirement, wanted to have some type of crafts at their property. So these are the people who responded that way. What are the unique or man made features of your property. We tried to get people to. or elicit comments, as to how people felt about the property. and also the Corridor. which is what a number of our recommendations our based on. When I looked through most of the answers, one of the things, or overriding thing that I saw come up in the answers is that most people are interested in keeping the rural residential look of the Corridor, but they were also interested, a number of them were also interested in having some kind of commercial use of their property, and also there was definite leaning towards keeping the intense commercial use at the crossroads, where it is at this point. and perhaps expanding it. so when we discuss this new zoning, as we will, it will take that consideration into view. What do you feel are the important planning and land use issues in your area? Traffic was another question that came up most of the time. People talked about the road and the difficulty of the road, the amount of traffic, some of the hazards. and basically the configuration of the road. the windiness of it, the lack of ability, Scott and I went out for a number of drives on the road just to see how difficult it was to make left and right turns, and where there were blind spots, and there are a number of very difficult areas on the road for traffic. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Did you go on a Friday night, or a Sunday night? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-No. It was during the day. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Try Memorial Day weekend. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. Right. I'm sure. I'm loyal to my job, but I don't feel I should take my life in my hands. - 6 - ',- MR. MARTIN-Yes. As a resident of road. I made them well aware of the Friday night and Sunday night traffic in the summer time. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-I've already personally got stuck I don't know how far back on the road, trying to make a right turn on 149 and Route 9, and I was positive there was an accident. I said, something happened up there, there's a fire or an accident. Nothing happened. It was just traffic. and there wasn't anything particularly going on in French Commons. Nothing, and it was winter. So, it's going to be quite a problem. I'm sure you realize. MAN IN AUDIENCE-You're going to have to entice the State to do something about that. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes. The State is proposing to do something about it, of course, that means State time. Do you know what I mean? MR. WELLER-I've got a question, Number Five, you've got responses there. Are they responding appropriate or inappropriate? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Okay. appropriate. Well, you can see here. This would be MR. WELLER-How do you know that? Read the question. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-What land uses do you believe are appropriate and inappropriate for your area. MR. WELLER-So. are the responses appropriate or inappropriate? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Residential and the commercial, as I remember. were appropriate. The ones that I put down here, no restrictions, or keep as is, residential not appropriate was only one person. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-This should be two lists. There should be one list for what's appropriate and one list that's inappropriate, not just one combined. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Right. Well, this is a somewhat broad data analysis. I just took it straight off. This is going to be expanded. We will be having a regular enlarged report, which will analyze it. MR. WELLER-I would think you should rewrite that question, because that question is loaded. \ MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Loaded? MR. WELLER-Absolutely. You can't take the responses from a question like that and understand what the person meant. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-We ll, as the lady here said, I could make two columns, and take off the responses, because the written response is directed, their written response to that. In other words. they said. this is inappropriate for residential, or I'm a residence, and it would be inappropriate for commercial. MAC COFFIN MR. COFFIN-So, we're to assume these are appropriate? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Except the ones that said not appropriate. MR. COFFIN-Except for the one? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Right, or keep it as is. New road would mean that they felt that the current road needed changing. MR. WELLER-You didn't get any responses that said it's - 7 - """'. "--- inappropriate for commercial use? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Not on their. for the area, meaning their own area. MR. WELLER-I totally disagree with that. I own five pieces of property on Route 149, and I filled out all five of them that way. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Okay, and you filled it out how? MR. WELLER-You're response you've got there is wrong, absolutely. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-And this is also an important question to see how people answered. This somewhat summarizes mos~ of what I saw on the responses. People interested in keeping it rural residential. but having a commercial area, and the commerce at the crossroads. I saw a lot of adjectives that describe the natural area, beautiful brooks, streams, the vista, the view, the mountains, wooded area. I also saw a lot of traffic problems, you know, people mix their answers, because they've got a mixed, conflicting situation on the road. Any que stions about that? Okay. I'll turn it over to Scott. Thank you for listening to me. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. Lets go to the, I guess we can cover this on the proposed recommendations. We can go through this page here, since everything's covered on this. As Arlyne mentioned, in response to the surveys and the last meeting that we had, there seemed to be a consensus that there was a need for some commercial development along the highway. We decided, or didn't decide, but we carne to the conclusion that. MR. WELLER-Are you talking about the same meeting that we went to, two weeks ago? MR. HARLICKER-Yes, and whatever commercial development along the highway, there should be concentrated at the crossroads, with the main intersections, Bay, Ridge, and Route 9. What we've come up with is, for lack of a better term, a rural commercial zone. where one principal building of up to 3,000 square feet of gross floor area will be allowed for everyone acre. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Three thousand. or thirty thousand? MR. HARLICKER-Three thousand. MAN IN AUDIENCE-For a commercial building? commercial building? Is that for a MR. HARLICKER-Correct. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Where is this rural commercial zone? MR. HARLICKER-It's concentrated here at the Bay Road intersection. and over here on Ridge, and then the existing Route 9. MR. WELLER-So it's an existing Highway Commercial zone. MR. HARLICKER-Right. MR. WELLER-You propose to change it to Rural Commerc~al? MR. HARLICKER-Rural Commercial. Right. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Is it expanding of Bay? MR. HARLICKER-Correct. We're expanding it to include. it's easier to show on this map over here, a small section, I'm not sure who's part of this. it's lot 42, the property next to the existing restaurant, and a small stretch that extends down to the property there. then across the street to include the property, I guess it's lot 38-1. I think is the name of it. So, it's this area right in - 8 - ... - ,,--,,~ there that it will be expanded to. BOB MARTINDALE MR. MARTINDALE-Why just that area? MR. HARLICKER-That seemed to be the appropriate way to go. MR. MARTINDALE-Who owns the property? MR. HARLICKER-I don't know who owns these properties. I don't know if that's relevant to which way the property should be re-zoned. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Well. why did you decide to do those properties only? Why did you go that way? MR. HARLICKER-Instead of going this way? WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-We could. then go down to include down that way also. suggestions. None of responses for this. It was considered to go the greenhouse over here, Please bear in mind, this is written in stone. out this way and too, expand unit these are just We're here to get MAN IN AUDIENCE-Would you explain the difference between Highway Commercial and Rural Commercial? MR. HARLICKER-Okay. I'll put the list of uses allowed. MR. MARTINDALE-The one question I had, too, if there's already existing commercial buildings there, are you going to make them change? MR. HARLICKER-No. MR. MARTINDALE-Then what's the sense of even changing it, if you're only going to put on two extra lots? WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-There must be a reason for changing. MR. HARLICKER-We felt there will be a need to have some sort of an enlarged commercial area at the intersections. at the two main intersections, and a~ a compromise between what people want, you know, there was some responses from the survey saying they wanted to maintain the Highway Commercial zone. MR. MARTINDALE-Yes, but that doesn't help anybody who doesn't own land right on those corners, if they want something commercial. How does that help them? MR. HARLICKER-It doesn't. MR. MARTINDALE-Well, if you had 17, 18 people out there on your survey that said that they wanted something commercial, then it doesn't help them a bit. MR. HARLICKER-It was our belief that the commercial zones should be concentrated at the three main intersections. MR. MARTINDALE-So, if anybody wants to have a commercial enterprise, they've all got to chip in and buy that piece of property and have our business there? How is that going to help me, if I can't buy that piece of property. if I want to have a business there, on 149? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Home occupation is a possibility. also. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. - 9 - " .~ -- '"'--""-'-' MR. COFFIN-Why couldn't they just take, like. 500 feet from each side of the intersection and say, that's what it is? MR. HARLICKER-We could do that. That's a possibility. MR. COFFIN-You've got it allover the place, like if you decided you didn't want to clean up Fred Stranahan's, so you decided you'd make him Highway Commercial. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. I don't know who the gentleman is. MR. WELLER-Well, you ought to. You ought to be familiar with the properties that you're including. MR. HARLICKER-I'm familiar with what's Qn the properties. I'm not familiar with who owns them. MR. WELLER-What is on the property? MR. HARLICKER-Which one? That's commercial. Those are the offices. That's the antique store. That's vacant. That's vacant. That's vacant. That's vacant. That's already zoned Highway Commercial. So is that, and I believe that there is vacant also. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Why not make the whole area Rural Commercial, right from Ridge Road to Route 9, make it all Rural Commercial. MR. MARTINDALE-Then if somebody wants something. they can have it. If they don't want it. then they don't have to. MAN IN AUDIENCE-That's it. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. What will happen then, the consensus was, from the last meeting, and also the surveys that we got. were that most of the residents wanted to maintain the Rural Residential character of the corridor, and if you start allowing businesses all the way from Bay Road down to Ridge Road, you won't have that character. MR. MARTINDALE-Well, let the people decide what they want to do with their property, whoever owns it. They just reassessed it to make our taxes higher, and yet we can't do anything with our land. Why don't you let whoever owns their property, they can do whatever they want with it. You could still put restrictions on your Residential Commercial zone. that you've got to keep it in a residential character. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-How can you have it in a residential character. and have a restaurant on the road? TIMOTHY BREWER MR. BREWER-I have a question, here. I understand what you're saying. but, can you give me the definition of residential. then give me the definition of commercial? How can you have your cake and eat it too? You can't have two zones with different uses and call them the same zone. I mean, you could have a Rural Commercial zone. but you can't have a Residential restriction and then have a Commercial restriction. MR. MARTINDALE-No. If you have a piece of property, and you want to have a house on it, fine, you can have a house on it. If you want to have a house and a business on it, you can have either. Let the property owner decide what he wants to do. MR. HARLICKER-What about the person living next to you, who doesn't want, bought the piece of residential property. MR. MARTINDALE-I don't care what the person next to me wants. as long as it's nice. He doesn't pay my taxes. What about the people across the street, have their business, and you've got to live on - 10 - ~,' '--- ~--;;.< this side? What's the difference? MR. HARLICKER-There isn't. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Like a big trailer on one side of the road, and you live on the other side, what's the difference, that you can't make yours commercial, but you're going to let them. MR. HARLICKER-So you want to expand, I don't want to say suitable, but a bad situation. MAN IN AUDIENCE-No. I know. That's what I mean. MR. HARLICKER-You want to maintain a rural corridor, part of that is going to have to commercial development to certain areas. character on be containing the the MAN IN AUDIENCE-Okay. You're going to put all these businesses in. What are you going to do with the traffic? It can't handle it now. MR. HARLICKER-You want larger commercial zones. traffic. You brought up MR. MARTINDALE-The traffic is going to be there no matter what. The people that are going skiing are going to go to Vermont. They're going to still go through there whether there's a business there or not. MR. HARLICKER-Right. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I'm totally confused. First of all, I wasn't here at the last meeting. but I'm just wondering, now, did somebody ask for what you're trying to accomplish here? Did somebody come to this Department and ask for this? Did somebody along 149 come in here and ask for changes? CAROLYN MARTINDALE MRS. MARTINDALE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-There's been a number of requests for zone changes, and comments from citizens all around the corridor, and this is our response to requests from people who live on the corridor. MAN IN AUDIENCE-To satisfy a few, then, you're going to go the whole length of 149? MR. WELLER-This whole process is the result of Fran Martindale wanting to change that old Martindale barn into a pancake house, and he got enough interest, spoke loud enough, he got the Town excited, and they're trying to get everyone along the road excited. They should have denied it, it was in a residential zone, and left the zoning the way it is. There's nothing the matter with it the way it is. Franny Martindale wanted to open a pancake house in the middle of a bunch of residential buildings. MR. MARTINDALE-What's the harm? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Another question is, if you change any piece of property, whether it's mine or anybody else's, to commercial. is that going to raise the assessment? MR. MARTIN-No. My understanding is. the assessment is based on the use. MR. MARTINDALE-If you have a house on there, it won't go up because it's commercial, if it's commercially zoned. as long as you've got a house on there? MR. MARTIN-It's supposed to be the market value of the property, - 11 - " ... ~ ~'-----' and if it's used as residential, then that has a certain value. That's my understanding. MAN IN AUDIENCE-No. I have to disagree with that. The day it changes to commercial, that property is definitely more valuable. MR. MARTIN-Well, from what I see here, and I've only seen this today. there is very little commercial expansion. It is very limited. It's limited to the main intersections of the corridor, which was a bulk of the responses that were given. It's expanded very lightly, and when individual property owners made that request, when it was shown on a survey. and if that individual property was around the hubs of the corridor, as it appears to me, they made the effort to accommodate that. at the hubs of the intersections. MAN IN AUDIENCE-To answer that gentleman's question, the property value is definitely going to increase. There's no way around it. If you're limited, as the only property that I have that I can build on is around Bay Road. okay. my value is going up because I have something that nobody else can have. It's just limited. It's the same thing that the people that own the properties now. that have commercial property there, the guy next door to him, his property is not as valuable as the guy that's in a commercial zone right now, okay. You can see that from your Assessment Rolls right now. The use of the property, the current use of the property. has nothing to do with it. It's the best use of the property that it has to be based on. MR. MARTIN-The market value. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Right. MR. MARTIN-And you're right, that would be effected by a commercial zoning. MR. MARTINDALE-The other thing is, if somebody has a commercial piece of property on 149, they're not going to want to see the rest of 149 become commercial, because then if he wants to sell his piece of property to somebody who wants to do something commercial. they can't pick and choose up and down the road, then his property is going to be worth more. So, he wouldn't want the guy down the road to have a commercial piece of property, because then he'd have less chance of selling his. MR. WELLER-I don't believe that. MR. MARTINDALE-Right. If there's free enterprise, then everyone should have a chance to put something commercial on their property if they want to. MR. HARLICKER-On the whole length of the corridor? MR. MARTINDALE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Then you'd get Route 9. MR. MARTINDALE-No. You'd have restrictions. MAN IN AUDIENCE-You say you want your freedom on one side, but then you want restrictions on the other side. MR. MARTINDALE-No. There could be restrictions on what you could put there. I mean, you wouldn't want a car dealership there. of course, but I don't see where a restaurant is going to look un- rural. FRANCIS MARTINDALE MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-Excuse me. You and Arlyne made a statement - 12 - , / ''-'" that you drove 149. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Several times. MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-How, could you possibly drive down 149, from Route 9 to Ridge Road, and not see some form of commercial enterprise. the maximum would be 4,000 feet. I can start at Route 9, you can start right at Kings, got a beautiful trailer park. Less than 1,000 feet from his property line, which you don't even know is there, is a man dOing fabrication. That's a commercial enterprise. Less than 1,000 feet is another RV trailer park. That's commercial enterprise. Less than 1.000 feet from that RV trailer park to my land, which I want commercial. Yes, sir, Jim Weller, and if you'd come to the meetings and saw the plans, you wouldn't put me down like you do, I want a commercial enterprise. Right across the road, 50 feet across the road, there's a commercial enterprise. He's storing motor homes. He's got a craft shop, and he's got more than three apartments. That's a commercial enterprise, people. Four thousand feet down the road is Jimmy Weller, who's a commercial enterprise. My God, what do you people have to have shown to you to see. this is a commercial road. It has not necessarily got to be restricted to residential. You've got commercialism the whole length of that road, and if you think that by putting at four corners is going to control traffic, you're wrong. It's going to increase traffic. that's still going to go by my place. It's just as much of a hazard to me. Look at the road. It doesn't take college people. It doesn't take people with high salaries to realize a State road. a two lane road, 13 percent of that traffic is commercial traffic. That is a commercial road. Why are you giving us all a hard time? Why can't you understand? Yes, there's people that want to have residential use there, but there's people that's paying a lot of taxes. and if you think $4200 for vacant land is cheap taxes, you're crazy. That's what my land is assessed at, and if I can't have use of it, this Town is going to have to answer to some strong reasons why. Now, lets get down to what the people want. Never mind all these fancy figures. The people that came here want some answers why. You beat around the bush. Why is it just at the four corners? Because you do think it's that way? Look at it. You're telling me I can't have a commercial situation on my side of the road, but on the other side of the road, it's okay. You're not being. MR. HARLICKER-I didn't say that. That's existing there. MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-No. it's not. It just started this year, and the Town won't stop it. I'm talking about a whole bunch of them. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I have a question. How come we're going to do away with Highway Commercial and make it Rural Commercial? What are we going to do, choke everything down now? MR. HARLICKER-No. MAN IN AUDIENCE-You've got Highway Commercial at the four corners. MR. HARLICKER-Right. MAN IN AUDIENCE-If you want, why don't you leave your Highway Commercial there, and then form your Rural Commercial, and maybe feed that out into some of the other areas of the highway. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Mr. Martindale wants to do, because in 1985, I got hammered by this Town's Zoning Board. and swept underneath the carpet because I wanted to put a business right there, right next door to him, and I had not one. absolutely not one neighbor wi thin a mile, either direction, that had any objections to it, but the Town Planning Board and the Town Zoning Board swept me under the carpet. Now. I see absolutely nothing wrong, if we have a Rural Commercial, and we can limit Rural Commercial, keep your heavier commercial at your four corners, but - 13 - .r '- leave your Highway Commercial salone. I mean, we've got people that have purchased Highway Commercials because they couldn't get in anywhere else. That's the way I wound up with it, and I think it's time we left those alone, and if we want Rural Commercial, lets choke it down a littl~ bit if you want, but lets have some Rural Commercial. MR. COFFIN-Didn't you say that most people wanted residential? MR. BOB MARTINDALE-He said both. MR. COFFIN-Well, wait a minute. Isn't that what you said? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Rural Residential. That's what you saw on the 49 out of 115. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Could you give us some handouts as to the difference between Highway Commercial and Rural Commercial? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes, I can read what the Highway. MR. HARLICKER-Here's what we're proposing for uses in the Rural Commercial zone, gas station, convenient stores. restaurants, retail, veterinary clinics, banking facilities. day care, drug store, pharmacies, grocery stores, commercial greenhouse, nurseries, professional office, laundry mat, boat storage repair and sales, farm and logging equipment sales and service. This is the proposed Rural Commercial zones. MAN IN AUDIENCE-You'd put a gas station in Rural Commercial? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-A gas station exists there already, several. MR. MARTINDALE-Yes. in the zone that you want to put it in, but that doesn't help somebody that's outside that zone. MR. BREWER-But what you're saying is, you don't want gas station in Rural Commercial, but it's allowed in Highway Commercial. So, what do you want? MR. BOB MARTINDALE-I want two zones, Rural Commercial and Highway Commercial. Like he said, if you want to have a Highway Commercial zone, they can do whatever Highway Commercial is, and if somebody wants a Rural Commercial zone, choke it down a little bit. restrict a little bit. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. The problem with the Highway Commercial zones, you can put parking garages out there, drive-in theaters. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Most of the Highway Commercial is built out, okay, and also you have to use a little bit of thought on this. okay. Who's going to put a parking garage up on Bay Road and 149, okay? So. I understand your rules are in there, but you still have to use some common sense for that. You need an apartment complex to put a parking garage in, or a shopping mall to put a parking garage in. MR. HARLICKER-Yes, but it also reflects, too, the different sized buildings. The Highway Commercial allows for a much more intense use of the property, than what we got the feeling that the people. MAN IN AUDIENCE-The properties that are left in the Highway Commercial zone are very limited as they are now. There's maybe two or three in that one. and two or three in that one. two or three in that one. That's it. There's not that much there. I think what you're trying to do is preserve the nature, and I think this gentleman # s right. If you want something that's in Rural Commercial. make so many. - 14 - f '" --- MR. HARLICKER-So what you're suggesting is. keep the Highway Commercial the as is, and any expansion around it should be a Rural Commercial nature? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Right. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-She said, earlier, that 17 people out of the 49 wanted some commerce on this road. correct? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Commercial, yes, but they didn't specifically. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-Commercial, okay, 17 out of 49. Now. how many Highway Commercial zones do you have there? Do you have 17 people owning a Highway Commercial zone? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-No, you have three. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-That means that somebody else on 149 wants commercial use of their property that does not have it already. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Yes, but at the same time, they also want to keep the corridor Rural Residential, or a rural look to it. There's a conflict. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-Yes, Rural Commercial. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-Rural Commercial is not the same thing as a Rural Residential. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-Or Residential Commercial. If somebody owns a residence, he can have a commercial piece on there. or he can have a residence on there, whatever you want to do with your property. MR. COFFIN-Just as a suggestion, here. If you've got a Highway Commercial on a, I don't like this spot zoning that I've been, Queensbury has hit me with it. in my instance, and now it's in my sister's instance. I think what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to make this thing a set number of feet. Then you're going to have to decide whether you're going to spot zone or whether you're going to zone a Rural Commercial area with a much restricted use, for the road. You can't just spot zone for people, because that's picking on, Franny Martindale for instance. if that's who they, you can't do this. You have to keep this thing set, 500 feet is Highway Commercial, expand the Rural Commercial, and cut it way back, not to what you're showing here, with gas stations and stuff. You've got to really choke it down. if that's what you're going to do, but just leave the one set footage for Highway Commercial. Forget this spot zoning of different parcels. That's what it looks like, what you've got there. MR. HARLICKER-Well, I don't know. I wouldn't say that. MR. COFFIN-It is. It's not a set footage. Now. Dick Kilmartin would be split, by the looks of it, to me, and that's the way it should have been. If you went 500 foot or whatever, and Dick's was split. well. that's okay. Now. Dick can benefit from half of it. That's better than he was before. MR. HARLICKER-Well. that's what we were trying do here. MR. COFFIN-Now, the rest of it could be a Rural Commercial, which would be choked down, and not having grocery stores and all this in this area. You could keep it a rural area. MR. HARLICKER-So you're saying have a much more limited Rural Commercial zone surrounding the Highway Commercial zone? MRS. MARTINDALE-No. the whole highway's that. - 15 - '-- ,í MR. COFFIN-No. I said the major intersections. go back so many feet. I just used 500 as a figure, go back so many feet from the major intersection. that's Highway Commercial. To really choke down. they're going to create a new zone. called Rural Commercial. really choke down what can be done in Rural Commercial. and let the road go that way. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-That would be fine. but those roads are so close together. Ridge and Bay are not that far apart. So. you're just going to have a little area in between that's going to be just strictly housing? MR. COFFIN-Well, what do you want to do? Do you want to make the whole thing like the Million Dollar Half Mile? MR. BOB MARTINDALE-It's not going to be. That's why you're putting these restrictions on why you wouldn't have a big shopping mall in there. MR. COFFIN-I see gas stations, convenient stores, restaurants, banking facilities. This isn't what you guys are talking about? MRS. MARTINDALE-No. It's not. Ours is Rural Commercial, what we want. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. I think one of the problems in the Rural Commercial is nobody's had any input as to what can go in the Rural Commercial, okay. and that's what you need to do, because, I mean, everybody's picked on gasoline, I don't think anybody here. I don't know where that list of Rural Commercial. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. What it was, it was a combination of things from the Neighborhood Commercial, Commercial Residential, and Highway Commercial. What we wanted to do is we didn't want to make the stuff that was there nonconforming, but we wanted to limit new. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Right, but you if leave Highway Commercial the way it is. you don't have to have a gas station in Rural Commercial. It's already in Highway Commercial. MR. HARLICKER-Right. You can still stay in the Highway Commercial. Okay. What sort of uses. try to get some sort of idea here as to what sort of uses you'd like in a Rural Commercial zone. Gas stations? AUDIENCE-No. MR. HARLICKER-Convenient stores? AUDIENCE-No. MR. HARLICKER-Restaurants? I hear mixed feelings on this. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Well, it depends on what the restaurant looks like, and that's when you get back to architectural review. MR. HARLICKER-If we put some sort of limitation on size. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I don't think size has anything to do with it. Size is a very. MR. MARTIN-Well, the way it was explained to me, the reason why they limited the size, they explained it to me. was they didn't want strip malls there, or something of that nature, where you have, like, a Quaker Plaza, at 60.000 square feet, built along this road. That didn't seem to be in keeping with what they were seeing in the surveys. That was the reason for the building size issue. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Well. if you go to, like, Manchester, or some of those places, there are some larger malls that are done in very, in - 16 - -.;' the style, they look like individual shops, and things like that. In my opinion, they're very attractive, okay. Behind the scenes, they're a larger mall, and I'm not saying to put a 60,000 square foot mall in Rural Commercial, but you can still, you can build a nice building that's large. or an ugly building that's small, and that's what the problem is. as far as that goes. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-It seems like everybody seems to agree on the fact that the traffic on 149 is pretty bad, and maybe that ought to be taken into consideration when you reduce, and how much entrance and access traffic are you going to have. How many people are going to be making left hand turns into whatever this is? MR. HARLICKER-That was one of the reasons why we were trying to concentrate the commercial around the intersections. If you get people up and down this highway making left hand turns. and trying to pullout here after all these different parcels of property, when they all want commercial, there's going to be a lot of trouble, a lot of accidents. and the road is going to be even more unsafe than what it is now. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Provided that there's no setbacks on the bUildings that provide for turn lanes for these people to pull off, if you have a larger piece of property in there, okay, and you want to put a restaurant in, you could set your restaurant back far enough to provide a turn lane off of 149, where the traffic continues to flow, and they have a chance to pull in, and then they pull into your parking lot. MR. HARLICKER-See, that gets into trouble there. because you're talking Department of Transportation approval. MAN IN AUDIENCE-There's no doubt about it, but those are the types of things. in order to. without winding the road, there's no other way to do it. You have to be able to slow down to get off the road. if you're going to try to maintain. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-You could leave that up to the Planning Department. when somebody wants to come in and wants to put something in. If they don't have enough space for people to get off without causing an accident, they can't have it there. Leave that to the Planning Department. MR. HARLICKER-That's still not going to help the people making left turns across traffic. We'll get back to traffic in a moment, please. Restaurants were okay. Retail businesses? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Retail could go either way. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. Veterinary Clinics? WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. Banking? AUDIENCE-No. MR. HARLICKER-Day Care? WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Drug stores. pharmacies? AUDIENCE-No. MR. HARLICKER-Grocery stores? - 17 - "- '-- MAN IN AUDIENCE-No. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Not a consensus there. either. MR. COFFIN-This is for the Rural Commercial, right? MR. HARLICKER-Right. MR. COFFIN-Okay. Now, that's one thing that you want to get clear, is what's going to be what. You're saying no, but I don't want Shop N' Save up there. MR. HARLICKER-Right, but the problem with that is we'd still have some sort of square footage limitation on it. in the Rural Commercial. See, we wouldn't allow something like that. Lets stick to the list, please. Commercial greenhouse and nurseries? AUDIENCE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Professional offices? Another who knows. Boat storage repair? I'm hearing mixed voices on this one. also. Laundromats. Does anyone have a problem with laundromats? Okay. Another one. Back to the boat storage. well, I guess that would go hand in hand with the farm and logging equipment storage and sales? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Those should be in Highway Commercial. MR. HARLICKER-In the Highway Commercial? MR. MARTIN-I just want to clarify, what about agricultural uses? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. MRS. MARTINDALE-Yes. MR. WELLER-Your hand out talks about two zone s. Are we talking, now. about possibly creating a Highway Commercial. a Residential Commercial, and Residential? Are we talking about three zones now? MR\ HARLICKER-No. It appears to me what we're trying to get at, here, is keep the existing Highway Commercial as is, and any expansion of the commercial along the corridor would be under this Rural Commercial category that we're going over now. two commercial zones. Any uses on here that we haven't gone over yet that people would like to see on there? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Are you going to leave your Recreation Commercial as is? MR. HARLICKER-As is. Yes. MR. BREWER-Is this new zone you're creating going to be specifically for 149? MR. HARLICKER-No. MR. BREWER-You're going to go through the master plan and determine what areas should? MR. MARTIN-Exactly. As a matter of fact, I asked them today, did they feel completely comfortable with the name, Rural Commercial. or would it be more appropriate, in that we may want to apply this in other places in the Town, to maybe call it limited commercial. or something more generic like that, but it was decided to leave it as is. until we got here tonight. and see what the people thought. MR. BREWER-And that would be Rural Commercial One Acre? - 18 - -- '- MR. HARLICKER-Right. MR. WELLER-Don't we have a neighborhood commercial now? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. we do. MR. WELLER-Isn't that similar to what we're talking about with this Rural Residential? We've got so damn many zones in this Town. MR. MARTIN-I think Neighborhood Commercial, Jim, has gas stations and convenient stores in it. That's where this list got that from. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I don't see anything of a resort line, or amusement line. or anything like that. MR. MARTIN-Well, that's an item for discussion. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Well, I'm just saying as a rural use. MR. HARLICKER-You're talking about a motel or a hotel. not a hotel, but a motel? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. Breakfast. I don't want to limit it to a Bed & MR. MARTIN-What about, along those lines, like a riding stables or? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Again, that's what I'm saying, resort, and that's kind of in the resort or amusement type of mode, or a recreation mode. I don't know how you want to define it. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. Are those allowed in the Rural Residential zones. that are out there, riding stables and stuff like that? I think they are. Those kind of uses that you described, some of the amusements, like riding stables. Bed & Breakfasts. animal husbandry, agriculture, those types of uses are already allowed in the Rural Residential zones, along pretty much the whole stretch of the road. Anybody have any other comments on the list of uses here? MR. BRANDT-On your Recreation Commercial zone, I studied it because my land is in it, at West Mountain, and it's not. It's supposed to be a, because you restrict Recreation Commercial to no retail. You can't run a golf course. or any of those other things, without retail sales, and I think that you have to expand that zone for a certain amount of retail. MR. HARLICKER-Associated retail with a. yes. You're talking about making changes to the eXisting recreational commercial uses that are allowed in there. The Recreational Commercial on Route 149 is right in here. the RV Park there. The golf course is Rural Residential Five Acre. I think golf courses are allowed in Rural Residential. Yes. MAN IN AUDIENCE-How about motels? MR. HARLICKER-Well, motels are allowed in the Highway Commercial I believe, aren't they? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. So they are allowed along the Highway already. I don't know about expanding it out to include it in the. the Rural Commercial zones. I think, from the fee ling I get, is you want commercial use, but you don't want it at the intensity that's allowed at a Highway Commercial use. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-Well, Bed & Breakfast is kind of like a motel, - 19 - - '-- but it's still more rural. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-Is there any other suggestions at all, in terms of the allowed, or not allowed uses? Okay. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Now. this is also going to incorporate the uses that are in the Residential now, like you said like the resort uses and things like that in the Residential now, those are also going to be incorporated when this overlay, basically, this zone. or is it going to diminish the uses that are currently in the Residential zone? MR. HARLICKER-I guess it would depend on where the commercial zone is expanded to. and what's included in it. Off the top of my head, I can't really say. It all depends on what direction the Rural Commercial zone's expanded to. MR. MARTIN-Is there any other comment at all, then, on this new Rural Residential zone? MR. HARLICKER-Or Commercial. MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-In your Planning Board discussions, are you looking at revenue that could be raised through commercialism on that road for the Town, and I bring this out to you, you know you're not too far from Washington County, and there's quite a lot of vacant land right along. just after you go by the Town line. Believe me, if you make it too difficult, you're going to take a lot of business out of the Town of Queensbury, and if you do your sales tax, you know that there's a special little box that we actually give sales tax dollars to the Town of Queensbury. It's going to go. You've got Hill Billy Fun that wanted to put in right where Maille's was. the Mason Jar is. He did a beautiful job. You couldn't ask for anything to be more rural characteristic. You drove him out. You put him out of there. You took tax dollars, a lot of tax dollars, because for every dollar worth of ice cream, that was seven cents the Town of Queensbury could have gotten a portion of. and I think in this Planning, it's wonderful to plan. It's wonderful to think about it. but lets talk about the tax base. The residents. a residential piece of property costs more for this Town to maintain than a commercial piece of property. that gives you a lot more tax dollars. So keep that in mind. MR. HARLICKER-And we are expanding the commercial zones. MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-I'm just saying. keep that in mind. because if you get too strict, we're trying to get stricter. I see the zoning change. you're trying to be more restrictive. You're trying to cut down. MR. MARTIN-Well, I don't know. I think that there's been a, from what I see, there's been an attempt to relax. They're calling for a five acre to go to a three acre, and for a three acre to go to a one acre, which is also would be a new zone, Rural Residential One Acre. That's a relaxation, and they're also calling for minor subdivision regulations, would be a one step process, rather than the two or three that we're going through now. MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-I appreciate that, and I'm well aware of that. but when you have 12 acres of land. and now you've made that available for 12 houses, that's going to cost more for this Town to furnish schools, to furnish highways, police departments. than it is to take that 12 acres of land and let it become a commercial 12 acres of land. and they pay taxes, and there's no kids that have to go to school on a commercial piece of property, but we pay heavily in taxes. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-And buses slow people down. too, on that road. - 20 - -../ -- WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-So lets all move out and just put a big commercial strip through there. and then everybody shop there and spend their money there, and we'll move into Washington County. That's where you live, right? MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-The only reason I live in Washington County is there's not land enough here to raise cows and farm on. that I can afford. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-It sounds like you want to make this whole thing CQmmercial, and nobody live there, just spend your money there. G1ve vueensbury the m6ney. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-If you've got a house there, I'm not saying tear your house down and put something commercial there. You can still have it. If you have a house, or say you want to retire in a certain amount of years, and all you can do is sell it as a residential piece of property. If that was being able to be residential and commercial, I think you would have more people that would want to buy it, and it would be worth more. MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-I could bring up something. Where you live, the gentleman that lived there, in order to supplement his postal income. would go over and pick apples, and sell them by the bag at that house, so that he had a little bit more money. WOMAN IN AUDIENCE-That's my father you're talking about. MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-That's right. MR. HARLICKER-Could we keep the personal arguments out of the discussion please? MR. FRANCIS MARTINDALE-Yes. I certainly will. I'm saying, here's commercialism. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. Anymore comments on the commercial zones? MR. MARTIN-We'll come back to it one last time, but for right now. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-Can you just clarify one thing, and tell me, Mac. if this is what you're saying. Maybe I misunderstood you. You're saying to have commercial areas that are present right now to stay at the corners, but are you saying the whole road should be rural commercial? MR. COFFIN-Talk to Mike Brandt. Franny acts like I'm the one that's zoning this. I was making suggestions I thought was helping you people. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-I thought I was suggestion. That's what I'm asking you. misunderstanding your What was your suggestion? MR. COFFIN-I suggested that they zone the whole road, and put this spot zoning in. and that they say so many feet each side of the intersection is one thing, where they can have dense Highway Commercial zone. and then from then on have a Rural Commercial zone. but a really restricted Rural Commercial zone. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-Right. I agree with that. I just misunderstood you. MR. COFFIN-Well then why is this going on? MRS. MARTINDALE-They misinterpreted you. Mackie. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-I thought you wanted to just go 500 feet from those dense areas to be Rural Commercial, and the rest was just - 21 - residential. That's what I thought. Okay. I misunderstood you. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. We're also proposing changes to the residential zones along the Route. Changes would include portions, or large portions, of the Rural Residential Three Acre zones, south of the Adirondack Park be re-zoned to Rural Residential One Acre, a new zone, allowing one principal building for each acre of land that you have there. Providing some sort of clause in there that would make that any subdivision of the property over four or five lots, something along that line, be some sort of a cluster design. MR. bBREWERf-I ft y,pu' rehconsiderin<:f . makinq theh comme,¡-cialh a ceJ:tain num er o~ ee Irom t e ln~ersectl0ns, and t e res~ OI ~ e roaa tne Rural Commercial, doesn't that eliminate the other zones that you're talking about now? MR. HARLICKER-Well, that was the suggestion from the audience, that there be Rural Commercial along the whole. MR. BREWER-I understand that, but if the Town decides to change that to a Rural Commercial. the whole rest of the road, then those zones would be thrown right out the window, correct? MR. HARLICKER-That would make the residential re-zoning null and void. Right. Exactly. MAN IN AUDIENCE-After so many feet back. It may still be in effect. but if there's a corridor through there, whatever the depth of your commercial is, it's not going to go through the depths of those lots. MR. HARLICKER-Right. Because of environmental constraints. probably the Rural Residential One Acre zoning would probably be confined to something like that along the road, because of the slopes and everything that are back up in here. The five acre zoning, over here and here, will be reduced down to Rural Residential Three Acre. Those are the changes. The uses would remain the same. We wouldn't make any changes. MR. WELLER-What are they going to do with the SR-30 zone at Ledgeview? MR. HARLICKER-Fifteen? MR. WELLER-Fifteen. MR. HARLICKER-That would remain the same, and so would the RC-15. MR. MARTIN-Yes, you're right. Jim, SR-15. and that's also got a mobile home overlay zone with it also. MR. HARLICKER-Right. MR. WELLER-Any consideration to playing with that, expanding or? MR. HARLICKER-No. We hadn't. We're considering leaving it as is. the same with the Recreational Commercial zone. So that's what we're considering with the Rural Residential One Acre zone. Does anybody have any comments on that? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Over there towards Route 9, where you have the residential, the residential area. What's the story on the tax situation there? I've got a half an acre. across Lake George RV Park. a half acre, and they've got me for $105,000. Now, is that commercial, or is that going to be residential? MR. HARLICKER-We're proposing it to remain as residential. MAN IN AUDIENCE-That's $105,000 for 100 foot of frontage. - 22 - '-- MR. HARLICKER-We had nothing to do with this. MR. MARTIN-I don't want to sound like a broken record, but we had nothing to do with the assessment. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I mean, if it was Rural Commercial, it would be worth that much more, right? MR. MARTIN-Yes. I think it would have probably, it would effect your assessment if it were to go commercial. As a preexisting lot, he could develop the allowed uses. MR. HARLICKER-Provided he could make the setbacks and all that. MR. MARTIN-If he could make the setbacks. MR. HARLICKER-Does anybody else have any comments on the proposed Rural Residential zones? Okay. We'll go down the list of proposed recommendations here. We've gone through the various zone changes. One of the proposed recommendations is to include interior service roads for commercial development and residential subdivisions. That's just an attempt to limit the number of curb cuts along Route 149. Hopefully, institute Minor Subdivision Regulations for subdi visions of four (4) lots or less. It would be a one step process, as opposed to the existing three step process that subdivisions have to go through. Essentially, it would be just a combination of Preliminary and Final subdivision approval at the same time. Clustering recommended where environmental constraints limit development. That was part of the proposed Rural Residential One Acre zoning, where any subdivision of over four or five lots would have to be some sort of a clustering design. Recommend against a four (4) lane highway parallel to 149 as a severe environmental impact on the region. MR. WELLER-Who do you make that? That's not anything you have anything to do with, is it? Is that a recommendation to make to DOT? MR. HARLICKER-Yes, just a general. MR. MARTIN-DOT asked for a copy of this study when it's done. MR. WELLER-So that recommendation is proposed to DOT? MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. HARLICKER-Right. MR. BRANDT-I think you ought to make very recommendation we make. as a community. incorporated in a State plan that goes DOT. weight. So you shouldn't take that lightly. clear that whatever it's going to be and carries a lot of MR. MARTIN-That's why we're bringing these up. MR. BRANDT-So, if you say that two lane road never expanded, I'll bet they'll acknowledge that. MAN IN AUDIENCE-That's a gateway to New England right there. MR. HARLICKER-Item Number Six gets to the reconstruction of the highway. Major reconstruction of highway (straightening. wider shoulders. setbacks, regrading). MR. BRANDT-In the new traffic. the Federal Traffic Plan, this is a major road. It's gone way up in classification. MR. MARTIN-National Highways. MR. BRANDT-Right. I got something today in the mail, I sent it to - 23 - -- you. about that. The one question I see. when I look at this. if we. as a Town, say that should never be a four lane road. MR. MARTIN-No, no. What is said there is an alternate road to be built, paralleling this, at four lanes. MR. BRANDT-All right. Then you ought to also say that you would rather upgrade this road. MR. MARTIN-That's what's being said, major reconstruction of this road. as opposed to a total rebuild of a whole new four lane road bypassing this, and paralleling this. MAN IN AUDIENCE-You'd make a four lane on Route 9? MR. MARTIN-No. We're just saying a reconstruction of it, as a two lane road. Because it appears right now, we don't see any traffic counts that warrant a four lane road here. I don't think that's necessary. but it would be very helpful to straighten what's there, and widen, this is only, I think there, what, a 20 foot wide paved area. MR. HARLICKER-Twenty foot wide traveled area, and three foot wide shoulders. MR. MARTIN-Right. MAN IN AUDIENCE-You better get the traffic light from the State. MR. KILMARTIN-Where are you getting these figures from? You don't see where it warrants a wider road, or anything? MR. MARTIN-No. a four lane road. MR. KILMARTIN-Well, now I've got to say something to you. If you've ever been on Bay Road. right out front here. and watch all these 10 wheelers and 12 wheelers corne down through here. loaded with gravel? Where do you think they're coming from? They're coming righ~ over Route 149. MR. MARTIN-Yes. They're coming from the gravel pit. MR. KILMARTIN-They're coming out of Washington County into Warren County, and they're coming down through here. and they're constantly, daily. there's three or four contractors, that have not only got 10 and 12 wheelers, they've got 18 wheelers. and 20 wheelers running up and down here, and I can't understand why you would say. not widen that road. MR. MARTIN-No. I'm saying widen it, but not four lanes. MR. KILMARTIN-Absolutely four lanes. MR. MARTIN-All right. You're saying the four lanes. MR. KILMARTIN-So anybody could get on and off, and still the traffic could keep flowing. MR. MARTIN-Okay. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Why was the four lane built at Comstock, between that whole section there? MR. MARTIN-That's not four lanes. That's only two lanes. They have some four lane wide intersections. where they have a turning lane, but for the most part, what was done there, I think, would be reasonable for this road. They widened it. and they straightened it out at two lanes, though. MAN IN AUDIENCE-They made passing areas. I think that's one of the - 24 - · "--' bigger problems. too. there's no passing in the long area through there. It has a lot of straight aways. MR. MARTIN-Right. MAN IN AUDIENCE-If you're talking four lanes, you can forget the residential. MARTIN-That's why. MR. COFFIN-I want to make sure that those traffic studies that you're using, that we were discussing at the last meeting. are revised, and not go by those, because those are awful. MR. HARLICKER-We're not. That's why we haven't made any reference to those tonight. MR. MARTIN-We're fully aware that the peak times of the year are the heart of the winter at the ski season. and the heart of the summer during the tourist season at Lake George, and those are spring time estimates, or counts, and those are the best times of the year, in terms of low numbers. We're fully aware of that. MR. WELLER-On Number Seven, you say that you're going to recommend against a four lane highway parallel to 149 because of its environmental impact. Has consideration been given to a four lane highway other than parallel to 149, that would connect Interstate 87 with the Interstate coming out of Fairhaven. to really expand on this recommendation? To me, if, I can understand maybe a lot of people don't want to run a four lane interstate highway parallel to 149, but don't we need a four lane interstate type of highway connecting Interstate 87 with the Vermont link? MR. MARTIN-In all honesty, I wouldn't have any idea of the counts you'd need to verify that, or. we didn't look at that closely enough to make that determination. I mean, you're talking about a pretty broad area there. and a road that would have a wide application and a wide usage, and we didn't get into that, in all honesty. MR. COFFIN-This was studied, back when Rockefeller was Governor. As a matter of fact. I'm sure Franny and some of the other residents that lived along 149 will remember when they went through and surveyed to put the four lane highway through, but the Transportation Bond Issue at the time got voted down. We were supposed to meet 87 with Route 4. That's why when you go over to Vermont, Route 4 has got this beautiful super highway, because we were supposed to meet up. and I only saw one other alternative, which was down through Fort Edward. MR. MARTIN-Right. I've heard that. The only thing I'm seeing, and I said this last meeting, when we touched on this before, is DOT consciously saying, we're going to designate this road. 149 from Route 9 on through to the Route 4 where it hooks up in Fort Ann, and put it on the National Highway System. and that, to me. says that they have future plans for this road, to keep it as the main arterial into southern and central Vermont. That's a conscious, because that's what the National Highway System designation means. It has to be a road of a certain size. a certain usage, and have a regional or interstate use to it, as this road does. So it indicates to me that they're making a conscious decision to keep this road as the main arterial into Vermont. and I don't see any plans. on their part. to deviate from that. MR. BRANDT-Jim, there is the Glens Falls Transportation Counsel that is part of a Federal program that really controls all of this, and that Counsel does have, or I'm a member of it, by my office. and it's my impression that Queensbury has not been represented over a long period of time, there and you know you're going to be on it. and you'll be working with it, and that's a new function - 25 - '- that you haven't gotten into yet. but we're going there. I think next. MR. MARTIN-Yes. I've just been going to the last three or four meetings since I took this position. but in the short time that I've been going to those meetings, that's what I've heard about this road, and it's on what they call the Transportation Improvement Program. It's on that program and listed as major reconstruction. You ask DOT what that means. and they say. we don't know yet. It's five or six years down. MR. BRANDT-It's being studied right now. MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. BRANDT-That's being put in priority, and we don't want to shut ourselves out of that. So we're going to have to look at that carefully. I mean, we shouldn't go in shutting any doors. MR. MARTIN-And that's what, I think. from what I saw of this. they're trying to accommodate in this plan, with wide front setbacks, and things like that. to try and accommodate. if this road is widened, or they want to take a wider right-of-way to widen the shoulders or the lanes. to accommodate that now. in the planning, rather than have, get into takings and things like that, or have to knock down buildings and things of that nature to accommodate a road reconstruction. MR. COFFIN-This is just kind of an off the wall remark, but wouldn't we want to encourage the four lane road, if it was going to have to connect 87 to Route 4, to go through Queensbury and not bypass it? I mean. I don't think anybody here would like that idea too well, because it's going to make any arguments we have about commercial on 149 kind of just air, but then again, I don't think we want this road. as a Town resident, I don't think we want this road out of Queensbury. MR. MARTIN-Well, I think the decision the Town has to make, do you want to see. if there is a four lane road going to happen, do you want to see it happen through this existing right-of-way, right over where 149 lays now and maybe have it widened to four lanes. or do you want to have 149 declassified, or maybe downgraded, and have it as a local road again. and a whole new four lane road that bypasses this and now serves as a new arterial to Vermont? MR. COFFIN-That's neither here nor there. The only thing I was trying to point out was. lets not lose it to Queensbury just because maybe there'll be one or two exits, just for an odd reason. It's nothing that anybody here probably would want to see, because it's going to take properties and it's going to effect any commercial that's there, but then again, I don't think I'd like to see it going through Fort Edward. because I'm a Queensbury resident, and I think that would just take away from Queensbury entirely. MR. MARTIN-Well, I think due to the use that you see in this immediate area, given the tourism that is generated by Lake George and that type of thing, I think it probably would have to be somewhere in the area of where it is right now. because that's where the bulk of the traffic is. MR. COFFIN-There were two studies back then. one was to come up through, I think it was 197, or down in Fort Edward, and the other one was to take down through 149. MR. BRANDT-There was a third one along the river, and I think it's extremely important. I think we've got to look at this, as a communi ty, you've got to decide, do you want this to be a main corridor to Vermont. and grow as the traffic grows, or do you want the road moved somewhere else, and I think it has enormous - 26 - , "-- implications to the people that live along it. and I don't think there's any question that the idea of making interstate through here. what they're really talking about is updating this kind of a road. to take heavy traffic like they did in parts of Washington County. MR. MARTIN-Right. Well, every indication I've seen from DOT is that they want to take this existing right-of-way, where this road lies right now, and upgrade it to meet this standard of a National Highway. MR. BRANDT-That's what I'm hearing. too, but I'd like to hear a reaction of tne people. MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's why we're making these points. Do you want to see it continue to develop along this way, I mean, this specific right-of-way, or do you want to see a bypass road that would be si tuated somewhere maybe north of this, or something of that nature, and this, then, would revert back to a local road again, because all that truck traffic. MRS. MARTINDALE-Upgrade it. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Upgrade it. MR. WELLER-This is an important issue that I don't think can be decided here on a show of hands. MR. MARTIN-No. I understand that. I'm just trying to get some. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I don't see how you're going to grade this road, for a new road. if you put a four lane road in, because you haven't got room. You'd have to tear everything down all the way up through there because it's crooked. It's got to be straight. It can't be crooked anymore. We all know that. It's got to be straight. If you keep monkeying around, like our Supervisor said, you'll find out that they'll go right up through Fort Edward. We'll lose all that, if we don't get at it. That's my opinion. We've got to get that Farm to Market route done before you do all this you're doing now. That's my opinion. MR. HARLICKER-So you're saying concentrate on upgrading the road, and then get back and do the rest of it. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Get back and, see where your road's going to go. You don't know where it's going to go anymore than I do. and I worked on the road a good many days. I know all this development, what they're going to do about it. They're going to make it straight. They aren't going to make more crooked than it is now. You talk about having developments on each corner. You go over there any time. in the winter time or in the summer time, when it's raining, you ask Jim right there, there's cars parked that can't get up Ox Bow. There's car way up to his house. You're talking about corners. There aren't any corners. That's all one traffic road, if you want to get down to traffic. The only thing stopping them up on the corner is the red light, and then they you go down by our house maybe 10. 15. 20 cars all in one row. If you want to get out onto the road, how are you going to get out if you have a fire or anything. It's all one heavy traffic road, but it ought to be a four lane road. my way of thinking. MRS. MARTINDALE-I would like to confess that my husband and myself. has had an interest in developing this road. We have quite a lot of acreage there, and we applied to the Town to please re-zone the property so that we can make a reasonable use of our property. and I feel that it is a reasonable use. What we see over here, where the pink is, we have spot zoning. One forty-nine was originally Farm To Market Road. It was a commercial road developed for the farmers to take their produce back and forth between New York State and Vermont. The original idea was commercial. In 1988, the Town - 27 - '-- went through their Comprehensive Land Use, and at that time, in that plan, with the master plan, they stated it appeared that this area was becoming heavily traveled and that they, at that point, were considering re-zoning the property. This was in 1988, and this was in the master plan for Betty Monahan's Ward. We applied to the Town, along with Ernie Brunnell and his wife, Bill Melon and his wife, Ron and Judy Barrett. my husband and myself, and Bob and Laurie. We have to combine over 100 acres. If you look up there in those few little spots. at the two intersections that everybody's complaining about, they're Highway Commercial, there isn't 100 acres there. So you are spot zoning. One forty-nine and Martindale Road, which is where we wanted to put our pancake house, ' not, as Jim Weller said, to use the existing barn. We want to move it back and have a nice parking spot in front, where people can see to get in and out, and have two lanes, have a road come in and a road come out, having the safety of the people in mind. and if we are denied this use, you're wrong. because our Constitution, which our forefathers fought for nearly 200 years ago, guaranteed us the right to State and Federal government, to make a reasonable use of our land, and you, if you don't allow it, are denying us our Constitutional rights. We have a right, just like any other person who pays taxes, to make a reasonable use of our property. and for 34 or 40 acres or whatever we have there. to just use two or three acres in the front and keep the back as rural in character, and keep it agricultural, that is not an unreasonable use of that property. It is at the intersection of Martindale Road, and if you were to hold true to as an intersection and zone it commercial or Highway Commercial, we would not be denied that right, nor would Bill Melon or anybody up there on Ox Bow Hill. That is another intersection. So if you took Ox Bow Hill, Martindale Road. Bay Road. and Ridge Road, and even allowed the commercialism there, you would not have any problem. That's where it's most concentrated anyway. is at the four intersections. Also, Route 9 is a State road. right? Okay. One Forty-Nine is a State highway. Quaker Road is a County road, right? One Oh Four Main Street is a County Road. All along Quaker Road, County road, and 104 Main Street, or Main Street in Queensbury, County roads. you are allowing all kinds of commercial use. and residences were there to start with, but they kind of pushed out the residences, and a County road. we have a State road which is heavily, more heavily trafficked. Where is the common sense, where is the logic in trying to deny somebody a reasonable use of their property? Like I said, you're spot zoning, and you're trying not to let us do something where it isn't spot zoning, for 100 acres or more, versus what you should have in those two spots. You're not using common sense. Also. the way questions are worded, as Jim Weller said. can really determine how people will answer their questions. and I would like to say, do you think a person should be denied their Constitutional right of developing their property when they use reason and care for people? We're all God's people. We wouldn't put anything there that we thought would kill anybody or do any harm. We're only asking, it's a heavily traveled State road, and what we have proposed to the Town is very rural in character. and it would beautify Queensbury. bring a lot of tax dollars, and make a beautiful new settlement, like way, way back in the old days, and it would be fun and recreational as well. and educational, and if anybody has a coin in their pocket. look at the inscription on the front of it. It says, In God We Trust. and please don't deny us our God given rights on this land. MR. MARTIN-Thank you. MR. BRANDT-I'd like to say something about that. The United States, what you were given was the use of land for commerce, and that did come, and it was very unique to the United States, and everybody was allowed to have commerce on their land. This Country has decided, for better or for worse, and this Town has decided, to do land use planning. and what you're doing is restricting the use of land, and with that, you're restricting the commercial use of land. I'm not sure it's smart or it's dumb. The problem is we've got more and more people, and there's conflicting views, and - 28 - -- "-- conflicts of use that people want, different ideas, and that's what this is all about. You're going to see more and more and more of it. We've got to be civil to one another, think out what we want. and talk to one another, and find an answer that works for all of us, and it is a maj or change in our society, and we have to understand that. We~ve got to learn how to work it, and you better believe when people say. well, ask the Town Board, and tell the Town Board to tell us what we're going to do, we don't know a damn bi t more than you know, and that's why we're here. and we're listening. We want to hear what you think. It's your Town. It's not ours. So you've got to decide what you want. A very key thing to me is. 149 is one of our major traffic corridors. It's very lmportant. It probably-brings more tourlsm through here than doeS Lake George, because it feeds Vermont. I don't know what the numbers are. but it's enormous, do we want that as a commercial opportunity. Do we want to capture that, or do we want to let it go? Those are questions we've got to decide, and you can't just sit on your hands and let it fall. You've got to take an active choice. and make your choice. and these are the questions we need answers to, and that's why this process is going on, and it's just starting. It's going to go on through your lifetime, and sure, there's changes that we know we've got to make. Sure, somebody did come and ask us to make a change on 149. and that triggered it. why we started here. We're going to do this in the whole Town, and we're going to have to learn how to do it and look at these competing interests, and you've got to take part, and you've gQt to come to a consensus between you, and tell us what to do. We don't want to tell you what to do. It's not our Town. It's yours. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Mike, I like what you're saying. I think it all sounds great. How does the decision get made. by coming here. and whoever talks the loudest? MR. BRANDT-No. Well, I think it has to be common sense, and it has to be give and take, and it isn't a matter of putting one person down or putting another person down. Everybody's got rights. It's a matter of how it gets done. In the end, it's a political argument, and who's going to decide it, the Town Board. So, it's a matter of how you convince them. MAN IN AUDIENCE-So these guys are going to go back to the Town Board? MR. BRANDT-These are employees, and we asked them to come and start this dialogue with you. and this is the second session. and it's interesting to listen to you. because all of the factors are there, and they're all being stated. but you guys have got to solve it, and if you decide to shoot each other to solve it, you can do that. If you decide to talk to one another and come to a consensus. You've got to look at each other's needs, and you've got to find what works for everybody. MAN IN AUDIENCE-I've got a lot of land on 149, from Ridge Road all the way to Bay Road. I had built kennel, a dog kennel, to keep my wife happy with her dogs. My road is 15, 18 feet long. I maintain my road. I take care of my own. I have my own sewer. and I have in excess of 17 acres on the north side, and my recommendation is, I'd like to see it Rural Commercial from Ridge down 149, to Route 9. I'd like to see Rural Commercial, both sides, eliminate all this. You cut me in half two different places up there. I haven't said a word. It doesn't make a difference. MR. PHILO-I agree with what Billy said. I agree with some of the things that Mr. Martindale said. This is a free Country, and I want to thank our Town Board, what they've done here. We didn't have a chance before, with the last Administration. Everybody has a chance to form their opinion. I said. I went on the Zoning Board, and I see a lot of things that I didn't like. but under this new Zoning Board, young Jimmy Martin has done a lot. and I know you people are disenchanted. but the way he's going right now, I'm very - 29 - ~ --.., proud of this young man, and his Staff. I've seen more advances in a year and three months, Jim? MR. MARTIN-Yes, since October. MR. PHILO-Okay. and I've seen an entire. and they brought some variances to our Board, and we've had a chance to talk it over, and some people that have had some hardships, and could use their property, in some situations. I just think. like Billy said and Mike said. lets get together and meet the needs of the people, and stop this bickering. If you sit down and come up with some honest stuff, without just yelling, we're going to sit down, like Mike said, and get this thing settled, and I know you can do it, and get the animosity out of your hearts. MR. MARTIN-Thank you. Okay. Well, it's getting late. I don't know how long everybody wants to keep going here, but I think it's important. I think the major, major issue appears to be. then, the commercial area, and where this Rural Commercial area that we sort of honed in on here goes. MAN IN AUDIENCE-You sent out those responses to the survey, you don't have it back up there again. but didn't most people want to keep it residential? MR. MARTIN-That's what I want to get back to, here, because it seems to be the major issue. Now, the way I see it here, there seems to be two small camps of thought, here. One, keeping the commercial around the intersections, leaving the Highway Commercial and maybe a fringe area around that that's Rural Commercial, and then another camp that says, the Highway Commercial around the intersections, and then Rural Commercial all the way down the Corridor, or from Route 9 to the Town boundary, Rural Commercial. that's what I'm saying. That's what we did here tonight. we went through it, and I think we got some changes to it. We cut some things out, like banking and that type of thing are gone. but what's the consensus here? MR. BRANDT-Isn't this going to tell you an awful lot. the amount of ingress and egress off of 149 from any of these particular commercial? I mean, you don't want to do what we did up by the Million Dollar Half Mile. If you're getting, no matter what you call a business, the real criteria is, how many people are going to pull in and pullout. and then if you're going to have businesses that have a lot of traffic going in and out, then you're gOing to have to cluster them and have off road. MR. MARTIN-Well, I think that's why they have, their one comment is here. interior service roads for commercial and residential zones. MR. BRANDT-You can't do it full length. So you're going to have to cluster those as you go, and maybe see what happens a little bit, and then force internal roads in clusters. That would be my intui tion. I don't know if it's right. I'd throw it out for discussion. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Unless you have an additional turn lane in Highway Commercial and Rural Commercial. and then after that it goes back to the regular road as what it is, so you have the ability to turn off. MR. MARTIN-So, you're saying, calling for turn lanes in certain cases? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Certain locations, as far as the use, what's being used on the road is fine. MR. MARTIN-But I mean, does that seem to be the consensus, then, of a very restricted Rural Commercial the full length of the road? Is that the consensus from the group here, tonight. - 30 - -- '---' '- MAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. That's a good idea. MR. BOB MARTINDALE-That's why everybody from overseas is coming over here. because they can't do things over there. They want to come over here and do them, come to America where they can do stuff like that. MR. COFFIN-What you want to other people's rights, too. Franny off about something favorable. MRS. MARTINDALE-You did say something in favor. be very careful of is infringing on Now. I don't know, maybe I ticked I said. I thought I was kind of MR. COFFIN-Other neighbors have to be considered, regardless of where you live, whether it's down in the middle of Queensbury, on 149. or wherever. MR. MARTIN-What if it was a situation like we have on Bay Road right now. where offices are allowed on Bay Road. but only 1.000 feet back from the road side? MAN IN AUDIENCE-Then it becomes economic segregation for people, because there's people that can't afford to buy a 1.000 foot deep piece of property to put an office building on or something of that type. It becomes economic segregation. MR. MARTIN-No, no. It doesn't have to be 1,000. within 1.000. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Yes. Definitely. I agree with that. MR. MARTIN-It doesn't have to be, it's only allowed within that. Offices can't be set back, like, 2,000 feet off the road. MAN IN AUDIENCE-That's fine. ANOTHER GENTLEMAN IN AUDIENCE-I've never been to a Town meeting before. This is all brand new to me. I believe that people should be able to do what they want, and I'm hearing everybody here say. I want to do something with my property, I want to do this. Lets make it Highway Commercial at the intersections. and make the rest Rural Commercial, tighten it down. Most of you are saying. don't restrict me from doing what I want, but then these people are setting themselves up for other restrictions. as far as the size of the buildings, color of the paint. MR. MARTIN-No. We're not going to get into that. From the standpoint, I think architectural review is a nightmare, and there's really, my personal view is there's no need for it. beyond a purpose statement, as a preamble to a zoning district. That's it. I'm not a proponent of architectural review. If you have a historic district, like a New England town with a bunch of historically significant buildings then, fine. you want to impose certain measures to protect the architectural value of those, but you don't see anything like that here. MAN IN AUDIENCE-Well, the other thing you have to keep in mind is most of the businesses, or a lot of the businesses. are going to be nine to five businesses, or something of that type. There's always a burden, no matter where you go, nine to five, okay. There's exceptions, restaurants, things like that that run later, but during that time period. it's going to be busy after that. when all , those people travel, things like that. It slows back down. MR. MARTIN-Well, I just want to bring everybody, now, where we're going to go from this point on is the Staff. There was an intent to try and get this done. not to force it and rush it. but to get it done in a reasonable amount of time, and not just have it drag on forever. and we had like an in-house deadline, we we're going to try and get this to the Town Board for, like, the first week in - 31 - -' "~" April, and we've got a lot of revisions, here, to do, or Scott and Arlyne do. to what was presented tonight, but that's the deadline we'd still like to try and keep, in terms of a formal. written report to the Board, but in between that time, I'd like, I certainly would encourage anybody here, or anybody neighbors that you know of who aren't here to come and see the Staff and talk to us some more, if there's something you think you want to say. or you didn't feel comfortable speaking here now, tonight, or something should corne to your mind in a week or so, come see us, and it's still not too late to talk to us, but I'd still like to try and keep that deadline. in the interest of advancing this forward, and there will also be a recommendation, as part of our report, to have the Town Board hold a public hearing of their own on this. So they can get, I think, one last input, one last shot at input. because I think input's important. because, 1 ike. for example tonight, there's been a major shift in the thinking here, I think. MAN IN AUDIENCE-A major shift to what? MR. MARTIN-Well. it appears the consensus is, certainly. Number One, a further restriction of this Rural Commercial zone, and a placement. apparently, along the whole Corridor. Does anybody have anything else they'd like to say at all? Anything on the list that was presented or anything? MAN IN AUDIENCE-There is a next meeting, or there isn't? MR. MARTIN-Well, that's what I'm saying. There's not going to be any meeting held by this Staff, and that's why I encourage you to come in. or if you just simply want to come in and see how the final draft is taking shape, and talk to us. MR. BRANDT-I think you should also say that if these people want a meeting, that they can call one, too. MR. MARTIN-Yes. If you notice, as part of our recommendations there, towards the bottom. suggest residentsllandowners form an association of 149 to encourage appropriate development of the corridor. We see this in many neighborhoods across the Town, they have neighborhood associations, and that type of thing, and they serve as a good vehicle for the people to talk to the government, and the last suggestion, come and see the Planning Department. Corne and talk to us. Does anybody have anything else they'd like to say? So, we'll try and get this in final form by that first week in April. If you're interested in any other suggestions, or you want to come and see how it's taking shape, come talk to us. Thank you for coming. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, James Martin, Director of Department of Planning and Community Development - 32 -