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1994-05-26 '"--' '.....Ii',' QlJEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING SECOND REGULAR MEETING MAY 26TH, 1994 INDEX .. Subdivision No. 1-1994 FINAL STAGE Subdivision No. 3-1994 FINAL STAGE Subdivision No. 5-1994 PRELIMINARY STACE Site Plan No. 17-94 Subdivision No. 4-1994 PRELIMINARY STAGE Site Plan No. 14-94 Site Plan No. 35-92 DISCUSSION ITEM Andrea Gray 1 . L. Rae Gillis 2. Joseph & Maria Leuci 4. Steven So I iman to 11. Guido Passarelli 36. Gary Cardinale 64. Howard Carr The Howard Croup Management, Co. Inc. 73. Proposed Site Plan for Native Textiles 74. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. \......../ '~ QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING SECOND REGULAR MEETING MAY 26TH t 1994 7:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT TIMOTHY BREWER, CHAIRMAN GEORGE STARK, SECRETARY ROGER RUEL CRAIG MACEWAN JAMES OBERMAYER ROBERT PALING MEMBERS ABSENT CATHERINE LABOMBARD EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN PLANNER-SCOTT HARLICKER ~ PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI OLD BUSINESS: SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1994 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED ANDREA GRAY OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: SFR-IA LOCATION: 563 BAY ROAD SUBDIVISION OF A 10.65 ACRE PARCEL INTO 3 LOTS - LOT 1 WILL BE 1.041 ACRES, LOT 2 WILL BE 4.948 ACRES, LOT 3 WILL BE 4.664 ACRES. TAX MAP NO. 60-1-12 LOT SIZE: 10.65 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS ANDREA GRAY, PRESENT MR. BREWER-Okay. Scott, we have no notes? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. Preliminary review problems involved, subdivision. Well, the I as t week, and Staff only comment there weren't can recommend is that, during any significant approval of the MR. BREWER-Okay, and we had the public hearing, opened and closed. Any questions from anybody on the Board? MR. OBERMAYER-The two, the lots, the way you're subdividing, do you plan on developing those? MR. GRAY-Not me, no sir, just to sell them. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay, just to sell them. Would they have a common driveway? MR. GRAY-Well, the map indicates there's two. Right now, there's one driveway. MR. OBERMAYER-There is one driveway existing. MR. GRAY-Yes, and it could be, the intent is that both people could use the same driveway, but if they don't like the idea, they certainly can put their own driveway in, because each one would own Bay Road frontage. I did that just based on the Town regulations. MR. BREWER-On the 40 foot? MR. GRAY-Yes. MR. BREWER-Okay. Is anybody prepared to do a motion? There is one - 1 - "-' / '~ already made. MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1994 Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, Robert Paling: ANDREA GRAY, seconded by As written. Whereas, the Town Planning Department is in receipt of final subdivision application, file # 1-1994, to subdivide a 10.65 acre parcel into 3 lots - lot 1 will be 1.041 acres, lot 2 will be 4.948 acres, lot 3 will be 4.664 acres; Whereas, the above referenced final subdivision application, dated 4/27/94 consists of the following: 1. Sheet 1, Map of survey of lands of Andrea Gray, dated 3/28/94; and Whereas, documentation: the 1. above file is supported with Staff notes, dated 5/26/94 the following Whereas, the proposed subdivision has been submitted to the appropriate town departments and outside agencies for their review and conmlent; and Whereas, any modification and terms contained in the preliminary subdivision approval have been complied with. Therefore, Be It Resolved, as follows: The Town Planlling Board, after considering the above, hereby move to approve final subdivision plat for Andrea Gray, file # 1- 1994. Let it be further resolved: 1. That prior to the signing of the plat by the Chairman of the Planning Board all appropriate fees shall be paid and that within 60 days of the date of this resolution the applicant shall have the signed plat filed in the Office of the Clerk of Warren County. 2. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this resolution. 3. The conditions shall be noted on the map. 4. The issuance of permi ts is condi tioned upon compl iance and continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and subdivision regulations. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Brewer .. NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard SUBDIVISION NO. 3-1994 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED L. RAE GILLIS OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: RR-5A LOCATION: EAST SIDE LOCKHART MT. RD. PROPOSAL IS FOR A TWO LOT SUBDIVISION. ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY TAX MAP NO. 23-1-29.1, 29.21 LOT SIZE: + 23 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS RICK MEATH, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Subdiv.ision No. 3-1994, L. Rae Gillis, Meeting - 2 - ~. '-.-' Date: May 26, 1994 "PROJECT DESCRIPTION: The applicant is proposing to subdivide a 8.7 acre parcel from a 23 acre parcel. The property is zoned RR-5A and is located on Lockhart Mountain Road. The 8.7 acre lot will be vacant and the remaining property has a house and two chicken coops on it. PROJECT ANALYSIS: During preliminary review there was found to be no significant problems with this subdivision and staff can recommend final approval of this subdivision." MR. BREWER-Okay. Any questions from anybody on the Board? MR. MACEWAN-Yes. the question was, I think where we left off on that last week was was there a variance in effect on that land? MR. BREWER-I think, in previous notes, that there was. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-It was going to be looked into to confirm if it was. MR. MEATH-My name is Rick Meath, on behalf of the applicant. We checked our client, and he did obtain a variance he said, approximately, three years ago. So, according to our client, he does have a zoning variance. MR. BREWER-Okay, and we can just add that as a condition, if the var iance was granted, we can recommend approval, if that's what you want to do. Anybody else? Would somebody care to offer the resolution? - MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 3-1994 L. RAE GILLIS, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan: As written, with the condition that the ~ariance was applied for and granted on the trailer shop that's currently th~re. Whereas, the Town Planning Department is in receipt of final subdivision application, file # 3-1994, to subdivide a 8.7 acre lot from a 23 acre parcel; and Whereas, the above referenced final subdivision application, dated 4/5/94 consists of the following: 1. Sheet 1, Map of survey of lands of L. Rae Gillis, revised 3/11/94, and Whereas, the above file is supported wi th the following documentation: 1. Staff notes, dated 5/26/94 Whereas, the proposed subdivision has been submitted to the appropriate town departments and outside agencies for their review and conmlent; and Whereas, any modification and terms contained in the preliminary subdivision approval have been complied with. Therefore, Be It Resolved, as follows: The Town Planning Board, after considering the above, hereby move to approve final subdivision plat for L. Rae Gillis, file # 3- 1994. Let it be further resolved, 1. That prior to the signing of the plat by the Chairman of the Planning Board all appropriate fees shall be paid and that within 60 days of the date of this resolution the applicant - 3 -- "--' ,.-/ shall have the signed plat filed in the Office of the Clerk of Warren County. 2. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this resolution. 3. The conditions shall be noted on the map. 4. The issuance of permits is conditioned upon compliance and continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and subdivision regulations. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Stark, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard NEW BUSINESS: SUBDIVISION NO. 5-1994 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED JOSEPH &: MAR I A LEUC I OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: SR -1 A LOCA T I ON : WEST SIDE OF WEST MT. RD. REQUEST IS FOR A 2 LOT SUBDIVISION. ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY TAX MAP NO. 123-1-10, 11.2 LOT SIZE: + 9 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS LEON STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 5-1994 Preliminary Stage, Joseph & Maria Leuci, Meeting Date: May 26, 1994 "PROJECT ANALYSIS: The applicant is proposing to subdivide a 10.2 acre parcel into two lots of 9.19 acres and 1.01 acres. The property is zoned SR-IA and is located on West Mountain Road. PROJECT ANALYSIS: The proposed subdivision line would not meet the setback requirements for the existing sheds. The proposed lot would have a very odd shape to it and because of the setback requirements almost half of the lot is unusable.. A reconfigured lot 1 could allow for more usable area. It appears that the driveway will service 4 houses. Each of the lots has the required 40 feet of road frontage; however this width is not extended in from the road for any distance and results in a disjointed lot configuration. This project also involves a lot line adjustment. The .67 acre parcel with the house on it was a square landlocked parcel. The lot line adjustment gives it frontageMon the road but also places the property line too close to the existing sheds." MR. BREWER-Mr. Steves. MR. STEVES-Good evening. As Scott has alluded to, the property now is really two parcels. Parcel 10 and parcel 11.2 are the tax map parcels. Lot 10 is the parcel of 100 by 150. What we're trying to do is enlarge that. That's the house lot. We tried to avoid, if you wi 11, the need of coming here to the Board. One of the problems was the need (lost word), so that necess'i tated the two lot subdivision coming before you. We have no problems at all including that shed. MR. HARLICKER-Are they movable? meet the setback requirements? Could you move them, so they could However you want to deal with it. MR. BREWER-Well, how big of a shed is it, Scott? MR. STEVES-You're talking about that shed in the back? - 4 - to' " ,-" ~.. '-'" MR. HARLICKER-The one in the back. MR. STEVES-We'll put the property line around there. problem with that. We have no MR. HARLICKER-Okay. The one in the front, on the side there. MR. STEVES-It meets it. MR. HARLICKER-Does it? Okay. MR. STEVES-On the plan that I have resubmitted to you, Monday, I have drawn in the setback requirement lines. Is that on that map? MR. HARLICKER-No. MR. STEVES-Okay. It is on the final map, and it has, that meets the requirements, but we will be glad to reconfigure that lot, .67, to include the shed lot. MR. BREWER-How do they get to that house right now? MR. STEVES-There's a driveway. You can see it on that plan. It comes right in off of West Mountain Road. That's what we want to use for all three lots, in the future. MR. BREWER-So it would be this, lot 2, lot 1, lot 3? MR. STEVES-Yes. This is the driveway right here, right now, okay. That's used by the house (lost word). It will be used by lot 1 and lot 2. There's a driveway right here, and that'll be used, in the future, by this lot and this lot. MR. BREWER-Okay. Who owns the house that's on there~now? MR. STEVES-The applicant. MR. BREWER-The applicant. Why wouldn't he make that lot line, the line where the shed is, why wouldn't he make that straight back? It's just a question. Why would he make that go back like that? MR. STEVES-To make an acre on this lot. MR. BREWER-You can't meet an acre here? MR. STEVES-No. MR. BREWER-Okay. So there's never going to be another curb cut on the front of this? MR. STEVES-No. MR. BREWER-You wouldn't mind if we put that as a condition? MR. STEVES-No. MR. BREWER-That this garage, this 40 foot path will service all lots. Okay. Anybody else? MR.OBE.RMAYER-Yes. Can you tell me where the septic system is for the house? That's not illustrated on the drawing at all. MR. STEVES-Right to the north. MR. OBERMAYER-How far off of the new lot line does that sit, do you know? You don't show it on the drawing, is what I'm getting at. Is it on lot number one? MR. BREWER-Well, if it's right behind the house, I would say he's got plenty. - 5 - '-- / "--' MR. OBERMAYER-Is it right there? MR. STEVES-Yes. MR. BREWER-lIe , got to be 75 foot from that line in the back s anyway, I would say. MR. OBERMAYER-It would be nice to see it on the drawing. Can you mark it on the drawing for us, so we could see exactly what the setback is of that? MR. STEVES-Sure. MR. OBERMAYER-Also the water. Are you on well water there? JOSEPH LEUCI MR. LEUCI-We have a well. MR. STEVES-There's Town water right in front. MR. OBERMAYER-That should probably be indicated on here, too, where the well is, and telephone lines. Do you have overhead telephone lines, I guess, or are they buried? They're underground? Those should also be indicated on the drawing. MR. STEVES-There's a little square shown on the plan that is the transformer, right in the front there. MR. BREWER-Why have the telephone lines got to be on here? MR. OBERMAYER-Well, according to the zoning requirement for a Preliminary subdivision, all the utilities are supposed to be shown on the drawing. They ask for them. MR. STEVES-They ask for them. It's not always shown, because they're talking about a proposed subdivision. MR. BREWER-What's the relevance? MR. STEVES-There's none, really. You've got to take it to Niagara Mohawk, when you get your subdivision approval, and ask them to design y~ur underground, and they can do that. They won't do it before you get approval. MR. OBERMAYER-That's fine, then. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. RUEL-I have a question for Scott. Analysis, you indicate four houses? Scott, under Project MR. HARLICKER-Well, the one that's up, adjacent to West Mountain, I believe, will also be serviced by this driveway, right? MR. RUEL-That's someone else's land. MR. HARtICKER-Right. Don't they use this? MR. STEVES-They park their car in there, but there is no legal reason for it. MR. HARLICKER-All right. Will they still be allowed to access that residence through this driveway? MR. STEVES-Informally, but not legally. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. MR. RUEL-So it's three houses? - 6 - \, <---/ -- MR. HARLICKER-I guess so. MR. RUEL-Okay. Thank you. MR. PALING-The eighty foot frontage, or forty and forty, quickly becomes less than half of that. Does that meet the emergency vehicle requirement after the frontage, do we know? MR. STEVES-The reason we did that is, the requirement of the Code is to have fo~ty foot frontage. You're using a common driveway, rather than to use or encourage three curb cuts, we're trying to keep it to one, and that's the reason for it. MR. PALING-As long as it meets the emergency vehicle requirements, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a question I'm asking. MR. STEVES-I hear your question. I imagine it meets it now. The house is there. The'drive is there. MR. BREWER-How wide is the driveway, Leon? MR. STEVES-The driveway, I believe, is about 12 feet wide, now, 16 feet wide. MR. BREWER-Are there trees on either side of it? MR. MACEWAN-There is on one side. MR. BREWER-I think the requirement, don't quote me, but I think it's, like, 12 foot. MR. PALING-Well, the total width of the two scales, a little over 31 feet. So if it's twelve, then you're, double twelve is twenty- four. You're meeting it, but I don't know what the rules, and I couldn't find it in the book. MR. HARLICKER-I think, generally, what they look for is a cleared accessway of about twenty-four feet. It doesn't have to be paved, but at least to get back in there. MR. PALING-Well, if it stays that way, they've got 31, between the two. MR. RUEL-It's okay then. MR. BREWER-Twenty-four feet it has to be cleared for a fire truck to get through there? MR. HARLICKER-If I remember right, yes. It came up cin a project a while back, private access to multiple lots like this. Generally, a twelve foot paved drive, but then room to pull off and maneuver stuff around. It's about twenty-four feet. MR. BREWER-Maybe that's where I got the 12 foot from. MR. PALING-All I could find is a reference to 40 foot, in there, which they meet. MR. BREWER-You don't happen to know where that is do you, Leon, in the Ordinance? MR. STEVES-I don't. MR. SCHACHNER-The forty foot is in 179-70. MR. BREWER-I'm looking for the width of the access, Mark. MR. HARLICKER-That was done in a letter from the Fire Marshall, is how I asked him for it, because it came up in another four lot subdivision. I think it was the Cardinale subdivision, off of - 7 - "--' -.-' Peggy Ann there. MR. PALING-Okay. It's not in here. MR. HARLICKER-No. I don't believe it is. MR. BREWER-It's not in the Subdivision design standards? MR. HARLICKER-I don't think so. MR. STEVES--Tom (Nace) just told me that, in the past, the application has been t2 feet wide and 20 foot clear. MR. BREWER-And that's not a problem on this? MR. STEVES-No. MR. BREWER-Because you have 31 feet. MR. STEVES-Yes. MR. BREWER --Okay. MR. RUEL-I just want to confirm one thing. lot 3? You will reconfigure MR. STEVES-The .67 acre lot, reconfigure that to include the shed. MR. RUEL-To meet the setback requirements? MR. STEVES-Yes. MR. RUEL-Okay. Thank you. see a number on it. That's lot three, isn't it? I don't MR. STEVES-Not really. No, because it's an existing lot and we're reconfiguring it by boundary line adjustment. MR. BREWER-So that doesn't have to meet the one acre. Okay. I'll open the pub Ii c hear i ng . Is ther e anyone her e to commen t on th is? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED PAUL REYNOLDS MR. REYNOLDS-My name is Paul Reynolds, and own the property directly across the street from this property, and I notice here in the notice of request for subdivision, there's no reason given. There's no reason given for dividing up the property into three lots. The reason I have is about a year ago, this property, there was an attempt to use this property as a business, to sell used car. There was a sign that was directly in front of the property for a short time, which was since removed, and I believe there was business conducted on the property, residential property. So I have a very obvious reason for understanding what's happening to that property. 1'm not sure that the business has stopped completely. We've had people come to my house looking for directions for someone who wants to sell a used car, and that's my concern. MR. MACEWAN-Are they selling just a single automobile, or are they selling numerous automobiles? MR. REYNOLDS-Numerous, to the best of my knowledge. When you erect a sign indicating the name of your company in front of the property, as a used car lot, you obviously are selling more than one. Now I'm not sure that that has been corrected. The sign has been removed. MR. HARLICKER-Have there been cars out front, or any cars on the - 8 - "- -.....,..,- ......", property, or anything? MR. REYNOLDS-It's a very large setback, and there's an unusual amount of traffic going back and forth. MR. BREWER-Well, wasn't there a variance or something applied for for that? I remember conversation, or maybe it was just asked if that could happen there. MR. LEUCI-Well, we'r~ just asking to just, the reason that we're subdividing is· so that we can build our own house. My name is Joe Leuci and I'm the owner of the property, and to answer your question, the reason we're doing it is to build our own house on the other lot that we're subdividing, our own, personal house. MR. REYNOLDS-There's no intent, then, to make this a business? MR. LEUCI-No. MR. BREWER-Is that it, sir? Thank you. to conunen t? Is there anyone else here PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. BREWER-Okay. We have to do a Short Form on this. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 5-19~~, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before the .JOSEPH &. MAR IA LEUCI, and Planning Board an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE - 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a signifi.cant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, - 9 - ~ / . .....r Mr. Paling, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard MR. BREWER-All right, before we make a motion, lets get all the things that we want done, Leon. We want the setback of the septic, well location, and we've got to get a letter about waivers. We h a vet 0 g ran t tho s e , a Iso. Wed 0 n 't h a vet 0 dot h em ton i g h t . Would you rather tonight or at final? MR. STEVES-It doesn't matter to me. MR. BREWER-Well, if we're going to grant them, I'd just as soon do it tonight and not have to worry about remembering. MR. RUEL-What's that for? MR. BREWER-The contour requirement, drainage, and the grading. So, if somebody would care to offer that, we can add that in. MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVI S ION NO. 5-1994 JOSEPH &. MARIA LEUCI, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Paling: As written. Whereas, the Town Planning Department is in receipt of preliminary subdivision application, file # 5-1994, to subdivide a + 10 acre parcel into two lots of 9+ acres and 1+ acres; and Whereas, the above referenced preliminary subdivision application, dated 4/26/94 consists of the following: 1. Sheet 1, Map of survey made for Joseph and Mar ia Leuci, dated 4/26/94; and Whereas, the above file is supported with the following documentation: 1. Staff notes, dated 5/26/94 2. Letter from Leon Steves, agent, requesting waivers, dated 4/27/94; and Whereas, a public hearing was held on 5/26/94 concerning the above subdivision; and Whereas, the proposed subdivision has been submitted to the appropriate town departments and outside agencies for their review and comment; and Whereas, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered; and Whereas, the proposed subdivision is subject to the following modifications and terms of the plat in final form: With the modification to reconfigure the .67 acre lot to meet setback requirements for the shed, and also we grant a request for the waiver for contour requirement, drainage, and grading. Therefore, Be It Resolved, as follows: The Town Planning Board, after considering the above, hereby move to approve with modifications preliminary stage subdivision Joseph & Maria Leuci, file # 5-1994. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: - 10 - ..",. .,' ,. . I · " ",-. / -...-/ AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Stark, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard SITE PLAN NO. 17-94 TYPE: UNLISTED STEVEN SOLIMANTO OWNER: TORRINGTON CONSTRUCTION ZONE: IIC-IA, SR-IA LOCATION: RT. 149, EAST TO RT. 91., LOCATED ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF RT. 149 AND 91.. PREPARATION OF' LAND FOR A FARMER'S MARKET ON A 3 ACRE PORTION OF A + 25 ACRE PARCEL. STEVEN SOLIMANTO AND PATRICIA SOLIMANTO, PRESENT MR. BREWER-Okay. presume you have all the answers we want. MR. SOLIMANTO-Steve Solimanto and Patricia Solimanto. MR. BREWER-Okay. Would you kind of briefly tell us what you're going to do? After our discussion last week, we wanted. MRS. SOLIMANTO-The parking lot got changed a little, because you wanted the two way entrance onto Ridge. MR. BREWER-So you've kept your entrance on 149. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Strictly in. MR. BREWER-How does that flow work? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Well, I've spoken to Herb Steffens, on several occasions, and talked to Jim Martin, and we have it 50 feet from the entrance of Stewarts, heading toward the Queensbury Golf Course, and it's strictly an in entrance. MR. BREWER-You have it 50 feet from, where? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Fifty feet away from Stewarts' entrance. MR. BREWER-Okay. So that puts you right in front of Walkers. MR. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. BREWER-And your exits are where? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Strictly on Ridge, and all the vendors will be required to enter on Ridge only. After we closed, we would chain off the access to get into 149 in the evening, and we wouldn't open it until morning. MR. BREWER-Wait a minute. I'm confused here. MR. PALING-There's one entrance on Ridge Road which is in/out, right? MRS. SOLIMANTO,-Yes. That's what you wanted. MR. PALING-Okay, and then on Route 149, what is t11is, out only? MRS. SOLIMANTO-No, strictly in. MR. PALING-This is in only. MR. RUEL-One way in. MR. BREWER-I don't see the entrance/exit on Ridge. -- 1 1 - -...- J MR. OBERMAYER-Right up here, Ridge Road entrance. MR. RUEL-Okay. I see. MR. BREWER-All right, way down here. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I tried to make that in as much detail as possible. MR. PALING-I've got it now. So you're in here, and this is in/out. MR. BREWER-All right. I guess I have a question. We talked about, last week you were going to have your vendors tear everything down, every night, and remove it, and then bring it back in the morning? That's the case. So there'l1 be nothing left there at night? MRS. SOLIMANTO-If we have someone that would like to, like, do you know what arbors, what arbors are, like a square arbor? If they want to use something like that for hanging their plants or things like that, that would be okay, but that is only on the condition that they're going to be there for a while. MR. MACEWAN-So then you're going to be operating seven days a week until the 10th of September. MR. BREWER-Change from seven to seven, to nine to nine. d MR. PALING-How far does your property go beyond the 250 foot distance you've got here? MR. SOLIMANTO-Twenty-five acres. MR. PALING-Twenty-five acres? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. PALING-Okay, and this is where you're going to put an office, now, which you didn't show before, right? MRS. SOLIMANTO-That's for the bathroom facilities. MR. PALING-Okay, bathroom and office. about it. Okay. We don't know much MR. OBERMAYER-Will the bathroom be a tank? Is that what it's going to be? I mean, what is the bathroom going to drain into? I was just curious. MRS. SOLIMANTO-} have done my homework. MR. HARLICKER-Well, what did you decide on for the septic system? MRS. SOLIMANTO-We were going to go, rather than going with the holding tank that has the elaborate alarm system. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. You'd have to get a variance to do that, also. So that's good. MRS. SOLIMANTO-We' would rather go with the septic with the leachfield. MR. HARLICKER-Okay, and the question also came up, what about water? MRS. SOLIMANTO--We're having A-I Water Wagon from Schenectady bring in a 500 gallon holding tank that's been New York State Safety approved. MR. HARLICKER-I can't answer that, if that's acceptable or not. MR. RUEL-Isn't this parking area going to be nothing but mud in - 12 - ',,-, '--'" certain months of the year? way to December, right? Because you're going to run all the . MR. BREWER-No, September 10th. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I have to go over another part with you. I talked to Rus sO' Connor. He's go i ng to be do i lìg the exca va t i ng and Hie gravel, for the parking lots, the driveway. It's going to be Number Two Stone with the dust. MR. HARLICKER-Number Four, Number Two, with the dust stuff on top. MR. BREWER-I guess something that confuses me a little bit, you have vendors lined up? MRS. SOLIMANTO-No. MR. BREWER-Then how can you put on here what's going to be where? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Because this is what I want and this is how I'd like to have it done, and being that the last time you asked me the size of the building, I figured I better show you where they're going to be set up. MR. BREWER-Okay. just was curious. If you don't have any vendors, I don't know how you're going to say that silver and gold is going to be here, and herbs and health food are going to be over here. MR. RUEL-It's called optimism. MR. BREWER-Okay. There's nothing wrong with that. MR. OBERMAYER-That's right. Are you going to have a generator? Do you have any electrical services on this site, so the office will be? MRS. SOLIMANTO-We're going to bring in electricity, at some point, for the 0 f f ice. We' reg 0 i n g to h a v e . Rig h t now we h a v e soma n y things to jump on all at once. Trying to find a water tank was unreal. MR. OßERMAYER·-Yes. You're going to have hot water, you'll need electricity or a generator, or something. MRS. SOLIMANTO-But we will do everything to Code. MR. RUEL-There'll be no lights in this area, right, in the vendor area? MRS. SOLIMANTO--I don't think it will be necessary. daylight hours, in the summer. These are MR. RUEL-As SOOIì as it gets dark, that's it. MR. BREWER-Well, in September it's not going to be real light out at nine o'clock at night. MR. RUEL-No. . MR. BREWER-The earlier it gets dark, the earlier you're going to shut down, I presume? MRS. SOLIMANTO-That's why I wanted to bring up with you, in the off season, our opening days will be cut back and the hours will be cut back, and what I'd rather do is come back to you, in August, and say, this is what I'd like to have. MR. BREWER-Okay. approved, anyway I would like to revisit it after awhile, if it is just to see how things do work, conditional - 13 - "--' J approval that they come back before the Board to revisit in August, or they offered August as a date. MR. STARK-Okay. MR. OBERMAYER-Are you going to show 'us any details on the septic system or what you plan for the water? MRS. SOLIMANTO-We're working everything out with Dave. Dave wants, that's what we're going to do. Whatever MR. HARLICKER-Dave Hatin, of the Building and Codes Department. MR. MACEWAN-Well, as part of their site plan approval. They would need to have a septic configuration for us, wouldn't they? MR. HARLICKER-Well, getting into the specifics, it's kind of hard to show w.here it will be. MR. MACEWAN-Well, you need to know the approximation, where it's going to be located, yes. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MRS. SOLIMANTO-It's very hard to reach Dave. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. It doesn't appear that because of the size of the site, that there would be any problems siting the septic system on it. MR. BREWER-I think if we make some kind of a, as long as it meets the standards of the Town. MR. HARLICKER-Standards, yes. the Building Department. They have to get a permit through MR. BREWER-I think that would be appropriate. else? Okay. Anything MR. RUEL-I still have another question about the driveways. I see on Route 149, in and out for customers, right? MR. MACEWAN-No. In only. MR. RUEL-One way, just in for customers, and over on Ridge Road, you have in and out for vendors and customers. I see. MRS. SOLIMANTO-We want all the vendors to come in onto Ridge. MR. RUEL-But when a customer comes in on Ridge Road, travels the full length of that, they reach the end over there, and then it says one way, doesn't it? It says, out. MR. OBERMAYER-Four by eight sign. MR. MACEWAN-It's two way traffic here. MR. RUEL--Yes. Okay. You come down here and it says, out, right? MR. MACEWAN-Well, that's for people coming out of the parking lot, so that they don't go out that way. MR. OBERMAYER-How wide, is this an existing gravel road? MR. -IARLICKER-No. There's nothing there right now. MR. OBERMAYER-There's nothing there right now. road going to be? How wide is that MRS. SOLIMANTO-The one coming in? - 14 - -- ',,-- . .--- MR. OBERMAYER-The one that's two way, in and out. MR. HARLICKER-One square is ten feet. It looks like it's twenty feet wide. MR. RUEL-This is all saying one way. MR. BREWER-One way in, Roger, one way in at 149. Okay. Are you all set with that question, Roger? ~ MR. RUEL-Yes. Thank you. MR. BREWER-All right. Jim? MR. OBERMAYER-I wonder if you could tell me how wide this in and out driveway will be, the one coming off of Ridge. MRS. SOLIMANTO-That's a preexisting so, it's up to Code. MR. OBERMAYER-The curb cut is already there? MRS. SOLIMANTO-It's preexisting. MR. BREWER-I went by it today, it's a pretty good sized driveway. Trucks go in there and dump. MRS. SOLIMANTO-We will have to upgrade it a little. MR. BREWER-And you're going to have to level that fill that's in there now, anyway. MR. OBERMAYER-Well, Russ O'Connor does good work. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. BREWER-Okay. Anything else? MR. PALING-We had quite a laundry list of items last time, and we don't have a copy of that list now. MR. MACEWAN-I do. MR. PALING-You do. their time or ours. Good. Then lets do it now, Have they met everything? so we don't waste MR. MACEWAN-Hours and days of operation they've answered. control has been answered. Access has been answered. Most all buffering has been answered. Vegetation's been answered, bathroom facilities has been answered. Dust the and MR. PALING-Good. No. I don't have anymore questions. MR. MACEWAN-I have two questions. What's the width of the buffer on Ridge Road? MRS. SOLIMANTO--That I wanted to discuss with you. guardrail. What is the requirement? There is a MR. BREWER-I don't think it abuts any other zone, so I don't think there li a requirement. MR. HARLICKER-Not so much a buffer zone, but a setback up there. MR. RUEL-It's 50 on 149. MR. HARLICKER-Highway Commercial, you've got to be 50 feet off the property line. ~ MRS. SOLIMANTO-Okay, then it would come in 50. - 15 - ~ .- MR. RUEL-Fifty? MR. HARLICKER-Fifty feet. MR. RUEL-The same as 149. MR. BREWER-Yes. You've got this marked as a buffer, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a buffer. It has to be a setback, not a buffer. There's a big difference. If it's a buffer, you're going to have to provide a buffer. If it's a setback, you've just got to be back that far. If you want to provide a buffer, that's fine. MR. MACEWAN-Well, what I was getting at and driving at, I mean, she's talking about, they're going to seed wildflowers on the 149 side, was that your intent, doing something along that, on the Ridge Road side? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Instead of leaving it all funny looking. MR. MACEWAN-Because that's the way I remember it being now, is there's some kind of vegetation in there, wild weeds, and all that sort of stuff. I don't have a problem with leaving it that way. That's illY opinion, but when you were saying buffer, I was trying to . get from you what you're intending on doing. MR. BREWER-I think she just got confused a little bit. MRS. SOL IMANTO-We I I , I think you called it a buffer, did you not? That's why I used that word. MR. BREWER-I think we talked about a buffer over on the side where John Bowman, he was concerned about a buffer where his property adjoins it. MR. MACEWAN-Right. MR. BREWER-And that will have a buffer. MR. MACEWAN-Right. width on there. On the parking area, you have a forty foot MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-Cars are going to be parked diagonally as you show it here. Is that going to be enough room for cars to park on both sides, with a drive lane in the middle? Figure the average car is twenty foot long. MR. BREWER-How big does the parking space have to be? MR. HARLICKER-Nine by twenty. MR. BREWER-Nine by twenty. So you haven't got enough room. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I haven't got enough room? It's got to be wider? MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-You park your cars, you're not going to be able to get them out. MR. BREWER-Well, if a parking space has to be nine by twenty. MR. HARLICKER-Each parkil1g space needs to be twenty feet long and nine feet wide. MR. BREWER-Arc we getting into something that we should? MR. SCHACHNER-Yes, it's fair game. - 16 - '\ ',,-- "---" MR. BREWER-I mean, because if they are, then they're going to have to mark the parking spaces. MR. SCHACHNER-You don't have to require they be marked. MR. HARLICKER-You just have to show that there's room. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. SCHACHNER-Let me also say, for the record, I meant to say this. If you ask me a~y questions, my firm has represented the Solimantos in the past, on completely unrelated matters, but I wanted to point that out for the record, if for any reason anybody wants me not to advise the Board on this. I have no problem doing that, and I don't imagine the Solimantos do either, but if they·'do, I would certainly respect that. MR. BREWER-Well, it seems, 250 feet back. How far is it from YOllr parking here to this? MR. HARLICKER-Well, it's 620 feet across the front. So you're 400 feet. MR. BREWER-So you're 400 feet. So you've got, just make it wider. That's all. MR. RUEL-It has to be about 55 to 60 feet. MR. MACEWAN-Sixty feet would be ample. MR. RUEL-Right. Sixty would be fine. MR. MACEWAN-With a twenty foot drive lane. MR. HARLICKER-Twenty feet for each parking aisle, and a twenty foot access road in the middle. MR. MACEWAN-My last question I have for you, how mobile is your mobile office? What is it? MRS. SOLIMANTO-It's going to be picked up and moved after the season's allover. MR. MACEWAN-I mean, is it an RV? Is it a holiday trailer? What is it? Like a construction trailer mobile office, that type of thing? MR. SOLIMANTO-Yes, set in the back, way in the back. Once you set into the septic system, it will be set there. MR. MACEWAN-And the rest room facilities will be in that trailer? MR. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-And that will be for vendors only? MR. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. ßREWER--Okay. MR. MACEWAN-It will not be used by the general public? MR. SOLIMANTO-No. MR. BREWER-I can't imagine the general public having to be there any longer than they would be at. MR. MACEWAN-If they're getting a tattoo, they'll be there a while. MRS. SOLIMANTO-No, not those kind. -- 17 - .' \. - --.../ MR. MACEWAN-Rub ons. MR. OBER!)ð.AYER--You' ve got rub on tattoos. MR. BREWER-You go to LARAC and there's no bathrooms there. MR. RUEL-Tim, I have a question. What is buffer zone? What must it contain? Here wildflowers, right? the definition of a we're going to have MR. BREWER-It's not a buffer, Roger. That's the confusion. a setback requirement, not a buffer. It's MR.IIARLICKER-Yes. A buffer's not required along there. The buffer would be required between them and the residential property to the east. MR. RUEL-I see. Okay. MR. BREWER-Right here is what a buffer zone is. Unpaved natural area without buildings designed to reduce possibility of adverse impact on land or water quality and/or conflicts of land use between two or more areas. No parking or storage of vehicles of . any kind or objects associated with the use of this property is permitted. When not inhibited with natural wooded plants, i.e. trees and shFubs, sufficient to visually screen adjoining uses or such zones, such buffer areas shall be planted, regraded, and/or fenced. That's what a buffer zone is. MR. RUEL-Okay. Thanks. MR. MACEWAN-If you are approved, how soon do you think you would be up and running? MR. SOLIMANTO-Probably we'd be looking towards, at least the end of June. MR. RUEL-The end of June. MR. MACEWAN-You feel you'd be in operation, then, by the fourth of July holiday? MRS. SOLIMANTO-I hope. MR. BREWER-Hopefully before then. MR. SOLIMANTO-Yes, hopefully before then. MR. BREWER-Okay. Anybody else on the Board? Okay. I'll re-open the public hearing. Is there anybody here to conment? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED JOHN BOWMAN MR. BOWMAN-I '01 John Bowman. I'm a neighbor to the west of the proposed farmers market. I have a question to do with the mobile office, and also, :from 149 south, the 250 feet. It seems the 200 foot buffer between the proposed business and our property, but then if you go beyond the 250 feet, from north·to south, is this taking ur more than the three acres they propose to use? MR. MACEWAN-I don't think so. MR. BOWMAN-Okay. The second question. I notice the mobile office is taking up half of the 200 foot buffer. MR. BREWER-What do you mean half of 250? mean? Way in the back, you - 18 - ,/ \.....--' '--/ MR. BOWMAN-Yes. MR. BREWER-Well, the buffer, legally, only has to be 50 foot. MR. BOWMAN-Well, then, what they said last week doesn't mean anything. MR. BREWER-Your property is where on this? This is 149. property here, right here? Is your MR. BOWMAN-Wel'l, if you're looking at the map, it would be to your right, unless you've got yours upside down, or I have mine, I don't know. MR. BREWER-This is 149, right here. MR. BOWMAN-If you put it one way, the bottom half is right side up. If you turn it over. MR. HARLICKER-Look on the end where the Q is on there, that side of the map. - MR. BOWMAN·-It's very confusing because the paper's upside down. Everything is then drawn that way. Anyway, if you're looking at 149. MR. BREWER-I'm looking right at 149 on the top of the map. Put 149 on the top of the map. Now we're looking at the map the same way. MR. BOWMAN-Yes, but everything else is upside down. MR. BREWER-Well, it doesn't make any difference. We're just using this as 149. MR. BOWMAN--And then it would be to your lef t. MR. BREWER-To your left. They've just eliminated 20 feet of that buffer they were going to provide between where their parking was last week and your land. MR. BOWMAN-So it's not 20, 1 ike they said. MR. BREWER-It's 180. Is that sufficient buffer for you? MR. BOWMAN-Yes, suppose. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. BOWMAN-I hope so, and why is the mobile home even less than that, the mobile office? MR. BREWER-We can have them move it over. It's not a problem. MR. BOWMAN-This is my question. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. OBERMAYER-Why can't you just move the mobile office on this field right here? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Because we would like to situate it in between the trees, so it's not so visible. We're trying to keep that natural field look, as much as possible, and the trailer is only 10 by 40. MR. BREWER-Ten by forty? MR. OBERMAYER-That's pretty good size. MR. BREWER-That is pretty good size. - 19 - \ " '>-' ---,,' MRS. SOLIMANTO-That's the only size they have (lost word). MR. BOWMAN-That's where the bathroom's going to be? MR. BREWER-For the vendors only, not for patrons. There's going to be a holding tank full of water, and there's going to be a septic system that goes into the ground. MR. BOWMAN-Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Thank you. Is there anyone else? ROBERT MARTINDALE MR. MARTINDALE-I'm Robert Martindale. How many parking spots are there total? MR. BREWER-Last week there was, 60. MR. MARTINDALE-Sixty parking spots? MR. IIARL I CKER--They , showing the here, 43. re on new map, MR. BREWER-So they , cut that down. ve MR. MART I NDALE--How many, to ta I ? MR. BREWER-Forty-three. MR. OBERMAYER-It says, 43. MR. MARTI NDAL E - So i f you h a v e 60 v end 0 r s, wit h t r u c k s, t r a i I e r s , maybe two people, where are they parking? MR. BREWER-Good point. MR. RUEL-There's a vendor parking area. MR. MARTINDALE-And if you figure maybe two cars per spot, could it be, two cars per vendor, somebody coming off the road? That means you should have at least 120 parking spots. MR. BREWER-They're only showing 27 vendors on here, Robert, well, three rows of nine. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Plus the sides. MR. BREWER-Plus the sides. Four rows of nine. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Some of the vendors will be bringing in an RV. A lot of vendors are bringing in RV's, and they sellon the perimeter around the RV. They would not be allowed to (lost word). That is one of the rules. I have another separate set of rules for.RV's. MR. BREWER-I would like to see all the rules, because you said last week everybody's going to pick everything up every night, and that's your regulation, not mine. .. MRS. SOLIMANTO-This is my rough draft, if you'd like to look at my rough draft, but I need this back. I couldn:t finish it fast enough. MR. BREWER-I just don't want to go by there at night and have a mobile home park there. MR. OBERMAYER-Are electrical outlets any of the vendors or anything like that? going to require any MRS. SOLIMAN TO-I hope not. - 20 - ;' "--'- '-' MR. BREWER-Okay. Let Mr. Martindale continue with his question. MR. MARTINDALE-So how many, there's only, what, 43 parking spots? MR. BREWER-For patrons. MR. MARTINDALE-For patrons, but what happens if there's one patron for each vendor, then you don't have enough parking spots. MR. MACEWAN-There's a separate area for vendors to park in. MR. MARTINDALE-No, that's not my question. I got the vendor part. They're going to park in the back, or wherever, but if there's 43 parking spots, total, and you have 60 vendors, isn't it possible that maybe one car will come in for each vendor, and there's not enough parking. MR. BREWER-That's every business' hope, to fill up the parking lot, all the time. MR. MARTINDALE-Yes, thought. know, but that's what planning's about, MR. BREWER-Well, it is, but. . MR. MARTINDALE-That's only reasonable. MR. BREWER-I understand, but if there's a parking requirement, does the parking requirement apply to this, Jim? If there's potentially 60 vendors, does the parking requirement apply to this? MR. MARTIN-The parking requirement from the standpoint of? MR. SCHACIINER--These are the proposed vendors, there are 60 proposed vendors, and the question is, is the question, is there a parking requirement? MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-What's happened, historically, in the past, is when a use is proposed that's not identified in our use schedule, like a recent one that comes to mind is a video store, for example, there's no use in our parking schedule for that. It's been the Board's discretion to arrive at an adequate parking standard, and there's nothing in a requirement of the Ordinance, no. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. MARTIN-I would say, in this case, you're talking about, essentially, retail sales, which is the most intensive use, in terms of parking, that we have in our schedule. I think it's one per hundred square feet. So, using that, maybe, as a standard, that might be helpful. How many square feet are individual booths? MR. SOLIMANTO-They're 200. MR. MARTIN-So it may be two spaces per booth, or something like that, would be. MR. MARTINDALE-That's 120 parking spots. MR. RUEL-We're talking about customer and vendor. MR. MARTIN-Right. The retai I standard is set to accorrunodate both the employee of the establishment as well as. MR. RUEL-The one per one hundred square feet. MR. MARTIN-Right, as well as the customer. - 21 - \, ~ -- MR. BREWER-All right. So you're talking 120. for patrons, this makes it more complicated. So if he's got 43 MR . STARK - Tim, J i nllny jus t s aid t hat you 0 n I y nee d 0 n e per because one is for the vendor, and they've already got parking, and then one would be for the customer. thing, vendor MR. BREWER-So all he has to have, Jim, is 60, for patrons? MR. MARTI N -- No. The s tan d a r din r eta i lis 0 n e per feet, and that takes into account both patrons operator, or the employee. hundred and the square vendor MR. BREWER-I guess what I'm confused about is he's got two separate parking areas. This is for vendors only. This is for patrons. He's got 43 shown here. So if he was to put 60 over here, and 60 over here for the, you know, I understand what you're saying, and I appreciate it, but there's no ~uarantee there's going to be 60 vendors. MR. MARTINDALE-Yes, but there's no guarantee there might be 120 at one time, too. MR. BREWER-There won't be 120. They haven't got room for 120. MR. MARTINDALE-All right. Then where are the people park? Are they going to park along the road, if there's no room to get in, if they want to stop? I mean, you're not going to be able to police that. There's no way you're going to be able to police that. MR. HARLICKER-Could you enlarge the area that you have dedicated for patron parking? MRS. SOL IMANTO-When I ta I ked to Mr. 0' Connor, Rus sO' Connor, asked him, if this does take off, if it does do well, 180 foot buffer zone, we would expand it a little, but we would do up to Code. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. You can show X amount of parking, provided you show space that's reserved for future parking, if needed. You've done that before, also. MR. BREWER-So I guess what we have to decide is, well, we don't h a vet 0 de c ide, be c a use it' s are qui r em en t . He has to h a vel 20 , right? MR. MARTIN-Well, it's not a firm requirement. I'm just saying, ma y bet hat's ago 0 d g u ide 1 i n e , i nth i sin s tan c e, w her ewe don' t have a specific use in the parking schedule. This is retail sales, and retail sales is that one per hundred. That might be a good gauge in trying to set a parking standard, because you really don't have an Ordinance guide to go by. MR. STARK-Tim, we ought to require at least 20 more, anyway. MR. MARTINDALE-So if they have a 200 foot area that they're selling, and they need two spots, one for the vendor, and one for somebody else. MR. MARTIN-Well, no. for somebody else. It's not dictated by one før the vendor, It's dictated by the square footage. one MR. MARTINDALE-Right. feet. They said it's 10 by 20, that's 200 square MR. MARTIN-Right. So that would be two spaces. MR. MARTINDALE-Two spaces, and that is for, one for the vendor, possibly, or none for the vendor and two for patrons. - 22 - "--" I , "--' MR. OBERMAYER-It's just total, square footage. . MR. MARTIN-Right. MR . MARTI NDAL E - Tot a I, sot hen the y s h 0 u I don I y nee d 60, be c a use they've got separate parking for the vendors. MR. BREWER-Okay. So we can make that 20 foot wider. Now it's down to 160, Mr. Bowman. MR. OBERMAYER-No, they have enough. MR. BREWER-How can they have enough? MR. OBERMAYER-Because they have 43 for the patrons, and then they have the parking for the vendors. Right, you need 60 for the patrons. MR. BREWER-You've got to make that 20 foot wider. MR. OBERMAYER-I mean, you could make this a zone for future, YOll know, make the 20 feet, if they have a problem, they can always hang on to it, right? MR. BREWER-Yes, we can do that. MR. OBERMAYER-We can do that, and that way, see how business is. You might only ten people in there. MR. BREWER-Then that way it doesn't make them, it makes them put the 43 in, then if need be, they've got room to go the extra 20. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. think that's a fair way to do it. MR. MARTINDALE-It's just that I travel 149, and I don't want to see cars parked along side of the road. MR. BREWER-I understand. MR. MARTINDALE-The next thing is, bathrooms for the public, there's none. MR. BREWER--None. MR. MARTINDALE-What happens to somebody that's riding for an hour and they haven't had a bathroom, and they see this spot they want to stop, and the little kid's got to go to the bathroom? What are you going to do? MR. BREWER-They don't stop. They go to Len and Peg's, or go, what if it wasn't there, what would they do? MR. MARTINDALE-They wouldn't stop, but now they stop for 15, 20 minutes. MR. OBERMAYER-Well, have other places. site. they've got Stewarts across the road. They I mean, you can't, specifically, pick on this MR. BREWER-Do you have a bathroom at your place where you sell vegetables? MR. MARTINDALE-Yes. MR. BREWER-For patrons? MR. MARTINDALE-No. MR. BREWER-I rest my case. -- 23 - ""---' ~ MR. MARTINDALE-We don't have 60 vendors there either, Tim. MR. BREWER-I understand. MR. MARTINDALE--And they aren't there for a half an hour looking around, either. MR. BREWER-I understand that, lets get off of that. All right. MR. MARTI NDAL E - A I I rig h t, 1 4 9 en t ran c e . W hat hap pen s to, i s t his an entrance that people come in for both sides, east and west, or is it just from the, say the Golf Course going towards Fort Ann? Can they come in from, say, coming back from the other way? MR. MACEWAN-In only, east bound. MR. HARLICKER-There's no way to regulate. They could come in from either direction. MR. BREWER-Either direction. MR. HARLICKER-What happens if somebody comes through the light, and tries to get in, and the traffic's coming this way, and stops, and they can't get in, and the traffic backs way past the light? MR. BREWER-Then it backs up. I understand your concern. concern about it myself. I have a MR. MARTINDALE-Okay, and I don't want to dictate what the name is, but I don't see this as a farmer's market. I see it as a flea market or something like that. It's very misleading to be calling it a farmer's market, where most farmers aren't selling gold and silver and cut glass and all this other stuff. You probably have nothing to say about, but I think that's very misleading to the public, and people corning by. That's all I have to say. MR. BREWER--Okay. Thank you. MR. MARTINDALE-One other thing. Excuse me. At the meeting last week, they went over impacts everything like this, and they said that this traffic impact on Route 149. Is that correct? just kind of summarizing what was going on? the beginning of on the road and would not be a In your reading, MR. HARLICKER-¥es, significant. It will have an impact, but I'd say, to generate, do they need a traffic study for this. MR. MARTINDALE-What I'm getting at is, we are going for a proposed, something happening on our property, which is on 149, not even near a light, and it was supposed to cause severe traffic impact, and we only have just us as ourselves, where we've got 60 vendors in here, and you say it's not going to be a traffic impact. I don't see how that's justified. MR. HARLICKER-There'll be an impact on the traffic. I didn't say there wasn't going to be. I said it's a quantifiable thing. MR. MARTINDALE- I'd I ike to start at the beginning and read that again, so we can see exactly what it did say, if that's possible. MR. BREWER-Read what? MR. MARTINDALE-At the beginning of the meeting last week, you went o v e r, jus t summa r y 0 f . MR. BREWER-The SEQRA review? MR. MARTINDALE-I don't know what it was called, where the traffic impact, is there going to be a traffic impact or not, and they said, minimum traffic impact. - 24 - ~ '; ¡ ~ . / '----' -...../ MR. BREWER-All right. You're talking about Staff Notes. MR. MARTINDALE-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. What is was, it says, access to the site will be from a curb cut to be placed opposite the existing entrance to Stewarts. Applicant has indicated that this is a preferred location by DOT. A letter from DOT confirming this has not been received as of this date. ,; MR. MARTINDALE-That's not what I was asking. MR. BREWER-What were you asking? MR. MARTINDALE-About the traffic impacts. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. The other thing here says that there was found to be no significant impact on the road system. MR. MARTINDALE-No significant impact, but yet we're not that far away, and ours was supposed to be a severe impact? MR. STARK-We're not talking about. MR. OBERMAYER-That's not what the discussion is tonight. MR. BREWER-Yes, we're not talking about your specific location. MR. MARTINDALE-Yes, but I'm just getting into saying, well, why can you say there it is not, where, on ours it was? MR. MACEWAN-Probably because of the fact that there was a light there at that intersection which would help regulate the traffic, and make it flow even better. MR. MARTINDALE-Not when the traffic is backed up. trying to pull in, like I said earlier. If they're MR. BREWER-Okay. You made your point. would like to comment? Is there anyone else who JOHN WALKER MR. WALKER-My name is John Walker. I'm directly across from the proposed site. You're talking about traffic impact, I would invite anyone to come out and sit at my place one day, and you watch the traffic, without their business, you watch what the traffic is today. You watch the tractor trailers going through there. You watch the number of tractor trailers that are running that traffic light. I don't mean caution light. I mean an out and out red light, and there's been some good accidents there already, and you're going to have traffic turning on and off from 149 in and e a s t e r I y and i n awe s t e r I y d ire c t ion. It' s not v e r y far, ma y be three, four car lengths, from where they're going to be turning to the light, and you back traffic up into that light. MR. BREWER-I was up there today, John, just to let you know, it's four cars and a tractor trailer, right to your door. I sat there and watched it myself today, and I had a concern, last week, about the exit and the entrance on 149, and it was mY. sentiment that it should be an entrance and an exit on 9L, which is Ridge, that's what 1 would prefer. That's just illY opinion. I don't know about the rest of the Board. MR. WALKER-It's a bad intersection. It's a bad spot. MR. BREWER-It is, and I agree with you. - MR. WALKER-I hold my breath. I hear tractor trailers hitting their air horns in front of my place, and you know inunediately that this 25 '--- --- guy has no intention of stopping, from both directions. I mean, it's not a good place to have an on and off right there, believe me. I wasn't here last week. There's several questions. Maybe they've been answered already. What are the hours of operation? MR. BREWER-Nine to nine. MR. WALKER-Nine Lo nine. Okay. You've got traffic from a westerly direction. This guy is coming from the west. He wants to pull in here. !-Ie's going to have to cut across traffic, and the same thing, th,is guy corning easterly, he's (lost traffic), but coming from a westerly direction, you've got to cut across a lane of traffic, and you get people coming down through there, and all of a sudden, they're not familiar, gee, there's a nice place to stop, and they hit the brakes and try to go across, or they hi t the brakes and there's no room to go across, and I don't know if you've been out there. I've been on that highway nine years now. I've seen some bad accidents at that intersection, and I can tell you, truthfully, how they drive that highway. It is unreal how they drive that highway. If the State Police, if the County Sheriff's Department, both Warren and Washington, were to enforce some speed limits on that highway, it would not be as treacherous, but it is very, very treacherous. El ectr ic. You're going to be open from nine to nine. You're going to have people tearing down at night, after nine o'clock. What are you going to provide for lighting here, and how late at night is this going to take place? I mean, we were made all kinds of promises by Stewarts, when they put that place in there, and Stewarts has broken every promise they ever ma de. We h a v e , the y , I' eon I y sup p 0 sed to ma ked e 1 i v e r i e s bet wee n eight and five, and that's a joke. We have tankers in there after those hours at night in the early morning, the middle of the night. We have lights on. They weren't supposed to be open, only until eleven o'clock at night, and now some nights you have lights on all night long, so on and so forth. You said you ~ going to provide electricity. If this thing gets approved, I would like ~ much to see a stipulation put in there that no generators be run on the property. Generators can create much noise there. MRS. SOLIMANTO-We have no plans for anything. MR. WALKER-Well, that's no plans. I'd like to see something put in stone. Caste in stone. Well, we can make that part of the motion. Are you going to work seven days a week? MRS. SOLIMANTO-I work seventy hours a week in the sumner. MR. WALKER-I'm asking, are you going to run this thing seven days a week. MR. BREWER-Yes. They are. MR. WALKER-Okay. MR. BREWER-As time goes on, and business drops off, they're going to cut back, as well as the with the hours. When it starts getting dark at eight o'clock, they're going to back off to seven o'clock, six o'clock. MR. WALKER-And it comes from when in the spring, until when in the fall? MR. BREWER-It says here, May through September 10th. that's th~ beginning of May, providing the weather. presume MR. WALKER-And the other thing, this gentleman said people can go into Stewarts. I'd invite you to watch the operation at Stewarts, too, and see how many people use the outside of Stewarts' building, not the inside of Stewarts' building. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, I imagine they do. - 26 - '---- --..-/ MR. WALKER-There's no imagine. Stewarts, if you happen to walk in, they have one rest room. You cannot see a sign that says rest room, because it's covered with a sign about like this. Stewarts does not advocate going in and using their rest rooms. That's why the outside of their building gets used frequently, daily. That's about all I've got. MR. BREWER-Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else? PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. BREWER-Okay, going to do. fellas, I guess we've got to decide what , we re MR. MACEWAN-I have a couple of more questions I'd like to ask. Last week, when you spoke to us about the vendor area, you said that you wanted to keep it uniform, that there were going to be tarp tent type structures, and I noticed that in your rules you said that everyone's got to have a white tarp so that everything is matching and doesn't look obtrusive, but you just made a statement that you said some of the folks may come in RV's, and they have awnings they pull down off the side of their RV's ·and sellout their RV's. Which is it going to be? MR. SOLIMANTO-We wouldn't be able to control it, if they came up in an RV. MR. MACEWAN-Well, you would have to, because if your vendor areas that you told us are twenty by twenty, an RV's bigger than twenty foot. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Some vendors (lost word). MR. MACEWAN-But I guess your rules and regulations are saying that you want, and what you told our Board was that, you want to have it set up so that everyone has either an arbor type, or the portable pop up sun tents, you know, with the tent structure, that can pop and take down every night, but you're also saying, now, that RV's are going to be parking in that spot as well. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I had brought up at the last meeting, I believe, I don't have the minutes. They said they wouldn't be ready until this morning, but I believe that we would allow RV's to come in, like the double lot or triple lot, and they can park their RV, and, yes, they can put up their white tarp. Now, if somebody is staying for quite a while, if they want to build an arbor type display, that's fine, and they want to put up a white tarp to reflect the sun, to be cooler, to be more attractive, but I would imagine, I'm going to try to keep it as much whi te as possible. To me, that is a nice look. MR. MACEWAN-I'm trying to envision this with numerous white tents or tarps in there, with every other one with a big RV sticking up above everything. MR S. SOL I MAN TO - Well, t his i s w her ewe h a vet h eve n d 0 r par k in g () v e r here. I don't know how many RV's are going to park in here, and I tried to, when I gave you that grey piece of paper up there, tried to position the RV's so they're not that noticeable from the road. I tried to take that into consideration. MR. BREWER-Make the RV's back in the back, that's all. If there's going to be RV's there, require them to be in the back. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Whatever recommendations you make, we'll follow. MR. BREWER-Okay. Anything else? MR. RUEL-Yes. vendor parking Your area. plan, does not show the dimensions Do you know what they are? of the - 27 - ~ MRS. SOLIMANTO-What is it, nine by twenty. MR. RUEL-What, each slot is? mean, the total area. ., MR. SOLIMANTO-'You mean from one end to the other end? MR. RUEL-Yes. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I don't know. MR. BREWER-It's about 400 feet. MR. RUEL-And what's the width? MR. MACEWAN·-Nine foot. MR. RUEL-Nine? MR. BREWER-They have to be, Roger. They have to be nine by twenty. That's about 400 feet. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. BREWER-Three hundred and fifty feet. MR. RUEL-Yes. So they will be parking parallel to the road, right? MR. SOLIMANTO-No, that's ill the back. That's not on 149. That's in the back. MR. RUEL-I know. I '01 talking about the back. your road, the gravel road, the driveway. parallel to that, right? I'm talking about They'll be parking MR. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. RUEL-Okay. Thanks. So you have twenty parking spaces there, right? MR. BREWER-He's got more than sufficient room for parking there. MR. OBERMAYER-How do you plan on controlling the parking? This is going to kind of be wide open space, right? Are there going to be any control measures, or are people just going to park wherever? MR. SOLIMANTO-I was going to mark the parking spots. Did you ever see, in a football field, how they put the powder down, the lines, that's how. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. That answered that question. MR. BREWER-Okay. ßob, do you have any questions? MR. PALING-In the May 19th summary they talked about a letter from DOT confirming their recommendation for a curb cut. Has that letter ever been received? MR. HARLICKER-We haven't heard anything from them, no. MR. MARTIN-I would say, the Town went to a lot of trouble and effort to prepare the Corridor Study, and the reconunendations of that are~to keep curb cuts to a minimum, and where possible, have access off of alternate routes, especially at the intersections. I mean, I think, if we're going to go to the trouble of preparing these plans, they should be adhered to once the concepts are out there. Otherwise, it's just folly to do that. MR. MACEWAN-Are you in favor of having no access from 149? MR . MAR TIN - Yes, t hat's w hat I' m say i n g . I mean, it's a rare - 28 - ,', , -", ! - '---- ~ instance in the Town where we have a specific corridor study just recently done, and those are the recomrnendations from it, and I think they should be adhered to. MR. ßREWER-I wholeheartedly agree. MR. OBERMAYER-Me, too. MR. SOLIMANTO-This isn't the curb cut. We talked to DOT. There is no curb there. MR. MARTIN-I mean, access point. MR. MACEWAN-That's all it means. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I-Ie explained to me, okay, lets suppose we don't get, Herb Steffens explained to me, suppose we don't succeed. The next person that walks in might set up four big massive stores there, and you're going to have four driveways. Okay. MR. BREWER-Not necessarily. any. If we don't allow it, there won't be MRS. SOLIMANTO-This is zoned commercially. It's on a State road, and he said that we are entitled to it, and this is where he said, try to negotiate with them, and I'm trying to negotiate, and this is why I said just to let me please have an in, and I explained to him. I went over this with him. If people are going down 149, this is 621 feet of frontage. If they keep travelling down this road, and they're looking and looking and looking, h~w do I get i here? They're not watching the road. They're looking for the entrance. Now there is no entrance. Now they're going to turn around in Mr. Wal ker' s, or they're going to turn around in the other gentleman's house property, or they're going to turn around in the next person's piece of property, and they're going to back out onto 149, to come back down, to find the entrance. I think that will cause much more traffic. MR. MACEWAN-If signage is used wisely, you'd probably alleviate most all of that problem. MR. SOLIMANTO-Well, we couldn't put a sign east of our property. MR. MACEWAN-Do you own this property? the property? I thought you were leasing MR. SOLIMANTO-We are leasing the property. MR. OBERMAYER-Has DOT agreed to putting in a curb cut at this location? MRS. SOLIMANTO-He said he would give us a temporary access, which is an in. MR. OBERMAYER-Will he give that to you in writing? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. He was supposed to have called Jim. MR. MARTIN-I do have a call from him. MRS. SOLIMANTO-He's supposed to call you back again. MR. MARTIN-Yes. lie did call me back. wasn't there when the call came in. I didn't talk to him. MRS. SOL IMANTO-And the temporary access, s u c c e ed, the n w hen we mo v e 0 u t , the n e x t cannot use that driveway for conID1ercial. he said person if we do that walks not in MR. BREWER-There is no driveway there, right now. - 29 - ,/ ........, .. MRS. SOLIMANTO-In other words, if we're given temporary access. MR. STARK-And they're going to put a driveway in. Russ is going to put one in, but it's only going to be a temporary. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Sorneone else cannot claim that this is already a driveway. It's a temporary driveway. MR. MACEWAN-But it's part of the site plan review, if this Board feels that that driveway access would not be safe to the public, we have every right to deny it, that aspect of it. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I think it would (lost word). It's like a lot of these other people who are on 149 have a business. We need an access off of 149. I mean, if the State wants to put a sign saying, please slow down, or 11Ionitor the roads better, by all means, I agr ee . MR . STARK - Tim, can you en vis ion, I i k e , S t e war t s not h a v i n g an access onto 149? You'd have to enter through Ridge Road. I mean, it would be very inconvenient. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. If DOT doesn't have a problem with it. MR. BREWER-Well, we don't know that. I'm not calling anybody a liar, but I would like to see something in writing. MR. SOLIMANTO-We wouldn't be able to put an entrance there if DOT didn't give us permission. MR. BREWER-You're right. What do we want to do? Do you want to move on? MR. RUEL--I think that there are an awful lot: of conditions attached to this, and also, I know you did your best on the plan, but it needs a lot of work, and because of modi f ications made this evening, it should be reflected in the plan. We have a lot of changes here, and we had a lot of questions because the plan wasn't too clear, in many cases, and this could be clarified with a better plan. That's illY. thinking, and also I think we have an awful lot of conditions that should, to approve something like this, with that many con d i t ion s, I don' t f a v 0 r t hat a t a II . MR. PALING-Yes, I'd be inclined to go along with Roger. I don't like to do it, but it's still a little hazy because of the way it's laid out and the conditions we've set for approval. I think it can still be done, but I'd like to see it a little bit more clearly defined, and I'd also like to see, to combine with Jim's remark, what DOT has to say about this, because we really don't know. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Well, that 's not really fair to me. I have laid out a lot of money. I've got a lot of people waiting to start work, okay. My season's very shor t. It's no t my fau 1 t tha t Herb Steffens did not reach Jim Martin. His secretary in the office knows how many times ~ called. MR. BREWER-But is it fair to us, ma'am, to make us sit here, without a complete plan? MRS. SOLIMANTO-If I was to bring in a letter tomorrow, because I asked Herb if I could come up there tomorrow. MR. SOLIMANTO-What is the question? MR. BREWER-I guess what Roger stated, and I kind of agree with him, and Bob kind of agrees wi th him so far, that we've got so many things to condition on this plan. MR. RUEL-I'll just mention a few, all right, move the mobile office east, widen the parking lot, provide 50 foot setbacks on Ridge and - 30 - >",---, ¡ ., ~. 149, provide 180 foot buffer on west side of the parking area. MR. BREWER-No. I don't think you have to provide that buffer. think it exists. Is that correct? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. BREWER-Show vendor parking area width. Vendors should be out by dusk. No electric generators, and you should add, as Item 15 on your Rules and Regulations, that there be no electric generators. There's probably more items. That's all l caught. MR. BREWER-No overnight lodging. I mean, you've got two sets of rules. You've got this set you gave us tonight. This set you had made up for RV's. I don't think you have a plan as to where the RV's are going to be on here. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Well, you just asked that I put them in the back, and I will put them in the back. If you want to make conditions, and set them down on a piece of paper. MR. BREWER-I guess what we're saying, ma'an¡, is too many conditions. If you come back with a plan that says RV's will be here, okay. The parking lot is widened. The setback is made here, on Ridge, okay, outlined on 149 not a problem, a letter from DOT stating what they feel about the curb cut on 149. Tho~e are things we're talking about. I mean, if we give you an approval tonight with those conditions, we never see this plan again. It's up to Jim to go through our notes and the minutes tonight, and figure out what conditions we made, and have they been met. MR. MACEWAN-I agree with everybody else. MR. OBERMAYER-I agree with you guys, too. MR. STARK-Well, you said you would give a conditional, provisional okay, and that would be reviewed in August. Okay. Review everything in August. If it's up and running, you can see that the RV's are, on a site visit, you go up and you see that the RV's are back. MR. BREWER --And if they' r e no t . MR. STARK-Then you give a conditional okay until site visit in August, or whenever. MR. OBERMAYER-Why couldn't we just, I know you're not going to be happy with this, but why couldn't we table it again until they meet all the conditions and give us more detail on the revisions that we have tonight, because we do have a lot of questions. MR. BREWER-I still would like a letter from DOT, and I think last week we i nd i ca ted t ha t we wan t ed a comp let e p I an when you come back tonight. As far as 1 can see it's not a complete plan. MR. STARK-Tim, isn't there a meeting the first week in June? MR. BREWER-It's the 21st. MR. STARK-No, no, but wasn't there somebody who requested a meeting? MR. BREWER-They requested it, but I denied it. MR. STARK-Okay. I was going to say they could come the first week in June, to that meeting there, because what you're doing, in essence, if you make them come back the 21st of June, that's the season, it's allover. MR. OBERMAYER--We're going to ruin their season. That's a good - 31 -- .....,-'" point. MR. BREWER-But is it our fault they didn't have a complete plan, George? MR. STARK-No, it's not, but everything we ve said she agreed to. MR. BREWER-She agreed to it, but I've said it over and over again. MR. MACEWAN-I agree with Tim. MR. BREWER-I've laid out conditions for other people and they don't ~et met, and then we end up, a year down the road or two years down the road, and they never get met, George, and I'm tired of getting bur n 1. T h a I: 's my 0 pin ion. MR. STARK-Well, in this case, you have a chance to condition an approval on a review in August. MR. BREWER-You guys can do what you want, but I won't. That's my stand. It's going to be my stand in the future that any plan that comes before us, if the conditions aren't met, no CO w.ill be granted, not even a temporary. That's just my little shtick. MR. RUEL-Tim, would this be a permanent approval, or is there a time I imi t? MR. BREWER-We were going to give them an approval, and they would corne back and we would re-review it in August, she asked. You guys can make a motion if you want to, but I've told you how I feel. MR. OBERMAYER-We have a lot of people that come up in front of us, and we do require them to give us, you know, more detail than this. I understand, you probably did this yourself, right? MRS. SOLIMANTO-The hardest part was overcoming the bathroom. I spent a lot of time on that. You made it a very main issue. If you want me to move the mobile office east, that's fine. I'll do it. The reason why I put it there is I figured if I had put it east, that you would ask for it to be moved in the trees, and that's why I moved it in the trees. MR. BREWER-To me, I don't even see any trees on this. know that there's trees there? How can I MRS. SOLIMANTO-There's trees there. MR. BREWER-I believe you, but looking at this map, I can't tell if there's trees there, or a wall there. MR. STARK-The trees are indicated. MR. OBERMAYER-Right here, where the office is, see these little, these are trees. MR. STARK-The trees are indicated. MR. PALING-The trees are drawn there. MR. MACEWAN--Your last conversation that you had with DOT, did they .§..ª-y they were going to send you a letter confirming what their feelings were on a curb cut? MRS. SOLIMANTO-He said tomorrow morning they will issue me a permit. MR. MACEWAN-Tomorrow morning meaning after you are approved? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. - 32 - .t,'. -, '-- _/ MR. MACEWAN-I would like to see a letter from them first. That's what 1 would like to see. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Well, I could have gone there today, but, this is where he asked me to negotiate with you. I'm trying not to argue with you. MR. BREWER-How about, if we had a Special Meeting for you the 7th, and you had all this stuff done, would that still give you time to open? You could open the 8th, prov ided you got the approval, if you come back ~ith a complete plan, and a letter from DOT, stating they have no objection to a curb cut, not saying you're going to get it, but. MR. STARK-Tim, they couldn't open the 8th if you gave them the okay on the 7th, because Russ has site preparation, but why don't you make a recommendation, see Leon Steves, or something, to have him draw up a plan, and so on and so forth. MR. MACEWAN-Well, I don't think they have to go to the expense of having to have it surveyed. I mean, they need to have more detail than what they've got. MR. BREWER-Is that sufficient time for you to do that? MRS. SOLIMANTO-In other words, you want me to have the gravel done? MR. BREWER-No, no, no. I want you to come back with a complete plan showing the RV's, where they're going to be, the parking for the RV's, the setbacks on Ridge Road. w MR. MARTIN-Tim, could I make a suggestion to help? Why don't we set a date for them to submit this to the Planning Office, and you, tonight, enumerate the things you want to see on that map, and set the date in such a manner that it gives them a few days, if it's not all met, that we can tell them that and give them a couple of more days to make sure that it is met. MR. BREWER-We'll give them until the sixth to meet all of the requirements, and we can have a meeting Wednesday the eighth. MR. MARTIN-Well, I'm saying maybe even like the second, and then that gives them six days cushion, should something not be right even s till. MR. BREWER-No, the second's not a good idea. I would say at least until the sixth. MR. MARTIN-All right. MR. BREWER-Only because of the holiday, Monday. MRS. SOLIMANTO-I can have it done by the second. MR. BREWER-That's totally up to you. MR. STARK-Okay. List all the concerns, though, Tim, so she can write them down. MR. BREWER-Okay. Roger's got a nice list of them over there, and we'll table it and have a Special Meeting. MR. OBERMAYER-Show the new widths of the parking lot, remember they increased it 60 foot. MR. BREWER-Yes. All right, Roger, do you want to go down the list for them, 0 r ma k e them a cop y 0 f you r lis t, and we'll add to it. Say what you've got. MR. STARK-Tim, when's the meeting? -- 33 -- .<,~ ',-/ MR. BREWER-We'll have the meeting the seventh. MR. STARK-The seventh. Where? MR. BREWER-Downstairs in the Conference Room. MR. STARK-Seven o'clock. Okay. MR. BREWER-Give them the list. MR. RUEL-Do you want to hear it? MR. BREWER-Do you want to write it down as he reads it? MR. RUEL-Increase size of customer parking lot to 60 feet. Parking areas can be 9 by 20. I think you had indicated 10 here. They can be nine. Show the location of RV's in the existing field. Indicate the vendor parking area width. Add to your rules and regulations that vendors should be out by dusk, before dark, since there won't be any lighting, and then it will vary, depending on the time of year. Add also to your rules and regulations, no electric generators permitted. Is there a need for moving the mobile office east, as we had discussed? MR. STARK-It would be better in the trees. MR. OBERMAYER·-Yes. MR. RUEL-In order to maintain the buffer of 200 feet. MR. BREWER-I think it's better in the trees. If it's in the trees, why not leave it hidden in the trees. MR. RUEL-Leave it where it is. MR. BREWER-It's almost even with the end of the parking anyway. MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. RUEL-Provide DOT letter on curb cut, 149. MR. BREWER-I would suggest that you combine this list onto this lis t . MR. RUEL-What is that list you re holding? MRS. SOL~MANTO-That's that one I didn't finish off. MR. RUEL-Okay. MR. BREWER·-I.f you're going to do this, could you just flip it around? MR. RUEL-North up, not down. MR. BREWER-All right. Is there anything else that we missed? You've got no overnight lodging on there, correct? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. BREWER-You've got it on there, though? MR S. SOL I MAN TO - Well, t hat's go i n g to be i n add i t ion tot h e (1 0 s t wo r d) . MR. BREWER-All right. Okay. So then if we table this tonight, you have until the second to compile all the information, bring it to Jim, and then we'll have our meeting the 7th. MR. OBERMAYER-June 7th. - 34 - ; '-.. '--/ MR. BREWER-The seventh at seven, and I'm just going to take one more comment. MR. MARTINDALE-For sit certain size drawing? plan review, don't you have to have a MR. MACEWAN-No. MR. MARTINDALE-You don' ? MR. MACEWAN-No. MR. MARTINDALE-Don't yo have to have it on a big sheet of paper? We had to go through when we went through site plan review, had so many copies of a sc led drawing. MR. MARTIN-It's not so uch the size. It has to be to scale. MR. BREWER-This is to scale, Bob. There is a scale here. MR. MARTINDALE-We had t have a piece of paper this big, so people can see, and make it ea y, so everything's not just on there. The o the r t h i n g is, i f the co u 1 d pie a s e c h an get his w hit e to ma y be green or something like that, because white is going to reflect the sun, and that could com right in people's eyes as they're driving by. The same with the tain glass, the mirrors out there. That's going to blinding peopl . That happened right up on, where the Log Jam, not right on the orner, right where Dexter was, or whatever that. They had mirror out there. People turning, the sun would hit you right in the eye. The white awnings and stuff might reflect the sun, where if they had green, it would absorb it. MR. BREWER-Okay. Is t it? MR. MARTINDALE-That's It. MR. BREWER-All right. The public hearing's over now. anything else that we I issed from you guys? Is there ~ MR. OBERMAYER--No. t1 ink t ha t 's fine. MR. BREWER-All right. Have you got everything? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. SCHACHNER-Tim, jus so you know, I probably can-' t be here on Tuesday nigh t the sevel th. I assume it's not impor tant? MR. BREWER-It's no pro MR. OBERMAYER-No. after we get you? So ou' 11 meet wi th us on the seventh, then, MRS. SOLIMANTO-After I et this all done, could I have Mr O'Connor come in next time? MR. OBERMAYER-It's you call. I don't think it's necessary. It's up to you. MR. BREWER-I mean, if he's going to provide you with a gravel driveway and the parki g, I don't, as long as it's met to size, that's the only thing e wanted done. have to come. MR. OBERMAYER-No, Russ MR. BREWER-Okay. We n consent to table? Have we got it? MRS. SOLIMANTO-Yes. MR. BREWER-And, Jim, f the y get t his s t u f fin tot h em 0 nth e - 35 - "'--' "-./ second, you'll get it to us by Friday? you wit h the i n for ma ti 0 n by the s e con d . fifth. They' r e go i ng to come to You'll get it to us by the MR. MARTIN-I'll get it to you as soon as we've had a chance to look it over for all your conditions, and you'll have it as soon as we're done with that. MR. OBERMAYER-Rlght. MR. BREWER-Not the night of the meeting. MR. MARTIN-No, in advance, so you'll have time to look it over. MR. BREWER-Okay. We need a motion. MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 17-94 STEVEN SOLIMANTO, by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded Pall ng : Introduced by Robert So that modifications discussed at imp I emen t ed and so r ecor ded on the Planning Staff on June 2nd, 1994, for Board on June 7th. the May 26th meeting be new p I an s u bm i t t e d tot h e review, and to the Planning Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard SUBDIVISION NO. 4-1994 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE GUIDO PASSARELLI OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: HC-IA, RR-3A, WR-3A, LOCATION: RT. 9 & ROUND POND RD. PROPOSAL IS FOR A THREE LOT SUBDIVISION. PLANS ARE TO SELL ONE OF THE COMMERCIAL LOTS AND RETAIN OWNERSHIP OF THE REMAINDER. SEQRA REVIEW: 5/26/94 TAX MAP NO. 67-2-1 LOT SIZE: 69 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS TOM NACE;- REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. BREWER-Okay. Scott, do we have a couple of notes? MR. HARLICKER-Really what the notes that we have are engineering notes, and Bill MacNamara is here to address those. This is the first time I've seen the revised plans. So it looks like they're providing a 75 foot buffer, or planted buffer. BILL MACNAMARA MR. MACNAMARA-Good evening. Not reading everything word for word, but essentially most of the conmlents based around either the boundaries or the size of the acreages shown or some of the sediment and erosion control issues, and I'll touch on each point. The average distance between lot lines. I'm not sure how you calculate the average distance between lot lines in your Code, but 150 feet narrows down to 100 feet, average of that is less than 150 feet, just a note, as far as the lot size. The'boundaries of lot three, for the remaining lands of the subdivision, weren't clearly labelled, as far as adding up the total acreages, and when I say the total acreages, I was comparing it to the acres that are shown on the environmental report. I just couldn't add them all up together and get the same number. I'm not sure if I just wasn't looking at the right map. There was a manhole shown along the east side of Route 9. It just didn't have a label, function, designation, what kind of utility manhole it was for. Typically, when there's stormwater trenches and drywells included in site plans, there's some type of a calculation that shows the basis for - 36 -" '-......- J the sizing. That's pre ty standard on a site plan. Specific perc test information, groun water information is not shown. That goes to the first comment -bout sizing trenches and drywells. Next note, when there is adjo'ning property with utilities, you normally show how far away those utilities are from the lot line, so you can check to see if the utilities you're providing give you the right distances. These are all pretty basic, minor comments, by the way. The next note on the pi n, on the site plan, had indicated any area steeper than a three n one, we assumed that you meant three horizontal, one vertic I, any areas steeper than that would be brought to a three on 0 e or less, and it looked like those amounts of areas were more than would have been indicated on the plan, and whatever areas were goi g to be mowed, this is basically a safety note, four on one is a little closer to being safe than three on one is, f or s tan d a r d ow i n g p r act ice s , but t hat's rea II y mo r e geared toward the sedinl nt and erosion control measures on the last notes. Additional sediment control fence should be shown, and basically there's guide ines in the manual which reference, as far as, when you're dealin with slopes, there's a certain length of fence you can use for a ertain slope, and that was on fencing. As far as infiltration tr -¡ches that are shown along Route 9, during construction, you need to show some notes that'll say you'll prevent any sediment fr m getting into those trenches when they're being built, because t at's the most important time to keep the sediment out of them, 0 they'll work afterwards. Another note about sedimentation an erosion control has to do with straw bale dikes and the steepness of the trenches that were shown. That same manual for erosion and sediment control talks about possibly some alternative measures tlat may be more effective, and that simply lists a couple of them in that note. The same subsurface drains, typically twenty-four inches for cover, is looked for, where possible. As far as eseeding and mulching of the bare earth areas, and it looked Ii e the amount of excavation, there would be some pretty decent siz bare earth areas. Had some pretty decent slopes, simply listed time frame that's suggested for when you remulch, and the last 0 e there is the landscaping plan that looks like some of the wordin was left out on the site plan. That's it. MR. BREWER-Okay. We d have a letter from Glens Falls Urban Area Transportation Counsel. MR. MARTIN-Do you want that read into the record, Ti~? MR. BREWER-Would you please? MR. MARTIN--Yes. Th s is to Jim Martin, Regarding Guido Passarelli's subdivisiol and Oral Health Care Associates Site Plan US Route 9, Warren C unty, "Dear Jim: After reviewing the subdivision applicatio s from Guido Passarelli for the parcel at the corner of Route 9 a d Round Pond Road and the site plan for the Oral Health Care Associ tes for the smaller of the subdivided lots, I would like to make t e following comments: 1. This proposed subdivision and site d velopment of one of the lots is located on Route 9 between its in ersection with Route 254 and the Million Dollar Half Mile and as such is one of the more congested corridors in the Town of Queensb ry. The Town's Planning Board should be reviewing all applicat ons in this corridor as an opportunity to apply access management techniques. 2. I feel strongly that only one access from Route should be allowed for the entire parcel, and that the proposed two lots resulting from the subdivision should share this entra ceo A second access to both properties off Round Pond Road as fa from Route 9 as possible could also be allowed. The access fr m Route 9 could be developed now as either two 12 foot lanes or 12 foot lane entering and two 12 foot. lanes exiting the site Although the applicant for the proposed subdivision is not rea y to provide a site plan for the northern lot, he should be able 0 provide the Towl)'s Planning Board with a concept plan of access or the entire parcel. A plan provided now by the subdivider and pproved by the Town Planning Board would give a future develope a predictable response to work with when - 37 - '- '..-/ the site plan for the second lot is developed. 3. The proposed subdivision is located near the Warren County Bike Path. Any cOlm1ercial or professional development of this site should provide bike racks or lockers to encourage non-motorized traffic. These applications, together with my conunents, will be transferred \:0 Mark Kennedy, the NYSDOT Permit Engineer. He will be sending his comments to you separately. Thank you for the opportunity \:0 conunent on this proposed subdivision and site plan. I am available to answer questions. Please feel free to call. Sincerely, Joanna M. Brunso Staff Director" MR. BREWER-Okay. Did we receive a letter from DOT? MR . MAR TIN -- No, but I t a I ked toM ark Ken n e d y , and hew a sin concurrence with the comment about one access point. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. MARTIN-And we have the Warren County Department of Public Works. This is to Clark Wilkinson at Haanen Engineering. "Dear Mr. Wilkinson: The Warren County Department of Public Works reviewed the proposed drainage improvements on the above referred to project and below, listed, are the relevant comments: A. We' will require a profile of the existing ground and the proposed dry well system. B. We will also require one extra dry well in the existing low area on the south side of Round Pond Road. C. No drainage will be allowed to flow north of proposed dry well # 1 from the driveway entrance into the Oral Health Care Center. (We suggest you construct a berm north of proposed dry well #1 to keep the storm water from entering dry well ff 5). As soon as the above comments are addressed, please send us a revised print for our review. If you have any questions regarding the above, please advise. Very truly yours, Roger Gebo Dep. Superintendent" MR. BREWER-Okay. Mr. Nace. MR. NACE-·Okay. For the record, my name is Tom Nace of Haanen Engineer¡ng, representing Mr. Passarelli. I guess the first thing, start with engineering conm1ents. I-laving reviewed the connnents, I don't think there's anything there that, as we rework the plans a little bit to take care of some of the Board's concerns, that we can't easily take care of. I will beef up the erosion control a little bit. In general, the soils on site are not very erodible. They're sands, medium to fine sands. There's very little silt. So generally, with the permeability of the soils, if there is any steep slope erosion, that sediment falls out before the water travels very far, and all the water does stay on site. There's a little place down at the corner of Round Pond and Route 9 that has been a problem, even before this site was disturbed, and one of the things we're doing, in working with Roger Gebo, is to try to address that complete problem. So it's addressing the problems at our site that existed before our site was disturbed, and also addressing any additional runoff that our site being disturbed has added. I think, the other issue was the boundary of the lots. We are not aware that the 150 foot average distance was interpreted the way it is, and what we intend to do, as you see the front of the lot is chopped off so that the actual frontage width on the road is about 100 feet. What we will do is add a proportionate width to the back of the lot, so that it will make the average 150. So that will be modified and can easily be done'without affecting the usability of either lot. The other items are fairly minor items. I have no trouble meeting the requests of Bill, and I'll rev~ew those with him to make sure that they meet with him. The second item, major item, is the access to the site. Since we got this letter, we have spent considerable time at the drafting board trying to see how we can make single access work for the site. There's essentially two major problems. One is that Round Pond Road is separated from the site, from the usable portion of the site, by a fairly high bluff. The distance, if you come back far enough on Round Pond Road, to be ab I e to pu tin an en trance tha t - 38 - '-/~. ~ would safely clear cars away from the Route 9 intersection, you're faced with about a 50 foot rise that's very, very steep, and it would just be impossible to put it without totally clearing that whole hill away that's now the remaining buffer, wooded buffer, there. It would be impossible to bring a driveway in off of Round Pond Road. We have worked, there's an existing curb cut here that we've proposed to use for this lot, the smaller lot. We've worked to try to see if there is any way to be able to grade the site, so that we can use that as a single entrance for both sites. What happens is this site is, the whole thing is graded from, or the existing ground, is graded from Route 9 back, coming up, and is also, along Route 9, it's graded from Round Pond Road up to the top of the hill near Sutton's, or top of the rise near Sutton's. As . such, this site, to be usable, needs to be graded off, leveled off, a b 0 uti 0 fee t below the e xis tin g g r ad e b a c kin her e , to ma k e a building site, but it will still be about 15 feet above where this site will be graded off to. MR. BREWER -Okay. Can you s top one second. ma k e an en t ran c e fur the r nor t h , and run a road, right there, come in, and then build a then go up to service that. Essentially, thing. What if you were to road along the other road to the right, and it wou ld be the same MR. NACE-Well, the problem is, we went to, to get this building site leveled off, we've got to be back a ways from the road. If we're right out at the road, it's going to create a huge bank in back that I don't think anybody wants. So we've got, the building site is really back up on top, here, a little ways. To get to that, we could use this entrance, come along the frontage here, and then back up, but what's going to happen is tl1at this buffer that everybody seems to want to buffer the sites from Route 9. MR. BREWER-You couldn't make that inside the buffer, or not? MR. NACE-Well, take a road that's 24 foot width, plus a little extra, you don't want the trees right up to the end of the road. So you're probably 35 feet, clear, and we have now agreed to a 75 foot buffer that's going to eat up most of it, better than half, or just half, I guess. MR. RUEL-Maybe we could allow a 50 foot buffer in that area, and have the road on the other side. MR. NACE-We're certainly willing to work to try to attain that, okay. I'm just, from the grading that we've tried to do so far, it looks, I guess if we could compromise a little bit o~ this buffer up here, we might be able to work it. MR. BREWER-To compromise the buffer where the road would be going to that second lot, I'll call it. MR. NACE-What we would do is bring the main entrance in here, okay, and whatever's put in here will probably be set batk fairly far with parking up front. So we'd take a ring road, in essence, off of that parking, and bring that ring road on up to access tills site, but it will cut into that buffer up on the higher portion of the site. MR. RUEL-Your original buffer was, what, 50 feet, right? MR. NACE-Original buffer we had proposed was 50. After hearing some of the comments, we've come back and said, we'll go ahead and, for the time being, at least plant that 75 foot buffer. MR. MARTIN-Well, just to get the correct terminology, here, now, that's a setback along the front, no~ a buffer. MR. NACE-The 50 foot is a setback. We have, to accommodate your concerns about the openness of the site, we've agreed that that is - 39 -- '''"--' ---" going to be planted as at least a temporary buffer from the open portion of the site, and I don't want to say buffer from the developed site, because we're going to come back sometime with a site plan for that. MR. MAR TIN - I jus t wan t setback along the front to ma k e sur e , you k now, it' s a there, as the Code requirement. 75 foot MR. RUEL-You're not talking about a buffer with trees, etc. MR. BREWER-We asked for that. MR. MARTIN-That's not a requirement. for, given the conditions that are just saying, the Code requirement buffer. That may be something you ask present there today, but I'm is a 75 foot setback, not a MR. NACE-Fifty foot setback, Jim. Right? MR. MARTIN-Seventy-five foot on a highway corridor. MR. NACE-Yes, you're right. You're right. MR. RUEL-And then I :think the road owns are, what, 12 feet there, so there would be 87 feet. MR. NACE-There's about 12 feet from the curb line to the property line. MR. RUEL-::,Yes. It could be 87 feet back from the road. MR. BREWER-But if we reduced the, so to speak, from, I don't know the amount of feet, from where that drIveway would be, going to the right, to get to that sIte. If we reduced the proposed buffer from 75 to 50 feet, then it would still keep that within that 75 foot are a . The are ago i n g nor t h, the y w 0 u 1 d con tin u e to ma i n t a i nth e 7 5 foot buffer. MR. RUEL-Yes. That's what 1 recommend there. MR. BREWER-If that's workable. MR. NACE-Yes. I will try to work the grading out and see If that works. I can't promise you it will. I don't know. MR. RUEL-So now you'd have one access road for three lots. MR. NACE-For two lots. What we're really doing in the subdivision, this is zoned, the whole back portion is zoned RR-3A, okay. This up front is zoned Highway Commercial One Acre, okay. We're trying separate off the resIdential, and also create the two lots up here for Highway COlmnercial. MR. BREWER-Yes. There's WR-3 in there, too, Tom. MR. NACE-That's back, yes. This whole parcel bends back around and includes the area back around Round Pond. MR. RUEL-Looking at the plans, I saw the grading and drainage map in here. We really need a new contour, drainage, and grading, because that, apparently, represents what's there now, not what the future will have. MR. NACE-Well, that, yes, okay. That represents what was there, and our initial understanding of what people wanted to see was some of the steep slopes knocked down, but the rest of the site pretty much remaining as is. After we've had a chance to talk with people and get some input, we've recognized that you really wanted to see the site graded off a little better, overall, to really flatten out some of the slopes, get more toward what the final grading will be, - 40 -- I -..,,/ '-' . when the site's developed, and then we can treat this, what we're doing on the site as a little more permanent. I have, I haven't submitted it to you, obviously, because it's new information, but I have worked out a grading sketch which, this is new, okay, and I just show it to you for your information, not for your review, that what we're doing is. MR. RUEL-You have the old one in the background. MR. NACE-The old's in the background, okay. What we re doing is filling in thÍs area that's down in here, up to the point where it's almost level with, lets say, two thirds of the way up this slope over here. MR. RUEL-Did you say this was about 50 feet off of that road? MR. NACE-This is, if you come up here to the top, feet down to Round Pond Road. That's all wooded, don't want to disturb that. it's abou t 50 and we really MR. RUEL-And then this is the grading here? MR. NACE-Yes. This is what I'm talking about. This site is going to be graded off up here, still about 10 or 12 feet above Route 9. MR. RUEL-But level with this property? MR. NACE-Down a little from this property. It's actually down from this property, where you can see the bank in here. It's about six feet, six or eight feet down. MR. RUEL-What's over here, a motel? MR. NACE-That's the motel, and there's an office up front, yes. MR. RUEL-Now the access would be somewhere around here? MR. NACE-Right here. MR. RUEL-Here, and you could go around this way? MR. NACE-Well, that's what we'd have to work out. See, in this grading plan, I tried to provide a little buffer, a little berm in here, that would hide from traffic coming down Route 9, would tend to create an additional, beyond landscaping, create an additional buffer for whatever is done in here. That, obviously. we'd have to c omp rom i s e , be c a use tog e t up tot his sit e , I' ve got to, now, figure out some way to get my road back up througll here. MR. MACEWAN-Why couldn't you just come right around this way, and right up that way? MR. NACE-Because of the slope. That's real steep. okay. I've got to use as much, this is, well, here's 440. This site> 460. This is 20 feet above this. MR. BREWER-I'm talking about down here. You come into here, it's only, what, I'm talking the grade from here to here. MR. NACE-Yes, this is only about two or fpur feet. MR. BREWER-So you're talking six feet, maximum, to cut in there. MR. NACE-Right. Yes, what I would do is bring the access in here, and then if I could come along this frontage with still some buffer, but not the 75 feet. Then I've got a lot in length. I can't guarantee you I can make the grading work with one curb cut. I can try. I've talked to Herb Steffens at length. He doesn't see a problem with two curb cuts. Now, I don't know how it's going to fallout between Herb Steffens and Mark Kennedy. I've worked with - 41 - ~ --- Mark before. I-Ie's fairly reasonable. If I can't make the grading work, I'm fairly confident I can sit down with Mark and show him it won't work, and he'll give us two curb cuts. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. NACE-I don't have anything in writing. I can't guarantee you that, but that's my previous experience with Mark. MR. STARK-I'm kind of in favor of two curb cuts, and the reason why is, with the grade there, going up to the dentist's office, that would look better just grass and so 011. You're going to have two separate lots, one here for the dentist office, one for the other commercial development. I look at Sutton's, okay, can you picture Sutton's, and this has more road frontage, with one entrance and one ex it? I mean, you know, peop Ie wou 1 d be r unn i ng over each other, inside the parking lot. I look at Martha's Ice Cream. Can you picture Martha's Ice Cream, with a lot less road frontage, with only one entrance? If you look at Agway, across the street from Sutton's, it's got 150 feet of road frontage, and half of that is entrance and exits. MR. BREWER-I can understand that point, but on the other hand, . you're talking about a dentist office, potentially, going to be there, and that's not going to have any kind of traffic like Sutton's: I don't think you can compare a dentist office to Sutton's or Martha's, by any means comparing them. MR. STARK-I think you're missing my point. MR. BREWER-I understand exactly what you're saying, but to compare a dentist's office to Martha's is absurd. MR. STARK-No, no. I'm not comparing it. I'm saying it would be better with two curb cuts, not one. You want one so the guys can go into one curb cut halfway down the hill, and then come up to the dentist's office, okay. You're not talking, how many people go to the dentist's office a day, twenty, thirty? MR. BREWER-Maybe. That's what I'm saying. If you had a curb cut down here, it would be less curb cuts. Less chance for in and out traffic on Route 9. The dentist's office people can come in down here, go up to the dentist's office. Then if there's another attraction, or whatever, he's going to put down in the other part of it, that entrance wi 11 substantially take care of that one thing. MR. STARK-Well, you know yourself, the dentist office is going to sit up here, and the other grade is going to be down here. It's going to be a steep going up. Tomny said he might make it work. I think it's going to cut into that setback requirement. Right? MR. RUEL-George, he already agreed on one, right? MR. BREWER-He said he would try to make it work. He didn't say he agreed. MR. MARTIN-Just to give the Board, it's clearly the Staff's position that there be one curb cut, for whatever that's worth. MR. RUEL-You'd like to see one, wouldn't you, from a safety standpoint. MR. MACEWAN-That's worth a lot. MR. MARTIN-I think that's an overriding consideration here. Barring any physical reason that you can't do that, Staff's position is it should be one curb cut. MR. MACEWAN-I think what we also have to understand here, too, is - 42 - ;1' , ' "--- -....-/ the comparisons that you're making for those other businesses along that road, are already existing businesses that have been there for years. If they were in the same scenario here, coming in front of us for this subdivision or site plan, I think it would be fair to say that they would be asked to have one curb cut as well. MR. MARTIN-I just got today, and the Board will be seeing it, the access management section for the Route 9/254 Transportation Plan. It's just been done. It came over the fax machine today. It said in that sectio~, it was written by DOT, that you can achieve up to 30 percent reduction 'in capacity problems on roads with wise access management. MR. OBERMAYER-Well, I think before we sit here and debate all this, we have to see whether it's going to work or not. MR. BREWER-Okay. I agree with that. MR. NACE-Yes. That's one issue. Safety, let me just address a couple of things you've said here and thrown out. Safety, as far as access from the curb cuts proposed, if we get two, I think it's not that much of an issue, because you've got your large parcel that will probably be somewhat more of a high traffic generator. I don't know what's going to be there yet for sure, but chances are that it could be a much higher traffic generator. The dentist's office is a fairly low traffic generator. I do, however, have to agree strongly with George I have a much better chance of making some good buffers work, grading wise, if I could have two entrances. I don't have a circulation road out close that I've got to worry about buffering, or try to buffer, and I have a chance to, where you're driving down the hill, looking off to your right, and the lands falling away, but you've got the land rising back to your right, I have a chance to put a fairly good mound in there, to sort of help hide whatever is put on the larger parcel, to help buffer that. MR. RUEL-Tom, you're going to cover that ditch, right, with a pipe? MR. NACE-That ditch will have a we have addressed, in sketch That'll all be graded right out There'll be a very shallow soil pipe. We're working to, in fact, form, all of Roger's comments. to the road. There'll be inlets. just behind the curb line. MR. RUEL-Right, and you're going to have drywells all the way down. MR. NACE-That's correct. MR. RUEL--Now, the drywells will be able to absorb any amount of water coming down, so there'll be no water going around Round Pond? MR. NACE-The drywells are, at this point, so far over designed, we've ended up, in order to meet some of the criteria that Roger had, as far as grade of perforated pipe and trench, we ended up with seven drywells in there, which will take ten times the amount of. MR. RUEL-Another question. Is that pipe on your property? MR. NACE-That pipe will actually, yes. sketch there. think it shows on the '" MR. RUEL-On here? MR. NACE-Yes. entirety of it The pipe is is now on our right, you property. can see it here. The MR. RUEL-It's right on the edge, then? MR. NACE-That's correct. - 43 - ---- "- -./ MR. RUEL-Yes. Okay. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Okay. Can we move on? MR. PALING-I've got just one more question. If you were allowed two curb cuts, would you have access between the dentist's office and the rest of this development? MR. NACE-No. MR. MACEWAN-Does the owner plan on retaining both parcels, or is he selling one? MR. NACE--No. I believe the dentist's office will be sold, parcel will be sold. MR. BREWER-I think that's the object of a subdivision. Okay. MR. MARTIN-I just want to remind the Board, I'm sure you're aware, but I want to have it said on the record, that your first and foremost consideration really has to be the waiver request on the five year restriction, in order for you to proceed further. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. NACE-Can I just do one more thing, here? One of the other things you requested is to beef up the landscaping a little, and, again, I'm submitting this just for your information, and not for review. MR. OBERMAYER-I think it would be a lot more attractive a site if you did have two accesses, instead of having a road come up, along here, parallel to Route 9. I mean, I've got to believe that~ and leave the buffers. MR . STARK - It' s no l go i n g t 0 bet hat III u c h s a fer . office gets thirty, forty cars a day. The dentist's MR. OBERMAYER-The dentist's office is not going to be a high traffic area, and actually the traffic area is going to be two different times, two different time periods. This will be during the day, and this will be at night. MR. BREWER--We don't know tha t. Nothing is for sure. there's no plan in front of us for anything here. So you plan for, who knows. That may be a K-Mart, or Wal-Mart. they'll want to stay with the dentist. I mean, you don't I mean, have to Maybe know. MR. OBERMAYER-Then why are we even talking about it? MR. BREWER-Because we have, because in our comprehensive planning. Even in our Ordinance, it says to consider connections of driveways, and that's what we're doing. MR. NACE-If it's practical. Here you've got two separate and opposing criteria that you're trying to address, and one is buffering the site, and the other is access. I will, when I come in here, I can guarantee you that because, we have a driveway that climbs pretty rapidly here, and then I've got to make up an additional 10 feet down there, 10 or, when I get down to here, probably 14 or 15 feet. So I've got to make up that additional 15 feet, and the only way to do it is up front here where I've got the length to do it. MR. STARK-You're going to need a Land Rover to get in to the dentist's office. MR. BREWER-If you come in straight, here, you're going to have to go up the same slope. - 44 - ./ .,---, '.......'/ MR. STARK-No, no. You won't have that (lost word). MR. NACE-Now I've got the slope from here down to here, which is another 15 foot of elevation. I can work up the plans and show you what, if it's possible, and what it means, if it's possible, okay, but my gut feeling is that a lot of this is going to be lost. MR. BREWER-How many trees do you have in here? MR. NACE-We have now 30 spade transplanted trees, okay. MR. BREWER-Caliper? MR. NACE-Three to eight inches. We've got 62 Eastern White Pine, of different calipers, or different size. We've got eight surface berries, and a couple of nursery, two nursery ten oak, and two nursery maple. MR. STARK-He's got a lot of trees there. MR. BREWER-So we went from 54 trees to 105. Okay. We can listen to public comment before we decide on whether to grant the waiver or not, right? MR. MAR TIN .- Yes . MR. BREWER- I guess we'll open public hearing is open. Does project? the public comment period. anybody wish to comment on The this PUBLIC HEARING OPENED JOHN LEMERY MR. LEMERY-My name is John Lemery. 1'm an attorney in Glens Falls, and I'm here on behalf of The Great Escape, and Charles R. Wood. We wanted to go on record, make it clear to the Planning Board that whatever development might end up on this site, obviously, comes after the development of The Creat Escape Theme Park, and so we wanted to make it clear that whatever plans are developed here, and whatever uses they are going to put this site to, if and when they get a right to develop it, or subdivide it, Mr. Wood wanted the Planning Board to be aware that The Great Escape may come in for further development, at some point. There is additional acreage there that may be developed, and so whatever traffic impacts you look at on Round Pond Road, we want you to be mindful of the fact that The Great Escape is there. There's additional acreage to be de vel 0 p e d . The roll e r co a s t e r i s go i n g on 1 i n e . The r e mB y be additional traffic in the area. We don't want to come in here, at some point in the future, and ask for the further development of The Creat Escape Theme Park, with additional parking at the Bavarian Palace or other areas, and tllen find that there's a huge traffic problem because of what may develop at the site. So we want you to be mindful of the fact that whatever you do at the site, and whatever you do with traffic on Round Pond koad, or curb cuts on Route 9, if you recall at the time The Great Escape was attempting to site the roller coaster, there was a lot of concern about traffic impacts on Route 9. MR. BREWER-As I recall, your traffic study said, what, there wasn't a problem on Route 9? MR. LEMERY-We don't think there's a traffic impact, but we want you to be mindful that there could be a traffic impact at some point on Round Pond Road, or at least at that Tee intersection. So we just don't want to have to be in a position, later, when the Park comes back here with respect to further development, having to say, well, we're going to turn down any further development because of problems that have been created as a result of the development of this parcel. The other reason I'm here is that, we told our - 45 "--' '- -./ client, Charles Wood, that if he clear cutted his parcel of land on Aviation Road that he couldn't develop it for five years, and so he was mindful of that, and even though the project that he proposed for that site didn't get permitted, that site has not been clear cut because he is mindful of the Town regulations and assumes that the Town will abide by those regulations. I'm reminded of the young man who shoots his mother and father, and then he's brought into the courthouse and he's standing before the Judge, and the Judge says, well, your honor, I'd like you to have mercy on me because I'm an orphan. If the rationale is going to be, once a site is clear cut, now we're in a position that we have to do something and allow the development of that site, and waive the clear cutting regulation because it looks unsightly, then what you're doing is you're saying, go ahead and clear cut a parcel of land, without regard to the implications of our Town laws, ordinances, rules and regulations, and then because it looks so bad, we need to come in and clean it up and do something with it. So we'll permit you to develop it. One of the problems in this Town has been consistency of approaches and consistency of treatment of different projects that have come before the Board. So, we just wanted to know, that if you were going to waive the clear cutting requirement, here, that presumably will stand for others who want to clear cut their land, and then come in for subdivision approval, and I was asked to make that point to you. So I hopè that in your deliberations, here, you'll consider both the impacts for other parcels in the Town, with respect to this one, and that particularly you would be mindful of The Great Escape Theme Park, and the development of this site, and the fact that The Great Escape Theme Park is not yet completed, in terms of its future development. There is additional acreage there that will be developed. We may be coming back to you in the future, and we don't want to be impacted by whatever happens at this site. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Thank you. COIl1ffien t? I s there anyone else that would I ike to MARIANNE MCDONOUGH MRS. MCDONOUGH-My name is Marianne McDonough. I reside at 28 Twicwood Lane. I'm the co-owner of the GreyCourt Motel. My husband's law offices are right next door to Mr. Passarelli's property. As an adjacent landowner, I would request the Planning Board to give every consideration to Mr. Passarelli's proposal to construct a dental office, which, as I understand it, will be attractively designed and landscaped. This land in it's present state is a detraction and an eyesore to the surrounding properties, as well as the Town of Queensbury. I can appreciate the objections to cutting trees, but the damage has been done. I don't think you should let the objections become part of the problem. I think it's the Planning Board's duty to remedy the situation, and to move forward on this project. We live there. We have a business there and a law office there, and it looks unsightly, and to hold this up for five years, doesn't make sense. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Thank you. comment? Is there anyone else who would care to MR. LEMERY-You have another remedy, I presume, rather than allowing for the development, ask them to re-foliate the· property, and put it back in the position that it was in, before coming back to this Board and asking for a subdivision. That, then, requires everyone to be treated fairly. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Okay. Is there anyone else? MR. MARTIN-Tim, we do have one letter that was just passed out to the Board. Do you want me to read it in? MR. BREWER-Yes, please. - 46 - '----' "-.",./. MR. MARTIN~"Dear Queensbury Town Planning Board Members: Due to a previous commitment we are unable to attend the public"hearing this evening regarding subdivision of the Passarelli property. We strongly believe that all Town Committees, landowners and residents have a responsibility to adhere to town laws, ordinances, policies etc. and not attempt to circumvent them for financial gain. If Mr. Passarelli indeed wanted to subdivide his property we believe that with proper presentation of plans it could have been accomplished prior to his strip clearing it. It is our understanding that once a lot has been.strip cleared, as this property has, there is a five year waiting period before one can apply for a permit to subdivide. We feel strongly that Mr. Passarelli must be held to the rules. If he had applied prior to clearing, the town committees might have placed some restrictions or stipulations about where and what clearing could be done. It seems that Mr. Passarelli wanted to avoid any such restrictions so he cleared his property (his right) and now wants a variance to subdivide, thus circumventing the Planning Board and other Conunittees ability to provide subdivision while keeping a positive visual quality to the property. The Town has backed down before. It is our understanding that the RV sales business on Route 9 had to keep trees up as part of their agreement to locate there. After establishing the business they cut down the trees in violation of their agreement and the Town has never done anything. If you allow one person to strip clear property to avoid restrictions and stipulations then give him/her a variance to subdivide then you place yourselves in a position where you have to treat everyone in a similar manner. Why have rules and policies to protect and enhance our community and ignore them? Mr. Passarelli is not new to the area. He has been a landowner an businessman in the area for many years. He must be aware of the many, many hours town planners have spent developing laws, policies and guidelines to allow growth in our community and at the same time protect and preserve the beauty of our area. If Mr. Passarell i claims a hardship he has created his own. Had he followed the accepted path he would most likely already have his subdivision and the town would not have the eyesore that sits at Route 9 and Round Pond Road now. We feel strongly that the Town of Queensbury elected and appointed Officials owes it to all residents and landowners to follow the rules and keep control over a managed aesthetically positive growth of our community. C.R. Coughlin, III Martha I-I. Coughlin Residents and homeowners in the Town of Queensbury for 29 years" And I will look into the restriction on the RV sales. That's the first I've heard of it today. I'll look into that and see if that was a violation. MR. BREWER-Okay. Tom, would you care to comment again? MR. NACE-Do you want to close the public hearing? MR. BREWER-Is there anyone else who would like to comment? MR. NACE-I'll be glad to address the issues. Clear cutting seems to be the prominent issue. I think Jim will hold me out and put all this in perspective. Mr. Passarelli came to the Town Planning Department before he did the clearing, said that eventually he wanted to develop the piece of property, the conmlercial portion of the property, didn't know exactly what he wanted to do with it, yet, but he had time and materials available to do some grading that he knew would eventually be required, and ask the Planning Department, ask Jim if there were permits required. At that time, he had no intention of subdividing, and he decided to go ahead and clear it, and right, wrong, or indifferent, that's where we are today. I think, from an overall town perspective, the clear cutting reg, as it stands in the Subdivision section of your Ordinance is a very unclear objective as to what it's trying to do. The Town needs and should implement, I think, I strongly think, an overall clear cutting regulation that applies to all lands, under some sort of a permit process, so that this type of situation doesn't occur. Quite frankly, it was my personal opinion, after having dealt with the Town reg's for half a dozen years, that the - 47 - './ --' issue with the clear cutting under the Subdivision Regulations was s p e c i f i call y aim e d a t h a v i n gad eve lop e r com e i n f q r are sid e n t i a I development, having already cleared out the roads, and said, well, I've already cleared the road. It has to go there. Therefore, you better approve it there. I think that there needs to be a regulation for cLear cutting. I think it's an issue that needs to be dealt with. Right now, I think the Town has a piece of property they need to deal with. Whether the clearing of it was, as I said before, right, wrong or indifferent, I think that moving ahead and dealing with it the way we're dealing with it now is probably the most effective way of remedying the existing situation. MR. BREWER-Okay. Anyone else? MR. LEMERY-What he is suggesting is that you remedy the existing situation, which was caused by violating the Ordinance, by allowing the subdivision. MR. BREWER-Now, lets back up. the subdIvision regulations. It's not in the Ordinance. It's in MR. LEMERY-Subdivision Reg's. Well, if you've cleared the property, in order to subdivide that property and utilize it now, . you'd have to waive the regulation. If someone wants to change the regulation, they should go to the legislative body, and ask for the regulation to be changed, and that it poses a problem with the way the ex i s tin g reg u I a t ion i sse t for t h . I t hi n k you ma k e a v e r y , very bad decision to say to someone, go ahead and violate the regulations, then come in, and because it looks so bad, we'll let you fix it. If those are the rules, fine. Then everybody gets the right to play by those rules, but those aren't the rules that you promulgated, and you'd be making a mistake to do otherwise. MR. BREWER-So what you're suggesting is. MR. LEMERY-I'm suggesting that you tell this gentleman that he should re-foliate his property, put plantings back so that it is not the eyesore that it is, and that simply because it's an eyesore is not grounds for waiving the regulations. Otherwise, you send a message to everybody in town, go ahead, clear cut. As bad as it look, the worse it gets, the worse it looks, the be t ter you are, because when it looks so bad that the town can't take it, the town will allow you to subdivide. I mean, that's the message you're getting at. MR. BREWER-On the other hand, though, for a site plan for that dentist's subdivision or not. He can still come dentist's office. John, he can still come in of f i ce, whether he has a in for the site plan for the MR. LEMERY-If someone's asking for a waiver, I think you're setting a bad precedent. MR. BREWER-I understand exactly what you re saying. I've thought about it for a long time, every since we got the plans, and I was kind of upset when we got the plan, and I came into the office and I said, they can't do this, because of the subdivision regulation, and I talked to Jim about it, and we talked a little while, and you can look at it two ways. You can look and say, well, he broke the regulation, so we should look at that thing for five years. Okay. No trees are going to grow back in five years. We all know that. Or you can look at it to the aspect that, we can let him subdivide it, provided he does this, he puts that 75 foot buffer in. I mean, you're going to punish him by not letting him do it, and punish the whole town by having everybody look at it. Okay. That's just illY. opinion, and on the other hand, the Town is working on it, a clear cutting law, right as we speak. I don't condone him going in there and cutting it. I think it's the ugliest in Town. I told Mr. Passarelli that. I'm not afraid to tell him that, because that's what I think. - 48 - ~ ~ '-....- MR. LEMERY-Ugly then works, because then if it's ugly enough, come in, and we'll fix it. MR. BREWER--Well, yes, but, John, I think rules were made to be changed. I mean, I don't think every rule that's in this Ordinance is right. MR. LEMERY-I'm not suggesting that at all. MR. BREWER-So ·we shouldn't change some? some. think we should change MR. LEMERY-Yes, maybe you should, but you don't change it after someone violates it, and the reason that you change it is because it's so bad that it has to be fixed becau~e now someone's creating an eyesore in the community. MR. BREWER-I mean, you can look at it and fight the point forever. I mean, we can sit here until midnight tonight and fight th"" point, but I just think. MR. LEMERY-I'm not here to fight it. I just want to know what the rules are, so then can advise my clients. MR. BREWER-He can go clear cut it tomorrow, if he wants. MR . L EM E R Y -- I'm not s u g g est i n g t hat t hat's any t h i n g t hat C h a rl e s Wood would do. He wouldn't do it, because he wouldn't treat the Tow nth a t way, but the r e ma y be 0 the r s who w 0 u I d do it, and s 0 therefore you've got four or five sites allover the town that look awful. I can see that you're inclined to do so. So, thank you for your time. MR. BREWER-Well, not necessarily. I agree with you on one hand, and not the other, but that's just my opinion. MRS. MCDONOUGH-Marianne McDonough. The question I have is. If Mr. Passarelli went to the Planning Department and asked if he could clear cut, they're now penalizing him for something that he was granted permission to do. They're actually accusing him of doing something devious, which mayor may not be the case. If he wanted to sell the property, and to clear cut it, brought in a seller, or purchaser, and now he wants to subdivide and is being told, he did this under. MR. BREWER--I think Mr. Passarelli was aware of the regulation a1 the time he went in and cut it. MRS. MCDONOUGH-That you couldn't clear cut? Well, why wasn't he told that? MR. BREWER-I think he was. MRS. MCDONOUGH-He was told he couldn't clear cut? MR. MARTIN-He was told about the five year restriction. MR. BREWER-I don't think anybody can tell him that he can't ¿Lear cut. There's not a law that says you can't clear cut. MR. MARTIN-He came to my office in November and asked if there was a permit required to do so. I looked thoroughly and could not find any. The only thing I found was the five year restriction. At that time, I said, Guido, there's no permit required. However, there is a five year restriction on subdivision, should you want to subdivide this after clear cutting. MRS. MCDONOUGH-So if he didn't subdivide this, he could do whatever he wanted now on this clear cut land? - 49- '- -, ..,.-; MR. MARTIN-Yes. He could come in with a site plan for this parcel, without a subdivision, and that site plan would be considered. MRS. MCDONOUGH-Okay. That answers my question. MR. BREWER-Okay. Sir, you had something? GEORGE GORE MR. GORE-Yes. Good evening. My name is George Gore. I 'm a resident of the Town of Queensbury. I noted that Mr. Lemery stated that the site was unsightly. Yet, I heard the adjacent landowner mention that it was unsightly before, and it looks much better now than it couLd ever be, in addition to the plans that we see here that Mr. Passarelli's going to undertake. It's certainly going to improve that property from even what the next door neighbors think. So, as far as it being unsightly, at this point in time, I guess it's a matter of opinion. It also seems to me that there has been an implied indication that Mr. Passarelli underhandedly undertook this clear cutting and then is trying to circumvent the law. I, personally, don't see that. It sounded, to me, that Mr. Passarelli clear cut with specific plans on owning the property singularly, and was approached subsequently by this dentist, whoever that may be, for a subdivision, and is asking for this Board's approval on that. That's the way I perceived it. Thank you for your time. MR. BREWER-Thank you. MR. STARK-Tim, Mr. Passarelli clear cut before the dentist got the money to bail out of the lease. I mean, he didn't have that in mind before he did it. MR. BREWER-No. I think that's the case. MR. MACEWAN-Why don't you get him up here and have him explain why he did it? MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-That would be an excellent idea. MR. BREWER-Would you care to give us an explanation, Mr. Passarelli, why you cut the land? I mean, everybody's hearing, back and forth. Lets here it right from the horse's mouth. GUIDO PASSARELLI MR. PASSARELLI-My name is Guido Passarelli. I never intended to subdivide the property. I wanted to build it as one parcel. After the property is cleared, the dentist comes along and wants to buy a piece of the property. So I ask permission to subdivide the property. That's the only reason. MR. BREWER-Okay. You had intentions of developing it yourself? MR. PASSARELLI-Yes. MR. BREWER-Okay. Any questions from anybody? Okay. Now we have to decide. Shall we or shan't we? Is there anyone else who'd like to comment? LEON STEVES MR. STEVES-I don't know whether to say it or not. By the way, my name is L~on Steves, for the record. If a plan was brought before you, with the raw land, as it was existing two years ago, a grading plan would bring it back, pretty much, to what it is today. So it isn't what we're talking about, the intent is, I guess the basis of what we're talking about, not what would happen to the property. It's going to be cleared. It would have to be cleared. Any ... - 50 - " '-/' '--... grading plan would necessitate that. land. Thank you. It isn't a flat parcel of MR. BREWER-Thank you. Okay. One last time, anybody? PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. BREWER-Now it's up to us. We can either make a motion to grant the waiver, or deny the waiver. MR. RUEL-Did you want to make it part of motion? the mo t ion, overall . MR. BREWER--No. MR. STARK-No. MR. BREWER-Two separate issues. MR. RUEL-All right. MR. BREWER-Is everybody happy with the buffer, 75 feet? MR . MART I N - Well, I t h ink you co u 1 d , i f yo u wan t to do i t as two separate issues, Tim, then you would consider that under your subdivision consideration. MR. BREWER-Is everybody happy with the amount of trees? We have to take everything into consideration, what we're going to do. MR. MACEWAN-No you don't. You grant the waiver or you don't grant the waiver. MR. BREWER-I would like to make a condition, if we grant the waiver, make a condition that specifically that amount, or more or less trees be planted. MR. RUEL-Yes. The type and size, etc. MR. MACEWAN-Tie that subdivision. in with Preliminary approval on the MR. OBERMAYER-Or with the waiver, even. MR. BREWER-With the waiver. MR. MARTIN-Yes. You could do it with the waiver. Yes. MR. OBERMAYER-If we waive it, this is what they've got to do. MR. RUEL-There are two waivers, right? MR. NACE-Yes. MR. BREWER-What was the other one? MR. NACE-Schematic, or sketch plan. MR . MAR TIN - S k e t c h P I an ph a s e , the fir s t 0 f the t h r e est e p s . We have a two lot subdivision before us. The Board typically waives the Sketch Plan phase. MR. PALING-I guess I'm getting a little bit more specific. We've got to clarify the single versus double access. MR. BREWER-In the subdivision. MR. OBERMAYER-That's in the subdivision. MR. PALING-Yes. Okay. - 51 -- ~ .,/ '--- MR. MACEWAN-For my opinion, I would rather do the waiver separately, and individually, if it gets approved or if it gets denied, because in my mind, I don't want to tie it into any plantings that are existing on the subdivision, because you're tying them in to a potential approval, if it is approved, and in my mind, I don't think he's got enough there to satisfy me for plantings to restore the site. MR. BREWER-What would satisfy you? MR. MACEWAN-More. MR. BREWER-How many more? MR. MACEWAN-I'd have to give that some thought. MR. NACE-May I suggest that in your waiver you at least reference the steps that are being taken to mitigate clear cutting. MR. OBERMAYER-Why do you want more trees, Craig? MR. MACEWAN-Because I think what his plans are right now, for the kinds of trees that he's going to put there, and the size of the trees, and the way that that lot is situated, you're still going to see a good portion of bare spots on that lot. I think he needs to go higher up the hill. MR. BREWER-What do you mean, higher up the hill? MR. MACEWAN-Because the slope of that property and the elevation of that property, even with the size trees that he's going to plant there, you'11 still see a good portion of bare spots on that property. It won't buffer it from the road. MR. NACE-Those trees that are being transplanted are from a mature forest. MR. MACEWAN-How many of them, though? I mean, you're talking a lot of new ones, too. MR. OBERMAYER-Sixty something. MR. NACE-Thirty of them are three to eight inch caliper. Okay. MR. MACEWAN-Which is what in height? MR. NACE-Three inch caliper is about 20 feet in height. MR. MARTIN-I've just got one other suggestion, before you get too, I know we don't usually do this, but in this particular instance, I'd like to have it, if the trees die, that they be replaced, especially given the fact, I know we're dealing with transplanting, and that's great. I mean, we're getting a little bit more maturity there, but in this particular instance, I would like to see. MR. RUEL-Which way do you want to go, here? MR. BREWER-MY preference would be, if we're going to grant the waiver or deny the waiver, to do that first. MR. RUEL-Yes. Okay. MR. BREWER-If someone makes a motion to approve, I would make the motion to approve with conditions. MR. RUEL-All the conditions that were mentioned this evening? ~ MR. BREWER-Specifically. MR. RUEL-One access point, buffer zones. - 52 - "- L- ., -..../ MR. BREWER-That would be the subdivision, Roger. Specifically, for the waiver, I would say, the buffer. MR. RUEL-Yes, 75 foot buffer, with 100 or more trees, the type and the size. MR. BREWER-The amount of trees. MR. RUEL-Ri gh t . Meet all engineering comments? MR. BREWER-No. That would be for the subdivision. MR. RUEL-Okay. MR. BREWER-I guess we should throw in something about, if the trees were to die, they would have to be. - MR. RUEL-How do you word dying trees? MR. OBERMAYER-No. This buffer is just a temporary buffer until you bring in your site plan for your subdivision. MR. BREWER-No. Permanent. MR. NACE-This is permanent. This is a buffer to mitigate the way the site looks now. Okay. MR. NACE-When we come in with a site plan, then that site plan is up for your approval, and I would hope that, at that point, you would consider what your zoning regulations are, and I don't know whether the 75 feet works in every little piece of the site or not. Okay. There may be some place where you might want to reduce it down to 65 feet. MR. BREWER-No, I won't go for that. I'm sorry. If I was to even vote yes on this, I would say that that buffer is going to be permanent. If you haven't got, can't go back, how deep is that property, Tom? MR. NACE-If you want us to go back 75 feet, what about your circulation road, if we end up with a single entrance? MR. BREWER-That can vary. MR. OBERMAYER-To me, I'd rather see two exits, really. MR. NACE-I'm simply trying to point out, what's the difference between violating that? MR. BREWER-I don't want to see a development come in here, and then have all those trees taken out of there. MR. NACE-Well, at that point, you have the right to reject that plan. You have the total right to reject that plan. MR. BREWER-You're right. Okay. MR. NACE-All I'm saying is, keep an open mind, at that point. MR. BREWER-Boy, I'd like to see them stay there. MR. NACE-And we probably will. I'm just saying, without knowing exactly what's going to go on the site. MR. BREWER-If I have my way, you will. MR. MACEWAN-There was a comment that was made during our site visit last night that these trees, for the most part, weren't going to be able to be planted until the final grading was all done and the site plan was established. - 53 -- " "-- ~ MR. NACE-No. .., MR. OBERMAYER-Until the grading was done. That was mentioned. MR. NACE-Yes. We were going to do the grading. The grading will be part of the. MR. BREWER-You have to do the grading before you put the trees in. There's no question about that. MR. RUEL-Tim, can we ask for a landscape plan on the buffer zone? MR. BREWER-You've got it, right there, and that will be complete for final. MR. RUEL-That's not the plan. I mean, you've got to have a listing of the trees. MR. OBERMAYER-He's got a listing. MR. BREWER-If we grant this waiver, and he goes on to final stage of subdivision, he'll have to have that complete plan to us for final, which will be next month. MR. NACE-For your review. MR. OBERMAYER--And you can ei ther incorporate it into your subdivision approve it or disapprove it. incorporate those, or not plan, but we'll be able to MR. RUEL-That's the only open item. What else is there? MR. BREWER-I want to see the trees left there, myself. If I was to make a motion, I would say that the trees stay there. MR. STARK-But not on the waiver part. MR. BREWER-On the waiver. I mean, that's the purpose of making th~n put the buffer there, because we're granting them the waiver, if we do. So we're going to tell him, if he comes back in in two months, and he wants to put a building there, he can cut the trees down? MR. STARK-No, no. Tim, you're talking about making a motion just for the wai ver, and then when we make a mot ion to approve the Preliminary, we can throw it in then. MR. MACEWAN-What would be the purpose of giving you this waiver and giving you a buffer, to have you say that you want to come back at site plan and take some of those trees out? MR. NACE-The purpose of the buffer is to mitigate the way the site looks now; MR. MACEWAN-That's right. MR. NACE-When we develop the site, and do a complete landscaping plan for whatever is going on that site, okay, then you have the approval process, in which you either accept or reject that. Okay. All I'm saying is that when we develop the si te (-lost word) there's a lot mo r e pia n n i n g t hat go e sin, to ma k e the sit e I 00 k n ice. Okay, and if it turns out, just from the layout of the site, that we need to violate that 75 foot buffer, in a few places, then I would at least like you to keep an open mind. MR. MACEWAN-On that topic, to go back, with the amount of grad.ing that has to be done on the site now, in order to plant this buffer and to fill in some of the deeper ravines up there, why can't you take into cons i der a t i on, r i gh t now, and make a sing I e acces sin there? There's a couple of other places up along Route 9 that have - 54 - '. '''--'' ~ a lot steeper access into their places than this one here. What's the name of the Motel up there in Lake George, just before you get to Lake George, it used to be the George Washington? MR. RUEL-The Travel Lodge. MR. MACEWAN-I'm talking something with that kind of approach, that's a lot steeper grade, and it's a lot higher elevation than we're talking about here. They've accomplished it. You should be able to accom~lish it. MR. NACE-I've already said that we will try. Okay. MR. BREWER-How deep is the lot, Tom, from the 75 foot? MR. NACE-From the 75 foot. MR. MACEWAN-Three twenty-five, Guido? MR. BREWER-So if you, 300 feet, to meet your back setback is what, 50? So you could put a 250 foot building. MR. NACE-That's a complete buffer. That's not a building setback. " MR. BREWER-I understand. MR. NACE-That's a real buffer. MR. BREWER-Is there a setback from that, b~ilding? MR. NACE-No. MR. BREWER-All right. So you've got. MR. NACE-You typically don't put your building right, especially c ormne r cia I . MR. BREWER-How deep of a building could you put there? MR. NACE-I don't know. Well, we don't know what kind of building. We don't know what the parking requirements are. I'm just saying that there are enough unknowns, at this point, and if you're going to have the review process over what's finally done, that the purpose of the 75 foot buffer is to buffer this unfinished site, okay. Now when the site's finished, it's going to look a whole lot different, and maybe that 75 foot buffer is not necessary, at that point, in places. MR. OBERMAYER-Why do we want to lock ourselves in to that 75 feet? MR. STARK-Tim, he's going to have to get a roadway through there, whether it's one inch or two inch. He's going to have to have a roadway through those trees, and we're going to have the ~pproval on it anyway, when he comes to us. MR. BREWER-What I'm saying, George, is if he builds, say this is the 75 foot. This is the road out here. This is the 75 foot or 50 foot or whatever, okay. He comes in to go to the dentist office and he builds his road here. Okay. Why couldn't he just come in, he's got to come to that intersection anyway, he could go that way with it, or this way, instead. All right. I'll go along with a minimum of 50 foot cut off. .MR. STARK-You're saying have the road inside the 75 foot? MR. BREWER-Exactly. MR. STARK-Well, you don't need that to make a waiver right now. MR. BREWER-I would want that as a condition of it, inside at least - 55 - ./ "-- minimum 50 foot. MR. OBERMAYER-I think the 75 foot buffer is good, but I mean, why can't we be flexible enough so that in the landscaping plan. MR. MACEWAN·-We are being flexible. MR. STARK-No. He means like, when he comes for a site plan. MR. OBERMAYER-Then we can revise it. MR. NACE-I'll tell you what, make it a permanent 60 foot buffer, with a 75 foot buffer, planted buffer now, but a 60 foot permanent buffer. MR. BREWER-I can live with that. MR. PALING-Are you saying you can live with that, if you're limited to a single access? MR. STARK-No, we're not talking a single access. MR. NACE-No. Access is a totally separate issue. If we're forced' to single access, then you're going to have to compromise on that buffer. That's just a practicality. There's no way around that. MR. PALING-Yes. MR. BREWER-You just gave us the numbers, Tom. You said 60 feet, permanent. MR. NACE-For everything except that access up to the other parcel. MR. BREWER-Exactly. MR. NACE-We'll live with that. MR. BREWER-Still maintaining the same amount of trees. MR. NACE-That's correct. MR. PALING-We just gave him 15 foot of buffer. don't like that. MR. BREWER-No, permanent, Bob. MR. NACE-I'm saying that now we'll plant back to 75 feet. Okay, but we will stipulate that when our final site plan comes through that we will maintain a permanent 60 foot buffer. MR. BREWER-For the north parcel. MR. NACE-For the north parcel. ... MR. PAL I NG-On I y to be mod i f i ed becaus e 0 f an acces s, the acces s road. MR. NACE-The only place that that buffer would be compromised would be if we have to move, and I'll sit down and review the grading with you, so you can prove to yourself that we'd have to, for the single access. MR. PALING-That has nothing to do wi th the buffer on the north side, of the access? MR. BREWER-No. That would still be planted 75 foot now. MR. RUEL-You keep talking about a permanent buffer versus, what, temporary? MR. PALING-Well, this is only for the access. - 56 - .. ..... \--- ~ MR. NACE-What I'm proposing is that right now we will plant back to the 75 foot line, okay, but that we will agree that whatever site plan comes in here will not encroach, or will not, whatever site plan comes, we will a permanent 60 foot buffer. MR. RUEL-Isn't the 75 permanent? MR. BREWER-No. Seventy-five is temporary. If he ever has to make any provisions to get into the northern parcel, that he can't get in there with9ut cutting some of those trees, the most he could ever cut out of there is 15 feet. MR. PASSARELLI-Only if I can get a second access. If I can't, I'll give you the 75 foot buffer. I'll leave that permanent. MR. NACE-Why don't you make it a 60 foot buffer, period, and we'll li ve with that. MR . STARK - The fur the rea sty 0 u goo nth a t pro per 1 y, 0 k a y , e a s t , with a permanent buffer, the steeper the grade goes going to dentist office site, okay, and the harder it becomes to put a road in there. MR. BREWER-No. We compromised on that side, George. On the south side of the property we said he didn't have to be 75 feet. He could be back as far as 50. So he could cut the road in there to make the single access. MR. NACE-I don't know, until I grade it out, I don't know what it has to be to get that single access out, okay. What~I was saying is 75 foot, until the site's developed. Once the site's developed, 60, okay, but that if we're forced into single access, until I work the grading plan out, I don't know how close we're going to have to be with that road. Grade that as a driveway where it crosses a buffer, if you will. MR. OBERMAYER-There's 650 foot of frontage there. I don't see what their big deal is about one access or two accesses. MR. BREWER-That's just, you want two. We want one. Why don't you want one? You're asking us why we don't want two. MR. STARK-It would be more attractive with two. MR. OBERMAYER-I think it'll be a better landscaping. MR. BREWER-I don't think so. That's mY opinion. You've got your opinion. MR. NACE-Okay. Give us the opportunity to work out the single versus double access with DOT, okay, have that worked out by the time we come back to you, and however that effects the buffer, let us, we'll try to mitigate or to minimize whatever effect that has on the buffer. Lets deal, now, just with the buffer, however you want. MR. STARK-Lets deal with the waiver. MR. BREWER-Lets deal with it, then. I still say it should be 75 foot. We started with 50. We went up to 75, now we're down to 60. MR. PASSARELLI-We'll give you 75, if I can get double entrance. MR. BREWER-What if you only get a one entrance? MR. PASSARELLI-Then I don't know (lost word). MR. RUEL-Why don't we make the 75 permanent. MR. BREWER-I mean, on the south side, we said we'd work with you 50 - 57 - .,;' "----' -.- feet. MR. RUEL-Yes, for their driveway. MR. BREWER-For the driveway. Then maybe we should find out if it works before we make any motions, to approve or disapprove. MR. OBERMAYER-Before we make a waiver. MR. BREWER--Yes. MR. RUEL-To find out what? MR. BREWER-Lets find out if it works, if he can put the driveway in there. If he can't, then we're talking a whole new plan. MR. MACEWAN-You have a lot of soil to move around up there, in your grading. I would think that you'd be able to acconml0date the land in such a way that you could make access via one curb cut. MR. PASSARELLI-I'm going to try my best. MR. NACE-We will do our best. to look 1 i ke exac t 1 y . I can't to be able to maintain 50 feet 70 feet. We just don't know what it's going tell you, here, whether we re going doing that, 40 feet, or 60 feet, or MR. BREWER-I would say a minimum of 50 on the south side, Tom, 75 on the nor t h sid e . T hat's jus t my 0 pin ion. I don' t k now how everybody else feels. MR. NACE-Lets go with that. MR. BREWER-But now I'm kind of in awe, what if you come back and say, fellas, it can't work? Then what do we do, rescind the motion to give the waiver, because it doesn't work? MR. NACE-No. MR. BREWER-I think you have to Inake it work. MR. NACE-Well, back up. If it doesn't work, and DOT says, you re right, it doesn't work, we'll give you two accesses, then we provide you 75 foot buffer overall. MR. RUEL-You can't go wrong. .~ MR. OBERMAYER-I would agree to that. MR. BREWER-In writing. can't be done. They've got to say, it doesn't work, it MR. NACE-And they've got to say accesses, because the single access that we will grant is impractical. you two MR. RUEL-Why not? This thing's got to fly sometime. MR. BREWER-It hasn't gQi to. MR. RUEL-No. We've got to get past the waiver. MR. BREWER-Well, somebody make a motion. MR. RUEL-All right. MOTION TO GRANT WAIVERS FOR PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 4- 1994 GUIDO PASSARELLI, I ntroduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: Waivers from AI83-2, and Article III, Section 183-5A of the Code, - 58 - .,' '- \.--- --../ with the stipulation that a 75 foot buffer zone in lieu of the 50 foot one shown, be landscaped per plan, with 100 plus trees, showing the type and the size. Trees to be replaced when dead, wit h i n a two yea r per i 0 d . The sou t h sid e 0 f the b u f fer ma y be reduced to accommodate the driveway. Landscaping of the complete 75 foot buffer zone to be completed on or before August 1st, 1994, and in no event shall any certificate of occupancy be issued prior to completion of that plan. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: MR. SCHACHNER-You also might want to clarify, what Roger meant by showing type and size. require certain types and sizes, don't you? I didn't understand thought you want to MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. RUEL-Wait a minute. I'm not finished. MR. PALING-Roger, could we add something to your motion, to the effect that the applicant provide a guarantee that the trees will be planted by such a date, and they will be maintained for a two year period, in the event of death? MR. BREWER-We've never granted this waiver, before. I won't say it's never been granted, but I've never been on the Board when .i t' s been granted. I would say that they have to be planted in such a time that, I don't know, how long do you need to plant them? MR. NACE-I think what you were talking about before was plans, have the plans as shown completed prior to any CO being issued for either parcel, the dentist office in particular. MR. RUEL-Landscaped plans to be completed prior to CO, landscaping to be completed. MR. BREWER-If you do your grading, just throwing these~numbers out. If you do your grading, it takes you a month to do your grading. I'm going on the high side. How much longer is it going to take to put the trees in? MR. PASSARELLI-About two weeks after that. MR. BREWER-So you cou I dn 't have someone s irnu I tan eo us I y pu t the trees in and do the dentist? MR. PASSARELLI-That's exactly (lost word) at the same time. MR. BREWER-So I would say that the, then, after the grading is done, two weeks or three weeks, the trees should be planted. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. MR. BREWER-If you get an approval, I don't want to say that we're going to grant you a waiver, and then have you go in there to grade it, build the dentist office, and then put the trees in. That's not what 1 envisioned. MR. SCHACHNER--Tim, you're talking about no issuance of the Certificate of Occupancy until the plan is complete, as I understand it, and Jim Martin, before he had to leave, anticipating this discussion, told me to mention to you his input into this issue, and his input is, that his recomrnendation is that the planting plan be completed, not just prior to issuance of Certificate of Occupancy, but prior to your final action on any site plan review application. That's a very significant difference, obviously, in timing. MR . PAS S AR ELL I - I h a v e a d e a d li n e , the den tis t has to be 0 u t 0 f there by the October 31st, he has to be out. That's why, I spent - 59 - --- ../ ---- several hundred thousand dollars for the building. Nobody's going to leave a building, several hundred thousand dollars, unoccupied, because the trees are not planted. MR. BREWER-I think what we're doing is we're granting a waiver for something, and then it's going to take second seat to the dentist, Guido. MR. PASSARELLI-It's not taking second seat to the dentist. The dentist will not move in until those trees are in. MR. BREWER-So what difference does it make if you put the trees are in first or last? MR. PASSARELLI-It's going to take a month to grade the property, and I will do exactly, after the grading the trees will be done. In the meantime, (lost word) dentist office. I can order the steel and stuff like that. There's a lot of stuff. MR. OBERMAYER-He's saying he wants to go ahead with the site plan. MR. BREWER-But I think it could be done simultaneously. MR. OBERMAYER-I think so, too. MR. NACE-Sure. MR. OBERMAYER-I think tying it to the grading, like you said. MR. BREWER-But then we don't have any specific dates. MR. OBERMAYER-Give us a date. MR. STARK-Say August 1st, the trees are in by 60 days. MR. BREWER-August 1st. Okay. Now I guess, what can happen if August 1 comes and goes and it's not completed, what can we do? MR. SCHACHNER-Well, for starters, I would suggest that you at least still include your previous suggestion about Certificate of Occupancy . So t hat, i not her w 0 r d s , as s um i n g I' m foil ow i n g your reasoninj, you don't want this all to occur, and if the applicant is able to have things happen very quickly, arguably, the applicant could be applying for a Certificate of Occupancy even before August 1st, and even before the planting is completed. So I guess, if I'm following your rationale, you should at least include that as an additional condition, as well. MR. BREWER-I don't want anybody in the building before the landscaping is done. MR. SCHACHNER-Right, and there is a risk of that. MR. BREWER-He could potentially go in there tomorrow and start grading and build the building, and have the dentist in before he puts a tree in the ground, George. MR. STARK-No. plan. )-Ie's got to come to us for the dent i s t for site MR. BREWER-So why can't we do it now? He agreed to do it. Tie it in with the CO not being issued until the landscaping is done. MR. RUEL-Do you want to tie it in with CO, because you mentioned, you said prior to final site plan approval? MR. SCHACHNER-Well, that's what Jim Martin said. Whoever said, a minute ago, said it right, said that, no CO, it has to be done, if I'm understanding your intent, it would be codified by suggesting that the planting plan or landscaping plan, whatever you want to - 60 - \...., '-- .-.J call it, has to be fully implemented by August 1st and in no event shall any Certificate of Occupancy be issued prior to completion of that plan. MR. BREWER-Exactly. AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Brewer NOES: Mr. MacEwan ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard MR. NACE-Now you have to act on SEQRA and you have to act on Preliminary. MR. SCHACHNER-Just to make this clear, you certainly don't have to. MR. NACE-I'm sorry. I used the wrong term. MR. BREWER-Now we can move on to subdivision. Now we've got to go through SEQRA. MR. HARLICKER-They've got a Long Form EAF that they filled out. MR. BREWER-Okay. Go ahead, Craig. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 4-1994, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before GUIDO PASSARELLI, and the Planning Board an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant env i ronmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, -- 61 - ./ ',-- --" Mr. Stark, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard MR. BREWER-Okay. We can move on. Now we can make a motion for the subdivision. MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 4-1994 GUIDO PASSARELLI, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Paling: At the Route 9 and Round Pond Road, for a three lot subdivision, with the condition that Rist-Frost notes are adhered to. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: MR. BREWER-We have to consider our conditions, whether we want to make him make this, before final, come back with a plan that works for the driveway, one curb cut, or are we going to ask him to have t~o curb cuts? We had discussion about that. MR. MACEWAN- I'm in favor of one curb cut. MR. BREWER-That would be illY.. favor. MR. STARK-Well, suppose i t doesn't work? MR. BREWER-Then it doesn't work. I think we can make a condition that if it doesn't ~ork, per DOT, then they'll grant him two curb cuts. Then we have to go along with it. MR. STARK-They would grant him two curb cuts now, based on his. MR. BREWER-Tom says that if he can't make it work, he'll get a letter from DOT stating that it won't work. MR. RUEL-Okay. Then I'll make it a condition that it be one curb cut. MR. BREWER-Provided it works. I don't want to make him make the one curb cut if it doesn't work. MR. STARK-Why even put that in now. For final you would have the information. MR. OBERMAYER-We're just subdividing the property right now. MR. BREWER-All right. Fine, but final it has to happen. you're going to come back wi th a plan to see if it regardless of whether we put that ill there or not? I mean, works, MR. NACE-I'm going to come back with a final plan that shows you either one access, if it works, or two accesses, plus a letter from DOT. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. PALING-And we can act on it accordingly at ~hat time. AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard MR. NACE-Okay. Can I ask two questions? First, we discussed out at the site the other day that the Board would like to see some - 62 - \...... \..- .-..-/ progress as far as site into shape. Preliminary's been tomorrow? grading off the steep slopes and getting the Now that the waiver's been granted, and approved, can we go start grading out there MR. BREWER-It doesn't bother me. It's not subdivided yet. He owns the land. He can do whatever he wants. MR. SCHACHNER-But wait a minute. The Town assumes no responsibility whatsoever for any such work that's undertaken, and the Planning Board members may be saying, yes, it's fine with them, but you just heard the Planning Board Chairman say that the fact that Preliminary subdivision's been granted doesn't mean that the land's been subdivided. MR. NACE-That's correct. MR. SCHACHNER-So there's no, I mean, the Planning Board members can say, yes, they're not offended by that, but that should not be in terpr eted, in any way, form, shape or manner as any Town endorsement of that work. MR. BREWER-That that's an approval of the dentist's office and/or the final. MR. SCHACHNER-Or any other work being undertaken by the applicant. MR. NACE-Right. We realize that. MR. SCHACHNER-All right. record. just wanted to make that clear on the MR. NACE-The work is undertaken at our own risk. MR. SCHACHNER-And there's 110 Town approval or endorsement of that work. MR. NACE-Because none's required. MR. SCHACHNER-That's fine. I just want to make that clear for the record. MR. PASSARELLI-The reason why I ask that question was there will be may b e a few c a II sin S co t t 's 0 f f ice on c e the y see t hat ma chi n e going. MR. SCHACHNER-And there may still be. I '01 not quarreling anybody. I'm just making sure that the record indicates that although the Town Planning Board members may have said they don't have a problem with that, that should not be interpreted by anYÞody as any official endorsement or approval by the Town of Queensb~ry. That's all. MR. NACE-The other question iSt yesterday was submittal date for June. Because of the time frames, and where we're at with this meeting, is it possible for me to submit final plans? The site plan for the dentist's office is already submitted. That has been put off until June. Is it possible for me to submit final plans for the subdivision by next Wednesday, and have that into your process? MR. BREWER-When's your Staff meeting? MR. HARLICKER-Tuesday or Wednesday. MR. BREWER-How about Tuesday? MR. NACE-Okay. that point. I pro b a b I y won' t h a v e fin a 1 a p pro val from DOT at - 63 /' ~ ./ --' MR. BREWER-As long as you have that for the meeting. MR. NACE-I may have that at the meeting. I have to work through the engineers to get their concurrence with what I'm doing. MR. BREWER-Okay. That's fine. MR. NACE-Okay. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Do we have to make a motion to indicate that, Mark? MR. SCHACHNER-It doesn't matter. MR. BREWER-Okay. Just do it. MR. NACE-Okay. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Thank you. SITE PLAN NO. 14-94 TYPE: UNLISTED GARY CARDINALE OWNER: EARLTOWN CORPORATION ZONE: HC-IA, LI-IA LOCATION: EAST QUAKER SERVICE RD. OPPOSITE GARDEN TIME. PROPOSAL IS FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A 11,880 SQ. FT. BUILDING WITH ASSOCIATED PARKING TO HOUSE SPORTLINE HONDA/KAWASAKI. ALL LAND USES IN THE HC &: LI ZONES ARE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW. BEAUTIFICATION COMM. - 5/9/94 WARREN CO. P LANN I NG - 5/ 11 /94 TAX MAP NO. 1 1 0 - 1 - 2 . 63 LOT S I Z E : 2 . 03 ACRE S SECT I ON 1 7 9 .- 2 3 , 1 79 - 26 JOHN GORALSKI, JON LAPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT .. STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 14-94, Gary Cardinale, Meeting Date: May 26, 1994 "PROJECT DESCRIPTION: The applicant is proposing to construct a 12,000 square foot sport vehicle sales and service center. The project includes 56 parking spaces. PROJECT ANALYSIS: In accordance with Section 179-38 A., the project is in compliance with the other requirements of this chapter, including the dimensional regulations of the zoning district in which it is to be located. In accordance with Section 179-38 B., the project was reviewed in order to determine if it is in harmony with the general purpose or intent of this chapter, and it was found to be compatible with the zone in which it is to be located and should not be a burden on supporting public services. In accordance with Section 179-38 C., the proposal was reviewed regarding its impact on the highways. There was found to be no significant impact on the r 0 ads y stem. I n a c cor d a n c e wit h S e c t ion 1 79- 38 D., the pro j e c t was compared to the relevant factors outlined in Section 179-39. The project was compared to the following standards found in Section 179-38 E. of the Zoning Code: 1. The location, arrangement, size, design and general site compatibility of buildings, lighting and signs; The project is compatible with the area. The 12,000 square foot building will fit well on the 2 acre site. The lighting should not negatively impact adjacent properties. A freestanding sign is proposed for the front and will be subject to a separate permit. 2. The adequacy and arrangement of vehicular traffic access and circulation, including intersections, road widths, pavement surfaces, dividers and traffic controls; The proposal includes two access drives. The elimination of the eastern access would help in future access management and not decrease accessibility of the site. The entrance could be relocated towards the center of the lot so that It lines up with the access drive on the west side of the building. Provision for interconnection with adjacent properties needs to be shown at the rear of the lot. 3. The location, arrangement, appearance and sufficiency of off-street parking and loading; There is sufficient parking provided with area for 31 spaces reserved for future use. In order to allow for landscaping and some green area along the road, the proposed parking spaces facing the road could be relocated along the west property line and the -- 64 -- " \...-..- .........,I building shifted to the east so that there is room for them. Access to the rear of the building would be via the gravel access on the west side of the building. 4. The adequacy and arrangement of pedestrian traffic access and circulation walkway structures, control of intersections with vehicular traffic and overall pedestrian convenience; Pedestrian access is adequate. 5. The adequacy of s tormwa ter drai nage fac i lit i es ; S tormwa ter dra i nage will be reviewed by Rist-Frost. 6. The adequacy of water supply and sewage disposal facilities; The site is serviced by municipal water. The sewage disposal system will be reviewed by Rist-Frost. 7. The adequacy, type and arrangement of trees, shrubs and other suitable plantings, landscaping and screening constituting a visual and/or noise buffer between the applicant's and adjoining lands, including the maximum retention of existing vegetation and maintenance including replacement of dead plants; The applicant does not show any landscaping on the west side of the lot and any comments from the Beautification Committee need to be addressed. 8. The adequacy of fire lanes and other emergency zones and the provision of fire hydrants; The nearest fire hydrant is 275 feet to .the west and emergency access is adequate. 9. The adequacy and impact of structures, roadways, and landscaping in areas wi th susceptibility to ponding, flooding and/or erosion. Erosion control measures shall be in place during construction and until the site has been stabilized. RECOMMENDATION: The site could be adequately accessed by one driveway located just to the east of the proposed location. The proposed parking that fronts the road could be relocated to the west side of the lot thereby increasing the amount of green space in the front yard. The relocated spaces would still be close to the entrance of the building. The building could be moved to the east to allow room for the parking and a 24 f 00 t wid e d r i ve w 0 u 1 d pro v ide a c c e s s tot her ear s tor ag ear ea. The gravel drive on the east side of the building could be eliminated without hindering access to the storage area." MR. HARLICKER-Warren County approved, "With the the Army Corps. of Engineers permit is needed, it." Rist-Frost, Bill has some comments, but I Engineering comments have been addressed. condition that if they wi II obtain think most of the MR. MACNAMARA-Well, to sununarize, basically, tl1ere were some minor comments on stormwater. There were some comments on the septic system, and there were comments on parking, but because we did this early enough, the applicant has already submitted responses to all the conunents which were acceptable, and we have no further engineering comments. If you care to, we could go over each and every item, but they have been addressed. MR. BREWER-Not if they've been met, no. Okay. approved, did you already mention that, "With the the Army Corps. of Engineers permit is needed, it." Is that a fact or a fiction? Warren County condition that if they wi II obtain MR. GORALSKI-Well, we don't have a choice. . MR. BREWER-I mean, have you contacted them? MR. GORALSKI-We don't believe there is one. We will contact them. MR. BREWER-Okay. Would you care to address Scott's comments? MR. LAPPER-Mr. Chairman, for the record, my name is Jon Lapper, from Lemery & Reid. I'm here with John Goralski, from Richard Jones Associates. Just to give you a real quick overview, we think that this is really a very straightforward project, especially in comparison to a lot of things that have happened tonight. Gary Cardinale has an existing business on Route 9 that he's proposing to relocate. This will enable him to own the site and to just create a site that can be permanent for him, that's much more nicely landscaped than where he is now. This site was part of the former Earltown Subdivision. The first project that'll go in is - 65 - \.. .~. ../ -... the Earltown Subdivision. There's a service road which is called East Quaker Service Road, which does a lot to alleviate any traffic concern because there's a controlled access on it, and one single access onto that portion of Quaker Road, and future uses that will be built adjacent to this will also use the Service Road. We've worked with Earltown, in terms of negotiating a contract. They had the right to review the landscaping plan, which they did. We added an earth berm in the back, that Earltown requested, to protect future development, and they reviewed all that in the planting plan, and we discussed it with the Beautification Committee, and the Beautification Comnittee liked it as well. MR. BREWER-This lot is already an approved lot? MR. LAPPER-It's an approved subdivision, and John can address the specific concerns raised by Scott. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. GORALSKI--Thank you. The main issue that Scott raises is eliminating one of these road cuts, and having only one access to the site. First of all, because this is on the Service Road that we've all seen. It's been sitting there for, I don't know, probably six or seven years now, everyone's been waiting saying, when they develop that, that won't be like the Million Dollar Half Mile so we didn't think it was going to be an issue, but the main reason that we have two road cuts is because of the building code. We met with Dave Hatin. This is going to be a wood frame building. In order for us to construct a building of over 11,000 square feet, we need accessibility on the four sides of the building. Accessibility, in the Building Code, is defined as a 50 foot cleared area along the entire length of that side. MR. BREWER-What does that have to do with being built out of wood? MR. GORALSKI-Because of the fire hazard, because it's built out of wood. They need accessibility on all four sides. Now, the other part of Accessibility in the Building Code is that you have to be, the entire side has to be within 500 feet of a fire hydrant. Actually, the closes.t fire hydrant. MR. OBERMAYER-I'm sorry. facility? Is it going to be sprinkled, the MR. GORALSKI-No, it's not. Actually, the closest fire hydrant is actually~180 feet to the east. There's also one 275 feet to the west. In order to have accessibility, that 500 feet has to be the driving lane of the fire truck. In other words, you can't measure from the hydrant to this corner and say, that's 500 feet. It has to be the actual way that the truck would drive. In order to get that 500 foot distance, we had to have two road cuts. If we put the road cut over here, I believe here is where Scott suggested, we couldn't get that 500 feet on all four sides of the building. So, I mean, it's just a Building Code issue. In order to build this building, we need to do that. MR. BREWER-How much of an expense is a hydrant? MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. Why don't you put a hydrant in? MR. GORALSKI-Put a hydrant in? I'm not sure what you mean. MR. BREWER-Put a hydrant in. MR. OBERMAYER-Put a fire hydrant in. MR. GORALSKI-Out on the road, on the Town's right-of-way? MR. BREWER-That's where they put them. -- 66- ., "" .~ -,~-/ MR. GORALSKI-Well, I mean, I don't know. MR. BREWER-Do you have any idea how much of an expense that is? MR. OBERMAYER-It's not that expensive. MR. GORALSKI-Well, I guess, let me. is, to be honest wi th you. I don't know what the expense MR. LAPPER-Mr.' Chairman, we also have a site design issue, why we think that two curb cuts are necessary, and not going to be an impact on the Service Road. The one that you can see on the bottom there is where they would get their deliveries, and that's another reason why it's, why the roadway goes along the side, so that we can separate where the delivery trucks are going to come in, versus where the customers are going to come in. This is not a high traffic use at all. It's an existing business, and you can just go up there now and see what it is. MR. BREWER-Go up there in a couple of weeks and see if it's busy. MR. LAPPER-They do have their season, but the difference between one curb cut and two, in terms of any stacking, if it's two or if it's one, any stacking that would take place on the site. We don't think that there's going to be an impact issue, and the two curb cuts just let it work better for the site, to separate deliveries from customers. MR. MACEWAN-Is it your intention to designate the curb cuts as one deliveries only, one customers only? MR. GORALSKI-It was not necessarily. MR. STARK-The entrance is on the one side. MR. GORALSKI-I guess the point I want to make is that this is not going out onto Quaker Road, okay. This is going on t~ the Service Road. The whole idea of building the Service Road was so that you would control access onto Quaker Road. The only people that are going to be using this Service Road are the lots that are on here. If I can go back to the Million Dollar Half Mile scenario, everyone said , well , the way we' II sol v e the pro b I em i s to b u i 1 d s e r v ice roads. Well, you've already got a service road. MR. RUEL-You're talking about the service road. distance between the service road and Quaker? What is the MR. GORALSKI-The distance between the southern side of the pavement of East Quaker Service Road and Quaker Road itself is, I'm not sure, probably 50 feet. Fred, do you know what it is? FRED TROELSTRA MR. TROELSTRA-It's about 75 feet. MR. GORALSKI-Seventy-five feet, of actual grass area. MR. BREWER-The hydrants, John, are they on the Service Road? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. They're on the Service Road. There's a water line that runs, all the services are in the Service Road. MR. BREWER-So, initially, you won't be cutting any, so to speak, holes in the road on Quaker Road to come in. There'd just be one curb cut to come in to the Service Road, and then go in from the Service Road. MR. GORALSKI-The Service Road is already built. MR. BREWER-I understand that, but you're not going to do any. - 67 -, "T- - ~--' MR. GORALSKI-Construction on Quaker Road at all. MR. BREWER--So then two curb cuts on the Service Road, don't think, is, it's not an issue. misunderstood you. I'm sorry. MR. OBERMAYER-No. I don't think it's a problem either. MR. LAPPER-And we'd be happy to designate one and say, deliveries, so that the drivers know that, if the Board would like. MR. BREWER-I don't think it's necessary. MR. OBERMAYER-I think it would be nice to see a fire hydrant there, though, if he owned, for safety. MR. GORALSKI-Well, see, the thing is, these fire hydrants were placed per the Town standards. I just think adding another fire hydrant is, I don't think there's any need for it. Basically, the reason the Building Code requires the 500 foot length is because your standard pumper carries 500 feet of five inch hose on it, which is what they lay from the hydrant to the seat. That's where they get the 500 foot distance from. So, the fire trucks are equipped for that distance. MR. STARK-You have two entrances here, right? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. STARK-And they're both on the west side? MR. GORALSKI-Correct. MR. STARK-So if I was going to the place, I wouldn't drive in over here and then, it would be logical to come in over here. MR. GORALSKI-Right. As John said, this is primarily going to be for service. The service area, I don't have an actual floor plan of the building, but the service area is in this back area here, so that the UPS trucks can come in here and drop off parts and stuff like that, and not congest this parking area, the customer area. MR. BREWËR-Okay. We can go on. MR. LAPPER-John, a couple of other issues. Moving the building, the reason why we can't. MR. GORALSKI-Okay. Well, that was the same with the 50 foot. We have a 50 foot setback right here. If we move the building to the east, we lose that accessibility. MR. LAPPER-And the plantings along the west. MR. GORALSKI-We spoke with the Beautification Cormnittee, the idea being that this was a commercial subdivision and there were going to be conIDlercial uses all along here. We provided a grassed area, which is part of our stormwater management area along the side of there. It will be maintained grass area, and we also provided some trees out by the street, and a foundation type planting, with some flowering crabs, to soften the scale of the building up front. As I said, we discussed it with the Beautification Conm1Ïttee, and they felt that it was a good plan. There were no real con~ents on it. MR. MACEWAN-What kind of trees were you planning on putting in out there at the island in front of the building, along the road? MR. GORALSKI-Along the road will be maples. MR. MACEWAN-They are maples? Great. MR. GORALSKI-And as I said, there would be flowering crab apples by - 68 - \'-"' """-"" -! the building, and some spruce along the east property line. MR. BREWER-Do you have any kind of an idea, a picture, or plan of anything, what the building's going to look like? MR. LAPPER-We've got an elevation. It's not colored up. MR. STARK-What's the height, 10 foot ceilings inside? MR. OBERMAYER-No, probably higher than that. MR. LAPPER-Gary tried to have this designed so that it looks (lost word) metal building. It's going to have a drive in facade up on the front. MR. GORALSKI-I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I know it's not higher than 20 feet. MR. PALING-Where is your mechanical equipment going to go? MR. GORALSK I -Mechan i ca I ventilating? equipment as far as heating and MR. PALING-Yes. MR. GORALSKI-That would all be inside. MR. PALING-Are you going to air condition the building? There is no air conditioning? Okay. So you'll have, everything will be within the building. MR. GORALSKI-Right. MR. BREWER-Is it going to be a wood sided building? MR. GORALSKI-No. It'll be a metal sided building, with a stow or drive in on the front end of the building. GARY CARDINALE MR. CARDINALE-In an effort to enhance the look of the building, the Earltown Corporation, who does have final say in the looks of the building, we're totally satisfied with the total met~l look. So there'll be a metal range coating, if you will, down the front of the building, and half way down the side, anything that the public is exposed to. Above that, it gets the stowed, stucco look. The gabled end of the building that faces the road would get that same stucco. The entrance, it's a corner entrance building, by the way. That gable entrance would get stuccoed, and so would the gabled entrance to the Service Department, halfway down the west side of the building. They made me trade almost, and in fact it isn't even on that part of the road yet, but that as it may. MR. BREWER-Okay. Is there any other questions from anybody on the Board? MR. MACEWAN--"They" being Earltown? MR. CARDINALE-Yes. MR. RUEL-What color? MR. CARDINALE-It's probably going to be a two tone beige or a two tone grey, something very neutral. This will be a very natural, earthy look. MR. MACEWAN-And what about a display area outside? MR. GORALSKI-He's got this covered porch here, which is where he does most of his displays now, and that'll be a similar situation - 69 - ---~ ~'--, back here. There's also a fenced in outdoor storage area where some excess stock will be stored, and there's also, under here, there is another fenced in area that will be where he's storing stuff. So everything will be contained in here, either behind the building or within this area here, except for the new stock, it's brought out in the morning and then brought in at night. MR. MACEWAN-Okay, then nothing will be ever displayed out in the designated parking areas, then? MR. CARDINALE-I didn't realize I had to agree to that. There's nothing anticipated at this moment, but I wouldn't like to be denied that, down the road, if I decided to do it. Hopefully, everyone has passed by our facility where it is on Route 9, and I don't think we've ever done anything that's in poor taste. MR. STARK - He' s got s t u f f d i s p I aye d the r e, but he t a k e sit i n eve r y night. MR. MACEWAN-I just asked a question. That's all. MR. OBERMAYER-Did you mention you're going to have a service corridor on the east part of the building? MR. GORALSKI-There's a door on that side for, like, a UPS, and that type of thing. MR. OBERMAYER-There is? Okay. What is this door going to be used, is this going to be a door over here, or what? MR. STARK-On the west side, hair way in. MR. GORALSKI-On the west side, this door here is for people who bring in~their vehicles for service, and that type of thing, can bring them in here. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. Is this a loading dock or something? MR. GORALSKI-No. There's a little ramp here because this covered porch has a curve, but that's just a door going in here to the service area. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay, and the elevation of this is equal to the ground elevation, right? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. The finished floor is six inches above the finished grade of the porch. MR. OBERMAYER-And you're going to pour a continuous footing on here, right? MR. GORALSKI-For the building? MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, for the building. MR. STARK-You've got frost walls down first. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. It'll be a slab on grade. MR. OBERMAYER-It will be a slab on grade? Ther"e's no frost wall running around the exterior? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. There will be a frost wall there. Well, no, not exactly, see this building is what's called a Morton Building. I'm not sure if you're familiar wi1h them. They're wood framed, and six by six timbers. So they'll have footings for their timbers. MR. OBERMAYER-It's like a pole barn. pole barn. That's what it is. It's a - 70- '-~ ~ MR. GORALSKI-The actual framing is similar to a pole barn. MR. OBERMAYER-Six by sixes? MR. CARDINALE-Seven feet on center. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, it's a pole barn. All right. MR. PALING-We skipped by the Army Corps. of Engineers I comment there. What's, the status wi th you and them? MR. LAPPER-Some of the other Earltown property is wet. This is a high point, which is why Gary picked this lot, I mean, this is a hill, and we don't anticipate that there's any issue. The County just raised that without, they just asked that as a question, which is just stating the law, that if the Army Corps. permit is issued, we would get one, and of course, if one was, we would. MR. BREWER-Have you contacted them? MR. LAPPER-We haven't. John will. MR. BREWER-So a condition of approval would be that correspondence between the two parties be undertaken. MR. LAPPER-That's fine, and the same thing the County said, that if a permit is required, we will get one. MR. BREWER-But if you never contact them, you'll never know. MR. LAPPER-We will correspond with them and we will submit that to Jim. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. MACEWAN-Seeing that we have a representative from Gardentime here, what will happen with all the sheds on display in front of your proposed site? MR. TROELSTRA-They're going to remain right there. MR. MACEWAN-They're going to remain right there. MR. GORALSKI-I don't believe it's on their lot. MR. MACEWAN-It would obstruct the view, ways, of your property. would think, in some MR. LAPPER-It's an adjacent lot. MR. BREWER-Well, we can get to that issue afterwards, because we did have an issue with that. There is an issue with that, and I don't think it's the proper time to discuss that, but we can discuss it afterwards. Okay. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED FRED TROELSTRA MR. TROELSTRA-I 'm Fred Troelstra, from Gardentime, a business owner in Queensbury. I just want to make the comment that I think Gary's proposal for a building and business on the south end of Queensbury is going to be a positive impact on the Town. I, personally, don't see any pro b I em wit h w hat he' s got pro p 0 sed her e, and I g u e s s , since the issue's been raised, as Tim says, I guess we'll table the issue of the buildings that we have, in agreement with Earltown, currently. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED - 71 " -..-. - ~~ MR. BREWER-Now we can do the SEQRA. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 14--94, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adop ti on, second ed by Rog er Rue 1 : WHEREAS, ther e application for: is presently before GARY CARDINALE, and the Planning Board an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An J;;.nvironmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopteg this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Stark, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard MR. BREWER-Okay. Would somebody care to make a motion? MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 14-94 GARY CARDINALE, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Paling: For a proposal for construction of an 11,880 sq. ft. building and associated parking to house Sportline Honda/Kàwasaki, that the possible open item with the Corp of Engineers be resolved, with correspondence to Jim Martin. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE - 72 -- ~ .~--! - ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard MR. BREWER-Mr. Lapper, can I just address you with one other issue? MR. LAPPER-Yes. MR. BREWER--Nothing to do with this. Queensbury Plaza is on our agenda for next month, hopefully. Hopefully the driveway in the back will be blocked off. MR. LAPPER-+loward Carr and I had a long meeting with Jim Martin yesterday. The work was going to start on Tuesday morning at nine o'clock. MR. BREWER-I was told today that it was going to start tomorrow. I was told two weeks ago that it was going to start Monday. MR. LAPPER-The work is going to start Tuesday morning. MR. BREWER-I hope that it's done, before you come back here and expect to get any kind of consideration from this Board. MR. LAPPER-Absolutely. Howard is a man of his word, and we've had some delays, but it's all going to get done. It's going to get cleaned up, and you're going to be real happy. MR. BREWER-Before Red Lobster comes back? MR. LAPPER-Yes, by the end of the month, before we're back. MR. BREWER-Thank you. MR. HARLICKER-Did Pam mention that we advertised, at least) for the Howard Carr? You should make a motion to table that, but open the public hearing first, since it's already been advertised. MR. BREWER-All right. a matter of seconds. table it. That's all Can we just do that real quick. It'll take We've just got to open a public hearing and we've got to do, no SEQRA or anything. SITE PLAN NO. 35-92 TYPE I MODIFICATION HOWARD CARR THE HOWARD GROUP MANAGEMENT CO., I NC. OWNER: I LENE FLAUM ZONE: PC-l A LOCATION: QUEENSBURY PLAZA MODIFICATION OF A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SITE PLAN TO ADD A FREESTANDING RESTAURANT AND ADDITIONAL PARKING WHICH WILL RESULT IN A NET DECREASE OF 9,325 SQ. FT. OF GLA. BEAUTIFICATION COMM. - 5/9/94 WARREN CO. PLANNING - 5/11/94 TAX MAP NO. 103-1-1 LOT SIZE: 13.67 ACRES SECTION 179-22 MR. BREWER-Okay. All we've got to do is just open the public hearing, leave it open. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED MR. BREWER-Now would somebody care to make a motion to table? - MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 3.5-92 HOWARD CARR, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roger Rue!: At the applicant's request. Duly adopted this 26th day of May, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard DISCUSSION ITEM: - 73 -- '................... PROPOSED SITE PLAN FOR NATIVE TEXTILES RI01ARD ROSEN, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. BREWER-This is just a quick discussion with the people that hope to build Native Textiles. MR. ROSEN-Good evening. My name is Richard Rosen. I'm with Columbia Development. I'm the applicant and also the potential landlord. I'm here tonight discussing the proposed Native Textile project. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with it, the proposal for the project. It's located off of Carey Road. Right now, the Town is proposing to build a road to access our site. We're in negotiations with the Town to make those provisions. They have to design it yet, and build it, but we've been given the assurance that this road's going to be built this sun~er, and hopefully in time for us to have our facility up and running. MR. PALING-Excuse me. I'm kind of a newcomer. Carey Road is. don't know where MR. ROSEN-It's off Corinth Road. MR. BREWER-Remember the Logger's Equipment faci 1 i ty? across from that. Directly MR. PALING-Okay. Yes. Thank you. MR. ROSEN-Okay. What we have, there's a loop, and we're going to come off that loop and connect, potentially, to this property, and what we have proposed is a new knitting facility. It will be 1 1 6 , 000 s qua ref e e t , r 0 ugh I y ,of ma n u f act u r i n g . The r e ' 11 be knitting going on inside, moving and storage of products. The products that they use are nylon and polyester. Basically what they do is they knit fabric. They (lost word) synthetic fiber, and they sell them to companies such as Nike, Hanes Sportswear, undergarment things, things that use their product. So they roll up the material and then they ship it out. They ship it to other processing places, located in Glens Falls. Just as a quick reassurance, no chemicals are involved in the process. There's no hazardous waste produced by what's going to be going on at this facility. It'll be a single story metal building, and I'll just show you quickly, here. Nothing fancy. Typical for this application, for overhead doors, for receiving and shipping out goods. They're going to have roughly 100 employees working at this facility. They're going to do it in shifts. There'll be approximately 30, as many as possibly 40 people on a shift. They will have three shifts a day. Any other questions? I mean, we submitted our application a while ago. I don't know if the Board members have had an opportunity, yet, to review it. MR. BREWER-No. We haven't had a chance. That's the reason for the letter. We had no plans. We looked at nothing. We had no idea what it looked like. That's the reason for the. MR. OBERMAYER-We haven't seen any drawings on it. MR. BREWER-Just to save time, we're going to get our plans and everything, and we'll treat this just like another application. I don't mind discussing it, but we've got tö do a 'site visit, go out there and see what it is. The quest.ions that 1 had, has the contract been signed with the Town, with the QEDC, and then with you? All these issues about that, and then the road being built I think have to be taken care of before we do a site plan on it, I would think. JOHN LEMERY MR. LEMERY -Maybe I cou I d answer that. I'm Couns e I to Na t i ve Textiles, which is the tenant. This is a piece of land, just for - 74 - '-'- "-i_I background, if there's anybody who's unfamiliar with it, that is currently owned by the Town. It was zoned Light Industrial. It was purchased several years ago, apparently for the Town Landfill. There's a huge ravine in there. During the days ~here people thought you could take it and dump it in the big ravine is when the Town bought the land and expected to use it as a landfi II. There was a site selection process that occurred over the last several months, and finally this site was deemed to be a good site, located near Exit 18, adjacent to the Carey Park, and negotiations started to take p I ace. be tween the Town and Co I umb i a, and cons equent I y Native Textiles for the site. The Town, when it sold the land to Carey, or rather the Town, when Carey developed the Carey Industrial Park there reserved a right-of-way into its piece of land, a 50 foot right-of-way, from Carey Road, which is now a Town road. The Town reserved a 50 foot right-of-way into the site. The contract was held up because there had to be located another easement for the Town to get back into another parcel of land the Town owns, between Hudson River and this site, and so the engineers had to work out the specifics with respect to that piece of land that Rich is pointing to now, that basically gives the Town access to the parcel behind the piece that is going to be dedicated to Native. That has finally been done. The contract should be kind of signed within the next couple of days. That was the only impediment to the signing, between the Town and the QEDC. The QEDC then will sign the contract with Columbia, and the site will be the 116,000 square foot factory for Native Textiles. It's about a 34 acre piece. The factory will take up approximately, at this point, 10 acres. There is planned on the site for the future, a potential warehouse, an 85,000 square foot warehouse, but Native, right now, is locked into a lease for another couple of years. So that plan is not presently one that is likely to be put into effect before the next year or so. The plan now is to try and get the factory started as quickly as possible, because Native has notified its workforce in Pennsylvania, where it owns another factory, that they're going to be consolidating their manufacturing operations up here, closing the factories in Dallas, Pennsylvania, and moving the factory up here. So that's what this site will be used for, for the knitting mill, which was formerly located down in down in Pennsylvania, been doing a lot of negotiations, negotiating with the utility to try to get power through (lost word) and work out the power rates in a more effective fashion than the industrial customers now pay the Niagara Mohawk business part of the economic development zone, and if the economic development zone is passed in the Town, is passed by the legislature, this portion of the Town is in that zone, and this particular parcel is in that zone, and that would result in additional favorable impact on the factory. So that's where it is. MR. BREWER--And you anticipate construction when? MR. ROSEN-Well, we'd like to start construction as soon as possible, obviously. MR. BREWER-But you have to wait for the Town to build the road. MR. ROSEN-I don't have to wait for the Town to build the road to build the building. I'll need the Town road constructed to get a Certificate of Occupancy. MR. LEMERY-Well, the Town has given the Company permission now, already, to go and clear cut the area for the road. So that will get started right away, and they'll need to put enough dirt on it, I guess, so they can get on the site, and then they'll start clearing the site. MR. MACEWAN-Is that clear cut a chosen word to use? MR. LEMERY-Well, they're going to move those trees. There's some big trees that Guido's marked down there, so we're going to move those up to his site. - 75 - , .....~ ~--,' MR. ROSEN-Yes. For construction purposes, we'l1 be using this as our access to the site also, and when the t.ime comes, wit.h construction going on back here, and the road being built, there'll be some coordination. MR. BREWER-Yes, but how can you go in there and start cutting trees and putting roads in start building? You haven't even got a site plan yet. You can't just go in there and start cutting now, until at least the end of next month. MR. LEMERY-We've got permission from the Town to go on the site. MR. BREWER-The Town, you can go on the site, but the Town can't give you permission that we can give you permission to do. Can they? They can't. override us in a site plan. MR. SCHACHNER-If you're looking at me, Mr. Lemery is the attorney for Native Textiles. MR. LEMERY-We're not coming here to override anything. MR. BREWER-No. I understand that. don't care if you go on the site. I'm not arguing the point. MR. LEMERY-We're going to try to get a site plan approved by the end of June, so that we can get this financing started. MR. BREWER-But you would start then. MR. LEMERY-Yes. MR. OBERMAYER-You would start clear cutting then. MR. LEMERY-Yes. Right now they've got to get the road open so they can get on the site. The environmental (lost word) and they're going in and doing the borings, to make sure that there's no. MR. BREWER-Should that be done before we have a site plan? MR. SCHACHNER-As I was trying to say a minute ago, I take it you're looking at me for advice on this. Mr. Lemery is an attorney for Native Textiles. I'm a frequent a,ttorney for Columbia Development. So I really can't Counsel the Board on this. I mean, I'll answer this question, but I have to tell you, I am an attorney for Columbia Development often, and I am actually a proponent of this project, although not officially, but, you know, just as Mr. Passarelli did not require any type of Town permit or authorization for clear cutting his property, and I would take a very, I would use a very different term than the one that Native Textiles Counsel would use. MR. LEMERY-Excuse me. What we're going to do is go on the site. We're going to do the test borings on the site. We're going to do what we have to do to mark the site. We're going to get the trees down on the road so they can get access to the site on the Town highway, and that's what they're going to do. MR. BREWER-Nobody has a problem with that, John. I'm asking, do the borings, do the perc tests and all that, don't they have to be done before you submit a site plan? MR. LEMERY-The borings and all that has to be done before they're going to acquire the site. So, while it's still on (lost word). MR. ROSEN-Everyone keeps talking about bor ings. The only soi I investigation that I have to do on this site is to find the bearing capacity of the sand to design my foundation. As far and stormwater, obviously, we're going to have to do a percolation test that'll have to be satisfied by the Department of Health to design and construct our septic field, but as far as other borings are - 76 - " ~ '"'-It..! concerned, we're not going to go back there and start digging huge holes. MR. BREWER-I guess that's what my question is. Does that have, the septic and everything has to be designed before you can submit a plan for a site plan approval. MR. ROSEN-Well, we've done preliminary investigation,-I mean, it's a typical soil. The soil up there is not really a mystery to anybody. MR. BREWER-You're missing the question. MR. LEMERY-The answer is, yes. site plan. He's got to come in with a full MR. BREWER-Okay, but he's already got that done. MR. ROSEN-Right. MR. BREWER-So that's in your application now. MR. ROSEN-Correct, the design and everything for the septic system, yes. MR. BREWER-That's all I wanted to know. MR. ROSEN-Right. I mean, the Department of Health will require us to be on site to do their own percolation, matters like that, but. MR. BREWER-That's the only thing I wanted to know. MR. ROSEN-Okay. MR. BREWER-If all that stuff was done in your application now. MR. ROSEN-Yes. MR. BREWER-I presume that, I misunderstood you. You said you were talking about having things done. I thought you were going to do them after the fact that the application has already been submitted. MR. ROSEN-No. MR. LEMERY -The ques t i on was, ar e they go i ng on the site to do borings. Yes. They're going to do borings b~cause the tenant has ordered a limited phase two audit, which means that we want to make sure there's nothing of an environmentally hazardous nature on the site. So we've ordered a limited phase two audit. There is a junk car out there and some other things. The Town is removing those now. MR. MACEWAN-This is just basically to ensure that the property is safe for use to purchase. MR. LEMERY-Exactly, and we've got to go on the site to do that. There's been an agreement between the Town and the Company, that provides for the Town to be indemnified until such time as the parcel's transferred from the Town to the QEDC, and from the QEDC to Columbia. Native is not involved in the site plan, other than to say that we've asked Columbia to try to get the site plan approved by the end of June, so that the financing can take place and the factory can start. Once the lease is signed, Columbia is under a time frame within which to complete the building or pay a penalty, and the reason is that they've notified theWworkforce in Pennsylvania that they're shutting the plant down, so they have to get the plant built. The site's zoned Light Industrial. The site plan should not be a problem. - 77 - , '» ,'-/ .. -.- -- MR. STARK-Is there a Preliminary and a Final on this, John? MR. BREWER-Just one site plan. MR. MACEWAN-A site plan, a one step process. MR. STARK-And you're on for the first meeting in June. MR. LEMERY-I don't know if they've scheduled or not yet. MR. HARLICKER-The agenda hasn't been set yet. " MR. MACEWAN-Where will this building sit? Do you have a drawing of where this building sits in respect to the entire Carey Industrial Park? MR. ROSEN-Yes. We have a location map, a small scale, on the front page of our first site plan, I mean, the typical part of the site plan application. MR. MACEWAN-I'd be curious to see where it sits within the Park. MR. STARK-Which road do you go in, the west or the east Carey Road? - MR. MACEWAN-And this is the access road that you're talking about building? MR. ROSEN-Yes. See the darkened in shade? That would be the road that the Town has agreed to put in. MR. MACEWAN-Okay. Thanks. I just wasn't sure where it was actually sitting within the Park. MR. OBERMAYER-Where's Columbia from? MR. ROSEN-We're an Albany based firm. I mean, we have our application in. We know we have to run do process. We're not asking for any favors, but we want you to know where we're coming from, our situation, and if there's anything you can do that's within reason that can help us out to accelerate this process, fine. If something comes up, and you have a question, we'll be fully prepared to go back and do our homework and answer it. MR. STARK-You had a request to be on the first one in June. there is a question, we can always get it done by the meeting in June. So if second MR. ROSEN-Right, and guess in the meantime, you're going to review the application and the environmental assessment form, the long form we filled out, and then I'd request that during the do process, you guys go out and visit the site. We schedule our public hearing, and we go from there. It would be to my advantage to push very hard, without trying to be obnoxious, but by the end of June, it would be very beneficial for us to have site plan approval. I mean, that's our goal. Then if something comes up along the way, we're willing to deal with it. We want to work with the Town, with the Planning Board, and that's basically where we're coming from. That's why we had the discussion for tonight. MR. MACEWAN--It was stated that you guys are going' to start clearing through the access road to get into the site, to start work in there, do some tests and stuff, will that be taken care of by the 15th of next month, do you know, that you'll have access? MR. STARK-He's saying so we can go in. MR. MACEWAN-That we can get in there, as well, and see it? MR. ROSEN-Absolutely. Yes. We have an agreement. We have an actual, ~ don't know if you could call it for technical things. I - 78 -- ',~'~'~' 'Ii '-......~ I '-i. i " don't want to get these guys involved, because they'll just make us stay here longer. It's a contract, or it's an agreement, it's an official legal document that states that we can go on the property, and posted a bond for the work we're going to do, and there's insurance on the property that holds everybody that's involved, and hopefully next week we're going to go out there and get our surveyor going and clear the road, so we can at least get out there and start doing some preliminary things. We wouldn't go and start digging, obviously, for a building, yet. - MR. STARK-So we can get out there for site reviews on the 15th? MR. BREWER-Yes. We'll be able to drive right out there. MR. ROSEN-Okay. When's the next meeting? MR. MACEWAN-The 21st. MR. BREWER-June 21st. MR. ROSEN-June 21st. So we can get on the agenda for that? MR. BREWER-Yes. You've already subn1itted your application. MR. ROSEN-·Okay. MR. MACEWAN-There's no reason why we can't accommodate them, and put them on the first meeting. If something that is awry that needs to be addressed before final approval is made, that we can do it before the second meeting. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. MR. LEMERY-If you're having a special meeting for the other applicant, could we get on that meeting? MR. MACEWAN-We won't have seen the site. MR. BREWER-We're not going to the site visits, John, until the 15th. MR. MACEWAN-It shouldn't be a problem. In mY opinion, from what I'm seeing, and what I know of it, I don't see a problem, that it wouldn't be approved. That's mY opinion. MR. ROSEN-Okay. That's it, and I'd just like to do one things. have actual calculations for the stormwater report. Can I submit them her e? S h 0 u I d I ma i I them in, 0 r co u I d I jus t h and them i n tonight? MR. HARLICKER-If you ve got them, I'll take them. MR. BREWER-Give them to Scott. Are we supposed to discuss these two items, Potvin property and Passarelli property? MR. HARLICKER-I don't know anything about them. MR. BREWER-So we're not supposed to discuss them, land dedication for recreation purposes. MR. STARK-That's the first I've heard about. about it. Scott doesn't even know about it. from? Nobody else knows Where'd you get it MR. MACEWAN-It was in our packets. MR. BREWER-It was in our packet. - MR. MACEWAN-Site visits are on the 15th, at four o'clock - 79 - " . .,-' ..... ' ...... ----" On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Timothy Brewer, Chairman - 80 --