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1994-06-16 -- ----./ --,- --......,/ GLENS FALLS TRANSPORTATION COUNCIL ROUTE 9/254 CORRIDOR STUDY JUNE 16, 1994 INDEX Discussion of Route 9/254 Corridor Study 1. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. ""- ~ o -J GLENS FALLS TRANSPORTATION COUNCIL ROUTE 9/254 CORRIDOR STUDY JUNE 16,. 1994 7:00 P.M. TOWN SUPERVISOR-FRED CHAMPAGNE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN G.F. TRANSPORTATION COUNCIL-JOANNA M. BRUNSO, STAFF DIRECTOR DISCUSSION OF ROUTE 9/254 CORRIDOR STUDY MR. CHAMPAGNE-My name is Fred Champagne. I serve as the Queensbury Town Supervisor, and, again, welcome to our meeting this evening, where we're going to further discuss the Route 254/Route 9 Study. I just want to introduce here, my part, really, is to introduce Mr. Jim Martin, who is our Community Development Director, and I'm sure Jim will have considerable to say, relative to the local look at the intersection and the Study, and also with us this evening is Joanna Brunso. Joanna is with the Glens Falls Transportation Council. They've been studying this now for the past year, and tonight will share with you some of the findings that we found as a result of that study. So, with that, I'll turn the meeting over to these folks, and we'll get started. Thank you very much. MS. BRUNSO-I recognize some faces, and some of you are new to the room. As Fred Champagne said, I'm the Staff Director for the Glens Falls Transportation Council. This is a, defined in Transportation Law, as the Metropolitan Planning Organization, and every urban area over 50,000 has to have a Metropolitan Planning Organization. Now, the Metropolitan Planning Organization is made up of elected officials, elected to other offices, such as Victor Grant, who is the Chairman of the Board of Supervisors for Warren County, Harry Booth, who is the Chairman of t~e Board for Washington County. We have the Mayor of the Ci ty of Gl ens Fall s. The Mayor of the Village of South Glens Falls, the Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury, and several other people. They have to okay, they have to approve, every year, a listing of highway and transit and other infrastructure projects, and unless they approve of those things, the Federal Government will not pass money through the Department of Transportation to the Transit Authority or to the people who work on the roads. Now, obviously, they have a lot of things to cover, and they need to have staff that provides them with data, and this they get from usually their technical representatives in the Counties, such as the DPW's Chairmans, the Department of Public W 0 r k 's C h air ma n s, t he ViII age H i g h way Super vis 0 r s , and the Town Planners, such as Jim Martin, but they in turn need more additional data, and that's why they have a staff, and I'm the Director of that staff. Linda Stevens, over here, joined our group just a year ago. As a matter of fact, she came on board when we had the introductory meeting on this 9 and 254 Corridor Study. The reason we have to have this is that when we go about justifying a project on the highways, on the bridges, on the transit system, we have to compare our project to every other project in Region One, and Region One is Essex County, Washington, Warren, Saratoga Rensselaer, Schenectady, Albany, and Greene County. So, we have to find data that will say, okay, this is a good project, and it stacks up just as well as a project on Route 9 in Latham or Loudonville or 9W in the Town of Bethlehem, or one of the other projects. So this is why we do the Corridor Studies. Now Glens Falls began with five different Corridor Studies, one of which was a Corridor Study of Route 254, which comprises Aviation Road and Quaker Road. It was apparent from that Study that the intersection of 9 and 254 was in trouble, and we needed a much more detailed study in order to figure out what needs to be done to preserve that intersection from totally failing. That's how we began last year. We began with a scheme that some of you have seen, and I'd like to go over. The Corridor Study was really quite encompassing. We decided to look at zoning. We decided to look at traffic. We - 1 - -- ---./ ",--,- ---- decided to look at various ways of land planning. We decided to look at access management. We decided to look at everything we could do to preserve the carrying capacity of that intersection, because in 20 years, regardless of any access management plans, any land road plans, that intersection will fail, and it'll just take you forever to get through that intersection. So that's why we began the Study. The area is generally within the area defined as the Northway, Sweet Road to the north, Country Club Road on the east, the City line on the south, and the project area includes about 660 acres of land. Okay. Here we have Exit 19, and here's the intersection of 254 and Route 9. It just became easier to look at this as a great circle of land, and we call this Quadrant One, this Quadrant Two, this Quadrant Three, notice, this is the Quadrant with Aviation Mall. This is the Quadrant with the Queensbury Plaza. We have Quadrant Four with the Northway Plaza, then the Cemetery behind here. This is Quadrant One. It has the Greenway North housing development. We have Robert Gardens over here, and this is Sweet Road, and this is Weeks Road. As I said, we were looking at all kinds of land use within the area, and trying to say, now that we're living in an area that's really growing, what is appropriate for the area? Should anything be changed, or should we just keep everything the way it is? The intersection of Routes 9 and 254 carry 3,600 vehicles during the p.m. peak, and 45,000 vehicles per day. Route 9 and Quaker Road each carry more than 22,000 vehicles per day, and there are remarkable shifts in variation of the traffic, depending upon whether it's August, whether it's a shopping season, such as Christmas or Easter. In any event, this is a highly travelled intersection. The purpose of this plan was to develop a comprehensive transportation plan, and we're going to look at mechanisms to reduce congestion, integration of other means of transportation. We're going to look at land use planning. We're going to look at managing access points along certain highways, and improving traffic control efficiency. The intersection of 9 and 254 operates at Level of Service D. Now, Level of Service is a very hard term to get hold of, but it kind of operates exactly like the ma r k sin s c h 0 0 I . I f you can got h r 0 ugh ani n t e r s e c t ion, you can go along the corridor of highway at the speed at which it was designed, and wi th as many cars as it was designed for, then it operates at Level of Service A. If you begin to get a slight amount of congestion, it operates at Level of Service B, and so on to Level of Service D, which is about the maximum that DOT will allow an intersection or a section of highway to deteriorate to, if they can help it in any way. Routes 9 and 254 now operates at Level of Service D. In five years, it will go to E. If a major store like Wal Mart comes in, it will go to F, and F being a failing, and anything after that is just gridlock, and that's what we're trying to eliminate in the area. The overall analysis of this shows that the alternative corridors around 9 and 254 can have the potential to reduce traffic by significant numbers. It is projected that if the three alternatives were to be constructed, traffic at the intersection could be reduced by approximately 21 percent. So lets go look at some of those alternatives. This is Route 9. This is Sweet Road, and this is the existing Weeks Road. Now, I have gotten letters in my office from people telling me that it's almost impossible to get out onto Weeks Road here, and to turn north, and they want the Town to do something about it. They'd really like to have a signal there. The Department of Transportation doesn't like the thought of having a signal here and a signal there, and so the concept here is to align Sweet Road with a new little connector that goes just north of this car wash, and realign Weeks Road, and then we'd have a signal up here at this point. These are concepts. We're very interested in what YQQ have to say about all these concepts. Weeks Road then becomes a cul-de- sac, because it, in turn, serves the car wash, and the Chinese restaurant that's located right here. The area that we're talking about is this area right in here. The road, the improvement and the construction that would do the most to relieve the traffic at Routes 9 and 254, which are over here. This is Route 9 coming here. This is 254 coming up to meet at this traffic signal, is a - 2 - "-' o '-'- -----,/ two to thr ee I ane road go i ng from the entrance to the Gr eenway North, here. This is the old Greenway North Road. This is Old Aviation Road which now, you used to be able to go through McDonalds over here, but you can't do that anymore. So, what we propose is a 900 foot road which will go from the signal, we have Friendlys on the other side, Greenway North here, coming over here, and meeting the signal on Route 9. This will have a bicycle/pedestrian lane on it, and a new intersection will be built, coming in here to Old Aviation Road, to serve this area, the Gr eenway Nor th up her e. Along her e, we have shown a propos ed service road. Right now, this area here is all zoned residential. Jim's going to talk about the Town perspective on this, but the proposal is that access to this area will be off of this proposed service road when it gets built. This road up here, the Department of Transportation has set aside funding for this, if it is a desire of the Town of Queensbury to build this road. We call that the Greenway North connector. The next suggestion that was made by our consultant is a road known as the Foster Avenue Extension, and it is this road. Here we have Aviation Road. This is the driveway into Aviation Road, and the proposal is to continue down the hill, on the other side, and come through, in some way, the area that is, this area back in here is not part of the cross country ski trails, and it would then come around and meet Foster Avenue. Here we have 254, the driveway into Aviation Mall, it's connection, I believe this is Fays Drugs. So the Grand Union would be down here somewhere, and Burger King is up here, and this is Foster Avenue in here. All right. In Quadrant Three, our proposal is not so much any construction in this area, except we'd like to improve LaFayette Street, and put a bikeway along it. I notice that there's a pond over here. This gets a lot of recreational traffic. The whole focus of this is to make pedestrian traffic and bicycle traffic and recreation travel for children easier and safer, and to encourage people to actually use those modes of traffic. Quadrant Four is a dream. One of the things that all Metropolitan Planning Organizations across the United States, that's all areas of 50,000 or more, are required to do is to develop, some time later this year, a 20 year plan, and one of the things we ask our consultant to do is to come up with ideas that could be implemented 20, 25, or 30 years from now, and this was his suggestion, to actually, at some time in the future, build a road behind the cemetery and eventually come up and meet Sweet Road, and then come out at Route 9 at the light. Essentially, what you're having here now is a way to bypass the intersection of Route 9 and 254 on streets that will take you to the many commercial activities in this area, and it is the hope of many good planners that when you actually condense commercial activity in one area, that you improve circulation, you improve shopp ing oppor tuni ties, you improve the des i rabi I i ty of this area, and still make traffic flowing through the area, and not making it an area that discourages people from using the commercial and recreational opportunities that exist in the area. MR. MARTIN-Okay. I'm Jim Martin. I'm Director of the Planning Department here in the Town, and it was illY input into this to try and speak to the Town interests in this plan, and I like, as a Community Planner, someone who has to live in this community and work here every day, I want to make sure that this is something that can be in keeping wi th the character of the communi ty, and what is, in the ..l...Qn&. term, in its best interest, and I think transportation planning in this area of the Town is probably the most pressing concern at this time. This is a very crucial area of the Town. We derive a lot of sales tax revenue out of this Town, and it serves, really, as our corrnnercial center, and so, therefore, it should be in a position where it can remain viable, but it's somewhat of a challenge, also, because we have some real concerns in here that we want to make sure that are addressed, and within the study area, principally one is the Greenway North neighborhood area. As anybody who's been in Town for a while will know, that this really was here first, and the Northway came along and really changed the whole character of this area forever. When the Northway came through, and the realignment of Aviation Road - 3 - -'--' -,-/ ¡ "'--~ --- " --- occurred, there wasn't time, until this area, this intersection exploded with conunercial development, and since that time, in keeping with development patterns that you see in most areas of the Country, development is occurring, obviously, along our major routes, and this area was locked up, so to speak. So, to maintain this as a viable neighborhood area, which I think is worthy to do, in light of this commercial development that's_ occurred, and our traffic problem, is a challenge, and great efforts were made, with the design of these improvements, to try and maintain this as a viable neighborhood area, in the context in which it has to exist, and I'll point to the Greenway North connector design, and there's some elements I think that should be brought out in that, that are very key. You have Old Aviation Road here, and the Greenway North. This area here is a specifically designed in buffer area, and if you read the details of the plan, call for this to remain as a naturally vegetated area, and also to beef up that vegetation with new plantings to totally screen and shield this neighborhood area from this traffic. So I think that's a key design feature. The other area that's a tough area is right here on Birch Lane. There are some well established, long time residents of the Town, there, and they, quite frankly, like their lifestyle. As you can see, there's a pool here, and I don't think anything should be done to force them out of there. However, and if anybody's been to these meetings before, you've heard me say, they're really in a bind, in that, if they want to, some day, get a return out of their property, as residential property, they're not going to get the value out of that, that they might elsewhere in a true residential neighborhood area, because of their proximity to the traffic and the commercial development. So, therefore, I think, as an option, they should have available to them the option of commercial zoning in this area, and then should that commercial zoning occur, then as that development occurs, this road can be installed with a commercial development, not just to slap this road down in the center of a neighborhood area. So, this is planning, but I think it's planning with some logic, and some rationale, and, quite frankly, some care for the people who are going to be directly effected by development as it occurs. So that's a key feature I wanted to point out, in how this road was set in here, and the design of it. The other thing that we wanted to make sure of that came out of this plan is, I really didn't want to be associated with a plan that wasn't realistic, and could be applied in the real world, and the other thing I wanted to make sure of is that we leave our, we have a product here, an end product, and have our Planning Board in a position where they can now, instead of reacting to developers as they come into this area, in reacting to their traffic studies, they're in a position, now, to have some knowledge of the area and the various improvements which might be appropriate, as development occurs, and what I think is key in this plan, especially, and I hope people take time to read it, is the access management plan. Access Management, according to the Study, can have an effect of reducing capacity by 30 percent. So just by eliminating some curb cuts, like in this one graphic here, you'll see McDonalds has three curb cuts for a restaurant of approximately 4,000 square feet. I think that's excessive. So, we're beginning to see, of late, second generation development already occurring within this Study area. Case in point would be the Olive Garden building onto the end of Queensbury Plaza, Wal Mart tearing down the Ames Plaza to build a new store. The Carvel building being torn down for a new Taco Bell, and I think we're going to see more and more of this, and as these developments come back in for a second look, so to speak, our Planning Board should be in a position to deal with these things in a knowledgeable way, and I hope that that's what this Study will give them, because that was the intent. So, we're trying to be proactive here, and take a very difficult situation and turn it around and put the Town in a position where we can say, okay development, as you come into this area, which is our commercial core, it's a very viable, very attractive retail center. Here's what you need to do if you expect to develop here. This is our access management. This is what we're expecting. So from this point forward, you now know the ( Î - 4 - ~ J ¡,_ í "---' \.-/ rules of the game, and I think that's important to have in place as we attempt to deal with this development in this area. Now, in terms of the Quadrant Two, the Foster Avenue Extension here, that's another one that has to be set in there with some care, because there is a residential neighborhood area here through zoning. It's an MR-5 designation, and even though it's commercially zoned, Foster Avenue, to a large extent, remains residential. So I know you see some things here that show roads going through structures and that type of thing, but again, from illY standpoint, I'd like to see those things put in place as it can occur, with some attention and care for the existing situation and the existing owners. I'm not looking to throw people out of their houses, but I just want the Town to be in a position, should the developer come along and have purchased that property, say in that area, and take advantage of that commercial zoning, we now have an improvement that needs to be put in place to deal with the resulting traffic that's going to occur from that. So, we try and reverse the situation here where, right now, up until this point, the Town has been in the position where we're reacting to developers. They're dictating the game to us through their traffic studies, because I had somebody tell me once, that traffic engineering is less of a science. It's more of an art, and a traffic engineer is like a hired gun. He'll tell you what you want to know, but I think now we're in a position, with this Study being done, that the Planning Board, who will all get copies of this, can now be in a position to be knowledgeable about the situation in this area, and know where to go with this information. Another thing I wanted to mention is, we had some alternatives that were looked at, that were asked for. Some were scrapped, and some are shown here tonight. One was a connecting road coming from the south up into Aviation Road at this point. Some preliminary pencil drawings were done of that, and it was scrapped due to its potential impact on Crandall Park coming up through what is now really a conservation area. The other things that were looked at, specifically requested, were alternative designs for the intersection itself, rather than getting into these construction of new roads. What we have here is a rendering of an elevated highway, and then this here is a rendering of a clover leaf design for the intersection. The hashed areas, indicate the neces sary ar eas needed for pr oper ty to s er vice thes e types 0 f development, and as you can see, especially with the clover leaf design, you get into some major takings, to the point, like in this case, the Mall becomes frontage property. So, that was done, and I think some preliminary cost estimates were even derived out of the DOT Staff, and Joanna may be able to speak to those. I think it was in the neighborhood of several million dollars. MS. BRUNSO-Well, our recent experience with elevated structures, that's what they call a bridge, an elevated structure, is that most of them are costing in the neighborhood of eight million dollars. So just for this bridge alone, we end up with eight million dollars, and the ramps, and this is not a very viable plan, because this has been drawn too tight. The Federal Government will not allow you to build a clover leaf that won't allow you to go at least 35 miles an hour, preferable 45 miles an hour. So that, in turn, would spread out the area that would necessarily be taken for an intersection like this. Once you look at how this impacts all the properties around the intersections of 9 and 254, you realize that it would be a very expensive design or alternative, and really has just outside the limits of anything that we could or should see at this intersection, at this area. This is a diamond point intersection. What happens is that you're coming off, away from Aviation Mall. You come over here. There'll be a signal there, a signal there, a signal there, and a signal there. That doesn't work as well, but it also, it takes a lot of property. It certainly would alleviate some of the traffic problems in the area, but it would be, it would really change the character of the Town of Queensbury. It's not a realistic alternative. We have an awful lot of data. There's our report over there. That's one report. You have four volumes. We just got it at 6:30 tonight. We've had pieces of it all along, and so we feel that we're knowledgeable - 5 - '--' '-../ "- "'--' -----' , --./ enough to answer some of your questions. KEN NOBLE MR. NOBLE-I'm Ken Noble. Where's the traffic coming from that's going to make this intersection grow? What's the Study say? MS. BRUNSO-It's the growth in traffic in the Town of Queensbury, due to the developments along Carvel bui Iding, now you're Blockbuster Video, and a Bank, starts in the Town. Route 9, the increase, instead of a going to have a Taco Bell and a and you have over 2,000 new housing MR. NOBLE-West, not east. MS. BRUNSO-East. You have an awful lot of new developments. MR. NOBLE-But coming from? Queensbury? intersection? you don't know, the traffic, I Is it coming from the Northway? Where is the traffic coming mean, where is it Is it coming from from, tot hat MS. BRUNSO-Well, a lot of it is coming from the Northway. A lot of it is coming from west of the Northway. There are a lot of new housing developments. As I believe, there are over 2200 building lots that are approved that haven't been built on. Coming to the north, you have a very attractive shopping area known as the Million Dollar Half Mile. Cars come in there from everywhere, and a lot come from Canada. When Wal Mart goes in on Route 9, and when K-Mart, the Super K-Mart is opened, over on the corner of 254 and Dix Avenue, you're going to see an increase of traffic there that we have a good estimate of the traffic increases, due to the Wal Mart, but the K-Mart is beyond the, the traffic study of that doesn't carryover as far as the intersection of 9 and 254, and yet we know that there will be an impact. MR. MARTIN-I think, to further address that question, I don't know that the Study is in a great position to deal with the origin of that traffic. I think the Transportation Council is trying to get itself in a position to better deal with that question. Right now, in the upcoming year, the Council is funded an origin and destination study within the entire area, to try and get a handle on, where is traffic coming in to the tri-county region, so to speak. MR. NOBLE-What's the expansion of the bridge at Exit 19 going to do to that traffic, the flow of traffic? MS. BRUNSO-The expansion of the bridge, in and of itself, won't generate more traffic. MR. NOBLE-It will generate less traffic, right? MS. BRUNSO-Well, it won't generate, the object of Aviation Road over the Northway is to reduce congestion at that point. MR. NOBLE-How do you know, if that gets done, it's goi ng to alleviate the problem at the intersection? My point is, there's an awful lot of money being spent on this project, no matter what you do. How do you know our tax payer dollars have been used, whether they're State or Town dollars that have been spent to do these processes, and you don't know how much the increase in traffic is going to be, and you don't know what increasing the land and the bridge is going to do to that traffic flow. Okay. Now it's going from a small to a bigger. That's going to make a bottleneck, obviously. If it goes from a bigger to a smaller, or to the same, you don't know if that's going to handle the traffic in a better means. MR. MARTIN-If anything, the Study does know the growth rate. The - 6 - '---- .......¡ \..j. '-~ growth rate in the area has been two percent, and if that cont i nues, which I expect it wi 11, given the growth that we see now, even under construction, the Mall expansion, Mount Royal, the recent revitalization, so to speak, of the Queensbury Plaza, I think you're going to see that continue, if not exceed it. MR. NOBLE-How many tenants does the Mount Royal have now? MR. MARTIN-I don't know. You'd have to ask the developer, but with the building in place, you only have to assume at some point in the future it's going to be occupied. The other thing about the bridge is I think the effect of the bridge, if anything, is going to have a negative impact on the intersection. It's only going to get traffic through that much easier, and now down through to the old stand bottleneck that we have there now. Traffic is going to move through there easier and get there quicker. MR. NOBLE-But the Study doesn't prove that. MR. MARTIN-Well, we can't assess the impact of that bridge without it being in place yet. MR. NOBLE-Right. That's what I'm saying. MR. MARTIN-I think, if anything, it's only going to have a negative impact. MR. NOBLE-The Study, that's what we're basing all this stuff on. MS. BRUNSO-No. MR. MARTIN-No. We're basing it on a two percent growth rate that as it continues, is going to show failure at that intersection within five years. MS. BRUNSO-Right now, the most attractive place for commercial activity to settle is along Route 9, and along Route 254, but that's only going to increase in the future, and one of the things that we'd like to do is to bring this in a tight area around 9 and 254 to the extent possible, to make it a very attractive place for people to shop. That increases the tax base, but it also increases the congestion in the area. MR. NOBLE-How about an exit between 20 and 19? MS. BRUNSO-Well, it was suggested to me today. MR. NOBLE-But that wasn't part of the Study, though? MS. BRUNSO-Well, one of the things we're going to do, after we get our long range plan written, is we're going to be looking for another exit, because no matter what we do here, it is going to get more congested. I saw an article recently that indicated that Queensbury's the third fastest growing area, certainly in the overall Capital District, and probably in upstate New York. Do you want to put up a sign and tell the people to go away? MR. NOBLE-That's not my point. MS. BRUNSO-No, I understand. MR. NOBLE-I don't want to spend unnecessary money. MS. BRUNSO-Yes, well, I think we have to try to grapple with real problems before they exist, problems we can see coming, and it certainly takes a long time to get a highway built. DANIEL OLSEN MR. OLSEN-Daniel Olsen. happen to live in that Greenway North, - 7 - '-..- ,-.../ -' ----- ''"-'' Carlton Drive Subdivision. I'm a resident, not a business person. If you started construction tomorrow morning, or had the go ahead tomorrow, when would things start to go? How many years, five or ten years before anything can be done? MS. BRUNSO-No. We're looking at more like four. MR. OLSEN-If you had the go ahead from the Town, the Federal, State Governments, starting right tonight, when do you think construction would start? MS. BRUNSO-1998, probably. If everything in place, it would take that long, because we would have to do, we can't do this without a lot of various studies. One is a noise impact study. Another is an environmental analysis. MR. OLSEN-Have you built into your plan the growth of traffic that's going to happen between now and the time (lost word)? MS. BRUNSO-Yes, we have. MR. OLSEN-As a planner, with a K-Mart store going in on Quaker Road, and I sat at a couple of meetings here, K-Mart, when they made pr es enta t ions, and they expec t ed 25 to 30 per cen t 0 f the business out of Warren County and the Town of Queensbury. They expected the balance of their business out of Washington County and Vermont. Do you think those people are going to move on into Queensbury, when they get done with K-Mart? Do you think there's going to be a shift in growth, with construction, and traffic going another way on Quaker Road, take it away from this intersection? MS. BRUNSO-Yes. Have you ever seen, Wal Mart has a sale. The next thing you know, Caldor has a sale. The next thing you know, K-Mart has a sale, and people are going between the shops looking for the best value. I've done that myself, although I hate to admit it. MR. OLSEN-But as a resident, my neighbors that live on that street with me, on Carlton Drive, if we have to get out of that street, especially if you want to take a left and go east on Aviation Road, many times, including myself, you have to go west, across that br idge and the Northway, and go to Queensbury School and turn around and come back down. You cannot get across that road, and there's lots of seniors that live in that Subdivision. I think you've got some ideas there that look pretty positive. Thank you. NICK CAIMANO MR. CAIMANO-Nick Caimano. I live west of the Northway. Now, the idea is to relieve the congestion at Route 9 and 254. That's the idea, right? With this, the traffic coming from Glens Falls and turning on to Aviation Road, the traffic coming from Quaker Road, the traffic is already on Route 9, coming south and turning west on Aviation Road. None of that is going to be effected by this. The only thing you've done is shift whatever traffic wants to go beyond Kenny's place onto a new road, and we've spent a lot of money, and I heard what you said about those two alternatives, and I certainly believe you on that lower one. In the winter time, those clover leafs would be impossible, but I don't know about the other one, because that kind, maybe not that one, but that kind of thing is what we're looking for. We're looking to move the traffic through the intersection of 9 and 254. We're not looking to displace it through Greenway North. We're not looking to displace it over to Mr. Rudnick's place. I think sometimes we lose track of what we're trying to do, and what we're trying to do is take an ever increasing volume of traffic, at one light, and move it better. One of the things that the upper portion of that map on the right does is that if you're going north on Route 9, you don't have to stop. You can keep right on going, it looks like right up to Noble's. You don't have to stop. The only people that have to stop are the people who choose to go left or right on Aviation or - 8 - '--~ ~ \..-- ._'.........,/ Quaker Road. When you start misplacing and displacing neighborhoods, just to move a portion, a fraction of that traffic, and don't forget, one of the things that's going to increase the traffic at 254 and 9 is K-Mart on the other end of Town, because people who don't live, who have to come by Northway to get to K- Mart, are going to get off at Exit 19, and go out 254 to K-Mart. There's going to be some amount of traffic that does that. So I guess I don't want you to lose track of what we're trying to do, and while it's nice to have bike paths, and it's nice to have foot paths, and it's nice to have all those things, what we're trying to do is move an ever increasing number of cars through the intersection of 254 and 9, that's what we're trying to do. MS. BRUNSO-I think we also have to be cognizant of the fact that one of the reasons why that intersection is coming close to the failure is that people want to turn at that intersection, and it is the turning movements that are making this fail, and we can't build that intersection large enough to be able to accommodate all those turning movements. So we'd have to look for some alternatives. MR. CAIMANO-Maybe the other exit that we've talked about, as Mr. Noble has said, maybe that's what you have to look for. Maybe the answer isn't here. Maybe 19a has to be the answer. MR. NOBLE-N i neteen A was planned many year sago. Why don't they use it as it was planned? Has it been forgotten? MS. BRUNSO-I think it has been. I've never heard of 19a. MEMBER OF PUBLIC MEMBER OF PUBLIC-I'm not from Queensbury. I'm from Warrensburg, and I've noticed these things in the paper quite a few months ago. I figure that either the traffic planners in this State, Department of Transportation, or any of those related to it are stuck in the mud. I mean by that, they're working the process of put more traffic lights in, try to divert a little bit of traffic, and really get nowhere. Now, many years ago, in the late 50's, early 60's, I lived down in New Jersey. I commuted to Lake George. My parents had a business there, most weekends in the summer. In the mid 50's, down in New Jersey, they installed a type of proverbial called, jug handles, no turns at major intersections. You either turn right, slightly before, a few of them were after the intersection, go into a side road, made your left or right turns, went through the traffic light on a left turn. You eliminate left turns, you increase the traffic in a traffic intersection tremendously. At first thought you say, well, how are you going to do this at 254 and Route 9. Well, this is a unique intersection. This has got the old intersection right there, make them one way. Immediately, you've eliminated half the left turns through oncoming traffic, then you need to make ways that people can U-Turn. Now another feature they have down in New Jersey, where anybody has been down there, on four lane roads, most of them that have been re-built, cement mall down the middle. You don't make left turns in the middle of blocks. It's a little annoying to go to the next U-turn, turn around and come back. I travelled repeatedly on Route 17 by Suffern. That time, it was a four lane road, ovals, traffic lights. It's now equivalent to a six lane super highway, with stores, houses, gas stations, you name it, on the sides, where there's heavy concentrations. There's even an extra lane you can slow down and pull off in, and I don't know why the traffic planners in New York State are stuck in the mud, add more traffic lights, try to twist around and get things going that way. Now, the Northway intersection, they're proposing widening it, the bridge. That'll just make this intersection worse. You improve this intersection, all the rest of them around will get worse. It's not just one improvement, it needs a whole bunch of them. The Nor t h way, you co u I dad d two mo r e ex its and en t ran c e s , i n illY opinion, on the northwest side of the intersection, making a little bit better clover leaf. The east side of the Northway is too - 9 - "-' .~ "'---' -' -.-r congested. I don't know whether you could make an entrance by the Howard Johnson's, but if not, people would then have to turn north if they were coming east on Aviation Road, would have to go around this oval and then take the right exit, or the few local residents would probably go up to Exit 20. It's debatable what would happen, but I've written up some of my ideas on a little paper that I can hand out to people. If there's a copy machine, people want more, they can have it, but eliminating all turns at the intersection is the key to getting traffic to flow better, and this, I feel, needs to be done where several along Quaker Road are shut off, the little ones like Glen Brook, Glenwood, Millbrook, stop them from being cross traffic, because every traffic light you hit slows things down, and if people don't believe me, well, I can name a few roads down in Jersey you can go down and see, if you care to drive it. There's one that I was annoyed at back in the early 60's, with traffic lights going through it, usually 10 o'clock at night, which is light traffic, but yet it was still stop/go, stop/go, stop/go, and that was old Route 1, south of the Garden State Parkway, to where Route 130 takes off, about 10 miles. I've been over it a couple of times lately, there's not bridges there, but I had no qualms about going through that road at a halfway decent pace, stopping every once in a while. So, I don't know what they've done to improve traffic, but I think the planners in this State ought to go down there and investigate what's going on in Jersey that's been put in for 40 years, and I haven't seen them take it out. So, apparently, it's working. If you want more information, I'll gladly tell you. Thank you. LIZ VALENTE MRS. VALENTE-I'm Liz Valente. I live on Sweet Road. I'm really happy to hear you' resay ing that you' r e concer ned abou t the ne i ghbor hoods, Jim. My mai n concern is Swee t and Country Club Road, and I just wanted to ask you, when you align Weeks with Sweet Road, with the light, which I can see the sensibility in that, are you projecting that there will be more cars running down Sweet Road than we presently have already? MR. MARTIN-I don't believe so. The main impact of that improvement will be for people exiting the Roberts Garden apartments. Right now, the left hand turn into the road that exists there now, right here, and getting out of there, even for a riRht hand turn on some days, is very difficult, and I think that'll be the main effect of that. I don't think you'll see much more through traff ic down Sweet Road. I think it'll be mostly an impact through an improvement of these people getting out of that intersection. MRS. VALENTE-All right. Well, my concern, obviously, is the fact that right now, I hate to say it, but it seems like you're trying tog e t, not ma y b e i n t his sit u a t ion, but its e ems I i key 0 u ' r e trying to get people away from the main roads and the arteries where I, as a citizen, would like to see them stay, because, quite frankly, every neighborhood, it seems, in Glens Falls and Queensbury, we're plagued by people cutting through, taking short cuts, trying to divert themselves from this area which, personally, I take. I don't find any problem with it. I don't see why they feel they have to come ripping down Country Club and hang a left on Sweet and up to Route 9, just to avoid that intersection. You have a right lane, a right turn there that flows very nicely with the stop sign that heads you north on Route 9. MR. MARTIN-Well, what's the name of the road that connects Glenwood and Country Club? MRS. VALENTE-Woodvale? MR. MARTIN-Woodvale. MRS. VALENTE-Woodvale is a problem, too, because of the way it's skewed. - 10 - ,<I "---- J \-ri -- ,---,I MR. MARTIN-Yes. It has been discussed in the discussions about actually implementing this new section here, doing that in concert with closing down Woodvale, because that, I think that would have a far greater impact on Y.QJlL concern over through traffic because what's happening is people are coming all the way from Quaker, up Bay, over Glenwood, down Woodvale, up Country Club, and over Sweet Road, to get to points north. MRS. VALENTE-Right, but it seems like you want to divert them off this main corridor, which I don't see why you would want to, because what I'm trying to say to you is the neighborhoods are getting bombarded. You know what happened in Glens Falls. It was just a couple of years ago a little girl got killed in an accident, was it on Fort Amherst or Garrison, and then everybody runs and throws stop signs up, because people are cutting through the neighborhoods all the time, and I'm always concerned with that. You know I'rn always up there screaming about everything that happens on Sweet and Country Club Roads, and of course, two years ago, I w 0 u I d a 1 sol i k e to say toy 0 u t hat i t ma k e s a b sol ute I y no sense, and this is my gripe with the Town of Queensbury, as well as Warren County. I won't get into New York State, because we have a bicycle path that presently crosses Sweet Road. We have a bicycle path on the Country Club Road. Two years ago, I wrote to my Councilwoman, and she, of course, passed it on, because they said Country Club was, I was addressing Country Club at the time, Country Club about the speed limit. We have a 45 mile an hour speed limit on the Country Club Road, and I'm concerned about, again, all these detouring through. You are courting disaster, I will say it again, if somebody does not sign and slow down the people on the Country Club Road and on the Sweet Road, which naturally dives down toward the Country Club Road and towards that bicycle path. Today I went on Round Pond Road, and there was more signage around that curb for golf carts and pedestrians to cross, and mean time, on the Country Club Road, we are inviting people, come, bring your children, ride our beautiful bicycle path, and you're allowing people to go 50 miles an hour, and the response that I get from DOT, or Warren County, excuse me, was, lowering the speed limit does not deter speeding, which I think is so full, because if that was the case, then why at a school do you have flashing lights and 25 miles or 15 miles an. hour? Everyone knows you go maybe for 10 miles higher than the speed limit, you know what I'm saying? And I would really like to know that if you're going to propose making any of these changes and diverting people through neighborhoods, that if you have to do that, and these peop I e have been I i v i ng ther e, and thes e ar e the i r homes, you should be trying to at least slow these people down, because it is really grossly unfair that we have to put up with these speed demons, I don't know where the fire is, but this is what's been happening. Okay, and please, Mr. Champagne, also Sweet Road, you should have more signage. You have a little bicycle there, and I see children stopping and people are coming down, 45 miles an hour, hitting that bicycle path. Come to my house. I'll supply the lemonade and the lawn chairs, and I'll give you an education one afternoon. Thank you. MR. MARTIN-Thank you, Liz. RUDY PAULSON MR. PAULSON- I'm Rudy Pau 1 son. I own Rober ts Garden Apar tments. Joanna, you said that you had some letters from residents that say they can't get out on Route 9. 1 don't have any letters, but I do have letters from residents that are telling me they're going to move if Weeks Road is realigned, particularly in that one building, Jim, right next to. MR. MARTIN-Yes, this one right here. MR. PAULSON-Right there. feet of that building. You're moving that right-of-way within 30 What ~ concerned about is when Wal Mart 1 1 -- ~ ........, ~ '-- -"' -" ........" comes in. 1'm concerned about people getting out onto Weeks Road, but when Wal Mart comes in, how much traffic from Wal Mart is going to dump out onto Weeks Road and then up to the red light, and also, I know Wal Mart's system. They take deliveries at night. Tractor trailers will be coming in there all night long, through that new al i gned road. I can see the inter s ec t i on of Sweet and Weeks getting aligned, but if you could put that Quadrant Map back up there again, where the proposed loop coming around Country Club Road, or whatever it is, in back of the cemetery? MR. MARTIN-This one here? MR. PAULSON-Yes, and then coming into Sweet Road, and then up to Weeks. I talked to you once before in your office that if that road is going to be proposed, maybe you could swing that over to Weeks Road, as it exists right now, and put the intersection right there, and leave Weeks Road alone. How far are you with this, anyway, as far as getting approval, starting construction? MR. MARTIN-Okay. The Weeks Road connection is shown here. This is one that has really progressed probably a little further than anything else here. We've gone out and surveyed the property necessary, needed for this, and we've identified how much would be needed from each individual property owner, I think as Mr. Paulson's aware, and we've also done further detailed study on the traffic here at this intersection with an assumption that Wal Mart's in place, using their trip generation figures and all that. We have submitted all that information to DOT Traffic and Safety down on Region One and we are expecting a response back from them anytime now, as to what they think of either one signal here or, apparently, there is some signal system that is available, signalization, that will allow a signal to be placed where it was originally called for, right here in front of the Queen Diner, and a second one here, that would be coordinated in some manner. They'll, essentially, act as one signal. MR. PAULSON-The last time I was in your office, you told me that that is not what you wanted, two signals that close together. MR. MARTIN-Well, I wasn't aware of this system that they're proposing. This is something that DOT, I guess, has used several times in the Capital District, and they've found that it works pretty well. MR. PAULSON-And then I also asked you, on the realignment of Weeks Road, if you could swing it further south, and move it away from the buildings. MR. MARTIN-Yes. See, this is just the conceptual rendering we have from the consul tant. Anything we can do to make the actual application of these improvements better for the property owner, we'll most certainly do that. If we can swing this further away like this, and have it dip more, away from this building, that can certainly be looked at. MR. PAULSON-Is Wal Mart going to be able to access onto Weeks Road, or do they have to go out through Route 9? MR. MARTIN-Even under the current plan, I think they were calling for a driveway through the rear of the building, right in through here, and they would go out Weeks Road, under the current plan, that's with Weeks Road in it's current configuration. MR. PAULSON-Well, that's where we're concerned, at night, with the delivery schedules. MR. MARTIN-Right. Now it certainly could be required of them to, I don't think they could do anything about, with their tractor trailers late at night, coming down and then going back into their parking lot, exiting out through their parking lot. That could - 12 - "f '-',¡ \,-./ ---...;' ""- ,--,I certainly be required of them. MR. PAULSON-All right, but this isn't done yet? going to talk to us? I mean, you're MR. MARTIN-No, not by any stretch of the imagination. MR. PAULSON-Okay. Thanks. ABE RUDNICK MR. RUDNICK-My name is Abe Rudnick, and I understand my attorney sent you a letter? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. RUDNICK-Now, may I propose, I want you to make this public. MR. MARTIN-I don't have it here with me. MR. RUDNICK-I've got a copy of the letter. MR. MARTIN-Sure. Do you want to read it into the record? MR. RUDNICK-Yes, I'll give it to you. MR. MARTIN-All right. We can do that. This is a letter dated June 8th, to myself, "Dear Mr. Martin and Ms. Brunso: This firm represents Abraham Rudnick and Queensbury Gardens, Inc. ("Rudnick Interests"), which owns a 40 acre tract located at the end of Foster Avenue in the Town of Queensbury ("the property"). Over the years the property has been the site of executive garden apartments and is zoned accordingly. Today, the surrounding properties are entirely zoned high density cormnercial. We suspect that this commercial development led the Town to request that we consider making a portion of our property available to build a road to alleviate existing traffic at the intersection of Route 9 and Aviation and Quaker Roads. After further discussions with the Town, we would request that you make the following offer before the publIc hearing on the Corridor Study: That, the Rudnick Interests, will offer to provide the Town, a right-of-way in perpetuity ("proposed road") over our property connecting Aviation Road at the east entrance (at traffic light) to Aviation Mall to the terminus of Rudley Drive which will complete the connection to Foster Avenue and Glen Street (see attached map) under the following terms and conditions: (1) That the Town pay us $ 1.00 for the land used for the intended right-of-way and that the Town build a road to accormnodate the expected traffic; (2) That because of the changed use of the property, that the Town rezones the property to the highest cormnercial zone and permit reuse of the existing apartments under said new zone; (4) That the town provide ingress and egress at all times during construction of the proposed road to residents of Queensbury Gardens apartments; (5) That the Town provide adequate curb cuts for cross streets to the proposed road to accommodate new development on the property. This offer will remain open to the Town of Queensbury until July 15th, 1994. LAW OFFICES OF MARVIN L. RUDNICK Marvin L. Rudnick, Esq." And that was copied to Fred Champagne and Abraham Rudnick. MR. RUDNICK-Thank you very much. MR. PAULSON-Jim, did you say it was impractical to go behind the Mall, and make a connection up to Route 9? MS. BRUNSO-Do you mean along the Northway? MR. PAULSON-Well, I was thinking of from the Northway, you could go off into Aviation if you wanted to, continue the road right onto Route 9 south, or 9 and 254. - 13 '-..,..- -.....-' "---- -... ,-~- MS. BRUNSO-We 11, I don 't th i nk you can go through ther e, becaus e those are the ski trails, and you have Crandall Park down there. MR. PAULSON-Is it that close? MS. BRUNSO-Yes, it's that close. MR. MARTIN-It adjoins the Mall property. MR. PAULSON-I didn't realize that. MR. MARTIN-Yes. JIM MATHIS MR. MATHIS-My name is Jim Mathis. If you would be implementing these, is it your intent to have these in a sequential order? mean, is there one going to be first, second, or third, the way you've been presenting them, or which is the primary one that you are driving to accomplish first, of these three plans? MR. MARTIN-I would say, of all that I s been proposed, from the Town's perspective, from looking to what seems to have the most benefit for what we can afford to do as a Town, would be this Weeks Road realignment. That's what the Town is looking at first. The time frame on that is a little fuzzy, still, depending on how negotiations go with the property owners, and how well it comes out with DOT with the signal. So that will probably be the first thing out of this Study that is done, and, again, this is conceptual. There are many things in this that could change, like the cul-de- sac. It could be that Weeks Road is left open, and connects right into the new proposed road there. There's many practical applications that may change these concepts a little bit. I would say next after that, if done as it stands today, would be the Greenway North connector funded by the State, but the earliest that could be available, given the availability of funding and the steps that have to be taken to secure that funding, we're probably five or six years away, at best, and anything beyond that is really a matter of planning, in planning, and would be, I think, contingent upon the development that occurs to pay for it. MR. MATHIS-In terms of implementation, this is a public hearing over the plan. What is the next step to make it reality? Does it need to go before the Town Board to have them approve it, or would it happen without any other jurisdictional approvals? MS. BRUNSO-It needs to go before the Town Board. The Greenway North connector is conceived at this point to be built with Federal funds. It would be built with surface transportation small urban money. It's probably, unless you know all the gradations of highway financing, that probably doesn't mean a lot, but there is, eighty percent of that money will be Federally funded. Twenty percent would have to come from the local municipality. So, that is something that would have to be approved by the Town Board, before we'd go ahead. Likewise, the service roads that have been mentioned, such as the Foster Avenue Extension, it's not envisioned that they would be built with Federal money at all. So that would be a question for the Town to accept, and to allow to happen. MR. MATHIS--But the Town has not yet approved even the Weeks Road project. Is that correct? MS. BRUNSO-I don't know about the Weeks Road project. I'm going to turn this over to Jim, because he knows the ins and outs in the Town. MR. MARTIN-The Town has budgeted and set aside money for that Weeks Road connection. It's currently in discussion right now, as to how that can occur, you know, what are the costs associated with the property acquisition? What are the costs associated with design? -1'1- . r v ,--. "-..I. "'~~I What are the costs associated with construction? That's all being looked at right now. Depending on how the negotiations proceed with the property owners will determine whether that is done or not, and how soon. MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC-You said earlier that Wal Mart was going to speed up the process of this intersection failing. Has any discussion been made with them to help out with the Weeks Road? MR. MARTIN-I, quite frankly, asked the Director of Eastern Real Estate for Wal Mart if he would pay for that road, or a portion of it, and he bluntly said no, quickly said no, but at least we asked. Had the Planning Staff and the Planning Board known then what they know now, in review of that Site Plan, it certainly would have been Staff's recommendation to have that done part and parcel with Site Plan approval, but the timing was off, and it just simply was not in place at the time that Site Plan was approved, or it would have been something from the Department's standpoint we would have pushed for. AL LANFEAR MR. LANFEAR-My name is Al Lanfear, and I live on Birch Lane. Would you explain to me the intersection where your detour comes out on 254, what that island is in there? MR. MARTIN-This here? MR. LANFEAR-That's correct. MR. MARTIN-This was a design element put in by the consultant that he was, they were thinking that a right hand turn in and right hand out only would be an appropriate way to treat that intersection. MR. LANFEAR-Now what have you accomplished for Greenway North when you do that? MR. MARTIN-This really is not meant to accomplish anything for Greenway North. This is meant to act as a way to access to the rear, rather than greeting curb cuts along the road here, or further curb cuts along the road here, hopefully eliminate some, to allow rear access into these properties, should they develop, and then the need for this road would become evident, MR. LANFEAR-I'm going to tell you now, don't need any rear end access, not of that nature, and I don't see what you're accomplishing by putting an island down there, for anybody else, if all you can do is go uphill, or come in from when you're going uphill. MR. MARTIN-This will a full access intersection here, and this would be the one. MR. LANFEAR-What's the width of that right-of-way? MR. MARTIN-That is 50 feet. MR. LANFEAR-This is between the two outside lines? . MR . MAR TIN - Yes, yes, bet wee nth e two hat c h e d I i n est her e . Yes. The road pavement there is shown approximately, I would say 25 to 30 feet, somewhere in there. MR. LANFEAR-Two lanes? MR. MARTIN-Yes, two lanes. with two lanes of traffic. This is three lanes, a center lane, MR. LANFEAR-Well, I businesses in there, don't see your point in and several residences, destroying several for the benefit of - 15 - ~ .~--- -- ~ ~. -'-- ,- -../ people on top of the hill who have their own problem. making me a problem to benefit them. You're MR. MARTIN-Well, if you don't want this, then this road doesn't happen. I said that earlier. MR. LANFEAR-Well, as far as I'm concerned, you can de I ete tha t section there, right at the minute. MR. MARTIN-That's fine. MR. LANFEAR-Good. Thanks. FRED TROELSTRA MR. TROELSTRA-My name is Fred Troelstra, one of the partners at the Silo. Jim, I stepped in late. I don't know if you had discussed the impacts of the Route 254 and 1-87 revisions that are going to be occurring. MR. MARTIN-The widening of Exit 19 interchange? MR. TROELSTRA-Correct. MR. MARTIN-That is a separate project, away from this Study. That's being done directly and completely by the State. MR. TROELSTRA-Yes, what's the timing, though? If this is in conjunction with that, I think we're going to create such a chaotic sense there that nobody will want to get off there. MS. BRUNSO-Well, there was a lot of requests that, indeed, could we do Exi t 19 and the Greenway North connector at the same time. Actually, the answer is, no, they're two separate projects. They both need their own authorization. Exit 19 is in the works. It is expected that the planning work will be done by the fall of this year, that the designs will be available by the spring of next year, and that the contract wi II be let in the fall of 1997. That's current planning. What will happen is Federal requirements are that the bridge has to be raised two and a half feet. That's part of our defense strategy to allow the missiles to be able to go underneath the bridge, and any time you reconstruct a bridge, you have to raise it two and a half feet, unless it already is at that height. What they will do then is build half of it, move the traffic over onto the one half, build the other half, and then open the whole bridge. MR. TROELSTRA-I realize all that, but still, what is the timing, then, on this particular project? Is it going to be in conjunction with that? MS. BRUNSO-It will be after that. MR. TROELSTRA-It will be after that. MS. BRUNSO-Yes. MR. MARTIN-The bridge probably actually will begin construction about four years from now. We should have, meaning the public and the Town at large, should have some view as to what the design of that bridge is next spring. MR. TROELSTRA-Okay. Realizing, of course, that that's going to be a major impact on traffic at that particular proximity, and I envision people being channeled to Exit 20, and Exit 18, of course, and any of the other corridors that go over 1-87. A separate question. Has the Carlton/June Drive connection over to the new Wal Mart been nixed? I think, hadn't that come up at one time? MS. BRUNSO-Yes, it did come up. - 16 :- '" . I ~ ~ '-..,/ - ",-",I MR. MARTIN-There it is shown there. This is Weeks Road here. This is Roberts Garden South. Here's the back of Ames Plaza. Here's June Drive here. This has also received mixed reviews from the neighborhood at large, so to speak, and, I shouldn't say mixed. Most of them have been negative, against it. The concern is that it's going to create through traffic and another alternate means to get through to, over to points west, or to the Mall, or what have you. That may very well happen. It would be illY suggestion that if this were to really be pursued, certainly it needs further study. My only concern for this neighborhood is that right now we essentially have one really useful way to get in and out of that neighborhood, and in the event of an emergency situation, I don't know that that's the best situation, and this would alleviate that, but beyond that, that very well may happen that this would become a two way through, cut through type of a situation and negatively impact the neighborhood, and, therefore, I'd be opposed to it, but there is that one concern about the emergency access. It would help to alleviate, and that's really where that stands. It's in the report, but I don't know that it's a real hot item, so to speak. MR. TROELSTRA-Okay. Thank you. MS. BRUNSO-I think that the one thing you can say about this report is that it's a plan for the future, if the Town of Queensbury wants to adopt it, and if you have a plan, not all of it has to be built, not any of it has to be bui 1 t. I t was done wi th the best of intentions of trying to move the traffic through the area, and try to provide a greater capacity in the area for the traffic that is growing here. One of the things that we notice when we try to do any improvements to the highways is that there are residences and businesses along the highway that were built without any thought of their ever being any growth in traffic or capacity or width of the road, and here you are with a growing neighborhood, a requirement for additional capacity on the highways, and existing buildings that will all be impacted by the growth, the congestion, and the improvements. MR. MARTIN-Anyone else? Anyone else at all? We'll be around afterwards if anybody wants to informally talk or take a closer look. My office is always open if someone wants to come in. I make any materials available I have. If there's no one else, thank you very much for coming. Meeting was ended. -. 17 -