Loading...
1994-10-18 ------------- -.--- QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING FIRST REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 18, 1994 INDEX site Plan No. 63-93 Request for Extension Car Essentials 1. Site Plan No. 28-94 Leonardo Lombardo 2. Site Plan No. 32-94 Barrett Auto Sales, Inc. 13. Subdivision No. 7-1994 FINAL STAGE Daniel Barber 22. Subdivision No. 6-85 FINAL STAGE - Modification Dixon Heights, Phase II 27. Site Plan No. 33-94 Craig Seeley, Charles Seeley, Glenn Batease 29. Discussion Item - Map submitted by Dave Kenny - Route 9 Mall 46. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID I'll NUTES . ENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING ST REGULAR MEETING OBER 18, 1994 o P.M. BERS PRESENT TI 10THY BREI,..JEF<, CHAIRMAN CATHERINE LABOMBARD JAMES OBEF<I'1AYER ROCiEF~ RUEL FWBERT P~~LI \ C CRA I G l"iACEW,:¡N ECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN ANNER-SCOTT HARLICKER ANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER WN ENGINEER-RIST-FROST. BILL MACNAMARA ENOCiRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI ~9J,,,,VI I OJ;l~ FOR ONE YEAR (APPROVED EXTENSION OF SITE PLAN NO. 63-93, 12/21/93) WHICH EXPIRES ON DECEMBER CAR 21, BREWER-Any kind of a letter or anything for this, Jim? M'. MARTIN-They did submit a letter requesting it, and they're w)rking their problems out with Army Corp of Engineers. I think t ey're just being prudent and planning early to get it extended. . BREWER-Okay. So they want an extension through '95? MARTIN-I'd say six months would be sufficient. BREWER-Okay. So we'll say June. M~. MARTIN-If you do the end of the month it makes it good, bcause that way. easy for me to keep track of. M~. BREWER-June 30, 1995. Does somebody want to offer that? ~ JJOl:LJO__EXTEND SITE PLl~~ NQ",,,,_6~.:-91L__F08._ SIX MONTHS TO JUNE 30, 1 9.§, Intr"oduced by Roge," Ruel who moved for its adoption, s~conded by Craig MacEwan: Dlly adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following \/ te: A'ES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, M". Paling, Mr. Brewer 1',4 JES: \ 0 1'-1 E A3SENT: Mr. Stark M~. BREWER-Okay. The first item on the Agenda, Old Business, B' rrett Auto Sales, Inc. D;NIEL BARBEF~ - 1 - MR. BARBER-Mr. Chairman, Charlie Scudder, who has done our engineering here, which, Bill's looking for the drainage, is not here yet. He'll be here in a minute. MR. BREWER-Okay. We'll just go to the next one, then. Is that all right, Dan? MR. BARBER-Thank you. MR. BREWER-We'll come back to yOU when he gets here. Okay. OLD BUSINESS: SITE PLAN NO. 28-94 TYPE: UNLISTED LEONARDO LOMBARDO OWNER: LEONARDO & CALLIOPY LOMBARDO ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: NORTH OF RT. 9 - WEST SIDE OF RT.9 AT LAKE GEORGE TOWN LINE. FOR ADDITION AND ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING RETAIL STORE. ALSO, CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW BUILDING FOR FUTURE RETAIL STORES. BEAUTIFICATION COMM. - 9/12/94 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING - 9/14/94 TAX MAP NO. 33-1-10, 11, 13 LOT SIZE: 3,851 ACRES SECTION: 179-23 RON RUCINSKI, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. RUCINSKI-Good evening. I'm Ron Rucinski. I'm representing Leondaro Lombardo. Since we were here in September, the Board has, or at least some members of the Board, were on a field trip to the site, and since that time, we have also explored what else we might be able to do to accommodate the Board's wishes and reduce the number of curb cuts on the site. The plan that's sitting there in front of you at the moment is exactly what you've seen before. As part of our evaluation of the site, one of our concerns had been loading and unloading at the proposed retail complex, and as I recall, I indicated to the Board that IrJe felt most loading and unloading would probably occur at the front of the building, as it does now, but the option would also be there to do that loading and unloading at the rear of the site, so long as we didn't involve tractor trailers. If we were going to involve tractor trailers, we felt we needed access here and here, so that a truck could get in and out, where a tractor trailer would have a difficult time making a turn through here to use one or the other of those curb cuts. I indicated to the Board that we did not think that there would ever be tractor trailer deliveries. Certainly that hasn't been the experience at the present retail establishment, or its predecessors. On the strength of that, our client has agreed that we could eliminate one of these curb cuts, and after discussions with the Board and with the Staff, we've agreed that we could eliminate the southernmost curb cut. We would like the ability to revaluate that when we are ready to put the additional retail space on the north side of the property, or the north side of the existing shops, as to whether we should continue to use this curb cut or this one, but in any case, we would be able to reduce those to one curb cut now, and agree that we would only use one of them in the future, probably this one, definitely close this one down. Beyond that, we're still struggling with trying to find another way to eliminate a second curb cut, before the construction of the additional retail space. I've illustrated on here, and I've talked about this before, so I'll simplify it. I'm not going to go into all the gory detail I've gone to before, but I've illustrated in the brown outline the buildings that now exist on the site, the dark brown, the proposed, initial retail, and this heavy green line is the existing miniature golf course, and these blue splotches are where we have sewage disposal fields, or septic tanks and sewage disposal lines, which are the constraints that are the tail that's wagging our dog, so to speak. These are all givens that, at the moment, we can't do a heck of a lot about. I have illustrated, in the double red lines, turning movements for a 30 to 35 foot straight truck, not a tractor trailer, just a 30 to 35 foot straight truck, to give you a frame - 2 - ~ of reference. A UPS truck, I believe, is, the bigger UPS trucks a,e about 28 feet. So something in the neighborhood of 30 feet i", lets call it a standard delivery truck. They require an o tside turning radius of about 45 feet to make a comfortable tlrn, or what the t.extbook calls a "practical tUì-n", and I'\/e i, lustrated, with the double lines, how that might occur on the s'te. At this curb cut, that we're proposing to retain, turning fí]evements into 'the site, from the north, are doable. A turning m vement here is doable. A turning movement here is doable. A tlrning movement here and here, very doable, without interfering w th parked automobiles. When we get down to this end of this s te, where everything's already in place, we begin to experience d ,fficulties. A south bound truck, let me back up, at this end o the site, besides the access to Mr. and Mrs. Lombardo's r sidence, is the delivery entrance and service area for the r."staurant, the coolers, the delivery ent:.rance, the actual door, t e dry storage, everything occurs at this end of the building. s( that deliveries are made to that end of the building. A s uthbound truck can enter the site here, back in into here, e, ther at this location or this location, depending on how cars al e parked, and then re-exit the site and head north bound, or, c nversely, they can readily enter the site if they're north b und, and leave the site going south bound. There has been some dscussion of eliminating that curb cut and using this curb cut t perform that function. A north bound truck can enter the site a that point. There's no question about that. A south bound tuck, in order to enter the site at that location, would have to f llow this curb, or very close to it, and cannot make the turn w'thout hitting the building, forcing that vehicle to make part O' a turn, back up, and then go forward to get into the parking lJt. We think that's inherently dangerous. He might not have to b,ck out back onto the highway, but if there are any following v/hicles trying to enter the site at the same time, they could v~ry well have to stop out in traffic and might have to stop s ddenly out in traffic, but even if it's Just slow down, it c-eates a hazardous condition. BREWER-Okay. Excuse me one second. in to the parking lot in front of the straight to it, or, actually, pull in. Couldn't that vehicle restaurant and then RUCINSKI-This is a south bound truck. M . BREWER-That's right. Take a right into the parking lot. M ') \ . RUCINSKI-Take a right up in here? M~. BREWER-No. Go in front of the golf course. RUCINSKI-Into here? BREWER-Yes, and then back straight In, rather than have to out into the road? M~. RUCINSKI-Yes, as long as t.here's not a car there. I'm coming t~) that. M::':. BREWER-Okay. M::':. RUCINSKI-But what you're saying is theoretically possible. Y~s. Again, it's a minor consideration, but a truck trying to e:it from this site has an almost, depending on which direction t1ey're coming from has almost, again, a U-turn, that would be interfered with by the building. The bottleneck, the worst of the bottleneck, occurs right here at the intersection of this d-iveway, and this driveway in front of the miniature golf. B~tween the fence of the miniature golf, here, and the corner of the building is 20 feet. The pavement in front of the miniature g_lf, here, is something in the neighborhood of 18 feet. It w)uld be possible to widen it a little bit without interfering - 3 - with the trees. The problem is, is we have a T-intersection with virtually no turning radii. In this corner of the miniature golf is the attendant's hut, or whatever you want to call it. It creates a blind corner and a square corner. Any vehicle using this driveway, when they get to this corner, doesn't see clearly anything that's happening over here, and in order to make a turn in any direction, here, has to make a wide turn. Conversely, any vehicle trying to corne this way and turn he'"e, has a blind spot and has to make a wide turn, or even if they're just crossing the intersection to continue on out, they're still forced to kind of stick their nose out before they can see what's going on. At the moment, restaurant traffic, customer traffic, and this is anecdotal. It's not a traffic study. The bulk of customer traffic comes from Lake George, enters the site here. If they can find a parking space out front, they park there. If they can't, they typically come to the back and park in the rear area, and that street is marked, or that driveway is marked as a one way driveway. Now, obviously, everybody doesn't use it one way, but we do have the customer traffic going through there. If we add to it a truck, or any kind of service vehicle trying to maneuver in this area, as soon as we've got a customer car, another truck, another something in there, we've got grid lock. There just isn't room for turning movements, and we can't really develop turning radii that are suitable for automobiles, much less trucks. So we're just, we're running the risk of creating congestion there, which could lead to an on-site accident, or just an on-site traffic jam, but if we get vehicles jammed up together in there, somebody's going to have to start backing up somewhere to clear the hole, and, again, if there are other vehicles trying to enter the site, we are going to have ourselves a real mess. MR. OBERMAYER-What does that have to do with the curb cuts, though? I don't get your point. MR. RUCINSKI-Well, what I'm getting at is that we, based on these turning movements, feel that we need both of these curb cuts for the time being, until we can remove the miniature golf. MRS. LABOMBARD-Ron, what about that nice parking have the nice pressure treated lumber built up, goes all the way to the right more. Isn't that restau'rant? I mean, that's a huge area. a,-ea ~",he"e you terr aced. It pa," ki ng fo," the MR. RUCINSKI-At the moment, that is used. It's used as overflow parking. It's used as employee parking. It's really not part of the handshake deal we have with, lets call it a handshake deal, that we have with the State, in terms of using their right-of- way. They don't seem to object to us using it. It doesn't solve. It would allow us, we could direct customer parking there and probably not have a problem with the State. It doesn't solve the problem of conflicting movement in this area. MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, if a car, all that parking's in the front, so if a car is south bound and they pull in, wouldn't they be more inclined to see out of the right corner of their eye all that parking on the north side, instead of going down into, around the miniature golf course, where they can't see the parking? MR. RUCINSKI-Yes. You're right. I wouldn't dispute that for a moment. The problem is that all we need is a guy coming from the tee-shirt shop to the restaurant, or now three retail stores, trying to drive up to the restaurant. He gets there at the same time the truck does, and, we're out of business. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, but having the additional curb cut, is going to complicate your problem more than take it mean, you're allowing traffic to flow in there from directions. If yOU would eliminate that middle one, I think, awa y . I different then you - 4 - '- wculdn't necessarily have a bottleneck there. MF. RUCINSKI-You're right, but when we eliminate that one, now w( ')"e fon::ing all traffic, all truck tì"affic, all othe," traffic, wt do have, we do bring a truck back here for trash removal. We d bring trucks back here for service and maintenance of the tile f"eld that the septic tanks are pumped out regularly, and that s rt of thing, and occasionally a service vehicle for miniature 91 If, whatever the case may be, or just a guy that gets in the s. te and wanders around, inadvertently. but we have the conflict hre. It gets compounded if we can't maneuver vehicles through t at curb cut. We're forcing traffic to take this torturous r ute, and they have no option, no place to go when they're b'ocked. MF.. BREWER-When you're coming out of the retail part of it, you k ep going right by that curb cut, and like you're forcing people t.u go out the, what would I say, the second most northern curb cut. You're ch"i\/ing right by that exit right there. You're diving by three to go to two, where I don't think that would be t e case. M RUCINSKI-We do find that people go to the store, or go to the m,niature golf, and then go to the restaurant, or go to the r staurant and then go to the miniature golf, and they drive i lternally, and we do get, we encourage restaurant parkers that a e parked in the back to exit going this way, and they may go Olt here. They may go out there. All I'm getting at is that W3've got some real congestion in here that gets compounded if we g t a truck down in here and he can't get out, except by staying i ')t,er na I . M~. PALING-You're saying that part of the problem has a lot to do w:th the golf course itself. M~. RUCINSKI-Absolutely. If I could cut the corner of that golf curse off, the whole problem would go away. M~. PALING-All right. Well, are you also saying that if we let YJU go with one less curb cut, as a temporary measure, that when y)U did away with the miniature golf course, you would design it s Jch that you could go to i:.\..)o_ c\Jì"b cuts? M~. RUCINSKI-Absolutely. Absolutely. Here is the same plan as t,at. I have now colored in the additional retail stores. When W3 build those retail stores, what is now 20 feet between the bJilding and the fence line, will become 50 feet. When we build tle retail, we take out this septic system out of the back here, wlich is complicating the turn here. So when I've done that, I've made thÜ3 an easy tun,.. I've made this. not an emsy tur n, bJt a little easie,". I've made? t.h,Üs a very doable t.urn. I still haven't cut down any of those nice pine trees. So now I can r!asonably easily move traffic throughout the site. I even have a1 opportunity, except for this turn, to begin to even get a tractor trailer around t.he site. It's still miserable down here f)r a tractor trailer, but it begins t.o work. It begins to work v,"ry well. M~. PALING-Well, you end up with two? M~. RUCINSKI-And then we could get along with two curb cuts. M~. PALING-And you would end up with curb cuts two and three? M<. RUCINSKI-One and t.hree. PALING-One and three. RUCINSKI-One and three. We still have the vehicle from here, that is either coming, problem of a that.'s coming - 5 - from the north bound, really has to be able to get in there, because even with these changes, he still can't make that U-turn, and I still, even in that scheme, I still think, if he pulls in here, and comes in here like this, and then has to back all the way back to here somewhere, I think we're just looking for an accident. We're begging for it. Backing around this corner he's going to have to come in so that his cab is up in here som~ place, and now he's got to back around this corner, turn at the same time, and he's doing it, at best, depending on his mirrors, at best depending on his mirrors. That still bothers me greatly. MR. BREWER-Something you could possibly even look at is, the whole stem of the problem is these pine trees here. I mean, if you got rid of the pine trees, yOU could form some kind of circulation pattern. Grant it, they look nice, but I think if yOU got rid of them and you landscaped, you could do, aesthetically, the same thing. MR. RUCINSKI-Under previous approvals, conditions of those approvals were to retain that green area, and particularly the pine trees, but we looked at that. MR. BREWER-You can trade off, I mean, from here over to here or over to here. you can move green space That's not a problem. MR. RUCINSKI-Yes, but we can't do that with 80 foot pine trees, but let me Just, we tried that. We were trying that as late as noon today. We have a couple of problems with that. One, most of the pine trees are actually in the right-of-way, so that we don't own them. We would need State permission to take them out, but, if we can get past that, what we looked at was building a connecting driveway across here. We have a NiMo power pole right here that also is a transformer pole, and it services this building, as well as the line along here. If we wanted to put a driveway right here, which would be a fairly clean straight path through the lots. We'd have to move that power pole. I haven't talked to Niagara Mohawk. My gut feeling is I've got a problem trying to move that power pole, because the State isn't going to want it closer to the pavement, and NiMo isn't going to want it closer to the trees, and that's without talking to NiMo. An alternative would be to bring that driveway, leaving the pole where it is, and running it through here, and that works. There are probably two trees that would have to be cut. This survey showing a tree down here at the bottom that doesn't exist. I don't know as it ever existed, but there are certainly two trees that would have to be cut. Now, the problem that's been identified with that is that an automobile, at night, in the parking lot, going that way, whether it's this route or this route, it doesn't make much difference, is directing his headlights at an automobile coming this way. MR. BREWER-Okay. There's a solution to that, too, because when we talked, you called me today and told me that. Headlights on a car are basically about two foot in height. Simple shrubs would take care of that. Wouldn't they, if you put some shrubbery along there, in front of the driveway? MR. RUCINSKI-Well, when we were on the Colonie Planning Board we tried that a couple of times. It wasn't very successful because the shrubbery died. There are a couple of problems with that. I hear where you're coming from, because I thought of trying to do something with some kind of divider material similar to what they use on some of the highways. We've got, this pavement's going to be very close to the existing median in any case, and, certainly, down at this end. So I'm not sure there is room to plant shrubbery, but secondly is that's right where the snow, the State piles the snow, and it would be almost sure to kill everything every year. MR. BREWER-Okay. - 6 - - -- - ..- ~' ~1r. RUCINSKI-I also, so many people a'(e driving pick up trucks ard stuff these days, with the high headlights, so that you've T'ally got to get higher than two foot, then you start running tIe risk of creating a visual problem for people exiting, that they can't see on coming traffic. M . MARTIN-We talked about that. He was in at t lat exists totally within the DOT right-of-way. t.\ need a work pe,-mit from them to do that, and ttey're going to allow traffic, like north bound w th sout.h bound traffic like that so close. t ley would permit that. I didn't talk to them, noon today, and So you're going I don't know if traffic aligning I don't know as but, . M . BREWER-There just seems s mewhere, and every time we P oblem with it, and that's e"e,'ybody els,? fe,?ls. to be, there has to be an answer come up with a suggestion, there's a the waY'Lfeel. I don't know hOI;J M\. RUCINSKI-I. personally, like that solution, even as a p' rmanent solution for this site, because it is, it's a nice d,rect route across the site, but it has those problems. If we cI'uld do that, it's easy to do, I mean, except for the p ssibility of moving the power pole, but even going around the p wer pole, it's not that impossible a thing to do, and it would a, low that exit to be closed immediately. I hear where the Staff i coming from with the headlight problem and the DOT problem. M~. PALING-Well, if we can go away, tonight, with the elimination O' one curb cut, conditional upon the next site plan review, and t1e elimination of the golf course, with the elimination of the s.cond curb cut, I think we've accomplished our major objective, a1d we're going to end up with two curb cuts, but we've got to w rd it somehow that that's the way it's going to be when this t1ing eventually, when the golf course is done away with. M~. RUCINSKI-I don't have any problem with you putting some w)rding in your motion that says when that retail store is built, t at curb cut is closed. PALING-And then you have two curb cuts. M. BREWER-Does that retail building come back for site plan aJain, correct? M~. RUCINSKI-It will for technical review. M~. MACNAMARA-It hasn't had any stormwater lssues associated with i:, and he's said he's going to relocate the septic with it. M~. BREWER-So it will have to come back for site plan review? M~. MARTIN-I would say yes. M~. RUCINSKI-Make that a condition of your motion. We don't have a,y problem with making that a condition of your motion that. we cme back. M~. MARTIN-I would say you only approve the one, first step, t night, and not take up the second one. M~. MACEWAN-But the application doesn't say it's a phased site plan. It says it's a site plan for everything tonight. M~. MARTIN-I believe it's, Mark, is it within the jurisdiction of t,e Board to only approve one aspect of it and reserve on the 1" "st? M~. SCHACHNER-Sure, especially with the applicant's consent, and I haven't seen the application, but if Mr. MacEwan's right, and I u ¡darstand his concern, if YOU were just to look at the - 7 - application and not hear the applicant's verbal representations, is the application also for the retail store? I'm. MARTIN-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-Yes. It's for additions and alterations to existing store. Also construction of a new building for future retail stO)- es . MR. SCHACHNER-But that's not really on the table, is what I'm understanding, currently? MR. BREWER-All right. Well, they're just showing where that building will be. There's no. MR. MARTIN-We don't have enough technical back up, the usual information we get. MR. SCHACHNER-Yes, and I be very carefully worded of any retail store at further site plan review think if there's any approval, it has to to make clear that this is not approval that location, that that's subject to dOv-H1 the road. MR. BREWER-Well, we have to be careful of that, because there's new retail that he is going to build now, and then he's showing fut,ure )-etai 1 . MR. PALING-Well, you can specify that as the retail that will take the place of the miniature golf course. MR. MACEWAN-What happens if he never does that, though? MR. PALING-Then he stays with what he's got. MR. SCHACHNER-And you never lose that second curb cut, from the way you're discussing it. MR. PALING-Yes, but at least we've lost one curb cut in doing it t.his way. MR. RUEL-We would limit it to how many curb cuts now, three? MR. PALING-Three. MR. RUEL-Shouldn't we somehow identify these curb cuts? MR. PALING-Yes. He's going to eliminate Number Four. MR. RUEL-All right. So we can grant some sort of. MR. RUCINSKI-I'll leave these colored drawings with you so that. you can do that kind of housekeeping. On this whole question of the approval of the retail, and the elimination of that second curb cut, we would like to go away knowing that, conceptually, we have agreement that. we could put that retail there if we eliminate that curb cut. So we don't have to do that battle all over again. MR. BREWER-Well, we can't say that, because we don't even know what that building is. I mean, we may not be here, and we can't put that onto another Board, just give you a blanket approval for a building we haven't seen or anything. MR. RUEL-What about saying elimination of the golf area? MR. BREWER-We can't do that, can we, Mark? MR. SCHACHNER-I don't think you should, whether you can or not. My understanding, I want to make sure that Staff and I are in agreement on this, is that you're really not approving the - 8 - - - r-placement commercial building at this time? M . BREWER-Correct. M.. SCHACHNER-That being the case, I agree with Tim. You don't Wi nt to be giving a blank check, and you don't have sufficient d,tail, now, to really hit that issue. M:. BREWER-Right. So we would be just giving you t Ie southern most retail extension you're doing a proval for the center piece, so to speak. app,- ova 1 for now, not an RUEL-Well, that's not mentioned here. BREWER-It's on the application. PALING-That's the way the motion would be. M.. OBERMAYER-So you'd have to go through thIS whole ordeal a, ai n. M~. BREWER-You'd have to go through a site plan again. M,. RUCINSKI-I'm just trying to start out with some ground rules u derstood. I understand your concern, and you ought to have, YJU want us back here, and we don't have any problem. We have p-esented on the application, and on the data that is cut off of tlis drawing to make it fit on the cardboard, the statistics for t e size of that retail space. We have shown on the drawings, a,d up here in the statistics, the parking that would be provided f)f that )-etail ~~pace. What you cJon ~..1. have for that.:. retai 1 space i' a stormwater management plan for our area here across the road. That's what you're missing. M~. PALING-I don't think we t at second retail building p an for us to do it. should give any kind of approval to until you come back in with a site M~. BREWER-That would be a whole new issue, to me it would. M,. MARTIN-In order, I believe, for the Board to pass on that s0cond building, that we need to see right now, how are you going tJ do stormwater, how are you going to do septic. M~. BREWER-Exactly. M,. MARTIN-And have a complete site plan. If you want to do t,at, and take it that far, then you could approve the whole tling, and then put some sort of phasing to it. M . BREv.JER-And VJith the condition that when that is built., then t at Number Two curb cut be eliminated, or whatever number it M~. RUCINSKI-All right. I'd like to do that, but my time frame d esn't permit it, in terms of getting this under construction t lis season, but secondly 1 can't do perc tests for that sewage disposal system, because it.'s under the miniature golf course. S I can't do that. M~. BREWER-Okay. So then what that means is you have to come b~ek fo)" anothc~'" sit.e plan fo,- that building. M~. RUCINSKI-If you can't give me conceptual approval. M~_ BREWER-No, because we don't know anything about it. We don't h~ve any pere tests. We don't have anything, no stormwater, nJthing. ~. RUCINSKI-Okay. - 9 -- MR. MARTIN-Ron, I don't know what value there is in conceptual approval. I mean, the lot has enough density to permit the three buildings, or the future addition here. So it meets the zoning test. It's just a matter of working out the technical details. MR. RUCINSKI-Well, I come Board. I've got a new set were here in '89 with four and nobody asked us. back next year and I've got a new of ground rules. Understand, that we curb cuts and a restaurant addition, MR. MARTIN-Yes, but things change. MR. RUCINSKI-Things change. MR. MARTIN-I mean, the traffic situation on Route 9 is much more sensitive. MR. RUCIN5KI-I know things change, but I here, a year from now, or actually less back in next July, and have this Board ought to only have Q..D.Q. curb cut. don't want to come back than a year from now, say, gee, we think you MR. BREWER-Well, that may very well happen. what somebody else is going to do. We can't speak to MR. OBERMAYER-Then provide the engineering. MR. BREWER-Yes. Give us the engineering now, and then we'll give you an approval right now. MR. PALING-But he can't. MR. BREWER-Well then we can't. MR. PALING-No, right. Well, could you do it next month? MR. RUCINSKI-No. I can't make test pits under that golf course. I mean, I can't do it, and the sewage disposal system would be right under there, and not only that, the Town regulations on perc tests aTe pretty specific, that they really should be done in the spring, to get an accurate reading of high water table and all that good stuff. Now, I mean, we've got percolation tests that were done over there. We've got percolations tests that were done over there. We've got percolation tests that were done over here. I'm going to be very surprised if it's different over -"¡ere" MR. BREWER-It probably won't, but, I mean, that's the way the Boa,"d feels. MR. RUCINSKI-I hear your problem. We'll live with that. MR. BREWER-Okay, Jim, any other questions or comments? Cathy? MRS. LABOMBARD-I just have a question as far as the way this is worded. It says, "For addition and alterations to existing retail store. Also, construction of a new building for future retail stores." 50 does that mean when we make a motion to approve what Mr. Lombardo has proposed here, with the curb cuts and everything, that, is this going to be two separate entities, or are we just, we're just talking about for addition and alterations to existing retail store, and the second one, construction of a new building, is out of the question, because we don't have any engineering plans? MR. MARTIN-Exactly. MR. BREWER-I guess what ~ question would be is how come we have this application and we don't have that information we need, if that's the case? - 10 - I i'1 S. LABOMBARD--That's m..z, question, 1- ight,. p10posal, here, then, if that was what we Why was it put on were supposed to? the M . MARTIN-That's a question for the applicant. I don't know why h" put that on there. MfS. LABOMBARD-Right. Ron, why was that put on the proposal, if, know, we're supposed to ratify something, or propose SI mething like that and ratify it, and yet we don't have anything t go by, anything tangible? Mf:. RUCINSKI-The application said addition and alterations to e:'istino ,·c;tE"il store, to C'"eEtte t.h,-ee stores now, plus four f ture stores. What you are telling me is that. you are not a proving t.he four future stores. So, limit your approval to the t. ',T ee sto,- es . LABOMBARD-So it.'s, they're completely separate. Okay. M MACEWAN-Two questions I guess I have. We've been talking, a I along here, about trucks 30 foot in length. What happens if y u start getting deliveries and this addition to the ret.ail S ores is built, you start getting deliveries with 40, 45 foot t ndums? How does that affect your setback? Can they get in t. lere at all? I'm talking a tractor trailer, somebody like H.: Imes TnlCking 0'" somebody lik,? t.hat. Suppose they b,-ought in, t) set up a new store and were bringing in all the fixtures for the store plus the goods and stuff? Would they be able to get in t:. ¡ere? M~. RUCINSKI-I'm not worried. I've got to explain this a little c refully. The occasional tractor delivery, the guys delivering s'ore fixtures for a new store, we can schedule him to come when t1ere's nobody in the parking lot. You've got to make that d-livery at 7 o'clock in the morning or 8 o'clock in the morning, W1en the parking lot.'s not in use, and we'll Jockey you in there. Olce we've got this in place, we have a reasonable opportunity to got a tractor trailer in there and out, the 45 footer or the 50 f')oter. M . MACEWAN-Lets back up a minute. will the applicant own the r-tail stores, or is it just going to be one retail store? RUCINSKI-There will be tenants. M,. MACEWAN-Like a bunch of lit.tle shops. M~. RUCINSKI-There will be, the plan calls for three stores in t1is portion of the site. M\. MACEWAN-Okay, so that they will be leased out to other t~nants who will have their own business in there? RUCINSKI-Most likely. M\. MACEWAN-Do you know what kind of stores you anticipate to t,rget, what kind of retail? I mean, are you talking knic-knack, sJuvenier type of thing, or are you trying to come up with an ijea like what you see down in the Million Dollar Half Mile, with a, variet.y of nice, China stores or clothing stores, name brand oµtlet type stores? I I M~\. RUCINSKI-Well, obviously, we won't turn those fellows down, b t we don't expect any. I mean, we expect, our market that wQ're anticipating is still the seasonal, tourist market. Mr. L)mbardo doesn't expect to go nose to nose with the Million D)llar Half Mile. M~. MACEWAN-So he plans on, basically, come Columbus Day weekend, that's t.he last weekend? He closes up until Memorial Day? - 11 - MR. RUCINSKI-That's stores of very modest square feet a piece. is four. what we're expecting, and we're talking size. They're in the neighborhood of 3,000 The stores down below, the smallest of them MR. MACEWAN-But most of those retail stores, their deliveries are primarily through a common carrier. They're not a UPS type deliveries of any kind that they get, and my concern is that when most of these common carriers come in, they have the large vehicles, the large trucks, tractor trailers. How are you going to flow them through that parking lot, and how are you going to be able to police it, to the point where you're going to be able to tell these retail tenants that they can only accept deliveries from tractor trailers between these hours? MR. RUCINSKI-I think that a tenant that is expecting that kind of delivery with any kind of frequency is not going to be interested in renting, because we can't accommodate that. I mean, the only way we could accommodate that is to come back to you for another curb cut, and we're not planning on that, either. MR. MACEWAN-Okay. I guess you've answered that as best you can, and my second question to you is, what happens if the State tells you that they no longer want you to park in their right-of-way? MR. RUCINSKI-The same thing that happens right now. problem. He's got a MR. BREWER-Do you have enough parking if they say you can't park there? MR. RUCINSKI-Well, the site created. The problem would the restaurant, it would business. is large enough that parking could be be that it would be so far away from probably put the restaurant out of MRS. LABOMBARD-Ron, I don't think you should feel that way. People don't mind parking, I mean, from being a tourist myself, you have all that space on the southern end of that property. I mean, L thought there was tons of room when I walked it twice. People will park their car, do a little shopping, and they don't mind taking a little walk a hundred yards up the way, do they? MR. RUCINSKI-When the weather's nice. MRS. LABOMBARD-In the season, though, that you're talking about operating, most of the time the weather is decent. MR. RUCINSKI~Well, how many July and August afternoons this summer, four or five o'clock in the afternoon, did we have a thunderstorm? Historically, in our area, September is the rainiest month, and by that I mean that the month with the day~s that it rains the most, not the most water, but the days that it rains, most apt to rain on the largest number of days, and, I mean, obviously, if the State comes along and says, you can no longer park their, Mr. Lombardo, he's going to have to face up to it. He probably is going to try and put some parking back there and see what happens, but chances are the building would wind up being something other than a restaurant. MR. BREWER-Okay. Everybody? Is that it fo)- questions or comments? here. Does this resolution cover the ne¡"'J MR. RUEL-Question building at. all? MR. PALING-Yes. It's got to cover two of them. MR. BREWER-Well, we're going to have our own resolution, Roger. - 12 - ì----- I I I I I Mf RUEL-Well, the resolution as written does not cover that. -- -1" M BREWER-I think Bob's come up with something to eliminate the w rry about that middle building. Wait a minute. Did I leave tie public hearing open? Well, is there anybody here to speak on t. Ü8 project? P BLIC HEARING OPEN N COMMENT P BLIC HEARING CLOSED BREWER-All right. Did we do a SEORA. Scott? M~ . r-1~ . M~" HARLICKER-You did do the SEORA. BREWER-All right. Now, Bob, if you want to read what you h \/e" M.. PALING-All right. I'll try it anyway. M TION TO APÞROVE SITE PLAN NO. 28-94 LEONARDO LOMBARDO, I troduced by Robert Paling who moved for its adoption, seconded b Roger Rue 1 : With the following stipulations: That. construction will proceed olly on the 5520 foot addition to the existing retail building. Tlat the southernmost curb cut be eliminated for the present, and t,at any further building on this site, be it additions to or new bllildings, b.e brought before t.his .Board for site plan review, and a: that time, the Board anticipates that a second curb cut will b~ eliminated, so that the total curb cuts left on the job will b~/ two, a,.,d. th.at t._h.ese.conditions be met before CO is issued" Tlat the revised plans be submitted to the Planning Office by O;tober 28. 1994. D ly adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following \/ )te : A'ES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, IV¡ ". Br e(¡~er N~ES: Mr. MacEwan A~SENT: Mr. Stark S TE PLAN NO. 32-94 TYPE: UNLISTED BARRETT AUTO SALES, INC. o NER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: QUAKER RD., A JACENT TO CAR WASH & SOUTHEAST OF GARDEN TIME. PROPOSAL TO C NSTRUCT A 71' X 115' BUILDING TO BE USED FOR SALES AND SERVICE o AUTOS AND TRUCKS. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 65-90 BEAUTIFICATION C MM.: 9/12/94 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 9/14/94 TAX MAP NO. 110- 1 1.23 LOT SIZE: 85,500 SQ. FT. SECTION: 179-26 C~ARLES SCUDDER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT M") '\ . BREWER-Okay, Scott, do we have any notes? M~. HARLICKER-No. I haven't seen the new revised map yet. ~¡: _.., _ M,~F(~ I,t\I--f~l~r~a ì"<: nt 1 y ~ ,t he.>: ", ~ame into Fd st ·..F," ost today at 4: 30 . r Ilot ~> as, S;OOII as> we S:)0t t Ilt~lJl. M~. BREWER-Okay. Jim, y~u have not seen the map? I ME. MARTIN-No. Bill got a copy. We don't have any comments, brcause we haven't seen it. Mþ. BREWER-So can we get, give you time to get comments? i I i I I I - 13 - MR. MARTIN-Yes. I'd like that. I mean, if YOU want to have some sort of discussion, but. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. I think it would be worthwhile to have it on. MR. BREWER-We can discuss the things, and then we'll let Staff review them and maybe have another quick meeting next week and gIve you an approval, or whatever. Is that a problem? We don't have any information. MR. PALING-I just have one question, that's all. Unless I'm looking at this wrong, you're asking for an approval of a site plan on an existing lot that's zoned Light Industrial, and the use that you're putting it to is not Light Industrial. MR. BREWER-It's a Light Industrial and the use is not listed, Bob? i"1R. PALING-No. IndustLLal--1(, . According to this, you're currently zoned Light MR. SCUDDER-I called you, Scott, about the zoning, remember, one day, on the Quaker Road zoning? MR. MARTIN-Allowed, site plan review uses under Light Industrial are heavy equipment sales and truck repair facility. MR. PALING-This is an automobile. Commercial. This is automobile sale. He should be HighlrJay MR. SCUDDER-It's truck sales, truck and a few cars. MR. PALING-Okay. Well, whichever. I'm not trying to grind an axe, here. I'm Just want to, it should be done right, and I thought Highway Commercial is the right way. MR. SCUDDER-I don't think it is Light Industrial, sir. MR. PALING-I'm going by this. MR. SCUDDER-I think that's wrong. MR. BREWER-Didn't we just talk about the Nemers land getting re- zoned from Light Industrial to Highway Commercial? MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's why I say, in that context, when I was looking at the map for that. MR. BREWER-That was zoned Light Industrial and still is today. MR. MARTIN-But that was the edge of Light Industrial, from that, there down Quaker Road. MR. BREWER-Can we get a map and check it, right now? MR. MARTIN-Yes. I can just take a few seconds. MR. BREWER-We can still have our discussion. Lets have that checked. We'll have a discussion, and then we'll have another meeting next week. MR. MARTIN-It was reviewed and approved for the same exact thing a few years ago. I'm going to go over and check the tax maps. MR. BREWER-According to this, it's Light Industrial. MR. SCUDDER-Why do you say that, Mr. Chairman? I don't follow that. MR. MACEWAN-Because there's the border. There's the line right - 14 - ---~I-------- I I I I I I I I tle,-e. This whole section "ight in he,-e, just. like thi~:, ilcluding this little spur, here, all the way down like that is H ghway Commercial. Everything right up in here, in that pie slape right there, is Light Industrial, and it runs, it appears t at it runs right down the middle of Quaker Road. BREWER-And then this here would be SFR-l. 1'1 SCUDDER-That doesn't make any sense. M.. BREWER-Agreed. It doesn't make any sense. PALING-Jim is going to clarify it anyway. 1'1 BREWER-But if that's the case, lets get 1t straightened out. M SCUDDER-It would be my opinion, without knowing, that the i ¡tent was to have a band on either side of Quaker Road that's H ghway Commercial, along the corridor. i'1~~. BREI,..JER-The j~st had this ì-~ad thd.t.. Is I 1'1~ . MACEI,..JAI'''-I'·~o . stnford ~:,t.reet. M~. ~CUD~ER~~h~s was approved in '90, that issue that we brought ut the laQt L1mL. M~. BREWER-I'm not disputing t.hat. Bob brings up a good qrestion, though. According to this map, it's Light Industrial. Mf' SCUDDER-He's gone down to look at the tax map. M,. BREWER-Fine. Lets go on with our discussion. Okay. w 'll have to have a public hearing again here tonight. reason that it sticks piece in, right here. that thi~â. pÜ"c;e? in my mind is because we I don't know how you would It only 90e::s a~:; f af as right there. That's; So SCUDDER-Well, the Barrett Brothers want to develop a new a ency on this site. They're in the car leasing and truck l~asing and rental and sales business, and they need to expand t leir operation and want to move over to Quaker Road. Now, I've p-epared the report which each of you have a copy of, and the s"te has frontage of 285 feet on Quaker Road. It will run back 3 0 feet southerly from Quaker Road. There is access and egress b th with respect to Quaker Road and with respect to a paved s rvice )øoad in the Hewlett SubdivisionK So that they can come iloff Dix Avenue, or go out to Dix Avenue and go out to Quaker R ad. Back in the middle or early 80's, this site was prepared b' the subdivision developer so that the grade is about the same, e 'erywher""" as Quake,- Road. Th,,,, principal ì-equirem""nt of the B rrett Brothers is that they can get their vehicles in and out h3ndily and that they have adequate parking. They want to have a siles office/administration, a garage, a substantial garage, and s) they can do mechanical work and so on. Now we have here a 11yout which shows that 32 percent of the site is reserved for g-een space, permeable space. The rest of the site is treated as inpermeable, even though some of it will be impacted permeable, b~cause it will be not all paved, or not all roofed over, but for tle purposes of the Town's requirements, it's impermeable. This l~yout. provides parking for 70 cars in 180 square foot spaces, tlree handicapped spaces, which are on the, what I call the n)rthwesterly corner of the building, and parking on the S!lutherlY side for 15 trucks. Now, there is green space all a-ound the perimeter, a 35 foot strip down the westerly side, a ,~" ,fo~t S~:T" i~' a lo~g .th." e :ou:~herJ. '¡' . .side, a _::2 _ f oo~ _ " st:~ ~~, ~n th: c3ste, ly ~ld~, and e1th~r u 6 0) an 11 tooL sLì IP d~'OSS th~ f-ont on the northerly side, depending on how we pave those pþrking spac.es. I think the '.-equirement. is for a minimum of fi.ve fþet. We've shown SlX. You'll notice that the aisle widths are i I - 15 - gracious, so that there's plenty of room for maneuvering both cars and trucks. Occasionally, a semi-trailer will have to come and go through here, and it'll be possible for that vehicle to pass through without any problem. The straight jobs, the medium duty trucks, such as they rent, or lease, will be able to move around without any problem on the interior aisles. We don't want to pave any more of this site than is necessary, both for business purposes and to satisfy the requirements of the Town. There'll be a dumpster situated in the back of the building, on the southerly end in this green space back here, where it will be out of sight, and it won't be an eyesore. It will also be in a handy place. There's a public water supply available. There's a 16 inch main of the Queensbury Water District on the same side of the road, and that will be tapped according to Town Water Department Standards. It will be a short tap because it remains on the same side of the road, and because the water requirements are low, a standard three quarter inch service lateral will be sufficient. Wastewater disposal will have to be done on site, and we have calculated that a tile field or absorption system will be situated here in the green space, and that'll be adequate to handle 15 people, with a considerable factor of safety, something in the order of 1.4. Test holes have been dug by a contractor for the project, to a depth of eight feet. The first four feet are sandy soils of a medium texture. The bottom four feet are highly compacted, very fine soils, what we normally call hard pan. It has some cobbles in it. That's one of the reasons why we're using a shallow absorption system. The percolation rate, as stabilized, is nine minutes to the inch. We've designed somewhat more conservatively than that. One of the things we're going to ask the Planning Board to allow, or to waive, is a requirement, if there is a requirement, for post mounted lighting outside. The reason for that is people back into these things. They make snowplowing difficult, and impede the movement of vehicles. The Barrett's would like to light their site, from lights mounted on the building, which works fairly well. Now, there will be a sign, and I think on Sheet Three on the Details sheet there's a picture of a sign, which will be a Pensky sign, or something of that order, and that would be situated in the northeasterly corner of the site, and setback 15 feet from both property lines. I'm not sure there's a more stringent requirement for that, but we arbitrarily chose 15 feet as the setback. This project has already been submitted and approved by the Queensbury Beautification Committee. They have passed a resolution to approve the proposed planning schedule, which still remains in effect. Now the site is going to be graded in such a way that stormwater will run to all sides of the property from the building, and since there's green area on all sides of the property, at the perimeter, we're going to provide shall vegetated ditches or swales, designed in accord with the New York State Guidelines for Erosion and Sediment Control, the big blue book, which will retain the water for a period of time for sedimentation, removal of sediments, in other words, straining out of sediments, or settling out of sediments, and then it will be discharged to swales that eventually run to a water course, and then to the Hudson River" This entire site is, well, three sides of it, the north, east, and southerly sides are surrounded by deep swales or drainage ditches, and connected by culverts in such a way that the water goes to a main drainageway that runs to the river. It goes down under Dix Avenue and on across to the river. This whole site, in fact, part of the Earltown property is drained by that same water course. Electric and telephone utilities, cable and the like will be brought in underground. We do not propose any overhead wires, and I did mention in the report, in the final item, that there may be some concern, environmental concern, about grease and oil. As we've dealt with snow, grease and oil must be recovered in the shop and disposed of in accord with the requirements of law. Extraneous materials that fall on the concrete floors are swept up. They have some stuff they throw around to absorb the grease spots and oil spots, and it gets swept up and picked up and disposed of. So that's a - 16 - 1 ! g~neral rundown, Mr. Chairman. M1. BREWER-Did he fill out a Haz Mat sheet? M1. MARTIN-No, but we can have that done. MF SCUDDER-What? Mf 8REl"JER-·Haza,"dous Mate," ials she!,:,t, M MARTIN-I just want to get this fundamental issue cleared up, o' the zoning here, and I know this, this is the exact same use t lat was proposed in 1990, right? M.. SCUDDER-Right. M . MARTIN-What's the principal use conducted here, in terms of s les? "t. SCUDDER-Rental and leasing. MI. MART n-" -Of? M~. SCUDDER-Trucks and cars, rental and leasing. I M~, MARTIN-All right. I just don't know why this wasn't an btfore. I M~. SCUDDER-What's the zone, Jim? i M . MARTIN-It's Light Industrial. issue M~. SCUDDER-How do you know that? M . MARTIN-I went over and I checked it. w'nt over and checked our individual tax i 's clearly Light Industrial. That's where I went. I maps to make sure, and M,'~. SCUDDER--J"Jell, I raised that question some time ago and I c lled the Planning Department to get it clarified, and I guess w~ all made the same error. I really thought it was Highway C mmercial One Acre. M\. MARTIN-No. We had it on the agenda as Light Industrial, and t ìat's con'ect" M'.. SCUDDER-You'll have to admit that that zoning map t ugh to interpret. Mb. MARTIN-Yes, it is. t¡~at . i M~, BREWER-And there's no question, $.ìoµld be Highway Commercial, but gless is the question. is kind of It i~; tough to interpret. I will sa>' I think, in !Iìl.'. mind, that it what do we do from here, I M~. MARTIN-Well, the truck sales end of it, and truck repair and t"uck rental, you know, I don't have a problem with that, under t Ie existing zoning, Now, if it's a situation where the car s les is incidental to that, because I'll read you the definition of Principal Use. i Mþ. SCUDDER-Excuse me. Could I ask a question before you do t~at? Is a car wash a Light Industrial operation? I MR. MARTIN-No, and that may very well df' n't know how that's there, or Mazda, s,les, clearly. That's the types of i '¡to. be there by variance, I for example. That's car things I'd like to look - 17 - MR. MACEWAN-We also should look into the approved site plan for, what was it, Car Essentials, they were going to put that little Plaza down there, because that's in a light industrial. Can they do that, as well? MR. MARTIN-At some point the zone changes, as you get to the intersection of Dix and Quaker. MR. PALING-Jim, before that, is it on both sides of Quaker, this Light Industrial? MR. MARTIN-No. MR. PALING-Only on one side is Highway Commercial? MR. MARTIN-The Earltown property is Highway Commercial, like to know what the thinking was back in 1990. I mean, like to lightly overturn a decision of a past Administrator. This went through. It was approved. but I'd I don't Zoning MR. BREWER-Well, maybe the same mistake was made, an assumption that it was Highway Commercial. It's possible. MR. MARTIN-It says Light Industrial, even on the notation from the Weller plans that were approved. The only thing I can think, just sitting here, is that the truck sales were viewed as the principal use of the site, because Principal Use is defined as the main or primary purpose for which land or a building is used or occupied or maintained. When more than one use is on a lot, the more or most intense use shall be considered the main or primary use. MR. BREWER-But if you go down to Dix Avenue, and I don't know, predominantly, it's cars, there are, there's a lot of trucks and everything, but is it basically your business cars, and, I mean, honestly? And I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything. MR. SCUDDER-It's basically half and half. MR. BREWER-I think what we should do, maybe a suggestion, Jim. Why don't we just go through it, walk through the discussion of the plan, give you some time to, or give our Staff some time to go through and see what the idea was and we'll meet next Tuesday night and get it settled, whether you have to get a variance or we have to ask the Town Board to re-zone, or whatever we have to do, and we'll be more than happy to accommodate you in any way so you can get going this year. MR. PALING-Could Mazda have gotten a Use Variance? MR. BREWER-Sure they could have. Those are the kinds of things we have to look into. Okay. So we can go down through the Board and ask any questions that we might have. I know there was some discussion about the 22 spaces in the front. They do meet current parking standards now, and we talked about possibly making them smaller, waiving the requirement, because they were going to be display cars. MR. SCUDDER-Yes. We did talk about that in a meeting that we had here. MR. BREWER-It wasn't a meeting. I just happened to walk in, and you were talking to Scott. MR. SCUDDER-It was an impromptu occasion. MR. BREWER-Right. MR. SCUDDER-And the suggestion was made by somebody that we might - 18 - --¡---- I ri'duce the size of the space allotted for each car and also d minish the amount of pa\/ing, in orde)- to increa.se green space 01 gravel space, as the case may be. Mr BREWER-And that would be these 22 spaces right here, for 81ybody that doesn't know what we're talking about, right in the f¡Ont. ThOSL.= are basically going to be display cars, for sale or r onto Is it basically for sale? I don't think the requirement f'r a parking space would be. I I Mt'. SCUDDER-It would be a combination, but the point is that u ,like, say, a supennarki3t or. a P.o..st O.ffice,. you don't ha\/e cars d cking and undocking every fifteen minutes. MI~' BREWER-An..d I th\.~.U9.ht may. 'be." to gain. more gree.n space we could e iminate, or waive the requirement for the full, what is it, 10 b' 20, 9 by 20, to accommodate more green space. Mf. PALING-Are you saying making the parking spaces narrower? Is trat what you're saying? M~. BREWER-Either that or shorter, whatever the case may be. I ì M~. PALING-I wouldn't want to see narrower. ef'lol.Jgh. I ! ~r1~;,~B~~I_~".E~'\:_-~1},engl. It'oi[)lf___oÇ~~~s~ words, it's like Queensbury Motors has. h~1 ~ ~ ~" . - I: ~I.. lined up for sale. It's not going to I bt~ . Mt- PALING-How wide are their spaces? M¡~. BREWER-I don't know. M~. HARLICKER-You show an area to be designated for display. M~. RUEL-Yes. It's M~. BREWER-Right. M~: PALING-Well, they don't even have to mark them anyway, from OJ1- standpoint.. M~. BREWER-No. The/ don't ha\,e to mar k them, but the size r~quirement has to be there. M~. PALING-So many per? I MÞ.. BREWEF~,--'y'øs;. M~. PALING-Oka/. I M~. HARLICKER-You show an area that's 100 b/ 40, and that's what / ur displa/ area for cars, or whatever. Nine is ni3xro~,,¡ not for peoplø going in and out of cars. M~. SCUDDER-I'm not aware of any requirement for striping. M~. BREWER-No, no, no. We're talking about physical size. I M~. MARTIN-We're just talking about a designated area for clispla'l. M~. SCUDDER-Well, what's to say that /ou can't put more cars in tV?" e tha n 22'7 M¿. BREWER-Nothing. I M~. MARTIN-Nothing. That's why we're just sa/ing a dimensional at-ea. I I I I - 19 - i "-..-.--..---- MR. BREWER-If you can fit them, put 26, whatever. MR. HARLICKER-You had also talked about moving that permeable space from the rear to the front of the building and getting rid of those seven spaces, when you were in the office, too. MR. SCUDDER-We talked about that, my client. MR. HARLICKER-And it seemed to be more worthwhile to put that out front, as opposed to the back of the building. MR. SCUDDER-That's correct. We did talk about that. The Barretts are interested in having a display area there in front of the building. MR. HARLICKER-They've got 22 spaces across the front. MR. SCUDDER-I know. i"1f-~ . HARLICKER-Oka>' . I'm. BREI,..JER-So you want to have tlrJO display areas? MR. SCUDDER-That's the wish of our client. MR. MACNAMARA-I think you may actually want to hold off flip flopping that, because he's still going to give us some numbers on stormwater volumes and runoff, and he may actually need this space for some volume, albeit it may only be a foot deep or something, a shallow swale, but as far as the volume numbers go and infiltration, we have yet to see those type of numbers, and he may actually be counting on that. I'm not sure. I'm just guessing, but it may be a little premature to make it a definite. MR. RUEL-What are the proposed hours of operation? JIM BARRETT MR. BARRETT-Jim Barrett. Generally it's eight o'clock, and we're open seven days a week. We (lost word) six and a half days a week. to five, six close Sundays MR. RUEL-And you also indicated the exterior lighting will be mounted on the building? MR. SCUDDER-We'd prefer that, big flood lights on all four cor ne," s . MR. RUEL-Fine, but I would appreciate it if they weren't facing the traffic on Quaker Road. MR. SCUDDER-That's understandable. I agree with that. MR. RUEL-Okay. security purposes Also, do you propose any on the vehicles? fenced in arøa for MF~. SCUDDER-No. MR. RUEL-You also indicated a drain inside the garage? MR. SCUDDER-We have a drain, you know, when you bring a vehicle with snow on it, particularly a truck, it has a tendency to accumulate a lot of snow on the road. MR. RUEL-Yes. What is this drain connected to? MR. SCUDDER-It goes into a drywell. The vehicle of a particular height, where it would catch the sediment, we could shovel it out, and the rest of it (lost word) the drywells. - 20 - 1--------- - I M~. RUEL-So it's right in the building? M~. SCUDDER-No. M~. RUEL-Well, how about the drain inside the building? Dt~NIEL BARBE:f~ M~. BARBER-The drainage ditch in the building goes and it drops d~wn for sediment, and then the water would (lost word) snow. i I MI'<. RUEL-'·Okay. b Ülding'? M,. BARBER-Correct. I M~. RUEL-Okay. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't connected to a~y outside sewer connection. Okay. Thank you. i M~. MACEWAN-Just for Staff, I guess, where does the sewer d~strict end at Quaker'? I M~. SCUDDER-Just west of Ridge Road, isn't it, Jim? I ! ~1~. ~'IART 11'1-' "I' es . i i M\. MACEWAN-Way down there. The sediment is in this structuì"e inside the M~. MARTIN-Approximately at the intersection of Ridge and Route 9, and then it runs down Dix Avenue to the back of the K-Mart s'ore, essentially, now. M~. BREWER-I thought that K-Mart, does that come from the City up t) v(-'Mart? M~. MACEWAN-Yes. K-Mart goes into the City, don't they? M~<. MARTIN-Right, up Dix Avenue. I know this design is slightly c ang~d from ~our original, ,submission. Is that going to effect y ur landscap1ng plan at all? M~. HARLICKER-Yes. You had a really nice landscaping plan in the otiginal submission. i M~. SCUDDER-We're going to have the same thing, a similar thing. M~ MARTIN-Can you give me some indication on the new plan as to hfw that's going to be transposed, so to speak? M~. SCUDDER-It's not going to be changed. I I M~. MARTIN-Okay. If you could just put it on to this new plan. ! M~. BREWER-What about Warren County'? M~. SCUDDER-What does Warren County have to do with it? I M~. BREWER-Doesn't it have to go before the Warren County P~anning Board? i i M~. SCUDDER-It went on the 14th of September. Mk. BREWER-If we're getting, a n,ew plan today, isn't it different, o~ not? I don't care either way. i Mt,. MARTIN-The use proposed 1S the same. 1_'s improved. M~. HARLICKER-Because there's one less curb cut. I I If an';lthing I t.hink -. 21 - MR. MARTIN-They've eliminated a curb cut. MR. BREWER-Fine. I just want to cover all the bases. MR. BARBER-I think you bring up a drainage issue, Warren County did not, which is kind of the delay here, basically. MR. BREWER-All right. I guess what we have to do, then, is get your consent to table until next Tuesday. Is that acceptable to everybody? MR. 08ERMAYER-That's fine with me. MR. MARTIN-And we'll research the old records on the old application. MR. BREWER-And you'll get back to us, like, maybe Friday? MR. Mf~RTIN-Yes. MR. BREWER-Thank you. Tuesday. We need a motion to table until next MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 32-94 BARRETT AUTO SALES, INC., Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan: Until 10/25/94. Duly adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following vote: MR. BREWER-And can we all get a copy of this, by Friday possibly? MR. SCUDDER-Yes. MR. BREWER-Along with any comments or questions from Staff and Rist-Frost. Okay. AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Brewer NOE:S: NONE ABSENT: Mr. :stark SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1994 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED DANIEL BARBER OWNER: BARBARA L. BARBER ZONE: SFR-1A LOCATION: WEST SIDE BAY RD., NORTH SIDE TEE HILL ROAD. PROPOSAL IS TO SUBDIVIDE 14 ACRES INTO 10 LOTS FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES. TAX MAP NO. 48-3-49.55 LOT SIZE: 14.32 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS MICHAEL O'CONNOR, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. BREWER-Okay. Mr. O'Connor. MR. O'CONNOR-Good evening. I'm here representing Barbara Barber, who is the developer of this 10 lot subdivision. With me is Daniel Barber, who is also representing the developer, and Charles Scudder. I think the last time we were here, we obtained preliminary approval, and since that time, I understand that Mr. Scudder and Rist-Frost have been exchanging a lot of information. I spoke briefly with Bill some time today, and I think that part of the questions that were at preliminary hearing have been satisfied. I think the resolution at the preliminary hearing had two issues. One was satisfaction of Rist-Frost's engineering comments and the other was satisfaction of Staff's comments as to clear cutting or tree cutting, and those we have also addressed. There was a little confusion on our part as to what was going to - 22 - T I I I I I I - , b.¡' shown on the amended maps, and we have some actual mapping to SlOW you the tree cutting. I was not sure what was going to s own on the tree cutting. I did a narrative this afternoon as Plrt of the declaration of restrictive covenants, and discussed t ose with Scott. Basically, we have said that there will be no t ee cutting in excess of 60 percent of any lot, all trees within t Ie 20 foot. side and n:3ar buff<?r an~E¡S would l)e left. intact., e:cept for those we will move for improvements to the lot, the n ture of septic outbuildings, and driveway, and except for d seased or damaged trees. We've give Staff a copy of the d, claration of covenants, and they, in fact, have cutting r-gulations there. I also, today, just to cover the bases, did a w"it.ten request for waivers. I would amend t.hat.. As I ulderstand it, what was actually submitted to Paul Naylor, and P ul has approved, eliminat.ed one of the requests for waiver. We ( ost word) need wavier one or t.wo. M~. BREWER-We got a lett.er that we asked for from Paul in our ptlC kets . I I Mt. MARTIN-Do you want me to read that into the record, Tim? I Mt:. BREWER-Yes, would you, Jim? M . l'1ARTIN- "Dear 1'11'. B'(ewer: I have revielrJed the plans of Loxley K 011 proposed Subdivision No. 7-1994. It. appears t.hat they now h~ve the three percent slope within a hundred feet of Bay Road, ahd a maximum of ten percent slope for the rest. of the job which 1';,11::::; IrJitJ'"iÎn OUT e>:isting regulations. Scudder r~~ssociates, Elgineers, Surveyors and Planners have revised the design of the r 'ad into Loxley Knoll to meet the Queensbury standards. I find tle revised design acceptable. The applicant has decided not to clange the name of the road, which is Maid Marion Way, also a'ceptable. Respectfully, Paul H. Naylor Queensbury Highway ~;¡per i ntendent" I M~. O'CONNOR-I was not aware that they changed the configuration O."! the rOl.3d. We do not need. waiVC.~1.'. (.Jne or two in our letter that W~ addressed to this Board today. We'd still ask for Waivers Tlree and Four, which has to do with eliminating clear cutting, i= you will, in order to meet the slope. I think one other thing t at Jim asked for last montll was a calculation as to density, a.lld C~.larlie has done that. C JARLES SCI)DDEF: M . SCUDDER-I did determine, in that area for determining density a' you requested, there are less than two and a half acres of Y ad area, and 25 percent slope or greater area to be deducted f"om the gross area. M,. MARTIN-Okay. So just it's just less than two and a half p~rcent, or two and a half acres. M~. SCUDDER-Yes. ." 1 '<""" d" (' F· 'L ~) .j"" ,- ," .- ''"¡ 't= (.;1. .J ...... I <J ,__, ,~, ". (:.1. I (....... (:). t" It's 2.4 something, 1 ..1 aCn?:3. and that gives you an M~. MARTIN-That's been verified by Rist-Frost, also. M,. BREWER-Okay. Any other questions or comments from anybody? M'. RUEL-I have a question about the frontage on Bay Road. I tl0ught it was supposed to be 300 feet. I've got 277. 9 here. M~. HARLICKER-They're accessing that from Maid Marion Way. They a"en't accessing it from Bay Road. Therefore, they don't need tle 300 square, lot width. Is that what you're talking about? M<. RUEL-Yes. The access would be from Maid Marion instead of B y? - 23 ,- MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MR. RUEL-Okay. How about the one up here on Hill Road? should be 150 feet on Hill Road, Lot Number Six? That MR. HARLICKER-It would be 170 something. MR. RUEL-Are you looking at Six? MR. HARLICKER-Yes, .34, .55, and 35.45. MR. RUEL-You've got to add that 35 over there? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MR. RUEL-Okay. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Okay. I guess a motion's in order. MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1994 BARBER, I nt r oduced by Roger Rue 1 ,.oj ho moved for its seconded by Obermayer: DANIEL adoption, As vn- it te n . Whereas, the Town Planning Department is in receipt of final subdivision application, file # 7-1994, to subdivide 14 acres into 10 lots for single family residences; and Whereas, the above application, following: referenced final subdivision dated 9/28/94 consists of the 1. Sheet 1, Layout, dated 5/25/94; and Whereas. the above file is supported with the following documentation: 1. 2. Engineering comments, dated 10/12/94 Drainage and stormwater management data Scudder Associates, dated 9/27/94 10/17/94; and from and Whereas, the proposed subdivision has been submitted to the appropriate town departments and outside agencies for their review and comment; and t-Jhereas, any modification and terms contained in preliminary subdivision approval have complied with. the been Therefore, Be It Resolved, as follows: The Town Planning Board, after considering the above, hereby moves to approve final subdivision plat for Guido Passarelli, file # 7-1994. Let it be further resolved, 1. That prior to the signing of the plat by the Chairman of the Planning Board all appropriate fees shall be paid and that within 60 days of the date of this resolution the applicant shall have signed plat filed in the Office of the Clerk of Wan-en County. 2. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this resolution. - 24 - í------- i 3. The conditions shall be noted on the map. I I I I I I I I D~lY adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following \/\t1t() : A+ES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mt. MacEwan, Mr. Brewer 1·"jtE S : . j\jOI\ E A SENT: Mr. Stark M~. O'CONNOR-Mr. Brewer, do you also need a separate resolution, oL do you need to incorporate the request for waivers in that r, solution? 4. The issuance of permits is conditioned compliance and continued compliance with Zoning Ordinance and subdivision regulations. on the M<. MACEWAN-That was what I was going to ask, because they aren't i here. Why don't we just incorporate them into this motion. T1at would be the easiest thing to do. M~. O'CONNOR-As long as we have it as part of the record, I have n) problem, however you want to do it. M . BREWER-What are the waivers, Mike? M~. O'CONNOR-We request a waiver from the required sloping of tree to one on Lots 8 and 9, and we request a waiver of the one p~rcent positive grading for areas of the lot not disturbed. 1"1,~. BREl~EI'~-l~e can i ncorporat,,:,) that into the moti(:;.n. M~. MACNAMARA-Would you choose to incorporate the engineering c mments as well, that have been addressed? 1'1,~. BREI,..JER-Yes. 1'1,<. 1'1ACEI,.JAt\j-They're already in the motion. The IrJaiver IiJasn't. Mt. MARTIN-Have all your comments been addressed? I M\. MACNAMARA-Well, we're in the process of it, or some are not il my direct control, such as the County approval for the access 01 Bay Road, and there was the boiler-plate issues of markers at c rners and angle points and things of that nature, but there c~rtainly were some. M,. BREWER-Why don't we rescind that motion and start right over a ain. M\. SCHACHNER-Yes. M,. BREWER-Can we rescind that? Roger, rescind it, and we'll v:;.te on it, and then we'll do it allover again. M\. RUEL-All right. M T¡ON TO RESCIND THE MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1994 D NIEL BARBE~, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its a option, seconded by Robert Paling: D ly adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following VItO: A'ES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, M's. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer - 25 _. NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Stark MR. BREWER-All right. Now we can start over. MR. RUEL-We have two waivers? MR. BREWER-The two waivers and engineering comments. MR. RUEL-I thought the comments were in the resolution? MR. BREWER-They're not. forth. They're not all. They're still hashing them back and MR. MARTIN-All right. Well, are there any engineering comments unaddressed yet? That haven't been addressed yet? MR. MACNAMARA-The only comment that actually is anything we need to point out is that the access to Bay Road is one that we had some issues with, and we didn't cite specifically. They discussed the access with the County. County brought up the same issues we would have had. They to be fleshed out, and I don't know for a fact they have agreed upon. just thin9 them The need been MR. O'CONNOR-We understand that we have to obtain County approval before we ask for the Chairman's signature. That wasn't put into your resolution, but we look upon that as another agency, the same as obtaining the Department of Health signature. MR. MACNAMARA-Which is fine. It's totally adequate with me. The other issue is the three percent grade, which I'm a little confused as to what just happened, whether it was or wasn't requested as a variance. The last profile that we've seen shows that the three percent is not maintained per 100 feet. As a matte," of fact, it's greate,' than, the last p,-int v~e have Cha,-lie, correct me if I'm ~'-Jrong, August 31st is our dato, shov,JS it to be greater than three percent for a considerable length of the 100 feet, and I just I'd just bring that up because if thero's anothor profile, just as a formality, we probably ought to see it and say, yes, it's three percent per 100 feet, although apparently Paul's already seen it. Fine. We just haven't seen it. MR. SCUDDER-Paul has seen it, and I have one for you. MR. MACNAMARA-That's fino. Just to put in our own file. MR. O'CONNOR-There's a profile of October 4th which shows, I think, complianco with your comment of September 7th. MR. MACNAMARA-Okay. bring it up. I just hadn't seen anything. That's "'Jhy I MR. OBERMAYER-And we have Naylor's letter. MR. BREWER-Why don't we just put, and grant the waivers, Number Three and Four, letter dated October 18th from Barbara L. Barber. MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1994 DANIEL BARBER, I nt r oduced by Roger Rue 1 l;J ho moved for its adopt ion, seconded by Craig MacEwan: As written. With the inclusion of waivers Three and Four, listed on the letter dated 18 October 1994, to the Planning Board, from Barbara L. Barber, and, secondly, that outstanding engineering comments be met in a letter from Rist-Frost, to that effect, dated October 12, 1994. - 26 - I- I I I I I ! Whereas, the Town Planning final subdivision subdivide 14 acres residences; and Department is in receipt of application, file # 7-1994, to into 10 lots for single family Whereas, the above application, following: referenced dated 9/28/94 final subdivision consists of the 1. Sheet 1, Layout, dated 5/25/94; and Whereas, the above file is supported with the following documentation: 1 . Engineering comments, dated 10/12/94 Drainage and stormwater management data Scudder Associates, dated 9/27/94 10/17/94; and from and 2~ Whereas, the proposed subdivision has been submitted to the appropriate town departments and outside agencies for their review and comment; and Whereas, any modification and terms contained in preliminary subdivision approval have complied with. the been Therefore, Be It Resolved, as follows: The Town Planning Board, after considering the above, hereby moves to approve final subdivision plat for Guido Passarelli, file # 7-1994. Let it be further resolved. 1. That prior to the signing of the plat by the Chairman of the Planning Board all appropriate fees shall be paid and that within 60 days of the date of this resolution the applicant shall have signed plat filed in the Office of the Clerk of Warren County. 2. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this resolution. 3. The conditions shall be noted on the map. 4. The issuance of permits is conditioned on compliance and continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and subdivision regulations. DIly adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following v te: A'ES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, M . MacEwan, Mr. Brewer NONE Mr. Stark BDIVISION NO. 6-85 FINAL STAGE DIXON HEIGHTS, PHASE II NER: THE MICHAELS GROUP ZONE: SR-1A LOCATION: RTHEASTERLY OF SIDE OF DIXON RD., NORTH OF HALFWAY BROOK. PLICANT IS PROPOSING TO MODIFY A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BDIVISION FOR DIXON HEIGHTS, PHASE II. THE MODIFICATIONS VOLVE ELIMINATING 2 FOUR-PLEX UNITS ON OLD MILL LANE AND PLACING THEM WITH 3 TWO-PLEX UNITS. TAX MAP NO. 95-3-999 CTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS - 27 - JOHN MICHAELS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. MICHAELS-Good evening. I'm John Michaels from the Michaels Group. What we're proposing is, the last two buildings that are left to construct at Dixon Heights. They are two and four unit townhouse buildings, and what we would like to do is change that to accommodate what seems to be selling a lot better over there, and when Dixon Heights was originally laid out, it was meant to meet two markets, professional with young children, and also the empty nester, but what's happened is, basically we found that the project has really gone toward the empty nester, and they require a master bedroom on the main floor. This is a rendering of what the two unit has, what we've done, and some of the units in there were two unit buildings and they sold rather well. What we'd like to do is reconfigure the two four unit buildings, which is a total of eight units, and have six units. So we'd be losing two units in the density, which we think is worthwhile, in the fact that we'd have increased sales and also the demand is really there for the master bedroom down. MR. BREWER-Okay. Will you require any engineering or anything at all for this? MR. MARTIN-No. It's much like, remember Dan Valenti's that was in here, several months ago? 1'1R. BREWER-'Yes. 1'1F; . 1'1ARTI N-He ' s actually decr easi ng the number of u ni ts . I think, if anything, the square footage is smaller, so anything like stormwater or anything like that is not a concern. MR. PALING-Why do we have it here at all? MR. MARTIN-Because L can't authorize a modification to a subdivision that's been approved by the Planning Board. Only you can do that, even if it's the most minor of, not anything that's outside of what's considered, like, a boundary line adjustment or something like that. MR. SCHACHNER-Right, and the same with a site plan. if somebody wants to modify an approved subdivision plan, they have to come back to the Board. Basically, 0'" a site MR. MARTIN-And you wouldn't believe, we took the longest time trying to actually decide what this was. MR. BREWER-Okay. Board? Is there any questions from anybody on the MR. SCHACHNER-If you all decide that you want to make a motion to approve, the only thing L would advise is that you somehow include in that motion a statement that you don't view this as a material modification. The reason I'm saying that is because if it was a material modification that would trigger, potentially, the need for a new public hearing, potentially the need for revisiting SEQRA compliance, and things like that. So if you don't feel that it's a material modification, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you should, then I think you should so indicate in any motion for approval. 1'1R. 8REI,.JER-I,.Jhat do you mean by "material modification"? MR. SCHACHNER-If you feel it's a, I don't know what the original parameters of the project were, but, making up numbers, if it was originally a 30 unit project and now it's a 60 unit project or a 50 unit project, you would probably feel, gee, that's a material, or substantive or significant modification, and that would trigger new public hearing requirements, new SEQRA compliance and all that. I'm presuming this doesn't fall in what anyone would - 28 - -1----- I d'!flne as a significant or substantive or material modification. I· that's true, you should so indicate in a motion for approval. M . BREI,.JER-Oka)l. t ere is anybod)l y u're more than o "deì" . There is not a public hearing scheduled, but if here from the public who'd like to comment, welcome to. None being heard, a motion's in M TION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION NO. 6-85 I troduced by Roger Ruel who moved for C aig l'1acEIrJan: DIXON HEIGHTS, PHASE II, its adoption, seconded by T. modif)l previously approved Subdivision for Dixon Heights, P ase II. Modifications involve eliminating 2 four-plex units on o d Mill Lane and replacing them with 3 two-plex units, with no m terial modifications. Dll)l adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following \/~)t(~ :, A'ES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, ~'I'''. Obenna;/eì", Mì". Bn:;l",¡er I"~ ES: NOI\jE A3SENT: Mr. Stark N W._ BUSINESS: S TE PLAN NO. 33-94 TYPE: CRAIG SEELEY, B TEASE OWNERS: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: B OM & TWIN CHANNELS RD. PROPOSAL IS FOR M CHINE SHOP, WELDING SHOP AND STORAGE. 1 -10-94 TAX MAP NO. 135-2-2 LOT SIZE: 1 9-26 CHARLES SEELEY, GLENN LI-1A LOCATION: BIG THREE BUILDINGS FOR A BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 14 ACRES SECTION: W:LLIAM NEALON, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT S AFF INPUT N tes from Staff, Site Plan No. 33-94, Craig Seele)l, Charles S ele/, Glenn Batease, Meeting Date: October 18, 1994 "PROJECT A ALY;;'IS:.. Staff has review<sd the p,-oject for compliance with 50ction 179-38 A, Section B, Section 179-38C and to the relevant f ctors outlined in Section 179-39 and offers the following c mments: 1. Traffic is a concern. The proposed southern a~cess is too close to the intersection of Twin Channels and Big B om Roads. This is an unsafe situation that could be improved b' moving the access to the north and making it one wa/ with left t rn onl)l. The access could be curved so that traffic is d"rected to the north. The project was compared to the following s:andards found in Section 179-38 E. of the Zoning Code: 1. The 1 cation, arrangement, size design and general site compatibility o buildings, lighting and signs; Site compatibility is not an i~sue. The proposed buildings will be the only structures on the s·te. Outside lighting will consist of 3 building mounted l"ghts. The sign in the front will be subject to a separate p rmit. 2. The adequacy and arrangement of vehicular traffic a cess and circulation, including intersections, road widths, p vement surfaces, dividers and traffic controls; As stated a ove, access can be improved by moving the southern access away f"om the intersection and making right turn exit onl/. 3. The 1 cation, arrangement, appearance and sufficiency of off-street p rking and loading; Off street parking is sufficient. A l)ading area is proposed for the rear of the complex. 4. The a equacy and arrangement of pedestrian traffic access and c rculation, walkway structures, control of intersections with v hicular traffic and overall pedestrian convenience; Pedestrian a cess is not an Issue. Two handicapped spaces are shown a jacent to the handicap accessible entrance. 5. The adequacy - 29 - of stormwater drainage facilities; Stormwater management will be reviewed by Rist-Frost. 6. The adequacy of water supply and sewage disposal facilities; The site is serviced by municipal water supply; the sewage disposal facility will be reviewed by Rist-Frost. 7. The adequacy, type and arrangement of trees, shrubs and other suitable plantings, landscaping and screening constituting a visual and/or noise buffer between the applicant's and adjoining lands, including the maximum retention of existing vegetation and maintenance including replacement of dead plants; A lawn area is proposed for the area in front of the building. Additional landscaping would improve the appearance of the site. 8. The adequacy of fire lanes and other emergency zones and the provision of fire hydrants; Emergency access appears to be adequate; a fire hydrant is located across the street. 9. The adequacy and impact of structures, roadways, and landscaping in areas with susceptibility to ponding, flooding and/or erosion. Because of the slopes on the site erosion could be a problem. The actual site disturbance is not taking place on the steepest slopes. However, proper erosion control measures need to be in place during construction and until the site has been stabilized. CONCLUSION: This particular piece of property is currently undergoing two separate actions. There is a site plan under review on the upper portion of the property and a stream disturbance action on the lower portion of the property. The actions are unrelated from a planning perspective and can be effectively dealt with as separate actions. Regarding the proposed site plan for the machine shop, providing the concerns regarding access are addressed to the Board's satisfaction and the engineering concerns are addressed staff can recommend approval of the site plan." MR. PALING-Scott, could I interrupt you, please. clarify that sentence for me, the latter part of say. making it one way with left turn only? Are going, out going, would you expand on that? Would you just it, where you you talking in MR. HARLICKER-Well, I went out and visited the site with Craig Seeley last week, and he's agreed to shift the access north, IrJhich would alleviate ~ concerns, because of the proximity to the intersection of Twin Channels and Big Boom. It would allow for straight visibility all the way down Big Boom and Twin Channels, and a the new access was supposed to line up with the fire hydrant that was across the street from the site. I haven't seen the new plans yet. So I don't know if that was actually, I was informed that it was, but I haven't seen the project. MR. PALING-No. I understand that, and I think that's right, but I'm referring to the direction of traffic, with the direction of turn, left turn only. MR. HARLICKER-It should be, it would have been right turn, and in reality, that's the way the traffic's going to go, because if you turn left out of that site, it's a dead end. MR. PALING-So that's right turn only? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. At the time, you were contemplating curving it instead of moving it, but instead of that, they've moved it to the north. MR. PALING-Okay. That makes sense. MR. BREWER-Scott, what do you mean by new plans? UÜs? other than MR. HARLICKER-I guess they've drawn up something. I haven't seen it yet, but as of last week, Craig Seeley had agreed to shift the access into the site north, so it centers on that fire hydrant that's across the street from the site. On the other side of Big 800m Road there's a fire hydrant indicated there. The new access - 30 - w s to line up with that fire hydrant. i'1f;. PALING~It's on thÜs old print, yes. I"lf BREWEF<-- The fire hydr a nt's 0 n he,' e, Bob? M PALING-,Yes. M,. HARLICKER-On the other side of the street. M . PALING-On the other side of the street. M,~. i'1ACE ¡.jAN--On the opposi te side of Big Boom. M PALING-Yes. M HARLICKER-That's where the new access was to line up. M BREWER-Okay, but the access is not there shown on this map. 1'1 BREWER-Is there a new map? HARLICKER-Right. M ~~EALON-Yes . BREWER-Do we have copies of it? M . NEALON-Perhaps the Staff can go through their remarks, and tlen I can address all of this. M,. HARLICKER-Yes. Okay. M<. BREWER-Okay. Bill? M MACNAMARA-Okay. Some of our comments are closely related to S ott's comments. I'll go through them briefly. We've only seen a plan of the 7th. He mentioned something about a revised plan, a dyou're probably going to touch on that in a minute. We've 0111' seen the plan of October 7th, that we received. There's a d tail for silt fences shown on the drawing. We're suggesting t ¡at it be consistent with the State manual for erosion and c ntrol. Minor details can be shown for the silt fencing detail i_self. In addition to that, regarding the erosion and sediment i sues, there's reseeding and mulching activities that are listed i that manual that should be followed, particularly along the e st side of the property, where there are some fairly s"gnificant slopes that are going to be established upon fill, or c mpletion of filling, and because of the steepness of those s opes, we would suggest that you include in the site plan words t the effect that they'll be stabilized immediately, and we w uld define immediately as within 24 hours after the final goading is done for that back property. Regarding grading, there a-e a number of contours that appear to be missing along the back ejge of where you're grading. Those contours, if they were t,ere, would allow us a better, get a feel for the slopes that a'e being proposed. Regarding the filling activity, there are s me spots that up to 10 feet of fills are shown. We're just s'mply looking for some kind of a statement, and this actually t uches on something that I wasn't aware of until Scott had t lked about it today, about whether or not it encroaches on any n,tural water courses, and should ensure the fill content and placement meets Queensbury's soil erosion standards, and, bisically, looking to see that the proper fill is used in that a-ea. The infiltration assumptions used to size a stormwater b, sin should be shown. It's a basic calculation that Charlie and I are pretty familiar with, as far as what the Town looks for. A ditionally, the grading contours for the plans ought to r3cognize that there is a stormwater basin there which the p-esent plans don't. Minor point, signs should be provided for - 31 - the handicapped spaces and access aisle, if in fact it's not going to be paved, so that people know that they're for handicapped. All right. Last note, septic system, we'd like to see a note in there that says that only sanitary sewage will be discharged to the disposal system, and that note is there because it's a machine shop and a welding shop, and certainly there are certain things used that septic systems don't want, and we'd like to see that recognized. A DOH guideline says that if absorption trenches can be used, seepage pits are discouraged. I don't know that that's ever really been maintained before, but it's a note that I throw in there whenever I see seepage pits, because DOH discourages them unless you can't fit absorption trenches in there. As far as perc tests for the septic system, two are required, and if you're going to use pits, normally it's at half depth and full depth, but apparently you're going to change that. There were some details on the septic plan that had conflicting thicknesses for things like crushed stone envelopes and septic tanks and minor details, we want to have them all match, I'm sure. Depth of cover for pits, 12 inches, which may change, and the depth below the inlet to the pit wasn't shown, which is how we check size and detail, but if the pit goes away, that note goes away. That's all. Thanks. MR. RUEL-Before you go on, I have a question for Staff. The application is for three buildings, correct, on this lot? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MR. RUEL-The written resolution calls for something "Construction and addition to alterations to existing store"? I mean, I'm confused, here. This is application isn't it? else, retail 33-94, MR. BREWER-You're right. MR. RUEL-Which is it, the three buildings, or the modification? MR. NEALON-The proposal is for three buildings for a machine shop, welding shop. MR. BREWER-That must have been a hold over. MR. RUEL-Yes. MR. MARTIN-That's a mistake. MR. PALING-Yes, it is. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. NEALON-My name is Bill Nealon. Seeleys, and just permit me to. I'm here on behalf of the MR. MACEWAN-Mr. Nealon, may I interrupt just for a second? Are you acting as agent for the applicant? MR. NEALON-As the attorney. MR. MACEWAN-Acting as his agent, though? MR. NEALON-Right. MR. MACEWAN-The paper we have on Could you just, as a formality, it? file has someone else on here. fill out a new application for MR. NEALON-Sure. MR. MACEWAN-Thank you. - 32 - M . NEALON-As Scott indicated, there was some concern, when he 81d Mr. Seeley went to the site within the last week or so, r~garding the access, the southerly access, and as it is shown on t leir plan, it comes out below the fire hydrant, which is shown 01 the western edge of Big Boom Road. There is a further plan, 0" a further submission to this Board and to the Town Board, for tle re-zoning of this entire parcel, and the re-location of the m chine shop ingress and egress has been corrected on those, and w just did not have an opportunity to get the plan re-drafted ald before you today for this particular site plan review, but it i- shown on, this is the revised version. Here is our fire h'drant, which Scott made mention of. We've moved this whole ulit up about 40 feet to address the issues that Scott has m~ntioned earlier. M\. MARTIN-So you're saying the whole complex has just shifted to tle north 40 feet? ~1, . HEAU) \ --Shifted to the north about 40 feet" M~. MARTIN-Okay. M.<. NEALot'~-·That ¡"'Jas done for safet)/ reasons, in order to move the s' uthern driveway away from the intersection of Big Boom and 8ig ByRoads. M\. BREWER-So essentially everything on the map just moves up h,ore. M\. NEALON-Everything on the map is the same. It's just moved up s that we don't have a traffic problem. M\. BREWER-Then all the contours and everything that are on here w"ll be on the new map? 1'1 '" HEALON-·Ye~:;. M '. RUEL-How many feet up? ~1,\. 8F~EltJER'-Forty feet. M\. NEALON-About forty feet. If you look where the fire hydrant i'· on th,,) s~o(isting map, t.hat'~; whe'"s the southern dri\/e e~":it.s on t) Big Boom Road. M<. BREWER-When was that discussed, Scott, about moving the i gress and egress? M\. HARLICKER-Last week. M\. BREWER-It just seems that, clanges, and we get. the today. clanges and we don'~ have it. a 1. two applications ago we had Now we've got another map with I'm just making a point. That's M,~. NEALON-What I would like to address at this point is this sLte plan application. We have the benefit of ext.ensive d scussions with Staff and with Mr. Dusek in respect to this p an. What is before you is an application for a machine shop, p us the welding shop. It is in a location zoned Light I dustrial. There is an existing, or proposed accessory building t at's part of the development. There's a storage (lost word) j st to the north of the proposed machine shop and welding shop. T Ie southerly drive which we have just discussed would be an exit d-ive, in the current intended use. M MARTIN-So that all would be a one way drive? M NEALON-In all likelihood, a one way drive. - 33 - MR. RUEL-Entrance at the top? MR. NEALON-Entrance at that (lost word). MR. MARTIN-So that's exit only, then, to the south. MR. NEALON-Loading docks are shown on the map. They are screened from the street by the building. Seventeen parking places, two of which are handicapped access. MR. PALING-The exit is also right turn only? MR. NEALON-As was noted, the dead end (lost word) to the left. So I cannot say that there would never be a truck that might, by chance, want to turn to the left. MR. PALING-I wouldn't call it a dead end to the left. You're referring to Twin Channels, but there's an extension of Big Boom Road. I wouldn't call that a dead end. MR. NEALON-Well, it doesn't go anywhere. MR. RUEL-Yes. It is dead end. MR. NEALON-It is a dead end. MR. PALING-It is a dead end? MR. RUEL-Yes. There's a turn around right here. MR. PALING-But it was suggested by Staff that it be right turn only. MR. NEALON-Well, again, I don't have any statistics about the number of vehicles that might be turning down Big Boom Road, but from our experience, once a delivery is made or a pick up is had, the commercial use would be, exit back toward Main Street in West Glens Falls or the Northway. That would be a right turn. I cannot tell you, categorically, that there would never be an occasion when someone would turn left. MR. MARTIN-I could see, like, if you have a UPS delivery or something like that and that truck has a delivery further down Big Boom Road, they would make a left hand turn. MR. NEALON-And as it happens, Mr. Seeley happens to live to the left, coming out of there. I'm not going to tell him that he can't turn home, but in customer usage, the bulk of the traffic, 95 percent of the traffic would be turning to the right. MR. BREWER-Okay. Do you want to go on with the Staff notes? MR. NEALON-In terms of the silt fences, and so on, we have, certainly, no quarrel with following those requirements, along with the reseeding and mulching and stabilization requirements. There are no fills on this plan, and I'm really not sure where Rist-Frost gleaned there would be fill to this plan. There is no fi II . MR. MACNAMARA-On the grading plan we proposed grades that are significantly grades, as far as this plan goes, and this with you if you'd like. have, there are clearly greater than the existing I'll be glad to go over MR. NEALON-All right. Well, I wasn't aware. CRAIG SEELEY MR. SEELEY-As we discussed with Staff, our object was to approach this without having to bring in additional fill. With the - 34 - 1"'"gíadinÇJ that "'Je '\.Ie dons, we '\Je been able to e. sentially, what you're looking at right there, by w1at already existed. accommodate, moving around M,I. MACNAMARA-Okay, and again, I'm just working with the drawing t at was submitted, as of October 7th. So I don't have any b nefit of whatever has occurred. M . BREWER-So if there's another drawing, you want to look at t at, is what you're saying? M\. MACNAMARA-Well, if you want us to look at things that we WI uld typically look at on a site plan. M~. BREWER-Yes, I think so. M\. MACNAMARA-And it sounds like they're already all addressed. S( it should not be an in\/olvecl proce:3S. M,. PALING-Well, lets talk about that regrading for a minute. If I see this site right, this regrading that you're doing right n w, and this asphalt and concrete block and all that going in as p~rt of this fill. Is that right? M~. SEELEY-No, not on this site. M,<. priLH~G-t\lot on this si to;·?, That's beyond hø,·e. M.. BREWER-Isn't this site one parcel? 1"1,". NEALOi\ -I"~ot on this planned de\.lelopment. There is no fill t,at's involved. M\. BREWER-But I guess I've got to ask OU1" attorney a question. I - we went and looked at this site, Mark, I have a problem with t1at. This is a 14 acre parcel. This particular spot where he's bJilding the building there's no fill, but right behind it over h "re to the north, there is fi 11. I mean, do Vie consider that Ole site, or do we just talk about the space that the building's gJing to take up?' M~. SCHACHNER-I don't think there's a hard and fast answer to t,at. A~3 Lunderst.and it, it is one property. I think Staff has c nsidered t.hat issue, and if I can paraphrase what I recall from t1e Staff comments, Staff says that, something like from the Panning perspective, as I understand it, t.hese act.ivit.ies are s fficiently separated, so it's Staff's feeling that from a P .anning perspective they're separate. If that's true. M\. BREWER-Specifically, that's the issue down below with the s~ream. We're talking about, when yOU drive into the site, and W3 don't know exactly where the buildings are going to be, and we w_nt out and looked at a clearing, and there's cløarly fill, t-ees, brush, asphalt, cement, cement trucks dumping there, over il this back corner. Now do we consider that part of the p-operty, or do we ignore that and talk just to where the blilding is going? M~. SCHACHNER-Well, it's clear, from what you're saying, and I h ve no first. hand knowledge of the facts at all and I've c~rtainly not been to the site, but from what you're saying, the a( ti\/ity ~lou're talkin9 al)out, the fillini;J act.ivit.y, I take it., i$ occurring on the same property, and I take it, I'm having t"ouble fathoming if you're saying it's pretty near or contiguous to or adjacent. t.o 0" fa,- f'"om. M . BREWER-It's within the clearing area that he cleared. M<. SCHACHNER-Of the same proposal that's on t.he table here? If t1at's the case, it sounds like it's something you can certainly - 35 - take into account and be concerned about, and I take it, in that sense, it's separate from or different than the stream work that was otherwise discussed? MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, it is. MR. BREWER-Totally different. MR. SCHACHNER-Okay. Yes, then it sounds like it's a legitimate concern. MR. PALING-Well, would either Mr. Seeley or someone, then. tell me, I was on the site today, and at the far left hand edge of your print there were concrete blocks piled that you're disposing of in there. Locate those on this print for me. MR. SEELEY-They're off the edge of the proposed clearing. MR. PALING-Located in building. reference to the equipment storage MR. SEELEY-North of that. MR. PALING-How far? MR. SEELEY-One hundred feet. MR. PALING-One hundred feet, and then you've got a very steep drop off. Okay. I don't want to be concerned with any other part of this whole proposal except what's up on top, that we looked at. I don't want to talk about the lov,¡er part, but I do think we should talk about that part, because you've been filling that and grading it, the stumps and all kinds of stuff in there, and I'm concerned that it's done in a proper way, and that the grading and landscaping be what it should be. MR. SEELEY-Myself and Mr. Martin reviewed these issues last week. MR. MARTIN-Right. I gave him a section on soil erosion standards. copy of 179--65, are four page MR. SEELEY-We are complying with O,"dinances in the way that it is complies with all your standards. all State and being built. local Zoning It completely MR. BREWER-Okay, and L have a question, I think. If it's greater than 10 feet, Bob, and I think it is, then shouldn't we not have ou,- enginee,- look at it, is ~ question, with a new map? MR. PALING-Well, I think that, I'm not sure where you started your filling, and it may be that it's out of where that storage building is, where you started doing what you're doing now. MR. SEELEY-No. I disagree with you completely. MR. PALING-All right. Well, you should know. Have we checked to see that this burial is being done right? Do we know that it is, the stumps and the trees and all? MR. SEELEY-Staff was on site. MR. MARTIN-Scott was there. I think that's later that same morning, that was, what, Wednesday, Thursday? MR. SEELEY-Yes, and since that point we've taken additional measures to separate and single layer anything that is being filled to make sure there are no hollow spots. MR. MARTIN-Because the thing to remember about erosion control, the erosion control standards and the Zoning Code differ from the - 36 - S bdivision Regulations. m; terial to be filled. The Zoning Code allows for organic M{. PALING-I'm not questioning the material that's being used. I m questioning, possibly, how it's being layered, but more so t,e appearance of this 100 foot beyond the storage building is a v~ry steep bank, and unless something is done with that, it's g)ing to be a hell of an erosion problem there. M MARTIN-So you're saying the bank should be stabilized? M PALING-Yes, and regraded. It's too steep and unstable, both. M MARTIN-Well, we'll continue to monitor the filling there and m; ke sure it'~; being done in compliance ¡'Jith our Code, because t is does speak to that type of a thing. M,. BREWER-All right. Well, what about the stuff that's already b¡ried, Jim? M~. MARTIN-Scott's been to the site, and what's been buried? M,. HARLICKER-It appears that what has been buried was, they dJmped the concrete and then pushed dirt on it. Off to the r'ght, there was the stumps. When I was there, it did not look 1 ke they had started to cover up the stumps yet, with topsoil. T ey were stacked up. They were piled. They were pushed over t,e edge, but there wasn't any, as far as L could tell, there w~sn't any dirt piled on top of the stumps yet. 1'1 ~ . SEEl_EY--That. is sti 11 m, intained as two separate f lIed in. the case. piles, and They ¡'-Ii 11 be are still layered as~ bein9 it is M~. HARLICKER-Now, I can't speak to what was underneath what I WtS standing on. It appeared to be that's where they were d mping the concrete and pushing dirt in on top of it. M MARTIN-Concrete's an acceptable form of fill. M\. BREWER-Agreed. I'V:. OBERi'1¡::',\YER'-If it's broken up, though, not in o~ay, because, really, you're going to create voids O~ay. You'll have big voids in the road. huge chunks, in the fill. M<. MARTIN-Just like with tree limbs or anything like that. It w)uld have to be layered, then, so you don't create the voids and t e pockets. M OBERMAYER-That's right. M,. BREWER-Then what the question is, is that stuff that we were sanding on, where the trucks were, was that properly done? How d "'JEO k nOl;,J that? M~. MARTIN-I wasn't there. i~'s being done p)~opel·ly~ d, y. ~my time I can't we've been there, it appears speak to every minute of the M . BREWER-No. I understand that, but nobody was aware of it u1til last Thursday, Wednesday. Is there a way to determine if t )at was done properly, Bill? M,. MACNAMARA-Short of re-excavating, you may be able to glean Sl me information out of a test boring, if you will, try to s,lvage some kind of a retrievable cross section. I know so 1 tt1e about "'Jhere it's been fillecl 0)- any of that nat.ure, I r'''ally offer any specific guidance. - 37 - MR. BREWER-Can you go look at it? MR. MACNAMARA-At the request of the Board, I could certainly go look at it. I also don't know, it's also important to know what the use is going to be of the filled area, when it's completed. I don't know if it's going to be under one of these proposed structures or if it's off on the, I don't know anything about it. MR. BREWER-Probably not, because it's a very steep slope on the back side of it. So I don't believe that they'd put a building on it, but, I mean, if you keep filling that, who knows what's going to happen in five years? Who knows what's going to happen next.. yea,-? MR. NEALON-Might I suggest to the Board that it is not Mr. Seeley's proposal before this Board that any structure be erected on that area. If it were not the subject of fill operation, there would be a gully (lost word). The proposed development before you is before you tonight in order that we may be able to get footings in the ground before we have freezing. The structure or series of structures which can be erected, and Mr. Seeley's business is currently being conducted on Glenwood Avenue, to be moved (lost word) promptly on completion of the building. We have conferred with Staff over the ingress and egress issues and the other safety concerns with the Staff, siting concerns with Staff, in order to move forward in an orderly fashion, with the machine shop and welding shop. We would certainly, and it is in Mr. Seeley's interests, to fill that in a manner consistent with regulations that Mr. Martin has referred to, and that's being done. I would ask the Board to allow Staff to monitor this, if it so desires. Mr. Seeley will certainly cooperate with Mr. Martin and Scott in doing that, but I would also ask this Board to take credence where we are on the calendar and the desirability of this site for the intended use, as evidenced in this report to the Board. We have submitted to the Staff tonight, a proposal to rezone the lower portion of this parcel, 14 acres, to take that out of a Light Industrial and move it into the Residential, SR-1A, use, and further a portion to the upper level. That would come before the Town Board, and perhaps this Board (lost word). MR. BREWER-But that has nothing to do with this. MR. NEALON-That really doesn't have anything to do with this. We've submitted the paperwork for the new (lost word) tonight, as a matter of fact, and we're addressing the other issues that were some concern for the Board and the neighbors at the last meeting, but we are asking the Board to take note of the intentions here, for the site, a Light Industrial use. It's consistent with what we believe the stated purpose of these lands, light industrially zoned land. Certainly, from what I would represent to this Board, that is a sense of the Town Attorney and others within the Town, this use, particular use before you on this site, is both consistent with Town planning and a desirable use. We'd be happy to answer any questions (lost word) and we believe the plans we've submitted today are going to address those issues of what happens at East Branch Road (lost word). MR. BREWER-Okay. That has nothing to do with this, but it's just my position that that land is all one parcel right now, whether you've got an application in or not. I would like our engineer to make sure that that has been properly filled. I don't have a problem with the machine shop or the storage or the welding shop. I think it's an appropriate use, and it's an appropriate place, but I would like to know for sure that that has been done right. Nobody was aware of it until last Thursday. We have new plans coming in. I would like our engineer to look at the new plans, to make sure that that's properly done. That's just my position. I don't have any problem with it, the other three buildings. They're located right. You've said you're going to move it up. - 38 - I just would like to have all of our ducks in a row. We can hear f"om everybody else. I don't know. M~. OBERMAYER-I ì",~tention pond" have a question, as far as the stormwater Has that been engineered yet, Charlie? M\. SCUDDER-Not finally. No. M~. OBERMAYER-Maybe we can include that on the drawings, too, the s ormwater retention basin, and the proximity to the property, a d the distances away from the water line. M,,< . SCUDDER-t.-Je would be (lost wo,"d) the my lars to the PIa nni na D!partment, addressing the concerns of the engineering staff. If t1e Board feels constrained to address the issues of the fill, I w uld respectfully submit that that is an issue which is, t chnically, addressable and certainly ought not delay its c nsideration. M\. BREWER-I think in a week's time we could get that done, c1uldn't we, Bill? M~. MACNAMARA-I think it would help if we knew where your p-oposed buildings were, in relationship to wherever this filling i,'sue is that's of concern to you. M . OBERMAYER-I think the stormwater basin, also, would be nice tl see on the drawings, too, to where that's going, exactly. M,. BREWER-We can do it so, we do have another meeting next TJesday. If we can get the stuff to Bill, let him examine it, 1 t him check the fill, I'd be happy to put you on the agenda n~xt Tuesday and make sure everything is done to our s3tisfaction, if that's what I'm hearing. M? RUEL-And move the location of the buildings. M<. BREWER-Yes, on the map so that we have that. M~. SCUDDER-The locations have been moved on the maps that have b en submitted. M~. BREWER-But we need a submission for this. So we can get the s me time as Barrett's information? M? MARTIN-Would we have ability for Mr. Scudder and Bill to c nfer directly and get these issues addressed? Could that be dIne? M BREWER-You can arrange to meet with him, Bill, to go out to t e site? SCUDDER-We can be ready for next Tuesday, Mr. Chairman. M BREWER-As long as we have the stuff Friday, so we can review i ourselves. Is that a problem? M SCUDDER-~~o . M MACNAMARA--As long as it's not on Friday. M'<. BREWER-No. That's between you two. M. MACNAMARA-But, again, it would help if you had the relocated s ructures so we could see where the structures are and where the i,sue is that the Board is concerned with. I'm not familiar with w1at has occurred. M,. BREWER-If you'd like, I'd be free to go with you and show you t e area concerned, where the fill is, or maybe another member - 39 - v.JOU 1 d . I do n ' t k nov.J . MR. MACNAMARA-Surely. I mean, that would help me to know where your concerns are. ~1R. BREl-JER-Okay. MR. PALING-I can go if you want, because I'm free during the day. MR. BREWER-Sure. Jim, just a question. What about the, one thing I would like Staff to look at, also, we saw, when the trucks were dumping there, concrete is classified as a clean fill, or whatever, but we saw a stream of water running down the back side. Can we find out where it goes? MR. MARTIN-Yes. I can look into that. MR. BREWER-What it goes into, is it creating a problem? MR. PALING-The water was used in the cleaning of, I believe, the concrete trucks. They were dumping back there. As long as it doesn't go any place, we're okay, but if it got to a stream or something, there would be a problem. MR. BREWER-Well, no, I'm saying there was a stream of water running down that ravine, and I don't know where it goes to, but I'd like to know. MR. OBERMAYER-What are you planning on doing with all the scrap oil that you're going to generate? I mean, you're going to generate oil in the machine shop. MR. NEALON-The machines that computer aided machine tools. are used in this facility are The oils and so on are recovered. MR. SEELEY-The only oils machines, and that's a individual machine. The based, biodegradable. used are for the lubrication of the self contained system within each cutting lubricants used are synthetic MR. BREWER-Does he need one of those sheets, Haz Mat? MR. MARTIN-Do you store this on site, any of your cutting oils or lubricants? MR. SEELEY-Well, they aren't cutting oils, per se. synthetic lubricants. They're MR. MARTIN-Are any of them considered to be, like, flammable or hazanJous? MR. SEELEY-All of them are biodegradable. MR. BREWER-Do you have MSDS Sheets on them? MR. SEELEY-No. Most of them don't require them. Well, actually, some of them come in with them. MR. BREWER-Maybe you can just check with Jim. MR. MARTIN-The reason why we have that, Craig, is I give them to the Fire Marshal, and he passes them on the fire district. t·1R. SEELEY-Yì3S. customers. I spoke with Chief Palmer. He's one of my' MR. MARTIN-I'll give you a sheet, and you can fill out whatever's appropriate, and then I'll pass it on to the Fire Marshal. MR. MACNAMARA-Biodegradable is, I heard you say that, but you - 40 - d( n't r'outirH21y dump that into your sanitary s)-'st.em? M~. SEELEY-No. It's all recovered. It never leaves the machine. M. MARTIN-Is it, like, recycled within the machine for use time a lei a9ain? 1'1,\. SEELEY--Ye:,;". I,.Je do ha\I(~ eva¡:::'o'(ation I.>Jr'lere IrJe 'yø constant~l\/ a ding more to it, but the existing really never goes anywhere, e:cept for what you would get as mist into the atmosphere. MARTIN-I see. SEELEY-And you'll get, yoU know, whøre you'll have to wipe machinery down occasionally. It'll get misted, but other that. M\. OBERMAYER-Is there any øxhaust ventilation w ldlng processes or anything like that that p"rmits for? for an;l of thø you require air SEELEY-N() . 1'1,"" OBERMAYER.-You don't exhaust o e ì" at ion? or ventilate ;lour welding 1'1 ,< . I -, ' s SEELEY-Our welding is very minor. We don't do a lot of it. a secondary portion of our business. M,. OBERMAYER-You'rø building a pretty big building, thøn, for j,tst. M~. SEELEY-We have a lot of stuff. M~. OBERMAYER-So you'll be doing a lot of welding? M~. SEELEY-No. I wouldn't say so. No more than what we do now. M-<. BREl^"ER-'Is it all one buslness, or t.hree businesses? M. SEELEY-I havø two businesses there. I have Air Locks P'oduction Products and I have Seeley Machinery. M'.. BREWER-So what's the machine shop? S,'e18/ ¡Vlachi ne? Is that part of thø M<. SEELEY-That's part of Seeley Machine and Air Locks, as well. M? BREWER-And the storage building. ~:; .,01 age? What's going to gO in the M.. SEELEY-Storage equipment. I''I? Bf?EI,..IEP·'·l,Jhat lei nd of equipment? I'm just CUì' ious. M~. SEELEY-Machine tools, bulldozørs, back hoes, dump trucks. M? BREWER-(dl your" ov,Jr st.uff, or Ü:; that going t.o be Glenn's bminess there? M~. SEELEY-Well, I have two bulldozers and the dump truck m;lself t. at will go in t.hele. M\. BREWER-Okay, but I guess I'm asking you, is Glenn's business t ìGì"e also? SEELEY-He's going to stOfØ equipment there. 08ERMAYER-Is there any cooling water used or anything? - 41 - MR. SEELEY-No. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. MR. MACEWAN-Just out of curiosity, how did the number of moving the entrance 40 feet up the road, how did you come about that number? I mean, why not 100 feet or 60 feet? I guess maybe what I'm getting at, is there any reason why it couldn't be moved 100 feet up the road, to make it even safer? MR. SEELEY-Yes. Then you would be into that deep ravine which is being filled in now. MR. MACEWAN-Which would make is unsuitable basically, is what you're saying. to build on, 1'1R. SEELEY-Yes. MR. NEALON-There is a potentially flat area. MR. SEELEY-This utilizes the flat area furthest away from all the residents. MR. MACEWAN-What's the purpose of filling in the ravine, then, if it's not desirable? MR. SEELEY-Future development. MR. BREWER-Future development. Keep that in mind, Bill. MR. OBERMAYER-So you're going to continue to fill in the ravine, then? MF:':. SEELEY--Yes. MR. MACEWAN-Is there a way, would it be appropriate if we asked, this is geared toward Staff, that this area where he's filling on here, on the property, be denoted on the final plat to be signed, for any future expansion that may take place, that may present a problem down the road? MR. PALING-Either that, or we could put some kind of measurements on the area that we are approving. Maybe it'll accomplish the same thing that you're thinking about. MR. BREWER-Yes. Exactly what we did with Leo's. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. MR. PALING-Yes. In other words, we don't have any this part of the property, and there's question and the grading beyond this. dimensions on about the fill MR. MACEWAN-Well, unlike the Leo project, where if this is denoted on here that, you know, if he ever decides that down the road he wants to put up another building or an addition to that storage barn, that there's some sort of record of the fact that there was fill put there, because there's been some comments that if it wasn't done properly, or isn't done properly, it might not be able to sustain any kind of foundation for building over it in the future. MR. SEELEY-If that is that big an issue, I will excavate everything there just to show you people. MR. MACEWAN-I'm not trying to make it an issue. I'm just trying to make sure, you know, the old adage, cross all your T's, dot all your I's. MR. SEELEY-If you're going to try to say, well, you can't build - 42 - o that. because. M~. MACEWAN-That's not what I'm saying at all. M OBERMAYER-No. That's not what he's saying" What he's saying i, to mark it on the drawing, okay, where you have brought in the a ditional fill" That's all he's saying, so that in the future, d wn the line, they have a document to go by. That's what he's s " y i ng " M\. SEELEY-Well, you have your topographical map, which is going t clearly indicate what's been filled and what hasn't been f"lled. M.'L OBERI'1t~YER-That's great. ATe you going to indicate an)" fill? M~. BREWER-That's not shown ~~~ying. on here. Th t· (3, '" - ~3 e><act.ly \'-J ha t we' '" e M.. SEELEY-I do have a copy of that. As a matter of fact, St.aff h s a copy of a map t.hat shows cont.ours of the entire 14 acre p r cøl . M<. SCHACHNER-Yes, but I think what the Board is after is trying t find out where the fill activities are t.aking place. M\. BREWER-Exactly. M~. SCHACHNER-And I think Staff feels it doesn't have that Staff alywhere. Right? M . MARTIN-No. I don't have that. M<. SEELEY-They're taking place north of t.he building site. M~. BREWER-That's fine to say that, but, five years from now, s mebody comes in, they're not going to remember that Craig S-eløy said 100 feet from that building is fill. So if we can d,cument it. on the map. 1'1\. 1"1fiFnHl'''I;Jhat they're trying to ~~ay is just indicate a filled a"ea, and that would be the extent of it. M~ '\ . SCHACHNER-On a map. M" MARTIN-Just indicat.e it. on the plan. M~. SCUDDER-We'll show it plannemetrically, delineate it by b)lmdar ies. M~. PALING-And you'll have new contour lines to take, yes. M<~ RUEL-I've got a question~ Jim, does O"dinance or regulations on fill and sink p "Opos(3cl? the Town have an holes, or is this M~. MARTIN-The erosion control section I gave him is all we have u der a zoning code concern. Under subdivision we have further r gulations relating to erosion control and filling and that type 0= thing. So it's 179-65, and the answer is yes. 1'1 ",. RUEL-'f:¡r e w'¡ether it'f> there different sets of regulations, a subdivision or something else? depending on Mc. MARTIN-Yes. Subdivision regulations aTe under a differønt s.t of regulations which are actually somewhat more strict. M~. RUEL-And it includes a monitoring or check of what's being 0:::\ ) ne? - 43 - MR. MARTIN-Well, by virtue of the fact that it's in the Zoning Code, it would be subject to monitoring anyhow. A recent case happened where a property owner was filling on Egan Road, and Bill went out to the site, at the request of the Town, and looked at it and said this is not being done properly, and we had to stop and have it excavated out to some degree. So it's Town wide monitoring of erosion control standards that relate to that Section, by virtue of the fact it's in the Zoning Code. MR. RUEL-We just made a request that he should indicate where the fill is placed. Apparently, that's not part of the regulation. MR. MARTIN-No, but I can see where that makes sense to do that. MR. RUEL-It would be a good thing to add to the regulations. t1R. MARTIN-Yes. MR. BREWER-Okay. There is a public hearing scheduled. I will open it. Is there anyone that wishes to speak about this project? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED JOYCE EGGLESTON MRS. EGGLESTON-I think, before we give our comments, ~Jhen we see the final drawings, Mr. Chairman. MR. BREWER-Okay. MRS. EGGLESTON-And you'll just make sure, on the drawings, that the building, the footage between the storage building and the filled ravine will be on the map, and the buildings will be in the proper places with the road cuts? 1'1R. BREI;.JER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. Then we'll reserve our comments until then. Will you hold the public hearing open? MR. BREWER-We've never stopped anybody from speaking at all. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. Thank you. MR. BREWER-Okay. I'll leave the public hearing open, and we need your consent to table, until next Tuesday. Okay, and you will have the appropriate information. Just so you know what they are, the filled area on the map, the relocation of the egress. MR. MARTIN-From the buildings themselves. MR. BREWER-From the buildings themselves. MR. MARTIN-That's going to move the whole complex. MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Chairman, could they also show on there, how many foot the garage will hold, the storage building will hold? MR. BREWER-I think if we get the square footage of the building, Joyce, it'll tell us. MRS. EGGLESTON-And will they all be kept inside, or will they be allover the property? MR. BREWER-We'll go over that next time. MR. NEALON-The buildings themselves, the machine shop is 7200 square feet, as shown on the plans. That will not change. The weld shop, so called, is 4800 square feet, as shown on the plan. - 44 - T,at will not change. The proposed storage building is 7200 s uare feet. That will not change. The building sizes and r'lative locations to one another are identical to what you have. M, . BREl"'ER~Ok;3Y. Well, when VJe get the new maps, ~"Je'll realize tat" M\. OBERMAYER-And the stormwater retention basin, the location of tlat" M BREWER-The location of the stormwater retention basin. M MARTIN-Could I have this submitted by noon on Friday, so we h ve a chance to get it to you before the weekend? M BREWER-Yes; because we'd like it for the weekend, so we can s:t down and look at it. M~. MARTIN-Is that a problem? 1"1". SCUDDER·-~~o. M(. BREWER-Also, the landscaping plan. M.. OBERMAYER-Yes, where are you g01ng to be planting all the t-ees and shrubs and all that. M~. NEALON-We could attempt to address that. M~. BREWER-It's not a big problem, but if you could put it on the p an. I mean, if you went through Beautification, we'll i ¡corporate that in the motion. M~. SEELEY-As far as landscaping is concerned, we're going to e iminate a few more, less desirable trees, and landscape around wlat exists. As far as new plantings, there won't be any, except f,)r possible around trle sign and 9rassed area. M·. BREWER-Was that told to the Beautification Committee? 1"1,\. SEELEY·,·Ye::::>. M<. BREWER-And they approved it so that it's not a problem? B RB(~f~fê\ SEELEY 1"1 ,S. SEELEY--Yes. make it a point, do you go to the site with you? M. BREWER-Okay. Bill, you're 90ing to w,nt to contact Bob or myself and we'll M~. MACNAMARA-Yes. c 11 me, whenever o'her day is fine. Either or. I'd be glad to call you guys, you you have time. Friday's bad for me, but any M,. BREWER-Thursday afternoon, two o'clock? M~. MACNAMARA-Sure. That's fine with me. M~. PALING-Yes. That's fine. M~. BREWER-Where do you want to meet, at the site? M~. MACNAMARA-At the site's fine. M<. BREWER-Thursday afternoon, two o'clock. Y'u, Mr. Scudder? Is that fine with M<. SCUDDER-Yes. -- 45 - MR. BREWER-Okay. anythin9? Anything else from anybody? Are IrJe missing EDWARD FISHER MR. FISHER-As far as that property on the East Branch Road, at the east proper, and on my map, it shows that that piece of property belongs to me. So I'm paying taxes on that. He has all Big Boom Road and Twin Channels Road to get into his property. Why does he have to cross mine, which he does. He's opened that up so he can get big trucks in through there. On that map, that property does belong to me, which I'm paying taxes on it. I don't know why he'd have the right to go across property which I'm paying taxes on and I own. I've got all that other, up to the property. MR. BREWER-Jim, would you get that problem straightened out, please, if, in fact, there is a problem. MR. FISHER-That's on the East Branch Road. MR. BREWER-Okay. Mr. Martin will be in contact with you, Mr. Fisher, and we'll get that straightened out. Okay. All right. We need a motion to table. Mr. Fisher, Mr. Martin will address that problem and we'll have an answer for you. Maybe you can get his phone number, Jim. 1'1R. MARTIN-Yes. MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 33-94 CRAIG SEELEY, CHARLES SEELEY. GLENN BATEASE, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan: Until 10/25/94, for new plans showing: One, fill area to be shown, Two, relocation of buildings and curb cuts, Three, location of stormwater retention basin, and Four, landscaping plan, such as showing existing trees, new trees, etc. Duly adopted this 18th day of October, 1994, by the following vot.e: AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Stark DISCUSSION ITEM: MAP SUBMITTED BY DAVE KENNY - A SCHEMATIC LAYOUT PLAN FOR THE ROUTE 9 MALL. TOM NACE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. NACE-For the record, my name is Tom Nace, representing Haanen Engineering, representing Dave Kenny. We're here just as an informal, give you a quick first look at a project Dave is planning just north of the Days Inn, to get your reaction, get your feelings, and give you sort of a preliminary look at what you're going to see coming in next month as a site plan, or site plan review. We're talking about a commercial building, 60,000 square foot is the planned building footprint at this time. Dave is thinking that he may build this in stages. We'd like approval, when we come back we'll be looking for approval for the full 60,000 square feet. He may start off building 20 or 30,000 square feet of this, maybe in the middle, maybe at the front, depending on the leases that he arranges, as a first phase, and then following up, toward the end of the season, with additional structure. The piece of property is between the Days Inn and the - 46 - L)g Jam Outlet. It's a fairly narrow piece of property. It's v )-y deep~ The total property, I believe, is 14 aCl*8S, Dave? E even acres. Okay. 50 we're somewhat confined, and, thus, S10rt of looking at it down on, a birds eye view, it looks like a 1 )ng scar. One thing that we're, well actually a couple of t1ings that we think are going to mitigate that, one, the f)otprint you see here, which this is just a very preliminary to g t something in front of you, we're going to have some jogs in t,e building, and some varying roof lines that will help make the b ilding look like more than just a long, narrow strip of a bJilding. Okay. The roof line will step out as the building g es deeper, and maybe knock out the back here to make the back 1 ok a little more massive, to give it a little different p rspective. 50 when you're looking at it from Route 9, down the 1 ng length of that building, it'll be interesting, something t1at will catch the eye. M~. OBERMAYER-The ridge line would be continuous, though? M~. NACE-Not necessarily, The ridge line is, at this stage, w 're looking at the primary ridge line coming to the front, as a r~latively flat slope, and then the front having a mansard on it, ald there'll probably be some more steps in the building than w at you see here, and as those steps progress, the roof line will get higher, that ridge in the roof will keep getting higher, ald there'll probably be some gables in that to break it up, and w·'re even, at this point, looking at gables that would, instead o' being a gable facing the front of the building, would be a ¡gulated with faces of 45 degrees to the building. M~. RUEL-Are we talking about one store or several stores? M~. NACE-We're talking about several stores. I ase space may vary from 4,000 to, I don't Sluare feet. It all depends on the customers. Hot,) (fla ny? The know, 8, 10,000 M~. RUEL-Also, the parking area, is that connected with the Log J m n,?xt door? M~. NACE-Okay. The parking, we've done several things here, and J'm Martin is probably more aware than most of the Board members. T,ere was talk back, I don't know, a year or two years ago, Dave. I don't know how long it's been, about an access road that would e1entually go from Route 9 through this property, back adjacent t.> Tom M c Cor m a c k ' 23 ¡::n" 0 per t y and t h r 0 ugh Kin 9 , s pro per t y b a c k 0 u t t 149, that would be a bypass for north and east bound traffic t be able to turn off of Route 9 at this location and get around t is traffic light jam up at 149 intersection, if they wanted to g. eastbound on 149. M S. LABOMBARD-Who would construct that road, Tom? M ,. NACE-That would eventually be either a Town or State combined p"oject. M~5. LABOMBARD-I mean, have they actually brought that up? Has t1at been brought up? M~. NACE-Jim knows more about the history of that than I do. I k ov.,J that the ì' ight-of-way' \~Ias sort of S,~?t a~3ide here \>.,Jhen Tom M:Cormack was talking about his Phase III. D'iVE KENNY M.. KENNY-This is actually two separate sites, combined into one. W en Dana Bray owned the property years ago, there was a strip mall existing, right he,e. Their prope,ty line is UÜs property I ne here, and now this is 11 acres. We connected both pieces of p: reels, but at one time, when Dana B,ayowned it all, he slbdivided this, and what he did was put a 30 foot right-of-way - 47 - to this back site. That's only 30 foot wide, with an 82 foot cut in the road. Back in, probably, in 1990, when Tom McCormack came for (lost word) subdivision, at that point in time. MR. MARTIN-It was prior to that. It was explained to me that, see, the third phase of Courthouse Estates was going to kick the need for a second access point, MR. KENNY-Secondary access. Right. MR. MARTIN-And he couldn't supply that off of Glen Lake Road, so he proposed to have an access point through here. Initially, he tried to go through the County property and have it come out where the Exit 20 interchange occurs there. The County denied him, and then he tried to go to here, and I think the State turned down the idea of an access point at that point. I'm not SU"(? . MR. KENNY-Actually what happened there was the Planning Board required it. He came to me. It was one of these things the Planning Board said, we have to have a deed to the property. (lost word) this 30 foot right-of-way. The Planning Board (lost word) calls it a 50 foot road, for a roadway to be 50 foot wide (lost word) if the road was only 24 feet, just to give them a secondary access, it's not a primary access, and then the Town Board overrode the Planning Board and said we're not going to accept that as a road. MR. MARTIN-That was '87, I think. MR. KENNY-No. It wasn't '87. MR. MARTIN-I was on the Board in '90, and it was before me. MR. KENNY-It was probably '89, '88. So at that point, the Town came back and gave McCormack like 12 lots or 14 lots, to go forward, and they were going to go to the County and try to get it back (lost word) denied it. So the fact is it was only 30 feet wide, and nothing could be done with it. The old building that was on it, came within 15 to 20 feet of that right-of-way. Well, now demolishing this building, getting rid of it, (lost word) done with that 30 foot right-of-way, we're going to leave an extra 20 feet. So now it will be 50 foot, there will be room for a 50 foot roadway going through there. It's been mentioned by the State, the DOT study they'd like to see an access road along the back, and this was going to be one of the access points. Well it's there now. MR. MARTIN-I thought when we talked about this, Dave, and I know we had several discussion about this, that the section of the, what would be a new road, would be built with this project to the point where you need access for it, and that would be the main point of access to this new project, and then that would be extended on with a Town or State project to bring it all the way to 149, but you would build, essentially, the first section of it as access into this site. MR. KENNY-Well, there is. The access is into the site from this road, t.hat's in. MR. MARTIN-Yes, but I thought we'd see an actual, like, for all practical purposes, new road, to the point of, say, where your connecting driveways. MR. KENNY-Well, if the road isn't going to go in, it makes no sense to dig up all the trees and all the grass that's there, and destroy an awful lot of green space for a road that goes nowhere. I mean, the roadway, this roadway if you look at it here, the way it is now, this is all green space. That's going to remain green space. The only thing that's (lost word) is the access into here. If the road goes in, they're going to have to cut out the - 48 - g een space and the trees that are all planted along the adjacent p-operty. M.. MARTIN-Well, putting on my Town hat, as I'm supposed to do, I'd rather have you build that first section of road, and that's t ¡at much less that the Town has to build, to be quite honest i;11 ou tit. M~. NACE-Well, I think you're looking at a drop in the bucket, tlough, Jim. Okay. In the long vision, okay, as Dave says, the r ad really means that nothing for access to this site. There is p-esently sufficient access to this site to this site. The green s,ace presently does mean something. Okay. In the long term, if tlis road ever goes through and connects to 149, we're talking a10ut several thousand feet of road, maybe for a mile or a mile a Id a hal f of ,-oad, a nd we· ì'a ~d tti ng he,-e a,-gui n9 Ol..,'e," 200 feet 0': it. M~. KENNY-That will all be to grade. M" MACEWAN-Let me ask you a question. If t e road was never able, for whatever f-uition, you're now looking at another tìere, that people are going to be using in that back portion of reason, to come to curb cut you've got and out. M,. Mf~1RTIN-Yes, but what I'm saying is, p,"ovide that road, a iminata the two that are there, and then that road acts as a c_nt<:3ì- tlwoat fo,- all th<?se p,-opert.ies t.hat adjoin it., and t.he o~her thing that could happen is, you know, I know John McCormack i, at. least investigating the ideti of taking Phase III of C, urthouse Estates and making it, or requesting zone change on i., and we could have further retail development goin9 all the w,y out to the rear, here, and that road would then playa major r)le in accessing the rear portions of this propert.y, and M:Cormack's property. M,. NACE-Well, lets go back. You r-moving the two existing curb cuts. e iminate this one, or just move it r'ght.-of-way. I don't think you'd b~cause you still want the possibility p'operties along here. Okay. said something there about Okay. It might be able to down a little into that want to eliminate this, of frontal access between MARTIN-Okay. I agree with that, M " NACE-So I don't think that that's a desirable option, and I t )ink that, you know, if this property back here does go for a r zoning and some of that turns into commercial site plans, then I agree, then that's the time to, you know, we're providing the a 'ailability of that ,-ight-of-vJa;l. We'n:3 keeping Oln- parking set b,ck far enough to be able to do that. I think that, lets not m ke this project gerrymander into something that mayor may not b~ required for some future possibility, okay, just for a couple o· hundred feet of road here. M,. MACEWAN-Has there been land dedicated all the way through, f-om that part of Route 9 all the way back to 149? M,. MARTIN-No. I'm going to go speak to the effected property o~ners, of which, from what I recall of the map, it can be done s ch that it's, potentially just Dave Kenny and the Kings. M, , MACEWAH--We<Ll, what do 'lOU d·,) if t.he ,-est. of them don't \¡,Jant t) do it? M~. MARTIN-There's only one other property owner. M ). MACElAIAN-What if he cloe::::n' t wa nt to do it? M~. MARTIN-Well, then it's a problem. Then he can't do it. - 49 - MR. ~1ACEWAN-Okay. Lets suppose he does want to do it, but then who's going to be responsible for constructing this road? If he's nice enough to say he'll do the first quarter mile of it, who'll do the other mile and a quarter? MR. MARTIN-The other practical problem is we have to cross the bike path. MR. KENNY-Right. I mean, if the road goes through (lost word) major improvement to the 149 Corridor. What we're preparing to do, here, is just, I'm willing to say, along this access, I'll give up another 25 feet of property and at this point in time say it's available for a road. Not only that, I'll give up the 50 feet, where this right-of-way ends, which is right here, all the way back to the end of the property. I'll give up another 50 feet if a road goes through. MR. MARTIN-The only thing, the philosophical base I'm coming from is, and I'll be quite blunt about it. The Town has been accused of, you know, this is constantly cited, this section of road, as an example of the poor planning that went on, and nobody had a vision for what this ultimately could build out to be, and if we had done so, we wouldn't have the traffic problems we have on there, and all that, and I, quite frankly, as a Planner for the Town, am tired of hearing that comment. So I'm trying to respond to it, now, and plan for that future. That's all I'm saying. MR. KENNY-The other thing 1S, what this site is doing is interconnecting in two locations, not one, but two, the Days Inn parking lot, the Adirondack Outlet Mall parking lot, both park in back. I have no control over Lake George Plaza that was built, that I can't connect to, and the possibility that I will connect to the Log Jam property, if somebody (lost word). MR. MARTIN-And I commend you for the interconnection. dismiss that. I don't MR. BREWER-That was my question. This, on the back side, maybe, is it possible to approach the Log Jam, connect with them? MR. KENNY-That's what I propose to do, also, but again, that's up to the Log Jam. They have a roadway going in back of their property, okay. It's 12 foot wide. What I propose to do is come to that (lost word) and put my back roadway, and connect it to theirs, widen that road from 15 to probably 30 feet. It will still only be used for trucks and for access to the back of those stores, but now if you have an emergency back there, or anything happens back there, you'll have a much wider road. At the back end, we could connect it, but it's not a traffic (lost word). MR. MACEWAN-A variance will be required for that, won't it, for t.hat back road? MR. KENNY-No. MR. MACEWAN-Is there a setback or something? MR. NACE-No. MR. MACEWAN-We don't have to worry about him putting macadam right up to the property line like that? 1'1R. BREI"JER-No. MR. MARTIN-No. There's no buffer because it's adjoining zoning. You haven't talked to the other property owner about that shared access road, though, yet? MR. KENNY-About this here? - 50 - M<. MARTIN-That road crossing on his property? M\. KENNY-We're showing it, if they don't allow c me through here. They have an access here. I,) 11 i ng to. it, this would If they would be M,',;" MARTIN-I'm talking about the position of that fire, it looks lLke you're trying to meet that fire code. That road is crossing o 1to other. M~. KENNY-I have not spoken to her about that, about sharing that r ad, us making that a wider road, and, one, I wanted to get the Panning Board's opinion. M\. MARTIN-No. Shared is the wrong a('tually positioned on someone else's r ad. word. You show this road property, thiS rear access 1"1,\. KENNY-That's there al ready" That's their road back there. W at I'm saying 1S connecting to that. This half is here. It's e'isting. It's on their property. That's existing, today. M . BREWER-What he wants to do is just put the other half of the r ad there. M(. KENNY-The dotted line, that road is right through there now. T1ey corne right up to my property, and what we're saying is we'll w den that" M~. BREWER-The thing, though, I think if you worked l'ttle bit and you made a connection to the back side Jim, I know it doesn't look like something good right m~E:ln, if they \.Janted to \.Jo,"k with you, and you made a i '] the bac k, people woql d. go ar ou nd the bac k . together a of the Loq nO"'J, but I connection M\. KENNY-We do have a connected. We show it connected, if you look where it is. M~. BREWER-I know exactly where t 1i nk they could do sorn6 WO)" k t ley're in your mall or they're t ey want to com6 to this mall. it is. I,..je drove around it" I and make that work, so that if in the Factory Outlet Mall and M,. KENNY-What I would like to do, if I owned the Log Jam Mall, w ¡at I would do, I would not do that" What I would do is at this pJint here, okay, cut this building and put a 24 foot walkway t rough, straight through into the Log Jam site could park, i1stead of walking all the way around, have it pass through the b ildings. I can't tell them to tak6 24 foot out of th6ir b ilding and make a nice walkway through there, but that would be t 10 ul.timat~,. M~. BREWER-Talk to them. Maybe they would do it. How do you kl0W unless you talk to them? M\. KENNY-And I would gladly talk to them about that. M . MARTIN-Do you know if they have any vacant sections of their b!ilding in through there? M,~. KENNY-Not that I'm aware of. You're talking about developing 1,000 square feet of buildinq and th6n the expense of building t Ie walkway, which I think would be ideal, and that they, with a 1 this parking being here, say, ge6, that would be nice. M~. BREWER-Maybe they would. M<. KENNY-Right, I mean, thats a possibility. 1'1- . MARTIN-I don't have a problem being the vehicle to - 51 - accommodate that discussion. MR. KENNY-I mean, if you're talking about the roadway (lost word) it's much more practical to get cars to park here, like even, Jim said to me, what if the parking lot is too big. I said, well, the one problem I have, Jim, when cars park here, it's the center location on the road, and if I could make (lost word) put the sidewalks in here, when cars park here, to walk from here to the log Jam to the Adirondack Outlet Mall, to the French Commons, without moving, which I believe they will do because it's right in the middle, it's going to keep that car from moving to three different parking lots, which you really don't want. I realize you want to connect the parking lots, but we don't want cars going from parking lot to parking lot, I don't believe. MR. BREWER-Ask the Log Jam. Maybe they would think it's a great idea. MR. KENNY-Well, I would like to see a pedestrian walkway through the middle somewhere. MR. BREWER-Ask them. I mean, you never know unless you ask them. MR. RUEL-It would have to be covered. MR. KENNY-Right. It would have to be covered. It would have to be done properly, but that's a possibility, but some of the problems that exist up there, I think this site plan, if you come up along here, we'll be giving a 35 foot buffer up along the road, with green space and trees not existing now. We'll be getting rid of this row there. There'll be a second road cut here, and there's a right-of-way to Tom McCormack's property, and at some point in the future he may say, you may say, we want this 50 foot road, just to go back in there. If Tom McCormack wants to finish this subdivision, housing development, now he has to (lost word) and at the time I dedicated this property to him, turned it over to him, the Planning Board at the time asked me to, (lost word). That was a done issue. t1R. t1ART IN-Has he seen this plan? 1'1R. KENNY-Has Tom seen this particulaì- plan? MR. MARTIN-Or John? MR. KENNY-No, Tom hasn't. I told John what I was going to do, I was going to leave the road possibility open. He called me, probably a month ago, and said, where is at. I said, as far as the roadway, we're allowing 50 feet, but if anything down from 149 (lost word). If Ken goes for it, and it can be done, what it would do, it would create all the traffic, my suggestion at the time was make that a one way road, two way road in between, but access onto 149, the last 100 feet, just one way out to 149. So, in other words, traffic that was internal could go both ways, but no traffic could come in off 149 onto it. MR. MARTIN-In other words, you wouldn't have the left hand turn. MR. KENNY-You wouldn't have a left hand turn onto 149. would be one way out turning right to go to Vermont. So it MR. BREWER-One other thing, it would be nice to see a little bit of green in this parking lot. It's a pretty big parking lot. MR. MARTIN-That's the other comment I had. MR. KENNY-This whole strip, we talked about parking. This whole strip, and Jim, (lost word) gives up the parking requirement to get more green area, and I said, that's not a good idea. I just think it's a mistake. So, to me, I have no problem taking this - 52 - wl01e strip as a but in the road, and this would be all green s)ace (lost word) but what will happen is the blacktop will end h~re and there will be a landscaped line there where the grass a uts it and if someone needs parking, they could park on that Gi "ass. M~. MARTIN-What I'm saying, we've done it in the past, is we've a proved areas that are reserved for parking, but not put it u der pavement. I, quite frankly, feel that our parking code is ally designed for maybe the worst five or ten percent time of the y ar, which is Christmas or something like that, and the rest of tle time, or often times it's left open. M,. BREWER-That's g"een area in the l'ttle bit. "'Jhat I 'm ~3ugge~3t.ing is maybe a little bit of cent.er of the parking lot to break it up a M,. KENNY-This will all be green space here and here. There'll b green space, I mean, if you look at any of my buildings I've b ilt along the road, everyone has green space in front of the blilding, Like this is a 12 foot walkway. We don't have the p ant.ings that will be all along here. There will be between the bJilding and the parking a row of shrubs. Some will be used for pi rking, some will be used for green space, all along here. So w.'re giving 35 feet all along the road. Now I could break that U), with 15 feet, to have some green area, but to me you have a n'ce 35 foot section. It looks a lot more attractive than having l,ttle green spaces allover the place. I mean, to me, I try to p t the bulk of the green space out by the road, where it's going t,) I:)e (lost "'Joid) and eventually go back to the Days Inn and the A irondack Outlet. Mall, green strip down there (lost word). T tat's what I would like to see. M~. HARLICKER-Why can't you do both, put some in the parking lot a d some out on the road? You've got stretches here of, what is i', 40 some spaces, wit.hout a break in them, and you're looking dnwn this;, it seems like a lot. M<. NACE-Okay. Well, our thought was the same as Dave expressed ot here. It's better to have large, wide areas where you can g. t some sizeable trees growing, and really present a visual b: rrier, okay, to the remaining parking, than little planter i lands where, if you're lucky, you can get an eight foot shrub. M,S. LABOMBARD-I mean, the cars are all in there. g ing to see anything anYl..¡ay. You're not M~. HARLICKER-If you take one of those parking spaces, that.'s n ne feet wide. that's big enough to put a tree in. M,. KENNY-Yes, but it doesn't show anything from the road. If y u look at the Adirondack Outlet Mall now, (lost word) green s'ace back in the middle of the parking lot, with all the trees a d the shrubs in there. We have flowers in it.. It adds to it. W th lit.tle green spaces all around the parking lot, it doesn't, t, me, that's: my opi nion. I mf3an, I could mako this 20 feet., i stead of parking this way, but I think the critical space would b'J along t.he road. M,. HARLICKER-Well, why do you have to give up the space in the f"ont in order to put? KENNY-Well, you don't meet the parking requirements. HARLICKER-How much longth have you got going out back here? this the edge of your property line where this is? M KENN,!'-No. M,. HARLICKER-Didn't you put some of the parking back here, and - 53 - break it up here? MR. KENNY-Well, I mean, if you're to put parking all the way in the back here, it's going to become not usable parking, and they've done it, and it proved not to work. It's proved to create more problems. MR. HARlICKER-But what I'm saying is, if you put in parking islands here, you'd lose, two, four, six, maybe eight to ten spaces. That could easily be accommodated back here. That's all I'm saying. MR. BREWER-Yes. It's just that, when you, the green space, granted, is great out by the road, but when you get by that and you just look and you see just blacktop and cars. MR. KENNY-If I was to do something like that, what I would prefer to do is eliminate six spots along here, and make this one bigger, and make this one bigger. To me, that is, you know, rather than putting little places. MR. BREWER-Why do they have to be little? MR. HARlICKER-You could stick a full size tree in a nine foot wide parking spot. MR. KENNY-Yes, if you put a nine foot wide parking space in there, and in the winter time, to properly landscape it, 100 feet square area, I don't believe you can really, if I have a 400 square foot area, I'd like to have a nice 400 square foot area in a nice location than four 100 square foot areas. I think your landscaping plan would be a lot better. That's my opinion. I could make a lot of 100 foot Clost word) which is plenty big. I agree, but when the snow comes, they're going to be covered with snow. You're not going to have it really nice. MR. BREWER-A 400 square foot area is going to be covered with snot,.J, too. MR. NACE-You can (lost word) in landscaping. If you only have a 10 or 15 foot wide space, okay, you've got one tree in the middle of it, you can't have (lost word). MR. HARLICKER-For instance, if you take two of these parking spaces that are lined up, you'll have something that's nine feet by forty feet. If you take two parking spaces that are lined up back to back, it's going to be nine feet wide, and forty feet lonq. MR. KENNY-Right. I mean, it's a question of the Code. MR. HARlICKER-Right, it's about at that meeting, landscaping is important. there, agreed to it. MR. KENNY-Right. I agree, I think road. That's why we're keepinq, I road of green space, that's going to not in the Code, public hearing Ever/body in but, as we talked we had last week, this room, you were the best thing mean, 35 feet add a lot more. is along the back off the MR. 8REWER-I think we're qoing nowhere. MR. OBERMAYER-I think we're beating this to death. MR. BREWER-But on the same hand, /ou could take four parking places and make a nice area here and a nice area here. MR. KENNY-If that's what the Board desires, fine, we'll take four spaces out of here, and put another one like that. I don't have a problem with that. - 54 - Mf,. MARTIN-Before we leave the discussion of this project, t, mention two dirty words, but I've got to mention T "affic ~3tudy. I hate them. M'. KENNY-Traffic studies, I mean, will this impact traffic. M. . t'1AF~Tn,I-'You ',-e 90ing to IV1ve to prepare for DOT. M\. KENNY-Right. I believe DOT has Just come back, two years a: 0, which was a much worse desirable location than this Board B)proved a 60,000 square foot building on the Dexter lots, which i 3 nothing (lost word) defunct today. M . BREWER-I agree with you. I don't think a traffic study is n cessary, but. t.hat's just IJlL opinion. I mean, ~',Je knov~ what's t.1ere. It's just. wast.ing money. i'1,. Mi"-iRTII\I"You're going to have t.o prepare somethinSJ for DOT, b'cause I know you're saying, Dave, that you're essentially '(?placing. M~. NACE-There's no new curb cuts. M. KENNY-We're shutting off a road cut. M~. MARTIN-They're going to say we've got a 13,000 square foot bJilding. You're adding 60,000 square feet, What's the t.rip g'neration coming from that building, because you're going to be d mping capacity out onto to t.heir road. M,. KENNY-But, I mean, DOT, I'm not putting a road cut. I'm not PJtting an exit. on my property. They can't t.ell me I can't build 01 it. I don't think I have a DOT problem. M,.. MARTIN-I'm not saying I agree a traffic st.udy is an exact s~ience, but I'm just saying that. M '. KENNY-I mean, my reason (lost. word) t.he Planning Board, look t.,) them and say, if you think the green space up here, you knol',) , I'd like to sit down wit.h you where we can draw it in, and I w uld like to talk to a landscape architect and see, what would h) pn::~fer. M\. MACEWAN-Have you talked to the Beautification Committee at all yet? M,. KENNY-No. Generally I'll do what they ask me. I'm probably t,e only developer out there t.hat's put I intend, which I thought w s t.he Town Code, but apparently it's not, to have green space b3tween my parking lot and the building. It's not shown here. I ,'s shown as 12 foot wide, but there will be four foot of green s 'ace all along the building, l'Lith t'"ei3S and slwubs, like the Alirondack Outlet Mall (lost word). That same effect will be all a ong here. So there will be green space all along here, all a ong here, all along there. The whole perimeter of the property w'll have green space, which no one else has. M~S. LABOMBARD-And what kind of a facade will the building have, l"ke cedar shake? M~. KENNY-The facade has got to be according to the Town Building C de, that I'm married to. I cannot have any combustible b i I (Ii ngs . M~. HARLICKER-8ut are you married cJnfiguration of the 60,000 square feet? iltO smaller buildings situated across w"th walkways, something like that. to this particular could you break it up the site and connected M~. KENNY-Not and make it retail irable. - 55 _. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. all. I'm just throwing out the question, that's MR. KENNY-If you look at, when the roof goes on, it's going to make it look a lot different. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. MR. KENNY-I mean, what makes a building is, to me, the elevation. The front elevation, and how that (lost word) with the roof. I mean, there's a (lost word) planter here that will come up, break up the building line. The roof design, and the elevation 1S really what's going to make this building look like something different. MR. MARTIN-My one last question, Tom, stormwater. approach? Are we going to infiltrate on site, under lot? What's the the parking MR. NACE-One hundred percent infiltration. We'll segment it and get it in at a lot of different locations. We'll probably use drywells. We'll use some perforated pipe to interconnect c;h-ywe lls . MR. MARTIN-You've got good soils and everything, don't you? MR. NACE-Yes, good soils. MR. \J.Jhat fr om that MARTIN-Because I know there was a concern about the stream, was it, to the east of this site there's a stream that goes the pond there at 149, and we're not going to be impacting at all, right? MR. NACE-No. There is an existing DOT culvert that comes across here. We don't even know if there's a right-of-way for it. MR. MARTIN-I see that, 24 inch is it? MR. NACE-Yes. We will be relocating that with DOT's graces to (lost word) the property line, and outletting it all the way back, (lost word) right adjacent to the property line. If DOT permits, we'll put perforated pipe in. So, hopefully, I can't do that right adjacent to the building, once I get past the building. MR. KENNY-Going back to the other comment about the water runoff and the problems with that stream in the back, I discussed the same problem with those people, because we have no idea why this water, this is all the water from French Mountain coming down Route 9 and dumping onto this property, and dumping back into the stream, but the bigger problem now, I understand, is even their problem wasn't back here. Their problem was actually in the pond on the other side of Route 9. I mean, they talk about the Million Dollar Half Mile, but their contamination point was on the other side of 149, which is all the water running off the Nor t hl.'Ja y . MR. MARTIN-Well, they're doing sampling out on that stream now, the Glen Lake Protective Association is, and I'll be gettinG more data as they do that testing, and they'll be doing more next spring. MR. KENNY-Because I spoke to them, where their contamination was enterinG it, and it was actually on the other side of 149 in that pond, and they weren't aware of. I told them, there's a 24 inch culvert there that comes off the Northway, dumping right into t.hat lot. MR. MARTIN-That's, typically the greatest offender. MR. MACEWAN-Mr. Kenny made an interesting statement regarding the - 56 - sting of this proposed building, that there's a code that says t at it has to be in the middle? M MARTIN-I can look more into that and see what that means. 1'-1,\. ¡"\(,¡Ca,JAN-·I'm curious about that, because isn't the French M untain Commons cedar sided? M . KENNY-Okay, a nonflammable building, if you're over so many t ousand square feet, you've got to have certain classifications, a ld no building can go over, I believe, you can check the Code, 6,000 square feet, with the wood construction, Type II c nstruction, without a fire wall, from the floor all the way up tlrough, which makes it very, again, unretail, biggel- stores come i I, they want 8, 10, 12,000 square feet. So this building, for a 1 intents and purposes, will have to be a Type, I think it's F've. 1'1,\. NACE"'T>'pe Four's combustible. M~. KENNY-Type II is noncombustible. So this would have to be a T'pe II building, which would make it a steel building with no cJmbustible material. MACEWAN-So that way you can tailor. KENNY-I can tailor the space to this kind of size, which make it much more desirable in the future, whatever h ppens, and it's also, Town Building Department would much T,ther see, they don't like to see wood buildings as a commercial M. MARTIN-To give you a size perspective on this, the Mount R)yal Plaza is, I think, roughly this same size, right, Tom? M~. NACE-That is correct. M,. KENNY-It's roughly the size t at's the reason why that's not p-obably have brick. We can use w· cannot use any wood siding, or of the Mount Royal Plaza. So (lost word). Now we can, we'll brick. We can use stucco, but anything of that effect. M~S. LABOMBARD-And when you come down, you said you come down tlat mansard roof, like, what would that be? Would that be just a metal coming down like that? The way I believe it's going to be is the roof c mes out, and there'll be 45. So there'll be, probably a window sJacing. I mean, the Adirondack Outlet Mall has got, it looks like the blue, attached metal siding. The metal siding they make t,day looks very similar to clapboard siding. It cannot be wood. I mean that would be available to you. We would have the full d-awings. Nothing that I want to do here is, I mean, this, r gardless of the Planning Board (lost word) if I get tenants up h"re t.o lea:::;6 space, ancJ that's ~\Ihy I'm t.alking about rev<3rsin9 t ,e gable to face the road, put some jOgs in the building and m~ke t.he roof line look different, to make it very leasable~ I'm t,Üking about a Liz Claiborne. I'd ideal!>' like to get a Sax F'fth Avenue. 5piegels is opening a lot of stores right now. 5Jiegels is doing a lot of outlet stores. M . BREWER-Okay. Any other questions? 1'-1 ~. P{,)LING-Yes~. I "v'e just got one comment to make. I was going t.) make the same comment that Jim Martin did about. a traffic s,udy, and you put it into real good perspective when you said t1is is going to be the same size as the Mount Royal Plaza, and I tlink if we slip something like that in on Route 9 with the e'isting problems and comments we have like that, we'd be wrong. W·'ve at least got to discuss the impact on traffic, if not have - 57 - a traffic study. MR. BREWER-Agreed. I think we should talk about the traffic, but we have history of, Dexter did a traffic study two years ago, was it? We could look at those numbers. We could gather those numbers and look at them. MR. KENNY-It was a bigger building, and it never took place. MR. BREWER-Yes. If we think, or DOT thinks, that some of those accommodations have to be done that Dexter did, then so be it, but for us to have him do a full blown traffic study, we're going to sit here and we're going to look at it and we're going to say, what the hell is this? I don't think anybody in this room, honestly, can look at a traffic study and read it and know what it. says. MR. PALING-Well, somebody would have an opinion about it, though, who's qualifi~sd. MR. BREWER-Yes. The guy who wrote it's going to be writing it for them and he's going to say there's not going to be any problem. I mean, that's just the truth. I mean, that's the way it is, and if you get somebody who opposes them, you get somebody to do a traffic study who says that there's going to be major p'"oblems. I mean, that's just ~ opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, but. MR. PALING-Well, I'm not trying to curtail business. As a matter of fact, we're trying to welcome businesses, and jobs and all of that, but I don't want to go by this without at least discussing the traffic sit.uation. MR. BREWER-I agree with you. We could look at Dexter's traffic study. I'm sure that's available in the files, isn't. it, Jim? MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's there, but you've got to be careful of these things. Dexter was at a signalized access point. I mean, there's all sorts of apples and oranges here. MR. BREWER-The numbers as far as cars are going to be the same, aren't they? MR. NACE-What the traffic study is going to tell you, okay, is whether your main line has the capacity for the additional ç.18nerat,ion. MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. NACE-And if there is an intersection, what the degradation of the level of service of that intersection is. Okay. You're not really worried about the ingress/egress capacity, only as it effects the main line, okay. That's the only way you're worried abou,t it. I think if Ir¡e take the Dexte,- and see what that effect has on the main line, we can fairly accurately evaluate, and the existing malls up there are the same size as this, aren't they, Da\/e? MR. KENNY-Yes. Well, my existing mall leasable. Mr. Chalet is 55,000 square feet. 46. is 85,000, 72,000 The French Mount is MR. NACE-Look at the effect that they are already having on the main line, and say this is going to be about the same effect. MR. BREWER-An example, Bob, of traffic do a traffic study. They said there with the Walmart. The same company, traffic study of Route 9 and 254 and failing. What do you believe them, months after? The same company did studies, is we had Walmart was going to be no problem six months later, did a said the intersection was six months before or six this traffic study. It - 58 - d·pends on who the client is. M\. MARTIN-Yes. but the other thing to do, y ur approach to traffic studies a little a ount from the developer sufficient to pay a lei the Pla,nnin:;¡ Board'::) the (;:lient, n()t the Tim, is maybe change bit. Just get an for a traffic study developey' . M,. BREWER-That's fine. We can do it any way you want, but I t,ink you're going to. 1"1,\. KEI'~NY-Let me say one other thi n~L I thi n k IrJi th a tr aff i c s_udy, I mean, how much more traffic, but your mitigating c"rcumstances are we're going to be connecting most of the p"operties, you know, the counties on the east side of the road a e going to be connected. I mean, actually, we all could be c nnected if we could connect this into the Log Jam. The only Ole that won't be is the Lake George Plaza. There's no reason for the Log Jam should not be connected to Dunham's. (lost word) pJt a fence between the parking lot so they can't be connected b' cause they don't want to. They should be. You can't force d'velopers to connect parking lots. M<. BREWER-Yes, you can. It's in the Ordinance. M., KENNY-Well, (lost word) before the Planning Board, now, but ye u can't if it's already been approved. 1'1';. BRE~,JER'''No. 1'1 \. KENNY-(md that's IrJhat!IlL py-oblem is IrJi th the Log Jam. I moan, I brought that problem, I mentioned it to you when they Vkre going foy" the variances foy" theiì" signs. Th(ò oth¡-:n" thing i', one of the things with the traffic study is, it's my belief t at (lost word). With this 60,000 square feet, if I get the r ght tenants, but it's a possibility. What we're going to do is t ke a customer up there who's going to spend an hour up there, a 1d then that same customer spend two hours up there, if we get o her stores. So, in effect, all we're talking is 300 cars. 1'1,\. BRE~.JER-You don't have to convi nce me. M<. KENNY-And you're talking about the shopper being given a wide r. nge of stores. We're going to talk about the shopper going in tlleì-e and spendinq Ü.,¡o and thy'ef') hours they"e. So ho\.,¡ much moY"e t affic you're actually generating, versus longer stays of s opper 2; . 1'1". BREt.JER--I agree IrJi th Bob. IfJe s~hould look at the traffic a' pect of it, and maybe there has to be something done, but I c' n't see a full traffic study of Route 9 for 60,000 square feet. I mean, it's right in the middle of what is existing there, and t Ie potential is there. M ,. RUEL-Yes, but you're going to c tizens. There's been a lot of t ere and then all of a sudden, p r k: i ng spa(~es. get a lot of static from the talk about this traffic jam up now, we're putting another 200 MARTIN-If you remember, Tim, on Dexter. I mean, that. M BREWER-I agree. I know. I sat through it, Jim. M MARTIN-Mike Brandt had pIll that out of the fire, that meeting in the atrium, a:s I r ernembe,' . there to M '. BREWER-Anybody that comes up here and talks about having a tlaffic study done, though and we end up doing a traffic study, hlve them explain the traffic study to us, and what we should do. M'. RUEL-Why don't we have a person come in? - 59 - MR. BREWER-Maybe we should have somebody. Maybe we, the Town should hire somebody to look. We know what the answers are. The road needs to be widened. There needs to be turning lanes. Who's going to pay for it? MR. MARTIN-I can tell you, you know, remember the reception Dexter got at the County Planning Board? MR. BREWER-I'm just one member. I mean, if everybody else wants to have a traffic study, go ahead. MR. KENNY-I'd love to see all these parking lots connected in the back. MR. MARTIN-I can tell you the County Planning Board is want to see a traffic study. I can tell you that right don't want to speak for them, and I shouldn't, but past will indicate, anyhow, they're going to want to see a ::$tl.J.(J~,.' on this. going to nOt-.). I history tì"affic MR. KENI\lY-One of the thi ngs the County has ahJays addressed to me was to see if some way we can connect all these parking lots in the back. i"1R. MARTIN-Yes. and apple pie. That will be well received. Who's against that? That's motherhood MR. KENNY-I mean, regardless, if the traffic study comes out one way or the other, the property has to be rezoned, or approve a building moratorium up there. There can be no more construction up there on Route 9, until, if a traffic study like that comes out, there's got to be a four lane road, they're not going to do it fOì" 30 yea'"s. MR. MARTIN-I remember you said that same thing during the public hearings on Dexter. I remember that, quote unquote, but I just tell you what you're going to run into up there. MR. PALING-How much time and money are we talking? know, roughly, for a traffic study? Does a nybocly MR. NACE-Yes. Lets back up, Dave said the a traffic study going to tell you? It's Kenny, you've got to do something intersection, or signalize your exit here. key phrase, is what is not going to say, Mr. different with your MR. MARTIN-I thought you were going to provide, like, a right hand turn lane in, and things, on your property? MR. MACEWAN-That's another question you need to ask, is how soon is he looking to get this project going, and when would you do a traffic study? The peak time is in the summer months, July and August. MR. RUEL-You can't do it now. When would you do it? MR. NACE-It would kill the project right now, if you did a traffic ~;tudy. MR. BREWER-That's why I'm saying, there's data out there that you can look at, and maybe look at some of the solutions they came up with, and maybe scale them down. Maybe he needs to put a turn lane into his plaza, but I don't think he has to expand, put a new light in and put crosswalks where Dexter was going to do that. MR. MARTIN-I know. MR. BREWER-I mean, he doesn't have to go to the extent that they did. - 60 - '~ -~ M:. KENNY-I don't have a problem putting the light in. DOT's not g ing to put a light in. M.. BREWER-No. Dexter, didn't they have to replace the light or srmething, Mark? MARTIN-Yes. They were going to. M . BREWER-I'm saying, they','e not going to make you replace that l'ght and time it, is what I'm saying, if you go in. Maybe t,ey'll make you do a turn lane or something. Do you understand w at I'm saying? They're not going to make you go to the extent t at Dexter went to. What I'm saying is, if we looked at some of tle data that was gathered for Dexter, maybe on a lower scale, s mething would have to be done. M~. NACE-I will, before our meeting, next meeting here, I will pill that data out, see what I can glean out of any previous t-affic ::;;tudies~. M\. MARTIN-If you don't have it, I'll make it available to you. M<. KENNY-Well, I think the big thing to come out of the Dexter s.udy was the sidewalks along there, which we're putting in now, t,e green space along the road. and connecting the pedestrian wllkway. Now we're (lost word) pedestrian walkway connecting Dlnham's all the way down to the Lake George Plaza, on that side o the )-oad. M<. BREWER-Agreed. M~. KENNY-So most of the Dexter issues that came up with the t-affic, that whole plan. M.. BREWER-That's why I'm saying you don't need the traffic s :udy . M,. MARTIN-We've got to have an active discussion with Log Jam, a Id if it takes the TOl'-Jn, ttwough my office, to act as (:1 f cilitator of that, I have no problem trying to bring them, sit d.wn to the table and see if they'll agree to a connection. w ¡ether it be pedestrian or vehicular or both. M :. BREWER--O kay . v~ry much. We'll Any other questions? see you next month. Oka)" . I guess, thank you M~. NACE-Thank you. M\. BREWER-Jim, I just have one question, this is Car Essentials. M<. MARTIN-Yes. It was supposed to be for a year. M~. BREWER-I looked at this letter and I said, I don't even know it's from. MARTIN-They asked for a year. We just gave them six months, PALING-Was that letter from Pam, I called her today to say it okay, and I've lost the, she asked if you'd ask everybody on t'2 Board if it's okay, the November dates. M~. BREWER-When's our first meeting, would be? M . MACEWAN-The 15th. M" BREWER-So why don't we go to the 29th. M~. PALING-She wants the 17th and 29th. M,S. LABOMBARD-I can't come the 17th. - 61 - MR. PALING-The 17th is a Thursday and the 29th is a Tuesday. MR. BREWER-How about the 29th. MR. MACEWAN-She wants to set both of them aside. t1R. OBERMAYER-Both of them? MR. MACEWAN-Yes, both of them aside in case we need them, is that what she's saying? MR. OBERMAYER-Lets make it the 29th. The 29th is good. MR. BREWER-The 29th. How is that with everybody else? MRS. LABOMBARD-The 15th and what? MR. PALING-The 17th and the 29th. MRS. LABOMBARD-Why do you say the 17th? MR. PALING-Because that's in her letter. MR. BREWER-She said the 17th QL the 29th. MRS. LABOMBARD-I can't come the 17th. MR. PALING-Okay. So you don't want to do it the 17th. MRS. LABOMBARD-So it'll be the 15th and 29th. MR. BREWER-The site 0isits next month are going to have to be, like, the 10th, only because we have a meeting with DOT on the ninth. We'll talk about it next week. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Timothy Brewer, Chairman - 62 -