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1994-10-27 SP , '- '- QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING SPECIAL MEETING OCTOBER 27, 1994 INDEX ~,ite Pla.n No. 32-94 Barrett Au.to Sales, Inc. Site Plan No. 33-94 Craig Seeley, Charles Seeley, Glenn Batea.se 1 . 8. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID l'1II\IUTES. --- ........... --- .-' Q EENSBURY PLANNING S ECIAL MEETING o TOBER 27, 1994 7 00 P.M. BOARD MEETING M PRESENT T, MOTHY BREWER, CHAIRMAN C THERINE LABOMBARD J MES OBERMAYER R BERT PAL IN(; CFAIG MACEWAN R GER RUEL GORGE STARK M MBERS ABSENT E ECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN P ANNER-SCOTT HARLICKER PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI BUSINESS: E PLAN NO. 32-94 TYPE: UNLISTED BARRETT AUTO SALES, INC. ER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: QUAKER RD., ACENT TO CAR WASH AND SOUTHEAST OF GARDEN TIME. PROPOSAL TO STRUCT A 71' X 115' BUILDING TO BE USED FOR SALES AND SERVICE TRUCKS. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 65-90 BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 2/94 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 9/14/94 TAX MAP NO. 110-1-1.23 SIZE: 85,500 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-26 RLES SCUDDER, REPRESENTING APPL_ICANT, PRESENT MR. BREWER-Before everybody got here, I wanted to just tell you ho I feel about Barretts. I have no problem with the plans, pr cedurally, I do. We talked about, last meeting, they need th.ir variance. Now they've changed the application. To me, it's a new application. So I'm going to abstain from any voting an anything to do with it. I just think that if we go ahead wi h this the way it is, we're setting a precedent, and if a va iance is needed for an application, and we're saying, okay, we'll change it, and go ahead with the application and then let th, applicant get the variance after the fact, and I don't think th t's the way we should be doing things. MR PALING-Can't we approve a site plan, though, and say, one of th conditions is that they get a variance from the Zoning Board? MR BREWER-No. I think, legally, they have to have the variance fi st. Don't they, Mark? MR SCHACHNER-A lot of towns specifically state that in their ZOI ing laws. I don't think Queensbury does. By which I mean th ,t there are a lot of towns that, in the Zoning Ordinance it elf, it says if any aspect of an application is not allowed un eT zoning, and therefore requires a variance, that the PI nning Board won't even accept the application and put it on it-, agenda until and unless the applicant goes and gets the va,iance. Quite honestly, the reason for that in most places is ju t, really, because the Planning Board doesn't want to waste its time looking at an application that needs a variance if the ap,lication may not get that variance. To the best of my re ollection, I don't recall OUT law here having that specific pre vision. - 1 - "-- MR. BREWER-Well, I just recall every application every needing a variance, and I can recall some that we've sent back to get a variance before we even talked about it, and it's no fault of the applicant, and I want to make sure that that's clear. You guys are not at fault. I think it's our Staff and it happened, and there's nothing we can do about it. Everybody makes mistakes, but I Just, procedurally, since I've been on the Board, we've never done it, and I don't want to start now. I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying that L don't want to. MRS. LABOMBARD-Tim, when I read it over, when it came, I didn't understand. I thought, well, here we're having this big rush to bring it up at this meeting, and having this Special Meeting, and the variance hasn't been approved. They haven't even applied )let. MR. OBERMAYER-Well, they changed the application. MR. BREWER-Then they it's a new application. sales. changed the application. So, therefore, I mean, it was advertised cars and auto MRS. LABOMBARD-Right. MR. BREWER-Now we've got an application that says for trucks, and, to me, that's a new application. Procedurally, I think it's the wrong thing to do, to go ahead and have the meeting. MR. MACEWAN-If it's a new application, does it meet the submission deadline? MR. BREWER-I couldn't have, because the submission date for. MR. MACEWAN-So then why are we even entertaining it? MRS. LABOMBARD-That's why I don't understand why it's even on the agenda. MR. RUEL-Are you saying that this is a new application? MR. BREWER-To me, only because the application has changed. It was for auto sales and trucks. MR. RUEL-And what is it now? Now it's vehicles? MR. BREWER-Now it's just trucks. MR. RUEL-Just trucks? DAI'\ IEL BARBER MR. BARBER-That's so we can get the approval and proceed with concrete, because of the time of the year. MR. BREWER-I understand that. MR. RUEL-It's still for autos, though, even though it says just trucks? MR. BARBER-Well, we will proceed with that. MR. OBERMAYER-They'll go and get a variance, ask for a va,-iance. MR. BARBER-That would be our risk, if we proceed on that basis. MR. RUEL-Since it's a Planning Staff responsibility, or an error to begin with, shouldn't it be the responsibility of the Planning Staff, is this possible for them to obtain the variance? MR. BREWER-No. The applicant has to get the variance. - 2 - '--" '-..../' '_0 .-' M RUEL-Yes, but how come he's got to go through this? It w sn't his fault. I reviewed a'll the paperwo,'k, initially, and h, was led to believe that everything was okay, and the zoning w s all ,'ight. M BREWER-I understand that, but these things happen. M RUEL-I know it happens, and it has to be corrected. M' BREWER-Right. RUEL-Does he have to go through the exercise of correcting M BREWER-Yes. He has to get a variance if he wants that use in t e zone, because it's not an allowed use. 1'1 BREWER-No. RUEL-The planning Staff cannot obtain a variance for him? M M·. MACEt.JA \ --I''-!o. MR. OBERMAYER-Have you talked to the ZBA at all, to try to get a meting with them, to get a variance? MR. MARTIN-They've applied for the variance. MR. SCUDDER-And we have, at the last Zoning Board meeting, we did ask for some guidance on this. We explained the situation. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. MR. 8REWER-I would be more than willing to have a Special Meeting, if Ted was willing to have a Special Meeting and we do it the same night, or the night after. I just think, cedurally, I don't ever recall doing it since I'\(Q. been on the rd, and if we do it for you, and nothing against anybody. If happens again, then we've got to do it again. OBERMAYER-When do you think you could have the ZBA? guys don't know. Well, MR. SCUDDER-No. I don't know when it could be. MR. BARBER-No. We wouldn't know. MR. BREWER-Is it possible that we could ask Ted to have a Special Me ting, like, next week? MR MARTIN-Well, they are considering, already, a Special Meeting of the Zoning Board, but on a matter that's going to take up a 10 of time. MR BREWER-Would they be willing to have another one, for this it m? MR MARTIN-We could piggy back it on that one, maybe, on November 10 h. MR OBERMAYER-Now where was the mistake? Was the mistake the To n of Queensbu,-y? Did we make the mistake? MR SCHACHNER-I don't think it's crystal clear that there's been a nistake, for starters. I think there's some gray area, here, as to whether, and I haven't seen the letter, what the new letter is or whatever the new application is, but I guess the issue is, wh-,t were the contemplated uses on the property, and were they al owed uses, or were any of them uses that require a variance. Is that accurate? ,- 3 - ""- MR. MARTIN-Yes. Well, first of all, you've got to remember. You have the exact same site plan that was approved by this Board in 1990, almost exactly the same. It was applied for in 1990, approved and done with. For whatever reason, the applicant never implemented the project. MR. BREWER-It was for the truck sales, right? MR. MARTIN-And that's what it's coming to. The made, then, for truck repair and truck sales. It this time. application was came in again, MR. OBERMAYER-What was the zoning then? Was it the same? MR. MARTIN-The same, and I guess Mr. Scudder was given advice out of our office that it was a Highway Commercial zone. All right, and this new application had auto sales and truck sales. So if it we,-e Highway Commercial, which it is not, but if it were, truck sales would not be permitted and auto sales would be. We've come to find out that it's Light Industrial. Truck sales are permitted. Auto sales are not. That's what's happened. MR. SCHACHNER-So the issue is, what are the, Mr. Barber took issue with what I said, but I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, but the issue is whether the proposed uses are permitted in the cu,-rent zoni ng. MR. BARBER-All right. That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the Highway, we thought it was Highway Commercial. MR. SCHACHNER-Right. Okay. MR. BARBER-And that's why it happened like that. MR. SCHACHNER-All right, but in terms of me trying to frame the issue, I think I was right in stating that the issue was whether the proposed uses are allowed as of right in that zone, or whether any aspect of the proposed uses requires a variance. Okay, and that being the case, but a part of this issue is whether or not the clarification, if you will, that's been submitted, makes this a new application, and I think, I don't think that's necessarily the case, in that my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong anybody, is that, as far as the site plan itself, that's not changed. MR. MARTIN-See, my understanding, based on problems, we've had a problem with an advertisement done for an application is, that when you're adding something to the application that was previously not there, then you have to re-advertise and all that. MR. SCHACHNER-The material change. MR. MARTIN-Right, the material change, but in this case, the change is that something's being taken away, meaning the auto sales. The truck sales has always been proposed for this current application. MR. BREWER-Exactly, but what I'm saying to you, Jim, is, if they go for a variance next month, and they get a variance for auto sales, they're going to do auto sales. So they're not changing the application. What I'm saying is, the auto sales is not an allowed use in a Light Industrial zone. Therefore, they should get a variance, and that's what was brought up (lost word). MR. MARTIN-My question is, why can't the truck repair and truck sales proceed on for site plan? MR. BREWER-I didn't say it couldn't. going to participate, because I don't the right thing to do. I just said that I'm not think, procedurally, it's - 4 - '-' -../ '~ .-' M MARTIN-That's the only question I have. M 8REWER-That's ~ opinion. t eir opinion. Everybody else has got a right to M . RUEL-Will the Z8A application be for a change of zone, or to a low (lost word)? 1'1f . 8REWER-And they probabl)1 IrJoul d s ying they wouldn't, and I have no I m just saying, procedurally. get the variance, I'm not problems with the plans, but M RUEL-Why should this be a new application? M BREWER-It's a new application because it was for auto sales trucks. Now it's just for trucks. M RUEL-It should still be the same. M OBERMAYER-What they did is they changed the application so t at they wouldn't have to go get a variance first. That's all t ey did. That's really the bottom line. MF. BREWER-That's the bottom line. MR. RUEL-All right. So they could go through this way, and then get the ZBA. MR. BREWER-But that's what I'm saying, that I don't ever recall doing that, giving the approval for something and then get the variance. Usually you get the variance and then get the approval. MR. SCUDDER-Mr. Chairman, if I may, we acknowledge the need for a us_ variance to sell cars or lease cars. We acknowledge that, an , in fact, the Zoning Board has said you need a variance, and we agree. We need a variance. What we're trying to do is fa'ilitate the project development, get going with our concrete wo k and all that stuff, by applying for approval of the site pl n for trucks leasing, sales and repair, and then proceeding, co currently, with obtaining the use variance for cars. There's no question that the Barrett's need both. They need both autos an t,·ucks. MR. PALING-Clarify two things for me. One is that you'll go th ough, if this can go through tonight, on a Light Industrial zo d. ng appl ication, but your pr i nts call for Highway Commercial. MR. SCUDDER-That's a mistake on my part. MR PALING-Well, you're going to have to alter the prints before yo proceed. MR SCUDDER-Can't we just scratch out HC and write in LI-1A? MR PALING-I hope you can. I don't know. MR MARTIN-Yes. Mf~ PALING-The whEther you're no cars, and de': lership . other thing, just to straighten me out. We talked going to do cars or trucks and all that they said yet a newspaper article said you were a Volvo MR. BREWER-That's Volvo trucks. They are down in Albany. MR. BARBER-There's trucks. Not cars. MR. BREWER-They do have a GMC Volvo dealership in Albany that is trucks, Volvo trucks. - 5 - ''"-- MR. MACEWAN-You're intent, though, is ~o move the entire operation from Dix Avenue up to Quaker Road? MR. BARBER-That's correct. MR. MACEWAN-What would happen if for some reason, unbeknownst to anybody here, that you weren't able to get the variance for the cars? What would happen? MR. SCUDDER-I have no idea. MR. BARBER-That would be our risk. MR. SCUDDER-We feel that, defacto, it's a Highway Commercial zone in the way that things are being done down there. There's a Mazda dealer and you've got Garden Time, the Car Wash. MR. MACEWAN-But the Mazda dealer is the only one (lost word) got a \/a,-iance? ~1R. MARTIN-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-Garden Time and the Car Wash fall within the Highway Commercial zoning, don't they? MR. MARTIN-Yes. That used to be Plaza Commercial, which did not also permit auto sales, and that's why Mazda got a variance for auto sales there. MR. MACEWAN-So actually the only people down there who are dealing anything in automobiles had to obtain a use variance. MR. SCUDDER-Well, that may be true. I can't say, but what I am. saying is that the nature of the enterprises along that reach of Quaker Road is commercial. It's not industrial. It's commercial. So rather than argue the merits of zoning, we would just go ahead and apply for a use variance to deal with cars, and we feel reasonably confident that we'll get the variance. MR. MACEWAN-How soon could they be scheduled for a ZBA meeting, Jim, do you know? MR. MARTIN-I could suggest to Ted that that be put on for the 10th. It's his decision. MR. MACEWAN-Would they take it? MR. MARTIN-That's his decision. It's the Chairman's decision. MR. MACEWAN-Do you think that there's some way that maybe they could get on sooner? MR. MARTIN-Well, it requires review by the County Planning Board. MR. HARLICKER-The problem is advertising. MR. MARTIN-And plus there's a five day advertising requirement. So with those two factors, I think the earliest day we could do it is the 10th, because the 9th is the County meeting, right, as it falls, I think. MR. MACEWAN-What day is the 10th, a Thursday? MR. MAFHIN-Yes. MR. SCHACHNER-The ZBA has also indicated, in a different matter, that it's not available to meet on the 9th, the 8th, the 7th, that whole week. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. Pretty much. - 6 - '- '--"" '-"' ~ M,~. MART Hj-l,.jel 1 , this ì-equi res County review. So we can't pre- e pt the County Planning Board. M . MACEWAN-The only thing I, personally, would Bard is, as a pitfall, if for some reason they g t the use variance, what's going to happen in e fect of them wanting to move the car dealership tIe trucks as well? like from the aren't able to the long term over here I",i th M . MARTIN-Well, if 1 th, hear it on the b,ck here on the 15th. Ted were to accept the application on the 10th, we could have, then, the site plan M BARBER-That would be fine. We would go along with that. SCUDDER-That would be fine with us. M BARBER-We'd have to do it in that time frame, though, s mewhen3. 1'1 BREWER-Yes. I don't have a problem doing that. M MACEWAN-Can we get your approval to table tonight, and see if WE can't set it up for the 10th? MR. BARBER-Y¡3S. MR. MARTIN-Well, what we could do, Tim, maybe, is have you, maybe e en if you could place a call to Ted and explain the situation. MR. BREWER-I'll call him tomorrow morning. I can call him tomorrow morning and see if the 10th or sooner. MR. MARTIN-We can't do it any sooner, because the County meeting's the ninth. MR. OBERMAYER-The only thing that we're really accomplishing th-ough all this is just a procedural type of thing, even though th~ applicant is not doing anything wrong with the way he's going ab ut it. MR. SCUDDER-Mr. Chairman acknowledged that right at the outset. MR. OBERMAYER-I don't see anything wrong with what you're trying to do, the way you're doing it right now. MR. SCUDDER-Well, neither do we. MR. BREWER-Well, procedurally. MR. OBERMAYER-Procedurally, they're doing correct. MR. BREWER-They're kind of putting the cart before the horse, I th nk. MR OBERMAYER-Not necessarily. It"s their risk. They're taking th ,-isk. MR BREWER-If that's what you believe, that's fine. MR OBERMAYER-That's what L believe, and maybe we ought to ask th rest of the Board, poll the Board. MR BREWER-All right. I mean, the applicant agrees to do it at a me ting on the 10th, and do it the right way to do it. Go ahead. Wh.t do you want to do? MR MARTIN-Well, the other thing to remember is, the car repair an car sales is going to need site plan review also. If you do sa arate out the two, they're going to have to be back here in - 7 - November anyhow for a site plan on the car sales. MR. BREWER-What do you want to do, Roger? Lets go around the room and get it over with. MR. RUEL-I want to table this until such time as the applicant can receive the ZBA approval, and we can reconvene on 11/15. MRS. LABOMBARD-I feel the same way. MR. PALING-Either way. I could through tonight with an exception. either table it or vote I'll go either way. it MR. OBERMAYER-Well, you heard the way I voted. MR. BREWER-All right. I'll say lets table it. MR. MACEWAN-Table it. MR. BREWER-I guess it's tabled. MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLA~ NO. 32-94 BARRETT Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its by Catherine LaBombard: AUTO SALES. INC., adoption, seconded Until the ZBA use variance has been put in the works to get, and gotten. Duly adopted this 27th day of October, 1994, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer NOES: I'-IONE ABSENT: Mr. Stark SITE PLAN NO. 33-94 TYPE: CRAIG SEELEY, CHARLES SEELEY, GLENN BAT EASE OWNERS: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: BIG BOOM & TWIN CHANNELS RD. PROPOSAL IS FOR THREE BUILDINGS FOR A MACHINE SHOP, WELDING SHOP AND STORAGE. BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 10/10/94 TAX MAP NO. 135-2-2 LOT SIZE: 14 ACRES SECTION: 179-26 CHARLES SCUDDER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 33-94, Craig Seeley, Charles Seeley, Glenn Batease, Meeting Date: October 27, 1994 "The applicant's revised plans submitted 10/26/94 addressed staff's concerns regarding access to the site. However, there are still some outstanding concerns regarding the fill at the northern end of the site and the final contours and erosion control measures. These are, along with several other concerns, included in Rist- Frost's comments dated 10/26/94." MR. BREWER-Okay. Do you want to go over those? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. Okay. "We have reviewed the above revised site plans received 10/26/94, and the attached roof stormwater information received 10/24/94, and have the following remaining engineering comments: We have requested (both verbally at site and by copy of 10/20/94 site visit notes) that the applicant show specifically how the final slope on the northern edge of the site (currently being filled) will be stabilized. The current site plan notes that 'vegetative measures shall govern construction of permanent waterways and stabilization of soils.' Due to the slopes and location of the fill, we again request that specific - 8 - -- ""'-" -..' --- m' asures be detailed regarding ensuring stabilization of that n rthern filled area, both during and after construction. Please n te that no indications of silt fence locations or other m"asures are specifically shown on drawing. At a minimum, we h ve recommended that silt fence be installed along the entire t e of slope of the filled area to protect the springs in that a-ea. The earthen berm concept presently used in a limited area t lere now should be expanded. The applicant should consider i stalling some type of guardrail at the top of the steeply f, lled slope to the north of the storage building, particularly i individuals not familiar with the site ever have need to be in t at area of the property after dark or in foggy conditions. The f nal grades and stormwater runoff concept and data for the s orage building area are not shown, but should be since it is an a1ea of concern regarding slope stability and erosion control. T e infiltration assumptions and runoff data used to size the SW r tention basin should be shown (calculations for roof runoff to tte footing trenches has been submitted already). The detail sfeet should include the sizes depths of these footing trenches. Sgns should be provided for handicapped spaces and access aisle. SE tic System Details for septic tank and D-box should indicate gr a\/el sub-base and access covers ~jithi n 12 "of grade. If you hcve any questions please call. Very truly yours, RIST-FROST A~SOCIATES, P.E. William F. MacNamara, P.E. Project Engineer" M . BREWER-Okay, Charlie, do you want to address those comments? SCUDDER-Yes. Mr. Chairman, I submitted with these exhibits t is small exhibit. We went out and surveyed the site on the 2 th, specifically because we didn't have any data on what goes or down the slope and across this flat and in the area of the stream back here and up the other side. We also picked up the stump area here, and we had the slash (lost words) stump, and t~is is where the concrete was spilling down the slope, and this w"s our estimate of the beginning of the fill up here, and r know ttat the Board is very concerned about this whole business b cause, when you came out to the site, yOU went immediately to ~his place, and ~hat gave you the idea that (lost word) concerned atout this. So We surveyed this, and we want to talk about that tonight. There is a small berm down here, you see, a small earthen dike or a dam that's 65 feet from the nearest point on the stream, as we measure it, and that's the only protection at the present time for that stream. Now in his report, Bill Ma Namara talks about silt fences and further protections at the bottom of the slope. He also wants to know how the slope is going to be stabilized. MR. HARLICKER-I spoke with him on the phone earlier this week, anJ he wanted to emphasize that. his concern about how this slope wa finally going to look like, and how it's going to be st"bilized, final grade. He mentioned that the applicant was go·ng to be pushing out, farther out into the ravine. How much fa-ther out was this slope going to be extended? That was one of hi;) concer ns . MR. SCUDDER-I'm going to ask Mr. Seeley if he would express, but wh t are your plans for that fill? CR:¡IG SEELEY MR. SEELEY-It'll be graded, something that could be easily walked up and down, no more than a 25 percent slope. MR 8REWER-How far out is it going to go. MR SEELEY-Far enough to get at least 50 foot of flat area a,-ou nd th building. I'1R 8REIrJER-All right now, is that? - 9 - MR. SEELEY-Slightly graded down away. Now you also notice on the stormwater reports, all the runoff is taking, and we're putting it the total other direction. So there'll be no runoff from any buildings or any of this flat area. MR. BREWER-I guess what ~ concern is the storage building. Is that, it's going to be over the top of that fill area. MR. SCUDDER-This is where we think the fill begins, right here. That corner of the building is going to be (lost word). However, Mr. Seeley has stated that the fill starts out from the grade, here, and goes very shallow for a ways, and then it begins to drop off very steeply. MR. SEELEY-By the time we get to floor level, there will be no footings or foundations on any disturbed or filled areas. MR. MACEWAN-His intention is that, what he eventually wants to do, before he puts his foundation in for that storage building is to put the foundation at the same elevation as the machine shop will be. So he's got a lot of earth to move in that direction. So, primarily, that that storage building is going to be sitting on virgin ground. MR. SEELEY-It will be. There's no doubt about it. MR. PALING-But that will be 50 feet, you're saying, around the building? MR. SCUDDER-Mr. Seeley's saying. MR. PALING-Right. Okay. You're saying that's 50 feet away? MR. SEELEY-We're going to make sure that there is adequate, the fire trucks need to be able to get around the building. i'1R. PAL lNG-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-They need 50 feet? MR. SEELEY-That's what I've been told, 50 feet. MR. BREWER-Fifty feet of a clear area, not necessarily a road 50 feet. Why couldn't you pull that back, Craig, toward the machine shop? I mean, have you got room to do that? BARBARA SEELEY MRS. SEELEY-It's going to be subdivided, Tim. MR. SCUDDER-They expect to subdivide this parcel in the future, and, that being the case, in this zone, you need a 50 foot. MR. SEELEY-You have to keep at least 100 foot between buildings. MR. SCUDDER-So we've got 50 feet here, and here. MR. BREWER-But you don't here. You don't on these two buildings. MR. SEELEY-They're connected, with a fire wall between them. i'1R. BRElrJER-Okay. if you're seven all filled, I'm problem with the and 'y'ou' fe goi ng That's fine. I'm feet away from the just thinking of buildings. I mean, to go out. just think of a, to prevent, top of that bank where it's safety. I'm don't have a that goes down pretty good, MR. SEELEY-I just stated that there'll be no more than a 25 percent grade when we finish. - 10 - '- --.....-- " '-- """'-'" M. OBERMAYER-Why do you have fill there if you're going to r"move it, though, if you're going to be pushing it back? M SEELEY-Because it's free. M . BREWER-So it's not going to be virgin earth. M SEELEY-It is going to be virgin earth. We're putting the f u,ndation. M . MACEWAN-Well, you're saying his foundation, now, is going to b. sitting where (lost word). He's moving all of this from here, t.1 at way. M'. BREWER-I guess what I'm saying is if this is the line of f ll, even if it's shallow, this point right here is seven feet f10m where it's very steep. If he pushes that dirt out, that's s ill fill. He's going to come out, I don't know how far he's g ing to come out, say maybe, here. M'. BREWER-I understand that. M . SEELEY-The fill at this point, Tim, is only maybe four foot d-ep, max. 1'1, . SEELEY-IrJe're goi ng to take this area down, this whole area, at least five feet, which will put virgin earth back over into here .. MR. BREWER-But this out here. MR. SEELEY-There's not going to be any building out there. MR. BREWER-We've got to have somewhere to drive around, is what I'm sa y i. ng . MR. SEELEY-It's all stated on the plan. MR. BREWER-You don't have to have an area to drive around the building? Is that what you're saying? MR. SEELEY-No. Why do we need to drive around the buildi.ng? MR. BREWER-You have to have, for fire. MR. SEELEY-You don't have to have a driveway around it. 90_ to have (lost word). You've MR. BREWER-You've got to be able to drive a truck around the bu'lding, a fire truck around the building, don't you? MR. SEELEY-So what's the problem? You can't drive over fill? MR. BREWER-I'm not saying that. I'm saying is that going to be stble enough to fill? It's broken concrete. MR SEELEY-I'll tell you what, they're backing cement trucks ri ht up to the very edge of it right now. MR BREWER-I'm just asking you. MR SEELEY-You've been out there. You've seen it. MR BREWER-I know that, and it goes down like this, and it's not co Ipacted or anythi ng. MR SEELEY-Not compacted? It's solid concrete. MR. RUEL-There were some stumps in there, th re's wood. I'm talking about over here. and there was tar and I know about this. - 11 - '- MR. SCUDDER-Did you see stumps over here? MR. RUEL-Yes. At the last meeting, we asked that you indicate this area, what the fill consisted of. Well I don't see it on this. All yoU have is concrete waste on the bottom here. MR. SCUDDER-That's all I saw. I didn't see. MR. RUEL-I know. There's no indication of what all this fill is, here. We don't know what that is, and maybe you don't, but it certainly is not on here. MR. SEELEY-Well, we're going to turn it over so if you want, I'll let you know when we're doing it and you can come out and observe it. MR. OBERMAYER-I'm looking at Are you saying, this isn't it? your contours here, and I see 384. the new elevation of your g,"ade, is MR. SCUDDER-Those are present. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. Those are present, and then you're showing a finished floor grade of 377, right? MR. SCUDDER-Yes, 377, five. MR. OBERMAYER-So, actually you are going to take down. MR. SCUDDER-It's the intent to have the floor elevations three, this building and this building, all the same. is graded in such a way, first of all, you know, we've this down. For example, in order to do that and get separation we'd have to have a retaining wall here. on these Now this got to cut the grade MR. RUEL-What about a retaining wall over here? MR. SCUDDER-This is the retaining wall, right here. MR. RUEL-That is? MR. SCUDDER-That's going to be constructed as a retaining wall. MR. RUEL-This is down about, what, seven feet you said? MR. SCUDDER-Well, from 385 to 377 and a half. MR. OBERMAYER-The wall of the foundation would be the retaining wall? Is that what you're saying? MR. SCUDDER-Yes. MR. OBERMAYER-And then you'll drive into the facility this way? MR. SCUDDER-Exactly. All the doors will be down here, truck doors. Now, the grading down here will be done in such a way that water from the roof will be disposed of this way, the same over here, because of the high rate of absorption. We'll just put the stone trench under the eaves. I think Jim Martin referred to that technique one time here, didn't you, Jim? MR. MARTIN-What's that? MR. SCUDDER-Using stone trench under the eaves? MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. RUEL-And water from the parking lot, if you have it over here, it goes into here, right? - 12 - '--' ~ '-'" -.... --- SCUDDER-Just to this area. RUEL··Yes. IrJhat about thi.s;. parking lot? SCUDDER-This is flat up there, but this water's going to go wn into here, into this little area, and water here will go wn into here, or down into here. This water will stay here. I n't want it pouring over this bank. . RUEL-But no retention in the retention basins, or catches the in? SCUDDER-I don't think there's a need for it. RUEL-Just natural flow down? Mf SCUDDER-Well, natural in the sense that it's going to come dtwn around and into this little area. M.. OBERMAYER-Is this going to be a paved area, or is this g,avel? M'. SCUDDER-I think it's going to be gravel, but we have to treat i as paved. SEELEY-It's being treated as paved as far as the stormwater conce,- ned . M M. MARTIN-Charlie, I've got a question for you. Where is the t e of the slope going to end up when the 25 percent or better 91ade, when you've got it all buttoned down, what it going to be t e tow of that? 1'-1 SCUDDER-Well, 25 percent is one on four, right? M MARTIN-How far is that going to be from? SEELEY-It's going to be about to that berm down there. M SCUDDER-Wait a second. If you go out 50 feet, horizontally. 1'-1 SEELEY-Well, the grade could start (lost word) going down. M BREWER-How far is it going to be? SCUDDER-For every foot of drop he's going to have to go out feet, horizontally. M f M . SEELEY-About 120 feet, probably, by the time you get to the bcttom, roughly. M·. BREWER-How close is it going to be to the stream, out of c ,- iosi ty? M-. SEELEY-It doesn't matter. MR. BREWER- I t does ma t t.e,- . MR. SEELEY~No, it doesn't, Tim. The stream's off my property. MR. SCUDDER-You'd still have to protect it. MR. SEELEY-Right, but we're protecting it. MR. BREWER-But what I'm saying, the berm is 65 feet from it. If yo 're going to go beyond the berm, and then it's going to be a slope, is the runoff going to go down into the stream? MR. SEELEY-We're bringing the Th~re's not going to be any more runoff the other runoff going down direction. the'"e than - 13 - "-- what's already there. There's already a slope there. There's been a slope there for a million years. MR. BREWER-Right, but there hasn't been buildings there. MR. SEELEY-The building runoff's going the other direction, as we stated earlier. MR. SCUDDER-The building runoff's not going down the slope. The eaves are going to be along here and along here. MR. RUEL-Right. MR. SCUDDER-We're going to capture that stormwater here, here, and here. MR. RUEL-And where does it go? MR. SCUDDER-It's going into the ground, right here. MR. RUEL-Directly, straight down? MR. SCUDDER-Straight down. Now, water that falls out here is going to stay here. This is going to be a little dish in here, if you like, so that stormwater is absorbed here, right here. It does not go over this bank. MR. OBERMAYER-What are these, drywells? MR. SCUDDER-Yes. MR. RUEL-Two drywells here? MR. SCUDDER-Yes. There are two drop inlets and drywells with an absorption trench in between. MR. RUEL-So the water goes this way and that way, right? MR. SCUDDER-That's correct. This is a leader, here. This portion's going to get a leader to take it over to this point, and then it'll be absorbed around here like this. MR. OBERMAYER-What about all the parking lot stormwater? It looks like that's heading. 1'-1R. SCUDDER-Well, on this side of the road, it'll go down into here. On this side of the road, it'll come down into here, like that. A drop of water here comes like this and this and this. MR. RUEL-Having seen the soil up there, it's extremely porous. It seems to me that most of it would be absorbed. MR. SCUDDER-Well, we think all of it will be abso,-bed. If v~e get it below grade, it'll be absorbed. That's very course material. MR. BREWER-Any other points? MR. HARLICKER-Charlie, what are you going to do with the stumps that are there now, all those stumps out there? MR. SCUDDER-I'll let Mr. Seeley tell you what he's going to do. MR. SEELEY-We'll find a suitable spot and bury them on site. MR. HARLICKER-You're going to be removing them from the? MR. SEELEY-Yes. MR. HARLICKER-Okay. - 14 - "-' '-.-'" ~ -- M SEELEY-Definitely. M RUEL-What's, slash? PALING-Slash is the tree debris, junk. MARTIN-In regard to this first ink what they're driving at, here, eas. Is there going to be some abilize the bank, or is there going ying? comment is they sort of to be a from Rist-Frost, I want some specific a matting used to seeding program, or SEELEY-It will be seeded. SCUDDER-If it's one on four, and there's some topsoil on tlere, it could be seeded to grass and it will be stable. In the m an time, you can use fabric or something like that to stabilize i. I don't know, and I haven't know what Mr. Seeley's final o jective is. The second point I want to make is, I don't know hew yOU can keep pouring fill over that bank and put a guard rail a. the same time. . SEELEY-No. We can knock that (lost word) down. That's only a couple of weeks away from being taken care of. Mf. I'-1ARTIN-AlI right. So w¡'''¡at is the intent? s eding, or? Is it haying and I'-1F. SCUDDER-It would be!JJ.X. oplnlon that you need to put some t·psoil on there after you get the slope established, and while y u're doing that, you need to protect against the sediments p·uring into that stream with silt fences, enlarge that earthen d· ke. M'. SEELEY-Clost word) and it'll be up quite well by spring along w:th conservation. MARTIN-Well, that's why I was saying, if we could get some of interim measure, like haying the slope, or whatever, urtil the seeding is established, whatever you put on it. I just went to get established what you're going to do, so we have a )"E,ference. MF. BREWER-We can note it on the plan. MR. SCUDDER-It was already agreed, out at the conference at the site, that a silt fence would be put down at the bottom of the slope, to protect that slant. MR. BREWER-But if he's going to keep moving it out, how can you put a? MR. SEELEY-Mr. Seeley agreed to it. Am I right? MR. SEELEY-Yes. know for IrJhat. We agreed to put a silt fence in place. It's not going to do anything, but. I don't MR. SCUDDER-The silt fence should go out here. MR. BREWER-If you put it down at the bottom of the bank, and you just keep filling over the top of it. MR. SCUDDER-If this stuff pours down, it'll destroy it. We'd put it out he'"e. MR. OBERMAYER-Run it parallel to the sprlng. MR. SCUDDER-Exactly. MR. PALING-What I would like to see, and I think we can do it - 15 - right here, is a statement from the applicant, by item, what he's going to do on that end of the building that would involve the slope, as you're saying, the 25 percent. It should involve erosion prevention, and I'd like the statement to come from Mr. Seeley as to what you're going to, four or five things you've got to tell us what you're going to do, and we ought to make them part of the motion, to get this thing through. MR. SEELEY-Yes. What exactly would you like me to explain? MR. PALING-Well, start with, where is the crest of the slope going to be relative to the building, when you're finished? MR. SEELEY-It depends on how much fill I end up with. I can't give you an exact. MR. OBERMAYER-Minimum 50 feet, you said? MR. SEELEY-Before the slope starts down at all? MR. OBERMAYER-Right. MR. SCUDDER-That's quite a lot. MR. PALING-And it can be, whatever's required for the. MR. SEELEY-I'll probably go down with maybe a 10 percent grade away from the north edge. MR. MARTIN-I don't want to mix apples and oranges here, either, with that requirement about access drive around the building. The Native Textile, due to the size of that building, dictated the need for that 50 foot accessway all the way around the building. At some point, that need goes away, if the building is small enough that it can, you know, only the size of the building dictates the need for that. MR. BREWER-Did the Fire Marshal look at this? MR. MARTIN-It was sent to the Chief of West Glens Falls, and he didn't have a problem with it, and we've got a letter in the file to that effect. MR. PALING-All right. Then lets forget the 50 foot requirement, but state us a footage you're going to hit, beyond the building. MR. SEELEY-Twenty feet. MR. PALING-Okay. Ten percent grade, and then the, what do we ca II it? MR. SCUDDER-One on four from that point. MR. SEELEY-I'll state that we than 25 percent when we finish. will not have any slopes greater Is that sufficient? MR. PALING-All right. Slope is 25 percent, and we're what are you, the crest, and you're going to be, building to the crest? saying, from the MR. SEELEY-Twenty feet. MR. PALING-To crest, is 20 feet. The 25 percent of grade applies when you get to the crest, after the crest. MR. SEELEY-After the crest. MR. SCUDDER-Well, excuse me. You missed the 10 percent. percent from the structure to the crest, and then 25 which is one on four, down the slope. It's 10 pe,-cent, - 16 - -- ~' '----' ~ M,. PALING--Right, and then, what are your, short and long range, p evention of erosion? ~1.. MARTIN--Exactl¡'. We need temporary and ¡::'ermanent. y u're going to do to temporarily control it. IrJhat H . SEELEY-Temporarily, we'll place a silt fence at the bottom m<st furthest point. SCUDDER-Between the existing berm and the stream. M SEELEY-Yes, east of the building. M SCUDDER-Well, parallel to the stream. s ,-eam. Say 20 feet from the H' . OBERMAYER--I thi nk we ought to have that a :-,pro\led by Rist- F ost, actually, the silt fencing. M',. SCUDDER-He's asked for it. OBERMAYER-Yes. That's what I read right here. engineering comments. So they meet H.. HARLICKER-Yes. It's just that (lost word) a letter from R,st-Frost saying that's the case. 1'-1f Pf~LING·-Okay. We can ask for that. M.. SCUDDER-The othe,- thi ng I would suggest, if I may, is that bErm you have down there to capture concrete waste be enlarged, It ngthened. SEELEY-No problem. M MF. SCUDDER-And enlarged, you know, because you don't want to any tting around it. . PALING-Now lets stick to the temporary. You've got to have s. lt fence at the bottom between the berm and the stream. ~ MARTIN-Yes. The berm is also a temporary measure. SCUDDER-That should be enlarged. PALING-And how about erosion, for temporary? SEELEY-Temporary erosion control? PALING-Yes. SEELEY-That's what the berm's for. PALING-How about the slope itself? OBERMAYER-Well, it says right here, in the Rist-Frost c mments, at a minimum, we recommend that silt fence be installed a ong the ent.ire toe of the slope of the filled area to protect t e springs in that area. So as long as you meet what the ergineering comments are, then there shouldn't be any issue. M . SCUDDER-Well, I want to just make a comment. If you put the silt fence back in here, it's going to be destroyed by this stuff rLnning down here. M'. BREWER-I think it's better off if you did put it back in h re, only because if something comes down this bank, it has a c ance to get into the ground before it gets to the silt fence. SCUDDER-This concrete comes down like soup, and it runs down - 17 - here and hits this berm, and that's why I feel the berm should be lengthened. Now you want to get down here on the flat with your silt fence, so that whatever's coming down there isn't going to have any velocity or anything, and it will be down here. What you're interested in is keeping sediments from getting in that. MR. BREWER-Why don't you get together with Rist-Frost, and you two come up with a plan, let him talk to you. MR. SEELEY-We've already done that. MR. SCUDDER-Well, that's okay. If you want to formalize it. MR. BREWER-It says the 26th. that's all we're asking for. It should be noted on here, and MR. SCUDDER-We'd be happy to do it. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. PALING-And that applies to the silt fence and the berm. MR. MARTIN-What I'm going to be looking fo,- on it, Charlie, just to let you know, is I want a scaled distance of the silt fence and the berm so when I go out there and look, I can say, yes, the 50 feet you have there is sufficient, because that's what it calls for on the plan, not any discretion on my part when I go out there, well, put another 25 feet on, you know. I want it known. MR. PALING-Referring to the area on the north side of the warehouse, and that there'll be a, between the building and the crest, no more than 10 percent grade. The crest and beyond will have a maximum slope of 25 percent. The building to the crest will be 20 feet. MR. RUEL-I thought it t,.Jas supposed to be 50? MR. PALING-No. v.Je kicked that out. MR. BREWER-Is that in the Ordinance, that it shall be a certain distance? MR. Mf;RTIN--No. MR. BREWER-It's not. Native Te)(tiles? Then how did you come up with 50 feet at MR. MARTIN-Like I said, that was, when they came for the building permits, when the building reaches a certain size, it kicks in a requirement for fire protection, 50 foot accessway all around the building. I don't know, this, obviously, is nowhere near the size of that building. It mayor may not. MR. BREWER-Twenty feet's sufficient if the Fire Marshal doesn't have any problem with it. MR. MARTIN-Right. When he comes for a building permit, that will be rev ieWt'?d . MR. SCHACHNER-If that's applicable at the building permit stage, they'll still have to do it (lost word) the Planning Board. MR. MARTIN-Exactly. MR. BREWER-Anything else, Bob? MR. PALING-Well, okay, now, we got, I think we've eliminated the temporary thing at the moment, because what we want is for the silt fence, the berm, the grading and the soil erosion to conform - 18 - '--' '''- ',--, --'" w"th the comments in the Rist-Frost letter. 1'1, . SCUDDER-He continually refers to the New York Guidelines for e-osion control. M . OBERMAYER-So can you submit some things to him, then, so that h· can give his blessing on it? M . SCUDDER-Sure. MARTIN-What L mean by temporary, also, is that period of time b,~t~"een which >/OU put on your final coat of topsoil, and you're with your finished grade, and the time that the permanent takes root and takes hold. There's got to be something to that to stabilize that, so it doesn't wash away. If we got a heavy rain, or it's the point of the year where, snow melt, a d it washes all that away before the permanent measure gets a c ance to take hold. There's got to be some sort of protection. M PALING-And that should refer only to erosion control. M MARTIN-As a temporary measure. 1'-1 PALING-As a temporary measure. M M(iRTn~-Ri ght . M MARTIN-That's another aspect of a temporary measure. Usually t.llat's matting or a coating of hay, or something like that. SEELEY-Hay mulch will definitely be maintained. M M.. PALING-Okay. Anything else? MF. MACEIrJAN-That stump burial. Jim, are you going to want to m nitor that stump burial process? 1'-1f'. MARTIN-Yes. That will be moni tored throughout, we'll be t ere. The Building Inspectors are there for the building irspections. Both the Planning Staff and the Building Department S,aff will be monitoring that. M . SCUDDER-There's a lot of room to do that. d wn here where that could be done without any i there. There's a big area harm, right along MARTIN-Again, the applicant's got a copy of our standards. BREWER-Has anybody else got any comments or questions? M M LABOMBARD-I have a question regarding the entrance into the s orage building. You said it was, where, Charlie? M SCUDDER-It's going to d, iveway there because I driveway. It's going to b 11 dozers, or whatever dr i vet.<Jay. be this way. We're not showing a don't think there's going to be a be for equipment, trucks, back hoes, Mr. Batease has, but this'll be a M S. LABOMBARD-So then the trucks will. M . SCUDDER-They'll just come in here like this, and tr be graded in such a way that it's just like this. kind of the mirror image of this. it's going It's just MR. MARTIN-Now, Charlie, in response to the Rist-Frost's third comment, the stormwater runoff from the storage building is going to head south? Is that the idea? MR. SCUDDER-The stormwater runoff, the eaves are going to be - 19 - along here. Now, we're going to pick the water up along here, in this trench, stone filled trench, in the same way we're doing over here, and that's all been designed and it's all been rationally computed and so forth and so on. Over here, the same thing, and along the end wall, even though there's no water pouring off the end wall, but the stone will disperse the water through the trench, which will be level. All right. Now over here, because of this fill situation, because we don't have the same soil in the fill area, we've got broken concrete and this and that, we're going to put a gutter up here, and with a leader down here to put it down in the stone. Now the water that falls out here will be contained out here. MR. MARTIN-So you're putting two drywells in the center of this drive? MR. SCUDDER-With a trench in between. Now, landscaping, please look at my dog and pony show, I spent all day. MRS. LABOMBARD-It's very nice. MR. SEELEY-That's basically what's there already. MR. SCUDDER-You know what's out here. There's a lot of Oak trees along here, nice looking trees. MR. MARTIN-You'll make every effort to retain those, right? MR. SCUDDER-They're going to stay, probably thin out some of the weak trees, and such. MR. SEELEY-The scrub pines are going. MR. SCUDDER-Then the parking, there are 16 parking spaces, 10 up here, 6 down here. MR. MARTIN-Is that all paved? MR. SEELEY-No. It's gravel. It's treated as paved, though, for sto,-mwater. MR. MARTIN-I understand that. MR. SCUDDER-There's a handicapped space here. We need one, with the nine and the eight foot wide spaces, and then it's about a one and a half percent slope along the sidewalk. The sidewalk is going to be eight feet wide. There's a staircase right here, come from up here to down here, and this will be the main entrance here. This is a retaining wall right here, to achieve the grade separation. Now we're going to throw some shrubs right in along that south wall, and a few other. MR. BREWER-Okay, Cathy, anything else? MRS. LABOMBARD-No. MR. OBERMAYER-What kind of building is it going to be, steel pre fab building? MR. SEELEY-No. It's going to be a wood frame, with steel sheeting, architectural steel sheeting. MR. OBERMAYER-How far is the lower exit or entrance down there to Twin Channels Road, when you go out onto Big Boom? How far is t.ha.t? MR. PALING-That you moved. MR. SEELEY-Right (lost word) the intersection, the fire hydrant north. Exactly where the Town wanted it. - 20 - ~ '--" ',,- --' M. SCUDDER-From that "y" there, it's probably 50 feet or t,ereabouts, maybe 60. M MARTIN-All the grading is appropriate, I assume, on your s ptic system, Charlie? The line coming out of the building? M SCUDDER-Yes. We have plenty of slope. M,. MARTIN-You'd be surprised, Craig. Some engineers have showed U' designs where it goes uphill. M . BREWER-I've got just one item. Mr. Fisher was in a d asked us to get something straightened out, and M rk, you have an answer for us. last week I think, M\. SCHACHNER-Well, yes, and I don't know if it pertains more to t,is plan or what we understand to be the potential subdivision p an for the future. M SEELEY-Yes. That really has nothing to do with this. M<. BREWER-I think it does, because I think we talked about al'cess from T¡"Jin Channels Poad for commercial development out to t is piece of property. So I think, therefore, it does. 1'1,-,. SEELEY·-No. I don't bel ieve so. M . SCUDDER-Well, what's the issue? M\. BREWEP-Well, I think we talked, the neighbors asked that no c mmercial access be granted from Twin Channels poad, and I think w, put that in one motion, and there was some talk back and f¡ rth. Mr. Fisher said he owns the property. You said, your a .torney said you owned the property. So we asked Mark to find o t what the deal is, and whoe\/er makes the motion, I'm going to a-~k that no commercial access be granted on Twin Channels Poad. I don't know how everybody else feels. All right. Lets just h ar what the attorney has to say. M,,,. SCHACHNER-O kay. I guess I wa nt to first gi ve my, the same d sclaimer I've given in the past when issues like this have a isen, which is that I'm not sure it's appropriate for the Town t¡ take on the responsibility of ,"esolving these ì"eal p,·operty i'sues, that are essentially real property disputes between P' ivate parties. In this case, Mr. Fisher has his position, and M . Seeley has his position, as I understand them. However, I h've been asked, you did ask me to do that at the last meeting. I did look into it, and, again~ my second part of my d,sclaimer is I'm not sure, and it's up to you all, obviously, I m not sure how much it relates to the current site plan a plication. That's your determination to make, but from the bsis of Qur research, it appears that l'1r. Seeley's attorney's c( ntention that, and I have to, I think, correct something Tim j\ st said. I don't think Mr. Seeley's attorney contended that M¡ . Seele),.' owned that road area, but I did understand him to cr ntend that Mr. Seeley's property was benefitted by a right-of- w y over that property, and as near as L can determine, having rtviewed the deed and some additional deeds filed with the Warren C unty Clerk's Office, as well as some filed maps, there is, in f ct, a right-of-way over that portion of the road. That right- o -way does appear to benefit certain lots. Interestingly, and fì ankly to my SU'-P'" ise, it does not appear that thLs lot owned b'/ Mì. Seeley is one of the lots benefitted by that right-of-way, ard, again, that's the result of my research. I view it, p, incipally, as a private real property issue between Mr. Fisher arel Mr. Seeley, or whomever wants to get involved in it, and tl ere's also another aspect of this, which is there is a public r ad by, a portion of that road is a public road by use, and at a d fferent part of the property, if I'm making sense, that road d es connect with the Seeley property. So there's no question - 21 - --' that he can get Q..D. that road, but as it, it appears to me that he can get Mr. Nealon, at least, thinks he can sense? far as where he can get on on it where his attorney, get on it. Does that make MR. PALING-Yes. I don't know the exact spot you're referring to. MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. It's not on this map, but you follow, conceptually, what I'm saying? MR. PALING-Yes. MR. OBERMAYER-Now this is still, this lot, this subdivision, this has not been subdivided as of yet? MR. MARTIN-No. MR. OBERMAYER-The lot down below is still part of this project? MR. BREWER-Still all one lot. That's why we discussed the access from Twin Channels Road. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. MR. BREWER-Because it is one lot, and if it becomes other than one lot, then that's a different story. MR. PALING-Or if there's other building on it, that's going to need site plan review, too. MR. BREWER-Right. MR. RUEL-How do you propose to modify this motion, if any, based on the (lost word). MR. BREWER-Well, it would be the same condition that we had before, no commercial access via Twin Channels Road. Straight and fon..Jar d . MR. SEELEY-There is no access proposed on Twin Channels Road. MR. BREWER-Then you shouldn't have a problem. Right? I'm. SEELEY-So why do YOU have a problem? MR. BREWER-Because the neighbors asked that there be no traffic on there. MR. SEELEY-The neighbors? I'm the landowner here. MR. BREWER-That's okay. I'm only saying that there's going to be no access. MR. SEELEY-You're not going to tell me there's going to be no access. I'm not proposing any. If I propose some, it'll be back for site plan ,-eview, and at that time, you can worry about it. MR. BREWER-I'm worried about it now. It's a commercial development right now, in a residential neighborhood. MR. SEELEY-It's industrial property, Tim. MR. BREWER-That's fine. Okay. End of discussion. MR. OBERMAYER-Can we, though, as a Board, stipulate that, that he can't access a public roadway into his property for whatever purpose he pleases, though? MR. One, SCHACHNER-Jim, there's a couple of elements of that. keep in mi nd, this is one lot. (Tape Tur ned) Number If you - 22 - "--' '--" "--- -- p-oposed to add a condition like the one Tim has described, you w uld not be eliminating access from this lot onto a public road. I'sue Number One. Issue Number Two, the generic answer to your q estion is if you have frontage on a public road, no, you can't d.nyaccess to it, but the point here is that it appears that t at portion of the lot does not ha\,/e f,-ontage on a public road, b cause it appears that there's actually some private, a small s rip, or thin strip of private land in between the public road d that portion of the property. but, again, I think that estion, again, is a little bit, no pun intended, down the road, b cause nothing anyone's proposing would eliminate the access f"om this parcel to a public road. M '. RUEL-50 if there is that strip of land, there's no need to h,ve a, to modify it and say we can't have commercial traffic. M HARLICKER-Well, that was just on East Branch Road. M BREWER-Not so much that he can't go on his land. It's so mlch that it's a residential area. Do you want commercial t"sffic down there? M.. MARTIN-Why couldn't the condition be worded to say, access to t is project shall be limited to the access as shown on the plat d; tad such and such. M RUEL-Period. Don't say anything else. 1'1, BREI,.JER""There' s no di fference . M.. MARTIN-All right. 50 that would be an acceptable way to say i, . M . BREWER-Kinder way to say it, access is limited to Big Boom R( ad. Did the Haz Mat sheet? M\. MARTIN-Did you prepare a Haz Mat sheet, or go through that, j st giving us an inventory of the various? Okay. We haven't f,ceived that, but he can submit that by a certain time. HARLICKER-One was from David Cook, dated 10/18/94, "Not ing certain that I can attend tonight's meeting of the Planning I would like to express my concerns regarding Site Plan N( . 33-94. The accompany i ng letter depicts one concer n. Another c ncern of mine is to be certain that septic and additional storm Wi ters be kept from entering the near by stream. Be aware that t Ie ravine which is being filled in with concrete and possibly o her waste material. is at the head of one of the many small t1ibutaries which make up the larger stream. Thank you, David C( ok" There was also a petition submitted, and that reads as f llows: "Dear Planning Board Members, I,.Je, the people, residing 01 property with the only road access being by way of Twin Cha,nnel Rd. in the tOlrJn of Queensbury, lrJOuld like to inform Q eensbury planning board members of our concerns regarding the T in Channel Road. We feel that to allow light industry t1affic to either enter or exit onto Twin Channel Road would UI necessarily jeopardize the safety of everyone using the road, i11cluding pedest,"ians and school child,"en walking to and f'"om the blS stop. In addition to safety concerns we feel that the noise g nerated by trucks servicing a light industry would be an a noyance. Thank you for your consideration." And there's 25 n"mes on it. HARLICKER-Tim, there's a couple of letters that should obably be read into the record. MARTIN-The public hearing was left open, I think. M. MARTIN-We did meting was tonight. place a call 50 they were to Joyce Eggleston i nfo,"med . that the - 23 - PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. BREWER-Did we do a SEORA? MR. MARTIN-~~o. MR. PALING-Could I make just one other comment or request? Is it possible to ask you to stop the discharge of liquid concrete on that propertj now? MR. SEELEY-On what grounds, why? MR. PALING-Well, because the further out you push that crest, the closer to water you're getting, and there's no limit on that stuff, and it does spread, because we saw it. MR. SEELEY-And it's being well maintained or contained, as you have seen. MR. PALING-On an ongoing basis, if it's never stopped, if you commit to stopping, I guess it's all right. What I'm saying, I mean, (lost word) is one thing, and just not letting it be done anymore is another thing. MR. SCUDDER-Well, excuse me. arresting the whole, the flow. That berm is very effective in MR. PALING-Yes, if there's not too much going into it. MR. SCUDDER-But it works very well. My suggestion, and my agreement is to enlarge the berm, to elongate it and also to make it larger. It's very effective, and that's going to be backed up by a silt fence, but I wouldn't rely on the silt fence to stop the concrete. MR. MACEWAN-The erosion control measures will immediately, correct? take place MR. SCUDDER··Yes. MR. MACEWAN-According to Rist-Frost. MR. SCUDDER-That's right. MR. OBERMAYER-When do you think the final erosion will take place? MR. SEELEY-We'll get the grading done as soon as possible. MR. OBERMAYER-And then the concrete will stop, right, because you don't want to go into your erosion control, right? MR. SEELEY-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-SEORA? MR. BREWER-Yes. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 33-94, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel: WHEREAS, there is application for: CRAIG and presently before the Planning Board an SEELEY, CHARLES SEELEY, GLENN BATEASE, WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined proposed project and Planning Board action is subject under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, that the to review - 24 - --- -../ -... -...t N( W' THEREFORE, BE IT RI, SOLVED: 1 No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the state Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. D ly adopted this 27th day of October, 1994, by the following v te: M,. OBERMAYER-Are you going to have any, I think I asked you t,is. Are you going to have any exhaust ventilation coming out o there for any welding or anything like that? M . SEELEY-t"o. A ES: Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, M"s. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer t"j ES: I'~ONE A SENT: Mr. Stark M,. BREWER-Okay. Now a motion's in order. TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 33-94 CRAIG SEELEY. CHARLES SELEY GLENN BATEASE, Introduced by Robert Paling who moved for i_s adoption, seconded by James Obermayer: T lat all of the stipulations in the October 26, 1994 letter from R"st-Frost be met. Second, particular attention has got to be p id to the north and east side of the storage building, and the p"ovisions that we list below are not intended to contradict a ything in the Rist-Frost letter. They should only compliment i_. Item Number One, the maximum grade in this area, from the blilding, north to the crest, will be 10 percent of the maximum g·ade. Number T~o, that the greatest èrade of the slope in this s·me area be 25 percent. The distance from the storage building t the crest of the slope be a minimum of 20 feet. Let Item Nlmber Four be dictated by the Rist-Frost letter, and the access b limited to Big Boom Road, from this site, as indicated on the p ah, dated October 24, 1994. That all of the above, including t e Ri~t-Frost letter comments be detailed on drawings, including H,z Mat Sheet, all of this be submitted by November 4, 1994. D ly adopted this 27th day of October, 1994, by the following v t.e: - 25 - --- MR. MARTIN-Yes. We have, obviously, some revised have to be given, here. Again, the standard, could by which we get the revised prints and the Haz Mat could we have that, Charlie? prints that I have a date sheet? l.-Jhen MR. SCUDDER-As fa,- as I' rn concer ned, you can have it tomor ro~.¡ . MR. MARTIN-No, no. You've got a lot of Rist-Frost. MR. SCUDDER-Are you talking about the revised? MR. MARTIN-Yes. Everything that fully comply with the floor. How long? all done, two sets of revised plans conditions of the resolution on the MR. SCUDDER-Mid week. MR. PALING-Let me put a date on that. MR. BREWER-Give him until the end of next week. tomorrow, is that sufficient? A week from MR. SCUDDER-Okay, Friday, a week. MR. BREWER-But you'll have to get together with Bill MacNamara and get all the details put on the plan. MR. RUEL-What date is that? MRS. LABOMBARD-November 4th. MR. PALING-All right. AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Brewer NOES: ¡\lONE ABSENT: Mr. Stark MR. MARTIN-On behalf of the Town, I welcome you and your jobs to this community as much as Native Textiles or AMG. I'm glad they're staying here. MR. BREWER-Stonehurst Subdivision. Okay. MR. MARTIN-Yes. We have a letter dated October 7th, from Rist- Frost. Do you want to read it into the record, Tim? MR. PALING-May I know where the Stonehurst Subdivision is, before ~.Je go further? MR. MARTIN-This is upper Ridge Road. MR. BREWER-Remember we took a ride in there one day, when we went up? MR. MARTIN-This was in for final approval about, for final approval of a phase. LEON STEVE~) MR. STEVES-We got conditional approval, which gives us a six month timeframe. Yes, it had final approval. MR. PALING-I know where it is now. MR. MARTIN-Okay. Regarding Stonehurst Subdivision, using the new road profile shown on the site plans we received today, revised October 1994, a number of lots on the east side of the road - 26 - -- '--'" '-.,..--- '-'" appeared to be at elevations lower than the road. Using the 1982 SI bdivision Regulations, lots shall be graded so that runoff from llts flows to the street, unless the runoff can be directed to tile '"ea'" of the lot if a ~'-Jater COLn-se ex ists there. At a m nimum, lot grading must prevent ponding and divert water away f"om all buildings. Also, for lots having driveways sloping away f10m the road, they must be paved as to provide a high point at o· near the right-of-way to prevent street runoff from entering t.i"le lot. Tl"pically, for lots lOI¡.Jer than the street, proposed g"ading plans indicate that the water will flow in swales along t1e right-of-way to points where it can be discharged off the lot ether to a water course or to the street system. There are no i dications shown how water from the street shoulder will be h ndled. However, the telephone discussions with the applicant tlday indicate he is planning on regrading all the low lots to bing at least the front and side yards to the elevations above t Ie street, except where a drainage easement is indicated. He is a so aware of the above minimum grading requirements. The arplicant should keep in mind that if fill acti\lities occur over tIe areas designated as septic fields, that regrading shall be a lowed to stabilize and new percolation tests conducted to v rify the design sizes and type shown. Provided these s bdivision and grading plans are followed, changes to the plan a e accoptable. M'. BREWER-Okay. How come this, did you change something? Cf ,6¡RL IE 1'1 A I N M,. MAIN-Yes. Charlie Main, the owner. In looking at the stuation, one of areas whero thoy had a cut, a two foot cut, was o e of the wetter spots in the road, and, really, to correct that s,tuate, that's something we should be doing, should be filling r~ther than cutting. So we reprofiled the road to correct that s tuation. That's, mainly, why we changed the road. M:. BREWER-So is this a modification we need to approve or s mething? I'H. MARTIN-'Well, yes. IrJe, as TOI¡.Jn Staff, and I sa>" "I¡.Je" meaning tie Highway Superintendent and myself, have got all sorts of cold f' et over Queensbury Forest, to be quite honest, and we want to m ke sure that everybody's aware and advised as to the, you know, a change in a grading or a drainage, but it's also in the i terest of getting a thorough review done so we take proper p1ecautionary measures now to avoid a problem in the future, blcause nobody wins, whether the homeowner's not happy, the s bdivider's not happy. 1'1 . BRElrJER--Okay. w( '" k? As long as, Leon, I presume you're doing the STEVES-I did the drafting. The engineer is Ray Buckley. '8 not here tonight. I've got the plans het-a, and I can show what the changes are, if you wish to see them. M BREWER-I would just as soon have you give them to our ergineer, and if he approves them, then we should approve them. M . STEVES-He did. He saw them. There are a couple of comments h made there, that, it dawned on me just now, in reading them, wi ere he says the high point leaving the road. We're having the w ngs on the road. So any water within the road should stay w, thin the road anyway. Even if you come off the road at a 10 p rcent grade and into the driveway, no water from the road will c me into the driveway because it's going to stay in the wing. Pi- UL t""¡AYLOR Mf. NAYLOR-It's a two pe1"Cent maximum, ten percent, 50 foot - 27 - '-'" ,. ight-of-way . MR. BREWER-Yes, but the wing isn't in front of somebody's driveway, though, is it? ~1R. STEVES-Yes. MR. MARTIN-All new Town roads are like that. MR. NAYLOR-You can change them if cut back down to the curb, then go would in the City. You can fill your option, if you want to do it. you want to. What you do is up at a long slant, like you six inches above, but that's MR. RUEL-I live in an area where there's a hell of a lot of water at the end of the driveway, where the driveway meets the road, and they're all that way. Is that correct? MR. NAYLOR-No, that's not correct, but that's usually done by lot owners. You get a driveway built, everybody builds their driveway, and then they put their lawn in afterwards, and eveì-ybody doesn't realize that water's got to run off a driveway, not QJl a dr i veway, so they always bu i ld the i r lawns about tv.JO or th,-ee inches higher so the water can't get away. We don't like you out on the right-of-way at all. MR. RUEL-I don't have any lawn there. There's no place for the water to go. MR. NAYLOR-No, but everybody does, and they build it up too high. They don't, and their driveway is always too low. MR. RUEL-Everyone's complaining about that. There's no place for the wate,- to go. MR. NAYLOR-Because they're not high enough with their driveways. MR. RUEL-We don't mind water in the summer, but in the winter it's solid ice. MR. STEVES-The subdivision you live in probably doesn't have wings. MR. NAYLOR-No, it doesn't. MR. RUEL-Wings? MR. BREWER-Swales on the road. MR. RUEL-No, we don't have that. I have a question for you. At one time, apparently, on new roads, the Town use put in a subsurface type road or something? MR. NAYLOR-Years ago, the TOIAln used to put in all roads. All the developer had to do is give them to them, and the Town would gravel, build them, and do the whole nine yards, and when I took office, back in '82, I said, that's all going to stop. MR. RUEL·,·So "'Jhat did yoU do? MR. NAYLOR-So I changed the Reg's to make it so the developer had to pay for all the blacktop and do all the drainage on the development. MR. RUEL-When do you put the final road in? MR. NAYLOR-Some of them were designed with oil and stone. Back in the early days, it was oil and stone. Somewhere in '85, '86, we changed the standards, from oil and stone, and it happened right in Queen Victoria's Grant, because there's some roads over - 28 - '--- -- --- ...-- tlere, if you notice, when you go in there, are oil and stone. T Ie Town Board, at a Town Board meeting with Ron Montesi, they a ·pro\/ed tlj(3'in that night, and they went into effect that night. T lere was no, lets ask everybody and get everybody's opinion. It w s the next day when the Reg's were officially, for a 12, 24 f,)ot_ road, and then eventually I got it transferred, and they l. ft it into the Highway Superintendent to decide if it should be p,ved wings or just a 24 foot road paved. What I took the stance o is every road would be made with wings, because 90 percent of o r lawsuits, maybe 95 percent of our lawsuits, are all drainage p"oblems. M~. RUEL-Well, if this road was put in five years ago. M NAYLOR-Under the old Reg's. M RUEL-It's not a final road, though. and stone, and there's I'll show you nine stone. nothing million M, NAYLOR-It is. It's an oil w"ong with oil and stone, and c ntractors that still do oil and M, . F~UEL'''Is that the final 'road? M,<. NAYLOR That's your final road. What you've got to hope to do i:, see your ward lady. M BREWER-Okay. Lets get back to this. M.. PALING-Okay. These are a number of lots that are adjacent to o e another, and you're going to build up one side in the front o· each lot as you go down. So there's going to be a slope on 01e side of the house. Then it levels off, goes up a hill and d wn again. Is that right? MAIN-Each lot's going to be built up, with a house. PALING-Yes, on the two dimensions, the front and one side. M MAIN-Almost three, four dimensions. MI RUEL....It depends on how steep it is. M MARTU"¡,-Yes. M,. PALING-It says front, side yards. M . STEVES-Right. M,. PALING-Okay. M~. MARTIN-How many lots are affected, Leon, along this crest, or a ong this section of road? M\. STEVES-Five. M . PALING-Five, okay. 1'11~. 1'1,t.,\CEI,.JAI'''¡-I,.Jhich lots are they, Leon? M<. STEVES-Lots 57, 59, 61, 63, and 65. M'. RUEL-That means the elevation of the house will be raised s me, '" ight.? M STEVES-Yes. M RUEL-Yes, on those five. M~. STEVES-Yes. It could or could not. It depends on. - 29 - MR. RUEL-Yes. It depends on how much of the foundation is on the ground? MR. STEVES-Right. MR. MAIN-Actually, what I've done, I've surveyed it out. So there is enough fall from the base of the road, or actually where the house is going to be. So I can tie into a drainage system, so they can actually put on a full basement if they wanted to. MR. RUEL-Most of these will be full basements, won't they? Mf~ . MAIN-That's what I plan, yes. MR. PALING-And the flolrJ of the water is to the street? MR. MAIN-No. It would be off their property. be to the back of the lot. I mean, it would MR. PALING-To the back of the lot. MR. MARTIN-Who's the engineer of record that's going to be supplying the as built? MR. STEVES-Ray Buckley. MR. MARTIN-Okay. MR. BREWER-So all we have to do is offer a motion accepting the modification to that subdivision. Is that correct? MR. MARTIN-The road profile of that subdivision across the road. MR. BREWER-Per Rist-Frost's letter of October 7, 1994. MR. MARTIN-Right, and I would maybe add to that that the as record drawing will indicate slopes in compliance with the Frost letter of. built Rist- MR. BREWER-And we will also number the lots affected, 57, 59, 61, 63, and 65. MR. MARTIN-Right, and then we'll put that resolution right in this file. MR. STEVES-Could you explain that to me? I don't understand what you said. MR. MARTIN-I want to make sure that the final slopes we get out there are what Rist-Frost called for. MR. STEVES-But you can't achieve that on an as built plan. That cannot be shown. The only time you can get that is after a build out. So after each house is in, we can give you an as built of that. MR. MARTIN-I see. MR. STEVES-Do you know what I'm saying? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. STEVES-Normally, the as built plan of the road is given before any house is built. MR. MARTIN-Right. That's true. MR. BREWER-Okay. So how can we? MR. MARTIN-You can't do that part of it, then. That's all. - 30 - '"-' ~' '- ....- M STEVES-Yes. I'm just trying to be practical. M MARTIN-No, no, you're correct. BREWER-So all we have to do is say, modification would be 10-86. Okay. M TO APPROVE MODIFICATION TO SUBDIVISION NO. 10-86 S ONE HURST SUBDIVISION, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved f r its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel: T1at the modification be accepted, regarding road profiles per R"st-Frost's letter dated October 7, 1994. The Lots that would b affected are Number 57, 59, 61, 63, and 65. Dlly adopted this 27th day of October, 1994, by the following v te: A'ES: Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, M". MacEwan, Mr. Brewer N ES: ¡"lONE A SENT: Mr. Stark M, . STEVES-While we're here, under the approval U",at trJe have, t1ere's a six months timeframe, and that's based upon a July 28, 1.94 letter. The six months will be up before we know it. P rhaps we should ask for a three month extension. BREWER-Why not. When do you plan on start building? If we three months, Leon, it's going to be into February. M\. STEVES-I'm talking about the approval with your signature a p'"o\/al. . BREWER-All right. Yes. That's fine. Just an extension for m to sign the mylar? M . STEVES-Yes. Right. W1ere it is on the list, I've called Brian Fear and asked and he says it's next. him BREWER-All right. If somebody wants to offer an extension submission of the mylar, for signature. M TION TO EXTEND SUBDIVISION NO. 10-86 STONE HURST SUBDIVISION, I troduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded b' R0ger Ruel: U,til March 31, 1995 for signing of the plat. D ly adopted this 27th day of October, 1994, by the following v)te: A'ES: Mr. Paling, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. MacEwan, M". Obermayer, Mr. Brewer Ec. ::;). NONE A SENT: M,". Star k STEVES-Thank you very much. M,. BREWER-You're very welcome. Okay. This letter to Joe N"cola? Did you want to discuss that at all? M . MARTIN-Yes. I've got something from Paul I was going to copy t the Board, too. Just let me 90 get it" The Native Textiles R ad frontage, down here on Carey Road. - 31 - MR. MACEWAN-In that motion, we made it very clear to them that it would not be on the right-of-way. MR. NAYLOR-They are on the right-of-way. MR. BREWER-Well, then you go down there tomorrow with somebody and just tell them to move them. MR. MARTIN-Okay. We've got a subdivision coming in for the Columbia land property, there, where Native Textiles is located. You've seen it, or will be coming. You'll be seeing it, and it, basically, it's got the Native Textile piece, basically, like that, and we had, the Town retained a small piece that looks just like that, and they're subdividing, Leon, correct me here if I'm wrong, something like this, aren't they? MR. STEVES-That's correct. MR. MARTIN-Okay, and Native Textile building is sitting here, okay, and it's to allow for our 40 foot frontage requirement for t.his lot here. MR. BREWER-Why are they subdividing it, Jim? MR. MARTIN-They were, I think Leon contractually committed to doing this. I'm not sure about that. I don't know, but I think there's a contractual, but I'm not sure about that. Paul Dusek might know better, but anyhow, nonetheless, they're in. Now, the question L had with this when I saw it was, is this is not 40 foot of frontage on a Town road. It's 40 foot of frontage on Town e.rope,-ty _ All ,- ight. So, and you see my question that I raise with that. So Paul has written back. I just got this back today. "I'm in receipt of a copy of memo to the Town Board from Jim Martin dated October 26, 1994 in reference to the above captioned matter. For the Board's information, I wish to advise t.hat I have reviewed the circumstances concerning the potential subdivision of the property owned by Columbia Development Corporation. It is my opinion that, legally, ownership of land adjoining Town property does not constitute road frontage to satisfy the requirements of the law. Further, although the Town of Queensbury retained the parcel of land in question for purposes of eventually using the same for a road, I note that the contract entered into with QEDC stipulated that the Town was under no obligation to build the road at any particular time. In addition to the foregoing, before any subdivision approval is granted in connection with this project, I would recommend that all papers be reviewed to make sure that there are no restrictions in connection with the same. I trust you will find the foregoing information helpful." And I'll be giving you a copy of this in your packets. MR. PALING-But, Jim, clarify something. That's the road that we all saw on that Native Textile plan? MR. MARTIN-Right, and then you've comes in, and then the Town built this. got the Carey a road in that Park road that comes in like MR. PALING-Yes. Right. Now who owns the little The Town owns it, right? Okay, and what are they with it? When you subdivide it, what happens? piece there? going to do MR. MARTIN-Well, this was retained because the Town owns a 29 acre parcel, that goes, essentially, like this, and the river's out here, and we retained that so we didn't landlock ourselves off. MR. PALING-Okay. You're not going to build on this thing? It's just access? - 32 - '-. ---' '- -.../ M\. MARTIN-No, and that's why it was retained, to provide access, bl t as such, there's no separate, even a separate deed for a 50 f')ot right-of-way here that would allow a Town road. It's just s mply Town property. So there's really no frontage on a Town r ad, but I think what Paul is saying, what's got to happen is, t1ey're going to have to build a road through here to meet that r ,quirement. M,. BREWER-Who's going to have to build a road? M~. MARTIN-Columbia. ding it right now. w y. As you say, the Town has no interest in Leon's representing the applicant, by the M STEVES-Yes. I c nditions, the way it a out it. am. is, l,.Jhat we've we' \/0 gone to done, because of the Paul Dusek and asked him M\. MARTIN-It's on for a discussion item with the Town Board, a so, for Monday night, if anybody's interested in coming. M . STEVES-Right. That's what's happening. We're asking the qlestion, do you care if we use it as a road, and who builds it. W oever wants it first will build it. If Columbia wants to d velop this lot, they have to build the road. Simple as that. D es the Town Board have a problem with that? And that's the q estion we're going to ask them. M,. BREWER-Doesn't the road have to be built to get the s bdivision, though, because it has to front? M.. STEVES-No. Tim, let me go back to any subdivision. For i stance, the one you just looked at tonight, Charlie Main's. BREWER-There is a paper road. M M STEVES-Planned, and the only difference here is, this isn't a panned Town road. It's Town property, and we're asking the T wn, do you object to it being used as. BREWER-Physically, there is a road there, though. M STEVES-The road really. M, MARTIN-Ends right at that property line. M~. STEVES-Ends right here at the property line, at the moment. M\. MARTIN-Now Columbia's committed. M STEVES-To extend it. M 1'1('ìRTII+-To service this lot. M BREWER-Right. M~. MACEWAN-I'm assuming that, for discussion purposes, the s opes and the grades, where the lupine and all that, it's all to tle left of that property line? ' M~. STEVES-Yes. That's all. M.. MARTIN-And then if you recall, from the context of the Native r view, there was some concern that the archeological site was, 1 ke, over in this area. It was actually discovered to be over u in her e . M~. MACEWAN-So I guess the question L would have for you is, why, i- this was a contractual agreement that Columbia had to develop t is way, why ¡"Jeren't !cl.ê. ever told about it when they were up for S te Plan Review, that this was the intent, and why did we go - 33 - --- through such discussions, in great lengths, to try to preserve that area over there when they knew that they were going to be subdividing it down the road anyway? MR. MARTIN-You mean preserving this area? MR. MACEWAN-Yes. We went through painstaking efforts that night. MR. STEVES-It's not being circumvented. MR. MACEWAN-No. I'm not saying that they are I'm saying that maybe we wouldn't have had to any of those issues if we knew that this parcel up for subdivision later on down the road. circumventing it. bother to address was going to come MR. STEVES-Why not? MR. MACEWAN-Because we'd deal with it at the time. MR. STEVES-Well, you would have to deal with it whenever it came up, Site Plan or Subdivision. MR. MACEWAN-That adds a new light on the whole thing, now. MR. OBERMAYER-Where is the ravine? MR. MARTIN-The ravine is, basically, it starts, I think, this is not to scale, obviously, but they, basically, start even way up here, and it goes down like this. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. Why is it being subdivided, then? For tax purposes? MR. STEVES-I have no idea. MR. BREWER-Is there going to be another building to come? Well, maybe these are some things you could find out, Leon, because. MR. STEVES-They don't tell me any more than they tell you. MR. BREWER-Well, I mean, we're asking. You're representing them. i"1R. STEVES-Yes. MR. BREWER-So lets get some answers. MR. STEVES-Obviously, if they're subdividing it, they want to do something more with it. MR. BREWER-I understand that, previously talked to them, we're t.ha.t ra\/ine. but at the meeting when we never going to do anything in MRS. LABOMBARD-Right. MR. BREWER-I mean, they told us that they were not going to do anything, that their ultimate goal was to add on to that building, and that's the reason that we made the stipulation that we did, to stay away from the ravine. MR. STEVES-And the ravine, the actual ravine begins right up in here, comes right down. MR. BREWER-I know very well exactly where it is. MR. STEVES-Right. Okay, very slightly into the property, and any filling of that area right there, or crossing it, is going to be of minimal affect to that ravine. The actual stream itself that begins in the~e, it gets way down in here, and comes down through. - 34 - -- "--" '~ -.../ M,. OBERMAYER-And whe,-e's t.he: collection? s ormwater basin? Where's the big M~. MARTIN-The stormwater basin is right in here. M<. PALING-But I don't. think we t.old them they couldn't develop t "Iat land. M,. BREI^,ER-No. They told us that they didn't "'Jant to, that the>' w ren't going t.o. M S. LABOMBARD-That's right. M,. MACEWAN-They wanted to retain that site for future expansion. M ,. STEVES-I would never tell you that.. M, . PALING-I\!o. M,~. STEVES-Keep your options open, and I keep telling people that a 1 the time, but they come in here and they say, no, we don't. hIve any plans, and then the next day they tell you that, why, I d n't know. 1'1". BREl-JER"'"Because the>' 're dishonest, that's "'Jhy. M . STEVES-I wouldn't do that. I advise everybody to keep their o)tions open. M,. MARTIN-You can always deny a subdivision plan. You have to h,ve a basis. You have to have your review criteria in the Code. M,. STEVES-Up in here, there's a huge flat area that really is, a out eight acres. MARTIN-I'd like to see them build the road. M NAYLOR-I'm not building any roads. M, BREWER--You built one already for them. f rther? Why not go even M,. NAYLOR-Because they haven't paid for the last one, yet. M. S TEVES--Bu t , s bdivision, it uìtil such time T wn road. Tim, wit.h this request coming up, t.his can't even be considered by you, incidentally, as the Town says yes, t.his can be turned into a M,. MARTIN-That's what I'm saying. M<. STEVES-If they grant that stat.ement, then it comes to you for r view of the subdivision. If you approve the subdivision, then, i- Columbia wants to develop it, they've got to go and put the r ad in. M,. BREWER-I understand all that. The question is, that we have, i,~ why are t.hey doing this? Maybe you could enlighten us on t lis. Ask the question. Why did they tell us that they had no i tentions, ever, of doing anything there, and now, after they've g)t their building all built and everything, now, they have all tlese grand plans. M STEVES-Yes. M PALING-I don't remember saying that they never had, and never w uld have. M . BREWER-Well, I'll never say never. I'll say, they had no pans. - 35 - MR. MACEWAN-No present plans to do anything to that back parcel, or that back half of that site, but they did want to keep their option open on moving. MR. MARTIN-If I had to guess, it was a financial concern, here, that there was a lien against that property, and they're trying to, you know, for the purposes of building that building, and they're trying to parcel that off so they could have that, only a piece of that property mortgaged, rather than the whole thing. MR. BREWER-I understand that. MRS. LABOMBARD-Jim, they didn't buy the property for that much. What do you mean there's a lien against that property? MR. MARTIN-Well, Cathy, there has to be. When you on a lot, you have to, you know, the bank places your lot where the house is. build a house a mortgage on MRS. LABOMBARD-The whole issue was, they got the property for next to nothing. MR. MARTIN-That doesn't matter. p,-operty. The lien is on the whole MR. STEVES-Well, not only that, but that building costs a few bucks. MR. MARTIN-So they're encumbering this whole lot, right now, for the purposes of financing the construction of that building. MR. MACEWAN-I think I would like to know what the intent behind the subdivision is for, what the plans are for it. MR. MARTIN-Yes, for that other lot. That's a relevant question. MR. BREWER-You know what L would like to know, Leon, just for my own information, what's the distance between here and the line that they want to subdivide? MR. MARTIN-Well, he could tell you that. MR. STEVES-I can't, off the top of my head, but I would guess 100 t.o 150 feet. MR. BREWER-Then they can't ever add on to this building. That's the answer you want, fellows. They want to put the warehouse on the other side. I'm just guessing. MR. RUEL-Why don't we wait for the application. MR. BREWER-I don't know how they could, if the line is 150, 160 feet, the building they said was going to be, I don't recall how. MR. OBERMAYER-It can be filled in pretty easily, right? MR. STEVES-Yes. MR. BREWER-Site visits will be Thursday the 10th, at four o'clock, because we have a meeting Wednesday. We have a meeting at 6:30 right here with Glens Falls Transportation Concepts. Our regular meeting will be the 15th. MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. Regular meetings are the 15th and the 29th, and T, T think you gentlemen should know. I will be meeting, I just got the letter from Jim today, with the Open Space Institute on the 2nd, which is next Wednesday. MR. MACEWAN-For what it's worth, I read the entire proposal for it, and T think it's an outstanding plan. - 36 - ~ --' \., . -- OBERMAYER-I read it, too. M BREWER-Has anybody else got any other thing they want to talk aJout? I make a motion to adjourn. motion meeting was adjourned. R SPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, T·mothy Brewer, Chairman - 37 -