1983-03-03
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¡¡MINUTES
Queensbury Planning Board
March 3, 1983 8:00 p.m.
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Present:
R. Roberts, Chairman
R. Montesi, Secretary
H. Mann
J. Dybas
K. Sorlin
W. Threw
Absent:
Minutes of the February 2, 1983 meeting were approved as written.
OLD BUSINESS:
Top 0' the World Development, Inc. - Final approval for PUD
Mr. Ralph Boice, Mr. Frank DeSantis, Esq. and Mr. Bryan Harrison present on behalf
of applicant. '
Mr. Roberts stated that he had asked the applicant to grant the Board a delay in
making a decision based on the fact that the Adirondack Park AGency public hearing
had not been held and the Board was looking for their expertise in helping to
arrive at a decision. He said that he had received a phone call at 5:10 p.m.
today from Bill Lamy, DEC project manager on the SPEDES permit and they are
apparently not as comfortable as everyone thought they were. There may still be
some changes required, possibly some would be significant (changing the beds,
moving some buildings and he did not outlaw the possibility of an entirely differ-
ent system). One of the problems is complying with the new Queensbury Sanitary
Code which does not allow sand beds on a ten percent slope and at the very least
it looks as if 5 out of the 7 beds will require a variance to the Code which is
done by our Department of Health (Town Board). Mr. Roberts said the question
tonight is, that feeling there is still the possibility of significant changes
being made, whether this Board feels comfortable to go ahead with approval or
whether they shouldn't have the advantage of more input from the staff of APA and
make sure that DEC is satisfied with what is actually going to happen at Top O'
the World. He noted that there have been times in the past where the Board has
given approval subject to approval of a SPEDES permit and they weren't very happy
with the results.
Mr. Harrison stated that they have been involved for 45 days with almost daily
discussions between EnCon and their own engineers. It was the APA and Soil
Conservation Service that selected the sites for the sewage secretion. They had
been in direct conversation with DEC as late as this morning with no indications
at all that there were any problems with the system. In response to a question
from Mrs. Mann, Mr. Harrison stated that EnCon picked the disposal sites, dug the
holes, witnessed the tests, made the tests and told them where the systems were
supposed to go. Mr. Harrison further stated that there had been a great deal of
cooperation between all the agencies involved, if there were problems they had
been resolved. He said the developer had responded on every single issue whether
it be sewage, lakeshore, water or traffic safety.
Mr. DeSantis asked the Board, in the past 45 days, other than the 5:10 p.m. phone
call, what attempt was made to communicate with DEC. Mr. Roberts responded that
he had attended the day long pre-hearing conference at which time he had asked
Bill Lamy to get something to the Board for tonight's meeting and it happened by
phone at 5:10 p.m.
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March 3, 1983
Mr. Sorlin asked if they (EnCon) had in fact changed their minds or had they just
suddenly realized that what they had decided to do may have been right for them
but does not fit with the Queensbury Sanitary Ordinance. Mr. Roberts responded
that is part of the issue at least, an important part.
Mr. Harrison said they had not asked to vary the Sanitary Code. Every time they
have come forward and think they have done everything they are supposed to do,
somebody pulls something out of the woodwork at the very last minute. If the
DEC designed the system before and the APA and Soil Conservation Service
participated in choosing the sites, why would the Board be uncomfortable in
going through that process again?
Mr. DeSantis, in response to Mr. Roberts request for a delay, said that the earliest
possible date for information from APA staff would be April 21. An indefinite delay
does not work to anyone's benefit because in the staff's recommendations they have
to report the status of this Board's procedure and it's catch 22. Everyone is
standing around waiting for the other to move and he hopes the Board can understand
the level of frustration this engenders particularly when they have been involved
in this process, with this Board initially, for a period of over six months.
Mr. DeSantis stated that the APA is the lead agency in this project so that all
other permits must follow their permit.
Mr. Roberts stated that they had huge boxes of maps, charts, graphs and all kinds
of information - they were looking for help from APA and DEC for interpretation
rather than hiring their own engineer.
Mr. Dybas said that they had all good intentions of relying on other agencies for
engineering input, etc. and it hasn't worked. In attempting to cut expenses they
have been pennywise and pound foolish. This should be a lesson for this Board and
town officials. He would feel very uncomfortable if he were Mr. Boice coming
here tonight to find out that at 5:10 p.m. somebody thinks there is a problem.
He said that in all their dealings with the applicant there has never been the
slightest intent that they would not cooperate and they have done everything beyond
their calling. Mr. Dybas said he felt confident if this is approved and there are
problems along the way, they will be rectified.
Mr. Sorlin stated that, speaking for himself, he has favored this project from
the beginning. He said he echoed Mr. Dybas' feelings that he doesn't feel
technically capable of answering the questions on sanitary sewage. The only input
we've had is from the applicant and we haven't seen fit to get independent input
from a town engineer. However, he agreed that applicant had supplied a considerable
amount of information, they have studied this for six months and feels comfortable
with the safeguards.
Mr. Montesi said that he had a problem in asking for a delay of three weeks when
this Board, along with the Town Board had wholeheartedly endorsed the concept
and they are being asked to approve on a conceptual basis. The applicant has
showed where the homes are, the roads, amenities and he is not sure what the
recommendations of the APA will do to help the Board make a better decision on
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March 3, 1983
conceptual approval. Within the confines of the Planning Board we are supposed
to look forward in the Town, which we have done, we zoned that property for
the type of use these people are proposing, we've looked at the conceptual plan
in detail as a lay person can and we also have the safeguard of APA, EnCon,
Dept. of Health, contract with the Town and Steve Lynn to back us up on the
detail of a specific water or septic system.
Mrs. Charles Adamson questioned if approval is given by this Board, will they
(the applicant) later be able to say that they have a case of hardship because
they have gone ahead and put more money into the project thinking they were well
on their way to being allowed to do it and they will need variances for all
their septic systems and the Board will be forced to give variances because of
hardship.
Mr. Roberts responded that the applicant had already put alot of money into this
project and that would not be considered hardship.
Mr. Harrison stated that if the DEC and APA come up with an engineeringly sound
decision relative to the project, he believes that is the bottom line.
Mr. Montesi offered a motion, seconded by Mrs. Mann to recommend approval of
the total planned unit concept. All Board members voted in the affirmative
with the exception of Mr. Roberts who voted no.
RECOMMENDATION: PLanned Unit Plat
Approved PUD in general concept for development
of the Top 0' World as presented.
Motion by Mrs. Mann, seconded by Mr. Dybas for final approval of Subdivision
Phase I. All Board members voted in the affirmative with the exception of Mr.
Roberts who voted no.
RESOLVED:
Final approval of Subdivision Phase I of Top 0'
the World development pending all necessary
permits from applicable agencies.
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March 3, 1983
NEW BUSINESS
Subdivision Map Revision - Butternut Hill Subdivision
(Charles Maine, Developer)
Mr. Leon Steves present. Applicant seeking to eliminate a spur of a road that
went to the end of a property line. The thinking was that someday they could
open up adjoining property. That hasn't happened and now the owner wants it
eliminated. Mr. Paul Naylor, Highway Superintendent, stated he had no problem
with this. The Board has no problem as long as the other property is not
landlocked. Mr. Sorlin recommended approval of the revision, seconded by Mrs.
Mann. No further comment. Approval was unanimous.
RECOMMENDATION: The Board recommended approval of the revision
to Butternut Hill subdivision eliminating the
small road spur on the south end of the property
as presented on new map.
Off Premise Sign No. 17 - Susse Chalet Motor Lodge HC15
corner Corinth and Big Boom Roads
Mr. Charles Thiex, manager, present. Sign to be located on property of Copper
Kettle on corner of Big Boom Road, with consent of Mr. DeSantis. The sign
would be less than 15 foot setback. The Board does not have a problem with
the location of the sign due to the conditions, however, they cannot approve
an off premise sign with less than a 15 foot setback. Mr. Thiex will have to
seek a variance through the Zoning Board of Appeals. Motion by Mrs. Mann,
second by Mr. Montesi. Motion for approval carried unanimously.
RESOLVED: The Board approved Off Premise Sign No. 17 with
a fifteen foot setback.
Site Plan Review No. 2-83 - Glens Falls National Bank & Trust Co. PC-IA Zone
675 Upper Glen Street
Mr. Wayne Jones, Vice President, present. Proposal to add three more drive-in
teller windows giving a total of six. The three side drive-in windows will be
eliminated and moved to the rear of the building with three new drive-in windows.
There will be one-way traffic exiting on Lafayette Street. There will be a
night depository at the location of the present drive-in window. Application has
been made to DOT. Mr. Dybas made a motion for approval of Site Plan Review No.
2-83, seconded by Mr. Sorlin. Motion carried unanimously.
RESOLVED: The Board approved Site Plan #2-83 as presented.
This will provide for a better traffic pattern on
Glen Street.
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March 3, 1983
VARIANCE NO. 811 - James W. and Susan Z. Mooney
east side Cleverdale Road
LR-IA Zone
Single family house with a 50 foot setback instead of the 75 foot required.
Mr. James Mooney present. Mr. Mooney stated that the existing house is now
50 feet back from lake. with the new house the deck would start 50 feet back
from lake. The septic will be located more than 100' back from the lake.
Mr. Sorlin offered a motion for approval, seconded by Mr. Dybas. All in favor
with the exception of Mr. Montesi who voted no.
RECOMMENDS: The Board recommend approval of this area variance.
Practical difficulty shown is:
1. Existing houses are 50 ft. and to move applicant
would be unfair.
2. Not changing character of neighborhood to be 50 ft.
On the plus side applicant is moving septic system back
farther than present system.
VARIANCE NO. 812 - Miriam P. Brown
Lake Parkway, Assembly Point
LR-IA Zone
To replace an existing seasonal dwelling with a 54 foot setback from lake in
lieu of required 75 foot setback. The new structure to be broader than
the original building, therfore increasing the non-conforming setback.
Mr. Robert Ruggles representing Mrs. Brown. The deck will be 52 feet from
lake, house itself will be 52 feet back. This is further back than the house
that was there. If it is moved further back they will have to remove alot of
trees and the grade at the entrance of the driveway will be more difficult.
Mr. Sorlin offered motion for approval, seconded by Mrs. Mann. Motion carried
unanimously.
RECOMMENDS: The Board recommend approval of this area variance.
Practical difficulty shown is:
1. All other houses are at less than 50 ft. from lake.
2. This does not change character of neighborhood.
Septic system will be back farther from lake than our
ordinance requires.
VARIANCE NO. 813 - Walter W. Goodwin
Pilot Knob Road on Lake George
LR-IA Zone
To add to an existing dock which already extends more than 40 ft. offshore from the
mean low water mark, contrary to Article 7 Section 7.011 (A).
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March 3, 1983
Mr. Walter Goodwin present. Boat draws only two feet of water, sits on bottom
of Lake at end of, summer and fall. Dock is in bad repair and needs replacing,
would like to extend it at same time. The extension would bring the dock in
line with the docks of neighbors on either side. Mrs. Mann offered a motion
for approval, seconded by Mr. Montesi. Motion carried unanimously.
RECOMMENDATION: The Board recommend approval of this area variance.
Applicant's boat now sits on bottom of lake. Ex-
tension of dock will not obstruct neighboring docks.
VARIANCE NO. 814 -
Roger G. Hewlett
Dix Avenue
HI-3A
Mr. Roger Hewlett present. Proposed use - mini storage building. The ordinance
calls for a three acre plot and applicant would be using 2~ acres. Mrs. Mann
offered motion for approval, seconded by Mr. Dybas. Motion carried unanimously.
RECOMMENDATION: The Board recommend approval of Variance No. 814
based on the following:
1. Reasonable use of property.
2. The present owners are operating company as a
light industrial use - we might consider this
an extension of light industrial zone.
3. The original zone was light and industrial.
4. We are only in need of addressing Use Variance
as total property is in the name of the Hewlett's.
VARIANCE NO. 815 - Myron J. Watkins, Jr. and Guy Fiorillo
HI-3A
Mr. Myron Watkins present. Proposed use nursery and greenhouse; including con-
struction of a polyetheline covered pipe frame building adjacent to the existing
now vacant building, to act as the greenhouse. Mr. Barry Jones, Esq. submitted
detailed justification for Use Variance. Mrs. Mann offered motion for approval,
seconded by Mr. Montesi. Motion carried unanimously.
RECOMMENDATION: The Board recommend approval of Variance No. 815
based on the following:
Hardships: 1. High water table.
2. Neighborhood is residential in nature.
These characteristics would deter the use of land for
heavy industry.
The highest and best use is agricultural in nature.
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March 3, 1983
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VARIANCE NO. 816 - Karl A. Paulsen
off Pulver Road on Lake George
LR-IA Zone
Proposed use - to divide a 1.86 acre parcel of property into two lots of .93
acres each in lieu of the required 1 acre and to construct a single family
dwelling on the vacant parcel which would not front on a public road.
Mr. Leon Steves representing Mr. Paulsen. Mr. Roberts asked the Board members
how many of them had seen this property. None of them had because they could not
locate it. He mentioned this because he feels that the mapping is very misleading.
The Town has been maintaining the road to the property, but only as a convenience
to the area, not as an obligation of the Town. Mr. Roberts stated that looking
at the map he had no problem with it, but looking on site it was a difficult one
for him to accept. He said the land is very rocky (Rocky Point) and he wonders
where the septic systems will go. It would appear to him that a Wisconsin
Mound system would be necessary and they do not have the required setback footage.
Mr. Roberts feels that this property has already been divided, perhaps in an
improper manner and to do it another time is the kind of thing they are trying
to avoid. Board members Montesi and Mann also expressed concern about location
and type of septic system. Mr. STeves said that to his knowledge tests have been
made last fall in the presence of DEC to a depth of seven or eight feet. He would
have to check with Bill Glass on this. As he understands it groundwater is en-
countered at 2~ feet, meaning that the system should have half a foot of fill.
Grading of the lot will do this. Mr. Steves said he would investigate this
further. Mr. Dybas stated that some people from that area (newspaper accounts)
say that septic tanks are not suitable in that area. Mr. Sorlin stated that
the people in that area have pleaded with the Board to keep the density down
on Lake George.
Mr. Montesi offered a motion for disapproval, seconded by Mr. Dybas. Motion
carried unanimously.
RECOMMENDATION: The Board recommend disapproval of Variance
No. 816 based on the following:
1. Lot is less than 200' deep, would require
another variance for septic system.
2. It appears that lands on the point
have been subdivided poorly in the past.
3. We feel it is an unbuildable lot.
4. We also feel that it is not a good
idea to approve homes not on a public
highway.
5. Not in keeping with a plan to protect
the Lake in general.
6. Appears to be poor quality soil. Point
of land is called "Rocky Point".
7. We could be allowing an increase in the
density on the Lake. This is one of the things
that the public in Lake George feel we should
control at all costs.
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March 3, 1983
VARIANCE NO. 817 - Pathfinder Communications Corp.
off Buckbee Road
RR3-3A Zone
Mr. Dennis Curley present. Proposed use - radio transmission facility. There
is presently a building on site used by the telephone company. This building
would be used as it now stands. The proposed tower would be 200' tall and
require FCC, FAA approval in addition to an engineering study. Mr. Roberts
asked what effect this would have on neighboring television and radio reception.
Mr. Curley said there would be no adverse affect because of distance that exists
between where they plan to construct and nearest neighbor. Should it occur it
would be on Channel 13 and that can be worked out with a simple Radio Shack
filter. Mr. Montesi asked if there should be a concern about airways and path
to airport. Mr. Curley said FAA would have charge of that, as a pilot he can
say that it is not on any of the approaches to the airport. Mrs. Mann asked if
the tower would be lighted. Mr. Curley said that would be determined by FAA
but for the purposes of this Board, they should assume it would be lighted.
There will be no defoliage. The land around the building was recently cleared.
Mr. Montesi offered a motion for approval, seconded by Mrs. Mann. Motion
carried unanimously.
RECOMMENDS:
The Board recommend approval of Variance No. 817.
The hardship is that almost every site for this
tower would require a variance to the ordinance.
There is no provision in our ordinance for radio
towers. Therefore this is a hardship.
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