Meeting Minutes 9.29.21(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 09/29/2021)
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AREA VARIANCE NO. 57-2021 SEQRA TYPE TYPE II BRETT & PAMELA WEST (MAIN
HOUSE) AGENT(S) ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN PARTNERSHIP OWNER(S) BRETT &
PAMELA WEST ZONING WR LOCATION 106 BAY PARKWAY APPLICANT PROPOSES
TO DEMO THE EXISTING HOME AND CONSTRUCT A NEW HOME OF 5,710 SQ. FT.
(FOOTPRINT) AND A PATIO AREA OF 1,800 SQ. FT. THE NEW FLOOR AREA IS 9,199 SQ. FT.;
A 500 SQ. FT. BARN IS ALSO PROPOSED ADDING TO THE FLOOR AREA. THE PROJECT
INCLUDES SITE WORK FOR NEW LANDSCAPING OF SHORELINE AND RESIDENTIAL
HOUSE, SEPTIC, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, DRIVEWAY AREA, A COVERED
WALKWAY BETWEEN THE MAIN HOME AND A PROPOSED ON HOME ON THE ADJOINING
PARCEL. PROJECT ALSO INCLUDES A 375 SQ. FT. PORTE-COCHERE AND AN ATTACHED
GARAGE WITH AN ADDITIONAL KITCHEN CONSIDERED A SECOND UNIT. SITE PLAN FOR
NEW FLOOR AREA IN A CEA AND HARD SURFACING WITHIN 50 FT. OF THE SHORELINE.
RELIEF REQUESTED FOR SETBACKS, PERMEABILITY, HEIGHT, ADDITIONAL GARAGE AND
FLOOR AREA. CROSS REF SP 51-2021; SEP 342-2021; PZ 210-2016 ; PZ 95-2016; PZ 89-2016; SP
37-2009; AV 47-2007; SP 39-2007 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING AUGUST 2021
ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY ALD LOT SIZE 0.91 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 226.15-1-17
SECTION 179-3-040
JON LAPPER & CHRIS KEIL, REPRESENTING APPLICANTS, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 57-2021, Brett & Pamela West (Main House), Meeting Date:
September 29, 2021 “Project Location: 106 Bay Parkway Description of Proposed Project: Applicant
proposes to demo existing home and construct a new home of 5,710 sq. ft. (footprint) and a patio area of
1,800 sq. ft. The new floor area is 9,199 sq. ft. The project includes site work for new landscaping shoreline
and residential house, septic, stormwater management, driveway area, a covered walkway between the
main home and a proposed home on the adjoining parcel. Project also includes a 375 sq. ft. porte-cochere
and an attached garage. Site plan for new floor area in a CEA and hard surfacing within 50 ft. of the
shoreline. Relief requested for setbacks, permeability, height, second garage, and floor area.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for setbacks, permeability, height, second garage, sheds size total square
footage and floor area for a new home and associated accessory buildings. Project is in the Waterfront
Residential zone –WR. Parcel is 0.91 acres
Section 179-3-040 dimensional, 179-5-020 sheds, garages
The new home is to be located 30 ft. to the east shoreline, 31 ft. to the west shoreline where 50 ft. is required.
The covered walkway is to be 0 ft. from the west side setback where a 20 ft. setback is required. The
project proposes two garages where only one is allowed – the porte-cochere is considered a garage due to
width of open sides allowing vehicles. The project proposes two accessory buildings one is an existing 75
sq. ft. pump storage shed and the other is a new 500 sq. ft. barn, where relief is for exceeding 500 sq. ft.
maximum size for sheds. Relief is also requested for floor area where 9,202 sq. ft. 23.3% is proposed and
8,687 sq. ft. 22% is allowed. Permeability relief where 69.1% is proposed and 75% is required.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this area variance. Minor impacts
to the neighborhood may be anticipated.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the
applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. The feasible alternatives may be possible to reduce
the overall size of the home, shed, increase the permeability.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The relief requested may be considered
moderate to substantial relevant to the code. Relief requested to east shoreline 20 ft., west shoreline 19
ft. The covered walkway 20 ft. Relief for an additional garage. Relief for accessory buildings 75 sq. ft.
in excess. Relief for floor area is 1.3 % in excess. Permeability relief 5.9% less than required.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. The project as proposed may be
considered to have minimal impact on the environmental conditions of the site or area. The applicant
has included new stormwater measures that did not exist prior and proposes a new septic system.
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5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-created.
Staff comments:
The applicant proposes to demolish an existing building to construct a new home. The first floor plan
shows living room area, kitchen, dining room, the porte-cochere, media room, small office, game room, and
a two car garage. Note the area labeled wet bar will have no kitchen elements. The second floor plan shows
bathrooms, closets, bedrooms, and a loft area above the garage. The covered walkway extends to the
adjoining property also owned by the applicant. The plans show the location of the new home, driveway
area, shed location, plantings, patio areas and holding tanks. The plans also include elevations and floor
plans.”
MR. URRICO-And the Queensbury Planning Board made the following recommendation that the
Planning Board based on its limited review has identified the following areas of concern. 1. Size of the
house, FAR. 2. Number of variances and, 3. Setbacks. And that was passed unanimously on September
28th, 2021 by a unanimous seven, zero vote.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Good evening. If you guys would identify yourselves, please.
MR. LAPPER-Good evening, everyone. For the record, Jon Lapper with Chris Keil from Env ironmental
Design, the project engineer. So tonight we have two applications on the agenda, the Main House and the
Guesthouse and they’re separate, and we’ll talk about them separately, but I want to start out just talking
about the history of the project which involves both. So as many of you may remember from being on the
Board, five years ago in 2016 we were here twice, and at that point Brett and Pam had owned for a while, it
was the old Stewart property, Bartlett, Pontiff, Stewart & Rhodes, for many years, on the Point of Assembly
Point, and their intention was to keep the old log house and to renovate it, but because of the constraints
of the lot and the house itself, which is a very old log home, in order to make it livable as a year round house,
they needed to push a little bit towards the lake, and that’s what the APA objected to, but this Board
understood that it was pretty minor changes, but it was overturned twice by the APA. So learning that
lesson now five years later this proposal is to pull it back from the lake. So what we’re showing to begin
with is, the gray on top is where the existing house is. So no part of this is closer to the lake. In fact it’s a
little bit farther from the lake than what the existing house is. So that’s a benefit, and then they’ve already
gone to the Board of Health on both sites and they’ve been approved for septic holding tanks. So that’s
also beneficial to the Town, to the site, because it’s high water table, and the high water table is a
constraint. They can’t have a basement here. So the reason why they have the 500 square foot shed is
just to store everything because they don’t have storage in the house. So to explain what’s going on here,
the floor area ratio request on this is 23.3. So it’s only 1.3%. On the south house it’s 25.6, but all together
it’s basically 500 square feet on each. So that one is smaller, and if you blend it together, which of course
they’re separate applications, we’re talking about 1.9% on the two lots. So this is not somebody coming in
trying to do something dramatically bigger than what they can do, and in truth for floor area ratio we count
the porte-cochere and in this case there’s a covered walkway which we’ll show you, but the covered
walkway is an Adirondack feature, an architectural feature, and just like the porte-cochere, it’s not living
space, it’s open air space. It creates an Adirondack character. So if you eliminated both of those, which
the applicants don’t want to do because it’s important for them, year round, to be able to connect the
guesthouse to the main house, but if you eliminated the porte-cochere and the covered walkway,
everything, well, the total number would comply with the floor area ratio. That’s the difference here, and
that’s not living space, and we all understand in Queensbury we have the rule about the limited size of
garage, and the porte-cochere, because you drive under it, counts as a garage, but it’s not a garage. It’s just
a pull up and unload your packages when you’re coming home after going to Hannaford. So, you know,
the explanation is really that these are minor, important architectural features, but pretty minor features,
and compared to many lake lots that we all talk about, the 23.3 and the 25.6 on that smal ler southern lot,
are still pretty modest floor area ratio requests. So going on to the next most important, permeability.
After discussing this with the Planning Board, they said their recommendation to limit the number of
variances, so in reviewing all this with the project team, we realized that all of the pavement areas are
pavers here, and they’re going to be heated. So it’s lovely to have. So the way it’s designed now, it’s set in
concrete. So that counts as completely impermeable, but working this through with Witt Construction
that designed it, we can make all of that permeable. So we’re going to withdraw the request for
permeability variance on both sites. We’ll be able to comply with permeability by making it pavers set in
stone rather than concrete. So we don’t need a permeability variance and that’s part of what the Planning
Board talked about last night, and we don’t need a height variance on either of these. That was in error.
We’re not asking for a height variance. So now there’s no permeability and there’s no height variance. In
terms of the setback variances, to have the covered walkway attach both houses so during inclement
weather you can go between the guesthouse and the main house, they both have to go to the property line,
obviously, to connect because it’s two lots. So the zero lot line is just to have that connected. We certainly
would agree as a condition of approval that if these were ever in separate ownership that that would come
down so that it would comply, it would be 20 feet from the property line on the north lot. So that’s
something that isn’t a big deal I think if they’re in the same ownership. If they’re in separate ownership
that could be eliminated. On the southern lot, the house is 10 feet from the property line rather than 20
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feet, but that’s the north property line where the main house is. So that actually, we’re respecting the
setback for the southern neighbor and just moving the house closer to the northern lot. So that doesn’t
affect the neighborhood, and also on the southern lot, which we’ll talk about in a minute, but there’s, in
order to make this work as one, there’s a circular driveway that has one entrance. So it’s a good thing for
the neighborhood to limit a curb cut. So here we need a variance because the southern lot isn’t using its
own access, its own frontage as access. It’s using the northern lot to go around the circle. So that definitely
requires a variance, but that’s a good way to eliminate a curb cut, and it also allows to, heavily planted
along the road there, to shield the neighbors, and I guess I should just mention that before we got here, you
know, last year the applicants planted 20 arborvitae along the southern property line that are 10 feet tall
and that’s a buffer for the neighbor on the south, that big hedge. So in terms of what’s going on here, there
are minor requests for floor area ratio, but the site is shielded, not having a driveway and having the hedge
that’s there. So then if you look at the red line, that’s the building envelope, and the constraint on this lot,
because you’ve got water on all sides, is you could build a house, you could take the square feet that we’re
proposing here, put them in that white triangle, and then you wouldn’t need a setback variance, but that
wouldn’t make for a very practical house design. There’s nothing in the house itself that exceeds the floor
area, if you look at it the way I’m proposing. It’s the porte-cochere and the covered walkway that make
up the difference. At the very top, it’s not dark it’s in white, is the pump house and we have a picture of
that. That’s the only thing that would remain from what’s there now. It’s just a historical pump house
shed to hold the pump but they want to keep it because, I mean it needs to be protected and it needs to be
next to the lake, but it’s the only historical part of this that’s going to stay. Laura, could you put up the
covered walkway photos. Thanks.
MR. HENKEL-But isn’t the pump house needed because they use the lake water.
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. HENKEL-Yes, so obviously it’s needed.
MR. LAPPER-But it’s a separate structure. These are just examples that Brett sent us that, some of the
great camps, but the covered walkway is part of the Adirondack camp experience and architecture. On
this site it just works. Two separate residences that they want to connect for convenience. It’s kind of a
lovely architectural feature. And then if you’d go back to the first one, please. If you want this picture of
the shed also, Laura.
MR. HENKEL-The only problem with the ones you’re showing us there is there’s a reason for those
walkways, because it’s not a flat surface to get from one to the other. That’s the only problem.
MR. LAPPER-I’ll show you ours, too. It drops down. So that’s the shed for the pump house. Do you want
to put up the architectural that shows the, to John’s comment, that shows the covered walkway elevation.
MR. HENKEL-I kind of understand. I was there Monday walking the property.
MR. LAPPER-There it is. So there’s somewhat of a grade change, nothing dramatic, but it drops down
between the two. Could you go back to the architecture of the house itself. So if you look at this also, the
second floor is built into the roof. So, you know, within the allowable height this could be a two story h
house with a roof on top of it, but the mass and scale are minimized by this design. They’re all kind of
dormered. So it’s not as dramatic as if there were two floors with a roof on top of that to try and minimize
it, and again, it’s not the house, you know, the house size works for the floor area. It’s just these other
features, the porte-cochere and the walkway, and then, Laura, could you put the picture up of the 500
square foot barn. That’s on the same set. There it is, and that’s also a lovely architectural feature, just for
the tractor and kayaks because again we don’t have a basement. They can’t have a basement, and the
garage is actually used for cars so they can put those away. So the Planning Board was focusing on the
fact that there were a large number of variances, and in discussion and since then we’ve totally eliminated
permeability, and I think that, you know, you look at this with the 23.3 and the 25.6 on the smaller southern
lot, these are pretty minimal compared to what a lot of lake lots are asking for these days, and the main
constraint is just the picture that we with, with the red line for the setback because of the odd shape of
the parcel, and we’re staying farther away from the lake than what’s there now that was done to minimize
that variance, and better than what was approved last time. So that explains really both sites. It gives
the history of how they started to try to keep that log home and try to do something that works and when
we were here last time they hadn’t acquired the southern lot. So they bought the neighbor’s property,
demolished the house, got approval for both holding tanks, which of course was an expense an d an
inconvenience, but it’s a necessary thing when you have a lot with water all around it, and eliminating the
curb cut as well. So we think that on balance this is really pretty minimal, the difference in the two lots
and 500 square feet on each which is not dramatic, and if you said that we had to comply and take away
the porte-cochere and the covered walkway, we believe it would be a shame just architecturally and
functionally, that’s all.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Do Board members have any questions at this time?
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MR. HENKEL-The last time we approved the porte-cochere anyway.
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MRS. HAMLIN-There was mention of future sale. So are you thinking in terms of?
MR. LAPPER-No. That was just, somebody had mentioned that, Lau ra and I discussed that, that
somebody would have a concern if that ever happened. No, they have no intention of, this isn’t.
MRS. HAMLIN-I know they have no intentions, but it definitely can happen.
MR. LAPPER-Exactly, and so for that reason we throw that out as a condition so you wouldn’t have to
worry there would be something built to the property line if it were ever separated. They’ll probably stay
in a trust for a long, long time.
MR. KUHL-Are both lots in the applicants’ name?
MR. LAPPER-Yes. The second lot I think we purchased a couple of years ago.
MR. KUHL-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-I believe they formed an LLC to purchase the second one that they own. So it’s them. It’s
all them.
MR. UNDERWOOD-All right. If there’s no more questions from Board members, I think I’ll open the
public hearing. Anybody from the public wishing to speak, raise your hand. Come up, please.
MRS. MOORE-And, Mr. Chairman, you might want to explain that there could be a time limit.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. We’ll set a time limit and please don’t repeat things if someone has already
mentioned something. If you have something more to add. Please identify yourself..
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
LORRAINE RUFFING
MRS. RUFFING-Good evening. My name is Lorraine Ruffing and I live on Assembly Point. First I feel
that the variances requested are substantial if measured in terms of percentage increase over the existing
or permitted conditions. I’ll give one example that I put in my letter to you. Take permeability. I’d like
to state for the record that the Lake George Park Commission does not consider pavers as pervious. So I
think the issue of permeability still stands. And if you look at the existing property, it is 20.2%
impermeable according to the site development plan. The proposed project would increase this to 30.9%.
This is not just a 10.7% increase. It is a 53% increase if one looks at the relative change from 20 to 31%.
These are not small changes. My second point is that the increased hard surfaces, which you can see by
comparing the present home to the proposed home, garages, barn, walkway, patios and driveway, will
result in increased stormwater runoff which supposedly will be captured by one raingarden, and I don’t
know if you wanted to put up the existing structures that are in the site plans. According to the
Environmental Design Partnership any overflow will be diverted to the lake, that is overflow from the
raingarden. We have increased stormwater runoff from more frequent and heavier rain events and this
compounds the decrease in permeability, and as you know Assembly Point was the site of a HAB’s outbreak
last November and this HAB’s encircled the entire Point including the West properties. Lastly I urge you
to look at the underwater photos in my letter of the West shoreline and they were taken by Kathy Bozony
in 2021 and I ask, do we need more nutrients in the water before we completely degrade our water supply
with stormwater runoff. Given the magnitude and complexity of this project, I wonder if you have had
sufficient time to study it, especially with the recent revisions. So my request to you is that you ask the
Wests to re-design their project to minimize hard surfaces and protect the lake. Thank you very much.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Thank you. Anybody else wishing to speak. Chris.
CHRIS NAVITSKY
MR. NAVITSKY-Good evening. Chris Navitsky, Lake George Waterkeeper. I also would like to start off
reading some history from 2016, their previous application where their argument for trying to keep the
house closer to the lake where it was. Then Mr. Lapper said “anybody else or most people that put a
beautiful piece of property like this on the lake on the point on Assembly Point would want to scrap the
house and start all over again because it is an antiquated, although very classic architecture of this wood
house, log house on the outside, wood house on the inside, and there is an area on the site that could
accommodate a much larger house where what we’re talking about is ultimately 17% floor area ratio where
this could go to 22.” It’s going to be more than that. “So the lot would support a much larger house.
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That’s not what Brett and Pam want to do. They really want to just tweak the house, keep the character”,
again, change in character, “and make what we hope you’ll see are modest changes to make it more livable,
but with the whole intent of keeping what’s been there for 75 years there and just make it a little bit better.”
Also back then Mr. Allison of AJ Architects talked about limiting the impervious cover on the property,
which they’re still going to increase. We started talking about different opportunities and constraints,
and I told him, I said if we’re going to do something like tha t, to move the house or add something, you
can’t really just go ahead and keep on increasing impervious area here, so you need to find ways to mitigate
that if you’re going to have a chance of making this a good project.” So clearly they’re increasing impervious
cover, but this one really was good, because it talked about protecting the areas on the site that were
actually good, and they were talking about not building back where they’re proposing now. So we really
tried to keep it as close as possible to the encroachments that exist there right now, and the reality of what
happens on this site by geology and hydrology, it’s probably the part of the site that’s only impacted by
what’s happening on that site. So as a designer I started looking at this and I said, you know, if we really
came back here and built a much larger structure, which they’re proposing,” and building that structure
in the one area where I right now have pervious capabilities and when I started thinking and taking up the
land for the building, it’s actually much more detrimental to the water quality than to take the land out
here where the Point was. So they said that it would be much more detrimental to the lake to build where
they’re actually proposing now. So giving you my comments, I’ll just quickly run through these, we feel
that the two sections, and I think they should provide the permeability changes because it’s still borderline
I think. So I think those should be submitted. The FAR and the permeability clearly important aspects
to protect water quality in a Critical Environmental Area. We still feel they don’t protect the natural
resources and features on the property. Too much disturbance and it relies too heavily on these permeable
pavers which can have questionable benefits. This is a very highly visible property and it will change the
character and exceeds the mitigation capacity of the lot which is the basis for the FAR. They should
provide a detail on the vegetation to be removed. They’re really cutting all the trees that are important
along that eastern property line where that existing intermittent stream is. Also, when you’re putting that
walkway in, you’re almost tying all those buildings together when you look at it from the lake. That’s
going to appear like those two lots have one large continuous building. So again I think there are
alternatives. They clearly can reduce the floor area. The development will also expand into the areas
where there are better soils which will reduce the areas for proper stormwater treatment. So I think more
information should be submitted.. To change things right here and come in without the proper numbers I
don’t think is fair to the Board or to the neighbors, and they should revise it and make it compl ete. A
revised application and consider the alternatives. Thank you.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Thank you. Anybody else wishing to speak this evening?
PAMELA LESTER-GOLDE
MRS. LESTER-GOLDE-I am speaking for John Caffry who is a resident on Assembly Point, about five or
six houses down from the Wests. “Dear Board Members: I am writing as a property owner and seasonal
resident on Assembly Point. These variance applications should be denied. The fact that each of the two
houses proposed by the West family requires multiple variances shows that the houses are too big for the
lots. The houses and accessory structures should be modified to fit onto the lots without variances. The
rules from which variances are sought - shoreline setbacks, permeability, floor area ratio, and building
height - are there for a reason, to protect the water quality and scenic beauty of Lake George. The private
desire of the property owners to build two oversized homes should not be allowed to override those
important public purposes. The present plans require variances that would be substantial and would
adversely affect the environment. The hardship is self-created. Fortunately, alternatives exist that would
allow the property owners to achieve their goal of expanding their housing. The plans could be revised to
make the houses smaller, move the paved areas away from the lake, and rearrange the layout, all of which
should allow for a project that does not require any variances. The project was improperly classified as a
Type II action under SEQR. These applications are an Unlisted Action under the State Environmental
Quality Review Act (“SEQR”). Therefore, an environmental assessment form must be filed and the lead
agency must make a determination of significance under 6 NYCRR Part 17. Although the construction of
a single family residence, and certain types of variances, are exempt from SEQR review as “Type II Actions”,
those exemptions are inapplicable here because the project actually involves two single family residences,
on two lots, and will require multiple variances. See 6 NYCRRR § 617.5 (c) (11), (16) & (17). The SEQR
review of this Project is especially important because it is located in a “critical environmental area” created
by the Lake George Park Commission. See 6 NYCRR § 617.14(g); § 645-3.8. A coordinated review of both
planned houses should be conducted, pursuant to 6 NYCRR § 617.6 (b)(2)(i) & (3). Thank you for your
consideration of these comments. Sincerely, John W. Caffry” I am also Pamela Lester-Golde. I am
registered Landscape Architect with the State of New York and I happen to be the adjacent property
owner. The FAR on these houses, the two light gray areas that are noted to the north of the proposed
house, those are patios. They are not house, and there are patios projected for the entire side of the north
face of the proposed house. So I find that this representation is misrepresented, the setback requirements.
The pavers are heated, and there’s no permeability as others have pointed out, but I would like to know
what pavers they are specifically using because each paver has a percentage of permeability. Most pavers
are around the 10% range, not 100%. The design of these houses have been set up, both in the main house
as well as in the second house, to have large offices in them as well as a wet bar. Now they all have
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individual entrances to them, potentially allowing these houses to be made into multi-family or to be
turned into commercial or office space. There is no information on the percolation rates that they should
have done in order to do the storm drainage report, and the water table by the Soil Conservation Service
has it at 12 to 27 inches below finished grade. The grade on the center of the site, the circle, t he traffic
circle for the driveway, is at 324. The median high water mark around the Point is 320. So you’re talking,
you already have only four feet and that’s at the highest point. Most of that parcel is down around 322. As
a matter of fact their raingarden is at 322.9, and then you have the mean water at 320.2. That’s roughly
two feet, and their raingarden indicates that the gravel trench that is in it is 11.1 by 11.1 by 4 feet deep,,
meaning that there is no water cleansing. So the gravel is already in the high water mark. So I would find
that all of these issues in regards to permeability and the FAR be denied.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Anybody else wishing to speak?
LISA ADAMSON
MS. ADAMSON-Lisa Adamson, Assembly Point. I live about four houses south of Pam Golde, five houses
south of Brett West, and when I saw that picture go up of the walkways I thought, those are really
beautiful. They really have the Adirondack feel. And then I saw the rest of the illustrations and I thought
that’s not reflective of our neighborhood, but it’s reflective of a few of the mansions that are out there. So
that’s just my subjective opinion. I had sent you all a letter. I wasn’t planning to come tonight, but I’ll
try to read just briefly from the letter because I understood that you don’t automatically read them. So I’m
part of the Assembly Point Water Quality Coalition and we’ve attended numerous of these zoning and
planning meetings over the years. We have an expert limnologist on our team and the rest of us, or many
of us who are laypeople do our due diligence by trying to read all the metrics and understand what the
impacts of the FAR and the lack of permeability really mean. For me my feeling is this project is just too
large, based on everything that’s been said here tonight and what I’ve read. I’ll tell you as a neighbor it’s
very uncomfortable to come and have to say something about another neighbor’s plans and dreams. I feel
like we are in a time when the Zoning Board and the Planning Board has an obligation to be thinking about
reducing rather than making variances on our Town Codes and rules. I was lucky enough to be appointed
to, by Supervisor Strough, and sit on Chris Navitsky’s really excellent LID, Low Impact Development,
Committee for a year, in which we were evaluating Town Codes and have submitted it to the Town. It’s
still pending, to be sure that all of the Codes were increasingly stringent and careful about this very fragile
lake that we’re living on now. We all know that the water quality is degrading and it just makes me
wonder if we can’t entrust our Boards to set the highest bar right now for just saying no to exceptions.
Why do we have exceptions to our rules. So I’m just repeating what I’m sure you’ve h eard many times.
We need to trust you guys to be the ones to move towards limiting rather than making exceptions, because
I really feel that we’re part of an ecosystem that’s at a tipping point. We’re all seeing it, and our lake is
changing in front of. So nothing short of strong limiting and consistent regulation and enforcement in the
areas of construction, septic and land management is acceptable and I feel our engineers and our agents, in
creating these projects, need to identify the homeowners before they get their hopes up that they can build
a dream house that’s really not fair to the ecosystems. Thank you.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Thank you. Anybody else wishing to speak? Any correspondence, Roy?
MR. URRICO-Yes. There are two letters by people that haven’t spoken already tonight. So “It is
disturbing that the Zoning Board of the Town of Queensbury continues to grant variances given the
increasingly alarming knowledge concerning the fragility of Lake George. The Wests are asking for
variances on every aspect of the zoning laws. These are not minor variances. This plan to overbuild two
houses, add patios and walkways that are barely permeable and that defy the 20’ setback is not in the spirit
of protecting the Lake which we all use. I am part owner of a house on Assembly Point. Our family has
loved and protected the Lake for over 100 years. It is discouraging that degradation of the Lake is
progressing at an alarming rate and that people continue to ask for variances to laws which are m eant to
protect the Lake. I ask the Zoning Board to uphold the zoning laws, not give in to requests for variances
that will further add to the Lake’s precarious health, and request that the Wests change their design to
reflect, first and foremost, concern for the health of the Lake. Sincerely, Judith Kempshall 128 Lake
Parkway Lake George, NY 12845” And then, “This letter is in regards to the Public Hearing scheduled
for Wednesday, September 29, 2021 regarding variance requests for 106 Bay Parkw ay (Tax ID No. 226.15-
1-17) and 108 Bay Parkway (Tax ID No. 226.15-1-1.16). In general, I am opposed to variance request
approvals except in circumstances where a small lot size cannot accommodate a reasonably sized home.
Building codes should be enforced except in extenuating circumstances. In this instance, however, the
landowner has two adjacent lots with 0.91 acres and 0.34 acres for a combined area of 1.25 acres. Acreage
this size permits the landowner to construct a sizeable home (or two homes in this case) that would
accommodate nearly any size family. The applicant is planning on building two homes; the first of which
is 5,722 sq. ft. with the second at 3,741 sq. ft. Homes this size, combined with the proposed covered
walkway, patio, and barn are out of character with the homes on Assembly Point and are unnecessary if
they require variance waivers. I am most troubled by the height and floor area variance waivers needed.
Surely, the landowner can construct beautiful homes with a floor area less than 9,199 sq. ft. without the
need for a variance. That outcome would not diminish the applicant’s lifestyle and preserve the character
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 09/29/2021)
7
of Assembly Point. I urge you to reject the landowner’s request for height and floor area variances. Thank
you, Richard Chase” 120 Lake Parkway. That’s all I have.
MR. LAPPER-So the water quality comments, algae and nutrients, here we have septic holding tanks on
both sites, which is, you know, the algae blooms are because of people that have homes that are non-
conforming and that’s why we have, when something changes hands, we have a law that you have to check,
but there’s nothing better for the lake than putting in holding tanks, even though they’re not too
convenient and expensive for the property owner. So this certainly won’t be adding to nutrients. This
project has a complete conforming stormwater management plan that Environmental Design has
submitted. We’re not before you on that because there’s no variances requested. That’s conforming.
Chris mentioned the removal of trees in the center of the site. Yes, to build the houses, but all the trees
along the shoreline were insignificant to buffer the project, were going to stay and the planting plan is
expensive, in terms of adding shrubs and other plants to supplement the trees. Chris also talked about
that the mass of the walkway would make it seem like one big building, but that’s not true, because it’s
light in there, it’s only a roof. So you can see right through it, and it doesn’t look like a building. It looks
like an Adirondack covered walkway, and the rest of the comments were really about water quality, but,
you know, again, permeability, we’re taking it off the table. We’re not requesting the variance. It will
have to comply and will comply. We’ve done the math. So by making the whole thing permeable pavers
we won’t need the variance and did discuss that with the Planning Board last night, and if you want to talk
about the stormwater plan, Chris.
MR. KEIL-Sure. And just follow up on converting to the permeable paver, that’s something that Witt
Construction, the contractor, feels comfortable in doing. He’s done a patio, driveway setting. He’s done
it before. If we do that, count those permeable paving areas as 50%, is what typically the Lake George
Park Commission does.
MR. LAPPER-Queensbury allows.
MR. KEIL-Queensbury allows, then that would be at 76.6% permeability In terms of the stormwater plan,
it would be our lifting the house up a little bit to create a little more drop to those raingardens. I mean we
have multiple raingardens along the site, four in total. So the water’s not being concentrated to a single
feature or treatment. Also, you know, as was mentioned already, there’s going to be a robust planting plan
around the house, including keeping those mature trees, mature vegetation around the on the shoreline.
Queensbury Code doesn’t allow fertilizer in close proximity to the lake. Those are certain things that have
a huge impact on water quality. So all in all we see that as a big improvement on the existing condition of
the lot right now in terms of stormwater runoff and treatment.
MR. LAPPER-And again I guess I should just make sure, because Chris was quoting from 2016. It’ll be the
intention, of course, we came back twice to try and keep the other house, but it wasn’t going to fly because
of the lake setbacks. So this was the second choice, but we think that this is being done respectfully to
the lot in terms of the environmental issue and the Staff Notes that this will be positive for the
environmental, but also the house itself, people talked about the size, and because as I mentioned, with
the, built in to the gable roofs, this isn’t a massive house. It’s really a very, very l ovely house and I think it
is an important lot on the lake, both going around the Point when you see something that’s going to, really
spectacular architecture but also not a two story house with a roof on top of it and I think it’s totally
appropriate and the house, again, the extra square footage is the porte cochere and the walkway. So they’re
not trying to jam a big house like somebody else might here.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. At this time I’m going to close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. UNDERWOOD-And I’m going to poll the Board.
MR. HENKEL-I’ve got a few questions, first. Does Mr. West own some of that property across the road?
MR. LAPPER-Yes, everybody has a little.
MR. HENKEL-Because my wife’s.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-Excuse me. He does not own.
MR. LAPPER-There’s an Association and everyone has some rights.
MR. HENKEL-I know for a fact because my wife’s family had property around the corner on the other side
towards Harris Bay, and they owned a lot across there, and they put some drywells in there to protect their
lakefront property. They put it on the other side there.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 09/29/2021)
8
AUDIENCE MEMBER-No, they cannot.
MR. HENKEL-Sorry, this was years ago, back probably in the 80’s they put some drywells.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-No, they have not. I have lived there for 61 years and I’m secretary of the board of
that Association.
MR. HENKEL-If you remember Dr. Rhodes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-Yes, I do. There are no drywells there.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Just a point of reference, ma’am, you’re not allowed to speak at this point. The Board
is deliberating.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-Well when you are talking about misrepresentation it needs to be corrected.
MR. HENKEL-Yes, I know for a fact, because that’s where a lot of that water comes from, that middle part
there, and then it goes across the properties on the lakeside. I was just saying that could be limited if that
was, but, okay.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Does anybody have any other questions? All right. I’m going to start with you,
Brent.
MR. MC DEVITT-Thank you for starting with me. So here’s what I said. We have a Critical
Environmental Area. We have an eco-system that’s changing. None of us should argue with those points.
What I believe is that we have some revisions and some changes that were made, and I think those may be
good relative to permeability, etc. However, that changed, and it changed and was not reflected as we
walked in here this evening. So I what I want to see is, and I render no opinion one way or the other on
this, but what I need to see, which ultimately I’m not going to speak for anybody else, but may require
tabling this, but I’m just going to tell you what I need to see to give consideration one way or another. I
want to know specifics of pavers. I want to see, I know on some applications we have seen tear sheets,
spec sheets. I want to see the pavers. I want to understand. We can’t just talk about pavers. Google
pavers and you’ll have 27 pages of, so I need to understand specifically what the pavers are, and the
associated good, bad or in between of those. I need to I think better understand, you know, there’s been
some comments relative to vegetation and some things removed. What I would also want to understand
is, if there is to be planting, I want to understand specifics relative to what that planting plan looks like.
So we don’t just say we’re going to plant things. I want to understand what we’re planting. I want to
understand the pavers as noted. The algae blooms that are referenced, the holding tanks already benefit.
The stormwater plan is a benefit. We are talking about things that are good, not bad, but we are also
talking about things which are to me still a moving variable that I don’t understand right now, and I’m
going to guess that not everyone probably does here. So I’m hearing the opposition. I’m understanding
the applicant. I’m looking to understand some of these issues better, and that’s where I’m falling at this
point, Jim.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Cathy?
MRS. HAMLIN-Yes, I’m with Brent in terms of seeing the landscaping plan for sure, and the details, and
just gravel, just to mention it, when it gets compacted it’s not necessarily any more porous than concrete
after a while. So I don’t know if that’s a solution. That’s just something I understand. I don’t know if it’s
true. I think you need to be quite creative. I might even consider a lot line adjustment. The smaller house
is almost compliant and perhaps with a lot line adjustment something could happen there and then we
could concentrate better on the main house. I think there’s far too much parts of this and it may be your
dream house but maybe a walkway, I mean, it’s two separate properties, and they are proposed here as two
separate properties. I appreciate that. Perhaps you need to think of that. If there’s a potential for a future
sale, eliminating that walkway, regardless of what , I mean, two driveways, it depends on how far apart
they are, how busy the road is. You may think it’s beneficial, but having direct access is what’s required
by State law and it may be to the advantage in the future if you ever want to sell it, and I think in that doing
that you could eliminate the circular drive. So as it stands, and also I would like to see that, your
encroachment into the shoreline. I would like to see that substantially less. So perhaps a perhaps a
reconfiguration could happen. So as it stands I am not in favor of granting any of these variances.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Jackson?
MR. LA SARSO-Right now, you guys have spoken to a bunch of things. I agree with pretty much
everything my fellow Board members have said. I just want to say if we were to approve it, assuming those
changes did go through, I would like to see that setback approval be conditional, if it does get sold, it does
change hands, I would like to see that included in there. If that was in there, I would definitely be closer
to a yes, assuming that those changes were made. I could definitely get to a yes, but as it stands right now
I’m definitely leaning towards no without those changes.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 09/29/2021)
9
MR. UNDERWOOD-John?
MR. HENKEL-Yes, Mr. McDevitt and Mrs. Hamlin definitely brought up some good views there. They
said it better than I could ever say it, but I don’t really have any problem with where the house is situated.
That’s good. I’d be a little concerned on too much pavers on the lakeside. If they could reduce that a little
bit I’d be happier. Obviously we’re not dealing with height anymore or permeability, according to what
you’ve told us, but we’d like to see some percentages there. The permeable pavers closer to the lake is
what I have a big problem with and also kind of the covered, the walkway. I kind of understand that in
some of those pictures that you’re showing us, but in this respect the property is fairly level and I don’t
know if there’s really a need for that, but that’s where my concerns are, but otherwise I think it’s a fairly
good project.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Ron?
MR. KUHL-I think, you know, the setbacks, the other house, the older house, had setback issues. I have
no issues with that. Second garages, you’re trying to do something in front of the house. I realize it
enhances the view of the house. The biggest issue I have is floor area ratio. Long and short that’s it. I
mean you’re building a big house. I think things could be changed to get the floor area ratio in balance.
Other than that, I mean I’m not in favor of it at this time.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Roy?
MR. URRICO-Yes, I’m basically in agreement with everybody else so far. I think when you see something
that’s so voluminous in terms of variance requests, many times we try to break it down into bitable bits,
but this one is hard to do that. Everything is so interrelated here. So I think we need to do a better job of
trying to mitigate what you’re asking for, and I’m not going to repeat everything everybody said, but they
made some great points, and the permeability also, not only the pavers themselves, but they need to be
kept up.
MR. LAPPER-That could be a maintenance plan.
MR. URRICO-So I think the maintenance plan I think has to be brought out in here as well at some point.
So that’s where I stand. I’m not going to be able to approve it tonight, but I want to see some better
mitigation for what you propose.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, I think we need to tread lightly here and I think we need to review this and send
it back to you for re-consideration, you know, with some major changes in effect. The existing building
that you have on that site fits on that site, and maintenance of the Critical Environmental Area which
surrounds the Point should be more important than the grandiose plan that’s been proposed here this
evening. This maximizes building structures and impermeability on the property and we should all be
concerned with that. At this point in time, the existing requests for largely oversized bedrooms, common
areas as well as large kitchen areas could easily be shrunk by 1/3rd to 1/2 . I think you still have a great camp
concept that you could roll with on this one. As far as the adjoining over to the second property over on
the other side over there, too, I think that the great camp concept has always been something that’s been
part of the Adirondacks. I don’t really see this as an intrusive element of your design. I think that at the
same time you have to respect the fact that you’re reducing almost 9,000 square feet of building space
which is much more, you’re in a very prominent location on that Point out there and I think you need to
scale this back by 2,000 square feet maybe even more. You could still accommodate and have yourself a
wonderful location, a wonderful home. I think your plan emphasizes all those elements hat we like to see
in the design and things like that at the same time, but you’re going to have to pass muster with the APA
and I don’t think that we, I think it would be wrong for us to approve your project with the size that you’re
proposing here. I think you could dial it back, you could fit in better. You’d still have the same elements
that you want to have. So at this point in time I think we’re going to go for a tabling motion here.
MR. LAPPER-I would ask you to table both of them.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. I would think that it would make sense to table both, this and the following
one.
MR. LAPPER-These are all good suggestions. I mean we’re not surprised, and I apologize that it was
through the Planning Board discussion that we just figured out reducing the permeability so we don’t need
a variance. So we certainly need to document that, but we’ll take into account everything you said and
come back with a better plan and hopefully it’ll be approvable.
MRS. MOORE-So I’m just going to add a couple of things in here. When you do make your motions,
you’re going to make two separate motions. With the second motion in reference to that other lot, in
reference to the public hearing, you can open the public hearing and leave it open. For this current
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 09/29/2021)
10
application, I would suggest you re-open the public hearing before you table it, and then on the applicants,
what’s your timeframe? As you know I’m swamped.
MR. LAPPER-What could you accommodate?
MRS. MOORE-The potential for the second meeting in October, if that works, and then we just have to
figure out a date for this particular project for submission of information.
MR. HENKEL-So on the 27th of October.
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. HENKEL-Okay. With any kind of submittal by October 1st, or?
MRS. MOORE-I need to advertise it.
MR. LAPPER-How much do you need, Laura? We’ll take as much as you can.
MRS. MOORE-I know.
MR. HENKEL-So you think that’s going to be enough time, then, October 27th?
MRS. MOORE-I would probably give them potentially to October 8th, and if they decide at that point that
they need to table it further, then we’ll consider a tabling motion at the October 27th meeting, but I’ll know
by October 8th.
MR. LAPPER-I think we can make that and I appreciate that, and we’ll try to make that happen.
MR. HENKEL-Okay.
MRS. MOORE-And just as a matter, part of your discussion is that you’re re-opening that public hearing.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. I’ll leave the public hearing open.
PUBLIC HEARING RE-OPENED
The Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Queensbury has received an application from Brett & Pamela
West. Applicant proposes to demo existing home and construct a new home of 5,722 sq. ft. (building
footprint of 5,030 sq. ft. and covered walkway of 692 sq. ft.) and a patio area of 1,800 sq. ft. The new floor
area will be more than 9,199 sq. ft.; a 500 sq. ft. barn is also proposed and maintaining the shed adding to
the floor area. The project includes site work for new landscaping shoreline and residential house, septic,
stormwater management, driveway area, a covered walkway between the main home and a proposed home
on the adjoining parcel. Project also includes a 375 sq. ft. porte cochere and an attached garage. Site plan
for new floor area in a CEA and hard surfacing within 50 ft. of the shoreline. Relief requested for setbacks,
permeability, height, additional garage, and floor area.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 57-2021 BRETT & PAMELA WEST (MAIN HOUSE),
Introduced by John Henkel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Brent McDevitt:
Tabled to the October 27th, 2021 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting with any new information to be
submitted by October 8th, 2021.
Duly adopted this 29th day of September, 2021, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Kuhl, Mrs. Hamlin, Mr. McDevitt, Mr. LaSarso, Mr. Henkel, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. McCabe