02-23-2022
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/23/2022)
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
RD
FEBRUARY 23, 2022
INDEX
Area Variance No. 5-2022 Cerrone Land Holdings 1.
Tax Map No. 301.18-2-1
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTH’S MINUTES (IF ANY) AND
WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
RD
FEBRUARY 23, 2022
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
JAMES UNDERWOOD, ACTING CHAIRMAN
ROY URRICO, SECRETARY
JOHN HENKEL
CATHERINE HAMLIN
BRADY STARK, ALTERNATE
MEMBERS ABSENT
RONALD KUHL
MICHAEL MC CABE
BRENT MC DEVITT
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. UNDERWOOD-Good evening and welcome to the Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals meeting of
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February 23, 2022. Tonight we have a single applicant, Cerrone Land Holdings, the City of Glens Falls.
Their agent is Hutchins Engineering. The project location is Sherman Avenue, Ward 3.
OLD BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 5-2022 SEQRA TYPE TYPE II CERRONE LAND HOLDINGS AGENT(S)
HUTCHINS ENGINEERING OWNER(S) CITY OF GLENS FALLS ZONING MDR LOCATION
SHERMAN AVENUE APPLICANT PROPOSES A 45 LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION OF A
49.5 ACRE PARCEL. THE LOTS RANGE IN SIZE FROM 0.47 AC. TO 1.57 ACRES. THE PROJECT
INCLUDES A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION PROPERTY. THERE IS TO BE TWO ACCESS
POINTS TO SHERMAN AVENUE. THE SITES WOULD HAVE ON SITE SEPTIC AND BE
CONNECTED TO MUNICIPAL WATER SUPPLY. PROJECT INCLUDES A 20 FT. NO CUT
BUFFER ON THE NORTH PROPERTY LINES. PLANNING BOARD REVIEW FOR A
SUBDIVISION. RELIEF REQUESTED FOR LOT SIZE AND SETBACKS. CROSS REF SUB 2-2022;
SUB 7-2021 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING N/A LOT SIZE 49.98 ACRES TAX MAP NO.
301.18-2-1 SECTION 179-3-040
TOM CENTER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 5-2022, Cerrone Land Holdings, Meeting Date: January 26, 2022
“Project Location: Sherman Avenue Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes a 45
residential subdivision of a 49.5 acre parcel. The lots range in size from 0.47 ac. to 1.57 acres. The project
includes a homeowners association property. There is to be two access points to Sherman Avenue. The
sites would have on-site septic and be connected to municipal water supply. Project includes a 20 ft. no
cut buffer on the north property lines. Planning Board review for a subdivision. Relief requested for lot size
and setbacks.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for lot size and setbacks for a proposed subdivision in the Moderate Density
Residential zone. MDR. Parcel is 49.5 acres.
Section 179-3-040 Dimensional
The applicant proposes 45 residential lots ranging in size from 0.47 ac to 1.57 ac where a two acre lot
minimum is required where lots do not have access to both sewer and water. The project has access to
municipal water but will have on-site septic systems. In addition, relief is requested for the setbacks for
Moderate Density Zone - Rear setback required is 30 ft. proposed is 20 ft., Side setback required is 25 ft.
and 15 ft. is proposed, the front setback of 30 ft. is not proposed to change.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
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In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this area variance. The project
minimal to moderate impact on the neighboring properties. The applicant has indicated some lot sizes
are similar to adjoining neighborhoods.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the
applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. The feasible alternatives are available to develop
the parcel with compliant lots.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The relief may be considered substantial
relevant to the code. The number of allowable lots would be 22. The setback relief would be 10 ft. to
the rear and 10 ft. to the sides. Lot size relief from 1.43 ac -0.43 acres.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. The project as proposed may be
considered to have minimal impact on the environmental conditions of the site or area. The project
would convert an existing leaf dump to residential lots.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The project as proposed may be considered self-
created.
Staff comments:
The applicant proposes a 45 lot subdivision for a 49.5 acre parcel. The plans show the lot arrangement
with two access points to Sherman Avenue.”
MR. URRICO-The Queensbury Planning Board passed a motion that based on its limited review did not
identify any significant adverse impacts that cannot be mitigated with the current project proposal, and
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that was passed unanimously on February 22, 2022.
MR. CENTER-Good evening, Tom Center with Hutchins Engineering. As Laura may have informed you,
we’re going to ask tonight that this be tabled to next month’s meeting as our attorney and several of the
owners from Cerrone cannot be here this evening. We hope to be able to present everything for you next
month, but we knew that we had to table.
MRS. MOORE-Again, if there were questions of the Board members I would present that information so
that Tom could bring that information back.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I had a question regarding the central part of the property where the leaf dump is.
Why are you preserving that part and taking down the woods around the whole perimeter? Because it
seems sort of contrary.
MR. CENTER-Well we did a full Phase I & Phase II Environmental Assessment and in going through that
process with the amount of debris and things that have been in there, it’s environmentally safe, but DEC
said for us it needs to be maintained in one person ownership which would be the homeowners association
and that it would have to be used for passive recreation. So other than that, it’s almost 30 feet deep in
some areas. It’ll have to be removed. It can’t be built on, but it can be used for passive recreation. So
that’s why we presented it as it is as a pocket park in the central portion of the lot.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Is there any sense that after all the years of dumping leaf droppings with all the
chemicals that people use on their lawns that you’ve got a problem in there?
MR. CENTER-No. We did a full Phase I & Phase II Environmental Assessment with test pits and testing.
We have a copy of that full report. That was in conjunction with the Cerrones and the City of Glens Falls
for the cost of that. Because that was my concern when we started this is what do we have in the soil, and
the DEC was comfortable with that testing, under the understanding that if it was going to be left in place
that it had to maintain one ownership and our proposal was to use it as passive recreation. They didn’t
have any issue with that.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Because my issue after looking at the site was like you have piles around, you know,
it’s kind of around the perimeter of the property, and I was thinking would it make more sense, if you were
going to have it for recreational use, to pile everything up into a big pile.
MR. CENTER-Those piles are, we did some additional testing and those piles are all going to be, there’s a
lot of stumps. There’s a lot of tree branches, things like that. We do have some, had some discussions
with Galusha to come in. So they’re going to take those piles out, and that’ll be in the landscape plan when
we move forward to do that, to create that pocket park. So those piles are going to be taken down, do
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some de-compaction in that central area, and let it go back to natural and be maintained similar to across
from our office on Haviland Park where they have the trails through the woods, through the fields there.
We’d be doing the same thing in the central portion.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Do other Board members have any questions at this time?
MR. HENKEL-So you’re saying there’s no way of bringing any of that closer to that middle section?
MR. CENTER-We are backed right up with those interior lots to that middle section, and that’s why we
went out and we removed several lots from the original sketch plan after going up and doing some
additional testing to see where the perimeter of that fill material was.
MR. HENKEL-You have five lots, or the .5 acres, five lots that are under that half acre which is going to
create some problems maybe in the future, especially two of them, you’ve got one that’s only a quarter acre
and then smaller.
MR. CENTER-Well there’s Lot 15 and 16 that’s an error on the map. Lot 15 should be. 66 and Lot 16 should
be .82.
MR. HENKEL-I figured it out.
MR. CENTER-So I saw that yesterday when we were going through it. I was talking with Matt. Those
would be corrected. Those are in error. Lot 15 and Lot 16 ,those are in error. They’re just over a half acre.
Which is very similar to the neighbors to the west and east of those lots.
MRS. HAMLIN-Could you just give me those dimensions again real quick. Lot 15 was what?
MR. CENTER-Approximately .66 and Lot 16 is approximately .82.
MRS. HAMLIN-Okay. Thank you.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Any other Board members have any questions at this time? One of the other things
I was wondering was like when we look at some of the smaller subdivisions, like down the road you have
about a, the ones.
MR. CENTER-Across the street?
MR. UNDERWOOD-No, I’m just talking further down on the east end of Sherman Avenue down there.
That one that’s on the south side of the road.
MR. CENTER-The one right across the street has quarter acre lots that has shared septic systems with
large homeowners association portions between Sherman Avenue.
MR. HENKEL-And they stopped that after a few houses. Schermerhorn owned it. Is it Sherman Pines
you’re talking about?
MR. CENTER-No, the one right across the street.
MR. HENKEL-Because it’s Sherman Pines that had those two shared septics for a while.
MR. CENTER-No, yes, just to the southwest there, kind of left of the cursor, those are quarter acre lots
with those large homeowners association portions. Those all go to a central septic system as opposed to
what we’re proposing is the individual septic systems.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Why did you want to go individual and not a central system?
MR. CENTER-Because of the problems over the years. They tend to have issues with buildup on the
outside of the trenches. It’s just having these individual septic systems is a much better design. Plus with
the maintenance free design, this is a maintenance free community, very similar to Sweet Road. So they
will have that in their package to maintain the septic tanks within that homeowners association. So
there’s actually further protection with regards to the septic systems with the individual tanks. We’ve
got good well drained soils here. We went out and did test pits with the Department of Health already.
They were comfortable with these wells around the parcel.
MRS. HAMLIN-So to clarify, so you’re saying that HOAP’s are going to actually help address, in other
words, the individual homeowner is not going to maintain the septic. It is going to be.
MR. CENTER-Correct. It would be part of the homeowners agreement to have the septic tanks pumped
out and they would get a better price for it. They would be able to schedule them. Again, similar to the
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garbage removal. It would be one company as opposed to six or seven different companies as opposed to
the maintenance of the driveways for shoveling and the lawns. That’s also why we’ve clustered the houses
together. There’s smaller houses. If you’ve been to Sweet Road, you’ve been to the Cerrone’s other
subdivision over in Wood Creek in Moreau, South Glens Falls, off of Feeder Dam Road, that’s pretty much
a similar design where they have individual septic systems. The houses are close together with the shared
homeowners association. This one in particular offers a 12 acre pocket park in the middle which we’re
proposing to have walking trails and access from several points. We’re also leaving the buffer along
Sherman Avenue so it actually sits back. We’re not building all the way out to Sherman Avenue. We’ve
left a buffer there of natural wood line between Sherman Avenue and the subdivision.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I’m going to guess that there’s going to be a lot of sentiment against the project from
the people on Algonquin. They’re yards looking, with no real buffer left. It’s going to be a minimal buffer.
Why did you not consider having a wider buffer like you have on the north side?
MR. CENTER-The road is defined by the, around the pocket park area and trying to develop on either side
of the road. Again, with these types of houses, depending on the lot, the house may be built, you know,
we’re talking 17 to 1800 square foot houses, and mostly ranches. Again, I think there’s on colonial in Sweet
Road subdivision, and I think most of them in the Wood Creek subdivision are the 17 to 1800 square foot
ranges. So depending on the house layout there would be more of a buffer if we can keep it closer to the
road. Also with the homeowners association, as Mr. Steves explained last night, he lives in the Sweet Road
one, they do have language within their homeowners association about taking down trees and things.
They have to go through the homeowners association. So they can’t come in and clear cut the lot. So the
intent here is to keep the houses close to the front property line, keep the lawns close together. They’re
all going to be maintained by the same company once they come in and work their way through the whole
subdivision. So we’re keeping that developed portion closer to the road. We had to get around the area
that we can’t develop and keep the houses as close to that, starting from that position.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So no accommodation for like an HOA pool or anything?
MR. CENTER-No. Pools in the lots? I don’t think there’s going to be room with the septic systems.
These are predominantly going to be, you know, three, maybe some of the larger lots four bedroom houses.
So likely there wouldn’t be. It’s restricted based on the septic system. It has to be built in the backyard.
So you’re held to that. Maybe in some of the larger lots towards the back end, which, again, the
development is going to be closer to the road. They might be able to fit a pool back there, but most of
those lots all have woods on either side.
MR. HENKEL-I mean they could put an above ground pool obviously.
MR. CENTER-You can’t get a pool permit for an above ground pool on top of a septic system.
MR. HENKEL-It’s still going to create a problem with setbacks when they start putting in larger garages,
which everybody does.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Any other questions from Board members? I guess I’ll open the public hearing, then.
Does anybody from the public wish to speak?
MR. URRICO-Jim, do you want to mention that we have here tonight.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. We only have five here tonight. So we’re not going to make any decision this
evening regarding the project. We would accept public comment if you have something pertinent to add
this evening, or you can wait until the next meeting. It’s up to you.
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
AUDIENCE MEMBER-When is the next meeting it’s going to be on?
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MRS. MOORE-I think it’s the 22.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-Of March?
MRS. MOORE-Of March.
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MR. HENKEL-March 23. It’s a Wednesday.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-Will we get notices in the mail like we did last time?
MRS. MOORE-At this time, since we’ve re-advertised it twice, there’s nothing that triggers it to be re-
advertised to you individually.
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LARRY WEAVER
MR. WEAVER-My name is Larry Weaver. I live on Lambert Drive. I was the first house, 36 years ago, on
Lambert Drive. I have not seen the map until tonight. So I wasn’t sure how it was all laid out. My only
concern is over the last 36 years Lambert Drive has become a cut through from Sherman Avenue to Peggy
Ann and from Peggy Ann to Sherman Avenue, and with this new development I’m sure there’ll be a lot of
people coming out of the development and turning left onto Sherman and then left on Lambert to cut
through to Peggy Ann and down to Dixon. Just consideration maybe of a back entrance or an exit onto
Peggy Ann Road to cut down on the traffic on Sherman and Lambert.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Thank you. Anything else?
MR. WEAVER-No, that’s it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Thank you. Anybody else wishing to speak this evening? We’ll leave the
public hearing open.
MRS. MOORE-There’s some written comment.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Roy, do you want to read the letters in this evening.
MR. URRICO-Yes. “I live at 712 Sherman Ave and like my neighbor who sent you the email below I would
also like to voice my opposition to the proposed subdivision on upper Sherman for the very same reasons
my neighbor Chris listed below. I have also adopted the roadside through the town for the past few years
and the amount of trash I pick up on the side of the road is a lot and consistent and this subdivision along
with increased pollution and traffic will only add to this. I hope the Board will do the sensible thing and
not approve this. I also did not receive any notice on this but for my neighbor letting me know. Sincerely
Ted Peltier” I’m not sure what address this is. “Hi, Karen for the record I would like to express my
opinion on the upcoming Jan. 26” of course that’s been postponed to today “public hearing regarding the
proposal to build a 45 residential subdivision on Upper Sherman Avenue. I am adamantly opposed to such
a use for this land. Sherman Avenue has heavy traffic 24 hours a day which includes loud motorcycles and
long haul and industrial trucks at all hours. With 45 new residences, being built this will increase the
number of vehicles by an average of 90. More noise, more congestion, and more vehicle exhaust, adding to
less clean air to breath. The wild animals up here freely cross the road and are slowly being forced out of
their habitat. With the loss of his acreage to them we will continue to see the wild animal population
decrease. The somewhat quiet, peaceful residential life we have enjoyed is quickly becoming a thing of the
past as more building overtakes our community. As a longtime homeowner here (my family settled here
in 1963) I strenuously ask you to consider a more environmentally friendly use for this land. Thank you
for your consideration. Christine Germain, 709 Sherman Avenue.” “Regarding the Public Hearing Notice
I received regarding approval of the construction of 45 residential units on Upper Sherman Ave.,
Queensbury, N.Y. I am fully in favor of this project as the need for quality constructed homes in our area is
needed desperately. As you are aware, interest rates are currently favorable and will trend higher in the
future. If an area is to be developed, I am more in favor of permanent housing constructed by a local quality
builder, rather than rental units on that property. I am in favor of approval of this application. Sincerely,
Terry Gordon 70 McEchron Lane Queensbury, NY 12804” That’s it.
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MRS. MOORE-For the audience and Board members, it would be the March 16, it would be the first
Zoning Board meeting.
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MR. HENKEL-Mike won’t be here the 23.
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MRS. MOORE-There’s probably only one Zoning Board meeting. So March 16 would be the Zoning
Board information.
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MR. HENKEL-Okay. With any new information by the 1 of March?
MRS. MOORE-I don’t believe there’s any additional information being added to this project at this time.
MR. HENKEL-Okay. Do you want me to table it?
MR. UNDERWOOD-Do you want to come back up and make any more comment?
MR. CENTER-I’m all set.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Then I guess I will leave the public hearing open for the next meeting and
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it’ll be on the public to inform all your neighbors if they want to speak. The meeting will be on March 16.
Until then we’ll table the application.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/23/2022)
The Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Queensbury has received an application from Cerrone Land
Holdings. Applicant proposes a 45 residential subdivision of a 49.5 acre parcel. The lots range in size from
0.47 ac. to 1.57 acres. The project includes a homeowners association property. There is to be two access
points to Sherman Avenue. The sites would have on-site septic and be connected to municipal water
supply. Project includes a 20 ft. no cut buffer on the north property lines. Planning Board review for a
subdivision. Relief requested for lot size and setbacks.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE 5-2022 CERRONE LAND HOLDINGS, Introduced by James
Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roy Urrico:
Tabled to the March 16th, 2022 meeting.
Duly adopted this 23rd Day of February 2022 by the following vote:
MR. UNDERWOOD-And it will be the first item on the agenda probably.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-While he’s here, just a question on the park. I understand why they can’t develop
that, but I’ve been living there for 20 years and it’s a leaf dump back there and then they stopped using it
for many years. Environmentally, I don’t understand why they can’t build on something like that, because
the earth can, at 30 feet deep, if you fill it in.
MR. CENTER-That’s some of the materials that are in there. We are going to do de-perking an de-
compaction of the surface so that we can allow trees and grass to grow back in those areas. We’re going
to go through it, take those piles down and then do some de-perking and de-compaction of the surface so
that we can, so the trees and growth can germinate and re-grow in those areas. But based on all of our
testing that we did with DEC, all the way down to the bottom which would be an astronomical expense,
they’ve agreed that it could be used for passive recreation if it’s going to be left in place.
MRS. HAMLIN-So to clarify, DEC is saying unless you do that, excavate all the way down, you may not
build on this area.
MR. CENTER-Right. Like anything else, the entire 12 acre area.
MRS. HAMLIN-Is unbuildable.
MR. CENTER-Could be used for passive recreation. They didn’t want to maintain individual ownership.
That’s why we removed those other four lots that had back corners and pieces that were closer.
AYES: Mrs. Hamlin, Mr. Stark, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Henkel, Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Kuhl, Mr. McCabe, Mr. McDevitt
MRS. MOORE-Just for the audience’s information, if you wish to look at plans, you can look at them either
on line or you can come into the office and look at those plan sets, but all this information is available on
line. I’m pulling it actually from the website. So it’s available. So, I apologize, if you have questions that
you want to discuss with Staff, you’re more than welcome to. I mean, Jim, maybe I’ll answer this question,
but they’re done with this portion of the meeting.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-I’ve lived there almost 20 years. I had a builder build those lots right behind me.
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They were very limited to one acre lots. They couldn’t go smaller than that. So in the 21 century with a
lot of carbon being released, I just wondered, the density seems to be a lot more increased here for the
homeowners.
MRS. MOORE-So that’s the relief that’s being requested because this particular area requires two acres.
So that’s the discussion that will occur with the Zoning Board of whether they intend to grant that, and
there’s specific criteria that they go through to make that determination.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-And like they said a lot more animals do migrate right through there, and the other
thing is a lot of cars. Like people say on Lambert, the accidents over on West Mountain Road and Upper
Sherman.
MRS. MOORE-So maybe that’s something that you want to identify in a public comment to the Board. I
mean I can’t provide a response. The Board members can’t provide a response. So, I mean I would
encourage you to either prepare it in a letter format to present it to the Board for information. Again you
should probably take a look at the criteria so that you understand that there’s criteria that only the Zoning
Board looks at and there’s criteria that maybe you would address to the Planning Board. The Planning
Board will look at that through a subdivision review.
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AUDIENCE MEMBER-Do I write a letter to them?
MRS. MOORE-You can write a letter to either Board. And you can write pretty much a similar letter to
both Boards but recognize that the Zoning Board is only tasked with the evaluation of five criteria and the
Planning Board is tasked with a little bit different review criteria.
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MR. STARK-The Planning Board will get it after the 16, whatever we come up with.
MRS. MOORE-If it’s approved. I mean we don’t know that yet. Did you adjourn?
MR. UNDERWOOD-I’m going to end the meeting at this point in time.
MR. URRICO-I’ll second.
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING OF
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FEBRUARY 23, 2022, Introduced by James Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roy
Urrico:
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Duly adopted this 23 day of February, 2022, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Hamlin, Mr. Stark, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Henkel, Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Kuhl, Mr. McCabe, Mr. McDevitt
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
James Underwood, Acting Chairman
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