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2005-04-26 SP MTG20 253 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #20 APRIL 26, 2005 RES. 216 7:00 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER MEMBERS OF THE QUEENSBURY RECREATION COMMISSION DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION HARRY HANSEN 1.0 PROPOSED COMMUNITY CENTER – INITIAL PRESENTATION Four presentations scheduled th 1. April 27 North Queensbury Fire House th 2. May 4 Queensbury High School Auditorium 3. May 10th West Glens Falls Fire House #1 4. May 12th Queensbury Activity Center Mr. Joe Fusco Member Recreation Commission- (Power Pointe Presentation) Thanked the Town Board for allowing time for the presentation-The Commission has worked very hard on this, I have been on the Commission for over two and half years and it has been a top agenda item during those two and a half years at least and discussions with Harry was before that. We have thought about and planed for this extremely hard, we thought about every possible question that someone might have and we tried to answer those questions, however we recognize that someone might have a question out there that we have not thought of, if we do not know the answer to that question we will say we do not know, but what we will also do is promise to get the answer for you by researching it and get back to you within a day or two. What is the is the Recreation Commission? As most of you know the legal framework was established in 1964 under Section 243 of the New York State General Municipal Law. What do we do? Basically the Commission has an obligation if not legal, a moral obligation to provide quality recreational programs for our citizens that will contribute to the physical and mental and social wellbeing of all the individuals in the community. Who are we? We are a seven-member group of dedicated volunteers. Key word here volunteers, appointed by the Town Board. Our Chairman this year is Jack LaBombard. 254 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 What is the Department of Parks and Recreation? The Department of Parks and Recreation is under the auspices of the Rec. Commission. They were established in the mid 70’s as a Recreation Department, became the Department of Parks and Recreation in 1987. What they do? The same thing that the Commission does, they are committed, they have a staff that is committed to providing services and opportunities for recreation throughout the community for all ages, from the cradle to the I will not say the wheel chair but close to it. This is who they are. Harry Hansen is our Director, Steve Lovering, our assistant and the other people in our department. The Department of Recreation comes out with two brochures a year that lists our programs very attractive, very comprehensive brochures that informs the community of what programs are available to them. Everyone in the community from the little guy with the soccer ball on the left to the senior citizen on the right. The next few slides are going to deal with our exterior facilities. And I will just take a moment to say that they are second to none. Most of you know that. I would put up our parks and recreation and our Departments Parks in the Town of Queensbury against anyone in New York State in the nation for that matter. We have a wonderful, very comprehensive and very appealing to all interest groups. Gurney Lane Recreation Center it has a sixty two hundred square foot swimming pool with a diving well, picnic facilities, sledding hill, hiking trails, cross country ski trails, appealing to a broad range of interests in recreation. If you ever what to see how busy this place is in the summer time take a ride up there on a hot summer day. Ridge Jenkinsville again at the present time undergoing some renovations there with a tennis and basketball courts that will be put up within the next, they have already started. We have the softball fields for softball leagues; there is also a picnic pavilion, ice-skating area very comprehensive park, a wonderful area for a park. Hudson River Park done on the Hudson River is one of our newer parks at the end of Big Boom Road. This features a boat launch with a dock facility, there is softball courts there basketball courts and other recreational opportunities. Again a beautiful setting for a park, right on the river. Hovey Pond is one of my favorites. I like to think of it as an esthetic park, it is a place to go where it is quite, where is it very serene, relaxing, there is a walkway around the pond with benches to just sit down and just contemplate anything that one desires. Recently a gazebo has been built, Soil and Water Conservation I believe helped us with that and it has a walkway out into the marsh so you can 255 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 observe the wild life and the fauna. A wonderful place to spend a lunch hour if you are trying to get away and relax. Glen Lake Boat Access Area That is a new dock for car top boats and canoes. No motorized boats allowed in this area. A wonderful place if you are interested in kayaking or canoeing getting some exercise and recreation, drive your car up there, there is parking facilities and put your canoe or your kayak in and paddle around Glen Lake. Again a very serene area. Freedom Park located on Glenwood between Bay and Quaker. This is a barrier free and emphasis barrier free, it is a playground for all children, but especially for children with disabilities, there are no barriers here for a child to enjoy an afternoon of play and fun. Hudson Pointe Nature Preserve Again another wonderful spot to spend a Sunday afternoon. Hiking trails here, biking, snowshoeing in the wintertime, cross country skiing and a wonderful place for nature education programs. West End Park I understand is one of our first parks that the Town operated or the Department operated. It is on Luzerne Road, west of the Northway. Again, basketball area here, picnic facilities and an open area for all sorts of and types of play for children. South Queensbury Fire House Park located on Dix Avenue behind the South Queensbury Fire Department. There is a basketball court here, picnic pavilion and also we flood that in the winter for ice- skating. This area is not owned; it is the only one that is not owned by the Town. This slide shows the facilities that are used by the department, basically for our programs, tremendous uses is made of the Queensbury School gyms and pool as well as the Activity Center next door. But, it might be time, it is time for us to realize that the pressure on the School Facilities, and I should mention also that the school has been tremendous in working, we have a tremendous working relationship with the school in using their facilities. But, as the schools grow and the pressure on those facilities become greater and greater it stands to reason that the Department does not have high priority in scheduling our programs there. So, it will become more and more difficult as time goes by to be able to use the school facilities. We still intend to use it even after this facility, the proposed facility is built. But, we would not have to depend on it as much and the same is true of the activity center. The Senior Citizens would love to have that area for our spot to hold Senior Citizen meetings and programs. This slide shows, that within the last ten years our registration for programs has increase a hundred and forty nine percent that is about fourteen point nine percent a year average over a ten year span. Basically what it is telling us is that our people, our Queensbury residents are taking full advantage of the opportunities afforded them through the Department of Parks and Recreation. This slide as a complement to the other one shows that seventy seven 256 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 percent for example in 2004-2005, seventy seven percent of our non town owned facilities, over a five year period you can see the basic average about seventy eight, seventy seven percent of our program are held in non town owned, non department owned, non recreation commission owned facilitates. What we are saying here is that people would ask if there is a need? I think we can make that statement. Why build a community center? This is a question that the Rec. Department has the Rec. Commission and the Department has been wrestling with for probably at least four to five years. We have come up with three basic reasons, why a community center should be built. The first there is a tremendous, with the popularity of our swim programs there is a tremendous need for a town indoor pool that can be used twelve months a year as much as ten to twelve hours a day. I can give you an example, as a Senior Citizen if we want to go to an open swim program it would be great for us to have an open swim program in a pool at lets say ten o’clock in the morning. Well, obviously the school pool is not going to be available for open swim for senior citizens at ten o’clock on a weekday at ten o’clock in the morning. The second reason that we have discussed at great length was that we need to become and I mentioned this earlier we need to become less dependent on Queensbury School Facility as great as they have been to us and for us I think there is a tremendous need for us to become less, and less dependent on those facilities for our programs. Finally, we need to fulfill the commission’s obligation, a moral obligation in my opinion, to provide affordable recreational opportunities for our citizens. So, we are creating a community through recreation with friends, family, improving our health and having just plain good old time fun. Now, this is what we are proposing, what we will be proposing not only to the Town Board but also to the community. You have recently purchased fifty acres of land that is adjacent to the town hall and if you can just follow, this building is the highway department, this is the town complex, this is the activity center. This property is adjacent to that on Haviland Road and this is Bay Road going north. This is the northern access to the ACC Campus off of Haviland formerly known as the Limbert property. We need about ten to twelve acres for our facility. This is the proposed layout, there are a couple things I would like to point out here too, you see the walkway in the back here it goes right over to the Activity Center parking lot. It is just a quick jaunt for someone who is, I will say it, a Senior Citizen who is in a program here at the Activity Center to take a walk over for a swim at the Community Center. It has a parking area for two hundred cars, with a circular drive. (Unknown-noted that the walkway could be used for vehicular access between the two buildings) So, ten to twelve acres of that fifty-acre plot would be what we are proposing. This is initial concept design, eighty four thousand square feet, it is tough to comprehend what eighty four thousand square feet is like, the Barton Elementary School I believe is about seventy five thousand square feet so this would be slightly larger, if you are kind of putting it in perspective. The first area and a very important part of our program as we talked about earlier is the pool and diving well. This area right here, this is diving well with the diving boards, these are eight lanes of pool, this would be an instructional area with a zero entrance. Zero entrance means, that you actually you do not step into this pool you walk from a flat surface gradually into the water and this would roughly be about three to four foot of water here. So, you could even bring in a wheel chair into 257 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 there or for an older person who would find it difficult to step down into a pool off of steps it would be a very convenient way to enter the pool. Again, if you are looking for a comparable this pool is about a third larger than Gurney lane. Gurney lane is about sixty two hundred square feet we are talking just the water area not the deck. Gurney Lane is about sixty two hundred square feet this pool is about ninety five hundred square feet just the water area. There are locker rooms and I will point that out in this area right here, men’s and women’s locker rooms they will also serve the gymnasium and we will get to that in a moment as well as the pool area. These are bleachers, and what will we use this for obviously swimming classes, competitions, aqua aerobics, open swim, anything having to do with water sports or water fun you could use this pool and diving well for. The two gymnasiums to full court gymnasiums with bleacher areas, storage, bleachers on the ends and access to the locker rooms. Recreational sports, open gym, exercise, anything you can do in a gym anywhere you would be able to do here. There will be three community rooms, that is right down here. These are dividers, it could be used as one big room or it could be used as three separate rooms for different types of presentations, shows, family shows, other type of community events. Again, limited only by ones imagination. This is a lecture, meeting hall, room, right here next to the community room, right near the front entrance. We estimate that probably the Town Board would want to hold their meetings there, it is an elevated or a theater type of room as you see in the picture. Easily to see the presenter, easily to see any visual presentation or audio presentations that are going on. Do you know the capacity of that Bob? (Unknown-I think we have that at about a hundred and fifty) So, you very well could have a town hall meeting, a town planning board, zoning board have all of your meetings in this lecture hall. Multi purpose rooms there will be two of them, they are located right here and what would you use those for, pee wee wrestling programs or mat rat programs, senior aerobics, what you see on the bottom there is a class room of senior citizens aerobics that is being held at the activity center. All sorts of exercise programs, classes again only limited by ones imagination. This is my favorite right here this is a walking, jogging track that is elevated around the gymnasium. You talk about having to buck the crowds at the mall in the wintertime in January when you want to go for a walk to keep your health up and we have a lot of people that do that, we have a walking track here that would be open to the public. It is elevated and it is around the gymnasiums. There is an elevator right here where you see the little x that would bring people up to that walking track. This area right here and I will get to that in a minute is a warm up area where there might be a couple of stationary bicycles or treadmills just to warm up before you begin your walk or to cool down afterwards. Exercise or cardiovascular equipment area this is not a full-blown equipment or exercise room with weights or anything of that nature. What you see there is probably the limit of what would be in this area, just convenient to warm up or cool down. This is what the initial concept would look like from the outside if you notice there are plenty of lights, natural light, for this facility. It fits in with the environment beautifully. We especially like the idea of the circular drive to drop of youngsters so parents do not have to drop them off at 258 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 a parking lot, they can drop them off at the main entrance and watch them enter the building and be on their way. Another question everybody is wondering how are we going to pay for this? Well, it is an investment in our community’s future that is the way we look at it. The projects estimated cost is about sixteen point five million. It can be financed with thirty-year municipal bonds. Speaking with our budget officer the annual bond and interest payment on a thirty year bond for sixteen point five million would be about nine hundred and eighty four thousand a year. That is based on a four percent interest rate. Several ways to pay for this, at least two that we are aware of and possibly you folks might know more. We could use the excess annual sales tax revenue as a bond payment, which would be in that neighborhood. This would take the place of any rebate for Warren County property taxes. Another option would be to institute a town property tax if that were the case it would be about based on the bond payment principal and interest would be about thirty four cents per thousand of assessed value. So, if you have a home that is worth a hundred and fifty or assessed at a hundred and fifty thousand it would be fifty-one dollars annually to the homeowner on a two hundred thousand dollar home it would be about sixty-eight dollars annually. On a three hundred thousand dollar home it would be approximately a hundred and two dollars annually. Some of these costs amount to a dinner for a couple and a movie. The O&M costs that we estimate and these are not just guesses they are based on sound data. The personnel costs we are giving you a range of about three fifty to three eighty-five and that is based on 2007 salaries, contractual salaries. The supplies and utilities about two sixty five to two ninety for comparable buildings of this size that we have researched for a total O&M cost of about between six fifteen to six seventy five. Supervisor Stec-Is that all rec. department staff or is that the additional staff? Director of Parks and Recreation Harry Hansen-That is only the building staff. Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-Now again we emphasize that membership and program fees would pay or off set the annual operation and maintenance expenses. Councilman Brewer-Why would we have membership and fees for the programs? Director Hansen-If we have a membership fee that membership fee would entitle you to a lot of free programs, the open swim times, the open gym times, use of the track, there would be no fee in addition to that. If you wanted to use open swim and you didn’t have a membership you would have to pay a daily admission. The membership fee will also get you discounted program fees, so if you did not have a membership and you wanted to take an aerobics class it would cost you X amount, if you had a membership it would X minus. Supervisor Stec-Is this typical? 259 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-The YMCA does that. Supervisor Stec-This is how it is done elsewhere, this is not an exotic rate structure this is how these facilities are. Councilman Strough-If a program is popular, will Queensbury residents get priority? Director Hansen-There will be a resident and non-resident fee also. Recreation Commission Member-But Queensbury Residents will get priority. Supervisor Stec-They do now? Recreation Commission Member-Yes. Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-If we did not do it that way and everybody that has a membership can use every program that we have out of the facility for free we would have to jack up the memberships a little bit more. This way if you want your kid in the swimming program and the mat rats but you are not going use anything else you pay a membership fee and little bit extra as opposed to a much higher membership fee. This keeps it down for everybody in town. Supervisor Stec-What I am hearing the way that you are proposing to handle the fees and the money end of this facility is very similar to the way that we are doing the fees now. Everyone in the Town is on the hook for some general fund tax responsibility for the rec. department but then in addition to that if you are not using it then you are not paying any fees but if you are saying I am going to participate in this basketball league you are going to cut a check. Director Hansen-Let me give you an example, right now we do swim lessons at the school pool and we only charge the participant for the instructor and any equipment that goes with that program. If the school was charging us a fee to use the building we would have to add that to it. That is what will be added to any program fees that we have. Supervisor Stec-It is worth pointing out that several rec. commissioners have very close ties to the school, it is not like they don’t know very closely what each other is doing in both the Town’s rec. program and the schools program. I am going to ask the question, the Queensbury School District I do not know if they have taken an official position on it or not, certainly you have had an opportunity to talk to the school what is the school’s feeling on this project? Director Hansen-The school has taken a very positive position at a faculty meeting. 260 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 Recreation Commission Member-I have talked to the President of the school board and he has also very supportive, I know Brian Howard the Superintendent of Schools is very supportive. Mr. Lloyd Mott Recreation Commission Member-Having been the director of health and athletics’ in the school for close to fifteen years I realized the challenges to schedule programs in our facilities and still maintain all the athletic programs. In the past seven years the things that have increased like the girls and boys lacrosse, the girls soccer and all the other programs plus the increase in the number of students is significantly increased so that the school is just going to get to the point where they are going to find it very difficult to keep opening their facilities. We used to schedule every Tuesday night, every Wednesday night and every Thursday night a gymnasiums or more than one open to the public starting at seven o’clock and very often the coaches were just ready to finish practice and adults were wanting to get in there to set up for their volleyball or basketball or something and that even creates a little bit of tension because the coach wants to finish their practice. The school is very much in favor of this for two reasons, number one they are going to be able to release a lot of tension on their facilities and then improve their offerings to their own kids, number two they are going to look at the opportunities to use these facilities. That opens the doors to our students our senior citizens our young adults our youth, our very young children it is just a very positive thing for this community. I know the people at school for the most part are very much in favor of it. Recreation Commission Member-I know the school in particular, years ago they had to close down the diving portion of the pool because of a change in the safety issue, this will open up diving, competitive diving in the community again and also an eight lane competitive pool is going to be a treasure around here. The people that I know in the swimming and diving community around here have been salivating with the idea, we will have a facility in this area to be able to be used. Councilman Brewer-When the Rec. Commission does that will it be the competition will there be a fee for that? Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-Nothing has been finalized yet but there will be fees for the usage of the facilities from outside organizations. Supervisor Stec-All that is standard, that is the way it is done? Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-Yes. Councilman Strough-From what I understand institutions will also be able to reserve blocks of time, from the Senior Citizens, to you mentioned the Queensbury School but it is entirely possible ACC, Glens Falls and Lake George School District might be interested in reserving blocks of time for their athletic activities. I would assume that they would pay for their block of time there will not be an 261 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 additional charge for the users that are coming from that institutional facilities specifically for that use. Councilman Boor-The personnel, what are we talking about there? Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-It is going to be open year round, from six am to ten pm Monday through Friday, six to six on Saturday, ten am to six pm on Sundays, a hundred hours per week, fifty weeks a year. You are going to need people at the desk, people there… Councilman Boor-According to the paper, that the O&M would try to be recovered in fees, and as a Board and as Town Employees we typically give three percent raises per year and if you compound that out over thirty years obviously those figures get considerably larger. I am just assuming we would be raising the fees appropriately to cover into the future. Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-We are expecting over time more people to get memberships, more usage. Councilman Boor-The difference here is because it is a municipal building it is not like the private sector where there is a turn over, you just hire somebody at seven dollars an hour and then they go and you hire somebody else at seven, these people stay and they get the three percent a year and it is a career and they are paying benefits. It is not quite the same as in the private sector, I am concerned about those figures moving forward. Supervisor Stec-That is a question I wanted to build on, what Roger is asking, the positions that we are talking about adding, not all of them are going to be full time career positions a lot of them are going to be part time seasonal part time. Councilman Brewer-The amount of employees that we hire in the summertime, but if we hire two hundred in the summer now that number is going to be reduced isn’t it? Director Hansen-Yes. Councilman Boor-In government we have tremendous benefits when it comes to medical and health insurance and things you do not find like necessarily at the YMCA or the other facilities. That is why I want to know if these are full time employees? Supervisor Stec-When you worked that three hundred and fifty thousand dollars number for personnel? Director Hansen-We assumed that building manager would be a full time individual the custodian the cleaners during day and evening would have to be full time union employees, beyond that you are dealing with seasonal part time individuals, you are not dealing with… 262 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 Councilman Boor-You have got three or four full time. Director Hansen-The front desk, counter people might be working twenty hours a week and you might have five of them. Supervisor Stec-Roughly you might say half of that three hundred and some odd thousand-dollar figure might be full time people and the other half might be part time. Director Hansen-Half would be high I would say maybe a hundred thousand it is less than half. Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-The is going to be available to people five thousand hours per year. You can use it by an annual membership fee, daily admission fee or program fee. There will be child sitting services there so Mom who has a couple of children at home would like to get an exercise program they can drop the children off and do her exercise and pick them up afterwords. Supervisor Stec-As far as child sitting services has anyone looked into, there are all kinds of regulatory to say we are going to provide child sitting services do we need to get all kinds of New York State Dept. of Health certifications? Director Hansen-Not for the child sitting a child for a half an hour or an hour at the most while the parents are in the program. Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-Finally, we are creating a community through recreation, health with family, friends and fun. Supervisor Stec-Very good presentation. Mr. Lloyd Mott Recreation Commission Member – In holding these meeting to provide information and to share and we appreciate good questions. The questions that you ask tonight help us prepare for planning for this facility how to administer the facility and use the facility and every time we get a good question it is going to help us answer the next time as well. So, everybody that is on the recreation commission is a member of this community. My children grew up and graduated and some of them are coming back and living here now I have grandchildren. The things that I have seen, I have visited Cooperstown, which is a really nice community they have terrific community center when I visited with them and talked with them about it, they said you will never be sorry. The other places we visited it is the same story. When I moved to this town twenty some years ago I really thought I was moving into a classy place and I still think that way. One thing Queensbury doesn’t have is a center, we have the mall I hate to think that is the center, it is certainly a valuable place. We have the school, it is probably the closest thing to a center that we have I think this is the going to be a tremendous addition to this community that I have always thought was a classy community 263 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 and I really believe the people once they understand what we are trying to accomplish for them and for us will support this. Supervisor Stec-I agree, I think this has been talked about and have been building toward tonight for a long time, for a long time there was an information gap and I think it was a frustration on some people, the dollar amount got out before a picture or a layout or presentation like this. I think the more people that see this presentation the more people you will win over. The more people that hear a Lloyd Mott that most people in the community know your professional background and when you say Lloyd Mott has been to the mountain at a Cooperstown or a Jack LaBombard or I look around this room, there are not too many faces in this room that don’t have a connection both to the Town and to the School. We have got time the clock doesn’t th necessarily run out on May 16 when presumably the Town Board th will do our end of things, really to the July 26 referendum I know that we had a very productive meeting with the Seniors, the Seniors at time in the periphery, at times at the heart of some of the discussions about this but I think the location and I want to get back to, I want to build on something that John said earlier about the center and other entities that will use this. I am not sure John if you mentioned ACC when you rattled off a lot of the other high schools. Certainly the original plan two years ago the thought was ACC and everyone in the Community said that is a wonderful spot for this. For whatever reason it didn’t happen, but it is adjacent to the ACC property, that is why I really wanted to say look the driveway intersects with ACC. So, this ties in both the Town campus and the ACC campus. ACC is another one of those gems that I think you talk in the business circles or the educational circles ACC is recognized as one of the big assets of this part of the State. So, I think this will be an asset that will see benefit to ACC. I know that ACC may not have been able to get around to saying ok, you can put it here on the campus but, I can tell you ACC wants access to a facility like this. I agree with you I think that it will get tremendous use there are going to be questions that are going to be hard to answer and you are not going to make everybody happy. Councilman Brewer-The questions are going to be answered and asked but I think it is important that we do not just have the four th meetings we do not stop after the 16. Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-We are going to continue to have meetings. You are going to miss a lot of people that are not at the meetings so if you had eight or ten meetings it doesn’t matter. Recreation Commission Member-We are going to community groups a number of local community groups the Rotary and those kind of people have asked us to present at their meetings. Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-Am I correct in assuming th that on May 16 you are going to decide if this goes to referendum? Once that happens and you make that decision we go out full bore in terms of getting out into the community and doing presentations 264 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 similar to this one. I would like to take a moment to thank JMZ because these guys especially this young man at the end here I cannot tell you the number of times that he had to change visions, Harry and I would go through this and we don’t like that we want to change this so Ryan would make the change and then we would come back a day or two later well we don’t like this and Ryan would make the change and never complain once. So, I thank you publicly Ryan for your cooperation and Bob too. Supervisor Stec-The sketch I like it, I think it is attractive. Councilman Boor-Questioned if there are solar panels on the building and could there be, if you wanted to heat the pool could you do them with solar panels? JMZ – Representative - We have so much to talk about what is going to go into this facility, we have to look at all the economics and the benefits. Noted use of glass in the building used for day lighting. Supervisor Stec-Spoke on the GEO Thermal project at ACC…would that be considered on this project? JMZ-Representative-Spoke on the grant funding for the ACC project, will reduce heating and air conditioning costs with the use of the GEO Thermal Unit. Some of the other things we would like to look at radiant heating on floors because you are then heating just the surface… th Supervisor Stec-The time line that we have talked about May 16 th through July 26 getting to bid in the winter from the architect perspective we are not overly aggressive on the time line or is this time line going to work for you? JMZ-Representative-Yes. We have looked at that and we think that we can make that. The plan is to go to bid sometime in February. Supervisor Stec-Spoke about the article in the paper and the timing of the Special Election. Councilman Boor-On a special election are there absentee ballots available? That time of the year it might be something we want to look into, I think everybody should have the opportunity to vote on it. Supervisor Stec-I do not know…noted those eligible to vote will have to be registered voters in the Town of Queensbury. Questioned if Mr. Hansen had spoken to the YMCA leadership about the proposal? Director Hansen-We had a meeting with the YMCA, the Commission was there, we sat down with the Board of Directors for the Y and they expressed their concerns, we explained what our project is. They have concerns, let me point out what we are doing now we have been doing for twenty-seven years and they have survived and even expanded. We are trying to get ours under one roof now instead of 265 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 using the School and using the Nautilus Center and using the Activity Center. We are not going do anything different than we are doing right now except under a different location. Supervisor Stec-We have had the same swimming pools in Queensbury/Glens Falls since when I was a kid, it was the Y and the Elementary pool, if you look at the census data of 1970 for Queensbury and Glens Falls and compare today we have gotten a lot bigger. The only thing that I did not see in this presentation and you eluded to it and I have seen other things Harry who have you turned away? How many times have you had to cancel? Mrs. Connie Goedert Recreation Commission Member –We need a list of programs that the Rec. Dept. does. Supervisor Stec-It would be a shame if this gets inaccurately painted that this is bad for the YMCA brush. Recreation Commission Member-In 2002 fourteen programs were cancelled; eighteen programs were moved modified and or reduced due to scheduling conflicts. As you look through this fine presentation you notice that the outdoor facilities are really admirable in this community. You did not see too many indoor facilities and none that the community owns other than next door. Supervisor Stec-Which is already too small. Recreation Commission Member-So the guarantee for any indoor programs really doesn’t exist with this community center the guarantee will exist. Now, I have thought an awful lot about the question are we competing with anybody? Well, we definitely not trying to take anybody away from a different facility. But, if you look at the population of Queensbury give we an estimate of what the percentage of people you think in Queensbury belong to another facility are active I bet it is under ten percent. Our focus is not to serve that five or ten percent our focus is the other ninety to ninety five percent that need. I have been in health and fitness all my life you read any magazine today and what do you read about every newspaper what do you read about there is about two or three things you could do to improve your health and fitness and directly effect diseases, like heart disease and cancer and so on, exercise, nutrition and so on and yoga classes. So, in summary we need an indoor facility we need that indoor pool. Safety, the water safety that is taught to the kids and then for the use for all the other age groups there is a huge need for that in door pool. If you are going to build it build it the right way because five years later it is awful hard to go back in and add two lanes to a pool or to add anything else. So, if you are going to build it, build it the right way. Recreation Commission Member-When we visited Richfield, Connecticut that is one of the things they said they had to cut back on the lane pools that they did and they said don’t do that. They had scheduled for eight and did four. 266 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 Recreation Commission Member-Cooperstown said the same thing, don’t undersize your pool. The rest of it is just going to give this community the opportunity to offer all of its populations the programs that we should offer to our people. Recreation Commission Member-Just so the Town Board knows that the Queensbury Senior Citizens passed a resolution to develop a position paper that is in support of this facility. We have eight hundred dues paying members but there are six thousand of us in the community. Supervisor Stec-I believe that this is a matter of getting the information in peoples hands, informing the public, making sure that accurate information gets out there. Between now and July an informational effort and I think when you do that I think you will find that you are going to be successful. Recreation Commission Member-We appreciate the Town Board patience I know for the last few weeks some of the Town Boards people got a little impatient because they did not have these exact facts. We appreciate the meeting tonight and we appreciate your patience. Now, along with that patience you have to understand that it was only five or six weeks ago we thought we were buying the property and when we started to make some real decisions and so we could not give anybody any statistics or figures or final answers because we didn’t have them either. You think you were anxious, we were anxious as well. I think this is a great presentation and I appreciate the folks that worked so hard on this power point and now what I hope and again we are residents of this community I hope that we are all in this together. Hopefully we go forward with a united front saying we think this is best for this community, lets get it done. Councilman Strough-I have a few questions, the power point and Joe your presentation, both are very nice, very professional. Is there going to be a lounge area for parents for example waiting for kids in various programs? Mr. Fusco Recreation Commission Member-Noted there is an area. Councilman Strough-Is there going to be couches and seating? Director Hansen-It is all open hallways. Recreation Commission Member-When we visited some other facilities I ask them isn’t this wasted space, and they said they purposely made the hallways a little wider so the parents and the people waiting had a place to sit and look through a window and see what their kids were doing. Recreation Commission Member-Noted most sites visited had seating in the interior hallways and also by a lounge area near the front. 267 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 Councilman Strough-As a parent drop my kids off at a mat rat location, am I going to have to pay an entrance fee to use the lounge area? Recreation Commission Member-No. Councilman Strough-Also, with a number of people being chlorine or chemical sensitive are we going to have an o-zone injection system for this pool? Recreation Commission Member-I know that the engineers have worked on swimming pool design and we have an engineer working on it, to be honest I am not totally up to date on it, I just know it will be researched. Councilman Strough-I did bring up the geo thermo idea and is that going to add to the cost or is that already considered in the sixteen and a half million? Noted that the system is expensive up front but in the long run they will reduce the O&M. Recreation Commission Member-When we get closer to bidding then we will have a better idea of exactly what the costs are and we will have to make adjustments to the building, but I think the rec. commissions idea is that we are going to make some adjustments to the building to keep it within the sixteen and a half million dollar budget, that is the status of that project at this point. We have not brought our engineers in to the process yet these are conceptual drawings. We are using square foot dollar costs based on similar projects so all of those things we will get further identified as we get more into schematic design. This is really what we call concept design, so as we get more information we get better handle on costs and what can go into the building. Councilman Boor-Would it be safe to say that at the point that it goes to referendum the public will have an actual picture of what it will be? Recreation Commission Member-When it goes to referendum this is the level of information that we will have. Councilman Boor-My only fear would be that you vote on this and when it comes to flourishion it is half the size or it doesn’t have a lot of the accoutrements. Recreation Commission Member-Noted they have allowed for contingencies in the plan. Councilman Boor-It is reverse is my concern, lets say you go to the sixteen five but you only get half the building? Recreation Commission Member-What he is saying you can do that building and probably more for sixteen five. 268 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 Councilman Boor-I agree probably you have done the work but the reality sometimes is not the same. Recreation Commission Member-We have already cut our wish list down, this was a three-gym facility, we have cut three multi purpose rooms back … Supervisor Stec-Questioned expandability? Recreation Commission Member-Showed where expansion can happen in two areas. Recreation Commission Member-Noted that they have not set down with the Town Board to discuss to talk about, what are you think about here is this access road acceptable like this or are you going to want more direct access? Supervisor Stec-What I was thinking when I first glanced at that I like the access road if you could move it further to the south it would be nice if the access road could continue along that northern property line so that we could access exactly. Spoke on other ideas for the land in the future. The sixteen and a half is both hard and soft costs? Director Hansen-Yes. Councilman Boor-On your circular turn around I assume that a bus could be parked there and cars could also continue? Recreation Commission -Yes. Councilman Strough-We could expand on the access road idea I am assuming that we are going to have some kind of pedestrian access on the road if we do have a pedestrian access on this road coming from Haviland that could be tied into bicycle pedestrian plan along Haviland and maybe Meadowbrook so we could get a comprehensive network there on that side of town. I have been working on my side of town but this presents opportunities as well as tying this into a comprehensive bicycle and pedestrian program. Supervisor Stec-Spoke with Bill Lamy and Paul Dusek about easement on West Mountain and Corinth Road for the widening of that shoulder, that is one thing I told Bill Lamy is the long term vision here is anytime the County goes out and does any kind of road like Country Club or any of the County Road, Corinth, West Mountain that they should be looking long term. Today people are out there walking and pushing strollers and biking and you do need to design that. Our main arterial roads in the Town happen to be County Roads, there are a few exceptions where there is either State or Town but the County has the lion share of the big ones that you do worry about speed and traffic and mixing cars and pedestrians and bicyclist. I do agree with that and because we have the bike trail at the corner of Blind Rock Road and Country Club Road, I think one of the very first things that we should push the County to do once this comes to 269 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 flourision is to widen the shoulder on Blind Rock Road and Haviland Road so you are providing a much easier and safer access for bicyclist to get here from a bike trail system throughout the Town that is going to grow so this ought to be integrated with that. I think that is a really good idea. Recreation Commission Member-We thank you very much gentlemen for being here. Councilman Turner-The facility in Connecticut did they rent that out to anybody but their members? Recreation Commission Member-I think they did. Birthday parties etc. Director Hansen-A portion of the pool, meeting rooms. Councilman Turner-Any meets at the pool? Recreation Commission Member-They down sized their pool that was the problem. You have the opportunity with an eight lane pool to have meets. Councilman Turner-Can we hold a diving meet there? Recreation Commission Member-Yes. Councilman Turner-Would there be an elevated tower? Director Hansen-No. One meter. We do not want to get into three meters. Supervisor Stec-Anything else. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 216.2005 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Meeting. th Duly adopted this 26 day of April, 2005 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None 270 Special Town Board Meeting 04-26-2005 mtg. #20 Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury