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2005-05-18 SP MTG24 378 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG# 24 MAY 18, 2005 RES# 252 7:04 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN COUNSEL ROBERT HAFNER TOWN OFFICIALS DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, HARRY HANSEN RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBERS LLOYD MOTT JOSEPH FUSCO CONNIE GOEDERT CHARLES MAIN JACK LA BOMBARD (ABSENT) DOUG IRISH PAUL ETU PRESS POST STAR SUPERVISOR STEC-Opened meeting. In summary they have conducted the four scheduled meetings with the public in the four Wards. Councilman Strough and myself attended all four; every board member attended at least one. We are here tonight to try to figure out what direction does we think we want to head into. Thanked the Recreation Commission for all the work that has been done all the volunteer work that has been done to this point over the last three years. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Heard a lot of what the public said at the meetings, heard the negative comments mostly about the cost of the project. We are going to maintain our recommendation to the Town Board that you put it up for referendum at the stated cost with the project as it was planned noting this makes sense based on our research, based on the needs of the community. If we put off the project even a little bit a year or two or try to phase it in all we are going to do is delay what is necessary now or will be in the next year or two or five, six, seven, years down the road then it will be at a much higher cost. Even the people that were very vocally negative we heard two things. We heard the project isn’t all bad we just have a problem with the money. Also heard you made the point for the pool we don’t disagree you need a pool you probably need one now. We could build the pool, but it will not solve the other problem with the school. Our job is to advise you our job is provide for quality recreation for the Town of Queensbury. The advisement is to put it up for referendum and let the populist decide. Even if 379 nothing else it’s an outlay of small amount money to find out what the general populist thinks. SUPERVISOR STEC-You eluded to the cost of the special election. Darleen had run new calculations herself. If she ran one per Ward the cost would be fifty five hundred. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-There is a lot to be learned from a referendum and how the referendum sits out there. We get a better feel for what the entire community is thinking from a referendum rather than four meetings that drew three hundred to three hundred and fifty people. COUNCILMAN TURNER-What do you think of the silent majority that didn’t come out? I’m getting telephone calls that say no. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Would you agree that the majority of the people there were middle age and beyond there were very few young people? SUPERVISOR STEC-The school was the biggest turnout. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-The same people that passed that budget are going to be the people voting on our project because they have kids in school. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Disagrees. From my experience with talking with people and not about this project specifically, but the school budget people vote on it and they vote yes the people that support it. The people that vote yes and don’t support it are saying to themselves they have to vote yes anyways because it’s going to pass or go back to a different budget. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-I never voted yes on something I disagree with. COUNCILMAN BREWER-A lot of people don’t vote on the school budget or vote yes because they know it’s going to pass anyways because they know they can’t stop it. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-You are only hearing from a small number of people. I don’t think as an elected official, I would base my opinion on whether or not to let the rest of the Town vote on this on less than five percent of the people that normally turn out for an election. Originally when we thought about this project we came to the Town Board sat down with and said, we don’t want to spin our wheels we don’t want to waste everybody’s time do you think this sounds like a viable project? That board said yes we think it’s a good idea why don’t you move forward, but keep us in the loop. We did that it was a five nothing vote to hire a consultant. It was a five nothing vote to purchase the land for the project. It was a five nothing vote to put JMZ on retainer for the project. We’ve spent about a hundred thousand dollars thinks it behooves the Town Board to let this go to referendum for five thousand dollars and learn whether we did a good job in what we’re presenting. I don’t know that as a taxpayer in the Town that I would want to know that we spent a hundred thousand dollars and then somebody decided because its election year they don’t want to put this up for referendum. You owe it to the rest of the taxpayers in the Town to let them vote on this. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-What would be more democratic then letting the people decide what they want to do about this project? 380 COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would agree. I think as everyone has said the timing. I say you promote it more and do it in November. DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-If you put it in November it becomes a real political issue. You want to get it away from the politics it makes it or breaks it on the merits of the project. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-We have created a political football with the rec center, which should have never gotten to that point this should be a purely civic function. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Spoke as member of Town Board during Indian Ridge as we look at Indian Ridge its built today. There were a lot more people there with negatives votes for those meetings than there were at our rec meetings. You have to look at seventeen thousand voters wouldn’t that be nice if we got seventeen thousand voters at every election. Even if we only get six thousand voters out for the election that’s more than the minimal amount of people that we heard from at these few meetings. You are talking about the hundred thousand dollars we’ve already spent. We’re talking about saving five thousand dollars for the public to have its say all of the public whether positive or negative. That to me is an easy decision and should be for you open government is the best thing to win an election on. ATTORNEY HAFNER-You don’t have the right to put all of the decisions that you make to the public. There are certain categories of decisions that you can put to public vote, but the only way they get there is if the Town Board affirmably says, yes we support this we take this action to do this project. Our vote to say yes we do this project is now going to go to the public vote to see what they do. COUNCILMAN BOOR-We are not voting to send to referendum. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-We can put all the spin we want to put on that. COUNCILMAN BOOR-It is not spin not if you are representing your constituents and that’s my job. If the overwhelming majority of my constituents say we don’t want this. My responsibility is to represent them not my desire to give them the choice. Told you when I resigned this commission that it was going to fast and I didn’t think the public was up to speed and I still don’t think the public’s up to speed you have to sell this thing. ATTORNEY HAFNER-There are opinions of the State that say Town Board members are elected to make decisions on behalf of the Town. They can’t put their decisions to the public vote. There are certain categories of decisions that after they make them they can put them on there. You can remember every special district extension you did was subject to permissive referendum. Every bond resolution that exceeded a certain amount is subject to permissive referendum. Those categories of things that you can put to public vote have to be specifically listed in the law. The Town Board asked us if they decided to go forward with that they wanted to structure this in a way that if they could vote yes that they would then be able to put it to the public vote. The way we were able to structure this is twofold. The bond resolution, if you are bonding for more than five years that is subject to permissive referendum. The Town Board can affirmably say we are going to put that to a mandatory vote. For a project of sixteen and a half million dollars a thirty-year bond that is an easy one that’s a box we can fit it in. The 381 second is because it’s a recreation project where you are building a type of thing we are also authorizing that project they can affirmably put that to referendum. They can’t put the non-binding whether they want to set up something where you let people put something on the website those things don’t have any affect. SUPERVISOR STEC-There would be two resolutions the first of which requires a super majority. ATTORNEY HAFNER-The two resolutions are first the bond resolution. I almost always do the bond resolution second. You authorize the project and you authorize the financing. In this case, I was going to do it in reverse because a bond resolution requires four votes. It has to be at least two thirds of a full board it has to have four votes. If they don’t get four votes they could have a 3-2 vote it is not effective for the Town be able to borrow money. I put that first because if you don’t get through that one then there is no sense in having the second one. Any referendum you have has to require both to pass. The second resolution is authorizing the project, which is building this type of facility. We talked with Harry and our definition of what the project was it doesn’t have all the details its more general. It’s the pool and such other recreational facilities and office facilities that relate to that. One of the things that we talked about with Harry and we made clear to you that if you pass the bond resolution if it goes over you haven’t authorized the money you don’t have authority to spend it. If you have to the ability that if the bids come to high that you can downgrade the project to fit within your authority to spend. COUNCILMAN BOOR-That’s an important point that’s where I was going, what I’m trying to say here you are going to fast. Asked what they will do if it requires more money why haven’t you told the public this is what we will cut back? DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-How do you know what the bid is going to come in at? COUNCILMAN BOOR-Asked why this hasn’t been presented to the public? RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-That has nothing to do with the project until…. COUNCILMAN BOOR-This is what we’re hearing. You haven’t satisfied the public’s need for information that’s the problem. You are not listening to what is being said. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-We listened to you. We listened to the Attorney we knew what he said we heard it February. Ted asked a good question what do we think about the silent majority. As a majority we worked hard on this we think it’s a great plan for the future of this community. We don’t think its too much in cost for the average homeowner seven to eight dollars a month. The people that, I hear from are the people that run the programs. That space isn’t going to be there anymore. I think that’s where the silent majority is going to come from to support this project. The parents that have had their kids turned away from so many programs like the swim programs at every level. The vocal people in those meetings you are not talking about the silent majority you are talking about the very vocal minority in my estimation there is one way to find out is to go to referendum. Believes the silent majority that will support this project is out there would like to see it go to referendum it’s a need. Where are these programs that are in the high school right now where are they going to go when the school says we can’t host them anymore? 382 COUNCILMAN BREWER-Has there been a time frame from the school verifying that? RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-The head of Building and Grounds are saying two things. We can’t squeeze them in anymore. The overuse of the facility is getting to be a concern we have to start saying no to the community programs because of the overuse factors. Asked the school in five years where are you going to be? He said in five years from now we are really going to struggle to be able to do what we are doing now. Asked the YMCA if they could take these programs over they said no, and anybody else that had a facility they can’t do it. COUNCILMAN BOOR-You know how much respect I have for everyone of you. I’ve seen how much work you’ve put into it and that’s why I don’t understand. You have all of the contacts, all the support staff, all the parents, and you call them the silent majority. Why aren’t you on the phone saying it’s so important you know the stress on this school this is the make or break thing that can put this thing through. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBERS –We’ve called, emailed, sent letters. SUPERVISOR STEC-Back when we met in February, I have always felt that a project of this magnitude would have to have a broad support from Town Board members. I said then and many times you have got to get the positive feedback. Most of the correspondence I got was in the form of emails, maybe an occasional phone call or letter. You need to demonstrate to the Town Board that there is broad support. Doesn’t think the silent majority is so big that you will go from eighty opposed to forty-nine opposed just by putting it out. I understand what you are saying we are not going to know unless you put that through a referendum, but we said we needed to see a demonstration of support. I’m not saying that its not needed, but if the public doesn’t want to support something we need to be responsive to that. I respect the work that every single one of you have done here I don’t doubt your sincerity; I don’t doubt your conclusion. The simple fact of the matter is, is that we’re talking about a large amount of money, I don’t think that anyone on the Town Board wants to look unresponsive to the public. COUNCILMAN BOOR-It’s not like we’re taking money that’s in an account and we’re going to spend it on something. We’re talking about going into debt for thirty years that is a serious thing to consider. It’s an important issue, big issue; I’m not going to look like I’m ignoring my voters. If, I get an overwhelming number of people that say they don’t want this I’m not going to support it. That doesn’t mean I won’t support it eventually. DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-We heard from three hundred people at this meeting. There are seventeen thousand voters in this community; three hundred is less than two percent of the eligible voters. How can you base a decision on three hundred people? If we each got a hundred phone calls that’s a thousand that’s under five percent of the eligible voters. COUNCILMAN BOOR-That tells me there is no interest at all. DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-You say we have to represent our constituency don’t we have minds of our own that we decide whether it’s a good project or bad? If you are saying it’s a bad project then vote that way. If you are saying it’s a good project then vote for it. 383 COUNCILMAN BOOR-I am going to represent my constituents. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-I was in the school business for thirty- two years. Every year we had to try to pass a budget and every year we had an annual meeting. Twenty-five, thirty, fifty at the most half of the people in the audience were administers or the rest of us who worked at the school. The other half was mostly negative comments. In thirty-two years all the Superintendents and Board of Educations I worked for never figured out how to get those positive people out to be vocal. In thirty two years, I went through three budgets defeats that’s why I have a strong feeling that the people in Queensbury when they get a chance to vote if you would give them a chance to vote would come out and rally and support this project. COUNCILMAN BOOR-You are not giving the public enough time to digest. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-The public has known we were going to put a recreation center to them since the ACC issue, which is over two and a half years ago so they’ve know this and been waiting for it. COUNCILMAN BOOR-The cost and the location and what’s going to be in it has been within the last two months. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-The cost is the issue of bad timing. COUNCILMAN BOOR-If you believe the premise that timing is everything then why don’t you use that to your advantage. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Because there are only three hundred people saying that. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-If we put this off for X number of months it easily could be one point two, one point three millions dollars more. COUNCILMAN BOOR-You may not get the yes vote you are putting it all on the line. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-There are a couple options. One would be to have you guys vote to put it to referendum then the public decides. Two would be to delay it to the November vote you are saying you prefer some kind of delay whether it’s November or next year. COUNCILMAN BOOR-It gives you guy’s time so we can get the yes calls. So I can say to my constituents as a matter of fact its at least fifty fifty so I do feel its appropriate to put it to referendum. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-What’s going to change the peoples minds? COUNCILMAN BOOR-Your guy’s doing a good job out there in public. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-I want to know what we have to do because I’m not so sure we haven’t already done it? COUNCILMAN BOOR-You have got to get this silent majority you are talking about to call us. 384 RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-At the political level how do you guys get the silent majority out? COUNCILMAN BOOR-We give them enough information where they are comfortable with what we are proposing. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-We haven’t given the public any information. COUNCILMAN BOOR-You haven’t given them one alternative. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Now we are talking about options. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-There is a trade off if we delay the project its going to be another million, million and a half something like that. I don’t have a problem with delaying except its going to raise the cost is that okay with your taxpayers in your district? COUNCILMAN BOOR-I can’t answer that. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-The only ones that can answer that are the voters. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Bob made an excellent point in saying that the Town Board by voting yes or no shows their support or their non-support. What you are trying to do is get the public’s support by us going out and beating the bushes so that you can make a decision. That’s just as wrong as what I said when you can vote in favor of it by not supporting it just so it could go to a vote. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I made it pretty clear; I’m not comfortable with what you are proposing how about something that can be expanded? RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-When you are talking about a pool all you are saving is you are cutting two gyms. DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-If you are going to do the pool you need to do the locker rooms. If you are going to the pools and the locker rooms you need to do the gyms. The locker room serves both of those facilities. If you want to put an administrative building in there and move it out of this facility so we free up some more space. Now you are looking at maybe something less sixteen million, but certainly not anywhere near half the price or even two thirds of the price. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Disappointing when everybody was talking about a thirteen million dollar building, I told Dan it would be a seventeen million dollars building Tim sat there and said we’re going to hold you to that nobody raised any issue with this until January, February this year. At one point the Town Board was considering supporting a million dollar buy for Valente property down the road. RECREATION COMMSSION MEMBER-We haven’t heard from the parents of the Spartan Hooper’s, swim programs, middle age adults that are using the gymnasiums, the senior citizens. The senior citizens can gain the Activity Center for their use they’ve been waiting on this decision because they were talking about building a new building themselves. 385 COUNCILMAN BREWER-Doesn’t think that’s a fair statement. They’ve been talking about Schermerhorn building the building and getting the money to pay for it from the Town. SUPERVISOR STEC-The money from the Town was for staffing not construction. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-My point is a support group. If they feel this is going to open the facility for them I think we are going to gain a lot of yes voters from that group. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Does that really give you a basis for saying it’s a good project? RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Yes, I do because we said it’s a Community Center and they are part of the community. The senior citizens are a large voting block in this community. I’ve talked to some pretty knowledgeable people on this topic this group of folks could be very influential in this decision. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Don’t think it isn’t realized so don’t think there is a risk when people take a stand early. We’re aware of what’s going on I know the risk, I’m doing what I think is in the best interest of my constituents. RECREATION COMMISISON MEMBER-If you vote this goes to referendum we know we have to hustle between now and July we’re confident we can do it. We have to get the accurate figures out we think they are already accurate, they have to be more detailed. We have to really hit these positive voters that’s our plan that’s phase two of our selling job. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-For fifty five hundred dollars should we put it to a referendum, yeah. Do, I think it’s going to pass; I have my reservation from what I heard at the meetings and everything else. If, I were on the Parks and Recreation Commission I would be advocating saying, let’s drop it down to the swimming pool lets get our foot in the door then lets add to it. Let’s get it down to something where just about every voter is going to be in back of it. Three hundred people at the meeting over two hundred were dead set against this project. Am, I going to vote yes on a referendum? I said, I would, I will, I still will, I’ll stick to that. Do, I have my reservations about it passing giving the package giving the feeling of the community? Yes, I have my reservations about it. Do, I support the idea? Yes, I do you know I do. Do, I think we would have a better chance of getting more community support if we downsized it to the pool got it to about nine million dollars and then put it before the voters? Yes, I think you would have an overwhelming support for the project. Then once we got our foot in the door we have the Community Center established can we add two gyms a couple years from now, yeah let it build out as we go. SUPERVISOR STEC-The cost of the referendum is not the issue. I think John hit on the issue, too. If we put it out to referendum and it passed by one vote certainly we would build it. In my opinion on how this should be going that would be a failure of the project. We should be tonight at the point where everyone at the table believes that no question this is going to pass. There is a ground swell of support everyone in the public seems to like this project, but we are going to validate it with a referendum so that we don’t have the twenty, twenty five percent for the next thirty years saying we had that stuffed down our throat. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-I do support the idea, I think it will be a great enhancement to our community, yes I will vote yes on the referendum. If this gets 386 shot down bad it will be long time before the wounds heal before we can get back to square one. If we could get this to the swimming pool get this to nine million and get it out to the voters I think it would pass. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-We have discussed all of these things, doesn’t disagree. The issue is when we look back at why did we do this in the first place; first of all it was the public that asked us to do it. Two the need is there. If we delay it, it delays the implementation of programs or the establishment of programs and more people will get cut out, the need will be greater. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-How long would it be delayed if you went back for the pools and the locker rooms? DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-You would have to do the whole contract they agreed to do a contract to design the whole facility. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Compared to sixteen and a half million dollars is this a big issue? TOWN COUNSEL, HAFNER-Their contract was very large. COUNCILMAN STROUGH- How much for the swimming pool? We can cut back on the parking and the ground raiding we can probably get this done for nine million; I think you’ve got a project that is going to fly with a lot of public support. RECREATION COMMISISON MEMBER-I understand where you are coming from in order to get the concept of a phase building in. We talked about it, what we went to the consultant and the architect with was what we deemed necessary for the Town to provide the program that we already have. Leaving some at the school, but being able to accommodate some bigger sizes. We asked the architect and consultant to develop a program in a building size that would accommodate what we have and what we projected through our studies and our surveys as future growth. I think you would be further ahead with not building anything than to build just the pool. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-What if it gets shot down eight to twenty you will not be able to come back not easily with another project not in five years until that wound heals. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-You are talking about what will pass we’re talking about what we need. COUNCILMAN BOOR- What about what the public wants. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-I know what you are saying and I agree with you, but I’m also saying you are going to more likely get passage of this bill if you got it down to what you needed for right now at a minimal cost for right now and added to it later. Everything that you want maybe even a shorter time span than what we believe, I think that the public isn’t ready for it right now. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Fifty five hundred dollars is not an issue with me. I’m thinking we had four meetings in two weeks you can have an election anytime you want if you are going to do it in a special election. 387 DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-We are trying to get the six-month construction period. It is going to take six months to design and put out to bid. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Would you rather have to referendum and have it fail? DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-July works for December and January. If July is not the Boards choice I think the Commission would probably look at another year. The best time is not to bid this in April or May because contractors have jobs. COUNCILMAN BREWER-If you took another month whatever it took, two months and went out and promoted it then you got that support from the silent majority help them come out and help you promote it. You would have a better chance of it passing doesn’t think it will pass right now the timing is killing you right now. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Do you think if we waited a year that the people that are negative now will positive in a year? COUNCILMAN BREWER-You have worked long and hard and I agree a hundred percent with that. I think it needs more time for people to digest it to understand what it is. The feedback I’m getting and I don’t care if it’s political or not is its negative. I’m sorry to say that because I think it’s a wonderful project. SUPERVISOR STEC-In order for it to be successful the physical construction needs to be different smaller. COUNCILMAN TURNER-It has to come down it has to be smaller. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-If we knock it down to a five million dollar project we will still have eight hundred no votes. This happens all the time the minority, which is the loud majority is being heard. We have to represent all of the Town of Queensbury and we’re not doing that unless we take it to referendum. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-What do we need to do? COUNCILMAN BOOR-Be responsive to the questions when they are asked. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Some of those questions were ridiculous. COUNCILMAN BOOR-When the reasonable people have an issue and they have a problem you need to say, I hear you, and I will get back to you, we will talk about this to see if we can adapt this, there was none of that. This was all a presentation of information there was never a feeling that you were going to take the comments and alter what you were proposing based on what the public was saying. It was all one sided and it came across that way. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-We heard it’s too expensive. Reval and taxes are killing me. We can’t afford to live in Queensbury anymore we’re going to move out. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I heard a lot of people say we think we need a pool we don’t think we need the gymnasium. 388 RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-That doesn’t mean the need isn’t there the need is there talk to these guys. COUNCILMAN BOOR-That’s their need and the people that they serve, but it might not be the people who are paying the bill. SUPERVISOR STEC-Is there any members of the public that would like to ask any questions or comments? KEVIN O’CONNOR, AMETHYST DRIVE, QUEENSBURY-In essence you have been speaking about me at this meeting. I am a piece of the silent majority that you have been talking about. In reference to those meetings, I attended one; I wanted to attend all four. There are many people that would have loved to be at those meetings, but they couldn’t they had some pressing needs. I don’t like the fact my taxes have been going up every year and it’s not just the reval. When I hear people cavalierly say, you are talking about less than a hundred dollars here for the rec center. I’m adding that hundred dollars to the thousand you already jacked me up. To the hundreds you jacked me up previous to that. Then you are telling me if I want to use that you are going to charge me in essence of two hundred and fifty to three hundred and fifty dollars for my family to use this recreation center. The fact is the majority of the population is not going to use this. I speak as a parent who has a twelve year old, nine year old, and a three and a half year old we do avail ourselves to the service I do commend you for what you have in this community. We came from Rockland just outside of New York City twelve years ago. What you have is phenomenal what you have done in this community how you provide for our kids with the ballparks you need to be commended for that. I have to say there comes a point when we have to look at things and say enough. You keep saying that this is a need this is a want. A need was spoken about when you speak about the schools. You are not comparing the same things. When you compare a school budget let’s use a comparable to prescription drugs for your kids. You are telling me do you want to spend two hundred dollars on this drug for your child or do you want to keep the money in your own project. That is what you are doing in essence with schools. You are saying do you want to provide quality education for your children, quality teachers, quality programs, technology and such, the infrastructure to raise those children to go into the community and be better citizens. Most of those people are going to yes. I don’t like the fact I’m paying thousands for my school, but I do balance it against what I’m getting for it. I need money in my pocket I have to start saving for my children. Every time you reach into my pocket you are taking money away from me and my family and their future. This is a wonderful project I challenge you to find one person that says they would not like this recreation center. It is not going to happen. What you are going to have a big problem with is how you are going to pay for it. One of the most telling things that struck me at those meetings was how many communities have these. The night, I was there was two, and one of them wasn’t even in New York State. The second thing is when we look at the cost of these things this is our next school. The numbers you did bring out is we’re talking about fifty-five students a year coming into this district. We have better start planning smart in this community. We have better start bringing quality jobs, quality businesses in there. We have better start looking at what our structure is for our building and such so that we don’t tax our school system. When we are brining in apartments and such we’re bringing in children we are bringing in a stress on those schools we are going to need classrooms and teachers. I will tell you as a citizen who is not independently wealthy that I have spoken to neighbors, co-workers, I have not met one person in my age group or younger I haven’t met one who is positive about this. I called Dr. Howard noting that there is a lot of information going forth about the Queensbury Schools. I think you should have a 389 representative at these meetings in order to give us an idea of how many years we’re talking about. He stated if it was his call he would recommend we build this because of the stress on the schools. He said there is nothing immediate it is not critical mass. It is certainly something we have to look at and plan for. He went on to say that there are other school districts and communities that have worked on joint projects together. There are things we can do as a community. I will tell you that I am that silent majority. If you bring this out to a public referendum it is going to fail. I would challenge that anyone sitting here we’re looking at the conservative northeast and when I voted Republican and I have people spending like Democrats its telling me its time for change. This is too big, it is not just the fact that it hit with the revals and everything it is time to say enough. My Councilman has never heard from me. I’ve never called him, never e-mailed him. This is the first time we ever met besides him knocking on my door at election asking for my vote. This is a wonderful Town, but I’m one of those people that are starting to ask myself do I have to reconsider where I’m going to live. If my taxes are cranking up at this rate I can’t afford to live in Queensbury. You are going to have to start planning for business for industry up here. We should be buying that million dollars and buying a block of land to give to somebody to bring up high- tech jobs. If you want to present something to me present the plan. Second one on my list is the Library we need to fix the library. Third thing you can think of doing something like this. You need to sell to the people that we are responsible with your tax dollars. SUPERVISOR STEC-I’m not hearing anything close to four votes from the Town Board. The agenda that I’m going to prepare for Monday I’m not going to include resolutions to do this unless I hear four guys tell me. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-You got to at least vote it up or down how does that serve the public by avoiding… COUNCILMAN BOOR-I don’t have a problem doing that. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would like to put this to referendum, but I don’t think I want to put it to referendum in July. RECREATION COMMISSON MEMBER-If that’s the case and we go back as a Commission maybe we would cut it back a little bit, spend a little more time educating the public. Is the Town Board going to be okay when we say we cut it back a million but the inflation and bidding process is going to add two million so we’re not looking at sixteen five we’re looking at seventeen, eighteen million dollars? COUNCILMAN BOOR-Something like this I think really requires a mandate from the public because you are incurring debt. To do something like this I want to know that they want this thing. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-People were positive about this project until there was talk about implementing a property tax. COUNCILMAN BREWER-We had to equate it to something how much it is going to cost somebody. It doesn’t matter if it County, City, Town, Federal, Village, State, it’s something they have to pay. COUNCILMAN TURNER-It’s the volume of money to have to pay out at tax time. 390 SUPERVISOR STEC-I’m not going to put it on the agenda on Monday. You know that it’s the same as not taking any action it’s the same as voting it down. COUNCILMAN BREWER-We have to tell them what we want done. SUPERVISOR STEC-You are not going to referendum in July. It’s an outside chance you are going to referendum this year from what I’ve heard from both Town Board members and from you. I think we are talking about next year so we have time. The public is aware now, I think between that and the physical plan. I think a more likely result of a successful referendum is if you get that ground swell of support would be to say you know what we’re going to look at what we’re asking for here, do we need everything that we laid out in the sixteen and a half million. I heard a lot of people say; we believe a third pool is needed. I think the general public also understands it is not going to be nautilus or racquet club that is going to build an indoor pool. Who builds indoor pools YMCA’s, School Districts and Municipalities; I think the public would support a pool. I think you need to go back and work on that I think it is probably going to carry into two thousand six. Then we will be right back to it with a project that with another year further along with inflation it will be more expensive today, but you know what you are not going to build anything if the public doesn’t vote it in. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-They are not getting a chance to vote it in. SUPERVISOR STEC-I don’t think the public would vote it in. RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBER-Is this gentleman going to change his mind two years down the road? MR. O’CONNOR-I might. You know what I want to hear from this community responsible planning. In Warren County we have grown seventy five percent of the population is coming to this Town. We need to start planning for jobs, business, and infrastructure for that. We need to start planning for the houses what we’re going to be building here. We need to start looking at the plan if the rec center is part of the plan, yes. You might very well find that two years from now I will come back and say it’s great because we have everything lined up here and we can afford it and its not going to reach into my pocket with any great stress. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 252, 2005 INTRODUCED BY: MR. JOHN STROUGH WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. TIM BREWER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. th Duly adopted this 18 day of May, 2005, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec Noes: None 391 Absent:None No further action taken. Respectfully Submitted, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury