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2004-08-02 SP MTG33 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 95 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #33 AUGUST 2, 2004 RES. 386-388 4:30 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER-Absent TOWN OFFICIALS Members of the Planning Board Members of the Zoning Board Chairman Lewis Stone Chairman Craig MacEwan Glens Falls Post Star SUPERVISOR STEC-Opened the Meeting 4:37 p.m. 1.0 Meeting with three members of the Town Planning Board and Zoning Board and staff to discuss composition, mission and goals of a “Planning Issues Recommendations Committee” Supervisor Stec-The Planning Board expressed to the Town Board several weeks ago some concerns surrounding the Planning and Zoning Issues in the Town and requested that the Board consider a moratorium. At the time we had a joint meeting of the Planning Board and Town Board we discussed many issues and the Town Board was hesitant to go forward with a moratorium but recognize the concerns and issues and we wanted to start to address them. Since then Chris Round has announced that he is going on to greener pastures, he will be going to the private sector and in fact has started his terminal vacation, so Friday was he last actual work day. We have made a little bit of progress on some of the items that were brought up to the Town Board attention. Specifically some of the wetlands delineation issues have been addressed, Karner Blue has moved forward and not on a time line that the Town controls, we have received a draft of the build out analysis tomorrow night we will meet with the School Board at Town Hall at 7:00 P.M. to have a presentation and accept the actual official report. We have not made progress in other areas, and I have partial list. There were concerns about affordable housing, subdivision regulations and some others. We have a 1998 Comprehensive Land Use Plan the one before that was 1988, ten years between the plans is not a good idea. We have SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 96 identified the need to try to stay ahead of the curve. We need to keep moving to stay ahead of the curve. Chris recommended to me that I contact Lou Stone the Chairman of the Zoning Board and Craig MacEwan the Chairman of the Planning Board and invite Lou and Craig and two of their members to a meeting with me and I suggest that I also invite the Town Board, that is why we are here now. The two Zoning Board Members whose names were provided to me was Leo Rigby and Roy Urrico and the two Planning Board names provided to me were Chris Hunsinger and Gretchen Steffan. It is my opinion to move the process forward, that most of the concerns that are most immediate nature identified by the Planning Board. I do not believe in bringing a problem with out a suggested solution. The Planning Board has a lot of expertise, they are a selected cross section of current and past town boards that has a certain level of working knowledge in the area of our zoning codes and the knowledge of what the issues have been in the past, the Zoning Board in a similar way with the Zoning Code. The Planning Board to take the lead on this committee have the Planning Board use agenda control and two meetings a month to go over site plan because we will dedicate a third meeting as a workshop to work on these sorts of issues. To come with specific recommendations to the Town Board for action. Suggested a Super Planning Board Plus which would be all the Members of the Planning Board and then other members from the public other members from staff other members from the Zoning Board. Chris suggested get the three members of the Zoning and Planning Board together in a room and figure out what the right way to go would be. We have a fair representation of the players that are familiar with the administrative side of things in the room. Now, what I would suggest that we consider the six of you along with the Town Board and staff today try to accomplish a couple of things. What do we what want for composition of this group, do we want the whole Planning Board and a hand full of members of the Zoning Board and certain number from the public? I think once we figure out how many members from the public we would like involved, the Town Board would interview for those positions. My opinion is if you get much higher than the mid teens on a group like this it will become unmanageable. I would like today to get a membership idea, come up with a goal. I think the goal ultimately would be that we would look at the Comprehensive Land Use Plan, or issues of the Planning Board also need when and how often this committee would meet and how to report to the Town Board. I would suggest at a minimum you would meet once a month they would be open meetings and open to the public. I do not think the Town Board should be members of the committee but I think they should attend these meetings. We are looking for a composition, a starting point, how frequently this group will meet and what we are looking for by way of report, a periodic written report, and at some point a workshop with the Town Board to discuss specific recommendations. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 97 Chairman Stone-You talked about the ZBA and Planning Board Members and the public, I would offer that we on the Zoning Board and the Planning Board are members of the public. Supervisor Stec-My personnel feeling it would not bother me if this was a group entirely made up of Planning and Zoning Board Members, I am not sure that would have unanimous buy in with the public or the Town Board. Chairman MacEwan-I think it is better to keep it in house with members made up of the Planning Board and ZBA we are the ones that use the ordinances on a daily basis we know the SEQRA laws and we know what the issues are. Whatever the make up of the committee is you give them a couple of months to get the ball rolling come up with ideas in a draft session and maybe have a public comment night. Supervisor Stec-Noted that this will be a very public process. Chairman Stone-Noted concern; The Zoning Code needs an editing, tweaking,…that is a separate issue but needs to be done. Unknown-We are members of the public and I think if you try to involve specific individuals outside of the three boards you run the risk of somebody saying why not me. If it is an open process, open public meetings and specific scheduled public comment meetings I think that accomplishes the public participation. Councilman Boor-Anything that comes out of this group would it be safe to say that it would be editing of the Comprehensive Land Use Plan? Lou has said there is language in the Zoning Code that he would like to see addressed but, would there be anything that this group would arrive at decision wise, change wise, that wouldn’t be something that would effect the Comprehensive Land Use Plan, isn’t this a start? I think your prioritizing issues that need addressing right now, you are going to address it in its entirety but in fact you are taking what exists now and you are changing some things that are really bad. Supervisor Stec-I think we would be criticized if we fell into the trap where we said your mission is to go and come back with a brand new Comprehensive Land Use Plan. Councilman Boor-It is a living document as far as I am concerned and this is addressing the egregious shortcomings of that current Comprehensive Land Use Plan. Chairman Stone-Noted that the Town has moved so much faster than anybody anticipated, it is a matter of recognizing what has been going on in our community and in the neighboring communities in SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 98 terms of build out all of these things, as good a job as was done, it is just inadequate in light of what is going on today. Councilman Boor-I am saying that some things have really gone by the way side and need to be addressed. Unknown-Noted he sees issues with some of the slopes that we have in the town being able to build on some of those slopes and maybe looking at some of the density being changed. I am concerned with some areas of the Town where we are starting to see development encroaching on areas that I think are less than developable as far as wetlands, not necessarily a flagged wetland. We just know these lands have historical problems with them. One of the aspects is changing the density on those so you cannot build them to the maximum. Supervisor Stec-One of the more urgent areas is the subdivision regulations … Chairman Stone-Conservation Subdivisions, conservation easement where you use the same density but use smaller lots and make people save half the land… Supervisor Stec-RE: Membership (number, who) Chairman Stone-I did suggest at the Supervisor’s request I suggested two people. I suggested Chairman MacEwan and myself as people who are objective as anybody that I know in town we are not builders we are not looking to develop any land that I own and I think that is what we need. We need people that have no interest in any thing except trying to do a good job. The people on the Planning and Zoning Board that is our aim. Unknown-What is the position of the ZBA, is it the Planning Board plus three representatives from the Planning Board? Unknown-I am looking at it as a town issue rather than a board issue. The fact that we know the Zoning Code helps but I think there are issues that go beyond our purview. I think who ever is selected I think is important but I also think that there needs to be a clear channel to the public as well both ways input and output. So, they are aware of what is taking place. There has to be a good agenda and good feed back. Unknown-It is a good opportunity for the Zoning Board and Planning Board to work together, that is a plus that comes out of this. The size of the core group has to be small, a group that is manageable. Suggested that the head of the group could be both of the Chairmans… A good way to get public opinion would be to put something out on the table every couple of months to review and get their feed back. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 99 Unknown-I like the idea of having group process and keeping it internal I think based on the moratorium resolution that Bob Vollaro constructed it gives us a very good plan to use, the things that we need to look at and the order in which we need to look at them. Tomorrow we look at the build out analysis and then from there we have a very good source of data from where to move forward, then we can look at the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and Zoning Regulations and the things we have the most problem with. I certainly from my point of view being new and learning the guidelines I think it has to be an internal process. I like Craigs perspective on having public comment nights, like mile stones when we report out and then get feed back so we know we are in the right direction. I think Craig would be a good person to Chair the Committee and I would like to see the committee be no more than twelve people. Unknown-Questioned the Town Board’s role in this committee? Supervisor Stec-Because the Town Board will act on these recommendations, I am not sure there is a lot of wisdom in us recommending things to ourselves. I think we can be present but my personnel opinion, I do not think it is a good idea for the Board Members to be on this committee. Councilman Turner-I do not think so either…I think you should not say anything just sit there and listen, let these guys do the work then you criticize after if you don’t like what they say. Councilman Boor-I do not think that the Town Board should be active on it, but I certainly think if it starts to go in a direction that we know the Board cannot act on that we should say hey look. We should not be imputing in to the decision making but we should be there in case we feel it is not going to end up with a product that we can do anything with. Chairman Stone-Questions are always welcome. Councilman Strough-In reality you have a six member committee you are lucky to have three or four show up because of conflicts etc. Ten is not an unmanageable number, if you open it up to see who on the Zoning Board or the Planning Board is interested in being on here I think you might have to push to get five. Then if you did have a ten member committee you have your meeting you are going to be lucky to have six or seven there. There should be an open channel to the public if you met monthly on your agenda and new and old issues and a public hearing component to your meetings so if the public wants to say something at that time they would have at every meeting five minutes and just keep it open that way. Try for five from each board. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 100 Chairman Stone-Let me do a quick poll, you guys are here because you were invited would you be willing to serve…(by voice agreed) Unknown-If you have three dedicated people that you know are going to be there you are in great shape. Councilman Strough-I do not think you Chairman want to close out someone on your Board that would like to be part of the process. Chairman Stone-What if you had nine people on both boards that wanted to be,… Councilman Strough-Why don’t you feel out your boards and see how many members would be interested, start there. Supervisor Stec-I would agree with that and I would ask that if you would both go back to your boards and put it to them along those lines, are you willing and can you commit the time to do this, get an idea of how many that number would be. I would prefer to leave here with a number and tweak it from there. If we do leave here with a number I would like the two Chairmans to figure out who to put on there and let me know when your first meeting is going to be. Chairman Stone-The outside number is ten. Councilman Strough-Noted he would like to see their first meeting in September or sooner…I would like to see each board have three items that they are to bring to the first meeting. Supervisor Stec-Ten on the outside, each Board look for five, let me know who your members are and pick a date…make it know that all nine are welcome to participate, even though they are not members of the committee…might identify the remainder of those as alternates. Councilman Boor-Recommended to everyone on the committee is that you attend tomorrow nights meeting and any subsequent meetings relative to the build out analysis. That is something I do not think anybody at this table has a compete understanding of and it is going to impact very much so the recommendations that this committee should be making. Supervisor Stec-We will need the names of the members and alternates, a date of the first meeting, three issues from each of your two boards, and by the end of your first meeting a Chairman or Co- Chair a point of contact for the Town Board to lay hands on. Spoke about agenda control. We will make staff available, and when there are recommendations Town Counsel will be available for his input. Requested that the committee’s meetings be recorded and transcribed. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 101 Chairman Stone-This would be purely on a volunteer basis, this would not be a regular meeting there is no pay involved. Supervisor Stec-This is a volunteer committee. When can we get a list of names? Chairman Stone-I can give you three names right now. I will talk to the others. Supervisor Stec-A week from today. Chairman MacEwan-Requested time to see staff availability and meeting location. Supervisor Stec-I would like at the latest a workshop of your progress by our first workshop in mid October. Chairman MacEwan-Maybe Lou, the best way to take this I do not know what specific issue you got, the first meeting is an organizational meeting, we sift out what the big issues are. I am looking at the Zoning Ordinance, the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and the Subdivision Regulations, maybe what we do is take those by item. Go through what your issues are with the Zoning Ordinance our Planning Board issues with the Zoning Ordinance make recommendations to the Town Board and move onto the next topic. Supervisor Stec-I am comfortable with that. Councilman Boor-Will you guys be keeping your own boards up to speed on this, so that something does not get left out? Chairman MacEwan-Absolutely. Chairman Stone-Yes. Councilman Boor-Not all of them will be partaking in the committee meeting but if some of them have ideas, I would like to think that they would get them to you or they know that you are available. Councilman Stone-That is the most important thing is to make sure we are available for input. Supervisor Stec-Questioned those present, are we going in the right direction with this plan, speak now…no one spoke… Noted he would like to refer to this committee as the Super Planning Board. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 386.2004 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 102 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an Executive Session to discuss personnel issues. nd Duly adopted this 2 day of August, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 387.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns their Executive Session. nd Duly adopted this 2 day of August, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer (No action taken in Executive Session - Gretchen Steffan was present at the Executive Session) RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 388.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 103 RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. nd Duly adopted this 2 day of August, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury