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2013-02-13 Hrg.Roundabout TOWN OF QUEENSBURY HEARING ON AVIATION ROAD/DIXON ROAD/FARR LANE INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENT PROJECT February 13, 2013 7:00 p.m. Queensbury Activity Center TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR RONALD MONTESI-Absent COUNCILMAN ANTHONY METIVIER DEPUTY SUPERVISOR JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER-Absent TOWN OFFICIALS Deputy Highway Supt. Tom VanNess Senior Planner Stu Baker Representatives of Creighton Manning Stephan W. Godlewski PE Susan M Torelli PE Representative of R.K. Hite & Co. Inc. Jim Deloria Deputy Supervisor John Strough-There are just two members of the Town Board here tonight but we also have the Deputy Highway Superintendent Tom VanNess back there. I am going to introduce our Senior Planner and he is going to tell you a little bit more about it and what the next meeting is all about, ok. That is Stu Baker. Sr. Planner Stu Baker-Good evening, thank you all very much for coming this evening this is a great turn out for this project. I am going to limit my comments to this actually, I want to introduce Steve Godlewski of Creighton Manning Engineering who is leading the project team of the consultants and I will let him introduce the rest of the team and begin the presentation this evening. Steve Mr. Stephan W. Godlewski PE-Thanks Stu. As Stu said I am Steve Godlewski I am from Creighton Manning Engineering, we also have Sue Torelli she is the Project Engineer on the project in back we have Don Adams Sr. Project Manager and Design Supervisor and over by the door greeting everyone with the smiles Ken Davis he is the Assistant Project Engineer on the project. ... Bear with me I have a script here that I need to read. Thank you all for coming out this evening as announced by the Clerk it's the public hearing for the Aviation Road, Dixon Road, Farr Lane intersection improvement project located in the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York. The purpose of this public hearing is to meet the legal requirements of Article II of the Eminent Domain Procedure Laws. Notice of the Public Hearing was published in the Post Star for five consecutive days beginning on January 21St 2013. A copy of the notice of public hearing was sent to the assessment record billing owners potentially impacted by the proposed public project. As stated in the notice there are several purposes of tonight's hearing. One, provide information on the proposed project background and the evolution. Two, explain and describe the public use benefits and purpose to be served by the intersection improvement project. Three, describe the location or geographic perimeters of the proposed project and explain the reasons for the selection and the location. Four, discuss the general effect of the proposed project on the environment and on the residents of the Town of Queensbury. Five, identify the property interests the town will need to acquire in order to accomplish the project and Six, accepting and consider public comments on the proposed project. The oral statement made during tonight's session will be recorded by the Town Clerk. Additionally various documents have been made available for public inspection. These documents have been pre-marked as exhibits and will be incorporated into the record of this hearing. Following tonight's session members of the public are invited to submit written comments or other documents relating to the proposed project. These written comments and documents should be addressed to Stewart Baker, Town of Queensbury, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury, New York 12804. These written comments and documents will be included as part of the record of this hearing. As soon as possible after tonight's session, copies of the transcript of this hearing and the hearing exhibits will be made available to the public for examination without cost during normal business hours at the Queensbury Town Office, at the Crandall Public Library in downtown, Glens Falls. Any person who would like to examine these records should contact Stu Baker with the Town. At some point within ninety days after the record of this hearing is complete, the entire record will be delivered to the Town of Queensbury, Town Board for consideration and further action. That further action will occur in the form of the Town Board rendering it's determination and findings concerning this proposed public project. A brief synopsis of the Town Board's determination and findings will be published in appropriate newspapers and mailed to assessment record billing owners. There are several exhibits that are going to be incorporated into the record of this proceeding. The exhibits are made a part of the record and the transcript and will be made available for public review. In addition to the exhibits that have been pre-marked and entered into the hearing recording this evening, all written public comment submissions will be entered into the hearing record as exhibit ten collectively. The notice of tonight's public hearing was published in the Post Star and that notice along with the affidavit of publication have been pre-marked as exhibit one and two. In addition to publishing the notice of this hearing in the newspaper the Town mailed notices to each of the assessment record billing owners. Letter notices along with copies of certified mailing and return receipt documents have been pre-marked as exhibit three through six. The affidavit of mailing for the letter notice has been pre-marked as exhibit seven. Also available tonight for public inspection is the copy of the design report prepared by Creighton Manning Engineer who was retained by the Town to design and oversee this project. It includes many of the technical details relating to the project including the scope and evolution, alternatives, environmental, historical and social matters that were considered. The design report has been pre-marked as exhibit eight. A power point presentation has been prepared for tonight's public hearing. The presentation contains technical information on the project corridor; copies of the slides from the presentation have been collectively pre-marked as exhibit nine. At this time I would request that all pre-marked exhibit be admitted into the record of these proceedings. The preferred design alternative of the project involves the acquisition of private property. The Town is required to follow a specific process to acquire the property rights necessary for the construction of the project. The technical portion of the hearing will include an explanation of the property acquisition process. At the conclusion of the technical presentation we will open the floor for public comments. As you entered the auditorium this evening there was a sign in sheet, on the sign in sheet we asked you indicate whether or not you wished to provide oral comments this evening. The Town will also accept written comments and documents related to this project tonight and by mail before February 23rd. 2013. Now we can start the design presentation, finally. Thank you for bearing with me on that it is just part of the proceeding that we need to go through just to make sure we dot all of our is and cross all of our tees. This is just a brief agenda of what we are going to be covering. Just general introductions we have already went through that. I open the public hearing; we are going to go through the background and the project objectives. We will also have the technical presentation; Sue Torelli is going to cover that. Jim Deloria are sub-consultant with R.K. Hite he is going to go over the property acquisition process. Then we will discuss next steps, then we will open the meeting up for public comment. Just a few housekeeping, I already kind of went through all this stuff as far as the what you need to do to speak. There are comment cards over there you will need to fill them out and return them to Ken. Then we will, will then call everyone up by name and you will have your opportunity to comment during the hearing portion. I already went through a lot of this stuff as far as I know it is a public hearing, the purpose of the meeting, general hearing procedure, all right. Background; so, how many people here were, did you attend any meetings or participate in the Aviation Road Corridor Study? Show of hands? All right good, so we can go home is everyone kind of on board with what is going on? So, that was done back in 2008 and the purpose was for the Town to develop a plan for what they want Aviation Road to become. A bunch of the improvements that were identified were accommodations for bicycles and pedestrians, traffic calming techniques, there were several intersection improvements. The Aviation Road, Dixon Road, Farr Lane intersection was one of those improvements. Based on future traffic projects, accident analysis, was identified that a roundabout would be a preferred alternative at this location. That was just part of the Corridor Study. After the Corridor Study was completed the Town applied to AGFTC which is the local transportation planning organization that receives applications and manages the federal program for the FHWA the monies that they give out for projects like this. AGFTC felt it was a worthwhile project they placed on what is called the transportation improvement program. So, in 2010 the Town had a project, and that brings us here today. The funding is as I mentioned is a combination of Federal Funding, and State and Local. The funding break down is approximately 80% Federal, 20% Local that is a combination of State and the Town. Because there are Federal monies involved we need to follow what is referred to as the need for processes, A National Environmental Protection Act. That process is pretty strict it requires that whenever you are undertaking a project like this with Federal dollars you need to evaluate all of the potential impacts that, that project will have on the environment. That includes historical resources, endangered species, you need to do detailed traffic evaluations as far as future growth. How heavy is the traffic going to be at a place where you are proposing an improvement. You need to evaluate accidents, what is the safety; there is a whole list of different things that need to be accounted for as part of this process. The intent is to make sure that you are building the right project and you are not just you know going out haphazardly doing whatever you want and forcing things. Project Objectives; these are really important because they help shape why you are doing a project. The first one at the top, improve traffic conditions and flow. Then we have improving the pedestrian and bicycle accommodations this is a carryover from the Corridor Study. It identified that the Town really wanted to improve the pedestrian multi-modal network along the corridor. We want to reduce accidents severity and then we also want to make an improvement that is consistent with the community vision. That community vision being what was documented in the Corridor Study. Now, I mentioned that under the Need For Process you need to evaluate different alternatives. Alternatives come it is basically a linking of all the items that you see up there, it is public comment, which is why we are here, why we are looking for feedback on things. It's working within stake holder objectives, there is a lot of stake holders in this area that includes the Town, the School, the local businesses, the residents, everyone that is close to that area. Previous studies as I mentioned, there was the Corridor Study that did a lot of the upfront work as far as working through what the vision should be and what should be and what should happen at this intersection. Lastly, Engineering Design Standards, we need to make sure that we are not creating anything unsafe and that you are following the standards prescribed by the Federal Government and the State. With that I will turn the microphone over to Sue Torelli and she will review the alternatives and go through that. Ms. Susan M. Torelli PE-If I put it on here are you going to be able to hear me? Can everyone hear me? Good so far. So as Steve said I will be walking you through the alternatives for the project. The three that we need to evaluate because we have to go through the NEPA Seqra Process we evaluate three alternatives being, one being the no build which sometimes we refer to it as the no alternative which is just doing nothing to the intersection. The second is a signal and the third being a roundabout. Those are the three that we had to look at in our design report as well. I am going to be going through existing conditions the alternatives we have some traffic models, some pretty pictures of cars driving. We will go through why we look at a roundabout and just a general discussion on roundabouts. Then we will look at the comparison of the alternatives. So, existing conditions; just the geometry if you are not familiar with the area. Aviation Road is the east west road going through and then Farr Lane to the north, Dixon to the south. Dixon comes in a skewed intersection right there I am sure everyone that has driven it knows it comes in that way. That is supposed to say land use. We have residential on this side of the intersection and then we have commercial on the right side. Pedestrian and Bicycles accommodations through the corridor as documented in the Corridor Study there are some intermittent sidewalks through the area you can see on the ariel that some of them are right in here. But some of the newer businesses that have moved in but they kind of just end and they don't connect into anything. So one of our goals is to have pedestrian accommodations through the entire intersection and connect into these existing sidewalks. There are no cross walks or pedestrian signals currently at the intersection. One of the reasons the upgrades to this area is important as far as pedestrian and bicycles go it is at the school is to the east and it is within .5 miles students are required to walk or they can walk and there is no bus pickup. So, they are walking through this intersection because it is .3 miles away from the school. Travel speed VS posted speed limits; when we do speed studies we look at what we call the 85th percentiles speed and we look at how fast the cars are going and 85% of them are going the speed and that is our design speed or our travel speed. When we took a look at that, Aviation Road which is posted at 35 miles an hour has speeds that are closer to forty. Farr which is signed at 30 and Dixon which is signed at 40 both are pretty consistent with that posted speed limit. So, cars on Farr are going around 30 and 40 on Dixon. If you have traveled through the area when you come up on Dixon PM, peak hour, so in the afternoon cars will back up on this right here just because of the volume and they cannot get out through the intersection, When we look at the delay it comes out to be about twenty seconds per car. Which when we talk about level of service it is kind of like when go to school you had like the grade A through F. So, that is how we do level of service. A is good and F is bad. So, the intersection today the Dixon leg is actually a D. So, if we are talking about the no alternative where we just leave it as is we look out another twenty years that would be an E out at that, it would be like 50 seconds of delay instead of 25. The accidents at the intersection because Dixon Road comes in at an angle, we looked at three year period from 2009 to 2011, and we had ten accidents at the intersection. Which when we took a look at that compared to the State wide average which this isn't a State road but since there is no Town equivalent we compare it to the State wide average and it ended up being about 3.5 times that. So, it is pretty high. Again one of those reasons is this skew that exists, so it is about a 25 degree angle and when you pull up to the intersection looking right and left is pretty difficult. Also it is kind of hard to judge the gap to get out into traffic to take that left hand turn. Another thing that is kind of confusing because of this angle is that when you are on Dixon Road and you take a left or if on Farr and you take a left those paths actually overlap. So, normally when you are at an intersection, two cars can take a left at the same time in front of each other, where because of this skew it kind of becomes confusing and you do not know who gets the right of way because your paths overlap. So, moving off the alternatives: One of the alternatives is the signal options, this is our first alternative we are going to install a new traffic signal and another this Dixon corner right here, one of the reasons we have to, if you look at it kind of pulls the intersection to the east, one of the reasons we need to do that was because the actual turning movement I will go back to this slide. When you make this movement around the corner, when you look at it it is only a car that can make it. So, there are no trucks none of the busses can make this, none of the school busses can make this movement. There are actually on the sidewalk we can see if you are out there it actually you can see the tire marks going over the sidewalks of cars actually making that turn. On the next slide one of the things that we tried to improve was that turning movement. So, by shifting the intersection in that direction you are able to make this turn easier. So, right now in this design a city bus can make that. So, all your school busses and your city busses can make that movement to their right. Farr because Dixon was moved over toward the east Farr also has to pull over towards that to line up with it. Again, one of the reasons we need to line it up is so when you are talking a left and you are taking a left those paths don't cross. We also widened along Aviation so you will see we have these turn lanes that we have put in ok, and when we add an extra lane in the middle it chases back that reconstruction as you are widening out the road. So, what will it cost for this intersection is 1.5 million. Our second alternative is the roundabout and this is a single lane roundabout so it is not like the one in Glens Falls, the center of Glens Falls that has more lanes and it is not like the Malta ones where they have multiple lanes. So, a single lane roundabout is actually easier to navigate if you are unfamiliar with roundabouts. Again, we have that same intersection kind of shifting towards the east, because again we needed to fix this corner and a city bus can make this turn. One of the things with a roundabout that we can accommodate that you can't with a signal is that when you have a larger vehicle like a tractor trailer come into the intersection with the signal the tractor trailer can't make the right with the roundabout option when tractor trailer comes in, they can't make the immediate right but they can go all the way around the roundabout and then exit to the right. So, this would accommodate that larger vehicle. Pedestrian accommodations; We have sidewalks at all the approaches and we tie into these existing ones. So, we have all sidewalks on all sides in here. Something that I did not mention on the signal one, while we did have sidewalks in the east and cross walks on the west side of the intersection, pedestrians would be accommodated on the shoulder. One of the things we can do with this roundabout is when you are going through this intersection, normally in general roundabout speeds are lower but another thing we are introducing in this in design is that we have what we call advanced deflection. That is when you are coming into the roundabout it kind of kicks you over before you come back and that forces the cars to slow down. So, Aviation being our higher speeds in the 40's when they approach the intersection they will slowed down by this advanced deflection before get in there. So, it is a little bit more of a traffic calming feature as well. Our total for this is 1.4 million. So, how does this affect the landowners? This is our alternative one and we have sheeted in the blue areas of impacts. Because of this widening through this area there is a little bit more strip taking acquisitions through here so it affects more property owners. So total property owners are seven and approximate area is about .46 acres. For alternative two, because we do not have that widening on the west side of Aviation it is only four property owners that are affected and .38 acres. This is our signal traffic model and you will see when I play it. So as it runs this is a red light you will see the red flag and then there is a green one right here so the green flag is turning to yellow and it is red now for Aviation. Dixon and Farr run at the same time, there is a pedestrian crossing. So, as you can see it runs pretty well there is not significant backups in any of the directions. For our roundabout option, so at a similar time period as the signal similar amount or volume of cars, again you can see it works pretty well. There are not significant backups in any of the directions. There is a pedestrian that crosses eventually. You all like the pretty pictures. So, just roundabouts in general why do we look at roundabouts? What are the advantages of roundabouts? High capacity, low delay right, so they let a lot more cars through the same intersection with less overall delay. Benefits for all modes of traffic, pedestrian, bicycles, vehicular. Flexible for unusual conditions, in our case it helps with that skew from Dixon. Ecstatic's gateway possibilities, this is kind of a transitional intersection between the residential areas and getting into that little commercial corridor with the market so has the potential to be like a gateway intersection. Environmental benefits, less delay, less cars sitting idling, air pollution, less air pollution. These roundabouts are one of the safest types of intersections they have that traffic calming and speed reduction and in our case with that advance deflection even additional speed reduction. Studies show that 45% reduction in pedestrian accidents. They also eliminate the high speed high angle collusions. So, what I mean by that is that tee bone. Some when somebody runs a red light and another car you get that really serious accident to-bone. So, what a roundabout does is it actually gets rid of that conflict point all together. So, this is a great slide to show that, what it basically shows is all these little dots on here are all spots where there is a potential for having collusion. Ok. So, you see all the vehicles and all the pedestrians. So, when you move over to the roundabout there is sixteen vehicle conflicts and sixteen vehicle pedestrian conflicts at a signal when you move over to a roundabout that decreases to four and eight. So, it eliminates the potential of all those accidents. So, not only does it decrease the potential of the accident but when there is an accident because of the slower speeds if it is a pedestrian accident just reducing from a 40 mile per hour down to 20 miles per hour is a significant drop in whether that crash is going to be a fatality. So, just to compare our alternatives the traffic signal and the roundabout if you look at the first part of this table above this black line I mean it is pretty comparable the acreage the property owners overall level of service. The signal works the roundabout works great, they both have pedestrian and bicycle improvements. Cost wise they are very similar, when we get down into this lower part where we talk about things like traffic calming. If there is a green light on Aviation somebody could still go through there at 40 miles an hour, 45 miles per hour through that light whereas with a roundabout they have to slow down going through that intersection there is no green light to go all the way through. It meets the community corridor vision from the corridor study. Roundabout was what was identified as the preferred alternative. Safety improvements while they both do have some safety benefits the roundabout as we saw has significant amount more of safety. So, the roundabout because of all these reasons in addition to all these other factors that it improves was identified as the preferred alternative. So, next steps, we get feedback from this meeting, we finalize our design report-the summer of 2013 we are looking to get design approval and construction would not really start until next year. Looking at finishing it in one construction season so, if it starts in the spring it would be the fall. So, with that I am going to turn it over to Jim Deloria from R.K. Hite he is going to walk through the right of way acquisition process. Mr. Jim Deloria-I too am going follow the script. Again, I am Jim Deloria from R.K. Hite we are a subcontractor to Creighton Manning and our involvement with the project is the property rights, the property acquisition for the project. So, essentially there are four steps in the right of way acquisition process. An initial meeting with each property owner, the real property appraisal, establishing just compensation and negotiating a settlement and transfer of title to the Town . Our primary goal through the process is to negotiate a fair settlement with each property owner. So, the first step in the process is a preliminary meeting with one of our property rights specialist, that is me. I will contact you and schedule a convenient time to meet at your property. At this time I will provide you with information about the acquisition process and an explanation of the proposed impact to your property. We will also inspect the property and gather preliminary information. The person you meet with will also handle your negotiations. We think it is important for you to have one person you can contact if you have any questions. The next step in the process is the real property appraisal. The appraisal will be used to determine the fair market value for the property rights to be acquired. The appraiser will first research and analyze the real estate market in this area, comparable sales status and other market information will be reviewed. Next the appraiser will inspect each property site specific information will be gathered at that time. You will be given the opportunity to accompany the appraiser during the visit, you should take advantage of this offer. No one knows the property better than you do. Finally the appraiser will prepare a report the report will document his or her findings and state the fair market value of the property rights to be acquired. Just compensation is the price the town must pay to acquire your property. The town will establish an amount it believes to be just compensation. This amount will not be less than the highest approved fair market value for your property. As stated previously the fair market value is determined during the appraisal phase. We try to offer an amount that reflects a price a willing buyer and a willing seller would agree to in the open market. To avoid any possible confusion we are going to prepare a written offer for each property. The offer will include a statement of just compensation amount the basis for the just compensation amount and the description of the property and the interest to be acquired. We will contact each property owner and schedule a convenient time to meet. At this meeting the negotiator will deliver and review the written offer. I would like to stress one point while we use the word negotiator we are in fact work under what is called a one offer system. We are required by law to offer you the full amount of highest approved appraisal. So, unless there are any compelling reasons to raise the offer we will stand by the one offer amount. Once you have accepted the offer we will prepare the necessary papers and schedule a closing. The closing is similar to other real estate transactions you may have been involved in. I would quickly summarize the process we will use to acquire real property on this project. First we will meet with each property owner to provide information on the project and potential impacts to your property. Next we will appraise the property to determine the fair market value. Fair Market value, will be used by the Town to establish just compensation. Once the Town has established just compensation we will prepare and deliver a written offer to each affected property owner. We understand that the right of way process may be new to you I would like to show you that we will try our best to make it as easy as possible for you. The Town will make every effort to acquire the property by negotiations. That concludes my presentation, if you have any questions I will be available after the meeting. Steve Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-Back to the script, bear with me. This concludes the technical portion of the public hearing. An important aspect of the public hearing process is receiving comments from the general public regarding the project. At this time I would like to open the floor for public comment. I would like to call to your attention of the fact there is a required format for this public hearing does not allow us to respond to questions or statements at this time. However, all the statements and comments received will be considered in the preparation and determination and findings. Ken has all the cards who wish to comment this evening. When I call your name please come to the podium and state your name and address for the record. As necessary the Town will provide written responses to comments received tonight. Debbie Collins, 16 Fox Farm Road Ms. Debbie Collins, 16 Fox Farm Road - First of all I would like to thank the Town of Queensbury for I hope they are going to use the roundabout like our New England neighbors do there I find them sufficient. A couple of questions I do not know if you can answer questions is this the first of many improvements for Aviation Road I particularly am interested in seeing more sidewalks down Aviation Road. Yes. Ok. So, those were my two comments, I am in favor of a roundabout use Aviation Road every day especially in the early morning. Thank you. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-June Talley, 13 Pinewood Road Avenue Ms. June Talley-Pinewood Avenue, yes. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E. —Sorry Ms. June Talley-I am glad to hear that something is finally being done. This winter after the first snowstorm, can you hear me? Not very well? Can you hear me now? Ok. After the first snowstorm there was a pile by the side by Farr Road my son and I were coming out Aviation Road going toward Pinewood out of the clear blue from Dixon Road a truck it wasn't a town vehicle or anything but a private truck with a big plow on the front came zipping right across the street. We had to swerve luckily to get out of his way. But, that is why I want something done. The other question, the question I have is what alternative routes can we take for those of us that live out Pinewood Avenue out toward West Mountain all the people come in Potter Road, where do we go when this is being constructed for that period? How do we get into town? Deputy Supervisor Strough-That is a good question June but the responses are going to be published or are we going to have another hearing? Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E. — They will be published. Deputy Supervisor Strough-So, I will make sure you will get a copy of the published hearing. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-I should note that we will also be available once the public hearing is closed we will be available over at the board, the design team will to answer any other questions that you have. Ms. June Talley-Thank you. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-Last I have Betty Jane Preston Ms. Betty Jane Preston-I live at Solomon Heights and I know it is really hard to get out there on Aviation Road no matter which way you are going. You can go up to Fox Hollow or down to Manor Drive or no matter which way you try to go I have tried them all, it is very difficult to get out there sometimes ten minutes. You have got to pick your time. Since I am older I have tried to picking the times so it is not when the folks are going to work or when the school is evacuating or coming. So, but it would be wonderful if we finally get, before our life time is over if we get a roundabout or a light. I do not think a light would work very good but a roundabout sounds wonderful. Thank you. Deputy Supervisor Strough-Thank you. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-That is all the actually comment cards I have is there anybody else that would like to comment? We will just need you to fill out a quick card, if you have one, so we have it recorded that you did speak. Ms. Susan Torelli P.E.-Also you can send them in written too. So, up to ten days after this hearing you will be able to also write in your comments and mail them and they will also be included in the public record... Deputy Supervisor Strough-And some of you have e-mailed me and if you do not know my e-mail I will give it to you after the meeting and I forward comments for they are part of the public record. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P. E.- Pardon me if I butcher this, George Winston? Mr. George Winters-4 John Clendon Road I went to the in 2008 1 went down to, I forgot, whether it was Aviation Road School or Church but at that time they suggested closing Dixon Road off from Manor off so you could not go onto Aviation Road with it. All the little side streets you could cut out and go right you would be at a right angle to Aviation Road. I do not know whatever happened to that but that would not cost us hardly any money like is it Kingsley that had in the paper today he had the right ideal. Deputy Supervisor Strough-George when we did that Corridor Study we looked at all ideas and we did not put a value on any of them we wanted to look at all potential possibilities as part of the Corridor Study. Yes. That was mentioned. But when you consider the impacts as it currently does a lot of people trying to avoid this intersection take Burke Drive, Cottage Hill, Prospect, Midnight, Poplar, ok and those are residential streets. What you want to do is try and relieve the burden and the public safety factor of cars going down those residential streets. In other words why are they doing it now, to avoid this intersection? Once this intersection is remediated it would make those streets safer and more residential in feel. So, the people that live on Burke Drive, Cottage Hill, Prospect, Midnight and Poplar would love to see this intersection done. Mr. George Winters-I do not know if there has been any complaints or anything, is this the final decision now? Deputy Supervisor Strough-No. Mr. George Winters-Because tonight all I hear tonight so far is people that want it, I am sure that there are plenty of people that don't want it. In fact at the 2008 they discouraged that and said just don't spend all that money, close Dixon Road off so you cannot go onto Dixon Road. Deputy Supervisor Strough-George that was a minority opinion. Mr. George Winters-I believe that was the right thing to do. Deputy Supervisor Strough-Ok. Thank you. Mr. George Winters-Thank you. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.- Janet McMillen Ms. Janet McMillen-Well I have had a lot of my questions answered tonight so I am just going to put my two cents in here and I would like to say that a traffic circle would be much better than a light. Anyone who that travels Aviation Road regularly knows that there are times when the light by the school hinders the flow of traffic rather than expediting it. I have traveled past the school on Saturdays late on Sundays or even late any night ten, eleven, whatever, coming home from a trip somewhere and although there are no cars anywhere you still have to stop at that light, very often you get caught by it. Frequently when coming out of the church or the school side roads the traffic on Aviation is so light that there is no problem getting out without a light. I understand that, that is not the case when school, when school and church is letting out. But, my point is this, that I would hate to see another light on Aviation Road especially because I understand it's expensive to have them adjusted or changed to suit traffic because that is what I am told about that school light. I guess smart lights are not cheap either. Although I think they would probably be a great idea there because when there is no cars coming they do not turn so you would be stuck there by yourself waiting for a light to turn. I guess I would prefer a traffic circle for a few reasons. As in Glens Falls at the circle the traffic isn't always heavy and even when it is the circle keeps the flow of traffic moving and I think that, that is the important part. The intersection at Farr Lane and Dixon as two roads well I see already that do not meet accurately so it would be necessarily, probably, I think to re-work those roads a bit whether there is a light or a circle. So, putting a light there would not eliminate any road construction so they are equal on that level. If the cost of a light is more than a circle why would we go with the light, especially when a circle would be less disruptive to the flow of traffic, that is my opinion. So, it seems when it, when a road has traffic congestion that varies so greatly as, at different times of the day or night as in the case with Aviation Road it makes more sense to go with the circle rather than a light because then you are not sitting there for no reason when there is nobody coming against you. I would like to thank you all for your, you know good presentations. I just, my one concern is I do not know why it is so expensive? One point five million seems, I understand that If you have to buy you know eminent domain, if you have to take people's property that adds to the cost but are we sure that this is the cheapest deal we can get. I mean it just seems like a lot of money for a traffic circle, or roundabout as they say here. I just think that, that would be definitely the better of the two options because the other light is horrendous in the morning when you try to get to work and you, and the schools are open and it backs up, sometimes it backs up to Potter Road which is crazy. So, to me that light does not really work because you have a guy out there stopping everybody on Aviation Road and letting all the parents out from the school and so the whole of Aviation Road backs up and those parents are just dropping the kids off because for some reason they cannot take the school bus. So, I do not think that light it really, I do not think the light is working the way it should and I think a roundabout would be much better. Deputy Supervisor Strough-Thank you Janet and you can ask the traffic expert about the cost and it is a good question. Ms. Janet McMillen-Ok. Thank you. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-Next is Richard Winters 311 Aviation Road Mr. Richard Winters-Hi my name is Richard Winters and I have lived on this intersection for the last fifty years and I have seen everything and the only time I really notice any traffic is in the morning but the biggest problem right there at that intersection is the school. They have got to do something with the school to get their traffic off the Aviation Road. Everything they have done down to the school to me is a farce. Even the parking lot there is absolutely ridiculous. The cost of this is really unreal for just one little intersection. I tell you have lived there for fifty years and have never had too many problems getting down Aviation Road only in the morning when school is getting, they built all that stuff down there and it doesn't do nothing. So, thank you. Deputy Supervisor Strough-Thank you Richard. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-Jackie Devlin, 4 Sherwood Drive Ms. Jackie Devlin-I have got my badge on so you all know who I am I square dance, to answer your question about the light in front of the school Deputy Supervisor Strough-Mrs. Devlin Town Clerk Dougher-You have got to use the mic. Sr. Planner Baker-Could you use the microphone please. Deputy Supervisor Stec-No, it has to be recorded. Ms. Devlin-I am on stage. To answer your question about the light in front of the Elementary School and the Church on Aviation Road, I talked to Ron Montesi yesterday and that light was supposed to be controlled by the School. As a matter of fact when it was first put up it was supposed to be on caution blinking on Aviation Road when school was on session. Of course that is not happening and that is why we have the back up at that intersection on Aviation Road. So, that is probably something that should be discussed with the Queensbury School District. That is it I guess. Deputy Supervisor Stec-Thank you Jackie. Mr. Stephan Godlewski P.E.-That is all the comments cards we have is there anybody else, we do not want to leave anybody out. Dick Batchelder, 10 Centennial Drive Mr. Dick Batchelder-Dick Batchelder, 10 Centennial Drive I have lived there about forty or forty one years and I drive that road quite a bit as you can imagine in that period of time. The last speaker up here talked about that light being the problem down in front of Queensbury School, it is yes. But, I think there is something else that is even more of a problem. They have a crossing guard that lets traffic out of the parking lot in the morning. That traffic that goes in there in the morning are a bunch of parents that drive their kids to school. We provide school busses you watch the busses coming in and out of the Queensbury High School and sometimes they are half empty or more. If these kids would ride the busses and the parents didn't drop them off in front of the school and we did not have to have a crossing guard letting these parents out I understand if they came out of there if there wasn't somebody there to let them out they would never get out probably in the morning. But, if we could eliminate them coming out of that place probably the traffic flow up and down Aviation road would be a lot easier than it is. Because, yes, it is horrendous for about half three quarters of an hour in the morning. I am not sure of the exact times but it is something like seven fifteen to eight o'clock, if you are on Aviation Road, somebody said it is backed up somewhere sometimes out to Potter, and sometimes it is and it is even beyond that. But, part of the problem is I do not know if this is legal it must be because this guard has been letting the people out of that parking lot, fifty parents drop their kids off he stands out there after a while stops the Aviation Road traffic and he lets parents, twenty, twenty five, thirty cars out and that backs everything up Aviation Road. I do not know who designed this wonderful traffic flow around the school but they need another job. Mr. Stephen Godlewski P.E.-Thank you Any other comments, would anyone else like to speak? I will now adjourn the public hearing I would like to thank everyone for coming out this evening, written comments, questions, documents will be accepted by the Town until the close of business on February 23rd. 2013. Please submit your written statements to the attention of Stuart Baker at the Town of Queensbury, 742 Bay Road Queensbury, N.Y. 12804. These written statements will be incorporated into the hearing record, I now adjourn this meeting. Deputy Supervisor Strough-Thank you everybody for coming. Creighton Manning is going to be here to take in any questions you may have. Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury